Patterico's Pontifications

5/2/2012

When Is a Hate Crime a Hate Crime?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:23 am

I’ll tell you when it isn’t. When the races don’t fit the narrative:

Wave after wave of young men surged forward to take turns punching and kicking their victim.

The victim’s friend, a young woman, tried to pull him back into his car. Attackers came after her, pulling her hair, punching her head and causing a bloody scratch to the surface of her eye. She called 911. A recording told her all lines were busy. She called again. Busy. On her third try, she got through and, hysterical, could scream only their location.

. . . .

Forster and Rostami, both white, suffered a beating at the hands of a crowd of black teenagers.

If you reversed the races, would this be national news? Would we be hearing from Al Sharpton?

As it happens, it is being publicized by an opinion columnist. Who says: “Forster and Rostami’s story has not, until today, appeared in this paper.”

Thanks to dana.

178 Responses to “When Is a Hate Crime a Hate Crime?”

  1. Doesn’t an act have to first be considered a ‘crime,’ before it is eligible to be labeled a ‘hate crime’ ?

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  2. Eisenhower is congested, doctor decides to get off and take Lake Street home to River Forest. He comes to Pulaski, red light, five black teenagers chilling on the corner. He runs the red light. Policeman pulls him over. Doctor explains, “I saw the gang on the corner and was afraid to stop”. Policeman says, “You were right not to stop, but I am giving you a ticket, anyway, so that you will never take this street again”.

    nk (875f57)

  3. History will harshly judge modern day racism (Which includes denial of any kind of anti white racism).

    It is institutional, it is preventable, and everyone is aware of it.

    Dustin (330eed)

  4. nk’s police officer sounds like a wise man.

    Dustin (330eed)

  5. _____________________________________________

    Forster and Rostami, both white, suffered a beating at the hands of a crowd of black teenagers.

    Beyond the race of the two victims, aren’t they also employees of the very newspaper that published an editorial on the event? I believe one of them may even be a reporter/writer. If so, there’s a good chance that the political slant of one or both of them leans left. Perhaps that made them more naive and foolish about the nature of demographics in general, about the aspects of an environment they find themselves in in particular?

    The MSM, certainly in big cities, has been favoring for quite awhile a policy in which news stories do not describe the race or ethnicity of suspects in various crimes. There’s also a saying that a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged. But some liberals are so idiotic, they can be mugged time and time again — in any number of ways — and they’ll merely look up, look down, and then shrug.

    Mark (411533)

  6. White on Black = “Hate Crime”
    Black on White = “Striking Back Against Oppression”

    Isn’t that easy?

    Ralph Gizzip (5ab3ea)

  7. “Hate crimes” are mostly a prosecutorial political tool. Maybe one exception (abused lady), I never yet met a criminal who loved his victim. But, then, I haven’t been alround all that much.

    nk (875f57)

  8. Resist We Much.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  9. stay in the car

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  10. It’s a hate crime if the couple were attacked because they were white in an effort to intimidate whites. The majority of hate crime cases brought are on behalf of whites. There has yet to be, nor will there be, hate crime brought in the Trayvon case.

    Sorry, but I gotta call narrative fail on this one.

    Alex (002494)

  11. my hunch is if the couple hadn’t been so blatantly white they wouldn’t have been attacked

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  12. Last Summer, the Wisconsin State Fair near Milwaukee experienced a rash of black on white mob violence that extended outside of the fair into nearby neighborhoods.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  13. 12: a bunch of kids going wild isn’t a hate crime. Not to excuse their actions.

    Alex (002494)

  14. With more and more bi-racial people being born isn’t it gonna really complicate hate crime perpetrations and hate crime laws in the future? Zimmerman, the black Jewish white Hispanic, well demonstrates the possible confusion, I think. Maybe people can just carry DNA reports on their persons to show and ward off thugs who are only looking for people of certain races to beat up.

    elissa (644c73)

  15. “12: a bunch of kids going wild isn’t a hate crime.”

    Alex – What do you call it?

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2011/0812/Wisconsin-State-Fair-mob-attack-Police-seek-hate-crime-charges

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  16. 15: my understanding of hate crime law is that (for example) targeting an Asian for robbery because you think they carry cash is not a hate crime. Rather you have to be targeting a protected class (Asian in this case) because you either have particular anger toward Asians, and/or intend to intimidate Asians for some reason (drive them out of your neighborhood).

    Alex (002494)

  17. I hate crime. I hate criminals, too.

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  18. Alex–it’s often hard to prove intent isn’t it? (Unless they’ve posted a rant on facebook or bragged on twitter.)

    elissa (644c73)

  19. 18: yes, that’s why hate crime enhancements are rare. How do you prove what is in someones heart?

    Alex (002494)

  20. “Rather you have to be targeting a protected class”

    Alex – You believe a hate crime can only be committed against someone in a protected class? Interesting.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  21. 20 that’s the law. I think you don’t understand hate crime law.

    Alex (002494)

  22. “I’ll tell you when it isn’t. When the races don’t fit the narrative:”

    From the FBI:

    In 2010, the races of the 6,008 known hate crime offenders were as follows:

    58.6 percent were white.
    18.4 percent were black.

    Among the single-bias hate crime incidents in 2010, there were 3,949 victims of racially motivated hate crime. A closer examination of these victim data showed that:

    70.0 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-black bias.
    17.7 percent were victims of an anti-white bias.

