Patterico's Pontifications

McCain was a bigger mistake

quasimodo (47ad5b) — 7/29/2012 @ 4:37 pm

I was just about to type “McCain was the mistake”. quasimodo beat me to it. If not for Sarah Palin, McCain would have lost by a much bigger margin.

nk (875f57) — 7/29/2012 @ 4:41 pm

Palin had more experience as a government executive that McCain, Obama & Biden combined. If she was a mistake, how about those three?

Michael M. Keohane (4e9451) — 7/29/2012 @ 4:41 pm

HUGE HUGE HUGE Cheney fan here…but I disagree with him on this. Whatever the political pitfalls Palin brought to the table (or that the left manufactured), she was then, and she is today, better qualified to be in the WH than the current occupant.

IMHO.

RB (5d7f7b) — 7/29/2012 @ 4:43 pm

Like all political theories, it is untestable since we can’t go back and see what the race would have been like had McCain chosen someone else.

I tend to agree with nk, though; who could McCain have chosen that would have led him to victory against Teh God King?

Pious Agnostic (ee2c24) — 7/29/2012 @ 4:55 pm

I think he’s right that ideally a vice president should be ready to take over on day one if necessary, and that Palin was not. Nor were McCain, 0bama, or Biden; of the four, she was probably the readiest, but that’s not saying much. But I don’t agree with him that this is strictly necessary; I think if she’d found herself president on 20-Jan-2009 she’d have done a reasonable job, and a better one than McCain would have done. Still, I don’t think he was insulting her or being harsh; he just has high standards for the vice presidency.

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/29/2012 @ 4:55 pm

nk #2, and Pious Agnostic #5, what you say is true but irrelevant. The question was not whether McCain could have won with someone else; Cheney did not suggest in any way that he could have, or that Palin hurt his chances.

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/29/2012 @ 4:57 pm

Palin was the only good thing about the campaign.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/29/2012 @ 5:04 pm

Milhouse,

Oh, agreed. Cheney isn’t harsh, and his judgement is not to be discounted. And I guess you’re right, this shouldn’t be just about winning elections; it should be about selecting effective and qualified leaders for these positions.

It’s easy to lose sight of that.

Pious Agnostic (ee2c24) — 7/29/2012 @ 5:07 pm

Looking at senators as candidates, which one was not an assclown? Of course you had a worthless piece of camel dung who was those over-the-hill war heroes running in Dole and McCain. I agree that Palin was more qualified than the three bozos Urkel, Biden and McCain. How much help was McCain’s own staff in stabbing her in the back or reining her in? So just who does Cheney think would be the best VP choice now? More boring white men like Pawlenty and Porter?
Or God help us, Huckabee? Jindal has had loads of government and Rubio should help with the youth and Latino votes or the gov. of NJ seems like a fighter.

Calypso Louis Farrakhan (e799d8) — 7/29/2012 @ 5:08 pm

Dittos. My initial reactions do not differ from those already expressed by 1-5 & 8. I respect Dick Cheney, but he should pipe down on Palin.

ropelight (a0804f) — 7/29/2012 @ 5:08 pm

Dick Cheney is one of our most intelligent leaders… has been one for decades now. The last go-’round was a perfect storm for the Democrats… not saying it should have been, as there were many cooks that spoiled the financial system. It wouldn’t have mattered who McCain selected.

I must say I had much more respect for Palin back then than I do now. I take issue with her attempts at king-making, much the same as I find fault with what Michelle Malkin too often does. I still agree with her more often than not, but she should pay more attention to the old canard, “familiarity breeds contempt”… she’s way over-exposed.

Colonel Haiku (6a2396) — 7/29/2012 @ 5:20 pm

McCain was a monstrous mistake, eh wot?

ustuplay (ba23a7) — 7/29/2012 @ 5:28 pm

Yes, McCain was a monstrous mistake but Obama has proven to be a worse one.

Pious Agnostic (ee2c24) — 7/29/2012 @ 5:29 pm

Cheney and Lieberman should have been at the top of their respective tickets in 2000. He had a good reason for what he said about Palin but I still think she was better qualified than Obama or Clinton. I’m glad he looks so good with his new heart. I was afraid for a while that he was going to defer it and check out.

Mike K (4c76c8) — 7/29/2012 @ 5:35 pm

Dear Patterico,

Selecting Palin elevated not only my view of the ticket, but also my view of McCain. It was a politically savvy and confident choice. Let’s hope Romney shows similar confidence. I have no use for nominees who select wimpy running mates just so they won’t be upstaged.

Yours truly,

ThOR

ThOR (94646f) — 7/29/2012 @ 5:39 pm

There are many qualities that successful political candidates and leaders share. One is the ability to generate enthusiasm and garner votes. Another is the ability to lead a political party. And still another is the ability to govern. It appears Cheney is thinking only about the last element in his criticism of Palin, because she clearly generated a great deal of enthusiasm among conservatives and GOP Party faithful.

Specifically, Cheney said Palin was a poor pick because she was not ready to be President but she had more executive experience than McCain, Obama or Biden. What she didn’t have was experience on the national stage and apparently that’s how Cheney measures potential Presidents and Vice-Presidents. That’s not surprising given his extensive national political experience and limited state/local experience.

I disagree with Cheney and frankly I think he’s employing a double-standard. George W. Bush served 1-1/2 terms (6 years) as Texas Governor but lost his only other political election, a 1977 race for the House of Representatives. Palin served on the Wasilla City Council, as Mayor, on the Alaska Oil and Gas Commission, and 3/4 of her term (3 of 4 years) as Alaska Governor. She also ran for but lost a bid for Lt. Governor. If she’s not qualified, neither was Bush — and I know Cheney would never say that Bush wasn’t qualified.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/29/2012 @ 5:51 pm

I don’t think anyone is ready to step into the office on the day they’re sworn in. They may think and feel they are … but they’re not. Palin was not as ready as the rest of them, and perhaps more so than any of the others on the ballot.

My guess is that her candidacy didn’t turn the election the way Cheney expected, and thus it was a mistake — he doesn’t say it was her mistake.

htom (412a17) — 7/29/2012 @ 5:58 pm

I’d sure love it if Romney picked Cheney to be his VP, if only because of all the head exploding.

Palin was much more appealing than Mccain, but I agree she wasn’t quite ready. Readier than Biden or Mccain and of course Obama, and probably the only aspect of the 2008 election that I was enthusiastic about, but I would prefer someone who has been reelected as governor.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:00 pm

Will republicans ever get along? I respect both of them, but Dick should go fishing. And Palin should cook a moose.

mg (44de53) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:03 pm

Well, I think given those required credentials Cheney would have been aghast with Teddy Roosevelt as being the VP pick. But I think that turned out quite good. It looks like grit is needed more than going to just the right school and knowing all the right people.

dmandman (fa03cf) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:04 pm

Maybe if Palin hauled off and shot one of her hunting partners, Cheney would have a higher opinion of her.

Steve57 (d382ec) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:06 pm

I like Sarah Palin, and of course, I voted for the McCain/Palin ticket.
Had she not been picked in ’08, she would still be accruing a solid gubernatorial record that might have been a stepping stone to a national ticket some years down the road.

Part of her problem was that at that point in time, she was not yet prepared for the intense limelight of a national campaign. She’s a capable, smart person, but she was a young pitcher jumping from the minor leagues to being asked to pitch in the World Series.

The issue that Republicans have to “get,” is that there’s ALWAYS going to be two different standards for reporting on the candidates of the two parties.
Sometimes, the GOP establishment have amnesia about that sort of thing, because they’re often on friendly terms with unfriendly reporters. They think that just because Dana Milbank wishes them a ‘Happy Birthday,’ that it means Dana Milbank will be nice to them in print during the heat of a campaign.
Guess what, Senator McCain—it ain’t gonna happen, no matter how many friendly chats or jokes over drinks you have with these left wing media types.

A candidate with Barack Obama’s sketchy background or Joe Biden’s goofs & gaffes, can only be elected if they have a (D) after their name.

A couple weeks ago, another ~~political operative~~ Obama fan had a ~~staged~~ fainting spell at one of his mind-numbing speeches. He said on the open mic that the paralegals will give her some help.
It went largely unreported by the mainstream media. But can you imagine if Quayle, GW Bush, or Palin had said that the “paralegals” will give that person the proper medical attention ?

Anyhow, Palin was criminally put thru the shredder by a nasty dishonest left wing media, including the very nasty characterizations of her by Saturday Night Live, Dave Letterman, Jon Stewart, Bill Maher, as well as the guy with the goofy ears whose father was totally dysfunctional—~~Obama~~ Stephen Colbert.

Hindsight is always 20/20.
However, here’s the problem with the Palin pick…she was totally unfamiliar to everyone outside only the most die-hard political junkies. As a result, her unfamiliarity to voters allowed the left wing media and their sycophants to mold her public image out of clay.
And there wasn’t enough time to combat the nasty dishonest characterizations of her.
Those impressions are pretty much all that the “undecided” and “independent” and “moderate” voters had to go on.

Certainly, she had some missteps, as all candidates will have. But that’s the thing about choosing an unfamiliar VP candidate—that’s the first and sometimes ONLY impression that voters are left with for that 2 or 3 month time frame until Election Day.

Let’s rewind and look at Dick Cheney or Jack Kemp. They were familiar to people. There was archival footage of each of them performing excellently, in addition to years of press clippings, speeches, otes, experience as Cabinet members, et al.
If Kemp or Cheney had a misstep or “weak” interview with a Katie Couric, it wouldn’t have done much damage because people generally already knew the Kemp and Cheney brands.
Here’s the videotape of Kemp giving a speech about investing in the inner city where he’s quoting Hayek, Friedman, Laffer, et al.
Here’s the videotape of Cheney giving a briefing about the First Gulf War when he was Secretary of Defense.

On the other hand, the Couric interview, the snide potshots by Letterman, the SNL characterizations—those molded the Palin brand.

Elephant Stone (65d289) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:07 pm

I’m a big Cheney fan, and while I think he makes some valid points, I think his conclusion is wrong. Palin energized a lot of the GOP base that McCain had failed to interest. On net, I think the ticket did better than McCain would have with a more vanilla choice of VP.

SPQR (26be8b) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:13 pm

THIS IS PRECISELY WHY I NO LONGER CONSIDER MYSELF A REPUBLICAN!!!

Cheney is part of the elite establishment GOP and he will always back the elite establishment GOP. He may share some small part of the TEA Party’s values but THE ELITE ESTABLISHMENT GOP IS UTTERLY OPPOSED TO THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT!!!

This may shock and anger some Republicans but if you haven’t realized this glaringly obvious fact by now you probably never will…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:18 pm

I like your analysis, DRJ. Your contributions to this site are always worth reading.

Beauty plus an Iron Range accent was bound to get mocked in Manhattan. If there was a reason to be against her for VP THAT was it, not her unreadiness to be President. Nobody is remotely ready, nor can anybody be. It’s a conceit of the political class that there’s a certain resume that lends itself to great Presidents, when the best and the brightest in this country spend their lives entirely outside of politics. Cheney isn’t throwing in with the Republican establishment (as I was thinking earlier), he’s thrown in with the Establishment. He’s protecting his own – the government intellectual class (even as this same class hates him) – at the expense of Republican chances in November.

East Bay Jay (a5dac7) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:19 pm

Plainly McVain’s campaign, his personnel, Schmidt, MacKinnon, Wallace, were moles and submarined a comparative campaign ingenue in Palin.`

However, she’d already proven herself as an executive.

Cheney’s argument fails even on consideration of himself. No substantive executive experience, health alone disqualified him.

Obviously he’s playing an angle and that is stick with the GOP regulars, they’re professionals.

Keep it up boys, you can still lose this thing if you really put you minds to it.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:30 pm

The GOP had my vote for over 24 years. I went to the polls and pulled the lever for them, no matter what.

In 2000 I realized George W. Bush and Dick Cheney didn’t really seem to hold many of the core convictions that I did as a conservative.

