His column is here.
If you missed the blog this weekend, keep scrolling. There was a lot going on, including my likely swatter calling in to an Internet radio show and taunting me; Brett Kimberlin’s Wikipedia page coming back after a long hiatus; and much more.
I was supposed to be on Laura Ingraham this morning but it was rescheduled.
Now SCROLL!
Pronounced "Patter-EE-koh"
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Is Kimberlin still on parole?
Steven Den Beste (99cfa1) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:16 amNo, it wasn’t, Patterico. It was deep-sixed.
I’ll be deeply surprised if either Salem or Limbaugh touches this.
But let me be proven wrong.
Please.
Garrett (a4e663) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:21 amThey had the wit and wisdom of Jennifer Rubin, on instead;
narciso (3c5948) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:22 amPatrick, et al…can we look for an update on Aaron’s hearing today?
creeper (f1f686) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:08 amI second the request for a report from Aaron’s hearing. Perhaps somebody can tweet something?
Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:22 amInteresting to see Aaron’s tweet:
A man who looks like Neal Rauhauser is here w/Kimberlin
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:29 amgateway pundit update
elissa (6165c8) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:32 amI hope someone’s outside the courthouse with a camera.
Waiting for news is nerve-wracking.
creeper (f1f686) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:34 amOh. My. God.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/05/breaking-domestic-terrorist-kimberlin-has-conservative-blogger-arrested/
creeper (f1f686) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:35 amComment by Dana — 5/29/2012 @ 9:29 am
Wow! That’s very interesting, showing up in court with what, his private bulldog?
Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:36 amHoly carp! On what grounds could Aaron have been taken into custody?
Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:38 amI guess the assumption is that Aaron personally controls what hundreds of conservative blogs say.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:38 amGood God. I was afraid of this. He needed a lawyer, he’s too close to it.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:40 amfrom Stacy McCain,
UPDATE: According to a source, Kimberlin claimed during the hearing that he has received death threats as a result of Walker’s violation of the peace order. In 1981, Kimberlin was sentenced to 50 years in federal prison for his crimes, including the 1978 terrorist bombing that brutally maimed Vietnam veteran Carl DeLong.
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:40 amAnd their commenters.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:40 amIs the popehat signal up?
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:42 amYou can bet your hat and ass THIS will get MSM coverage.
We are sooooo screwed.
creeper (f1f686) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:44 amUPDATE II: A copy of the “final peace order” (time-stamped 10:52 a.m.) states that Kimberlin is “in fear of imminent serious bodily harm” as a result of a “countless number” of death threats, and that “there is clear and convincing evidence that [Walker] is likely to commit a prohibited act in the future against [Kimberlin].”
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:45 amF@cking surreal
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:47 amJudge punishes Worthing for bloggers exercising their First Amendment rights.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:49 amOddly, from Malkin, et al, the sitting judge, Cornelius J. Vaughey retired December 31, 2005…
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:50 amIf he is retired, would that then invalidate the Final Peace Order signed by the judge?
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:52 amThe Peace Order posted at GatewayPundit prohibits Aaron from committing any “act that places the Petitioner [Kimberlin] in fear of imminent serious bodily harm, assault, ***, harassment, stalking, trespass, or malicious destruction of property.” I assume the Judge decided Aaron’s blogging contributed to Kimberlin receiving death threats and that violated the Peace Order.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:55 amThe Peace Order also prohibits Aaron from entering ANYWHERE.
Isn’t that hard to do? Or is this some sort of term of art that means something else?
Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:56 amI don’t know about Maryland but, in my state, retired judges often serve as substitute judges — such as when a sitting judge dies or becomes ill, has a conflict, or needs help with a large docket.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:58 amThe 1st Amendment and Truth just got a deuce dropped on them, in Maryland.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:02 amPious,
I think the Peace Order prohibits Aaron from entering Kimberlin’s place of employment, wherever that might be. The provision is vague but that could be because Kimberlin’s business is online and not at a fixed place, except perhaps his home. As a result, it would probably be hard for Kimberlin to successfully claim Aaron violated that particular provision.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:02 amConvicted terrorists, drug smugglers, and perjurers seek protection from 1st Amendment protected honest speech. Maryland should be proud.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:04 amAaron Worthing got arrested. Didn’t see that one coming.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:05 am“act that places the Petitioner [Kimberlin] in fear of imminent serious bodily harm”
DRJ – That takes a little mind reading skill doesn’t it if there is no contact between the Petitioner and Respondent? Who knows what BK could claim causes himself to fear imminent bodily fear.
I also take it he did not claim Aaron made direct threats. If Aaron did not make them, what is the chain of causation or control and how does BK prove it?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:06 amI saw a lot weird new commenters leaving surprisingly consistent comments about Brett, demanding or posting his address.
I criticized them. Aaron did as well. As far as I know, they were all deleted (yet of course they keep reappearing). My guess is these were largely or even entirely astroturf.
Aaron accepted the risk of lawfare escalating. He knows Brett has fabricated claims. But he loves his freedom of speech. I do not understand how this could be construed as violating a peace order. I am outraged.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:10 amI think you’re right.
Of course, Aaron’s blogging is absolutely protected by the first amendment of the US Constitution. I don’t usually mention such obvious things, but apparently it is no longer to be taken for granted.
If Maryland’s peace order conflicts with the first amendment right to criticize a perjurer for framing you, or for setting bombs, because that might outrage people (and I suspect astroturf anyway), then the first amendment prevails.
It’s silly for me to explain such things to DRJ, who understands this perfectly well.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:13 amPeople who actually make threats and bomb people and smuggle drugs and perjure themselves and file false charges go free while people who defend themselves and speak the truth get fired, get repeated lawsuits filed against them, and get swatted, then arrested. Bizarro world
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:13 amPray for Aaron, but also pray for Aaron’s wife. They have been relying on each other.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:14 amThanks, DRJ
Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:15 amAs his friends we need to help him get effective counsel.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:19 amYes. This.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:22 amWithout seeing the transcript, I’m wondering if you can take the implied nexus of control concept used by BK to shut up his crew, including schizoid Ron, Sheridan, qritiq, Neal, Big Butt Chuck, and NotBK, although sometimes it is better to let keep talking and making mistakes.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:23 amThis is reason for a few philosophical positions of mine, that I won’t get into now because of relevancy.
But yes, there exists no justice to speak of.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:26 amour justice system here in the United States is embarrassingly third world and corrupt and amoral
and not just in C.J. Vaughey’s court in Maryland it’s everywheres
it’s very alarming
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:28 amThis is crazy. I’m a long time lurker, and have very rarely commented, but I have been mesmerized by this situation for awhile and have been especially vigilant since Friday.
I want to know what Aaron was charged with. I would also like to know why a retired judge was hearing the case…at least according to what I googled.
Judge Vaughey retired in 2005:
http://www.msa.md.gov/msa/mdmanual/32dc/former/html/msa11890.html
Like I first said: This is crazy.
Dustyn H (ebe03e) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:30 amThere are circumstances where a person’s freedom of speech can legally be limited. I don’t know if a Peace Order is one of those times.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:34 amMore to come? Time for file Peace Orders on this side of free speech…
Breitbart Unmasked,“The rest of you plotters will probably be severed [sic] soon”
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:34 amdaleyrocks,
I don’t know how Maryland law interprets the scope of a Peace Order or what actions are prohibited. That’s one reason to have local counsel, so I second SarahW’s call that Aaron get counsel.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:37 amDana – that is NOT BK and NR. Nope. No way.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:38 amBut Aaron was posting facts and opinions. If he was threatening someone or coordinating harassment or lies, that’s not protected speech, but if a peace order can protect someone from an accurate description of their outrageous behavior on the theory that it might outrage someone, that seems ridiculous to me.
And why does Maryland have power over what people blog about from Virginia?
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:39 amYou know, I was worried when I learned that Aaron had his hearing today, so soon after Friday’s blogburst. I feared that BK would be riled-up and bring whatever forces to bear that he could muster.
I hope that one of you learned folks can get their hands on a court transcript and decode it for us non-lawyers.
Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:41 amYou just can’t represent yourself in these matters. Apparently Aaron let his emotions get the better of him and irritated the judge. The judge is the guy in the tall seat that you don’t want to tick off.
Estragon (ec6a4b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:45 amDustin,
I could certainly be wrong but I assume a Peace Order is similar to a restraining order and even the famous can fall victim to it.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:48 amEstragon, where are you seeing that Aaron became emotional and irritated the judge? I can see why you might consider that as a possibility, but is it actually being reported somewhere by a witness, or is it implied by some sort of reported legal thingummy?
McCain’s report that the judge became hostile says something about the judge, not Aaron. Right?
Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:49 amDAVE’S RULES FOR DEALING WITH THE POWERS THAT BE
Rule 1: Never, ever piss off the judge.
I don’t know if that’s what Aaron did, but it’s a real good rule.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:50 amThis wasn’t entirely unpredictable. Aaron was playing a game of brinkmanship with Kimberlin.
There are obviously some First Amendment issues here, but I’m not going to opine on them until I have more facts about what went on in court.
But I will say that I thought Aaron’s entire post was ill-advised, as it said (both implicitly and explicitly), “I’m going to keep on going after you”. So I’m not terribly surprised that a judge might find this a violation of Maryland law.
The assertion that Aaron was merely posting facts and opinions doesn’t necessarily get him off the hook. You can still harass someone with the truth.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:54 amDustin- I think you are right about the fight fire with fire posters. They were all new, and all hostile if you disagreed with them.
Aaron did nothing to call for violence or retribution. This is such a sad day.
MayBee (2f6e35) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:56 am“But I will say that I thought Aaron’s entire post was ill-advised, as it said (both implicitly and explicitly), “I’m going to keep on going after you”. So I’m not terribly surprised that a judge might find this a violation of Maryland law.”
Hey, fuck Maryland law.
Pardon my French.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:56 amWe already knew which team you were on, Kmart.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:57 amFrom the article you linked to:
Such incidents have drawn widespread attention to the Left’s harassment tactics, and inspired Friday’s “Everybody Blog Brett Kimberlin Day,” an effort by conservative bloggers to stand up in solidarity against intimidation.
It’s a shame that so many continue to try to make partisan hay regarding the issue. Bloggers on both the right and the left have stood together against the nuts. There isn’t anyone from either party that would knowingly work with a convicted bomber.
The reality is, as Patterico has noted, that this can happen to anyone, since sociopaths don’t exactly respond to logic.
Turk (3e21d7) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:57 amThere isn’t anyone from either party that would knowingly work with a convicted bomber.
Kos stood in solidarity with BK, NR & RB. Tides Foundation and Streisand fund them.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:01 amMaybee:
I think you miss the point. The Interim Peace Order against Aaron from 5/19 specifically ORDERED that Aaron shall not commit any act “which causes… harassment” against Kimberlin.
Now, you may think the 5/19 order was unfair, or wrongly decided, and that’s fine. But it still was a court order. And what did Aaron do? He wrote a 28,000 opus on Kimberlin.
And now everyone is surprised at this outcome? Seriously, if Aaron was my client, I would smack him around for stupidity.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:03 am“So I’m not terribly surprised that a judge might find this a violation of Maryland law.”
Kman – I’m not terribly surprised that you’re not up to speed on this hearing. Kimberlin applied for a new Peace Order against Aaron and a temporary one was granted. It supposedly governs activities occurring over the past 30 days. Today’s hearing was about the issuance of a final Peace Order.
You’re welcome.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:04 amuh… 28,000 word opus.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:04 am“There isn’t anyone from either party that would knowingly work with a convicted bomber.”
Baloney.
Democrats in Congress have already worked with Kimberlin, and they knew exactly who he was and what he’d done.
They’d work with Satan hisself, if they thought the horned guy could help them steal elections.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:05 amdaley:
What were the terms of the interim order, and did Aaron violate them?
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:06 amKmart doesn’t know if Kimberlin is reformed. And he hates the truth.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:07 amKman, I don’t see how Aaron writing an honest 28,000 word explanation of how Kimberlin lied about Aaron is “causing harassment”.
I think it is insane to suggest that telling the truth about outrageous behavior is the cause of others who commit crimes.
Let Maryland go after whoever wrote whatever harassment you’re speaking of. Blogging the truth should not be seen as the cause of that behavior.
If someone runs up to Aaron and slaps him because they read your comment saying you would smack him around for stupidity, you are not responsible for this. You are entitled to your opinions. People who make mistakes reacting to opinions are not your fault.
That said, I sincerely believe that the threats were astroturf in most cases. I can’t say that entirely. Brett is outrageous and I ask everyone restrain themselves from letting that push them across the line.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:07 amStating historical facts, defending oneself, and updating what has happened in Court is harassment!!!!!!!!!!!
