Patterico's Pontifications

2/2/2012

Mitt Romney, Loose Cannon

Filed under: 2012 Election — Karl @ 7:17 am

[Posted by Karl]

Newt Gingrich is easily branded as a loose cannon.  Indeed, I’ve done it, because it’s true.  However, frontrunner Mitt Romney is far from immune from self-destructive gaffes:

Obsessive attention to detail suffuses Mitt Romney’s candidacy for president, from the number of times staff members check the microphones at his rallies to their relentless scouring of Twitter.

But Mr. Romney’s aides cannot always bring that well-known level of discipline to one crucial aspect of the campaign: their candidate’s seemingly endless ability to utter remarks that, to the delight of his critics, sail onto political blogs, YouTube and Twitter.

Romney’s comment that “I’m not concerned about the very poor,” caused Jonah Goldberg to ask “What is wrong with this guy?” and to later answer that “as even he will admit, he’s a late arrival. And, as you might expect, he speaks conservatism as a second language.”

It may be worse than that.  As Goldberg also noted, “[t]he frustrating problem with Romney is that his flubs and gaffes either share liberal assumptions or are caricatures of conservative ones.”  I would argue the problem is more specific.  Romney’s gaffes are rooted in his wealth problem.  He alternatively makes comments that feed the narrative of an out-of-touch fatcat or irritate the GOP base with faux populism designed to counter that narrative.  Indeed, yesterday Romney said that he was not concerned about the very poor or the very rich, when his concern should be whatever benefits America without regard to class issues.  Instead, his sensitivity to the wealth issue causes him to not  only disregard the affluent  and the poor rhetorically, but to produce a mediocre tax plan and to back indexing the minimum wage for inflation, which ironically hurts the poor.

In short, Romney recognizes his wealth is a political liability and his attempts to address that liability often become an additional liability.  His discomfort also feeds the perception that he is inauthentic.  Unless he finds a personal comfort level with his wealth and its political implications, all of these problems will linger into the general election, where Team Obama will exploit them ruthlessly.

–Karl

347 Responses to “Mitt Romney, Loose Cannon”

  1. Ding!

    Karl (8cdbad)

  2. Did it hurt Reagan when he said the Dems undertook the War on Poverty and poverty won?

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  3. No but then again Reagan wasn’t a hypocritical jackass like Romney was.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  4. he kind of got lucky that his stupid poor people gaffe took the spotlight away from what his Andy Stern-style thinkings about the minimum wage reveal about him

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  5. … I though Newt was un-fit for office b/c he talked too much shit?

    GangStarr (dcf97e)

  6. Does Romney know any poor people? You know, folks who make less than $300K a year?

    Kevin M (563f77)

  7. As Riehl says Willard “is not educable”. Cue TOTUS on training wheels.

    Take, for example, his wheelhouse, the “hypothetical” EU meltdown:

    wheels.http://www.zerohedge.com/news/ecb-dollar-swaps-new-york-fed-jump-highest-2009-surpass-recent-liquidity-crisis-highs

    He has no long-term memory and can only cram for tomorrow’s quiz.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  8. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/ecb-dollar-swaps-new-york-fed-jump-highest-2009-surpass-recent-liquidity-crisis-highs

    ECB’s printing of 1.5 Trillion euros helps nought if no one wants them.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  9. 5. Yeah, $367K in speaker’s fees was “not a lot of money”. Pushed him, after deductions, to 13.9%.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  10. First, I don’t think Romney’s so-called gaffe is going to hurt him. People evaluate candidates on what they think the candidate is going to do for them and their jobs and security. (Even taking his comment out of context) Romney not worrying about the very poor isn’t going to hurt him among the middle class… because the middle class doesn’t think they’re going to be hurt if Romney doesn’t spend a lot of time worrying about the poor. Also, don’t forget the tendency of those who are very into politics to magnify the importance of just about everything that happens. Romney’s $10,000 bet was supposed to be fatal, as was his flip comment on his consulting income and his slowness in releasing his tax returns… and yet he keeps plugging along.

    Second, his so-called gaffes occur because he hasn’t mastered the art of considering how his comments can be twisted by his opponents before saying something on a given issue. This isn’t rooted in his wealth, but rather due to his simply not having a lot of experience with politics on the retail level. If you look at those who suffer the same malady, with the exception of Biden, I think you’ll see that the majority of them are relatively late entrants into the political world. It takes a certain skill to speak in perfect sound bite (defined as a comment that both scores points and yet doesn’t give your opponent an opening).

    Actually, I need to include Gingrich along with Biden as examples of lifetime politicians who let their mouths get them into trouble.

    steve (369bc6)

  11. 2. “The most frightening words one can hear: We’re from the government and we’re here to help.”

    I kinda think Reagan got his point across without surrogates, spinmeisters, backtracking, and unalloyed BS.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  12. 9. “People evaluate candidates on what they think the candidate is going to do for them and their jobs and security.”

    And now we’re back to surrogates, spinmeisters, and “Trust me I made my self rich, I’m just busy, busy, busy.”

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  13. After its obvious that he won the GOP nomination, Romney will try to make it look like he is a “compassionate moderate” who can work with the socialists on the left, then he will start saying he just can be a better manager of the Huge Centralized Government that Obama.

    Wayne (0f5387)

  14. 9. “I need to include Gingrich along with Biden as examples of lifetime politicians who let their mouths get them into trouble.”

    With all due respect, all of BiteMe’s problems reside between his ears.

    A not insignificant proportion of Gingrich’s problem communicating resides between yours.

    No offense.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  15. Words you will never hear: “Let Romney be Romney.”

    Mainly because no one knows who that would be.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  16. portion*

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  17. “This is one of the biggest things I’m going to be pushing back on this year, this notion that this is somehow class warfare, that we’re trying to stir up envy,” Obama said. “Nobody envies rich people, everybody wants to be rich. Everybody aspires to be rich, and everybody understands you’ve got work hard to be successful. That’s the American way.”

    They just want to raise their taxes because they love them so much.

    Ronald (d1c681)

  18. Karl – You forgot to mention that Romney hates Holocaust survivors and deprives them of their kosher meals according to Gingrich on the stump and his robocalls, so it must be true.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  19. Carried interest gets capital gains tax rate:

    http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-18/romney-as-multimillionaire-gets-break-for-taxes?category=%2Fnews%2Fmostread%2F

    Romney supports continuing this tax regime. Meanwhile Dear Leader mouths some social reformer:

    “Unto him to whom much is given, much will be required”.

    Footnote: There is some question on the part of funnymentalists that ‘much’ might not refer to monies, see “Render unto Caesar…” and “The Poor will always be with you,..” and “I am the Bread of Life..”, just sayin’.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  20. 16. Karl you also forgot to mention Willard gave 7% of his reported income to charity, not including his tithe.

    He also likes Country Western, thinks the Beatles were fabulous, has driven to DisneyWorld, changed diapers, speaks broken French, a few words of Spanish, and is altogether dreamy.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  21. I agree with what Steve posted in #9… what Romney said vis-a-vis the “very poor” is completely defensible. He just needs to say it in an artful way.

    Let’s face it… it ain’t like the “very poor” or the “poor”, in general, aren’t already Obamabots… if he hadn’t said this, the Obama media lapdogs and some “friendlies” on the Right would have found something else about Romney to complain about.

    Colonel Haiku (af1a14)

  22. Does Romney know any poor people? You know, folks who make less than $300K a year?
    Comment by Kevin M — 2/2/2012 @ 8:37 am

    – Class whorefare stance laid bare.

    Icy (bedb4a)

  23. Irony.

    Does Romney know that speaking french causes people to faint?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  24. 19. Indeed, let’s just grant that the 47% who pay no Federal income tax are not in play at all. Plainly they can only do worse being ignored.

    Then there’s the bottom of the remaining 53% who receive more bennies than they put in. Some unknown portion of this group, know they’ll do better under Dear Leader.

    Perhaps they are school janitors, public transportation employees, librarians, driver’s license examiners, food safety inspectors, whatever, piggies at the trough. Forget them too.

    Split retirees down the middle, no advantage either way.

    Alrighty then were down to maybe 30% of those who truly have nothing to gain keeping el Presidente.

    It will make no difference that one fool is on the teleprompter and the other can’t memorize a laundry ticket–the reason he does his own.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  25. With all due respect, all of BiteMe’s problems reside between his ears.
    A not insignificant proportion of Gingrich’s problem communicating resides between yours.

    – The speaker (sorry: The Speaker) is too smart for the crowd that he is speaking to?

    Gee, I seem to remember hearing the same thing said about another political leader recently . . . someone whose name rhymes with Sadat-o-rama?

    Icy (bedb4a)

  26. – Class whorefare stance laid bare.

    Comment by Icy

    At the very least, Romney has been charitable, and I think sincerely because he didn’t seem to want to release the tax forms that show it.

    But he employed illegals, or at best was ambivalent about it when the Globe told him a year before they told him again. And these guys were working on the two Romney mansions in town for pretty long shifts.

    I think when we import low level labor to work long hours, it’s purely because that is much cheaper than employing American workers who need that kind of work. Those are the poor Romney should care about. There is a real problem of perception here, where some think wealthy Republicans want illegal workers in this country so they can profit from their cheap labor instead of employing Americans. This is something Romney’s own amnesty comments doesn’t help much with, though he’s changed radically from his former statements.

    For someone who is so generous, it’s unfortunate if he’s overlooked these matters. When someone aims to run for president and has illegal workers, I worry about his intelligence and ability to manage.

    Regarding Romney’s statement about the poor, I get what he meant to say, but he said it so poorly. The fact is that a lot of poor Americans vote Republican, and a lot of people who are sympathetic to poor Americans also vote Republican. In fact, Romney personally is probably a good example of a wealthy Republican who cares about the poor. He simply needs to be more careful, just like Newt needs to be. It is a real electability problem both create for themselves.

    Also, I’m informed that 1/4th of Romney’s donations came from a mere 41 people. It’s a free country, but that kind of thing will feed into a class warfare general election. I don’t want that to happen, I just realize it will. So Romney needs to be more proactive. He’s been so negative in his attacks on other Republicans for some time now, and if he manages to trounce them all and get nominated, he better not be an idiot and blow the general election with a serious of stupid comments that feed into the democrat attack machine.

    It’s not very comforting that the memes won’t be accurate.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  27. 23. ” The Speaker is too smart for the crowd that he is speaking to? ”

    That is a conceivable stab at the meaning. Here’s a more likely etiology:

    They’re both Republicans.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  28. Just consider that only a few hundred votes in Florida decided the 2000 election. How many Bush voters out of the 18 million people there, were poor?

    Dustin (401f3a)

  29. Lots of sour grapes here from the Gingrich lovers. Romney up over 20 in Nevada, Arizona, and close to 20 in Michigan polls today. But of course the poor man can’t speak well enough so let’s just throw him overboard. Keep talking to yourselves (and that includes the groupies at National Review these days like Goldberg and others whom I had never even heard of before this month (Trinko, Balduc, Costa etc.) Romney is a competent problem solver which this country needs badly right now. That bests ideology and oratory in my mind and I suspect in many voters’ minds who are not ideologues.

    bio mom (a1e126)

  30. I think when we import low level labor to work long hours, it’s purely because that is much cheaper than employing American workers who need that kind of work.
    – First of all, let us not forget that this “low level labor” is self-importing. Second, if American workers “need that kind of work” they can get in line and do it. And if you’re going to counter with ‘American workers won’t do the work for wages that low’ then what does that say about them? Are they the 99ers? (Not the 99%; talking about Ed “Sgt” Schultz’s unemployed for whom 99 weeks of unemployment compensation is somehow not enough). You’re not advocating for Romney’s alleged automatic minimum wage increases, are you?

    Icy (bedb4a)

  31. First of all, let us not forget that this “low level labor” is self-importing.

    True. And Romneycare offers free health care and has been wrong on amnesty. So would illegals self import somewhere that is very generous to them?

    Second, if American workers “need that kind of work” they can get in line and do it.

    If you read the Globe articles, it’s clear even the illegals wound up giving up doing it. We have a lot of laws about how you should pay labor, how you should treat labor safely, how many hours they can work in one stretch.

    You sound like you reject those laws, and that’s certainly a legitimate free market view, but Romney DOESN’T reject those laws, In fact, he wants to make minimum wage increases automatic.

    So at least under the rules Romney thinks American workers and employers should operate under, no I don’t think it was an option for such to compete with his lawn care.

    This is admittedly a guess, but I think the reason Romney kept using that illegal lawn care over a year after he was aware of the problem was that it was so inexpensive.

    Either way, it was a mistake made when he knew he was a prominent politician. He knew the reporters were looking at this specific thing! He handled it stupidly.

    Romney is a competent problem solver which this country needs badly right now. That bests ideology and oratory in my mind and I suspect in many voters’ minds who are not ideologues.

    This country needs something a lot better than the kind of fight Romney put up in MA.

    But yes, my problem with him is largely ideological.

    But I want to note something else: months ago I noted how much more likely a third party is when we nominate duds like Dole or Bush 41 post the Sununu disaster on taxes. And some scoffed. But it’s already becoming true.

    Romney cannot win because the GOP’s base is not nearly as loyal as he’s hoping it will be.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  32. furthermore, Icy, if the guy running the lawn care service repeatedly refuses to abide by the law, he should be prosecuted, as should those who could be proven to know he was breaking the law.

    I don’t think ‘you can just jump right in there and work for the criminal’ is an acceptable rebuttal.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  33. – Class whorefare stance laid bare.

    More like lack of candidate’s life experience laid bare.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  34. how does Wall Street Romney square his passin for states’ rights what resulted in romneycare with his lust for a national minimum wage exactly

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  35. Kevin, it’s remarkable how these three get when Romney is criticized honestly.

    You’re a whore, apparently. that’s the intelligent response.

    They flip from talking about general election potential is ALL to acting like considering any such issues makes one a whore or gay or evil or crazy.

    This is not a GOP that is strong enough to beat Obama, that’s for sure. These issues won’t go away. The base is pissed off. There are rumblings about a third party, just as I noted (to a similar chorus of scoffs) would happen if we nominated Romney.

    Romneycare simply is a bridge too far for a lot of Tea Partiers to support, especially with Mccain in recent memory and the GOP’s lame performance lately.