    TJ (6eeaf5)

  23. Reginald Denny begs to disgree. (About the protected class thingy I mean.)

    elissa (644c73)

  24. Reginald Denny forgave his attackers, and stated that he understood their anger. They asked his forgiveness on Donahue (I’m old!). Not relevant to this discussion.

    Alex (002494)

  25. I am SHOCKED that Alex and iamadimwit are trying to be apologists and sophists for a hate crime.

    JD (af0c3c)

  26. “20 that’s the law. I think you don’t understand hate crime law.”

    Alex – Heh. I believe the opposite is true. Below is the applicable section of Wisonsin statutes regarding penalties for hate crimes. Please point out where you see any references to protected classes.

    939.645  Penalty; crimes committed against certain people or property.
    (1) If a person does all of the following, the penalties for the underlying crime are increased as provided in sub. (2):
    (a) Commits a crime under chs. 939 to 948.
    (b) Intentionally selects the person against whom the crime under par. (a) is committed or selects the property that is damaged or otherwise affected by the crime under par. (a) in whole or in part because of the actor’s belief or perception regarding the race, religion, color, disability, sexual orientation, national origin or ancestry of that person or the owner or occupant of that property, whether or not the actor’s belief or perception was correct.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  27. I’m not appologizing for anyone, and I find your jumping to such a conclusion revealing

    Alex (002494)

  28. 200 bankruptcies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!eleventy

    Daley – don’t confuzzle them with facts.

    JD (af0c3c)

  29. “I find your jumping to such a conclusion revealing”

    Alex – How about your’s:

    “20 that’s the law. I think you don’t understand hate crime law.”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  30. Apologia is Greek for defense. You know, back in the days of the sophists who would argue insincerely?

    Dustin (330eed)

  31. back in the days

    Dustin (330eed)

  32. JD – Facts are things that come out of Alex’s butt.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  33. Jd and daleyrocks, can’t debate so they hate. But they can copy and paste; do they assume this ability means they comprehend?

    Alex (002494)

  34. “Below is the applicable section of Wisonsin statutes regarding penalties for hate crimes.”

    And the Wisconsin law was unanimously upheld by the Supreme Court in a case involving black assailants and a white victim.

    But apparently there is a narrative?

    TJ (6eeaf5)

  35. I don’t hate you Alex. It is telling that you conflate my disagreement with you vapid commentary as hate. It is revealing, as you said.

    JD (af0c3c)

  36. I like this narrative. TJ has commented, and been banned at this site, under more names and pseudonyms than any other person. It has the added benefit of being true.

    Screw with their narrative, and it shows how they view race as a political cudgel, not something they actually care about.

    JD (af0c3c)

  37. Mark, I believe the editors of the Virginia Pilot bent over backwards to NOT print this so as not to be considered as biased in any direction.
    It is much easier to appear as a pretzel after your spine is removed.
    The telling point is that if the races of those involved were reversed, this would have led the evening news shows in VA, and across the country; and would have produced banner headlines on the front pages of newspapers in all of the major media markets.
    The Racism that exists today primarily has to be overcome in the circles of the intelligentsia.

    AD-RtR-OS! (b8ab92)

  38. 37: so mark, you are saying if the victim was black and the offender white it would be a big story? Because there are about 3000 hate crimes a year against blacks, and I don’t see the media jumping on even 1% of them.

    Narrative fail

    Alex (002494)

  39. Alex declared this a failure. Therefore it is. STFU stupid wingers.

    JD (af0c3c)

  40. Sorry, I mean ad rtr, not mark

    Alex (002494)

  41. Anyone that disagrees with me is a stupid Paultard paleocon Obama supporter.

    JD (af0c3c)

  42. “17.7 percent were victims of an anti-white bias.”

    - TJ

    The whole point, dude, is that you would think someone would have at least raised the question as to whether or not this case falls into that 17.7 percent. The fact that no one did is the double standard that Pat’s identifying; don’t you think it would have been an issue if it had been a group of white men beating a couple of black guys?

    Leviticus (870be5)

  43. If these teens chose to beat this couple up because the couple is white. That makes it a hate crime. How do we prove this? I don’t think it can be proven, but I believe it’s true.

    Police and city government downplay these events because they are afraid of the rioting black mob that may develop if justice is done.

    The fact that these mob beaters are so often juveniles means we need to start prosecuting juveniles as adults — can we give these “kids” time to mature when their actions may mean a death of an innocent person?

    And what about the 13 or 17 black “folk” who rode along to the Matthew Owens beating? They will be charged with nothing because they only watched. Either they have a sick idea of entertainment or they went there to protect the beaters and foil any attempt to stop the beating. They are guilty of being an intimidating accessory to the crime. But the town is afraid of the rioting black mob ….

    Hmmmm .... (ba8dc6)

  44. 43: so the legal system is terrified of blacks and their potential to riot, thus it avoids bringing black to justice? Is that the crux of your point?

    Alex (002494)

  45. 42: read 38 please, that’s your answer

    Alex (002494)

  46. Alex, would you please call Pat Sajak, and buy a clue.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  47. Free Derbyshire.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  48. 46: anything to say about 38? Or just references to Wheel of Fortune, where by the way they don’t sell clues?

