Patterico's Pontifications

1/5/2012

Eric Boehlert Cites Gingrich As Proof Swift Vets Were Liars

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:28 am



And attacks me in the process:

Responding to a relentless wave of Iowa attacks ads produced by a Mitt Romney-friendly Super PAC, an angry Newt Gingrich last week challenged Romney to debate the “dishonest” commercials. Over the holiday weekend, Gingrich said of the ads, “I feel Romney-boated.”

. . . .

But wait, everyone knows the Swifties peddled slanderous lies about John Kerry, right? Everyone acknowledges their ad campaign represented a new low point in American politics, right?

Wrong.

For years, prominent right-wing bloggers have clung to the parallel universe belief that the Swifties were honorable men and that none of their wild Vietnam War claims about Kerry were ever debunked. Within the right-wing media, the Swift Boat Veterans are fondly remembered as heroes who “courageously told the untold truths.”

Previously, from Michelle Malkin:

A reminder to conservatives: “Swift-Boating” does not equal smearing. Swift-Boating means exposing hard truths about corrupt Democrats.

From Powerline:

Most of what the Vets said in their ads has never been disputed, let alone discredited.

From Patterico’s Pontifications:

The canard that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth was a “smear campaign” is so well accepted by Big Media that ABC NEWS feels comfortable in portraying the Swifties’ ad campaign as “slanderous” and “smear ads.”

On and on the denial goes as far-right bloggers cling to their Swift Boat fantasy.

Actually, the fantasy and spinning is being done by Eric Boehlert. Let’s look at the post of mine that he links. In it, do I engage in denial or factual distortion? No. Instead, I note that Beldar had issued a challenge for anyone to prove a material fact that the Swifties had lied about — a challenge unmet to this day. Meanwhile, I noted, Big Media adopted the herd-like canard that “Swift Boating” means “lying” while themselves distorting the facts:

Meanwhile, I have yet to see anyone meet Beldar’s challenge to name a single specific and material statement of fact by the Swift Boaters that has been fully debunked, or shown to be fully unsubstantiated.

Wouldn’t stating material falsehoods be a critical component of a “slanderous” campaign of “smear ads”?

In fact, as I have previously observed, the media often has a worse track record of inaccuracies on this issue than do the Swifties.

Boehlert can’t confront me on the facts. Indeed, I would post this as a comment at Media Matters, but I am essentially banned there (at least on Boehlert’s posts) — despite never having posted anything but factual refutations of their lies.

That is their commitment to truth.

And Boehlert is the one with a history of making unsupported claims — including one about the Swift Vets, as I show in this post.

Boehlert’s lazy and ridiculous screed is useful for one thing, though: highlighting Gingrich’s willingness to accept a tired media canard if it serves his own political purposes. Someone should track down Gingrich and confront him on this.

However, that is unlikely to happen, because the sheep and cattle in the media all accept the herd’s judgment on the Swift Vets.

Thanks to Jay for the heads up.

199 Responses to “Eric Boehlert Cites Gingrich As Proof Swift Vets Were Liars”

  1. John Kerry is a petulant douschebag.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  2. This is another example of loose cannon Newt using the left’s rhetoric against his Republican opponent when nothing else will serve.

    Mike K (9ebddd)

  3. I thought the swifties were a lot validated when Kerry lost.

    But I don’t think Newt meant to say that they were liars I think he was trying to focus attention on how facile Wall Street Romney is with the truth and also on how the media gives Wall Street Romney a pass on all his lies and lies.

    He just got picked the wrong neologism, which is easy to do if you’re speaking off the cuff.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  4. You know that Newt spent a lot of time sitting on a couch and making nice with Nancy Pelosi.

    Newt’s a bright guy–a loose cannon–a good debater–and not likely to get my vote for President.

    He is a fairly able member of the species “Potomac Putz”.

    Comanche Voter (0e06a9)

  5. The vets were offended when antiAmerican fabulist kept metrosexual imbecile reported “Ready for Duty”.

    The final straw was the “Band of Brothers”.

    Newt’s was a throwaway line, grow up squanto.

    gary gulrud (1de2db)

  6. Wall Street Romney though spent a lot of time canoodling with ted kennedy about how cool their socialist health care plan was what put the boot of the state firmly on the individual’s neck and stompy stomp stomped.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  7. Typical of Newt. He needs to ask himself, “who does this serve?” before making inane comments like this.

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  8. 3. ‘neologism’. Good on ya.

    gary gulrud (1de2db)

  9. Newt is a pompous jackanape.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  10. yes Newt is extremely pompous

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  11. happyfeet shall return after this brief timeout . . . during which Kissazz Rooter shall be performing a cranium et rectum extraction on Mr Gingrich.

    Icy (e6ad7f)

  12. Agreed Newt is pompous A failing indeed. He’s the last best chance that’s left us though.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  13. Mr. Newt will help make Lindsey’s Florist thrive and thrive whereas Wall Street Romney is too timid, and that should be part of the debate I think

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  14. ____________________________________________

    highlighting Gingrich’s willingness to accept a tired media canard

    Triggered by all the left-leaning squish in the guy. If he truly understood philosophy or ideology, that of his own and others — or certainly those who wanted to reveal the screwball liberal biases of John Kerry — he’d never have used the phrase “Romney boated.”

    Gingrich’s sentiment is not much better than those who’ve used the canard that “Willie Horton” was an unfair attack instigated by Bush Sr against Michael Dukakis. Never mind that issue was to point out the irresponsibility and dangerousness of releasing convicted killers back into the public.

    Most of the Republican candidates and, of course, President “Goddamn America” illustrate there’s no shortage of liberal bias in just about every human out there. Always keep that in mind and always doubt the sanity and soundness of that bias.

    If Bush Sr. had understood that, he’d never have done things like choosing the stealth liberal of David Souter to the Supreme Court, and if Reagan had understood that, he’d never have pulled a Jimmy-Carter stunt in 1985 and (based on Reagan’s own comment that it was due to “compassion”) secretly negotiated with hostage-taking Iran.

    Mark (411533)

  15. Agreed about throwaway nature of line. People perfectly understood him, and that’s why people use words at all, to be understood.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  16. A Swiftboat Vet divorced Newt’s still-living wife on her deathbed in a Hospital that you can see Russia from.

    Kaisersoze (298188)

  17. and in the spirit of honesty Mr. Kerry’s military record is more illustrious than Wall Street Romney’s and Newty Newt’s put together with amaretto cream cheese icing on top

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  18. Newt’s was a throwaway line, grow up squanto.

    I’ll ignore your childish “grow up” insult and simply take issue with your implicit argument that it’s perfectly fine to adopt a media-herd-approved shorthand term for dishonesty that is based itself on a lie. When a thoughtful conservative wants to complain about being defamed he ought not reach immediately for the term [opponent]-boated. That plays right into the hands of the Boehlerts of the world.

    Patterico (373207)

  19. 12. Bullseye. Patton was a great leader, not a diplomat, not a flawless technician, an egoist, flamboyant to a fault, but born to the hour.

    The ship of state is holed below decks. We absolutely do not need a captain who looks good at the head of the table in dress uni.

    gary gulrud (1de2db)

  20. Boehlert is ronbryn with a bigger microphone.

    JD (392f2d)

  21. Boehlert is ronbr@n with a bigger microphone.

    JD (392f2d)

  22. 18. “I’ll ignore your childish “grow up” insult”

    Not an insult Pilgrim, friendly advice from an elder. Have some respect for my grey head.

    gary gulrud (1de2db)

  23. TDenial is a large tributary for him;

    Emerson was also criticized in a 2002 review of American Jihad in the liberal[52] Salon by Eric Boehlert. Boehlert called Emerson a “heavy-handed scaremonger who fails to grasp – or deliberately blurs – the most rudimentary distinctions between different radical groups.” Boehlert also criticizes Emerson for saying that Ghazi Ibrahim abu Mezer, a Palestinian immigrant who planned to blow up a Brooklyn, N.Y., subway station,[53][54] was a member of Hamas when James Kallstrom, head of the New York FBI office, said that he wasn’t.[55] A Chicago Tribune article, however, notes that while Kallstrom did indeed say there was no connection, the AP reported that a federal law enforcement source said that both suspects were linked to Hamas.[56

    narciso (87e966)

  24. One problem with Gingrich is that he claims Romney is too “timid” to take the fight to Obama, while out of the other side of his well-fed mouth he whines about Romney’s unfair attacks against him.

    Man up, Newt. This year will be brutal.

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  25. “… an unfair attack instigated echoed by Bush Sr against Michael Dukakis, after initially being raised by Al Gore in the NY Dem Primary…”

    Cleaned that up for you, Mark.