    I’m also hearing this argument that conservatives should take their general election vote and hand it to the green party in hopes that it screws the democrats. I think such a tactic is dishonorable electioneering, but a lot of folks will jump at a chance to send a message to the GOP.

    All these guys who endorsed Romney don’t get it, and some folks will try to make sure they soon do get it.

    I just don’t have any expectations for Romney to accomplish anything, after all the ‘democrats were mean’ excuses he has for his other government work.

    Newt I do have some confidence in, given he’s accomplished a lot by fighting democrats, but even he is really stretching how far I cam compromise.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  36. *passion* I mean

    it’s too late to do new year’s resolutions but I’m thinking about doing “no more multi-tasking” for 2013

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  37. True. And Romneycare offers free health care and has been wrong on amnesty. So would illegals self import somewhere that is very generous to them?
    – Congratulations, detective! You’ve discovered that illegals come here in order to have a better life because things here are much better than where they came from. Now, if you are extending that theory to say that significant numbers of these people are self-importing themselves all the way to Massachusetts because that state is the true promised land, then you’re just being silly.

    Icy (bedb4a)

  38. 27. “Lots of sour grapes here from the Gingrich lovers.”

    Presuming the lady is addressing me among others, I take umbrage at the implication I’m working for anyone but the Munchkin.

    Moreover, I been a H8er from the womb.

    Boo Romany, Boo Rove, Boo GOP.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  39. Mr feets, we already have a national minimum wage. Which candidate wants to eliminate it? Nor Luap?

    Icy (bedb4a)

  40. I don’t think ‘you can just jump right in there and work for the criminal’ is an acceptable rebuttal.

    – It’s gonna take several years for you to prosecute all of those growers in California.

    Icy (bedb4a)

  41. This is not a GOP that is strong enough to beat Obama, that’s for sure.
    – Then why don’t you strengthen your party already?

    Icy (bedb4a)

  42. . Now, if you are extending that theory to say that significant numbers of these people are self-importing themselves all the way to Massachusetts because that state is the true promised land, then you’re just being silly.

    They go where the jobs are, Icy. Such as on Romney’s lawn.

    Romney claims he’s a leader on this specific issue, but he wasn’t able to manage his own lawn without illegal immigrants showing up.

    My links show how he supported amnesty as well as how his health care reform offered them quite a nice entitlement at taxpayer expense. My Cato link explains that this caused demand to skyrocket, which is what you should expect.

    It’s not one thing. It’s a series of things. Liberalism doesn’t work. That’s why MA is so screwed up. They have gun control AND a very high murder rate, for example, in areas where there is a lot dependency on government.

    It all feeds into itself and the core cause is really simple: leaders who use government to solve problems. Like Romney trying to force everyone in the country to pay the wage the federal government deems minimum.

    Anyway, I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. Romney’s behavior in three ways that I’ve documented support illegal immigration. This is highly contrary to Romney’s later claims to be a leader on this issue.

    This undermines his credibility in the same way all his other contradictions do.

    if you are extending that theory to say significant numbers of these people are self-importing themselves all the way to Massachusetts

    How is this an extension of the theory?

    You already conceded the theory is accurate and are just coloring it with “silly” for no apparent reason.

    The only thing saving MA from more rampant illegal immigration is terrible job growth. They come primarily for the jobs, after all, and MA under Romney was 47th out of 50 on jobs.

    It’s hard to come up with an angle to discuss this that doesn’t show how liberalism doesn’t work. Romneycare is very burdensome for employers.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  43. Mitt Romney is worse without a teleprompter or a prepared text than Barack Obama is.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)

  44. I think the best way to strengthen the party is to savage anyone that dares to criticize the annointed candidate, a man noxious to many conservatives.

    JD (3d848c)

  45. – It’s gonna take several years for you to prosecute all of those growers in California.

    Comment by Icy

    But we had someone having a bit of a fit when interviews by the Globe, explaining that he just plain doesn’t give a crap what the law says about documentation.

    People who knowingly violate the law like that deserve to be prosecuted, and this guy in particular had lucrative government contracts.

    Instead of that happening, the Governor kept doing business with him and a year later there was yet another story with the same scoffing about the law.

    That’s not leadership.

    Mr feets, we already have a national minimum wage. Which candidate wants to eliminate it? Nor Luap?

    Comment by Icy —

    Romney wants to make increases in the minimum wage automatic! This is a really liberal idea. It’s antifederalist, too.

    Happyfeet noted that Romney claims Romneycare is OK because of federalism, and notes that Romney’s federalist streak appears to be unreliable.

    Your response that other candidates support the current status quo minimum wage is a decent point, but I don’t think it captures just how ridiculous Romney’s plan is.

    It might give Romney some tiny advantage in the general election, but long term, it takes away a significant point of negotiation, permanently, and in the democrats’ favor. Instead of the GOP using an increase in the wage as a concession to get something else, we just get nothing, permanently.

    This is how Romney operated as governor of MA. He collaborated with Ted Kennedy instead of fighting him. It gained Romney temporary power, and long term, it’s made quite a mess.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  46. Romany feels Bernanke has not done well and he would not reappoint him.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/under-twist-fed-has-purchased-91-all-gross-issuance-long-dated-us-treasurys

    Short version, Operation Twist was undertaken to roll the short term notes of US Debt into longer term bills. Having 50% of our debt in paper maturing in 3 years or less was bad when that’s all Europe could sell of their own debt.

    Well you now own 91% of that debt paying like 4% over 30 years. Feel more secure?

    What did milk do last year? 20% and the stuff doesn’t keep.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  47. Mitt Romney said something that was just ridiculous. That’s because what he actually wanted to say didn’t make any sense.

    Gail Collins did a humourous deconstruction in the New York Times today:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/02/opinion/collins-mitt-speaks-oh-no.html?_r=1&hp

    I’m in this race because I care about … (tiniest of pauses)… Americans. I’m not concerned about the very poor. …

    I don’t think he actually meant to suggest the very poor were not Americans. But still.

    We have a safety net there. If it needs repair, I’ll fix it. …

    Does anybody truly believe that Romney is planning to spend any presidential time dreaming up ways to fix the safety net for the benefit of the very poor? Be real. This is the guy who drove to Canada with the family dog strapped on the roof.

    I’m not concerned about the very rich. They’re doing just fine. …

    Gee, he should know.

    I’m concerned about the very heart of America, the 90-95 percent of Americans who, right now, are struggling. …

    Difficult as these times are, I don’t think 90 percent to 95 percent of Americans are struggling. If they were, the whole country would look like a scene out of “Contagion” or “The Walking Dead.”

    We will hear from the Democrat Party (about) the plight of the poor. …

    Not really. If we had a dollar for every speech President Obama has given about the poor, we would … not have a lot of money. However, it is interesting to hear a candidate directly attacking the opposition for being concerned about the destitute.

    And there’s no question, it’s not good being poor. …

    Here, Mitt Romney demonstrates his capacity for empathy.

    And we have a safety net to help those that are very poor. But my campaign is focused on middle-income Americans. My campaign — you can choose where to focus. You can focus on the rich. That’s not my focus. You can focus on the very poor. That’s not my focus. …

    This is the third time in less than two minutes that he’s mentioned that he does not really give a fig about the people who make under $5,000 a year.

    My focus is on middle-income Americans: Retirees living on Social Security. People who can’t find work. …

    Whoa! Do you think he’s suggesting that the very poor do not have a problem finding work? That they’re too lazy to look? Or does he just figure that they’re all disabled, or children, or old people who don’t get Social Security? That would be pretty harsh. And weird, if he’s trying to say: “I only care about the elderly if they made enough money to qualify for Social Security. The rest are doing fine under government programs.”

    Folks that have kids that are getting ready to go to college. These are the people who have been most badly hurt during the Obama years. We have a very ample safety net, and we can talk about whether it needs to be strengthened or whether there are holes in it. But we have food stamps. We have Medicaid. We have housing vouchers. We have programs to help the poor. …

    Romney seems obsessed with the idea that his enemies are spreading rumors that he’s going to be devoting his presidential campaign to proposing new programs to help the poor. Really, I do not think this is going to be a problem.

    But the middle-income Americans, they’re the folks that are really struggling right now. And they need someone that can help get this economy going for them.

    That’s the end. Rest assured that Mitt Romney is not going to be spending a single second fretting about the problems of really, really poor people. His supporters can breathe a sigh of relief. Now all they’re going to have to worry about is the fact that he’s going to keep talking like this for the next nine months.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)

  48. You’re a whore, apparently. that’s the intelligent response.
    – Kevin has chosen to any his flag in the “Romney is a greedy, immoral, vulture capitalist” camp.

    They flip from talking about general election potential is ALL to acting like considering any such issues makes one a whore or gay or evil or crazy.
    – I categorically deny ever calling you “evil”.

    Romneycare simply is a bridge too far for a lot of Tea Partiers to support, especially with Mccain in recent memory and the GOP’s lame performance lately.
    – And by that you mean the Tea Partiers think he’s going to institute Romneycare nationwide?

    Icy (bedb4a)

  49. Mr. Icy right now the national minimum wage is understood to be a vote-buying tool where socialists and cowardly McCain-type Rs try and buy votes by throwing black teens out of work.

    Romney wants to change this time-honored institution – why? – to fulfill one of Obama’s campaign promises.

    But why do the states that Wall Street Romney says have the right to force their meek loser beaten dog citizens to buy health insurance not have the same right to dictate low-wage worker pay?

    It makes no sense.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  50. Speaking of speaking French, the little elitist with the hot wife showed some backbone yesterday:

    “A few days after Germany proposed the stripping of Greek fiscal authority from the insolvent country, in exchange for providing funding for what German FinMin Schauble called today a “bottomless pit”, Sarkozy decided to demonstrate his “muscle” if not so much stature, and openly denied Germany, saying “There can be no question of putting any country under tutelage.”

    Sarkozy is trailing badly, 3 months ahead of elections, the Socialist who wants to re-negotiate the European treaty.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  51. 45. I think Sammy just wrote the obit.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  52. Romney is a competent problem solver which this country needs badly right now.

    And THAT is the crux of our disagreement.

    We are past incremental solutions, and that all Romney knows how to do. He consults a committee and turns the knobs in the consensus direction. He cannot, or will not, see that something is irretrievably broken and stop fiddling with the knobs.

    Gingrich has actually done this, with welfare reform. He got Congress to take a President up on his (lying) campaign promise to “end welfare as we know it”, pushed past several vetoes and made welfare a safety net again, instead of a racist generational trap. And Romney dissed him for it at the time.

    We need serious change. The federal government needs to lose 20-40% of its workforce, a half-dozen departments need to be closed or consolidated, and those activities it continues to do need substantial operational changes. Further, the relationship between the federal, state and local governments needs to be more federalist and less unitary, something the federal bureaucracy will resist to the last person.

    Romney promises to have all the deck chairs on the Titanic lined up and polished, and an orderly life-boat drill, but doesn’t seem to comprehend the nature of the disaster we’re in. Especially since Obama has another 11+ months to strike a couple more icebergs.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  53. But why do the states that Wall Street Romney says have the right to force their meek loser beaten dog citizens to buy health insurance not have the same right to dictate low-wage worker pay?

    The answer is simply that this is what the polls are showing is politically expedient.

    It’s amazing how often this pushes our leaders to contradict themselves.

    Of course, who do I propose as alternative to the liberal flip flopper? The conservative flip flopper.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  54. – Kevin has chosen to any his flag in the “Romney is a greedy, immoral, vulture capitalist” camp.

    I’d respond to that if I understood it. But I’ve never called Romney a capitalist.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  55. Just kidding.

    Romney has a really mixed history at Bain. We aren’t discussing the many fine transactions there, but rather a few that are troubling and are easily confused with the actions of a “greedy, immoral vulture capitalist.” Repeatedly pulling money out of refis, for example. In case you forgot, the companies that survived the last 4 years were generally the less leveraged ones.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  56. BTW, I do try to keep a civil tongue here, and only seem to fail when it comes to Romney’s paid stooge Colonel Haiku. And even him I don’t call a “whore” even though it might be most accurate.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  57. We aren’t discussing the many fine transactions there, but rather a few that are troubling

    Right. The issue is that Romney cited Bain in a way that suggests he wants to get credit for every good ends, so naturally that suggests he’s responsible for every means.

    I think the notion he was a strong businessman is probably fair, but I also think some of the claims are highly, highly exaggerated (such as his role in Staples) and also some of his decisions don’t put him in a flattering light for a conservative.

    It’s great he has some experience running something, met a payroll, etc, but if we’re vetting for electability, that doesn’t mean we just give Romney a pass because if we don’t we get slammed with silly insults.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  58. They go where the jobs are, Icy. Such as on Romney’s lawn.
    – That accounts for two of them. Where did the other 12 million go?

    Romney claims he’s a leader on this specific issue, but he wasn’t able to manage his own lawn without illegal immigrants showing up.
    – IMHO, you’re playing small ball here. Did McCain lose because of the *gasp* huge revelation that he and his wife own seven houses? Doubtful.

    Like Romney trying to force everyone in the country to pay the wage the federal government deems minimum.
    – When did Romney become responsible for a federal standard that has been in place for over 70 years?

    Romney wants to make increases in the minimum wage automatic! This is a really liberal idea. It’s antifederalist, too.
    – Look, are you calling for an end to the federal minimum wage? If so, then congratulations, you can now join the Ayn Rand Society. And then you can lobby Newt to put elimination of the federal minimum wage into his platform.

    Your response that other candidates support the current status quo minimum wage is a decent point, but I don’t think it captures just how ridiculous Romney’s plan is.
    – This “plan” is part of his official platform, is it? Paging Sarahw . . .

    Icy (bedb4a)

  59. BTW, I do try to keep a civil tongue here, and only seem to fail when it comes to Romney’s paid stooge Colonel Haiku. And even him I don’t call a “whore” even though it might be most accurate.

    Comment by Kevin M

    I think there’s a reason his comments make one resent Romney supporters. He is, at best, very difficult to differentiate from a Moby trying to kill two birds with one stone.

    I have many ideological problems with Romney and lack faith in his vague suggestion for conservative reforms, but I don’t think he wants the kind of support Haiku offers.

    I think he probably wants people who are more frank about how he’s not as conservative, but has executive experience and is (to their view, not mine) the only way to beat Obama.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  60. Hey Finkelman, feel free to insert “middle class” in the spot where you typed “(tiniest of pauses)”, since that is what Mitt actually said.

