Patterico's Pontifications

10/29/2011

Is George Will right about Mitt Romney?

Filed under: 2012 Election — Karl @ 9:50 am

[Posted by Karl]

The answers are “yes,” quite a bit of “probably not” and a little bit of “maybe so.”

George Will’s blistering column about Mitt Romney’s candidacy can be split into two parts.  The first part explores a few of Romney’s mryiad flip-flops, straddles and waffles on various issues.  Is Will right about Romney being the “pretzel candidate”? Yes.  Indeed, on this point, Will did not even scratch the salt off the pretzel.

However, it’s the second, shorter conclusion of Will’s column that is getting the buzz in political circles:

Romney, supposedly the Republican most electable next November, is a recidivist reviser of his principles who is not only becoming less electable; he might damage GOP chances of capturing the Senate. Republican successes down the ticket will depend on the energies of the Tea Party and other conservatives, who will be deflated by a nominee whose blurry profile in caution communicates only calculated trimming.

Republicans may have found their Michael Dukakis, a technocratic Massachusetts governor who takes his bearings from “data” (although there is precious little to support Romney’s idea that in-state college tuition for children of illegal immigrants is a powerful magnet for such immigrants) and who believes elections should be about (in Dukakis’s words) “competence,” not “ideology.” But what would President Romney competently do when not pondering ethanol subsidies that he forthrightly says should stop sometime before “forever”? Has conservatism come so far, surmounting so many obstacles, to settle, at a moment of economic crisis, for this?

Although the future is full of possibilities, Will is probably wrong about most of this.  The general consensus among political scientists is that in presidential elections, the dominant factor is the economy, with candidate ideology being a distant second.  Indeed, the studies suggest that a moderate does 1% or 2% better. For those skeptical of academic consensus, note this finding holds for Democrats as well as Republicans.  The general rule seems to be holding up this year, as public opinion polling generally has shown Romney a few points more competitive than NotRomney against Obama throughout the campaign to date.  Of course, state level results are more important than national polling, but if the GOP nominates NotRomney, Team Obama will run the 2010 playbook by which Dems won Senate campaigns in key states by painting all those tea party energies as extremism (I question whether that strategy would be effective, but consider that Dems are likely to have more favorable turnout demographics in a presidential election than in a midterm).

Moreover, it is far from clear that having Romney at the top of the ticket would drag down Senate candidates.  Will provides no examples of where he thinks it might happen.  Notably, 2012 GOTV efforts will be conducted by groups affiliated with both Karl Rove and the Koch Bros.  More conservative Senate candidates will likely get assistance from the latter, and possibly from the former (In 2010, American Crossroads stepped up in Nevada after the RNC and NRSC ran away).

Is Mitt Romney the GOP’s Michael Dukakis?  Here again, Dukakis performed about as well in 1988 as would be predicted from the economy at the time.  Although we remember his missteps as a candidate, we tend to forget that the effect of those missteps was marginal.  Furthermore, as noted, to the extent Romney is a squish, it marginally helps him, relative to a NotRomney nominee. 

None of which is intended to dismiss marginal effects.  In a close election, what happens at the margin is important, perhaps crucial.  Thus, whether Will is ultimately right depends on the reader’s own assessment about how close the election may be, which ought to turn mostly on the reader’s certainty in his or her forecast for the economy.

On another level, Will’s final question is perhaps not quite the dig at Romney it seems to be in print.  Has conservatism come so far to settle for this?  If NotRomney voters cannot settle on a consensus NotRomney candidate, conservatism will have to settle for Romney.  And that is not Romney’s fault in the slightest.  Will’s real dig may be at what conservatism has managed to produce as the alternative to Romney.

–Karl

239 Responses to “Is George Will right about Mitt Romney?”

  1. Ding!

    Karl (37b303)

  2. HEY!!!

    I heard on CNN’s website that Romneys tears can cure cancer. /LOL

    DohBiden (d54602)

  3. ‘splunge, and I’m not being indecisive’

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  4. The problem with Romney is only partly that no one can figure out if he is a conservative who pretended to be liberal to get elected in Massachusetts, or a liberal who pretends to be a conservative to get elected in a Republican primary.

    But it is also partly because he seems to be content with putting forth modest policy adjustments in a time when many believe the system is in need of major reform. This is why he can’t break out against opponents like Perry, Cain, and Gingrich who are all deeply flawed candidates but who have proposed major reforms to the system.

    Gregory of Yardale (4c74f1)

  5. _________________________________________________

    (although there is precious little to support Romney’s idea that in-state college tuition for children of illegal immigrants is a powerful magnet for such immigrants)

    But such bits of policymaking undoubtedly become known through word-of-mouth in various communities, both here and in other countries, and fuel the sense that the US is one big pushover, soft-touch, big-mommy society. IOW, ripe for exploiting and easy to take advantage of.

    However, the core of the irony is that if a good percentage of the “undocumented,” or those born to illegal immigrants, had a good track record of performing reasonably well in the classroom — of doing well academically — then one wouldn’t have to be so worried about what that populace represents to this nation’s present and future. Adding fuel to the fire is that an intractable majority of such people always vote in a typically, mindlessly pro-liberal manner.

    Downward mobility — socially and economically — and a preference for leftism are a deadly combination. A recipe for stagnation and galloping mediocrity on an indefinite timescale—sort of like a mixture of inner-city America, Mexico and Venezuela, with a bit of Argentina (btw, a society that is predominantly of European descent but with a long history of self-immobilizing crises) thrown in for good measure.

    Mark (411533)

  6. ___________________________________________

    The general rule seems to be holding up this year, as public opinion polling generally has shown Romney a few points more competitive than NotRomney against Obama throughout the campaign to date.

    I suspect Romney is squishier than either Perry or Cain, but, regrettably, so are many people in this nation. That perhaps is why too many of them still give even an ounce of benefit of the doubt to President “Goddamn America,” and why they respond more favorably to a wobbly Republican than a staunch conservative. IOW, people have a soft spot in their heart for “big mommy” type of politicians (and a “big mommy” approach to life in general) than “big daddy” ones.

    As for Michael Dukakis, while he was no less ultra-liberal than the current guy in the White House is, he at least didn’t come with all the cruddy baggage of things like Jeremiah Wright, etc, etc. But Dukakis did have less persona (or likeability) that Obama, although that was offset by a lack of racial volatility—or the idea that “a non-white has to be not only be as good as the white that he or she is competing against, he or she has to be better.”

    Mark (411533)

  7. George Will is an intelligent fellow. Having said that, the focus needs to be on Barack Obama’s failed domestic and foreign policies and his incompetence as POTUS.

    The candidate who is most able to highlight the following:

    * why Obama’s policies are wrong
    * why they have led to the situation we now find ourselves in
    * what in the way of new policies are required to correct the situation
    * what/where the short term focus needs to be
    * what/where the long term focus needs to be
    * why the candidate believes he or she is the most capable among the group

    … is the candidate that Republicans should line up behind. Let the chips fall where they may.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  8. Mitt has gotten to where he is due to the high name recognition that he was bequethed by his father, his business acumen that was demonstrated at Bain, his organizational abilities high-lighted by the Winter Olympics, and the fact that he got lucky in being elected Governor as a Republican in a VERY Blue State.

    He will make an excellent Sec-Treasury, or SEC-Chrmn, in the Cain Administration.

    Ebenezer Scrooge (623630)

  9. Damn…bitten by the Friday SC Bug…Again!

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  10. I meant “SP”, as in sock-puppet…need more coffee!

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  11. Bachmann charges: Perry’s using tea-party groups to try to push me out of the race…

    http://www.nationaljournal.com/2012-presidential-campaign/bachmann-accuses-rival-perry-of-organizing-tea-party-slam-20111028

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  12. Cain will make an excellent VP or Secretary of Commerce or Treasury, AD.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  13. karl, you are badly wrong, and one must look no farther that 2008 for a clear example as to why. The GOP nominated “muddle” candidate McCain and many of the GOP voters stayed home. Look how well that turned out.

    rorschach (e051e4)

  14. OMG….Perry’s actually committing POLITICS!
    Oh, the Humanity.
    Where’s Claude Raines to close this scene….

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  15. The only good he could do at Commerce is to shut it down – which could be accomplished by just about any USMC Sgt-Major!

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  16. GOP and independent voters are motivated to oust Obama, as they know America must not endure another 4 years of his incompetence. 4 more years of this crap and we may be too far down the trail to reverse course.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  17. As to VP…it would be better to have an accomplished up-and-comer such as a Jindahl, for the same reason that McCain picked Palin:
    To secure a segment of the voters, and to use as a training ground for better things.
    The alternative is to select an “elder statesman” as GWB did with Dick Cheney…but, at the moment, I don’t think we have too many (if any) of those available.

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  18. Perry will soon become synonymous with the terms “dirty fighter”… “snake-in-the-grasssagebrush”. To wit, grabbing another’s scrotum or labia majora and biting down hard will become known as to have “perry’d” another.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  19. a dirty fighting, scrotum-biting, snake-in-the-sagebrush is just the type of guy we need to help create jobs and open our borders to the Third World.

