Patterico's Pontifications

5/15/2012

L.A. Times: Obama vs. Romney = Amiable Occasional Pothead vs. Scissor-Wielding Homophobic Bully

Filed under: Dog Trainer,General — Patterico @ 7:24 am

David Horsey at the L.A. Times:

Sure, you may know which man — Mitt Romney or Barack Obama — you want to see running the country, but which one would you have wanted to know in high school?

We learned four years ago that young Barack was a laid-back, not overly studious kid who loved basketball and occasionally smoked a little weed. The kids at Punahou, the prestigious Honolulu prep school Obama attended, never expected their amiable but seemingly unmotivated classmate to one day become the most powerful man on the planet.

. . . .

[I]f you were a certain type of student at Cranbrook back in 1965, the idea of Mitt Romney getting any kind of power over people would have been frightening.

. . . .

Romney pulled together a pack of boys and went to Lauber’s room, where they tackled him and pinned him down. As Lauber, with tears streaming down his cheeks, screamed for help, Romney pulled out scissors and chopped away at the kid’s hair.

If we’re going to keep talking about the dog-eating days of yore, can we at least get it right, Horsey? Obama did some cocaine too:

“Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it,” Obama wrote in a book long before running for Senate. “Junkie. Pothead. That’s where I’d been headed: the final, fatal role of the young would-be black man.”

It doesn’t make for such a nice, neat contrast, of course, to mention the cocaine use. It’s just more factually accurate.

Which is better? Factually accurate? Or a distortion that fits a narrative?

David Horsey and the editors of the L.A. Times have made their choice!

270 Responses to “L.A. Times: Obama vs. Romney = Amiable Occasional Pothead vs. Scissor-Wielding Homophobic Bully”

  1. Amiable occasional pothead parasite on the productive versus a scissor-wielding homophobic teen with great accomplishments.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  2. As always, it’s not about supporting Obama specifically as how it makes the supporters feel about themselves by supporting Obama.

    That’s how the jaw dropping hypocrisy goes on. My Lord, wait until the Fall.

    As for Romney, at least he didn’t have terrorist friends as a grown man.

    Simon Jester (552af6)

  3. As always, it’s not about supporting Obama specifically as how it makes the supporters feel about themselves by supporting Obama.

    Yep, exactly. I have yet to receive a single explanation from any of my formerly-Republican family members (except one, who has a decent head on his shoulders and supported Obama because he thought McCain was a warmonger) beyond “but isn’t it great we have a black president now?”

    no one you know (325a59)

  4. sorry, messed up the itals there

    no one you know (325a59)

  5. This notion that long hair in the 60s was a signifier for hohosexuality as opposed to being part of the 60s is quite pernicious.

    JD (0d91a1)

  6. This notion that long hair in the 60s was a signifier for hohosexuality as opposed to being part of the 60s is quite pernicious.

    Comment by JD — 5/15/2012 @ 7:42 am

    That’s the real sin for them, that the teenager had the nerve to object to the length of a hippie’s hair. Putting it as “bullying gays” is just an attempt to get 2012 America to come on board with how evil the Bain devil is.

    no one you know (325a59)

  7. When I came back to campus in the mid-60′s, long hair was peace creep hippies. I hung out with other veterans just hoping for some hippies to start something. Alas, none ever did.

    BarSinister (664312)

  8. isn’t the official record that Obama became a coke-snorting pothead in college? The links says that

    Decades before Sen. Barack Obama was a leading candidate for the presidency, he was a lot like many University of Florida students: young, intelligent and curious.

    That college-aged curiosity led him to use alcohol, marijuana and cocaine, decisions that have now become points of contention in his campaign.

    So this isn’t apples to apples anyway. In other words, nobody’s yet dug through our rapist-in-chief’s high school days for dirt… just Romney’s, and even to the extent they’ve found dirt on the rapist, the dirty socialist media digs no further than to quote his own autobiography.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  9. Sounds like all that drug use in high school and college made Barry forget a lot of things as an adult.

    Whether its 57 states, or speaking Austrian in Austria, or the location of the Maldives Islands, or recently admitting to often forgetting how many Americans are still suffering, Obama’s journey to the Oval Office plays like a bad pothead script for “Harold and Kumar go to White Castle.” “Barack and Kumar Go to White Castle on the way to the White House.”

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  10. Today’s hippies are so much more industrious!

    They start drum circles, they start rape tents . . .

    Icy (f903bf)

  11. Elephant Stone, all the more apt that Kal Penn worked in the White House post election.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  12. I’m sorry, but is there any evidence that Lauber was gay?

    Ghost (6f9de7)

  13. SPQR,

    Ha, ha, I was wondering if someone would catch that subtle reference !

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  14. Nope, Ghost, none.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  15. I’m sorry, but is there any evidence that Lauber was gay?

    the original story says he later came out as gay and nobody’s disputed that so far I don’t think

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  16. What kind of world are we in where the supporters of both candidates are touting their candidates’ prior drug use?

    aunursa (c6d6d2)

  17. here is what the story said…

    He came out as gay to his family and close friends and led a vagabond life, taking dressage lessons in England and touring with the Royal Lipizzaner Stallion riders. After an extreme fit of temper in front of his mother and sister at home in South Bend, he checked into the Menninger Clinic psychiatric hospital in Topeka, Kan. Later he received his embalmer’s license, worked as a chef aboard big freighters and fishing trawlers, and cooked for civilian contractors during the war in Bosnia and then, a decade later, in Iraq. His hair thinned as he aged, and in the winter of 2004 he returned to Seattle, the closest thing he had to a base. He died there of liver cancer that December.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  18. I thought his family was disputing that, feets.

    Ghost (6f9de7)

  19. no they didn’t ever say what they were disputing exactly

    it may be that he was straight and he just had gay hair

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  20. Ah, that makes sense.

    Ghost (6f9de7)

  21. Meanwhile, the Obama campaign put out an ad blaming Romney for the bankruptcy of a steel company under Bain’s control.

    Romney had left Bain several years before the bankruptcy … and a large Obama bundler was still at Bain at the time.

    So the bankruptcy is more tied to an Obama donor than Romney. The Obama campaign continues to be the amateur hour.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  22. Off topic, but the word Solipsism comes to mind…

    Ghost (6f9de7)

  23. Mitt committed an IMAGINARY crime

    Barack committed a REAL crime

    Icy (f903bf)

  24. Who would you rather be acquainted with as an adult? The guy who reached out to a family in need after they suffered a horrible family tragedy, or a guy who refuses to lift a finger to help his own half-brother who lives in abject poverty?

    JVW (14d774)

  25. It’s so funny how lefties compartmentalize “bullying.”

    They rarely become particularly animated by the actions of the governments of North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Russia, et al, toward not only their own citizens, but toward other nations within the international community.

    I think it’s fair to characterize the treatment of the blind dissident Mr. Chin by the Chinese government as an act of bullying.
    Iran threatens to wipe Israel off the map.
    In an effort to intimidate South Korea and Japan, North Korea routinely rattles its nukes ballistics Star Wars light sabers bought from a Star Wars memorabilia collector on Ebay for $15 a piece.
    Russia invaded tiny little Georgia in 2008. (No, Obama Zombies, I’m not referring to Sherman’s March to Atlanta.)

    But the lefties don’t appear to be upset by any of that.

    Somehow, they turn a blind eye to all of that, while elevating Sandra Fluke as their patron saint of injustice and suffering.
    Or they focus their attention on a high school prank that allegedly took place almost fifty years ago, where the victim is deceased, and his surviving family members say they not only never heard of the prank, but that they don’t even want the anecdote to be used as a political wedge.

    If MSNBC had been around thousands of years ago to commentate on the bibilical “David VS Goliath” conflict, they would have likely shouted down David, and speculated what it is that David did to “cause” Goliath to become so angry at him.

    And who could forgot Obama’s incompetent Solicitor General, stumbling and bumbling through his arguments before the Supreme Court, recently…

    “Oh, and by the way, we’re the federal government, and we have a right to force you to buy a product you don’t want to buy, and if you refuse to cooperate, we’ll fine you thousands of dollars…because we’re the boss of you…but please don’t refer to us as bullies !”

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  26. If MSNBC had been around thousands of years ago to commentate on the bibilical “David VS Goliath” conflict, they would have likely shouted down David, and speculated what it is that David did to “cause” Goliath to become so angry at him.

    Not to mention advoate legislation to restrict the sale of slings and stones.

    JVW (14d774)

  27. E.S.- I think the only thing one can hold against the Solicitor General, if one wants to, is his choice of boss. Once accepting a client, a lawyer’s gotta do what his client wants him to do, short of breaking the law, doesn’t he/she? even a brilliant lawyer can’t be expected to work wonders trying to defend stuff that is ridiculous.

    But while we are on the topic of MSM character distortion memes, I heard a blurb by Tom Delay’s lawyer that he is up for some appeal hearing real soon. Is Tom Delay an evil corrupt politician as some say, or a nice guy who could play hardball and was trying to help foster kids when a runaway political judicial system persecuted him? It is unfortunate, as far as I can tell, that the village-like compound he was working on for foster kids lies rotting as he is drug through the courts and prison. (While one who used drugs has drug the US into an economic, foraign policy, and political quagmire, to get back to the original topic).

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  28. Facts?
    We can’t have any stinkin’ facts obscuring the narrative at the LAT!

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  29. “touring with the Royal Lipizzaner Stallion riders”

    Mr. Feets – The Royal Lippizzaner Stallions are gayer than naked Putin in a tutu singing “Over The Rainbow.”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  30. Didn’t Mitt’s mother warn him about running with scissors near a dressage rider?

    Icy (f903bf)

  31. _____________________________________________

    “Junkie. Pothead. That’s where I’d been headed: the final, fatal role of the young would-be black man.”

    No wonder Obama identified so closely with Trayvon Martin. And if Obama had a son, forget about his looking like Martin. Obama easily could have been Trayvon himself.

    In just the past 20 years, the Democrat Party has proudly embraced America’s “first black president,” Bill Clinton, and now it also embraces America’s first would-be gangsta, druggie president.

    Good going, liberals! Your compassion, generosity, humaneness, tolerance, wonderfulness and sophistication are worth admiring. They know no bounds. And you therefore never have to say you’re sorry.

    Mark (a83fb3)

  32. yes they are Mr. daley they came to my little hick town when I was a wee small child I remember watching the horsies dance at the same place we’d go see rodeo stuff

    my mom got a big kick out of it

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  33. “As I have always said, and let me be perfectly clear — as proven by Nobel Prize-winning physicist Steven Chu:
    Crack IS Whack.”

    ["But weed feeds your need!" -- Ghost]

    Icy (f903bf)

  34. Defending Romany is a waste of time, he had voting rights until after the Olympics, shared profits into 2009, sat on boards of Bain’s investments,…

    What is turning off the reservation occupants is thie Steppin Init gang can’t form a queue anywhere near the right window.

    They’re an pain in the arse and an intolerable embarrassment.

    gary gulrud (1de2db)

  35. “As I have always said, and let me be perfectly clear — as proven by Nobel Prize-winning physicist Steven Chu:
    Crack IS Whack.”

    ["But weed feeds your need!" -- Ghost]

    Comment by Icy — 5/15/2012 @ 9:38 am

    Hahaha! *rips bong*

    Ghost (6f9de7)

  36. There’s a reason Republicans have to reference Obama when discussing a couple of Romney’s issues.

    The bully thing, the prep school thing, the dog thing… those have appeal with voters. The press making hay of whatever they could find or invent or spin was inevitable no matter who we nominated. The bullying incident was very long ago, and if you searched anyone’s background that far back you would find a few ‘not my finest hour’ episodes. But ‘I’ll top that with a fact about Obama’ doesn’t help, IMO.

    The voters know who Obama is. He’s an appealing (not my opinion), undisciplined liberal who thinks he’s a centrist.

    Now they want to know who Romney is. And I think the best way to handle the attacks are to discuss who Romney is in a positive light instead of heading down the ‘they are both kinda crummy in some ways’ path. Romney’s a family man. He’s done several good deeds that outweigh his human errors. He’s a man of strong faith and experience. Executive experience in many areas. A human being, who as a boy was a boy, and grew up to do a lot of impressive stuff. A wealthy man, but a business man who met a lot of payrolls.