    Lol

    Alex (002494)

  49. 37: so mark, you are saying if the victim was black and the offender white it would be a big story? Because there are about 3000 hate crimes a year against blacks

    Of your allegedly accurate numbers, how many involved 2 black teens being beaten by an angry mob of black teens?

    JD (af0c3c)

  50. The stories the media jumps on are the ones that smell like controversy. Like “white neighborhood watchman shoots unarmed black child; no charges filed” are the ones they can exploit.

    The problem is that they’re failing to report on actual problems. Derbyshire may have stepped over some lines, but some of what he said is true. Like if you see a large group of black people, go the other way. And it’s sad that it needs to be said.

    Obama could stop all of it with one “we are not that kind of people” speech, but this is what social justice was all about to begin with.

    Ghost (6f9de7)

  51. Well then, call Alex Trebek; they’re interchangeable anyway (though Pat had the delicious Vanna).

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  52. 51: the don’t sell clues on jeopardy either.

    Alex (002494)

  53. Like if you see a large group of black people, go the other way.

    Remember Jesse’s comments about hearing footsteps behind him at night.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  54. 50: so if I see a group of black people I should go the other way? Just generally, or in certain cases?

    Alex (002494)

  55. AD – it doesn’t really matter where “Alex” could buy a vowel, or a clue, as he has proven to be resistant to logic and good faith, repeatedly. A cluebat to the forehead would be ineffective.

    JD (af0c3c)

  56. As they always say, “Garbage in –garbage out”, Alex. If police don’t charge hate crimes against whites, or blacks, for a variety of reasons (some of which you’ve mentioned yourself) then how are the statistics you keep quoting remotely valid? How are they uh, “relevant” or useful?

    elissa (644c73)

  57. don’t hate crime me bro

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  58. Alex, well that just shows that I don’t watch a lot of TV, and spend my time absorbing real data, instead of having to just make up stuff.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  59. Bingo, Elissa. Both “Alex” and “TJ” rely on that exact same rhetorical sleight of hand.

    JD (af0c3c)

  60. JD, even a 230g lobotomy would be ineffective, as there is nothing to disconnect.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  61. I take the repeated inability to debate to be tacit admission that I am correct, thank you!, and that y’all are trolling, no thank you.

    Victorious, I shall depart.

    Alex (002494)

  62. I work here is done.

    Epic flounce, “Alex”. Thank you.

    JD (af0c3c)

  63. “If police don’t charge hate crimes against whites, or blacks, for a variety of reasons (some of which you’ve mentioned yourself) then how are the statistics you keep quoting remotely valid?”

    The FBI statistics are based on reports, not charges.

    TJ (6eeaf5)

  64. “Jd and daleyrocks, can’t debate so they hate.”

    Alex – You’re funny. You told me I was wrong on the law, that it applied only to protected classes.

    I produced the law showing you were wrong. You can’t admit it.

    Check other states or federal law.

    Proving Alex wrong = Hate

    I work here is done

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  65. TJ likes anonymizers

    JD (af0c3c)

  66. ==Epic flounce, “Alex”.==

    Was that pink tulle we just saw?

    elissa (644c73)

  67. Sorry, but I gotta call narrative fail on this one.
    Comment by Alex — 5/2/2012 @ 9:10 am

    – That is extremely self-aware of you. And you caught yourself before the end of your failing post, too! Good job, but don’t be too hard on yourself.

    a bunch of kids going wild isn’t a hate crime. Not to excuse their actions.
    Comment by Alex — 5/2/2012 @ 9:19 am

    – Yes. Thank God that kids don’t hate each other based on their differences. Why, if they did, there might be such a thing as “bullying” going on. Can you imagine?

    Rather you have to be targeting a protected class (Asian in this case) because you either have particular anger toward Asians, and/or intend to intimidate Asians for some reason (drive them out of your neighborhood).
    Comment by Alex — 5/2/2012 @ 9:41 am

    – Right. Now, what do you think the kids in that case daleyrocks mentioned were doing?

    yes, that’s why hate crime enhancements are rare. How do you prove what is in someones heart?
    Comment by Alex — 5/2/2012 @ 9:56 am

    – Ask Chrissie Leg-Tingle. He knows.

    Alex – You believe a hate crime can only be committed against someone in a protected class? Interesting.
    Comment by daleyrocks — 5/2/2012 @ 9:57 am

    that’s the law. I think you don’t understand hate crime law.
    Comment by Alex — 5/2/2012 @ 9:59 am

    – Please show us where, in ANY jurisdiction in the USA, that is the law. GO!

    Jd and daleyrocks, can’t debate so they hate. But they can copy and paste; do they assume this ability means they comprehend?
    Comment by Alex — 5/2/2012 @ 10:24 am

    – Why not? That’s what you do.

    I’m not appologizing for anyone, and I find your jumping to such a conclusion revealing
    Comment by Alex — 5/2/2012 @ 10:14 am

    – True. Liberals never apologize for anything, certainly not the people they exploit for voting power. They’re all oppressed little angels, you see.

    Icy (f263d7)

  68. _____________________________________________

    37: so mark, you are saying if the victim was black and the offender white it would be a big story?

    And, Alex, you truly, sincerely, honestly believe that if the employees of the Virginia Pilot (as mentioned by AD-RtR) were black and they had been attacked by a bunch of skin heads (ie, whites), the newspaper would have treated the story in the exact same way? And that the MSM in general would have responded no differently too?