    AD-RtR/OS! (de46f9)

  26. Comment by happyfeet — 1/5/2012 @ 8:09 am

    Except, like Obama’s academic history, Kerry’s military record is shrouded by his refusal to release it for examination, contrary to the “promises” he made in the ’04 campaign.

    AD-RtR/OS! (de46f9)

  27. 24. And re: the Baier interview, whats good for the goose..

    27. And he has the hat retrieved from Cambodia backwaters to this day.

    gary gulrud (1de2db)

  28. you’re right Mr. AD I just wanted to lick the icing off

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  29. 27-more…
    And, do we really want to re-fight the “Chicken Hawk” war
    (which has been brought up this cycle by that great defender of America – Ron Paul)
    after we had a SecDef/Veep who also availed himself of the Selective Service rules to (in his case legally) avoid military service,
    unlike a certain President who lied
    (and in the performance of that lie, actually told the truth about his opinion of those that defend us)
    to avoid an appearance before his Selective Service Board?

    AD-RtR/OS! (de46f9)

  30. Newt’s term was a blunder, not quite rising to Perry’s “heartless” or Romany’s mandate “conservative”, but none of these guys(Santorum, Romany, Gingrich) served and none are getting the military en masse like McLame.

    gary gulrud (1de2db)

  31. 29- Sometimes it is better to remain silent…
    it gives you the ability to concentrate your energies on a later, meaningful, attack.

    AD-RtR/OS! (de46f9)

  32. You know how it works, 1992, and 1996, a military background was considered a sign of backward thinking, in 2000 and 2004, indespensible, and in 2008, well indications of insanity.

    narciso (87e966)

  33. Eric Boehlert has a clown car uterus.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  34. And why do the left insist when we want the President to stop acting like a Dictator we have our hands greased?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  35. Yeah, gary, I can see the Vets (and Active-Duty) just lining up to re-elect Barack Obama, he who has done so much for them.
    BTW, my morning news alert says that The Lightworker is going to appear across the river today at the Pentagon to announce the largest cutbacks in DoD history,
    this in the face of the Islamist threat, and the expansionary journey that China has embarked upon in the South China Sea and environs.

    “We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, with so little, for so long, we are now qualified to do anything, with nothing.” Dec 13, 1881- Konstantin Josef Jireček

    AD-RtR/OS! (de46f9)

  36. Newt is a very intelligent man, but he needs to learn discipline in what he says.
    This Swiftboating thing is one example.

    My own beautiful Dem husband finds Newt very interesting, but said he has trouble knowing which things Newt says are policy ideas, and which things are just ideas he’s noodling about.

    He needs to sharpen up on that. Or he doesn’t need to, actually. He should.

    MayBee (081489)

  37. He may indeed have a clown car uterus, but I bet he loves spicy Thai flapjacks and pig’s lips and anuses on a bun!

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  38. How’s that “mixed marriage” thing workin’ for ya, MayBee?

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  39. Eric Boehlert causes Gorebull Warming.

    Why do the luddite left insist Coal and Hydropower dams contribute to Gorebull Warming?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  40. “Yeah, gary, I can see the Vets (and Active-Duty) just lining up to re-elect Barack Obama”

    AD – Oh no, Nor Luap said he had a lock on the Active Duty vote. What happened?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  41. Insulting Maybee’s marriage?

    So totally you.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  42. It’s really wonderful. Thanks for asking!

    MayBee (081489)

  43. Nor Luap needs a lock on his lips so that he’ll stop leaking brain cells (though at this point it might be too late).

    AD-RtR/OS! (de46f9)

  44. 36, 41. Did I need to couch the comment as regarding the nomination fight?

    Nor Laup served but Fort Hood’s vote can’t be taken for granted.

    gary gulrud (1de2db)

  45. Santorum needs additional miracles in NH and MI to become relevant.

    NV would not seem to be up for grabs.

    OR is beyond my ken.

    gary gulrud (1de2db)

  46. It was bad politics for Newt to explain his point this way.

    He was frustrated that after running such a presidential campaign, Romney blasted him with a ton of negative crap.

    That is just another piece of data about Romney’s character, as if we needed it.

    Anyway, I think Newt was not really saying much about the swift boaters, and was comparing the personal attacks on Newt to personal attacks on Kerry.

    the fact is that many of the personal attacks on Newt were accurate. That’s why he’s harder to defend. But they are personal attacks, just like the swift boaters had against Kerry in their accurate points about why Kerry lacks the character to be president.

    So I think Newt didn’t explain his point well enough and people who are defensive of the swift boaters are reading too much into what he’s saying.

    Newt is flawed, for sure, but he’s a leader who is the most conservative candidate who can win until Perry proves otherwise (And let’s be honest… that’s wishful thinking).

    It’s a shame that Romney yet again has taken the low road, and I understand why Newt would react this way. He just needs to do so more carefully. A lot of people found it very irritating the ‘swift boat’ became a pejorative term for no good reason, and Newt should have known this isn’t the best way to explain that Romney is yet again being what Romney is.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  47. It’s really wonderful. Thanks for asking!

    Comment by MayBee

    LOL… it was that “my own beautiful Dem” that gave me the first clue. Wonderful to hear it!

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  48. “He was frustrated that after running such a presidential campaign, Romney blasted him with a ton of negative crap.

    That is just another piece of data about Romney’s character, as if we needed it.”

    Dustin – So your position is that Perry’s early personal attacks on Romney were negative datapoints about Perry’s character, right, just to be consistent with your logic, right?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  49. Sigh. Did Mr. Feet just praise John Kerry for his bravery in the military as a way to slam Mitt Romney.

    Good thing he isn’t all “cowardly” like McCain, huh?

    This is all silly political posturing and partisan chest thumping. The goal is to get this gang out of the Oval Office.

    Eyes on the Prize, folks.

    As for Boehlert, Patterico, I hope that this makes you laugh. I recommend you watch this if ever you have to read a Boehlert essay in the future:

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/media-matters-isnt-quite-sure-how-to-take-red-eyes-robot-attack/

    Simon Jester (71fe7e)

  50. where did I praise John Kerry for bravery I would never do that

    never never never

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  51. I guess “illustrious” is damned by faint praise, dude. Look, say what you wish, be as offensive and odd as you wish. You are a popular fellow.

    Please don’t give us Four Worse Years because you want to sound clever or be a postmodern hepcat. Please make sure you temper your rightward criticism with more criticism of the Left, that they are worse.

    Because the repetitive drumbeat just encourages people to sit out the election, I fear.

    But hey, I’m just a whiny little bitch who wants to control what everyone says. What do I know.

    Simon Jester (71fe7e)

  52. Kerry’s service is only illustrious set against draft dodgers like Romney and Newty Newt I think

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  53. which is what I said

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  54. Sigh. “Draft dodger,” huh?

    Simon Jester (71fe7e)

  55. Clinton was a “draft dodger”, not Newt nor Romney – who both got lawful deferrments.

    Watch your tongue (and this is from someone who was classified IIRC 4A during the Viet-era – that’s the classification they give you when you’re in the Inactive Reserve after mustering-out from Active Duty, which is changed to 5A after 6-years of Active/Inactive Duty).

    AD-RtR/OS! (de46f9)

  56. I think this is an example of why some of us are not so enthusiastic about Newt. He is bright, witty, quick… and sometimes too quick for the wisdom center of the brain to appropriately monitor what comes out of the mouth, and the conviction center isn’t so firmly entrenched to do over-ride, either.

    Yes, “swift-boating” has two different meanings depending on who is using it. (Hey Bro. Bradly, could this be the only word that is its own antonym!?!?) I don’t think Newt was using the term as a precise term, but as a momentary poor choice of words. Though you could be right, maybe he does use “swifboating” in the Dem sense of the word.

    I understand from a limited perspective Boehlert’s desire to essentially pounce on a supposed “Freudian slip” (or whatever you want to call it), since political discussion is well know for hiding truth…at least as used by some.
    BUT, a discussion or debate in good faith would recognize a slip of the tongue by one person for what it is, not evidence of a “vast right wing conspiracy”.

    BTW, I hear that Obama is pushing the envelope in adventures in pompous presidency (for lack of a better term) even further by doing “recess appointments” when Congress isn’t in recess.

    Of course, this reminds me to go back to the original point. Tell me, prior to 2003 (or so), in what alternative universe would you have expected John Kerry to present himself as a proud Vietnam vet? Even Lewis Carroll would have had a hard time selling a book with that as a subplot.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  57. The word swiftboated was used by a reporter. Gingrich responded that he’s being Romneyboated.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/01/gingrich-i-was-romney-boated/

    When asked if he feels “swift boated,” a reference to the negative ads that partially derailed John Kerry’s presidential bid in 2004, Gingrich responded, “No, I feel ‘Romney-boated.'”

