Patterico's Pontifications


Propaganda Created, Saved and Supported

Filed under: 2012 Election — Karl @ 9:18 am

[Posted by Karl]

The Obama administration’s latest tactic for selling its jobs bill is to claim it will “support” 400,000 jobs (primarily in government).  Ed Morrissey notes this metric is as unmeasurable as jobs “saved or created” by Obama’s failed stimulus law, which is a good springboard for underscoring a crucial point about the 2012 campaign.

Ace — as he occasionally does — recently buried this key point in a piece on media “fact-checking.”  He noted that the Associated Press criticized Rick Perry for saying in a debate that the stimulus “created zero jobs.” (Indeed, Politifact rated the claim as “Pants On Fire.”)  Ace observed:

Quick question, AP: How does Obama’s “saved or created” figure stack up with Bush’s? Or Clinton’s? Or the first Bush’s?

Trick question, of course, as there are no “saved or created” figures for those Presidents. The “saved or created” figure was invented by Obama, and thusfar has been applied to exactly one president.

When they speak of Bush only creating one million net jobs through his presidency, note they do not add in the number of jobs he might have also “saved.”

This is critical, because all previous presidents were held to account by strict, simple arithmetic: Number of jobs existing at the end of your term minus number of jobs existing at the beginning of your term equals your net job creation (or loss).

It is only President Precious who added in the “or saved” figure, and this can only be estimated, and of course we employ liberal economists’ formulas for guessing how government spending translates to job “saving” for this.

Obama has lost jobs while President. Period. That is the only statistic that has ever before mattered, net jobs created or lost. There is no third category of “saved,” and even if there were, one would have to calculate previous presidents’ “saved or created” numbers (much more generous!) to find an apples-to-apples comparison.

Instead, the AP and Obama and the rest of the media insist on this apples-to-orange comparison.

When Obama came up with the “saved or created” dodge, it wasn’t just people right of center noting it was a hustle.  People like Lawrence Katz, former chief economist for the Clinton Labor Department, called it a “silly exercise” and noted the numbers were inherently inaccurate.  This scam was so widely mocked that the Obama administration gave up officially counting jobs “saved or created” under the stimulus.   However, it was irresistible as a political gimmick; administration officials were back to using it within a matter of days to distract from the abject failure of their economic policies.

And — as the so-called “fact-checking” of Perry shows — the establishment media not only let Team Obama get away with this fantasy unchallenged, but also joins in their propaganda effort.

The reflex on the right may be to shine this on as just another in the seemingly endless examples of the establishment media’s lefty bias.  That would be a grave error.   Given the obvious and prolonged stagnation of our economy during the Obama administration, the premise of Team Obama’s re-elect campaign is the counterfactual: It Could Be Worse.  Hokum about jobs “saved” or “supported” is the very foundation of Team Obama’s campaign strategy.  The GOP must point out early, often and loudly that Obama and the media want Obama to be judged by a bogus standard applied to no other president or candidate in American history.  The GOP should be saying that we have lost 3.3 million net jobs so far under Obama (the truth) with the sort of discipline that the 1992 Clinton campaign told people it was the worst economy of the last 50 years (a lie).  If they don’t, their nominee will be at least halfway to losing the election.


173 Responses to “Propaganda Created, Saved and Supported”

  1. Ding!

    Karl (37b303)

  2. America hates jobs this is why the Gibson Guitar people are looking for a free enterprise country to set up shop in. Good luck Gibson people you might should try China first they seem to appreciate people what make things.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  3. oh and try the moo shu pork if you go I’ve heard good things

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  4. feeeets!

    Karl (37b303)

  5. good morning Mr. Karl!

    I always try to remember that these are the people what borrowed money from the Chinese to pay Americans to destroy their perfectly good cars. For to create jobs, don’t you know.

    If you keep that in mind then it’s easier to see the dirty socialist logic about how they can yimmer yammer about “jobs created or saved” while destroying 3.3 million of them.

    They’re not like you and me.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  6. “… The GOP should be saying…”

    Unfortunately Kar, there is no “GOP voice”, there are only the competing campaign organizations of the gaggle attempting to be the nominee,
    and those competing consultants and strategerists would rather join the OWS crowd than sit-down and co-ordinate with their opposite numbers –
    plus the RNC is less than hopeless, and should have out-sourced their PR to Rush Limbaugh long ago, who does a much better job of it.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (953cfe)

  7. If Gibson is serious about relocating, they should go to where the wood is that caused them the problem: India!
    The work force is (somewhat) fluent in English, and the government (finally) is pro-capitalist.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (953cfe)

  8. empty-suited One
    resorts to race card ass pulls
    scoundrel’s last refuge

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  9. You mean crappyfeet?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  10. From the post:

    called it a “silly exercise” and noted the nubers were inherently inaccurate.


    BfC (2ebea6)

  11. If John McCain had been elected President the recession would have been brief and shallow, and would have ended within 6 months of his inauguration. Unemployment would have never reached 7% and would now be well under 5% and continuing to decline.

    The economy would be robust, the housing market would have recovered and home prices would be holding strong nationwide and increasing in preferred markets. Banks would be lending and industry would be expanding rapidly, exports would be way up and fuel costs would be at 10 year lows.

    The size and scope of government would be reduced to 1985 levels and continuing to shrink. We would have border security, welfare reform, a new flat tax system, and terrorists would tremble at the mention of US armed forces.

    Public employee unions would be illegal, global warming would have replaced Piltdown Man and the Halloween broadcast of War of the Worlds as examples of hoax and mass hysteria.

    ropelight (fa928b)

  12. McCain is a strange man. As president his first priority would’ve been to become giddy with power and bloated with self-importance.

    After that he’d have his little dog Lindsey over for tea and those little cucumber sandwiches Lindsey likes.

    Then maybe a nap.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  13. Even Keynes would be against this. Keynes’ idea was that government spending during recession would “prime the pump” of private enterprise. He never advocated government spending as the endpoint.

