Patterico's Pontifications

2/7/2012

Colorado, Minnesota and Missouri… oh, mzzzzz

Filed under: 2012 Election — Karl @ 5:00 pm

[Posted by Karl]

No delegates, just expectations and momentum, the intangibles open to interpretation.” OK, here’s a little more.

Interpret.

(And here are your results links for CO, MN and MO.)

–Karl

188 Responses to “Colorado, Minnesota and Missouri… oh, mzzzzz”

  1. Ding!

    Karl (8cdbad)

  2. soon we will not have
    Tricky Dick Gingrich to kick
    around any more

    Colonel Haiku (a3006f)

  3. the trench is dug within our hearts and mothers, children, brothers, sisters torn apart

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  4. Col,

    I dunno who that benefits.

    Karl (8cdbad)

  5. the world will be a duller place, Karl…

    Colonel Haiku (a3006f)

  6. show me whatcha got
    missouri colorado
    minnesota… meh

    Colonel Haiku (a3006f)

  7. Col (5),

    Fundamentally, yes.

    Karl (8cdbad)

  8. Your contempt for places where you know Mitts will not dare well is palpable.

    JD (c32343)

  9. Dare?!? Where Mitts will not do well

    JD (c32343)

  10. Colonel Haiku deserves to be skullraped.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  11. Ron Paul’s doing really well in Minnesota so far

    how racist is that?

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  12. The most electable candidate list the bellwether State of Missouri.

    JD (c32343)

  13. Lost

    JD (c32343)

  14. In MN, the only big county not reporting so far is St. Louis(Duluth). No need to stay up Santorum and Paul big, Romney and Gingrich not, in that order.

    Wow.

    Pattern says turnout will be high.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  15. my little brudder in Minnesota said he received a couple desperate calls from Romney people trying to get him to haul his ass 45 minutes to a caucus site – he said he told em y’all must be pretty worried if you’re calling me

    and they laughed

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  16. MO showed us, Greasy Sleazer rejected. 63% reporting Santorum 55%, Suckwind 25%.

    So goes the nation.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  17. Early results: a Santorum sweep(?)!!!

    Icy (83a940)

  18. this is an excellent article about how clueless Mr. Governor Romney is betimes

    don’t get stuck on stupid Mr. Governor Romney we might need you to actually be a for reals candidate before this is over

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  19. 15. Sounds like he was polite tho. I only had a 10 minute drive but the sitter is a half hour past that. Just got the blessed cherub to bed.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  20. yes he’s unfailingly amiable – what’s funny is I found out today he’s actually on Team Mitt

    he’ll go vote in march at the for reals primary

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  21. Happyfeet – that doesn’t count. It isn’t on his website.

    JD (c32343)

  22. my bad

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  23. HA!!!

    Icy (83a940)

  24. Based on this night, I can guarantee WI will follow suit. They are more conservative than MN.

    My siblings especially, 3 of 4, make me look like a squish.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  25. Wisconsin is where they made that poor guy drink urine and tortured him with pliers – you know – down there

    ikes

    it was on drudge today

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  26. 25. I don’t have to look, gots to be Adams-Friendship, center of state, inbred hillbillys.

    In Milwaukee they just kick ‘em to death.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  27. In MN, county by county the same story, same order.

    Ramsey County slightly different, heavily Catholic, I used to live in the 4th east of St. Paul. Paul and Santorum switch places.

    Very unlike MN, a virtual consensus.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  28. Poor commies, almost feel sorry for them:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greece-theres-no-more-left-to-cut-6660306.html

    Greece’s economy is contracting 7%, year-on-year, but to meet their goals of austerity for the bailout package, they need to grow at 9%.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  29. I much prefer this, to having nomination be decided after Iowa, like usual. Resembles democracy somewhat more.

    The Sanity Inspector (94bc34)

  30. “No delegates”

    Obviously, McBain’s spin, they knew this was to be a downer evening.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  31. Watching Matt Drudge is torture enuff.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  32. Eww, Santorum. I can’t believe they can still say that on broadcast TV.

    In MN, Ron Paul got 27%. Everyone’s crazy uncle is gaining traction?

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  33. Santorum doesn’t give a very good speech. I mean first of all the delivery. Something about it sounds kind of forced.

    The content seemed rambling and unfocused. Part of it he attacked Romney and part he attacked Obama. Maybe that was calculated since he hardly has the nomination locked down. A line he repeated several times about Obama doesn’t strike me as something that will catch fire: “He thinks he knows better”. Huh? It’s as lame as anything Romney says for crying out loud.

    Gerald A (cc0aaa)

  34. Let me get this straight Mooslimes can have 20-60 kids but yet Catholics need to get over their opposition to Birth Control?