    Now a better or more careful person maybe than Gingrich would have avoided giving any kind of endorsement to the term “Swift-boating”

    John Kerry was not “swift-boated” the way the term is used by Democrats.

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  58. Remember, to a Leftist, having someone tell the truth about you is being “negative”.

    Romney’s Super-PAC was being, shall we say, less than truthful in what they said about Newt in those ads (a lie by omission is just as much as a lie by commission, just more subtle).

    AD-RtR/OS! (de46f9)

  59. Prior to 2003 (or so) the only thing Kerry would have wanted to be known for as “illustrious” concerning Vietnam was working with the N. Vietnamese delegation in Paris, being prominent in anti-war protests in the US, and writing “Winter Soldier“.

    There is something to be said for a person who can be an objective critic of a war they are nobly serving in, but then there are people who like to change colors like a chameleon when beneficial. I do not believe JFK(erry) is the former.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  60. i don’t understand all of the terminology

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  61. Romney didn’t serve, which puts him ahead of Kerry in my book, as Kerry betrayed his brothers in arms.

    I do like veterans for president, but I guess that’s not as important as it used to be.

    And I agree with MD’s concern about Newt’s loose tongue.

    However, I also have concerns about folks who have too silver a tongue.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  62. Newt Gingrich Reporting For Duty

    It’s just another unfortunate incident of Newt’s tendency to open his mouth and think later.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  63. Kerry didn’t even have the stones to throw his own medal over the White House walls as a means of protest, MD. He used someone else’s.

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  64. Beldar has similar thoughts.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  65. The Vietnam era version of Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary (1968) simply defined draft dodger as “one who avoids military service” regardless how it was done.

    it seems like the definition’s been considerably softened over the years

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  66. That was an excellent post by Beldar, DRJ. Thanks.

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  67. feets, this is the proposed entry in the New Revised Better Than Standard Version of The Dictionary That Counts:
    swift-boat– (-ed,-ing): verb, origin US English 2004; 1) To falsely portray a political candidate’s background (liberal colloquialism), 2) To lie, libel, slander a political candidate (liberal colloquialism), 3) to tell the truth, especially when done by first-hand historical narrative to clarify misrepresentation by lying liars (standard usage).

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  68. newt should ask himself
    “can I silence loose cannon
    of a mouth I have?”

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  69. I think it’s very likely at least one of Kerry’s purple heart owies was self-inflicted

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  70. Triumph of the Will
    to tame the rotund motor-mouth
    smartest man in room?

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  71. Colonel,
    If Kerry was able to throw someone else’s medals over the White House fence, at least that shows how much more qualified he is than President Obama.
    Truth can be painful. President G.W. Bush will probably have the best “first pitch” in history, unless the Dems find a way to scrub the internet clean of disagreeable YouTube posts…

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  72. Kerry caught sliver
    in his hind parts from boat’s bench
    instant Purple Heart

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  73. Obama’s pitch seared
    in the nation’s memory
    threw like half-a-fag

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  74. “perfectly fine to adopt a media-herd-approved shorthand term”

    fine, I don’t know. But you can’t undo it. It’s what the phrase means now. Sort of like the word abortion used to mean something else. I can tell you that til the end of time and your gut will still jump to the meaning it has acquired.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  75. I agree with you about the technical impropriety of implying the swift boat crew detractors of Kerry were anything but correct about Kerry, and nothing but concerned about his low character and unreliability and anger at his false feathers – or in any way lying or exaggerating for a political hit.

    At the same time everyone knew exactly what Newt meant.
    He shouldn’t have said it. But he was understood.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  76. Or, as we used to say back when Ronnie way Prez:

    I’ll stop telling the truth about you when you stop lying about me.

    AD-RtR/OS! (de46f9)

  77. …Ronnie WAS Prez…

    AD-RtR/OS! (de46f9)

  78. Exactly, Sarah. No one (worth taking seriously) thinks Newt was defending Kerry or criticizing the Swift Boaters. His gaffe is extremely minor.

    Also, O’Neill kinda jumped the shark in his reaction, IMO.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  79. Comment by MD in Philly — 1/5/2012 @ 10:35 am

    Tell me, prior to 2003 (or so), in what alternative universe would you have expected John Kerry to present himself as a proud Vietnam vet? Even Lewis Carroll would have had a hard time selling a book with that as a subplot.

    The short answer is: In the kind of universe in which Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were elected President.

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  80. The long answer is:

    I think it goes back to that this was originally actually Kerry’s intention in going to Vietnam. So he was really going back to his first idea.

    He wanted to present himself as a “war hero” and a “veteran” like so many politicians had done twenty years before 1966. The only thing is he found Massachusetts had completely bought into North Vietnamese propaganda, so he joined Vietnam Veterans against the War and endorsed typical lies.

    In 2003/4 John Kerry was counting on the fact that more than 30 years had passed since his Congressional testimony and a whole new generation had grown up, and that lies were not really pursued by the media.

    The Swift Boat veterans originally got together to talk about his April 23, 1971 U.S. Senate Foreign relations testimony which you can hear here http://www.democracynow.org/2004/2/20/john_kerry_then_hear_kerrys_historic and other things he said, but as they talked to each other they discovered that the stories attached to his medals (which he’s pretended to throw away at one point) did not jibe with reality and someone that became the focus. Some of that was so at odds with the truth they just dropped what they were going to say! Or so it would appear.

    Now the truth was actually a lot of medals were awarded at that time where he citations did not conform to reality but Kerry in some cases had been responsible for the original information.

    His campaign had some kind of defenses and most of this detail did not get repeated too much. His campaign basically claimed it was all untrue, obviously untrue, etc.

    The worst and most obvious lie was about Cambodia.

    Beside the issue of the medals, Kerry had also claimed for years to have been in Cambodia. The only problem was, that was an anachronism. He seems to have started saying that around the time the movie “Apocalypse Now” http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/ came out in 1979 – it has been traced back to about that time – and he wanted people to think: that’s me. He wanted people to identify him with the main character in that movie. That Martin Sheen was playing John Kerry.

    Here is what a Wikipedia article says about this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry_military_service_controversy

    It tries to be neutral. You can judge for yourself.

    Cambodia mission

    One chapter of SBVT’s Unfit for Command questions Kerry’s repeated statement that he was in Cambodia during Christmas, 1968.[39]

    For example, on March 27, 1986, in arguing against United States aid to the Nicaraguan Contras, Kerry made a speech to the Senate that, among other things, touched on the Vietnam war:

    “ Mr. President, how quickly do we forget? How quickly do we forget? No one wanted to widen the war in Vietnam, We heard that, Let me remind you of what we said during that period of time.

    [Kerry then set forth more than a dozen statements of American leaders with respect to the Vietnam war. He concluded the summary with the following:]

    Finally, President Nixon, 1970. “In cooperation with the armed forces of South Vietnam, attacks are being launched this week to clear out major enemy sanctuaries on the Cambodian-Vietnam border.”

    Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia.

    I have that memory which is seared-seared-in me, that says to me, before we send another generation into harm’s way we have a responsibility in the U.S. Senate to go the last step, to make the best effort possible in order to avoid that kind of conflict. Mr. President, good intentions are not enough to keep us out of harm’s way. ”

    [In the year 2004, some people really went at John Kerry for having said in 1986 that something that couldn’t possibly have happened the way he said it did, and that now he couldn’t seem to remember or give the date and the details of, was “seared in his memory” – SF]

    According to the Boston Globe biography of Kerry, he later recalled that after the Christmas Eve incident, he “began to develop a deep mistrust of U.S. government pronouncements….”[61]

    In a 1979 article in the Boston Herald, Kerry wrote of being shot at five miles over the Cambodian border on Christmas Eve 1968, stating,

    “ The absurdity of almost being killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real. ”

    At the time, President Lyndon Johnson had denied overt military incursions across the Cambodian border, while covert MACV-SOG Special reconnaissance operations were active and ongoing. Richard Nixon was actually president-elect in December 1968, and he had not yet issued his own denial.

    Kerry did not claim to have been sent on a covert mission to Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968.

    [That is, he didn’t actually claim at any time that the movie Apocalypse Now was a story about his life – but he very probably wanted people in Massachusetts in 1979 to think so!! – SF]

    Rather, he believed at the time he had crossed the border while on a patrol near the border, during which the boats were ambushed and later came under friendly fire from South Vietnamese soldiers.[39][61]

    No official documentation of any accidental or other incursion by either of Kerry’s boats has been discovered. In addition, none of Kerry’s crewmates have confirmed ever being sent to Cambodia. One of Kerry’s crewmen, SBVT member Steven Gardner,[62] asserted that it was physically impossible to cross the Cambodian border, as it was blocked and patrolled by PBRs (a type of patrol boat);[63] however, Kerry’s boat was evidently patrolling with PBRs during the mission in question.[64] Some crewmembers have, moreover, stated that they may at some point have entered Cambodia without knowing it.