    Inigo Montoya (563f77)

  14. damn

    Kevin M (563f77)

  15. Saving a government job isn’t always a plus. Sure, they talk about teachers and firemen, but what they really mean is the guy who plans junkets for administration assistants in the sanitation department.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  16. You also said “shine.” Racist.

    Leviticus (7acba2)

  17. Mccain is a dousche.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  18. There are limits. There really is only so far PR and advert spin can go before the average American just rolls his eyes. The Obama/Pravda/acai berry team is looking more and more like it’s being run by polyester suited used car salesmen than by the once vaunted Axelrod machine.

    elissa (85efac)

  19. 11.If John McCain had been elected President the recession would have been brief and shallow, and would have ended within 6 months of his inauguration. Unemployment would have never reached 7% and would now be well under 5% and continuing to decline

    Sorry, but this is crapola. Unemployment in January, 2009, was 7.8% and it was 8.2% in February, 2009. Unless you can somehow convince me that McCain could have enacted policies before he was even inaugurated, you’re talking out of your ass on this one.

    Chuck Bartowski (4c6c0c)

  20. Okay, maybe I misunderstood ropelight. He was projecting onto a McCain win the way the current media treats Obama’s performance.

    Sorry if I didn’t get that at first, ropelight.

    Chuck Bartowski (4c6c0c)

  21. Think nothing of it Chuck. You took a second look, got it right, and promptly corrected yourself. That more than makes up for the initial error.

    ropelight (fa928b)

  22. Talk is cheap. Everyone knows that Obama’s stimulus failed to help the economy and added tremendously to the deficit.

    It also failed to get a single Republican vote in the House. Maybe we should listen to them again.

    AZ Bob (ffd720)

  23. One of Obama’s problems is that there are enough people around who know some history. Few under 40, I admit, but still some. There is considerable interest in Harding and Coolidge and why the 1920 recession was so short.

    Mike K (9ebddd)

  24. Like I said stay home if Cain is president than your the enemy.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  25. Judas priest, Herman Cain has finally run off his rails.

    The NYSlimes is reporting that Cain said today that part of his immigration policy would be to build an electrified fense along the southern border with Mexico that could kill people trying to enter the nation illegally.

    Oh, but Cain has it all figured out. He’s going to put up a sign on the other side that says “It will kill you — Warning!” in English and Spanish.
    Can you see it now? Dozens of dead Chinese hanging on an electrified fence?

    OK?? So I am volunteering Engineer Cain to personally build that “electrified” fence right smack dab down the center of the Rio Grand River. Does this clown not know about electricity and water? What is he going to do? Electrify just the part that sticks out of the water? What about when the river floods? Or when the river drops for lack of rain? Is he going to put the electricity below water level?

    “Mr. Cain added that he also would consider using military troops “with real guns and real bullets” on the border to stop illegal immigration.”

    OK, so we just shoot them all. Right? Hell, the left is already screaming when Texas puts an illegal to death for a violent rape and murder of a 16 year old Tejano girl. Just think what is going to happen when we have soldiers shooting at anyone who crosses the border.

    Do these candidates ever stop to think about what they are saying?

    retire05 (a9f846)

  26. Didn’t Perry and or Romney do that too you hypocrite?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  27. Putting troops on our borders that is.

    The reason why Omoron is sending troops to uganda to fight the LRA is because they are christian.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  28. DohBiden, are you dense? Do you really think Perry, or even that idiot, Mittens, advocates shooting people when they cross the border? The whole concept is to stop them BEFORE they cross the border. Are you so stupid you don’t understand the system of turning them back before they cross?

    How do you think that is going to fly if President Cain starts ordering our military to shoot mom, dad and kids?

    retire05 (a9f846)

  29. DohBiden, I don’t give a damn about Obama. I already know he’s a moron.

    I care about the stupid statements that come from Republicans. Cain just lost every Republican Hispanic vote he ever hoped to get.

    retire05 (a9f846)

  30. That was a retarded thing for Herman to say… he has this fetish for demagoguing immigration that’s very unattractive.

    I think one or several of his advisors must think that the road to the nomination wends through a nice dark thicket of anti-hispanic bigotry. Or maybe he really believes his own yimmer yammer.

    Still I think he’s the best nominee Team R is liable to come up with this go round.

    [note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  31. More innocent People have died in Iraq and Afghanistan than in Libya or on the streets of Detroit


    I don’t agree with the left just acting like a lefty propagandist.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  32. Look they support putting troops on the borders.

    although Mitt Momney changes his mind more than A hippie changes clothes.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  33. DohBiden, hippies don’t change clothes. Just chants.

    Are you saying that Mittens never changes his mind about issues? Please, don’t try to pass that one off.

    retire05 (a9f846)

  34. I’m saying Mitt Romney changes his mind in other words he flip-flops.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  35. oh. I changed my mind Mr. retire I think I agree that this is a disqualification for Herman. I just don’t get how he thinks.

    But he doesn’t think like any kind of Christian I’ve ever admired.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  36. Your an amnesty shill you two so of course if no one thinks the way you do on illegal aliens they must be destroyed.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  37. I’m not an amnesty shill you can build a wall or whatever but NO you can’t have a wall of excruciating death

    god bless america

    that’s gayer than throwing confetti at a putin pride parade

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  38. I’m not an amnesty shill but no wall.

    Eff right the hell off.

    Those who call Palin dumb will be pissed when in 2016 she orders the bombing of Iran.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  39. happyfeet, I have to wonder, was Cain playing to a group of radical militia members and was trying to recruit their votes?

    It was a stupid thing to say, and will come back to bite him. But it is not the first time Cain has gone after people. He had to meet with Imams to apologize for his comments about Muslims.

    Now, I have my doubts about Muslims, but it’s not something you say out loud when you are running for POTUS. Cain’s remarks are going to be played by every radio station that has a Hispanic audience.

    In 2008, Republicans took 30% of the vote. In 2010, that percentage had grown to 38%. Cain seems to want to make sure it drops to 10%. When you have 21.3 million registered Hispanic voters do you think they can make a difference and put Republicans over the top?

    retire05 (a9f846)

  40. Hispanics are friends not fried food

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  41. “we have lost 3.3 million net jobs so far under Obama”

    Socialism: the gift that keeps on giving.