    Icy (bedb4a)

  61. Icy – did he, or did he not suggest that he is in favor of tying the minimum wage to inflation, with automatic increases?

    JD (3d848c)

  62. Hey happyfeet, which candidate has the best position on the minimum wage, and why? GO!

    Icy (bedb4a)

  63. He may have mentioned the idea, JD. Has he made it a part of his official platform?

    Icy (bedb4a)

  64. Krauthammer has an excellent point:

    Romney is wrong to talk about these reforms as poor vs middle class. That buys into the left wing notions that governed Romney’s decisions as governor.

    The moral case for conservative economics is that our policies are going to help everybody, including the poor.”

    Haiku also makes this mistake. “The poor are all obamabots, lolol”

    No, that’s not right at all. With less government intrusion, prosperity happens on its own! Employers make more deals, hire more people, they do their own thing. It all works. Sure, it’s always possible to find something one wants to tweak, but falling into that picking winners and losers and trying to help this class over that class… it’s very stupid, long term, because all this prosperity happens on its own much better.

    Beyond the baseline government services, we need leaders who want to pull the federal government completely out of all picking of winners and losers. No ‘I wlll give you a forever increasing minimum wage’. No ‘it’s conservative for your government to force you into health insurance’. No no no.

    Liberals see this as about putting ideology over the interests of the poor. Those folks need to hit Youtube for some Milton Friedman. The poor are much better off with less government intrusions.

    Leaving the primary aside, just think how many jobs Obamacare is going to kill. Employers do worse with such burdens, even if they are told it’s for their own good.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  65. 50. Gawd, I love the echo in here.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  66. Hey Finkelman, feel free to insert “middle class” in the spot where you typed “(tiniest of pauses)”, since that is what Mitt actually said.

    Comment by Icy

    EXACTLY.

    Conservatism is not about helping one class. We don’t need to be divided into haves and have nots and clamor for US to get stuff as opposed to THEM.

    Charles Krauthammer is correct that this is a matter of Romney needing to become fluent in conservatism. It’s not Romney’s job to ‘help the middle class’, and the only way to do so, long term, is to get government off the backs of employers.

    IMHO, you’re playing small ball here.

    Sure, the lawn issue did not have a major impact except that it undermined Romney’s credibility as proactive on immigration. Yet Romneycare is not a small ball issue. It’s a major expense that increases demand by subsidizing goodies, including for illegals.

    I don’t agree with that.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  67. That was beneath you, Icy.

    JD (3d848c)

  68. – Kevin has chosen to any his flag in the “Romney is a greedy, immoral, vulture capitalist” camp.

    I’d respond to that if I understood it. But I’ve never called Romney a capitalist.
    Comment by Kevin M — 2/2/2012 @ 12:27 pm

    – That was supposed to be “plant” instead of “any” (stupid iPhone!) And if Romney isn’t a capitalist, what is he then?

    Icy (bedb4a)

  69. 58. “what Mitt actually said”

    Yer kickin’ against the goads, brother. Title of post “WMR-Motor Mouth”.

    Ever read “Myth of Sysiphus, you francophile you?”

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  70. What was beneath me?

    Icy (bedb4a)

  71. 68. Crater of SMOD.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  72. He may have mentioned the idea, JD.

    Comment by Icy

    Dude,

    Romney just asserted he has supported the idea for a decade.

    The Club for Growth reacted that Romney’s proposal is a “job killer”. Which is the obvious response, right?

    Newt specifically criticized Romney’s decade held proposal. He raised a very intelligent point: what if we have followed Romney’s vision in the 1970s? That would have led to disastrous wages.

    Automatic min wage increases have long been on the liberal wish list, but it’s not a good idea.

    Now, is Romney serious, or is he just thinking ahead to the general election? I don’t know.

    I think Romney sees his wealth as a political liability and is trying to prove he’s super sensitive while also trying to prove he’s a bona fide republican. So his messaging is all over the place, probably pissing both sides off, but in neither case is it really all that meaningful.

    He’s not going to have the spine to fight for “tax cuts for the rich” or cuts to things the “lower class” are told they are dependent on.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  73. He either said it, or he didn’t. He may have said it, but it doesn’t count because it is not formally part of his platform?

    JD (3d848c)

  74. JD, has he said “if I am elected president I will do this”? Is it on the issues page of his website? I don’t hold any politicians accountable to every word they say in that manner.

    Icy (bedb4a)

  75. This kinda harkens to Icy’s objection to Sarah’s assumption that Romney will institute a VAT.

    No, Romney has not put that on a proposal. Icy had a point. Yet would a RINO put something like that on their proposal? Is it any comfort at all that he hasn’t? Isn’t it actually quite silly, given how RINOs operate, to tell those who are alarmed Romney hasn’t ruled out a VAT that it’s not specified on a proposal? Of course it’s not on a proposal.

    Romney’s proposals are pretty vague. I don’t even know what Romney’s “replace” for “repeal and replace obamacare” is.

    What I DO know is that Romney is doesn’t rule out a lot of stuff I disagree with, and even notes he supports things I disagree with.

    Free country, and those who like those ideas have their candidate, but I really wish the GOP would be the party that stood against that, and liberals were running as democrats. I think Romney trying to beat Obama for the democrat nomination would have been a much better scenario for everyone.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  76. And if Romney DOES come out and say “as president I will do this,” then I will oppose it, just as I will oppose a VAT if that is put forth as an official platform position.

    Icy (bedb4a)

  77. EAGAN  — Republican presidential contender Mitt Romney renewed his support Wednesday for automatic increases in the federal minimum wage to keep pace with inflation, a position sharply at odds with traditional GOP business allies, conservatives and the party’s senior lawmakers.

    “I haven’t changed my thoughts on that,” the former Massachusetts governor told reporters aboard his chartered campaign plane, referring to a stand he has held for a decade.

    But we should be fine with this nonsense because it is not on his website?!?!

    JD (3d848c)

  78. Dustin, the candidate whose positions most closely reflect my own is Santorum.

    Unfortunately, he isn’t going to win.

    Icy (bedb4a)

  79. And if Romney DOES come out and say “as president I will do this,” then I will oppose it, just as I will oppose a VAT if that is put forth as an official platform position.

    Comment by Icy

    Well, I don’t wish to put words in your mouth, but my impression is that oppose both those things NOW. What we’re talking about is whether you oppose Romney’s “official platform”.

    What I can tell you is that Newt has gone to some length to explain this is something he also opposes. Mitt has done the contrary.

    In all honesty, Icy, it is hard for me to take anything Romney says seriously because I have an impression he just says whatever is expedient.

    You are putting too much faith in Romney to let him weasel out of proposals if it doesn’t appear on his website. He’s being quite liberal on this issue.

    Trying to fight the meme that Romney is the most liberal candidate just can’t work. He is what he is. It’s not his fault the most conservative candidates never took off, either, but he is what he is.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  80. Dustin, the candidate whose positions most closely reflect my own is Santorum.

    Unfortunately, he isn’t going to win.

    Comment by Icy

    Yes, I remember that and I apologize for saying you were too reflexively defending Romney some time ago.

    The thing I like most about Santorum is that he doesn’t pretend. He is what he is. I don’t like all of his views, but he hasn’t hidden that he’s hardly a Goldwater kind of guy. He’s weathered a lot of BS by holding his head up high and being proud of who he is.

    That isn’t something I can say for Santorum’s rivals, Newt or Mitt.

    It’s honorable for Santorum to let Americans know what they are getting if he’s our next president (I agree with you his chances are very poor). I think the kind of argument we’re having about what’s on Romney’s platform is due to Romney’s inconsistent ideology, and I get the impression he’s just trying to win the office, rather than stand for a clear vision.

    Anyway, I also appreciate that your tone, though not always friendly, is intelligent and far less ghastly than some of the other people I’m arguing about Romney with, and I’ve done my best to respond to you with an equivalent tone.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  81. Dustin, ABO must always be top priority. Hold your nose, put a bag over your head; whatever. Vote Obama out!

    Icy (bedb4a)

  82. Amen

    Dustin (401f3a)

  83. Santorum is far from perfect, himself. When he talks about incentivizing the states — the old “dangle a stick disguised as a carrot” ploy* — I just want to pick up a 2×4 and whack him in the back of the head with it. But then we cannot look for perfection; we have to get better before we can achieve greatness.

    [* "incentivizing the states" is how we got our 'nationwide drinking age' and our 'nationwide smoking age'. The threat of losing federal funding presented in the guise of a promise to receive federal funding IF your state agrees to play ball on issue X. It's the Cosa Nostra without the broken bones -- just busted budgets.]

    Icy (bedb4a)

  84. Dustin likes to kick puppies.-Colonel Haiku

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  85. Sorry to interrupt the ABO Kumbaya moment but there’s a need for unity and enthusiasm that you won’t be seeing.

    You guys weren’t holding hands?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  86. Sorry to interrupt the ABO Kumbaya moment but there’s a need for unity and enthusiasm that you won’t be seeing.

    If you had told me, in 2009, that enthusiasm would be a problem for the GOP, I’d have checked you into a mental institution.

    Yet that is a worry.

    We’ll see what emerges. I think whether the nominee is any of the three remaining, Obama is going to go overboard attacking him and that will do wonders for unity.

    And if the nominee, all of whom have to say the conservative stuff now, KEEP saying it after nomination, that will go a long way towards showing they have a spine.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  87. Yes, we know, gulrud. None of the candidates come anywhere close to meeting your expectations.

    Icy (bedb4a)

  88. And I was not holding Dustin’s hand.

    I have a wide stance.

    Icy (bedb4a)

  89. 84. “say the conservative stuff now, KEEP saying it after nomination”

    That would be helpful, and running out the last furlong too.

    Ya know McVain and McBain sound the same in Spain.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  90. Education reform is opposed by the left because that means they can’t brainwash kids.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  91. 85. I wrote a very stern email in the wee hours to Michele saying if she waited until named Romany’s VP before endorsing I’d still respect her.

    But I wouldn’t vote for them anyway.

    That’s about as touchy feely as I get without puking.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  92. MSNBC floating anonymous hope:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46237040

    Read through the article and know that the headline is all the institutional investor is intended to remember.

    You know who this does not help.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  93. Allahpundit (HotAir), and linked by Glenn, have Trump endorsing Romney.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  94. Yes Icy we know you live in the Romney shrine on the 2nd floor of your mom’s house.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  95. 91. Taranto, a sharp cookie, has his own read:

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/02/trump-endorsement-tweet-of-the-day/

    About the only ‘broad spectrum’ endorsement of Romney I’ve seen was that of Issa’s, another very rich dude, and it came quite early ahead of the cannibalism and tardspeak.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  96. 91. Taranto, a sharp cookie, has his own read:

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/02/trump-endorsement-tweet-of-the-day/

    About the only ‘broad spectrum’ endorsement of Romney I’ve seen was that of Issa’s, another very rich dude, and it came quite early ahead of the cannibalism and tardspeak.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  97. Sorry, for the double posts, not the first, I’m a spaz and it happens, hope its not an early sign of Parkinson’s.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  98. Wasserman Schatz is an Arsehole.

    Snooki is fake like Obama.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  99. THINK ABOUT TEH CHILDREN.

    /Teachers union

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  100. Allahpundit (HotAir), and linked by Glenn, have Trump endorsing Romney.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS!

    Trump is like a caricature of the most goofy democrat’s impression of Romney. A phony cheesy rich bimbo who flip flops and likes to fire people.

    But I will forever be grateful to Trump for his role in bringing the birther issue to a full boil at a time that didn’t really do Obama a lick of good. It ruined something they had cooking.

    I was going to poke fun at Romney fans who had dissed the notion of attracting an endorsement like Trump’s when they were really just attacking everyone opposed to Romney

    Egomaniacs R Us: Trump to pick Newt
    By Jennifer Rubin

    Herman Cain, Texas Gov. Rick Perry, Sarah Palin and now, it seems, Donald Trump have lined up behind Newt Gingrich. It’s convenient to have a candidate like Gingrich who attracts the unserious, the unpresidential, the uninformed and the unpalatable all in one convenient locale.

    But damn… it’s just not that funny to me at this point. These people are all unserious and ignorant? Just because they don’t like Romney? Successful governors?

    Sheesh.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  101. LOL, Narciso, re Snooki.

    But is what our political environment looks like. Trump vs Snooki.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  102. As a reluctant Romney supporter I do find it discouraging that every thing this guy says is taken in it’s worst possible light by conservatives. All candidates say things that are not perfect soundbites occasionally. I would just like to support this guy so we can get rid of Obama. I think Romney is clearly our best bet right now, lets not be so eager to assume he will be a super lib once he gets into office. I am hoping for a positive surprise.
    Also lets get off the constant hammering of the “minimum wage” issue. it is only 7.25 an hour. Getting all outraged that it might go up a few cents a year for a cost of living increase just makes conservatives look bad. As a small businessman, I would be happy to concede this issue in exchange for tax and regulatory simplification. Unless you are hiring raw teenagers the minimum wage is not a big deal.

    Peter (bb33be)

  103. #17 noted Jesus soundbite gatherer in chief ran this portion of a verse by everyone: “From everyone who has been given much, much will be required” Actually I think Obama used his Black Liberation Theology Bible version which scrubs context

    And in context I don’t know who is the slave and who is doing the flogging.
    Well Obama is flogging us for more and more cash, so there is that.

    Here a better soundbite:

    “Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.”

    I actually agree with Romney about not paying inordinate attention to the poor. Focus on growing the economy, growing the middle class and the poor will have a better shot at getting a job and working their way out of poverty.
    But for christsakes if I’m going to have to vote for you, could you at least try to phrase it a little better next time?

    SteveG (e27d71)

  104. Peter reluctant my ass.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  105. Thank you, Peter. What other leftist ideals are you willing to cave in on for the veneer of electability? Cap and trade? RomneyCare for illegals? Random positions on abortion?

    JD (3d848c)

  106. Peter sounds as if he’s a member in good standing of the James Baker Pragmatist Wing of the GOP.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  107. Is peter willing to cave in to affirmative action for blacks?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  108. Or AA for Vietnamese boat-people?

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  109. Or impoverished, 8th-generation Appalachians?