    James Wasser, who was on PCF-44 on that December mission, while saying that he believed they were “very, very close” to Cambodia, did not recall actually crossing over; he also stated that it was very hard to tell their exact position in the border area. Kerry’s own journal entry on this, written the night of the mission, does not specifically say they entered Cambodia. However, it does state that PCF-44 was somewhere “toward Cambodia” to provide cover for two smaller patrol boats, and in sarcasm, that he considered messaging Christmas greetings to his commanders “from the most inland Market Time unit” and that a court martial for the incident “would make sense”[64] In addition, George Elliott noted in Kerry’s fitness report that he had been in an ambush during the 24 hour Christmas truce, which began on Christmas Eve.[65]

    Michael Meehan, a spokesman for the Kerry campaign, responded to SBVT’s charges with a statement that Kerry was referring to a period when Nixon had been president-elect and before he was inaugurated. Meehan went on to state that Kerry had been “deep in enemy waters” between Vietnam and Cambodia and that his boat came under fire at the Cambodian border. Meehan also said that Kerry did covertly cross over into Cambodia to drop off special operations forces on a later occasion, but that there was no paperwork for such missions and he could not supply dates.[66]

    Based on examination of Kerry’s journals and logbook, historian Douglas Brinkley placed the covert missions soon after Christmas. In an interview with the London Daily Telegraph, Brinkley stated that Kerry had gone into Cambodian waters three or four times in January and February 1969 on clandestine missions, dropping off U.S. Seals, Green Berets, and CIA operatives. Brinkley added:

    “ He was a ferry master, a drop-off guy, but it was dangerous as hell. Kerry carries a hat he was given by one CIA operative. In a part of his journals which I didn’t use he writes about discussions with CIA guys he was dropping off.[67][68] ”

    In an interview with Tim Russert on “Meet the Press,” Kerry corrected his 1979 statement about being “five miles across the border” on Christmas Eve, but reiterated that he was on a patrol at the border at that date and had been sent on a covert mission at a later date.[69]

    In the book, O’Neill argued that a Swift boat commander would have been “seriously disciplined or court-martialed” for crossing the Cambodian border. Critics point out the inconsistency between this description and O’Neill’s own claims documented in a conversation with President Nixon in 1971:

    “ O’Neill: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.

    Nixon : In a Swift boat?

    O’Neill: Yes, sir.[70]

    [note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  81. Comment by Dustin — 1/5/2012 @ 9:23 am

    A lot of people found it very irritating the ‘swift boat’ became a pejorative term for no good reason, and Newt should have known this isn’t the best way to explain that Romney is yet again being what Romney is.

    What happened was that he was asked by a reporter if he feels “swift boated,” and he replied “No, I feel ‘Romney-boated.'”

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  82. Comment by Colonel Haiku — 1/5/2012 @ 10:52 am

    Kerry didn’t even have the stones to throw his own medal over the White House walls as a means of protest, MD. He used someone else’s.

    He thought they might be of some use to him later.

    He was thinking long term.

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  83. that is a very important observation Mr. Finkelman, if one is to place Mr. Newt’s remarks in their proper context

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  84. I think Obama needs congressional approval to get his men and women into power but according to the left I got my hand greased.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  85. Oh gee. Maybe everyone didn’t understand him.This has to be a joke, right?

    SarahW (b0e533)

  86. Comment by Mark — 1/5/2012 @ 8:06 am

    he’d never have pulled a Jimmy-Carter stunt in 1985 and (based on Reagan’s own comment that it was due to “compassion”) secretly negotiated with hostage-taking Iran.

    Supposedly he was negotiating with other people in Iran – basically secret opponents of Ayatollah Khomeini – who had influence over the hostage takers in Lebanon, or who could influence people who did – and sending a small amount of arms through them would enhance their standing.

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  87. Note: 83 has to be understood as a reply to 81, not 82.

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  88. I think Newt’s taking a bad rap on this. He was asked if he felt like he was being “swift boated” and he said no. He said he was being “Romney Boated”. Clearly he’s making a distinction between what was said about Kerry and what was being said about himself. To say that he took the liberal media’s premise and went with it is patently false. The problem with Newt is that he let Romney’s hypocrisy get under his skin. It’s amazing how Romney can sit there and play the “I’m more conservative than you” game with a straight face.

    Henry Gomez (eff241)

  89. Actually, Sammy, I can see Carter or Clinton elected President long, long, long before I can see Kerry as a proud Vitenam vet. Carter and Clinton had both been governors and did not get into a US office by claiming state governments were corrupt baby killers, well baby killers ok, but the right kind of baby killers.

    John Kerry as a proud Vietnam era vet was about as believable prior to 2003 to as Madonna becoming a spokesperson for Concerned Women for America and announcing it at halftime of the Super Bowl (if that actually happens, I will sit in the bottom of a closed closet for a least 1/2 hour contemplating something, I’ll decide just what at the time, if necessary).

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  90. Thanks, Henry. I think you have the best grasp on what happened.

    This is how the media gets us.

    Who is falling for the media’s spin on things here?

    Is it Newt, for saying he’s not being swiftboated, and distinguishing them from Romney’s attacks, or is it folks who think Newt actually went out of his way to reference them?

    Dustin (cb3719)

  91. Swift-boating is a homophobic slur?

    Too bad Obama couldn’t kill Obama in 2009……………………..but he had more important things to do.

    Thanks Panetta.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  92. What happened was that he was asked by a reporter if he feels “swift boated,” and he replied “No, I feel ‘Romney-boated.’”

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman

    Thanks. You’re 100% right, and I think even in my defense of Newt I was unfair to him. Mea Culpa.

    But my point was that he was focusing on what Romney was doing. The press, of course being liberal and thus biased in Mitt’s favor, tried to talk about the swift boaters, and Newt tried to redirect them back to ‘this is romney I am talking about’. I guess it could have been a trap. If so, Newt handled it imperfectly.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  93. Actually, the original discussion was about how the L used Newt’s comment to verify their claim that discrediting Kerry with the Swift-boat vets was a vast R wing conspiracy…

    Yes, never trust the media until it has been filtered through conservative fact-checkers
    and
    Newt is not happy with Romney, and will let it show. Superpac for Romney may regret their relentless attack on newt.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  94. 81, 83, 92. The good news is the BLS says the ‘seasonally adjusted’ unemployment rate declined and beat the street, while upping the prior week estimation 6000.

    Of course the unadjusted jobs losses rose 21,000 but we gots to make the magic 8% number by November.

    So what are white lies among ‘friends’ on the Right. We’re screwed don’t ya know?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  95. Yes thanks Henry. He took those words and spun them right around in the reporter’s face. Implicit is a rejection of the reporter’s label, and that makes all the difference. “There’s no such thing as swiftboating; if we’re going to be alleging aisle-tripping by anyone along the lines of what you, mr lame reporter, ok then were going to have to call it Romney boating to get at what just happened.”

    Only Newt was a lot shorter. He does tend to get the meta in there with some pith.

    sarahW (b0e533)

  96. SarahW- what happened to AnaMarie Cox?
    I followed your link and found this gem, too (talking about her cat):

    @LizMair He is totally adorbs, y? He’s also special-needs: brain damage that makes it hard for him to balance or to leap v high. Very GOP 🙂

    MayBee (081489)

  97. Yeah, Gary. I think some might be underestimating Obama’s chances.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  98. oops I erased some important words.

    sarahW (b0e533)

  99. Maybee I think she works for GQ now and is allergic to lentils. That’s about it.

    sarahW (b0e533)

  100. 97. He’s absolutely begging to be impeached. He wants all out rioting in the streets without the credible buildup.

    Things just aren’t going according to his timetable.

    Military can detain citizens for any reason, like possessing physical gold, calling him Franklin Marshall Davis’ bastard, eating trans fats, you name the offense.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  101. I’ll ignore your childish “grow up” insult and simply take issue with your implicit argument that it’s perfectly fine to adopt a media-herd-approved shorthand term for dishonesty that is based itself on a lie. When a thoughtful conservative wants to complain about being defamed he ought not reach immediately for the term [opponent]-boated. That plays right into the hands of the Boehlerts of the world.

    I agree with you, but how do you feel about terms like “liberal” (to mean socialist) or “McCarthyite”, or — as Mark points out — “Willie Horton”? Or “southern strategy”? Sometimes one uses a word without considering its origin, or even being aware of it. How many people use the term “prodigal son” and think it means “returning” or “repentant”?

