Patterico's Pontifications

1/6/2012

FBI Will Now Count Rape Against Men in Crime Statistics

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:35 am

Seems kind of obvious, doesn’t it? Yet it hasn’t been this way before:

The FBI is changing its long-standing definition of rape for the first time to include sexual assaults on males following persistent calls from victims advocates who claim that the offense, as currently defined in the agency’s annual crime report, has been undercounted for decades.

Under the current definition, established 85 years ago, many of the sex crimes alleged in the ongoing prosecution of former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky would not be counted in the bureau’s Uniform Crime Report, one of the most reliable measures of crime in the United States. Sandusky is accused in alleged assaults and sexual misconduct involving 10 male victims.

Rape is currently defined as the “carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will.”

The new provision will define rape as any kind of penetration of another person, regardless of gender, without the victim’s consent.

I have seen statistics that show more men are raped in this country every year than women, and while I am unsure of their accuracy, the fact is that rape of men is common — in prison. Long-time readers of the site know that I do not consider prison rape funny. Not only is it not part of the prescribed punishment, but the victims are likely to be weaker and less violent people — meaning that even if you did subscribe to a vigilante justice ethic, you’d still be letting the most violent get their jollies at the expense of the least violent.

The FBI’s collection of these statistics will not settle the question of the extent of rape of males, since prison rape is often unreported. But it is a step in the right direction.

Thanks to Gabriel Malor on Twitter.

181 Responses to “FBI Will Now Count Rape Against Men in Crime Statistics”

  1. we have to take back the night

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  2. Organize a slutwalk?

    gary gulrud (1de2db)

  3. Since you commented about prison rape – I will share one story of an attempted prison rape from the 1980′s.
    I boxed golden gloves during the 70′s. My sparring partner won the state golden gloves two years running. (he was by a long shot much better than I was). He would up in prison for a short 2 year stint. Being white and only 140lbs, he was prime candidate for being a prison bride. He was accosted very early during his term by 4 rather large individuals for his initiation. He then went to the largest one of the group, displayed his skills, put the guy down for period significantly longer than a 10 count. From that day forward – he was left alone.

    Joe (5e0a70)

  4. Organize a Manwhorewalk.

    By the way Whoopie says it ain’t rape rape.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  5. This definitely seems like a step in the right direction. It’s sick how common and acceptable prison rape “humor” is in our culture.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  6. well, i admit i can find it funny.

    But when i stop laughing, Patrick is right. it shouldn’t be happening. it is horrible that it is a price of prison life, especially because it often means that the meanest make things the hardest for the kindest.

    look, i am not a bleeding heart who thinks that every person gets reformed immediately on leaving prison. Most of those guys stay bad. But I do want to give prisoners the chance at reform, and i tend to think being buggered in prison tends to work against that. the lessons you learn surviving in prison probably do not serve them well in real life, and ending prison rape might help change that.

    The Speedway Bomber (e7d72e)

  7. ah, crap, accidentally sockpuppetry. “The Speedway Bomber” was me.

    Feel free, ops, to delete this and correct the last comment.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  8. Did you notice, Aaron, who was in the comment thread
    of your last post, our old adversary, Ken AShford

    narciso (87e966)

  9. I can’t believe this wasn’t already counted in crime statistics.

    Wow. Women often talk about how hard it is for women to decide to come forward and report rape, but think about how hard it must be for men.

    MayBee (081489)

  10. Bahahahahahaha.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  11. Sorry for the O/T-But The enquirer are trying to make the Tebow family out to be a bunch of immoral perverts.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  12. _____________________________________________

    It’s sick how common and acceptable prison rape “humor” is in our culture.

    Not much better is when one considers the Catholic church and the many cases of child molestation (the worst form of rape of all) that have occurred within its walls for decades, and the perps often being treated with anything but ex-communication, much less a response from law enforcement.

    BTW, I’ve read that a percentage of males, when in a prison environment, will act upon homosexual impulses, but when released from jail and free again will resume their previous heterosexual behavior. I also recall reading an LA Times article several years ago that noted the culture of Iraq, because of its strict Islamism and strong segregation of the sexes, apparently resulted in a surprising amount of male homosexuality. Yea, I know the following is off-topic, but observations along these lines are why I have even less sympathy for the idea of same-sex marriage—or the notion of “wah, wah, but they can’t help be who they are!!”

    Mark (411533)

  13. I don’t see the problem

    Bill Lockyer (ea66e3)

  14. It’s about bloody time. Next maybe they’ll start counting male victims in domestic violence stats.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  15. I used to compile statistics for a fairly large Sheriff’s department. When the political folks in the department (Lt. or above) needed to show a decrease in violent crime (to show what a great job they were doing) or an increase in violent crime (to show how they needed more funding) they simply re-defined rape as being either a violent crime or a sex crime or the other way around.

    Huey (4f7ef0)

  16. Mark- I am pro-SSM but I have often thought of the prison rape thing when people make the “gay people are born that way” argument. It may be true, but it’s obvious our understanding of that is quite imperfect. For me, though, it doesn’t factor into the equation.

    MayBee (081489)

  17. What he hell does prison rape have to do with being gay?

    Icy (eca528)

  18. Icy- the person committing the rape is quite obviously choosing to have homosexual sex.

    MayBee (081489)

  19. _____________________________________________

    For me, though, it doesn’t factor into the equation.

    MayBee, for me it does, because aren’t most of the proponents of same-sex marriage pushing the idea that society should (or must) accommodate the innate, intrinsic aspects of those people who say they’re attracted to the same sex? If so, aren’t most males — straight, gay or bi — prone to being non-monogamous and promiscuous?

    And, yea, since that’s innate or DNA-encoded as much as anything else, one very major aspect of male behavior is no less pertinent than another far less common one (ie, same-sex behavior). Therefore, it truly isn’t being flip to say if society must accommodate SSM, it therefore needs to also accommodate polygamy or the idea of open marriages.

    Mark (411533)

  20. Comment by MayBee — 1/6/2012 @ 10:44 am

    Other than masturbation, what other option is there if you’re going to have sex while imprisoned?

    AD-RtR/OS! (fe49d9)

  21. As Neal Stephenson says in Snow Crash about the pirates of Bruce Lee: “It’s not that they’re gay. It’s that out on the ocean with no women, they’ll screw anything concave.”

    luagha (5cbe06)

  22. Other than masturbation, what other option is there if you’re going to have sex while imprisoned?

    Is there some requirement to have sex while imprisoned? I would think if you are choosing to have sex, you are making a choice that having sex with men is ok, right?

    MayBee (081489)

  23. narc

    ashford and i are on friendly terms and i am working with a lawyer from Acorn. Speedway bombers make for strange bedfellows.

    But by all means folks, enjoy the bi-partisan love fest at my site. :-) click on my name to go the link.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  24. It’s that out on the ocean with no women, they’ll screw anything concave.”

    That’s why I think human sexuality is much more complex than just saying it must be that one is born into his or her sexuality.

    MayBee (081489)

  25. If more men are raped than women (or even half as many), and if male-on-male sex is homosexual behavior, and if those interested in engaging in homosexual behavior make up less than five percent of the population, what must we conclude?

    There, I said it.

    This is the primary reason why the male rape issue has not been addressed.

    Amphipolis (b120ce)

  26. Well, the door swings both ways, does it not – or did we stop imprisoning women?
    Let’s realize that most Male Prison Rape has nothing to do with “having sex”,
    but imposing one’s will upon another; in other words:
    Establishing the pecking-order!

    AD-RtR/OS! (fe49d9)

  27. We’re all a bunch of racists for impeaching Obama and Clinton too.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  28. for wanting to impeach i mean.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  29. prison sex is how you get diseases

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  30. I think it would be an interesting statistic, to compare the number of male rape victims in prison to the number of male rape victims out of prison. I suspect that the number of non-imprisoned male rape victims is small (although nonzero).