    But, yes, there are lots of crimes occurring on any given day that receive absolutely no media coverage. And, yes, some of those incidents involve white-on-black hate crimes. But statistically and numerically far more crimes each day fall into the garden-variety category of robbery, burglary, rape, murder, etc, and a disproportionate share of those crimes involve suspects who are black. If the stats weren’t so disproportionate — repeat: disproportionate — the media would have never flouted the credo of “who, what, when, where, how and why” in the first place and instead done back flips to avoid mentioning the race or ethnicity of any number of suspects in a variety of crimes.

    Mark (411533)

  69. so if I see a group of black people I should go the other way? Just generally, or in certain cases?
    Comment by Alex — 5/2/2012 @ 11:08 am

    – Oh no no! By all means, you should walk right over to them and say “What up, blood?” Go ahead. We’ll be over here, watching.

    Victorious, I shall depart.
    Comment by Alex — 5/2/2012 @ 11:15 am

    – Don’t let the door hit you in the head on your way out.

    Icy (f263d7)

  70. Just in case he missed the important comment:
    Alex – You believe a hate crime can only be committed against someone in a protected class? Interesting.
    Comment by daleyrocks — 5/2/2012 @ 9:57 am

    that’s the law. I think you don’t understand hate crime law.
    Comment by Alex — 5/2/2012 @ 9:59 am
    – Please show us where, in ANY jurisdiction in the USA, that is the law. GO!

    Icy (f263d7)

  71. Like cockroaches, they flee, when the light is shined upon them.

    JD (af0c3c)

  72. Police and city government downplay these events because they are afraid of the rioting black mob that may develop if justice is done.

    How well would a rioting black mob do against Daisy Cutters delivered by A-10′s?

    Michael Ejercito (64388b)

  73. Personally I am worried over Mr. Feets safety from that mob of Imperial Haughty Lesbians at that restaurant what he goes to.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  74. I never sit with my back to the room there and I don’t make eye contact to where they might would interpret it as a challenge

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  75. Mr. Feets – Rulz to live by. You should write a safety manual.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  76. If you are wondering about possible editorial bias at the local paper, the former publisher, Maurice Jones, was confirmed a month ago as Deputy Secretary of HUD. I think it is fair to say they might have a Team Obama tilt.

    Tom Maguire (3c33d7)

  77. 73.Personally I am worried over Mr. Feets safety from that mob of Imperial Haughty Lesbians at that restaurant what he goes to.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 5/2/2012 @ 11:56 am

    He’s fine. I’m there, too, and I am a cunning bilinguist.

    nk (875f57)

  78. The rule is simple.

    It is not a hate crime if a leftwingwacko does it.

    The Borg (c53dce)

  79. Just for the record, Daisy Cutters won’t fit on an A-10

    Rorschach (c5574d)

  80. Alex,

    Your attempts to explain this away is the real fail here.

    If a people can hate…they can commit a hate crime. Lemme guess… you’re gonna say there is no proof of their hate… right?

    And you want us to believe this was just a bunch of wilding kids? That doesn’t wash anymore.

    trax (6f0afe)

  81. I’ll tell you when it isn’t. When the races don’t fit the narrative…

    You’re all confused. Hate crimes laws aren’t about justice. I touched on this in a comment on the thread about how a NC “racial justice” law saved a black racist from the death penalty after he declared his intention to get a white guy and gunned down a teenager with a shotgun blast to the face. If you thought that law had anything to do with justice as normal people use the term, you perceived irony in that result. If you understood the prism through which critical theorists, including critical race theorists who adopted the marxist approach, view the capitalist country that is the US you understood it was the intended outcome.

    And if you understand them, you’ll understand their attitude toward facts. Sometimes, the ones you need just aren’t there. So, a lie in service of the truth becomes the truth.

    As H.L. Mencken noted, “(t)he whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

    The whole point of these laws is to generate the statistics liberals need to convince minorities that evil whites want to burn black churches, return to Jim Crow if not actually reintroduce slavery, and legalize lynchings.

    I don’t see how anyone can doubt me as all of these themes have been featured in democratic campaign adds or more recently in the message with which the CBC was trying to propagandize its captive racial audience. Here’s just one example.

    Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks ‘hanging on a tree’ Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62396.html#ixzz1tkvZr6U9

    You can’t support the racial agenda of the democratic party, and it’s much more difficult to terrorize minorities and maintain the siege mentality, without fabricating and planting the evidence to somehow counter objective reality.

    “Fast & Furious” was motivated by a similar impulse but for a different objective. If the facts don’t support Obama’s claim that the majority of guns used by Mexican drug cartels come from US gun stores then by gawd the DoJ will run guns into Mexico until Obama’s claim looks plausible. No matter how many Mexicans have to die.

    Or, in the case of manufacturing the evidence to support the democratic party’s claim that this is an incorrigibly racist country, no matter how many racially-motivated crimes against whites they have to ignore.

    When you’re out to get make a “justice for Trayvon” omelet, you’ve got to break a few eggs.

    And eggs don’t count because nearly all of the ones they sell in the store are white.

    Steve (8ab96a)

  82. So it’s revenge?

    trax (6f0afe)

  83. Did you think “social justice” was ever anything but revenge?

    Ghost (6f9de7)

  84. I know what it is..

    When you begin to hate you turn yourself into the very thing you think you’re fighting against.

    trax (6f0afe)

  85. So true, Trax.

    Dustin (330eed)

  86. From the Virginia Pilot’s Code of Ethics, which are much easier to loftily write and make declarations of rather than actually put in practice.