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  102. $6 Trillion in sovereign debt gets rolled over this year as governments are heavily short term. Europe has to do a trillion euros by the end of March.

    Well they just postponed Greece’s bailout ’til last thing probably to help rates for everyone else.

    France however yesterday began the march upward 50 basis pts failing to sell out. Dead Meat had better have redundant counter measures aboard.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  103. Two things people always forget about John Kerry – he got several student deferments and when those ran out, joined the Naval Reserve at a time when it was considered the least likely group to be sent to Vietnam.

    Also when he returned from Vietnam (by asking to be sent him with his three powderpuff Purple Hearts, he wasn’t sent home) he had a remaining obligation to stay in the Reserves. The public record is very clear that he never did so but spent his time in the antiwar movement. Which is exactly the kind of thing that Dan Rather was claiming Dubya had done in the fake document scandal.

    Kaisersoze (298188)

  104. Kaiser, it is remarkable how the left’s most organized smears often seem to actually be very clever efforts to cloud something a prominent democrat did.

    I suspect the rathergate stuff was, in fact, partly due to Kerry’s BS.

    Anyway, Romney was on a religious mission instead of serving in the military, so it’s hard to hold that against him. I mean, I don’t really give a crap about it either way, but if you’re not going to serve in war, at least do something, right?

    Since I have a low opinion of Romney as a man (for his amazingly shameless flip flops) I can easily think worse of his leaving the country during the draft, but I don’t philosophically think drafts are justifiable anyway.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  105. Brazilians eat lentils for good luck at the new year the same way Texas people eat black eyed peas!

    It truly is a small world after all.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  106. Comment by MD in Philly — 1/5/2012 @ 11:52 am

    Actually, Sammy, I can see Carter or Clinton elected President long, long, long before I can see Kerry as a proud Vitenam vet. Carter and Clinton had both been governors and did not get into a US office by claiming state governments were corrupt baby killers, well baby killers ok, but the right kind of baby killers.

    Jimmy Carter got elected president by convincing the media (falsely) that he was a serious candidate. He had campaigned for a whole year in Iowa, and what they didn’t realize is how few people knew some of the big names. He had greater name recognition in Iowa than Senator Henry M. (Scoop) Jackson but he argued that people wanted a fresh face and that’s why he got his support.

    Bill Clinton claimed he had supported the Gulf War when actually he had opposed it.

    John Kerry as a proud Vietnam era vet was about as believable prior to 2003

    Yes, this is one of the more incredible things although not quite as incredible as Bill Clinton going around in 1991 citing as his chief selling point that he, unlike other Democrats had supported the Gulf War. Who could check?

    [about as believeable as] Madonna becoming a spokesperson for Concerned Women for America and announcing it at halftime of the Super Bowl (if that actually happens, I will sit in the bottom of a closed closet for a least 1/2 hour contemplating something, I’ll decide just what at the time, if necessary).

    That reminds me. Something like this happened.

    Donna Rice (Gary Hart’s 1987 paramour) became an anti-online pornography activist.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enough_Is_Enough_%28organization%29

    Enough Is Enough was founded in 1992 as part of the U.S. anti-pornography movement, but shifted its focus in 1994 to confront online pornography, child pornography, child stalking, and sexual predation.[2][3]

    The organization’s co-founder and first president was Dee Jepsen, wife of former U.S. Senator from Iowa Roger Jepsen.[4] Other co-founders were Sarah Blanken and Monique Nelson.[5] Its president and chair since 2002 has been Donna Rice Hughes, who first joined the group in 1994 and was vice president of marketing and public relations.[6][3] As Donna Rice, she had received considerable attention as the “other woman” in the Gary Hart Monkey Business affair during the previous decade.[4][7] In her new role as an activist, she neither hid nor promoted her former fame,[4] but the activity helped her overcome her sexually stigmatized past.[8] Future Delaware political candidate Christine O’Donnell worked for the group for a while starting in 1993.[9]

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  107. When asked if he feels “swift boated,” a reference to the negative ads that partially derailed John Kerry’s presidential bid in 2004, Gingrich responded, “No, I feel ‘Romney-boated.’”

    Now that context makes a big difference. Thank you, Sammy.

    Now a better or more careful person maybe than Gingrich would have avoided giving any kind of endorsement to the term “Swift-boating”

    Perhaps he could have said, if he’d thought of it, “No, the swift boat veterans were telling the truth; what I feel is Romney-boated”.

    Then again, perhaps he was just trying to avoid appearing to blame Jane Swift.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  108. Three things that should never go together:
    John Kerry -> military record -> illustrious

    Icy (e6ad7f)

  109. I think it’s very likely at least one of Kerry’s purple heart owies was self-inflicted

    That’s not in itself relevant. IIRC, Dole’s injury was also self-inflicted. Self-inflicted injury, like friendly fire, is part of war, and any injury sustained in combat qualifies for a Purple Heart. The point about at least one of Kerry’s injuries is that it was not sustained in combat; the firefight was over, he had already shot the enemy sniper (in the back, not that that matters for this purpose), and then he carelessly injured himself while blowing up the rice bin or whatever it was. At least this is how I recall the story that emerged.

    There was also the injury that may or may not have been sustained in combat, but which required no more than a band-aid, and yet he insisted on a Purple Heart so he could collect his three and get out of there.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  110. I mean Osama.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  111. Patterico and DRJ, thank you, as always, for the links.

    Boehlert’s new post doesn’t mention me by name, but links the same post of mine from 2004 that Patterico linked and discussed (then and now). Another leftie, Steve Benen, has linked Boehlert and endorsed Bohlert’s observation about Gingrich’s supposed concession.

    Patterico is correct that Boehlert’s new post is an excellent — and entirely foreseeable — example of why conservative candidates should avoid accepting verbal formulations fed to them by reporters.

    The gist of the reporter’s question was, “Do you feel like you’re being attacked unfairly?” Because the reporter is a leftie, he believes John Kerry was attacked unfairly by the SwiftVets, and he used the term “Swift-Boated” as a synonym for “unfair attack.”

    Respectfully, sarahW (#95 — 1/5/2012 @ 12:13 pm): Mr. Gingrich should have used this occasion to “spin [the reporter’s] words right around in the reporter’s face.” He did not do that. He did not reject or disagree with the reporter’s allusion at all. Instead, he built upon it by using it as the premise for his own new coinage, “Romney-boated.” That coinage makes no sense at all in the context unless, indeed, you have accepted as a premise that “Swift-Boating” was an unfair attack on John Kerry.

    It’s entirely fair to point out that this was but one conversation and that candidates can’t control what reporters say to them. Candidates can control what they say back to reporters, though, and candidates can refuse to accept false and misleading premises that are antithetical to the candidates’ views. Indeed, Mr. Gingrich has very dramatically done exactly that — challenged, exposed, rejected false premises in questions — on several occasions during the past several months’ debate. He did not do so here.

    If Mr. Gingrich were some rookie candidate instead of a former Speaker of the House and long-time congressman who’s been dealing with reporters longer than most of those reporters have been out of diapers, then he’d be easy to forgive for this blunder.

    Nor, to my knowledge, has Mr. Gingrich apologized. If he merely misspoke, he ought to have apologized by now.

    No, friends and neighbors, the reason Gingrich didn’t quibble with the reporter, and the reason he hasn’t apologized, is because he does have disdain for the Swift Vets. In 2004, when the issue was still red-hot, Gingrich was widely quoted (e.g., here by Ann Coulter) as saying that the SwiftVets were “the conservative movement’s answer to Michael Moore.”

    That’s despicable. I’m unaware of any apology for that slight on the SwiftVets’ honor, either.

    Although this is a small episode, it reveals a larger problem that is chronic to Mr. Gingrich, a problem that was very much part of his eventual forfeiture of the high position he’d earned: He is completely undisciplined, and he has no clutch between his brain and mouth.

    This will make it much easier for Obama to beat him if Newt’s the GOP nominee. Obama cannot win if the election is a referendum on his own performance in office, so Obama needs an undisciplined GOP candidate who will give Obama ammunition from which to generate compelling distractions. McCain did that. I believe Gingrich has too, and would continue to do so if he became the GOP nominee.

    This is not a time to gamble on a loose cannon, and it is why I cannot support Mr. Gingrich even over other GOP candidates for whom I lack a great deal of enthusiasm. I will vote and campaign as happily as I can for any GOP nominee against Obama; but I very much hope that will not be Mr. Gingrich.

    Beldar (bd62f3)

  112. There was also the injury that may or may not have been sustained in combat, but which required no more than a band-aid, and yet he insisted on a Purple Heart so he could collect his three and get out of there.

