Patterico's Pontifications

4/15/2012

Charles Johnson: An Unlikely Crusader Against Racist Comments

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 2:21 pm

Charles Johnson has been on a little jihad about racist comments on conservative sites — which is odd for several reasons. Notably, he has no evidence that the comments were left by conservatives, and indeed he used to complain that liberals had planted phony comments on his own site:

One type of troll we see all the time at LGF is known as a “moby,” after the pop star Moby—who publicly advocated posting “false flag” comments at right wing web sites, posing as extremist nut jobs, in order to discredit those sites.

Johnson complained about this practice again here:

But the important thing to note here is: this creep was what we call a “moby,” calculatedly posting over the top comments to discredit LGF. In truth, as you can see by following the link to the “Anti-Neocons” site above, this stalker is rabidly pro-Palestinian—but it was posting rabidly anti-Palestinian comments at LGF. This is solid proof that at least some of the comments at LGF are being planted with deliberate intent to deceive and defraud.

That was then; this is now. These days, Charles Johnson trolls sites like Hot Air and Breitbart.com, and trumpets every single comment with racist overtones as evidence of the racism of conservatives in general, and those sites in particular.

Indeed, one of Johnson’s buddies (with whom he is still friendly) actually admitted planting racist comments at Hot Air in 2009. Specifically, in September 2009, trusted LGF Lieutenant Killgore Trout went over to Hot Air in the middle of the night to plant some racist comments. Ace described what happened:

Apparently CJ’s moderator Kilgore Trout went over there last night and started posting racist stuff. To see, he said, if it would be cleaned up.

It wasn’t. Because both Allah and Ed were asleep. It being the middle of the night.

Actually, it’s only arguably racist if you yourself believe that wookies = black people, which Kilgore Trout does.

So he spammed the threads with this, and it wasn’t cleaned up to until the AM.

Obergruppenkommander Charles’ conclusion? They’re racists.

Chuckles furiously denounced Killgore Trout for his actions said “I can’t really applaud” Killgore Trout’s actions . . . but claimed that Killgore Trout’s middle-of-the-night actions showed that “his point is absolutely valid. They’re accepting a disgusting amount of racism and extremism at Hot Air.” This despite the fact that within an hour of Johnson’s comment, the comments at Hot Air were starting to disappear, as Killgore Trout (who is apparently still a welcome and valued member of LGF) reported at the time.

In essence, Chuckles’s lieutenant said: look, the conservatives tolerate people pissing on their houses. To demonstrate, I will go piss on their house in the middle of the night, and if they don’t clean it up until morning, I have made my point! Bwa-ha! To which Charles responded: I can’t really applaud him pissing on their house . . . but they sure do seem to tolerate it.

I guess Charles, former moby hunter, now believes that Killgore Trout was the only liberal guy who ever planted racist comments on conservative sites.

The funny part about Charles being Mr. Racist Comment Nazi is that his site used to be the home of perhaps the most notoriously virulent, ugly, hate-filled set of comments in the blogosphere. For example, here is a piece by Glenn Greenwald documenting several comments by LGF commenters talking about how they wished that Al Qaeda would carry out a planned murder plot against Jimmy Carter.

I always defended Charles on this point, because the volume of comments he had was such that it would be unfair to attribute to him the viewpoints of his commenters. Indeed, Charles made the very same point in response to complaints by CAIR that his site was a hate site:

If either of you had bothered to do your jobs, you would have learned that:

* There are more than 25,000 registered users at LGF.

* There are often more than 5,000 comments posted every single day.

* It is run by *one* person, and comments such as those quoted by CAIR are policed and deleted as soon as possible. But this is an open discussion forum, and comments do not represent the opinion of LGF — as the disclaimer states on every single page of comments.

But Hot Air easily has 25,000 registered users and probably has well over 3 million comments since its founding. I bet I am underestimating this. Yet Charles supported his lieutenant’s argument that comments planted there in the middle of the night demonstrated racism because they were not cleaned up until the next morning.

All of this would seemingly make Charles Johnson the least likely person on Earth to lead a charge about comments on conservative web sites.

So I decided to confront him with this recently on Twitter. I laid out six simple facts that underpin the argument I made above:

Since Johnson really has no response to these arguments, I predicted that he wouldn’t confront my facts, but would smear and sneer.

And what do you think he did?

Again: he didn’t disappoint:

Hm. Does Charles Johnson know that the guy on Twitter famous for using the #winning tag was actually a huge loser whom everyone was laughing at?

Anyone misguided enough to see Johnson as a serious pundit who engages in rational debate needs to stop sniffing glue and read the above exchange. Note the facts I cite, and the sneers, strawmen, and insults I get in response.

It really makes you wonder how this guy has any credibility with anyone these days.

UPDATE: Thanks to Instapundit for the link. I hope new readers will bookmark the main page and return often. Also, I can be found on Twitter as @Patterico. Make sure to follow me there!

344 Responses to “Charles Johnson: An Unlikely Crusader Against Racist Comments”

  1. Do you think CJ feeds on the attention? Like its his oxygen? I mean, if he has had to deal with planted comments on his own site, is on record discussing it, and then claims it never happens to smear someone he doesnt like….well….

    Simon Jester (8b9fa1)

  2. Lizardoid in a NUTshell…

    “Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important.” ~Thomas Sowell

    BillyBB (fc47e8)

  3. You are being mean to Charles. Not smart, because he can boot you off the internet. If you don’t watch it your next blogpost will be something you typed on an Underwood stapled to a lamp post.

    beed (14a494)

  4. CJ and Excitable Andy, similar in so many ways; both deserve to be pitied and ignored.

    Old Coot (4f117a)

  5. Patterico (feda6b)

  6. I wonder why he feels it necessary to mention my job title and real name.

    (Actually, I don’t wonder that at all. That was rhetorical. He hopes I will be reported to my supervisors for writing a blog post that is critical of him. There is no other conceivable reason.)

    Patterico (feda6b)

  7. Chunky Cheeto no longer has 25000 registered users anymore. He’s banned over 15k since then. His overnight threads are lucky to get 50 comments now when they used to get 1000+ every night.

    Anonymous (4251ee)

  8. You may think he’s doing PR for you, but that is not the case. He is rounding up his peeps. Prepare for the attack of the mighty Lizard Army!

    beed (14a494)

  9. Charles says the claims are false?

    The claims are all accurate, though. Charles indeed complained about planted comments by mobies. His denial of the validity of his own argument is just bizarre.

    I never understood his 180. A lot of people change their minds. I don’t think a lot of people suddenly find their own arguments to be completely ridiculous.

    Dustin (330eed)

  10. Patterico, this was just too easy, no? This person consistently ends up eating his own words (ironically, without even ever understanding that), and diminishing whatever reputation was left.

    Personally, I think irrelevancy is the sign when one should stop the noise and move on with their lives. It doesn’t get much clearer than that.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  11. Deputy District Attorney my ass. Only jazz musicians should be allowed to blog.

    beed (14a494)

  12. Why is it only KKKilgore Trout, Twitterati “Silvio Breckman” and Jazzy Ponytail are the only ones who can seek out & find all of the racist comments posted on every single conservative blog on the internet when no one else can? Not only that but find them within mere minutes after they are posted?

    One might almost get the impression it’s because they’re planting theme there.

    Anonymous (4251ee)

  13. Charles will get you for this. You just wait. He’ll find some really nasty links and then post them. Death by index finger we call it.

    beed (14a494)

  14. I think it depends what the definition of racist is. I like people of all races, including mixed raced folks like me. I’ve had deep romantic relationships with people who had various races, and the person I loved the most definitely had partly African ancestry, among others. I don’t have “token” black friends. But I certainly have one black friend who I have deep feelings for. And people of other races too obviously, even (gasp!) of Finnish ancestry, as blonde and blue-eyed as you’re ever going to find. And so on.

    However, I’m really committed to truth and science, not to political correctness. I was raised both by my father (who, by the way, had an awesome young black friend who frequently looked after me and my sister growing up — took some time to figure out how he “came to be” my uncle ; ), who is still a good family friend to this day. A wonderful guy. As an interesting aside, my dad met him at a reform school where my dad worked. He made two lifelong friends this way, one black, one white, and both appear to be non-criminals. I like the black one a lot more, but whatever.

    But even if I’d never known a person of any other race or wasn’t personally mixed race (Caucasian, Native Indian), reality exists independents of my preferences of what it should be.

    While I was long rabidly against any kind of racism, as it deeply offended me both because of my upbringing, schooling, mixed-race identity, and especially because the people I loved most in the world were often some other race, at some point I took a look at the scientific evidence.

    Well guess what? There are significant biological differences between racial populations other than merely cosmetic ones.

    I did not like this realization, but being an honest, objective, scientifically-minded sort (or aspiring to be same), that is the conclusion I’ve reached. More study has reinforced, not undermined, this conclusion.

    So I do believe there are underlying genetic (which influence culture, incidentally) differences between human populations. Indeed, it would be surprising if there weren’t in light of natural selection and adaption to niches and simple genetic drift. Further, Neanderthals evolved in Asia and Europe, and not every population interbred with them, we now learn from DNA-science. Sub-Saharan Africans didn’t (they contain more genes, however, that are related to a near-relative of Homo habilis).

    It wouldn’t make sense that us — a species that depends on its fast-evolving complex hominid brain — who occupy the cognitive niche on our planet would change a lot physically (including in terms of percentages of hormones, which totally influence behavior), would have changed physiologically and morphologically, but not at all in the one organ we most use to survive, our brains.

    And the evidence is very strongly that did change and adapt to different niches over tens of thousands of years of geographic separation, and there are a variety of behaviors and cognitive abilities that differ among populations.

    I didn’t wish that to be so. But it is anyway. Nature doesn’t give a damn what I wish, obviously — in this and other areas.

    But I don’t get offended by human diversity, or the fact that my genetic ancestors didn’t have the absolute highest average IQ (or g — general intelligence factor), or even that being partly coastal native, and thus having ancestors that hadn’t drank alcohol or ate wheat for thousands of years, probably made me somewhat more susceptible to alcoholism, diabetes, or obesity. It’s all very interesting really. If you like science, understanding what’s happening is fascinating. Maybe scary and disturbing, but fascinating too.

    Like it or not, natural selection has no mechanism for “equal”. Nature doesn’t do equal. It isn’t in the slightest concerned about it.

    Nature does “different”.

    Hominids haven’t been immune to this (Charles Johnson knows this well) and Homo sapiens sapiens haven’t been either (something he — and many of you — will largely deny, because of biases, including the strong cultural taboo on the subject of race).

    I don’t believe “recognizing human biodiversity” and “loving people from all races” = racism as it is commonly understood, but if it does according to your definition, then I guess you must consider me a racist.

    Random (fba0b1)

  15. I want to address a single point that you chose to make for some reason.

    You’re intentionally misstating the facts regarding Killgore’s raid.

    What he did was post comments like these ones:

    “Where are the moderators? How good is the paycheck to run a blog that allows openly racist comments about wookies and N*ggers?
    Man this wookie stuff is hilarious and hilarious!
    /Give me a job monitoring the blog where blacks are called wookies, it sounds like big fun!

    Killgore Trout on September 18, 2009 at 1:33 AM

    Wookies iz n*ggers!
    /Brilliant political commentary

    Killgore Trout on September 18, 2009 at 1:35 AM”

    The comments were self-refuting, in the sense that anyone who would read them would not be under impression that they had been posted by a conservative. Thus they cannot be said to have been planted. They were openly posted, they contained the open declaration of intent and they weren’t impersonating anyone.

    Now, you could try to argue a dumb semantic point about whether or not this still constitutes planting, but the problem is that even if it did in some very specific sense, it would not be the planting that you need in order to illustrate an alleged liberal practice. Even if you stubbornly insist on calling this action “planting comments”, it would still not be the same action as your scenario of liberal planting comments at sites like Breitbart.com would necessitate.

    All of the above is pretty obvious, so you’re looking like a fool writing this illogical stuff.

    [Pretty funny stuff from someone using an anonymizer. --Stashiu]

    Schmoby (b0de3e)

  16. In my second paragraph, I got off track and didn’t finish my thought. It is that I was raised both by my father and school to abhor racism and believe all races are biologically equal in every important sense.

    Random (fba0b1)

  17. Kilgore Trout’s midnight ride made a lot of people who’d been quietly waiting out Charles’ latest fit of late summer pissiness out head for the exit. It’s irreparably damaged KT’s reputation; he’s no longer cantankerous, contrary, stubborn and difficult. He’s untrustworthy, and no one can quite take his opinions as honest, after that.

    It also contributed to the wreck of LGF in no small measure.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  18. I trust nobody that switches from left to right or vice versa.
    It demonstrates opportunism and a lack of core principles.
    CJ, you are negligible noise.

    PacRim Jim (66ecaa)

  19. I don’t always plant racist comments on conservative blogs, but when I do I drink Dos Equis.

    Stay racist my friends.

    Charles Johnson, The Worlds Most Interesting Race Detective (4251ee)

  20. Now, you could try to argue a dumb semantic point about whether or not this still constitutes planting, but the problem is that even if it did in some very specific sense, it would not be the planting that you need in order to illustrate an alleged liberal practice. Even if you stubbornly insist on calling this action “planting comments”, it would still not be the same action as your scenario of liberal planting comments at sites like Breitbart.com would necessitate.

    It was done in the middle of the night, correct?

    If Killgore Trout would put up comments that don’t reflect his true views, do you figure that anyone else might do that?

    Do you figure that Charles Johnson’s site is the only one that ever had mobies?

    Do you have any evidence that the comments being cited by Johnson as evidence of conservative racism were actually left by conservatives?

    Do you think that Charles has tried to confront any of the six facts I listed in the post?

    Do you think those facts, if true, have any relevance to his jihad against conservative racist comments?

    A few questions for you to ignore.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  21. mister charles johnson
    is the Ian Anderson
    of teh skin flutists

    Colonel Haiku (b91955)

  22. I use the word “plant” because that’s the word Charles used when mobies were on his site.

    And Schmoby, thanks for giving the times for those comments. It confirms Ace’s description that this was done in the middle of the night. Which, why do you figure that is?

    Patterico (feda6b)

  23. “It was done in the middle of the night, correct?”

    Correct. So? How does it matter?

    I’m not defending the action, which was extremely dumb and proved almost nothing (though I read that after that night moderation was much stricter at HA). But it’s deceptive to give it as an example of “liberal planting” in the context of claiming that comments at Fox News, Breitbart and other sites may have been planted by liberals.

    Were they planted in the way Killgore “planted” comments, most of them would contain disclaimers that these are not real comments written by real conservatives. So it would be spamming at worst and there would have been no issue over which to argue.

    You’re free to stress your other points. I don’t think reasonable people will find them plausible (yeah, sure, all those thousands of racist comments were planted, aha), but whatever.

    However your argument about Killgore is deceptive.

    Schmoby (4449cc)

  24. can’t be too careful!
    could be imposter wearing
    troutmask replica

    Colonel Haiku (b91955)

  25. Which, why do you figure that is?

    Comment by Patterico — 4/15/2012 @ 3:15 pm

    My own gloomy conclusion, the next morning when I read about it? KT was insomniac and drunk.

    It was the stupidest thing anyone could have done, and all it proved was the people have to sleep.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  26. Facts are to true believers what roses are to flies.

    The False God (3c3f6e)

  27. You’re intentionally misstating the facts regarding Killgore’s raid.

    I had only heard those comments described before; my evidence was Ace’s post. Yet you claim to know I “intentionally” misstated the facts — as if you knew I had seen the comments (I hadn’t) and chose to “lie” about them.

    I guess this is typical Internet bluster: every alleged misstatement must necessarily be an “intentional” misstatement because, the Internet.

    Can we see the rest of the comments rather than just the ones you cherry-picked? You seem to have them…

    Patterico (feda6b)

  28. Years ago, I posted on LGF that illegal drug users in this country should should stop supporting the Mexican drug lords in order to help the poor people in Mexico. You can imagine the kind of abuse I got from the commenters on his site. To his credit, Charles didn’t ban me, but I haven’t been back since.

    tyree (84087f)

  29. “I use the word “plant” because that’s the word Charles used when mobies were on his site.”

    But alleged mobies pretend to be conservatives. Killgore did not. That’s why however you call his action, it was not the planting that you need to prove your point. Killgore was not a moby.

    Schmoby (4449cc)

  30. The pathology of Charles Johnson would make an interesting addition to the DSM. Nuttiness, stubborn adherence to brazen lies, combined with a maliciousness that is unmatched.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  31. Were they planted in the way Killgore “planted” comments, most of them would contain disclaimers that these are not real comments written by real conservatives. So it would be spamming at worst and there would have been no issue over which to argue.

    You’re free to stress your other points. I don’t think reasonable people will find them plausible (yeah, sure, all those thousands of racist comments were planted, aha), but whatever.

    You sound kind of like Charles. Where did I say “all those thousands of racist comments were planted”? Why, in the post, I do believe I had a tweet that actually stated the opposite.

    Mr. Honesty, would you care to admit you just misstated my argument? Even though the evidence is right in your face, I’ll be a nice guy and not insist you did so “intentionally.”