    When will these leftard morons learn that state directed economies always fail?

    Dave Surls (7c9beb)

  42. And we trust the Times rendition of that discussion why exactly, yes it’s over the top, but why can’t
    there be a clearinghouse, like there was with Liberty Island, and to a lesser extent, the Freedom Tower down here, instead there is no e-verify, or significant employee sanctions, the stick in Simpson/Mazzoli, that was replaced by the carrot
    of amnesty, and that was the promise in the 1980

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  43. they have quotes Mr. cormac

    In his remarks on Saturday, Mr. Cain appeared to go a step further. Speaking to a rally sponsored by the Roane County Tea Party, Mr. Cain said that part of his plan would be to “secure the border for real” with a fence.

    “It’s going to be 20 feet high. It’s going to have barbed wire on the top. It’s going to be electrified. And there’s going to be a sign on the other side saying, ‘It will kill you — Warning.’” At an earlier rally, on the campus of Tennessee Tech University in Cookeville, Tenn., he added that the sign would be written “in English and in Spanish.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  44. Maybe pikachu, but the ‘appeared’ preface, makes me
    doubt it, I’d like to see the tape first, unedited, if you don’t mind.

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  45. Cain spoke the truth about muslims so of course the PC pieces of shat are upset.

    Oh please Crappyfeet you never liked Cain so stfu.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  46. can’t say I blame you

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  47. Cain stole a muslims lunch money so Pikachu is butthurt.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  48. Mr. Biden I am mercurial like the banshee and capricious like the chupacabra. My likes and dislikes … they are subject to change from moment to moment.

    It’s a thing.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  49. The Palin cultists are idiots.

    ZOMG Perry is to blame for Palin not running!!!Eleventyone!!!

    DohBiden (d54602)

  50. retire05

    cains not a candidate, and he should be somewhat careful talking about killing 30 to 40% of the American populace epecially in tennessee, where spent shell casings are as common as leaves

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  51. Right wehatever, this is the same Politifacts (St. Peterburg Times) that said that ‘death panels, are
    a lie, despite the fact that Sibelius is discouraging the most obvious detection methods for breast and prostate cancer,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  52. EricPW, Cain should learn to temper his words with a little common sense. If Rick Perry has said something like Cain did, it would be plastered across the front pages of every newspaper in the U.S. tomorrow morning.

    Cain said he would put the sign in English and Spanish. Since there are many nationalities sneaking across our borders illegally, that is going to be taken as a direct smear against Hispanics. I guess Cain is so uninformed that he doesn’t know that Chinese are also coming across the border.

    A guy I know that owns a large ranch in Kennedy County, Texas and leases it out for deer season. He told me the last “capture” the Border Patrol made on his place were of 10 Chinese being lead by a Mexican cayote.

    Cain’s got to go almost three more months before the first primary. If he keeps on making statements like he did today, he will implode long before the first primary.

    retire05 (a9f846)

  53. retire05

    He can’t implode – he’s not running – but i agree with you totally

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  54. … to distract from the abject failure of their economic policies

    What ? “abject failure” ? Try “EPIC FAILURE”

    #OccupyAnthonyWeinersShorts (d1c681)

  55. Cains gaffe about lethal fences just made the front page of the Houston Chronicle

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  56. Where exactly did Cain talk about killing 30-40 percent of the populace? Or, did epwj just make up something else?

    JD (68ff46)

  57. Killing 30-40 percent of the American populace ….

    Cite, please ….

    JD (6d8a47)

  58. These concerned voters are liars JD.

    Nice to know the American Nazi Party sides with the occupy wall street protesters so can you please stop calling them the american nazi party far-right.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  59. EPWJ is the sole possessor of irrefutable proof that Herman Cain — the officially announced candidate that simultaneously (according to Eric) is not running — has located all 2 million of the Jews that are living blissfully unmolested lives in Iran . . .

    . . . and plans to kill them.

    Icy (still a Texan -- until the end of the month) (6e1416)

  60. “Romney is not a conservative. He’s not, folks. You can argue with me all day long on that, but he isn’t… This isn’t personal, not with what country faces and so forth. I like him very much. I’ve spent some social time with him. He’s a fine guy. He’s very nice gentleman. He is a gentleman. But he’s not a conservative.”

    – Rush Limbugh

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  61. _______________________________________________

    “Mr. Cain added that he also would consider using military troops “with real guns and real bullets” on the border to stop illegal immigration.”

    That way of speaking comes off as overly flippant, even more so in this age of political correctness run amok. I have mixed feelings about his comments, but mainly at how they affect him — and those around him (ie, people on the right, the Republican Party) — tactically. IOW, when even the US military in today’s era is into a touchy-feely approach to dealing with ruthless fanatics like Nidal Hasan, the shoot-from-the-hip verbiage of someone like Herman Cain will make a lot of people wince or grimace.

    Cain also reveals a bit of tactical clumsiness, because he could have easily expressed a resolve about the issue of illegal immigration without sounding so intemperate or, more importantly, sounding so technically sloppy—meaning a desire to secure the border in a way (ie, hot wiring a fence) that isn’t even more overblown than what the East German Communists were infamous for with their Berlin Wall.

    A person who has a good political philosophy — and Cain pretty much has that — but who doesn’t also have a good sense of what makes for good or poor tactics is analogous to a three-legged chair. That’s why I’m always leery of political purists, of people who see the world too much in a my-way-or-the-highway manner.

    Mark (411533)

  62. ________________________________________________

    that’s gayer than throwing confetti at a putin pride parade

    And, happyfeet, you do have to admit that on more than a few occasions you’ve favored using “gayer” in a pejorative way. See, even you share some of the negative gut reactions many folks have towards homosexuality, certainly when it involves males. That’s why you shouldn’t be so resentful, surprised or puzzled when people express disquiet about issues like same-sex marriage.

    Mark (411533)

  63. Mark,

    Off the cuff, do you think cain is really serious about running?

    Do you think like Ace thinks shifting the tax burden while not changing it – is going to do anything?