    They really should make that into a movie. Sylvester Stallone could pull it off. Bimbo: First Boo Boo.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  113. No, friends and neighbors, the reason Gingrich didn’t quibble with the reporter, and the reason he hasn’t apologized, is because he does have disdain for the Swift Vets. In 2004, when the issue was still red-hot, Gingrich was widely quoted (e.g., here by Ann Coulter) as saying that the SwiftVets were “the conservative movement’s answer to Michael Moore.”

    Well that sucks.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  114. 111. “Undisciplined”. Lot of that going around.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  115. Per Kaiser, yes, I think there was talk/speculation that Kerry actually received his final discharge under Carter’s amnesty program.

    Sammy, I also remember Carter using his Navy nuclear submarine engineering cred as part of his CV to get elected. I was not suggesting that Carter or Clinton had a good CV for President (indeed, if not for Pirot, Clinton would not have won), just that their elections, IMHO, did not match the spectacle of what Kerry did, and way too close to having success with it.

    Yes, Dustin, we are frequently (how many times a day?) reminded of the lib/dem habit of projection, always attacking others for the bad they do themselves.

    Concerning Donna Rice, that is interesting, but I can see her transition mcu easier than Kerry’s or the thought of Madonna. Kerry was the antithesis of the proud Vietnam vet, as Madonna has had a long career of not being accused of self-effacing modesty and virtue in the public interest.
    Many, many people who have not been blameless throughout their lives in sexual behavior could easily draw a line far short of internet porn and be against it.
    Not that I’m trying to be argumentative, I just think the pr move that Kerry did, almost successfully, is of superlative stature in the annals of intellectual dishonesty and gentile-originated chutzpah.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  116. Just to let you know Snooki Obama went back in time and killed Houdini.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  117. Mr. Beldar, sir, thank you for contributing that bit of info about Mr. Gingrich’s view of the Swift-boat vets.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  118. Yeah, MD. Beldar kinda took the wind out of my sails with that one.

    Dammit, Newt. This isn’t the first time, either. Too bad Huntsman is a lost cause. At least his moaning about the GOP is tempered with a substantial background.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  119. then there will never be a time to gamble on a loose cannon I don’t think, cause if ever there were such a time, that time is now

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  120. feets, if you want to gamble on a loose cannon, any loose cannon, you may,

    but the rest of us will stand back, far back, and see what happens

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  121. this I do for my country

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  122. the rest of us will stand back, far back, and see what happens

    Comment by MD in Philly

    At least that’s how it feels, trying to accomplish the nearly impossible with the toolbox of Romney, Newt and Santorum.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  123. Like we needed another reason to send Obama packing. Now he’s gone full tilt on endangering our national security….

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/01/unreal-obama-to-share-us-missile-secrets-to-russia/

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  124. Colonel-
    So many things the rest of us would be put in jail for, he does with impunity. 🙁

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  125. Indeed, MD….

    “If you run naked, around a tree, at a speed of 185,999 miles per second, there is a distinct possibility of f**king yourself. Or, you can vote Obama in for a second term and obtain the exact same effect.”

    – Alfred E. Einstein

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  126. At this rate, he is going to so diminish the ability of the US to project strength around the globe, and so undercut the ability to economically recover anytime soon, he will have achieved in less than 4 years more dmage to US standing in the world than Imperial Japan, Nzi Germany, Soviet Russia, and Mao’s China combined. Quite an accomplishment, and I bet that is exactly what he thinks he wanted to do to help solve the injustices of the world. Who would have thunk it.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  127. No one worth taking seriously thinks Newt’s gaffe was not serious here, just another example of his ready, fire, aim style of behavior that has gotten him into serious trouble in the past. A lot of biased commentators apparently still feel otherwise.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  128. Quite an accomplishment, and I bet that is exactly what he thinks he wanted to do to help solve the injustices of the world. Who would have thunk it.

    Sadly, if history is any indicator, it’s going to lead to staggering injustice. Weakness is the most provocative thing in foreign policy.

    He’s accomplished miracles including lowering sea levels and making me willing to vote Romney.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  129. Keep all that in mind in November. Bad is far far preferable to horrid. Not-clever insulting nicknames or not. Me, I’m worried that lots of people will sit things out. Four Worse Years…..

    Simon Jester (71fe7e)

  130. 111. “Gingrich was widely quoted (e.g., here by Ann Coulter) as saying that the SwiftVets were “the conservative movement’s answer to Michael Moore.”

    Not to quibble Mr. Beldar, but Coulter was taking O’Reilly to task. The context, or lack of, does not make the sense explicit in which the Swiftboaters were an ‘answer’.

    Were they comparable in tenor, an exhaustive rebuttal, a political shlockumentary, what?

    No offense but I will withhold judgement until I see a bit more flesh to the allegations. No sale.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  131. From Neville Obama:
    “The tide of war is receding. But the question that this strategy answers is what kind of military will we need after the long wars of the last decade are over. And today, we’re moving forward, from a position of strength,” Obama said in the first visit by a U.S. president to the Pentagon briefing room.

    And:
    Charles Krauthammer notes President Obama’s latest accomplishment:
    I think this [recess appointment] is a lawless action by the president at the end of a long string of lawless actions. And it’s banana republic [style].
    The president is saying: “I won’t let Congress stop me.” But it’s in the Constitution that you have to have the Senate’s approval… He [the president] can only make a recess appointment if the Senate is in recess. It is not in recess.

    In fact, his own Justice Department argued last year before the Supreme Court that the Senate has to be out of session for three days. It has not been. And that appeal was based on a ruling of the Clinton Justice Department–three days.

    You can appoint anybody you want in a recess appointment. You can appoint anybody who has already been rejected by the Senate. You can appoint anybody you want as a way to make a purely cynical political point in election year in Ohio, as Obama is doing. But you can’t do it as a recess appointment if the Senate is not in recess.

    I submit, sadly, that they only thing that is keeping us from being a powerless banana republic is that we do not grow bananas.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  132. Not-clever insulting nicknames or not.

    Agreed.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  133. Comment by Dustin — 1/5/2012 @ 1:16 pm

    There was also the injury that may or may not have been sustained in combat, but which required no more than a band-aid, and yet he insisted on a Purple Heart so he could collect his three and get out of there.

    They really should make that into a movie. Sylvester Stallone could pull it off. Bimbo: First Boo Boo.

    In 1979, when the movie Apocalypse Now came out, John Kerry, without directly saying so, tried to make out that the movie was about him, and therefore that he was played by Martin Sheen.

    That’s when he started saying he had been in Cambodia. (He did not make claims like that before. It’s been traced only as far back as 1979)

    Here is a Wikipedia article about the controversy that tried to be neutral:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry_military_service_controversy

    The Cambodia claim is really the most obvious lie.

    After 1979 Kerry continued saying that he had been Cambodia and even used it in argument:

    Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia.

    I have that memory which is seared-seared-in me, that says to me, before we send another generation into harm’s way we have a responsibility in the U.S. Senate to go the last step, to make the best effort possible in order to avoid that kind of conflict. Mr. President, good intentions are not enough to keep us out of harm’s way.

    – Senator John Kerry on the Senate floor, March 27, 1986, arguing against aid [NB: military aid, not troops!] to the Nicaraguan contras.

    Now he has here about two or three anachronisms. Swift boats or any uniformed U.S. military in Cambodia in 1968, Nixon as president while it is still 1968, and before he could have said anything about U.S. troops being there, and the Khmer Rouge in existence when they weren’t formed until 1971 or maybe 1970.

    And yet he claimed this was seared into his memory in 1986. And whatever he tried to say in 2004, he couldn’t remember, and couldn’t give any exact date or details as o when and how he was in Cambodia (and knew it)

    [note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  134. What is the matter with cle er insulting nicknames?

    MD – just look at the positions that Hairy Reed and SanFranNan took on this. The Constitution apparently has a hidden “it is okay because Republicans are meanies” clause.

    JD (65d1c1)

  135. Michael Moore was known as someone making false claims.

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  136. I think Gingrich’s word play was too subtle for the press — on either side.

    Kerry. Spit.

    King 0. Sorry, mouth’s still dry.

    htom (412a17)

  137. Sammy – Michael Moore is known for being a fat @SS commie loving hate capitalism hypocritical lying liar what lies.

    JD (65d1c1)

  138. It could be that indeed, in 2004, and maybe even now, Newt Gingrich did not realize that the Swift Boat attacks were all on point. He was out of politics at that point – but still, you would hope he would keep himself informed on current events. And not trust the mainstream media, or people he talked to, so much.

    He may have a problem sometimes with due diligence or understanding the need for due diligence.