    And yes turdlett effective Birth Control is abstinence.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  35. Hey, people saying “Moochelle Obama” and “Mooslimes” are super-helpful to the Republican cause. Thanks, tone-deaf idiots!

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  36. 33. Santorum cannot afford a stable of a dozen speechwriters and given all the good its doing McBain he’s probably happy he spends that portion of his budget on getting his whites laundered.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  37. Obama does ‘think he knows better’; but you’re right, it’s a line best used sparingly.

    Icy (83a940)

  38. Uh Doh, the big tent isn’t big enough for you, me, and carlitos. Ideas?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  39. Gerald A,

    Santorum can deliver a speech. His speech in IA was quite good. But tonight’s was unfocused, particularly bad since this was an opportunity to reintroduce himself. I suspect a hangover from his family drama, but he’s got to play the hand he’s dealt better.

    Although “He thinks he knows better” doesn’t resonate with you, it’s a populist approach to addressing Obama’s progressivism, which might appeal to blocs that aren’t moved by purely ideological critiques.

    Karl (8cdbad)

  40. “DohBiden” is a random comment generator, designed to ridicule conservatives. It was programmed by German college students and they have since left the country. If Patterico had a clue, he’d ban this code-driven vandalism.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  41. What the?

    Why should I be banned?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  42. Carlitos is the same idiot who ridiculed Glenn Beck until he admitted he is for Romney.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  43. I’ve never been a fan of how Santorum presents himself, but I’ve also never been a fan of grading leaders that way.

    I have some egg on my face for thinking this guy was obviously not going to take off as a candidate. While I don’t agree with Santorum on a lot of things, I respect him for being upfront about what he represents.

    I wish someone who I agreed with had some of the things Santorum’s got, and I’m glad we have an active primary and hope it’s actively in contention for all 50 states if not the convention, too.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  44. #

    Carlitos is the same idiot who ridiculed Glenn Beck until he admitted he is for Romney.

    Comment by Dohbiden — 2/7/2012 @ 8:29 pm

    Please, pretty please, post a link to your evidence for this claim.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  45. Can you prove that I’m racist against muslims?

    No you can’t.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  46. Can you prove that I’m racist against muslims?

    Why do you say “Mooslimes?” Are you 8 years old, or are you a bigot?

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  47. I’m a bigot?

    I just get angry that the left don’t try to force their views down muslim’s throats.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  48. It was a multiple choice between

    a) I am 8 years old
    and
    b) I’m a bigot.

    You failed.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  49. And you are a hypocrite I’m sure if you saw catholics forcing their views down someone’s throat you would spew hatred at them.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  50. I’m told Rasmussen has Santorum polling ahead of Obama, and is the only GOP candidate currently doing so. Is that accurate?

    Wow did I call this one wrong.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  51. #

    And you are a hypocrite I’m sure if you saw catholics forcing their views down someone’s throat you would spew hatred at them.

    Comment by Dohbiden — 2/7/2012 @ 8:44 pm

    “Forcing their views down someone’s throat” has cost the Catholics a couple of billion dollars so far.

    And you still are incoherent.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  52. I do not know if it was.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  53. And you are still an incoherent anti-muslim bigot?

    Just admit your a hypocrite.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  54. I’m a bigot but Rico hasn’t banned me before now.

    43. Santorum’s so-con platform is as functionally insane as Ronaldus Paoulus’. The Right is half-way to united on fiscal policy, why even go there?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  55. Careful carlitos will get you banned for farting.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  56. Did you hear that, Dohbiden? You’re a KRAUT!

    Icy (83a940)

  57. Yes he mocks me for being German.

    But the romneybot calls me a bigot.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  58. Ich glaube nicht, spotten die Menschen Deutsch

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  59. Votre un con.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  60. I’m told Rasmussen has Santorum polling ahead of Obama, and is the only GOP candidate currently doing so. Is that accurate?

    Wow did I call this one wrong.

    Comment by Dustin — 2/7/2012 @ 8:47 pm

    Me too. I know the feeling.

    I don’t want a Theocrat in the White House, but Santorum swept the night and had an amazing success, especially if Colorado holds.

    Romney’s night blew chunks.

    And Newt’s still in the game, although it’s hard to call this good for him.

    Random (38d59c)

  61. 52% of Catholics think the Church should pay for their employees contraception.

    One drawback to assigning religion by birth.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  62. I don’t want a theocrat in the white house unless he is a muslim.

    What you meant to say.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  63. You simply cannot make this stuff up:

    “Newt Gingrich wins the caucus vote in Bent County, Colorado.”

    Icy (83a940)

  64. French? Seriously?

    DohBiden, I know that you are slow, so I will elaborate. I never “mocked you for being German.” That didn’t happen. You imagined it.