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  110. Dyer at HotAir on the NotGOP wing of the Right. He may use Republican for Right but apart from FL the season can hardly be limited to partisans.

    http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2012/02/02/why-sarah-palin-is-right-about-having-a-competitive-primary-season/

    Yes, we need the process to continue for Romany’s sake, giving him every chance to buy a clue. Today Rove tells him to get specific, talk issues.

    Good luck with that rubes.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  111. An interesting take from the Cap’m on the seeming hudna between Romany and Ronaldus Paoulus:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2012/02/02/romney-and-paul-bffs/

    They are not after each other’s turf.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  112. The ABO argument for Romany amounts to ‘take some deep breaths you’re having a panic attack’:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2012/02/01/ten-things-you-should-do-if-youre-an-anybody-but-mitt-republican-and-one-you-should-not/

    Thanks I needed that, now give me something resembling gravitas and answer the damn question.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  113. And I was not holding Dustin’s hand.

    I have a wide stance.

    Comment by Icy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    the “good faith” lying
    lightly loafered coyote
    hysterical howl

    Colonel Haiku (e6abb6)

  114. Rasmussen doesn’t know what they said yesterday, let alone last week:

    http://www.sodahead.com/fun/number-of-americans-identifying-themselves-as-democrats-falls-to-new-low/blog-230431/

    They were using 35R 33D at the beginning of the year in polling and now its 34R 35.5D. Gallup has it more like 27R 33D.

    Not that they don’t end up with good estimates, just they must do a lot of fudging. Art not science.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  115. I think the best way to strengthen the party is to savage anyone that dares to criticize the annointed candidate, a man noxious to many conservatives.

    Comment by JD

    We’re early in the process, but this is a fairly sad description of one man/one vote. One might say it’s a cynicism unbecoming a “true conservative”.

    Colonel Haiku (e6abb6)

  116. Paul and Romney the big government are BFFS?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  117. Icy has a wide stance? OMFG MICHELLE OBAMA POSTS ON HERE.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  118. I suppose you can remove Mitts jewels from your mouth long enough to demonstrate where I claimed to be the true conservative?

    JD (3d848c)

  119. Or, in the alternative, make an affirmative case that Mitt is a conservative, based on his words, and backed up with actions.

    JD (3d848c)

  120. I would think that statement to be beneath you, JD. I understand you are disappointed, and I sense much frustration that, so far, the majority of voters don’t seem to agree with your perceptions.

    Who knows… your prospects may change. Keep your chin up… think positive thoughts.

    Colonel Haiku (e6abb6)

  121. 119. What.an.azzload.you.iz

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  122. So you can’t. Shocka.

    JD (3d848c)

  123. I’ll consider the truly excremental source of #120… badge of honor, Ole.

    Colonel Haiku (e6abb6)

  124. the “good faith” lying

    Yeah, I realize you’re just trolling, but the reason I have admitted I’m wrong a few times is because I’m not lying. If I get a figure wrong or I can’t back up a fact, I just own it.

    If something is a matter of opinion, I back it up.

    I’m only human.

    Now, I recall you saying I was lying about something and then spending a day refusing to back it up, ultimately backing it up with provably false claims.

    So if I tell the truth, you often call it lying while backing it up with lies.

    What I noticed about that exchange was that you weren’t interested in persuading a soul. You just wanted to ceaselessly troll everyone.

    Are you really a Romney supporter? Don’t you agree I have a point that your commentary of attacks and insults doesn’t actually help Romney? Either you’re an astonishingly poor debater, or you don’t actually want to help Romney win support.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  125. Continue flailing, JD. It’s probably good exercise for you.

    Colonel Haiku (e6abb6)

  126. I’m only human.

    You, sir, are a lying bunghole.

    Colonel Haiku (e6abb6)

  127. I asked Haiku, the guy who said I’m the prawn of arab loins, if he made the comment by “general major” about how middle eastern Americans need to be under the boot of a Romney supporter.

    I asked him straight, point blank, and he replied to that comment but did not answer the question.

    Why would a Romney fan try to persuade voters that I’m wrong about Romney with comments designed to outrage everyone? That kind of rhetoric is far beneath Romney, frankly, and I can’t stand Romney.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  128. Continue flailing, JD. It’s probably good exercise for you.

    Comment by Colonel Haiku

    He’s not flailing, though. He’s being pretty reserved, actually.

    This is supposed to encourage people to support Romney?

    I keep asking myself “how would a moby act in these threads” and keep realizing he would exact exactly like you. Of course, you could also just be some kind of nut.

    The fact is that there is at least one guy who is obsessed with this blog, who has explained he mobies to ceaselessly troll conservatives, and that he “establishes credibility” first before injecting the conversation with ugliness.

    It would be unfortunate if you are sincerely trying to help Romney, but so emotional about it that you’re tough to distinguish from a moby.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  129. Dustin, I have no interest in trying to convince you (that would be like taking a two by four to a mule) and you can kiss my ass all day long and twice on Sundays.

    Nor do I have an interest in influencing anyone else. You are all adults, decide for yourselves.

    Romney will never be the standard-bearer of capital “C” Conservatism… what he is is a problem solver… a guy who can turn things around… which in my estimation, is what this country sorely needs.

    You want a standard-bearer, look elsewhere.

    Colonel Haiku (e6abb6)

  130. Colonel Haiku evolved from a mendacious douschenozzle.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  131. “I can’t stand Romney.

    That is the only true statement you’ve made all day.

    Colonel Haiku (e6abb6)

  132. Yes we could have you Colonel you handsome man you.

    :wink: :shock:

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  133. I can’t stand romney but he looks good naked.

    Happy now?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  134. Sometimes when you trolls settle in here it ruins Patrick’s blog.

    In the past the comments were a place for a vigorous debate on a variety of subjects. But in an environment like you’ve created under this post, there is no purpose in reading through the comments.

    shipwreckedcrew (dd1bdb)

  135. Eric Holder-I will do all in my power to prevent those typical white whistleblowers from making me look like a fool.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  136. Dustin, I have no interest in trying to convince you

    I asked you a straight question twice now, and you’ve ducked it. It’s not surprising, since there aren’t any other racists here.

    Just tell me why you made that comment. Did I ever say anything justifying that?

    you can kiss my ass all day long and twice on Sundays.

    From all the gay fantasy comments you make, I’m not surprised.

    It’s interesting that the racist stuff came after you kept trying and trying and trying to get a reaction. You actually got angrier if I didn’t reply to you. Now that I reply to you, the clown nose comes off and you’re posing as a sober guy (while still making stupid attacks on people)

    what he is is a problem solver

    He didn’t solve any of MA’s problems. It’s not clear that he solved any problems when working for Bain because the only two things he’s noted he did was some vague job creation that’s largely exaggerated and the bailout claimed he made leading into his 1994 campaign (That he can’t made now because that’s unpopular behavior).

    He did a good job with the olympics, but what a minor, minor success.

    That is the only true statement you’ve made all day.

    Comment by Colonel Haiku

    You see how I specified specifically how you were dishonest? And how you can’t do that, and have to just vaguely say ‘you too!!!!’ like a child?

    Nor do I have an interest in influencing anyone else.

    Indeed, you have no interest in encouraging support for Romney. You do want people to associate ‘Romney supporter’ with the things you say, though. Maybe you’re such a nut you don’t understand this is counterproductive.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  137. For comparison to Romney, it might be useful to see where Obama’s focus is.Even the lefties (which Coates is unabashedly and unreservedly) understand that.

    JBS (38f6c3)

  138. I don’t even know what Romney’s “replace” for “repeal and replace obamacare” is.

    This assumes that Romney knows what “replace” will be.

    I found it grimly amusing that the best argument Patterico could find for supporting Romney–the only important difference between Romney and Obama–is that Romney would probably appoint less leftist judges (less both in numbers and degree of leftism) than Obama. Probably–he can’t even guarantee that, only state is as a highly probable event.

    The GOP establishment has done its best to ensure that the most leftward candidate available will be the nominee, after proffering as the most viable alternative a big mouth big government conservative. If small government conservative ever want to get an actual small government conservative elected as POTUS, I suspect they will first have to perform a metaphorical Night of the Long Knives on the GOP establishment

    JBS (38f6c3)

  139. Amen, JBS

    JD (3d848c)

  140. small government conservatives what aren’t fringey religious obsessives are few and far between

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  141. crappyfeet speak english.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  142. you can be very insensitive

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  143. No, that’s usually the reverse, name a non pro life conservative, who is a solid economic or foreign policy one,

    narciso (87e966)

  144. The GOP establishment has done its best to ensure that the most leftward candidate available will be the nominee

    It does feel that way sometimes.

    I personally think it’s the conservative movement that failed. Romney was (and IS) quite beatable. He is easy to rattle and he can’t run on his record. He runs on this persona thing where people just believe in him despite the vague promises, liberal record, and record of not solving MA’s problems because, hey, fighting democrats takes toughness (like a government shutdown and a blistering set of BS charges).

    Conservatives seemed to pick on the most conservative candidates, taking it for granted that they wouldn’t support the alternatives either. And now we’re left with three guys who all have some big government leanings in a year when cutting government is critical. I think Newt is the least bad, but I’m not exactly enthusiastic.

    What I do know about the GOP establishment is that it certainly does exist. We have bureacrats and office holders making ballot access needlessly more difficult (in VA, they even violated the constitution). Why? Because that makes ballot access very difficult for grassroots reform candidates who can’t take off in support and get the funds needed to jump through all the hoops until it’s too late to do so. It’s getting too much like how the Russians handle their ballot access.

    I also know that 1/4th of Romney’s financial support came from 41 people. That’s the opposite of the Tea Party.

    I also know that a lot of Republicans in the beltway are not serious about cutting this government down to size. They like the spoils. Even when the GOP ran the show, government did not get smaller.

    But I don’t blame the establishment for what’s happened. I don’t blame them for the negative attack. It’s up to conservatives to be more practical, earlier, and not reject great candidates unless they have a better one in mind.

    Now I am worried that we’re going to have third party drama. Obama must be defeated in November, or it will cement (via voter consent) a shredding of the constitution.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  145. No, that’s usually the reverse, name a non pro life conservative, who is a solid economic or foreign policy one,

    you’re not wrong

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  146. you have to come to terms with people being perhaps more religious than you’d like if you want any chance at all of America finding a path back to fiscal rationality

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  147. small government conservatives what aren’t fringey religious obsessives are few and far between

    Comment by happyfeet

    That’s why it’s called politics.

    Aside from the word fringe up there, these guys have to do the dog and pony show. And it’s not just small government conservatives. Obama is out there telling people how Jesus led him to Obamacare and confiscatory taxation scheems.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  148. you have to come to terms with people being perhaps more religious than you’d like if you want any chance at all of America finding a path back to fiscal rationality

    Comment by happyfeet

    That’s very reasonable of you.

    Mitch Daniels tried, I thought quite intelligently, to get a larger bloc of voters via a truce on everything but fiscal sanity.

    And we see how that worked out.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  149. That wasn’t going to work, for the above dynamic,
    I’ve described above. When people start complaining
    about the Religious Right, it’s almost certain they
    will jettison another leg of the stool in short order,

    narciso (87e966)

  150. I was grievously harsh to Mr. Daniels in the wake of what I thought was a disappointing speech

    that was wrong of me

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  151. This is america not stupidland crappyabortion.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  152. It was a poor choice of words, that provoked the reaction he wanted to avoid,

    narciso (87e966)

  153. yes Mr. narciso but on reflection we all knew what he meant, bless his heart

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  154. Honestly?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  155. 139. “metaphorical Night of the Long Knives on the GOP establishment”

    I have trouble with abstractions. Does this mean I get to use my icepick?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  156. I have a new song Mr. biden!

    it’s time our little country scampered free of the clutches of this interminable and soul-withering Obama winter

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  157. I also know that a lot of Republicans in the beltway are not serious about cutting this government down to size. They like the spoils. Even when the GOP ran the show, government did not get smaller

    I was going to say that, but thought it sounded too cynical. But I think you are right.

    And because of how the GOP operates, I think there’s even a conservative argument for voting for Obama. It’s premised on three things:
    –the fact that Obama would certainly be out of there in 2016, whereas Romney would be presumably in until 2020
    –the belief that the GOP establishment will support almost everything Romney does (rather like they did GWBush) because party loyalty matters more to them than anything else, whereas it will oppose everything Obama does just like it is doing now
    –the belief conservatives won’t be able to mount a viable offense against the GOP establishment when it does this, in part because the GOP establishment will manipulate enough conservatives into apathetic non-opposition, if not outright partisan support.

    I would be glad to be persuaded that the third factor is wrong, but at the moment I think that’s a realistic assessment of the GOP.

    I would say, by the way, that voter consent to shredding the Constitution was given a long time ago. The last actual conservative I would name as President would be Reagan.

    JBS (38f6c3)

  158. No, that’s a very silly notion, you know how much damage he could cause in 4 years, with the full implementation of Obamacare, perhaps cap n trade,
    card check, the Supreme Ct.

    narciso (87e966)

  159. putting our little country through four more years of vicious rape and condescension would be fine I guess if we were all consenting adults

    but you have to think of the children Mr. JBS

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  160. And because of how the GOP operates, I think there’s even a conservative argument for voting for Obama. It’s premised on three things:
    –the fact that Obama would certainly be out of there in 2016, whereas Romney would be presumably in until 2020
    –the belief that the GOP establishment will support almost everything Romney does (rather like they did GWBush) because party loyalty matters more to them than anything else, whereas it will oppose everything Obama does just like it is doing now
    –the belief conservatives won’t be able to mount a viable offense against the GOP establishment when it does this, in part because the GOP establishment will manipulate enough conservatives into apathetic non-opposition, if not outright partisan support.

    Such arguments are bound to get a very negative response, but I understand where you’re coming from here and it’s worth serious discussion.

    If the GOP is not going to do what must be done, well, we have to consider alternative ways to do what must be done. Spending and entitlement reform is not optional.

    I think Obama has sufficiently done wrong that he just plain has got to go. We could nominate Jimmy Carter and I’d vote against Obama.

    But your view is a lot less crazy than some will think it is, and that’s a huge problem for the GOP in November.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  161. – That was supposed to be “plant” instead of “any” (stupid iPhone!) And if Romney isn’t a capitalist, what is he then?

    I guess you missed the “Just kidding.”