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  139. Recess appointments: All this happened because of the filibuster being used to stop Presidential appontments.

    Sammy Finkelman (b17872)

  140. clever insulting nicknames? SanFranNan? I prefer Granny Rictus McBotox

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  141. At this rate, he is going to so diminish the ability of the US to project strength around the globe, and so undercut the ability to economically recover anytime soon, he will have achieved in less than 4 years more dmage to US standing in the world than Imperial Japan, Nzi Germany, Soviet Russia, and Mao’s China combined. Quite an accomplishment, and I bet that is exactly what he thinks he wanted to do to help solve the injustices of the world. Who would have thunk it.

    Comment by MD in Philly

    Yes. Max Boot had an interesting post re: the significance of this election vis-a-vis this issue up at Commentary…

    http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/01/05/election-america-superpower/

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  142. Perhaps it is time, in the style of Martin Luther, to nail a copy of the Declaration of Independence to the doors of the Old Executive Office Building –
    and to enlist the Army of Homeless in DC, to pass out copies of “Common Sense” at the major intersections!

    [note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]

    AD-RtR/OS! (de46f9)

  143. It could be that indeed, in 2004, and maybe even now, Newt Gingrich did not realize that the Swift Boat attacks were all on point. H

    If so, that’s totally unacceptable. It’s means he’s not reading conservative blogs, for one. Like… any of them.

    No, I think this is more of a civility BS thing.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  144. “This is the old Newt. The unreliable, the unstable, the man who can’t contain himself.”

    – Charles Krauthammer

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  145. FWIW, although Milhouse’s recollection is very close:

    One of Kerry’s Purple Heart wounds was definitely self-inflected (accidentally) — the third one, sustained when he was ashore during a raid and was trying to scatter a Viet Cong food cache with a grenade. Someone had to use tweezers to pluck the resulting rice and dirt fragments out of Kerry’s butt. The first one, a minor arm wound sustained when Kerry was firing an M-79 grenade launcher from a skimmer during a night training mission, was probably also accidentally self-inflicted.

    Wounds caused by friendly fire, including accidental self-infliction, may nevertheless meet the very distinct and fairly rigid standards for awarding a Purple Heart, even if the wounds are minor (even with “no lesion” at all, just a bruise). But neither of these two wounds could be documented to have been caused by “enemy action,” and that is an absolute, non-discretionary requirement for a Purple Heart. There must be proof of the enemy action, not merely speculation or circumstances “consistent with” the possibility that there was enemy action.

    The second PH wound was a shin scratch, possibly from an RPG fragment, sustained while Kerry was aboard his Swift Boat as an engagement with enemy on the shore was winding down. No one, including Kerry, claimed to have seen the enemy that fired that RPG round. But the SwiftVets didn’t dispute the likelihood that this injury, and the resulting Purple Heart, was the direct (albeit trivial) result of enemy action.

    The SwiftVets certainly mocked Kerry for accepting the medals despite the triviality of all three wounds. Many of them despised him for taking the “three-PHs-and-out” ticket back stateside after only about six weeks of actual combat in a one-year billet. (Kerry had volunteered to spend his year in the SwiftVets when they were only doing coastal patrols, which weren’t very dangerous; thus would he emulate his hero, John F. Kennedy on the PT-109. While Kerry was training for the Swift Boats in California, however, they were re-tasked to patrol interior riverways, and suddenly the Swifties, like their comrades in the even smaller River Rat boats, were deliberately making themselves ambush targets so they could call in air and artillery strikes. It became very, very hazardous duty.) But they did not dispute that, qualified for them or not, he had indeed been awarded three PHs before bailing out on his men and getting a transfer to an admiral’s staff at the Pentagon.

    The SwiftVets also questioned whether Kerry had displayed the sort of bravery which ought to have been a predicate for both his Bronze and Silver Stars; they disagreed with the judgments reached by those who authorized the medals, and questioned whether those judgments had been rendered based upon accurate information, but they didn’t claim that Kerry was technically unqualified for those medals.

    The SwiftVets also questioned whether Kerry evaded proper channels in putting in for the PHs, and whether he exaggerated his own role in drafting or contributing to after-action reports. But there again they acknowledged that they were relying on circumstantial evidence, opportunity, motive, and inferences therefrom — rather than first-hand eye-witness proof or undisputed facts.

    Beldar (bd62f3)

  146. So many things the rest of us would be put in jail for, he does with impunity.

    Well, that’s in the nature of being president. There are things the president can do and the rest of us can’t. For instance, it’s impossible for the president to leak classified information, because if he does it it’s not leaking. And it’s impossible for the president to violate the Logan Act. When it comes to matters like these a president has to ask himself not whether what he proposes to do is legal, but whether it’s in America’s interest. If it is, then he has the inherent right to do it; if it isn’t then he has no right to do it, and he can be impeached for it. The problem with Obama is that he doesn’t have America’s interests at heart.

    Milhouse (d3fd53)

  147. (The timeline for Kerry’s medals is still very, very instructive: Two PHs, a Silver Star, and a Bronze Star, all earned in the space of four consecutive calendar weeks during the last of February and the first of March in 1969. (The first Purple Heart was from a training mission just weeks earlier, in December 1968.)

    Beldar (bd62f3)

  148. I think I am trying to communicate the same as you describe, Milhouse. Yes, the President cannot “leak” classified info, like I could, but he can get away with giving away secrets that harm the US, and the system of checks and balances is not currently up to inforcing consquences in impeachment.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  149. Yep. Our system just plain doesn’t seem equipped to handle electing a truly feckless president. It assumes we won’t do that, I guess.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  150. Actually it assumes a Congress that isn’t tied by party allegiance to either the President or his enemies, and is therefore willing and able to judge him fairly and dispassionately, and remove him if necessary.

    Milhouse (d3fd53)

  151. Krauthammer projecting again I see.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  152. For all that the framers of the constitution were smart people, they totally failed to predict the emergence of a party system, even though the UK already had one. That was not very smart of them.

    Milhouse (d3fd53)

  153. And
    i love how Eric Boehlert accuses us of being fascists.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  154. Uh I mean And I love how Eric Boehlert call us fascists.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  155. 143, 150. Carter speech writer who devotes his analysis to taking apart Obamba’s duplicity rendering him word smithereens can be delightful.

    Let him and Milhouse have at Maimonides and shut the door.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  156. Yeah, that is what pissed me off when Gingrich said that. it gave the left cover for their fantasy.

    Aaron Worthing (73a7ea)

  157. The interesting thing is, Admiral(Former Commodore)Ray Hoffman, was reacting as much to that Kerrey bio by Vistica, that painted the elements of the ‘Brown Water Navy, particularly Operation Warden, as a hopeless task, and the above officer, like Col. Kilgore, from Apocalypse Now,

    narciso (87e966)

  158. Comment by John Kerry —

    Still waiting for that unlimited Form 180. The final word should be the real records.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  159. It was Mondale he wrote speeches for, gulrud. You now have a little more than 5 hours to come up to “broken clock” standards. Are you up to the challenge?

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  160. The swift boaters spoke the truth now go blow your brains out John Fing Kerry.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  161. Too bad Jessie Ventura………who made sense on Gorebull Warming is still a lefty marxist nut.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  162. Which troll is posting under “John Kerry” ?

    JD (65d1c1)

  163. Liberals are neither Liberal and Progressives are not Progressives.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  164. IIRC, Washington warned against factions/parties, and it was said by another that our system of government was wholly inadequate for any but a virtuous people. In other words, the system will work as long as people prefer truth and responsibility to personal gain.

    Currently there are not enough people in Congress who prefer truth, responsibility, courage, and other such virtues to personal popularity and gain. I am not sure what more the Founders could have done, except promise to come back and haunt DC like Jacob Marley; but as Dickens had not yet written said story, that would have had little impact.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  165. Time to take a different tangent: you’re so focused on the antics of the chimpanzee in the room that you’re not noticing the elephant that’s behind it.

    I’d argue that Newt was very much on target with his reference to Swiftboating.

    The real gravamen of “Swiftboating” is not the accuracy of the charges. The essence of the phenomenon is this: it is an attack on a candidate by an [well funded]outside group–outside in the sense that the group is, at least officially, outside the control and not directly responsible to the candidate on whose behalf it was made.

    (I put “well funded” in brackets because I’m not sure if the original Swiftboat Veterans group actually was well funded.)

    And that aspect of the term certainly applies to Gingrich’s case.

    JBS (46fd97)

  166. JD–I don’t know who the troll is, but the quote he posted from McCain is apparently accurate.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128123,00.html

    JBS (46fd97)

  167. McCain isn’t exactly known for his unflinching bravery Mr. JBS

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  168. JBS- I was not questioning the veracity of the quote. I had no doubt that Maverick was trying to stay above the fray, in hopes that the MFM would continue to adore him, being an acceptable Republican.