    Screw this ‘Obama did even worse’. The voters have digested so many attacks on Obama. Ayers, Wright, birther hysterics, … but I don’t think most voters appreciate the foreign policy disaster or the policy disaster beyond the economic problems. I think showing Romney can pass budgets and steer the economy, and Obama can’t, and highlighting Romney’s good side, makes more sense.

    And begrudgingly, I admit there is an advantage in noting Romney is a centrist on policy. This is not a very conservative person. The left can’t resort to attacks about horrible nightmarish policy changes without drawing smirks. The best they’ve got is something that happened 45 years ago in the life of a nice man.

    Dustin (330eed)

  37. Studies are unclear whether negative ad campaigns are effective but I think that’s different from quick response ads, which IMO are very effective. Romney needs to respond quickly and directly to ads that criticize him or his record, and I think he’s done that very well so far.

    In the coming months, Romney should also point out how he differs from Obama and how Obama is hurting our economy with his decisions. I have a feeling Romney’s PACs will be doing a lot of the latter.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  38. I suppose it wouldn’t make sense to urge him to hire whoever was making Perry’s ads as Romney crushed Perry in the primary.

    I liked Perry’s ads quite a bit.

    If I were to make an ad for Romney, it would be a black screen noting in white text:

    The deficit is out of control.

    No budget has been passed in years.

    Obama is not leading a recovery.

    But Romney was a bad boy once 45 years ago.

    Dustin (330eed)

  39. Obama does not believe he is a centrist, though.

    He believes he will do better by passing himself off as a centrist. He was raised on the prog/commie code and he still uses it and his machine is unlikely to abandon it. How deeply held his views are is up for grabs but whatever his attachment I don’t think he really knows anything else, except that he has to disguise it.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  40. Have the voters caught on to THAT? Maybe some have.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  41. MD in Philly,

    Yes, my point with the Solicitor General is that ObamaCare bullies American consumers, yet the proponents of it can’t recognize that they bullied the American people with the whole process.

    I was not questioning whether or not he was just doing his job.

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  42. How about Chris Matthews bullying a black minister: “I hope you evolve.”

    AZ Bob (7d2a2c)

  43. “he had voting rights until after the Olympics, shared profits into 2009″

    gary – Voting rights on what exactly, individual investments or Bain Capital policy?

    Deferred payouts on illiquid investments are not exactly unusual in the world of finance Prof. Gulrud. Bain Capital employees don’t get paid profits on investments until gains on individual investments are realized, which sometimes takes many years. Just more anal clutching on your part?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  44. It is true that Obama has been misleading about his core views. You can see that with the gay marriage issue, but this is no surprise to those who (as Sarah has) recall his associations with goofy kooks over the years, which fits in neatly with the rest of his background (which is basically socialist).

    So OK.

    But as far as voter perception goes, I don’t think that’s going to work as Obama has effectively compromised. I know that’s not something the right recognizes because switching from single payer to ind mandate seems pretty damn lefty to a lot of us. The gutsy call foriegn policy looks like a dog and pony show. The paygo and ‘tax cuts for 95%’ rhetoric is superficially conservative, but is also fictitious.

    So yeah, most liberal president ever, easily. Not a centrist. But the voters are more interested in The Bachelorette show and the next music video awards and think both candidates see themselves as centrists even though the center point is in dispute.

    Regardless, Obama’s goofball college years wouldn’t mean a thing to me if he balanced the freaking budget. He can’t even pass one. It’s such a joke.

    He’s not doing his job.

    Dustin (330eed)

  45. Obama? Lie?

    Oh, hold me Martha!

    Space Cockroach (8096f2)

  46. Both candidates went to elite prep schools.

    One was a diligent student who was well liked by his fellow students who played a few pranks.

    The other skipped classes, drank and did a lot of drugs and played basketball.

    Vote For The Slacker!

    Obama 2012!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  47. It’s never been explained how amiable pothead/indifferent student Barack Obama got into Occidental, Columbia and Harvard.Perhaps Perhaps it was as Barry Sotero, Indonesian exchange student?Similarly he managed to enter Pakistan after the Zia coup at a time when an Americn passport would bar entry. Again, was Barry Sotero, Indonesian guy, there? It’s the only thing that makes sense,that as a young man he denigrated his American citizenship. We know he somehow managed to get an SSI number for a Connecticut resident despite never having lived there, whcih is bizarre and unexplained. We also know at Harvard he was famous for kissing professors’ asses and managed to chair the law review without penning a single article-unheard of for any law review member in any law school.

    Running up $6 trillion in debt is still the issue. But if we’re going to have the MFM obsess over background, then let’s discuss that of Soetero/Obama, which they refused to do in 2008.

    Bugg (234f77)

  48. Obviously, I don’t know whether or not Lauber was gay, or “came out” later in life or ever. It sounds like he was a troubled person. It’s obviously painful to his family that he is being used in this way, now. I don’t like hazing because I don’t like anything resembling bullying. Unfortunately it’s always been a part of growing up. Try to name a classic coming of age novel or movie that does not depict some form of hazing or taunting or prank. Assuming it occurred, I don’t think it’s naive to see this as a fairly simple story about high school, about long hair and a forced hair cut, rather than a deeply sinister assault. Honestly, won’t most rational people view it that way, too?

    People need only to have been there, or to be familiar with contemporary 1960′s writings in reputable media tut-tutting over the Beatles’ and the Rolling Stones’ loooong hair and lifestyles, to know that the Obama kindergarten election team acted stupidly to try to make this “story” about homosexuality. Male long hair was not beloved by everybody at the time. Teachers hated it. Moms especially disliked it. Long hair was often equated (fairly or not) with drug use. Much of the contemporary writing and broadcasts mocked that with their hair below their ears the Beatles and Stones (as well as men in the emerging hippie movement) “looked like girls”. But most everybody recognized the hair thing as a symbol of rebellion. No one assumed all longer haired guys were gay–the public at large simply did not have “gay” on their radar screens at the time. The long haired musicians oozed young male sexuality and the women who screamed and hung around outside their concerts and their hotel rooms knew it (whether the guys’ hair made them look like girls or not.)

    elissa (1d2591)

  49. ________________________________________________

    He believes he will do better by passing himself off as a centrist.

    I’ve never sensed he had a desire to pose as a centrist or moderate. If anything, his recent announcement about favoring same-sex marriage indicates he’d prefer to move further left (certainly in public) than before. His rhetoric and demeanor have always struck me as that of an unrepentant leftist. So if people like to think of him as a moderate, they themselves would have to be ultra-liberals.

    BTW, Obama’s stance on SSM is hardly surprising, since I’d say his original ambivalence regarding that controversy was more feigned than real, more camouflage than intrinsic. In particular, based on some apparently up-close-and-personal sources indicating Obama’s sexual involvement with males in the past (ie, his membership to a gay club in Chicago), he’s far more likely to sympathize with homosexual behavior since that is a facet of who he is (not to mention that a high percentage of GLBT people are of the left).

    If America is a society in decline or anomie, than we sure as hell put the appropriate figurehead into the White House.

    Mark (a83fb3)

  50. If anything, his recent announcement about favoring same-sex marriage indicates he’d prefer to move further left (certainly in public) than before.

    Perhaps.

    Or perhaps it’s like a fighter who is retreating because a direct fight over the desired ground can’t be won.

    Obama needs those donations to keep pouring in.

    I don’t think his policy statements have much to do with his personal views. I think they are strictly political calculations.

    The media is portraying this as America changing, but I don’t that’s really what this about. I also think any issue, even losing issues, are preferable to Obama than the economy issue.

    Dustin (330eed)

  51. The hair cutting story, which Romney said he doesn’t remember, but regrets if it happened, has been denied by the “victim” and the family. It didn’t happen, like a lot of other things concerning Obama.

    Mike K (326cba)

  52. Oh, and I don’t even think these ruthless political calculations are cunning. They have the spirit of cunning, but not the skill.

    The gutsy call meme and the gay marriage point (Which causes a lot of problems for Obama) are flailing attempts.

    Dustin (330eed)

  53. It didn’t happen, like a lot of other things concerning Obama.

    If that’s the case, then I’ll stand corrected. I thought it had been corroborated by other parties, though of course the details (such as the gay bashing meme) were embellished or invented.

    Dustin (330eed)

  54. Worse, among independents, 23% said [Obama's gay marriage stance] would make them less likely to vote for Obama while only 11% said it made them more likely–a negative for a net of 12% of this group.

    The sad thing is, I don’t really have a problem with Obama’s view. I am a fan of the nuclear family, but I also am a fan of the government staying out of the way of people living their happy peaceful lives however they want. It’s not a black and white issue, and a perfect example of one where the feds should let states do whatever they want (including not recognizing marriages… even if someone wants them to, so people can find the state that does what they agree with as different experiments play out).

    Dustin (330eed)

  55. Sorry for the quintuple posts, but the prior quite is of Kaus.

    Dustin (330eed)

  56. I don’t really have a problem with Obama’s view. I am a fan of the nuclear family, but I also am a fan of the government staying out of the way of people living their happy peaceful lives however they want.

    – Yeah, that’s what Obama said: HE wants government to stay out of the way.

    Sure he does.

    Icy (f903bf)

  57. _________________________________________________

    I don’t think his policy statements have much to do with his personal views.

    He seems like a fairly typical leftwinger to me. His background, history, perhaps even genetics (ie, mother, father, grandfather, etc, affiliated with knee-jerk left-leaning politics) all point to innate liberal, or ultra-liberal, sentiments and biases. Of course, he may modify his preferences on occasion for tactical reasons (eg, I’m sure he favored a far more draconian version of Obamacare), but, if anything, that would be in order to accommodate a peculiar mix of left and right. For instance, his being skittish about the idea of same-sex marriage, but not due to his wanting to be nice to mean ol’ Christian traditionalists, but to be nice to sad, downtrodden, disheartened, anti-imperialist, Third-World-ized, pro-Sharia-law, anti-gay Islamicists.

    Mark (a83fb3)

  58. gay marriage is cool I think we should make the gay marriage for so everyone can get gay married if they want

    this way everyone can get married to their first choice and not have to settle for someone they’re not attracted to

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  59. He seems like a fairly typical leftwinger to me.

    Of course.

    I’m just saying that his moves are not because he woke up one day and decided it’s time to publicly move left on something, even if he always held that leftish view.

    Dustin (330eed)

  60. ______________________________________________

    but I also am a fan of the government staying out of the way of people living their happy peaceful lives however they want.

    I recall an article last year about Utah state government cracking down on a polygamist family living in a small town in that part of the country. One of the townspeople, when interviewed about the polygamist, wasn’t thrilled with such activity. But she sort of snorted by noting that since same-sex marriage was being promoted and touted everywhere, treating multi-partner marriages as alien and a big no-no was losing traction. She had a point.

    Mark (a83fb3)

  61. The hair cutting story, which Romney said he doesn’t remember, but regrets if it happened, has been denied by the “victim” and the family. It didn’t happen, like a lot of other things concerning Obama.
    Comment by Mike K — 5/15/2012 @ 11:19 am

    – That’s not exactly true. The victim’s family has denied having any knowledge of the event. This means that either, A) they weren’t told because there was nothing to tell; or, B) they weren’t told because the victim was too embarrassed or didn’t want to burden them OR did not think it was a very big deal, himself.

    As for the victim himself denying that the incident ever took place, I can find no evidence of this. Can you cite a source for that one?

    Icy (f903bf)

  62. Mark: “I’ve never sensed he had a desire to pose as a centrist or moderate”

    I don’t know hat he desires, really, but I know what he believes he thinks he must do in that quarter. And there is a tacit understanding amongst his friends about that necessity.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  63. feets, are you saying that a lot of people’s “first choice” would be someone of the same gender?

    ["Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?"]

    Icy (f903bf)

  64. But she sort of snorted by noting that since same-sex marriage was being promoted and touted everywhere, treating multi-partner marriages as alien and a big no-no was losing traction.

    Yeah, I get where you’re coming from. I think polygamy is far, far more destructive than some realize (it leads to a lot of people who can’t find a mate and then have less investment in a peaceful and productive life… such as in certain parts of the Middle East where polygamy is legal and people are miserable and less equal in many respects).

    The slippery slope argument (or fallacy) can go a little too far when people start saying gay marriage will lead to bestiality and incest. It obviously won’t. But polygamy? Maybe.