    We must be aggressive in publishing the news. The independence of our editors, reporters and photographers is not for sale. There are no sacred cows. No territory of legitimate public interest is off limits to fair and competent reporting and comments.

    Freedom makes a place for excellence. That place must be filled with professional discipline, with respect for the public we serve, and with a keen sense of fairness to all individuals. We must never pander to passions or forget for a moment the power of the printed word to do wrong as well as to right wrong.

    The first priority of Landmark newspapers is to present a faithful and accurate picture of the life of their communities. This requires detailed coverage of local events, institutions and people’s activities.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  87. Link.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  88. alex none of the things you say about hate crimes applies if the victim is black.

    tommy mc donnell (3bd3df)

  89. Tommy – rarely does anything he says have real world applications.

    JD (2585aa)

  90. “12: a bunch of kids going wild isn’t a hate crime. Not to excuse their actions.”

    Alex, are you ignoring the victims and witnesses who reported the racist speech of the attackers?

    pst314 (49d034)

  91. I’ve heard bits of a few talk shows where the topic has been race relations- are they better now than before Obama took office.
    The answer from African-American callers is that they are worse, but it is not Obama’s fault, it’s just that all of the below-the-surface racism has come out and has been exposed.

    Now, that may be a very minority view but held by people motivated to call into a radio show to speak their mind. I hope that is the case, but I’m afraid it isn’t if 95%+ of African-Americans vote for Obama again.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  92. once is accident, twice is coincidence, thrice is enemy action;

    http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/lilia-luciano-fired-misleading-edit_b125484

    narciso (8d0f34)

  93. Alex is in the wind . . .

    Icy (3c69fd)

  94. Whether it’s Zimmerman or hate crimes, if it’s about race there is a feverish little pack on here that just can’t stop themselves from endlessly blathering. Almost 100 comments, most of them vapid and emotional, while the more relevant Zombie Journalism has 15. Y’all gotta get over your race fetish! That is all.

    Alex (fa4fca)

  95. Must never rest while
    Reverand Al the racists’
    pal still on duty

    elissa (9c3981)

  96. Alex, we didn’t make the Zimmerman case about race. The left wing Democrats who saw it as a chance to attack ALEC and the actual race pimps that you defend did.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  97. that’s the law. I think you don’t understand hate crime law.
    Comment by Alex — 5/2/2012 @ 9:59 am

    – Alex, please show us where, in ANY jurisdiction in the USA, the hate crimes law specifies only ‘protected classes’. GO!

    Icy (3c69fd)

  98. Alex’s projection is so cute.

    JD (2585aa)

  99. I’m too verklempt over the fate of HOA’s because of the Martin/Zimmerman incident to comment on the Zombie thread.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  100. ________________________________________

    The answer from African-American callers is that they are worse

    It’s ideology far more than race per se — or real or imagined experiences involving race and racism — that influences the mindset of so many people in black America. Leftist sentiment destroys common sense, twists and flips what’s good and bad, and makes scapegoating very appealing.

    If a magic wand could be waved over the 90-plus percent of the black community that leans left so that it instead became 90-plus percent moderate to conservative, it would be like people in a long, deep slumber finally awakening. Awakening and peering at the world around them, looking in the mirror, and becoming shocked at how nonsensical and disingenuous they had previously been. Shocked that they had been like bratty kids forever blaming their parents, teachers and neighbors for their lot in life.

    “You mean characters along the lines of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Jeremiah Wright and America’s “first black president,” Bill Clinton, were embraced, feted or greatly tolerated by us??! You mean decades of witnessing leftwing-dominated places like Detroit, DC, southside Chicago, New York’s Harlem, Oakland and south-central LA never made us reassess liberalism?! Sheesh! Duh and d’oh to us!”

    Mark (411533)

  101. Mark are you black?

    Also I’d live to hear your examples of imagined racism.

    Thanks!

    Alex (5327a0)

  102. I think if someone is committed to being “for Obama”, then it is easy to follow the narrative that criticism of him must be based on racism, because there is “obviously nothing he’s done that should be criticized”.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  103. Alex- when people think reference to a “black hole” is racist, that is imaginary racism.

    Much more common is the thought that to criticize Obama is to be racist, as I mentioned above.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  104. Alex – Have you read Blacklash yet?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  105. _____________________________________________

    Mark are you black?

    Alex, you need to spend more time wondering not about a person’s race or ethnicity but about his or her political bent. In particular, you need to ask yourself if liberal biases make a person truly humane, generous, tolerant and honest.

    Then keep in mind that surveys and studies of liberals compared with conservatives reveal that — in terms of percentages — the stereotype of a liberal being so humane, generous, tolerant (or non-racist) and wonderful is, surprisingly enough, a bunch of BS, and, if anything, are traits that apply more closely to a conservative.

    Mark (411533)

  106. Mark, thanks for all that unsolicited info. Now, would you kindly answer my questions?

    Alex (0b7096)

  107. if colonel had dog
    he would look just like teh dog
    that 0bama ate

    sorry… I just like that one.

    Colonel Haiku (d62f1b)

  108. Alex, please show us where, in ANY jurisdiction in the USA, the hate crimes law specifies only ‘protected classes’.

    Now, would you kindly answer my question?