    Rick Perry is my man, yes he is.

    Dustin (fbf87d)

  20. _______________________________________________

    Let the chips fall where they may.

    Colonel, when I see you and Dustin sparring over Romney versus Perry, that goes right over my head. IOW, it’s so crucial that this nation — assuming it’s not becoming insane like an Argentina or Venezuela — get rid of President “Goddamn America,” that nothing else is quite as important. So I observe the Republican candidates more from a purely tactical standpoint than from an ideological one.

    Even though I’m of the right, I’m also fully aware of the foibles of human nature. I’m fully aware of the irony of many on Wall Street contributing to Obama’s campaign and the Democrat Party (IOW, the epitome of “limousine liberalism” in limousine-liberal New York City). I’m fully aware that liberal sentiment infects a lot of people — Ronald Reagan included (ie, his secret negotiations with hostage-taking Iran) — and how that influences their way of voting.

    The fact someone with the ultra-liberal background of Obama got to be president in the first place reflects just how much left-leaning lunacy has corroded a large number of people throughout this nation. That is why there is a delicate balancing act to perform in 2012, with ideology on one side (is the candidate philosophically pure enough or not?), strategy on the other (is the candidate too liberal or conservative for the masses? Is the candidate likely to lose or gain dedicated partisan voters? Is the candidate’s personality likeable enough or not?).

    Mark (411533)

  21. Romney’s got that boom badoom boom boom badoom boom bass

    he’s got that super bass

    plus he hates filthy illegal mexican peoples with a righteous fury

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  22. except for the special ones in massachusetts he slathers all the free health cares on

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  23. As we discovered in Romney’s first race in ’94, against Kennedy, a financier that makes his living
    ‘consolidating surplus personnel’ doesn’t become terribly popular. No matter how many dissavowals of Reagan he issues.

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  24. ________________________________________________

    he slathers all the free health cares on

    hp, Romney is a squish at heart. He’s sort of like the way you support the idea of same-sex marriage, if not homo- or bisexuality in general, on one hand, but then on the other hand also often use “gay” in a mocking, pejorative way. In this particular instance, a good illustration of the dynamics of “limousine liberalism.”

    Mark (411533)

  25. ooh yes i did yes i did

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  26. rorshach, in fact, the GOP base did not really stay home in ’08. McCain did not lose because of a lack of enthusiasm from the GOP base.

    The problem was that the independants bought into the faux Obama and swung against McCain. In 2012, the camoflage has been stripped from Obama – the fake “smarter guy” stuff has been trashed, the “brilliant orator” nonsense ridiculed and his economic nostrums revealed as more Democrat pork. Independents are going to abandon Obama for the GOP candidate in large numbers whether Perry or Romney.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  27. and the walls came down…

    http://youtu.be/_kX8lqXAONg

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  28. Will is right. I am a conservative who will not work for Romney, and might not even vote for him against Obama, because I prefer the gridlock of O’s 2nd term to all the lefty shit Romney and a GOP congress would do in the honeymoon period, as they preen for the soccer mom vote. Romney is a big govt, high tax, pro abortion, self-serving chronic liar and upperclass twit WHO DEVISED THE MODEL FOR OBAMACARE. He shares none–NOT ONE–of my core conservative beliefs. He is the LEAST electable Republican candidate because blue collar Americans will see through him and resent him and his Wall Street mindest and give Obama another term. But even though that will be a terible shame, and a missed opportunity for all us conservatives, it won’t be the full-on disaster that a Romney presidency would represent.

    Kevin Stafford (abdb87)

  29. If it were about principles, consistency, and constitutionalism, we would all be voting for He-who-shall-not-be-named. Its about politics, which is the antithesis of principles, consistency, and constitutionalism.

    Romney, Perry, Cain… We’re not looking for NotRomney, we’re looking for NotPaul.

    ghost (e93f5d)

  30. rorschach (14),

    It’s true that Bush voters not voting for McCain was a sufficient condition for Obama to win in 2008, even absent increased turnout for Obama over Kerry in 2004. Then again, of that group, roughly 2/3 voted for Obama, which doesn’t really support the thesis that McCain failed because he was too moderate. Rather, it suggests that a large majority the drop off in Bush voters (likely more than 2/3) was due to the recession, Wall Street panic, lingering disenchantment with the length of the war, etc. Indeed if we’re measuring from a 2004 baseline, the argument is — as I noted in the main post — that in a close election (as 2004 was in the popular vote), ideology might matter because lots of things matter in a close election.

    Karl (3a04f5)

  31. I don’t trust Mitt Romney. He equivocates on positions until he sees which way the wind is blowing and then supports the most well supported. (Ohio comes to mind.) He will say anything in order to please the voters. He flip-flops like a fish out of water.

    He reminds me of someone else who has a reputation for leading from behind. Or am I imagining things?

    I’m sure he would be a better president than the current holder of the office. But so would my pet parakeet.

    I posted this comment in The Green Room on Hot Air, but I doubt it will be seen there, and this is a better place to make these remarks.

    I’ll vote for Romney, if necessary, but I’d so much rather have a real Conservative, in spite of what the Establishment GOP thinks.

    Lee (7411dd)

  32. Lee,

    I saw ‘em there. But the post looks to be headed to the front page later today, so you may have another shot at it.

    Karl (3a04f5)

  33. “As we discovered in Romney’s first race in ’94, against Kennedy, a financier that makes his living
    ‘consolidating surplus personnel’ doesn’t become terribly popular.”

    ian – Running against a Kennedy in Massachusetts was difficult? Who knew? Who knew?

    If you and Dustin want to argue in favor of running businesses like bloated, inefficient, Democrat government bureaucracies and not to ever cut workers or outsource jobs, I say have at it, but it seems at cross purposes with the message conservatives are trying to deliver to Washington.

    BTW, Texas imports $16 billion of goods from China annually. How many U.S. jobs are lost from that?

    I’m in favor of not accepting BS Democrat talking points. I hope eventually others will support that position.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  34. I’m in favor of not accepting BS Democrat talking points. I hope eventually others will support that position.

    I support that position.

    Colonelhaiku (fbf87d)

  35. Yeah daley unless they are against Perry.

    Self-hating tools for La raza.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  36. DohBiden — I always enjoy your substantive comments.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  37. DohBiden — La Raza is a tool of teh Zionist Oppressors, just ask OWS.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  38. :roll: the OWS are tools of brain hypoxia.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  39. I think Karl’s take, as usual, is accurate.

    I’d note that there’s a difference between moderate (waffly on all) and moderate (differing views from orthodoxy). Mike Huckabee’s a moderate Republican in that he supports massive additional spending and is soft on crime. Gary Johnson’s a moderate because he’s a severe fiscal conservative but not a social conservative. Romeny’s more a waffle.

    But I do think that the Not Romneys suck pretty bad this year. I dislike Perry, and the others are unqualified or highly unqualified. (I would vote for Obama over Bachmann and wouldn’t think twice about it.) There’s no Daniels or Christie in the race to really get behind.

    I do think competence is a real issue. This may be the Republicans’ year to put up their version of John Kerry vs. a very weak sitting president. Yikes.

    –JRM

    JRM (de6363)

  40. “‘consolidating surplus personnel’ doesn’t become terribly popular.”

    ian – Talk to me about the evolution of a nice Dallas company like Texas Instruments and how the geographic composition of its employees and manufacturing has changed over time. Then come back and whine to me about why it’s not fair for American companies to offshore jobs or build new manufacturing capacity overseas.

    I’ll wait.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  41. Or a nice chicagoan firm like…………..Obama intrsuments.

    :wink:

    DohBiden (d54602)

  42. I would vote for Obama over Bachmann and wouldn’t think twice about it.

    Speaking of waffles.

    Colonelhaiku (fbf87d)

  43. Comment by DohBiden — 10/29/2011 @ 12:34 pm

    A couple days ago, over at PJM, they posted a column by Ruben Navarrette Jr, titled:
    “Perry the Only Credible Choice for Latino Conservatives”
    http://pjmedia.com/blog/perry-the-only-cridible-choice-for-latino-conservatives/

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  44. Yes, He who rewarded the lawbreakers is the Only Credible Choice for Latinos…

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  45. I wonder if it ever occurs to good ol’ George that columns like this will be great fodder for Democrats next fall…

    JEA (3d508c)

  46. Rick Perry has his flaws and Ruben Navarrette Jr is a manwhore.

    Romney is no better on illegal immigration.

    Honestly no matter what race the illegals are we need to stop mollycoddling them.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  47. if I were a latino conservative I would be afraid of Wall Street Romney because he has such a passionate hatred for the latino children that want to study at the colleges … it gives me pause because the children are not to blame for the wanderlust of their parents, they just want to learn and make something of themselves

    jesus loves the little children all the children of the world red and yellow black and also white they are precious in his sight

    but not Wall Street Romney’s

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  48. Geez, Iran doesn’t need to use an EMP device to destroy us, just use the next generation of Crazy Bomb, the field tests for V1 seem promising as can be seen here.