    I was being ridiculous and hypothesized that “German college students” had created a comment-bot to make conservatives look dumb, calling it “DohBiden” (or sometimes “Dohbiden”).

    Je suis desole que vous nes comprenez-pas. But that is your problem.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  65. Glad I’m waitin’ up on the dryer and not just the reprobates in Denver.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  66. You stereotyped germans.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  67. Gingrich finished 4th in Minnesota, is running 3rd in Colorado, and didn’t even make the ballot in Missouri.

    Not your best outing, Newt, old chap!

    Icy (83a940)

  68. No it wasn’t.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  69. And not only that Gingrich is a RINO.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  70. “Newt Gingrich wins the caucus vote in Bent County, Colorado.”

    Nice!

    Random (38d59c)

  71. I have some egg on my face for thinking this guy was obviously not going to take off as a candidate. While I don’t agree with Santorum on a lot of things, I respect him for being upfront about what he represents.

    Me too. I’m not happy about Santorum’s social conservatism, but his election would certainly derail Obama’s creeping deconstitutionalization. Maybe I resigned myself to Romney too soon.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (ae852d)

  72. Nice for enablers but not nice for the rest of us.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  73. Perchance they’ll all drop and we can start over?

    Ring Simon Cowell.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  74. DohBiden,

    The question that you didn’t answer:

    Why do you say “Mooslimes?”

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  75. I’m not a big fan of Muslims.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  76. Thanks. Very honest. I’d ban you from my website in a minute, but Patterico evidently thinks that bigots like you add value.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  77. I’m sorry.’

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  78. My goal is not to ever again respond to the bigot DohBiden, despite his comedic value as a completely clueless nitwit / conservative parody. If I fail, I apologize.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  79. Carlitos is the same idiot who ridiculed Glenn Beck

    Ridiculing Glenn Beck is rarely idiotic.

    Milhouse (9a4c23)

  80. My goal is to ignore the Romneybot hypocrite/Faux conservative who wants to ban people.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  81. Maybe but it is idiotic to all of a sudden praise Beck.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  82. And Newt’s still in the game, although it’s hard to call this good for him.

    Comment by Random —

    That’s fair.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  83. The gift that keeps on giving:

    “With 26.3% reporting, Newt Gingrich’s vote total in the Colorado GOP Caucus is 666.”

    Uh-oh!

    Icy (83a940)

  84. Newt is satan and I’m his jooooooooooish henchmen.

    :wink:

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  85. It’s difficult to see tonight’s (apparent) three-state sweep by Santorum as something other than another nail in the coffin of Newt Gingrich’s White House aspirations. Romney may have been dinged, but the Speaker got his bell rung, big time!

    Icy (83a940)

  86. Amen.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  87. Denver is now in 100% and McBain has jumped in front by 2%.

    Northern counties seem to be for Romney. Close contest, clothes are hung.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  88. Newt did fare quite poorly, and it’s amazing how poorly Mitt did. He’s losing places he won in 2008, too. And he’s outspending everybody else.

    Newt needs to stay in this and I’m going to hope for a brokered convention.

    Just as I predicted, as soon as it wasn’t one state with tons of time to plaster the state with ads, Romney would suddenly lose most of his potency.

    I think what we’re seeing is that things are very volatile. I wouldn’t count any of these three out. Quite a bad day for Newt and Mitt, but those who have said Romney is inevitable are incorrect.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  89. I think Mr. Governor Romney’s blatherings about “the poor” were exceedingly unhelpful for him

    he really does look for all the world like he doesn’t get out much

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  90. “FIDO says it couldn’t be any better.”- NASA PAO, STS-1, 1/14/81

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  91. And Gingrich is now only .4% ahead of Nor Luap for third place in CO? Eek!

    Regardless of North or South, it looks like mostly rural counties remain, which could favor Santorum.

    Icy (83a940)

  92. I think Mr. Governor Romney’s blatherings about “the poor” were exceedingly unhelpful for him

    he really does look for all the world like he doesn’t get out much

    Comment by happyfeet

    Sure. I also wonder how Newt would be doing if he had never strayed from talking about the issues.

    Some say (and he says) he’d be doing worse. I doubt it.

    A bit of a shame. I expected a much better contest from the GOP. Romney versus some kind of awesome Goldwater governor. Instead, I don’t think we really have a clear choice at all.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  93. Newt needs debates like a fish what wants to get to a liquor store needs a bicycle

    when he’s not debating he’s utterly lost in an almost early onset kind of way

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  94. People are poor in places like Detroit because of democrap policies.

    It isn’t the republicans fault.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  95. Right on cue, it’s Disco Stu and His Ad Hom Spew!

    Icy (83a940)

  96. Crappyfeet knows about Ad hom.

    But he is spot on about Romney.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  97. 93.Newt needs debates like a fish what wants to get to a liquor store needs a bicycle

    – Newt needs to hire John “Governor Mormon” King as his personal whipping boy/attack dog.