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:09 am“Now, you may think the 5/19 order was unfair, or wrongly decided, and that’s fine. But it still was a court order. And what did Aaron do? He wrote a 28,000 opus on Kimberlin.”
Kman – Check you dates. When was that order served on Aaron?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:09 amyour
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:10 amDRJ,
I’m just outraged. If it’s the case that I can’t tell the truth and offer my honest opinions, then that is an outrage.
I realize that if I say ‘I don’t care what the courts say, I have my rights’ the court will react to this as contempt. But I cherish my rights.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:10 amTrying to identify and follow-up on people who make threats against Kimberlin sounds like a lot of work, almost as much work as listening to some voice recordings and seeing if they sound similar, so I can understand why the authorities might give it a pass.
However, Aaron was right there in court and it was so convenient….
Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:11 am“I think you miss the point. The Interim Peace Order against Aaron from 5/19 specifically ORDERED that Aaron shall not commit any act “which causes… harassment” against Kimberlin”—K-Mart, Esq., Defender of Tyranny
I wish to state for the record that I will flatly refuse to obey any court order that forbids me to tell the truth about Brett Kimberlin.
Especially, if it comes from a state that has no lawful authority over me (like Maryland, which I believe is one of those itty, bitty states back east).
And if I get tossed in jail for refusing to do so, well, it won’t be the first time I’ve been tossed in the hoosegow for stirring up a political ruckus.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:11 am“What were the terms of the interim order, and did Aaron violate them?”
Kman – Did Aaron send anything to or communicate with or visit BK, I don’t think so.
What provision do you believe was violated, please be specific?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:13 amDustin:
Well, let’s set aside whether or not Aaron was 100% “honest”. Let’s assume, for argument’s sake, that he was 100% honest.
You seem to think that “honesty” shields one from harassment. Let’s say I found out something bad (but true) about your distant past, and decided to follow you around with a megaphone all day – every day — shouting your “bad thing” to everyone I could. And then buying billboards and advertising the “truth” about you. And so on. It’s still harassment.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:13 amdaleyrocks and Kman are right to point out the terms of the interim peace order is what matters, not the final peace order linked by the GatewayPundit. In addition, Patterico saw this coming:
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:14 amI’m saying that if the language of the interim peace order was as I linked to, then I can understand how an impartial judge caused the harassment of Kimberlin with his posts, tweets, and interviews.
You seem to think the order only prohibited AW from communicating with or visiting BK. It didn’t. It prohibited a lot more.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:17 amDRJ,
If this is a circular game of gotcha that BK is playing re Aaron, then what recourse does Aaron (or anyone in this situation) have, legally? If, as Occupy Rebellion tweet upthread claims, that others will probably find themselves in the same position, can they not file their own Peace Order as a pre-emptive strike or something to that effect – something to head him off at the pass, if you will?
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:17 amComment by Kman — 5/29/2012 @ 11:13 am
That would be because of the shouting – which would indeed be a breach of peace.
It doesn’t follow that protected speech is harassment.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:18 amDRJ at #72:
You are right, and Patterico was right. And Aaron should have seen that as well.
IF this was indeed a BK trap, Aaron walked right into it.
Which is my point — I don’t think anyone can claim to be surprised by this.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:19 amKman #52 — I’m still not sure whether a peace order can restrict speech, but I think Aaron could reasonably claim he was providing information so the provision you link shouldn’t apply.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:19 amAce has a link to an eyewitness acount.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/329659.php
Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:20 amAaron needed counsel. He needs it now. We need to help him get it.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:21 am“You seem to think that “honesty” shields one from harassment.”
“You seem to think the order only prohibited AW from communicating with or visiting BK. It didn’t. It prohibited a lot more.”
Kman – Go to the Maryland statute governing Peace Orders and specifically show me how Aaron harassed BK and how the interim Peace Order was violated. Statutes govern this.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:21 amIs Kimberlin, like ‘He who shall not be named’ this is insane,
narciso (3c5948) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:21 amBut Brett doesn’t have to read Aaron’s blog.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:23 amFarghing judges.
mg (44de53) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:23 amExactly why Romney must win.
Dana,
I don’t know what recourse Aaron has under Maryland law. Hopefully he can get counsel who can help present Aaron’s side and what he’s done to the court.
And, in general, persons subject to an interim order should avoid doing anything that might prejudice their case at the final hearing.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:23 am“Kman #52 — I’m still not sure whether a peace order can restrict speech, but I think Aaron could reasonably claim he was providing information so the provision you link shouldn’t apply.”
DRJ – I believe you are right if you look at the statute and that the Judges are somehow believing BK’s claim that what is being written about him is being sent directly to him when in fact he is using a search algorithm to sweep the internet for any references to him and deliver it to his in box instead. He is actively searching out content related to himself, people are not sending it to him. Another of his baldfaced lies accepted by the court.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:26 amif I had a pancake house in Maryland what specialized in serving tasty pancakes and this fascist freedom-hating C.J. Vaughey douchebag sauntered in and said I would like some tasty pancakes please, I would pointedly point at my sign what said we reserve the right to refuse service or admittance to anyone and say, in a most reasonable and congenial tone, now please to get your punk ass out of my pancake house you are not wanted here and I will not serve you any tasty pancakes not today not ever.
And everyone would pause in the eating of their tasty pancakes to cheer heartily as the douchebag freedom-hating judge slunk out in shame.
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:26 amDustin, if we know anything about Brett, it’s that yes, he really, really, really does have to read Aaron’s blog.
Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:27 amKman, Aaron has backed up his account with documentation. I’m not sure you actually read his post, but I did.
Brett has a conviction for perjury and I believe he has committed several more recently but am unsure if you’re familiar with that either.
Your use of scarequotes around Aaron’s honesty suggests you think he’s. I’m not surprised you are not offering anything to back up the idea he was dishonest.
Kman, did you get an email from Ron similar to this?
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:27 amThis is tragic but I have to say after listening to Patrick and Aaron on the radio I’m not surprised. Aaron’s passion overwhelms him too often.
I suspect Patrick strongly advised Aaron to have counsel of his own at that hearing. If so, it’s a shame Aaron didn’t take that advice.
I hope some of the legal fund can be steered to our own John of Arc. We need the passionate ones to lead the way.
creeper (f1f686) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:29 amGoogle alerts are voluntary.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:29 amYou’re right. I think I was wrong about that to some extent. I thought Aaron taking his case to the public and getting more aware of what was going on was a very good tactic, but apparently it’s not a very good legal tactic.
It’s still wrong on a moral level to me. One has to decide whether speaking the truth or winning legally wins the day.
But at this point, hopefully others can pick up the slack for those Kimberlin files peace orders against.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:30 amPA @ 78 – Sounds like the Judge is a real rocket surgeon.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:32 amWho says he did?
Heck, all it takes it ONE email threat to BK from someone reading Aaron’s blog, and Aaron will have violated the interim peace order.
You didn’t see that coming?
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:32 amHaving read the eyewitness account I guess Aaron did get agitated. Don’t blame him, but I guess that’s what happened.
http://www.munseys.com/technosnarl/?p=1295
Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:33 amdaleyrocks,
The interim peace order tells us what Aaron can and can’t do. Do you have a link to what it said or to the basic form of a Maryland peace order?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:35 am‘Let’s say I found out something bad (but true) about your distant past, and decided to follow you around with a megaphone all day – every day — shouting your “bad thing” to everyone I could.’–K-Mart, Esq., Defender of Tyranny
True, I can’t follow K-Mart around yelling about what a tit he is into a magaphone. I’d probably get arrested for stalking and disturbing the peace (in California).
But, I can sure do so here (as long as Pat says it’s o.k.).
K-Mart…you’re a tit.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:37 amIn kmart’s world, AW is responsible for the actions of anyone.
And, Kmart doesn’t know if Kimberlin is reformed.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:39 amComment by creeper — 5/29/2012 @ 9:35 am
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/05/breaking-domestic-terrorist-kimberlin-has-conservative-blogger-arrested/
What does Brett Kimberlin think Maryland is: Greece? (In Greece the wrong people win libel suits)
Comment by Dustin — 5/29/2012 @ 10:13 am
If Maryland’s peace order conflicts with the first amendment right to criticize a perjurer for framing you, or for setting bombs, because that might outrage people (and I suspect astroturf anyway), then the first amendment prevails.
As Brett Kimberlin no doubt knows, it only prevails if you can get a judge to say so – if you know how to file the right papers and find the right judge. Where to go. Otherwise they can get away with quite a lot.
And the Supreme Court I think has held that even illegal court orders of prior restraint must be obeyed. Any other kind of order, even a Presidential order, is different.
This seems to hint at this:
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/09/19/us/magazine-plans-appeal-to-high-court.html?scp=7&sq=%22contempt+of+court%22++unlawful+order&st=nyt
In a First Amendment case that is drawing wide attention, executives of Business Week magazine said last night that they would go to a justice of the United States Supreme Court today to seek a stay of what they claim is an unconstitutional order that barred them from publishing an article last week.
Lawyers for the magazine argued yesterday to a three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit in Cincinnati that the judges should overturn the unusual order issued by a Federal judge in Ohio, John Feikens.
But, after hearing arguments in Cincinnati yesterday, the appeals judges did not issue any ruling in the case.
The Business Week executives said that their lawyers would argue that an urgent order was necessary from the Supreme Court because the lower court order was an unlawful “prior restraint” of the press that was improperly blocking them from publication…
I also found this which may not be to the point:
http://www.divorcerecovery101.com/kass3.html
There are only two viable excuses for not obeying a court order: Either the party didn’t know about it, or the order was impossible to obey. Impossible, not inconvenient or difficult! Attorneys who bring their clients to court with explanations other than these do their clients a terrible and costly disservice.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:39 amThis is speculation on my part, but the post at Pious #94’s link suggests that Aaron may have been cited for contempt because of things he said to the judge and/or because he wouldn’t agree to end this and stop blogging about Kimberlin.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:42 amThe Final Order is obviously prepared by Kimberlin, is grammatically incoherent and does not prohibit the conduct that Aaron is accused of violating.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:46 amToo bad they don’t teach about the concept of Freedom of Speech in the law school this judge attended – particularly the part about Truth being an affirmative defense.
AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:46 amI hope AW’s lawyer has requested “protective custody” for his client.
Link to what appears to be the final order in this Adams piece.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:47 amI don’t know if this is helpful
http://www.courts.state.md.us/courtforms/joint/ccdcdvpo001br.pdf
EricPWJohnson (0f0a26) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:50 amSPQR,
That’s the Final Peace Order entered this morning. That isn’t the same as the interim peace order that presumably applied for the past 30 days, although it could certainly be similar. It wouldn’t surprise me if the interim and final peace orders contain similar language.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:52 amand/or because he wouldn’t agree to end this and stop blogging about Kimberlin.
Why would someone agree to quit blogging the truth?
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:52 amAlso, why do you think Kimberlin prepared it? It looks to me like it might be a standard form.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:54 amJD,
That’s how the law deals with conflicts like this between people. It’s the equivalent of telling boxers to put their gloves down and go to their corners.
My guess is that’s why Kimberlin likes and uses it.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:55 amComment by Dana — 5/29/2012 @ 9:45 am
UPDATE II: A copy of the “final peace order” (time-stamped 10:52 a.m.) states that Kimberlin is “in fear of imminent serious bodily harm” as a result of a “countless number” of death threats, and that “there is clear and convincing evidence that [Walker] is likely to commit a prohibited act in the future against [Kimberlin].”
Then surely, George Zimmerman could have gotten a peace order against Trayvon Martin family lawyer Benjamiong Crump and Al Sharpton and anybody else who said he committed a murder on February 26, and have them arrested if they persisted. Because he and a lot of other poeiople really did get death threats.
The law is not really like that, or not applied that way.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:55 amthis judge is a stupid person
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:57 amSPQR,
I take back my prior comment. Given its content, you’re probably right that Kimberlin’s counsel tendered it.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:58 amDRJ, I guessed that Kimberlin wrote the text that reads “COUNTLESS BLOGS EITHER THREATENING DEATH” sentence fragment. If its the judge that wrote that incoherent addition, then I’m wrong.
In any case, the final order does not prohibit any Aaron from blogging. Although contributing to the incoherence of the order is the judge’s apparent ignorance of the medium.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:58 amNext, Kimberlin will throw himself down a flight of stairs in order to substantiate his claims of fear of imminent serious bodily harm.
Well, a guy can dream, can’t he?
Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 5/29/2012 @ 11:59 am“Having read the eyewitness account I guess Aaron did get agitated.”
Yeah, it sounds like he broke rule #1 and pissed off the judge.
Don’t do that. Trust me, I know what I’m talking about.
Aaron also appears to have broken Rule #2 of Dave’s Rules For Dealing With the Powers That Be:
2. Don’t represent yourself in court or legal proceedings. Hire someone who isn’t emotionally involved to speak for you.
Any lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client.