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  49. Iran will use an EMP bomb to destroy us by 2013.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  50. you better unplug your computer

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  51. Ron Paul is my pick, but I’d certainly accept Perry over Obama. Perry’s flaws are minor compared to those of The One.

    Romney . . . Makes me feel like a starving man deciding whether to eat a piece of old meat, crawling with maggots.

    Cain? Yup. Real-world skills and experience. Common sense.

    Bachmann? Nope. She’s got more negatives than Palin, without most of Palin’s positives.

    Gingrich? Ewwwww! The rotting meat has liquefied into total putrescence. A sorry remnant of the promising insurgent.

    Huntsman? No way! We’ve already got one Obama!

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (dd7fae)

  52. Dayum, I bet the fat man’s kicking himself.

    elissa (8ad1de)

  53. Yeah, but with Huntsman, you get eggroll.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  54. I have a sneaking suspicion that Iran, as we know it, ain’t gonna be around much longer.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  55. ‘My kingdom for a harpoon’

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  56. Cain? Yup. Real-world skills and experience. Common sense.

    and pizza.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  57. nine toppings, nine inch pan-style for only $9.99!

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  58. ‘My kingdom for a harpoon’

    Comment by ian cormac

    just whack ‘em with one of those frozen armadillos.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  59. True Conservatives
    always want what they can’t have
    Purity Factor

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  60. How can you elect Obama who has no problem driving you into poverty as president?

    How can democraps voters vote for someone who has no problem sitting in a church of a black guy who blames whitey[both left and right] for all the ills in the world.

    Palin will win in 2016 and she will prove to the left she isn’t dumb which she isn’t.

    And when Obama throws the left under the bus and declares martial law you won’t be calling Palin dumb you’ll wish she were running for president.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  61. they’re so precious
    like General Jack Ripper’s
    bodily fluids

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  62. to the extent Romney is a squish, it marginally helps him

    You mean, We’re all squishes now???

    Unpublished (113930)

  63. Palin is so dumb she said there were 57 states in America…………..oh wait that was Obama.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  64. the Palinistas
    The Magnificent Seven
    have gun, will travel

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  65. I have a problem with palinistas so I’m not one.

    Did you know Palin said that we bitterly cling to our guns and religion…….Oh that was Obama.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  66. ring, ring, 7AM!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcHL8efKKPE

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  67. Comment by Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. — 10/29/2011 @ 2:38 pm

    I can certainly see the Libertarian fascination with Paul, but the 99% just won’t buy it –
    he’s just a bridge too far.
    ‘Fraid you’ll have to settle for Perry, or Cain.

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  68. Don’t forget that the Sarahcuda, in ’08, campaigned in 57 states…
    Oh, wait…

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  69. Perry or Cain I can live with. It’s finger-in-the-wind Romney that gives me the willies.

    I have no idea what Romney stands for, other than his own ambition. His global warming flip-flop is pitiful, and look who advised him on the environment as governor.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (dd7fae)

  70. Purity… of… Essence

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  71. P.O.E.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  72. Libertarians have also been known to suffer from PFS (Purity Factor Syndrome).

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (dd7fae)

  73. Don’t forget Palin told us FDR went on T.V. in 1929 to talk about the depression.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  74. Doh, you forgot some form of “sarc” tag @ 1525.

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  75. 78- Which is why their candidates very rarely win anything, even if they have the entire party behind them (both members).

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  76. Yes, ‘we really dodged a bullet there,’ remember when she told us not to travel on plane or train, in the event of a swine flu outbreak, sarcasm off, how did we get saddled with these mukluks.

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  77. Palin also told a paraplegic to stand up…………oh gode love ya that was Slow Joe.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  78. And that dimwit Rethuglican Christofascist snowbilly Palin even told a critic she had a much higher IQ than he did.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (dd7fae)

  79. Yes i was being sarcastic another drew.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  80. I guess it could have been worse, he could be consulting with Massive Dynamics, the evil corporation in Fringe, Massachussett’s is so squishy
    that the ‘supposedly’fiscally conservative Weld and Cellucci, let Gina McCarthy run rampant,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  81. Not only that Palin thought her running mate JohnMcamerica would be a good president.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  82. Brother Bradley, that was the tipoff, that led Maureen Dowd?? to discover that he had misrepresented his academic record, Of course, that didn’t stop her from supporting him over the snowbilly, twenty years later,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  83. Ian, with respected journalists like MoDo, Teh Narrative will always win out over mere facts.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (dd7fae)

  84. So, they sent McCain down to Saudi with Biden, so the Crown Prince wouldn’t declare war on us, which would be his first instinct,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  85. Don’t forget Palin told us FDR went on T.V. in 1929 to talk about the depression.

    Comment by DohBiden — 10/29/2011 @ 3:25 pm

    I thought it was interesting that Biden said several things in the 2008 debate with Palin that were not true. Nobody mentioned it.

    Mike K (9ebddd)

  86. I would be a bit more comfortable with Romney if he would only admit that Romneycare was not a good idea for Massachusetts. Costs have gone up and doctors are fleeing the state.

    Mike K (9ebddd)

  87. Good Lord, Karl. Has there ever been as many lily-livered “conservatives” threatening to sit on their thumbs hands if their fave candidate isn’t nominated as I’ve seen posting on your “Is Romney a Dukakis” thread at Hot Air?

    As my grandfather used to say, “common sense is not so common”…

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  88. So pledging on multiple occasions that he will eliminate ObamaCare just doesn’t cut it?

    P.O.E.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  89. The thing is that whole statement, is like the puzzlebox, in Hellraiser, trying to untangle it.

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  90. No colonel it just doesn’t sound sincere.

    I know Mike.

    I mean gosh you got a first inarticulate not so clean white VP.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  91. Mike K.,
    If Romney admits the obvious about RomneyCare’s failure, he’ll get even more grief for being a flip-flopper. So he exaggerates the differences between RomneyCare and ObamaCare. With Romney, appearance is more important than reality.

    And then there’s Romney’s gubernatorial embrace of the horrible John Holdren, which I linked to earlier. Has Romney even attempted to explain that one?

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (dd7fae)

  92. A successful dump-Sarah Palin on her whereabouts[dropping deadwood at the dump]

    DohBiden (d54602)

  93. Joe Biden-I think Meghan Mccain is so totally gnarly dude. Unlike those other repukelicans who think ya know that spending cuts will you know cut the deficit.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  94. Romney can always blame the changes the Leg and current Gov made after he left office – not that they made it “bad” (it was bad already), but they did make it worse.

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  95. Did Holdren ever pay his bet off?

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  96. That was Paul Ehrlich, and he did. Still singing the same Malthusian tune, however.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (dd7fae)

  97. Blasphemy, AD. That does NOT fit teh Narrative.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  98. Holdren, is like that crazy professor Bishop on Fringe, he hasn’t ripped a portal into an alternate
    universe, but give him time, he will.

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  99. ColonelHaiku:

    So pledging on multiple occasions that he will eliminate ObamaCare just doesn’t cut it?

    P.O.E.

    No, it doesn’t. Romney’s vow to issue waivers on Day 1 and repeal ObamaCare on Day 2 makes for great talking points but Business Week explains that it’s not that simple: If the Supreme Court doesn’t declare ObamaCare unconstitutional, only Congress can repeal ObamaCare. Thus, even if Romney carried through on his promises (a dubious proposition), whatever a President Romney might undo by executive order could be reimposed by any future Democratic President.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  100. Romney and Holdren are a deadly alliance between the forces of good and evil.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  101. Mitt Romney just sucks.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  102. Is Will right about Romney being the “pretzel candidate”? Yes. Indeed, on this point, Will did not even scratch the salt off the pretzel.

    I don’t think he was really trying. He was just trying to give a few examples probably all from this past week. He missed the fact that back in June Romney had endorsed Kasich’s legislation.

    Sammy Finkelman (3a0ae4)

  103. However, it’s the second, shorter conclusion of Will’s column that is getting the buzz in political circles:

    Romney, supposedly the Republican most electable next November, is a recidivist reviser of his principles who is not only becoming less electable; he might damage GOP chances of capturing the Senate. Republican successes down the ticket will depend on the energies of the Tea Party and other conservatives, who will be deflated by a nominee whose blurry profile in caution communicates only calculated trimming.

    Republicans may have found their Michael Dukakis, a technocratic Massachusetts governor who takes his bearings from “data” (although there is precious little to support Romney’s idea that in-state college tuition for children of illegal immigrants is a powerful magnet for such immigrants) and who believes elections should be about (in Dukakis’s words) “competence,” not “ideology.” But what would President Romney competently do when not pondering ethanol subsidies that he forthrightly says should stop sometime before “forever”? Has conservatism come so far, surmounting so many obstacles, to settle, at a moment of economic crisis, for this?

    Romney won’t damage Republican possibilities of taking the Senate. Congressional elections are really independent of Presidential elections. Certainly since 1972.