    Icy (83a940)

  98. 71% reporting: Santorum with a slim lead over Romney in Colorado.

    Icy (83a940)

  99. Damn, poor Romney must be incredibly good at concession speeches by now. What’s 4000 concession speeches do to a man’s psyche?

    On the other hand, I think he could take Harry Reid on for Senate in a few years. A man can dream.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  100. On the other hand, the NRA would actually be justified in endorsing Reid then.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  101. :roll: I have a feeling I will be banned.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  102. If it hasn’t happened yet . . .

    Icy (83a940)

  103. Santorum wins in Colorado. It’s a three-state sweep!

    Icy (83a940)

  104. Santorum wins in Colorado. It’s a three-state sweep!

    Comment by Icy

    Congrats to your guy. That’s impressive, considering what he’s been up against, particularly financially, but in a lot of respects.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  105. Ron Paul will pose nude for playgirl.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  106. The left have successfully dumbed down our kids which is why I’m all for private school it doesn’t have to be religious but based upon common sense.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  107. I’m not happy about Santorum’s social conservatism, but his election would certainly derail Obama’s creeping deconstitutionalization.

    – Brother Brad, I’m wondering what specific social conservatism issues there are in Santorum’s platform that make you unhappy. Mr feets, feel free to chime in as well.

    Icy (83a940)

  108. Thank you Dustin. And all joking aside — and Lord knows I’ve done my fair share — I find quite a few really good things to like about Newt’s platform and ideas; BUT, the man simply does not have “it”. He is not electable on a national scale. Mitt does have “it”, I think, which is why — even though he is not (just like he wasn’t four years ago) my preferred candidate — I have gone out of my way to defend him against unreasonable attacks.

    Unfortunately — and ironically, given the predeliction of many commenters here to bemoan the ‘fact’ that there are no ‘true conservatives’ in the race — it seems that Santorum’s main drawback is a perception that he is too conservative to win in the general. This is 100% the reason why Ann Coulter has flip-flopped to become Romney’s biggest cheerleader. Having said that, I do agree with her (to a limited extent) that Romney does have some conservative bonafides.

    For whatever it’s worth, I think that Santorum has the best overall platform AND has been the most consistent candidate in adhering to conservative principles. What that commitment and consistency will earn him remains to be seen.

    Icy (83a940)

  109. 108. ” Mitt does have “it” ”

    Ten wins, 20 losses. What ever ‘it’ is leave it alone.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  110. 108. ” that there are no ‘true conservatives’ in the race ”

    Yeah and single career girls complain all the best men are taken. You drove them away when they were free, you fat-assed, emasulating scolds, ‘eff you.

    What the hell, ABR, Santorum it it is.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  111. 25. Bad news Feets, anyone with a job job in Somerset commutes to the Cities for work.

    http://www.twincities.com/ci_19858295

    Me, I’d be wary of the tongue and lower-lip-pierced cattle. Steer clear of Starbucks.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  112. Muslims are exempt from Obamacare………………I wonder why that is?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  113. It means “Not Romney” just like a hilarious, delegate-rich Paul victory would in Virginia.

    Not Romney is a very popular guy.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  114. Icy, Mitt has no charisma at all. None.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  115. Santorum is too kooky to win in the general. Opposition to Griswold just isn’t normal. ALso. he’s not a conservative, so there’s that to consider on our side.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  116. Outline for us what you deem to be kooky.

    JD (c32343)

  117. She is a catholicphobe.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  118. 113. You and Dusting are right Sara, the Newt will rise again in the South.

    Broker, broker, broker,…

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  119. forget Newt for a minute. I hope it’s clear I hate him too, just not as much as the others.

    There’s nothing wrong with conducting your life according to the teachings of the Catholic church.

    There’s something terribly wrong with asserting the government should interpose specific Catholic teachings on the public.

    Again, this is reality. Opposition to Griswold isn’t normal and will not be accepted in the general – and he shouldn’t be accepted by conservatives, because he’s not one.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  120. Also Newt is Catholic, so there.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  121. Neither is your boy Newt.

    But point taken.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  122. There’s something terribly wrong with asserting the government should interpose specific Catholic teachings on the public.

    Please show us where he has advocated for this govt theocracy you speak of.

    JD (c32343)

  123. There’s a new thread up, but specifically on the contest:

    Of course Romney is losing places he won in 2008. Last time, he was viewed as NotMcCain. Now he’s viewed as McCain. So he’s going to lose in more conservative venues he won four years ago. He’ll also end up winning less conservative venues where he lost in 2008.