    Icy (3c69fd)

  109. 37: so mark, you are saying if the victim was black and the offender white it would be a big story? Because there are about 3000 hate crimes a year against blacks

    Of your allegedly accurate numbers, how many involved 2 black teens being beaten by an angry mob of white teens?

    Would you please answer my question?

    JD (a1a3bf)

  110. 109: all
    110: I have no idea

    Mark?

    Alex (0b7096)

  111. Actually, JD, “…I have no idea…” is quite perfect for this kind of trollery. Sort of like “I work here is done.”

    Simon Jester (fd3d30)

  112. 109: all
    110: I have no idea

    So all of your yammering, as usual, has been meaningless, uninformed, and wrong. SHOCKA

    JD (a1a3bf)

  113. All?! Really?! Daleyrocks quoted one for you that directly refutes your ASSertion.

    JD (a1a3bf)

  114. Do they all have to go full ‘Otto’ JD,

    narciso (8d0f34)

  115. Alex, you are making up crap. And not for the first time.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  116. Shorter Alex – Pat Attention to MEEEEeeeeeee!!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  117. Okay, Alex. Let’s go over this one more time:
    my understanding of hate crime law is that (for example) targeting an Asian for robbery because you think they carry cash is not a hate crime. Rather you have to be targeting a protected class (Asian in this case) because you either have particular anger toward Asians, and/or intend to intimidate Asians for some reason (drive them out of your neighborhood).
    Comment by Alex — 5/2/2012 @ 9:41 am

    Alex – You believe a hate crime can only be committed against someone in a protected class? Interesting.
    Comment by daleyrocks — 5/2/2012 @ 9:57 am

    that’s the law. I think you don’t understand hate crime law.
    Comment by Alex — 5/2/2012 @ 9:59 am

    – So, once again, I ask you to cite sources (and I’m thinking that the text of pretty near EVERY hate crimes law in the country is available online) showing how ANY of these laws specify that it’s a hate crime only if the victim is a member of a ‘protected class’.

    Instead of merely saying “all” without any proof whatsoever to back up your assertion, I challenge you to show your work.

    GO!!!

    Icy (3c69fd)

  118. Shorter Alex – Pat Pay Attention to MEEEEeeeeeee!!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  119. Colonel Haiku,

    That’s a really good one. I caught it the first time you played it, but it’s definitely worth repeating.

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  120. Alex, just why do you feel a need to write such nonsense?

    SPQR (6e5b05)

  121. Mark, at 101: what’s your beef with Harlem?

    aphrael (25c3ae)

  122. #120… thanks, elephant stone! two shows nightly!

    Colonel Haiku (e69dde)

  123. Oy! He’s scarpered off again.

    Godspeed, Alex.

    Icy (3c69fd)

  124. Mark… setting race aside completely, you do realize that all those people you’re talking about make their own decisions about who they support politically and why, right? So you realize that you’re basically saying that they’re a bunch of children who don’t know what’s best for them, and shouldn’t be trusted to make their own decisions?

    You don’t know what f*ck you’re talking about.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  125. Well it seems the decision are based less on concrete facts and more on feelings, which leads
    to very noxious policy consequences, Mark often
    extrapolates maybe to an extreme degree, based on European and South American examples.

    narciso (8d0f34)

  126. _____________________________________________

    Mark, at 101: what’s your beef with Harlem?

    Yep, you’ve got me, aphrael. I don’t know anyone who isn’t impressed by that area’s great schools, great business climate, sensible politics, and very low crime rates. Why it has remained predominantly black for so many decades should be quite puzzling to most people, particularly the innumerable left-leaning whites who — for some reason — rarely tell their real-estate agents to find them a place to live around there.

    So you realize that you’re basically saying that they’re a bunch of children who don’t know what’s best for them, and shouldn’t be trusted to make their own decisions?

    Just as long as they don’t fall for the notion that their idiotic liberalism imbues them with great humane, compassionate, generous, tolerant qualities, they can be as leftwing as they want. Beyond that, if they like using their leftist instincts as propaganda to make outsiders feel sorry for them, should they be surprised when various people — at least those who aren’t naifs and suckers — start rolling their eyes and giving a big guffaw?

    Should a community full of monolithic liberalism be surprised when anyone with more than an ounce of common sense feels leery dealing with such a place, particularly when so much of that community’s populace grapples with far too much socio-economic dysfunction, year after year, decade after decade?

    Mark (411533)

  127. I’m actually more vested in the second half of my comment than the first. Just for the record.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  128. So mark? No answer? I will consider a group fail…

    Alex (937436)

  129. _________________________________________

    I’m actually more vested in the second half of my comment than the first.

    Leviticus, just read the following, look in the mirror, and then ask yourself “does this phrase apply to me? Does this apply to far too many people I hang out with, feel sympathy for, or admire?”

    Also, keep in mind that one does not have to be both wealthy and liberal to be two-faced and phony, and to be no nicer, no more humane, no more generous, no more tolerant than anyone else, rightwing or otherwise.

    wikipedia.org:

    Limousine liberal is a pejorative American political term used to illustrate perceived hypocrisy by a political liberal of upper class or upper middle class status; including calls for the use of mass transit while frequently using limousines or private jets, claiming environmental consciousness but driving low MPG sports cars or SUVs, or ostensibly supporting public education while actually sending their children to private schools.