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  64. Epwj – can you cite your claim that Cain discussed the killing of 30-40 percent of the American populace?

    How can you claim that a candidate that has declared his candidacy for office, has won a straw poll, and has led in other polls, not a candidate?

    Icy Texan was spot on in noting how you should stick to counting jooooooooooos.

    JD (6d8a47)

  65. Oh, I think Cain is serious about seeking office. I am just not sure which one. Most likely the VP slot, but I think he thought he would be Romney’s pick for that office but with recent events, more than likely, Romney would pick Christie.

    But saying you are going to hot-wire a fence down the middle of a river is plain stupidity. And saying you are going to put up a sign in English and Spanish screams bigotry to America’s fastest growing ethnic population. The idea is to promote conservative ways to Hispanics and have them vote Republican, not drive them like cattle to the DNC.

    The fence has become a BIG issue since Rick Perry got in the race. But no one has a realistic solution except Rick Perry and at one time, Rick Santorum with his S. 3564. “Fry them all, shoot them all” is not a solution. It is a knee jerk reation to a problem you have no solution for.

    Republicans need to learn a little history. This same kind of fear mongering was used by the Democrats with the Irish and the Italians when they were migrating to the U.S. in huge numbers. The Democrats convinced the Irish and Italians that the Republicans were all evil robber-barons that just got richer off their backs. So for generations, we have had enclaves of Irish and Italians who vote almost exclusively Democrat, New York, Boston, St. Louis.

    If Cain wants to be a real contender, he is going to have to put a control switch on his mouth. He can’t just go around saying stupid stuff and then back-tracking saying “America needs to learn to take a joke.” The problem is he is a political novice and can’t just operate, as a candidate, like he did as a CEO of a private company or as a talk show host where he could say whatever the hell popped in his mind.

    retire05 (a9f846)

  66. Cain was just joshing Mr. retire

    Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain said Sunday he wasn’t being serious when he told a crowd this weekend that he wants an electric fence to span the border along Mexico.

    Appearing on NBC’s Meet the Press with David Gregory, Cain said, “That’s a joke, David … That’s not a serious plan.”

    “I’ve also said America needs to get a sense of humor, Cain added.

    okey-dokey I’m back on board the cain train

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  67. happyfeet, it seems Cain resorts to the “America needs to get a sense of humor” excuse whenever he sticks his foot in his mouth. That is not an excuse. We are not voting for Comedian In Chief.

    retire05 (a9f846)

  68. but he did it really really fast

    that counts for something

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  69. happyfeet, so what that he walked back his statement a day later? He shot off his mouth to a bunch of people in Tennessee who probably have not heard his “It was only a joke” comments this morning.

    Putting your foot in your mouth and then having the only comeback being “America needs to get a sense of humor” is not a excuse. And it’s not the first time he has used this excuse.

    Cain seems better suited to the Red Neck Comedy Tour than than he does to the office of President.

    retire05 (a9f846)

  70. Bachmann still hasn’t even acknowledged how loopy her deranged tardasil rantings were

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  71. and Perry has so far been too cowardly to denounce his mormon-hating preacher pal Jeffress, way after it became clear that he never should have had anything to do with that bigot

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  72. and I can’t vote for Romney

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  73. Perhaps the geniuses at Solyndra could design & build a self-sustaining off-the-grid solar-powered border fence. And every fence post would be topped with a bust of The Lightworker which would be rigged to bow in the direction of Mexico, followed by a recording of Teh One’s voice saying “uh, um, err, sorry that we, uh, had to, um, fry ya.”

    Icy (still a Texan -- until the end of the month) (6e1416)

  74. This is sad news. Even though we don’t “know” each other, it always made me happy to know you were close by. Where are you going, Icy?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  75. happyfeet, I am still waiting on you to denounce the nasty things said by DohBiden since you are on the same website as he is.

    Tell me, if Jeffress said “America needs to get a sense of humor”, would you accept that excuse?

    retire05 (a9f846)

  76. DohBiden has a way of expressing himself what takes a bit of decoding sometimes Mr. retire

    but his heart’s in the right place

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  77. Are people starting to make excuses for Cain now? He said the fence electrified more than once.

    He was playing to the Tennessee crowd for sure, but now its just a joke. what other “jokes” does he have?

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  78. Won’t fly, happyfeet.

    DohBiden posts stupid stuff on this website.
    You also post on this website.
    You must distance yourself from the stupid stuff said by DohBiden and personally refute it.

    See how that works?

    retire05 (a9f846)

  79. he also talked about bullets why?

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  80. retireo5

    did JD ask Happy for a citation?

    Ask JD if he has had his appointment with the FBI concerning his “evidence” that he has in the Murkowski case

    JD, the office and the DA are waiting for you BTW – just to give you a heads up there

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  81. that’s a lot of work Mr. retire

    maybe after my omelette

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  82. Mr. Johnson sometimes you can be antagonistic

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  83. Do you still have proof Palin is corrupt Eric?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  84. Retires use of the word redneck is bigoted but hey since he is a moderate he gets away with that.

    Retire05 has no right to complain about stupid statements after what he said about rednecks.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  85. Happy,

    I’m not, but you can ask JD that question, I dont like getting dragged into FBI inquiries about alaska political corruption so its up to those who do say they have the evidence to go forward with it – its a civic duty and the withholding of it or the claiming of such evidence when they have first hand knowledge that they have none can cause an individual considerable trouble.

    Doh, i pointed out the public records of the state of alaska – the very public records. My feelings are known and I promised not to talk about it anymore

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  86. Yes because Leta Green is not corrupt while she takes money from Veco whilst calling out Palin for doing the same thing.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  87. The FBI agent, like the one that had a ‘very personal’ connection to William Allen, the chief witness against Sen. Stevens,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  88. The lesson is clear though, you can pay off your mistresses family, solicit prostitutes, take the Appalachian trail to Argentina, and that will not
    force you out, a head of time, in fact, your local
    allies will back you, you try to point out an administration’s corruption, you might as well hang yourself, because you are on your own,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  89. Ian

    If you look at that whole case – the whole “political corruption probe” for goodness sake there were no large sums of money, it mostly had to do with is considered normal lobbying in other states, they really netted no one but investigated – only Republicans…

    instigated during the “Clinton” administration and was excerbated by the shenanighans of the Exxon Valdez jury tampering that as going on and why to this date Exxon refuses to pay much of that settlement – rightly so

    but the fact that several peope here “had” the absolute evidence is interesting since none of them ever lived or even visited alaska

    but stranger things have happened

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  90. Yes because there is no corruption in alaska except when Murkowski says so.