    Alright. Forget the whole Bain thing. Assume that everything that Romney did at Bain was on the up and up. Wonderful manager, everyone came up roses. It really has been explored as much as Gingrich’s marriages and doesn’t really pertain to the issues at hand. Although I still think it makes him weak in the General.

    The problem remains: Mitt still has no plan for what to do that is adequate to averting the coming disaster(s). Geez, if I can overlook Newt’s many flaws, I can sure overlook Mitt’s corporate sheen and lack of values. But I cannot overlook his blandness and lack of ideas. He aspires to be Eisenhower or Clinton at a time when we need a Washington or Lincoln or Churchill.

    I don’t know that Newt is up to that task (although I’m sure that Newt does). I hope so, because there is no one else in the offing except him or Mitt and it ain’t Mitt.

    The only case I see for Mitt is if Newt isn’t up to the task either. In that case Mitt will slow the decline as a holding action until we can find better. But we could (and usually do) find worse.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  162. –the fact that Obama would certainly be out of there in 2016, whereas Romney would be presumably in until 2020

    I guess you missed the “stop digging” part of the Rule of Holes. If the country is in ruin in 2016, who cares that Obama is leaving office? Assuming that he doesn’t stay on out of “duty”, the country being too messed up for a divisive election.

    I’ll say this for Mitt, I don’t think he’ll leave the country in ruin. He may well leave the country unrepaired, but the decline will be much shallower.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  163. “He didn’t solve any of MA’s problems. It’s not clear that he solved any problems when working for Bain because the only two things he’s noted he did was some vague job creation that’s largely exaggerated and the bailout claimed he made leading into his 1994 campaign (That he can’t made now because that’s unpopular behavior).

    He did a good job with the olympics, but what a minor, minor success.”

    Dustin – Great examples of your objective analysis. Why do you think investors kept sending money to invest with Bain Capital if they were not achieving good results? Oh, I know, there is no proof that as CEO, Romney had any responsibility for the actual results, right?

    Any progress in tracking down the taxpayer cash from Romney’s loan renegotiation with the FDIC?

    How about Romney paying off the other campaigns not to criticize him and rigging the Virginia ballot access rules to personally benefit himself? How did those bits of objective analysis work out for you?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  164. ABORTION IS NOT HEALTHCARE EUGENICIST BLOOMBERG!!!

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  165. No, that’s a very silly notion, you know how much damage he could cause in 4 years, with the full implementation of Obamacare, perhaps cap n trade,
    card check, the Supreme Ct.

    Understood. But however leftist his agenda is, it would be opposed at full strength by the GOP. Whereas a Romney agenda would not be very much to the right of Obama, and would be supported in loyal partisan lapdog fashion by the GOP.

    To give a specific example: if Romney is elected, you will see in 2013 the individual mandate and all the other bad stuff of Obamacare, slightly repackaged and with new terminology so the establishment doesn’t have to admit a complete doubleface, supported by the GOP establishment and conservatives thumped into obedient line if and when they object on the grounds that they’re getting in the way of a historic bipartisan solution to an immense national problem, and after all we have to focus on reconquering Afghanistan after Obama left Aghanistan for the natives to settle among themselves.

    I would of course be glad to have this prediction turn out to be wildly inaccurate, but I’m pessimistic on that score.

    BTW, I also think in the long run focusing on the debt, entitlement reform, etc. is bad strategy. “We can’t afford big government” is a practical argument, to be answered by other practical arguments (ie, reform entitlements, raise taxes, raise taxes again). I’m more focused on regulatory sprawl–on government intruding on areas it should not be. My problem with Obamacare is not that government will spend too much on health care (the health insurance mess in this country is already a job killer, and needs to be fixed–and if Obamacare is the only solution on offer, then Obamacare is what you will get) as that government should be involved in health care in the first place.

    JBS (46fd97)

  166. Anyone in love with the Perons and their modern day counterpart can go eff themselves.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  167. Comment by Kevin M — 2/2/2012 @ 8:15 pm
    To use your “digging a hole” terminology:
    If Obama is re-elected, the GOP will out of partisan interest do whatever it can to interfere with the digging. If Romney is elected, he will continue digging, and while he may dig at a slower rate, the GOP will not only not interfere, but offer to take over if he gets tired from all that work.

    I differ from you, I suppose, in my assessment of how bad Romney would be–you apparently better of him than I do.

    I would have voted for Perry, possibly for Santorum or Gingrich (I distrust their big government propensities, especially Gingrich). If Romney is the nominee, I’m almost certain to vote for the Libertarian Party, in the same “pox on both your houses” mode as I did in 2004 and 2008.

    JBS (46fd97)

  168. it has nothing to do with Romney

    Romney is mostly guilty of showing up

    something the teadoodles never got around to doing

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  169. The left have a lot of nerve to complain about the left’s lack of proper english.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  170. Dustin – Great examples of your objective analysis

    When did I present myself as objective? Why do you so consistently claim I’m saying things I’m not saying? In fact, you claim I say the exact opposite of what I say.

    I freely admit I have a great bias against Romney because of his flip flop on abortion, which showed me a serious character defect (I think going THAT far for political expediency is quite twisted), and also because of Romneycare, the gun tax, Romney’s tax hikes, and the spending.

    I just don’t like this guy’s leadership, and I am not objective about it at all.

    YOU, on the other hand actually are quite guilty of claiming you’re just a fair player here defending any Republican from ‘smears’. Which is absurd, as you’ve contributed to the ‘Perry is gay’ whisper campaign and the ‘smears’ you protect Romney from turn out to be true.

    How about Romney paying off the other campaigns not to criticize him and rigging the Virginia ballot access rules to personally benefit himself? How did those bits of objective analysis work out for you?

    Comment by daleyrocks

    Do you have a link to me saying that?

    Of course not.

    Why do you need to make things up? I think the VA process was quite bad, but I never claimed Romney personally rigged it. You’re LYING. I think T Paw taking money from a candidate he just endorsed undermines the endorsement, but I never said Romney was paying off other candidates to not criticize him. You’re LYING.

    Any progress in tracking down the taxpayer cash from Romney’s loan renegotiation with the FDIC?

    Loan renegotiation. HA. When a business goes to the government saying it will go bankrupt if they don’t get some money, and they get millions, I prefer the term ‘bailout’. I guess you don’t like that term if it applies to Romney, Mr Objectivity Police.

    And you were absolutely crushed in the other thread on your taxpayer point.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  171. I assume you think Electric cars are good for our air too Daleykos?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  172. Dustin – Sorry for misspelling your handle. I don’t speak for all parents on either side of the debate and neither do you. What is obvious is that Perry’s onerous opt out procedure for the government needle of sex, making it a quasi mandate, was what was objectionable to a large number of people. For some reason, creepy panty sniffer EPWJ and Rick Perry think the sex lives of our teenage girls should involve the government through a mandate process. Who is in/who is out. Given creepy panty sniffer EPWJ’s comments about the sex lives of Bristol Palin and her mother, I really don’t want to speculate further on his reasons.

    Comment by daleyrocks

    Now Daleyrocks complains about my objectivity because I criticized his record by citing things that actually happened.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  173. P P P P Perry why you stuttering

    st t t t t t top

    m m m m makin’

    f f f f f un

    ub

    me

    d d d d dag

    n n n n nab

    it

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  174. He wasn’t making fun of Perry, Happyfeet. He was just punching back twice as hard, and he doesn’t know how to do so without being disgusting and dishonest.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  175. Ecomorons trashing oil companies and Bush?

    Figures.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  176. I just think the tragi-comic arc of Perry’s abortive stab at the presidency would make for a fun fun Christopher Guest movie is all

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  177. LOL

    Well, I was very disappointed by his run.

    I wonder if other candidates would have run, had Perry not (and I don’t mean Palin).

    T Paw also didn’t measure up, but I expected Perry to be a lot better than T Paw.

    As you say, all romney is guilty of is showing up.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  178. It really did seem he didn’t put too much effort into it, I don’t know if the back surgery really plays into it,

    narciso (87e966)

  179. Mr. Dustin a lot of the people who are whining about Romney now were the first out of the gate to get their gardasil outrage on

    a bird in the hand don’t beat a redux of Bush

    but try telling them that.

    Perry’s problem though was he panicked.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  180. Perry’s problem though was he panicked.

    Comment by happyfeet

    I don’t think I understand his problems well enough because I’m so out of touch with what people seem to like in politicians these days.

    I think Narciso sadly has a point. My understanding is they didn’t do much debate prep and didn’t have oppositional research done on their own candidate.

    They got hit very hard. Perry was not prepared for it.

    The cold reality is that flip floppers and liberals will have a much easier time in debates moderated by CNN and MSNBC. Conservative candidates attract all the attention from the conservative pundits, and for some reason, they seem to reject these guys without any better options in mind.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  181. I wish I could get a loan renegotiation where I can walk away with the assets and the FDIC walks away with the liabilities.

    No wonder the FDIC was borrowing hundreds of millions from the treasury (the taxpayers) that year. They weren’t very good negotiators for the taxpayer’s best interests. But hey, who cares? They don’t work for us.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  182. he ditched his 10th amendment messagings for about half a dozen new constitutional amendments

    then he decided his monster truck prayer rally was insufficient cred so he decided to throw US soldiers under the bus, which was rather obviously something he hadn’t thought through

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  183. Yeah, that sort of thing annoyed even his most loyal supporters.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  184. you have to come to terms with people being perhaps more religious than you’d like if you want any chance at all of America finding a path back to fiscal rationality
    Comment by happyfeet — 2/2/2012 @ 6:24 pm

    – How many people here have a problem with fiscal conservatives being ‘more religious than you’d like’?

    Show of hands?

    Icy (bedb4a)

  185. lockstep is never not good for one thing it’s very tidy

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  186. – How many people here have a problem with fiscal conservatives being ‘more religious than you’d like’?

    Touche’, but Perry did go off track with some of that. I never saw the problem with his prayer rally, but he did move on to some social issues. Frankly, I agree with Perry on just about all of that stuff, but I wanted him to go down fighting on the reforms he envisioned.

    I guess I’m saying that politicians should realize that if America isn’t buying their essential product, they can’t fix that mid-stream with a little stab in another direction.

    This is Newt’s biggest problem, too, though he’s not deviating for social issues so much as he’s just deviating.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  187. Leftys make excuses for drug traffickers.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  188. I found it grimly amusing that the best argument Patterico could find for supporting Romney–the only important difference between Romney and Obama–is that Romney would probably appoint less leftist judges (less both in numbers and degree of leftism) than Obama. Probably–he can’t even guarantee that, only state is as a highly probable event.

    – I believe that what Mr Patterico said is that SCOTUS appointments are reason enough to vote for Romney, not ‘the only reason’ to vote for him.

    Icy (bedb4a)

  189. or, to vote against Obama

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  190. Dustin seems to think I have a problem with my prior comments. I don’t. I have a problem, as usual, with his mischaracterization of them. He can’t seem to help himself.

    “and Romney ain’t doing so bad either, Aaron. Look, if Perry is the nominee, I can and will support him. But think twice when your opinions line up with Eric “PeeWee” Johnson.
    Comment by ColonelHaiku

    Both Perry and Romney are huge upgrades over Obama. Both are intelligent men with a very similar agenda. I just know one has walked the walk a lot. One has a record of tax and spending increases in a boom, the other of spending cuts and handling downturns fairly well.
    I definitely prefer Perry, and I don’t see EPWJ’s comments as any kind of problem.
    And I do think Romney’s polls are interesting. He lost a lot of support very quickly. His supporters seemed itchy for another option.
    Romney is highly electable. But I really like Perry’s simple argument. I think he’s got a more plausible case.
    Comment by Dustin — 9/12/2011 @ 5:40 pm”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  191. More Dustin support of EPWJ:

    “Anyway, Eric isn’t a troll. He, like me, can take it to the next level when defending himself or someone he respects. I recognize it because I’m susceptible. Eric brings an interesting POV, but in this case, I disagree with him. JD’s obviously a great commenter, and his tendency to inject humor into things is not a problem from my point of view.

    Comment by Dustin — 12/23/2011 @ 5:36 pm”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  192. – How many people here have a problem with fiscal conservatives being ‘more religious than you’d like’?

    None, I’d guess. I do have a problem with social conservatives being more spendthrift than I’d like, though. See Bush, GW and perhaps Santorum.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  193. – I believe that what Mr Patterico said is that SCOTUS appointments are reason enough to vote for Romney, not ‘the only reason’ to vote for him.

    And here I agree with Icy. But I have to note that ‘settling’ is different from ‘preferring’ or ‘desiring’.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  194. I just think the tragi-comic arc of Perry’s abortive stab at the presidency would make for a fun fun Christopher Guest movie is all
    Comment by happyfeet — 2/2/2012 @ 9:26 pm

    – “Best In Showtunes”
    – “A Mighty Whiff”
    – “For Your Temporary Consideration”
    “Attack of the 50 Ft. Woman” [i denounce meself]

    Icy (bedb4a)

  195. “Why do you need to make things up? I think the VA process was quite bad, but I never claimed Romney personally rigged it. You’re LYING”

    Dustin – Here’s a taste of a few of your comments on the subject:

    I think overzealous purging of Perry’s petitions might maybe sort of be on purpose.

    I hope you’re wrong, Sarah, but that’s a real possibility.

    Unfortunately, we have a system full of snakes. A lot of the excessive behavior often seems to revolve around the moderates (Which is the opposite of what I’d suspect).

    At the end of the day, any outcome where the voters don’t get to vote on the legit candidate is a wrong outcome.

    Hindsight is 20:20, and I don’t think people expected VA to make the calls made this year for scrutinizing ballots to the degree they have. I also think a variety of other factors have made things much more difficult for candidates who didn’t run in 2008 (schedule changes, for example).

    Comment by Dustin — 12/24/2011 @ 6:29 pm”

    “And that part is completely on the shoulders of the establishment.

    To be clear, I don’t think ‘the fix is in’.

    I just think screwing around a lot is naturally going to favor the guys who have been running for many years over the outsider reformer guys. Not even really talking about anyone specific.

    then so could the others, if they had tried to do a good job

    I wonder. Had Perry come up with 15k, whose to say Romney wouldn’t have had 17k, and that have been the threshold. Again, that sounds more conspiratorial than I intend.