By 2004 I realized that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney were big-spending Republicans absolutely opposed to limited government. I almost voted 3rd party in 2004 but I bought the LoTE argument one final time.

BY 2008, I DAMN WELL KNEW THAT JOHN MCCAIN DIDN’T BELIEVE VIRTUALLY ANYTHING I BELIEVED IN.

When the GOP nominates an actual conservative, I’ll consider voting for the GOP again. Until then, I’ll vote for an actual conservative.

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:34 pm

As some may already know I detest Barky as a lifeform.

Still there is no way I will vote for same old same old, especially against the weakest incumbent conceivable.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:36 pm

4 more years of EPIC FAIL? With friends like these, who needs enemies?

Colonel Haiku (6a2396) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:43 pm

I agree that the biggest problem in picking Palin in 2008 was that she was not ready to face the rabid dog pack and the McCain crowd didn’t seem to be able or interested in helping much. Just think if she was in her second term as governor now with that 80% approval rating.

I’m not sure what to do with the idea that she was not ready to step into the presidency, but that she was still the most ready of the 4.

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:54 pm

At this point, I fully expect Romney to nominate a milquetoast, left-wing Republican who will drive away wavering conservatives in droves.

You can bet the VP won’t be Santorum, Palin, Gingrich, Perry, Cain, or Bachmann.

We are probably going to see someone much more like Huntsman, Pawlenty or Thad McCotter.

Hold on while the bloody GOP runs to lose again!

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:54 pm

30. If you’re worried about winning without the conservatives, why was that your game plan all along?

Bamster blames Boosh, the GOP blames the wingnuts, and everone blames the Jooos.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:57 pm

“I agree that the biggest problem in picking Palin in 2008 was that she was not ready to face the rabid dog pack and the McCain crowd didn’t seem to be able or interested in helping much.”

Helping much? The McCain campaign seemed to be leading the attack on Sarah much of the time! These people were self-destructive morons!

Bob Dole ran a better campaign than John McCain!

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:57 pm

Comment by WarEagle82 — 7/29/2012 @ 6:57 pm

On occasion I act sort of British and understate things, but I agree.

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 7/29/2012 @ 6:59 pm

Hey, somebody is impersonating me. Comment 35 is not from the REAL WAREAGLE82!

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/29/2012 @ 7:00 pm

At the least, Palin being part of a national campaign and viciously savaged by the media like none before her, used the experience to eventually build her up to the kingmaker she is today. There is no other in the TP or the GOP that holds such a unique place of influence. And she essentially carved out that position by herself and for herself.

The hate seemed to buoy her determination to push through, overcome and be the conduit between Conservatives and the Tea Party and work toward unifying them.

Someone without the charisma and understanding of power and how to effectively wield it would have not had the success she had. So, while Cheney saw her selection as a mistake, I believe it’s a moot point. The fact is, there is no one on the current political stage – not even the lightworker himself – who can draw the masses and stoke the fires of fight like Palin. Where a mere mortal would have been crushed in defeat by her experience on the national stage, one Alaskan babe delightfully defied our betters’ predictions about her.

Dana (292dcf) — 7/29/2012 @ 7:04 pm

A sockpuppet in this thread?

SPQR (26be8b) — 7/29/2012 @ 7:06 pm

I doubt we will ever know how many potential VP candidates turned McCain down before he offered it to Sarah. Frankly does anyone even remember who all were in the running for the VP nod in 2008? By the convention it was already clear that McCain was not clicking with the electorate and it was obvious how the Obama brand was being marketed to the masses as an historic post racial post partisan Savior. Add to that the reality that the nation, including many Repubs, were sick of Bush and his type of Republican. McCain’s was a doomed candidacy from nearly the get go regardless of the VP pick, IMO.

elissa (66dc4a) — 7/29/2012 @ 7:12 pm

dear mr. WarEagle82

if you look at #35 again, you will see that i was addressing you and your comment, not trying to pretend to be you. sorry for the confusion.

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 7/29/2012 @ 7:15 pm

I thought Palin was a shrewd move, the best McCain could do. I think that Romney might pick a MORE conservative veep and it makes me sad. I wonder if a moderate governor or mayor couldn’t help.

carlitos (49ef9f) — 7/29/2012 @ 7:17 pm

Colonel Haiku,

It’s amazing, isn’t it ?

There are utopians on our side of the political spectrum. Unfortunately, they often are more theory-based, than reality-oriented.

An election will only result in an electorate being governed by one of the candidates whose name actually appears on the ballot. We don’t get to elect Hayek, or Burke, or Coolidge, or Goldwater. We have to go with the best available option on the ballot.

It may be difficult for some people to accept, but come January 20, either Mitt Romney or Barack Obama will be sworn in as the next President. It’s either or.

It’s not gonna be Edmund Burke. It’s not gonna be Gary Johnson.

I mean, on a daily basis, we all bite the bullet and “sacrifice” our most pristine “principles” when choosing the best available option, rather than only accepting the “perfect” option…whether it’s a job, a car, a house, a date, a show on TV, a choice of ice cream, a radio station, or even a route in attempting to avoid traffic jams, et al.

I guess some people just aren’t all that fearful of Obama choosing a couple more Supreme Court justices in the mold of Sotomayor and Kagan.

Elephant Stone (65d289) — 7/29/2012 @ 7:22 pm

32, 41. Willard’s most signal pattern of behavior is he does not take an unnecessary risk.

It would take an Allen West tab to match McLame’s pick of Palin for stunning, out of character genius.

Bet that motivation has never entered his head, at least not since Prep school.

With Urkel faceplanting daily a chance at gaining votes on the Right is out of the question. His crowd doesn’t like sweaty knuckledraggers, won’t be seen with them or countenance owing them a thing.

I’m with WarEagle.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/29/2012 @ 7:28 pm

@ WarEagle82,

Hold on while the bloody GOP runs to lose again!

I’m so afraid you’re correct on this. I’m braced for disappointment. Also, don’t forget the Portman possibility for veep.

Dana (292dcf) — 7/29/2012 @ 7:39 pm

dear mr. WarEagle82

if you look at #35 again, you will see that i was addressing you and your comment, not trying to pretend to be you. sorry for the confusion.

Comment by MD in Philly — 7/29/2012 @ 7:15 pm

Calm down. Take a knee. All is well. The old WarEagle’s eyes aren’t as sharp as they used to be. I’m going to cancel that hunting trip tomorrow to be safe…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/29/2012 @ 7:51 pm

It’s that Purity Of Essence thing, elephant stones. Romney has said more than once that he will pick a conservative as his running mate. That may not be good enough for some.

A suggestion… let’s all use some of this energy to help turn out the vote. Let’s put our money, time and energy where our mouths are. President Barry “Gutsy Call” 0bama has the media and his fever swamp denizens on his side… let’s enjoin the rational voters to effect a real change.

Colonel Haiku (171f5f) — 7/29/2012 @ 7:56 pm

Cheney is a master politician and an old hand inside the Beltway, but I don’t think he is selling out to the Establishment. In fact, I’m not even sure he believes what he said about Palin. If he means it now, then why did he say in September 2008 that Palin would be an effective Vice President?

My guess is that Cheney is conveniently joining the chorus of Beltway elites so his daughter Liz can run for office with Establishment support and without alienating the Tea Party. In Texas, we call it having your cake and eating it, too.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:00 pm

Actually Liz was smarter than Cheney pere, if her tweet is any indication,

narciso (ee31f1) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:02 pm

That’s my point, narciso. He signals one way and Liz signals the other. They could be covering both sides.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:03 pm

Comment by DRJ — 7/29/2012 @ 8:00 pm

So we should all feel better if we know that Cheney is just a bald-faced liar, taking a cheep-shot at Palin to further the interests of his daughter down the road?

I think I have had enough of that from the GOP, thank you…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:08 pm

the gatling guns were lined in a circle this week;

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-sunday-panel-criticizes-romneys-comments-on-london-olympics/

narciso (ee31f1) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:10 pm

WarEagle, gary gulrud,

I’m sure Obama is counting on your votes against Romney.

SPQR (26be8b) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:11 pm

So the solution to left-wing socialists Democrats in the White House is to vote for left-wing socialist Republicans…

Excuse me, but if that is your solution, you need to rethink your position, Elephant Stone…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:12 pm

Wareagle, why so combative and defeatist at the same time?

Dustin (73fead) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:12 pm

42. We’ve been over this many times. It is manifestly not merely a stupid and futile gesture.

If no price is paid for my vote I must withold same or I will be ignored for the next several terms.

During Reagan’s second term the Federal government grew. Willard is no Reagan. We already know revenues are going to crash, the lame duck Congress will do nothing.

Willard intends to cut taxes, probably capital gains but will be obliged to pay for them. The US will be downgraded at least one notch, possibly two before he enters office.

You people who pulled for him the whole way are happy just to have the Manchurian gone. You want things to go back to 2006 and figure it can be done in one term. Who knows, maybe Willard will bow out with any success and pass the torch to his ‘ready to govern’ VP.

There is no hope whatever of “going back”. One way or another, with skill or without, Mitty will be managing decline. Courge is not in the quiver. May God help us.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:13 pm

Mitt Romney plus Mitch McConnell plus John Boehner does not equal a conservative paradigm shift in Washington, DC.

Three BIG GOVERNMENT REPUBLICANS are NOT going to pull a Reagan and rein in the Federal Government in 4 years or 8.

THE BEST THE US CAN HOPE FOR OVER THE NEXT 4 TO 8 YEARS IS OBAMA-LITE.

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:17 pm

o the solution to left-wing socialists Democrats in the White House is to vote for left-wing socialist Republicans…

Um, the solution to Obama is definitely Romney no matter how you define either of them. That’s obvious.

If you’re not on board then you are not serious about this country’s future.

We can have the next fight over which Republicans are conservative when the next primary rolls around. Big boys accept reality.

BTW, Texans: vote for Ted Cruz, July 31st, if you haven’t already.

A lot of these unrealistically irrational ‘true’ conservatives are just democrats being trolls.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:20 pm

52. In 1996 49% of the electorate turned out for Slick/Dole/Perot. A resurgent Slick won with 49%.

Saying “if you are not for us, you’re against Amerikkka” is a bit slimy even for a lawyer.

I don’t think anyone can say I didn’t give averting this circumstance my best effort.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:21 pm

What a couple of g00fs…

Colonel Haiku (171f5f) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:21 pm

Cheney and Lieberman should have been at the top of their respective tickets in 2000.

Amen. That was what I said when I watched their debate.

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:23 pm

Take a Motrin and the couch, gary, ya gots teh vapors…

Colonel Haiku (171f5f) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:23 pm

57. GFY, Dusty, self-righteousness is lame.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:25 pm

And a lot of these LoTE Republicans are people who don’t realize they are selling their children and grandchildren down the river by voting for socialists because the put a “-R” behind there name while standing up on TV proclaiming they are really progressives. This isn’t the only or even the best example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMcjJEXt9To

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:25 pm

I am a huge Palin fan because she, unlike most Republicans, actually followed through on her conservative principles more than the typical GOP electee, who gives lip service to fiscal wisdom but abandons it under pressure. But Cheney is correct that Palin was NOT ready on Day One. I didn’t think so when her name was bandied about, but was delighted when she was chosen rather than someone with ZERO executive experience (making her more qualified than the over hyped half-term Senator). Palin was the best choice possible of a process that was bungled from the get-go by McCain, who was ready and willing to nominate his “good friend” Joe Lieberman, the losing VP candidate eight years previous (thanks, Steve Schmuck — er, Schmidt). IMHO choosing Palin may have saved the GOP from going the way of the Whigs; if there was a perception that there was no place for authentic conservatives in the Republican party any longer, the revolt that became the Tea Party movement may have become a full-fledged third party by now.