    One problem is how difficult it is to have an earnest discussion about the nuclear family. And tolerance for gay marriage shouldn’t mean it’s wrong to say one prefers a father and a mother, with different roles in a family, as an ideal. It just means tolerance.

    Dustin (330eed)

  65. __________________________________________

    this way everyone can get married to their first choice and not have to settle for someone they’re not attracted to

    But be honest, hp. Since you yourself often use “gay” in a pejorative way, even you apparently feel there is something freaky or laughable about what that word signifies.

    Besides, there are people like Barack Obama, who need both a bit of hetero (ie, Michelle) and a bit of homo on the side. So to be a fair, compassionate and sophisticated society, we do need to accommodate the “B” in the “GLBT.”

    Mark (a83fb3)

  66. and a bit of homo on the side.

    I’m not familiar with this. There’s an “Obama is bisexual” meme? I would be very suspicious of that kind of claim. If it’s not backed up by evidence, it’s probably a lie.

    Dustin (330eed)

  67. _________________________________________________

    but I know what he believes he thinks he must do in that quarter.

    But given the past few days and his going out of his way to support same-sex marriage, this is not a period of time — symbolically or tactically, or both — in the history of the Obama administration that indicates a politician who’d like to be less leftwing and more centrist.

    Mark (a83fb3)

  68. I disagree. His support would have been open, consistent, and unqualified if that were the case.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  69. The people who had little problem supporting Ted Kennedy after Chappaquiddick in 1969, are blowing a gasket because Mitt Romney allegedly cut the hair of a rebellious prep school student in 1965, when he was 16 years old.

    Normally, I would be inclined to say, “Unbelievable.”

    Except it is believable—that’s how lefties operate.

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  70. ________________________________________________

    If it’s not backed up by evidence, it’s probably a lie.

    Under different circumstances, and during the naivete of our society/culture decades ago (before the controversies of stories involving Anthony Weiner or Monica Lewinsky, before supermarket tabloids were proven correct about John Edwards love child, much less JFK in the 1960s, etc), I’d have felt that way. Not anymore. If anything, reality may be more unhinged than assumed, with life mimicking art.

    Of course, what I’ve read about Obama’s past has to be classified as rumor and heresay. And it may stem from the overactive imagination of gay activists. But if I had to place a bet on what’s true or not, and the $100 million Lotto were on the line, I’d wager that what has been heard through the grapevine is probably legit.

    Mark (a83fb3)

  71. From the L.A. Times:

    Romney pulled together a pack of boys and went to Lauber’s room, where they tackled him and pinned him down. As Lauber, with tears streaming down his cheeks, screamed for help, Romney pulled out scissors and chopped away at the kid’s hair.

    ABC quoted Phillip Maxwell as they were a pack of dogs

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/former-romney-classmate-describes-bullying-supreme-a-pack-of-dogs-who-targeted-differentboy/

    “I saw it with my own eyes,” said Maxwell, of the anecdote first reported by the Washington Post. Maxwell said Romney held the scissors helping to cut the hair of a student, John Lauber, who was presumed to be gay and who had long hair. “It was a hack job … clumps of hair taken off.”

    Maxwell said he held the boy’s arm and leg, describing he and his friends as a “pack of dogs.”

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  72. Was Maxwell the guy who later admitted he was not there?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  73. Obama is misleading people in several different ways (and so is Romney)

    I am trying to figure out what’s going on here. he’s trying to do, it looks like he’s just trying to undermine Romney’s campaign strategy. It is hard to see it making sense any other way.

    They had an interview with Obama on the View. And the intefviwers suggested there’s no real difference between Obama and Romney on this issue – both say it should be left to the states.

    Obama was quick to interject that there was a difference – except that what he cited is extremely misleading to an uninfoirmed person – and at the same time misleading to anyone not extremely well informed.

    Obama said Romney wants a constitioonal amendment outlawing gay marriage. That’s misleading. But misleading also is that he conceals his legal position which is that not allowing gay marriage violates the Equal Protection clause of teh 14th amendment.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  74. Some people say that in DEUT 23:18 (23:19) Thou shalt not bring the hire of a harlot, or the price of a dog,

    ….that the word dog doesn’t really mean a dog.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  75. Maxwell is the Democrat who is going to vote for Obama that ABC tried to muddle over.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  76. ==feets, are you saying that a lot of people’s “first choice” would be someone of the same gender?==

    Icy- I took happyfeet’s comment above at #59 as a serious point. One can argue whether gay marriage is the solution, but there are plenty of late 20th century examples where because of religious beliefs, society’s strictures, career advancement, or a personal desire for a “normal family” life, young gay men had married unsuspecting women who loved them and fathered children with them. This was not fair to anybody. In many cases these men “came out” after 15, 20 or 25 years of marriage and sought divorce, some had infected their wives with sexual diseases, or sometimes the wives finally figured out why their sex lives had been so sucko and divorced the guy–frequently after years of therapy to deal with why their husbands had lost interest and didn’t find them sexy.

    I don’t pretend to know all the answers. But gay men marrying heterosexual women really does not seem like a good idea.

    elissa (89652e)

  77. 73. Comment by daleyrocks — 5/15/2012 @ 12:32 pm

    Was Maxwell the guy who later admitted he was not there?

    No, that was Stuart White – except that the story never said that Stuart White was there,

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romneys-prep-school-classmates-recall-pranks-but-also-troubling-incidents/2012/05/10/gIQA3WOKFU_print.html

    ….only that he had “long been bothered by the Lauber incident”

    Then it was revealed that he heard about it “several weeks ago, before being contacted by The Washington Post” and still later that the person who contacted him was ” a former classmate.”

    But the story had also said:

    The incident was recalled similarly by five students, who gave their accounts independently of one another.

    That their accounts were all independent. But obviously, somebody was trying to round up witnesses.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  78. Of course maybe a problem here was we didn’t do good enough exegesis.

    The Washington Post named 4 sources and said there was a fifth anonynmous one:

    …five students, who gave their accounts independently of one another. Four of them — Friedemann, now a dentist; Phillip Maxwell, a lawyer; Thomas Buford, a retired prosecutor; and David Seed, a retired principal — spoke on the record. Another former student who witnessed the incident asked not to be identified.

    Later on, the article goes on to talk about other bad things Romney did.

    That’s where we read, in the current version of the article:

    I always enjoyed his pranks,” said Stu White, a popular friend of Romney’s who went on to a career as a public school teacher and said he has been “disturbed” by the Lauber incident since hearing about it several weeks ago, before being contacted by The Washington Post. “But I was not the brunt of any of his pranks.” [Updated: See Editor’s Note below]

    Editor’s Note: An earlier version of this story reported that White “has long been bothered” by the Lauber incident. White later clarified in a subsequent interview that he has been disturbed by the incident since he learned of it several weeks ago from a former classmate, before being contacted by The Washington Post.

    Now it is possible that an anonymous source for something actually allows his name to be used for something else in the article. That goes on somewhat in Washington, I read, particularly when there is an unnamed “administration source” or somerthing like that.

    But it really was jumping to conclusions that White was the fifth source. Of course in the original version Stuart White was supposedly long bothered by it, which does make it sound like he witnessed at least part of it. Then it was revealed that he only heard about not long before being contacted by the Washington Post, and still later that he had been been contacted by a classmate.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  79. Comment by Dustin — 5/15/2012 @ 9:50 am

    The voters only know Obama by what the media has told them; meaning, that they don’t know Obama at all.
    The media that has done their homework, lies about what they know. Most of them never read Obama’s two books, and have no idea what he has said about himself
    The great mass of unwashed were/are led by a sometimes lying, often times misinformed “elite” that is in love with a vision, no matter that it is unattainable, or even desirable.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  80. The mainstream media could haev chosen to focus on other things in that article.

    Leviticus 19:14 says:

    “‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but fear your God. I am the LORD.

    Mitt Romney, the Washington Post reported, almost literally did this:


    One venerable English teacher, Carl G. Wonn­berger, nicknamed “the Bat” for his diminished eyesight, was known to walk into the trophy case and apologize, step into wastepaper baskets and stare blindly as students slipped out the back of the room to smoke by the open windows. Once, several students remembered the time pranksters propped up the back axle of Wonnberger’s Volkswagen Beetle with two-by-fours and watched, laughing from the windows, as the unwitting teacher slammed the gas pedal with his wheels spinning in the air.

    In the New York Times, Gail Collins wrote in her column that appearesd last Saturday: (which is actually the first place I read about that one. It turns out the inciodent she mentions here wasn’t in the Washington Post article but first appeared somewhere else – maybe a blast email to reporters?)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/12/opinion/collins-the-anatomy-of-a-jokester.html


    • A teacher who students enjoyed making fun of for his poor eyesight was walking with Romney and some of his classmates when they came to two sets of glass doors. Mitt opened the first for his professor, swept his hand forward to indicate the second set was open as well, and then laughed hysterically when the teacher smacked into the closed door.

    This was also mentioned by Charles Blow in another column on the Op-ed page taht day:

    The allegations include shouting “atta girl!” when a “closeted gay student” spoke out in class and walking a blind teacher into a closed door after which Romney is reported to have “giggled hysterically.”

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  81. High School Pranks….

    About ten (or more) of us in band, picked up the band teacher’s new VW, and repositioned it straddling (right wheels on one side/left wheels on the other) the 10×10 “bumper strip” that passed for a curb in our gravel parking lot – and laughed like Hell while he tried to “unstraddle” himself.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  82. The Washington Post article quotes someone as saying he changed after he got married:

    In later years, after Romney went on a Mormon mission, married and raised five sons, he seemed a different person to some old classmates. “Mitt began to change as a person when he met Ann Davies. He gradually became a more serious person. She was part of the process of him maturing and becoming more of the person he is today,” said Jim Bailey, who was a classmate of Romney’s at Cranbrook and later at Harvard.

    Gail Collins, though, cites two things from after he got married: (where she got them from, she doesn’t say)

    Invited to the wedding in which his wife was one of the bridesmaids, Romney livened up the afternoon by snitching the groom’s shoes and using nail polish to write H-E-L-P on the soles so all the guests could see it when the happy couple knelt down to take their marital vows.

    And one incident, twenty or more years later, when Clinton was president:

    On his first visit to the White House during the Clinton administration, Romney protested when he was handed a red visitors’ badge with the letter A. “I’m not the one that cheated on my wife. He should be wearing the scarlet A, not me,” Mitt said, repeatedly, to the fun-loving White House security staff.

    Repeatedly would mean he was trying to get people to laugh at this, or take notice of this, and they weren’t doing it. “Fun-loving” there is ironic.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  83. There were probably much better and important things to criticize Clinton about.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  84. Well that does it for me. I cannot possibly vote for someone who wrote “help” on the soles of a bridegroom’s shoes.

    elissa (89652e)

  85. 70. Comment by Elephant Stone — 5/15/2012 @ 12:13 pm

    The people who had little problem supporting Ted Kennedy after Chappaquiddick in 1969, are blowing a gasket because Mitt Romney allegedly cut the hair of a rebellious prep school student in 1965, when he was 16 years old.n

    17 years old. Actually there are worse things being told. But somebody decided to focus on the “gay” angle, or the “bully” angle.

    I suppose it could be put to Mitt Romney’s credit that he never informed his father, the Governor, or the Michigan Department of Motor Vehicles about that teacher who stumbled into things. In car centric Michigan, only a low down mean scoundrel would try to take away a person’s driving license.

    Just like with Mr. Magoo he knew no serrious accident could happen.

    Or is there something wrong with the story?
    Normally, I would be inclined to say, “Unbelievable.”

    Except it is believable—that’s how lefties operate.

    ________________________________________________

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  86. Last two lines are mistakenly quoted.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  87. As someone said, this is why we don’t elect children president. But, sadly, we let them vote.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  88. 44. By “Romney left Bain in 1999″ apologists mean to convey absolution for all outcomes post day-to-day oversight. Well, that is obvious nonsense, he remained titular CEO until after the Olympics and extensive investment as a partner emeritus.

    Second, Romney paid capital gains rates on his investment and earnings.

    Now, as the lawyers are fond of posturing, ‘if its legal there is no moral issue”. Sure, just like Romney has morphed into a “pro-choice” conservative, standing behind RVW but personally pro-life.