    That said, amphipolis, I think the implication that male rape hasn’t been addressed because of what it would say about the homosexual community is absurd. For one thing, I have a close (male) friend who was raped by a woman, meaning that I have anecdotal evidence that the presumption that male rape is male-on-male is invalid. For another, as MayBee hinted, it’s extremely difficult psychologically for most male rape victims to admit to it to other people; the issue can’t be addressed *at all* until the men who are victims are willing to talk about it, which most of them aren’t.

    aphrael (9ef75a)

  31. _______________________________________________

    if those interested in engaging in homosexual behavior make up less than five percent of the population

    The controversy of same-sex marriage — thanks in part to it being debated in this forum and my having to look up information in order to either verify or discount my POV — is why I started to realize bisexuality is more common than I originally believed. I once did have some sympathy for the claims of those who’d say “if I could choose to be a certain way, why in the hell would I want to be this way to begin with?!”

    So that and the fact a lot of the “GLBT” crowd is of the left, meaning it’s hard to know where one begins (their ideology) and one leaves off (their sexuality), has definitely affected my opinion on cultural issues like this.

    Mark (411533)

  32. Mark – I think it’s pretty clear that bisexuality is more common than commonly believed.

    I also think it’s pretty clear that there are people who are not bisexual. I’ve *never* felt an iota of sexual attraction to a woman, for example. I believe there are other men who have never felt an iota of attraction to a man.

    aphrael (9ef75a)

  33. MayBee, for me it does, because aren’t most of the proponents of same-sex marriage pushing the idea that society should (or must) accommodate the innate, intrinsic aspects of those people who say they’re attracted to the same sex? If so, aren’t most males — straight, gay or bi — prone to being non-monogamous and promiscuous?

    Mark- I don’t know if most of the proponents of SSM push that idea, but I do not. I think those who do push SSM for that reason are just trying to bypass making a more convincing argument. Like people who say AGW is settled science.
    It does seem males are prone to being non-monogamous, but hopefully anyone entering into marriage, whether gay, straight, or bi, will commit himself to monogamy. It’s perfectly within the capabilities of every man to control himself.

    MayBee (081489)

  34. MayBee sexually assaulted me with her eyes. ;-)

    JD (392f2d)

  35. I was embarrassed to admit it previously, but now feel like a great weight has been lifted from my shoulders.

    JD (392f2d)

  36. The FBI is now keeping statistics on eye crimes.

    MayBee (081489)

  37. I feel so cheap. And used.

    JD (392f2d)

  38. Well, you are!

    AD-RtR/OS! (fe49d9)

  39. JD – It was the kilt. You were asking for it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  40. I’ve got an entirely different beef with this, Patterico, although I agree entirely with yours too.

    My beef is that the Obama Administration is using this to dupe and deceive potential supporters (especially women) into thinking that Obama has done something important and substantive to protect them from rape and sexual assault. And that’s a load of crap.

    On NPR this afternoon, I listened to a reporter and Obama flack Valerie Jared engage in a dialog whose strong implication was that before Barack Obama saved the day, it would have been perfectly legal to forcibly and nonconsentually penetrate a woman’s vagina with a broomstick.

    The fact is that rape, sexual assault, and all other sorts of assaults are almost exclusive matters of state law, not federal law. They are crimes defined by state legislatures and signed into law by state governors, not the Congress or the POTUS. They are enforced by state police and prosecutors (or prosecutors employed by state sub-agencies like cities and counties), not by the Justice Department or the FBI.

    Now, I’m not saying the FBI should abandon all programs designed to collect or share information with and from and to state agencies.

    But this is a giant political hoax being perpetrated by people who damn sure know better on those who, unfortunately, don’t. It depends on a lack of detailed knowledge of history, law, or federalism, which means it will be very effective with the Democratic base. But it will also fool some independents, including some people who know better and would realize the scam if only someone pointed it out to them (like NPR pointedly doesn’t).

    Beldar (bd62f3)

  41. Beldar – Why would National Palestinian Radio want to point something like that out? You were kidding right? A joke?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  42. They were the ones behind the VAWA, drafted by their
    solon from Scranton, Joe Biden, in probable consultation with the likes of Catherine Mackinnon,

    narciso (87e966)

  43. Long-time readers of the site know that I do not consider prison rape funny.

    What a sad and sick shame this even has to be said.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  44. Comment by Beldar — 1/6/2012 @ 4:13 pm

    In the Kingdom of the Blind, the One-eyed Man is King!
    And we certainly have misunderedumated a whole lot of “blind” people.
    If they ever are forced to open their eyes, and see what is around them, it can only be said that Payback is a Bitch!

    AD-RtR/OS! (fe49d9)

  45. Long-time readers of the site know that I do not consider prison rape funny.

    Patrick, you’ll never become AG thinking like that.

    AD-RtR/OS! (fe49d9)

  46. We should allow all arrestees and prisoners the right of suicide.

    Of course, we should also do what’s possible to reform the prison system, but at a fundamental level, there is one action which can solve any life problem, including rape which may well feel like and seem like torture to an individual, in an instant, and that is ending one’s life.

    It’s immoral that we use force to stop people, any people, from having the choice of life or death over themselves.

    Random (38d59c)

  47. This just puts me back in mind of those who savaged George W. Bush for not having supported a hate-crimes law that would have applied to the murderers of James Byrd, Jr. (dragged to death in Jasper, Texas, in 1998). Two of the conspirators who were most responsible and active in the murder have been convicted and sentenced to death; one’s on death row, the other has already been executed. The third and least culpable is serving a life sentence with no possibility of parole.

    “We need a federal law to punish such racism!” cry the libs. “We need hate crimes legislation!”

    To which Texans tend to respond, “How much deader do you want us to kill these murderers?”

    Beldar (bd62f3)

  48. Under the current definition, established 85 years ago, many of the sex crimes alleged in the ongoing prosecution of former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky would not be counted in the bureau’s Uniform Crime Report, one of the most reliable measures of crime in the United States.

    Does anyone know if this is actually true?

    Or is the truth that the crimes would have been reported, but under “sexual assault” or some other category than quote-unquote “rape”?

    There is absolutely, positively, no special reason for rape to be of special federal interest over other violent crimes.

    Can anyone point to anything that’s actually going to change — someone who will go to prison now who wouldn’t have before, some crime that will be prosecuted now that couldn’t have been prosecuted before — as a result of this change? Because I’m very skeptical that this has any real impact even within the limited role the DoJ and FBI have on any of these crimes and prosecutions.

    Beldar (bd62f3)

  49. Can anyone point to anything that’s actually going to change

    That’s easy. Bureacrats and politicians at the federal level can point to how relevant they are in solving all our scary problems (not to suggest rape isn’t horrible).

    Dustin (cb3719)

  50. Does anyone think that members of the LGBT community are being systematically denied protection of the state criminal laws? That criminals who prey on them are being systematically ignored, and that such is with the approval and at the direction of those who wrote our current criminal laws? Can anyone cite such an instance?

    Beldar (bd62f3)

  51. @ Dustin: Yeah, I’m sure this will “save or create” some DoJ federal jobs. I’m pretty sure, in fact, that the entire motivation is to save one particular federal job — Barack Obama’s.

    Beldar (bd62f3)

  52. Thank you for pointing out the crass and cynical political motivation behind this, Beldar. I frankly had not even consider the point of view you laid out.

    JD (318f81)

  53. what I heard on National Soros Radio says the changes were made at the behest of one Joe Biden, who is currently serving as the vice president to our most rapey president ever in history (except for Bill Clinton, who had a certain flair for rape what sets him apart for the purposes of this analysis).