Cheney seems to forget that he only became a VP candidate because George W. Bush rejected all the candidates he asked Cheney to assess — they had to use former Texas congressman Cheney’s status as a land owner in Wyoming to get around requirements that a running mate not be from the same state.

L.N. Smithee (ce1f71) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:28 pm

“32, 41. Willard’s most signal pattern of behavior is he does not take an unnecessary risk.”

gary – That’s why he made his money in the private equity business, right?

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:29 pm

This election will not be decided by the fringe.

Colonel Haiku (171f5f) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:29 pm

GFY, Dusty, self-righteousness is lame.

Comment by gary gulrud

I wasn’t talking about you, gary.

But the truth is, the solution to Obama is Romney. It’s not like I wanted to nominate him, but Romney will be a massive improvement and I’m excited to be rid of Obama.

The truth is that mobies are going to follow this script where they combine defeatist rhetoric with a Steve Colbert level understanding of conservatives.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:30 pm

OH, and if you’re not on board, Gary, then you are not serious about this country’s future. We cannot wait through another four years of Obama. That is too high a price to pay for the quixotic quest to teach the GOP something. It would probably be too high a price if that quest weren’t impossible.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:32 pm

It will be decided by the folks who tune in the last week, that’s why W went from a lead to a tie in 2000, because of the DUI, Kerry lost in part because he was perceived as UBL’s pick, etc, etc.

narciso (ee31f1) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:33 pm

well, dang that promise….

EPWJ (b3df72) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:34 pm

LOL, Eric.

You’ve been a man of your word as far as that goes.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:35 pm

“We’ve been over this many times. It is manifestly not merely a stupid and futile gesture.”

gary – Yes we have. It is a demonstrably weapons grade dumb and useless gesture.

Are people in Minnesota or Washington holding their breath waiting to see how the Bemidji Butthead votes? Seriously?

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:35 pm

I don’t think anybody is trying to “teach” the GOP anything. I am fairly sure it can’t be done. I think we are waiting for it to slip into obscurity as it has now slipped into irrelevance. The sooner the better as we can replace the elitist, establishment GOP with actual conservatives…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:36 pm

A couple weeks ago, another ~~political operative~~ Obama fan had a ~~staged~~ fainting spell at one of his mind-numbing speeches. He said on the open mic that the paralegals will give her some help.
It went largely unreported by the mainstream media. But can you imagine if Quayle, GW Bush, or Palin had said that the “paralegals” will give that person the proper medical attention ?

Nah, he caught himself, so it’s all OK. Even Quayle, Bush, or Palin, would have been given a pass if they corrected themselves that quickly. I think.

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:37 pm

I’m a big Cheney fan, and while I think he makes some valid points, I think his conclusion is wrong. Palin energized a lot of the GOP base that McCain had failed to interest. On net, I think the ticket did better than McCain would have with a more vanilla choice of VP.

I don’t think Cheney disagrees with that. But it’s completely irrelevant to his point.

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:39 pm

Cheney is part of the elite establishment GOP and he will always back the elite establishment GOP.

Huh? In what way is he elite establishment? His background is pretty similar to Palin’s.

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:40 pm

The fact is, there is no one on the current political stage – not even the lightworker himself – who can draw the masses and stoke the fires of fight like Palin. Where a mere mortal would have been crushed in defeat by her experience on the national stage, one Alaskan babe delightfully defied our betters’ predictions about her.

So why didn’t she run? I was all fired up to vote for her.

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:48 pm

Huh? In what way is he elite establishment? His background is pretty similar to Palin’s.

Comment by Milhouse — 7/29/2012 @ 8:40 pm

And now we have descended into parody. Dick Cheney’s background IS NOTHING LIKE Sarah Palin’s background.

You have just launched into fantasy land…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:49 pm

The sooner the better as we can replace the elitist, establishment GOP with actual conservatives…

Comment by WarEagle82

Sorry, the GOP = whoever shows up to vote GOP. If conservatives (not you, a liberal) fail to show up, the GOP is effectively much more liberal.

We can have the next primary in 2016. The GOP has made a lot of great strides since 2008. No conservative was strong enough in 2011 to compete with Romney, a very strong politician in many respects. That’s a shame. I had my heart set on someone with a balanced budget. But a large number of great politicians were elected in the 2010 surge, thanks largely to Obamacare, and that trend hasn’t abated. Give the GOP a few years, and these politicians will have matured and the cream will rise to the top.

The time to worry about this is the primaries. The general election is when adults face reality and mobies fight dishonestly because they don’t have the brains to handle a straight debate.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:52 pm

So why didn’t she run? I was all fired up to vote for her.

Comment by Milhouse

She probably realized she would have lost, and that loss would have done more damage to the long term issues. But maybe she plain didn’t want to jump back into hell.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:53 pm

So the solution to left-wing socialists Democrats in the White House is to vote for left-wing socialist Republicans…

Unfortunately, if you’re in a swing state then the answer is yes. Romney is our only hope. If you’re in a state where the result is a foregone conclusion, then by all means vote for Johnson or whomever you like; I’m seriously considering doing so myself. But if you’re in a swing state and you vote for anyone but Romney, you’re effectively voting for 0bama.

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:54 pm

“We must destroy the Republic to save the Republic!”

Give me a break. I am hoping even you aren’t stupid enough to believe that…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:56 pm

In 1996 49% of the electorate turned out for Slick/Dole/Perot. A resurgent Slick won with 49%.

And in 1996 I couldn’t see any reason to prefer Dole over Clinton, so I voted for Harry Browne, even though I already suspected he was a crook. Even in hindsight I don’t regret that vote; I see no reason to believe Dole would have been a better president then Clinton.

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:58 pm

Dustin, with all due respect, which evidently isn’t much, you are a moron.

I haven’t had a choice in the last two primaries in my home state because the GOP establishment made sure they manipulated the process to insure their candidate won in 2008 and 2012.

If you think the elite establishment GOP won’t do the same bloody thing in 2016 then you are stupider than mud.

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/29/2012 @ 8:59 pm

Obama sure isn’t Clinton.

If the GOP nominated Bill Clinton’s clone, that would be an improvement over Obama. A moby might not realize this. They may not get that Obama is especially awful at his job and the need to replace him is urgent enough that Romney is a no brainer. They may think this is just about democrat vs republican as usual, but it’s not.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/29/2012 @ 9:00 pm

Another thing for those considering sitting out the vote because they don’t find Romney worthy of their vote, bear in mind it’s that just a new president we’re voting for but essentially we’re voting in the person who will be charged with the appointment of Supreme Court justices. Also, as well as selecting an entirely new administration. Think about that. And then reconsider the foolishness of throwing a vote away.

Dana (292dcf) — 7/29/2012 @ 9:04 pm

they had to use former Texas congressman Cheney’s status as a land owner in Wyoming to get around requirements that a running mate not be from the same state

1. He was not just a land owner in Wyoming; it’s where he’s from. It’s absolutely common for candidates to run from their home states, even if they’ve been living elsewhere recently. 2. There is no such requirement. Both candidates may be from the same state; but the electors from that state can’t vote for both of them. So if Cheney had been a Texan, the Texan electors would have had to vote for Bush and not Cheney, and that would have thrown the VP election to the Senate. On the other hand if they were both from Wyoming then Cheney would only lose the three electors from Wyoming, which is a risk that might be considered worth taking. Of course being from different state avoids this whole calculus.

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/29/2012 @ 9:05 pm

0bama is especially awful at his job and the need to replace him is urgent enough that Romney is a no brainer.

Exactly.

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/29/2012 @ 9:09 pm

Name a political phrase every one is sick of because it’s stupid sounding and meaningless and mostly used by mobys:

elite establishment GOP

Ding Ding Ding! we have a winner

elissa (66dc4a) — 7/29/2012 @ 9:10 pm

Dana, indeed it would be nice simply to see the DOJ led in a different direction. Would be nice to see some sanity replace Fast and Furious.

Romney is risk averse and moderate. I suspect some on the left don’t realize Obama isn’t a moderate. Romney is an improvement worth supporting.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/29/2012 @ 9:11 pm

@ Milhouse,

So why didn’t she run? I was all fired up to vote for her.

Just speculating, but I think that perhaps Palin sees a greater value where she is now, more behind the scenes cultivating new talent, lending public support for TP candidates, and in smaller elections. I think it speaks to her grassroots sensibilities: building from the ground up. Also, she is very much her own person now and if she were the candidate, she would be very aware that the GOP would attempt control and rein her in. So why not continue to do what she’s doing now where she can buck the system and win people over with her lack of “politics as usual”.

Dana (292dcf) — 7/29/2012 @ 9:12 pm

“The sooner the better as we can replace the elitist, establishment GOP with actual conservatives…”

WarEagle82 – LaRouche 2012

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/29/2012 @ 9:15 pm

Dustin, with all due respect, which evidently isn’t much, you are a moron.

I am not insecure about how respectable or intelligent I am, moby.

BTW, the over the top eagle meme is almost as big a tell as being rude to MD was. You’re not even trying.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/29/2012 @ 9:16 pm

“I haven’t had a choice in the last two primaries in my home state because the GOP establishment made sure they manipulated the process to insure their candidate won in 2008 and 2012.”

WarEagle82 – Heck fire, you’re sure teaching them a lesson in the comment section of blogs on the internet. I bet that gets their attention!

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/29/2012 @ 9:22 pm

He’s a victim of the Elite Establishment GOP, daley.

elissa (66dc4a) — 7/29/2012 @ 9:26 pm

elissa – Nobody likes a whiner. We’ve got a big one in the White House.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/29/2012 @ 9:27 pm

WarEagle82,

The hope for the Republican Party is that real conservatives will work their way up the ladder in the coming years and reach positions of power, and that the existing Republican politicians will be pressured into joining them. That’s already happening in Texas, where Tea Party supporter Ted Cruz is giving establishment politician Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst a tough race. It’s happening in other places, too, and it will continue to happen across America in the coming years, whether Obama or Romney is elected.

But there will be a lot more damage to undo if Obama is re-elected. I want to elect real conservatives but if the choice is an establishment Republican or Obama, I will enthusiastically vote establishment GOP — because it puts us one step closer to where we need to go.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/29/2012 @ 9:29 pm

Are you an Auburn alum or fan, WarEagle82?

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/29/2012 @ 9:36 pm

Yes, a serious mistake – almost as big a one as picking John McCain as the nominee.
If you were comfortable with that selection, you are not the solution, but the problem.

AD-RtR/OS! (2bb434) — 7/29/2012 @ 10:53 pm

Imagine the past 4 years if Romney or Rudy were president instead of Obama.
We have a chance to correct that now.

What Cheney said about Palin is interesting, but she isn’t really a thing right now.

MayBee (fb7121) — 7/30/2012 @ 12:34 am

I had in mind a very huge flame but I changed my mind. Instead I’ll say two things:

1) Cheney is an establishment elitist idiot.
2) Dustin lost a lot of my respect in this thread.

Those are the two things I’ll say here instead of my huge flame.

John Hitchcock (cd0ded) — 7/30/2012 @ 12:39 am

Given that the nominee was already John McCain, his picking Gov. Palin was a bold but entirely rational decision.

The problem, frankly, was that John McCain was already the nominee. Bless his heart, the grumpy old man is a patriot and a hero, but he was a lousy presidential candidate and he ran a lousy campaign in which Gov. Palin was the singular highlight.

Beldar (8554bf) — 7/30/2012 @ 2:40 am

CNN Money but do the find on ‘Romney’ anyhow:

http://money.cnn.com/2012/07/30/news/economy/carbon-tax/index.htm?iid=HP_LN

As said at 55.) Romney will pay for cuts somehow, VAT more likely than Carbon Tax, a surtax on economic activity.

52. ‘Undecideds’ are @ 4%, no ones waiting, some will change their mind at the last.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 2:41 am

97. Romney is not making mistakes, McVain, OTOH, was a disaster, as though he took a dive for the Party(only half serious, but suspend the campaign?).