    And 10,000 signatures in a state the size of Virginia, in a campaign for national office, does not sound unreasonable to me. Nor does the requirement for 400 signatures per district.

    I disagree. Why should someone be kept off the ballot if they can’t get 400 signatures in each district? What if they can only manage that in half the districts, or all but the most liberal one? That simply tests those with a political machine in place rather than actual candidate strength (And no, these are not the same thing).

    This is a crude proxy at best for a leader’s abilities. It’s akin to having them run a marathon or simply give the state a million dollars. We have a way of choosing who wins elections, and that’s based on letting the voters vote on candidates. I think a modest filing fee is sufficient.

    I think the constitution sets up enough requirements for the office as it is. Let the voters take it from there.

    Comment by Dustin — 12/24/2011 @ 8:01 pm”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  196. “And you [daley] were absolutely crushed in the other thread on your taxpayer point.”

    Comment by Dustin — 2/2/2012 @ 8:55 pm

    teh “victory mince” – once thought to be a characteristic of liberals, rear its pinhead again.

    Colonel Haiku (1ae0d7)

  197. I just think the tragi-comic arc of Perry’s abortive stab at the presidency would make for a fun fun Christopher Guest movie is all
    Comment by happyfeet — 2/2/2012 @ 9:26 pm

    – “Best In Showtunes”
    – “A Mighty Whiff”
    – “For Your Temporary Consideration”
    – “Attack of the 50 Ft. Woman” [i denounce meself]

    Comment by Icy — 2/3/2012

    “Waiting For Gomerman”

    Colonel Haiku (1ae0d7)

  198. ‘Late Thursday night, as the political world was obsessing over fallout from Mitt Romney’s “not concerned about the very poor” remarks, the Obama campaign was scandalized by something else Romney said in the wake of victory in Florida. What distressed the president’s re-election team was Romney’s vow to defeat Barack Obama in November.

    In a grammatically uneven fundraising email, Obama national finance director Rufus Gifford wrote, “Mitt Romney said just hours after winning the Florida GOP win [sic] primary this week that: ‘We must not forget what this election is really about: defeating Barack Obama.’”

    “Mitt’s words weren’t an accident,” Gifford continued. “They’re what he really believes.”

    Well, yes, they are. Republicans, Romney included, do in fact want to defeat Obama. In each stump appearance, Romney discusses his desire to restructure economic policy to help create jobs, to reduce federal spending, and to strengthen U.S. foreign policy. To accomplish those goals, Romney stresses, he must first defeat Obama.

    Giffords is upset that the Romney campaign has created a “One-Term Fund” to raise money for the effort to defeat the president. The fund’s name comes from Obama’s statement three years ago about his administration’s effort to improve the economy: “If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a one-term proposition,” Obama said. Romney often mentions that on the stump.’

    http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/136539/

    Colonel Haiku (1ae0d7)

  199. Liar, liar pants afire:

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-03/bernanke-says-he-won-t-trade-inflation-goal-for-more-job-growth.html

    At this point Ben will take any bloomin thing he can get.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  200. Bernanke is like a bond villain.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  201. No, he’s Mike Myers’s parody of a bond villain,

    narciso (87e966)

  202. Ugh I really dislike astroturfing and Romney uses it a good bit.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  203. More gobierno fraud:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/non-farm-payrolls-soar-243k-unemployment-rate-drops-83

    Not the Fast and Furious sort, just the steady inexorable insidious variety.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  204. 206. Aha!, they used most of the January decline in population to rebalance jobs and just titched the U3 a tenth.

    How are they going to make the magic 8% by November, just flat-out lie this week and revise 0.5% upward November week 2?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  205. 205. This is what I cannot abide, just assume the Dimmi normal as the baseline and anything whatever vapourously positive is GOP empty calories to the good.

    $38 Billion in real Boehner CR2011 cuts became $400 Million in 2011 spending decline.

    Not only not good enough, an identifiable, locatable Enemy of Amerikkka in the WH is preferable to a Vichy collaborator undermining body and soul.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  206. I’m sure our new aspiring Ant Overlord will be congratulating the president, any moment now.

    narciso (87e966)

  207. Not waiting for the SMOD:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2095599/New-York-Times-loses-40million-2011.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

    Bad news for the Collective–the end of the duck in the barrel shoot on the horizon?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  208. 211. I actually used to read the IHT online, Vinocur was worth more than the NYT sum:

    “The company, which rolled out an online pay system last year for digital subscribers, said paid digital subscribers of The Times and the International Herald Tribune rose 20 per cent from the third quarter to about 390,000.”

    We sucking air when the Enquirer is earning Pulitzers and the Daily Mail is our source for news.

    Like the photog tho.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  209. 211. I actually used to read the IHT online, Vinocur was worth more than the NYT sum:

    “The company, which rolled out an online pay system last year for digital subscribers, said paid digital subscribers of The Times and the International Herald Tribune rose 20 per cent from the third quarter to about 390,000.”

    We sucking air when the Enquirer is earning Pulitzers and the Daily Mail is our source for news.

    Like the photog tho.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  210. Damn, where’s the keystroke duration setting, this has got to stop.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  211. Religious people should be fiscal conservatives.
    Note the admonition against borrowing from the Chinese and towards being a powerful nation

    Deut. 15 4-6

    4 However, there need be no poor people among you, for in the land the LORD your God is giving you to possess as your inheritance, he will richly bless you, 5 if only you fully obey the LORD your God and are careful to follow all these commands I am giving you today. 6 For the LORD your God will bless you as he has promised, and you will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. You will rule over many nations but none will rule over you.

    SteveG (e27d71)

  212. if lawmakers are fiscally conservative then that’s the most important thing, right now especially

    we’re in big trouble fiscally, our little country is

    the situation is so dire that even lawmakers what maybe are a little more enthused about the social issues than people might like still have a valuable contribution to make

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  213. How dare we not shut Socons up.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  214. Lots of folks have tried to lead the country from Congress, most lately that Gingrich guy. Problem is that 535 egos are hard to corral. A lot like herding cats. Most of the time you get crap like the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  215. 216. Just to add fuel to the fire:

    You are roughly here.

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr151.pdf

    US and Japanese debt held by someone $30 Trillion. Mrs. Wananabe held 95% of Nipponese paper but it earns 1% and she’s entered the tail on her pension and Japan must shop her debt abroad.

    Italy is rolling over $94 Billion the first 3 months of 2012:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/eurusd-tumbles-rumor-papademos-resignation-eurogroup-meeting-delay

    While MS sets its target for the euro at $1.15, so those holding Italian debt are losing money and therefore looking for better from the next round in yeilds.

    I know it’s just a statistic but “1.2 million people dropped out of the labor force in one month”. With Europe set to contract 4%, the euro to decline 20% over a year, good bye US exports.

    Goodbye US tax revenues, but you’ll feel them more:

    “inflation is back, as the [ISM] report states that “Corrugated Cartons is the only commodity reported down in price.” What was up? “Airfares; Beef; Chemical Products; Chicken; Crab; Coffee (2); #1 Diesel Fuel (2); #2 Diesel Fuel (3); Fuel; Gasoline; Medical Supplies (2); Paper; Petroleum Based Products; Resin Based Products; Vehicles; and Wire.” In other news, factory order missed expectations of a 1.5% increase, coming in at 1.1%.”

    The only reason inflation is not worse, that mortgages are a record low, is the Fed is buying 80% of the debt the Treasury issues.

    Stagflation has crossed the threshold, hyperinflation knocks at the open door.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  216. inflation all ben ever wanted

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  217. Willard: Manage the Decline, “the economy is improving but Obama cannot take credit, its just the business cycle.”

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  218. 218. Dang, that spitoon wasn’t where I left it(swallow).

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  219. politico waited all the way to paragraph 4 before dropping “weird cult” in

    their restrain is admirable I think

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  220. t

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  221. Stealing the thunder before Rumplestiltskin stirs:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203711104577199113513037068.html?mod=WSJ_article_forsub

    GOP, party of Wall Street insiders.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  222. daleyrocks, what you originally asserted I had said is something your later quotes show I specifically noted I was not saying.

    This is the third time in a row you’ve lied about my comments while whining that I was ‘misleading’ people to quote you directly saying disgusting things.

    These arguments haven’t gone well for you, and you’re flailing.

    You will not be able to find me being disgusting, and I will be able to show you being disgusting whenever I need to explain why you have no credibility.

    Your only supporter on this kind of smear will be colonel haiku, because your comments are dishonest and ugly attacks, and he’s the fan of that sort of thing.

    Thanks for playing.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  223. Not just another pretty blond mouthpiece:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203889904577199203982513234.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

    -/4 at worst but change the makeup and Boner dum de dum dump.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  224. -/+ 4

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  225. Ohh NOOoooo!!!

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MASSACHUSETTS_SENATE_BROWN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-02-02-20-04-34

    Willard ‘No Coat Tails’ Mitt’s hand is tipped and we’re 10 months from the tape.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  226. Gary, I don’t see a lot of politicians in real electoral contests seeking Mitt’s coat-tails.

    It’s revealing that at the end of his term as governor, his endorsements consistently lost state elections.

    There are other blue states, like Delaware, where a Republican governor is able to get credibility because he solves problems and was a great leader. But this single term in one office before flip flopping on so many matters in a bid for the next one can undermine the notion the leader was interested in results. It makes one think the politician saw each role as a stepping stone.

    It worries me that Romney’s political success is not reflected in anything that has actually happened… it’s just something Ms Rubin envisions.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  227. Scott Brown continues to disappoint. I think SuperPACs should make a point of advertising in this contest.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  228. Rottweilers know when you shiver it means you’re about to soil yourself:

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/01/carville-romney-doesnt-understand-conservative-doctrine-i-happen-to-live-with-it-in-my-house/

    Electable.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  229. Unfortunately he just made a pledge with ‘Red’ Liz
    to keep that money out of the state

    whitey bulger (87e966)

  230. 231. “political success is not reflected in anything that has actually happened”

    Mini-dittoes for Christie, RGGI if it comes totally over his obstruction, Moran in CT got his full support, nada, Castle, nada, some stiff in OH, who remembers?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  231. 232) and he vouched for Obama, then whined about how
    ‘we’re dying over here’ during the Gulf spill.

    narciso (87e966)

  232. Did Politico do any extensive stories on Reverend Wright?

    Icy (dbb3da)

  233. “daleyrocks, what you originally asserted I had said is something your later quotes show I specifically noted I was not saying.

    This is the third time in a row you’ve lied about my comments while whining that I was ‘misleading’ people to quote you directly saying disgusting things.

    These arguments haven’t gone well for you, and you’re flailing.”

    Dustin – Whatever you say, Excitable Boy. Open your good eye.

    I appreciate it that you’re not getting all emotional again. I’m just sitting here crushed and flailing from the lack of knowledge you displayed last night on the “States of Disapproval” thread.

    What did you say about schoolyard taunts before, oh yeah;

    School yard taunts are pathetic. We’re talking about the future of this great country. This isn’t professional wrestling.

    Bonus emotion and hypocrisy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Now if you care to specify which comments you claim don’t provide the support which you believe is needed, perhaps I can help you out.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  234. Did Politico do any extensive stories on Reverend Wright?

    Comment by Icy

    They are pretty ridiculous in what they will cover.

    Because their audience is largely folks who already are pretty well informed (politics junkies) they are less insidious than the TV news programs, but they are at least as biased.

    Obama has left would should be a journalist’s dream of juicy scandals and weird background. Rev Wright is a good example, but I think it pales in comparison to Solyndra, Fast and Furious, the Libyan invasion’s unconstitutionality, recess appointments, and of course, the 1014 days without a freaking budget.

    Newt’s ethics charges, long since debunked, and Rick’s family, and Mitt’s flip floppery all seem incredibly less interesting news than Obama’s record, and it’s no surprise that the few news outlets that cover the more interesting stories are much more successful.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  235. Good one Carville.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  236. gary gulrud – Scott Brown voted for Romneycare but against Obamacare. Why would he do that if they are both the same as you and the Distortomatic clique all claim? Does he know something you all don’t?

    From the AP article:

    “BOSTON (AP) — During the 2010 special election to fill the seat left vacant by the death of U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy, then-candidate Scott Brown vowed to be the “41st” vote against President Barack Obama’s sweeping health care overhaul.

    Two years later, the Republican Massachusetts senator still opposes what he calls “Obamacare” but has found a lot more to love about the Democratic president and his agenda.”

    “Not only is Brown is the only GOP member of the state’s congressional delegation, but Democrats hold every other statewide seat in Massachusetts; Gov. Deval Patrick is a close ally of Obama.”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  237. Dustin – Whatever you say, Excitable Boy. Open your good eye.

    I don’t think criticizing your pattern of lying, which I have proven, is proof I’m excitable.

    Rather, I think that you are writing comments with bold letters and dozens of exclamation points claiming things about me that I so easily show are untrue shows you’re excitable.

    I was pretty clear in the last thread. I wanted you to clear the air. The comment I quoted was one of many. I could go and put together a list of a bunch of nastiness and dishonesty from you, but it’s not worth it.

    Clearly you aren’t interested in taking responsibility for what you’ve said. You’d rather just try to make a big mess by accusing me of saying a series of things I specifically disclaimed I wasn’t saying or even argued the exact of.

    If I were going to attack you for a comment you said, I would verify you said it first. But I’m really giving you too much benefit of the doubt. The reason you’re saying untrue things so consistently is because you are intend to.

    I’m sure you will reply, yet again, with a hysterical rant full of insults but including no actual argument, and hope you got the last word.

    But you should know me better than that. I’ll be quoting you again when I want to prove, so easily, how little credibility you have.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  238. Mother Theresa was far from perfect but she shouldn’t be trashed by lefty hypocrites.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  239. Pardon all my typos. I should have cared more about this to proofread, but I just don’t.

    gary gulrud – Scott Brown voted for Romneycare but against Obamacare. Why would he do that if they are both the same as you and the Distortomatic clique all claim? Does he know something you all don’t?

    That’s very simplistic.

    Romney said he supported and sustained Roe v Wade and also said he wanted to overturn Roe v Wade. Why would he do that if they are both the same as I claim?

    BTW, I never claimed Obamacare and Romneycare are exactly the same. Why does daleyrocks have to lie about what other people say in order to ‘argue’ with them?