    As for whether all Killgore’s comments fit your description, I’m afraid I can’t take the word of a guy who just misstated something. Can you provide us ALL Killgore’s comments from that night?

    Patterico (feda6b)

  32. Mmm… trouble proving the authorship of something written on the internet.

    Its a funny thing because just last wednesday a certain domestic terrorist, document forger and perjurer had a little trouble with that issue too.

    which is off topic, but…

    Aaron Worthing (73a7ea)

  33. “I had only heard those comments described before; my evidence was Ace’s post.”

    Do you understand how pathetic that is? You based your key example on someone’s description.

    “Can we see the rest of the comments rather than just the ones you cherry-picked? You seem to have them…”

    Copies are available in several places, you can find them by googling the excerpts.

    Schmoby (e546cc)

  34. Schmoby is funny

    JD (516dcc)

  35. Then again, maybe the “#winning” hashtag is the clue we need as to the source of Charles Johnson’s behavior?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  36. Patterico, it WAS done in the middle of the night, I was reading LGF in real time when that stunt occured. I work the night shift and get home at 12:45am CST and I spun up the computer at about 1:00am. The stunt took place 20-30 minutes after that. And Ace is correct, Killgore did it when he knew the site was not being supervised. Killgore also recently admitted he was drunk when he did it, for whatever it’s worth.

    MrPaulRevere (0442fd)

  37. Have a little respect people, The most honorable Charles Johnson Esq. III just celebrated a birthday Friday.

    He’s too busy still trying to blow out all of the the candles on his birthday cake to answer your slanderous charges.

    asswhistle (4251ee)

  38. MrPaulRevere,

    Do you have that link to the admission he was drunk?

    If he was, he was surely the ONLY leftist who ever put comments on a conservative site that didn’t reflect his true views while drinking.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  39. I get called racist a lot, including by conservatives, for saying that, yes, there are actual biological differences between human populations, here’s the evidence for it, here’s the theoretical basis by which it probably happened, and, by the way, how could this sort of divergence not have happened?

    I think we need less taboos and should be able to discuss the topic honestly. Liberals and progressives are now asking themselves what the policy implications are, or should be, in light of the increasing evidence of the reality of human-population diversity. It does have important policy and moral implications for such policies as affirmative action among others.

    Random (fba0b1)

  40. Who is this Charles Johnson and why does anybody care?

    greg (569fb2)

  41. http://racedetective.blogspot.com/

    Don’t forget to read the archives!

    Charles Johnson (069f69)

  42. Patterico, I’ll find his admission, gimme a few.

    MrPaulRevere (0442fd)

  43. Tyree-

    To his credit, Charles didn’t ban me, but I haven’t been back since.

    Sorry to say, you are in fact blocked.

    ChenZhen (d8d854)

  44. The author of the blog I linked to, by the way, is a friend or acquaintance of Mike Flynn, famous for the Flynn effect. Flynn strongly believes most IQ gaps between races are not based on genetics, but on environmental and cultural factors.

    Here’s a debate between Mike Flynn and Charles Murray, the conservative co-author of The Bell Curve; he is one of the most important conservative intellectual forces behind then 1990s Welfare Reform, and also on the recent education reforms proposed by Santorum in his campaign.

    Flynn’s a bright guy, but I think genetics is more important for population-group IQ gaps than he believes (so in other words, I think Murray is right: Murray thinks it’s both, but that much of it is genetically determined). Further, I think Flynn overlooks one of the main mechanisms for the effect so named after him: population density and the resulting increasing likelihood of an individual receiving intelligence-enhancing alleles, giving more opportunities for beneficial adaptions.

    Now to me this is all just interesting sciency-stuff. But I guess people in our culture feel the need to get massively offended and taboo-y about this.

    Random (fba0b1)

  45. “I had only heard those comments described before; my evidence was Ace’s post.”

    Do you understand how bad that looks, right? You based your key example on someone’s mere description.

    “Can we see the rest of the comments rather than just the ones you cherry-picked? You seem to have them…”

    Copies are available in several places, you can find them by googling the excerpts I gave above. For example: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Ol5LwSyt3gEJ:diaryofdaedalus.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/killgore-trout-2.pdf+&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShiG53Tyo2a7UJCXff-i1snomGNKxshvZiJuKkhJS3vx6Xit2-SNhD7yoBHtAOqtxFIC9Z7V-59gleEBxm-duwXVmjqHHJaij_ZoitIaGoS9PT5IvNMRXdAAwjfhZvZNy8UgUrO&sig=AHIEtbQ_n_sZ65TVewZp4JbMLSl17pxtHQ&pli=1

    “You sound kind of like Charles. Where did I say “all those thousands of racist comments were planted”? Why, in the post, I do believe I had a tweet that actually stated the opposite.”

    Oh, sure you did not spell it out so explicitly. I acknowledge that. But that’s how I interpret the point of you bringing up Killgore and insisting that there’s no proof that the bulk of these comments were left by conservatives (even though it goes against all common sense). Otherwise these points make no sense.

    But whatever, that’s a secondary issue. I’m not going to argue about this – as I said, reasonable people will see through the spin. Misstatement of facts, however, should be corrected.

    In your correction you might also mention the fact that Killgore posted this comment as he finished his raid:

    “Ok, I’ll conclude my experiment….
    Nobody’s minding the store. Hot Air, like so many other right wing blogs doesn’t care. Nobody’s minding the store. Absolutely
    nobody else chimed in and saif that they were uncomfortable with the Michelle Obama/wookie comparisons. Nobody cares and
    nobody finds this slightly unusual. This is the direction that conservatives have chosen. Good luck with your openly racist agenda.
    /I’d still like a job that pays well enough to ignore this shit.

    Killgore Trout on September 18, 2009 at 2:01 AM”

    Schmoby (d2d1a0)

  46. Who is this Charles Johnson and why does anybody care?

    Comment by greg — 4/15/2012 @ 3:30 pm

    Once upon a time, in a land far, far away, there lived a contented blogger on his own little patch, called “Little Green Footballs.” In one of those perverse accidents that happen, the blogger, Charles Johnson, became very, very popular, and his little patch grew large, noisy, and even more popular. Then, one day, Charles Johnson got angry.

    No one is sure exactly what made the once-contented blogger angry, but it must have been terrible. In his wrath, he wrecked his extensive estate, squandered his fortune of credibility with both those who worked on his estate and those who trusted his word, and reduced his extensive acres back to a smaller size.

    However, the once pleasant little patch known as LGF is bigger than when he was a contented blogger, and a fetid swamp. The miasma that emanates from the bog consists of accusations of racism and extremism.

    People care because, once upon a time, such charges would distress them.

    That’s the tale, at least as seen by a former LGF reader and member.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  47. SInce when do wookies = black people?

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  48. “I had only heard those comments described before; my evidence was Ace’s post.”

    Do you understand how bad that looks, right? You based your key example on someone’s mere description.

    “Can we see the rest of the comments rather than just the ones you cherry-picked? You seem to have them…”

    Copies are available in several places, you can find them by googling the excerpts I gave above. For example: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Ol5LwSyt3gEJ:diaryofdaedalus.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/killgore-trout-2.pdf+&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShiG53Tyo2a7UJCXff-i1snomGNKxshvZiJuKkhJS3vx6Xit2-SNhD7yoBHtAOqtxFIC9Z7V-59gleEBxm-duwXVmjqHHJaij_ZoitIaGoS9PT5IvNMRXdAAwjfhZvZNy8UgUrO&sig=AHIEtbQ_n_sZ65TVewZp4JbMLSl17pxtHQ&pli=1

    “You sound kind of like Charles. Where did I say “all those thousands of racist comments were planted”? Why, in the post, I do believe I had a tweet that actually stated the opposite.”

    Oh, sure you did not spell it out so explicitly. I acknowledge that. But that’s how I interpret the point of you bringing up Killgore and insisting that there’s no proof that the bulk of these comments were left by conservatives (even though it goes against all common sense). Otherwise these points make no sense.

    But whatever, that’s a secondary issue. I’m not going to argue about this – as I said, reasonable people will see through the spin. Misstatement of facts, however, should be corrected.

    In your correction you might also mention the fact that Killgore posted this comment as he finished his raid:

    “Ok, I’ll conclude my experiment….
    Nobody’s minding the store. Hot Air, like so many other right wing blogs doesn’t care. Nobody’s minding the store. Absolutely
    nobody else chimed in and saif that they were uncomfortable with the Michelle Obama/wookie comparisons. Nobody cares and
    nobody finds this slightly unusual. This is the direction that conservatives have chosen. Good luck with your openly racist agenda.
    /I’d still like a job that pays well enough to ignore this shit.

    Killgore Trout on September 18, 2009 at 2:01 AM”

    Schmоby (78ef99)

  49. Here is Killgores admission in its entirety with no editing whatsoever. His comment is in quotes that I added: Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 31, 2012 8:34:46am

    1
    down
    up
    report

    re: #391 Liberty Hedgehog (fka Freedom Alligator)

    It’s silly trolling too, but it’s neither racism, nor planting anything.

    “I won’t disagree with that. It still makes me cringe a bit to see the list of my comments, not so much what I wrote but that I thought it was important at the time. I was drunk and offended at the open displays of racism towards the First Lady but my little temper tantrum did nothing to stem the tide. They did change their comment policy the next day but it didn’t change the amount of hate out there a single bit. It was pointless.”

    MrPaulRevere (0442fd)

  50. Patterico-

    Killgore recently admitted he was drunk here.

    We posted the pdf of the entire episode at Hot Air a while back at DoD. (and we tossed around the idea that KT was intoxicated)

    ChenZhen (d8d854)

  51. I wish our GOP politicians were capable of laying out facts, arguments, and a cohesive narrative the way that Mr. Frey is so adept at doing.

    Charles Johnson’s transformation from anti-Jihadist to MSNBC style left wing kook is bizarre to say the least.

    Political parties aside, how does a person change from passionately fighting Jihadists and their apologists, to having zero interest in blogging about Jihadists and their apologists ? He’s like the teenage girl who lives across the street from me who liked one genre of music last month, and now she has abandoned that “scene” for an entirely different genre of music and hairstyle after meeting a cute boy she wants to impress.

    Did Charles have an epiphany that led him to recognize that Jihadists have a good contribution to make to civilization ? Does he feel that public stonings are underrated ? Or maybe there’s a cute boy he wants to impress ? We’re not talking about having a change of heart about support for the financing of a city library or parks & recreation center—rather, we’re talking about changing one’s mind about fighting barbarians.

    A few years ago, Dennis Prager wrote a polite, succinct column wondering what happened to the old Charles Johnson whom had appeared on Dennis’ show in studio a couple times when he was busy fighting Jihadists. Dennis publicly invited Johnson onto his radio program to discuss his transformation, but Charles refused to talk to Dennis about it.

    I realize there’s a good percentage of Americans who may vote for this party in this election, and that party in that election—sometimes even voting across party lines on the same long-form ballot.

    But it’s highly unusual for an actual commentator to make a 180 degree change like that—particularly moving from right to left.
    It’s more likely that someone moves from left to right (David Horowitz, Norman Podhoretz, Irving Kristol, Charles Krauthammer, David Mamet, Dennis Miller, Michael Medved, Jon Voight, and some guy named Ronald Reagan, just to name a few) after recognizing that left wing policies continue to fail in lab experiment after lab experiment.

    What’s so sad is the way that Charles avoids the battle of ideas, and instead, he engages in a jihad against personalities, particularly in his use of “guilt by association.”
    Charles wants to throw rocks, he doesn’t want to throw around ideas.

    It explains why he’s chickening out of actually responding to Patterico’s polite, civil challenges, and it explains why Charles has dodged Dennis Prager’s invitations to appear on his show.

    But here’s the dagger…if Charles Johnson believes that a particular blogger is “accountable” for some nutty or racist rants made by a random commenter, why is it that Charles Johnson does not hold Barack Obama to that same standard ?

    Barack Obama does not have nutty random commenters leaving screeds at his website under cover of darkness.
    But what Barack Obama does have is nutty random commenters for close friends, advisors, mentors, preachers, and friends. Why does Charles assert that Breitbart.com or Patterico.com or Hotair.com is responsible for what is said by “KlanDude43,” but Barack Obama is not responsible for Jeremiah Wright, Van Jones, Bill Ayres, Jeffrey Jones, Rashid Khalidi, Father Pflegler, Frank Marshall Davis, Louis Farrakhan, et al ?

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  52. SInce when do wookies = black people?

    Comment by Sarahw — 4/15/2012 @ 3:40 pm

    I found the comments pretty disgusting. Maybe not racist, but to equate her with an ugly alien because of the shape of forehead or something (and color of skin) was nasty — and so irrelevant. Plenty of things to criticize the Obamas about without stooping to that level.

    Would I ban someone for saying Michelle Obama looks like a wookie? Hell no. But I’d heavily discount anything they have to say.

    Random (fba0b1)

  53. ___________________________________________

    I never understood his 180.

    There’s the saying that a “conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.” My take is that Johnson (based on his ramblings at the time) got mugged on Sept 11, 2001. But due to his mind being inherently devoid of much common sense, he’s now analogous to — and to introduce another metaphor — an alcoholic who’s fallen off the wagon.

    Mark (411533)

  54. SInce when do wookies = black people?

    Comment by Sarahw — 4/15/2012 @ 3:40 pm

    Since someone was flat-out determined that every negative reference to either Obama was racist. No matter what it was.

    “Shall I compare thee to a summer’s day?” would produce a scream about then.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  55. I think the only thing that still matters about CJ is what a fricking posturing planting pest he is. It think whatever Kilgore was reacting to, was something he planted –

    but answer me this – if his KT’s posts were the one’s Charles was calling racist and objecting to, why didn’t HE notice the “self-refuting” part.

    I don’t know what’s wrong with Charles but he broke – and that’s ok, except he isn’t content to have a point of view, he insists on declaring what everyone else’s is.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  56. Charles Johnson is now an agitator. Whether he was paid off to change sides is an obvious and reasonable question. But he is agitating for a demogogue by using their techniques. An agitator and a demogogue have no use for reason. They only say what ever they think will inflame, arouse, agitate. Wiki demogogue for more. You waste your time responding to him. Truth and logic mean nothing to him. To him, the ends justify the means. Getting you to waste your time responding to his BS was likely his purpose all along. His job is to agitate and aggravate. Get under your skin with lies and distortions. You waste your time on him rather than doing your job. Opportunity here is for you to expose the use of agitators and their tactics, ie Alinsky rules and methods. Make a list of people who are agitators and don’t use any facts, logic or reason. Can think of lots of others on Obama’s team, such as Al Sharpton and Hillary Rosen.

    Paulreverd1776 (49b9d4)

  57. Schmoby,

    The very first comment I see at the link you provided:

    Nigger’s n’ wookies iz socialism!

    Killgore Trout on September 18, 2009 at 1:25 a.m.

    Planted comment. No “/I am just joking” qualifier. And everyone in the comments is appalled.

    He makes no point whatsoever.

    “You sound kind of like Charles. Where did I say “all those thousands of racist comments were planted”? Why, in the post, I do believe I had a tweet that actually stated the opposite.”

    Oh, sure you did not spell it out so explicitly. I acknowledge that. But that’s how I interpret the point of you bringing up Killgore and insisting that there’s no proof that the bulk of these comments were left by conservatives (even though it goes against all common sense). Otherwise these points make no sense.

    First, not only did I not “spell it out explicitly” — I specifically said I was not making that claim. My quote: “I never said thousands. I said there is no proof either way.”

    The point makes perfect sense. If we KNOW that Killgore Trout went over in the middle of the night to insert racist comments not reflecting his views to make some kind of point . . . then who’s to say other people haven’t done the same.

    You came on here trying to show I was deceptive . . . but instead you have merely shown yourself to be deceptive.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  58. Another example from your link:

    Let’s deal with the problem!
    Wookies iz niggers!

    Killgore Trout on September 18, 2009 at 1:38 a.m.

    Planted.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  59. Schmoby has issues with honesty.

    JD (516dcc)

  60. Granted, there are other comments that do show he was challenging moderators. But the point is that a) not every comment had a qualifier; b) some readers might see some offensive comments and miss the ones with the qualifiers; c) he was making a point about comment moderation in the middle of the night, which proved nothing; and d) Charles Johnson acted like he had a point, because Charles Johnson is a dishonest hack.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  61. Schmoby has issues with honesty.

    He does. He and his idol Charles Johnson both.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  62. He does. He and his idol Charles Johnson both.

    Charles Johnson has got to take the record, though, of most thin-skinned guy on the Internet.

    Random (fba0b1)

  63. Random, .

    fun with personal remarks – not my deal as a rule. (I make exceptions for things a public figure has total control over and plenty of resources to manage – like unattractive belts.)

    Insulting, however, is not the same as racist, even when the comparison is physical. Wookies are not generally thought lovely things. and I do believe Michelle Obama was called a wookie, but why would that be because she’s black and not because she is oversized shaggy with a powerful build – less feminine and more masculine -and possessing an unpleasant voice? Nobody calls Obama a wookie. That’s because he doesn’t resemble one. Nobody calls that Lando Calrysian(sp) guy a wookie.