Looking at any of the Electoral College maps, Belial’s avatar is counting on states like WI, still colored ‘leans blue’ ubiquitously.

Blackboot has a breakdown creasing his face, he’s lost in his shirts.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 2:52 am

101. Cheney, in retrospect, spent half a term in an undisclosed location, likely on heart monitor.

Had he been called on to serve, it’d been at part time.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:00 am

93. WarEagle is a regular at Professor Jacobson’s and I believe I’ve seen him at Ace’s and Gateway as well over the term.

No moby, bet my charmed life.

The secret to writing is reading, Grasshopper.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:04 am

Another week that Ben will not be stepping in to save Barky.

Market will have money as long as its the only game going on the Atlantic.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:17 am

Doom is unavoidable:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/07/federal-bankruptcy-court-lets-stockton.html

Oh sweet Saint Andreas, hear our prayer.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:24 am

DRJ

What i find fascinating is a liberal democrat turned republican, is labeled a conservative by some not so conservative “tea” party spokespeople in texas and has liberal funding from outside texas because the last thing the liberals want is another strong conserative in the senate

EPWJ (f8e76f) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:40 am

Cheney is actually correct. Had McCain picked another elite, Obama would have won by 20 points and returned the GOP to the same stature as 1933. And, it would have been a true tidal election. Downticket losses would have been even worse.

cedarhill (f34944) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:44 am

So in Dustin’s world, anybody more conservative than Dustin (evidently not a high threshold) is a “moby?”

I think I pegged Dustin exactly right at #84…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:52 am

Gary, Wareagle – I feel your pain. I agree with a lot of what you believe, but I will vote mittens, even if he is a slimy republican. The last time I did not hold my nose at the ballot box was for Reagan’s second term. I guess I am stuck on stupid.

mg (44de53) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:55 am

Unlike neighboring WI, the state GOP in MN are flaccid, hollow men, heads filled with straw.

State chair even blasted Bachmann for her recent calling out of Ogabe for Muslim Brotherhood alliance.

Romney came in third and has done nothing to win a state that handed the Legislature wholly to GOP first time since 1976.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 4:33 am

113-Loon Star State.

mg (44de53) — 7/30/2012 @ 4:44 am

A question for all the establishment bloggers on this site. From Elissa to The Colonel- Would you be alright with Mr. West as the v.p.?

mg (44de53) — 7/30/2012 @ 4:46 am

Definitely wasn’t a mistake. Best decision ever.

tye (ba133c) — 7/30/2012 @ 5:19 am

I would have thought the people who won’t vote Romney because they believe he’s not conservative enough would have learned their lesson from 2008. People refused to vote McCain because he was allegedly a RINO, although he has a solid conservative voting record on spending and many other things. But he had a few liberal positions too. Now we have Obamacare. Would McCain have created a mess like that? Of course not. Plus there’s the two Obama SCOTUS judges and many others at the lower levels.

Gerald A (b00ac1) — 7/30/2012 @ 5:30 am

Ah, it was a good run. Next post, please.

Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:09 am

One reason we each have a vote is so we can decide for ourselves who to vote for in each election. I respect the various arguments people have expressed here and it’s productive to have a debate about conservatism, but it’s a shame to see conservatives attack each other over what should be a personal decision.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:09 am

89- limousine liberals, drive by media, liberal main stream media

tye (ba133c) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:14 am

8 that’s the mistake conservatives made four years ago. Outside of the far right she was a punchline.

tye (ba133c) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:38 am

I had in mind a very huge flame but I changed my mind. Instead I’ll say two things:

1) Cheney is an establishment elitist idiot.
2) Dustin lost a lot of my respect in this thread.

Those are the two things I’ll say here instead of my huge flame.

Comment by John Hitchcock — 7/30/2012

Cheney is no idiot and he is no establishment elitist, either. He simply has an opinion you don’t agree with. I think Palin was a great VP selection, but I can see where Cheney is coming from on her lack of readiness.

You haven’t offered any legitimate reason to disrespect me, so I’ll take your opinion for what it’s worth.

As one of many who argued against Romney being nominated, now that he has been nominated I strongly argue for Obama to be defeated. If you’re not on board with defeating Obama (which means supporting Romney), then either you fail to understand the ramifications of another four years of Obama or you don’t care enough about them.

You never bothered to explain why you’re mad at me, so who knows which of my points you’re disagreeing with.

it’s a shame to see conservatives attack each other over what should be a personal decision.

I think there’s more to it than conservatives attacking each other. I think a lot of this is mobies stirring up crap.

I believe a reasonable conservative would fight for a conservative candidate in the primary, and a moby would wait until there is a presumptive nominee to start fighting against that candidate. And then there are the stubborn people.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:12 am

So in Dustin’s world, anybody more conservative than Dustin (evidently not a high threshold) is a “moby?”

No, a liberal democrat pretending to be more conservative than thou in order to troll threads against the presumptive GOP candidate is a moby.

And you don’t seem to know what the word ‘evident’ means. You’re supposed to show evidence. I was more outspoken against nominating Romney than pretty much anyone. But if your evidence I’m not conservative is that I think the liberal democrat candidate should lose to the moderate republican, then I can see why you didn’t bother to explain.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:16 am

#123

Maybe WarEagle82 just recently started reading this blog. Dustin was very anti-Romney.

Gerald A (b00ac1) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:27 am

There were 3 mistakes nominated in 2008. Sarah Palin was not one of those mistakes. Unfortunately, two of those mistakes were elected.

I don’t regret voting for Sarah. I do regret that it included a vote for mccain.

Jim (748bc6) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:28 am

Off topic, but I’ve never met an Auburn fan who didn’t have War Eagle sh*t all over their cars.

Never. If somebody says their an Auburn fan, I know I can find their ride in the parking lot.

Regardless of who they vote for.

Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:30 am

I really really don’t like Auburn. Mostly Gene Chisik.

Leviticus (102f62) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:35 am

I knew that looked wrong.

“They’re” not “their.”

Mia culpa.

Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:36 am

“it’s a shame to see conservatives attack each other over what should be a personal decision.”

It’s a juvenile dick measuring contest to claim who is the most conservative on the intertoobz.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:03 am

I believe a reasonable conservative would fight for a conservative candidate in the primary, and a moby would wait until there is a presumptive nominee to start fighting against that candidate. And then there are the ~~stubborn~~ principled people.

You have introduced false premises and fallacies into your argument, and I only fixed one of the problems in the above statement. Gratis.

John Hitchcock (69d34b) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:16 am

==So the solution to left-wing socialists Democrats in the White House is to vote for left-wing socialist Republicans…
Excuse me, but if that is your solution, you need to rethink your position, Comment 7/29/2012 @ 8:12 pm War eagle==

To all–this was the first comment (although it was not directed at me) which set me off about that commenter (who is unfamiliar to me) and it went downhill from there.

My “solution” is voting President Obama out of the White House in November. I think that is a pretty essential step toward preserving what’s left of our republic. I’ve held that sentiment, firmly and vocally since January of 2009, (before the primaries and before Mitt became the nominee). If wanting from the bottom of my being for Obama to be gone from the White House by electoral means in 2012 somehow makes me an “establishment blogger” as someone asserts, well….. Frankly, I cannot process any logic in self proclaimed Conservatives and Republicans who -for any reason at all-would be happy to see another four years of the Obama-Axelrod-Jarrett regime in control of our destiny.

And, I will add this:
-When a person comes onto a thread obviously fomenting discontent and attempting to suppress the R vote in a way that will assuredly give away the election to Obama,
-and relies on threats and insults,
-and posits ridiculous theories such as that Huntsman (another Mormon and Westerner) could be tapped by Mitt for VP,
-then I am highly suspicious of that person’s motives and goals and I calls ’em as I see ’em.

elissa (d81401) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:25 am

Gaahh,

Please, let it not be Bachmann. There are three words to describe that lady — “Cuckoo, Cuckoo, Cuckoo!”

And it’s mea culpa with an “e”, PA. 😉

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:04 am

elissa – You just say that because you enjoy the Georgetown cocktail party circuit.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:14 am

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:16 am

I’m in like Flynn with those people, daley.

elissa (d81401) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:54 am

Elissa,

Very well stated.

I, too, get suspicious when people who claim to be fervently against Obama’s hard left wing policies are then asserting that they don’t plan to vote him out of office.

There’s a lot of that going on in talk radio—people call in claiming to be “a lifelong Republican…but…”

On the other hand, there are some hardline paleoconservatives who are utopian in nature. They, like the left wing utopians, envision perfection and purity, as opposed to accepting that human endeavors are inherently flawed. The utopians on both sides would rather see people suffer, rather than make compromises with their pristine grand vision of what humankind should be.

There are a lot of people suffering due to the Obama policies, and I cannot fathom that any clear-thinking conservative would be so flippant about allowing Obama to have another four years to run up debt, hollow out the military, authorize the federal agencies to operate outside their Constitutional parameters, and nominate not only a couple more Supreme Court justices, but to nominate left wing judges to the other segments of the federal judiciary.
Those consequences will be felt for decades.

But the paloeocons don’t care—they’re too focused on theoretical arguments to care about real life people suffering real life consequences.

Elephant Stone (65d289) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:02 am

People like WarEagle think petulance is a strategy.

SPQR (89f4ff) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:03 am

Lots of ASSertions there, stoned elephant. Let me give you a word-picture to try to help you out a bit.

You have two choices for leader:
1) A man who promises to behead one member of your family every day until you’re all dead.
2) A man who promises to behead one member of your family each week until you’re all dead.

Pick one. Don’t be a utopian ass and claim you won’t pick either one. If you don’t pick 2) then you are automatically guaranteeing your support for 1). Or is that an ASSertion even your utopian ass would reject?

John Hitchcock (69d34b) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:09 am

Hitchcock, an amazingly stupid analogy.

SPQR (89f4ff) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:13 am

SPQR, an amazingly stupid retort.

John Hitchcock (69d34b) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:23 am

Mr. Hitchcock,

I wrote that some paleoconservatives prefer to focus on ~~dancing teddy bears who live in a fantasy land filled with sugarplums, milk, and honey~~ theoreticals at the expense of real-life consequences of policies.

And how did you respond ?
With an over-the-top theoretical analogy about how Romney and Obama are competing to cut our family’s heads off.
And that was after you inferred that I’m stoned, and an ass.

“Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case.”

Elephant Stone (65d289) — 7/30/2012 @ 11:50 am

Hitchcock, my retort exceeded in intelligence that of the comment addressed.

SPQR (89f4ff) — 7/30/2012 @ 11:52 am

THIS IS PRECISELY WHY I NO LONGER CONSIDER MYSELF A REPUBLICAN!!!

It is so hard to soar like an eagle when one is surrounded by turkeys.

Being a “Republican” was just a matter of a “parking space”, as I have always been a Conservative first.

AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92) — 7/30/2012 @ 12:05 pm

Comment by DRJ — 7/29/2012 @ 8:03 pm

For accurate intell, we need to hear from Lynn!

AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92) — 7/30/2012 @ 12:08 pm

It must be difficult to be perfect and yet be forced to interact with Untermenschen.

Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 7/30/2012 @ 12:09 pm

Comment by L.N. Smithee — 7/29/2012 @ 8:28 pm

L.N.: Yes, Cheney was a Congressman, but not from Texas. He represented the entire State of Wyoming (just one Rep.) in the House of Representatives.
He lived in Texas during the Clinton years as the CEO of that evil corporation, Halliburton.

AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92) — 7/30/2012 @ 12:15 pm

PA, who “interacts”?
For, after all, is this not the (post) Age of Acquarius?

AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92) — 7/30/2012 @ 12:17 pm

AD,

I think L.N. Smithee was referring to the fact Cheney’s residence had been in Dallas until just 4 days before he became Bush’s running mate.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 12:37 pm

What a bunch of logic-depleted moronic buffoons. I created a word-picture showing that there are indeed times when neither option is acceptable, while one option is arguably better than the other. But the moronic buffoons, in their blind logic-free bombs, have chosen to refuse to see that that possibility can exist and some people can believe that false choice exists right now.

