Hoax Twitter Message and Call Cost Doctor Kruse His Cruise
All it takes to ruin a guy’s vacation is one anonymous moron with a computer and a phone, and a bunch of gullible and overreacting law enforcement agents and cruise personnel:
A Nashville neurosurgeon was pulled off a Carnival cruise suspected of planning to commit a bio-terrorist attack, after a tweet from an impostor account claimed the doctor had a vial of harmful bacteria on board.
Dr. Jack Kruse was on the Carnival Magic cruise ship Sunday about to set off from a Galveston port. He planned to speak to the passengers on the 5th Annual Low-Carb Cruise Monday morning. Passengers never got to hear that lecture, though, because Kruse was escorted off the cruise after a suspicious tweet posted that morning was detected.
A cruise line official confirmed that the FBI, Homeland Security, the Galveston police and the U.S. Coast Guard were alerted about the tweet.
A tweet posted by an account “s***krusesays,” which we’ve edited because of an expletive, said, “security confiscated dynamite. talk won’t be as explosive as one at PaleoFx. still have vial of Legionnaires for epic biohack. #lccruise12.” The fake Twitter account, which parodied the doctor, has been deleted.
The story quotes Kruse as saying they ripped his room apart: “It was like being in a movie, and it was surreal . . . Having the room completely trashed, and I was asked all of these crazy questions. I had no idea what they were talking about.”
I feel you, man.
Even though the doctor was cleared of having sent the message and determined not to be a threat, the captain still didn’t let him on board. “Since the safety and well-being of my guests and crew is my number one priority, every security threat is taken seriously and fully investigated,” the captain wrote. “It is for this reason that I felt it was in the best interest of all my guests to err on the side of caution and not allow him to set sail as planned.”
Sure. Just go ahead and ruin his trip — not to mention affecting the enjoyment of people who had looked forward to hearing his talk — because of some anonymous idiot. It seems that my oft-repeated prescription not to take the word of anonymous a-holes too seriously has, once again, not been heeded.
People just loooove to take unverified crap at face value.
I have to wonder what officials were smoking to take this seriously. First of all, check out the message that caused them to go nuts. The first words were: “security confiscated dynamite.” Except, they didn’t. That could be a tip-off that the Twitter message was a joke.
Second of all: thanks to the magic of Topsy.com, we can still view some of the tweets from the “shitkrusesays” account. (I don’t have to edit profanity. Welcome to the world of grown-ups!) Check out the avatar the account holder was using:
Yes, that is Dr. Nick Riviera, the laughable quack from The Simpsons.
If this guy wanted to scream “satire!” he couldn’t do it any louder than with that avatar.
And check out another tweet about the cruise that the hoaxster sent out about the same time: “cruise ship staff refusing to keep hot tubs at 55 degrees. forcing them to watch tedx talk on my ipad. jaws are dropping. #LCCRUISE12.” I hope they thoroughly investigated that allegation as well!!!!!
I’ll give authorities this: the story reports that, “[i]n addition to the tweet, however, the cruise line received a call from a ‘Lance,’ who claimed the doctor had a plan to perform a viral biohack on the ship.”
OK. Arguably, one could contend that is enough to search his belongings to make sure he was not going to KILL EVERYONE ON BOARD!!!! (I’m not sure I agree, frankly, but I can see people making the argument.) But once everything was searched, and they had a chance to Google “Nick Riviera,” and determine that no dynamite had already been confiscated, they should have known better.
I hope that law enforcement catches “Lance” and throws his ass in jail. Based on personal experience, however, I advise Kruse not to hold his breath. I speak from personal experience when I say that law enforcement can be stunningly, spectacularly incompetent on issues like this, depending on who you get. It’s the luck of the draw, and if your detective or FBI agent is the lazy one, or the dishonest one, or the stupid one — or, God help you, all three (it happens, believe me) — you are up the creek, pal.
Best wishes to Dr. Kruse on finding the bad guys.
If he figures out who they are, but law enforcement won’t do anything, he has another option:
Shame them publicly. So that no rational person will ever have anything to do with them ever again.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/9/2012 @ 10:37 pmHmmmm…
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/9/2012 @ 10:37 pmDoes his civil suit against the cruise line and whoever else get thrown out because it’s a “security issue?”
MikeHu (d45259) — 5/9/2012 @ 10:44 pmThis sort of stuff really is super, ultra, hyper-annoying. We have just gone crazy as a nation. This is of a piece with the TSA gropings and irradiatings and all the other ridiculous, security theater overreactions to what is a real but manageable threat of terrorism.
So all it takes is some obviously ludicrous threat from some anonymous jerk on the internet and we have to totally toss some guy’s life upside down? And we’re not allowed to exercise any form of judgement, discretion, or common sense?
The really annoying thing is, since the War on Terror began, we have kicked the terrorists’ asses. We crushed Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, we crushed them in Iraq, we killed Bin Laden and have killed or captured the vast majority of key AQ personnel since 9/11. The surviving remnants of AQ are hiding like scared rats, never knowing if today’s the day that the Hellfire missile drops out of the sky or the Special Forces team kicks in the door, and they haven’t managed to pull off a major attack in the U.S. in over a decade. Yet, we as a country don’t act like bold, confident winners; we act like frightened, pathetic losers, hiding behind mommy’s skirts from the big bad boogeyman.
Okay, rant off. Gotta go take my blood pressure meds now.
Major Kong (f4574f) — 5/9/2012 @ 11:04 pmSounds like something a member of PCRM would do. Vegans hate the low carb and paleo community.
Dale (76e904) — 5/9/2012 @ 11:40 pmif your detective or FBI agent is the lazy one, or the dishonest one, or the stupid one — or, God help you, all three —
— imdw is an FBI agent? OMG!
Icy (620917) — 5/10/2012 @ 1:42 amDid one of the tweets read: “Die, everybody”?
Icy (620917) — 5/10/2012 @ 1:48 amIf I were a passenger who was on the cruise to hear this doctor, I’d be filing a suit against the cruise line as well.
Rhymes With Right (c6e21c) — 5/10/2012 @ 2:28 amA little background on this: Dr Kruze is part of the Paleo diet movement (see marksdailyapple.com) however he doesn’t adhere to the Paleo philosophy as some would like. As a result, some think he is a heretic and they harass him and his theories. For example, his theories about using cold to lose weight and improve health. They think he’s crazy – hence the fake tweats about the hot tub at 55. It’s not unlike the climate change crowd attacking gw deniers…
I pay attention to him. I’m not sure if I buy all of his theories, but I did follow his Leptin Reset plan and lost weight (from 211 down to 180).
DaSpider (028bef) — 5/10/2012 @ 4:13 amwhat’s really scary is someone that stupid is actually in charge of a ship that big with that many people on it at one time…
you’d think there would be some sort of intelligence test to ensure mouth breathers weren’t driving those things, but then again, we have the on the rocks cruise a few months back to tell us otherwise.
idiots all…. and yet they tell us we are in the best of hands.
redc1c4 (403dff) — 5/10/2012 @ 4:33 amPublic shaming only works if they are capable of shame.
JD (d4dd44) — 5/10/2012 @ 5:34 amAnd vegans are generally insane zealots.
JD, most certainly that person is not very capable of seeing his save the world from paleoquacks act as wrong.
However, other people are capable of seeing that “Lance” is wrong, and wrong in the head, and not fit for much but laughing at, reviling, suing, or even a second-look at prosecution.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 5:45 amThe twitter account there should be little issue with – its a stupid joke account, and plainly a joke account, whatever hostility underlies the obvious jokes.
The phone call needs arresting. Its the same as a bomb threat.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 5:47 amOh, Major Kong. I didn’t know there were schisms in the paleo-diet movement.
What is it about diet plans – in particular those that attract a male following, as opposed to women (who are accustomed to seeing new ideas adopted and discarded in heavier rotation than parachute pants and shoulder-pads?) It’s as if the earth and mankind hang in the balance.
The orthodoxy, the zeal, the nutty-nut adherents?
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 6:01 amThink Hitler and his plan for imposition of world-wide vegetarianism… Although lance is surely a diet speaker in competition for sweet cruise-ship speaking gigs, if you ask me…
Since I am shotgun posting already..