    DohBiden (d54602)

  91. And they are usually the ones who never have a “citation”, do deliberately lie and distort what I and anyone they oppose have said and never ever offer a “citation” of their own, and when others either say the same thing never seem to ask them for their proof.

    Too Funny especially since one is on record for saying this is really his blog

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  92. doh

    please, now please submit your evidence to the nearest local FBI office on Murkowski’s corruption, honestly – its a high civic duty the highest and I will raise my hat and a beer to you

    you need to go immediately Monday morning, or call the hotline.

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  93. DohBiden, take a reading comprehension course. The Red Neck Comedy Tour is a real show. I didn’t slam red necks. How sad that your I.Q. is smaller than your shoe size.

    retire05 (a9f846)

  94. Yes my I.Q. is the same as my shoe size……… least I don’t smear Rick Perry as racist like you do to cain.

    EricPW your a murkowskibot so no matter what proof i give you won’t accept it.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  95. I never said Cain was a “racist.” It’s not a smear I throw out lightly. Was he an idiot that let his mouth overload his ass? Yep. Now he wants to walk back his comments with his standard “America needs to get a sense of humor” excuse. That excuse expired its shelf life the last time he used it.

    retire05 (a9f846)

  96. Doh

    i dont support Murkowski and actually wish Palin would have run against her and said so here on this blog MORE THAN ONCE

    So I’m not going to let you avoid the argument that I’m a supporter to cover up the fact that you dont have any evidence do you?

    Seriously, do you have ANY evidence that Murkowski took money property in exchange for her political actions?

    Her voting record and amendments are pretty much the same as everyone elses

    but call the FBI – maybe then sarah will get into the race if murkowski is under investigation again

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  97. ______________________________________________

    Off the cuff, do you think cain is really serious about running?

    Eric, I don’t know why you or anyone else would believe otherwise. I’m sure he has both a strong sense of self (iow, a firm ego) and a sincere interest in seeing this society move in a socio-economic direction that satisfies his preferences, so I’d be surprised if he’s not in it for the win.

    However, assuming his comments about installing an electrified fence along the border were said in front of a crowd of supporters and NOT in a semi-private location, in an off-the-cuff, jokey manner — even more so if he’s now claiming his words weren’t to be taken seriously — that shows a potential major weakness on his part.

    I say that even more so because a lot of the electorate in today’s society — having been raised in an atmosphere that incubates (thanks in part to academia and the media) a situation where various non-conformists will feel comfortable enough to, again, go forward with committing a Fort Hood massacre — is far likelier to be totally ass backwards in who they give or don’t give a thousand benefits of the doubt to.

    Rick Perry gave a hint of feeding into that, but from the wrong side of the spectrum, meaning he was playing into the hands of the left. That’s assuming he truly sympathizes with the right and doesn’t fall for the notion that a lack of sincere compassion (or “heart”) hamstrings the conservative side of the ideological divide.

    Cain, on the other hand, gives a hint of his both feeding into the PC-mindset of the 21st century, and, at the same time, also not being wary enough about how excessive political correctness — as easily exploited by the left — nonetheless influences a lot of “sophisticated” people. IOW, if his remarks about cracking down on the porous border in a gun-slinging way were made in jest — perhaps to coyly play into the stereotype that Perry (consciously or unconsciously) evoked recently — but also to ingratiate himself with those conservatives most offended by what Perry was alluding to, he’ll end up alienating a large cross section of people, from the right, center and, of course, left.

    Mark (411533)

  98. retire05

    its the MO of several on this “conservative” blog to distort, walkback, outright lie, distort, accuse, distort, lie, accuse, repeat to discredit anything they cannot defend, which is alot.

    they are good people but they just are waay to wired to blog – they take wide swipes at people they dont know, they dont act this way at home and would cringe if loved ones saw their conduct

    Cain mention all throughout Tennessee about Electrified fences troops and bullets, this was a deliberate thing. now the excuses are coming through but it wasnt a joke

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  99. he said it at TWO stops in Tennessee on the same day

    that’s not a big deal and he wasn’t serious</

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  100. did I break?

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  101. no all good

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  102. Mark

    google this:

    Mark the local stations are asking for footage of the Jackson Tn rally where he also is “said” to have amde those comments and added something more – which until I see footage – am not repeating

    If this is true then its verified at three stops he made comments about killing Mexicans and US citizens who look mexican

    Not good, not good at all

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  103. Happy

    The stations here are asking for audio as people are calling in saying Cain said it in Jackson as well – but Jackson is a Democrat Haven so i would not be all surprized that its just trouble making

    but he did say it two places and he’s not RETRACTING his statements

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  104. Okay now he is saying it was a joke and he wasnt serious

    but where is the langage decrying the use of electric fences and lethal force against people?

    just using the Cain standard against Perry painting over a rock in 1984

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  105. I think he retracted when he said he was just kidding

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  106. okay now there are reports he has been repeating the statement with callers and has discussed this on his talk show in the past

    uh boy, you know when this clown is gone – whoever it is Perry, santorum, romney is going to be left with Republicans want to kill mexicans meme

    thanks Mr talk show host for the 4% increase in support for Obama

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  107. Happy

    2 rallys

    2 phone calls with tea Party chiefs

    What do we do when the talk show transcripts show up?

    What if more audio and video make an appearance?