    I have personally heard an complaining oversized shaggy woman with a powerful build called a wookie which was unfortunate but i don’t put the TV on in the afternoons anymore. That person was white as a Wal-mart noodle sale.

    It’s not that I think calling Michelle names of sci-fi creatures is an attractive habit, just that I personally can’t see how it as a racial epithet vs. a personal remark.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  64. I would not be the least bit surprised to learn that ‘Schmoby’ is in fact Killgore Trout himself. They are talking about this post at LGF, of course.

    MrPaulRevere (0442fd)

  65. I will add the link provided by Schmoby to the post so people can see the comments themselves. I believe “planted” is still accurate, given that not every comment had a disqualifier, as I have shown. But I will provide the link so people can make their own judgments.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  66. Do you understand how bad that looks, right? You based your key example on someone’s mere description.

    BS.

    Kilgore’s comments are referencing what racism? It sure sounds like it’s referencing HIS OWN comments left previous to his ‘where’s the moderator to eliminate the racism?’ He’s covering his own ass to explain that his dead of night commenting was a sting operation, and he deems the time limit for moderation to have elapsed.

    All despite LGF’s own point that comments do not reflect on the blogger or the website, Charles and Kilgore agree they do… for Hot Air. But they don’t for LGF.

    What’s up with the dishonesty?

    Dustin (330eed)

  67. Sorry, thumb typing like a Twiloite again.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  68. I would not be the least bit surprised to learn that ‘Schmoby’ is in fact Killgore Trout himself. They are talking about this post at LGF, of course.

    No! I won’t hear of it. Mr. Killgore Trout would never posts comments in anything but his own real name — which is, Charles Johnson assures us, “Killgore Trout.”

    Patterico (feda6b)

  69. The link shows that Schmoby cherry picked comments of Kilgores. Maybe he didn’t do so intentionally, but it sure looks like he didn’t quote Kilgore’s most offensive comments.

    For example:

    Black people look and act like monkeys!

    That’s not how respectable people discuss issues.

    What’s interesting is that Kilgore’s rampant use of the N word and his view that Wookies are somehow black people was refuted by so many Hot Air commenters who kept saying that he doesn’t represent them.

    So while Charles and Kilgore claimed that Hot Air tolerates Kilgore’s use of the N word, this couldn’t be farther from the truth. The community was quite critical of Kilgore’s racist comments.

    Dustin (330eed)

  70. Dustin, exactly. KT alone or in concert with others, was shilling and then complaining about the shills.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  71. ______________________________________________

    but I think genetics is more important for population-group IQ gaps than he believes

    I’m less concerned about the level of IQ that does or doesn’t prevail within a group — assuming that IQ has little impact on people’s ideology — than by the dominant politics within that group. As far as I’m concerned, the monolithic leftism of black America (ie, 90-plus percent) is the big stumbling block or Achilles’s heel. Mindless liberalism corrupts and destabilizes people and communities more than anything else.

    Genius Albert Einstein was of the left, and self-entitled Bill Clinton is known to have extremely good retention. But the intellectual capacity of such people is offset by their foolishness in the category of bias and ideology. However, I guess to have their biases while also lacking their IQ skills would be the worst of both worlds. But for the average person out on the street — and in the everyday world — I’d say common sense is more important than not being in situations where the sarcasm of “hey, Einstein…!” is triggered.

    Mark (411533)

  72. They are talking about this post at LGF, of course.

    Actually, they’re not. It’s deader than a doornail over there this afternoon.

    Engineer #5 (0c7c42)

  73. Dustin , thanks.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  74. “Planted comment. No “/I am just joking” qualifier. And everyone in the comments is appalled.”

    And you happily continue with your deceptive routine.

    Here is the context:

    “N*gger’s n’ wookies iz socialism!

    Killgore Trout on September 18, 2009 at 1:25 AM

    C’mon. Where are the moderators?

    Killgore Trout on September 18, 2009 at 1:25 AM”

    Context is everything.

    “I never said thousands. I said there is no proof either way”

    Of course there is, for those who apply their common sense. Supposing that thousands of those racist comments by old-time posters are planted by liberals is ridiculous. This is the proof that most of them were not planted. Some of them? Maybe, purely theoretically. No evidence of that whatsoever (and it’s pretty improbable, given that there is no need to plant racist comments when there are already thousands of them written by conservatives), but even if there was a dozen or so of planted comments, that would not change the big picture. This is the point you’re missing, intentionally or not.

    “If we KNOW that Killgore Trout went over in the middle of the night to insert racist comments not reflecting his views to make some kind of point . . . then who’s to say other people haven’t done the same.”

    Since you have seen the comments now, I’m absolutely justified in saying the following: now you’re being intentionally deceptive.

    Schmoby (771c3a)

  75. Also, regarding whether these are “planted” or just ugliness, if they aren’t planted racist comments, then why did Charles and Kilgore claim they show something about the Hot Air community?

    If they were clearly attacks on the community, why were they used as examples of what the moderators tolerate? That would only make sense if they were indeed planted to show what the moderators tolerate.

    So many contradictions here… the exact same incident is twisted in a series of different ways. Whatever interpretation makes the current point for Charles and Kilgore is the right one, even if 30 seconds ago they needed a totally different one.

    Dustin (330eed)

  76. I will add the link provided by Schmoby to the post so people can see the comments themselves. I believe “planted” is still accurate, given that not every comment had a disqualifier, as I have shown. But I will provide the link so people can make their own judgments.

    In context, I’d have to say the comments where he didn’t include a disclaimer were drunken irony/shaming, not deceptive moby-ish comment planting.

    Random (fba0b1)

  77. Well Engineer #5, they were talking about it and Killgore is aware of this post. It’s deader than a doornail over there because most are reading here and furiously clicking refresh.

    MrPaulRevere (0442fd)

  78. KT alone or in concert with others, was shilling and then complaining about the shills.

    Comment by Sarahw

    Too true.

    It’s too cute by half to claim that Kilgore’s routine is justified just because of all the earnestly racist comments that sure seem like mobies to me. I guess Kilgore can tell who is a moby and isn’t. Ugliness at Hot Air: not planted, not moby, proof positive of hate. Ugliness at LGF: planted mobies that prove nothing.

    Who do these guys think they are fooling?

    Dustin (330eed)

  79. A dog returns to his vomit: Chuckles’ lot in life.

    The Ancient of Days “I will love whom I will love, and hate him whom I will.”

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  80. Random – well then, why was CJ complaining about Kilgore’s posts remaining up?

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  81. Like shooting fish in a barrel. Does CJ ever even attempt logical discussion when he’s confronted like this? I have never once seen him engage in intelligent conversation with people who confront him with his BS.

    Book (0def8c)

  82. In context, I’d have to say the comments where he didn’t include a disclaimer were drunken irony/shaming, not deceptive moby-ish comment planting.

    If you saw the context.

    Not every comment reader does.

    Apparently he started on a previous page. I can’t see what was on that page. But what if someone stopped reading at that page?

    Patterico (feda6b)

  83. Does Kilgore not understand that there are black people reading comments at Hot Air? His joke at their expense actually seemed to anger everybody at Hot Air, which is why I find this incident confusing (they seem to not grant that the Hot Air community didn’t agree with Kilgore’s comments).

    Did Kilgore apologize for what he said? Sticks and stones and all that, but it’s rude and infantile to joke that black people act like monkeys and n****s/wookies are ‘the problem’. Even if Kilgore had made some brilliant point (which he didn’t), his humor was ugly and when he sobered up, I hope he came back to Hot Air to apologize for erecting barriers that push blacks (and those who don’t appreciate hostility to blacks) away.

    Whether it’s planted or some other word for leaving nasty comments to smear a site, he owed that apology.

    Dustin (330eed)

  84. Can we see these thousands of racist comments at major conservative sites? Does someone have a list?

    Patterico (feda6b)

  85. It’s too cute by half to claim that Kilgore’s routine is justified just because of all the earnestly racist comments that sure seem like mobies to me.

    No way, no how. I read and sometimes comment there too, and I have too often — recently — yesterday, if I remember right — seen “wookie” type commenters from regulars there, who come across as conservatives in every respect. I’m not slow to call out Mobies.

    I’ve not infrequently seen these comments going back years too — and not just at Hot Air.

    SarahW’s defense, that this isn’t racist, might have merit, but it not happening there is a non-starter.

    Random (fba0b1)

  86. *seen “wookie” type commenters

    Random (fba0b1)

  87. If you saw the context.

    Not every comment reader does.

    Yes, that’s true. And that would be an unfortunate oversight on his part that would deceive some people, as seeing things out of context always does. But it isn’t the same thing as trying to deceive. More like not adding context to every comment, and placing them within a free-flowing conversation when mad and drunk.

    I relate a bit because I’ve sometimes gotten mad at the “wookie” comments too. Note: I know next to nothing about Kingore Trout, except had read your post and Ace’s post way back when.

    Random (fba0b1)

  88. “Ok, I’ll conclude my experiment….
    Nobody’s minding the store. Hot Air, like so many other right wing blogs doesn’t care. Nobody’s minding the store. Absolutely
    nobody else chimed in and saif that they were uncomfortable with the Michelle Obama/wookie comparisons. Nobody cares and
    nobody finds this slightly unusual. This is the direction that conservatives have chosen. Good luck with your openly racist agenda.
    /I’d still like a job that pays well enough to ignore this shit.

    Killgore Trout on September 18, 2009 at 2:01 AM”

    So he deliberately left some comments to see if anyone objected to them — but he was obvious about the fact that he wasn’t pretending to be a conservative?

    Huh?

    Patterico (feda6b)

  89. Yes, that’s true. And that would be an unfortunate oversight on his part that would deceive some people, as seeing things out of context always does. But it isn’t the same thing as trying to deceive.

    I have yet to see the first comments he left. They are not at the link Schmoby provided. In fact, he seems to have disappeared now that people are revealing his facts to be misleading.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  90. I remember on Hot Air from sometime in the last few days, M. Obama getting insulted, and another commenter there standing up for her and saying something like she’s a physically attractive woman and besides, you’re being an ass. Paraphrasing.

    So it happens, and sometimes (less than it happens) other conservative commenters call out that juvenile, offensive behavior — which some people see as racist. I know, rightly or wrongly, I’ve seen it that way at times.

    Random (fba0b1)

  91. “…full of claims he knows are false.”

    what does he think he’s getting over with that? Is he accusing you of forging blog posts in his name and sneaking them onto his servers?

    johnson’s resort to attributing objectionable commentary to “liberal plants” goes far beyond the two items shown above. at the link is a collection of his below-the-fold commentary about spotting “mobies”. http://wingularity.com/lizardoidsaid.php?searchstring=moby&era=0&qtype=1

    johnson’s perfidy reaches far beyond that, however . when johnson was what he’d now describe as a “wingnut” he would ply the same tactic of cherry-picking comments against progressive blogs, and when this would backfire on him, he had some interesting things to say about the tactic:

    “Conservative” bloggers, please take note! Glenn Greenwald expects you to be aware of what every right-wing blogger is writing every single second of every day. And if you see something offensive to Glenn Greenwald, you’d better condemn it right away!

    Or else you’re a hypocrite or something.

    often he would present the pro-forma comment policy notice as a sheild against association with his comments section…

    And you won’t find a single page of comments at Daily Kos that contains a disclaimer, to explicitly point out that comments are the responsibility of the poster, not representative of the views of the owner.

    At LGF, you’ll find such a disclaimer at the top of every page of comments.

    the fact of the matter is that back when his site was noxious enough that it was the subject of an fbi hatecrimes investigation, johnson would attack the messenger as enemies of free speech, …

    I have a great idea, Peter. Why don’t you start your own weblog with a commenting system? Then you can experience the joy of deleting comments yourself, instead of demanding that I do it for you.

    What is it about free speech that’s so hard for some people to understand?

    but the fact of the matter is that charles simply wasn’t offended by racist speech in his blog comments…

    sure, if you put that interpretation on it, you can see it as a racist comment.

    But since there are numerous Western “peace activists” in the West Bank and Gaza, harassing the IDF and “supporting” the Palestinian Arabs, a more likely interpretation is that …

    It’s a JOKE.

    and when he did delete genocidal and racist comments, it was expressly for looks:

    yes, there is code to filter a few derogatory terms that have been found to provoke strong reactions, cause arguments, and give the Morlocks (e.d.: “liberals”) ammunition when they’re cherry-picking comments to smear LGF.

    jummy (439552)

  92. I have yet to see the first comments he left. They are not at the link Schmoby provided. In fact, he seems to have disappeared now that people are revealing his facts to be misleading.

    Yeah, good point. But doing a google search, in quotes, for some unique text on that post will probably reveal the post’s URL, and from there should be easy enough to verify.

    Random (fba0b1)

  93. Search term:

    site:hotair.com “unique search text, in quotes”

    is the way to find it. I’ll give it a shot.

    Random (fba0b1)

  94. Yeah, good point. But doing a google search, in quotes, for some unique text on that post will probably reveal the post’s URL, and from there should be easy enough to verify.

    Feel free. Since you can’t look up the comments now, because they were deleted, they won’t be at the URL. But if you want to find them and report back, go ahead.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  95. And just so you know, Patterico — and I assume you know — it’s extremely easy to fake a screen shot. In fact, you can get a browser plug-in/extention that will let you take the screen shot, edit the text as easy as I’m typing this, and print it to .JPG or .PNG.

    It’s unfortunate that that’s the case, but it is so.

    Random (fba0b1)

  96. Actually someone else above gave the link to the whole HA exchange. Here’s Killgore’s first comment:

    “Oh, man. You guys crack be up! Comparing the president’s wife to an ill-mannered space ape is the
    funniest and least racist way to oppose socialism that I can’t stop laughing. What’s really funny is that
    space monkeys looks like black people in the White House and the people in the White House look
    like space monkeys! Isn’t that the funniest and least racist thing ever? You guys are bound to win
    elections now that you’ve discovered that the president’s wife looks like a wookie! HA HA HA! we’ll
    laugh our way to victory! Hooray!

    Killgore Trout on September 18, 2009 at 12:34 AM”

    I think this speaks for itself. Or does it? Should I explain the meaning of “sarcasm” here?

    Schmoby (a3b8c0)

  97. Search term:

    site:hotair.com “unique search text, in quotes”

    is the way to find it. I’ll give it a shot.

    If the comments were deleted within hours?

    OK, if you say so.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  98. Charles Johnson might have suddenly flip flopped, but he didn’t suddenly become a capricious, narcissistic control freak. He always had those traits. (Witness how every single thing on his blog had to be written by himself even long after blogging tools and commenting tools were abundant).

    I lurked at LGF almost daily in the early years, but the more he began going off capriciously on people, the less I visited. He seemed to not be particularly stable, and was veering off into online fights only to feed his ego. His site became far less interesting as he became more like Captain Queeg.

    What I can’t understand is, why do people even bother with LGF or CJ anymore? He’s desperate for website hits, and any attention paid to him gives him those. He’s a pathetic man with some pathetic followers.

    Whenever I visit Patterico’s site, it’s like seeing an old friend. Whenever I see that Patterico is responding to CJ, I think, that’s still going on? Why does Patterico even bother? Ah well.

    Xanthippe (a3d1fd)

  99. “In fact, he seems to have disappeared now that people are revealing his facts to be misleading.”

    And you continue to deceive. My last comments did not get through and you know this.

    Schmoby 2 (2c855f)

  100. Repeat comment:

    Actually someone else above gave the link to the whole HA exchange. Here’s Killgore’s first comment:

    “Oh, man. You guys crack be up! Comparing the president’s wife to an ill-mannered space ape is the
    funniest and least racist way to oppose socialism that I can’t stop laughing. What’s really funny is that
    space monkeys looks like black people in the White House and the people in the White House look
    like space monkeys! Isn’t that the funniest and least racist thing ever? You guys are bound to win
    elections now that you’ve discovered that the president’s wife looks like a wookie! HA HA HA! we’ll
    laugh our way to victory! Hooray!

    Killgore Trout on September 18, 2009 at 12:34 AM”

    I think this speaks for itself. Or does it? Should I explain the meaning of “sarcasm” here?

    Schmoby 2 (a9197b)

  101. Schmoby is comical.

    JD (516dcc)

  102. I have to say ‘Random’ you sure seem to be engaging in a lot of misdirection and obfuscation for someone who knows “next to nothing” about Killgore.

    MrPaulRevere (0442fd)

  103. Resident LGF suck up and failed seducer Hoosier Hoops also got busted once time trying to plant commentgs on Ace.

    Sper (89e6b0)

  104. Feel free. Since you can’t look up the comments now, because they were deleted, they won’t be at the URL. But if you want to find them and report back, go ahead.

    Well there’s this comment, Patterico. It shows that he was hardly shy in hiding his disdain for Hot Air:

    Killgore Trout’s missing this? Awww, he was here earlier today dumping all over HotAir. Talk about poor timing.