The Captain , I give a little slack. I don’t believe he though the speaker (Dr Kruse) was the least threat. What he knew was that Kruse had an enemy that was willing to call in to report a bio-attack threat and attribute it to Kruse.
Nuts are nutty, and they are capable of terrible things. That enemy might be perfectly willing to
to take items contaminated with ecoli or norwalk virus if Kruse remained aboard and believe that Kruse would be blamed.
That “warning” then makes the cruise ship somewhat on the hook for ignoring the warning if viral or bacterial illness should break out amongst the passengers. (Something that happens with frequency anyway, and which could end up being expensive to the cruise line).
That caller needs catching and arresting, not the least because who knows what THAT person is capable of doing to frame cruise.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 6:14 amI accidentally a sentence. Oh well.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 6:15 amcarnival magic sounds like a my little pony episode
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 5/10/2012 @ 6:17 amI’ve never seen one of those, Happyfeet. I take it there are rivalries.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 6:27 amThe further away we get from 1984, the closer we get.
dfbaskwill (ca54bb) — 5/10/2012 @ 6:34 amIf his name had been Dr. Hassan, I bet they wouldn’t have torn up his room like that.
Rather, they would have “avoided a rush to judgment.”
By the way, is Vegas taking odds on whether or not President Weirdo is going to step up to the podium and accuse law enforcement of “acting stupidly” ?
Elephant Stone (0ae97d) — 5/10/2012 @ 6:38 amin the end there can be only one
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 5/10/2012 @ 6:51 am“It seems that my oft-repeated prescription not to take the word of anonymous a-holes too seriously has, once again, not been heeded.”
– Patterico
If only the ship’s captain and everyone else involved had read Patterico’s blog… so much pain and suffering… all for nothing…
Leviticus (870be5) — 5/10/2012 @ 6:54 amhttp://jackkruse.com/cold-thermogenesis-10-is-good-the-enemy-of-great/
See what I mean about how nuts this stuff is – that dieting is SERIOUS BUSINESS; all about destiny and leadership and quotations from the great philosophers and saber-tooth cat fails.
The comments are as painful to read as the sermon.
He has a stalker/enemy I’m sure there will be one or two suspects obvious on the interwebs if anyone troubled to look.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 6:57 amhttp://www.bulletproofexec.com/cold-thermogenesis-in-tibet-and-the-dangers-of-biohacking-made-real/
Oh good grief. It seems bio-hacking is a Kruse “thing” and perhaps more broadly a “Paleo community” thing. They have panels. And symposiums.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 7:05 amSingularity University. Really.
The guy who wrote that last link wrote himself a blurb:
Silicon Valley investor, computer security expert, and entrepreneur who spent 15 years and $250,000 to hack his own biology. He upgraded his brain by >20 IQ points, lowered his biological age, and lost 100 lbs without using calories or exercise. The Financial Times calls him a “bio-hacker who takes self-quantification to the extreme of self-experimentation.” His writing has been published by the New York Times and Fortune, and he’s presented at Wharton, Kellogg, the University of California, and Singularity University.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 7:10 amSarahW’s point at #15 is pretty interesting and thoughtful, although if people feel the twitter posting is pretty obviously just a bad joke then it’s much less likely there is a person seriously out to undermine him.
I may have to look into it a little bit, though. I would like to have my leptin reset…
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/10/2012 @ 7:16 amOooh. Squabbles with Peat-a-tarians! Happyfeet, it is like a cartoon world.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 7:19 amI forget where I heard it, but someone was commenting how some people think plants have enough thinking/feeling that they will only eat things from plants that do not harm the plant, no carrots, lettuce, broccoli…
Playing music and talking to your plants makes them grow better, don’t you know…
maybe there are Ents and walking trees after all
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/10/2012 @ 7:23 amsome people make life a lot harder than it really needs to be
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 5/10/2012 @ 7:25 amDo they think that every nut, bean, berry, and pea that they eat is like an abortion?
kaf (c41574) — 5/10/2012 @ 7:29 amA raid based on an obvious joke twitter account would be pathetic and idiotic.
This guy does have rivals and there is a lot investment by very silly people into diet “movements” (as they refer to themselves). After reading what I’ve read I have little doubt that it was better to err on the side of thinking his enemies capable of not only attempting to annoy him, but ruin him and use other people to do it.
The call, however – is there more info on that I’d like to hear it. Was Lance just reporting that he saw a tweet he thought was worrisome? In that case law enforcement et al were a few googles away from enlightenment and realizing there was nothing at all to it.
BUT – was “Lance” a bomb-threat sort who called in and said “Dr Kruse is planning to infect the hip”? Was he anonymous? A truly concerned person, stupid though he may be to be alarmed by a tweet, would not be reluctant to give his name.
If it was the latter, an anonymous bombthreat style call, that enemy and what he might do to “get” Kruse has to be taken more seriously.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 7:30 amLeviticus,
Hey, way to show your empathetic side for what the doctor endured.
Elephant Stone (0ae97d) — 5/10/2012 @ 7:41 amAnd here I thought you college liberals were always so absolute in your opposition to searches and seizures, requests for photo ID, accusations by unconfirmed anonymous sources, et al.
I wonder if Twitter will be reduced to forcing people to label parody/satire accounts as such.
It would ruin half the fun of joke accounts but I confess I have seen the sad confusion that results: persons quite convinced that “blank someone says” accounts are really relaying what that someone says, or who miss inverted letters in a name and think they are tweeting/observing tweets of the real deal.
Even that might not work though. I know people who still think Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from her house, based on an SNL skit.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 7:50 amOk, I see understand better now that he was asked to disembark while the investigation took place, and subsequently not allowed to re-board. I had mistakenly imagined him escorted off even though the investigation was complete.
And Kruse relates here that the cruise line received an email, not a call.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:02 amIn the same article linked above, They still didn’t know what was really going on yet, AND it was time for the ship to leave port:
“Since the investigation was ongoing at the point the ship needed to depart[emphasis added], it was in the best interest of all guests and crew to err on the side of caution and not allow him to sail.”
If you were the Captain, what would you do? Delaying the cruise for him seemed to be the real sticking point.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:06 amDad used to say “Three generations off the farm or out of the factory, people lose all their common sense”. The older I get the smarter Dad was.
glenn (877ee1) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:25 am==some people make life a lot harder than it really needs to be==
Oh happyfeet, that is such an awesome and on-point sentiment. It would be lovely decorated onto a cake or crafted on a needlepoint pillow, I think.
elissa (d9a1fd) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:34 am“And vegans are generally insane zealots.”
SarahW – And they fart a lot.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:39 amThe Peat “movement” seems to be favored by ladies, as you get to be warm.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:40 ambetter go with the pillow
cakes are laden with carbs, which are controversial and divisive
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:45 amNo more of these mediocre pillows that lead to extinction!
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:50 amI can think of a lot of things happyfeet says that should be embroidered on cushions. They would probably sell, too.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:52 am“The Peat “movement” seems to be favored by ladies, as you get to be warm.”
SarahW – Did you note that woman who died recently in Switzerland from the “Sunlight Diet?” No food, just nourishing rays of sunlight. Lost a lot of weight and croaked, but won the best tanned corpse award.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:58 amTans to die for!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/10/2012 @ 9:00 amOnce again, the FBI demonstrates just what level of IQ is has. And it ain’t high.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/10/2012 @ 9:02 amI’ll admit it, I’m confused!
AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92) — 5/10/2012 @ 9:08 amWhy would you keep a “hot tub” at 55?
Or, is that a slip on the part of the prankster, revealing his foreign location, since 55C = 131F?
Which is way too hot.
It was the cruise line that brought authorities in – It isn’t clear the email was reporting a general evil plan, or just reporting the tweet, though the cruise line “became aware” of the tweet before calling in the cops.