    But what’s encouraging to know is that Joe Biden knows from rape, having earlier this year diagnosed the cause of rape as being primarily due to a failure to pass Obama’s jobs bill.

    So what have we learned? Rape is a very useful crime for Democrats – they have fun finding creative uses for rape, mostly for to help them get elected.

    And, really, at the end of the day, who’s against fun?

    Except for Santorum I mean.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  54. Nice like Happyfeet.

    Vice President Biden’s comments that rejection of President Obama’s jobs bill would lead to more crimes — including murder and rape — continue to stir controversy.

    Sen. John Barrasso, R-Wyo., accused the White House of “fear tactics” that reflected White House “desperation.” Biden’s factual claims about rape rates have also been disputed.

    When a reporter from the conservative periodical Human Events confronted Biden about the rape comments, Biden said: “Let’s get it straight, guy. Don’t screw around with me.”

    It’s hard to picture slow joe being some kind of thug, but sometimes he seems to want to cater that idea.

    So this reminds me a lot of other statistics democrats claimed, fell on their ass over, and then had the government go ahead and try to find the stats in a new way.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  55. Anita Bush comment raped me on this very blog.

    The LA Times (721840)

  56. Long-time readers of the site know that I do not consider prison rape funny.

    Oh, I dunno, I might be persuaded to pay cash for PPV no-holds-barred Bubba on either Charles Manson, or Sirhan Sirhan, or, MOS DEF, Rodney Alcala.

    My sense of humor is an acquired taste, however.

    Colonel Haiku (c7d740)

  57. Except the funds for police were only 1/7 of the total earmarked,

    narciso (87e966)

  58. Rapes will increase if you do not praise OBambi for this historic unprecedented action.

    JD (318f81)

  59. ______________________________________________

    I’ve *never* felt an iota of sexual attraction to a woman, for example. Comment by aphrael

    aphrael, you may be less common than what I originally believed or assumed was the case. That’s because I find same-sex behavior to be so extreme or peculiar, I naturally thought anyone involved in it had to be either socially desperate or perhaps was suffering from a form of sexual dyslexia. IOW, very little free will and free choice was influencing that person’s behavior.

    However, after coming upon various biographies (eg, of well-known people’s activities behind closed door—Michael Jackson, is one notorious case, Marlon Brando is another), coverage of people in the media (eg, an interview of a porno star who has performed in several gay adult movies, but who also is married — to a woman — and has several kids—who were NOT created through artificial insemination) and my own observations of people directly (eg, seeing somewhat effeminate males in the workplace, wondering if they were “that way,” but then hear them start talking about their girlfriends or wives), I now realize this should not be considered surprising:

    Rupert Everett has revealed he had a six-year affair with the late Paula Yates.

    The “My Best Friend’s Wedding” actor – who is openly homosexual – has admitted to a string of affairs with famous women, including Susan Sarandon, in his new autobiography.

    “I am mystified by my heterosexual affairs, but then I am mystified by most of my relationships,” he said.

    Mark (411533)

  60. Beldar,

    What will happen is we will see a sharp jump in the rate of rapes per 100k population since we will now be counting the rapes of the other half of the population also.

    And I suspect that will come into play somehow in politics shortly… to justify some major spending increase somewhere.

    My question is, will we be counting all the TSA rapes now?

    Dan S (548980)

  61. _______________________________________________

    It’s perfectly within the capabilities of every man to control himself. Comment by MayBee

    MayBee, and that apparently goes for the behavior behind same-sex attraction too. Even more so when I read things like the following. Or even more so when I recently watched Barbara Walters interview a well-known female singer (Katie Perry) who casually and nonchalantly said she’s kissed females and intimated she swings both ways. So, if anything, I find my opinion of same-sex marriage becoming even less sympathetic and much more cynical.

    shine.yahoo.com, Jessica Cruel, October 2011:

    Like most women, I have no shame in admitting that I find other females attractive. I have even admitted to being open to experimentation (“Of course I would sleep with Halle Berry! It’s a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity”). For women, it’s perfectly acceptable to be a little bi-curious (cue every male fantasy), and according to the latest research, it’s the norm.

    A new study reveals that women’s sexual preferences tend to be a gray area (yep, identity confusion wasn’t just for those college dorm days). In fact, researchers at Boise State University found that in a group of heterosexual women, 60 percent were physically interested in other women, 45 percent made out with a woman in the past, and 50 percent had fantasies about the same sex.

    I fall into that 60 percent.

    Sometimes when I catch myself staring at a beautiful woman in the grocery store, I wonder about my own sexuality. I’m not supposed to like girls! (At least according to society.)

    Mark (411533)

  62. I wonder if some of that bi-curiosity isn’t a manifestation of narcissism, Mark? Sub-consciously.

    Colonel Haiku (a951af)

  63. “I find same-sex behavior to be so extreme or peculiar, I naturally thought anyone involved in it had to be either socially desperate or perhaps was suffering from a form of sexual dyslexia.”

    You’re so clueless I’m inclined to discount anything you say on this topic other than, “I have a lot to learn”.

    Random (38d59c)

  64. I wonder if some of that bi-curiosity isn’t a manifestation of narcissism, Mark? Sub-consciously.

    We evolved as highly sexual primates, including non-monogamy and bisexuality, especially among females. For example, check out our “cousin” species, the one we’re genetically closest related to, the bonobo chimpanzees.

    Bisexuality is extremely common, especially for females, who rub each others’ clitorises as a form of bonding and outright pleasure.

    It USED to be, due to the sexual perversion of the Bible, that we stoned people for engaging in natural sexual relationships, for example sex before marriage, sex outside of marriage, and sex with members of the same sex.

    Now that most people pay mere lip service to the Bible since science has obviously better answers than that nasty, brutish, perverse text; people are reverting to less restrained, more natural sexual behaviors, without fear of the ghastly punishments and social ostracism inflicted on them by believers.

    This natural behavior includes large numbers of females being attracted to other females. We’re a somewhat polygamous species, after all. Don’t believe me? Check your Bible — and note the behavior of God’s chosen people before the legally monogamous Pagan Romans conquered and occupied them for centuries.

    In short, less artificial pressure on people to behave in set patterns means people are behaving more naturally, instinctively, which includes women making out with each other.

    Random (38d59c)

  65. *The first sentence above should have been in quotes.

    Random (38d59c)

  66. “This natural behavior includes large numbers of females being attracted to other females. We’re a somewhat polygamous species, after all. Don’t believe me? Check your Bible — and note the behavior of God’s chosen people before the legally monogamous Pagan Romans conquered and occupied them for centuries.

    In short, less artificial pressure on people to behave in set patterns means people are behaving more naturally, instinctively, which includes women making out with each other.”

    I say it’s all just wind in sails… but hot wind.

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  67. ___________________________________________

    You’re so clueless

    Perhaps you’re correct. After all, I recall listening to Howard Stern back in the early 1990s going on and on about his fascination with the anus, and anal sex in particular. I couldn’t relate to him and was very puzzled by his obsession. Even more so when he was normal enough to also say he couldn’t stand the thought of male-on-male sex because the “smell of a guy’s buttocks turned him off,” or something like that.

    So he was exhibiting a fetish that is associated with male homosexuality, while, at the same time, apparently also being someone who’s truly straight. One of his shows back then involved his taking a physiological test (which used sensors) that measured arousal to various explicit images, and he passed with flying colors. IOW, if he can be as behaviorally schizoid or contradictory as he is, anything is possible with people in general.