    Christien on September 17, 2009 at 10:12 PM

    Or that his identity was secret:

    He’s from LGF, right?

    What’s his beef?

    IrishEi on September 17, 2009 at 10:15 PM

    So even though Kilgore Trout’s comments themselves may have been deleted, there’s enough there from others to at least show that Kilgore wasn’t hiding either his identity or dislike of Hot Air. Note from the time stamps, Kilgore’s feelings and identity were well known before he posted the racist comments.

    Random (fba0b1)

  105. Schmoby, you came into this wielding only the big lie that Patterico accused Johnson of planting comments.

    instead of being tedious, try responding to the keystone fact of why Johnson is, as Patterico titled the article, “An Unlikely Crusader Against Racist Comments,” that is, because Charles Johnson (Lizardoid) blamed all the racist comments at his own site on “liberal plants”.

    jummy (439552)

  106. I have to say ‘Random’ you sure seem to be engaging in a lot of misdirection and obfuscation

    Which misdirection and obfuscuration?

    for someone who knows “next to nothing” about Killgore.

    I already said I read Ace’s post way back when about him, plus Patterico’s, I’d imagine, if he wrote one then. I’ve heard his nickname before. But I’m hardly a KT scholar.

    Random (fba0b1)

  107. . Absolutely
    nobody else chimed in and saif that they were uncomfortable with the Michelle Obama/wookie comparisons.

    Kilgore Trout claims no one chimed in. Yet *all* the comments I read say stuff like:

    horrible comments -redshirt on September 18, 2009 at

    Stop it your fool! -dlcarter

    The views of Kilgore Trout do not reflect those of Hot Air Management nor regular commenters nor 99.9% of people with
    two synapses to rub together. -elizabctty

    Very brave! Go back to your friends and show them what great little lizard you are. -d1carter

    trollx -tballard

    Dude. No. -Spiritk9

    There are many more like that. Seems like Kilgore found as close to universal condemnation as you’ll find. Yet he reports “no one chimed in”. I find that sad.

    Dustin (330eed)

  108. If the comments were deleted within hours?

    OK, if you say so.

    Comment by Patterico — 4/15/2012 @ 4:41 pm

    No, I couldn’t find KT’s comments, but other Hot Air commenters comments, still on the site to this day, left before KT’s without-included-disclaimer-faux-racist comments, show that KT’s identity and feelings about Hot Air were not hidden.

    Random (fba0b1)

  109. Resident LGF suck up and failed seducer Hoosier Hoops also got busted once time trying to plant commentgs on Ace.

    Comment by Sper

    I’m not surprised. Once Charles gave Kilgore credit for proving something about Hot Air, that would predictably inspire many more mobies to plant ugliness and score some points.

    And every LGF commenter (I was one before I was banned) knows that this planting game is dishonest. So I don’t get why Charles would pretend his own argument is ridiculous when used to defend a site Charles doesn’t like.

    This reduces the discussion to essentially just a team sport. You’re on my team, he’s on their team, so rah rah rah.

    Dustin (330eed)

  110. Nobody chimed in, so long as you ignore all of the people who did chime in. Surreal.

    JD (21d1c4)

  111. Kilgore Trout claims no one chimed in. Yet *all* the comments I read say stuff like:

    horrible comments -redshirt on September 18, 2009 at

    Stop it your fool! -dlcarter

    The views of Kilgore Trout do not reflect those of Hot Air Management nor regular commenters nor 99.9% of people with
    two synapses to rub together. -elizabctty

    Very brave! Go back to your friends and show them what great little lizard you are. -d1carter

    trollx -tballard

    Dude. No. -Spiritk9

    I’ve personally criticized such comments and seen others do so, so I’m not surprised you found others who called them out. I’m glad there were so many.

    Random (fba0b1)

  112. Random, your interest in defending Killgore Trout is duly noted. As to your motivation I have no idea.

    MrPaulRevere (0442fd)

  113. For a while I wondered if KT was a sockpuppet of CJ, or a meatpuppet trying to stir the pot. CJ started as a liberal, flipped at 9/11, and now seems to be wandering home, with a severe case of PTSD.

    htom (412a17)

  114. Schmoby has a bunch of comments in the spam folder. I wonder why they are there. Is he a banned commenter? Anyway, I will go released them.

    He confidently says I knew they were in spam even though I am pretty sure he does not live in my house and had no freaking idea.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  115. It’s really pitiful what he has become, we already
    have Think Regress and Raw Story, why do we need him

    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/weblog.php

    narciso (8d0f34)

  116. You’re all banned, BANNED bwaahaahaa!

    Oh wait, wrong blog.

    Charles Johnson (069f69)

  117. I’m not surprised. Once Charles gave Kilgore credit for proving something about Hot Air, that would predictably inspire many more mobies to plant ugliness and score some points.
    Comment by Dustin — 4/15/2012 @ 4:57 pm

    That could be part of it, but I’ve enough such comments for so long by those who generally talk conservatively and don’t otherwise act like Mobys, that I’m sure some of it has to be real grass, not Astroturf.

    Their comment policy states that they don’t necessarily agree with or endorse any commenters’ viewpoint. The fact is, Hot Air gets a lot of comments and doesn’t usually micromanage the threads. I see this as a feature, not a bug.

    Random, your interest in defending Killgore Trout is duly noted. As to your motivation I have no idea.

    Comment by MrPaulRevere — 4/15/2012 @ 4:59 pm

    Known as “the pursuit of truth”.

    Random (fba0b1)

  118. I do retract the comment about Schmoby disappearing. He was furiously contributing deceptive comments using an anonymizer and apparently hitting the spam folder as a result. That’s a guess; I’m not 100% sure why he was hitting spam.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  119. You’re all banned, BANNED bwaahaahaa!

    Oh wait, wrong blog.

    Comment by Charles Johnson — 4/15/2012 @ 5:02 pm

    LOL

    Well, I’ve definitely had the honor their. Simple disagreement with Johnson was enough; it was not necessary to strike an aggressive tone.

    Random (fba0b1)

  120. There are many more like that. Seems like Kilgore found as close to universal condemnation as you’ll find. Yet he reports “no one chimed in”. I find that sad.

    Comment by Dustin — 4/15/2012 @ 4:53 pm

    You’re quite right. A number of people raised the point the next day. KT responded with what amounted to, “Did not! Or, at least not fast!” (Ah, KT? It was what, 2 a.m. on the west coast? How many people were even awake?), and a lot of people just dropped it. I did, because I was planning on walking, by then, and also, KT had a tendency, if you pressed him, to get paranoid, and claim everyone was persecuting him, and then assume the role of righteous martyr.

    It was a pretty awful thing to watch, or be involved in, and the rest of what was going on…well. You had to have cared about some of these people to have been quite as horrified as I was.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  121. Can’t help but be reminded of that Canadian fellow who worked for one of their Human Rights Tribunals and left moby comments everywhere, which he then used to prove that White Supremacy was commonplace.

    Steyn and Ezra Levant had some good stuff on him, if I recall correctly. Don’t overlook the fact that some folks livelihoods are built on generating impressions of racism.

    Why, yes; I am looking at you Mark Potok of the SPLC. And don’t you look fetching in your hood and robes of indignation.

    Uncle Pinky (9ff2f7)

  122. Bring him to his bony knees.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4yiB-Pahts&feature=related

    Raj Koothrapali (28f95f)

  123. Johnson’s a paranoid prick. I gave him a scoop a few years back that got thousands of views, then posted one comment about his making a “Kos-like” post a couple of weeks later and got permanently banned. Since about 2006, I think he’s been pretty schizoid…

    JWnTX (164f55)

  124. The commenters DID object to KT’s comments – so the parting claim was just insane.

    But how nutty is it to expect people to engage a troll. Charles has always had difficulty with this one thinking error – that persons are obliged to respond to pain in the _ss or else they agree with everything the pain in the _ss asserts. (not being sweet there, just trying to avoid the filter)

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  125. I had completely forgotten about LGF! Is it all popular or influential in anyway? I’m doubting it…

    Alex (31c567)

  126. “It was a pretty awful thing to watch” Yes it was Dianna I saw it happen in real time and I thought it was the most low down dishonest and disgusting trick I had ever seen. I literally could not believe what was appearing on my monitor. You were always one of my favorites over there, BTW.

    MrPaulRevere (0442fd)

  127. Actually, ironically, now that I remember it, I recently got into quite a verbal tussle at Hot Air for getting into a vicious argument with this racist a–hole commenter (and I was saying lots of teh vicious, but not teh racism) who was going after a (openly declared) liberal woman, and even outed some other black woman’s identity and FB account by mistake, while racist in doing so.

    So I find it hard to buy the there’s no racism among conservative commenters’ comments angle, personally.

    Sure, it could have been some leftist deep black op, for some reason inexplicably not exploited (it was more likely to be harmful than the comments above). But I doubt it. I doubt it a lot.

    Note, though, that Hot Air deleted at least some of Lanceman’s comments, the ones outing the misidentified black woman’s identity, plus some of the worst of his racist comments. They also deleted some of my angry comments. It wasn’t just the racism that made me mad. It was him trying to out a woman’s identity, possibly exposing her to physical or economic or reputation harm, that made me furious.

    Random (fba0b1)

  128. Bloggers are not obliged to police comments, or by not refuting it, take on any particular commenter (Nut, troll, dope, genius or angel)’s opinion as his own If they do police they are not obliged to catch every offense, if they catch any.

    I don’t know what is wrong with Charles, but he’s broken. He just doesn’t think straight.

    And if KT’s comments are unobjectionable, -not racist – why was Charles complaining about them remaining unmoderated. KT put them there. They are his words. If they are something to be ashamed of, he’s first in line.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  129. I had completely forgotten about LGF! Is it all popular or influential in anyway? I’m doubting it…

    Comment by Alex — 4/15/2012 @ 5:16 pm

    Hey, Alex! Good to see you, bud.

    Random (fba0b1)

  130. What is not mentioned here is that Kilgore Trout also spent a lot of time on Stormfront blogs posting. He was a moby there also and also a participant.

    The day after his hot air adventure I was disappointed in him as a fellow LGF er. If you know Kilgore, you know he was not always drunk when doing this. And drinking was a way for him to screw up his courage to do what he really wanted to do.

    Myself and a lot of other posters fell Kilgore Trout was just taking advantage of the opportunity to be himself. He got off leaving racist comments on conservative blogs but was really only pretending to be a moby so he could do it. He looked at it as the perfect racial crime.

    And in fact this is in tune with the Charles Johnson psychology against facism etc. I was surprised that Charles didn’t outright ban him. but you slowly realize Charles was secretly delighted to approve of Kilgore’s antics.

    It was a day realizing how much integrity Charles lacks. Charles and Kilgore spent a lot of time chatting in backchannels manipulating the direction of his blog and choosing which posters to praise and which to pile on. One of his super posters should be able to confirm that.

    jd2 (40a8c6)

  131. The Killgore Trout deal is not the main point of the post. The whole is: mobies exist, CJ used to complain about them, he has zero proof any one comment is not from a moby, and indeed he had a buddy who left racist comments at a conservative site that didn’t reflect his true views. Killgore Trout is only one part of that argument.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  132. Killgore wasn’t the only LGF commenter to have been busted planting racist comments on conservative blogs. Longtime LGF poster HoosierHoops was, too, on an Ace of Spades thread in 2009 that was about LGF:

    LGF Civil War Makes Media Outlet

    A guide, if it’s needed:

    HoosierHoops first shows up using the nickname “me” at comment #258. At #268 he starts to post under the name “HoosierHoops” and begins to argue with the Ace of Spades commenters.

    A racist comment was posted on the thread at #549. One of Ace’s mods, rdbrewer, deletes the comment within a minute and mentions in #550 that “9y4iB is a Moby.”

    HoosierHoops comes in at comment #553, as does a new nickname – “ThisSpaceForRent” at #554, attacking Ace of Spades for allowing racist comments such as #549 to stand, even though it had been deleted nearly 20 minutes earlier. Somehow they have the text of the comment even though it had already been deleted and stood for < 60 seconds. The two posters join up as a tag team to argue with Ace's posters.

    In comment #606 rdbrewer mentions that HoosierHoops has posted the deleted racist comment on LGF and presented it as being accepted on Ace (even though it was deleted 1 minute after being posted). Then, in #623 rdbrewer accuses LGF of planting the comment.

    In his next post after that accusation, #646, HoosierHoops changed his tune completely: he says "things got out of hand on my part…I'm not a troll…I'm sorry to those that I offended"

    That was his last post on Ace of Spades. Hoosier Hoops is still a regular poster at LGF today.

    Emperor (5fcebd)

  133. But how nutty is it to expect people to engage a troll.

    Yeah, that’s true. Many reasonable people would simply not feed the troll, hoping he went away. Some would even realize it’s a moby and just talk about the actual topic of the thread.

    From the troll’s perspective, it’s all about the troll. Engage the troll and you’re ‘butthurt’ and ‘lulz’ happen. Ignore the troll and you’re tolerating hateful planted racism. It’s almost as though Kilgore doesn’t actually care about a discussion of issues, and just wants to score points against his enemies, changing tactics and even principles as necessary, like a sophist.

    I’m sure some of it has to be real grass

    Random, I agree. There are fringe jerks of all shapes and sizes on both or all four sides of the spectrum (however you see the spectrum). Even then, the fringe do not define the rest of us. And the most egregious ones are almost universally fake in my opinion.

    Dustin (330eed)

  134. Seriously? Anyone wanna answer my questions, or just be dicks? Oi vey!

    Alex (31c567)

  135. #129 – MrPaulRevere – Hello, then! I thought you must be a former; you have the same bitterness I do!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  136. I swear Alex is a deep cover conservative Moby anti-Moby.

    Random (fba0b1)

  137. So I find it hard to buy the there’s no racism among conservative commenters’ comments angle, personally.

    Me too. Lucky thing that is not what I have argued. It is merely what Charles Johnson claims I have argued.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  138. That was a joke, by the way — I’m sure he’s a regular Moby, just bad at it.

    Random (fba0b1)

  139. The Killgore Trout deal is not the main point of the post.

    Good luck steering the convo back from the scratched scab!

    And I mean that. You gave Charles a factual argument. He couldn’t respond directly, and engaged in infantile insults which escalated to yet another edition of ‘you know where he works?’

    Dustin (330eed)

  140. Alex: LGF is like the dead hyena that lays in the road after a car runs over it.

    No one wants to pick it up, but it’s still there.

    Lord Nazh (821ae1)

  141. I’d love to see links to Killgore Trout being a Moby at Stormfront, Random.

    Of course, if he did, Chuckles would just claim he was doing so under “his own name.” And if he did it under another name? We wouldn’t know, would we?

    Patterico (feda6b)

  142. And if Charles Johnson believes that a blogger IS “responsible” for all the “offensive” or “racist” remarks by commenters, then why does he feel it is necessary for him to issue a disclaimer on his website, stating that the views of commenters do not necessarily reflect the views of the proprietor of LittleGreenFootballs.com ?

    It’s like how Obama berates “rich people” for taking tax deductions, and then Obama goes ahead and takes….tax deductions for himself !

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  143. Me too. Lucky thing that is not what I have argued. It is merely what Charles Johnson claims I have argued.

    Quite right.

    At the same time, I think you have to acknowledge that Kilgore Trout, while he didn’t provide context and a disclaimer with each of his “racist comments”, apparently was open about his negative feelings on Hot Air, and his identity and association with LGF: indeed other commenters talked about them on the same thread before he made the “racist comments”.

    KT wasn’t misrepresenting himself as a typical Hot Air conservative commenter;
    he may have been trying to sandbag the hosts and “prove” they aren’t reading and screening every comment, which is obvious and uninteresting, and a given by their written comment policy.

    Random (fba0b1)

  144. The whole [point] is: mobies exist ….

    Threadwinner!

    Random (fba0b1)

  145. At the same time, I think you have to acknowledge that Kilgore Trout, while he didn’t provide context and a disclaimer with each of his “racist comments”, apparently was open about his negative feelings on Hot Air, and his identity and association with LGF: indeed other commenters talked about them on the same thread before he made the “racist comments”.

    KT wasn’t misrepresenting himself as a typical Hot Air conservative commenter; he may have been trying to sandbag the hosts and “prove” they aren’t reading and screening every comment, which is obvious and uninteresting, and a given by their written comment policy.

    Even if I grant this, I still think that by doing this in the middle of the night, he was planting racist comments on the site.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  146. Uh, oh. Charles is going to respond! In a venue where no one can challenge him! Courage.

    68 Charles Johnson Apr 15, 2012 4:53:33pm

    OK, and now I’m reconsidering, because I see that I’ve never actually addressed this fake “planted comments” fairytale in an LGF post. Maybe if I spell it out one time in a post, then I’d at least have something I could point to when these freaking morons start up again with this shit.

    Engineer #5 (0c7c42)

  147. Random, it’s ok, you’re not guilty of racism because KT used a vile word in the middle of the night.

    And we have noted your distaste for those who express their dislike for Mrs. Obama by calling her “wookie.” Got it. Thanks.