I’m wondering if there was some sort of language barrier that prevented them grasping quickly that the tweet was a joke-tweet, if they had much notion about tweets at all.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 9:08 amThis was no doubt a terrible and embarrassing experience for Dr. Kruse, but your article neglected to mention several important parts of the story. As a follower of the “paleosphere”, I’ve become somewhat familiar with Dr. Kruse’s antics over the last several months and fear that this latest stunt is just another publicity grab. The “Tweet” in question came from a parody account that had been in operation for at least several weeks and that Dr. Kruse was aware of (as several of the followers of the account had “retweeted” its messages to him). The account had quite a few fans in the nutrition community, including Jimmy Moore, the head of the low-carb cruise on which Dr. Kruse was scheduled to speak. The majority of the Tweets were direct quotes from Dr. Kruse’s writings, which often contain bizarre generalizations and misinterpretations of scientific literature. These direct quotes were indicated by quotation marks. Several other Tweets, not surrounded by quotation marks, were written in Kruse’s “voice.” I don’t have the exact text of the offending Tweet in front of me, but it was very clearly not a threat of bioterrorism. In fact, it referred to the fact that Dr. Kruse used a stick of dynamite as a prop at a recent conference talk (at Paleofx in Austin, TX) and claimed in a recent Tedx talk, available on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qNEeqCACwo), that he cultured MRSA, a highly dangerous and contagious bacteria, slathered it on his torso, injected himself with it, and then underwent elective surgery (without informing his family, his doctor, or the staff of his own medical practice of his actions until much later). The term “bio hack”, used in the Tweet, is one that Dr. Kruse uses frequently to refer to his brand of self-experimentation. It does not refer to acts of terrorism. It is also worth nothing that this “cruise debacle” occurred just on the heels of the news that Dr. Kruse had been suspended last fall by the American Association for Neurological Surgeons (AANS) for lying under oath during a deposition (http://www.aansneurosurgeon.org/210112/8/1210).
Since he was removed from the cruise, Dr. Kruse had publicly identified people he considers his enemies, insinuated that they are under investigation by the FBI, and that they will do hard prison time. His claims have been directly contradicted by FBI Agent Baker, who informed several members of the paleo community that while authorities are interested in finding the person who called (or emailed, depending on the news story you read) a threat into the ship, they recognize the Twitter account for what it was–a parody. Nevertheless, Kruse seems determined to bring not just the Twitter account owner, but anyone who contributed to it, to justice (apparently overlooking the fact that 90% of the posts were direct quotes from him). Just yesterday, Kruse posted this barely sensical diatribe on the website http://www.freetheanimal.com, which is run by one of his allies in the paleo community:
“Jack Kruse // May 9, 2012 at 17:42
I have a conundrum here. What was done to me will be found in justice. What kind of
justice, I am unsure as yet. But I have a consciousness about the movement that this
“twatter” undermined by the actions said. They people who are complicit in this are
crafting a message that my response has damaged the movement. Quite the
contrary……the “twat” opened that can of worms. I have to protect that emotion in
spite of my anger, because the movement and helping others is part of my mission.
The ‘respected leaders’ have to back “paleo the movement”, but neurosurgery pays
my bills, so I must protect my house first and foremost. I have hired peopel to do just
that on Sunday night as I was driven back to Houston after being removed from the
boat. The first person I called was Robb Wolf because I knew what he was crafting
was just hit with a torpedo from the “in paleo crowd”. The respected leaders forget to
easily, because Paleo pays their bills. But I promise you the “twat” who opened that
account will be found and prosecuted in the court of law and in the court of public
opinion. To those who fed that ‘twatter’ account……..hire someone now, because
the law says if you fed it……..you own it because of what happened. See
consequences do matter when the federal government resources are wasted. And if
they choose not do deal with it I have plenty of time and money to follow up to see to
it that the rest of this community knows precisely who put our message at risk. When
you came after me you opened the door, my response is called defense.”
I share this information with you so that you know the story of Dr. Kruse’s expulsion from the cruise is likely more complicated than he indicated. Although he has portrayed himself as an innocent victim, he has a long history of bullying people who whom he disagrees, making threats to other doctors in the paleo community, and presenting false medical information to the followers of his forum. Several people have brought him to the attention to the state medical board, though I do not know if he is, in fact, under investigation. Unfortunately, this incident on the cruise has fueled his publicity machine and will likely bring more followers to his website. I would hope that rather than taking his words at face value, they do their due diligence and do a little background research on the man. Although the question of who made the call (or sent the email) to Carnival is an interesting one, I think the bigger question is how a man who is so clearly unhinged maintains his license to practice medicine.
Lea (fafd54) — 5/10/2012 @ 9:09 amAD-RtR/OS! — 5/10/2012 @ 9:08 am
Kruse is all about hot tubs that are cold.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 9:10 amAlso, the mindset demonstrated by authorities in this matter, is mimicked over at Classical Values by the DEA over a water-purification business (and other links)- H/T- Instapundit.
When will we return to a system of governance, and stop with the rulers?
End Sovereign Immunity, and all other perks of nobility enjoyed by the unelected thugocracy.
AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92) — 5/10/2012 @ 9:12 amPaleosphere guy – We get it about the joke account, and that there was no threat of bioterrorism. We also get that he’s nuts, a quack,attracts nuts; (though what you tell us about the MRSA is interesting as that raises the nut level for me a bit.)
But it’s your contention that he “reported” himself?
That seems unlikely. Someone who dislikes him, such as yourself, but has either no sense or no sense of decency, sent the cruise the tweet to get him in trouble.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 9:17 amLea – Does the paleo community use service horses?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/10/2012 @ 10:03 amLea,
Even if Kruse were a quack or a fraud, does that excuse what happened here? It sounds like you think it might.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/10/2012 @ 10:52 am“[claimed] that he cultured MRSA, a highly dangerous and contagious bacteria, slathered it on his torso, injected himself with it, and then underwent elective surgery (without informing his family, his doctor, or the staff of his own medical practice of his actions until much later).”
Reason enough for me to boot him off the planet and back to whichever one he escaped from.
My weight loss program involves running a trail and then doing 100 burpee to pullups. Then I eat what I want while having a beer or three.
I think I heard Adam Carrolla call people without TV electronic vegans this twitter nutcase should be sentenced to a place where he can achieve electronic purity with no internet access for 5 years
SteveG (e27d71) — 5/10/2012 @ 11:54 amSteveG – I think the MRSA thing was probably a fairy story. A very nutty thing to claim, for sure.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 12:08 pmNot being a sensible person and planning to give a very silly talk is not cause for being kicked off a boat. Isn’t it incumbent upon his audience to notice he’s full of crap?
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 12:10 pmIt’s not my contention that he reported himself. I’m just saying that there are a lot of questions about what happened, and a lot of BS being thrown around by Dr. Kruse. I don’t have a clue who was behind the Twitter account or who Lance is. Do I think Kruse should have been unceremoniously dumped off the cruise ship? No. But his behavior since then has caused any sympathy I had for him to vanish. And his well-documented history of lying makes me doubt a lot of what comes out of his mouth.
Lea (fafd54) — 5/10/2012 @ 12:47 pmThe cruise did leave without him but didn’t actually boot him from the cruise altogether – and tried to mitigate having to leave without him while the situation was being sorted:
“Apparently, the next day they offered to fly him [1st class -sw] back to join the cruise at the next port, but Dr. Kruse declined.”
http://paleohacks.com/questions/118128/meta-whats-the-deal-with-paleohacks-dr-kruse-and-the-fbi#ixzz1uUvUFozd
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 12:48 pmThis diet stuff is so circle-jerk and culty.
It would be highly amusing if there weren’t fruitcakey vipers phoning/mailing false threats into packed cruise liners ready to depart.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 12:52 pmLea,
I read of rumors there’s some female vegantype-enemy-of-Low-carbers suspected of running the twiter account; you seem to think it group effort of people irritated with Kruse because he’s silly, possibly rivals or critics in the “Paleosphere.”
The twitter account doesn’t really seem to be at issue, though – not with the law, anyway, and never really was. The call/email seems to be the big deal.
What have you heard about that? Threads discussing chats with the fbi have been deleted at the paleohacks place.
Who would do THAT? Are there rumors on that front?
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 1:07 pmAlso Lea, when you say ” there are a lot of questions about what happened,” what exactly do you mean?
He was escorted off the boat. What is it you doubt? Do you doubt his items/room were looked through?