    Winning ugly is winning, not pretty and not deserving of approbation.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  89. “44. By “Romney left Bain in 1999″ apologists mean to convey absolution for all outcomes post day-to-day oversight”

    gary – Wrong Bemidji Butthead. When knuckle draggers hyperventilate over the unsourced “fact” that Romney had profit sharing at Bain Capital without giving any context it means nothing, like most of your comments.

    How did Goldman Sachs pay out departing partners while it was still a private partnership? Multiple years.

    If investments were made under Romney’s watch in a Bain Capital fund, and there were multiple funds raised, wouldn’t he be entitled to payouts on those funds until the funds were liquidated or all assets returned to investors?

    Being ignorant of industry practices makes normal people shy about commenting on situations. There is no mistaking you for normal, gary.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  90. Sammy the Fink,

    How do you know for certain that Romney had celebrated his 17th birthday at the time of this alleged prank ? And if he had, how is that difference important to fixing the nation’s economy in 2013 ?

    Whether he was 16 or 17, that’s not important. Maybe to you it is, because you tend to split hairs with people about inconsequential data.

    The point is that Ted Kennedy was a sitting US Senator in his late 30s when he left Mary Jo Kopechne to drown, yet liberals had no problem continuing to support him afterwards.

    Robert Byrd was in his 20s when he was recruiting people for the Klan, yet that skeleton in his “youth” didn’t prohibit liberals from supporting him.

    The list is endless.

    Barack Obama was snorting coke off of coffee tables in Occidental College apartments when he was in college. Why isn’t that a front page story on the Washington Compost ?

    (That’s a rhetorical question.)

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  91. “Last two lines are mistakenly quoted.”

    Sammy – It’s good you left them in because they illustrate the absurdity of the lefty narrative. The “blind” English teacher tortured by Romney can still see well enough to drive a car. OMG!!!!!

    Sounds clumsy, not blind to me.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  92. the Slimes is as lousy a news source as Obumbles is a president.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  93. 90. daley,- you are congenitally unable to address the point, Bain, corporate law and Federal crony-capitalist finesse do not make a candidate worthy of support.

    Some 40-odd percent of the electorate will decide this election. No one else is interested.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  94. Gary, there is a point buried in your comment?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  95. Romney currently maintains investment in “Bain Capital Fund VII-E, Bain Capital Fund VIII, Bain Capital VIII CoInvestment Fund, Bain Capital Fund IX, Bain Capital Fund IX CoInvestment Fund, Bain Capital Fund X, Bain Capital Asia Fund and Bain Capital Europe Fund all officially registered in the Caymans. The investments only amount to 30 million dollars”

    No influence whatever.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  96. it will likely be the 40% who are looking for w*rk, and they will mostly blame the SCOAMF…

    i was out in Sun Valley the other day, shopping at a store there that attracts a broad spectrum of social classes, and thus a wide variety of potential voters.

    some idiot had a SCOAMF 2012 sticker on their prius (you have to be an idiot to buy a hybrid car, as they have a bigger toxic footprint than a regular car and they are uneconomic to own) and i remarked in passing to HRH that it was hard to believe anyone was actually going to vote for the First Failure again.

    there was a young maybe twenty something white kid, tattoos, hip hop shirt and all, and a late twenties/early thirties hispanic guy with his kids walking by at the time and they both spontaneously agreed that he has been an economic failure and they wanted him gone.

    granted, it’s only two voters, but both are populations you’d expect to have drunk long and deep of the koolade, but they are apparently not buying it.

    makes you wonder how many others there are like them out there…

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  97. “I don’t like hazing because I don’t like anything resembling bullying. Unfortunately it’s always been a part of growing up. Try to name a classic coming of age novel or movie that does not depict some form of hazing or taunting or prank. Assuming it occurred, I don’t think it’s naive to see this as a fairly simple story about high school, about long hair and a forced hair cut, rather than a deeply sinister assault. Honestly, won’t most rational people view it that way, too?”

    - elissa

    I don’t think the sexuality of the victim matters all that much, but – to me – a forced haircut is f*cked-up, borderline psychotic stuff. Can you imagine doing that to someone?

    You point to coming-of-age novels, but the people pulling “pranks” like forced hair-cuts in those novels are portrayed as sick assh*les.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  98. thirty million dollars out of how much total money in all Bain funds worldwide?

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  99. funny: forced haircuts are an established part of coming of age rituals…

    just join the military, for an example.

    besides, does anyone know if this “hair cutting” actually occurred, or is it as fake as Obama’s economic plans to fix the economy?

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  100. “90. daley,- you are congenitally unable to address the point, Bain, corporate law and Federal crony-capitalist finesse do not make a candidate worthy of support.”

    gary – Whatever you say. Care to provide a source for your information?

    Are the investments you cite in #95 the source of the profit sharing you describe?

    With respect to those funds, what percent of the overall funds does $30 million represent?

    When you show a semblance of knowing what you are talking about, you might earn some respect.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  101. 96. Apologists for a return to 2008 are not part of a solution or on the road to finding one.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  102. “90. daley,- you are congenitally unable to address the point, Bain, corporate law and Federal crony-capitalist finesse do not make a candidate worthy of support.”

    gary – Incoherence is usually not worthy of response, but I made an exception.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  103. 103. daley, you demand my sources and provide none for your own suppositions. Respect I neither seek nor require, shyster.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  104. Leviticus,

    A haircut was considered to be a prank 50 years ago when Romney was in prep school and college, back when hazing was something people viewed with humor instead of as a potential crime. A forced haircut as a part of a hazing ritual is still acceptable today, as long as it’s not the wrong “victim.”

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  105. 98. I absolutely agree, even the MN academics are sick the Dimmis, not all, e.g., Klobuchar.

    My point is forget ABO, he’s toast, make a statement.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  106. This weas the way, Bain was seen originally, and I’m willing to guess, will be again, by the fall.

    http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/12/13/fact-or-fiction-romneys-private-equity-past/

    narciso (1c125b)

  107. 100. Something like $2 Billion in private equity, but that could be trivial, they have 136 funds registered in the Caymans.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  108. 96. Apologists for a return to 2008 are not part of a solution or on the road to finding one.

    Comment by gary gulrud — 5/15/2012 @ 3:56 pm

    Really? That’s your point? We will have a choice in November between Romney and Obama. And you think that returning to 2008 is a bad thing? Heck, I’d love to get $5 trillion in debt back out.

    Sheesh. Find a better theme, Gary, that one is pretty stupid.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  109. Sammy:

    Repeatedly would mean he was trying to get people to laugh at this, or take notice of this, and they weren’t doing it. “Fun-loving” there is ironic.

    I think it’s more likely Romney repeated the joke to different people he encountered at the White House, not that he persisted in trying to get the same people to laugh.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  110. DRJ,

    That’s not a forced haircut. Tebow’s teammates didn’t hold him down while he cried and told them to leave him alone. He allowed them to give him a haircut as a rookie initiation. I got a funny haircut as an initiation to varsity soccer in high school, too – voluntarily. One of my teammates didn’t want the haircut. We didn’t hold him down and force one on him. Because that would’ve been f*cked up.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  111. And this is the way the story, looked a month later;

    http://www.wbur.org/npr/145235049/breaking-down-bain-capital

    narciso (1c125b)

  112. Mitt pulled a loose thread on my button down shirt. That homophobic act scarred me for life!

    Gayish Cranbrook Preppy Circa '65 (721840)

  113. Leviticus,

    So we’re established that haircuts and hazing are okay, just not forced haircuts/hazing. Do you think forced hazing in prep schools was common and acceptable during the 1960′s, or uncommon and unacceptable? If the former, is it fair to impose today’s standards on things that happened 50 years ago?

    On a related subject, people are obviously applying today’s standards on Obama because pot and cocaine were not legal when he indulged. But he’s getting a pass because people are more accepting today. Isn’t that one-sided? When you really think about it, Obama’s drug use when he knew it was illegal is much worse than what Romney did.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  114. Psst, don’t tell anybody. The secret of hair: It grows back.

    Too long ago to matter, but I fought two guys at once, in high school, and I got more scars on my knuckles than on my face. If the story has any depth, it would be the ganging up that bothers me.

    nk (875f57)

  115. 111. We’ll see before November how stupid it is–e.g., what are the chances the lame-duck congress will make Bush cuts permanent over a veto, will rebalance sequestered cuts, etc.

    Morgan Stanley stands to lose $40 Billion on EU cavitation this summer, too big to fail?

    Israel is certain to hit Iran by the end of September.

    I won’t say you’re stupid, just humorously credulous.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  116. playing soccer is enough of a punishment…

    have to get a haircut too is horrid.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  117. Leviticus–I had hoped that I made clear my personal aversion to hazing of any kind while trying at the same time to capture the tenor of the times back in the mid-sixties– and to remind that there have always been degrees of hazing activity involving boys.

    Your view of an alleged haircut as “borderline psychotic” is not something I can relate to, but I realize that people do see things differently. An example of borderline psychotic hazing to me is the band members in Florida who recently unintentionally killed the drum major by forcing him to run a steady gauntlet of hitting and beating from the front to the back of the schoolbus. They argued that this exact hazing has been going on for years–that they have all been recipients themselves– and that it was the traditional way older band members “welcomed” new band members into the fold. That’s pretty sick. And that makes hair cutting as a prank look pretty benign in proportion. To me, at least.

    elissa (89652e)

  118. Punahou is a school for the wealthy and connected. Obama was a trustafarian of the state.

    mg (44de53)

  119. To quote a favorite writer, the only way I want to see a mob is from behind a machine gun.

    nk (875f57)

  120. “So we’re established that haircuts and hazing are okay, just not forced haircuts/hazing. Do you think forced hazing in prep schools was common and acceptable during the 1960′s, or uncommon and unacceptable? If the former, is it fair to impose today’s standards on things that happened 50 years ago?

    On a related subject, people are obviously applying today’s standards on Obama because pot and cocaine were not legal when he indulged. But he’s getting a pass because people are more accepting today. Isn’t that one-sided? When you really think about it, Obama’s drug use when he knew it was illegal is much worse than what Romney did.”

    - DRJ

    The forced nature of the act is what bothers me, yes – and the fact that Romney and his friends ganged up to do it, as nk points out. Hair is just hair, of course – but rapes don’t always do physical damage, either.

    I think it’s perfectly fair to impose basic standards of decency across temporal gaps. I’ve argued this before (on a Columbus Day thread a couple years back): I think certain things are obviously morally wrong, regardless of the era in which they occur, and I think that giving a crying kid a forced haircut is one of them. Wouldn’t you be disturbed if the school called and said that your son had done that? Or been on the receiving end of that? (On a side note – and I’m not accusing you of this, DRJ – I think that some people who balk at the notion of moral relativism across culture and geography are far too willing to indulge in moral relativism across time).

    Regarding Obama, I wouldn’t care one lick if people refused to support him because of his past drug use. I think that’s a legitimate reason not to support someone; and (in keeping with my remarks above) I don’t think the rightness or wrongness of the act changes with the passage of time alone.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  121. elissa,

    you made your point clearly, and it was appreciated. I agree that there are degrees of this sort of hazing, and I agree that the FAMU stuff was far worse than this. But I still find this incident fairly disturbing.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  122. Played three sports in a Catholic HS during the seventies. ALL freshmen were initiated in every sport. There were several broken bones, and no one was ever held accountable. People were routinely called f@gs/g@y. The movie, Waiting was comparable in the humiliation dealt to underclassmen.

    ∅ (721840)

  123. 111. We’ll see before November how stupid it is–e.g., what are the chances the lame-duck congress will make Bush cuts permanent over a veto, will rebalance sequestered cuts, etc.
    Morgan Stanley stands to lose $40 Billion on EU cavitation this summer, too big to fail?
    Israel is certain to hit Iran by the end of September.
    I won’t say you’re stupid, just humorously credulous.
    Comment by gary gulrud — 5/15/2012 @ 4:27 pm

    Nothing in this incoherent comment of yours seems responsive to my comment at all, Gary. Is there an english translation?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  124. I’m sorry, but is there any evidence that Lauber was gay?

    It really doesn’t matter, does it? The narrative is now in play and that’s the basis for subsequent accusations against Romney – he’s a gay basher, he assaulted a gay kid, etc. If there were objective reporting by the WaPo, etc., then it would matter, but they have gotten less concerned with *appearing* interested in unbiased reporting and more interested in pushing the narrative that helps Obama.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  125. I think certain things are obviously morally wrong, regardless of the era in which they occur, and I think that giving a crying kid a forced haircut is one of them.