    But that’s why I think society — and political debate in particular — would be better off using the word “bisexual” more frequently instead of “gay.” That’s because the latter implies there is less free will and free choice in terms of human sexuality, while the former word makes it easier to assume that people are NOT etched in stone. Or to NOT assume that sexual behavior therefore is analogous to skin color, eye color, hair color, gender, height, etc.

    In short, less artificial pressure on people to behave in set patterns means people are behaving more naturally,

    And that’s why opponents of same-sex marriage are not being sarcastic or unfairly pushing the meme of the “slippery slope” when saying that if society has to accommodate homosexuality, it really isn’t much of a leap to say it also will have to accommodate polygamy. If anything, polygamy aligns closer to human nature, since more humans (ie, males) have a history of multi-partnerships or heterosexual promiscuity, and not a history of homosexuality.

    Mark (31bbb6)

  68. Howard Stern and Don Imus were once gay lovers.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  69. “So he was exhibiting a fetish that is associated with male homosexuality”

    Is it? Girls have anuses.

    I’ve had women lick my nipples. Does that make them lesbians?

    “if he can be as behaviorally schizoid or contradictory as he is”

    It isn’t behaviorally schizoid to be interested in a woman’s anus … because it’s on a woman.

    You know gay men and women both kiss, right? On the lips?

    Guess what? I’m a man and when I kiss a woman, I’m not doing so with latent homosexual fantasies. It’s really just fun to kiss a girl.

    It seems to me, with all due respect, that you’re the one who has some abnormalities in separating straight from homosexual behavior. The difference is the gender of the other person, not the body parts they share in common.

    “it also will have to accommodate polygamy. If anything, polygamy aligns closer to human nature, since more humans (ie, males) have a history of multi-partnerships or heterosexual promiscuity”

    Yes, quite. It’s also grounded in the behavior of “God’s chosen people”, not that I believe in that.

    Random (38d59c)

  70. “I’ve had women lick my nipples. Does that make them lesbians?”

    Random Note: Hot!

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  71. Teats on a bore!

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  72. _________________________________________

    Is it? Girls have anuses.

    But unlike dudes, they also have something in front of that part of their anatomy. So why the interest in something that’s for dumping body wastes and pretty much smells like it?

    I recall reading psychology texts years ago and researchers saying that a male’s fascination with the anus was homosexual in nature. If bisexuality also is more common than assumed, then it’s not going out on a tangent to theorize that if a male is aroused by a girl’s anus, he very well could be not much less interested in a guy’s one too. Even more so if that male is desperate and trapped in a prison.

    Research also should be done on the way political biases affect people’s behavior, since surveys do indicate a large percentage of the “LGBT” crowd is liberal—around 80%. IOW, what comes first? Their leftist instincts or their tendency to be involved in non-conforming sexual behavior, or visa versa?

    It’s also grounded in the behavior of “God’s chosen people”

    Not sure if that’s a smirk at people of the Jewish faith. However, if it is, then, yep, they nonetheless do have the foibles of all human beings. But people of that ancient civilization do deserve credit for observing the weaknesses in themselves and others, recording the nature and history of those failings, and passing down all those observations through generations by way of the Bible.

    If anything, after recently learning the details of the story of the town of Sodom, its mob of males trying to break into Lot’s house, Lot using his daughters as sacrificial lambs in order to save 2 male guests (which all reads like the lurid plot of a gay porno movie), and seeing how modern culture appears not too different from over 2,000 years ago (hello, San Francisco! hello, Catholic church!), I have even greater respect for the wisdom of ancient people who were the gatekeepers of the Bible.

    Mark (31bbb6)

  73. “Not sure if that’s a smirk at people of the Jewish faith.”

    It’s a recognition they were polygamous.

    Random (38d59c)

  74. Anyway, I don’t know the cleanliness habits of the women you sex, but the ones I do tend not to have really smell anuses. Or they can damn well bathe.

    Random (38d59c)

  75. “I have even greater respect for the wisdom of ancient people who were the gatekeepers of the Bible.”

    Well, except for the problems of them violently sexually molesting and disfiguring babies by cutting parts of their penises off; stoning people for this, that, or the other; raping captive young female slaves after killing everyone else in their family; etc.

    Random (38d59c)

  76. Ah, the classics.

    Icy (5239d5)

  77. ______________________________________________

    except for the problems of them violently

    The history of mankind is full of extremism and fanaticism, and the idiosyncrasies of human nature overall. So the text of the Bible merely records much of that, and if it struggles to reconcile one predicament or set of principles with another one, and sometimes ends up inconsistent in the process, that also is a reflection of the failings of humans.

    Such shortcomings are similar to — or may be rooted in — the same corrupt nature of the many people who have a peculiar, foolish soft spot in their heart for ruthless Communist regimes (eg, that of Stalin, Mao, Castro), because, after all, such ruthlessness was in the name of a greater good—supposed or imagined. In the name of the underdog! In the name of the sad proletariat! In the name of compassion! And how does that phrase go?: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

    Mark (31bbb6)

  78. Prison rape is about dominance and power imposed by violence… and yeah, they make someone else get them off.
    The word “bitch” is used to portray the victim as somehow less than a man so it is not a homosexual act.
    Prison rapists should be castrated.

    One the female side, Instapundit had an article on this some days ago. I forget when or I’d link it.
    But it involved a professor who was in some trouble with the feminists at his university Marquette rings a bell…
    I’ll be able to find it now, but the jist of it was how many “rapes” are coached. Like was the woman considered by the criteria to have been drunk to give consent, yet she continued to have sex with the “rapist” on multiple occasions later while sober. But the feminists would interview coeds and then count the drunk sex incidents as an unreported rape.
    Then some male student says: well what about that time when I was too drunk to have given consent but she wanted to?
    Ah. Not rape.

    SteveG (e27d71)

  79. Obama-I want everyone to have a fair shot and where everyone has to play by the rules………..unless your my rich homies.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  80. 75. Yeah we’re so much more civilized now.

    My ancestors raped and pillaged all of Europe, fathering future kings in France, Scotland, attacking Seville, etc.

    Now they’re seed hoarders and give medals to terrorists and imbeciles.

    Progress.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  81. raping captive young female slaves after killing everyone else in their family; etc.

    When did those rapes happen?

    I’ll be able to find it now, but the jist of it was how many “rapes” are coached. Like was the woman considered by the criteria to have been drunk to give consent, yet she continued to have sex with the “rapist” on multiple occasions later while sober. But the feminists would interview coeds and then count the drunk sex incidents as an unreported rape.
    Then some male student says: well what about that time when I was too drunk to have given consent but she wanted to?
    Ah. Not rape.

    Muddying the definition of rape will only lead to its normalization.

    If anything, after recently learning the details of the story of the town of Sodom, its mob of males trying to break into Lot’s house, Lot using his daughters as sacrificial lambs in order to save 2 male guests (which all reads like the lurid plot of a gay porno movie)

    And those daughters thanked him by getting him drunk and raping him, as the story goes.

    Michael Ejercito (64388b)

  82. I’m still looking for the part in the story of Sodom where God says Lot made the right decision…
    For all I know God said “holy crap, what a fuckwit.”
    I think I remember that God turned Lot into a pillar of salt at the first opportunity and then welcomed him into the idiots hall of shame

    [note: released from moderation. --Stashiu]

    SteveG (e27d71)

  83. “When did those rapes happen?”

    Many times, but you can’t go wrong by starting with Numbers 31 (which was many times in and of itself).

    Random (38d59c)

  84. Judges 5:30

    Random (38d59c)

  85. Exodus 21:7-11

    Random (38d59c)

  86. Etc.
    And et cetera.

    Random (38d59c)

  87. @Mark

    “Their leftist instincts or their tendency to be involved in non-conforming sexual behavior, or visa versa?”