    Will’s argument is that some Tea Party candidates might be discouraged from running. This is unlikely – at most maybe they might lose one or two – but candidates decide anyway before the Presidential nominee is selected and they are also maybe the most electable.

    I don’t think anybody is impressed by Romney’s supposed competence in running things. And he has about as much credibility as Beetle Juice. (in the 1988 movie)

    When he suddenly latched onto Herman Cain at the last debate and d said, you know you and me we’re the same, we’re both popular because we have been businessmen, it reminded me of Beetle Juice claiming to wear the same clothing.

    Although the future is full of possibilities, Will is probably wrong about most of this. The general consensus among political scientists is that in presidential elections, the dominant factor is the economy, with candidate ideology being a distant second.

    I don’t think the economy is all that important.

    It is important on certain elections, and a perception that President is incompetent is deadly (incompetence is measured not by success or failure, but by wrong predictions.)

    It was the fact that hostages remained in Iran that did in Carter it was the fact that he kept on saying for half a year they’d be freed next week. The economy hurt him especially because he was elected on a premise that as a Democrat he’d be good for the economy and he had no explanation for why it was bad. And he actually had caused it by appointing Paul Volcker to the Federal Reserve Board and didn’t expect 20% interest rates, coombined with continued unemployment and inflation worse than his 1976 misery index to happen.

    Herbert Hoover kept saying prosperity is just around the corner.

    Both Herbert Hoover and Jimmy Carter relied on the experts. I think Taft’s problem was also incompetence as was the case with George H W Bush.

    George Bush the elder didn’t seem to understand anything about the economy or anything at all for that matter. He got elected the first time because of ideology. The pledge of Allegiance. Defense (The Soviet Union and East Germany still existed in 1988 and nobody thought it was going to end any time soon.) Mike Dukakis being a card carrying member of the ACLU. With all that means for the Supreme Court. And Dukakis did not come across as competent.

    Indeed, the studies suggest that a moderate does 1% or 2% better.

    All other things being equal. Which on average, they are.

    Sammy Finkelman (3a0ae4)

  104. but if the GOP nominates NotRomney, Team Obama will run the 2010 playbook by which Dems won Senate campaigns in key states by painting all those tea party energies as extremism

    If Newt Gingrich is the nominee, they’ll probably think they’ll have a picnic with him. But I don’t think any of the personal issues will make a difference. half of them don’t stand up to scrutiny.

    Team Obama’s instant thought will be: 1996!! If Bob Dole, who was vilified less than Newt Gingrich, couldn’t get elected in 1996, in an election in which the Republicans won a majority of both Houses of Congress for the second time in a row, how could Newt Gingrich??

    But Newt Gingrich might be able to defend himself, and in 1995, Dole was the victim of a stealth attack: In 1995, before he election season really got started, the Democrats ran TV commercials in most major markets to poison people against Bob Dole, but they were very careful not to run them in the Washington D.C., Los Angeles and New York media markets. So Bob Dole didn’t even know how he’d been attacked so he couldn’t respond. But this year it is impossible to make a stealth attack on the idea of senseless meat ax cuts in government spending and the whole controversy is very very public, and also this time the theme is, well, any compromise requires a slight rise in the highest tax brackets – but it really doesn’t.

    Sammy Finkelman (3a0ae4)

  105. No, it doesn’t. Romney’s vow to issue waivers on Day 1 and repeal ObamaCare on Day 2 makes for great talking points but Business Week explains that it’s not that simple: If the Supreme Court doesn’t declare ObamaCare unconstitutional, only Congress can repeal ObamaCare. Thus, even if Romney carried through on his promises (a dubious proposition), whatever a President Romney might undo by executive order could be reimposed by any future Democratic President.

    He has said he will use “reconciliation” to get rid of it. What do Cain, Perry, Gingrich and Bachmann prescribe?

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  106. Bob Dole wouldn’t have known how to respond, as he proved in the general, to think that with 9.1 unemployment, the economy won’t be an issue, is just daft, but there is a whole host of other issues involved,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  107. Yeah obama will point out how much of a hypocrite Flopney is.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  108. t Romney’s idea that in-state college tuition for children of illegal immigrants is a powerful magnet for such immigrants)

    That’s not Romney’s idea. That’s just a cynical attack. The main virtue of it being, that Perry just didn’t know how to defend it.

    Perry tried to respond with a Tu quoquetu quoquo

    He revived the argument that Romney hired illegal immigrants.

    Here is how Romney showed he is a good (but dishonest) debater.

    Romney’s first response was a flat, simple denial, which made it sound like the charge was made up out ofwhole cloth. Romney knew of course, that Perry could not within the debate rules elaborate on what he said. Perry tried to talk and Romney shut him up.

    Later Perry brought it up again. This time Romney fell back on his second line of defense. It was the company he hired that did that. Perry tried tosay Romney knew. Romney was not going to do a Meg Whitman and say the law was right so he was very careful to say he wanted to avoid indirectly hiring an illegal worker only because he was running for office. He wasn’t saying other people shouldn’t do it, and he was not saying other people should go beyond the law, thus not letting it be quoted against him in the general election and not losing parts of the homeowner and Hispanic vote.

    Sammy Finkelman (3a0ae4)

  109. Let me help you… Perry says he “will repeal ObamaCare”… Cain says he will “repeal” and “get rid of” ObamaCare… Gingrich says the “best bet is to let the Supreme Court get rid of ObamaCare”… Bachmann says that she is “absolutely committed to that full-scale repeal and that’s why this is the signature issue for 2012. Who will get rid of it? I will.”

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  110. Sammy says “you don’t know him and he don’t know you.”

    Gloria Allred lurks…

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  111. I think you all are worried way too much about the ideological purity of the Republican candidate, since if he becomes President, he will not necessarily be the one (or the only one) setting the agenda. If we hold the House and take the Senate, and Boehner and McConnell get Obamacare repeal through the Congress, don’t you think Romney (say) would sign it? Also real tax reform, border control, etc.? The public may even be more supportive of real reform legislation with someone they view as “moderate” in the White House. The next President will be an administrator and foreign policy maven; the engine of change in fiscal/domestic policy will be the House.

    Mahon (5aa772)

  112. Bob Dole did boner pill advertisements. Obama needs some of those to pull his performance out of the ditch, but its prolly already too late.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  113. I don’t think the economy is all that important.

    Unless we’re involved in a full-out war, the economy is always the issue that presidential elections rotate about.
    Even during the depths of the Cold War, people voted their economic interest.

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  114. He has said he will use “reconciliation” to get rid of it.

    That’s addressed in my second link.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  115. Here’s the relevant excerpt:

    As president, Romney could direct his administration not to implement some regulatory aspects of the law, but a future Democratic president could quickly reinstate them. Furthermore, he couldn’t, through executive order, eliminate most of the major spending provisions in the law. For that to happen, we’d need to see a repeal bill passed through both chambers of Congress. Given the unlikelihood that Republicans would gain a 60-vote supermajority in the Senate, this would have to be done through the reconciliation process. Though some people have argued to me that a GOP Congress would obviously pass a repeal of Obamacare and Romney would be forced to sign it, there’s no reason to believe that Congressional leaders would pursue a sure to be acrimonious reconciliation process unless the president were willing to stake political capital on it. So a President Romney couldn’t passively sit back and wait for a repeal bill to appear on his desk, he’d have to show courageous presidential leadership, pounding the table on the issue for months. And it won’t be just any months, but he’ll have to stake the crucial early months of his presidency on it after taking office in January 2013, because the major provisions start in 2014, and it will be harder to unwind by then. So this raises the question of whether I think Romney has the resolve to see something like this through, to which I’d respond: are you kidding me?

    Every “NotRomney” candidate has more credibility than Romney when it comes to using their political capital on this issue.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  116. Thanks, DRJ… what do Cain, Perry, Gingrich, Santorum and Bachmann prescribe?

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  117. I think we cross-posted, but I answered your last question 123 in my comment 122.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  118. BTW, Sammy, in 1980 voters were tired of queing up to buy gasoline on odd and even days – if the station even had anything in the tank.
    They were tired of inflation that was racing out of control.
    They were tired of paying 15+% for a home-loan – if they could get one.
    They were tired of paying 20+% for a car loan – with a required 1/3′rd down.
    So, don’t tell me that economics didn’t matter in that election.
    The fact that we had hostages being held in Iran was just the straw that was breaking the camel’s back.

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  119. Every “NotRomney” candidate has more credibility than Romney when it comes to using their political capital on this issue.

    Saying or writing that does not make it so. It’s conjecture, a prediction, a prognostication.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  120. We’re all giving our opinions, aren’t we?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  121. Denying reality is no way to go through life.
    - paraphrasing Dean Wormer

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  122. The point is whether our opinions are backed by logic and reason, and my link explains the logic of the opinion that makes sense to me. You can obviously disagree with it but to be credible, you need to explain why the reasoning is faulty. It’s not enough to just say “that’s conjecture” and dismiss it.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  123. So this raises the question of whether I think Romney has the resolve to see something like this through, to which I’d respond: are you kidding me?