    In conjunction with comment 127, I think it was an awful and abusive thing to do to another kid. I don’t see the humor in it, and whether or not we’re talking degrees of hazing in different eras matters little to me. It was awful. However, when the family is protesting this, and siblings are questioning it occurring, it makes me suspect that this is more about that narrative being pushed than actual truth.

    I don’t know that hazing was much different back then. I think there was probably the same amount of awfulness taking place but it was a far different climate then. People were more reserved, less open, things were swept under the rug, and communication wasn’t yet a spill-all mentality that we seem to have now. Also, bullying hadn’t yet become the catch-all for *any* kind of childish, obnoxious behaviors – both good and bad.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  126. ISTR that the “victim”‘s family denies the event occurred at all…

    but, since we are engaging in retroactive outrage over this alleged one time incident, i’d like to point out that Obama ate dogs during this time period, and frankly, as an animal lover, i find that much more reprehensible than a possible one time haircut.

    YMMV.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  127. Those are really things out of Romney’s control, ‘might make for some interesting times’.

    narciso (1c125b)

  128. It really doesn’t matter, does it? The narrative is now in play and that’s the basis for subsequent accusations against Romney – he’s a gay basher, he assaulted a gay kid, etc. If there were objective reporting by the WaPo, etc., then it would matter, but they have gotten less concerned with *appearing* interested in unbiased reporting and more interested in pushing the narrative that helps Obama.

    This is what bothers me. Compared to my freshman initiation, the haircutting seems rather mild. But, I didn’t play soccer, so I can’t claim how scarred I’d have been with a shearing for that particular sport.

    ∅ (721840)

  129. “Morgan Stanley stands to lose $40 Billion on EU cavitation”

    gary – I did not know the European Union was cavitating. You want more regulation, vote for Obama?

    What does any of this have to do with Romney?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  130. Obama ate dogs during this time period

    B-b-but that was cultural![snort]

    ∅ (721840)

  131. Null Set,

    Could you describe the hazing you were subjected to in your sports, so that we can discuss the matter from equal footing?

    Leviticus (870be5)

  132. The frustrating thing about this is, no matter what Romney did, it will *always* be worse than what Obama did. And what Romney does during the campaign will *always* be worse than what the president does. The default position is in play. David Horsey confirmed it.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  133. Dana,

    I think your comments at 127 and 128 are very insightful. I would agree that there’s a very good chance that there are things about the incident that the media are not trumpeting because they interfere with the preferred narrative. I also agree that the media has latched onto the victim’s sexuality in a very unfair manner; while I find the incident reprehensible, I kinda doubt it was motivated by anti-gay bias, and I don’t really think that it would change the situation if it were.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  134. the gay-bashings I’ve read about on the internet usually involve contusions at the very very least – it’s rare, if not wholly unprecedented, for the gay-basher to limit himself to the re-styling of the gay-bashee’s hair

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  135. Leviticus, now we are supposed to choose our Presidents based on whether they were saints at age 15? You don’t realize how fucking insane that sounds?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  136. The lies, move far afield of the truth, which often can’t catch up.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304070304577395783718349916.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

    narciso (1c125b)

  137. it’s times like these I are remindered of what the principal told Andie in Pretty in Pink

    “Andie,” he said earnestly, “if you put out signals that you don’t wanna belong, people are gonna make sure that you don’t.”

    And you know what? There’s truth in Andie’s principal’s words. Yes indeed.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  138. Andie, if you put out signals that you don’t want to belong, people are going to make sure to assault you.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  139. i touch you once i touch you twice

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  140. In football, the freshman had to run a gauntlet of seniors. the seniors lined up and the freshman were required to run straight at them. As I stated above, bones were broken(elbowed in the face with pads).
    In basketball, the freshman were herded into a cold shower and hot water was poured on them from above the stall(one kid received a second degree burn from the scalding water).
    In baseball, the freshman had to hold place their gloved hand on the ground while the senior ran over them with their spikes(several kids needed stitches).
    Hopefully, you’re satisfied with these three examples. If not, I can tell you a few personal stories where I was beat up. It was part of growing up back then. I’m not condoning these actions, and at 5’6″ and 126 lbs, I never intimidated or hazed anyone.

    ∅ (721840)

  141. What if you declined to participate?

    Leviticus (870be5)

  142. 143.What if you declined to participate?

    WTF? I liked playing sports. Besides, freshman were routinely beat up in the cafeteria. Why? Because they were freshman! Are you telling me that you never witnessed upperclassman bullying freshman in your HS?
    I grew up in Upstate New York, and during the winter months, freshman didn’t turn their back on upperclassmen when snow was on the ground.

    ∅ (721840)

  143. Leviticus,

    I would hate it if my kid did something like this or had it done to him. If I found out he’d done something like this then I would have punished him and done all I could to make sure he didn’t act that way as an adult.

    But I don’t think what Romney did was a crime according to the standards at that time — especially for teenagers at a boys’ prep school, which I see as similar to a military academy. Whether something would be considered a crime is important to me. Crimes imply a knowledge that an act is more than hurtful and something society views as wrong. It results, or should result, in more culpability.

    I don’t know for sure what a boys’ prep school in the 1950′s was like, but I suspect hazing like this happened and I don’t think they were considered crimes. I know hazing happened in colleges in the 1970′s and, in general, I don’t recall authorities treating many of those incidents as crimes. But even if what Obama and Romney did were both crimes, I care far more what they’ve done since.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  144. I think maybe we are just having a meeting/clash of the nobody wore a bicycle helmet (because there were no bicycle helmets) generation –with the everybody gets a trophy (whether they participate in the game or not) generation. I’m sorry, but things really are different for kids growing up now and in the ’90′s than they were 40-50 years ago.

    elissa (89652e)

  145. JVW,

    Your comments are especially good today.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  146. I’m sorry, but things really are different for kids growing up now and in the ’90′s than they were 40-50 years ago.

    Not if you have a political axe to grind. I think Leviticus has watched “A Few Good Men” too many times. CODE RED! YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TROOF!

    ∅ (721840)

  147. John Lauber screamed and screamed but Mitt and his gang wold not relent. He could hear the greedy clackering scissors draw closer to his face. He felt like crying and maybe he did.

    “Snip snip, homo,” sneered Mitt, and began hacking at John’s hair. “Snip snip snip snip,” Mitt sang, his voice a chorus of sadistic glee.

    John struggled, trying to escape, and managed to free an arm. Moving quicker than God’s vengeance he seized the scissors from his tormenter, and with one neat, incredibly concise movement, he drove those scissors into Mitt Romney’s heart, and twisted.

    As the light faded from Mitt’s eyes, every boy in the room heard the words that awaken them in the dark of night to this day.

    “Snip snip, Mittens,” whispered John. “Snip snip.”

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  148. I should read everything before commenting because it would save me a lot of time. I agree with all of Dana’s comments. In addition, ∅’s descriptions of hazing are consistent with stories I’ve heard.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  149. *would* not relent I mean

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  150. Talk about missing the point almost as thoroughly as Horsey;

    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/may/13/kathleen-parker-gay-debate-distracts-from-economy/

    narciso (1c125b)

  151. The Prez could go seal-clubbing and much of the media would see it as a new epoch for winter sports. ‘Barack Obama Becomes the First President to Kill Six Seals in Under One Minute,’ The New York Times would proudly report, while Twitter would be all abuzz with how hot he looks in snow shoes.”

    Heh. Narciso, this pretty much sums it up, no?

    Dana (4eca6e)

  152. Maybe I missed it earlier in the comments or in your original story…. but what about a young teenage Barry bullying the girl in school, and she ran away in tears?

    john b (98ab01)

  153. 132. I was wrong to bet Greece would default today, somehow they scraped together the cash. Nonetheless, the run began in earnest on their banks, and another round of elections was announced.

    Exit is assured with Portugal and Spain to follow just as certainly.

    Sammy delved into Romney’s response that this ‘breakup’ was “hypothetical”. i.e., he is neither prepared nor has even considered the causes. No doubt much of his fortune will survive but fortunes are being lost almost daily now.

    The Global Financial system is coming apart and in four year’s time what are the chances that leadership beholden to the old order of finance will have navigated the RESET in America’s best interest?

    None, or nearly so. And that will mean no re-election for McBain. Let’s get started on the successor this time out.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  154. yeah Romney lacks a certain sense of urgency I’ve noticed Mr. gary

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  155. 138. “High risk, high reward”.

    How antithetical, incoherent, cwazie even.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  156. Andie, if you put out signals that you don’t want to belong, people are going to make sure to assault you.

    Comment by Leviticus — 5/15/2012 @ 5:40 pm

    Yup. And then you make them sorry they did. And, then, if you want to tell your daddy, your daddy has a talk with their daddy.

    nk (875f57)

  157. OK – I had to be good until work was done for the day !

    She Who Must Be Obeyed and I were discussing this last night … and we both agreed that, if there was one thing we learned as parents, it was that, when several daughters decided to give a younger sister a haircut (when said younger sister was too young to give informed consent), we didn’t actually have to be told about it by said younger sister …

    Similarly, if Romney et al had given Lauber a hacked haircut, whether forced or not, SWMBO and I sorta have to wonder how Lauber’s family didn’t notice … since Lauber’s family doesn’t seem to remember such an incident, we have to suspect that it probably has as much veracity as other MSM politically-motivated stories …

    Icy #62 – to put it simply, if someone goes to school with long hair down past their eye in front, and comes home without said long hair covering the forehead, dontcha suspect family would notice ? And, just perhaps, ask why ?

    Alasdair (e7cb73)

  158. I cited Parker, because she apparently didn’t get the memo, that Maxwell’s story was bogus,

    narciso (1c125b)

  159. but Obama promised “a net spending cut” remember?

    there’s every reason to anticipate that Romney’s governings will also sharply diverge from what he leads us to expect, and maybe they will diverge in ways what will be beneficial

    who knows

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  160. Yes,narciso, but the statement still rings true – no matter what this president does it will always be spun, twisted and aired as a positive by his water carriers. So, while the original story is highly suspect, Parker manages to make what I consider valid points about the relationship between Obama and the media, as well as the gullibility of of the American people. Or at least 46% of them.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  161. Btw, not interested in correcting the narrative just yet:
    https://twitter.com/#!/ashleyrparker

    narciso (1c125b)

  162. but Obama promised “a net spending cut” remember?

    Sure. The military is now spending less on nets. But only the military. And only on nets.

    Chuck Bartowski (0072e5)

  163. I sorta have to wonder how Lauber’s family didn’t notice … since Lauber’s family doesn’t seem to remember such an incident

    You think a boy would always tell his mommy and daddy he was given a forced haircut?

    I think some would probably shave his head and then tell his folks it was his decision.

    That’s the thing with hazing… there’s often an element of humiliation involved. And some people do not go out of their way to advertise they were hazed. So no, I don’t expect the family to remember something they were never claimed to have witnessed.

    Dustin (330eed)

  164. 136, 142, 145. I’m just a tad younger than Mitty and wrestled and played football. I don’t think Sammy’s “hippie” was even common yet and “faggot” was barely on our radar.

    Most of the instigation to despise the “blow comb” boys was from coaches.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  165. That’s the thing with hazing… there’s often an element of humiliation involved. And some people do not go out of their way to advertise they were hazed.

    That’s because you’re expected to “man-up”. If you proved you could “take it”, then the hazing usually stops. At least that’s been my non-soccer experience.

    ∅ (721840)

  166. if you google “blow comb boy” you’re the only for reals result Mr. gary on the whole internet

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  167. Alasdair,

    It’s my understanding this happened at prep school, and they may have been boarders. If so, his parents may not have seen him until a break or a holiday.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  168. Most of the instigation to despise the “blow comb” boys was from coaches.

    That was my experience—usually an assistant coach. The head coach was always a teacher at the school, and would have been held accountable. Although, the head coach always seemed to arrive about a half hour after practice started when the hazing occurred.

    ∅ (721840)

  169. 169. Well, my coach, Harley Something, was AD up until a decade ago when his collected “jokes” in sleeved loose leaf binder got “released”–without his authorization.

    Career was over within days.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  170. the assistant coach smirked softly to himself… those fancy blow comb boys were in for a surprise today by gum.