    Karl (8cdbad)

  124. See his remarks on Griswold, JD. He couldn’t possibly get elected after that.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  125. Was referring to SarahW calling Santorum a faux conservative.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  126. Ok. Griswold kooky. That is the extent of your position?

    JD (c32343)

  127. She makes a good point though.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  128. I think his eagerness to reinstate DADT is extremely weird, which is evidenced by him being the only R candidate taking this extreme stance, which is extreme

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  129. Hey Crappyfeet DADT should apply to you too.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  130. Rick Santorum said contraception is “not ok.” Kooky.

    snaps (5cb04e)

  131. Icy,
    I don’t like Santorum’s positions on gay rights, illegal drugs, abortion, flag “desecration” — pretty much the standard Libertarian beliefs. I think these are areas of individual liberty that the government should not interfere with. (Although abortion is a special case, since the topic is the inception of life and when should it be protected). But Santorum’s odds of enacting those beliefs into law are small, especially if the Senate remains Democratic.

    What I do like is Santorum’s opposition to global warming hype, support of fossil fuels, and opposition to Obamacare. He’d be a lot more effective on the latter than the conflicted Romney. He’s more skeptical of government takeovers in the name of advancing rights.

    Santorum would certainly appoint Supreme Court judges that would reverse the Court’s leftward tilt. He wouldn’t appoint judges who tell other countries not to look to the Constitution. With Romney, who knows what he’d do?

    If Romney is nominated I plan to vote for him because the deconstitutionalization of the United States is reaching a critical point beyond which it may be impossible to return. But I think Santorum has a better chance, because he has a natural base of support. Romney has no such corresponding base. I still don’t know what he stands for.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (336384)

  132. Santorum was, while he was in the Senate, a big government conservative, in the mode of GWBush.
    He’s always been a social conservative, but as to Griswold, he seems to have been criticizing the reasoning, not the result–or more precisely, he apparently thinks contraception is a bad choice, but as a practical matter it should not be banned by law. (He may or may not think the government should have at least the theoretical power to ban it. He certainly thinks laws banning adultery, sodomy, etc should be valid.) So while he obviously adheres to, and argues for, Catholic teaching, I don’t think he can be accused of trying to impose it on everyone else.

    JBS (46fd97)

  133. Isn’t “snaps” kind of like “snips” fro awhile back?

    Simon Jester (7ab80f)

  134. Snaps is a jew hating bastard.

    Snaps is tifosa.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  135. Nope. He said Griswold was bad law.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  136. He believes the government has an inherent right to restrict use of contraceptives.

    Whatever your own opinion or practice regarding contraception itself, the notion that Griswold is bad law will never fly in the general.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  137. Griswold isn’t going to be overturned anyway, so it’s nothing to worry about.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (336384)

  138. The kooky is, though. It will kill him in the general. It’s just the truth.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  139. yes I think it’s up to Mr. Newt or Mr. Mitt to save us

    chop chop, mofos

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  140. Actually, his apparent support of “intelligent design” is a good deal more “kooky” than his attitude to Griswold. In the latter he’s simply adhering to Catholic teaching mixed with social conservative ideas about the need for government to forbid “socially harmful” acts. And even he has backed away from saying that government should actively ban contraceptives.

    JBS (46fd97)

  141. My fondness for carlitos proceeds apace.

    Leviticus (c5a418)

  142. Sarahw,

    I disagree with your analysis of Santorum’s position on Griswold. Santorum said he would not have voted for the Griswold law that restricted contraceptives or for the Texas sodomy law, but he believes States have the right to pass such laws. He also said he objects to creating a Constitutional right to privacy (as the Griswold Court did) in order to invalidate such laws. I think he’s absolutely right.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  143. JBS – a minor quibble, but it seems less of a backing away, as opposed to a clarification of what he meant.

    JD (c32343)

  144. plus advocating a non-right to privacy will have coattails in November baby

    people lick that stuff up

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  145. DRJ–The Court did not create a “right to privacy”–it recognized that one exists, and that it is protected just like all the other rights which exist but which the Founders didn’t explicitly list in the Constitution.

    Do you agree or disagree with this: “What you and your spouse/ significant other do in the bedroom is (except for acts of abuse, etc. that are covered by general criminal laws against violence anyway) none of the government’s business.”

    JBS (46fd97)

  146. I would not have voted to ban contraceptives is this year’s I am not a witch I think

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  147. JBS,

    I subscribe to Justice Stewart’s dissenting opinion.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  148. Rick Santorum said contraception is “not ok.” Kooky.
    Comment by snaps — 2/8/2012 @ 7:24 am

    – And the bill he would sign into law, or the policy he would enact in line with that stance is WHAT?

    Icy (aa68a6)

  149. But Santorum’s odds of enacting those beliefs into law are small, especially if the Senate remains Democratic.

    – Exactly, Brother Bradley. George H W Bush espoused the same view on flag desecration, and nothing ever came of it.