    Political instincts. Like most things, it’s heavily influenced by genetics. Political thoughts tend to come before sexual activity.

    By the way, I’ve slept with relatively high numbers of your Christian/Mormon (even Muslim) conservative types, and they can be pretty “non-conforming” in that department, I’ll tell ‘ya.

    Turned on by other women, even if only the fact they’re in competition with them? Check. Directly by them? Often. Another woman or two along with a man? Oh yes. Anal? Yeah (and Catholic and Mormon virgins are famous for this: they have to protect their vaginal purity for some reason). Public sex? Virtually all of them. Pro-life, gun-owning Republicans? Indeed.

    Liberals probably have more non-conforming sex, but … they’re hardly the only ones. The women in church do too.

    Well, at least my women in various churches do. :P

    P.S. On the subject of anal sex with a lady.

    Now I can understand your objection to the perceived “dirtiness” of it, although where the enormous cleanliness of multi-fluid coated vaginas with the urethra less than an inch below the clitoris comes in escapes me. Or penises, with smegma, etc., and etc.

    But moving on.

    I can get this. I can certainly also understand being concerned that it would be painful or uncomfortable for your partner. Indeed, I could not understand why women would like it, then I had a girl (hot, petite — they’re into it the most in my experience — always the petite ones) ask me for it once. Talking about it later with another hot friend, I said, “Don’t you think it’s weird she wanted that? I can understand a guy wanting it, but why the girl. Wouldn’t it feel bad?”

    My petite hot figure-skater friend went beet-red and blushed. It was obvious she enjoyed it, which she soon explained (and demonstrated in the future, but that’s another story). So some chicks do like it.

    Let me give you an analogy about your feeling that it’s a wannabe “homosexual” act, or a quasi-one.

    Men and women have mouths, right? And they use them to pleasure their partners, right? In the case of females, this is the main method used for most couples.

    And a woman has a perfectly serviceable other location as you noted above, correct? However, does pleasuring a woman — or a woman pleasuring a man — make this homosexual, just because homosexual people work this into their sexuality?

    It isn’t mandatory for straight people. They have, umm, “straight” sex as an option. But they frequently go beyond this.

    Hands get involved too. Why use hands? Gay people use hands. Isn’t that “homo”?

    Not really.

    Random (38d59c)

  88. “When did those rapes happen?”

    Many times, but you can’t go wrong by starting with Numbers 31 (which was many times in and of itself).

    Um, excuse me? Where in this chapter do you see anything at all about rape? Raping the Midianite women would have defeated the whole point of the war, which was to avenge the damage done to the Jews by these women deliberately seducing Jewish men.

    Deuteronomy 20:10-14

    Again, no mention of rape.

    Judges 5:30

    Now I know you’re being deliberately dishonest. This is Sisera’s mother and her maids gloating about how her son and his men were probably busy raping Jewish women! How do you twist that into an example of Jews raping anyone?

    Zechariah 14:1-2

    Once again, a description of Jerusalem being pillaged and its women raped somehow turns in your sick mind into an accusation against the Jews?!

    Exodus 21:7-11

    Where’s the rape? The buyer is supposed to marry the girl, or have his son marry her, and give her the same rights as any wife. This is the exact opposite of rape!

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  89. violently sexually molesting and disfiguring babies by cutting parts of their penises off;

    If that’s your attitude then you can go take a long walk off a short pier. Circumcision is not sexual molestation.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  90. Yeah but when Gorebull Warming is done he will take a long walk off a underwater pier.

    /Snark

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  91. You are a f——ing madman, Milhouse.

    Killing a young virgin woman/girl’s entire family, father, husband, brother, older sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents, then forcing her into a marriage with one of the warriors who slew her kin is f——ing rape.

    You a—hole.

    Random (38d59c)

  92. I’ve had women lick my nipples. Does that make them lesbians?

    – Maybe not before they did it; but afterwards . . .

    Icy (5239d5)

  93. This is straying dangerously close to an aCe ONT

    narciso (87e966)

  94. Milhouse, I was about to apologize for letting my temper get the better of me, using harsh words, and making it personal over a difference of opinion, but then I caught myself typing just now and remembered you — figuratively speaking — wished me death over a difference of opinion; so stuff that.

    Random (38d59c)

  95. Killing a young virgin woman/girl’s entire family, father, husband, brother, older sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents, then forcing her into a marriage with one of the warriors who slew her kin is f——ing rape.

    What the #$%^ are you talking about?

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  96. And Icy, that was funny. Ha.

    Random (38d59c)

  97. “What the #$%^ are you talking about?”

    Numbers 31

    31:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
    31:2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.
    31:3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian.
    31:4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.
    31:5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.
    31:6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.
    31:7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
    31:8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
    31:9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
    31:10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
    31:11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
    31:12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
    31:13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
    31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
    31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
    31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
    31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
    31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
    31:19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.
    31:20 And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and all work of goats’ hair, and all things made of wood.
    31:21 And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD commanded Moses;
    31:22 Only the gold, and the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead,
    31:23 Every thing that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean: nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation: and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water.
    31:24 And ye shall wash your clothes on the seventh day, and ye shall be clean, and afterward ye shall come into the camp.
    31:25 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
    31:26 Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:
    31:27 And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:
    31:28 And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:
    31:29 Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.
    31:30 And of the children of Israel’s half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.
    31:31 And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.
    31:32 And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,
    31:33 And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,
    31:34 And threescore and one thousand asses,
    31:35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.
    31:36 And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:
    31:37 And the LORD’s tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.
    31:38 And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the LORD’s tribute was threescore and twelve.
    31:39 And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the LORD’s tribute was threescore and one.
    31:40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the LORD’s tribute was thirty and two persons.
    31:41 And Moses gave the tribute, which was the LORD’s heave offering, unto Eleazar the priest, as the LORD commanded Moses.
    31:42 And of the children of Israel’s half, which Moses divided from the men that warred,
    31:43 (Now the half that pertained unto the congregation was three hundred thousand and thirty thousand and seven thousand and five hundred sheep,
    31:44 And thirty and six thousand beeves,
    31:45 And thirty thousand asses and five hundred,
    31:46 And sixteen thousand persons;)
    31:47 Even of the children of Israel’s half, Moses took one portion of fifty, both of man and of beast, and gave them unto the Levites, which kept the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD; as the LORD commanded Moses.
    31:48 And the officers which were over thousands of the host, the captains of thousands, and captains of hundreds, came near unto Moses:
    31:49 And they said unto Moses, Thy servants have taken the sum of the men of war which are under our charge, and there lacketh not one man of us.
    31:50 We have therefore brought an oblation for the LORD, what every man hath gotten, of jewels of gold, chains, and bracelets, rings, earrings, and tablets, to make an atonement for our souls before the LORD.
    31:51 And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of them, even all wrought jewels.
    31:52 And all the gold of the offering that they offered up to the LORD, of the captains of thousands, and of the captains of hundreds, was sixteen thousand seven hundred and fifty shekels.
    31:53 (For the men of war had taken spoil, every man for himself.)
    31:54 And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of the captains of thousands and of hundreds, and brought it into the tabernacle of the congregation, for a memorial for the children of Israel before the LORD.

    Random (38d59c)

  98. Well, except for the problems of them violently sexually molesting and disfiguring babies by cutting parts of their penises off;

    Seriously? It’s come to that?

    Now, I think a wife has to consent to sex. That’s the modern view and has been for a long time.

    It wasn’t always that way. That’s a huge shame, but not a reason to bash a religion. Mankind has evolved.

    Killing a young virgin woman/girl’s entire family, father, husband, brother, older sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents, then forcing her into a marriage with one of the warriors who slew her kin is f——ing rape.