    Testing once more to make sure the bucket of pigs’ blood was secure, he played out the rope to the makeshift alcove he had created out of wrassling mats. And he waited.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  171. The economy is in shambles, yet left wingers are obsessed with a haircut that took place during the early years of the Lyndon Johnson Administration. If only they were as concerned with the fate of Mary Jo Kopechne, or the blind Chinese dissident Mr. Chin, as they are with John Lauber.
    But even the lefties recognize that Obama’s record as President is a disaster. If they believed otherwise, they’d be focused on showcasing his record, rather than talking about haircuts in 1964.

    I realize that a lot of lefties fantasize about applying their world view to every institution, every arena, every club, and every community.
    The Big 0 said it himself, five days prior to the ’08 election—”In five days, we’re going to fundamentally transform America.”

    We can also see the American left wing propensity toward totalitarianism (by the way, that’s in a statist context, not a Maoist or Stalinist context)in the ObamaCare process,(“We’ll have to pass the bill to see what’s in it !”) as well as in the legislation itself. (“You must buy something you don’t want to buy, because we say so.”)

    But there are private organizations and schools that have had hazing of some sort or another as part of the “culture” of that organization or school.
    The military academies, for instance, are funded by federal taxpayers. Yet there is hazing there which is “ritual” that would make the haircut episode look like Tiddly Winks.

    Lots of athletic teams, at the high school, college, and pro levels, engage in the sort of hazing that may have occurred at Romney’s school. And much of it is much “crazier” than this haircutting episode, which was probably more of an enforcement of the dress code (“no long hair”) than anything else.

    When it comes to passing judgment on “other” cultures, such as the brutality inherent in so much of Sharia Law, the left wingers are shamelessly silent about it. In fact, they’re often assertive of a moral equivalency as a defense of what I’ll politely refer to as “hazing” rituals that take place in those societies.
    It’s also ironic that so often how the lefties like to transfer the blame from the shoulders of a criminal, to the shoulders of society. “Society made him do it !”
    Or, in the case of Robert KKK. Byrd, the lefties like to excuse his actions by asserting that he was merely influenced by the culture surrounding him.

    It’s just so funny how the lefties allow for none of these “excuses” for Mitt Romney when he was 16 or 17.

    In the eyes of the lefties, he’s not allowed to be excused by “youthful indiscretions,” nor by “that was the culture,” nor by “hey, that happened a long time ago” as was the excuse the lefties allowed Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd.

    It’s really an Orwellian Universe that the lefties inhabit.

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  172. 169, 171. Yeah, Harley was assistant in wrestling and football. The head football coach, Ken Hollub ended up in UW-LaCrosse and their Hall of Fame, they’re a power to this day in Division III.

    The head wrestling coach was my metal shop teacher, Zamzow. He was great with the heavy weights and we had the state champ my freshman year and a high finisher at 190, Holm and Canham.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  173. From the Move-On website (via a Gateway Pundit alert):

    Write your letter to the editor about what Romney’s past bullying says about him today.

    As I wrote about Romney in a Huffington Post op-ed today: “The man who rallied his chums to bully a vulnerable kid has produced a set of prescriptions that are striking in the degree to which they advantage his NASCAR-owning buddies over everyone else.” And those policies tell us exactly who Romney thinks counts and who doesn’t:

    The wealthiest 1% deserve bigger tax breaks, while people who rely on Social Security and Medicare should have their benefits cut.

    Wall Street executives deserve a bailout, not prosecution, for crashing our economy; while auto workers should face unemployment, foreclosure, and bankruptcy.

    Trust-fund kids, like Romney, deserve the best education money can buy, while lower-income kids should have Pell grant funding slashed.

    Mitt Romney thought he was teaching Lauber a lesson when he held him down to cut off his hair. Instead, it’s a lesson for all of us about what kind of man he is—and what kind of president he would be.

    But if Romney and the right-wing media get their way, it’s a lesson most Americans will miss. That’s why we have to tell it in one of the most read sections of every newspaper—the letters page—so Romney can’t count us out.

    Write your letter to the editor about how Romney is trying to count the 99% out.

    Y’all might enjoy keeping an eye out for letters in your local rags from concerned “hometown” citizens which contain all or chunks of this suggested verbiage. Originality not required–just astroturf that needs no thinking associated with it.

    elissa (825cc9)

  174. Only the hairdresser knows for sure.

    mg (44de53)

  175. That’s because you’re expected to “man-up”. If you proved you could “take it”, then the hazing usually stops. At least that’s been my non-soccer experience.

    Comment by ∅

    Right.

    And I wasn’t there and I assume the way it’s being reported is not the reality of it.

    And it was 45 years ago. So assuming for the sake of argument that Romney and a friend bullied someone and cut their hair… that’s just not a fair way to measure the man after decades of life beyond one bad action. Even though I would say that action was wrong.

    Dustin (330eed)

  176. I told my father (mechanized mountain troops) and my uncle (mountain infantry) that my broken nose happened in auto shop. It’s not fear of humiliation. You carry your own water.

    nk (875f57)

  177. 179. Words to live by.

    Proof is the sorry bastard of Franklin Davis who blames everyone for everything:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/05/15/why_some_dems_are_fretting_over_team_obama_114151.html

    A dead raccoon would be preferrable as POTUS and, by god, we’ll prolly get our second choice.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  178. It’s not fear of humiliation. You carry your own water.

    Well, if you can’t, it’s embarrassing. But regardless, it’s hard to see why we should be discussing it when we can all grant that Romney and Obama probably did some things when they were kids which do not reflect their judgment as well as their more recent behavior does.

    Dustin (330eed)

  179. gary – Lyndon LaRouche is counting on your support again.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  180. At that time, I had a job after school, at a gas station. The boss lent me his .32 for when I was alone on Friday and Saturday nights. I carried it tucked into my belt on my right hip. Bullies were meaningless. I did not go crying to my daddy and it appears Lauber’s family is proud that he did not, either.

    nk (875f57)

  181. “That’s because you’re expected to “man-up”. If you proved you could “take it”, then the hazing usually stops. At least that’s been my non-soccer experience.”

    - Null Set

    Well. When I asked, I just wanted to make sure you hadn’t let some muscle-bound junior shove a lacrosse stick up your ass or something. Being that you’re apparently all about subservience to upperclassmen. If you want to argue that your generation had lower standards of decency than mine, that’s your prerogative.

    Besides, I’m not going to stoop to defending the physicality of soccer to a baseball player.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  182. Everyone’s (except nk) is talking about this in the context of hazing, in the context of sports. Why? This has nothing to do with sports. The hazing that goes on in sports is directed at a group. It’s humiliating, but the communal nature of the humiliation tends to build solidarity. That’s the point.

    If things happened the way they’ve been portrayed, this guy was singled out for humiliation. Nothing Null Set or anyone else has said indicates the kind of singling-out that took place here. So it’s not hazing: it’s bullying, and there’s a difference. nk may be right that the guy should’ve defended himself better, but it takes what Romney and his crew did to a different level of dickishness.

    (And that’s setting aside the fact that a GROUP of these people HELD HIM DOWN to forcibly remove his hair. We can table that particular rapey angle of the story for the time being…)

    Leviticus (870be5)

  183. Leviticus,

    I haven’t been talking about sports hazing. I’ve been talking about school hazing. But it doesn’t matter because that’s still the correct analogy. This was hazing at a boys’ prep school and the communal nature/goal is the same — to build solidarity among the students at a small school.

    I think it’s called peer pressure to conform and while I’m not saying it’s a good thing, I think it is a common impulse for most children and teens.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  184. There is no humiliation in defeat. There is shame in not fighting.

    I don’t believe the story. The Lauber family has denounced it.

    I’m just talking.

    nk (875f57)

  185. I was at Lane Tech, Chicago. Magnet school. One of two in Chicago, then. 4,000 students. Some rabunctious. We were smart, but we were adolescent boys.

    (Whitney Young, the one they built for the Southside (black), is likely the best public high school in the country, now.)

    nk (875f57)

  186. Leviticus,

    I was not referring to sports hazing at all. And whether at a boarding school or during sports, hazing is not something I see as a positive, however, I am speaking as a woman when I make that comment. Anything that is a semi-violent act toward another is not something I can relate to.

    With that, I have two schools of thought on the matter and I’m a bit torn.

    Firstly, I think adults believe hazing to be a ritual that builds solidarity in a team and or group of students, but I don’t believe students understand that. Most young men in school have not yet learned to discipline their anger, aggression, and hazing provides an outlet to dominate someone more vulnerable and unable to defend themselves.

    OTH, I think that my thoughts above reflect the further intrusion (for lack of a better term) of women into what was once considered a man’s world. Hazing has always routinely occurred in the military, sports, and even in Sparta. These were the natural places of men, these were the accepted behaviors to survive, to become a cohesive unit, and to be able to fight for a common goal. Now the waters are muddied and confused by women like me who look at all of this with a feminine eye and think ‘ew’.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  187. I agree halfway with Dana. Boys grabass[verb], it makes us stronger men.

    nk (875f57)

  188. 183. In Gym class we were playing flag football, I called a fowl on the other team and Ole Koehler(he wrestled 175 without cutting a pound, yet separated the 190′s shoulder) decked me.

    Gave him a cross-body block at the ankles on the ensuing kick-off. I was shocked to see some of my team running laps-coach Hollub sent them off ’cause they refused to play after Ole’s punch.

    Ole’s teammates just laughed at him for getting suckered. Never heard another word.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  189. foul*

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  190. On my side of the mountain, Dana, the word was ταυρομαχουν, “lock horns”/bullfight”.

    nk (875f57)

  191. Dana,

    Both you and DRJ object that you have not been talking about this in the context of sports hazing – just hazing generally. You’re both right, and I apologize for my over-generalization.

    I think the point is the same either way: as you point out, hazing is meant to build solidarity amongst the members of a unit. That’s why it happens so much in sports, the military, fraternities, etc. – there’s a solidarity-building component to hazing that makes it useful it settings where solidarity is essential.

    This was one person, singled out for humiliation. There was no solidarity-building here, because the humiliation inflicted was not inflicted on a group. If the humiliation is not inflicted on the group, there’s no solidarity built. Because of that, I think hazing is the wrong term; I think bullying is the right term, if not something stronger.

    DRJ’s point about peer pressure to conform is of course appreciated. I’d find it more plausible if Romney hadn’t been the guy with the scissors.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  192. You know, nk, this is yet another reason that I believe sons need both mothers and fathers in their lives. Most mothers are not equipped to understand the machinations of boys becoming men to the degree that things like hazing and boys grabass can benefit them.

    I’m always grateful that my boys have had their dad to lead them to manhood (and my boys are even more grateful!).

    Dana (4eca6e)

  193. Just “grabass.”

    What nk is leaving out of the equation (to make his point, I understand) is that a real man teaches his sons to temper the joy of horseplay with a love of justice and an abhorrence of ganging up on anyone weaker than oneself.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  194. Actually, he said explicitly that what he found most offensive here was the ganging-up bit. Scratch that part.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  195. Well said, Leviticus.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  196. But the point is that there’s more to manhood than loving the scrum. A man’s first duty is to a just God.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  197. Oh yes, Dana.

    I do pro bono post-divorce work. My first paragraph starts, “… a child needs both a mother and a father.”

    Daughters need both parents, too. I have given my daughter weapons, my first wife has given her surfing lessons, we both have given her horses.

    nk (875f57)

  198. I am an agressive-agressive person, Leviticus, I fight only people who claim to be stronger than I am. I do not kick babies. I do not pick on the weak.

    nk (875f57)

  199. I know that. It’s one of the reasons I respect you.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  200. Leviticus,

    They were building solidarity by pressuring the outcast to conform, and that reinforced the group’s values. Children and teenagers do that.

    Maybe it was the times. Maybe it was the prep school. Maybe it was Romney. My guess is it was the prep school environment, which in those days was similar to an Ivy League fraternity.

    As to bullying vs hazing, I think the distinction is something we might do now but we need more facts to know for sure. However, I don’t think it was a distinction that would have made a difference then.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  201. 201. “fight only…”

    And that goes double for lying sacks:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2012/05/15/tom-coburn-obama-told-me-hes-willing-to-go-a-long-way-to-reform-entitlements-in-his-second-term/

    Oklahoma, your sins are f*cking us over as well.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  202. The voters know who Obama is. He’s an appealing (not my opinion), undisciplined liberal who thinks he’s a centrist.