    Icy (aa68a6)

  150. “– And the bill he would sign into law, or the policy he would enact in line with that stance is WHAT?”

    Ask him. He’s the one who said something out of line with the experience of 90+% of the population.

    snaps (5cb04e)

  151. SarahW is a Gingrichbot.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  152. Santorum won’t ban contraception you weenus.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  153. Ask him.

    – Exactly. IOW, you’ve got nuthin’.

    Icy (aa68a6)

  154. “Santorum won’t ban contraception you weenus.”

    I just think he won’t support policies that make it easier to get and will support policies that make it harder to get.

    snaps (5cb04e)

  155. I’m not worried about Santorum’s contraception views. I know a lot of people who have those same views, and they are honorable and hardly kooky.

    It might be an electability issue, but if it is, wouldn’t that draw Obama’s own abortion views into the fold too? Obama’s got the most liberal record on this issue of any presidential candidate in history.

    So we have two guys with views that are outside the mainstream. The real issue is: how high a priority will this be to voters? I’m guessing not very high because this isn’t on anyone’s agenda.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  156. Well how dare he.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  157. Thank you for the discussion, everyone (that includes you, snaps). It shook out pretty much like I expected: Santorum is not thought of as being a fiscal conservative — although I would argue that he is better than some people think — and he’s too much of a social conservative to be electable in the general. Maybe that’s true. Then again, that same “he’s too much of a social conservative” argument was made against George W Bush as well; right?

    Icy (aa68a6)

  158. It’s a killer in the general, Dustin. No getting around it.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  159. IAM NO ONES BOT

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  160. Santorum is way out of the mainstream on Griswold, his views Would be viewed as potentially shaping policy, and most definitely paint him as the repellant to the middle who can not even concieve of the government having some sort of naysay on their own private purchase of contraception.

    The view that contraception has certain effects or shouldn’t be used isn’t insane, but it isn’t the mainstream view. The insane part is thinking that isn’t private.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  161. But he won’t be able to do a thing.

    BUT LET’S NOT LET FACTS GET IN THE WAY OF YOUR CIRCLE JERK.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  162. Contraception does have certain effects you stupid brat.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  163. Yeah, get it right, Dohbiden!

    She just wants to get Newt’s name on the ballot in Virginny, for the sake of making his humiliation more completer.

    Icy (aa68a6)

  164. It’s a killer in the general, Dustin. No getting around it.

    Comment by Sarahw —

    If so, it’s very unfair, considering Obama’s own views on the subject. And yes, I realize just how stupid it is to complain about fairness in politics.

    I was hoping the GOP candidate would be able to note that Obama has no idea what he’s doing and was far underqualified for this role, which is true. I don’t see how Santorum can effectively do that.

    If the 2012 election is determined by social issues, we are such a foolish nation, given the real issues that are towering over us. This is both a defense and a criticism of Santorum.

    I think Newt’s gotten a lot of votes so far and is hardly out of the race, but he needs to focus like a laser on fiscal sanity and reform and hope the voters reconsider.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  165. the middle who can not even concieve of the government having some sort of naysay on their own private purchase of contraception.

    Actually, yeah, I think maybe Sarah’s on to something there. I think Santorum’s defenders noting that this kind of naysay law is not actually going to happen have a point, but Santorum needs to make that point convincingly.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  166. So…snaps. Are you actually “tifosa”?

    And why the name change? Seriously.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  167. No surprise here.

    Romney’s campaign signals it’s going to get tough with yet another candidate who was sticking to the issues.

    Oh, it’s just vetting, right? I disagree. I think this is one of the most powerful factors ruining enthusiasm in a party that should be roaring with enthusiasm. Bad blood is a real concept.

    Hopefully Romney can keep it under control. We’ll see if Santorum’s campaign gets any obnoxious cakes or hysterical attack fliers.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  168. Dustin, it’s the economy, stupid! Democratic operatives will make hay from the social issues stuff, while the vast majority of voters will — and this is why they ignored the Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers, ‘the question of when life begins is above my pay grade’ stuff last time around — focus on one thing only: Which one of these guys is gonna do something that will allow me to live a better life.

    Icy (aa68a6)

  169. SarahW is a gingrichfan4life even if he is shown kicking Romney’s dog in the balls.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  170. Points in Santorum’s favor: He was also an author and floor manager of the landmark Welfare Reform Act

    ,,, unfortunately, that’s the only accomplishment on his list I found genuinely impressive.

    He also favored the line-item veto, which I tend to think concentrates too much power to be acceptable, but if you accept the price, it would solve a lot of problems.

    Santorum’s energy policy sounds good. It covers most of the factors and gets it right.