    In the 1970s, the term was applied to wealthy liberal supporters of open-housing and forced school busing who didn’t make use of public schooling. In Boston, Massachusetts, supporters of busing, such as Senator Ted Kennedy, sent their children to private schools or lived in affluent suburbs. To some South Boston residents, Kennedy’s support of a plan that “integrated” their children with blacks and his apparent unwillingness to do the same with his own children, was hypocrisy.

    In 2009, the term was applied by many commentators to former Senate Majority Leader and then-Obama cabinet appointee Tom Daschle for failing to pay back taxes and interest on the use of a limousine service. The term has often been applied to documentary filmmaker Michael Moore over the years by both critics on the left and right due to his habit of traveling around New York City in a limousine.

    Al Gore is often called a Limousine Liberal for his use of private jet planes and SUVs, while giving speeches telling Americans must cut back on their lifestyles. In the May 16, 2007 edition of TIME magazine, it was reported that “His (Gore’s) Tennessee mansion consumes 20 times the electricity used by the average American home.” On October 30, 2010, under the headline A VERY inconvenient truth, the UK Telegraph reported that “Al Gore ‘left car engine running during hour-long environment lecture”.

    Mark (411533)

  130. Mark?

    Alex (937436)

  131. My simple questions Mark?

    Alex (937436)

  132. Reminding:

    Mark are you black?

    Also I’d live to hear your examples of imagined racism.

    Thanks!

    Alex (937436)

  133. Mark? You were just here…, mark?

    Alex (937436)

  134. ______________________________________

    So mark? No answer?

    No, Alex, I’m not black, I’m not a registered Democrat, I’m not leftwing, and I certainly don’t think liberals (or conservatives, or centrists) are automatically more humane, compassionate, generous, loving, tolerant and sophisticated than anyone else.

    Mark (411533)

  135. Also I’d live to hear your examples of imagined racism.

    Thanks!

    Alex (937436)

  136. Really mark? You aren’t black? I can’t believe that, you
    Must be a mind reader then!!!! Wow

    Alex (937436)

  137. ______________________________________________

    Also I’d live to hear your examples of imagined racism.

    All the fools and dopes (Hi, Barack!) who thought George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin because Martin was….black. All the fools and dopes (Hi, Barack!) who thought Henry Louis Gates Jr was confronted by a police officer in Cambridge, Massachusetts because Gates is…black.

    BTW, in such instances, invariably and with few exceptions, most of the fools and dopes have one thing in common. They’re all of the…left.

    Mark (411533)

  138. So two examples out of thousands (or millions) do it for u?

    Alex (937436)

  139. Why did zim murder the kid mark?

    Alex (937436)

  140. Mark? Sorry to be pushy, but going to bed..,

    Alex (937436)

  141. No ? Mark?

    Alex (937436)

  142. ??? Ok u fail? Accepted. Night!

    Alex (937436)

  143. Yep, Alex, you’ve shown yourself to be nuttier than a squirrel’s sphincter.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  144. No quality comments with logic?

    Alex (937436)

  145. Come on alinaky bots, do better!!!

    Alex (937436)

  146. “No quality comments with logic?”

    Alex – You first.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  147. Is it drugs, alchohol, caffeine or inbreeding?

    elissa (676e2e)

  148. Thats your best? Sad. Good night!

    Alex (937436)

  149. Alinsky all over this faux area!!!

    Alex (937436)

  150. Why don’t you answer my question, Alex? Please cite ANY hate crime law on the books in ANY state that limits the definition of said hate crime to acts committed against a member of a “protected class”.

    Go ahead, come up with one — even one.

    Icy (486a22)

  151. Mark – I live on the border of Harlem; I pass through Harlem basically every day. We live where we live because it’s campus housing (my husband is in grad school), but when we contemplated moving, we rejected Harlem as an option because the areas of Harlem close enough to a subway line _were too expensive_.

    Harlem is still predominantly black, it’s true, but given the cost of rental in the area, it’s got to be either predominantly the black middle class or every apartment has to be packed to the gills, illegal-immigrant style.

    During my walk to the subway in the morning, the overwhelming majority of people on the street are well behaved school children, many of them being walked to school by their parents.

    I think you’re operating based on a stereotype of a Harlem-of-the-past rather than the Harlem that’s actually there today.

    aphrael (25c3ae)

  152. Icy and Mark, you may be right the way hate crime laws are applied, but the way it was sold, it was to protect a n***** from having a cross burned on his lawn, and a f***** from being bashed. I don’t agree with them, a person is a person, and you look at the harm to him, not the reason. Political tool.

    nk (875f57)

  153. Motive has not been an element in criminal cases, to be proven by the State, until this. The question has always been, “Did he hurt a person, intentionally, knowingly, wilfully, wontonly, recklessly.”

    nk (875f57)

  154. Alex went a little crazy, huh?

    JD (3e80ca)

  155. Just a touch, JD.

    narciso (8d0f34)

  156. If you aren’t black, Alex thinks you are posing as a mind reader if you express certain opinions. Alex thinks your race determines that trait.

    If you aren’t black and defend yourself, Alex draws the harshest conclusion, dismissing all the witnesses and evidence, and concludes murder without any basis. If you disagree, he strangely applies a “were you there?” test he doesn’t apply to himself.

    And that explains his reaction to this post’s discussion of racism.

    Alex is both a troll and a racist.