And, while I’m on the subject, don’t forget rules #3 and #4:
3. Always keep your yap shut.
4. Never rat on your friends.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:01 pm“now please to get your punk ass out of my pancake house you are not wanted here and I will not serve you any tasty pancakes not today not ever.”
Mr. Feets – I would not give him a tasty red velvet cupcake either, not now and not ever.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:02 pmEricPWJohnson #104,
Thanks for the link. It is helpful.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:03 pmIf you look at the other terms of this couirt order, it is really not contemplating publishing information about something. This was intended for someone who made personal contact with a person or his acquaintances.
It’s not intended for this kind of thing at all. Breett Kimberlin has mad ethis look like a personal dispute between people who know each other and had prior contact. Aaron did not know Bt\rett Kimberlin.
Brett Kimberlin got his hooks into him because
1)
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:06 pmIf you look at the other terms of this couirt order, it is really not contemplating publishing information about something. This was intended for someone who made personal contact with a person or his acquaintances.
It’s not intended for this kind of thing at all. Breett Kimberlin has mad ethis look like a personal dispute between people who know each other and had prior contact. Aaron did not know Bt\rett Kimberlin.
Brett Kimberlin got his hooks into him because
1)
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:06 pm“The interim peace order tells us what Aaron can and can’t do. Do you have a link to what it said or to the basic form of a Maryland peace order?”
DRJ – I believe it was on Aaron’s blog.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:08 pmThe final peace order is here:
http://i.imgur.com/55TPK.jpg
Breet Kimberlin got his hooks into him because’
1) He sued him
2) They had a little confrontation ouitsiode the courtroom (and Kimberlin told a bunch of lies about what happenbed)
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:10 pmno Mr. daley no cupcakes for people what undermine a pikachu’s already-waning faith in his little country’s justice system
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:11 pm“Heck, all it takes it ONE email threat to BK from someone reading Aaron’s blog, and Aaron will have violated the interim peace order.”
Kman – Really? Has Aaron published BK’s email address on his blog? How would somebody know the threat came from somebody reading Aaron’s blog?
Did BK identify the threats in court today?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:13 pmSPQR:
I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that, in the judge’s mind, it DOES prohibit blogging. Paragraph 2 of the Court’s Order states that AW is prohibited from “any act that places Petitioner [BK] in fear of… harassment”.
I’m only guessing, but I suspect there was some courtroom discussion about whether or not the judge’s order prohibits blogging about BK. And I suspect that if the judge said “yes, it does”, and Aaron says “Oh, no you can’t”, that would explain the contempt citation that is being reported on some blogs.
Again, all speculation on my part. We’ll need a court transcript to find out what really went on.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:13 pmSammy, Aaron did not sue Kimberlin.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:13 pmDid BK identify the threats in court today?
Comment by daleyrocks — 5/29/2012 @ 12:13 pm
Well, “[Aaron] googled [Kimberlin] 500,000 times’ on the tubes or whatever.”
Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:15 pmdaleyrocks,
Thanks. I found the Interim Peace Order here. It has the same wording as the Final Peace Order that prohibits Aaron from any “act that places the Petitioner [Kimberlin] in fear of imminent serious bodily harm, assault, ***, harassment, stalking, trespass, or malicious destruction of property.” It also prohibits contact “in person, by telephone, in writing, or by any other means” that harasses Kimberlin.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:15 pmActually, he did.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:16 pmKman, if your guess is correct, then together with the written order it shows that the judge is ignorant of the technology and that the judge has written an unconstitutional order if he interprets it so broadly. Further, “harrassment” in the order can’t be so broad as that, as that would be unconstitutionally vague in providing notice required by due process.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:17 pm“Actually, he did.”
In Virginia, not Maryland, I believe.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:18 pm“Further, “harrassment” in the order can’t be so broad as that, as that would be unconstitutionally vague in providing notice required by due process.”
SPQR – Exactly. It does not comport with the Maryland Statutes defining harassment or covering Peace Orders.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:20 pmFrom Pious’ link…
‘That said, Judge Vaughey did know a lot about the kind of respect a Judge is owed. He also, again, knew all about Kimberlin, saying “even a prostitute is entitled to protection.”’
‘And Walker pissed him off. So did Kimberlin, but Walker identified himself as a Yale-trained lawyer, albeit one who was representing himself. Kimberlin made any number of allegations–essentially, everything that was said about his side–issuing death threats, harming business interests, summoning SWAT teams to the home–was said by Kimberlin to have been done by Walker’s side.’
‘The pair went back and forth, back and forth, with Walker getting increasingly flustered, and the Judge finally asking, “what did they tell you in Yale Law School about interrupting a judge?” And later advising Walker to sit down, grip a pencil, and whenever he was tempted to speak over the Judge (or Kimberlin, but mostly over the Judge), to instead grip the pencil.’
Dude…don’t do that. Judges hate that kinda stuff.
And, no matter how mad they make you, never slug a judge in a courtroom. That really gets their dander up.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:20 pmIf this blog article is true that I will link, it looks like Aaron made a big mistake in court today. He is to close to this to be defending himself and to many emotions involved.
Sanmon (98e434) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:21 pmDon’t defend yourself Get a lawyer no matter what!
I don’t think the judge is ignorant of the technology, but I do agree with you that there are First Amendment issues all over the place. The truth is that the law is unsettled in this area.
Excellent point.
However, as I said, if there was a courtroom discussion where the blogging/harassment issue was discussed, you lose the “vagueness” argument.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:23 pmAlso from the blog post linked by Pious Agnostic, above:
Read the whole thing.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:23 pmI agree, although I seriously doubt that Aaron’s courtroom demeanor and his interruptions, unhelpful as they were, explain why he was arrested.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:26 pmDRJ @134:
Thanks for sharing that. That helps explain a lot.
I can’t get the link (work is blocking it).
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:28 pmAs I said on Ace’s, the more I think about this, the more I realize this:
The nearest real-world equivalent to the #hashtag is writing someone’s name for distribution to the public as, for example, in a book or an article in a newspaper. It isn’t the same as contacting someone *although*, people being people, many won’t be able to resist the temptation to find out what others are saying about them.
But that isn’t “contacting” someone.
If the Peace Order was meant to prohibit Aaron from saying or writing Brett Kimberlin’s name, it should have done so.
This is an unconstitutional violation of Worthing’s free speech, and I’m not one of the far-rightists who go around saying that everything I don’t like is unconstitutional.
Being arrested for contempt is another matter. But it looks like the judge is a dumbarse … who therefore *earned* a heaping serving of contempt.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:30 pmIs this Kimberlin guy still on parole? He’d have to be, right?
j curtis (675b6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:31 pmIt sounds like the Judge told Aaron he couldn’t blog about Kimberlin any more. If so, Aaron may well have refused to accept this order and was held in contempt.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:31 pm“and by harm or contact the Judge sending blog posts or tweets.”
DRJ – This whole “sending blog posts or tweets” BS you can see in the transcript from the April Peace Order hearing. BK talks about them arriving in his in box everyday, but claims he is not on twitter and does not blog. So how do these things arrive in his in box every day?
It is a miracle of modern technology I guess.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:33 pmThere’s actually no way to reasonably read Aaron Worthing/Walker as being in violation of this or a similar court order.
The final peace order says he shall not commit or threaten to commit…serious bodily harm etc. And it is limited to that kinds of thing. It’s at least got to be malicious destruction of property.
He shall not contact him (and I think this means something directed just at him)
He shall not enter the residence including yard etc
…stay away from his place of employment…
Now they have the argument, he did electronic contact, which is a kind of “other means” beyond in person, in writing or by telephone.
But writing about someone to third parties is not contact by the petitioner.
It is just totally wrong to blame him for any contact anybody else makes. Unless they are doing it at his instigation AND FOR THAT THE MESSAGE – THE MESSAGE – ALSO HAS TO BE WHAT THE RESPONDENT WANTS COMMUNICATED. Anything else is a totally unreasonable reading.
How can the communication be his if he doesn’t direct someone else what to say??
And Brett Kimberlin can’t just merrily say that anything anybody says to him (or that he claims anybody says to him) is at the direction of Aaron.
Of course, he can lie. He can say people said they were doing this because Aaron told them to.
I don’t know if he even said that, or just got the judge to rule that anything that happened was an act of Aaron. Which is a travesty. Aaron is not responsible for what any third parties may do, and the court order doesn’t claim to make him responsible for that..
These court orders are not broad. Indeed such court orders do not even apply to contact by an attorney to the other person’s attorney or even the other person…
Even a person’s attorney is not considered to be acting at the respondent’s instigation in this respect!!
Did Aaron tell any blogs or bloggers to threaten Brett Kimberlin with death – or to say anything at all to him?
I don’t think so.
So what we have here is that all the blogs in the blog burst are supposed to be part of some conspiracy directed by Aaron, while Kimberlin is not involved with any conspiracy.
Somebody earlier, maybe or maybe not precisely or only Brett Kimberlin was really trying to get a threatening message through to Patterico, the Other McCain, Aaron, Ace of Spades now too, etc –
But not the reverse.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:36 pmGood for Aaron if so. The judge is unconstitutionally overstepping his bounds.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:37 pmFrom a legal standpoint, I sympathize with Aaron and those who object to this as an effort to silence him. My approach would be to abide by the court’s orders/rulings and challenge them on appeal, but this case illustrates that isn’t the only approach. It reminds me of many civil rights advocates who wanted to be arrested so they could get their day in court.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:38 pmBreet Kimberlin claims that Aaron sent him blog posts and tweets?
HOW EXACTLY?
If he subscribed to them that’s not sending them to him. He has to intentionally intend for Brett to get them.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:39 pmthe final order does not prohibit any Aaron from blogging
Does this mean that we’re all Aarons now?
PA – an elevator shaft would be much better than a flight of stairs.
"I am Aaron!" (b8ab92) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:41 pmIf the judge told aaron not to blog abouit Kimberlin …that’s not what is in the written order and it is not a reasonable interpretation of it. And the judge probably has no power to issue such an order. Maryland law probably strictlky limits what a peace order can order. And forbidding people from discussing his problems with third parties is not one of them.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:42 pmdaleyrocks,
As for the Google alerts, either Aaron didn’t get that point across to the Judge or the Judge didn’t agree with him. Or maybe the death threats weren’t the main focus. It may be that the Judge views a peace order as prohibiting parties from talking to each other and about each other. I don’t know.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:42 pmI’m with DRJ @139.
While it is possible that Aaron was put in jail for violating the Interim Peace Order of two weeks ago (by blogging about BK), I think it is more likely that Aaron was arrested for stating that he refuses to comply with the Final Peace Order entered today, which would have prohibited him from blogging about BK in the future.
Aaron should have accepted the Final Peace Order, not blogged about BK, while simultaneously appealing the terms of the Final Peace Order. Getting thrown into jail for contempt doesn’t help him.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:42 pmSammy:
Well, again, it’s not just what is in the written order. If there was a discussion on the record about what the written order means, and the judge says “it means X”, that’s binding.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:44 pmYes, exactly.
As is following Twitter hashtags.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:45 pmBattery?
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:47 pmJudge Cornelius J. Vaughey may not be the south-end of a north-bound mule, but he’s pulling-off a remarkable impersonation.
And, BTW, Brett Kimberlin is still a convicted felon who is indirectly responsible for the death of another.
"I am Aaron!" (b8ab92) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:48 pmMore.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:48 pm@103 Would this even be legal as it is impossible to know where Kimberlin is going to be. So BK could arrange to be someplace where Aaron would be and cause an instant violation. Also, since BK lives ANYWHERE, and works ANYWHERE, where is Aaron allowed to live and work?
Jay H Curtis (804124) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:52 pmYou’re being too literal, Jay Curtis.
I’ll give an example. A common term for a Peace Order is something like, “Is not to come within 200 yards of John Doe.”
This doesn’t mean if you turn a corner and John Doe’s there, you’ve violated the order. But one of you has to turn around and walk away, and guess who that is?
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:55 pmWe already knew which team Kmart was on.
Truth and honesty and the 1st Amendment are taking a beating today. Sans K-Y.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 12:57 pmRandom links to a Hot Air comment.
The arrest of Aaron had nothing to do with anything that happened at the hearing.
This was apparently a trap sprung by Brett Kimberlin to get him hauled away.
First, earlier, at 3:20, the Hot air commentator Random links to reported:
Per the clerk’s office, Walker was arrested on an outstanding warrant for battery. I’m trying to track it down, but I suspect Kimberlin caused another assault charge to be filed at the last minute, to ambush Walker with the warrant.
When he tracked it down it turned out to be a violation of a peace order.