    I actually spent years on the same blog as KT. I do not (somehow) feel the need to explain what he did, or defend myself from guilt by association.

    Can we go back to the real point, that there is no way in hell for Charles, or anyone else, for that matter, to spot all these racist comments he claims he does, and know for a certainty that they are posted by evil racists, known to and approved by the blog owners?

    Dianna (f12db5)

  148. What is all of the upset about? Who is Charles Johnson anyway?

    Walter Sobchak (3f12ad)

  149. Even if I grant this, I still think that by doing this in the middle of the night, he was planting racist comments on the site.

    Indisputable, but Hot Air deleted the context which would have explained to Hot Air’s readers why he was doing that: the point he was trying to make … as well as the offensive content itself. Had Hot Air not deleted KT’s other comments, it’s likely an in-context reading would have shown he was trying to highlight that Hot Air doesn’t moderate racist comments. Which I don’t think they ought to as a rule (exception being when someone does something dangerous). Free speech is the best antidote.

    You MUST concede the following point (I say this in humor as much as anything):

    Kilgore Trout came from an environment where tight — and wildly unreasonable! — censorship is the norm. Hot Air’s culture of open arguments must have been a shock to him.

    Random (fba0b1)

  150. Even if I grant this, I still think that by doing this in the middle of the night, he was planting racist comments on the site.

    Indisputable,

    Except Charles repeatedly disputes it.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  151. Never was a more radical about-face than that affected by Charles Johnson of LGF sometime after his TANG postings of mid-2004. Reluctantly, we lowered life-rafts and paddled off… maybe Moochelle’s current anti-obesity jihad could be pressed into service regarding this misfortunate apostate’s frontal lobes.

    John Blake (0ecd2d)

  152. The most shocking thing I have learned from this: Charles Johnson is still alive.

    arminius (f963d5)

  153. Patterico – I haven’t missed your point, and it’s all perfectly correct.

    This about KT : “He looked at it as the perfect racial crime.”
    That is too interesting a theory not to be diverted by it for a moment.

    JD2 – what do you mean by that exactly? That he is longing to express racist thoughts, or that he just wants to make the world look as racist as he believes it is – but for which the ordinary real truth or real manifestations are insufficient somehow to speak for themselves?

    Charles has weird notions about comments and what they mean about anyone who writes content to be commented upon and/or also the other people commenting. A commenter’s comment belong to him and no one else, no matter how the comments are moderated, no matter how anyone responds or does not respond to him.

    It must flow out of his crazy ideas about being in the same room with someone who has ideas of any kind- that they somehow belong to anyone in the same room.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  154. Random writes: “Indisputable, but Hot Air deleted the context which would have explained to Hot Air’s readers why he was doing that: the point he was trying to make … as well as the offensive content itself. Had Hot Air not deleted KT’s other comments, it’s likely an in-context reading would have shown he was trying to highlight that Hot Air doesn’t moderate racist comments. Which I don’t think they ought to as a rule (exception being when someone does something dangerous). Free speech is the best antidote.

    What a confused mess of random words, you’ve chosen your nickname well. KT had a point that Hotair so viciously undermined by deleting all of his trolling comments … rather than just the racist ones that they were supposed to delete? Or not delete?

    Did this really make sense in your head before you wrote it?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  155. Even if I grant this, I still think that by doing this in the middle of the night, he was planting racist comments on the site.

    Indisputable,

    Except Charles repeatedly disputes it.

    Comment by Patterico — 4/15/2012 @ 5:53 pm

    I see one problem with the above, at least until you can show me a direct C.J. quote that undermines what I’m about to say.

    I don’t think C.J. is saying that K.T. never wrote the words he wrote, is he? (If he is, please provide a quote, link, or other showing this.) That would be delusional and laughable.

    I think what C.J.’s saying is that K.T.’s comments weren’t racist in context because they were using irony and sarcasm to make the point that racist comments stand at Hot Air (which, in truly ironical form, they did not: they are gone), and that this could be understood by a reasonable person reading the entire thread.

    If, on the other hand, C.J. actually said that K.T. never left those particular comments, then I stand corrected.

    Random (fba0b1)

  156. Nigger’s n’ wookies iz socialism!

    Killgore Trout on September 18, 2009 at 1:25 a.m.

    Clearly not a plant.

    JD (21d1c4)

  157. No, CJ says the comments weren’t “planted.”

    And if I say they were, he doesn’t just dispute my characterization. He calls it a “lie.”

    Patterico (feda6b)

  158. “Random, it’s ok, you’re not guilty of racism because KT used a vile word in the middle of the night.”

    Dianna – Random’s approach of labeling black people less intelligent than white people based on “scientific” studies and theories of genetics is much classier and sophisticated than calling them “wookies”, doncha think?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  159. JD,

    He did immediately leave another comment with sarcasm. Was he covering his ass after a planted comment? Dunno. Still haven’t seen other comments leading up to it.

    I will say that you are knowingly lying and racist. As Charles Johnson has proved all conservative commenters are.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  160. Well, he doesn’t like planted. They were definitely posted, to see whether they would be deleted i guess, though who can say. It doesn’t seem very well thought out to me.

    If the comments are innocuous, why did Charles think they should have been deleted, or were proof of anything but KT’s speech?

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  161. No, CJ says the comments weren’t “planted.”

    And if I say they were, he doesn’t just dispute my characterization. He calls it a “lie.”

    Well, maybe his point is that KT’s association with LGF and his criticism of Hot Air were well known at Hot Air (which I’ve shown above) before the comments were made, so to call them “planted” is a stretch, as that could be seen to imply a secret, surreptitious effort.

    Random (fba0b1)

  162. Then I’ll try again the comment that you previously called “indisputable” and now suggest is a “stretch.”

    I still think that by doing this in the middle of the night, he was planting racist comments on the site.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  163. #162 – Daleyrocks – Yeah, I know.

    I had this momentary hope we could get to the actual point of contention, that’s all.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  164. Call it taunting, even. But it was KTs taunting and all his own choice of words. No one joined his chorus.

    Why should anyone have to pretend he was worthy of notice in the first place is beyond me, but there were complaints, not assent.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  165. Can we use a high speed camera to figure out where the goal posts are that Random keeps moving?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  166. And lord help me, why is anybody but KT supposed to take responsibility for what he decides to say, or give a minute to his imaginary grievances?

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  167. Except, Charles, by his own standards, has given his blessing to KT for the “value” of KTs efforts.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  168. Dianna – Random’s approach of labeling black people less intelligent than white people based on “scientific” studies and theories of genetics is much classier and sophisticated than calling them “wookies”, doncha think?

    Comment by daleyrocks — 4/15/2012 @ 6:05 pm

    Life has huge variability. Individuals vary. Families vary. Etc. Larger populations vary (on average: tells you nothing about a given individual), it turns out.

    There is such a thing as intelligence testing, SAT scores, and the like. You could look into it.

    Question for you: by what natural mechanism would the brain remain unchanged but bodies change as humans moved into very different geographical niches and were separated from others by tens of thousands of years, interbreeding with different hominid species no less? How would this have happened, in light of genetic drift and natural selection and inter-species admixture?

    I’m actually curious. I’ve been asking this question for a while and no one has answered it. I’m looking for a good answer. This whole topic is something I certainly wouldn’t mind being proved wrong about, so I could return to the view I had most of my life. It’s a nicer view and a comforting view. Alas, it doesn’t match the evidence.

    But prove me wrong. That would be really cool. Maybe genetics is just a bit-player in human abilities.

    Random (fba0b1)

  169. They were certainly foisted upon a most unwilling crowd.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  170. Except, Charles, by his own standards, has given his blessing to KT for the “value” of KTs efforts.

    Comment by Sarahw — 4/15/2012 @ 6:14 pm

    Why, yes. And the holy howling hypocrisy of that blessing is, indeed, why there ends up being an issue at all!

    Why Charles cannot simply agree with Patterico’s point and say, “I may have gotten a bit defensive, there. Huh.” I do not know. It’s all a bit ridiculous when it’s not painful.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  171. “Can we use a high speed camera to figure out where the goal posts are that Random keeps moving?”

    SPQR – Random’s lengthy dissertations on the intelligence of various ethnic groups do leave a nice trail for people to follow should people ever want to allow Patterico of allowing racist comments at his site, almost like the same situation being discussed in the post in fact.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  172. I had this momentary hope we could get to the actual point of contention, that’s all.

    I think the CJ acolytes’ argument is: there are thousands and thousands and thousands of racist comments, not that we’ll provide evidence of this, and it is simply laughable to suggest that every single one of them was by a moby, even though nobody is arguing that.

    So it’s an argument based on lack of evidence and strawmen.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  173. Except, Charles, by his own standards, has given his blessing to KT for the “value” of KTs efforts.

    Comment by Sarahw — 4/15/2012 @ 6:14 pm

    Did he?

    I’m not saying he didn’t, just that I haven’t seen where he did. If you say he did, I respect you and think that’s probably so.

    Random (fba0b1)

  174. allow s.b. accuse

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  175. Racism police. What a sad little job.

    ethos (4ce5cd)

  176. “I’ve been asking this question for a while and no one has answered it.”

    Random – Complete BS. You have been given answers which you have chosen to ignore due to you built in bias.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  177. Random’s lengthy dissertations on the intelligence of various ethnic groups do leave a nice trail for people to follow should people ever want to allow Patterico of allowing racist comments at his site…

    You mean like Eugene Volokh?

    As I said in my first post on the Harvard e-mail controversy, I believe we should be open to the possibility of genetic racial differences in intelligence, just as we should be open to a wide range of other scientific possibilities. I have not simply been arguing that people should have a First Amendment argument to express such openness. I have been arguing that such openness is in fact sound, and that closing off this possibility in our minds (and in our conversations) cannot be sound, especially given how much scientists have yet to learn about the genetic basis of intelligence.

    Patterico has not expressed any agreement with what I’ve written on that. He has probably various reasons for that, including maybe thinking I’m wrong, that he doesn’t know, that it’s inadvisable to get into it, that he doesn’t care about the debate, etc. But I think he’s to be commended for not having a fear-based, knee-jerk reaction.

    Plus there’s a lot of data. You seem to think I want this to be so. I do not.

    Random (fba0b1)

  178. Random, Charles tried to have his cake and eat it too.

    He noted that Kilgore proved the point about Hot Air’s tolerance for those comments (which is simply a lie… the other folks reacted angrily and were critical of the comments, which were deleted too).

    He also noted that he didn’t endorse the tactic that he was crediting with making the point it didn’t actually make.

    Dustin (330eed)

  179. Random – Complete BS. You have been given answers which you have chosen to ignore due to you built in bias.

    I haven’t even seen anyone try to answer that question after I’ve asked it. But if I’ve overlooked it, great! I’m trying to find the answer.

    Can you direct me to where you or someone else here has answered that question?

    Random (fba0b1)

  180. I hope to meet this “Charles Johnson” someday. Hopefully before I age too much more.

    teapartydoc (46a414)

  181. I’m not saying he didn’t, just that I haven’t seen where he did. If you say he did, I respect you and think that’s probably so.

    Comment by Random — 4/15/2012 @ 6:18 pm

    I was there. He wrote “I wouldn’t have done it that way, but…”

    At which, anyone with any manners recoiled; and yes, it’s an endorsement. Trying to pretend it wasn’t is ridiculous.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  182. Comment by Dustin — 4/15/2012 @ 6:25 pm

    Yeah, I don’t disagree with that. I’m just saying the facts don’t support some type of surreptitious effort to mask those comments as coming from a typical Hot Air conservative commenter. So KT wasn’t a “Moby”. He was an LGF guy trying to make a point, and CJ jumped way too quick at 9:20 am and said, “Gotcha!”

    Although he hadn’t, not reasonably.

    Random (fba0b1)

  183. On Killgore Trout’s Protest Against Racist Comments
    My last statement on a right wing fairytale
    Charles Johnson

    He hath written:

    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/40217_On_Killgore_Trouts_Protest_Against_Racist_Comments

    lumiere (dd3cca)

  184. random – to be fair, this is my characterization of his “Naughty boy, but your point was SO absolutely valid” post he put up when complaining about the racist cesspool of Hot Air comments and the “look see KT’s comments are still up” business.

    He doesn’t rah- rah the method in that post, but finds it (in his twisted way) an excellent proof of something that Charles wishes to prove. That’s an “attah boy” in my world.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  185. You dare to read ANOTHER blog besides LGF?

    You’re BANNED!

    Charles Johnson (069f69)

  186. I was there. He wrote “I wouldn’t have done it that way, but…”

    At which, anyone with any manners recoiled; and yes, it’s an endorsement. Trying to pretend it wasn’t is ridiculous.

    Comment by Dianna — 4/15/2012 @ 6:28 pm

    This is what he said:

    I just took a look at that Hot Air thread, and they’re still making comments about wookies. Some of the names are bloggers who run anti-Muslim blogs. The bigotry is completely out of control.

    I can’t really applaud KT for doing this — I wouldn’t have done it, and didn’t advise him to do it, by the way, to head off the inevitable accusations that I was behind this — but his point is absolutely valid. They’re accepting a disgusting amount of racism and extremism at Hot Air.

    To the degree his point is that Hot Air doesn’t police all the offensive comments on their site, CJ is correct. As I said above, I think that’s a feature, not a bug. It allows for a more robust, honest, uncensored debate. It also may simply be a function of staff limitations on a site that gets several thousand comments a day.

    Since Hot Air doesn’t endorse, and expressly disclaims, responsibility for comments — as does CJ for comments on his site — it’s a lame, hypocritical point.

    But it’s still a rational one, it just doesn’t have the importance CJ would give it.

    Random (fba0b1)

  187. So now it’s a “protest” against racist comments- but it’s KILGORE TROUT’s posts that were supposed to be removed at once.

    LET ME PROTEST CAKE! I BROUGHT YOU A CAKE ! CAKE CAKE LOOK AT ME PUTTING HORRIBLE CAKE ALL OVER THE PLACE! YOU GUYS LIKE CAKE BECAUSE LOOK AT ALL THE CAKE AROUND HERE!

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  188. Charles has a new post up, which implies Killgore Trout did his little experiment and nobody objected.

    Christ, this guy is a sanctimonious liar.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  189. Christ, this guy is a sanctimonious liar.

    Comment by Patterico — 4/15/2012 @ 6:35 pm

    I’m tempted to sign up since I think he lost so many commenters that he now has an open registration policy, but I’m sure I’d be banned so quickly as to make the effort to register not worth it.

    Random (fba0b1)

  190. years ago, i was banned for commenting on lgf for disagreeing on some minor point with johnson. comments at his site totally reflect his views…or else. i walked away and never looked back…never even crossed my mind until seeing this post. why would anyone waste their time arguing with him ?

    el polacko (9353f1)

  191. “But I think he’s to be commended for not having a fear-based, knee-jerk reaction.”

    Random – Picking apart your psycho-babble pseudo-science rants does not represent a fear-based, knee-jerk reaction, sorry to disappoint you. Your continued misrepresentation of “facts” of studies, starting with your rants about anti-depressants on this site just mark you as an agenda obsessed commenter incautious of the truth, rather than the rational, careful observer you would have people think you are.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  192. that’s ‘banned FROM..’ i hate typos.

    el polacko (9353f1)

  193. Charles the day after “A disgraceful display of cake at Hot Air. I wouldn’t have put it there that way, but the fact that the cake was put there that way, proves cake is prevalent. It is not immediately put in a sealed container. SHAMEful cake!

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  194. I’ll give Charles Johnson credit, he just posted about the most intellectually dishonest bunch of bollocks I have ever had the misfortune of reading on the internet from anyone on the left. Mind numbingly ridiculous.

    Pretty sure I just lost 30 IQ points reading it.

    anonymous (4251ee)

  195. Even if no one had objected, which they did an with some enthusiasm, why would anybody be obligated to address a nasty drunken troll? I wouldn’t.

    No one joined in his cake walk.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  196. years ago, i was banned for commenting on lgf for disagreeing on some minor point with johnson.

    lol — Me too.

    comments at his site totally reflect his views…or else.

    Yep.

    Random – Picking apart your psycho-babble pseudo-science rants does not represent a fear-based, knee-jerk reaction

    No it wouldn’t. That would be debating. But there’s not much of that going on, more like dismissive drivel as you posted above and appeal to taboo or something like that.

    with your rants about anti-depressants

    If they worked and didn’t increase suicide rates, they’d be nice. The common sexual dysfunction is just a bonus they offer, I guess.

    Random (fba0b1)

  197. Charles has a new post up, which implies Killgore Trout did his little experiment and nobody objected.

    Christ, this guy is a sanctimonious liar.

    Comment by Patterico — 4/15/2012 @ 6:35 pm

    He knows that’s not true, because a number of LGF posters pointed out the many, many objections. And the disappearance of KT’s nasty little game.

    Damn it, I’m a witness. I was right there. This is just idiotic!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  198. Charles can no longer prove that “no one objected” He has banned so many people on his blog, and deleted so many comments, that the result is logical swiss cheese. He would have to restore all the Savage, Iron Fist, Little Old Lady, Mandy Manners etc. posts to get any integrity back into his blog. That is probably 200-300,000 posts right there.