    Actually, no it’s not. Non-consensual sex is rape. Killing someone’s older sisters is murder and not directly relevant. Sounds like you’re spicing your argument heavily with emotion.

    And I don’t think Milhouse endorsed the notion of slaughtering a family, nor did he endorse rape. Let’s be reasonable.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  99. and I’m really even saying you’re wrong Random. I’m sure a lot of forced wives were raped (though I wouldn’t bet all of them were… people can be human on their own sometimes).

    I just think maybe the reaction here is a little over the top.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  100. Anyway, goodnight Dustin. Goodnight all

    Random (38d59c)

  101. Thanks, and same to you.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  102. Interesting thread.

    Half Dr. Ruth…half bible studies.

    You don’t see that everyday.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  103. “What the #$%^ are you talking about?”

    Numbers 31

    Yes, I’m quite familiar with it. I can pretty much rattle it off by heart. Now where the @#%^ in there do you see any reference to rape? It’s not there. It doesn’t exist, outside your diseased mind.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  104. Now, I think a wife has to consent to sex. That’s the modern view and has been for a long time.

    It wasn’t always that way.

    Maybe not, but I don’t see how that’s relevant. Random is claiming that my ancestors were rapists, and has so far cited no proof. At least in my culture, the wife’s consent has been seen as necessary for at least 2000 years, and probably longer.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  105. I’m sure a lot of forced wives were raped

    Maybe, but so far he hasn’t cited any instances of forced marriage, let alone rape.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  106. This is where the spam is coming from;

    http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=44

    narciso (87e966)

  107. 104. Lets have a battle royal by proxy:

    Random vs. JBS–Two enter, one leaves.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  108. _________________________________________________

    By the way, I’ve slept with relatively high numbers of your Christian/Mormon (even Muslim) conservative types, and they can be pretty “non-conforming” in that department, I’ll tell ‘ya.

    That I don’t doubt, and for some reason when the word “hypocrite” or “hypocrisy” comes to mind, more people in their mind will conjure up the example you cite instead of the two-faced, contradictory behavior I frequently point to as defined by the phrase “limousine liberalism.”

    There’s also the phrase of: “There may not be goodness in the heart of the larcenous, but there’s always a bit of larceny in the heart of the good.” Or another way of saying “we’re all born sinners.” Or an acknowledgement that every human has weaknesses and failings, sometimes quite disruptive and dangerous ones.

    That’s why more people on the right than on the left are cautious and less naive or foolish about human nature. And that awareness is why I have a greater sense of the value and meaning of the Bible, or ancient text that struggles to illustrate both the good and bad in human nature and attempts to be as sensible about it as possible.

    In this era of increasingly secular Western civilization, I know growing numbers of people don’t realize or respect that concept. Instead they’ll proclaim: “Being liberal and compassionate is my holy bible! Praying at the altar of GLBT rights, the environment, of animal rights, of civil rights, of diversity (big hugs to sadly misunderstood, non-Westernized Mohammed and Islam!), of taxing big corporations, takes place at the best church of all!”

    Mark (411533)

  109. “Yes, I’m quite familiar with it. I can pretty much rattle it off by heart. Now where the @#%^ in there do you see any reference to rape? It’s not there. It doesn’t exist, outside your diseased mind.”

    If you can defend Numbers 31, you are a piece of excrement, Milhouse.

    “Random is claiming that my ancestors were rapists”

    Yep. Some, anyway.

    “This is where the spam is coming from;”

    The posts in question came from the skeptic website I linked to (obviously) and the Bible, but way to do some real abstract thinking.

    Random (38d59c)

  110. THe question of what point, that is trying to be made, that rape is a justifiable tool of war, but only by some groups.

    narciso (87e966)

  111. Milhouse, let me be clear.

    I think when you kill someone’s (a girl young enough to still be an unmarried virgin in that era) entire family and marry her off to the conquering warriors, that’s rape.

    Every bit as much so as done by SS soldiers on the Eastern front. Minus, in some cases, the kill her whole family thing first.

    Random (38d59c)

  112. ____________________________________________

    Let me give you an analogy about your feeling that it’s a wannabe “homosexual” act

    It obviously doesn’t have to be, but in general it probably is, including based on the theories of various psychologists dating back quite awhile.

    However, from a purely technical standpoint, I recall talking to a guy at my workplace (who, btw, was Asian) several years ago and his saying that his preference for that part of a woman was due to the issue of snugness. TMI, but you get the picture.

    But also keep in mind that the word “asshole” is one of the most derogatory in the English language, and so if that part of the human anatomy is used as a very negative metaphor in one instance, why it doesn’t trigger similarly negative reactions in general is puzzling to me.

    Mark (411533)

  113. Gotta get some nuance, Mark. Contextual nuance.

    Random (38d59c)

  114. If you can defend Numbers 31, you are a piece of excrement, Milhouse.

    I don’t need to defend it; it’s God’s command, and He created and defines right and wrong, so it’s right by definition. But this isn’t about defending anything, it’s about your reading things into the text that aren’t there.

    I think when you kill someone’s (a girl young enough to still be an unmarried virgin in that era) entire family and marry her off to the conquering warriors, that’s rape.

    Whether you’re right or wrong, the chapter you cited contains to no such incident. Nobody marries anybody. Nobody has sex of any kind, forced or voluntary, married or single. So your opinion about whether such a marriage would be rape is irrelevant.

    Every bit as much so as done by SS soldiers on the Eastern front.

    SS soldiers married local women? That’s news to me.

    It obviously doesn’t have to be, but in general it probably is, including based on the theories of various psychologists dating back quite awhile.

    Which ones, and what did they know about it? This probably says more about them than about anything in reality.

    But also keep in mind that the word “asshole” is one of the most derogatory in the English language,

    Is it really? I don’t think so. Rather less than “c–t”, actually.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  115. __________________________________________

    This probably says more about them than about anything in reality.

    To me this is like arguing over the point that the smell of human feces is not pleasant. IOW, to claim otherwise is like resisting basic logic in the first place.

    However, the fact more women than men are disgusted by anal sex is an interesting difference. Then again, male sexuality does tend to lean in the direction of so-called “piggish” behavior, or more likely to be indiscriminate and promiscuous. That’s likely the reason rates of homosexuality are higher among males than females. So all of these characteristics probably do relate to one another and end up making a full circle.

    psychologytoday.com, Nathan Heflick:

    Do men and women differ in their attitudes toward anal sex? Are these attitudes related to anti-gay attitudes? Recent research by psychologists at the University of South Florida (Jennifer Bosson and Andrew Caswell, and to a lesser extent, myself) assessed these issues.

    In the first study, male and female participants (235) were assigned to read a description of gay men having anal sex. Overall, participants showed greater disgust towards the male who was penetrated (bottom) than the male who was the penetrator (top). In addition to sexual position, participants read a description of the gay male that was stereotypically feminine or masculine. When the description matched the sexual position stereotype (e.g., feminine male on the bottom), males higher in initial anti-gay prejudice had more disgust (compared to those low in prejudice). However, when there wasn’t a match (e.g., a masculine male on the bottom), disgust was equally high regardless of prior attitudes toward homosexuals.

    In a follow up study, we assessed attitudes toward anal sex based on the gender of those having sex. Male and female participants read descriptions of either a heterosexual or a homosexual couple having anal sex. Results indicated that males had more disgust when it was performed by two men than a man and a woman.

    However, and interestingly, women found gay male anal sex just as disgusting as heterosexual anal sex. BUT, men did not find heterosexual anal sex disgusting overall, and found it less disgusting than women.

    Together, these studies suggest that disgust is increased by gay male anal sex, and especially for the male in the penetrated role. A wide range of research shows that disgust triggers an avoidance response. So basically, people could avoid homosexuals because their primary sex act (which they can’t do anything about) elicits feelings of ickiness (in a lot of people).