Case No 5D00279004
Warrant issued on May 27,2012 for Failure To Obey a Peace Order
Pretty clear what happened. Kimberlin knows how these things work. Filing a complaint for violation of a peace order cause a warrant to be issued with virtually no review, a rubber stamp process. Kimberlin apparently initiated that process to get a warrant issued at the last minute, so no one would know. No doubt he informed the sheriff that Walker would be in court.
Walker’s detention will be reviewed shortly by a commissioner. He should be released thereafter, assuming the commissioner in not another retired dementia case sitting for a competent person.
It sounds like this was the same act of grabbing his iPad he wanted Aaron prosecuted for, because I don’t know what other battery he could accuse Aaron of!
If there had been any notice this warrant could have been vacated.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:05 pmSorry about being too literal. I thought the legal field was all about the details. The misplaced comma, etc.
As has already been stated, “The law is an ass…”.
Disclaimer: There are many fine lawyers on this forum, but the system is badly broken in so many ways. When precedent is based upon precedent upon precedent so that common sense is no longer applicable, then there needs to be a serious effort to fix what is broken.
Jay H Curtis (804124) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:06 pmDid BK try to get a warrant sworn out for violation of interim Peace Order on Sunday? Has this judge ever heard of the inbertubes? Did they authenticate even one “threat” as having originated from AW?
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:06 pmIt looks like Cornelius J. Vaughey is NOT this judge that had Aaron Worthing arrested (although he seems to badly misunderstand how the Internet works), and that Aaron wasn’t arrested for contempt.
“novaculus” at Hot Air seems to be pretty knowledgeable here, and found the case number and arrest warrant (issued on May 27th, a Sunday). Scroll backwards in the Hot Air headline thread for details, but a brief summary is here:
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:08 pmhey gimme back my ipad
no for reals you better give it back or I’m a tell C.J. on you and you’re gonna get in big trouble mister cause you’re a big meanie ipad-taker
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:08 pmYes, make this a Constitutional issue! Perhaps Scalia and Roberts can come to Aaron’s defense?
Seems to me, Aaron could just stop being obsessed with Kimberlin. After all, Kimberlin has enough on his plate with all this bad publicity.
Any word on which AM radio show/rightwing blog/Fox show Aaron will get his sinecure at?
timb (449046) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:09 pm“I agree, although I seriously doubt that Aaron’s courtroom demeanor and his interruptions, unhelpful as they were, explain why he was arrested.”
I don’t why Aaron was arrested, but it’s still a bad idea to interrupt judges.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:11 pmComment by Kman — 5/29/2012 @ 12:44 pm
Well, again, it’s not just what is in the written order. If there was a discussion on the record about what the written order means, and the judge says “it means X”, that’s binding.
A judge can’t act like Humpty Dumpty. This might only be if it is reasonable interpretation of his forthcoming order, and there is a reasonable reason for not putting it in writing. But the judge cannot use a discussion, I don’t think, to get around a state law that limits his authority.
There are limitations on his authority.
From the text of the order, it is not clear that the judge understands that a “blog” is not a post or comment but is a separate platform.
In any case, Aaron actually got arrested not for anything that happened today in the courtroom, but because Brett Kimberlin had filed a complaint that Aaron had violated a previous order by battering him.
Presumably this refers to snatching the iPad and the imaginary assault DISPROVEN BY VIDEO CAMERAS.
Was an order outstanding already?
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:13 pmI am shocked that leftist stalker types attorneys support Kimberlin. Shocked.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:14 pmComment by timb — 5/29/2012 @ 1:09 pm
Any word on which AM radio show/rightwing blog/Fox show Aaron will get his sinecure at?
Most radio stations would probably be too scared of litigation.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:14 pmIt looks like the wording in the peace order against Aaron was taken almost verbatim from the standard Maryland peace order application
EricPWJohnson (ab6cc8) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:16 pmhttp://www.courts.state.md.us/courtforms/joint/ccdcdvpo001br.pdf
“After all, Kimberlin has enough on his plate with all this bad publicity.”
My heart bleeds.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:16 pmComment by Kman — 5/29/2012 @ 12:42 pm
Final Peace Order entered today, which would have prohibited him from blogging about BK in the future.
If we have the text right, the final peace order doesn’t do that.
This whole arrest is just a legal trick on the part of Brett Kimberlin.
Getting thrown into jail for contempt doesn’t help him.
He was not thrown in jail for contempt. He was thrown in jail after the hearing wsas over.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:17 pmSome one may have already posted this but, from the comments at Ace:
This morning, I attended the hearing
over a protective order sought by Brett Kimberlin against Aaron Walker
in Rockville, MD. There were only a few people there.
Walker, the defendant, if you
will–and I apologize for getting any terminology wrong, I don’t have a
lot of experience with peace orders, as my thorough pre-adoption
criminal background check shows–had to represent himself. Kimberlin had
an attorney present, who issued a few objections, nearly inaudible to
me.
The Judge, and I haven’t confirmed
this, but I believe he was former Montgomery County Chief Justice James
Vaughan–a guy who retired in ’04, and still takes the odd shift when
stuff gets busy or there are vacations. In an earlier matter, Judge
Vaughan mentioned he lived in the Caribbean, so pretty sure that’s the
guy.
It went bad for Walker
Mike K (326cba) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:18 pmpretty quickly. If you’ve followed the matter, and I know not a lot of
people have, Walker, who is an attorney, acted in an advisory capacity
for another blogger who had dealings with Kimberlin. Kimberlin later
accused Walker of assault; those charges were null-processed; Walker
wrote about things like you’ll read on Kimberlin’s wikipedia page, as
well as his own dealings with Kimberlin.
Sammy:
Actually, the video cameras prove an assault. And even Aaron admits that he assaulted Kimberlin, but argues he has a defense for it (specifically, self-defense). Well, I guess we’ll find out if that’ll fly in criminal court, Aaron…
A note of caution: “assault” and “battery” are two different things, and not the same thing. Don’t use them interchangeably.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:19 pmHowever what I wrote above, TheBlaze is reporting Aaron was arrested on 2nd degree assault charges for taking Kimberlin’s iPad away from him.
So possibly both? Or are they describing the same thing? I’m guessing this. I’m guessing Kimberlin waited to the weekend, and then used/abused the Peace Order enforcement process, “describing” how Aaron took the iPad away in his affidavit, despite the fact there was already an investigation underwear for that, so he has a perjury defense available should his use/abuse of process be questioned.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:20 pmA criminal “assault” is not the same as a civil tort “assault” either. Don’t use them interchangeably.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:20 pmAnyone have into on the warrant from Sunday?
Kmart is not sure if Kimberlin is reformed.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:22 pmI thought the whole iPad nonsense had been dismissed, and happened before the current Peace Order nonsense.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:26 pmBK, NR and RB are gloating about who will be the nextt they get to send to jail.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:27 pmAnd this, JD, from Occupy,
BREAKING: Incident at #BrettKimberlin ‘s home last night. There was a car chase and police are involved. They got the guy. No more details.
Dana (4eca6e) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:33 pmYeah. Reluctantly, I admit this is so.
I’ll leave it up to the viewer to decide if Aaron feared imminent iPad battery or snatched the iPad for another reason. Regardless, Kimberlin’s tale of the great battery he suffered at the hands of Worthing/Walker is clearly false.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:34 pm151. Comment by Random — 5/29/2012 @ 12:47 pm
Battery?
The iPad assault!
Yes, this iPad:
http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2012/05/how-brett-kimberlin-tried-to-frame-me_2100.html
Part 3: The January 9 Incident.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:38 pmDana – raise your hand if you believe that
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:39 pmPerhaps, but I think the point is… there’s enough there for a criminal trial, and a jury can certainly make these determinations (about the injuries, about Aaron’s defense).
Hence, the arrest.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:39 pmShocking, really, to see timmah coming to the defense of a drug-dealing bomber.
OK, it’s not.
Rob Crawford (6c262f) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:41 pmThere is enough there for a criminal trial?!?!?!?!?
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:43 pmYes, there is. However it’s such a minor incident, I don’t know if it’s really worth prosecuting. But it did occur just outside a court room so there’s that. You really can’t go grabbing things out of people’s hands outside a court room — including things that may contain confidential information.
So the question in my mind, to the degree that I care (it’s not like I like Kimberlin), is did Aaron grab it because he was mad and/or wanted some info on it, including to “prove something” (like whether Kimberlin took his photo, which he may have had a valid reason to want to know, but not legal justification to forcibly collect evidence for) or simply because he was pissed off … or whether he feared being attacked with the iPad used as the weapon.
Which, honestly (and reluctantly), seems like a stretch to me.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:45 pmI guess if you mean a trial for filing false charges, and submitting BS medical documentation of non-existent injuries from being not struck and not decked.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:45 pmYes, of course. You do understand the difference between “trial” and “conviction”, right?
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:45 pmNo, please explain the difference to me. I are not brite enuf 2 unnerstand such things.
Then, explain why you think Kinberlin is reformed.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:48 pmComment by Kman — 5/29/2012 @ 1:19 pm
A note of caution: “assault” and “battery” are two different things, and not the same thing. Don’t use them interchangeably
Imaginary battery, but technical assault? Except that even that is imaginary.
This seems to be the Maryland law: http://www.assaultandbattery.org/maryland/
…if you touch someone else in an unwanted manner that could be perceived as unwanted, offensive, or potentially harmful (whether or not it causes injury), you could be charged with this offense.
Aaron says however:
Specifically, I snatched iPad from him (he offered no resistance) and kept it from him, without ever once making contact with his body. I did not strike his body with my own. I did not push him. I did not wrestle with him. I did not strike him with the iPad as he later alleges.
Actually Aaron perceived he might be under assault when Brett Kimberlin suddenly lifted up that iPaD, WHICH HE PROBABLY WASN’T SURE EVEN actually was an iPad and not some kind of explosive. (till he had a few seconds to think about it.)
You can say that Aaron just simply absolutely did not trust Brett Kimberlin.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:48 pmDoes anyone have info on the warrant sworn out on Sunday?
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:49 pmThere is a legitimate public interest in ensuring that opponents in court processes can’t forcibly grab information out of the others’ hands — because that’s a violation of the person’s intergrity and will per se, because it could seriously undermine their legal interests by causing them to reveal or lose privileged information, and to prevent the escalation of more serious assaults or batteries.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:49 pmHow do we know the arrest was related to the iPad incident?
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:54 pmActually Aaron perceived he might be under assault when Brett Kimberlin suddenly lifted up that iPaD, WHICH HE PROBABLY WASN’T SURE EVEN actually was an iPad and not some kind of explosive.
I remember Aaron writing some such. It didn’t seem that reasonable to me, and I think he’s thought better of it, and is now going with:
Maybe Aaron felt a flash of fear and thought about a bomb. I don’t, however, think Kimberlin is the suicide bomber type. I can’t really see Kimberlin making an explosive iPad and detonating it with himself still in the room.
IF it was a bomb, I hardly think you’d want it in your hands. In the bomber’s hands is about as good as it gets.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:54 pmThe Blaze link says they confirmed with the Clerk that Aaron was arrested on assault charges. Unless something happened in court, it may be related to the iPad incident. That’s good news, in a way, if it means this was a continuation of Kimberlin’s earlier charges against Aaron and Aaron wasn’t held in contempt because of anything that happened today.
I’m not minimizing this — criminal charges are serious — but it’s good if there weren’t new charges from the peace order hearing. Thus, despite the widespread rhetoric about the Judge’s ruling, it may be the peace order complaint was resolved without sanctioning Aaron for what he’s written online. It will be interesting to see if the Judge discussed whether Aaron can blog about Kimberlin in the future.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:55 pmThat’s what TheBlaze is reporting and how they know, I don’t know.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:56 pmApparently Aaron has been taken into custody in Maryland for violating a peace order. The judge said that Aaron “Googled [Kimberlin] 500,000 times” through the Tubes or whatever.
Please consider donating. And stay out of Maryland.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:56 pmOh.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:57 pmExactly. Because that would have been an awful contra-First-Amendment overreach.
That was my original assumption (after reading a few bloggers report that) and it looks like that’s wrong.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:57 pm#196 That’s so 29 seconds ago. 😎
Jay H Curtis (804124) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:58 pmRandom:
The whole “iPad bomb” thing doesn’t pass the laugh test.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:59 pmlol Ha.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 1:59 pm“And stay out of Maryland.”
Not to worry. I never enter states that border the District of Colombia. There’s no telling how far the pollution may have spread.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:01 pmYeah. If Aaron pulled another after-hearing assault today, then he’s got some anger management issues. I hope (for his sake) it relates to the earlier iPad incident.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:01 pmRandom,
I honestly can’t tell because R.S. McCain’s post says Kimberlin claimed “Walker’s continued blogging represented a violation of a “peace order” Kimberlin had obtained against the Virginia attorney.” The post suggests Aaron was held in contempt of the peace order.