Who can blame him for wanting to sue the Twitter account runner(s) – he thinks they are to blame. It doesn’t mean they are, but it doesn’t make him a liar to say he believes they are.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 1:16 pmI heard that the Paleohacks moderators deleted threads about Dr. Kruse that people started in the wake of Cruise-gate because they didn’t want to moderate them. But I haven’t heard anything about them deleting threads that contained info about the FBI. I’m not a Paleohacks insider, though, so I’m the wrong person to ask. I’ve heard that people are getting suspicious of Kruse because his story keeps changing (e.g., did Lance call or email Carnival?) and some of the stuff he said (e.g., about the FBI tracing IP addresses to NY, Boston, and Chicago) has turned out to be outright lies. I know some people have developed conspiracy theories that Kruse himself arranged the call/email to Carnival to garner himself sympathy and publicity and to shut down the Twitter feed. I would find this all really implausible if the guy hadn’t already displayed bizarre behavior on multiple occasions.
Lea (fafd54) — 5/10/2012 @ 1:36 pmPaging MKDP and David Petranos Esq ….
JD (66b3fb) — 5/10/2012 @ 1:40 pmLea, if Kruse was relaying what he’d been told, it isn’t surprising that there are contradictions.
Your view of this looks pretty kooky to me.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/10/2012 @ 1:45 pm“And here I thought you college liberals were always so absolute in your opposition to searches and seizures, requests for photo ID, accusations by unconfirmed anonymous sources, et al.”
– Elephant Stone
Here you thought that. Silly thing to think, not that it has anything to do with what I said.
Leviticus (870be5) — 5/10/2012 @ 1:54 pmI wouldn’t put too much stock in the call vs. email business. Reporters often get minor details wrong through no fault of the person they interview. Reports also have more sources than Kruse – and thats a detail that could easily be mixed up.
Why do you say the IP address traces are falsely reported by Kruse? I don’t know what is true, but I do know IP addresses through proxies or through phones will go through many or unexpected places.
for instance, when I use the 4g or 3g on my ipads I bounce places and might appear to be in Chicago, though I am in Virginia.
Which brings up another source of confusion for call vs email – it might me a mail that came through a phone.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 1:59 pmI would find this all really implausible if the guy hadn’t already displayed bizarre behavior on multiple occasions.
Comment by Lea — 5/10/2012 @ 1:36 pm
I see your point, but the thing is, there is so much crazee to go around – or at least many true believers and rivals who seem perfectly ready to make him miserable.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 2:05 pmLeviticus,
That’s kind of a weak straw man response, particularly considering that I very explicitly inferred it was a generalization about college age liberals, such as yourself, rather than an actual assertion that you had literally written those things in your post.
Reading comprehension is key !
Nonetheless, the generalization remains.
College age liberals are often adamant in their opposition to searches and seizures, requirements of photo ID, and accusations by unconfirmed sources. I guess those concerns don’t apply to doctors on cruise ships.
I imagine if his name had been “Dr. Hassan,” it’d be a different story, though.
Elephant Stone (0ae97d) — 5/10/2012 @ 2:09 pmHmmm. Carnival’s explanation to passengers on the ship (link is to letter given to passengers) is very lame.
They were notified of the existence of the “threatening” tweet, “under the handle of Dr. Kruse”
As the the tweet was neither threatening, nor under the handle of Dr Kruse, if there is nothing more to the warning from “Lance” that was not a reasonable basis to bother him or interupt his trip.
Unless it was phrased as “there’s a guy on your boat and he plans to unleash a deadly virus” they did wrong.
Stuffthisguysaid is so far from “Dr Kruse – your diet director” as to be very OBVIOUS it’s not him tweeting.
Even if it were him tweeting it’s also a joke on its face, and VERY VERY very obviously satire when viewed in context, and that context was public.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 2:34 pmAlso you won’t catch me sailing on any cruise with an Italian captain and crew. #costa concordia
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 2:38 pmImportant point about security people when evaluating threats to travelers:
Nobody is supposed to downgrade threats as a result of thinking. In fact nobody is supposed to think, period.
Saying that some possible threat amounts to nothing would amount to thinking.
Only at airports, trains and cruise ships, and when contemplating issuing visas though.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/10/2012 @ 2:44 pmAll jokes are taken 100% seriously.
When a name is on a watch list, never pay attention to the fact a terrorist on a watch list has, say, a distinctly different date of birth than the traveler.
The suspected terrorist can get off the watch list by changing his name, though.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/10/2012 @ 2:46 pm“That’s kind of a weak straw man response, particularly considering that I very explicitly inferred it was a generalization about college age liberals, such as yourself, rather than an actual assertion that you had literally written those things in your post.”
– Elephant Stone
I didn’t accuse you of accusing me of anything. I said that your point had nothing to do with my point. My point was that Patterico’s not the lone source of prudence when it comes to distrusting anonymous sources. Your point was that a college-age liberal who had made a habit of complaining against unreasonable searches and seizures should be bothered by this unreasonable search and seizure. Those two points have nothing to do with one another. Which is what I said.
Leviticus (870be5) — 5/10/2012 @ 2:46 pmReading comprehension is key.
Leviticus (870be5) — 5/10/2012 @ 2:47 pmRe; frameups:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/nyregion/a-revenge-plot-so-intricate-the-prosecutors-were-pawns.html?_r=1&sq=A%20Revenge%20Plot%20So%20Intricate,%20The%20Prosecutors%20Were%20Pawns%20&st=cse&scp=1&pagewanted=all
Mr. Ramrattan framed Ms. Sumasar because she would not drop the rape charge, prosecutors said.
And so even as Mr. Ramrattan remained free on bail in the rape case, Ms. Sumasar, who had no prior criminal record, was facing up to 25 years in prison.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/24/nyregion/jerry-ramrattan-found-guilty-of-raping-and-framing-ex-girlfriend.html?_r=1
Prosecutors told the jury that Mr. Ramrattan hatched the scheme after Ms. Sumasar, a former restaurant owner and analyst with Morgan Stanley, refused to drop rape charges against him. They said he intimidated and cajoled false witnesses into telling the authorities that she had dressed as a police officer and robbed them at gunpoint.
…..
Denise Li, an alternate jury member from Flushing, said the defense’s claim that Ms. Sumasar was set up by underworld characters to whom she owed money seemed like a conspiracy theory conjured by Mr. Ramrattan. She said she had been put off by Mr. Ramrattan’s demeanor in court.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/04/man-is-sentenced-for-raping-ex-girlfriend-and-then-framing-her/
At his trial in State Supreme Court in Queens, prosecutors produced evidence that Mr. Ramrattan cajoled and extorted witnesses to falsely testify that she had robbed them. He even staged fake crime scenes, prosecutors said, in which he planted evidence, handcuffing one of Ms. Sumasar’s supposed victims to a pole and planting several bullets at the scene of one of the imaginary crimes.
….
During her seven months in jail, awaiting a robbery trial, Ms. Sumasar, a former Morgan Stanley analyst, was separated from her young daughter. She lost her business, and her house went into foreclosure. Her bail was set at $1 million, which she could not afford. Mr. Ramrattan, meanwhile, was free until an informant came forward in late 2010 and exposed his plot.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/10/2012 @ 2:57 pmAlso:
Justice Buchter railed against the Nassau County police, who had wrongly imprisoned Ms. Sumasar, saying that it did not take “a Sherlock Holmes” to deduce that a 5-foot-2 former Wall Street analyst with no criminal record would not have held people up at gunpoint.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/10/2012 @ 2:58 pmLeviticus,
I must have missed the memo instructing us all to refrain from making inconvenient points that other people find to be tangential.
It’s just kind of funny that for a person who often makes complaints about law enforcement encroaching into the lives/property of suspects (i.e., your crack about the LAPD the other nite), in this instance, you seem more interested in making a snarky remark toward Patterico than you are in making snarky remarks about the overly aggressive approach taken against this doctor on the cruise ship.
But now that you made your crack about Patterico, feel free to criticize law enforcement’s treatment of Dr. Kruse.
…be adventurous…do both !
Elephant Stone (0ae97d) — 5/10/2012 @ 3:20 pm“This diet stuff is so circle-jerk and culty.”
SarahW – Say it ain’t so!
I find it absolutely faaah-scinating.
Speedo season is nigh and we lads need to look our best.
My 12-pack abs are itching to be exposed, literally.
I think it was that last camp out.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/10/2012 @ 3:20 pmI bought some chinese broccoli in oakland chinatown yesterday and juiced some of it for breakfast with a few carrots it was very tasty none of my usual markets I go to carry it
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/10/2012 @ 3:32 pmThe parallel story to this is way more interesting.