    That is an extremely negative, perhaps even counter-productive thing to say. I believe each one of the candidates is conducting their efforts in good faith. I have no doubt that any of them – should he or she be elected POTUS – would work hard (to the best of their abilities) to rid America of ObamaCare.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  124. Falls in line with the negativity expected from Democrats.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  125. I apologize for quoting from so much of the article I linked above but here’s the summary for why Romney may not be willing to expend his political capital on repealing ObamaCare (and please read the whole thing):

    Romney, in short, has displayed zero political courage during his career. He has held opposite positions on nearly every issue, with one obvious exception. He still hasn’t disavowed the health care law he designed, campaigned for, and signed with a smiling Ted Kennedy at his side. And it happens to be the forerunner to Obamacare. There’s no reason to believe as cautious and calculating of a figure as Mitt Romney would stake the crucial first months of his presidency getting into a bruising political battle to repeal a law, when he still clings to its underlying policy ideas.

    And remember, New Deal era programs weren’t firmly enshrined in this country by Democrats, but becuase Republicans, once in power, stopped making the case against them and their leader, President Eisenhower, did nothing to unravel them. Thus, the damage that a President Romney could do to the cause of limited government simply by inaction on Obamacare is incalculable.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  126. Neither is being fat, dumb and a useful idiot for the Democrats, AD.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  127. I believe Romney will. I choose not to use Democrat talking points about any of the candidates.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  128. The pattern was seen in Great Britain, no political figure in the Tory ranks, except Thatcher, really tried to take on NHS, hence it metastatized to being
    the third largest bureaucracy in the world, as Daniel Hannan reminds us.

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  129. ColonelHaiku:

    That is an extremely negative, perhaps even counter-productive thing to say.
    ***
    I choose not to use Democrat talking points about any of the candidates.

    You won’t respond to criticism of Romney because you don’t like the source? Here’s Klein’s Twitter page and I can’t find anything that suggests he is a Democrat.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  130. If you read his Twitter page (and the articles linked therein), you’ll see he has concerns about all the GOP nominees, including Perry. Sounds like a classic Republican to me.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  131. And as much as I dislike Christie accusing him of declaring New Jersey a disaster zone for greedy reasons is stupid.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  132. I’d like to believe Romney would act against ObamaCare, but nothing in his record supports that belief.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (f69d1a)

  133. Gloria Allred would endorse Mahmoud Ahmachummyjihadist.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  134. Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/29/2011 @ 7:17 pm

    Well, I’ve always had a weight problem, and I am stubborn – but it is an informed pig-headedness, but I’ve never voted for a Democrat (and damn few moderates) or one of their fellow-travelers.
    So, all in all, I would say you’re describing someone else.
    YMMV!

    AD-RtR/OS! (623630)

  135. Didn’t Ehrlich say the bees would go extinct in 2003 if the population was not controlled?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  136. So, all in all, I would say you’re describing someone else.
    YMMV!

    Yes, by God, I was, lol.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  137. You won’t respond to criticism of Romney because you don’t like the source? Here’s Klein’s Twitter page and I can’t find anything that suggests he is a Democrat.

    Just his opinion, right? Just another elbow in the crowd.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  138. DRJ

    He doesent have to respond to criticism – no one does – of course he does spread I guess a wierd brand of propaganda so strange that if romney himself was watching he would highly dissavow and dissaprove.

    Romney missed his chance to defend Rick on the border, and promote himself

    To me the summary is this is what we face in the election:

    Romney is running on his cred as an elite business man who can manage and finess government and even him as the bestest of the besty best best put in a managed health care plan that is failing –

    so in other words if a golden outsider – one who is a master of mergers and ressurection of troubled corporations cannot find a path where a mandated health care is a workable solution in one of the oldest and wealthiest states in the union.

    On the other hand we have a business man who was let go by many organizations, lost his only race for office and has no plan no campaign but is a anti establishment novelty like the kid who runs for school president who says screw you and everyone loves him

    Then on the other hand we have a governor from Texas who already knew more governent plans dont work

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  139. None of these candidates is perfect, DRJ. I’d be much more interested in Klein exposing the many shortcomings of Barack Obama. God knows the MSM won’t do it. Why is it unreasonable to think someone from the Examiner might better use his time by telling America about the incompetent, ne’er-do-well Obama administration. Lord knows the media has barely scratched the surface.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  140. On the other hand we have a business man who was let go by many organizations, lost his only race for office and has no plan no campaign but is a anti establishment novelty like the kid who runs for school president who says screw you and everyone loves him

    and Johnson speaks of “weird propaganda”…

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  141. There’s no point in having a primary if we’re not going to discuss who best meets our conservative goals. The best argument for Romney is he’s polished because he’s had so much practice running for President. That’s important because it’s always good to have a polished candidate, but it’s not enough for me.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  142. Karl is right in that the Republican candidate must be seen as credible on the economy, and Mitt at least has that. But people are ALSO looking for a change agent (and being unhappy with Obama’s “change”), and Mitt is NOT that. He is if anything an establishment fixture, who will try to return us to normalcy. He is also boring as all heck.

    I guess, given how screwed up things are, I could settle with half a loaf. Too bad Mitt won’t tell me which half.

    Richard M Nixon (563f77)

  143. damn

    Kevin M (563f77)

  144. “Romney, in short, has displayed zero political courage during his career.”

    DRJ – I have trouble with blanket statements like these. It would be interesting to understand what Klein considers political courage with respect to Romney – his stance on gay marriage apparently does not count, his 1,000 plus exercises of his veto power do not, switching certain government employees from defined benefit to defined contribution retirement plans do not, cutting taxes, balancing the budget all four year, leaving the state with a $2 billion rainy day fund, vetoing in-state tuition for illegal immigrants.

    It’s an easy statement for Klein to make, a harder one for him to explain.

    I understand your position on the veto of ObamaCare. RomneyCare is the toughest issue for Romney to walk away from and he has chosen the only honest path by not doing it.

    I’m not a fan of mandates, but as originally envisioned, my understanding of RomneyCare was that the type of cheap policy I favor, cat cover with something like a $10,000 deductible would have been allowable. Upon implementation they switched to a one size fits all gold plated minimum after lobbying from health industry groups to include coverage for chiropractic visits, comprehensive mental health and all sorts of other goodies that jacked up the costs. Romney vetoed eight sections of the bill, but as you know, in Massachusetts, his veto could be easily overridden by the Dems.

    People looking for examples of Romney’s political courage need to take those realities into account.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  145. “The best argument for Romney is he’s polished because he’s had so much practice running for President.”

    DRJ – I would suggest that he understands both the public and the private sector and is polished.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  146. Dole was the victim of a stealth attack etc

    Bob Dole lost for the same reason he was so credible as a Viagra spokesman – he was old physically and old mentally. His attempt to give out a web address at the end of one debate was cringeful (htpp::/wwww.bobdolecom or some such). Falling off a stage didn’t help. Harking back to the 50′s as a golden age really didn’t play on either coast. It was pitiful. Be like running a 70-year-old Santorum today. Wrong guy to run.

    There are a lot of adjectives for Newt, but “stodgy” and “befuddled” aren’t among them.

    [note: fished from spam filter. --Stashiu]

    Kevin M (563f77)

  147. OH MY GOSH!!! HE CRITICIZED ROMNEY HE COMMITTED TREASON!!! TO THE LAIR WITH YOU!!!ELEVENTYONE

    /Romney Hemorrhoids

    DohBiden (d54602)

  148. DohBiden — Sorry, this is me bowing. Rick Perry is pure and unique, conservative snowflake and a true Christian. He has made Texas a modern miracle.

    He is squishy on immigration and has the same fascist tendencies we see in Obama, see Tardasil and Kelo like land grabs involved in the Trans Texas corridor, but American voters need to wake up and smell the coffee.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  149. The impression i see is that the establishment media is seeing that indeed Romney is not the choice, he’s not our future, they are turning on him thr negative conservative articles are increasing, that coupled with Cains wanting to withdraw from public scrutiny is quite telling

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  150. daleyrocks,

    Klein explains at the link his claim that Mitt Romney’s career seems to have more convenient positions than principled positions. I believe Romney is a man of character who always believed he was doing the best thing at the time. However, I also believe Romney will sacrifice principle if it means getting things done: At heart, he’s a get-it-done businessman. That attitude is good in business but it’s not always good in politics because it usually means more and bigger government.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  151. That sounds like the Taibbi piece, daley, which many acres of trees suffered needlessly for,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  152. I should say it’s not always good for conservative politicians. Establishment politicians love more and bigger government.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  153. Just be careful, DRJ. Pretty soon we will be hearing that Romney is “no different from Obama,” and even crazy comments like “he’ll appoint Supreme Court justices just like Obama would” and then all of the Political Purists will sit out the election.

    And we will hear that getting the Senate is the most important thing.

    Me, I’m reminded of all the perfectly principled people who voted for Perot, to “send a message” the “establishment Republicans.” The “answer” was eight years of Clinton.