Of course, what people assert isn’t the same as what the Judge rules. But everything I’ve seen from people who claim to have been there suggests the arrest came near the end of the peace order hearing or after the hearing concluded. The former suggests a contempt citation; the latter suggests a warrant in a separate case that law enforcement served after the hearing concluded.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:03 pmNo better place to parachute into if you really want to slum it.
And as for getting out?
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:05 pmRule # 5
Never assault people in a court facility in front of a working camera.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:06 pmThe whole “iPad bomb” thing doesn’t pass the laugh test.
Comment by Kman — 5/29/2012 @ 1:59 pm
Duffel bag bombs are silly too.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:07 pmYes, but apparently those who actually called the court — TheBlaze and Hot Air’s commenter novaculus — got version 2.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:07 pmBrett Kimberlin is a convicted vicious bomber who tried to get other bombs set using his design while he was in prison so he could get off. There’s no doubt about that.
The laughable part is that Brett Kimberlin would let a bomb off with himself in the blast radius. The equally laughable part is that that holding the bomb, and taking it away from Kimberlin, would make you safer.
Aaron also said something about being worried Kimberlin took a photo of him. That sounds a lot closer to the truth.
Reluctantly, I must concede that.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:11 pmYeah, well, that’s what I get for assuming skimming the last 5 comments is the same as reading the thread. Where’s that delete key when you need it.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:11 pmRandom – we know they photographed him at the courthouse. They posted it on Breitbartunmasked.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:13 pmI hope that’s true, Random, because I think it’s better for Aaron if these are old charges and not new ones. It’s sounds like that’s the case but there are too many versions going around to be sure.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:13 pmI’m sure Aaron will let us kow what’s up…if he ever gets out of the dungeon.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:16 pm“know” not “kow”.
This hangover is making me miss keystrokes.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:17 pmOh, I think Kimberlin probably did illegally take a photo of Aaron in the courthouse using his iPad. I don’t know it for a fact, but that has the ring of truth to it.
But that isn’t a legal justification for forcefully snatching Kimberlin’s iPad.
I don’t know whether Aaron has convinced himself that he believes he’s telling the truth or not, but I thought his fearing the iPad might be a bomb was a post hoc justification of his actions … and not a particularly believable one unless you hate Kimberlin (easy to do) and like Aaron / free speech defenders (also easy to do). But it’s not reasonable really. I never bought it.
That he feared Kimberlin might hit him with it, which seems to be the more refined version of Aaron’s probably self-defense defense, is more believable … but the onus would be on him to show he believed this. And dislike Kimberlin though I do, the other thing Aaron said — that he thought Kimberlin took a photo of him — is a far more believable motivation. But Aaron isn’t emphasizing this now because he knows it is no legal defense to assault.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:20 pmKevin M @209
Sorry, but that stupid commercial just ran through my mind when I read your “Oh” and I couldn’t help myself. 😎
I agree, we need an “oh, crap, I just made a fool of myself” key. I seem to have a constant need for this.
Jay H Curtis (804124) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:22 pm*probabl
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:22 pmyeRandom,
I think the Hot Air commenter is novaculos, who also posted at Pious Agnostic’s link, above. He suggests this is a new charge that is based on the old iPad charge:
It may be a slim hope but maybe this will prompt the state prosecutor to review the entire case.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:24 pmthe other thing Aaron said — that he thought Kimberlin took a photo of him — is a far more believable motivation.
but Aaron would ahve known he couldn’t keep the Ipad. And he really couldn’t delete the photo. Brett Kimberlin acted like he had some surprise up his sleeve. The surpise was probably the photo.
Aaron might have been afraid that breet Kimberlin was about to take his photo (and then post it all over in a manner so as to threaten him)
Of course it turns out the photo had already been surrepitiously taken, and maybe not by that iPad and not that day..
But this thing that he thought it might have been a bomb is actually possible, because Aaron probably wasn’t really thinking very clearly taht day.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:26 pmRandom – there is not a ring if truth to it. It is a fact. They posted it on their website. The refined self defense defense is no more refined than the false claims of being struck, decked, and suffering injuries requiring medical attention, and having to have the guards hold back the attacker.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:27 pmFurther to:
Or at least try to take a photo of him.
That would explain Aaron’s contention (and “fear”) that Kimberlin raised his iPad. Because of all the 3 justifications Aaron gave for snatching Kimberlin’s iPad — presumably all 3 thought of in real time all at once:
1. (suicide) bomb
2. (expensive high tech) melee weapon
3. camera
… I got to go with Aaron genuinely believing 3 and lying about the others once he realized he’s going to be investigated for criminal assault. Which isn’t to say that Kimberlin didn’t embellish and lie like mad, claiming that he got battered in various ways by Aaron that he most definitely was not.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:28 pmYeah.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:29 pmThe reference to the commissions may be why Ali Akbar tweeted they should know more by 3:30-4:30 PM today. Maybe that’s when the commissioner’s hearing is.
He also tweeted here and here about Breitbart Unmasked, including “Time to sue” at the second link.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:31 pmI agree that any such sworn testimony from Kimberlin would be perjury. And I’m hoping Aaron doesn’t go down that route.
Not that either would be charged for perjury (not enough unambiguous evidence), but still.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:31 pmWas the photo for sure taking from Kimberlin’s iPad as opposed to from someone else’s device?
Either way, my point is that of the 3 things Aaron allegedly feared, that is the one that is by far the most believable. Unfortunately, it’s also the one that provides no legal justification for assault.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:34 pmIt’s a fact question, and the trier of fact could decide it’s not assault to take a camera or iPad from someone’s hands.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:37 pmQuite.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:39 pmAt least he is out. He just tweeted that he is free, but needs to talk to his atty before he says any more.
Dustyn H (ebe03e) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:40 pmHey @Liberty_Chick , your pal @AaronWorthing was arrested in court today. Guess whose next? Suck it bitch!!!
OccupyRebellion
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:41 pmer He being Aaron that is
Dustyn H (ebe03e) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:41 pmThat’s good news, Dustyn (as is the bit about him talking to his attorney).
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:43 pmThey also threatened to “sever” several bloggers, etc …. – Patterico, RSM, Mandy, Loesch.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:43 pmI’m sure that’s just metaphorical, like that fellow from the Saw films.
narciso (3c5948) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:45 pmJust to be clear, I think if Aaron had walked up to Kimberlin and decked him he’d have been morally justified. So I don’t have a moral issue with him grabbing Kimberlin’s iPad/camera and seeing if a photo of him was taken, to harrass him with later, and illegally I might add.
I’m just saying the law isn’t on Aaron’s side if that’s why he did it and further, that the law has a few good bases … since law has to protect the physical integrity and legal interests (including privacy) of the unsavory as well as of overall decent folk; and further, law is designed to prevent minor physical confrontations from potentially instigating larger ones, however morally justified a given minor confrontation may be.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:54 pmIsn’t it also Gainst the rules to photograph people there?
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 2:58 pmYes. No taking pictures in the courthouse.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:00 pmYeah. There have been signs posted to that effect at every court house I’ve ever been or walked by. Which … still doesn’t give people the right to use force to gather evidence of an infraction.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:02 pmQuestion: Do you think lefty blogs would be calmly discussing whether one of their own (former co-blogger no less) was legally justified to do whatever?
Because I don’t. I think the bannings would be running pretty thick.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:06 pmI know I should read all the commnets before asking this question, but can someone give me a rationale for why Aaron would cross over into Maryland and submit himself to the Montgomery County Court’s jurisdiction? Why not just remain in Virginia and keep doing what he was doing? The “Peace Order” isn’t going to cross state lines and be enforced.
Aaron caused some of his own problems here simply by the “need” to confront Kimberlin in open court and make the same case before a Judge about Kimberlin that he and others have been making on the internet for more than a year.
shipwreckedcrew (96a8a6) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:09 pmI don’t think it was to gather evidence. It was to get the raised Ipad away from BK, to be sure.
But If BK raised a device at one, I think one might be worried enought to snatch it.
But that’s snatching an Ipad thrust in front of one by a murderous psychopath, not a punch in the face.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:09 pmShipwrecked – interesting question. what could be done, legally, if he had not been served and simply did not respond to the BS filing?
Anyone familiar with these peace orders? Is this what they were designed for?
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:23 pmHe just tweeted that he is free, but needs to talk to his atty before he says any more.
Two good things. The second would have been a good idea this AM, too.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:24 pmMaybe, but it looks like it may have not made any difference. He apparently wasn’t arrested for that.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:26 pmAccording to a recent comment at McCains:
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:27 pmHeck, I don’t live in Maryland, and I’ll be danged if I’m going to obey their laws.
I already have to obey California laws, and that’s already asking too much.
If I get a restraining order from some court in Maryland, I’m just going to have a good laugh, and toss it in the O-file.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:28 pmBut it appears that Walker was arrested in a new case (5D00279004) for Failure to Obey a Peace Order. The warrant was issued MAY 27, 2012.
Is this an extension of the preliminary peace order issued when it was unopposed in the hearing prior to this one?
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:29 pmAnd people wonder why I have so little faith in the justice system ….
htom (412a17) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:33 pmIf he was arrested for taking Kimberlin’s iPad, is it your position he should have the right to do so?
He may have a legal defense for it; that’s another thing. But as a general matter, if you’re in court and you are my opponent, do you think I can legally grab your iPhone, laptop, or files from your hands?
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:37 pmFailure to obey a Peace Order would be a new charge, so it would get a new case number and a warrant.
Since he was arrested it must be a criminal charge – similar to contempt since what you are doing is failing to obey a court order.
So, the only entity that can prosecute the charge is a state and/or city prosecutor, and I expect these kinds of cases are declined an overwhemling majority of the time.
I’m curious about a process where you can get someone arrested without the involvement of any public official to review the allegations supporting the claim.
shipwreckedcrew (96a8a6) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:42 pmI don’t think that is what htom meant, Random. That seemed to be more of a meta comment on how effed up this whole thing is.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:42 pmJD,
There are too many conflicting reports and I don’t think we know what happened at the hearing or why Aaron was arrested. But I think it’s more likely this will get media attention, especially in the conservative media, and hopefully the coverage and donations will benefit Aaron more than Kimberlin.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:42 pmHere’s a preliminary analysis from someone who gathered info on this quickly and seemed to know what they were talking about.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:44 pmI’m pretty proud of this post. Step up people. Now is the time for action
Auntie Fraud (2f38aa) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:45 pmYeah, I agree with that. I would extend it far beyond the legal system, however, and say that as Fd up as it is (and oh, I know, and have experienced it a bit first hand), it is still an attempt at justice. Most of life isn’t even that.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:46 pmI would go on record that letting any of these frivolous motio s, hearings, peace orders, etc… go unopposed is a lousy idea. If
But it appears that Walker was arrested in a new case (5D00279004) for Failure to Obey a Peace Order. The warrant was issued MAY 27, 2012.
Is true, then the original was a jumping off point for more BS lItigation and lawfare.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:47 pmIf he had to be arrested, I hope it was because Aaron refused to obey a court order not to blog and was cited for contempt. It’s something a Yale Law lawyer would probably do and is the kind of case that’s hard for the media to ignore.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:48 pmHahvahd lawyers suck llama butz
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:50 pmWell that’s such an egregious violation of the first amendment that yeah, I’d hope that too, in a sense, because it wouldn’t stand.
With all due respect [when the wrong arrestee is a conservative], on what planet?
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:51 pm*wronged
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:52 pmWould a lawyer before the bar in Virginia put his license at risk by ignoring court orders in another state?
Pious Agnostic (ee2c24) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:54 pmThis is but a tip of the iceberg when it comes to the totality of complaints these people have filed with employers, bar associations, lawsuits, etc.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:58 pmRandom — when this nonsense first hit the blogs, I wondered if I was one of many victims of a very elaborate prank started by, or to memorialize, Breitbart. That it’s real … thank God no one has been killed yet.
Are you allowed to take a weapon from someone assaulting you? I would hope so! I can see both of you being arrested, but in this series of cases where one side has obviously game-played many of the possible paths, I can see only one arrest. Which should promptly be completely squashed.
Sadly, in today’s legal system, that’s not technically possible like it was in the old days. (When judges would descend on the desk and rip a page out of the log showing the arrest “Mark on the next page that that page has been deleted by order of the court, copy the first three entries on this page onto the next, and the last, and return it to me in twenty minutes for my signature.”)
I can prove it happened … oh, no, I can’t! Only that he ordered a page removed.
htom (412a17) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:58 pmIf the peace order says what it seems to: that all Kimberlin has to show is that he was “in fear of imminent serious bodily harm” as the result of some action of Aaron’s (e.g. Aaron started a car) then really anything goes.