It is one thing to say “I understand your position but I disagree with it” and quite another to say “if you have that position, you’re overjoyed to elect Satan on earth for a second term,” which is where many, including stoned elephant and SPQR, are.

John Hitchcock (69d34b) — 7/30/2012 @ 12:42 pm

Either Obama or Romney are going to win the presidential election in November and take the oath of office in January of 2013. This is a fact is it not?

elissa (d81401) — 7/30/2012 @ 1:14 pm

Mr. Hitchcock,

Sir, again, you’re dealing in abstract theoreticals.

This November, there is going to be an election for President of the United States. The next President is going to be Mitt Romney or Barack Obama. It’s not going to be Barry Goldwater, it’s not going to be Calvin Coolidge, and it’s not going to be Gary Johnson. It doesn’t matter how many Americans sit out the election—there will still be an outcome. The man with the most electoral college votes will be our next President.

It’s not theoretical, there are no do-overs, and you don’t get to opt out of being governed by federal policies. You can scream, “But he’s not my President !” until you turn blue in the face, but he will still be your President.

Ask Wesley Snipes how “opting out” of federal policy is working for him. (But be wise and call ahead for visiting hours !)

I went to an ice cream shoppe last weekend, and they were out of my first choice flavor. Oh well, I made a second choice. It was “the least evil flavor” of the remaining 35 flavors to choose from !

If you’re ok with Obama, Axelrod, Jarrett, Susan Rice at the UN, and the hollowing out of our military, then go ahead and pull the lever for Obama, or vote for a third party, or don’t even vote at all.

But if you have had enough of the Alinsky Administration, then vote for Romney.
Mitt Romney is light years more conservative than Barack Obama.

But please, don’t further embarrass yourself with these Romney-and-Obama-each-want-to-chop-off-the-heads-of-your-families-analogies—that’s Daily Kos, MSNBC, Alec Baldwin, Mother Jones, The Nation, and Media Matters territory that you’re wading in.

There are a lot of good honest Americans who are hurting due to these kooky left wing policies. A lot of elderly people are seeing their retirement savings being eaten up by inflation, higher taxes on property and sales, as well more pain with the forthcoming capital gains hikes. Those people cannot go out and earn more money, and moving to another state with lower taxes is often too much hassle for elderly people. Try to not get so wrapped inside of your theories, and try to consider the elderly people in these aforementioned situations.
That’s just one segment of society, but there are a lot of Americans who cannot withstand another four years of the Alinsky President.

Maybe your bank account will be ok, but there are a lot of folks who are hurting out there, and they need relief.

Elephant Stone (65d289) — 7/30/2012 @ 1:32 pm

Comment by DRJ — 7/30/2012 @ 12:37 pm

And, did not GHWB keep a hotel room in Houston as his official residence (for voting and tax purposes) throughout most of his career in Government?

So, Cheney was “domiciled” in Houston as head of Halliburton, but his “intention” (as was GHWB’s) was always to return to his Home-State of WY – of which he would always be considered a “Favorite Son”.
I’m sure analogies could be found in the ranks of pro athletes, particularly when they are the citizens of foreign countries (hockey players, for instance).

AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92) — 7/30/2012 @ 1:38 pm

Was Halliburton’s HQ in Dallas?
That’s a strange place for an Oil-Patch bizness.

AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92) — 7/30/2012 @ 1:39 pm

150. A safe bet. Also safe is the notion that the Senate will not convict.

I don’t see however, that Congress cannot shutdown government to everyone’s benefit.

You nominated an inadequate dork and now you want to be held guiltless if he loses.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 1:39 pm

Look stop with th guilt trip, Im voting for Romney, I voted for Dole against the uruk hai Blythe, but I’m not naive to think it’s going to make a difference,

narciso (ee31f1) — 7/30/2012 @ 1:49 pm

You can scream, “But he’s not my President !” until you turn blue in the face, but he will still be your President.

Arguing a point not made, and you know it. I have on multiple occasions referred to President Obama. He’s currently my President and I know it. So, you can stop with that horse hockey or you can continue, knowing that I can very easily see that dishonorable argumentation.

If you’re ok with Obama, Axelrod, Jarrett, Susan Rice at the UN, and the hollowing out of our military, then go ahead and pull the lever for Obama, or vote for a third party, or don’t even vote at all.

Again, arguing a point not made and using the false dichotomy fallacy, as I pointed out very clearly I’m not “ok with Obama, Axelrod, Jarret” et al. So you can either stop with that line or continue using it with the full knowledge that I can clearly see that dishonorable argumentation.

But please, don’t further embarrass yourself with these Romney-and-Obama-each-want-to-chop-off-the-heads-of-your-families-analogies—that’s Daily Kos, MSNBC, Alec Baldwin, Mother Jones, The Nation, and Media Matters territory that you’re wading in.

Oh, bullshit! You cannot even come close to citing anything any of them said that would even remotely resemble your dishonest suggestion. When you’re ready to debate with integrity and honesty, let me know, because thus far you have not. At all.

There’s a reason I have a great deal of respect for aphrael’s debating: he tries his best to avoid all the fallacious argumentations that you have engaged in. Even though aphrael’s very wrong on just about everything, he’s honestly so.

John Hitchcock (69d34b) — 7/30/2012 @ 1:51 pm

AD,

I wasn’t suggesting anything was wrong with Cheney’s residency status in 1999. I’m sure he always felt like his home was in Wyoming, not Texas.

Dallas is a common headquarters for many oil and gas companies because it has traditionally been the center of finance in Texas. It also has good transportation and is more conveniently located than Houston to the oil patch in West Texas.

Houston began as the hub for off-shore oil companies but IMO it’s where more and more oil companies are moving. ExxonMobil’s headquarters are at Las Colinas in Irving, a Dallas suburb, although its long-term plan is to move to The Woodlands near Houston.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 2:03 pm

Only one man can save America now!

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 2:39 pm

I’m still perplexed by the hostility between conservatives in these comments, and not because I’m concerned about civility. What I don’t understand is why we all have to agree.

I understand if people are worried Romney and the GOP aren’t conservative enough — I’m one of them. I also understand if people are afraid of what Obama might do in his second term — I’m one of them, too. We each have to decide how much these issues impact our vote.

At different points in my life, I voted consistent with both ends of the spectrum represented in these comments. I voted for Ross Perot instead of George H.W. Bush because I didn’t like the direction the GOP was headed, and I wanted to send a message. I don’t regret that decision, even knowing it meant Bill Clinton was elected, because at that point in my life I felt sending a message was more important than avoiding Bill Clinton.

However, I’m voting for Mitt Romney in this election because I think Obama is dangerous. That doesn’t mean I learned from my prior vote. It means I’m at a different point in my life where I’m more concerned about short-term consequences than long-term messages.

Maybe I was right both times, wrong both times, or a little of both. But the important thing to me is that the GOP is made up of people who vote based on long-term and short-term concerns that may be very different, but together they impact the direction of the Party. In essence, it’s like capitalism: Consumers buy products in the marketplace for different reasons and prices, but together they make the market work. Similarly, voters vote for different reasons and concerns, but together they make elections work.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 2:40 pm

Yes, Romney and the GOP Establishment are far from being a standard bearer for Conservatism; but even with all that, they are whole bunches better than the alternative.
Don’t succumb to the Libertarian Disease of making the Perfect the enemy of the Good.
There is a reason that no Libertarian Party politician has ever strode upon the National Stage, successfully.

AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:02 pm

How can you vote for Romney, DRJ, when Hitchcock has established that he’s no better than a mass murderer?

SPQR (26be8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:08 pm

Well, it depends on which mass he’s murdering.

AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:09 pm

Vote for the Republican candidate or join the Nothingarians and don’t.

Colonel Haiku (d7c537) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:10 pm

“I’m still perplexed by the hostility between conservatives in these comments, and not because I’m concerned about civility. What I don’t understand is why we all have to agree.”

DRJ – Revisit the hostility over the Republican Delaware Senate race in 2010.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:31 pm

How can you vote for Romney, DRJ, when Hitchcock has established that he’s no better than a mass murderer?

Comment by SPQR — 7/30/2012 @ 3:08 pm | (Ignore this user)

SPQR, since I did nothing of the sort and you know it (or you should if you have had any literary education at all), you are being absolutely dishonest about my position. But that’s the point, really. You don’t want to be honest because you know in all honesty, you’re as absolutely rigid as you accuse me of being.

John Hitchcock (69d34b) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:31 pm

Here’s a clue for the clueless (like SPQR):

When someone says “don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater,” that person isn’t talking about babies or water or bathing. I know it’s a novel idea that those things aren’t what the person is talking about, but there you have it.

John Hitchcock (69d34b) — 7/30/2012 @ 3:45 pm

daleyrocks,

I don’t mind the disagreement and or even the hostility, since I can’t control what other people feel. It’s just perplexing to me that some people are so afraid that they are almost in a rage. How does that do any good?

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 4:22 pm

“It’s just perplexing to me that some people are so afraid that they are almost in a rage. How does that do any good?”

DRJ – It doesn’t do any good. It was pointless in 2010 and it’s pointless now. As I said earlier, just a juvenile dick measuring contest.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 4:43 pm

the primaries made the issues rather pointed, along with the one two punch of NFIB and SB 1070 decisions,

Now Sullivan’s Kramerica intern chips in;

http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/dick-cheney-speaks-truth-to-palin-20120730

narciso (ee31f1) — 7/30/2012 @ 4:44 pm

“You don’t want to be honest because you know in all honesty, you’re as absolutely rigid as you accuse me of being.”

he ain’t rigid… he’s my brotherrrrrr.

Colonel Haiku (d7c537) — 7/30/2012 @ 4:45 pm

and don’t confuse turgidity for rigidity…

Colonel Haiku (d7c537) — 7/30/2012 @ 4:46 pm

Hitchcock, you picked an utterly asinine analogy and I’ve ridiculed you for it. Take it like an adult.

SPQR (26be8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 4:54 pm

That’s your opinion, chum, and it’s rather wrong. But you’re not interested in examining another person’s point of view for the validity it presents. You’re only demanding your own variant of alphabetism, as Eric Blair would say.

John Hitchcock (69d34b) — 7/30/2012 @ 4:58 pm

No, I’m ridiculing asinine analogies about how Romney is as bad as a mass murderer.

SPQR (26be8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 5:02 pm

Save us, mr. happyfeet!

Pious Agnostic (ee2c24) — 7/30/2012 @ 5:08 pm

Well, I see this thread has fallen off the plateau of reason and descended into the abyss lunacy.

Dustin appears to be less unique than I had hoped.

I see there have been several “#84’s” pulled here since last night…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 5:09 pm

No, I’m ridiculing asinine analogies about how Romney is as bad as a mass murderer.

Comment by SPQR — 7/30/2012 @ 5:02 pm | (Ignore this user)

And I never said Romney is as bad as a mass murderer. “There is no bathwater.”

John Hitchcock (69d34b) — 7/30/2012 @ 5:20 pm

He’s right. He was also a mistake, he should know.

The Emperor (a22fc4) — 7/30/2012 @ 5:22 pm

“It’s just perplexing to me that some people are so afraid that they are almost in a rage. How does that do any good?”

DRJ – It doesn’t do any good. It was pointless in 2010 and it’s pointless now. As I said earlier, just a juvenile dick measuring contest.

DRJ, we lack the necessary equipment for clarity. Meh.

Dana (292dcf) — 7/30/2012 @ 5:33 pm

People like WarEagle think petulance is a strategy.

Yeah, so do jr. high girls – what’s your point?

Dana (292dcf) — 7/30/2012 @ 5:35 pm

“I see there have been several “#84′s” pulled here since last night…”

WarEagle82 – Everybody here loves them some “left-wing socialist Republicans” or whatever fantasy you were selling last night.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 5:43 pm

Dustin appears to be less unique than I had hoped.