    Oh, sure, I have my preferences. But Job #1 is getting this administration out of office and collecting big speaking fees and consulting fees on movies.

    I realize that my opinion is, um, not widely held around here. But you will notice that, despite a few rumbles, the Democrats rally around their people. It’s their strength.

    I understand your points, and I agree with them. But to misquote Rumsfeld, we go to elections with the candidates we can get. Not necessarily the ones we want.

    But I shudder to think of what is going to happen, if the “purists” all stay home.

    My opinion only.

    Simon Jester (ceca35)

  154. Simon Jester,

    I think Romney is the clear frontrunner and I’ve repeatedly said I will vote for whoever the GOP nominates. In fact, unlike many people I read, I’m impressed with the GOP field and I will be happy to vote for the winner — including Romney, who displayed impressive practical leadership in rescuing the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympics. But I’m not going to act like it doesn’t matter who wins.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  155. Simon,

    they won vote for Romney – and he knows that

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  156. wont vote for Romney

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  157. I disagree, Eric. I think conservatives will vote for Romney if he’s the nominee, especially if he picks Rubio (or someone like him) as his running mate.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  158. Obama-I would love to be president but I can’t handle the 9,500 Year terms.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  159. DRJ

    Rubio – I don know – he has a checkered past, has rolled around in the muck of Florida state politics, and hasn’t done anything other than giving CPAC a rousing pandering speech –

    Rubio isn’t the superstar – yet – oh thepotential is there

    BUT seeing Paul closing in on Romney in some outlier polls I think Mitt is not going to get any conservative votes, Obama romney, no difference

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  160. FWIW I believe Romney would pick Rubio as his running mate. However, I also think Romney is not so arrogant that he would refuse to consider people like Cain, Perry, or whoever is doing well. (IMO Obama’s ego kept him from picking Hillary as his running mate.) To his credit, I think Romney is strong enough not to let his ego overcome his judgment.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  161. “That sounds like the Taibbi piece, daley, which many acres of trees suffered needlessly for,”

    ian – Do you have a link?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  162. DRJ

    Rubio doesnt want the scrutiny – he had a problem with his state election finances and there are strong rumors of some no-show state contract teaching jobs, and there was the problems charging personal expenses on political credit cards and thats just the surface

    I dont mean to be ugly but he ran for the Seante because he was unemployed – Frist called him out for these part time ad-hoc teaching jobs and proposed cutting the funding for them -

    So they say in Florida

    Yes Univision was ugly to him but when people are spinning BEFORE the political attacks are coming theres is alot of fire under the smoke

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  163. While I’ve divided my life between MN and WI I have roots in IA as well. MN politics are more like IA, bizarre.

    MN has a radical Donk DFL, a flaccid GOP and an Indepedence party to the left of Blue Dogs that tends to get almost 10% in contests.

    The last batch of freshmen elected to the Statehouse are shockingly more conservative than the old line GOP. Still MN elected another loon as Governor, Democrat Dayton and likes divided government.

    Urkel won with 57%. MN might have the fewest Evangelicals, IA the most. WI had a clean sweep of GOP regulars in 2010, mentored by Barbour.

    Klobuchar is up in MN Senate and is popular and untainted by Dead Meat and Reid. Kohl in WI is retiring and Methuselah Thompson will replace him.

    I’d expect Romney to carry WI but lose narrowly in IA and MN. ESAD.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  164. Goodnight DRJ! Hang in there – hope to see you writing soon :)

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  165. I think this may be the article ian was talking about, daley.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  166. “Klein explains at the link his claim that Mitt Romney’s career seems to have more convenient positions than principled positions.”

    DRJ – The above statement seems to conflict with the statement that he has never displayed any political courage and the things I described in #153 were not necessarily convenient for a Massachusetts governor.

    I think too many Republicans take the easy way out looking at Romney and dismiss him because of his flip flopping and because he is not as conservative as someone like Perry. They don’t actually take the time to look at what he actually did or the environment he did it in.

    It is a way to dismiss a candidate, but I think an intellectually dishonest way, but one which many commenters here are promoting, which is why I have been pointing out the flaws in their analysis.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  167. 168., 170. I could be wrong but I don’t think Romney will have a choice but to pick Cain.

    Maybe with at-large, party-assigned and 2nd-place electors he can swing an early ballot nomination but I doubt as much.

    TEAs are not happy.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  168. Goodnight, Eric, and I’m signing off, too. I need to catch up on what happened in the Stanford-USC and Tennessee-South Carolina football games.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  169. “I think this may be the article ian was talking about, daley.”

    DRJ – Thanks.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  170. You and Eric may be right, gary. Frankly, I’d be okay with several combinations including Romney-Perry, Perry-Romney, or Romney-Cain.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  171. “I dont mean to be ugly but he ran for the Seante because he was unemployed – Frist called him out for these part time ad-hoc teaching jobs and proposed cutting the funding for them”

    EPWJ – Of course you mean to get ugly. It is what you do.

    You already did it about Rubio on another thread and Cain above.

    Also, it is Crist not Frist if I am thinking of the same person.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  172. No, it’s his latest one on Perry, fascism isn’t mentioned but Politburo is, from a dissapointed Obama supporter, it screams irony. he salvages almost all candidates equally, although Palin, Bachmann and Perry have been the worst of his attacks.

    Our former state party chief, a factotum of Crist, is on trial for miaapropriation of funds,
    we’re like Alaska with gators instead of polar bears.

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  173. daleyrock,

    The way I read Klein’s argument is that Romney took the positions that made it possible for him to accomplish something. I call that convenient rather than principled, but perhaps it would be more fair to describe Romney as someone willing to compromise. Compromise is typically a good thing but I’m not sure it will be in this election, when finding common ground with the Obama-led Democrats could (in my opinion) lead to disaster. And yet that seems to be Romney’s strong point.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  174. Obama-What is war good for? Nothing except when a democrap is in office.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  175. “he salvages almost all candidates equally, although Palin, Bachmann and Perry have been the worst of his attacks.”

    SHOCKA!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  176. Have the ‘media crush your enemies,’ see them driven before you’ Romney instills in me active
    indifference, unlike with Huck, I’m sure I’m not the only one.

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  177. Is this the Taibbi article you meant, ian?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  178. He says Perry is the “Adolph Hitler of shallow.” Taibbi certainly has a way with words.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  179. “Compromise is typically a good thing but I’m not sure it will be in this election”

    DRJ – The number one priority is to get the bastards out. If we control both chambers we can hopefully reverse some damage and compromise will not be necessary. Otherwise, you help me make my point. People have to look at the environment in which Romney operated and realize it was a successful governorship in an overwhelmingly blue state.

    I can’t help people who are unwilling to intellectually take that look. I am bothered by some of the flip flops.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  180. The basic premise in Will’s argument with respect to the Senate is wrong. The premise that he uses accepts that people won’t come out to vote or will be less enthused if Romney is the candidate. Did he not witness the elections in 2010? If any “side” will be less enthused if Romney is chosen as the nominee it will the the left not the right. The right, whether they like their nominee, whether they’re unhappy he’s not an acceptable conservative will still support and vote for Romney over Obama because he IS a conservative and IS a successful businessman and HAS prepared himself to be President. The question has evolved into whether the left can get “all geared up” against the Republican candidate. If it is Romney then the answer is no. This is not 2008. Obama is uninspiring and plays like a broken record. His cliche’s are old and bumper sticker slogans are wearing thin. He can’t even fill an auditorium anymore. People are out of work and feeling the pinch of his policies and the work of his cronies. He’s pissed off the far left, soldiers, cops, Jews, the elderly, and many others. The left is scared shitless of a Romney nomination.

    Dave B (982f20)

  181. “Taibbi certainly has a way with words.”

    Taibbi is worthless propaganda scum.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  182. If you’re saying we need the best possible person for the job, I agree and Romney may be that person. I just prefer someone I know thinks like me instead of someone I hope thinks like me. Maybe it’s a Texas thing.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  183. I don’t think it’s possible to “know” who will be the best candidate to take on Obama. Who of us would have picked Obama to beat Hillary and then to beat McCain? There are so many things that can happen that we can’t predict.

    And did anyone see the end of Stanford-USC? 3 OT. Wow.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  184. “The general consensus among political scientists is that in presidential elections, the dominant factor is the economy, with candidate ideology being a distant second.”

    A caveat or two are in order. Only 10% of the electorate swings, and moreover, they rarely swing to the Right. Not, as I admitted earlier, the progressive Midwest is representative I, in rather limited circles, am hearing little admission of outright stupidity on these peoples parts for their past electoral behavior.

    In fact, when I call for drawing and quartering the Bernank they say, “Well what can he really do?” They understand demographics has treated them kindly and been positively horrid to their children.

    Never promised them life was fair.

    These folks honestly regret, that following such a “mediocre” first term, Lord of the Flies(my gloss) would gain a second, but the GOP has nothing. Tell them Goldman Sachs was just playing the hand dealt them if you are truly ready to meet your maker.