    Dustin (330eed)

  157. And a liar.

    JD (3e80ca)

  158. _____________________________________________

    I think you’re operating based on a stereotype of a Harlem-of-the-past

    aphrael, I recall a long time ago thinking that the leftism that roils black America would start to moderate, if not become rather conservative, decades after the civil-right era of the 1960s, and well after the era of Jim Crow (or the early 1900s). I thought both cultural, social and political mainstreaming — much less the reality of someone like Obama becoming president — would greatly chip away at the blind liberalism that is evident in a high percentage of the black community.

    I thought that decades of witnessing (or experiencing) the failures of areas like Detroit, St Louis, Oakland, south LA, southside Chicago, DC and other predominantly black neighborhoods throughout the US — all dominated by liberal voting habits — would shake the confidence of many blacks towards dyed-in-the-wool liberalism and pro-Democrat-Party sentiment.

    Sadly — and most disappointingly — I was wrong.

    Alex is both a troll and a racist.

    I’d say he’s just a typical liberal, so there’s not a whole lot of maturity and logic in that brain of his. I find myself not bothered by such people if they’re still rather young. But when I see folks well past their college years, or certainly in their late 30s or 40s, still spouting off the nonsense of left-leaning biases and preferences, I can’t help but shake my head and wonder if the part of their brain that influences common sense is defective or non-existent.

    I observe major figures of the left who are as old as a Warren Buffet or Michael Bloomberg — people who are otherwise very successful and certainly very savvy from a purely financial standpoint — and I theorize that their ideology has to be rooted in genetics. IOW, decades of basic observation and experience haven’t done a damn thing to modify the biases of such liberals, so their leftism must be an innate aspect of their mind.

    Mark (411533)

  159. Dustin @159 – Nice Summary

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  160. Mark’s refusal to answer taken as he admits answering would make him look foolish. Thus he avoids. Comments about me being a liberal: amusing, stupid.

    Alex (937436)

  161. Stop the personal attacks and non sequitur spews and answer the question: cite ONE hate crime law in the US that specifies “protected class” as the criteria for being charged under said law.

    Icy (486a22)

  162. Alex – No quality comments with logic? Still waiting.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  163. Nah, I want marks answer first. You guys kinda bore me. I’ll indulge you later, should mark reply.

    Alex (937436)

  164. Icy – All, and I don’t know are the best he has to offer.

    JD (d3eecb)

  165. Larry Sabato has some thoughts on Princess Lie-a watha Warren and her racist comments. But somebody will prolly need to explain this to Alex because apparently he thinks racism is only about teh blacks. From the Boston Herald:

    Some national political experts had much stronger words for Warren’s conflicting explanations about why she listed herself as a minority in university directories.

    “This takes her biography into a bizarre dimension,” said Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics. “It has derailed the effort to define Warren in a voter-friendly way.”

    Sabato also said that Warren’s claim that she didn’t list herself as a minority to gain an employment advantage is not believable.

    “This is what happens when candidates don’t tell the truth,” he said. “It’s pretty obvious she was using (the minority listing) for career advancement.”

    After first saying she didn’t know anything about reports that Harvard Law had listed her as a minority, Warren’s campaign then said she was “proud” of her Native American heritage, citing records showing she was 1⁄32nd Cherokee.

    Warren then recounted how a relative had told her that her Native American heritage was why her grandfather had “high cheekbones like all of the Indians do” — a response that critics have pounced on as perpetuating Native American stereotypes.

    “That’s kind of racism,” Sabato said.

    Heh.

    elissa (0dbe1e)

  166. It’s got nothing to do with politics. I’ve seen bigots on both sides of the aisle just on this single blog, but also throughout my life.

    I think a lot of this has to do with compensating for inadequacy. Find some bigoted reason why you’re better than that group of people who are fair game for whatever nonsense Alex or whomever wants to spread around.

    It’s not worth my time.

    Dustin (330eed)

  167. Hey, guys? everyone’s saying it, but take it to heart: Alex is a troll. Don’t feed him.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  168. You won’t find a more straightforward self-identification of troll-status than saying things like “you guys kinda bore me.”

    Leviticus (870be5)

  169. Icy – All, and I don’t know are the best he has to offer.
    Comment by JD — 5/4/2012 @ 9:03 am

    – Well, there’s also “No, mom; I’ll clean out the basement and go get a job tomorrow!”

    Icy (486a22)

  170. 170: its statements like 172 that bore. This kid demands I answer his questions again and again while he simultaneously insults me and cracks wise. I tire of that.

    Alex (937436)

  171. Icy is just pointing out that you are a clumsy ignorant lying liar, Alex.

    JD (d3eecb)

  172. Stop talking to it.

    Leviticus (870be5)

  173. Sorry. For a minute there I thought that it really wanted to engage in a back-and-forth discussion. Silly me.

    Let the record show, then, that Alex’s assertion that hate crime laws only apply when the victim is a member of a “protected class” is NOT TRUE. If Alex wanted to prove otherwise, he would’ve done so by now.

    Icy (486a22)

  174. 176: Let the record show that I will indulge the insulting Icy, once Mark answers me. Until then I will not being answering any more taunts. Sorry.

    Alex (c76e4d)

  175. So Alex, you thought there was some remaining tatters of your reputation you wanted to beat to death?

    There wasn’t.

    SPQR (26be8b)


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