JD (d4dd44) — 5/10/2012 @ 3:32 pmBroccoli juice? That makes me skeptical like Christopher HItchens.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 4:34 pmMaybe the carrots balance it out.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 4:34 pmyes the carrots are key – or you can do apple and beet with it – something like that
broccoli by itself just tastes green if you can do wheat grass it’s pretty much same same
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/10/2012 @ 4:36 pmDaleyrocks – you have an acute eye for paleo subtext
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 4:43 pmLea sounds quite a lot like “CarbSane” (google Kruse cruise carbsane and get all you wanna hear of her tin foil hat Kruse-set-this-up theories; she comments copiously on the freetheanimal site linked here, too), the only person I hear out there really pushing the conspiratorial view of this.
FWIW, no one in the “paleosphere” thinks a vegan did this; all are quite certain it’s a paleo Kruse opponent.
BTW, for those wondering why someone might think about diet & take cold baths, some of us spent decades exercising, “eating sensibly” according to conventional modes of thought, and having treats as desired, and falling down the long decline into chronic disease, fatigue, obesity, eating disorders, and sometimes worse.
A simple change to a diet of only traditional foods and a lifestyle of traditional exercise (all a la marksdailyapple.com) (no more chronic cardio) has removed 90% of the maladies, minor and major, from which I suffered, which no conventional doc had ever been able to do anything about. Adding Kruse’s Leptin Reset has eliminated another major longstanding disorder that no doctor had previously been able to affect, and adding CT has kicked the fat-burning & thyroid into high gear.
Yeah, it’s worth it for me. Now I can stop thinking about how miserable I feel (felt) and start living life again.
Leigh (f140de) — 5/10/2012 @ 4:45 pmI’m not carbsane, Leigh. You sound as paranoid as Kruse. And carbsane is definitely not the only person who wonders if Kruse is behind this. We’re just apparently reading different sources.
Lea (146d25) — 5/10/2012 @ 5:31 pmNo, I didn’t say you were. Just that you’re saying exactly what she is, in much the way she does, so any who want to fill up on that POV can know where to get plenty.
Leigh (f140de) — 5/10/2012 @ 5:33 pmLeigh, I’m glad you found something that works so well for you.
I’m not exactly much of a dieter, but I’ve found that controlling carbs is the most effective diet for weight loss, for myself and most folks I discuss such things with.
I’ve had all the a-hole psycho sadistic spinners of innuendo internet drama I can take, so I’ll not wade into this one, but the idea the victim set himself up is the kind of accusation that either comes with strong evidence… or comes from an unreasonable and/or dishonest person.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/10/2012 @ 5:49 pmMy, an attempt to make fun of a story turns into a movie mystery with competing theories. P, you’ll just have to fact check better…
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/10/2012 @ 5:57 pmLea,
I consider you to be an anonymous person with zero track record here, and thus your characterizations of Kruse are useful only to the extent that you provide documentation to back up your claims. I note that you have provided reams of accusations and characterization and very little in the way of hard evidence. Your claims not backed up by hard links are 100% worthless to me. 100%. For all I know, you’re the culprit and you’re trying to smear him after he was victimized.
More links, fewer (try NO) attacks without substance. I have no opinion on this guy, but I know enough to see he’s a victim here, and I won’t tolerate attacks that aren’t backed up with hard evidence.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/10/2012 @ 6:31 pm“It’s just kind of funny that for a person who often makes complaints about law enforcement encroaching into the lives/property of suspects (i.e., your crack about the LAPD the other nite), in this instance, you seem more interested in making a snarky remark toward Patterico than you are in making snarky remarks about the overly aggressive approach taken against this doctor on the cruise ship.”
– Elephant Stone
“Often.” Look who suddenly knows something about someone. That comment had nothing to do with unreasonable search and seizure, and (either way) a brick is not a wall.
And, for the record, I was totally more interested in making a (harmless) snarky remark towards Patterico than I was in commenting on the cops in any way, shape, or form. So what?
Why are we even talking?
Leviticus (870be5) — 5/10/2012 @ 7:34 pmPatrick, I linked some of kruse’s stuff…which you can review yourself….saber cat extinctions and all. He’s nutty, is my own verdict, and quacky and culty.
That said,
The carnival letter leads tends to support that the tweet itself was the supposed threat prompting investigation, and that someone who doesn’t care for him was the troublemaker, though. That person would have either no sense, or no sense of decency, to represent that tweet as the writing of Kruse.
T
Sarahw (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 7:37 pmOne of the links I put up was A paleo hacks discussion of the incident.
Kruse’s dynamite (rhetorical) reference and his mrsa claims are mentioned in relation to specific events. I found notes from the TEDx talk; Kruse does describe rubbing MRSA all over his torso before surgery, an doingso secretly.
I don’t think that happened at all, i think he was dissembling, but if it did he would be risking th lives of other patients though cross-ontamination and infection of the surgeon and his assistants through cuts or needle sticks.
Either way the story he told is outrageous, and unethical and/ or crazy.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 5/10/2012 @ 7:56 pmAfter reading all this I think Dr. Atkins had more the right idea.
elissa (ab1fdc) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:08 pmyeah culty was a very good word
you know who also smeared MRSA all over himself was Jim Jones
for reals you can google it
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:09 pmWell,
SteveG (e27d71) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:19 pmI got MRSA after a large 2nd degree burn.
Big freaking painful (!) boils that won’t go away… nothing to joke about.
Leviticus,
You’ve got a thin skin, son.
You made my point…you’re animated about law enforcement acting over the top—but only in “certain” situations.
Just not in this one !
Elephant Stone (0ae97d) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:30 pmAgain…that is my point.
Steve G- if the problem continues to recur/persist, there is a combo of meds along with ointment in your nose and washing in iodine or chlorhexidene and washing your clothes and disinfecting your living space that will work.
Not medical advice, but had a patient once that would have new boils within days of last dose of antibiotics for previous boils. It was gratifying to resolve the problem.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:31 pmYeah. You caught me. I’m a big fat hypocrite. Ask Simon Jester about it.
Enjoy your categorical attention span.
Leviticus (870be5) — 5/10/2012 @ 8:51 pmMD
I understand that was not medical advice.
I will have them check my nose and all the rest before they give the “all clear” signal.
No one who has had MRSA would ever act the fool like the Dr Kruse seems to have
Thank you
SteveG (e27d71) — 5/10/2012 @ 9:00 pmLeviticus,
I’m sure you’re a nice fellow.
You like to dish out the snark, but you have difficulty handling return fire.
Look, a lot of med school students convince themselves they have this disease or that disease, based on their case studies.
And a lot of law school students convince themselves they’re the second coming of Atticus Finch or John Marshall or Clarence Darrow.
In pretty much every grad school discipline, the professors tell the students that they’re gifted, the chosen few, the future of professional America, and all that jazz.
It’s similar with drama students who come to Hollywood believing they’re the second coming of Laurence Olivier or Bette Davis.
Eventually they set foot in the real world.
Elephant Stone (0ae97d) — 5/10/2012 @ 9:33 pmI went into the university health services as a second year med student with a funny rash on my hands. At that point, the only thing I knew that started with a rash on the hands (and feet) was Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. I didn’t think I had it as I wasn’t “sick enough”, but I mentioned it to the doctor who said, “That’s an interesting differential diagnosis”.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/10/2012 @ 9:54 pmIt was a coxsackie virus infection, also called “hand, foot, and mouth disease” for where the characteristic skin lesions are seen.
Patterico, just let me know what you’d like me to back up and i’ll be happy to provide hard evidence in the form of links. Given how frequently kruse posts on the internet, it’s not hard to find.
Lea (146d25) — 5/10/2012 @ 9:57 pmPretty much everything you said.
Patterico (6871f4) — 5/10/2012 @ 11:09 pmEverybody in the world should have a security clearance and have to carry it wherever they go.
Of course I’m joking, but you can bet the UN has thought about it.
Bevan
Bevan (6687f4) — 5/11/2012 @ 2:31 amPlease be more specific, Patterico. The paleohacks link someone provided above contains several statement of people who spoke to Agent Baker, who said that no IP addresses had been identified, much less shared with Dr. Kruse. You want proof that he has bullied/threatened people online? I’m genuinely confused about what you’re looking for because I don’t see any of my statements as that controversial.