    Rick’s immigration platform is OK in parts. I agree with Rick that English being an official language would promote rather than penalize opportunities/common culture for immigrants. I think some of Rick’s comments about promoting what schools teach and partnering for enforcement against discrimination is antifederalist.

    Santorum also proposes medical liability reform. That’s one of the things Perry accomplished that proved he was an effective leader. Can Santorum actually make that happen? If so, that would be great.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  171. 167. Nor here:

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/02/romney-tells-us-who-he-fears-launches-attack-ad-against-newt-in-ohio/

    Napoleon, I am told by an ex-pat fan, had no choice but to advance into Russia during winter.

    Der Furher just wanted to end the war quickly but Russia was endless in her capacity for suffering.

    I think McDumbleDork is over-estimating his ability in waging war on two fronts.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  172. Dustin, it’s the economy, stupid!

    If that doesn’t determine the 2012 election, I’ll be dumbfounded.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  173. sarahw,

    I like things about all the GOP candidates but each has issues that will or could be problems in the general election. Santorum has said he doesn’t want to ban contraceptives:

    Well, the states have a right to do a lot of things. That doesn’t mean they should do it. Someone asked me if the states have the right to do it? Yes. They have the right to do it, they shouldn’t do it. I wouldn’t vote for it if they did. It doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to do it. As you know, Bill, you’re a Catholic, Catholic Church teaches contraceptive [sic] is something you shouldn’t do. So when I was asked the question on contraception I said I didn’t support it.

    IMO abortion will be a bigger problem for Santorum than Griswold, the right to privacy and contraceptives, but I’m not sure how much any of these issues will matter. For every voter turned off by Santorum’s positions, I suspect there are equal numbers turned off by the positions or personalities of Romney and Gingrich.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  174. poor newt hung his head
    called his family around
    now lost what was found

    Colonel Haiku (895552)

  175. Newt said b’lieve I’ll ride
    b’lieve I’ll go back home… mercy!
    they killed fatted Newt

    Colonel Haiku (895552)

  176. Romney made a comment about, “Not worrying about the very poor…” or some such, which when examined in context was intended to mean, “…we have programs for the very poor that have been developed over 50 years. Where those have problems they need to be fixed, but I am particularly interested in, at present, the vast majority of Americans who are suffering because of the poor performance of the economy. Not only are those people suffering, but if they are not working and contributing to the tax base, the very poor will then suffer even more in turn.”

    Of course, that is not what was advertised by the media. What was advertised by the media was, “Romney said he doesn’t care about poor people. We knew it all along, and he admitted it. Filthy rich dirty pig Conservative Republicans…”

    I think the outcome of any election process subject to such messaging is essentially irrational and unpredictable. The only way I can think to deal with it is to show the opponent so bad one would literally vote for the devil himself instead, or to so create a basic sense of good will toward a candidate so strong that people assume such negative twists are false accusations, rather than assume there is basis in fact.

    At present, the MSM messaging has been to so endorse Obama that a large number of people are in the later catagory. They don’t bother to listen about Bill Ayers, Tony Resco (sp), pro-infanticide legislation, irrational spending, etc., etc.

    So, if Santorum is treated with the same lack of fair-mindedness as Romney above, yes, there will be a lot that looks terrible. But, anyone other than Obama will be treated the same way. If one says, “Patterico is soft on crime because he doesn’t bring an indictment and conviction on every case that comes into his office”, most thinking people know that such a comment is a bunch of BS and is meaningless. But if a majority of people say, “Yeah, I heard that someplace, it must be true”, then patterico, and society, is in trouble.

    “Big government” conservative is a negative way of saying “a conservative that thinks government action can be a tool for social good” for those who would like to otherwise say “conservatives don’t care”.

    “Social conservative” means someone who doesn’t endorse and celebrate behavior that many others have come to accept as normative. Santorum would not be for enforcing Catholic morality by law on the public, as much as preventing the law from becoming an official opposition to Catholic morality. There is no desire to make a law that says it is illegal for two men to live together as a couple. The desire is to not let the law tell a person of faith that they have to treat a same sex couple as married in the same sense they believe their faith endorses an opposite-sex couple as being married.

    People would like it to be possible for “everybody to be nice and agreeable and no one offend anybody else”. The only problem is that such a state of being is a logical impossibility. If words and ideas have any meaning at all, they cannot always be in agreement. If one thinks there is “really agreement at the basic level”, then the agreement must be that “nothing means anything” (and “anything really nmeans nothing”).

    But it bothers us and “hurts our brain” to be forced to think hard and decide how to deal with conflict.

    That, IMO, is in a nutshell what the basic difference is between “liberalism” and “conservatism”. “Liberalism” thinks it is possible to have an essentially utopian society where “everybody is nice and kind and in agreement and harmony”, and “conservatism” thinks that if you respect people for who they are and what they think, there will never be agreement about everything, people will never be in agreement about what is “kind” and what is not.