We’ve all seen the movie, along with the clueless authorities …
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:59 pmWhat I’m confused about is was he arrested for:
or:
or does:
?
In which case, if 1 = 2, then what does an arrest for violating the Peace Order even mean? Since you can simply charge him for assault without the Peace order.
Or is it two separate charges, or do they get rolled into one, or huh?
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 3:59 pmSYSTEMIC REFORM NOW
Amphipolis (d3e04f) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:08 pmYes, and if Aaron hadn’t also wrote about his other two allegedly also contemporaneous fears that the iPad was a (presumably suicide) bomb and also a camera to take an illegal picture of him, then I’d be more inclined to believe Aaron thought that Kimberlin was going to sacrifice his iPad to use it as an expensive impromptu, flat-ish melee weapon. But throwing all sorts of explanations for his assault out there strikes me more as grasping at straws.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:09 pmR. S. McCain says Aaron has been released after being arrested for incitement. I don’t know if that charge is correct but, if it is, it sounds like a disorderly conduct or harassment charge. Or maybe a riot or hate crime charge, if Kimberlin is being very creative.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:12 pmRandom – it can’t be 1 and 2, since the iPad BS happened before the existence of the peace order being discussed.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:13 pmRandom,
Maybe Aaron had a host of fleeting thoughts and not one particular thought.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:13 pm“I would go on record that letting any of these frivolous motio s, hearings, peace orders, etc… go unopposed is a lousy idea.”
Hey, I live in California, not Maryland. Don’t vote there, don’t pay taxes there, ain’t never been there, and ain’t planning on going there.
And, I’m not going to follow their state laws.
Period.
Screw ’em.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:15 pmIncitement? Good Allah.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:19 pmIncitement?
"I am Aaron!" (b8ab92) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:22 pmNext thing we’ll know, Aaron will be being watched by the SPLC.
We’ve gone fully Inigo Montoya, here,
narciso (494474) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:28 pmMaybe.
But I’m not sure how well, “I had a host of fleeting thoughts,” will stack up for me in court should I decide to grab my opponents’ papers or device outside of a courtroom under video camera. I could give it a try, I suppose.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:32 pmAh. Good point.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:33 pmHello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You have no authority over me. Prepare to be ignored!
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:36 pmFwiw, I thought it dumb dumb dumb to confront him outside the courtroom. Having said that, I think it is dummer to assume to know how you would react, given what AW has lost, and knowing the violent nasty past of this festering rectal fistula.
JD (bd887a) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:38 pm“Having said that, I think it is dummer to assume to know how you would react…”
Well, I’m pretty sure I’m not going to fly out to Maryland just to contest some half-assed restraining order.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:47 pmI’m not assuming I would have done better.
But I understand why the law does what it does in some cases. I may want to deck a guy outside of court, or grab his camera and prove he took my picture (and delete it or get him charged for it), or whatever. However, the law wants to stop confrontations from getting out of hand, not to mention prevent person A from grabbing opponent B’s confidential info (in a court house!).
That said, I think it’s conceivable Kimberlin baited Aaron into it purposely — and successfully.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:48 pm#rapebarniPadassault
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:52 pmi’m so incited and I just can’t hide it
and it’s totally Mr. Aaron’s fault
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/29/2012 @ 4:56 pmMr. Feets – Just don’t think about sending me the laundry bill for all your incitement.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/29/2012 @ 5:02 pmRe ignoring an order from another state – the order has no effect if you have not submitted yourself to the jurisdiction of that state.
How did Kimberlin effect service on Aaron? A state prosecutor in California can “serve” a subpoena on a witness in Nevada, and be completely powerless to do anything about it when the witness doesn’t show up.
The info I have been able to find says Peace Orders must be served by law enforcement officers. I don’t think MoCo Sheriff’s spend a lot of time heading over into Virginia to serve Peace Orders.
Frankly, Aaron courted this nonsense by feeling the need to cross over into Maryland and confront Kimberlin’s tactics face-to-face. Many here would have counseled him to ignore it.
shipwreckedcrew (96a8a6) — 5/29/2012 @ 5:10 pmBut dude, Aaron’s BLOCKBUSTER STORY!!!!!!!
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 5:20 pmSwc- can lawyers simply ignore the Courts?
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 5:38 pmThat was kind of douchey, random.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 5:38 pmHe wasn’t sure what the hell was going on. Kimberlin got angry and in a raised and angry voice said ‘An I got it! [Aaron’s identity], raising his ipad. Aaron panicked and grabbed it and then gave it to the police. In the time between grabbing it and police showing up, he realized that his initial fear that there was some kind of bomb was very unlikely. But this was the first time Aaron had met Brett, who is a convicted multiple bomber.
He simply panicked.
I admit it wasn’t a good move to be anywhere near Brett if he could help it. And it’s not a good move to be anywhere near Maryland, either. Apparently there is no law there.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 5:39 pmActually, the caps were in the original, and before most of this went down.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 5:40 pmHe was trying to bring media attention to what Brett has done, Random. Yes, he promoted the story as a blockbuster.
If you’re suggesting that Aaron went there in order to get good blog material, I think that is unfair.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 5:42 pmYeah, that’s possible. I’m not saying I buy it, but it is possible.
Aaron seems to have a dramatic streak to his nature: “my BLOCKBUSTER STORY”, his arguing with the judge, his travelling to Maryland to deal with Kimberlin in person, even his claims of fears about an iPad “bomb” or “club”.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 5:47 pmGranted. Although the word “my” in front of “BLOCKBUSTER STORY” is absolutely a quote right below the Masthead of his site to this day.
His blockbuster. To also be fair, that’s how he put it.
No, that isn’t my suggestion. It’s near what you said: that he’s pretty dramatic/quick to emote/act first, think later.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 5:52 pmSo, this warrant swore out on Sunday, when the Courts were closed, right before Memorial Day, and right before this morning’s hearing. Incitement?
This peace order process, as a whole, seems to be designed for something other than what it is being used for here. The preliminary peace order seems to have been a stepping stone to then claim that it was violated, and give the final order more of a likelihood of being upheld.
It also seems that the Judge was woefully uninformed, not knowing basics like google hits, google alerts’ blogs, etc … And this will embolden them, as they already named who they plan on attacking next.
Kmart still isn’t sure if Kimberlin is reformed.
Wasn’t the iPad fiasco already adjudicated?
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 5:58 pmHim telling his story was his blockbuster, coupled with video proof of the falsity of the claimed decking, striking, and lack of anything that would cause the claimed injuries.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 5:59 pmNo one is challenging that, and you keep saying this as if you don’t think we already know that Aaron called his experience “my story”.
I’m not understanding your point.
But anyway, continue kicking a guy when he’s down. Don’t let me stop you.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:00 pmBut some peole apparently are more concerned with the minutia of AW’s actions defending himself than with the abhorrent behavior of a convicted bomber, perjurer, and drug smuggler.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:00 pmMaybe it’s just me, but WaterGate is blockbuster. The Kennedy assassination. Jeffrey Dahlmer maybe. Obama’s association with Ayers. ACORN’s vote fraud. Even Monica and Presidential impeachment.
Brett Kimberlin?
I guess I just don’t assign a lot of importance to him. And no offense, but something bad happening to Aaron doesn’t turn a story into “blockbuster”.
Since he wrote that the story’s gotten bigger, with SWATting prosecutors and major bloggers/CNN reporters. So now we may be headed into blockbuster territory ….
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:04 pm*
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:05 pmreporterscontributorsJD — it has nothing to do with him being a lawyer. He’s being named as a defendant in a Peace Order in his capacity as a private citizen. It can be effective without him ever appearing. But it is “effective” in what sense? What can Kimberlin do if Aaron simply chooses to stay in Virginia.
A lawsuit is IRRELEVANT until it is served on the opposing party. The service must then be reported back to the court where the matter is pending.
None of that happened here. What happened is that Aaron decided to get in his car and drive across the Potomac to Montgomery County and confront Kimberlin — which, IMO, was beyond Kimberlin’s wildest dreams.
I think what Kimberlin expected was what he wrote last week — a snarkly piece about Aaron not showing up for some scheduled hearing, and calling Aaron names.
Aaron did him a favor by coming to confront him — it was a classic “no-win” situation.
In the time I’ve been reading Aaron here, and now back at his own blog, I’ve come to form more of an opinion that his conduct lacks a certain level of maturity and healthy “distance” from which to have a better perspective. He’s let himself be drawn in as an actor in the charades being played by Kimberlin and his pals, rather than maintaining his perspective as a commentator on their nonsense. Rarely does anything good come from that.
shipwreckedcrew (96a8a6) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:07 pmI know better than to respond with what I’d really like to say sometimes.
JD, I think some are trying to explain how they could take Brett on with more polish than Aaron.
And yeah, some could.
Yet they aren’t. Go figure.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:09 pmNot quite accurate. Paterico was SWATed almost a year ago.
Jay H Curtis (804124) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:11 pmFair enough, swc. Since IANAL (thank god) I do not know what is and is not acceptable to ignore. Here comes a dumb question – why wouldn’t the Marlyland Court throw it out when the target is a VA resident blogging from VA, or demand proof that they attempted service?
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:14 pmIMO, the point of Kimberlin’s exercise here is to simply draw attention to himself and to make Aaron jump through hoops. I don’t think Kimberlin expects Aaron to spend a day in jail from anything that has happened between them, or that he’ll suffer any conviction.
He’s getting what he wants from the process, not the outcome. Aaron has shown up in Court. Aaron has had a confrontation with him in a public area. Aaron has been arrested and handcuffed. Aaron may have to make an appearance connected to his arrest — not certain of that because I doubt the prosecutor will file anything based on Kimberlin’s complaint. Aaron is the subject of a bona fide — if legally laughable — “peace order.”
Every time he writes about Aaron now, he can start out his post with this litany of transgressions, in the same way that Aaron and others start out their posts about Kimberlin with a litany of his more serious transgressions.
But its the same game. Kimberlin lives for it though.
Reminds me of the old adage about starting a fight with a newspaper editor — don’t get into a publicity battle with someone who buys ink by the barrel.
shipwreckedcrew (96a8a6) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:15 pmI’m not more concerned about that, but everybody here including me has already talked about that.
I’m taking exception to the notion that the government doesn’t have a proper interest in discouraging people from grabbing information off of other people outside of court rooms.
As I said, I think Aaron got peeved because, well, Brett Kimberlin. And he probably was freaked out that people were taking surreptitious pictures of him. So he grabbed Kimberlin’s laptop, fearing that.
I found his “grabbed it beause was concerned it’s a bomb” thing off-putting because, to me, it looked like a transparent attempt to evade responsibility for a minor charge. When he added that he was worried that it might be used as a club or something … well, that makes more sense, but the first claim tainted that one for me.
And no, I don’t think conservatives who lose their cool over leftist criminals should make up stories to get out of responsibility. It’s understandable, but I see no reason to throw unambiguous support behind Aaron.
If he was arrested for his blogging activities or Twitter hashtag, then that’s terrifically unconstitutional and he should be defended by everyone on the right. If it’s because he lost his cool and unwisely grabbed Kimberlin’s iPad, well … he shouldn’t ought to have done that. He can make his defense, but I’m not going to say I believe it when I don’t.
I might have believed one rationale, or maybe two, but three is pushing it.
That said: the big story is Kimberlin’s harassment of Aaron, including using the legal process, and possibly successfully baiting Aaron to do something dumb outside of the court room. That plus the SWATing, the authorities’ anaemic response, and the media’s silence, even when a major network’s contributor and well-known blogger was a victim, not to mention an Assitant Deputy DA and media critic.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:15 pmJD, I take offense to being compared to Brett Kimberlin. I can’t help being the way I am, but I don’t deserve that!
a festering rectal fistula (ee2c24) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:15 pmAaron is the subject of a bona fide — if legally laughable — “peace order.”
This was going to happen regardless of whether or not he showed up, no?
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:16 pmActually, he was drawn in because a penniless man needed advice. He was drawn in for being a lawyer. Then these thugs outted him and began calling his workplace and saying maybe islamic terrorists might bomb him.
So Aaron showed up to the hearing where Brett claimed he needed Aaron’s testimony. He wanted his name sealed because he had good reason to value his anonymity.
And he succeeded at getting that done.
Then he made the mistake of talking back to Brett when Brett told him he better leave him alone. He wanted Brett to admit the subpoena was in bad faith.