    Stalin used to do the same thing. Charles learned it somewhere.

    jd2 (40a8c6)

  199. Lets talk about the real reason KT left racist comments in the wee hours of the morning at HA which wasn’t to prove racist comments being allowed by the masthead or racism of its commenters but to smear the site that had become a refuge for ex-lizards after the mass bannings who criticized his master on a daily basis.

    The same thing was done at AoSHQ by Hoops after ace and a few other co-bloggers joined in ridicule of LGF. Not only racist comments but real threats of violence from one Irish Rose.

    anonymous (4251ee)

  200. Listen my friends and you shall hear of the midnight pout of Killgore Trout: (According to CJ)”Our story begins with the election of Barack Obama, America’s first black President.”

    MrPaulRevere (0442fd)

  201. One legendary night, Killgore Trout had a bit too much to drink (that’s what he says, anyway), and got fed up with the disgusting comments he saw being posted and not denounced or deleted at the right wing blog Hot Air.

    I’ve seen it go both ways: degrading racist comments denounced and not denounced. Usually denounced by a small number, and then other commenters denounce the denouncers.

    Killgore had an account at Hot Air, and actually used to be a pretty regular participant in their discussions. So on this legendary evening, he decided to stage a protest against this overt racism. He posted a series of comments with the name he’s known for, “Killgore Trout,” using racial slurs and daring someone to call them out.

    CJ’s being slippery and intentionally leaving the wrong impression. Nothing he said above is inaccurate, but he’s leaving out the teensy-tiny detail that, apparently (does anyone have a link to a contemporaneous denouncing comment?) KT’s comments were denounced, although in his closing comment that night, KT claims they weren’t.

    Random (fba0b1)

  202. Charles can no longer prove that “no one objected” He has banned so many people on his blog, and deleted so many comments, that the result is logical swiss cheese. He would have to restore all the Savage, Iron Fist, Little Old Lady, Mandy Manners etc. posts to get any integrity back into his blog. That is probably 200-300,000 posts right there.

    Mandy Manners was banned too?!?

    No F’n way! I thought she was a lifer.

    Random (fba0b1)

  203. Anonymous. that is true remember the defensemen blog? Where active LGF posters started stalking blogs critical of LGF. Who was that? Hoosier Hoops> Gus 802? Wild Irish Rose? Sharmuta? They were all Moby’s with the wink wink approval of Charles. He contracted out his dirty work.

    jd2 (40a8c6)

  204. Just challenge Charles to define racism. I doubt he would be able to define it in the traditional sense. He will define it in the progressive sense.

    jd2 (40a8c6)

  205. How would you define it, jd2? I’m curious.

    And serious question — if a person believed the science pointed to there being actual, significant differences in frequencies of certain behaviors and qualities, varying with racial group, as a scientific observation, but did not dislike people of different racial groups, would or should that be considered racist?

    Random (fba0b1)

  206. Addendum: Almost everyone would agree with the above. I mean also that the person believes that a certain percentage of the varying frequencies of these behaviors and qualities had a biological component.

    Random (fba0b1)

  207. What KT did to HA was a kneecapping for his boss plain & simple. He wasn’t pissed HA allowed racist comments (they never have) he was pissed that Allah and Ed allowed comments critical of Charles Johnson & LGF

    HA & AoSHQ became the two blogs that recieved most of the exodus of ex-LGF banned so no surprise they were targeted the most by Chuck & his most loyal lackeys.

    anonymous (4251ee)

  208. Racism is a growing habit of hate projected onto a group of people based negative observations of a few members of the group.

    But to some people a black person is not eligible to be a racist.

    jd2 (40a8c6)

  209. Comment by Random — 4/15/2012 @ 6:58 pm

    He’s taunting, and though he was criticized – who is obligated to give him a moment’s notice about HIS dares. Who is supposed to honor his strutting?

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  210. Anonymous, well that’s (yours is) the only explanation that makes any kind of (pathetic) sense at all. Pure spite was the motivation.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  211. Question for you: by what natural mechanism would the brain remain unchanged but bodies change as humans moved into very different geographical niches and were separated from others by tens of thousands of years, interbreeding with different hominid species no less? How would this have happened, in light of genetic drift and natural selection and inter-species admixture?

    I’m actually curious. I’ve been asking this question for a while and no one has answered it. I’m looking for a good answer. This whole topic is something I certainly wouldn’t mind being proved wrong about, so I could return to the view I had most of my life. It’s a nicer view and a comforting view. Alas, it doesn’t match the evidence.

    But prove me wrong. That would be really cool. Maybe genetics is just a bit-player in human abilities.

    “I’ve been asking this question for a while and no one has answered it.”

    Random – Complete BS. You have been given answers which you have chosen to ignore due to you built in bias.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 4/15/2012 @ 6:21 pm

    I haven’t even seen anyone try to answer that question after I’ve asked it. But if I’ve overlooked it, great! I’m trying to find the answer.

    Can you direct me to where you or someone else here has answered that question?

    Comment by Random — 4/15/2012 @ 6:27 pm

    Still waiting, daleyrocks.

    Random (fba0b1)

  212. “That would be debating.”

    Random – Exactly, which you have proven time and again, like a Global Warming Alarmist, you do not engage in. Only your version of the “facts”, “evidence”, “conclusions”, however strained, is acceptable. Thank you again for proving my point.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  213. daleyrocks, in response to my question:

    Question for you: by what natural mechanism would the brain remain unchanged but bodies change as humans moved into very different geographical niches and were separated from others by tens of thousands of years, interbreeding with different hominid species no less? How would this have happened, in light of genetic drift and natural selection and inter-species admixture?

    I’m actually curious. I’ve been asking this question for a while and no one has answered it. …

    you claim this:

    Random – Complete BS. You have been given answers which you have chosen to ignore due to you built in bias.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 4/15/2012 @ 6:21 pm

    So, reiterated and reasked for the third time: daleyrocks, which answers? Where are they?

    Show us them.

    Random (fba0b1)

  214. I mean *I* have given some counterarguments to my own position, including linking to Mike Flynn, the famous scientist behind the “Flynn effect” (the observation that human intelligence is increasing generally, everywhere), and even proposed another mechanism by which the Flynn effect operates other than the assumed better nutrition and education that he usually cites.

    But where has anyone else other than me here provided some kind of intelligible, plausible answer to my question?

    Random (fba0b1)

  215. There is a treehouse at Derb’s house that could use a new tenant.

    Simon Jester (8b9fa1)

  216. If you mean, daleyrocks, that I cite copious scientific research and don’t call my opponents mentally ill scientologists, then yeah, I guess I don’t debate.

    As you understand the term.

    Random (fba0b1)

  217. I’m curious as so many others are how Charles Johnson turned into Captain Queeg. Any insights, anyone?

    I know creationists can be awfully spammy and annoying and they were over there before “the fall.” But he just lost his mind over it. It seemed to set everything in motion towards collapse. then it started to implode like a styrofoam cup at the bottom of the sea.

    I stopped visiting there when the purges began and he was acting bent and obsessed with certain topics of little import or interest to me; especially his fixation with European groups and his (not very convincing )Neo-Nazi panic.

    He became so rigid and paranoid and histrionic. I was wondering if he fell off his bike and on his head.

    Some years ago I visited and wasn’t banned yet, though he might have auto-purged his rolls since that time)

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  218. Anonymous and Sarahw are right that the Midnight Ride was pure spite.

    Lying about it now, though? What’s that? Wet to the knees and viewing the pyramids?

    Dianna (f12db5)

  219. I’m curious as so many others are how Charles Johnson turned into Captain Queeg. Any insights, anyone?

    I think his girlfriend objected to his sanity.

    Also, he lives in San Fransisco or something, doesn’t he? Must be hard to get along.

    Random (fba0b1)

  220. I know creationists can be awfully spammy and annoying and they were over there before “the fall.” But he just lost his mind over it.

    He’s certainly right about the anti-science nature of Creationism. And then fell right into to the anti-science nature of AGW apologism.

    Random (fba0b1)

  221. Turnabout is fair play. Charles seemed to no longer understand that notion after his flake out. He played the “Oooh Ooooh Ooooh Teacher – Look what Bobby is doing, Look what Johnny is saying” game into the ground. How many “KosKids” posts (yes, I admit that I was a regular at LGF prior to getting kicked out b/c I wouldn’t join the witch burning of Robert Spencer and dared say ‘let’s give him the benefit of the doubt’) did he have? Each one carried the clear implication that such sentiment was the norm for DK and that somehow Markos condoned the comments. It’s the exact same game he’s playing now even though he flipped sides. He had some other similarly lame tricks (remember his post about MSM reporter committing ‘rookie mistake’ b/c they said something “begs the question” mistaking the actual meaning of ‘beg the question’?He was right but what an absolutely lame thing to criticize someone about. And that my friends, it CJ in a nutshell. Self-righteous “I keep it real but no one else does other than those agreeing with me” and making mountains out of small or irrelevant indiscretions.

    Since he bans everyone who dares disagree with him or steps out of a very closely monitored posting process, he doesn’t have to deal with much of it anymore. But any site that has even remotely open posting (and a non-trivial amount of traffic) can a target of the game CJ plays. It’s his favorite game other than claiming someone ‘threatened his life/made death threats’ if they happen to say anything about death in regard to a post about him. He’s a drama queen. He’s a sanctimonious blowhard and that’s all he has left (well, maybe that’s not totally fair, he probably would do a pretty decent job running a tech/programming blog).

    I guess I’m violating my own advice by even commenting on this – but CJ needs to just be ignored. He’s a barking little dog with no teeth.

    UvalDuvalCuckoo (f874ae)

  222. Sarahw, he’s definitely autobanned pretty much everyone who ever was active and later backed away.

    Why he went mad? I’ve never known. I know that his usual late-summer pissiness (a notable feature of LGF over the years) dialed up and up and up. I’d counseled a couple people to let it ride, that he’d calm down after the weather broke, but it just kept ratcheting up.

    And he created the baying pack who’d encircle and bait and attack and shred a member. Worse, he sustained and encouraged the behavior by banning the victims.

    I’ve never known why. I never saw a real explanation, or even a strong hint as to a reason. I only know that something made him angry, and that led to a rejection of everything he’d ever seemed to believe.

    Motive, I think, is easy to hare off after, but remains unknowable. I would love to know why, too, but I don’t think I ever will. All we can do is look at the actions, and I’ve always thought that it was because something made him very, very angry, and it was something he could not touch.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  223. CJ “Jumped the Sullivan” long ago.

    njoriole (4af00d)

  224. Also, he lives in San Fransisco or something, doesn’t he? Must be hard to get along.

    Comment by Random — 4/15/2012 @ 7:39 pm

    Ass. He lives in southern California.

    I live in the SF Bay area – and it’s not that freakin’ hard. Ass!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  225. Anyone remember when his stalkers got Zombie banned?

    lumiere (dd3cca)

  226. Ass. He lives in southern California.

    I live in the SF Bay area – and it’s not that freakin’ hard. Ass!

    You’re correcting me and talking about my favorite subject? Even if it is a non sequitur, that’s hot.

    Random (fba0b1)

  227. Charles claims there was no open condemnation at HA the evening of KT’s stunt, a lie of course but he left out one other important factoid-the condemnation he received at LGF by several commenters, 99.9% of whom are no longer there.

    KT ‘s sad little petulant display was the catalyst that kicked off another wave of mass bannings of those who were disgusted by it.

    anonymous (4251ee)

  228. I’m proud of my ban from LFG. I got banned when I called out on his pseudo religion of Global Warming. Never looked back.

    BigFire (71ba92)

  229. I’m proud of my ban from LFG. I got banned when I called out on his pseudo religion of Global Warming. Never looked back.

    Banning dissenters. Very sciency.

    Random (fba0b1)

  230. “So, reiterated and reasked for the third time: daleyrocks, which answers? Where are they?”

    Random – Stop trying to make this thread about you, ya big baby.

    Repeating information for you has not worked before, why should I do it again?

    Answer that, moron.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  231. Shorter daleyrocks: I was lying.

    Random (fba0b1)

  232. Yeah, Chuckles has been on quite the racist-hunting rant lately. A couple weeks ago, he decided to start seeking out anyone and anything through which he could tie racist or bigoted comments to me. And by “tie,” I mean “stretch.” He went so far as to look up people I’ve RTed in the past, and then point out where those people may have said anything elsewhere – in some cases, years ago – that he could twist as offensive.

    It wasn’t enough for him to tweet these breaking discoveries just once or twice. No, he had to do so incessantly. Because I have him blocked, I was unaware of his tweets – that is, until I began receiving dozens and dozens of tweets accusing me of being racist from total strangers with whom I’ve never exchanged a word in my life.

    It was an eye-opening experience to see the quality of Charles Johnson’s followers. With the exception of two of them, many were some of the rudest, most aggressive and vile Twitter users I’ve experienced in a while. When I asked Charles to retract a lie he tweeted about me, the responses were just unbelievable, and prompted me to tweet this:

    I ask @Lizardoid to retract his lie & get 40+ vile tweets: racist, liar, “whores 4 fascism to afford abortions”, “have u been raped” #klassy

    https://twitter.com/#!/Liberty_Chick/status/185828825073057794
    Only two were responsible enough to check my timeline as well as the history of my writing in general, and then speak out to tell others that there was no evidence of my being a racist or bigot.

    I am always up for honest, civil debate from all sides. But there is nothing honest or civil about Charles Johnson or many of his followers. It’s amazing to me that anyone would ever consider him credible (not that anyone does, really).

    Liberty Chick (b021c6)

  233. The fact that Charles, who wielded a banning stick so frequently for real and imagined slights, did not ban Kilgore Trout for trashing another’s blog said more about him that that half-hearted rationalization for the behavior. And set the stage for Hoosier Hoops subsequent run at Ace.

    He would go on to ban “Zombie” for his/her failure to delete comments left by posters that “attacked” Charles on his/her blog. Childish.

    Carolina Girl (7fecac)

  234. Shorter Random – Thar she Blows! Twoof to Powder!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  235. The fact that Charles, who wielded a banning stick so frequently for real and imagined slights, did not ban Kilgore Trout for trashing another’s blog

    Who would ban someone for trashing another’s blog, seriously?

    There are good points to be made against CJ, but that’s just silly. Do you think Patterico goes around and and bans commenter X because he gets into controversy at blog Y?

    Random (fba0b1)

  236. Random likes to dissemble on behalf of the Lizards.

    JD (516dcc)

  237. The fact that Charles, who wielded a banning stick so frequently for real and imagined slights, did not ban Kilgore Trout for trashing another’s blog said more about him that that half-hearted rationalization for the behavior. And set the stage for Hoosier Hoops subsequent run at Ace.

    He would go on to ban “Zombie” for his/her failure to delete comments left by posters that “attacked” Charles on his/her blog. Childish.

    Comment by Carolina Girl — 4/15/2012 @ 8:09 pm

    We couldn’t emphasize this enough: the howling hypocricy offended then, and offends now!

    I simply cannot understand it. I never have, and I never will.

    Charles will never answer Patterico’s six facts honestly, because, well, the truth is not in him.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  238. Liberty Chick @ 236 makes it all too clear why posts like this are so necessary. Call them out publicly, every time.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  239. There are good points to be made against CJ, but that’s just silly. Do you think Patterico goes around and and bans commenter X because he gets into controversy at blog Y?

    Comment by Random — 4/15/2012 @ 8:13 pm

    You are kidding, right?

    Silliness doesn’t keep it from being true. Just…you had to be there to have the experience. Famously, he was demanding that his posters not go to other blogs, except to defend him. He would ban you for visiting other blogs. He’d ban you for saying something he didn’t like over on another blog, if one of his sycophants brought him the word!

    And Zombie was, indeed, banned for not instantly deleting comments made by former LGF posters on his/her blog!

    There are innumerable examples of people being banned for the most ludicrous of reasons.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  240. Famously, he was demanding that his posters not go to other blogs, except to defend him.

    OK, yes, now that you mention it, I do remember that. He’s a very silly person.

    Random (fba0b1)

  241. Liberty Chick-
    I saw what Johnson and his cult followers did to you. He wanted to brand you a “racist” so as to disqualify you from any future employment. He’s doing exactly the same thing to Patterico now by posting his place of employment.

    lumiere (dd3cca)

  242. There are good points to be made against CJ, but that’s just silly. Do you think Patterico goes around and and bans commenter X because he gets into controversy at blog Y?

    I was banned at LGF because of a POST I wrote here at patterico.com. As far as I can recall, I hadn’t even commented at CJ’s site anywhere close in time to the time of my banning. What precipitated my banning was, I wrote a post about Charles’s dishonesty on a particular point. He wrote a post in response that was totally dishonest, and when I went to respond, I found out I had been banned.

    Because of my post.

    He is as tolerant of dissent as any good Stasi agent.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  243. He wanted to brand you a “racist” so as to disqualify you from any future employment. He’s doing exactly the same thing to Patterico now by posting his place of employment.