    So, the liberal has the easy task of pointing and saying, “You’re not very kind”; the conservative has the harder job of pointing and saying, “That will not work, it does not correspond to the facts, and here’s why.”

    IF the disagreement was along the lines of, “No one likes people being poor, how can we best remedy it?”, then the discussion would be along the lines of what can govt. do to make the situation better, what has the govt. done with good intent that made things worse; what works, what doesn’t. That is what I thought the discussion was years ago. That is what some people might imagine the question still is today. But that is not the question today. There is no question today. Today we have finger pointing that says, “See, Romney doesn’t care, just like we knew all along! Shame on you! Jesus wouldn’t approve (not that we believe in jesus, of course, but it sounds good when we can use it against you).” When Romney says, “Just a minute, my point was…”, no one is listening anymore.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  177. Well said, Doc. And some of our “conservative” friends fed – and continue to feed – that meme.

    Colonel Haiku (895552)

  178. Policy trumps personality. Gingrich is a narcissist horror. The only upshot of this weakness is that narcissists do have a certain charm and attraction when they are riding high.

    Mitt has always had an awkward (and nasty if pushed) smarm about him – unfortunately that doesn’t improve the closer he gets in your mirror. Despite the height, the hair, the general good looks, the voice and fortune and whatever else you would expect out of a screenwriter’s version of a president, he is not very magnetic. This would be nothing if his track record and promises and “flirtations” with policy were better. It’s policy that is Mitt’s real downfall.

    Santorum is nerdy but this would be nothing if he also had a more limited government view and were not so outside the pale on issues mentioned above.

    I don’t think any of them are good. As you already know I think the first has a long shot. A moon shot. A Mars shot. I think more would hold their nose and vote ABO on his behalf.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  179. Dohbiden I’m likely to act like one even if I’m not. The Santorum problems are real and so are Mitts. And so are Newt’s really; I just think his weaknesses play more into the hands of what conservatives were hoping to achieve and hoping to prevent.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  180. So much for the omniscience of Intrade, Silver:

    “The betting market Intrade gave Mr. Romney about a 97 percent chance of winning Colorado entering the evening. But he lost the state by 5 points to Mr. Santorum.”

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  181. (not that we believe in jesus, of course, but it sounds good when we can use it against you)

    Boy is that true. I constantly see this “Jesus was a hippie socialist” meme thrown around by lefties who otherwise wouldn’t have any use for Christianity.

    [note: released from moderation. --Stashiu]

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (a18ddc)

  182. Unfortunately — and ironically, given the predeliction of many commenters here to bemoan the ‘fact’ that there are no ‘true conservatives’ in the race — it seems that Santorum’s main drawback is a perception that he is too conservative to win in the general.

    My problem with Santorum is not that he’s too conservative but that he’s a flaming liberal when it comes to the issues that really matter to this country, i.e. economics. He’s a true believer in big government (just like GWB and Romney, and Gingrich on even-numbered days).

    Milhouse (d7842d)

  183. “The betting market Intrade gave Mr. Romney about a 97 percent chance of winning Colorado entering the evening. But he lost the state by 5 points to Mr. Santorum.”

    Comment by gary gulrud

    It’s amusing to see folks continue to rely on intrade. It is useless, unless someone wants to pretend something in inevitable in hopes people will give up.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  184. Bro. Bradley,
    Thank you for the endorsement.
    A particularly egregious example had to be Rev. Obama’s homily at the prayer breakfast (or whatever it was) in the same time period where his administration was telling people of faith what they could do with any scrupples they had about funding birth control and abortion services.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  185. The Collective will not support a candidate not of their choosing.

    But does it matter? They weren’t taking any electoral votes south of VA, maybe FL. And few outside the NE and Mormon citadel.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  186. Comment by gary gulrud — 2/7/2012 @ 7:16 pm

    Based on this night, I can guarantee WI will follow suit. They are more conservative than MN.

    I think of somethinbg else. It is only in Iowa – and to some extent in Minnesota – that the abortion issue is really salient. And also some parts of Minnesota got exposed to the same media as Iowa. Wisconsin is further away.

    A lot will depend on who is perceived as a stroinger candiodate (once you get past 2 candidates perceptions of how who is a stroinegr caqndidate – who is ahead of whom – become very important.

    If Mitt Romney runs negative ads against both Santorum and Gingrich they become less credible.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)

  187. 176, 181.

    I wouldn’t even think of using such an argument. (Exodus 23:13)

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)

  188. Sammy, of course you wouldn’t.

    I write it only because I think it is true that others are happy to use such. Some “have no fear of God”.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)


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