    I remember a senatorial campaign in virginia being upended by a very neutral 3 second gaffe – this is a serious thing – its no fun to be Perried now is it – i wonder if the media would be backing down and accepting – I was kidding – you dont kid about killing people

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  108. ‘sharks with laser beams, throw me a bone, here people’

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  109. Romney is no slouch at demagoguing the illegal immigrants – he’d much rather talk about that than how he designed obamacare or his lust for carbon dioxide molecule blood

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  110. Dude troops on the borders Perry and Romney want to use lethal force against the troops………….oh wait they don’t mean it so it is ok.

    So eric you wanted a tax and spender to run against Murkowski.

    Um if any Dumbshat is stupid to enough to believe we’re anti-mexican when we have Mccain Romney and Perry on our team than they deserve the hyperinflation they get.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  111. Duh

    I wanted her to run and lose – which she would have and badly at that – she had no chance of winning

    We have a strong hispanic heritage in the USA, the hyperboyle about illegal immigration gives convienent coverage from what Perry and Santorum are discussing which is the overspending

    Other candidates are running on the illegal immigration, Obamacare – which Perry and Santorum know is up to the senate and the house to pass the appropriate laws

    perry is concentrating on removing barriers to production of all goods, and lowering the manufacturing and distribuion costs of food by reducing the price of oil by just the mere threat of us drilling for reals – rmemeber if the world market thinks for sure that the US is serious about drilling the price of oil and natural gas tanks – just like when James Watt and reagan opened up the gulf of Mexico to oil exploration in 1982 by 1986 the price of oil fell 300%

    no one anywhere wants to pay 100 bucks a barrel

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  112. ________________________________________________

    okay now there are reports he has been repeating the statement with callers and has discussed this on his talk show in the past

    And he also said the same thing at recent campaign rallies — in front of many people — but now is saying such comments were made in jest?

    If so, this misstep appears to be the flip side of the “heartless” gaffe made by Perry. But Perry inflamed mainly the right while getting a tiny bit of “oh, he sometimes can sound just like one of us” reaction from the left.

    By contrast, Cain could easily end up in a no-win situation, where he stabs himself in the foot in the eyes of both sides of the ideological spectrum.

    If he felt his original remarks were too cowboy-ish or cowboy-ish enough that he now feels a need to recant them, then why the hell didn’t he do a better job of crafting his viewpoint in the first place?! Even more so since the core of his opinion is valid and rarely articulated in an open forum. After all, this nation has been treating illegal immigration in a la-de-dah, big-mommy, we’re-suckers way for decades. So it’s not like the “Operation Wetback” policy — and lack of political correctness — of the 1950s occurred or existed just a few years ago.

    Why Cain has allowed himself to be so clumsy in this matter is puzzling and hardly reassuring. I say that because, again, modern society is awash with kum-bah-wah, do-gooder sentiment — insincere and shallow though it may be — so the benefit of the doubt goes generally in one direction only (ie, to the left). So this appears to be a major d’oh moment for Cain.

    Mark (411533)

  113. Mark

    its not a misstep, its a dangerous mindset for someone who wants to run the country

    how many years has he been saying this – t least 4, and is now currently repeating it?

    but the excuses will be made – but I’m afraid it taints the tea Parties and the Republican nominee with cheap shots from the left

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  114. Gotta love the idiots who smear Cain because of Rick Perry they will not vote for him if he wins the nom and will be joining the enemys camp.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  115. Please you pigs won’t vote for Cain no matter how tame his stance on illegals is.

    You pieces of crap care more about Perry’s ego.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  116. Mark, you will find that those who are excusing Cain’s remarks (made multiple times over the course of years) are not so forgiving about Perry’s “heartless” remark. These are people who live off ten second sound bites, never bothering to look at the issue itself.

    Not once did they defend Perry, point out that at least 12 other states have in-state tuition for the children of illegals, that Romney used the same smear in a video commercial against Huckabee, and the same claim of “soft on illegals” against Guilianai all the while Romney is employing illegal immigrants to manicure his lawn and clean his tennis courts.

    Perry said he should not have put his statement in those words. Was that accepted? No. But now they seem to think that Cain can just walk back a comment he has made many times, with a “it’s just a joke, people” excuse he has used before when it came to Muslims and gays.

    People need to understand the reality of illegal immigration. The federal government is NOT going to deport them, so border state governors, and their legislatures, have to decide what to do with them. Is it better to let those kids seek a university education or be recruited by the drug cartels while they are still in high school as was reported by the San Antonio paper? My guess is that most people, if given a choice between making $1,000/wk working or making that money by being a mule for the drug cartels and risk going to jail, they would choose the legitimate way to earn a living.

    And please, don’t tell me that illegals can’t get a job. That is one of the reasons the feds hand out ITIN numbers. It seems the feds say they can’t work, but allowing them to work a job the feds claim they can’t get, doesn’t mind taking their taxes.

    retire05 (a9f846)

  117. Eh if illegals stay away from the fence they won’t be elctrocuted.

    Btw you POS muslims use their mosques for terror…………………go ahead you fascist moron try and get me banned.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  118. In state intuition for illegals is wrong no matter what state does it you piece of trash.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  119. _________________________________________________

    its a dangerous mindset for someone who wants to run the country

    I don’t think it’s dangerous as much as it’s tactically clumsy and potentially self-defeating. However, I’d raise it to the “dangerous” level if I learned that Cain had been or was a great admirer of an ultra-rightwing leader or figurehead in the way that Obama has been a great admirer of an ultra-leftwing preacher, namely Jeremiah Wright, if not other like-minded extremists.

    Cain was born in 1945, so he was around 9 years old during the era of “Operation Wetback.” That was when the government not only used — and rather officially, no less — a non-PC word like “wetback,” it also rounded up tens of thousands of people, including some who were merely suspected of being in the US illegally, and forcibly moved them out of this country.

    Since we’ve gone from the extreme of the 1950s to the extreme of today, I hardly believe that someone like Cain can be so-called dangerous, even if extremists themselves (virtually all on the left) believe otherwise.