    Maybe PA is an altogether different story for Romney, but he’s not getting many converts in this part of the country.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  185. 190. I lived in McCollum’s 4th and was seriously planning on caucussing with the Dems to vote for Hillary because in MN the zeitgeist was already evident. None of these people knew anything about Obama he or NPR hadn’t told them, and never did.

    People in MN had been in his pants since the 2004 convention speech.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  186. 187. “People have to look at the environment in which Romney operated and realize it was a successful governorship in an overwhelmingly blue state.”

    T-Paw with the current MN Repub-controlled Statehouse(he never had) or Scott Walker with his WI Statehouse.

    WTF?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  187. “I just prefer someone I know thinks like me instead of someone I hope thinks like me. Maybe it’s a Texas thing.”

    DRJ – Perry may be the best person. Who knows. You folks know him better than people outside of Texas, but so far he has gone backwards rather than forwards in the race. If he really wants it, he’s got a lot of selling to do.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  188. I do not see Romney winning.

    Californio (1e979a)

  189. Anyone to the right of Che should take “polticial insight” from Matt Taibbi as quickly as Jews should let Col. Hans Landa make their travel arrangements.

    Californio (1e979a)

  190. It’s not too late to join the Rick Perry train to glory.

    All aboard.

    Hallelujah!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  191. As bad as pres. Obama has been, I think we actually needed him to show people the fundamental difference between R’s and D’s – I said it a year or so ago and I’ll say it again – what realy matters is Congress. To the extent that Mitt would affect down ticket? I don’t see it this go round – 2010 was just the tip of the iceberg.

    The economy DOES waken the “surface voters” and as soon as they conclude the pie is NOT finite, that the D’s just want to shift the picking of winners & losers and the R’s want to expand an infinite pie, they will vote for R’s. Or just stay home.

    That said? He will probably be re-elected – by hook or by crook.

    Amy Shulkusky (67fbd5)

  192. the great thing about Romney is that, if those stupid Beltway RINO’s nominate his worthless carcass, that i can not vote for him and have no worry about jeopardizing things, since i live here in the People’s Republic, and the sheep will re-elect the SCOAMF by a landslide.

    what won’t happen at my house, if Mittens is the nominee, is us doing calls, emails or whatever other out of state support we could do, and he won’t, nor will the GOP get, a single dime of donations from us.

    we’ll just buy that much more ammo, or add to the GTFO fund for abandoning California.

    that the GOP “leadership” is pushing this schmuck is further proof of what i’ve said here for years: the Beltway RINO’s will do whatever they need to do to protect their personal perks and advantages, and they don’t give a damn about anything else.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  193. Over and over again pipple keep sayin’

    “It’s the economy stupid!”

    Like something can happen–and that the person at their elbow believes this–to change the direction of the Ship of State while it plows into the debris field 10,000 fathoms down.

    Memmember CR2011, the Debt Ceiling, and CR2012? What we really go was a 5% increase in spending, i.e., a 5% increase in CPI, minimum.

    K. Stafford, up around 29, speaks the truth, the GOP is token opposition to Progressivism at best, complicity in the likeliest outcome for 2012.

    Was it Thursday we had the Greek default? Next week at the G20, Mexico is fronting Portugal’s request for equal treatment. WTFU.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  194. kevin staffords comment at 29 is scary accurate for halloween

    no Rom no Freedom

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  195. ___________________________________________

    He will probably be re-elected – by hook or by crook.

    That cynicism about the mindset of many voters out there influences the way I deal with Romney, Perry and Cain, or any other Republican candidate for that matter. IOW, I know there are many people — too many people — who are soft in the head about people and policies that lean left. If I didn’t observe that, I could breathe a sigh of relief and adjust my POV so that a more, or truly, conservative person was on the ballot running against President “Goddamn America.”

    That we should even have to doubt whether anyone running against the guy now in the White House will be able to beat him truly indicates this society is — as Jeremiah Wright and Obama’s former close adviser espouses — goddamned.

    Leftist sentiment is an innate and often foolish facet of human nature, is deeply imbedded in a fairly good percentage of people, and is always lurking in the dark corners of the populace. When it infects a good portion of a society, you end up with an Argentina, Mexico, Greece, Venezuela, northern Europe, Illinois, New York, California, etc.

    Mark (411533)

  196. __________________________________________

    “It’s the economy stupid!”

    And if that applies to the attitudes of most voters, then they truly have narrow, greedy and self-centered interests.

    I wouldn’t be happy about Obama and want to see him reelected even if the economy, by some quirk of fate, were booming.

    The flip side to that is all the people who keeping favoring liberal politicians even if they’re trapped in a community or society that has been in a socio-economic quagmire for years or decades. Places like a variety of Third-World nations, including Venezuela or Mexico, or, closer to home, urban/inner-city America. Or America over 60 years ago, when Franklin Roosevelt (who wanted taxes on upper-income people to be as absurdly high as 80 percent) kept getting reelected in spite of the Great Depression.

    In the case of those voters, “it’s the leftism (meaning a requirement that everyone be liberal), stupid!”

    Mark (411533)

  197. I feel like a high school cheerleader who just had her leg jizzed on in the back of a convertible.

    Taibbi has a strange way of describing a feeling of being cheated. Something tells me he expected no less than a full éjaculent visage.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  198. Taibbi is worthless propaganda scum.
    I greatly enjoyed Taibbi’s takedown of “The World Is Flat”, but lost a lot of respect when he published that fanciful hit piece of Bachmann, loaded with borrowed material, and vivid descriptions of places he’d never been to.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (f69d1a)

  199. Now playing in Iowa:

    Cain 23%

    Romney 22%

    Paul 12%

    Bachmann 8%

    Perry 7%

    Gingrich 7%

    Santorum 5%

    Huntsman 1%

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  200. Cain’s continued strength in the polls is impressive. If he actually wins Iowa, Romney’s campaign could collapse like a punctured whoopie cushion.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (f69d1a)

  201. Taibbi is the love child of Charles ”oppponents of islam is racist” Johnson and Debbie Schlussel

    DohBiden (d54602)

  202. Taibbi engages in stereotypes of jews being greedy right?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  203. Taibbi engages in a lot of stereotypes about conservatives. Hadn’t heard the Jewish one, though.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (f69d1a)

  204. Ahhhhhhhhh yes raising taxes on the rich will allow them to pay their workers.

    Good one leftards i mean raising taxes so you can be enriched will allow people to pay minimum wage to their workers.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  205. Mark – thanks for understanding what I meant.

    Amy Shulkusky (67fbd5)

  206. BTW, Texas imports $16 billion of goods from China annually. How many U.S. jobs are lost from that?

    None. They’re not “US jobs” in the first place.

    Free trade is the original cause of what used to be called liberalism and we now call conservatism. If you’re not on board with that then you have no place in the movement.

    Milhouse (9a4c23)

  207. How come the left thinks a tax means your giving a paycheck to your workers?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  208. _____________________________________________

    Taibbi engages in a lot of stereotypes about conservatives.

    I don’t trust observers like that. However, the following segment from his piece in Rolling Stone does give me pause about Perry. But in a way, it should make a leftist like Taibbi less skittish about a non-liberal or, at least, a non-ultra-liberal. Although I have a hunch that if an out-and-out, dyed-in-the-wool leftist/registered Democrat politician were running around raping and pillaging the community, Taibbi would respond: “And other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play!!?”


    Back then, the future global-warming denier was a Democrat, and even supported Al Gore for the presidency in 1988. But with Texas moving to the right, Perry switched parties the following year – not for ideological reasons, it appears, but because he could sense the wind shifting.

    “Perry is a really, really good politician,” one Republican strategist later explained. “He understood where the state of Texas was going.”

    …During his two terms in the office, Perry demonstrated little ideological bent, even expressing support for Hillary Clinton’s health care plan in the early Nineties.

    In 1998, Perry was elected lieutenant governor alongside George W. Bush, serving with the kind of distinction that made his boss look like Winston Churchill. Perry reportedly zoned out during a series of breakfast meetings that Bush held with top Texas politicians. “Sometimes, to pass the time, he would file his nails,” The New Republic reported.

    ^ There’s a lot of squishiness in both Perry and Romney.

    Mark (411533)

  209. I do not see Romney winning.

    Comment by Californio

    As a near lifelong resident of the once-great paradise known as California, I agree that it is difficult to see a Republican enjoying much success at anything. We haven’t seen a successful Republican since Pete Wilson served as governor.

    Today, a solid guy like Wilson wouldn’t have a chance of winning out here and that is precisely because this state’s composition has changed: special interests, powerful public employee unions, a large underclass that votes politicians into power who will gift them with an open tap on the state’s financial resources, etc..

    But we ain’t like most of America, and for that, “most of America” should be thankful.

    Because California is toast.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  210. “I greatly enjoyed Taibbi’s takedown of “The World Is Flat”, but lost a lot of respect when he published that fanciful hit piece of Bachmann, loaded with borrowed material, and vivid descriptions of places he’d never been to.”