That’s why Obama is going to lose. And yes, this isn’t what you hope for.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 5:47 pm

“Yeah, so do jr. high girls – what’s your point?”

Dana – Junior High school girls don’t have dicks and aren’t old enough to vote.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 5:47 pm

“I believe a reasonable conservative would fight for a conservative candidate in the primary, and a moby would wait until there is a presumptive nominee to start fighting against that candidate. And then there are the ~~stubborn~~ principled people.”

You have introduced false premises and fallacies into your argument, and I only fixed one of the problems in the above statement. Gratis.

Comment by John Hitchcock — 7/30/2012 @ 8:16 am

I don’t see a single false premise or fallacious argument cited, John. This is why you said you lost a lot of respect for me? That says more about you than it says about me.

We disagree on this. But it’s not fallacious for me to say that a conservative plan that includes four more years of President Obama is flawed. It’s not fallacious for me to say that Romney’s election is the only truly plausible alternative.

If you’ve decided Romney cannot be supported, due to your principles, that’s your right as an American and I respect that, but I do not think it shows a serious understanding for our country’s problems. I think Obama urgently needs to go, and Romney is a no brainer improvement. The time to fight against Romney was when we have a live primary, and I did all I could to push a nomination of a conservative rather than a moderate when it was that time.

What you’re calling principled I do call stubbornness, and I say that as someone who had that same moment of stubbornness where I saw that the guy I liked least was nominated and I wanted to pick up my ball and come home. I encourage you to weigh all the problems that Obama’s presidency will continue and change your mind to supporting Romney. Not dishonestly or anything (I’m not asking you to pretend Romney is a legitimately ideal candidate), but as the least bad solution for a country that needs every break it can get right now.

My disrespect was not directed at you or Gary, but towards the jerk. But if you want to take offense, I can’t stop you.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 5:58 pm

When deficit of literacy prevents one from discerning between “petulance” and “principled persistence” it is indeed a sad state of affairs. But one finds this commonly in the dens of dullness and absurdity in places like San Francisco, New York City and Tuscaloosa…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:01 pm

I don’t regret that decision, even knowing it meant Bill Clinton was elected, because at that point in my life I felt sending a message was more important than avoiding Bill Clinton.

I wish one of the “principled” folks had explained a point I’ve seen. It’s an argument against my view, but I haven’t seen it effectively made in this thread, so I’ll point it out:

After the Perot candidacy helped elect President Clinton, the GOP’s performance was greatly improved with welfare reform and better spending discipline.

This is the best argument the “principled” folks can make, as far as I know. (those aren’t mocking scare quotes… that’s just a normal quote)

But I think the congressional GOP is basically as interested in such reforms now as it would be after a repeat of this kind of campaign. The Tea Party has had a real effect and it’s time to keep marching as a few cycles play out. Also, I think the situation with Obama is a lot different than one with Clinton, especially as far as a second term goes. Thus I think this mid 90s GOP example doesn’t fit.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:05 pm

Well, at least now we know WarEagle82 is from Auburn.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:06 pm

In a perfect world, Cheney might be right, but September 2008, when the financial system melted down, and as Kipling put it in ‘IF’ she kept her head, while everyone lost theirs, and was the only thing really standing in the way of Obama, and was stabbed in the back, hundreds of ways, and yet still persevered, that isn’t really true,

Now WarEagle there are ways of expressing concern, that do not border on the asinine, and I’m being generous, Top Men in the McCain organization, who are now with Romney were
as much as the Democrats, willing to sabotage
her every action and word, Wallace and Schmidt
were only the front men for this operation,

narciso (ee31f1) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:08 pm

And I never said Romney is as bad as a mass murderer. “There is no bathwater.”

Comment by John Hitchcock

a generous spirit!

Colonel Haiku (d7c537) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:10 pm

“32, 41. Willard’s most signal pattern of behavior is he does not take an unnecessary risk.

It would take an Allen West tab to match McLame’s pick of Palin for stunning, out of character genius.

Bet that motivation has never entered his head, at least not since Prep school.

With Urkel faceplanting daily a chance at gaining votes on the Right is out of the question. His crowd doesn’t like sweaty knuckledraggers, won’t be seen with them or countenance owing them a thing.

I’m with WarEagle.”

Comment by gary gulrud

I thought I’d read that Hunter Thompson blew his own head off… not true?

Colonel Haiku (d7c537) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:14 pm

When deficit of literacy

I’m not a big fan of grammar Nazis or boldrage commenters.

You aren’t righter just because you’re louder.

BTW, as we combat literacy deficits, you should look up the word “unique” and investigate how the word can be used properly.

I’d use a lot of words to describe San Francisco, but dull is not among them. It’s an uncommonly beautiful place with an unfortunately very Obama like government. But that’s America. I don’t see why Federalists should be concerned with how San Francisco governs itself. It’s when liberals like Obama try to impose that on me in Texas that I am concerned. This is a great reason why I’ll be voting for the more moderate Romney. I doubt Romney will be much of a federalist, but he’ll be a better one than Obama.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:15 pm

John used a bad analogy (neither Obama nor Romney are equivalent to murderers), but I get his point. He’s not telling anybody not to vote for Romney as a protest — he’s saying vote for Romney because he is not as bad as Obama and, unfortunately, those are our two real choices.

I feel the same way. Romney is too light for me but Obama for four more years? Shudder and scream hysterically!

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:15 pm

And, no, War Eagle, I do not want to sacrifice four more years of America’s life in the hope that the reaction will strengthen the Tea Party or Stormfront, whichever you identify with.

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:19 pm

nk, John’s decision to refuse to vote for Romney is certainly his God given right.

It’s unfortunate that our decision is between two people who both have records that many conservatives have reasonable and sincere problems with.

But I think it’s still a no brainer that this is a special case if ever there was one. If ever there was a democrat bad enough to justify conservatives being extra flexible, Obama is that man. Just my view on it.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:21 pm

But, Dustin, I did not read John’s comment as saying that he would not vote for Romney or saying we shouldn’t.

Maybe because of all the times I, myself, have been very clumsy in making a sensitive point. And misunderstanding those of other commenters.

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:28 pm

155. Ah, ’96, the year I told a group of Perot supporters in the office they were wasting their vote.

Did I neglect to mention I’ve blithered badly in this life?

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:37 pm

But, Dustin, I did not read John’s comment as saying that he would not vote for Romney

My mistake. I haven’t been sure exactly what his quarrel with me was and am trying to understand his view. I thought a few conservatives were agreeing that Romney shouldn’t be supported in this election.

We all naturally get clumsy from time to time because this is just internet commenting and it shouldn’t be a big deal that gets people bent out of shape.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:38 pm

Vote for the Mormon, not President Gutsy Call.

Colonel Haiku (d7c537) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:39 pm

The 0bama campaign ad virtually writes itself… “He st00d up to Valerie Jarret…”

Colonel Haiku (d7c537) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:41 pm

184. Like I’ve said, there’ll be no cheaper seats than mine in the next life.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:42 pm

Your house is divided; helps Obama. 🙂

The Emperor (47dc7d) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:48 pm

159. “What I don’t understand is why we all have to agree.”

Qoheleth: There is a time for every purpose under Heaven.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:52 pm

Picking JD was a mistake.

The Emperor (47dc7d) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:52 pm

201. Inapt. WV, AR, and NC all say BootBlack’s is torn asunder.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:54 pm

Geek alert! teh Emperor has waddled in…

Colonel Haiku (d7c537) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:54 pm

203. “Do not despise the day of small beginnings.”

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 6:56 pm

@Haiku, yes am back!

The Emperor (47dc7d) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:06 pm

In any case, I will vote for Romney if only to cancel out my first wife’s vote for Obama. 😉

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:07 pm

@Gary, not all small things are supposed to grow..

The Emperor (47dc7d) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:09 pm

Mr. Hitchcock,

If calling people names is your best argument, then maybe it’s cause for you to re-examine the merit of your arguments.

Whether or not you approve, Romney or Obama will be the next President. And Romney or Obama will be lawfully entrusted with all the Constitutional duties inherent in occupying the Oval Office.
We must choose one—Romney or Obama.

There are no theories, no hypotheticals, no analogies—Election Day is Game Day.

Voting for Gary Johnson or for Mickey Mouse or for Floyd the Barber of “The Andy Griffith Show” will do nothing to kick the Alinskyite out of the White House.

Comparing the choice between Romney and Obama to a choice between seeing my family beheaded this week VS seeing my family beheaded next month, is hysteria at best, and complete and total kookiness at worst.

There are a lot of people hurting in this economy. You may be fortunate enough to keep your head above water, but a lot of people are hollering for life jackets. Let’s not be the proverbial jackasses by focusing our time and energy on rearranging the deck chairs or by scrubbing the shuffleboard court while people’s lungs are being filled with water.

Let’s show a little compassion for our suffering compatriots, and throw them a line.

Elephant Stone (65d289) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:14 pm

“Well, at least now we know WarEagle82 is from Auburn.
Comment by DRJ — 7/30/2012 @ 6:06 pm”

A discerning person, versed in the important matters of life like the categorical imperative, immutable principles and SEC football, would have surmised that solely from my nom de plume.

Which is of course why it totally escaped the demagogically dull Dustin in his “the over the top eagle meme” desultory declaration last night…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:20 pm

How many people have wives that vote for Obama around here? How about husbands that vote for Obama?

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:22 pm

WarEagle82,

I guessed that many comments ago but when I asked you to confirm it, you never responded. Now I know.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:23 pm

210. “Let’s show a little compassion for our suffering compatriots, and throw them a line”

I just donated 40 lbs. of fresh summer squash to the local food shelf.

Compassion begins on your street, with you, not the almighty Federal Government.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:25 pm

211. Dusty is Ok, he just takes to a first impression like many of us critters.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:27 pm

WarEagle82,
I guessed that many comments ago but when I asked you to confirm it, you never responded. Now I know.
Comment by DRJ — 7/30/2012 @ 7:23 pm

And I never said otherwise…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:28 pm

@ gary gulrud,

I just donated 40 lbs. of fresh summer squash to the local food shelf.

Compassion begins on your street, with you, not the almighty Federal Government.</

You set a great example, gary.

Dana (292dcf) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:30 pm

Dusty is Ok, he just takes to a first impression like many of us critters.
Comment by gary gulrud — 7/30/2012 @ 7:27 pm

Of course, you’re entitled to your opinion. But when ‘Good Ole Dusty’ decides that anyone a) more conservative than him, or b) in possession of an actual core conviction, must therefore be a moby I really don’t have the interest in watching him repeatedly proving my first impression of him was right all along…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:37 pm

Gary Gulrud,

When I suggest throwing a line to our fellow compatriots who are suffering during this Obama economy, I’m not asking for MORE federal government—I’m saying we need to get rid of Obama and the left wing chains of high taxes, spending, and regulation.

In other words, voting Obama out of office is the equivalent of throwing a line to our fellow compatriots who are drowning as a result of the Obama economy.

Jee-sus, Gary.
At least read people’s entire posts before you throw a hand grenade.

Elephant Stone (65d289) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:38 pm

Dusty is Ok, he just takes to a first impression like many of us critters.

Comment by gary gulrud

That first impression is remarkably consistent with its entire record so far here. I’m right.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:39 pm

Al Gore sued Dubya and Cheney in 2000 over the subject of Cheney’s constitutional eligibility to become Veep based on his state of residence. Gore was represented by one of Texas Law School’s most distinguished constitutional law scholars, Sanford Levinson, but ultimately, Gore lost that court fight too.

Trivia question (no fair googling):

Who was the winning lead lawyer for the Bush-Cheney team in that lawsuit?

Beldar (8554bf) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:41 pm

(I’ll bet DRJ knows, and maybe Patterico.)

Beldar (8554bf) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:42 pm

Sounds like another case of all Hat and no cattle to me.

Let me know if you find that core conviction, champ…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:45 pm

must therefore be a moby

Just calling ’em like a see ’em.