    Mark (411533)

  120. Good call Mike

    I think Ron Paul is an admirer of ultra-right wingers.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  121. post #118… excuses, excuses…

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  122. Post #123…Hell has frozen over.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  123. ________________________________________________

    But now they seem to think that Cain can just walk back a comment he has made many time

    What’s even more exasperating about the flippant sounding comments of Cain is that he and others rarely or never say anything along the lines of:

    Mexico has been a socio-economic mess for generations. It never seems to evolve beyond a level of perennial dysfunction, crime, corruption and excessive poverty. Is it therefore not wise and reasonable to fear that if more of the US becomes more like Mexico, that this society too won’t end up in similarly bad shape?

    Some may proclaim “but America is a vastly different dynamic! It’s exceptional and special, and all those who enter its borders are imbued with — and lifted by — that specialness!”

    I’d buy into that if I didn’t witness or read about things like the following, per below. Moreover, do politicians, certainly from the left but also even from the right, ever openly and publicly cite and worry about the gist of the following?:

    The Latino Education Crisis: The Consequences of Failed Social Policies, by Patricia Gandara and Frances Contreras, offers an unflinching portrait of Hispanics’ educational problems and reaches a scary conclusion about those problems’ costs. The book’s analysis is all the more surprising given that its authors are liberals committed to bilingual education, affirmative action, and the usual slate of left-wing social programs. Yet Gandara and Contreras, education professors at UCLA and the University of Washington, respectively, are more honest than many conservative open-borders advocates in acknowledging the bad news about Hispanic assimilation.

    Hispanics are underachieving academically at an alarming rate, the authors report. Though second- and third-generation Hispanics make some progress over their first-generation parents, that progress starts from an extremely low base and stalls out at high school completion. High school drop-out rates — around 50 percent — remain steady across generations. Latinos’ grades and test scores are at the bottom of the bell curve. The very low share of college degrees earned by Latinos has not changed for more than two decades. Currently only one in ten Latinos has a college degree.

    Federal, state, and local governments have already spent billions trying to overcome the Latino education gap, with little success. That gap persists in part because of the stigma against academic achievement among many Latino males.

    Mark (411533)

  124. DRJ, my company is transferring me back to Southern Arizona, which is home to me; my parents live there. I’ve enjoyed my time here in Midland/Odessa, and am proud that — at least for awhile — I was a Texan. :)

    Icy (still a Texan -- until the end of the month) (6e1416)

  125. Mark, I am not sure where Gandera and Contrerus are getting their stats from. According to the National Center for Education Statistics, California drop out rates for 2007 were:

    white – 3.5%
    black – 10%
    Hispanic – 6.8%

    And their stats, if applied nationally, are way, way off. I don’t think there has been a huge uptick in high school drop out rates in the last four years.

    For example; high school drop out rates in Texas are all below national rates:

    white – 1.95
    black – 5.8%
    Hispanic – 5.6%

    And what would be the percentage of whites and blacks that have college degrees? If you are going to make comparisons, you have to give the entire picture. And is it right to compare college degress across all generations? Hell, when my mother went to college, she was the first one in her family, and the only one of six kids, to do so. She was the exception, not the norm, for her generation.

    retire05 (a9f846)

  126. So, epwj just made up that claim that Cain wants to kill 30-40 percents of the American populace. I see he also trotted out the BS call the FBI meme, but never has done so himself when he accused Cain of a felony death threat (only Allah know how’s he would get the vapors if Cain threatened to throw a pebble at epwj). He also failed to do so when he accused Palin of a felony for holding a no-show six figure job.

    Not that it matters, but could you point us to where someone claimed to own this blog, a person not named PaTterico, as you claimed above?

    JD (af7a3a)

  127. Cain’s “electrified fence”…
    As someone from the food-service industry, perhaps he plans to fabricate it as one big-ass, long, “bug zapper”?
    It’s a sanitation issue!
    Keep out those pesky Mexican Fruit Flies, etc.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (4fd205)

  128. If this is true then its verified at three stops he made comments about killing Mexicans and US citizens who look mexican
    Not good, not good at all

    Comment by EricPWJohnson — 10/16/2011 @ 9:02 am

    — No, you’re not, but we keep hoping that you’ll get better.
    When, exactly, did Cain say that he wanted to kill “US citizens that look like Mexicans”? Ya know, for all of his silliness, straying off-topic, and occasional unpleasantness, at least DohBiden does not tell outright shameless lies the way you do.

    Icy (still a Texan -- until the end of the month) (6e1416)

  129. HS Dropout rates in CA….
    A quick search turned up this data from 2008:

    “(07-16) 16:23 PDT SACRAMENTO — California’s first true count of high school dropouts shows that one in four kids quit school last year – 127,292 – which is far more than state educators estimated before they began using a new student-tracking system…”

    It is believed that the drop-out rate for Hispanics within the CA systems is around 40%.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (4fd205)

  130. be cool stay in school

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  131. _______________________________________________

    Mark, I am not sure where Gandera and Contrerus are getting their stats from.

    retire05, yikes, I hope you’re not trying to be skeptical about the findings — long noted and long observed by many people in general — of researchers like those two.

    However, one can suspect that because they’re both of the left, they somehow want to put a spin on things in order to make it easier for larger cross sections of Latino America to join the woe-is-me Pity Party. IOW, it’s easy to suspect the two women as being the types who’d want to portray things as being more negative than they truly are, because various leftists love embracing a victim (of course, as pre-determined by liberal sentiment) or love being victims themselves. In a way — and for the sake of the US now and in the future — I wish that were the case.

    Now that I think of it, some may say that it actually should be researchers of a rightist bent who will want to cast an unfair or overly negative light on the academic achievement rates of Latino kids–because conservatives tend to be “heartless.” But in the context of the study and researchers in question, that doesn’t appear to fit the scenario.

    Mark (411533)

  132. verified at three stops he made comments about killing Mexicans and US citizens who look mexican

    Again, your inability to cite a specific claim shows how dishonest you are. You cannot cite it, because Cain did not say it.

    JD (318f81)

  133. it was just two stops and you know what sometimes when you get off a train in tennessee there just ain’t no tellin what’s gonna come out of your mouth

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  134. Feets, sometimes you try so hard at humor (or at least I would hope that is what you’re trying to do) that you do it so “straight” that it borders on bigotry – and occasionally crosses that border.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (4fd205)

  135. ______________________________________________

    It is believed that the drop-out rate for Hispanics within the CA systems is around 40%.