It was a mistake, but he was not really a commentator. He was has commented on his experience, but that not really the primary role.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:16 pmJD — they are only effective for 6 months. It would simply stay on the MD court books, unserved and unenforced, until it expired by its own terms. No judge or commissioner would ever take notice of it until there is an action filed to enforce its terms, and both parties came within the jurisdication of the court.
shipwreckedcrew (96a8a6) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:17 pmThat is not correct.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:18 pmshipwreckedcrew, you put well what I meant to say, but haven’t found all the right words for:
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:20 pmAnd there was.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:20 pmI’m taking exception to the notion that the government doesn’t have a proper interest in discouraging people from grabbing information off of other people outside of court rooms.
Congrats. You are winning an argument with yourself.
If he was arrested for his blogging activities or Twitter hashtag,
He was arrested for incitement. For blogging the truth about Brett Kimberlin.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:20 pmPut it this way. When William Buckley made a fist and said he’d like to punch Noam Chomsky, who was in his studio at the moment, in the nose, he didn’t later make up 4 different excuses of varying plausibility for why he did that.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:22 pmDo you have a cite for this, JD? Because, while that’s what I thought originally, I’m now going off of TheBlaze article which said he was arrested for 2nd degree assault. Alternatively, I’ve heard it was for violating a Peace Bond.
Even if he was arrested for what you say, my point still stands, but of course that may come to nothing, just as the Buckley-Chomsky “threat” came to nothing.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:25 pmWe get it, Random.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:25 pmIt seems that any time you tell the truth about an outrageous person, anyone who is outraged (or fake outrage) is now your fault. In other words, you do not really have freedom of speech. you only have freedom to speak about non outrages, which is no freedom at all as no one cares about that.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:26 pmNo joy in the pancake house tonight.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:26 pmDRJ posted this above
UPDATE 6:25 p.m. ET: Sources say that blogger Aaron Walker has been released from custody in Rockville, Maryland. He was charged with “incitement,” but released on his own recognizance. Readers are encouraged to donate to the National Bloggers Club to help support Aaron’s defense against Brett Kimberlin.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:27 pmNo, that was Gore Vidal, and Vidal as loathsome a nazgul, only called him a nazi, didn’t threaten Buckley’s family, hadn’t threatened other law enforcement, or planted bombs, or impersonated law enforcement officials,
narciso (494474) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:27 pmWell, I’ve seen all sorts of claims on what Aaron was charged with. Other than being more recent than the other claims, I have no particular reason to believe that one’s correct.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:29 pmAh, yes, you are right. I remember him getting pissed at Chomsky too.
I was probably just projecting, since I’d have been more likely to slug Chomsky. 😉
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:31 pmKimberlin Express
Colonel Haiku (853a08) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:31 pmshould be the Highway to Hell
not road to riches
lefty pantywaists
Colonel Haiku (853a08) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:37 pmright to not be offended?
they’re blight on this land
“This was going to happen regardless of whether or not he showed up, no?”
Then don’t show up.
I wouldn’t waste my time responding to a restraining order like that, unless they were trying to shake me down for some cash (pay court costs or whatever). Then I might get interested.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:37 pmYes, we should ignore the people that have talked to AW, Random. Much better to speculate about motives in an incident that has already had the BS charges dismissed.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:38 pmnothin’ but white trash
Colonel Haiku (853a08) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:39 pmsaid goddamn teh kimberlin
eff him where he breathes
I hate to be the skunk at the picnic, but there is something that has been bothering me about Aaron and his claims since I read it the last couple days. And I read this at Kimberlin’s site, Breitbart Unmasked, so I’m taking into consideration the source, but what the post said sounds pretty plausible — more so than what Aaron has claimed IMO.
And this involves the claim that Aaron and his wife lost their jobs because of Kimberlin’s “threats” against them, and their employer’s fear that Kimberlin and his associates would try to harm them there given his background.
What is posted at the BU site is an explanation that Aaron and his wife lost their jobs at a family-owned-and-operated home health care agency when someone — likely Kimberlin and his crew — informed his employer that their employee Aaron Walker, writing under the name “Aaron Worthing” was behind the “EveryoneDrawMohammed” day, taunting Islamic extremists to make an issue with him over it, telling them he was located in Manassas, Virginia, and otherwise making himself a target for retaliation. There is no disputing that some of the things Aaron wrote about “Draw Mohammed” were pretty damn provacative.
The claim at Breitbart Unmasked is that Aaron and his wife were terminated because his conduct made their workplace — and his co-workers — potential targets for retaliation regarding a specific topic where violent Islamic extremists had killed people in the past in various parts of the world. Their claim is that the employer could no longer employ Aaron and his wife for this reason, and had nothing to do with any “threats” made against Aaron by Kimberlin.
Kimberlin did publish Aaron’s work and home addresses — which would give anyone intent on doing Aaron harm over the “draw Mohammed” issue an easy path to find him. And knowing that to be the case, Kimberlin’s conduct is despicable — and consistent with the way he has led most of the rest of his life.
But, I can’t find anything that supports Aaron’s claim that he and his wife lost their jobs because of fear at his work place of Kimberlin based on his past.
shipwreckedcrew (96a8a6) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:40 pmWell the warrant as posted on the Maryland District Court case search website has the warrant issued for “PEACE ORDER: FAIL TO COMPLY” so I would assume this is the charge, rather than incitement or another go-around on the assault charge
Freddo (52090f) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:41 pmAn action to enforce the terms of a Peace Order is meaningless until both parties to the Peace Order are made subject to the jurisdiction of the Court.
That happens by personal service of a summons, or by voluntarily making an appearance in court.
A MD court could not make effective service of its summons in Virginia — you can’t go across state lines to serve process.
Aaron presented himself to the MD court, and that started his troubles.
shipwreckedcrew (96a8a6) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:46 pmSwc – I suspect there is a kernel of truth to that. But I also suspect that it is impossible to draw the line between where fear of random faceless aggrieved Mo fans ends, and fear of Bret Kimberlin begins. it could be A and B, and is likely both. Except one is a more specific, and immediate threat, with a history of bombing and violence. So, there is that.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:47 pmIs dueling still legal in Maryland? Can’t Aaron just slap the bastard across the face with a white glove and ask him who his seconds are? Or is he worried that Brett will choose “SWAT” as weapons of choice?
I guess I’m thinking this has fallen into the absurd….
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:48 pmThe whole Draw Mo thingie is something they use to justify their hatred and harassment. They could care less about that, it just gives them an excuse.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:48 pmIt’s a lot easier to suggest, even “in jest”, someone else should physically fight a violent sociopath, than it is to do it yourself.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:56 pmYet … “my BLOCKBUSTER STORY”!!!
Oh. Right.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 6:58 pmShipwreckedcrew,
In all honesty I think you have a point about his employer.
I think it was a twofold problem, actually. I think they were actually worried about Kimberlin’s actions, but were also worried about the way Kimberlin and associates were framing it as all about ‘hating Muslims’ (and to be clear, Aaron’s blog was not at all about hating Muslims… it was about supporting human rights, even if some extremists don’t like it).
Aaron’s ‘come get me’ post was not the way I’d say it.
The vast majority of verifiable information I know, as presented on that Kimberlin supporting site, is not only inaccurate but would often require one to provide private information in order to prove inaccurate.
My impression, however, is that his workplace was actually in fear of Kimberlin and his actions in the present.
I hasten to add that Aaron went to Maryland to stop his address and employer and other private details from becoming public. He went there and successfully got that sealed. Brett then repeatedly tried to put it in the public record, causing repeated sealings of motions.
So you can see how Aaron was between a rock and a hard place.
And at that point, all Aaron had done was help Seth with some advice, as far as I can recall.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:00 pmYes, they lie, about Quayle, about voting machines,
narciso (494474) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:07 pmabout the unfortunate death of Connell, as Seth
found out,
There have been a huge volume of weird sockpuppets and impossible to trace or even keep up with harassment.
They have been referencing family and posting violent videos and maps to where people live next to countdown clocks, but stopping just shy of being the kind of threat law enforcement is going to help someone like Aaron with.
I ask folks cut Aaron a little slack, though I think SWC and DRJ have provided a lot of useful insight. And SarahW’s repeated drumbeat of ‘get a lawyer’ is so valuable.
I had this link convenient as I sent it to someone who asked for a timeline: https://twitter.com/#!/xtimuating
Seems like nothing, right? Just someone calling others names and then vanishing.
But if you click the link, it goes to a page called “mexican cartel chainsaw execution video”.
I do not recommend anyone actually follow such links. It probably leads to malware or something. And of course the courts will never take my side if I say this is a threat. He didn’t say he was going to do anything. He simply referenced it. The message I get from this, or from someone saying they know where someone lives, or saying they know what your dog’s name is, is that they can get to you, and if you don’t shut up…
And the sad thing is, I don’t think I’ve noticed 99% of this kind of thing. I have no idea what that Unmasked dude or Occupy This and That are saying. I don’t read the random new accounts that pop up. Why would I?
And proving Brett Kimberlin or Neal Rauhauser is responsible for any of that? I assume it’s impossible.
This is what Aaron is standing against. Imperfectly. But at least he’s standing.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:12 pmOK Dustin — I accept the context you have provided is true about why Aaron felt the need to go to MD to deal with Kimberlin’s antics.
But, I think the issue of his employment termination has more to do with fearing Islamic extremists than fearing Kimberlin.
I noted in Aaron’s story that at about the same time the employment action was taken, he and his wife were visited by a Fairfax detective who Aaron described as being involved in terrorist investigations. My guess would be he was part of an FBI JTTF (Joint Terrorism Task Force). Aaron wrote he was there to talk about a letter Kimberlin had written.
I doubt Kimberlin wrote a letter threatening Aaron, but more likely he wrote a letter concerning Aaron’s postings about “Draw Mo”, and his taunting of extremists to come find him.
shipwreckedcrew (96a8a6) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:15 pm“Ah, yes, you are right. I remember him getting pissed at Chomsky too.”
It’s a little off topic, but…Buckley threatened to smack Chomsky too (conditionally).
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:16 pmYeah, I think that’s right.
And then the worry is that the bomber Kimberlin might do something under the hopes people say ‘Muslims did it’.
However, I do not think his employer feared Islamic terrorists as much as you seem to think they did. I think they were worried about the actual terrorist who was angry with Aaron.
To be clear, I’m speculating about as much as you are.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:20 pmMaybe, but:
(1) If Kimberlin is trying to out him to the world so the Islamic extremists can get him, is that a distinction without a difference?
(2) Convicted bomber
(3) Suspected murderer
and now:
(4) SWATting
Random (25bdaf) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:20 pmAh! See, despite is too-much-for-me Catholicism, I knew there was a reason I liked him.
Did he blame it on Chomsky’s book-pistol-gas-releasing-camera-phone?
Random (25bdaf) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:23 pmGood evening. I’m home from work and can now comment.
I’m very sorry for Aaron Walker. This has got to be a nightmare. I’m going to send the bloggers’ defense fund a little something tonight, and I hope they get him a lawyer and a gag.
The non-profits are, I think, the main vulnerability for Kimberlin; if you have time to look at the 990s for JTMP and VR, please do.
If anyone can find paperwork for the various “campaigns” listed on VR’s website, I would be very pleased to know about it. I’ve been looking, and haven’t found anything. This may be attributable to my atrocious google-fu.
Dianna (f12db5) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:26 pmKimberlin is obviously reformed.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:27 pm. My guess would be he was part of an FBI JTTF (Joint Terrorism Task Force). Aaron wrote he was there to talk about a letter Kimberlin had written.
This has been a convenient ruse for them. At one point, they noted that AW would clearly be targeted my Muslim radicals, and then used that same document to repeatedly try to outa him, by name and address.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:29 pmBuckley went off on Vidal, because Vidal called Bill a crypto-Nazi (or something like that). Bill called him a queer too (right on television!), which was funnier than hell.
Chomsky said he lost his temper at times, and Bill said don’t try it with me…or else (paraphrase). Then they both laughed…in a strained sort of way.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:29 pmhttp://dailycaller.com/2012/05/28/veterans-overwhelmingly-support-romney-over-obama/
Waaaaaaaaaaaay off topic, but wheelers/nishi is a liar.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:36 pmWhat about active duty military?
I’m not saying Obama’s popular with the military — I’m ex-military and I don’t like him much, after all — but I could imagine a skewing effect. For example, veterans leaving the military, energized politically, in protest over Obama.
Those willing to serve under him might have different feelings.
Random (25bdaf) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:47 pmshipwreckedcrew,
As Dustin said above, I think Aaron made an appearance through counsel in Maryland in Kimberlin’s court case because he was trying to keep Kimberlin from finding out and publicly revealing his true identity. At that time he was still known only as “Aaron Worthing.”
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:47 pm“I ask folks cut Aaron a little slack”
Surely.
But, he has been kinda acting like a dope, by all reports.
Trying to grab some guy’s property away? In a court facility?? In front of a camera???
Not groovy.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:51 pmSheridan
@OccupyRebellion
@IrishTea1 Get back on your knees nasty c@nt and continue sucking on Breitbart’s dead c@ck.