    I know, every time I point it out, Daleyrocks will pretend it doesn’t show he’s an hysterical idiot.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  240. The cure for WH Bolshevism is Big Tent Menshevism.

    The cure for cardboard cutout Presentency by Politburo is department store Mannequism by unelected Directorship.

    The cure for Sully is Jenny.

    What a Brave New World.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  241. School yard taunts are pathetic. We’re talking about the future of this great country. This isn’t professional wrestling.

    And yes, Daleyrocks, this is how I feel. Your attempt to beat Eric at the game of smearing candidates didn’t just affect Eric, because of lot of people who weren’t Eric read this blog. A lot of people who supported Rick Perry didn’t appreciate it. BTW, I am asserting, because I know, that I’m not the only person who found that kind of comment execrable. But when I remarked to about this, you doubled down instead of backing off.

    I’ve had to back off too sometimes. I just say “I apologize” and do my best to live up to some ideals. That’s why I mean in the comment you quoted. It’s pathetic to call presidential candidates perverts and gay just to feed into whisper campaigns. I’ve never done anything resembling that to Romney, as you know, but I’ve gotten angry too and had to dial it back.

    In fact, I’ve often tried to meet you halfway and phrase my criticisms with admissions nobody, including myself, is perfect.

    But you don’t respond well to that, and you respond even worse to my turning the other cheek. I’d say it’s beneath you to repeatedly lie about what I’ve said, but this thread and the last show that is exactly you.

    I forgive you for that, and I realize you’re a lot more affected by this than I am. Hopefully you figure that out.

    Finally, defending Romney as tirelessly and to the extent you do is bound to draw a lot of flack, especially because the case against Romney, ideologically, is solid as a rock. I’m glad there are folks defending Romney because it keeps things interesting, but you’ve got to have thicker skin. The way you react to Romney criticisms is often just not healthy.

    Anyway, if I catch you lying about me, I’m going to explain that. In the future, perhaps you should quote me when explaining how I’m wrong instead of coming up with some straw man version of what I said, or indeed the opposite of what I said, to sneer at that.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  242. Here it is folks, the answer for Loose Lips McBain:

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/want-to-see-the-worlds-biggest-caliber-rifle-in-action/

    I’m thinkin of practice knocking down minarets on a DC trip planned for spring. Taking the Gauntlet bus.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  243. Daleykos is an twerp.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  244. “I was pretty clear in the last thread. I wanted you to clear the air.”

    Pardon me, but you do that by claiming I said something I clearly did not say, a common tactic of yours and hardly a good faith effort on clearing the air. This morning I find you again calling me a liar after providing support for something I said which does not match up with your Milhousian restatement of my words. Good faith, no.

    “Clearly you aren’t interested in taking responsibility for what you’ve said.”

    I’m happy to take responsibility for what I actually said, not your restatements of what you claim I said. We have been through this many times.

    “BTW, I never claimed Obamacare and Romneycare are exactly the same.”

    In September you admitted there were significant differences between the two. Do you believe you stuck to that story? Do you really want to go down that road?

    “I forgive you for that, and I realize you’re a lot more affected by this than I am. Hopefully you figure that out.”

    I will pray for you Dustin.

    “Anyway, if I catch you lying about me, I’m going to explain that.”

    As I will continue to do with you.

    Now I think it’s time to put you back on ignore for a while, since you obviously can’t handle being challenged.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  245. Our Public education is good because um er um kids don’t drop out of school or something.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  246. And it’s all the right’s fault that kids drop out of school.

    /Liberals

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  247. Another reason Willard ‘some way or another we will have to address home values’ is just a useless, evolutionarily outdated, diminutive appendage(Feet’s ‘appendix’):

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/kiss-foreclosure-settlement-goodbye-bank-america-wells-and-jp-morgan-are-sued-over-use-mers

    The banks understandably in complying with da Feds, had to hurry up the paper trail. Unfortunately, they did not wait for Congress, that calcified impediment to efficiency in implementation of their own stupidity–subprime sepuku.

    Now $25 Billion is not enough to pay for the banks crimes and 3.5 Million homes in the foreclosure pipeline continue to overhang the market of 306,000 sales per year.

    http://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?p=slim+pickens+rides+the+bomb+dr+strangelove

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  248. The opinion of one formerly known as “Established”:

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/newt-did-not-resign-disgrace_620900.html?page=3

    Truth getting its pants on.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  249. 57 states, speak Austrian, corpsemen, its Presidential:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/mitt-romney-we-are-the-only-people-who-put-their

    Ogabe is a nice guy who loves his country, he’s just incompetent.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  250. Ohoxha is not nice you spineless tool.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  251. Great link, Gary.

    Whatever else, and I say this as both an ally and a tormentor of Speaker Gingrich, he did not resign in disgrace. His leadership was key in getting us to the majority. His inspiration helped keep us there: twice. But after the 1998 midterm election, with a presidential campaign approaching and Governor George W. Bush emerging as our likely leader with a real chance to regain the presidency, we needed a speaker who could manage the House not an idea leader. So like a business changing direction, we changed leadership.

    There are plenty of reasons to oppose Newt Gingrich. I happen to support Rick Santorum. But the speaker has been unfairly maligned by Mitt Romney

    That’s true. Romney should apologize. His excuse is that he’s been criticized harshly, and I’m sure he thinks unfairly, but how he’s described Newt is just incorrect. This attack worked in Florida, but there’s a real chance it’s going to backfire.

    I will give Mitt credit for being an unapologetic fighter. Sometimes it’s hard to give him credit for that, because he’s attacking more conservative candidates (Rick Perry will KILL social security), but if he’s nominated I suppose that skill will be something I learn to appreciate.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  252. Your the man now Dustin.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  253. Romney believes he was criticized harshly?
    When has that ever happened in politics before?
    Mitt needs to either grow a pair, or develop some thicker skin if he wishes to be successful in his newest chosen endeavor.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  254. No, he won’t do that, Dustin, Mike ‘Iceberg’ Murphy, believes it’ wouldn’t be prudent’ to take on Obama that way, that’s not the way they roll.

    ted stryker (87e966)

  255. That’s a good point, AD.

    There’s a kind of fighting that shows one is a tough politician that has thick skin, and there’s a kind of fighting that shows a politician is actually just way too defensive and lacks a governing record he’s proud of.

    My bias against Romney is just too high at this point to fairly say what the deal with Newt is.

    I know there are plenty of reasonable people who criticize Newt, but in this case, Romney’s “disgrace” comments (which are very numerous) buys into one of the worst attacks the liberals ever did. It’s insincere, it’s untrue, and it’s annoying.

    Ted, that was the problem with Mccain. He could attack Bush all day, and he could attack other Republicans all day, but when it was time to hit Obama with some of that, he seemed to lose the edge. I don’t know if that’s just a habit of trying to please the press or if it’s just because he was a bit more liberal than I’d like.

    However, there is one critical difference between Mccain and Romney. Romney wants to win, very badly. Much more badly than Mccain did.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  256. 258. This is one of those junctures where your faith in mankind’s(save a couple of familiars) better nature reach out, close its arms and find..the other arm:

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/02/romney-continues-to-push-myth-that-he-didnt-attack-in-s-c/

    He can’t help it, George was just too exalted a figure to be Dad.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  257. “I was pretty clear in the last thread. I wanted you to clear the air.”

    Pardon me, but you do that by claiming I said something I clearly did not say, a common tactic of yours and hardly a good faith effort on clearing the air. This morning I find you again calling me a liar after providing support for something I said which does not match up with your Milhousian restatement of my words. Good faith, no.

    “Clearly you aren’t interested in taking responsibility for what you’ve said.”

    I’m happy to take responsibility for what I actually said, not your restatements of what you claim I said. We have been through this many times.

    “BTW, I never claimed Obamacare and Romneycare are exactly the same.”

    In September you admitted there were significant differences between the two. Do you believe you stuck to that story? Do you really want to go down that road?

    “I forgive you for that, and I realize you’re a lot more affected by this than I am. Hopefully you figure that out.”

    I will pray for you Dustin.

    “Anyway, if I catch you lying about me, I’m going to explain that.”

    As I will continue to do with you.

    Now I think it’s time to put you back on ignore for a while, since you obviously can’t handle being challenged.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 2/3/2012

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    daley… are you the creator of Hi and Lois? Because you’re making me laugh!

    Colonel Haiku (1ae0d7)

  258. reaches out, closes its arms and finds*

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  259. re: #248… you may want to ask that that post be deleted, gulrud, or you’ll risk an “unannounced visit” and an extensive interrogation from the Secret Service.

    Colonel Haiku (1ae0d7)

  260. And if you don’t like that why that’s just the way it’s going to be.

    Read that in Butter’s voice. It’s very amusing.

    Gary, what amazes me is that I actually sorta believe Romney when he says he didn’t attack Newt and he stayed above the fray. He has such an amazing capacity to seem 100% honest. He is a much better liar than Obama, Clinton, or Newt. In a twisted way, it’s impressive. I wonder what is going on inside that head. I almost wonder if Romney convinces himself and then goes up there to righteously complain about how he was attacked by Newt.

    Of course, your link shows he attacked Santorum and Newt with negative ads, outspending both and attacking first. But I don’t see even a hint of a lie on his face when he says the opposite.

    Romney has a law degree, and I would LOVE to have this guy be my lawyer.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  261. he had Tom Brokaw and Elliot Abrams do it for him, he didn’t have to raise a finger, except to write out the check,

    narciso (87e966)

  262. 266. What from the Aaronic Priests, the Quorum of the Twelve, like Mountain Meadows?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  263. As I will continue to do with you.

    Daleyrocks, you claimed I said or supported four things. Each of them it’s been shown I didn’t say.

    The first time, I gave you the benefit of the doubt. You should have checked to see if I said it before attacking me for it, but hey, you’re upset and you didn’t bother.

    The next several times made clear you are intentionally lying about me.

    That’s why I can criticize you by quoting you, and you have to criticize straw men versions of my comments that I easily show are inaccurate.

    Pardon me, but you do that by claiming I said something I clearly did not say,

    Liar. I quoted your entire comment. You are just repeating my defense and hoping folks won’t bother reading through the whole mess.

    Dustin – Sorry for misspelling your handle. I don’t speak for all parents on either side of the debate and neither do you. What is obvious is that Perry’s onerous opt out procedure for the government needle of sex, making it a quasi mandate, was what was objectionable to a large number of people. For some reason, creepy panty sniffer EPWJ and Rick Perry think the sex lives of our teenage girls should involve the government through a mandate process. Who is in/who is out. Given creepy panty sniffer EPWJ’s comments about the sex lives of Bristol Palin and her mother, I really don’t want to speculate further on his reasons.

    Comment by daleyrocks

    Dustin (401f3a)

  264. I think it’s very amusing that Haiku simply quotes Daleyrocks’s comments in their entirely, contributing nothing.

    It’s like he’s a troll or something.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  265. I pray Daleykos gets a brain.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  266. Now I think it’s time to put you back on ignore for a while, since you obviously can’t handle being challenged.

    Comment by daleyrocks

    Actually, I’m very pleased with how our exchange has gone. Anyone reasonable reading both your and my arguments will come to the correct conclusion.

    Because you repeated many dishonest smears and provably lied about my comments, your hack level burden of proof for any Romney criticism simply has no credibility.

    I hoped you would be man enough to clear the air and even apologize, but hey, you aren’t that kind of person.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  267. 270. “hoping folks won’t bother reading through the whole mess”

    Hope? It’s an iron guarantee, embedded in stone, slathered in epoxy and vulcanized.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  268. Hard to improve on perfection, Dusty Roads, and daley has had you by the extremely short n’ curlies for quite some time now.

    Rave on, dude.

    Colonel Haiku (1ae0d7)

  269. Please let’s put Daleykos on permanent ignore mode.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  270. 271. The Borg has a distributed mind, some nodes contribute, others are just relays.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  271. just like a gaggle of junior high school girls… too funny!

    Colonel Haiku (1ae0d7)

  272. Courage orcs, Sauron has been reading our memos:

    “It isn’t good enough for the Republican party to nominate Obama-lite.”

    All of the arrogant detachment, none of the hemoglobin.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  273. It’s about time that someone posed Romney this question in a forum where he can’t avoid it: “Mr. Romney–do you commit to signing a total repeal of Obamacare should Congress present it to you, without reservation or caveats?” He seems to be ready to clinch things–wait too long to ask this, and it will be too late to deal with a wishy washy answer.

    MSE (0dffce)

  274. Hard to improve on perfection, Dusty Roads, and daley has had you by the extremely short n’ curlies for quite some time now.

    Rave on, dude.

    Comment by Colonel Haiku

    Well, he’s certainly using a lot of bold text and exclamation marks, but it seems like the pattern is “Dustin supports X” and then I say “here’s what I actually said which is basically the opposite”.

    You are living up to your claim that you do not intend to persuade anyone, but perhaps that’s something you said because you realize you’ve failed to persuade anyone. Or perhaps you are trying to troll conservatives.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  275. Can someone please tell Colonel Pussy to shut up because all I’m hearing is a whole lot of hot air coming out of his mouth which probably leads to gorebull warming.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  276. If Bill Clinton cheats on his wife and marries Bawney Fwank and comes out as gay can the hypocrite left shut up.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  277. Only one of George’s kids use their first name:

    http://2012.presidential-candidates.org/Romney/Siblings.php

    We’ve already looked at Ogabe’s youth, discarded by legal parents, raised by grandparents with some mentoring by natural father, a priviledged, feral street kid.

    Willard comes along after Dad has become a very big wheel, an afterthought. Likely a very formal rather than intimate relationship. Lots of expectations, support, not so much.

    Where Ogabe is pro-infanticide, Mitt just devoid of compassion, not a nihilist, but parks dog on the roof rather than risk the luggage.

    Obama-lite.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  278. gulrud, I would say that’s beneath you; but, unfortunately . . .

    Icy (dbb3da)

  279. 285. Got that right, lil’ buddy, I am the lowest form of life available.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  280. Gary, I agree with Icy on that one.

    It’s not even Mitt’s fault how he was raised. Hell, even trying to say it that way sounds like an insult. We don’t know what Mitt’s relationship with his dad was like, and frankly, what we do know of Mitt’s family life is an impressive example. Just like Obama’s is, to be honest.

    The dog story does bother me, though. Not as much as the various laws Romney signed as governor that I disagree with.