    Except my place of employment is no secret, and while Charles may wank to fantasies of my being disciplined or fired for telling the truth about his pattern of dishonesty, that just ain’t gonna happen.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  244. I was banned at LGF because of a POST I wrote here at patterico.com.

    I was banned for the usual LGF reason of disagreeing with him about something or other. I remember I hadn’t nearly escalated into irateness or anything like that.

    Not yet, anyway. ;)

    Random (fba0b1)

  245. I’m glad LC mentioned that. Charles has been obsessed with her for some reason. It really does seem like he’s trying to tarnish professional reputations.

    I recall when Hot Air had those planted racist comments, they were selling the website. Who wants to buy a website with kooks saying black people are like monkeys (what Kilgore Trout ‘joked’ about)? I suspect part of the point was to harm Hot Air’s business interests, but there’s no way to know for sure.

    What I do know for sure is these folks dealt low blows shamelessly, and there is no reasoning them into a good faith admission of error. Charles knows exactly what he’s doing. Whatever made him this angry, I hope he works that out.

    Dustin (330eed)

  246. Charles who?

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  247. Sarahw, he’s definitely autobanned pretty much everyone who ever was active and later backed away.

    Why he went mad? I’ve never known. I know that his usual late-summer pissiness (a notable feature of LGF over the years) dialed up and up and up. I’d counseled a couple people to let it ride, that he’d calm down after the weather broke, but it just kept ratcheting up.

    If I remember correctly, “the change” coincided with his suddenly having to change living arrangements, apparently without warning. One day he was complaining about having to suddenly move, a week later he was a flaming liberal and started banning people. I don’t know what set it off but there seemed to be some personal turmoil at the time.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  248. If I remember correctly, “the change” coincided with his suddenly having to change living arrangements, apparently without warning.

    Well I did say I thought it had something to do with a girl.

    Random (fba0b1)

  249. With all these talks about Mobys, I’m listening to Play (1999) — he’s amazingly talented.

    As many left-wing artist dipshits are.

    :P

    Random (fba0b1)

  250. Johnson’s gloating on how he beat down the racists on twitter brought forth this comment from his pal Eric Boehlert:

    @Lizardoid Hey compadre we lost this one. Stop responding – you are making us all look bad. Redirect, reset the agenda … U kno what to do.

    lumiere (dd3cca)

  251. CJ doesn’t have credibility outside of his own gaggle of commenters.

    holygoat (bb0e41)

  252. I was there that night at HotAir. I clearly remember recognizing the names of LGF posters/disciples posting to EACH OTHER about how racist the wookie comment was. Surely it is in the archives.
    But good grief, I acknowledge that there are indeed racists amongst people that vote Republican, just as there are Democrats who advocate, and laugh about raping Michele Bachmann with a broomstick. CJ is a hopeless cause. He suffers from PTSD, which I suspect the onset of which came from being rejected by the family dog.

    sybilll (c2162e)

  253. I’m trying to remember what it was that drove me away. I think it had something to do with Obama. Because right about the time of “the change” he suddenly became an avid Obama supporter and started accusing anyone who was opposed to Obama of being racists. That is how I seem to recall the whole racism thing coming to be.

    Maybe this cranking up of things has to do with the approach of election season now that the other candidates have dropped out and it is Romney vs. Obama.

    So anyone opposed to Obama is a “racist” and that might be his motivation. Maybe he is trying to paint web sites that lean to the right as “racist”.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  254. https://twitter.com/#!/ChukinJivingan/status/191746378819571712

    He bans anyone through a block and report scam he’s running. If you cross him on twitter he will have his cronies ban you and report you as spam abusing twitter’s spam crack down. I’ve had four accounts banned.

    XCitizen10 (35dfe3)

  255. https://twitter.com/#!/ChukinJivingan/status/191746378819571712

    He bans anyone through a block and report scam he’s running. If you cross him on twitter he will have his cronies ban you and report you as spam abusing twitter’s spam crack down. I’ve had four accounts banned.

    What a low-life if that’s true (and it certainly seems in keeping with his character).

    Patterico, that’s a worthy righteous post that needs to be written about, if it checks out.

    Random (fba0b1)

  256. https://twitter.com/#!/Lizardoid/status/190243007272992768

    “”Charles Johnson @Lizardoid

    @MarjorieMoon @Gus_802 @dreggas Two other names on my blocked list: ‘Gus_807′ and ‘SlinkyBewmont’.””

    An example of Charles passing names that are on his “hit list” to his followers.

    There are more, but trust me, he is doing it.

    P.S. the Twitter user @MarjorieMoon deleted her account to hide her involvement.

    Unfortunately we accidentally saved her timeline…

    Slinky Bewmont (11d488)

  257. Can we see these thousands of racist comments at major conservative sites? Does someone have a list?

    Comment by Patterico — 4/15/2012 @ 4:24 pm

    I know I stopped reading comments under news articles about Zimmerman because of the offensive {and sadly, numerous} “chimp out” comments I saw.

    Perhaps this is what they mean, and they just assume that conservatives are posting this hateful crap?

    Amy Shulkusky (67fbd5)

  258. I know I stopped reading comments under news articles about Zimmerman because of the offensive {and sadly, numerous} “chimp out” comments I saw.

    Not sure I even get it. Chimp out? Huh?

    Random (fba0b1)

  259. * * *

    This is a must-read post at Legal Insurrection on how the racial animus angle against Zimmerman has collapsed.

    Following the links is important. Here’s one of the links to get you started:

    ‘In 2010 race-related beating case, George Zimmerman pushed to discipline same officers who investigated Trayvon Martin shooting’

    In late 2010 and early 2011 George Zimmerman, the Hispanic Sanford, Fla., man who shot and killed 17-year-old black teen Trayvon Martin, publicly demanded discipline in a race-related beating case for at least two of the police officers who cleared him after the Feb. 26 altercation, according to records obtained by The Daily Caller.

    In a letter to Seminole County NAACP president Turner Clayton, a member of the Zimmerman family wrote that George was one of “very few” in Sanford who publicly condemned the “beating of the black homeless man Sherman Ware on Dec. 4, 2010, by the son of a Sanford police officer,” who is white.

    I don’t know if Zimmerman’s judgment is the best, but it’s looking increasingly likely to me that not only is he not a racist, when it came to putting himself on the line for others, whether speaking up and speaking out or physically, he’s a courageous damn hero.

    “Uncle Tom” Larry Elder (great guy — corresponded with him once briefly, and he’s all class, in addition to what he says here and his extensive writing — I wish he was even more high profile of a writer and pundit than he is) has more.

    Random (fba0b1)

  260. Well this thread has 262 comments while the anti- thread @ and Lame Goof Flamers has only 212.

    Patterico’s wins!

    MSL (f060a0)

  261. Even if no one had objected, which they did an with some enthusiasm, why would anybody be obligated to address a nasty drunken troll? I wouldn’t.

    Exactly, Sarah.
    You know what people who write outrageously offensive stuff are trying to do, so why does everyone have to jump up and play their game? Why let them control the discussion when you can just ignore them and let them stew in their own futility?

    MayBee (e3ac46)

  262. I can say this. Speaking as a Down Right Mean American. I was banned from LGF back in 2008 but then I found Patterico. When I found Patteico I really liked this place and still make it a daily read because I find it to be a place of reason irrespective of your belief in evolution, Gorebal warming or religion or anything else. It’s just based upon logic and reason.

    A few former LGF folks started a website named LGF 2.0 now renamed Blogmocracy 2.0. that I readily joined and became an admin at, at first I got along with everyone, then when I didn’t, I became “just a troll” and only because I had some disagreements in views with others. I soon realized that 2.0 wasn’t a good place at all (they have their 25 members) it was twice (2x) as bad as LGF even though they claimed it was (2x) as good. These folks were longtime (at that time) regulars at LGF, not like myself.

    So my conclusion is LGF back in the day had some really over the top members. They hate all Muslims and all Liberals. All the problems of society are because of those two groups and being a native of (liberal central) California even though I am a conservative didn’t help my cause. :)

    So in simple terms the vile rhetoric that LGF and the comments used to spew about Liberals is the same vile rhetoric LGF and the comments now spews about Conservatives. Same coin, just the other side.

    MSL (f060a0)

  263. Supposing that thousands of those racist comments by old-time posters are planted by liberals is ridiculous. This is the proof that most of them were not planted.

    Since you have seen the comments now, I’m absolutely justified in saying the following: now you’re being intentionally deceptive.

    Comment by Schmoby — 4/15/2012 @ 4:15 pm

    You keep repeating this line about thousands of racist comments. How was that established? Who counted them etc.?

    CJ said referring to Trout’s posts:

    “his point is absolutely valid. They’re accepting a disgusting amount of racism and extremism at Hot Air.”

    So Johnson said Trout’s posts prove that they “accept racism” at conservative sites. Your claim that Trout wasn’t pretending to be a conservative is irrelevant, even if true, since Johnson was basing his claim on Trout’s comments…made in the middle of the night. Johnson’s point was BS regardless.

    The larger point that the occasional racist post can be Moby’s – and Johnson refuses to acknowledge that – stands as well. Your only response is to keep repeating about the “thousands of racist comments”.

    Gerald A (cc0aaa)

  264. Since you have seen the comments now, I’m absolutely justified in saying the following: now you’re being intentionally deceptive.

    Comment by Schmoby — 4/15/2012 @ 4:15 pm

    Um, no.

    The comments you showed us prove that Hot Air does not agree with Kilgore’s racist comments. And it also doesn’t support your claim that Hot Air is full of thousands of racist comments.

    Repeatedly calling someone a liar when they ask you to back up your assertion is how trolls argue, in my experience.

    Dustin (330eed)

  265. The user calling himself “Schmoby” – who closely resembles the LGF user, Obdicut in his style orlf argument, has chosen an interesting forum handle. As an intentional burlesque of “moby”, the term johnson assigned to “liberal plants”except when he was confidant they were responsible for the racist and eliminationist rhetoric at his own site, it is a possibly unintentional admission that he is being deliberately obtuse on that point, which happens to be the key point in Patterico’s argument that Johnson lacks credibility in the matter of racist comments.

    jummy (e04f21)

  266. CJ digs in.Like MSNBC.

    ethos (4ce5cd)

  267. Charles Johnson is practicing a very old trade.

    pst314 (49d034)

  268. Too much “inside [Little Green]Football” for my taste. Patterico you’re going to great lengths to establish that CJ is a jerk–which is a fact obvious to most sentient human beings. You don’t need to do it–it’s unseemly.

    Mike Myers (dc4fc0)

  269. I wonder if Chucky regrets the “throbbing memo” gif and the role it played in debunking Dan Rather’s hit piece on GW Bush?

    holygoat (bb0e41)

  270. Charles Johnson is the guy who reported on Stacy McCain’s Todd Palin interview with the headline “Todd Palin Meets With White Supremacist.” Little Green Footballs may be safely ignored.

    CrustyB (69f730)

  271. The evidence doesn’t support the claims you make in this post.

    I think all you’ve proved is that you are so upset that there is a relatively popular site that disagrees with you that you will smear them with very poorly thought out unsupported claims.

    I don’t know if it helps my case, but I will point out that I’m perma-banned from LGF*1, heh I’m also perma-banned from Charles’-created astroturfed right wing propaganda site PJMedia*2.

    *1: For attacking an antisemetic Muslim cleric who joined his site the same day I did. Charles didn’t know what we were arguing about and assumed I was a paranoid right winger

    *2: For pointing out that Andrew Breitbart was a dishonest, race-obsessed creep who shouldn’t be emulated.

    Josh Scholar (9cd955)

  272. By the way, I used to rail against the racist comments on PJMedia and argue with the people who posted them. The problem wasn’t that they were never deleted (they weren’t), but that they were rarely argued with, mostly agreed with, and often fanned by the above-the-line authors.

    Yes, they were nicer than the really stupid one line epithets that Charles likes to quote, but they were still horrible.

    The fact is that the level of racism in the right since Obama was elected is shocking. And it’s so prevalent that it’s even being reflected in actual bills, actual laws, actual speeches by politicians. But that would be a very very long argument to make. There isn’t a very direct line to that.

    Josh Scholar (9cd955)

  273. Cj is only interesting to me anymore as a head case.

    Thanks to all, such as Dianna and crosspatch et. al who shared observations about his transformation into a cockroach.

    The moving thing is interesting – yet I wonder. If it’s a relationship rupture that precipitated the change of address, maybe that rupture was related to him going ’round the bend or old quirks just becoming unbearable. for example, a boyfriend who becomes irritable, moody, obsessed, paranoid or malice-driven… I might not wish to live with someone who is spiralling into madness and give the boot before anyone even knows that’s what’s going on.

    My own memory, dim as it is on particulars, retains an impression of a much more gradual shift and I first noticed it as a loss of patience with creationists who just wouldn’t shut up and who came to spam nearly every thread with proofs of intelligent design.

    This was long before the mass purging began in earnest, or the positively CRAYZEE demands about posting disloyally at other blogs or not properly protecting Charles from his naysayers.

    He started making these relentlessly peculiar (and dull by repetition at least) posts about Vlaams baddabingbongblamms or whatever as if his crusade was of any particular relevance to his American readers. (So there are European weirdos aligned against islamists for (possibly) all the wrong reasons. Ok then. There was never any really clear point to it, just these abstruse disquisitions into secret ties! that had little enough relevance to American conservative though

    I had the impression that he had somehow been slighted by his peers and I don’t know where that impression came from. But what flowed seemed like nothing but narcissistic rage.

    I’m wondering if behind the scenes of Blog-club his crazee had gotten him shut out of a money-making scheme or something of that sort.

    It’s clear that he had malice in mind when dealing with his former friends and new rivals. It’s so irrational, though, and his methods even moreso.

    He isn’t really very good at what he does and he makes his “side” squirm a lot. I wonder if he knows that.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  274. Actual bills, actual laws, actual speeches? Horse manure, “Scholar”.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  275. I remember the incident. It appears that Killgore actually was a practicing Moby. He got drunk one night and bragged on LGF.

    Pat (0833d4)

  276. The moving thing is interesting – yet I wonder. If it’s a relationship rupture that precipitated the change of address, maybe that rupture was related to him going ’round the bend or old quirks just becoming unbearable. for example, a boyfriend who becomes irritable, moody, obsessed, paranoid or malice-driven… I might not wish to live with someone who is spiralling into madness and give the boot before anyone even knows that’s what’s going on.

    Why assume it was a “rupture” of a relationship? It might be the other way around. Maybe he moved IN with some hot liberal black chick on the condition that he change his ways with his blog.

    I don’t know if he was breaking up with someone or moving in with someone. But I do seem to remember that the change in tone was coincident with the move.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  277. “Joshua Scholar” is another liar.

    JD (8adb01)

  278. The evidence doesn’t support the claims you make in this post.

    I think all you’ve proved is that you are so upset that there is a relatively popular site that disagrees with you that you will smear them with very poorly thought out unsupported claims.

    Line by line it then. If the claims are unsupported, show where. Show where the evidence doesn’t support the claims. Drive-by insults are not very scholastic, champ. As for your bona fides, being banned isn’t all that difficult anywhere. Act like an Überchump and people finally tire of your crap.

    SPQR: I, too would like to see the evidence that this peerless intellectual has assembled. Remember; he has “scholar” in his handle, so it will obviously not o to dubious sources like MediaMatters and such.

    Uncle Pinky (9ff2f7)

  279. My own memory, dim as it is on particulars, retains an impression of a much more gradual shift and I first noticed it as a loss of patience with creationists who just wouldn’t shut up and who came to spam nearly every thread with proofs of intelligent design.

    This was long before the mass purging began in earnest, or the positively CRAYZEE demands about posting disloyally at other blogs or not properly protecting Charles from his naysayers.

    That is the way I remember it, too. It started with creationists and initially his arguments were actually logical and I supported many of them. They were against the “far out there” creationists who wanted to do things like ban the teaching of evolution in science classes and such. His arguments at that point were reasonable.

    Then he started getting more sensitive to anyone who accepted creationism at any level in any way and started banning people. But the racism thing came, at about the point Obama became the nominee for the Democratic party, I seem to recall, and he started calling anyone who was opposed to Obama a racist. He started posting a lot about connections between Ron Paul, Paul supporters, and Stormfront.

    I think he blew a fuse when Rush Limbaugh said he wanted to see Obama fail. That was in January of 2009, I believe. At that point he started painting everyone on the right who opposed Obama as being racists.

    Now we are in another campaign and I believe he might be slipping into that same mode again.: If you oppose Obama, you are a racist. If you are Republican, you are racist.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  280. I used to enjoy the posts at LGF back in the 2004 thru 2007 (approximately) timeframe, but something happened there… to the site, to the demeanor of most commenters and to Johnson himself that made visits less and less compelling.

    I haven’t been back.

    Colonel Haiku (bcc59f)

  281. I used to enjoy the posts at LGF back in the 2004 thru 2007

    You an me both — although some of the subsequent Creationist posts were kind of righteous too.

    Random (97f484)

  282. Meh, stop with the name calling. Scholar is my surname.

    I did say that it’s a hard thing to argue. It needs an article not an argument in a comment section to make the case.