Sheridan
@OccupyRebellion
@IrishTea1 Now Pat says oh well I wasn’t really technically swatted.
Sheridan
@OccupyRebellion
@IrishTea1 Patterico was never swatted. Proven fact that he never filed a police report.
1 hour ago via web
Sheridan
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:51 pm@OccupyRebellion
@IrishTea1 A diseased filthy C@NT who defends criminals & siding with people who kept the swatter information from the man who was swatted.
2 hours ago via web
What about active duty military?
I haven’t seen any polls. Have you? I have never seen active duty poll Dem, have you?
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 7:54 pmEveryone is entitled to their opinion about what Aaron has done and what has happened to him. But it’s interesting that, in a way, he’s getting more “benefit of the doubt” from liberals like Popehat than from conservatives here.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:05 pmKimberlin is obviously reformed.
Comment by JD — 5/29/2012 @ 7:27 pm
He needs to be. I doubt he could earn any cigarettes, at all, in prison, anymore.
nk (875f57) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:15 pmrepsac3 — Thanks for the link. You are right; it looks as if the blog mobbing of Kimberlin is what caused the judge to rule in Kimberlin’s favor. LOL.
Maha @ mahablog
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:17 pmThere are legal defenses to doing so.
And it’s proven that Brett was using the ipad unlawfully, as you cannot lawfully take photos of people in that courthouse, which he was doing.
Aaron freely gave the ipad to law enforcement and asked that they prevent Kimberlin from unlawfully keeping that unlawfully taken photo. Unfortunately, they were unable to find the photo on an ipad, one of the easiest devices to operate on the planet, and thus Brett was able to keep the unlawful photo and show it to us at a later date.
I think Aaron was justified to fear that the ipad was either going to be used to strike Aaron physically, and I can see a good faith but short lived fear that if a bomber is pulling gizmo out it might be a bomb or a detonator program on an ipad. I have to admit I would do my best to avoid being within 100 miles of Brett because I think he is extremely dangerous. I have no idea what he would do, but if he made a sudden movement it could be misinterpreted as an attack.
Anyway, I don’t think Aaron did anything wrong with the ipad itself.
I do cringe when I read about accounts of Aaron’s interactions with the judge, even if I think the judge was shamefully uninformed and I’d be biting my tongue a lot myself. But I wasn’t there. I suspect Aaron got frustrated with some injustice such as (a guess) Brett convincing the court about untrue things.
Aaron’s learned a painful lesson and I think he could use support. But it’s times like this that people learn who their friends are.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:18 pmRandom is right to point to how Aaron pimps his “blockbuster story” (Aaron’s words) as if this was Watergate. This evening in one of his tweets, he compares his jailing to the imprisonment of Martin Luther King.
It’s that kind of grandstanding that really really turns people off. He’s got to learn to stop it.
Kman (073043) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:18 pmOne can get the impression that Aaron has doubled down on some tactics here that have not gone well. But time will tell if Kimberlin’s affidavit regarding his claim that the temporary peace order was violated contains Kimberlin’s usual fantasy creations – and whether or not Kimberlin has exposed himself.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:21 pmBrett Kimberlin is no longer attractive as a punk or prison b***h. (Just to make it clear.)
Which would give the punk/b***h more time to file lawsuits. Hmmm.
nk (875f57) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:22 pmGiven your own histrionics, Kman, you might be just a bit quieter about the word “grandstanding.”
You might also learn to be charitable to those in distress.
Either would seem most unlikely, again, given your history.
Simon Jester (9dfff7) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:23 pmAll right, I don’t get that, telling the truth, is equivalent to harrassment, there are court cases, photos, cash transactions records.
narciso (494474) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:24 pmKmart – do you have enough info to determine if Kimberlin has reformed yet?
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:24 pmPopehat does have the tactic down straight, lawfare, is what the Gitmo bar practiced against
narciso (494474) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:27 pmthe US Goct.
This is an impressive post from David Hogberg about the case today.
DRJ’s link to Popehat is also a must read.
Kman’s comments are not relevant. He cannot resist personal attacks on Aaron.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:28 pmDRJ — Unfortunately, you are correct about the amount of support from fellow conservatives. So far, we have heard unsubstantiated rumor, innuendo, speculation and just plain old wild assed guesses about what happened and why. We have even seen people reading Brietbartunmasked and giving credence to the statements made their. Rather a strange turn of events, that.
I, personally, will reserve judgement on the question of whether Aaron acted foolishly until after we hear his side of the story. In the mean time, I will be praying for him, his family and all the other innocents who have been affected by this train wreck swirling around BK.
Jay H Curtis (804124) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:29 pmnarciso,
“peace order” is don’t go close enough to create a fear of assault. I have no clue what this is about. Aaron?
nk (875f57) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:30 pmThe peace order came afterward, based on this bogus claim, honestly does actual evidence not matter anymore,
narciso (494474) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:33 pmRiiight. If only Aaron could show me the light about proper civil discourse…..
I’m sorry, Dustin, but I’m not the only one here (and elsewhere) turned off by Aaron’s approach to this. And as someone who has been on the receiving end of Brett Kimberlin and associates, I think Aaron is actually making matters worse.
Kman (073043) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:36 pmGood link, Dustin. It seems the judgey person was rTher ignorant of twitter, the innertubes, google alerts, etc ….
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:36 pmIf this is a direct quote from the judge today, that is quite an indictment of Maryland’s judiciary.
I don’t understand what he means by ‘freak out in Oklahoma’. Perhaps he thinks the Oklahoma judges who respect free speech are freakish.
Aaron wanted this media exposure of the injustice Kimberlin did to help trigger reforms to policy as well as encourage law enforcement to do something about a proven crime.
He very much cared where it went. I don’t think the judge has any basis for what he’s saying. It sounds like he’s taking everything Neal Rauhauser and Brett Kimberlin compiled and blaming Aaron for it!
Does the judge not understand the internet? Rauhuaser and Kimberlin could be astroturfing comments. Or there could be idiots who are agitated by Kimberlin to the point where they said something stupid. I recall Aaron deleting one comment like that! He’s responsible for stuff he actively opposes? If that’s the case, then any liar in Maryland can simply post threats to themselves and censor any critic.
I fear the wrong lesson is being learned.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:38 pmEff off, kmart. Reformed yet?
Obsess much?
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:39 pmBTW,
First Amendment protection is complicated. Public officials, ok. Public figures who have put themselves in the limelight, ok. People whom you have put in the limelight, no, including convicted criminals.
nk (875f57) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:39 pmYup, Kman. He got in his time machine, he traveled backward in time 2 days to May 17, and wrote that 28,000 word opus.
That’s what he did.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe you should learn the facts about things before hitting that “Submit Comment” button?
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:40 pmGuys, I have a new post up about all this, which will hopefully clarify a few things.
Since some people need things clarified.
I’m looking at you, Kman.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:41 pmKman couldn’t do a better job defending Brett’s side of this if he were actively affiliated with him.
But I know he isn’t because he publicly criticized Ron Brynaert like Ron Brynaert told Joe Brooks to “diss” Ron deceptively, as though that crew takes shots at eachother in bad faith or something.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:43 pmPerhaps because I’m more attuned to dramatic irony, I read (present tense) these remarks as more self-deprecating humor, made by exaggeration?
Dianna (f12db5) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:44 pmWith respect, I can tell the truth about anyone.
And Kimberlin is a topic of great public interest.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:45 pmSince some people need things clarified.
I’m looking at you, Kman.
You assume a desire for honesty and clarification that does not exist.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:47 pmThe truth is a perfect defense. “Public interest” was held invalid by SCOTUS about fifty years ago and I believe it’s still the law.
nk (875f57) — 5/29/2012 @ 8:50 pmWell, I guess I get a B-, nk.
Still, I think Brett is a topic of great public interest. The public figure thing has always bugged me because you can simply make someone a public figure. I think Brett already was one, given the Time Magazine Article, his websites, the book deal, the felonies and bombs and all that. But now we see hundreds of blogs and several huge ones are talking about him and he’s a public figure.
While I’m not unhappy about that, it’s a strange standard for when defamation requires actual malice.
Fortunately, one can just tell the truth and never have to worry about it. Or their personal opinions, which in 49 states in this country is protected by the first amendment.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:04 pmNo, we cannot make somebody into a public figure. The person, himself, has to walk into the limelight.
nk (875f57) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:09 pmA person can be a public figure for a particular situation. In this case, for example, Kimberlin’s “peace order” against Aaron. We can criticize that, all the ways from Sunday as concerns Kimberlin. The judge is a public figure. We can make fun of his uncut hair and unpolished shoes.
nk (875f57) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:13 pmIf you are saying that I have been speculating and trying to sort through the trickle of contradictory information, I’ll be the first to admit that. Of course, I’m hardly the only one here, and I think you know that.
Kman (073043) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:13 pmThe judge is a public *official*.
nk (875f57) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:14 pmThe others haven’t taken their turn as spokes nozzle for Kimberlin, kmart.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:15 pmI appreciate the explanation, nk.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:19 pmPopehat’s lead blogger, Ken, is a good bloke. Plus, I’m not sure he’s an unabashed lefty. To the degree he is, he’s more of an old school Dem like before the nutters took over.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:32 pmYou can read them that way, but I think you’re reading yourself into it.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:42 pmnk is correct. Not surprising, as he is all lawyerly and such.
A “limited purpose public figure”.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:44 pmWe get it, random. Seriously.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:44 pmAnd I would give you an A not B-, Dustin.
Lawyers stretch the envelope. You did good.
Yesterday’s precedent was yesterday. Today, your argument is the precedent. Until the next argument.
Common law.
Although you guys, the “you guys”, are always complaining about it. 😉
nk (875f57) — 5/29/2012 @ 9:51 pmJay H Curtis at 363:
Fortunately, I feel no need to justify my analysis to a shallow thinker like you.
Whether I’m commenting on Aaron and Kimberlin, Zimmerman and Martin, or two Border Patrol Agents rightly convicted of criminal conduct, I prefer to have ALL the information available and make credibility determinations for myself rather than what others think.
Maybe you prefer an echo chamber for your deep thinking — that would explain a lot.
shipwreckedcrew (b14677) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:26 pmAnyhoo, the arrested for second degree assault story is totally false, so a lot of the above discussion is merely academic.
Random (fba0b1) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:29 pmIt is totally false since that bogus tempted up charge has already been dismissed.
JD (318f81) — 5/29/2012 @ 10:30 pm101. 107.
Comment by SPQR — 5/29/2012 @ 11:46 am
The Final Order is obviously prepared by Kimberlin, is grammatically incoherent and does not prohibit the conduct that Aaron is accused of violating.
Comment by DRJ — 5/29/2012 @ 11:54 am
Also, why do you think Kimberlin prepared it? It looks to me like it might be a standard form.
It’s mostly boilerplate (and doesn’t cover at all blogging or communicating to third parties or the public) but there are afew woirds typed in.
I think most likely Brett Kimberlin did not type that in, but orally complained and someone really ignorant typed in a few words.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/30/2012 @ 12:48 pmI don’t think the judge or the judge’s clerk would have allowed Brett Kimberlin to type on the court’s computer.
The parts added are in ALL CAPS and the first item appears to have been truncated (maybe because the software only allowed a certain numbers of characters in that field. These court orders apparently are so routinized that nobody
even expects them to make grammatical or syntactical sense) Usually nobody looks at the exact wording of these peace orders, I guess, and TECHNICALLKY, THEY ARE PROBABLY LEGALLY DEFECTIVE.
You’d think this was a document used in a foreclosure proceeding or something!!
It says:
the court makes the following findings:
That sentence might be somewhat special to this.
A 1. That there is clear and convincing evidence that within 30 days before the filing of the Petition, the Respondent committed the following act(s):
Placed Person Eligible for relief in fear of imminent serious bodily harm: COUNTLESS NUMBER OF BLOGS EITHER THREATENING DEATH
The words starting with countless were no doubt typed in (and whoever did this, by the way, didn’t even bother to change “Person Eligible for relief” to “Brett Kimberlin” or even “PETITIONER”
Now where there’s an either, an or must inevitably follow, but it is missing, as well as all the other words that should follow the word or .
That was probably not intentionally left out by Brett Kimberlin. He’d rather have been armed with something specific.
It also says he shall not enter the residence of petitioner at ANYWHERE
Somebody didn’t know the address and/or Brett Kimberlin didn’t want his address in a court document. But obviously, there’s supposed to be actually a particular address there. An actual specific location he’s supposed to avoid. Same thing with the place of employment of the PETITIONER, which is at ANYWHERE
And the Comments:
THREATS
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/30/2012 @ 1:16 pmCOND#1-NO ELECTRONIC CONTACT