    Yup. They know who he is. He’s the guy who lied to them about the guy they thought they were voting for back in 2008. It turns out he’s America’s first gay prostitute Preezy.

    It may just be they’re just not into him anymore. No matter how much time he spends looking presidential by doing presidential-looking big-picture stuff like slow jamming the news with Jimmy Fallon, going to fundraisers with George Clooney and Ricky Martin, and dropping by to discuss pop culture with the ladies of “The View.” You know, maintaining a high-profile demonstrating that comment about “forgetting the recession” was just a momentary slip and he’s now focused like a laser on the economy from here to the election.

    There’s also encouraging news for Romney in the nationwide poll.

    Since becoming the presumptive Republican nominee, Romney’s favorable-unfavorable rating has jumped to 50%-41%, his best ever and in the same neighborhood as Obama’s 52%-46% standing.

    The petulant guy in the WH is starting to make Romney look charming in comparison, it seems.

    Steve (773f84)

  203. 35. What is turning off the reservation occupants is thie Steppin Init gang can’t form a queue anywhere near the right window.

    They’re an pain in the arse and an intolerable embarrassment.

    Comment by gary gulrud — 5/15/2012 @ 9:42 am

    True. Here’s some must-see TV. Jake Tapper makes Jay Carney tap dance like a madman as the Obama campaign breaks out the Bain-is-satan-incarnate campaign against piratical private equity firms. On the same day Obama goes to a fundraiser hosted by the head of the Blackstone group. A, uh, private equity firm. That, uh, Tapper notes the Obama administration has accused of being piratical.

    WH On Defense Over Private Equity Mixed Messages

    I would say something along the lines of, “as Tapper notes, the only private equity firms the Obama administration seems to have a problem with are the ones supporting or associated with Romney and not the ones associated or supporting his royal highness.”

    But it’s more like, “as everyone has noticed…”

    Steve (773f84)

  204. 206. And the TEAs are nowhere to be found:

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2881907/posts

    Late entrant Deb Fischer just won. Dimmis are going to hang on to Senate?

    Not bloody likely. WI, ND and NB swing in my circle of the wasteland.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  205. A guy from suburban New Jersey by the name of Eugene Orowitz attended USC on a track & field scholarship in the mid-1950s—he was a champion javelin thrower in high school.
    Anyhow, he had long-ish hair while at SC, and as aforementioned, that was the mid-1950s.

    One day, a few of the other athletes held him down and cut his hair.

    Although his javelin career was cut short by a shoulder injury, he was “somehow” able to rebound from the haircut setback, and facillitated a very productive life, although he died prematurely of pancreatic cancer at the age of 54, in 1991.

    We now remember him for his stage name—Michael Landon.
    It’s really possible to overcome a “traumatic” hazing which occurred during one’s youth.

    But this bizarre obsession with the haircut indicent at Romney’s prep school reinforces the notion that lefties love to wallow in victimhood.

    Can’t the people of “MoveOn.org” find the strength to, uh, move on ?

    The economy is in shambles. Let’s talk about tax cuts rather than hair cuts.

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  206. _____________________________________________

    I’d find it more plausible if Romney hadn’t been the guy with the scissors.

    And just how bothered you are, or anyone else, for that matter (hello, MSM!), by the specter of a post-teenager several decades ago being either a bully, a joker, a jerk, or a frat boy pulling a hazing incident, is determined by whether he’s a liberal or conservative, a registered Democrat or a registered Republican?

    I don’t mind truly moderate to conservative people being unhappy about such a matter, but when I think of liberals expressing even a bit of indignation towards an incident of bullying — in this age of post-Monica-Lewinsky, Paula Jones and Bubba Clinton, etc, Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers, etc — excuse me while I let out a big guffaw and loud snicker.

    Mark (3f126e)

  207. Can’t the people of “MoveOn.org” find the strength to, uh, move on ?

    The economy is in shambles. Let’s talk about tax cuts rather than hair cuts

    Hair cuts are so much easier to shape into a working narrative. The economy, on the other hand, is only convenient to use for political gain until actual hard numbers out you.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  208. Mitty says, without obvious discomfort, that he doesn’t remember the incident. Unfortunately, he’s creepy enough that we can’t really kick the idea out of our head.

    I find it unlikey, and no witness has come forward.

    He’s still a stinker.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  209. 208. “a very productive life”

    The best, satyr or no.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  210. I think that Mr. gulrud sums it up fairly well.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  211. Of course, it should not remain a serious issue. It can serve to confirm some preconceived notions (like mine and Mr. gulrud’s) of Mitt Romney’s strangely robotic empathy-void, but beyond that… we would of course be better served by a discussion of serious issues.

    Like why the Laffer Curve is more complicated than a categorical prescription for tax cuts.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  212. you have to know Mitt feels like a complete heel and that he’s gosh darn sorry for any hurt he may have caused the fella, and it’s killing him inside that his wife and kids found out about this

    we still love you dad

    I know you do boys I’m just sorry I let you down

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  213. If only for POTUS, we could have an Abraham Heschel or Albert Schweitzer.

    A Lincoln or a Washington.

    Why is Your face hidden?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  214. Romney will do fine Mr. gary there’s bushels and bushels of low-hanging fruit to be picked

    unless of course après obama le déluge, which is a valid concern I think

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  215. Royal Lippizaner Stallions

    Man, that just sounds so fuckin’ gay it’s absurd.

    Sounds the name of some world-famous GLBT Acting Troupe.

    Smock Puppet, 10th Dan Snark Master (8e2a3d)

  216. It’s no surprise that this election season will show elements of the right incapable of distinguishing between a cool dude and an entitled jerk.

    FortunateSon (77ac66)

  217. Well. When I asked, I just wanted to make sure you hadn’t let some muscle-bound junior shove a lacrosse stick up your ass or something. Being that you’re apparently all about subservience to upperclassmen. If you want to argue that your generation had lower standards of decency than mine, that’s your prerogative.

    Besides, I’m not going to stoop to defending the physicality of soccer to a baseball player.

    You must have missed my remark and question at 145.:

    Besides, freshman were routinely beat up in the cafeteria. Why? Because they were freshman! Are you telling me that you never witnessed upperclassman bullying freshman in your HS?

    I chose to earn their respect(if you can call it that) by my determination on the field. My experience was through the prism of sports. Bullying has been going on forever, and I don’t think what Mitt did was any more egregious than what I witnessed. That’s all. It was handled differently back then, and I don’t think of it in terms of decency. If it makes you feel better to claim higher decency standards, go ahead. I’m not going to consider someone’s actions a generation ago as disqualification for public service. Most people GROW UP, and the vast majority of bullies in HS turned out to be decent productive members of society who wouldn’t condone their own HS hazing/bullying those many years ago.

    BTW, soccer is a very physical sport, especially with regard to stamina.

    ∅ (721840)

  218. It can serve to confirm some preconceived notions (like mine and Mr. gulrud’s) of Mitt Romney’s strangely robotic empathy-void,

    What led you to those preconceived notions?

    ∅ (721840)

  219. It’s no surprise that this election season will show elements of the right incapable of distinguishing between a cool dude and an entitled jerk.

    Comment by FortunateSon — 5/16/2012 @ 4:16 am

    Sound familiar? And richly ironic.

    JD (faa1d8)

  220. How about they find that little girl that Obama bullied? or was she a “composite”?

    AngieS. (5593e7)

  221. You know, it’s funny. If someone remarks on this:

    http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/05/13/051312-news-romney-web/

    Well, they are credulous rubes. willing to believe anything!

    But if we go to stories about how someone did something cruel at 17 (and of course this analysis only applies to one candidate), why, that is journalism. And the stories must be true.

    Jonah Goldberg’s new book is very relevant. We are ruled by our cliches.

    As for Romney, I’m much more concerned with his views on the economy and SCOTUS appointments than 50 year old stories about high school.

    Axelrod isn’t.

    Simon Jester (edfa65)

  222. gary – Bonus negative points for Romney being a creepy Mormon, right?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  223. 220. What led you to those preconceived notions?

    Comment by ∅ — 5/16/2012 @ 6:26 am

    Well, if we are to believe Marx. . .

    Seriously, I don’t see why it’s so hard to believe Romney wouldn’t remember. He was after all nearly killed in a well-documented traffic accident in France. The police at the scene thought he was dead; they wrote “he’s dead” in his passport. I know he was knocked unconscious. I’ve read various accounts describing him as being in a coma, but I don’t know how long he was out. Romney does say it changed him, and his life.

    Assuming, of course, that the gossip column intended as a political hit piece in the WaPo is describing an event that actually happened. Unlike Romney’s traffic accident it isn’t documented. One of the the main sources, according to the WaPo, never knew about the incident at the time. The WaPo “corrected” it’s story and tried to claim that source first heard about it a few weeks ago “before” the WaPo contacted him. But the same source, Stu White, told ABC that he first learned of the purported incident “when” the WaPo contacted him.

    Then there’s this:

    Automobile Magazine: Mitt Romney – “I love American cars”

    You usually don’t expect serious reporting from a car rag, and I’m sure they didn’t intend this article in their June 2012 edition as serious reportage.

    But it goes back to Romney’s years growing up in Detroit, including his H.S. years, goes back to many of the same sources cited in the WaPo article and they don’t talk about Romney in at all the same way the WaPo wants you to believe.

    I’m talking factual stuff they get wrong. These sources, 50 years on, and in two different publications, can’t even agree on whether or not Romney owned his own car in H.S.

    I suppose if one by ideology or by virtue of having developed your proper socio-economic class consciousness you believe Romney is a gay bashing, rich, privileged Republican than the WaPo can print a shoddy article and you’ll believe it. So shoddy that the supposed victim’s family objects to the portrayal of the victim as inaccurate, in what way they won’t say, and you’ll believe it.

    Such is the power of preconceived notions.

    Steve (773f84)

  224. Comment by gary gulrud — 5/15/2012 @ 10:00 pm

    I read Albert Schweitzer’s biography when I was nine. Borrowed it from a guy who was then in medical school. No, Albert Schweitzer would never want to be President.

    nk (875f57)

  225. Such is the power of preconceived notions.

    I’m hoping Leviticus and Mr. Gulrud will share their preconceived notions about President Obama. Somehow I doubt they’ll refer to his bullying a young girl or drug use.

    ∅ (721840)

  226. My preconceived notion of Obama, nullset, is that Obama realized at a young age that he could never earn a living working at anything, so he found the best alternate form of welfare. Snouting in the public trough.

    nk (875f57)

  227. Explains his gig at a law firm.

    VetthePrez (77ac66)

  228. Summer associate. That’s where he met Michelle, she was already a full associate. He did not pass the test, they did not hire him.

    nk (875f57)

  229. “It was handled differently back then, and I don’t think of it in terms of decency. If it makes you feel better to claim higher decency standards, go ahead. I’m not going to consider someone’s actions a generation ago as disqualification for public service. Most people GROW UP, and the vast majority of bullies in HS turned out to be decent productive members of society who wouldn’t condone their own HS hazing/bullying those many years ago.”

    - Null Set

    That’s a fair point. I think DRJ has been making it too.

    I’m sorry for the snark in my previous comments. Yesterday was kind of a cranky afternoon.

    I may find Romney’s actions in this episode to more disturbing than simple hazing (again, if the episode took place and took place as reported, which is certainly up in the air). However, I think you are right to point out that most people do grow up, and it would certainly seem that Romney has. What should of course matter is who he grew up to be, and what he grew up to do, not who he was and what he did when he was a teenager.

    My preconceived notion of Obama as a shameless chameleon power-grabber is based largely on the embarrassing brevity of his time in the Senate. So funny that progressives jumped all over Sarah Palin for her somewhat limited experience going into the VP role, while conveniently ignoring the fact that Obama served less than half of a full term as a US senator before running for President. My preconceived notion of Obama as less bright than he likes to believe is based on his refusal to release his college transcripts, something Bush and Kerry did without any hullabaloo. My notion of Obama as an ineffective pushover is actually post-conceived.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  230. Nothing wrong with letting the woman take care of you. Has to be more than one reason why have not exterminated them. ;)

    nk (875f57)

  231. I hadn’t heard about Obama’s bullying of a young girl. If that’s true, it’s just as reprehensible as what Romney did.