    Another interesting implication could be that men might seriously hurt their chances of sex (or even interaction) with a female, if they make a request for anal sex (since a lot of women find this disgusting). As evolutionary psychologists have suggested, disgust evolved to protect people from things that could cause illness (e.g., bad tasting foods, vomit, urine), because it elicits a flight response.

    ^ That last sentence is one reason why I believe there is an innate, inherent disquiet (or disapproval) among many people — including even various liberals, particularly the ones who aren’t honest about their own nature — towards homosexuality, particularly when it involves males.

    Mark (411533)

  116. ________________________________________

    Is it really? I don’t think so.

    Milhouse, I said it was ONE of the most derogatory words or putdowns out there, not THE worst one.

    Mark (411533)

  117. I think being called Obama or Pelosi or Romney is a putdown.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  118. Killing a young virgin woman/girl’s entire family, father, husband, brother, older sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents, then forcing her into a marriage with one of the warriors who slew her kin is f——ing rape.

    They were not forced to marry the warriors, although many of them did, as the warriors were the only available men.

    Michael Ejercito (64388b)

  119. They were not forced to marry the warriors, although many of them did, as the warriors were the only available men.

    On the contrary, having just fought a war because the Midianite women had seduced the Jewish men, the victorious Jewish warriors would have been very unlikely to have married their captives, who were in any case too young to marry for some time. These girls were taken as slaves, and presumably when they grew up they were matched with male slaves, or else remained single.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  120. Milhouse, I said it was ONE of the most derogatory words or putdowns out there, not THE worst one.

    Um, you’re kind of missing the point. Think about it, and why I chose specifically the example I gave.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  121. I don’t need to defend it; it’s God’s command, and He created and defines right and wrong, so it’s right by definition. But this isn’t about defending anything, it’s about your reading things into the text that aren’t there.

    There sure as hell is a lot of killing of baby boys there. So I will say your ancestors were definitely baby killers. Murderers.

    Random (38d59c)

  122. Mark, I sometimes have disgust about anal sex (when watching porn; it’s hardly a day-to-day part of my sex life). But it’s more out of not wanting to hurt the woman, or even the cleanliness argument you made earlier, than because it’s gay. It isn’t.

    Random (38d59c)

  123. anal retentive or anal repetitive? You be the judge.

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  124. There sure as hell is a lot of killing of baby boys there. So I will say your ancestors were definitely baby killers. Murderers.

    Ah, so now you’re changing your complaint. No more rape charges; now you’re shifting to murder. Very well. Yes, they did kill those babies, and it would certainly have been murder had they decided to do so on their own, or had they merely guessed that it might please God for them to do so. But they didn’t do that; they killed those babies because God specifically ordered them to do so. That is by definition lawful, and not murder.

    God creates us all and gives us life, and takes back that life when it suits Him; every person who lives eventually dies, when God chooses. Does that make Him a murderer?! Of course not; life comes from Him, and He is not obligated to keep giving it indefinitely, any more than giving someone a gift three Xmases in a row creates an obligation to keep giving him gifts indefinitely. He is entitled to take any person’s life directly; it follows that He’s equally entitled to use a human agent to do so.

    Milhouse (d3fd53)

  125. “31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.”

    “31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.”

    What a bunch of scumbgas.

    That Moses character was kind of a dick, assuming the stories are true.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  126. I meant “scumbags”.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  127. Milhouse, you are a sicko.

    Random (38d59c)

  128. “So I will say your ancestors were definitely baby killers. Murderers.”

    I reckon that’s pretty much true of all us.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  129. Three words… Debbie Poodleman Shultz.

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  130. That Moses character was kind of a dick, assuming the stories are true.

    Those are God’s words, not Moses’s.

    Milhouse, you are a sicko.

    For acknowledging that this is God’s world, and He has the right to do as He pleases with it? At least you acknowledge that your accusation of rape was false. Are you going to apologise for it?

    Milhouse (dc2f1d)

  131. *murderous

    Random (38d59c)

  132. According to the newspapers, the person responsible for this change is Joe Biden.

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  133. Deuteronomy 21:10-14 looks specifically designed to prevent or at least minimize rape.

    He is allowed to take her as a wife. But for sex, he has to wait. But because something is coming he might be willing to wait. He has to take off the captive garments. She has to prepare herself to look good. She has to be allowed to mourn for a month. Then he can do it.

    And then if he decides that he doesn’t want to stay married to her, he has to let her go free, and not sell her, because he had relations with her.

    The Rabbis say all this is set up on account of what people would do.

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  134. The whole idea is that the soldier should think better of the whole thing.

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  135. A shout out to Random… he’s got your back!

    “BreakingNews Malaysian court acquits opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim of sodomy – AP”

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  136. Anyway it took the FBI that long?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  137. Leftards in NY using the Gabriel Giffords shooting to squelch 2nd amendment rights.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  138. The whole idea is that the soldier should think better of the whole thing.

    It also gives her a month in which to consider her options. There’s no hint that he can rape her, any more than any husband is entitled to rape his wife.

    Milhouse (d3fd53)

  139. Gabby*

    Sorry but that manwhore Whoopi Goldberg doesn’t consider it rape-rape.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  140. “Those are God’s words, not Moses’s.”

    What’s that babble supposed to mean?

    According to the story, Moses ordered the extermination of the Midianite prisoners, just like Adolf Hitler ordered the extermination of the Jews, excepting only some of the younger women who were handed over to the army for their own personal use

    He was a scumbag…assuming the story is true.

    Big shock God wouldn’t let him into the promised land.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  141. “Those are God’s words, not Moses’s.”

    What’s that babble supposed to mean?

    It’s a perfectly grammatical sentence. Any literate person can easily understand it. What’s your problem with it.

    According to the story, Moses ordered the extermination of the Midianite prisoners,

    No, according to the story God ordered this.

    just like Adolf Hitler ordered the extermination of the Jews,

    Hitler didn’t create the world. He was not the arbiter of right and wrong. He was not the one giving all those people life as an undeserved gift in the first place, and thus he had no right to withdraw it. The comparison is not only blasphemous but, worse, illogical.

    excepting only some of the younger women who were handed over to the army for their own personal use

    What is this “personal use”? Are you intimating something sexual? These girls were too young for sex. They were part of the spoils of war, and were distributed in the same way as all the other spoils.

    He was a scumbag…assuming the story is true.Big shock God wouldn’t let him into the promised land.

    What, for obeying His orders?! On the contrary, he was kept in the desert because of the one time he didn’t obey God’s orders, the one time he improvised of his own initiative.

    Milhouse (d3fd53)

  142. “The comparison is not only blasphemous…”

    Comparing two butchers who killed defenseless women and children is blasphemous, eh?

    I’ll be sure to keep a sharp eye out for the religious police. Sounds like I’m in big trouble.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  143. Comparing two butchers who killed defenseless women and children is blasphemous, eh?

    Comparing Hitler to God is blasphemous. It’s also illogical. God has killed many more people than Hitler ever did. He’s responsible for every death that has ever happened in history; indeed, He’s also responsible for Hitler, if it comes to that. But of course He has every right to withdraw the gift of life whenever He pleases, since He’s the One Who gives it in the first place. If someone supplies you with free electricity, they have the right to stop.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  144. “Comparing Hitler to God is blasphemous”

    Comparing Moses to Hitler isn’t.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  145. Comparing Moses to Hitler isn’t.

    Well, actually it is. But that’s irrelevant, because the orders you compared to Hitler’s were not those of Moses, they were those of God.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  146. “Well, actually it is”

    Well, actually it isn’t.