    Brother Bradley – According to Joel Pollak, Taibbi is behind the left’s smear campaign against the Koch Brothers.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  211. Anyways if we taxed the rich 100% the money they give will only fund the government for 4 and a half months.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  212. Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/29/2011 @ 6:15 pm

    He [Romney] has said he will use “reconciliation” to get rid of it. [Obamacare]

    That just means that the Senate (which he doesn’t control – he can just recommend this be done] could repeal it without running into a filibuster. It’s about the only exception to the filibuster rule. This presumes a Republican majority – very likely, even if the republicans lose seats in the House.

    Now it may very well be that the Supreme Court will throw out the entire law (especially with the Administration arguing non-severability) before the election.

    The Republican slogan was “repeal and replace” which means something good is going to have to replace it, and a failure to come up with even ideas could cause great problems for the Republicans.

    President Obama may be demanding immediate action next summer or fall..

    Sammy Finkelman (3a0ae4)

  213. The President proposes, the Congress disposes.

    Community Organizers issue sweeping statements that sound good, but are impractical for the most part.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dd1fff)

  214. President Obama may be demanding immediate action next summer or fall

    hard to be heard when he’s shouting from the valley.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  215. Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 10/29/2011 @ 7:08 pm#

    So, don’t tell me that economics didn’t matter in that election.

    What I’m saying is that it didn’t matter directly. It was a subset of being incompetent.

    BTW, Sammy, in 1980 voters were tired of queing up to buy gasoline on odd and even days – if the station even had anything in the tank.

    And what was bad about that is that that was totally unnecessary. This was because of Secretary of Energy James Schlesinger. The Iranian revolution starting in in November 1978 was supposed to cause a reduction in oil production. It did not cause a worldwide oil shortage. But Jimmy Carter’s energy policy was to be prepared. Being prepared meant you beat a shortage to the punch. This he called conservation.

    Odd and even was actually over by 1980. Just something people remembered.

    It had started in Lebanon during the 1973-74 Arab oil embargo (this was before the Lebanese Civil war) It took a while to spread that year.

    In 1979 Jimmy Carter’s Energy Secretary rushed it into it right at the beginning. But I’m not sure how many people understood this was directly the result of Jimmy Carter’s policy and totally unnecessary. I think a substantial minority did.

    Also don’t forget the bill that passed Congress in 1978 that mandated that air conditioners (in big commercial buildings) could not have their thermostats set below 78 degrees (at first they wanted it to be 80 degrees) and buildings could not be heated past I think 65 degrees.

    Congress passed it with almost no debate. It was passed by voice vote in the House and just one page or of debate in the Senate in the Congressional Record. I looked it up. Lowell Weicker (R-Conn) was for it.

    That was the Senator (the “horses’s ass”) whom William F Buckley later endorsed Joe Lieberman in 1988 just to get rid of.

    The provision could be waived by the president, and just about the very first thing that Ronald Reagan did when he was inaugurated was to waive it. And later I guess the law was repealed or expired and the idea has never been heard from again.

    This of course was part of Jimmy Carter’s “energy conservation” policy, which consisted as I said, of beating a shortage to the punch.

    I don’t recall that Reagan made too much of this in the campaign. It was kind of an underground issue.

    They were tired of inflation that was racing out of control.

    They were tired of paying 15+% for a home-loan – if they could get one.

    They were tired of paying 20+% for a car loan – with a required 1/3′rd down.

    All the same thing. And they were right to blame Jimmy Carter for this. Interest rates had actually peaked in March, 1980.

    This really mattered because in 1976, at the last moment really, Jimmy Carter had gotten the endorsement of the AFL-CIO and George Meany, on the grounds essentially, that, “he’s a Democrat” and Democrats are supposed to be good for the economy.

    That’s why the question “Are you better off now than you were four years ago” was so telling. It wouldn’t work for every election everywhere.

    Here it meant: I mean almost four years had passed. If he was going to do something good for the economy, it should have happened already. Instead things were a lot worse. This undermined the whole basis why a lot of people had voted for him in the first place!

    The fact that we had hostages being held in Iran was just the straw that was breaking the camel’s back.

    It was symbolic and a case study. But it was actually the same issue: incompetence. Not having any idea of what is going on or what to do about it.

    Sammy Finkelman (3a0ae4)

  216. Comment by Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. — 10/29/2011 @ 7:40 pm

    I’d like to believe Romney would act against ObamaCare, but nothing in his record supports that belief.

    What I believe Mitt Romney would most likely aim for, were he elected President and the Supreme Court had not ruled it unconstitutional, is make some modifications in the Affordable Care Act, but keep the individual mandate, and say that he had repealed Obamacare.

    Passing something would be more important than any delay in passing a law.

    Sammy Finkelman (3a0ae4)

  217. Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/29/2011 @ 6:32 pm

    Sammy says “you don’t know him and he don’t know you.”

    I can’t figure this out.

    Sammy Finkelman (3a0ae4)

  218. Romney is a girly man.

    SarahPalin (d54602)

  219. Here ya go, Sammy… btw… I use this as a ringtone:

    http://youtu.be/9OyT9wP3U-Q

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  220. SF: President Obama may be demanding immediate action next summer or fall

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/30/2011 @ 11:15 am

    hard to be heard when he’s shouting from the valley

    I don’t understand this either.

    Sammy Finkelman (3a0ae4)

  221. Right now President Obama is talking about the “Republican Congress” and Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley even said on CBS’s “Face the Nation” it was the “do-nothing Republican Congress”

    Remember, he’s another Truman.

    Barely noticing, or hoping people don’t notice, that it isn’t an entirely a Republican Congress.

    Of course some Republicans don’t notice it either:

    GOP.gov – The Website of the Republican Majority in Congress

    http://www.gop.gov

    The Website for the Republican Majority in Congress, GOP.gov provides the latest news from the House Republican Conference…

    The New York Post editorializes that if and other Democrats keep it up, voters may make it real in November 2012:

    If Democrats don’t want to acknowledge their Senate majority, voters can quite readily take it away from them next November.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/obama_party_dodge_GcMYUFAJccayz3oqFjpKeN#ixzz1cIJRxcyz

    [note: fished from spam filter. --Stashiu]

    Sammy Finkelman (3a0ae4)

  222. translation for Sammy: Let Obama “demand immediate action”. He has lost whatever presence he once may have had. He no longer pontificates from the mountaintop, he lows from the valley like a steer.

    ColonelHaiku (fbf87d)

  223. Brother Bradley,

    I admit it’s entertaining to read things like Taibbi’s takedown of Freidman, especially because it’s Friedman, but it also illustrates something that bothers me a great deal about today’s world. The use of sarcasm and ridicule to skewer someone else should be not be the defining traits of intelligence and cool. Have we so lost our ability to communicate ideas that ridicule is our chief tool? I’m not sure.

    Of course, sarcasm and ridicule have long been the first choice of the young, the aimless, and anyone whose chief claim to achievement comes from taking those around them down a peg. Now it’s the choice of the not-so-young, and that’s a shame.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  224. Comment by Simon Jester — 10/29/2011 @ 8:49 pm

    Me, I’m reminded of all the perfectly principled people who voted for Perot, to “send a message” the “establishment Republicans.” The “answer” was eight years of Clinton.

    I didn’t want to send a message to “establishment” Republicans. I just didn’t want to see 4 more years of Bush – and then Quayle. We had to get off that train.

    I did this assuming that Clinton would be impeached, but it took longer than I thought it would, and then he didn’t get removed from office.

    Oh, sure, I have my preferences. But Job #1 is getting this administration out of office and collecting big speaking fees and consulting fees on movies.

    I realize that my opinion is, um, not widely held around here. But you will notice that, despite a few rumbles, the Democrats rally around their people. It’s their strength.

    I understand your points, and I agree with them. But to misquote Rumsfeld, we go to elections with the candidates we can get. Not necessarily the ones we want.

    But I shudder to think of what is going to happen, if the “purists” all stay home.

    My opinion only.

    Sammy Finkelman (3a0ae4)

  225. Sorry, I quoted most of the message I was responding to. Everything starting from

    Oh, sure, I have my preferences

    Imagine if I tried to do this on a G3 Virgin Atlantic or other phone!

    Sammy Finkelman (3a0ae4)

  226. It didn’t actually matter in New York State anyway, except for the protest effect..

    Sammy Finkelman (3a0ae4)

  227. Given a choice between being shot by Obamas minion task force and holding their nose and voting the GOP[because Bachmann taxing the poor is racist now.] the ultra-left will vote for Obama.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  228. Because Bachmann wanting people to truly pay their fair share is racist now.*

    DohBiden (d54602)

  229. Brother Bradley – According to Joel Pollak, Taibbi is behind the left’s smear campaign against the Koch Brothers.

    Isn’t that giving Taibbi too much credit?

    Part of the smear campaign, I can believe. But behind it? A mastermind? There are so many competitors to smear the diabolical Koch bros, Source of All Evil™.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (28546f)

  230. Well it fits his m.o, with his colleague Ames, from the Exile, he is a conduit, for most of this recycled garbage from the netrooters,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)


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