Lea (146d25) — 5/11/2012 @ 4:19 amBecause you are crazy
JD (66b3fb) — 5/11/2012 @ 4:55 amYeah, like the over 100 bomb threats this year at the university of Pittsburgh. Students evacuated from dorms in the middle of the night dozens of times, due to threats that were obviously bogus.
We are so pathetic and easy to control. All it takes is a miniscule risk plus spineless leaders, with the real fear being the threat of liability.
Amphipolis (d3e04f) — 5/11/2012 @ 6:04 amI can’t vouch for someone I don’t know, Patrick, but Kruse’s own writings should be enough to generally support Lea’s misgivings about him.
As for exaggeration and truth-telling – well, he’s a “stretcher” on a good day.
But he has plenty of devoted enemies who think him a danger to the “paleosphere” and the paleo movement whatever that is, if not people in general. There are plenty of rivals and followers of rivals who would be glad to embarrass him or complain about his inclusion on a cruise or lecture tour.
The cruise seems to, by their own words, to have acted on the basis of the tweet and their belief it was “under his handle”. They could only get such an impression through something lost in translation due to language barrier, or someone very sincerely stupid who thought those were the words of Kruse or someone actively misrepresenting those as the words of Kruse. Carnival called in LE, not Kruse.
The chances of this search and boot being a stunt pulled by Kruse is low.
Note that the cruise line did offer to put him back on the boat at their own expense and inconvenience, once the matter was sorted out. This suggests they were aware of their overreaction.
The captain seems to be not so recalcitrant and stupid as he did on first impression: he wanted to sail, there were 300 people besides him on the boat ready to get underway and the investigation wasn’t complete. His options were to hold the boat, or get going without Kruse.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 6:21 ambut Kruse’s own writings should be enough to generally support Lea’s misgivings about him.
Which, at best, is tangential to the point of the story.
JD (8ddefe) — 5/11/2012 @ 6:28 amIt seemed to be important to P, JD, that is, anything about the backstory provided by Lea had a legitimate or rational basis.
But redirecting to the larger point that anonymous smears are not looked at with appropriate skepticism and cause distress to innocent people is ok by me.
The caller/mailer was malicious or stupid. I’m guessing malicious.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 6:56 amLea – I read some of the chatter about the IPs and talks some say they have had with the agent you mentioned.
A caution to your guess that he is lying about IPs: The agent saying Kruse has not been provided with IPs is not the same as saying that Kruse has been given no information about the server locations the message might have bounced through. He might have been given that much. And again, the “email” might have come through a phone.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 7:07 amLea,
You are making an extraordinary claim: that Kruse may be responsible for his own victimization. That is the kind of thing that the person who did this to him might say. Now, I am not accusing you of being that person. But I am making the point that we don’t know who you are — and that the only thing we do know about you is that you have an animus towards Kruse, just as the people who did this to him probably did. So my “spidey-sense” goes off when I see an anonymous person come on here and start talking about how he has been a bully; that he might have done this to himself; that he has been reported to his licensing board; etc. All of that means precisely 100% nothing to me. A link to a board where unnamed people quote hearsay means precisely 100% nothing to me. And as an anonymous person trashing a victim in a story, you bear the burden of proof on EVERYTHING you say. EVERYTHING.
I am not here to debate you and I am not here to defend Kruse, about whom I know nothing beyond what was reported in the story I linked. I am here to remind readers, in case they need reminding, that unsourced attacks on someone’s character from an anonymous source should be assigned zero value.
It is not for me to itemize things as to which you need to provide proof. It is for me to remind readers that anything you say not backed up by hard proof should be utterly disregarded. The best way for them to truly disregard it is to realize that, as you are an anonymous person, your motives may be impure. You may have an agenda or personal vendetta. I’m not saying this is happening. I am saying we don’t know. Therefore, only linked proof will do.
And Leviticus? I’m not sure how long you have been reading this blog, but it should be long enough for you to recognize a faux self-aggrandizing tone as humor.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/11/2012 @ 7:09 amSarahW:
I have not followed the links so educate me: how do we know an FBI agent has said anything about this at all? They’re not generally prone to going around making public statements about ongoing investigations. Has there been an official verified statement from the FBI on this? Or “chatter” from anonymous people?
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/11/2012 @ 7:11 amA commenter here made me wince.
If that person misunderstood the agent, or the agent was playing dumb I cannot say. If the officer said that with sincerity, though – Ouch.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 7:23 amPatrick The link above contains a post by Kruse – he posts an agents name and number.
There is some discussion about things an agent or agents on the case have said to people here too, (a paleohacks thread.)
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 7:27 amThe main person talking about contacts with the fbi
is not anonymous. Her website is here:
http://huntgatherlove.com/
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 7:30 amPatterico,
I am absolutely not claiming that Kruse was responsible for his own victimization. Has it crossed my mind? Sure. Do I have any proof of that? Absolutely not, and I never claimed to. The fact of the matter is, virtually all we have to go on is hearsay. The FBI has not issued a statement. Carnival issued a letter to the passengers that verifies that Dr. Kruse was removed from the ship because of suspicions about him having bacteria. I guess that’s about it in terms of “official”, verifiable info. Even the report of the mysterious call/email from Lance/Nance came only from Kruse, I think, though the people who have spoken to Agent Baker said that the FBI is actually looking for such a caller. As SarahW indicates, several people have said that they spoke with Agent Baker after Kruse posted his cell # online. (As Sarah notes, at least one of the people claiming to have spoken to Baker is not anonymous–actually, Patrick Vlaskovits of Paleohacks isn’t anonymous either.) Whether or not the reports of these calls are true, or whether Baker is being totally forthright, who is to say? But given Kruse’s penchant for exaggeration (please, read his blog if you doubt this), I’m not inclined to blindly trust what he says about IPs, conspiracies, etc. So, Patterico, I have a feeling any “evidence” I could provide to you would be dismissed outright as hearsay. But there doesn’t seem to be much else to go on so far in this case.
Lea (fafd54) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:31 amLea confirms what I suspected, that she doesn’t know what happened here but is suspicious of Kruse because of his beliefs. Thus, Lea, I’ll ask you again as I asked above in comment 53:
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:34 amShe is just asking tough questions, DRJ
JD (66b3fb) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:35 amUggghhh, DRJ. Have I ever said I excuse what happened? No. Please don’t put words in my mouth.
Lea (fafd54) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:39 amNone of this helps me with the upcoming Speedo season.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:39 amNo, you never said you excuse what happened. You did suggest that maybe the victim was somehow responsible for his victimization, and splattered all sorts of nonsense about this fine quack all over this thread.
JD (66b3fb) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:44 amMKDP and David Petranos Esq – where are you ?!?!?!
JD (66b3fb) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:45 amWhat nonsense, JD?
Lea (fafd54) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:46 amLea,
I didn’t put words in your mouth. I asked a question, just like the questions you’ve asked about Kruse.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:48 amWould you please answer my question, Lea?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:48 amLook unthread at comments left by “Lea”. That is a good starting point.
JD (66b3fb) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:49 amAnd I answered it, DRJ. (In case my answer still isn’t clear, NO, Kruse’s quackery doesn’t excuse what happened to him.)
Lea (fafd54) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:49 amBottom line, Lea, is that it appears you are trying to argue that Kruse’s extreme or unusual beliefs make it more likely that something strange or questionable will happen to him. That may be true but since your answer is that Kruse’s beliefs don’t excuse a scam against him, then why do we care what his beliefs are?
If, on the other hand, your argument is really that Kruse is so extreme or unusual that you wouldn’t put it past him to orchestrate something like this, that may be. But absent evidence he’s done things like this before, I’d rather wait for the investigation before asserting something like that.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:51 amJD, are you referring to the injection of MRSA? The suspension from his professional society? His “twat”-filled post on freetheanimal.com?
Lea (fafd54) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:52 amNo. Nevermind. What DRJ said.
JD (66b3fb) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:54 amDRJ, I have not asserted that he orchestrated this. As I have said before, it has crossed my mind. And I noted in my post above that there is a paucity of information/evidence in this re: what exactly happened and who may be responsible.