    Moses was a man, not God, and I can slam on him, and on the actions he performed, 24/7, without engaging in blasphemy:

    1. a: the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God b: the act of claiming the attributes of deity

    2: irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  147. Did you follow the links?

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  148. No, I don’t need your links. I already know what blasphemy means.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  149. Holy Moses!

    Colonel Haiku (b486eb)

  150. :wink:

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  151. Colonel Haiku sexually harassed me with his Romney pimping.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  152. That just following orders excuse has not worked out too well as a way to avoid punishment in recent times, just sayin’.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  153. I know.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  154. That just following orders excuse has not worked out too well as a way to avoid punishment in recent times, just sayin’.

    That was when the order giver was human.

    When the Order Giver is God, who is Sovereign over all…

    Michael Ejercito (64388b)

  155. “That just following orders excuse has not worked out too well as a way to avoid punishment in recent times, just sayin’.”

    Neither has the God Told Me To Do It excuse.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  156. Or my dog told me to do it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  157. If so, aren’t most males — straight, gay or bi — prone to being non-monogamous and promiscuous?

    No, that’s a classic hoary feminist myth.

    Both males and females stray from monogamy at mostly equal rates, with it weighted slightly on the female side.

    Women are much more prone to serial monogamy, however… But when women practice that, it’s conveniently called “divorce”. Note that women are the ones who file for divorce in a much, much larger percentage of cases (even if you exclude cases of adultery on the part of the male), and many of the times when the men file, it’s because of the wife cheating on them.

    I Got Bupkis, Fomenter of "small-l" libertarianism (8e2a3d)

  158. For another, as MayBee hinted, it’s extremely difficult psychologically for most male rape victims to admit to it to other people; the issue can’t be addressed *at all* until the men who are victims are willing to talk about it, which most of them aren’t.

    Because, as usual, there’s no such thing as a “men’s movement”. And every time one starts, feminism and the liberal establishment stomp on it like a ton of bricks. How DARE the victimizers complain that they are victims, too!?!? If that was allowed to happen, who would they blame, then?!?

    I Got Bupkis, Fomenter of "small-l" libertarianism (8e2a3d)

  159. “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord”–Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

    Yeah, yeah, that’s what they all say…except for the Godless, commie mass-murderers, of course.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  160. ____________________________________________

    No, that’s a classic hoary feminist myth.

    Actually, I thought lots of feminists — and therefore leftists in general — promoted the idea that female nature and biology were similar, if not pretty much identical to, that of the male. So the amount of horniness and a desire to boast about sexual conquests was as great in the female as it was in the male.

    However, if more women than men do prefer monogamy, then the greater numbers of women than men to file for divorce is an interesting irony. However, could that be due to more females than males feeling greater resentment when their spouse is unfaithful, or non-monogamous? Then again, far more females than males (if any at all) throughout history have been willing partners in polygamous relationships, in which they accepted sharing their husbands with other women.

    Mark (411533)

  161. I feel so cheap. And used.

    Well, there’s your problem. If you’re gonna get used, you might as well at least make them pay through the nose. I would never suggest you should “lay back and enjoy it”, but you ought to at least attempt to profit from it. :-D

    In the Kingdom of the Blind, the One-eyed Man is King!

    Oh, there are just SOOOOooo many things wrong with that allusion in this context. :-D

    It’s hard to picture slow joe being some kind of thug, but sometimes he seems to want to cater that idea.

    Dude, he’s both a liberal AND a Democrat. Both classes are thugs almost by self-definition.

    an interview of a porno star who has performed in several gay adult movies,

    Hey, Peter North was in a couple gay movies early in his career. All indications are he prefers women to exclusion ever since. Likely he just wasn’t repulsed by the idea as many men are, and he needed the money. Lack of inhibition can be economically beneficial in our society at just about any level of the social strata.

    I Got Bupkis, Fomenter of "small-l" libertarianism (8e2a3d)

  162. _______________________________________

    and he needed the money.

    FWIW, the person I was describing — interviewed several years ago on one of those daytime talk shows — had a somewhat effeminate quality. He was the type who in past years I’d have assumed seemed too stereotypically gay to not be gay. That’s why I think the word “bisexual” needs to be used more frequently, particularly since the public shouldn’t fall for the notion — promoted by the left — that human behavior is set in concrete. Or that the issue of same-sex marriage is analogous to those revolving around human characteristics that are 100% immutable or unchangeable, such as a person’s skin color.

    Mark (411533)

  163. I would never suggest you should “lay back and enjoy it”, but you ought to at least attempt to profit from it.

    Are you suggesting I should have charged MayBee to assault me with her eyes?!?!?

    JD (a32879)

  164. “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord”–Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

    He could claim to believe it all he liked, but his orders were his own. God didn’t tell him anything. For that matter, he was a pagan; he didn’t even believe in the God of the Bible.

    Milhouse (d7842d)

  165. Yeah, I think we can safely say that old Adolf wasn’t following the commandments (not to mention the teachings of Christ)…even though he claimed to be doing God’s work.

    Kinda like Moses.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  166. Obama is smart?

    Anyone who thinks that is is an useful idiot.

    Anyone who calls Gingrich or Romney a corrupt poltician while admitting they support Insider Training Pelosi has no room to talk.

    With Gingrich the rich would get taxes lowered by 1%-Useful idiot lefty who supports Michael Moore using offshore funds to get away with not paying taxes.

    Yeah I know leftys you consider a cut in SS and Medicare evil unless it is used for wasteful things.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  167. With Obama we would only go to war if Obama approves of the war.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  168. Kinda like Moses.

    And you keep ignoring that fact that these were not Moses’s orders at all; they were God’s direct orders. Moses merely passed them along.

    You also ignore the proof I cited that criticising Moses is blasphemy.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  169. “And you keep ignoring that fact that these were not Moses’s orders at all; they were God’s direct orders.”

    Yeah, I believe that about as much as I believe that Noah lived to be 950 years old.

    Or, about as much as I believe that Hitler was doing the Lord’s work.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  170. And you keep ignoring that fact that these were not Moses’s orders at all; they were God’s direct orders.

    Yeah, I believe that about as much as I believe that Noah lived to be 950 years old.

    If you don’t believe that they were God’s orders, then what basis do you have for believing that the whole thing happened at all?

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  171. “…then what basis do you have for believing that the whole thing happened at all?”

    I don’t necessarily. That’s why I said:

    “That Moses character was kind of a dick, ASSUMING THE STORIES ARE TRUE.”

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  172. And ASSUMING THE STORIES ARE TRUE the orders came from God. Therefore your attack is not only blasphemous but — worse — illogical.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  173. “Therefore your attack is not only blasphemous but — worse — illogical.”

    On the contrary…

    1.) People who order the of murder innocent women and children are dicks.

    2.) Hitler and Moses ordered the murder of innocent women and children.

    3.) Therefore it follows that Hitler and Moses were dicks.

    I assure you that the logic is unassailable.

    Don’t worry about it. Logic isn’t something religious fanatics usually understand.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  174. 177. Actually, I’m pretty sure farm animals do well with logic.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  175. Hitler and Moses ordered the murder of innocent women and children.

    Only if MKoses ordering the death of innocent women and children was in fact murder.

    Michael Ejercito (64388b)

  176. Then again, far more females than males (if any at all) throughout history have been willing partners in polygamous relationships, in which they accepted sharing their husbands with other women.

    why would that be?

    Michael Ejercito (64388b)

  177. I should know better, but this raises an interesting question:

    If God orders you to do something, are you under duress? I mean, you’re obeying the almighty. You cannot escape his final judgment. Free will is notional when you know for certain that the Judeo-Christian God will evaluate your decisions.

    Dustin (cb3719)


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