    Josh Scholar (2231ba)

  283. What I was saying was hard to argue is my claim that racism is seeping into actual politics. For the public part of politics, it’s covert… as I said that would take an article.

    As for the line-by-line on THIS article, I was somewhat fooled by Charles’ slipping the emphasis of the article when he described it.

    Yes the article is wrong in that:

    1) right wing sites are full of racists, and those racists are NOT fakers. Claiming that is bullshit. The birthers are really full of racists. The tea party brought them out of the woodwork pretty heavily too. Mostly whites who are EXTREMELY resentful of blacks even if they don’t all spout direct racism.

    2) claiming that the Trout thing is relevant is pretty dishonest too. It isn’t. True it didn’t prove much about Fox but it also proved less than nothing about Charles – and maybe the fact that you pretended it did is why he acts as if that lie is the point of the post.

    Josh Scholar (2231ba)

  284. I thought Althouse nailed Johnson back in 2009:

    “Personally, I don’t need to go through the exercise of figuring out what happened to Johnson. I’ve avoided him all these years because he seemed too extreme and hateful. Now, he’s fired up about other people being extreme and hateful? And he’s fired up in a way that seems extreme and hateful? I do not need to go there. That was never my scene.”

    lumiere (dd3cca)

  285. I did say that it’s a hard thing to argue. It needs an article not an argument in a comment section to make the case.

    Basically, all you did was state that conservatives are even bigger racists since zippy took office(implicit name-calling). Why do you need an article to accuse people you disagree with of being racists? You managed to make your fatuous remarks quite nicely in this comment section.

    Saint Skittles (721840)

  286. Since Charles can’t defeat any bloggers, he’s just decided he’s just going to defeat the random commenters who post in the middle of the night !

    Way to go, Charles !

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  287. Scholar is my surname.

    Yikes. You’d think that would be something to try to live up to, then.

    I did say that it’s a hard thing to argue. It needs an article not an argument in a comment section to make the case.

    You didn’t even try. You floated in with a whole bunch of pronouncements and a tone of utterly unwarranted condescension. You added nothing of value and humblebragged, to paraphrase: Look how transgressive I am! I’ve been banned by CJ and PJ!!And they were both wrong to do it , because I was right right right!!! More transgressively I’ll smear Breitbart, because I’m so cool I sit by myself at the lunch-table. Conformists.

    You’ve made a number of statements. Back them up or bugger off.

    Uncle Pinky (9ff2f7)

  288. If I remember correctly, “the change” coincided with his suddenly having to change living arrangements, apparently without warning. One day he was complaining about having to suddenly move, a week later he was a flaming liberal and started banning people. I don’t know what set it off but there seemed to be some personal turmoil at the time.

    Comment by crosspatch — 4/15/2012 @ 8:43 pm

    Pam Geller spurned his romantic fellings for her. He threw a pamtrum!

    Saint Skittles (721840)

  289. Skittles, your reading comprehension is low or you missed the comment I made right before yours.

    Josh Scholar (2231ba)

  290. I’m a bit shocked you think calling Breitbart what he was is “transgressive”

    Anyway I got to go to brunch then work

    Bye for now.

    Josh Scholar (2231ba)

  291. The fact is that the level of racism in the right since Obama was elected is shocking. And it’s so prevalent that it’s even being reflected in actual bills, actual laws, actual speeches by politicians.

    Sorry, I totally misread this to mean that the “right’s” bigotry was easily summed up by calling them racists, instead of the impossible task of a well referenced comment illustrating how you came to that conclusion. I can only hope to attain the brilliance you’ve demonstrated explaining your reasoned remarks.

    Chunky definitely erred with regard to your banning.

    Saint Skittles (721840)

  292. Why are you all so mean to the cute “Joshua scholar”? How dare you question his assertions/lies?!

    Racists. Shockingly so. In laws.

    JD (009427)

  293. But JD, Mr. Scholar said my reading comprehension was low![hangs head in shame]

    My ignorance forced me to lash out at his brialliant reasoning. I can’t properly express my bigotry! They’ve yet to create HTML code for a burning cross, white hood and robe, etc.!

    Saint Skittles (721840)

  294. I forgot to add the /sarc tag, lest the little gullible fools crowd link to my comment and accuse Patrick of tolerating racists. Sorry, Patrick!

    Saint Skittles (721840)

  295. I did say that it’s a hard thing to argue. It needs an article not an argument in a comment section to make the case.

    Comment by Josh Scholar — 4/16/2012 @ 10:58 am

    Well that’s the lamest excuse I’ve ever heard. You can write long comments, you can post links, and if you make a compelling or interesting case, you might get the host to summarize your position as a main post (he did one of mine today), or get some other blogger (I think C.J. built on a couple of my ideas in his rebuttal post to this one, or not) — what is the comment section for if not to present your position, plus some proof of it?

    How about start with some examples?

    Random (fba0b1)

  296. KT wasn’t really a “moby.” He never pretended to be particularly conservative on either Hotair or LGF.
    Even if he was, there are too many racist comments left on Breitbart to reasonably believe that every single one of them is a deep cover liberal trying to smear good conservatives. And it doesn’t help when Breitbart.com leaves the comments up for days.

    I’ve spent a few years chatting with conservatives on various forums. I do think they’re often unfairly accused of racism. I would say that the average conservative is closer to MLK’s ideal of judging on “the content of character” than many liberals I’ve met. But let’s be honest, there’s a lot of really questionable commentary that is tolerated, maybe because of conservatives’ sensitivity to being reflexively labeled racist for so long by the left. Look at Derbyshire. He didn’t say anything in his notorious article for Takimag that couldn’t have been inferred from what he was writing for years at NRO and other places. Why did conservatives look the other way for so long?

    Charles Johnson isn’t quite the crusader for truth he thinks he is. He’s more than willing to bend facts or ignore his own side’s misbehavior, whichever side that happens to be at the moment. But he’s absolutely right that right-leaning sites ignore a disturbing amount of real, honest-to-badness racism. Stop pretending racism doesn’t exist on the right.

    Unused (ce0a86)

  297. Watch it, Random! Mr. Scholar will label you reading comprehensionly challenged. It nearly ruined my midday bm!

    Saint Skittles (721840)

  298. “I did say that it’s a hard thing to argue. It needs an article not an argument in a comment section to make the case.

    Comment by Josh Scholar — 4/16/2012 @ 10:58 am

    In other words, you have no “actual laws”, no “actual speeches” or anything else.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  299. In other words, you have no “actual laws”, no “actual speeches” or anything else.

    Comment by SPQR — 4/16/2012 @ 12:29 pm

    He did state that it was “fact”, which is undeniable.

    Saint Skittles (721840)

  300. A very objective observer.

    “Josh Scholar
    11 April 2012, 7:39 pm

    One thing I find funny.

    I have so little respect for internet right wingers that I give myself no more than about 3 minutes to refute any claim I read these days.

    But since the claims and links are invariably 100% bullshit, I never NEED more than that 3 minutes to find out that everything claimed about every link I’m ever handed is wrong.”
    http://hurryupharry.org/2012/04/11/out-mccarthying-mccarthy/

    [note: released from moderation. --Stashiu]

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  301. Bill: I don’t have an immediate link to offer, but apparently that “wanted to charge’ business was something extrapolated from the fact that the officers wrote down manslaughter as the crime they were investigating when they brought Zimmerman in for questioning. What I read is that this is purely a clerical requirement – they have to pick a crime and put it in the blank on their report form.

    I’m wondering how I’m going to search for that bit of information since the google terms i can think of are too broad.

    sarahw (33ef3a)

  302. He did state that it was “fact”, which is undeniable.

    Comment by Saint Skittles — 4/16/2012 @ 12:33 pm

    Well it doesn’t require evidence in that case! I feel so stupid asking for evidence of a fact.

    Random (fba0b1)

  303. I did also read one of the detectives was not fully convinced by Zimmerman’s account, but I haven’t seen what he said or wrote myself.

    sarahw (33ef3a)

  304. oh rats, wrong thread..

    sarahw (33ef3a)

  305. Well since I’m in this thread anyway – crosspatch, I got the idea from you that the move was not welcomed or looked forward to, and that you thought he was going through some emotional turmoil.

    That’s why I thought more “rupture” than “happy move to new love-nest.” Although I suppose both could happen at once.

    Didn’t he get a divorce or something? I have no knowledge of his personal life but I seem to recall hearing that around the time he went off the rails.

    Did he leave PJM because they were all racist and stuff, or did he get kicked out for being in the way/ not producing/ being prima donna or whatnot?

    sarahw (33ef3a)

  306. Ok, trying to answer my own questions I ran across this: http://dennisthepeasant.typepad.com/dennis_the_peasant/2009/09/influence-angst-and-charles-johnson.html

    Madness he thinks is the wrong explanation.

    I don’t see how personality disorder doesn’t at least squeak into it, though.

    sarahw (33ef3a)

  307. “I’m wondering how I’m going to search for that bit of information since the google terms i can think of are too broad.”

    SarahW – I linked an Orlando Sentinel piece about it responding to LN Smithee in another thread. The Sanford Police Chief explained their procedures, explained Detective Serino (?) did not want to charge Zimmerman, but the media decided filling in the box on the incident form meant something different. Pure media malpractice.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  308. Well since I’m in this thread anyway – crosspatch, I got the idea from you that the move was not welcomed or looked forward to, and that you thought he was going through some emotional turmoil.

    That’s why I thought more “rupture” than “happy move to new love-nest.” Although I suppose both could happen at once.

    Didn’t he get a divorce or something?

    Yeah, maybe it was the divorce thing that led me to believe he was suddenly kicked out back then. Maybe his change in tune is payback. You know, like maybe like Bill Maher going all wacko left after breaking up with Ann Coulter. Maher was actually worth watching back in the 1990′s. Wonder if Maher does that just to piss off Coulter.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  309. He mentions Charles divorce, his non-standout leadership qualities, and Charles confusion about his own influential powers.

    He concludes:

    I suspect the root cause of Johnson’s resentment towards his old pals is based on his firm belief that he should be leading them. Or, more accurately, that they should have understood that he was Charles Johnson and quietly stepped in behind him.

    His former friends seem to be equating Charles’ continuing 2004 mindset with madness. I think that’s a stretch at best and a mistake at the worst. I would suggest he’s a confused middle-aged man who is watching his last shot at being something slip away. And, as he is confused as to the what and why, his response is to lash out at those he feels have betrayed him by refusing to toe the Charles Johnson line.

    sarahw (33ef3a)

  310. Well it doesn’t require evidence in that case! I feel so stupid asking for evidence of a fact.

    Comment by Random — 4/16/2012 @ 12:35 pm

    It’s very troubling that you’re requiring proof of his stated “fact”. It may even be “racist”, but I don’t know how to come to that conclusion without some sort of evidence. Obviously, I’m unable to rise to his intellectual level. I can’t understand teh chunkster intentionally excluding this kind of wisdom at LGF.

    Saint Skittles (721840)

  311. Thanks, Daleyrocks. I likely read that article through your link in the first place.

    sarahw (33ef3a)

  312. It was Andrew Breitbart’s belief that something or someone got to Charles, and indeed, CAIR brought the FBI to his door once.

    As for PJM, several who were there at the founding said that CJ sold his share because he didn’t like the direction it was taking, but there was no animosity.

    Nobody cares if someone changes political views, but for CJ to aggressively attack and smear those who helped him get on the map is unethical and shameful.

    CJ's Bathroom Fan (9d5814)

  313. Don’t forget that PJM started off as a new advertising cooperative for bloggers and then morphed into an aggregation/videoblogging site.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  314. CJ sold his share because he didn’t like the direction it was taking, but there was no animosity

    I can easily believe that he announced he was unhappy with the direction of PJM. I can easily believe his partners in that venture would frame his departure as gracefully as possible, and actually wish him very well.

    However, I don’t believe he himself parted without animosity. Not a minute do I. I think he probably carried a great deal of resentment at PJM taking any different tack from one proposed by himself.

    Certainly in hindsight, that is.

    SarahW (33ef3a)

  315. However, I don’t believe he himself parted without animosity.
    No way to know what was goes on in the mind of a paranoid brasnapper.

    CJ's Bathroom Fan (9d5814)

  316. *pimf fail*

    CJ's Bathroom Fan (9d5814)

  317. Charlie the goat fugger Johnson is mentally ill.

    He is.

    Gus (36e9a7)

  318. #265
    Hey Bar! I see you forgot to mention your racist comments about “wetbacks” and Obama and KFC when you were at LGF 2 you phony bastard.

    Pythias (89e6b0)

  319. Why do I think Pythias is a clown?

    JD (009427)

  320. Shut up JD. See comment 197
    Bar represented the asshole wing of LGF2.

    Pythias (89e6b0)

  321. Because, STFU. Well done.

    JD (009427)

  322. No way to know what was goes on in the mind of a paranoid brasnapper.

    Comment by CJ’s Bathroom Fan — 4/16/2012 @ 1:50 pm

    True. However one can make an educated guess. :)

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  323. I Married A Sludge Pump” makes somebody named “Bar” an a-hole? I don’t get it, and I don’t think I want to.

    CJ's Bathroom Fan (9d5814)

  324. It proves you are racist. Duh.

    JD (009427)

  325. Why are you all so mean to the cute “Joshua scholar”? How dare you question his assertions/lies?!

    Sorry, JD. Must’ve gotten a bad clam at lunch and just didn’t feel like stomaching anymore unsupported, conceited crap from spoiled little schmucks.

    Didn’t realize he was one of your toys, and apologize for chasing him off. Will try to lure him back.

    Heeeere, scholar scholar scholar. Here boy. Lookit all de silly-willys pointing out that CJ is an insufferable ass who talks nothing but rot. Raarrr raaar raaar, gum them savagely with your milk-teeth. Dere’s a good scholar-wholar.

    Uncle Pinky (9ff2f7)

  326. My ‘account’(didn’t know I had one)at LGF was blocked by Johnson himself for a mildly critical comment – so mild, it was almost a compliment. but he left up the responsive comments by his syncophants. It was at that point that I concluded that he was too wierd to matter.

    Jim O'Sullivan (0c2de6)

  327. Heya i am for the first time here. I found this board and I to find It truly helpful & it helped me out much. I am hoping to present something back and aid others like you helped me.

    Online Camping Supplies (fb7ec2)

  328. @326 Jim O’Sullivan

    Johnson would have been right at home in Stalin’s U.S.S.R. circa 1937-38.

    Travis (f413cc)

  329. Why did Joshua Scholar scurry away? What happened to Schmoby?

    JD (becb30)

  330. Well, we can all agree on ONE thing that Charles Johnson is correct about…we need to re-elect Obama in order to stop Mitt Romney !

    Ha, ha, ha.

    (Oy vey.)

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  331. The fact is that the level of racism in the right since Obama was elected is shocking. And it’s so prevalent that it’s even being reflected in actual bills, actual laws, actual speeches by politicians.
    Comment by Josh Scholar — 4/16/2012 @ 9:37 am

    – Politicians, since the election of ’08, have enacted laws that discriminate on the basis of race? Please cite …

    Icy (ad6a1f)

  332. Why did Joshua Scholar scurry away?

    Sorry, JD. Guess we broke your toy.

    This is why we can’t have nice things.- Mallory Archer

    Uncle Pinky (9ff2f7)

  333. “CJ sold his share because he didn’t like the direction it was taking, but there was no animosity”

    Are you sure? It’s been a long time, but I vaguely remember him him saying some harsh things about Pajamas Media, things impugning the character of its owners.

    pst314 (672ba2)

  334. Hello there, simply become alert to your blog via Google, and located that it is really informative. I’m going to watch out for brussels. I will appreciate if you proceed this in future. Many other people will likely be benefited from your writing. Cheers!

    NC accessories (2a149f)

  335. I do not know, but something about this bothers me…. i will sleep on it and tell you the moment i’ve figured out what it is

    roof repair columbus ohio (a2d4a4)

  336. Great issues altogether, you simply received a new reader. What might you suggest about your publish that you just made some days ago? Any positive?

    wie bekomme ich eine freundin (b12fc7)

  337. You are in reality a good webmaster. The site loading velocity is incredible. It seems that you are doing any distinctive trick. In addition, The contents are masterwork. you’ve done a excellent process on this matter!

    Burgaw N.C. Wedding Photography (2a149f)

  338. I simply couldn’t leave your web site prior to suggesting that I actually loved the usual info a person supply in your visitors? Is going to be back often to investigate cross-check new posts

    cheap oakley m frame sunglasses (c88d3e)

  339. Johnson has now used the very racist word he attacked Limbaugh for using.

    http://bluecollarphilosophy.com/2012/04/charles-johnson-uses-racist-slur-to-describe-catholic-nuns/

    To refer to Catholic nuns of all people. Rank hypocrisy.

    Blue Collar Todd (c1b0e5)

  340. Usually I don’t read post on blogs, but I would like to say that this write-up very pressured me to check out and do it! Your writing taste has been surprised me. Thank you, very great article.

    You Pull It (9372e8)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.9037 secs.