Lea (fafd54) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:56 am“And Leviticus? I’m not sure how long you have been reading this blog, but it should be long enough for you to recognize a faux self-aggrandizing tone as humor.”
– Patterico
Sorry if I misunderstood (seriously). But (also seriously), it doesn’t read like a joke when you follow it up with “people looooooove to take unverified crap at face value.” And – to repeat the point that a lot of people made before – it’s a little hard to tell whether or not we’ve drifted into “clown nose on/clown nose off” territory with these all these little admonitions to verification.
And I’ve been reading for ~6 years.
Leviticus (870be5) — 5/11/2012 @ 10:18 amQuackwatch article on low carb diets here
carlitos (49ef9f) — 5/11/2012 @ 10:50 amJust in case people thought I was kidding about that Sunlight Diet and the best tanned corpse. Those Indian Gurus, they got it going!
Do not try this at home without the advice of medical professionals.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/11/2012 @ 11:08 amLea hasn’t misrepresented anything, I’ll vouch for that much.
Look, Kruse has recently been suspended from a profesional organization for giving false testimony in a deposition. This man is not to be trusted implicitly. http://www.aansneurosurgeon.org/210112/8/1210
In my judgement it would be natural for people who know of and about Kruse to have at least fleeting suspicions of many aspects of his story – and even to wonder whether he might have staged the situation to benefit himself. It occurred to ME, though I don’t think it’s the case now, so I can’t be very hard on Lea for the notion.
Even if Kruse is all he is purported to be by his detractors, which I guess by now includes me, nothing would justify someone who knows what that twitter account is about using it to make trouble for Kruse, let alone the cruiseline, the passengers, and law enforcement.
But in this particular case I can’t say I think it’s wrong or looney or unfair to consider it, though I tend to think he is truly the victim of a malicious enemy.
SarahW (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 11:33 amSarahW and Lea,
I guess I don’t get your point. You both seem to say Kruse’s beliefs don’t excuse a scam like this, and also that you don’t know if he orchestrated this but it’s possible. My point is that until we know or have reason to know he was involved, what does it matter if his ideas are different?
To me, the only possible relevance of your concerns is that his background involves something that says he might actually do this himself. But simply holding different beliefs doesn’t make someone fair game for scams like this or more likely to orchestrate one … and please don’t tell me that you never said this. Because Lea especially seems to be arguing that Kruse’s beliefs somehow justify questioning what really happened and whether he was involved.
I don’t have a problem with discussing his beliefs or with questioning whether this story is true, but specifically how do the two things go together?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 12:50 pmI honestly have no idea whether Kruse is a genius or a lunatic, even though his recommendations have benefited my health tremendously. Kruse’s biggest proven crime is to be an arrogant foul-mouthed guy who doesn’t always bother to type on a keyboard or proofread.
His claim to have injected MRSA is only a crazy lie if it’s a lie. He has many witnesses, the medical team involved was not bothered, and his detractors have not yet provided any evidence to disprove his claim other than skepticism. Can a person withstand infection if his immune system is strong enough? This was what he was testing, and not without successful experiments leading up to this ultimate “biohack.” His experiment isn’t unprecedented; google Wim Hof.
The remaining “proof” of his shadiness is the suspension for “providing false testimony” in a deposition as an expert witness, regarding the size of pins another neurosurgeon used. This could be a deliberate lie, or it could be a case of misspeaking. At this time, we do not have any context or other information.
Almost every instance I’ve ever used or seen an expert witness, (s)he has misspoken at least once. This certainly doesn’t normally result in an admonishment, but if the peer group already disapproved of the person’s behavior and wanted to slap his hand (which is what a trade organization suspension is), that’s conceivable. It’s not unusual for doctors to get riled up when someone is working outside the normal “standard of care,” whether the individual is having success or not. They perceive it as putting them all at risk.
Again, *I don’t know* the full truth on the stories about the MRSA & the AANS censure. But neither do any of his critics. Any speculation that he would set this cruise thing up himself rests on him being a liar in the other two cases.
For the most part, his critics don’t even disagree with his recommendations – eating a traditional diet that is seasonal with respect to carbs, being mindful of seasonal light & temperature variations, and using those approaches to prevent & treat conditions before resorting to medication, when possible. The reason they reviled him, long before the MRSA incident was … he’s a sucky typist & has a fat head.
Leigh (f140de) — 5/11/2012 @ 12:54 pmBy the way, Lea, I think your link that Dr. Kruse gave false testimony is highly relevant if your intent to is call Kruse’s veracity and honesty into question. What I disagree with is your conclusion that “rather than taking his words at face value, [readers should] do their due diligence and do a little background research on the man.” It’s one thing to spout off online or even to express strange views. It’s another thing to target someone in a way that ends up like this “prank.” I can’t help but conclude that you seem to think he deserved it or, at the very least, that Patterico’s post was deficient because it didn’t expose Kruse’s unusual views.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 1:10 pmDRJ’s point is good. It’s one thing to be a jerk online, or even just weird online.
Hell, the reason I comment on political blogs is to test ideas. Some of them fail, some of them succeed, and most of them need to be firmed up. That’s exposed by arguing with smart people. Arguing can be spirited… or worse… and I enjoy being able to test my ideas anonymously so I can easily evolve and understand issues better.
People earnestly (that word is key) spouting off weird stuff online are doing the world a favor by putting the ideas out in the arena like that, instead of holding them inside.
One liar has claimed I blogged at a Muslim Hate Blog (in fact I am sensitive to bigotry against Muslims and middle eastern people). Suppose they were right, though. Or suppose Kruse really is spouting culty weird ideas. Which I’m inclined to say he is.
That is a far cry from saying he’s the kind of person who would set himself up with the kind of thing that happened to him.
That’s not to say it’s impossible. Just that such a thought, without evidence, rings that smear tone to my ears, which are quite well tuned to what smears sound like these days.
Also, I agree with Patterico that the FBI wouldn’t be spouting out about their investigation publicly. Anonymous sources claiming they know what the police are saying about this kind of crime are extremely suspicious to me. What is their angle? Let the investigation play out.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/11/2012 @ 1:39 pmElephant Stone,
I don’t think Leviticus’ comment wasn’t about law enforcement. I think his point relates back to Patterico’s April Fool’s Day post that cautioned us not to believe everything we read or hear.
It’s funny how this keeps coming up but I guess I’m in the same boat as Leviticus. I didn’t realize Patterico was being humorous in the post when he cautioned us about anonymous sources. I thought he meant it seriously and I still think he means it, but the veneer of sarcasm makes it hard to be sure.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 2:05 pmDRJ, speaking only for myself, Its not “different” ideas I associate with erratic, self-serving, or dishonest behavior, but abjectly outrageous, unethical, and dissembling behavior and expressions that are consistently displayed.
So I would say “different ideas” in the general sense are no indicationI of good or bad character or tendencies. In other words, as irrelevant as you propose them to be.
Also, I don’t think he set himself up, period.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 2:14 pmLeigh, I would by no means denigrate any mode of self care that has improved your well – being,
The MRSA thing is not nothing, however; it’s outrageous, unethical, and/ or crazeeeeeeeee whether it is something he tells a tale about to sell himsel and his notions,, or something he really did…the latter would be creating serious medical risk for other patients, his treating physician and care givers, and his own family.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 2:21 pmEverybody in the world should have a security clearance and have to carry it wherever they go.
Of course I’m joking, but you can bet the UN has thought about it.
Does a 1911 qualify?
AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92) — 5/11/2012 @ 2:29 pmIt certainly would keep the U.N. in line.
drj, more to your point, if I had one it’s that fleeting, or even lingering suspicion that Kruse might exaggerate details of the investigation,, or be capable of resorting to a stunt to expose the persons who contribute to the satire account is not really loony or beyond the pale. kruse has a bad reputation for exaggeration that he took pains to earn.