If you’re sincerely trying to persuade anyone in a constructive direction, that’s even more embarrassing than if you’re just trolling. You’re doing a decent job as a troll, after all.

I have never seen a comment from you that is constructive. Every single one condemns the GOP or insults conservatives. You often feel the need to assert you are more conservative and principled, and the reason is that your comments don’t actually show any conservatism or principles.

You are here to attack the right. That’s simply all you do.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:51 pm

Gore was represented by one of Texas Law School’s most distinguished constitutional law scholars, Sanford Levinson, but ultimately, Gore lost that court fight too.

Ken Starr? I didn’t google, so I’m probably wrong, but that seems to be floating around in my head for some reason.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:55 pm

Lots of ASSertions there, stoned elephant. Let me give you a word-picture to try to help you out a bit.

You have two choices for leader:
1) A man who promises to behead one member of your family every day until you’re all dead.
2) A man who promises to behead one member of your family each week until you’re all dead.

Pick one. Don’t be a utopian ass and claim you won’t pick either one. If you don’t pick 2) then you are automatically guaranteeing your support for 1). Or is that an ASSertion even your utopian ass would reject?

I don’t understand. What kind of insane person would spend even a minute pondering that one? Can there be any question at all that in that circumstance you must pick #2?

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/30/2012 @ 7:58 pm

Good point, Milhouse.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:02 pm

219. “we need to get rid of Obama and the left wing chains of high taxes, spending, and regulation.”

Oh, I read well enough. Replace Choombaracka and left wing nihilists with centrist believers in government, e.g., “Repeal and Replace”.

No, revolutions are ground up affairs. And unfortunately, as the Donner party learned, there are no good shortcuts.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:03 pm

My guess is Harriet Miers.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:03 pm

“How many people have wives that vote for Obama around here?”

Comment by DRJ

It pains me to say it, but she would soon be my ex-wife if that were to occur. I’m pleased to say, she’d no sooner do that than I would.

Colonel Haiku (2a81cc) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:03 pm

Only it’s not a guess as much as a vague recollection.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:04 pm

It was Gonzales…

Colonel Haiku (2a81cc) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:05 pm

You are illiterate AND delusional! I haven’t insulted conservatives. I have insulted the guy who calls me a MOBY/TROLL because I WON’T vote for a self-proclaimed, progressive Republican!

And frankly, since you are obviously impervious to reason, I will note that I am not attempting to influence you. But I am watching you demonstrate, beyond all doubt, to the forum that you are an idiot of epic proportions and that has already influenced at least a few people here. Irony can be so ironic sometimes.

You obviously do not subscribe to “better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” Give it some thought before your next post…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:05 pm

Colonel,

If you love them, you have to take the good with the bad!

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:07 pm

A reasonable guess, Dustin, but DRJ nailed it: It was Harriet Miers.

Beldar (8554bf) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:07 pm

And yet, she was considered not good enough for the Court, but John Roberts was,

narciso (ee31f1) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:09 pm

DRJ is right about a lot of things!

I recall her reaction to the Obamacare decision was that Ms Miers would have been better. Right then too.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:14 pm

212. The missus believes her bread is buttered by the Borg, the Spokesmodel is but a cog. Seamus killed Willard’s chance, I’m nightly taking out spiders and daddy longlegs.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:14 pm

Milhouse @226 – Let me give you a word picture to help you out.

You have two choices for leader:
1) A man who promises to force you to give oral sex to Nancy Pelosi every day until you’re dead.
2) A man who promises to force you to give oral sex to Nancy Pelosi once each week until you’re dead.

Pick one. Don’t be a utopian ass and claim you won’t pick either one. If you don’t pick 2) then you are automatically guaranteeing your support for 1).

I don’t understand. What kind of insane person would spend even a minute pondering that one? Can there be any question at all that in that circumstance you must pick #2?

What your word picture, my word picture or John Hitchcock’s earlier word picture have to do with the current 2012 U.S. presidential election I have no clue.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:22 pm

It helps to get old, Dustin. I forget things that happened last week but I can remember things that happened a decade ago.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:25 pm

Wow, this place just took a sudden and bizarre turn for the vulgar and disgusting.

Ever heard of the false dilemma? I am guessing not. Your third option is to remind the “leader” that this is a constitutional republic, that he works for you, and the 2nd amendment is there for a reason…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:26 pm

I think L.N. Smithee was referring to the fact Cheney’s residence had been in Dallas until just 4 days before he became Bush’s running mate.

The plaintiffs deserved to lose that one, and they should have paid costs and been hit with sanctions for frivolous litigation. For one thing, it says they were trying to block Bush’s election, but there is no way that could have been the result even if they had a case.

“The lawsuit cites the 12th Amendment, which prohibits the president and vice president from living in the same state.” But it does no such thing. Read it for yourself; there is nothing in the constitution to prevent the election of a president and VP from the same state. The most they could have achieved, had they been successful, would be to enjoin Texas’s electors from voting for Cheney for VP, and thus the VP election would have been thrown into the Senate, which might have elected Lieberman.

Even if they had been trying to do that, though, the suit was still frivolous, because the only date that matters is the day the electors vote, and there was no question that on that date Cheney would be a resident of Wyoming.

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:27 pm

“I haven’t insulted conservatives.”

WarEagle82 – You would be wrong there, cupcake, but then again Auburn is not renowned for its Mensa graduates.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:27 pm

“I haven’t insulted conservatives.”

WarEagle82 – You would be wrong there, cupcake, but then again Auburn is not renowned for its Mensa graduates.

Comment by daleyrocks — 7/30/2012 @ 8:27 pm

A declaration with no citation.

Oh, wait! You are going to spring a trap on me and tell me that Romney is a “conservative!”

You must be a ‘Bama dropout…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:37 pm

remind the “leader” that this is a constitutional republic, that he works for you, and the 2nd amendment is there for a reason…

Really, that’s more along the lines of a Bill Ayers or a Lee Oswald’s kind of thinking.

I can understand why the left, clinging desperately to what’s likely going to be a pretty rough election, would think undemocratically.

But the Tea Party is a very real phenomena. We do not need violence because we have great arguments about how the government is both run recklessly and also far too large. It is going to be a long process, but Tea Partiers are gaining power. This only just started with the 2010 election, and there’s already a lot of reason to be optimistic.

But if you’re trying to caricature the right, you might mistake our love of freedom of self defense for insurrection. Lefties have a really hard time accurately portraying conservatives simply because if they ever do really understand us, they will realize we are right and cease to be lefties.

We need more soap boxes to get voters to the ballot boxes to elect the most conservative options that can win. I’m a fan of bullet boxes too, but they really aren’t needed due to the great power of conservative arguments.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:38 pm

Moby.

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:39 pm

235. Interesting read. That and the GOP lead attempt to snooker him on prosecution in Iraq, I thought reeked, but only via olfaction.

Alito was a good salvage tho.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:51 pm

Never mind my pointing out the false dilemma in an increasingly vulgar and bizarre “pseudo-philosophical disquisition” and providing the ONLY correct answer to a hypothetical question.

Thanks for proving my point, Dustin and nk. I guess the words “When in the course of human events…” mean very little to you. What true conservative patriots you are!

Those sentiments are in fact the stated beliefs of men like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John and Samuel Adams, George Mason, James Madison and a bunch of other actual free men and patriots. And these men included the 2nd amendment in the Constitution to make precisely such a point.

Ayers’ and Oswald’s line of thinking was “sit down, shut up and do what I tell you or else.”

You two are bizarre and strange little people…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:55 pm

“A declaration with no citation.”

WarEagle82 – Are you setting rules now for this forum? Given that you made general comments to the board as well as specific comments addressed to Dustin that were not private, both as an aggressive asshat, what citations are required. Are you claiming you forgot what you already wrote? That’s right, you went to Auburn. I understand the problem.

Perhaps you are trying to claim you are the only “true conservative” here so you could not possibly have insulted any conservatives since you did not insult yourself? I like that logic.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:56 pm

Oh, and I just KNEW you couldn’t stop before jamming your foot down your throat again! Keep it up. You are proving my point with EVERY SINGLE POST!

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:56 pm

Comic relief

You must be a ‘Bama dropout…
Comment by WarEagle82 — 7/30/2012 @ 8:37 pm

Is it worse to be a ‘Bama dropout, or a ‘Bama grad???

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:58 pm

WarEagle82 – Are you related to Chuck Pelto?

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:58 pm

No, daleyrocks, but I see that comprehension is not your strong suit. I never said anything that you seem to think I said. But you are clearly an idiot of Dustin and nk proportions. Keep shouting it to the forum. It is mildly amusing in limited doses…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:59 pm

Isn’t anyone promising unicorns and rainbows this time around? That made such a convincing word picture in 2008.

elissa (3c6fd9) — 7/30/2012 @ 8:59 pm

I like the allcaps better than the boldrage, wareagle, if you’re keeping track of that kind of thing.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:02 pm

Well, MD in Philly, like they say, if you can’t go to college, go to ‘Bama…

Dustin, nk and daleyrocks are starting to look like the “It’s Academic” team rejects from ‘Bama at this point. Are they always like this or have they been banking their heads on their cell walls again?

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:02 pm

I like the allcaps better than the boldrage, wareagle, if you’re keeping track of that kind of thing.
Comment by Dustin — 7/30/2012 @ 9:02 pm

And you probably like bright, sparkly things too, but that doesn’t mean you understand what the words mean. I guess kindergarten really was the best four years of your life…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:04 pm

“You are proving my point with EVERY SINGLE POST!”

WarEagle82 – I have not called you a moby since I have seen you elsewhere, but the above is JUST SO DAILY KOS!!!!!!!!

You own the internet, cupcake.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:05 pm

I never said anything that you seem to think I said.

Painted Jaguar: Hey, I’m the expert here on whether the hedgehog said what the turtle said it said, or whether the turtle said what the hedgehog said it said, and when commentors are acting like armadillos.

I haven’t read all of the above thoroughly and I don’t intend to, but when someone shows up and insults the usual gang it often doesn’t make for a warm reception.

And if this makes no sense, go read some “Just So Stories”, it will put one in a better humor.

Painted Jaguar (a sockpuppet) (3d3f72) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:07 pm

Well, you can always stop proving my point with every single post.

You have the right to remain silent but you seem to lack the comment sense to do so…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:07 pm

By all means, PJ, start commenting just after you admit you don’t know what is going on and you have no intention of find out.

When the usual gang of idiots begs to be insulted what do you expect?

But frankly, now that I KNOW they don’t understand it, it kind of loses the amusement factor…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:10 pm

It does say in the rule book that a moby may appear in more than one internet place, Mr. daley. It adds to their name familiarity and blog cred.

elissa (3c6fd9) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:14 pm

Speaking of not having the common sense to quit being obnoxious…

I didn’t say what you say I said when you said that I don’t know what’s going on… I saw enough of what was going on to know it wasn’t worth my while to read all of the above thoroughly, and I have now found that to be reaffirmed.

Painted Jaguar (a sockpuppet) (3d3f72) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:16 pm

Use them as foils. For example, with WarEagle, “Obama he’s so nice, neo-Nazis want him twice”.

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:20 pm

Then, dear PJ, I’ll mark you down as “ignore” and won’t bother to respond to your comments until and unless I change my mind. Feel free to do the same.

Maybe you will find the vulgar false dilemma getting kicked around by what appears to be the “usual gang of idiots” more scintillating…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:20 pm

Oh, nk, you slay me with the clever rhymes! How long did you spend in kindergarten? I suspect my original estimate of was too brief…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:21 pm

This is an ode I wrote in pre-Aleutian, ectomorphic, freeform:

Moby, indigo moss on igneous,
Algae fail, no system kettle,
Thread, ted, not knot.

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:27 pm

I never went to kindergarten. Or third grade. Or fourth year of college.