    JD (392f2d)

  169. Newt’s a bright guy–a loose cannon–a good debater–and not likely to get my vote for President.

    One hopes this is in reference to the GOP race and not to the final November race vs President Downgrade, in the unlikely event that Newt gets the nom.

    Anyone who holds out and either votes for The Great Big 0 or even doesn’t vote in “protest” at a lame GOP candidate is a fool and an idiot.

    Worst case scenario, the SCotUS judges put forth by a GOP candidate are no worse than those of Obama. In all likelihood, they will be an order of magnitude better.

    Sans a defeat for Obama, he can leave a mark that will outlast his in-office incompetence for decades.</b

    THAT, ALONE, is more than ample reason for "anyone but Obama" as the first rule of sensible voting for 2012.

    Smock Puppet, Notor of the Incredibly Bleeding Obvious (aacc3d)

  170. “I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam.”–some has been RINO

    Yeah, how about his “service” in Paris when he claimed to have had a private get together with the communists we were still fighting, while he was an officer in the Naval Reserve?

    “ART. 104. AIDING THE ENEMY”

    “Any person who——”

    “(1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or”

    “(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;”

    “shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court—martial or military commission may direct.”

    Good thing for old John that he was on inactive reserve when he did that, otherwise, meeting with the enemy could have resulted in his being hanged by the neck, ’til he was dead, dead, dead.

    My own personal opinion is that John Kerry wouldn’t know what honor was if it jumped up and bit him on the ass.

    He was a scumbag then…and, he’s a scumbag now.

    And whatever the Swift Boat guys said about him…it ain’t bad enough.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  171. Dave Surls is spot-on with half his brain Thai’d behind his back!

    Colonel Haiku (db8df3)

  172. Look at what one of his associates in the Winter Soldier slander did;

    n a 1992 interview, Camil revealed for the first time that he had considered shooting “the most hardcore hawks” in Congress as an alternative to returning medals during the Dewey Canyon III demonstration in April 1971. In Camil’s words, “I didn’t think it was terrible at the time … I was serious. I felt that I spent two years killing women and children in their own fucking homes. These are the guys that fucking made the policy, and these were the guys that were responsible for it, and these were the guys that were voting to continue the fucking war when the public was against it. I felt that if we really believed in what we were doing, and if we were willing to put our lives on the line for the country over there, we should be willing to put our lives on the line for the country over here.”34 Six months later at a November 1971 meeting, after recruiting participants and describing his weapons training range, Camil proposed to the VVAW his idea about the assassination of the members of Congress who showed the most support for the war. The proposal was voted down.

    narciso (87e966)

  173. “But wait, everyone knows the Swifties peddled slanderous lies about John Kerry, right?”–some leftard

    The question is what could you possibly say that could damage the reputation of a loathsome bucket of scuzz like John Kerry?

    Even if what you said was totally false, it still isn’t going to damage his reputation.

    It’s like trying to damage the reputation of Adolf Hitler or Charlie Manson…can’t be done.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  174. Rachel Madcow credible jounralist?

    The day she tells Michael Moore and the left to pay their fair share……..I will take her seriously.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  175. Kerry was right there with Jane Fonda, Donald Sutherland and the rest of the scum.

    Colonel Haiku (c7d740)

  176. Silly Newt. He was Borked, not Swiftboated. Borking involves lies and distortions, while swiftboating involves uncovered truths.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  177. and in the spirit of honesty Mr. Kerry’s military record is more illustrious than Wall Street Romney’s and Newty Newt’s put together with amaretto cream cheese icing on top

    Comment by happyfeet

    Not unless you consider treason to be acceptable for presidential candidates. Two negatives only make a positive in very basic math, not human behavior.

    Mike K (5d1c51)

  178. _________________________________________________

    I think this [recess appointment] is a lawless action by the president at the end of a long string of lawless actions. And it’s banana republic [style].

    The phrase “banana republic” hit me the second President “Goddamn America” was elected back in November 2008—even before he would actually have the chance to illustrate the qualities associated with what’s found in a corrupt, effete, mediocre society. And we’re even more of a “banana republic” today than what I might have felt over 60 years ago, referring to the era when Franklin Roosevelt was pulling plenty of leftwing power plays of his own. The reason? FDR at least didn’t have the flat-out idiosyncrasies of a politician based in a tinhorn, third-worldish nation.

    For example, unlike Obama, I can’t imagine an FDR bowing before a fanatic like Jeremiah Wright, and bowing — quite literally — before foreign leaders, much less operating as a leftist within the context of a nation that had already experienced decades of political correctness run amok and other forms of modern-day liberalism. IOW, over 60 years ago the mid-point of the socio-political spectrum was to the right of where it is now. So when a president leans as far left in the 21st century as Obama does, that in the context of the country’s overall history is pretty damn liberal.

    Mark (411533)

  179. Now FDR, but Henry Wallace, with his guru, Nicholas
    Roerich, with the likes of Laurence Duggan and other such advisors, whose proteges included a young George McGovern, it’s an imperfect parallel.

    narciso (87e966)

  180. treason is bad but I just wanted to point out that neither Wall Street Romney or Mr. Newt ever served in uniform at all, which wouldn’t be here nor there except for their non-service was contemporaneous to that Vietnam thing, which makes it noteworthy, especially after all that largely distracty blah blah blah about Clinton, who anyone with a lick of sense already knew was of low character

    I don’t know what the takeaway is though Mr. K.

    It was just a comment is all.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  181. Oh Gad.
    Not another election cycle talking about who did or didn’t serve in Vietnam.

    MayBee (081489)

  182. I would not be at all surprised cause Obama was not of age and Hillary was a female.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  183. yes, we have no bananas

    from
    the wisdom of happyfeet, the lost posts
    or
    timing is everything, and this won’t make sense on sockpuppet friday

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  184. Biden didn’t serve in Vietnam, so maybe that will save us.

    MayBee (081489)

  185. let’s hope cause the distracty stuff what’s not economy-related

    you know who that helps

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  186. Don’t you remember Hillary said she volunteered for the Marines in 1975, after the war was over, that
    was also around the time Randi Rhodes joined the airforce, complaining there was nothing to do,

    narciso (87e966)

  187. Oh Gad.
    Not another election cycle talking about who did or didn’t serve in Vietnam.

    Comment by MayBee

    All I’m going to say is I do like presidents to have been in the military. It shows a special love for the country, but it also is informative and transformative beyond just the gold star for patriotism. I don’t think it’s necessary to take that to the next level where we look down on people who didn’t do it. It’s just a pretty substantial credential to have.

    It bothers me greatly that so few prominent national politicians seem to be veterans. That will change in a decade or two, for the better.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  188. “treason is bad’

    Can’t be all that bad, since Democrats and other lower forms of leftoid life engage in it so much.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  189. 159. Oh fine, plenty of people quote Carter:

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2644203/posts

    What is the difference? Mondale’s a shyster?

    The argument that Newt is dangerous, unreliable, etc., is GOP aparatchik horsesh*t.

    The GOP today is a failure, an abomination, a party to our coordinated destruction.

    Yes, there are far better choices but only antiEstablishment choices will receive unified TEA support.

    I just spent time with the nuclear family, five of whom are in Ryan’s district. Those and I all agree.

    You will lose.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  190. Rasmussen who weights their samples 35% Republicans and 33% Democrats have Romney and Obama in a dead heat at 42%.

    While I think 42% is accurate its a highwater mark for both. Ron Paul will be running, America Elect will have a candidate.

    Those are both going to target the party switching 10%.

    gary gulrud (1de2db)

  191. Yes, there are far better choices but only antiEstablishment choices will receive unified TEA support.

    Who are the anti-establishment candidates?

    Gerald A (9d78e8)

  192. 194. A fair question. Michele certainly was but was found wanting on a number of salient counts.

    People least connected to those currently feeding at the DC trough.

    We will know that Amerikkka is well begun toward restoration when DC resembles Detroit: 30,000 buildings razed or vacant.

    Tell me, who do you think among those running will work most diligently to this end?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  193. Outside Ron Paul, I don’t really know. Based on actual history maybe Huntsman. In any case Congress would have the last word, as I keep trying to point out.

    Gerald A (9d78e8)

  194. 196. So we should opt for the blythest reed blown in the wind as Executive?

    Cognitive dissonance.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  195. Seems like Huntsman is more consistent in his statements than most of the others. Of course he’s been under the radar.

    Gerald A (9d78e8)

  196. Vincent D’onofrio Huntsman has no chance of winning.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)


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