I think a troublemaker is behind the communication to the cruise line, but I can’t be sure of the exact nature of the complaint or warning. By Carnivals’ own account in the letter to passengers , there wasn’t enough to tie him to that account, let alone a threat, to justify calling in law enforcement. I don’t know if that’s the whoe story. I’ll be interested to find out the actual nature of the information as the source.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 2:36 pmSarahW,
Is it fair to say you don’t object to Kruse’s ideas but to his “outrageous, unethical, and dissembling behavior”? If so, what specific behaviors do you find objectionable — you should be able to identify them if they form the basis of your opinion — and how do you know they occurred?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 2:36 pmI understand forming an opinion based on conduct and character, and I agree that is valid. But I’m having trouble with forming an opinion based on online conduct and character. At this point, with the exception of the false testimony link, complaints about Kruse seem to be based on online comments and allegations. What am I missing that supports we should distrust Kruse other than his unusual beliefs?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 2:39 pmDustin, I am sick myself of anonymous sources. The FBI stuff mainly comes from a person open about her actual identity, however. There’s a couple of links above relating to her and a thread where she commented on her conversation.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 2:45 pmIf she actually talked to the FBI, she could have made assumptions based on the questions she was asked or based on an FBI agent’s failure to correct statements she made. Simply because an FBI agent asked you questions isn’t a reason to assume you know the purpose, scope or results of the investigation.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 2:51 pmDRJ, I already linked some of it, and indirectly that links to hi TEDx MRSA claims. That is even recorded, if you want to hear it.
His own writings you might find more subjective evidence …
Sarahw (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 2:54 pmthey are available;, and I linked some; they must speak for themselves; you are welcome to form your own opinion if you care to form an opinion.
DRJ, I already linked some of it, and indirectly that links to hi TEDx MRSA claims. That is even recorded, if you want to hear it.
His own writings you might find more subjective evidence …
Sarahw (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 2:54 pmthey are available;, and I linked some; they must speak for themselves; you are welcome to form your own opinion if you care to form an opinion.
By TEDx and MRSA, you are referring to the MRSA experiment, correct? I’m sure you agree we shouldn’t believe everything we read or see online but if it’s true, don’t scientists and doctors frequently conduct experiments to prove their hypotheses?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 2:58 pmDrj – no controversy about that re FBI convo and that person. I made the same qualifications myself. I cautioned also about reading too much into the ISP business.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 3:00 pmShe’s not some nameless person, however, and has some record and reputation to be judged against, as opposed to a soopersekrit handle or unknown sock
I’m being sincere here, SarahW, and I’m not trying to argue. If you form an opinion about Kruse based on his writings, how is that an opinion based on his behavior instead of his beliefs?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 3:01 pmDRJ, check it out if you are curious.
There is no set of circumstances in which his description becomes an ethical or scientifically useful protocol. seriously.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 3:03 pmdrj, that’s a little like the Dwight Schutte ” nothing rhymes with orange” cartoon going around…
I included his expressions in all those things that formed the basis of my opinion, also… Why did you exclude that?
I don’t begrudge anyone their own sense and own judgement, I gave my own, but it shouldn’t be a substitute for some one else’s
Sarahw (b0e533) — 5/11/2012 @ 3:15 pmYeah, I realize now I was mistaken. Thanks.
Regardless, even a good faith person is unlikely to get all details about an active investigation’s progress from competent law enforcement. At least in my estimation.
When such details emerge, either they are from someone who probably doesn’t have all the details, someone who probably should keep a lid on such details, or someone with a motive to actually do some mischief. As a general matter, to be clear.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/11/2012 @ 3:18 pmSarahW,
I don’t understand your last response and I’m too tired to decipher it. I’m also tired of your repeated instructions to read the links about Kruse and decide for myself. I don’t know why you assume I haven’t read them.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 3:20 pmWouldn’t surprise me at all.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:34 pmI did stipulate “competent”.
Dustin (330eed) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:44 pmLeviticus says:
And DRJ says:
You guys might be in the same boat — but I’m tossing you both off that boat because of an anonymous comment someone made.
That was a joke. And, OK, it wasn’t all that funny. At all. nk constantly reminds me to stick to my day job.
But I’ll elaborate on this a little.
The very title of this blog, Patterico’s Pontifications, has a bit of tongue in cheek aspect to it, as does the tagline: “Harangues that just make sense.” I have always tried to take the joking attitude that “my God my rants are just so important and compelling that THE WHOLE WORLD must pay attention!!” — and the underlying tone (which hopefully comes across sometimes) is I’m not REALLY taking myself all that seriously but rather gently mocking the Blogger Ethic that says everyone must always take us bloggers seriously all the time.
Where it gets confusing, I think, is when I inject this faux pomposity, even a tiny bit, into a subject matter that I actually do feel very strongly about. And, as DRJ and JD and SarahW and a handful of others know, there is a very good reason I feel strongly about the issue of anonymous people trashing others. And indeed, there is a subtext to this entire post — a parallel story to which JD has alluded, which makes it impossible for me to view this story with complete objectivity, because I have been in a situation rather similar to that of Dr. Kruse. Indeed, I intend to tell this story sometime fairly soon, as certain restrictions that have held me back are no longer in place. But when I see a guy victimized like this, and see people accusing him of being under investigation or a bully or whatever else they want to throw at him, I recognize tactics from the would-be bullies who placed me in that similar situation. And it makes me ESPECIALLY sensitive about people making accusations without backing them up.
At the same time, the faux pomposity is just a habit. I have been doing it since February 2003, for goodness’s sake, since the very first post on my blog, where I talked about a world regime where my opinions would be forced onto every man, woman, and child in the world, or something along those lines. So when I say something like: how do the editors of the L.A. Times not react to what I’m saying? or Mitt Romney would be doing better if he just read Patterico! or the law enforcement agents who pulled Kruse off that boat evidently didn’t read my warnings! . . . well, with that sort of thing, I am kinda kidding.
So when Leviticus purports to tease me for that sort of thing, I’m thinking he doesn’t quite get it. But again, sometimes I’m the only one who gets my jokes. Which is kind of an elaborate way of saying that sometimes (often? always?) I’m not very funny.
Even if my substantive rant is very serious, I just constantly have this “look how important my writings are!” thing going that really is, honest to God, pretty much a joke.
This is extremely rambling and I don’t really have time to tighten it up to where it makes sense, so it probably makes no sense at all. Just wanted to respond to a couple of valuable readers to hopefully clarify all this.
It’s awful to have explain a joke. It’s probably worse to have to explain an unfunny joke. But there you have it, for what it’s worth.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/11/2012 @ 8:57 pmWell, these days I’m running about 20% of my jokes being “gotten” by those in earshot.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 9:01 pmAppreciate the “chalk talk” Patterico.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/11/2012 @ 9:34 pmPatterico,
I admire your serious opinions as well as your humor and humility. But if you combine those qualities in a single point, post or paragraph, then I encourage you:
1. To expect that some of us might misunderstand your point, and
2. To be willing to explain your point if that happens.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 10:16 pmOn further thought, that’s an inappropriate comment on my part. It’s your blog and you can think, write and pontificate however you want.
I admire you, your opinions, and your regular commenters. But that doesn’t give me the right to tell you how to blog or to tell others how to comment.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/11/2012 @ 10:37 pmDRJ,
Anyone has the right to tell me how to try to be more clear. You more than almost anyone. If there’s any point I try to repeatedly make here, it’s that I don’t actually consider myself this big “teacher” type who is here to impart knowledge, but more someone who just flies off the handle and rants, and sometimes people enjoy the rants, and I learn things from these people.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/11/2012 @ 11:25 pmYour comment helped me because I admit I do view you as similar to a teacher when you post on serious topics. I think you are like a teacher if your goal is to educate people or open minds to other ideas.
I’m also conflicted about humble pontificating. It’s hard to combine them, even though you do it better than anyone I’ve seen online. Still, I wonder if it sometimes sends a mixed message that you want to talk about serious topics but you don’t expect people to take your ideas seriously.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/12/2012 @ 6:52 am“Oh Lord, it’s hard to be humble,
When you’re perfect in every way.”
Mac Davis song. Remember that one?
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/12/2012 @ 1:35 pmI’m doing the best that I can.
Patterico (feda6b) — 5/12/2012 @ 1:39 pmYou’ll just use me, then you’ll set me free. Watching Scotty grow. It’s too late, I’ll never fall in love again.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 5/12/2012 @ 1:46 pmI remember Mac. He’s from Lubbock.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 5/12/2012 @ 2:00 pmPeople named Mac are almost inevitably cool.
JD (395555) — 5/12/2012 @ 2:01 pmThere isn’t much about early 70s AM radio that is cool, but that much is true, JD.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 5/12/2012 @ 2:11 pm