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:29 pm

nk is the local incarnation of Maya Angelou! And your poetry clearly demonstrates your remarkable academic record…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:37 pm

Never claimed no reading, ‘riting or ‘rithmetic. Know a skunk when I smell it, though.

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:40 pm

Well, I’d have to see it to believe it based on everything you have posted here so far…

WarEagle82 (0bcfe5) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:43 pm

“It does say in the rule book that a moby may appear in more than one internet place, Mr. daley. It adds to their name familiarity and blog cred.”

elissa – I just have not called the jerk a moby yet. I am enjoying its amazing mind reading skilz.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 9:55 pm

You miss the point. Nobody gives a rat’s behind what you believe/blow out your blowhole.

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:00 pm

You are fun, though. Obama he say I stay, WarEagle say I obey. I try derail da thread, dose wingnuts make me mad.

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:03 pm

War Eagle he doan like,
Ain’t nobody not alike.
Dey poke fun at my rants,
Tink I’ll just drop my pants.

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:07 pm

Somewhere, there a youtube thread missing its drooling nutcase.

BOLDCAPS

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:10 pm

Here is an example of the genius that is Wareagle82 from Legalinsurrection:

“WarEagle82 | January 28, 2012 at 11:02 pm

I respect your opinion. I gave up on Bush at TARP. That was the obvious turning point in his career as far as I was concerned. I wanted to take back both my votes for him at that point.”

Holy smokes, giving up on Bush at TARP? With so many months left in his second term? OMG, what a sacrifice for the cause!

Wanting to take back both votes for him – Can’t everybody feel Wareagle82’s pain?

While in #28 above, Wareagle82 proclaimed “By 2004 I realized that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney were big-spending Republicans absolutely opposed to limited government. I almost voted 3rd party in 2004 but I bought the LoTE argument one final time.”

If you believe what Wareagle82 said in this thread, TARP should not have been a surprise to Wareagle82. Consistency is not one of this commenter’s strength’s.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:18 pm

I think Wareagle82 stepped out to milk his pigs again.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:25 pm

Gee daley, that means that I knew Bush was a big spending Republican before Warlock did.

elissa (3c6fd9) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:25 pm

Bush had many other good qualites and was a leader, though. I miss his humility and focus and his patriotism. And I miss Laura.

elissa (3c6fd9) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:30 pm

Junior was a hit and miss jackass.

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:43 pm

I have seen his comments at L.I. He’s pretty consistent.

Who in the world would take back their vote for Bush? Gore would have been a disaster. Kerry would have been a disaster. Bush made some bad calls, sure, and yet I’m grateful he won those two elections.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:43 pm

You have two choices for leader:
1) A man who promises to force you to give oral sex to Nancy Pelosi every day until you’re dead.
2) A man who promises to force you to give oral sex to Nancy Pelosi once each week until you’re dead.

Pick one. Don’t be a utopian ass and claim you won’t pick either one. If you don’t pick 2) then you are automatically guaranteeing your support for 1).

Again, this is a no-brainer. Of course you go for door #2. Only an insane person would take more than a second to think about it.

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:44 pm

TRue, it would take a degree of self delusion, to think he would be a budget or immigration hawk, he weas good on tax policy, although he probably conceded too much to the likes of Jeffords,

narciso (ee31f1) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:46 pm

Both the Shrub and the Magical Mau-Mau make Clinton look good.

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:47 pm

Junior was a hit and miss jackass.

Comment by nk

He got many things wrong and at some point, it felt like he stopped worrying about defending himself, which had deep ramifications. And the deficit was terrible.

Yet wouldn’t we be delighted to replace our current deficit with the $150 billion ‘RINO’ average from 2000-2006?

We have to fight these primaries harder, and I’d like to see some real overhauls to the process. I think we’re going to see those things become the norm in the future, and over time, the GOP is going to get a lot better.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:47 pm

Not only do ‘the goggles do nothin’ Milhouse, but
scarring required to blot out that image.

narciso (ee31f1) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:48 pm

Ever heard of the false dilemma? I am guessing not. Your third option is to remind the “leader” that this is a constitutional republic, that he works for you, and the 2nd amendment is there for a reason…

What are you going to do, send him a harshly worded email? Even if you think that’s a good idea, what has it got to do with the election? How is it a third option? Either Romney or 0bama is going to win the election, and if you live in a swing state your vote may be critical in deciding which of them it is. Once the election is over, you can send the winner as many “reminders” as you like, but don’t you see that it’s vital that that winner is not 0bama?

Milhouse (15b6fd) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:49 pm

really, how do you figure that, nk, the CRA revisions, the defense cuts, the blocking of the Utah coal reserves, the formalized wall between the FBI and CIA,

narciso (ee31f1) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:51 pm

I don’t know that I figure it, as much as I felt it. Maybe it was not the Presidents, maybe it was America an earlier time. Maybe I was still young enough for Monica?

nk (875f57) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:56 pm

Wasn’t that long ago, besides Clinton was a deeply unserious president,

narciso (ee31f1) — 7/30/2012 @ 10:59 pm

McCain was and still is a progressive GOP Establishment RINO to the core, for which Gov. Sarah Palin brought Conservative life into his dying campaign. If not for her, (who by the way was far more qualified to be President, let alone VP, than Obama was, still is and will ever be), his campaign would have been buried far deeper than it was.

The fact is that before the housing and banking crisis imploded, McCain/Palin ticket were ahead in the polls of Obama.. But the crisis that the liberals created that finally imploded on Bush’s watch, caused the voters to react to Obama’s blame Bush campaign tactic and run against the Bush policy worked, who voted in the radical anti-American Obama as US President.

This always happens when despots take advantage of an economic crisis, or any crisis in an election, which we are now faced with having to remove from absolutely destroying America as we know it for the past 236 years.

The Bush’s and Cheney’s are the leaders and face of the GOP RINO establishment, who have nothing but utter and absolute contempt for Ronald Reagan, who would never have even been elected to the US Presidency if not for Ronald Reagan picking GHW Bush for his VP in 1980. That was the only reason why the Conservative Reagan voters voted for the Bush’s in 1988 and 2000 in both the Primaries and General elections, was because of that connection to Ronald Reagan and Reagan Conservatism. That was one of the few mistakes Reagan ever made in his political career, picking Bush as his VP. Why, because progressive RINO’s have no gratitude, respect, appreciation, or loyalty to anyone who is not progressive like them, just like the Obamacrats.

GOP Establishment RINO progressivism is all bout big govt, and spend spend spend to make it bigger and bigger to keep that govt tax payer money trough open and flowing into their coffers, pockets, and their crony ally’s pockets, forever. They could care less about putting the US Constitution and America first. To them, they and their lust for power and control in the GOP political party establishment apparatus comes first above all else. Sound familiar..

Concerning Mark Levin’s reaction statement to Dick Cheney’s statement- in which he said Dick Cheney’s statement about Gov Sarah Palin surprised and floored him, after which he stated that he considered Dick Cheney as the greatest VP in US history, which I cringed when I heard that..

To that I say this-

Why does Cheney’s statement surprise you Mr Levin. It shouldn’t. If you know that these progressive GOP establishment RINO’s despise, disdain, and hate Ronald Reagan and any and all Reagan Conservatives, especially and particularly the Reagan Conservative Tea Party folks like Sarah Palin and the rest of us, whom they see us their #1 enemy, not the radical anti-American socialist-marxist Obama and all of his Obamacrats in Congress and the White House, who comes a distant 2nd or 3rd, if that much, on their list of enemies, so now, why does Dick Cheney’s statement surprise you, if you supposedly know all of that.. So if you understand this, then Cheney’s statement about Gov Sarah Palin should not have surprised you.

The Bush’s and especially Dick Cheney are the leaders and face of the progressive Republican GOP RINO establishment, who some conservatives seem to want to pay homage to them. And for what. It’s time conservative media stop paying homage to those, ie; the Bush’s, Cheney’s, and their GOP Establishment RINO ilk, who seek the absolute demise of Reagan, Reagan Conservatism, and any and all Reagan Conservatives, ie; the Reagan Tea Party folks of America.

ReaganTeaPartyConservative (5fffcb) — 7/30/2012 @ 11:41 pm

I’m with the early crowd on this one. Palin wasn’t perfect but she gained a HUGE amount of respect for the candidacy that it would have lacked with everyone else I have heard suggested.

Certainly the media went after her like rabid pit bulls and she was smeared with meat paste, and it made it exceptionally clear how blatantly two-faced all the sexist liberals really were.

I think she handled the insane pressure and scrutiny with excellence, humor, and aplomb.

McCain didn’t only make the right choice, he made the best choice likely to have existed.

I respect Cheney, and I could accept the notion that, in a one-on-one discussion, he could cause me to change my mind, but I don’t believe that is the case, despite my openness to that idea, it ties to my respect for him rather than any weakness in my position.

IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States (8e2a3d) — 7/31/2012 @ 1:40 am

293. Exceptional take, congrats.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 7/31/2012 @ 6:49 am

At first I was skeptical of WarEagle82, but after reading his comments I now want to subscribe to his newsletter.

Apparently, faced with the choice between Obama and Romney, I’m supposed to instead choose armed insurrection.

You’re a wild man. I want to party with you, cowboy!

Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 7/31/2012 @ 7:47 am

PA – Plus I come to this blog to learn and garnered some pro-tips from Wareagle82’s commenting style:

In order to convince people you are smarter than they are, rant and repeatedly call them idiots, use bold print in your comments, and assert that they are proving your point even if you have made no observable point, with every comment others make.

Gaining such knowledge almost makes it worthwhile to wake up in the morning instead of the afternoon.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/31/2012 @ 8:02 am

Well, it’s a shame the thread went down the road it did. I usually do not react anymore to people I find suspiciously irrational caricatures of conservatives, but I did in this case and it didn’t exactly do any good.

I think a better direction would have been to look at why Cheney should have understood the reason Palin is held in reverence to the point where even muted criticism triggers a lot of anger (and gives trolls a nice agitation talking point).

Palin is a true believer in government reform, and also is not elite, but most of all she was put through a ridiculously unfair meat grinder. This is a proxy, in the hearts of many, for the fate of conservative reform. It’s gotten a bit over the top, but the sentiment is patriotic.

So smart GOP leaders do all they can to respect this person. Few Republicans have gone through as much media evil because they were called to help someone like Mccain.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/31/2012 @ 2:30 pm

It’s all good Dustin. I think most of us knew pretty quickly who and what we were dealing with. Sorry you seemed to bear the brunt of it, though.

elissa (1a6129) — 7/31/2012 @ 3:10 pm

Thanks, Elissa.

I have given as good as I take on many occasions, so I can hardly complain about someone being unkind to me on the internet, which doesn’t matter to me in the slightest anyway.

Dustin (73fead) — 7/31/2012 @ 5:59 pm

Cheney is a very competent man. BUT, politically, he often has his head up his rear-end. His Palin comment is but another blunder.

Remember, Cheney proved to be quite poor at managing his public image during his time as V.P., being know to many as a ‘Dr. Strangelove,’ hiding out in a bunker somewhere, throwing switches. We might have known better, but enough of the nation did not.

John McCain would have been relegated to the ash-heap of history well before the November election, had it not been for Sarah Palin’s appointment as his VP.

If Cheney was so smart, he’d have shut his mouth, rather than open it and alienate the most passionate and loyal of the GOP base. How about he comment on the choice of a weak, pathetic sell-out and fool named ‘John Boehner’ as the GOP’s choice as House Speaker?

Robert Fine (cc42ad) — 7/31/2012 @ 10:45 pm

Heart attacks can be prevented if we just do regular cardio exercises each day and we also watch our diet, avoiding fats. ‘.,**

With appreciation http://foodsupplementdigest.com/vitamin-d-dosage/

Ivan Pliner (a36475) — 8/8/2012 @ 7:19 am

7/29/2012

Cheney Says Picking Palin for VP Was a Mistake

301 Responses to “Cheney Says Picking Palin for VP Was a Mistake”

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