    But I sure wish my favored candidate, Newt, had the kind of family life Mitt has. Nobody’s perfect and right now I just want someone to reform our government fundamentally rather than pose as another Obama little problem solver (solved with government).

    Dustin (401f3a)

  281. The dog story doesn’t bother me at all I think it’s charmingly griswoldian.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  282. Why does what name they go by matter, in the least, Gary?

    JD (318f81)

  283. The dog story doesn’t bother me at all I think it’s charmingly griswoldian.

    Comment by happyfeet

    Well, it is admittedly as relevant as Rick Perry shooting that coyote, which I remember primarily because Haiku brings it up about seventy times per day.

    but it was something Romney did. A goof that makes him look kinda uncaring, but no one could withstand a hunt for any example of being uncaring without something coming up.

    Maybe Santorum could… he seems like he’s almost too innocent for our political process, but Newt sure as hell couldn’t.

    Anyway, I was attempting to distinguish that from the name issue or childhood experiences Mitt has no control over.

    Signing a gun control law or Romneycare are also thinks Mitt had control over.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  284. Thank you for trying to cut through the romneybot BS.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  285. If we oppose illegal appointments we have our hands greased.

    If democraps oppose illegal appointments they are patriotic.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  286. 287. ” we do know of Mitt’s family life is an impressive example.”

    Never said different. During the Victorian era the little I implied was common practice. Churchill was raised with less input from his father than I propose of Romney.

    “Just like Obama’s is, to be honest.”

    Huh? This discussion could fall apart right here.

    “It’s not even Mitt’s fault how he was raised”

    Agreed. You’re saying it would tell us nothing, we’d glean no insight into admittedly deviant behavior.

    Obviously, the psychological speculation I’m engaging in is likely to miss on significant points for lack of information alone. But treacherous, underhanded, I don’t buy that at all.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  287. 289. Come again? Obama, Soetoro, Dunham or Marshall? Actually, I matters a good deal.

    Barry Soetoro applied for financial aid at Occidental as a foreign national. Scratch that one.

    Obama Sr. was married when reported to have married Ann Dunham, tho no license is known and no guests report a wedding. He died while operating under the influence and striking a tree. Odd this name was chosen.

    The natural father, Franklin Marshall Davis, divorced his then wife, mother of five of his children in 1970. No, we shan’t use that name.

    Barack ibn Dunham, less notorious but were having a little trouble just now with a certain Religion of Pieces.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  288. Agreed. You’re saying it would tell us nothing, we’d glean no insight into admittedly deviant behavior.

    That basically is what I’m saying. I think we learn a lot more about Romney just looking at his tenure as governor than looking at his sisters and brother.

    Also, and I know I always get a negative reaction to these comments, but the business side is insightful too. It’s not like Romney had a straight up business where he sold goods or services so much as he took advantage of systems like bankruptcy to leverage takeovers and generate profit (often short term profit instead of long term). There’s plenty of money to be made in socialist (or less free market) systems for that sort of profit model, and it doesn’t relate very well to small business owners. I think this is reflected in policy ideas like an automatically increasing minimum wage.

    Huh? This discussion could fall apart right here.

    I would be fine with Obama as my neighbor. I just think he’s a very poor leader and quite wrong. I think a lot of the corruption is the absence of a strong president rather than Obama being a mastermind.

    Compared to other politicians, I’m glad Obama at least presents the image of a family. I guess this is un-PC to say, but in particular, one of the problems in our country is fatherlessness in the ‘black community’ (I hate dividing society up like that).

    Dustin (401f3a)

  289. Documentation of BLS fecklessness:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/trimtabs-explains-why-todays-very-very-suspicious-nfp-number-really-down-29-million-past-2-mont

    TrimTabs alerted us during QE2 the run up in the stock market was not of traditional domestic origin, i.e., insiders and retail were selling strongly.

    Turned out, circa six months back, Bennie had made $16 Trillion in loans to world banks, half to Europe.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  290. I love how Nazi Bloomberg does not believe in 2nd amendment.

    Honestly he knows damn well the thugs of america won’t follow his inane laws.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  291. Comment by Colonel Haiku — 2/3/2012 @ 12:18 pm

    Oh, grow up!
    There was no threat, or Patterico would have gotten involved.
    For all you know (if you had read the comments on that link) he could have meant that the punishment from shooting the damn thing just once would “get his mind straight”.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  292. I would be fine with Obama as my neighbor.

    I wouldn’t.
    He strikes me as the sort who would complain if you put your trash barrels out before sun-down for pick-up the next morning.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  293. 295. ” I just think he’s a very poor leader and quite wrong.”

    You and Willard are on the same page here.

    “I think a lot of the corruption is the absence of a strong president rather than Obama being a mastermind.”

    So coordination requires a mastermind, as in Hassan was not a terrorist because he worked alone?

    Take science, researchers in far flung corners of the world, without ever corresponding nonetheless work in close parallel on the same, let alone, related investigations, performing, unknown to each other, the same experiments.

    How is this possible?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  294. I love how poeple call Rush Limbaugh a racist but yet they consider Alan West not really black.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  295. how many people are truly unemployed?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  296. I wouldn’t.
    He strikes me as the sort who would complain if you put your trash barrels out before sun-down for pick-up the next morning.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS!

    Yeah, he’s quite a self centered whiner, come to think of it. Probably wouldn’t be the greatest neighbor.

    So coordination requires a mastermind, as in Hassan was not a terrorist because he worked alone?

    Interesting point. Indeed, one of the elements to that particular huge failure was that our government was ridiculously PC. It’s been a serious of ineffective government, and often if they just get lucky, they pretend ‘the system worked’.

    Whether Obama is a bad man or just a weak leader, the results are awful.

    And of course, he knows damn well that he’s shredding the constitution more and more frequently. Part of his problem is he’s weak, but the other problem is he really is a radical guy.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  297. Don’t say that you’ll make Dumbney cry.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  298. 3012)Well he was in rather constant contact with Awlaki, not that such a thing really flagged too much attention in the military, it seems.

    narciso (87e966)

  299. It does seem that there is a habit of saying deeply hurtful or inaccurate things that run in the family, whether that’brainwashing’ line, on this ditty, Mind you Goldwater had led the fight in desegregation in the Phoenix City Council;

    In the 1964 U.S. presidential election, Senator Barry Goldwater quickly became the likely Republican Party nominee. Goldwater represented a new wave of American conservatism, of which the moderate Romney was not a part.[98] Romney also felt that Goldwater would be a drag on Republicans running in the all the other races that year, including Romney’s own[98] (at the time, Michigan had two-year terms for its governor).[105] Finally, Romney disagreed strongly with Goldwater’s views on civil rights; he would later say, “Whites and Negroes, in my opinion, have got to learn to know each other. Barry Goldwater didn’t have any background to understand this, to fathom them, and I couldn’t get through to him.”[80

    narciso (87e966)

  300. 303. “Interesting point.”

    The point is there are only 2 or 3 degrees of separation between these investigators.

    The top PIs, principal investigators, teach grads and undergrads in related disciplines, run labs overseen by postdocs directing research by PhD. candidates, the PIs edit journals, they author their lab’s papers, collaborate witn other PIs, give seminars and attend symposia around the world, write textbooks, sit on boards of directors in business and education, are consultants for business and government, mentor past students on their way to PI status, administer their lab as a business, write grants that fund them 3 or 5 years at a time with millions of dollars.

    Yeah, one person does all that, and they are the hardest working people on earth. Their kids, wives, friends, pets, relations, employees all suffer but that’s science at the pinnacle.

    Ayers, Cloward, Piven, Harkin, Pelosi, Van Jones, and even Ogabe are PIs of their discipline. Everyone working toward the destruction of capitalism by saddling it with Progressivism knows someone who knows a PI and they touch base daily with others working on the same marching orders.

    Mastermind, who needs one, conspiracy, what for?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  301. Mastermind, who needs one, conspiracy, what for?

    Comment by gary gulrud

    Things do tend to be headed in a bad direction, not necessarily on their own, but a lot of people are helping it along because it is the easiest short term solution.

    Most of these folks would roll their eyes at Cloward Piven conspiracy theories, yet they voted up the debt ceiling just the same.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  302. Ayers is a marxist saboteur.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  303. So we can’t eat meat because it is murder. What about eating vegetables?

    Is that murdering plants?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  304. Obama is a marxist tool.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  305. 306. Whereas George was unquestionably a PI in two disciplines, possibly four, Willard is not an idea person, a creative talent.

    The Bain Co. rescue was impressive, but its like being a chef, an engineer or doctor-applied scientists. One starts with a recipie and generates variations on a theme.

    I believe his inflexibility and congenital duplicity are a combination of genetics, nurture but especially culture.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  306. Well that’s unfair, both show certain talents, in the manufacturing, and/or finance, but also have shown a certain limited understanding of wider trends,

    narciso (87e966)

  307. spambot?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  308. 313. Using the Wiki for each my argument around a verisimilitude of the contrast between the pure and applied sciences centers around George making the rules in Federal labor relations, CEO working with UAW, two-term Governor establishing an antipode rivalling the NE and SW GOP, and the most powerful man in his secret society east of the Mississippi.

    Willard used the rules very effectively, and lead business in a faddish lucrative pursuit in significant part of his making.

    Not saying George was a better man, his repeating the creative process in vaguely related fields is telling. I can dig for the corporate raider pioneers, if you need more, but ‘not fair’ needs fleshing out.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  309. I would be fine with Obama as my neighbor.

    I would be fine with Obama as Mikhail Gorbachev;s neighbor.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  310. I would be fine if they bought back Nicolae Ceaulescu from the dead and made Obama his neighbor.

    George Soros is a stuck-up self loathing jew.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  311. By the way Socons do not support suicide bombing.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  312. I just can’t get over how smart the guy is:

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/72433.html

    If me can’t be smartest in room, clear the room.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  313. So, he fired his debate coach, smart move,

    narciso (87e966)

  314. 321. Romney’s winning the FL debates vs. Neut was, ostensibly, the positive leg of his campaign.

    McDonnell–not to be confused with VA Gov. or the witch, was Michele’s coach, and she was awesome in that one regard.

    No debates for three weeks, the original duck the media program is the plan going forward.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  315. So, he fired his debate coach, smart move,

    Comment by narciso

    Actually, it might be a smart move. It doesn’t speak well for his team to have that kind of tension, but is Romney going to be able to fix that? The only way is to make a hard decision and take out the component of least value (I assume he feels the debate prep is no longer needed).

    This is not George W Bush with the sappy hugs and personal character. this is the guy who thinks abortion is something to run by a pollster.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  316. He fired him for having an inflated ego.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  317. See this is just major league stupidity, I didn’t think they would stoop this low, this fast;

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-mitt-romneys-cousin-park-romney/2012/02/02/gIQAYLvclQ_story.html

    narciso (87e966)

  318. 328. A more consequential cousin:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_George_Romney

    If it pays to know the enemy, why not know thy lord and lady?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  319. This is not George W Bush with the sappy hugs and personal character. this is the guy who thinks abortion is something to run by a pollster.

    Comment by Dustin

    “In particular, our support is based on Governor Romney’s superior understanding of America’s key role in our increasingly interdependent world and his appreciation of the fact that sound economic and social policies must rest on a healthy culture,” the letter calls out. “From our knowledge of Governor Romney and his wife Ann, as well as his outstanding record in defense of marriage and the family, we are confident that he understands the importance of strong families as pillars of a vibrant economy and a flourishing polity. We also know that Mitt Romney is a staunch defender of the principle that every human being should be welcomed in life and protected by law from conception to natural death.”

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/286884/pre-caucus-credentials-kathryn-jean-lopez

    Colonel Haiku (dfec05)

  320. A solid fellow, of course that earlier link was the Post, so what can one expect;

    narciso (87e966)

  321. 330. Signatories:

    Rita Covelle
    President, Morality in Media Massachusetts

    Gerald D. D’Avolio
    Former Executive Director, Massachusetts Catholic Conference

    Raymond L. Flynn
    Former U.S. Ambassador to the Holy See

    Professor Mary Ann Glendon
    Harvard Law School
    Former U.S. Ambassador to the Holy See

    Kristian Mineau
    President, Massachusetts Family Institute

    Dr. Roberto Miranda
    COPAHNI Fellowship of Hispanic Pastors of New England

    James F. Morgan
    Chairman, Institute for Family Development

    Joseph Reilly
    Former Chairman of the Board, Massachusetts Citizens for Life

    Thomas A. Shields
    Chairman, Coalition for Marriage and Family

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  322. Hearts and minds, Mitt, Rick and Newt…

    http://www.hughhewitt.com/blog/g/f1918fec-a234-4fd1-aec2-d72d988ef382

    Colonel Haiku (dfec05)

  323. Newt would probably hire somebody like Heidi Fleiss as White House Social Secretary, so he’s got that going for him.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  324. I think it’s very unlikely that Mr. Gingrich, an historian, would hire someone like Heidi Fleiss as his White House Social Secretary.

    I think it’s more likely that he would either delegate that decision or himself hire a nice, pleasant, and competent person who knew the ins and outs of that kind of job.

    Of course it’s also possible Mr. Newt might abolish the position entirely and have the duties assumed by an intern or perhaps announce an x-prize for the development of software that serves the same function.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  325. iowahawkblog: It’s Fri-ee-day, Friday, gotta dump docs on Fri-ee-day http://t.co/nH43zRqu

    Colonel Haiku (dfec05)

  326. hey, daley… a question… what sort of penance do you perform after spilling nitwit blood on a daily basis?

    Colonel Haiku (dfec05)

  327. 338. Screwtape is absolved, we are not worthy of competence.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  328. “hey, daley… a question… what sort of penance do you perform after spilling nitwit blood on a daily basis?”

    Colonel – The first thing I do every day is hit my knees and pray, seriously.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  329. The first Qiblah, Jerusalem or Mecca?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  330. gary – For you, special price, only cost $50 to find out my friend.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  331. Why wasn’t “porcelain” a choice?

    Icy (f9b8cc)

  332. Icy – For gary it certainly is, since it’s clear he can’t handle his SO2.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  333. A lot of double drinkin’ going on up there in Minnesota IYKWIMAITTYD.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  334. couple that with his inability to hold his mud and he be burnin’ that candle at both ends…

    Colonel Haiku (dfec05)


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