    I don’t care as much about his drug use because I have a pretty libertarian approach to drug use. As long as he didn’t hurt anyone, I find his drug use less bothersome than a forced haircut.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  232. If not more reprehensible, I should add. Again, hadn’t heard about it and don’t know the specifics.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  233. I was referring though, to his time as an associate and of counsel to a law firm.

    But no he didn’t go into Sidley Austin after school. Instead he graduated into position as a fellow at Chicago Law school — probably much better than being a first year associate in many ways. It seems to have developed into what I guess has been the main money maker for his family — the sale of his books. About as private sector as you can get.

    VetthePrez (77ac66)

  234. OT, if Leviticus will permit me a law lesson, should he ever want to do post-decree work.

    Post-decree judges are overwhelmed, hundreds of cases a day, hearing all kinds of nonsense. This is how you do it:

    For her petition, the mother respectfully states, a child needs both a father and a mother. The children need food, shelter, and clothing. They also need order in their lives.

    Wherefore, the mother respectfully requests that the court compel the father to adhere to the child support and visitation schedule ordered on the divorce judgment, entered by ___, on ___ attached hereto.

    Keep it short, keep it simple, keep it clean, but keep it hot. I don’t know about your jurisdiction, but up here the hearings are recorded. Don’t bother the judge with a lot of words on a lot of paper. Just state your case, the way I said.

    nk (875f57)

  235. Thanks.

    “Less is more” is a lesson that I have not learned as well as I should. It’s something I’m going to have to work on going forward.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  236. Truly,

    Lawyers do have a habit of overwhelming judges with paper. Even if you give them courtesy copies a week in advance, they still have their own lives and families they want to go home to.

    Keep it clean, I suppose, is foremost. Don’t go into side issues.

    nk (875f57)

  237. Leviticus, Obama picking on a young girl was something he wrote about in his book along with eating dog meat. It’s been discussed on quite a few sites recently. She had a specific name but I can’t recall it. I think people are starting to grasp that they don’t know how much of President Obama’s “life story” is fact or fiction. But this about the young girl was something he wrote about and/or allowed to be put in the book. A quick google search should tee it up for you.

    elissa (d8e278)

  238. 227. The Dunhams moved to Honolulu from Seattle during Ann’s senior year in HS. Stanley picked up a carousing bud named Franklin Marshall Davis who impregnated Ann before her freshman year.

    They got Barack Sr., student from Kenya, to play cuckold, no license, no wedding guests have surfaced.

    gary gulrud (1de2db)

  239. Elissa – it was Coretta, no? But maybe that was a composite.

    JD (0d91a1)

  240. Mike K?

    Icy (0b5229)

  241. Ummmm…

    Upon reading that excerpt, I find the comparisons between the incident and the alleged forced haircut unsatisfactory. To say the least. One shove from one little kid to another in the face of a “So&So and So&So, sitting in a tree” chant (and after an amiable session of play) is not even remotely similar to a group of teenagers ambushing and pinning a crying teenager to the ground while another teenager gives the crying teenager a forced haircut. Not even remotely similar.

    Either way… man. I wish I could hang a sign around my digital neck on this site that said “I have absolutely no respect for and no investment in the success of Barack Obama. Say whatever you will about him – I most likely agree with you.” It would save me a lot of trouble in responding to tu quoque arguments that I don’t disagree with in the first place, but have no bearing on my criticisms of people like Mitt Romney.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  242. Yes. Her name was Coretta. That’s it JD. Thanks.

    elissa (d8e278)

  243. Forgive me. Foremost is being on time. Nothing makes a better first impression than standing up and saying, “Present Your Honor”, when your case is called, while buttoning your jacket and walking to the podium. Always stand up when you talk to the judge. Also, always stand up when the jury, or judge, enters or leaves the room.

    nk (875f57)

  244. #prayforCoretta, even if it is a composite.

    JD (266e42)

  245. and/or allowed to be put in the book.

    True. He was willing to associate himself with that claim of bullying.

    What’s odd is how little the media wants to discuss that, yet will vet even unemployed people appearing in Romney’s ads.

    Dustin (330eed)

  246. I have not follwed this discussion all that well. Coretta is his only girlfriend before Michelle?

    (I don’t blame him, I am a monogamist, there was only one shining ruby for me. But, dang, I had girlfriends since I was five. Why even mention her at all?)

    nk (875f57)

  247. No, nk. Coretta was a young girl that Teh One shoved, when other kids made fun of him for playing with her.

    JD (266e42)

  248. Leviticus, I posited no equivalency, did I? I just was trying to help catch you up on a story that you stated you were not aware of.

    Despite your clearly stated ambivalence toward President Obama, now I’m interested in your immediate response which was to essentially pooh pooh the Coretta story, though. Barack Obama certainly thought it worthy of writing about– so it must have had some special relevance or meaning to him. (Memoirs and autobiographies usually include things from the past that stick in the subject’s mind even years later.) Frankly, Coretta and Lauber themselves are the only people who knew how and to what extent the alleged incidents affected them, both then and later.

    To me, the real lesson here is a good reminder that most kids have it in them to be mean and even cruel. And thankfully, most of us outgrow it and go on to lead productive and law abiding lives. Some can even grow up to be the President of the United States.

    elissa (d8e278)

  249. I’m sorry for the snark in my previous comments. Yesterday was kind of a cranky afternoon.

    No need to apologize. I ♥ snark. Give me your best snark. BTW, congratulations on your law school endeavors. I just returned to college last semester, so I doubt I’ll be around much after the summer session starts(May19th).

    Good luck!

    ∅ (721840)

  250. “Leviticus, I posited no equivalency, did I? I just was trying to help catch you up on a story that you stated you were not aware of.”

    - elissa

    No, you didn’t. It’s just that people (not you) ask me a bunch of pointed questions about the media’s disparate treatment of Obama, about double-standards surrounding Obama; I feel like I’m required to address them as a sign of good faith, but I have no desire whatsoever to defend Obama or defend the media’s hero-worship of him. I don’t like the man, I don’t respect the man. I wish I could just stipulate every criticism of Obama that people raise, every criticism of the media that people raise.

    Little frustration coming through on my part. Sorry.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  251. Null Set,

    Congratulations on your return, and good luck to you as well.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  252. To me, the real lesson here is a good reminder that most kids have it in them to be mean and even cruel. And thankfully, most of us outgrow it and go on to lead productive and law abiding lives. Some can even grow up to be the President of the United States.

    Couldn’t agree more, elissa. While I was never really a bully(I can’t say I remember any incidents in my youth), I’m sure many of my classmates thought I was an @$$hole at times.

    My senior year in HS and my first couple of years in college, I wasn’t particularly charitable toward others. I gauge this by whether I’d tell my parents how I acted(even to this very day). I’m not trying to excuse Mitt’s bullying, but I wouldn’t want to be judged in perpetuum based on a couple years of my life. If there’s no redemption, who would be fit to serve?

    ∅ (721840)

  253. Leviticus, I can’t speak for others here, but my problem with this Mitt bullying story is the inequality of the media coverage. Others may hate President Obama, but I don’t. It is my belief that he would never truly tell the American people what he actually believes. BTW, I feel that most politicians hide their true beliefs in order to get elected—including Mitt Romney.
    It would be easier to be objective if I thought the media treated all candidates equally, but they don’t(IMHO). I especially don’t like being labelled a racist for disagreeing with President Obama’s policies, as if I’d be more favorable towards him if his hue was paler. It’s insulting.

    ∅ (721840)

  254. 220, 228 my crudities at 241 were meant for you {}. Obama is a true Manchurian, con artiste, pretender. His ‘story’ total fabulism. A priviledged street urchin.

    Romney is what he appears, a cold slab of cod. Blessed in having a near-great man for a father, cursed with no life-animating essence.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  255. 257.220, 228 my crudities at 241 were meant for you {}. Obama is a true Manchurian, con artiste, pretender. His ‘story’ total fabulism. A priviledged street urchin.

    Romney is what he appears, a cold slab of cod. Blessed in having a near-great man for a father, cursed with no life-animating essence.

    OK…Thanks?

    ∅ (721840)

  256. Nice one for bothering to talk about this, I feel truly regarding it in addition to absolutely adore knowing more to do with this in turn matter. Just in case possibilities, while you create abilities, does one views upgrading your trusty blog website with the help of much more insight? This can be very for people.

    Rudolph Slanina (48cb60)

  257. 258. Better than [for you], “in reply to”

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  258. WOT?

    ∅ (721840)

  259. This can by very for people, indeed.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  260. 227, 255. There are those who are fit, but as nk points out they’d have no desire, e.g., Heschel and Schweitzer.

    They choose never to risk their souls and families.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  261. They choose never to risk their souls and families.

    Or risking the exposure of a HS bullying incident reported by a hyperventilating lapdog press. Go figure.

    ∅ (721840)

  262. OT but this will help me(and others) sleep soundly:

    http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?ID=270185&R=R1

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  263. I was at work and for some reason this thread popped into my head. I tried to read the previous posts to see if anyone made this point, and I didn’t see anything put quite this way.

    Has anyone asked David Horsey which one we ought to prefer to be President.

    One guy the press will vet, the other guy the press not only won’t vet but will act as his agent.

    We know the press will send people to dig up every bit of dirt they can find on a Romney or a Palin. To the extent of of tracking down their old classmates or look sending teams to Alaska to pore over e-mails.

    We know the only way we’ll get even the mildest of negative information about Obama is if he writes a book and tells us ourselves.

    Give me Eric Scissorhands!

    Steve (773f84)

  264. 22. Comment by SPQR — 5/15/2012 @ 8:32 am

    Meanwhile, the Obama campaign put out an ad blaming Romney for the bankruptcy of a steel company under Bain’s control.

    After Newark Mayor Cory Booker gave a somewhat unexpected and very disapproving answer ["it's nauseating to me" , he said] about the Bain ads on Meet the Press, and then half took it back, Obama defended the ads:

    http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/21/was-cory-booker-right-about-the-attacks-on-private-equity/

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/21/following-cory-booker-criticisms-a-struggle-to-define-whats-fair-game/

    “If your main argument for how to grow the economy is, ‘I knew how to make a lot of money for investors,’ then you are missing what this job is about,” Mr. Obama said, stressing the words “this job” in his answer.

    “It doesn’t mean you weren’t good at private equity,” Mr. Obama added. “But that’s not what my job is as president. My job is to take into account everybody, not just some.”

    The problem with that is the ads don’t make the point Obama is making when he defends them.

    But he made clear that he views those who work in private equity — and Mr. Romney in particular — as limited by a view of the economy that prioritizes profits above all else. The president said that view was too limited at a time of economic struggles in the country.

    “Their priority is to maximize profits, and that’s not always going to be good for businesses or communities or workers,” he said.

    Referencing the videos his campaign has released in the past two weeks that featured workers laid off by Bain companies, Mr. Obama said: “I’ve got to think about those workers in that video just as much as I’m thinking about folks who have been much more successful.”

    “The reason why this is relevant,” Mr. Obama said, “is Romney’s main calling card for why he should be elected is his business experience.”

    Mr. Obama’s advisers insist that their full-throated assault on Bain Capital, now in its second full week, is intended as a critique of Mr. Romney’s claims to be a jobs creator. But much of the commentary on Mr. Obama’s behalf describes Mr. Romney in highly personal and unflattering ways.

    Not exactly maybe the same point being made when Obama defends the ads.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  265. Could you effing link to someone else’s work’ instead of copypasta?!

    JD (318f81)

  266. The fundamental dishonesty that Romney was not running the company at the time of the closing of the steel mill of course does not stop the most dishonest President in our lifetime from doubling down.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  267. 267. …Mr. Obama’s advisers insist that their full-throated assault on Bain Capital, now in its second full week, is intended as a critique of Mr. Romney’s claims to be a jobs creator. But much of the commentary on Mr. Obama’s behalf describes Mr. Romney in highly personal and unflattering ways.

    Not exactly maybe the same point being made when Obama defends the ads.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman — 5/22/2012 @ 12:57 pm

    Obama has a habit of arguing against figments of his own or of his PR team’s imagination. In preference to dealing with reality, and what people are really saying about it. I suppose when objective reality works so heavily against it, it may be preferable to fabricate an alternative in which to operate.

    I’m just having a hard time believing that can possibly be effective outside of an MSNBC studio or a NYT/WaPo press room.

    Steve (773f84)


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