    And what adds insult to injury — or makes a bad situation far more self-destructive — is that a high percentage of Latino America is quite staunchly and mindlessly of the left and pro-Democrat Party.

    The dynamics of the political landscape in urban America (where a large number of Latinos reside) is pretty much in sync with that of Mexico or so many other societies that seem to be always reeling from problem to problem and, at the same time, acting (inadvertently or purposefully) like their own worse enemy.

    Truly a vicious cycle.

    Mark (411533)

  136. Crappymeat is a Whore.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  137. Icy,

    It’s always good to go home, especially to a great state like Arizona.

    DRj (a83b8b)

  138. Doctor J! The Philly 76er’s rule!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  139. whoops

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  140. ________________________________________________

    According to the National Center for Education Statistics, California drop out rates for 2007 were:

    Your mentioning official statistics — from government sources or also private organizations — reminds me of a time when I believed it was reasonable to assume official data could be taken at face value. That one could be somewhat confident about the reliability and accuracy of formal statistics.

    I recall believing those who treated the release of official info with a lot of skepticism were being overly suspicious, if not a bit paranoid. Then I came upon the following information not long ago and couldn’t help going “huh?!” and scratching my head…



    Source: International Monetary Fund

    Mark (411533)

  141. Mark, the urban sickness of today’s Progressives is no better illustrated than by the fact that Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown signed into law 760 bills presentd him this year by the CA Legislature, and only – ONLY – vetoed 128.
    Like the joke about the TX Legislature meeting 2-days every 140-years, it would be entirely appropriate,
    seeing the destruction wrought upon the CA economy and society by the half-.ssed ideas of our legislature,
    that the Governor should have reversed those numbers; signing 128, and vetoing 760!
    We would be a much better state if he had done so.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (4fd205)

  142. I do not understand this charge of bigotry Mr. Drew

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  143. Comment by Mark — 10/16/2011 @ 11:52 am

    Those numbers are probably accurate, if the sample is restricted to pure-blood Castilians.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (4fd205)

  144. 144- Why am I not surprised.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (4fd205)

  145. is it a Tennessee thing?

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  146. but I am still thirsty

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  147. You cant actually get electrocuted with a fence unless your wang is on it.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  148. Would you care to demonstrate that principle?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (4fd205)

  149. ok new rule: if you call someone a bigot you have to say why

    ok go

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  150. Those numbers are probably accurate, if the sample is restricted to pure-blood Castilians.


    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  151. unless your wang is on the electric fence.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  152. why not ask the Mythbusters?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  153. Mark, the unemployment rate in Mexico is currently under 5%. The Sacramento Bee reported that 300,000 illegals have left California to return to Mexico where they feel they can find jobs.

    What is surprising about the Sacromento Bee report is how many illegals filed income tax returns using ITIN numbers. So much for saying that they can’t get jobs and don’t pay taxes.

    I am not a supporter of illegal immigration OR open borders. But there is a difference between wanting the feds to enforce our laws, and the reality on the ground. And that reality is that the feds are not going to deport illegals who commit no other crime but coming here illegally.

    So, if the feds are not going to deport them, and the states are left with the burden of educating them through the 12 grade, what do you suggest the states do, that is within their jurisdicctional powers to deal with people the feds are not going to deport?

    But the bottom line is that what Herman Cain said was [to quote Cain himself] “insensitive” and out of line. Now he’s trying to walk it back by chaulking it up to just being a joke. His comments were the kind that would have gotten any white candidate raked over the coals. Why should he, who claims he is not running on his skin tone, get a pass?

    retire05 (a9f846)

  154. Haiku,

    Heh. That was me at 139.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  155. Well, it was just something he said in TN, after all.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (4fd205)

  156. yes I agree

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  157. Puts him in the same class with Nasty Nancy and Debbie Mayonaise Head.

    ropelight (187cf7)

  158. Michael Moore Urges Police to join Occupy Wall Street …

    I agree with Moore
    wood shampoos all around, please
    let it rain, rain, rain

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  159. Icy, welcome back to sunny, southern Arizona.

    PatAZ (c65c00)

  160. _______________________________________________

    Mark, the unemployment rate in Mexico is currently under 5%.

    retire05, I might accept that figure if it applies to a few select years over the past 30, or certainly for right around now in late 2011. For instance, I know all economies throughout the world go through natural up-and-down cycles and some emerging (or quasi-Third-World) nations such as Brazil or India currently are actually experiencing an upswing. But for the official statistics in general to indicate Mexico has had mostly enviable unemployment rates since 1980?! Rates that even some boutique-northern European societies would be proud of?

    Something isn’t right there. Those overall figures don’t seem to pass the smell test to me.

    Another thing: there obviously is diversity, in terms of socioeconomic status, in any community, the Latino-American one included. So fortunately X percentage of people of, for example, Mexican descent will not only do well in the US, they’ll even thrive and help boost the nation.

    Similarly, there is a percentage of people in Mexico who are high achievers, well educated, gifted or certainly hard workers. So it’s not a matter of being overly simplistic and saying that EVERYONE of a certain background will bog down a society. Instead it’s a matter of the overall social-economic-political patterns of a society or community in the long run that I’m focusing on.

    I recall a very liberal friend of mine (she voted like clockwork for leftists/Democrats on the ballot) who many years ago (back in the early 1980s) mentioned a conversation she had with a co-worker of Latino descent in their office. She said she got into a discussion with him one day about the inability of larger numbers of Latinos to move up the socioeconomic ladder. He bought into the woe-is-me argument that RACISM! and BIGOTRY! were the main reasons the Latino community didn’t fare better in America. She countered with a POV based on things like the excerpts I posted above about the way education is treated by too many Latinos.

    Over 25 years later the situation hasn’t changed much. For that matter, the type of debate I’ve described above was occurring back in the 1960s—during the height of the “War on Poverty,” pro-civil-rights era. So one can say that even more than 40 years later the situation still hasn’t changed as much as various people (certainly do-gooder activists) would have hoped or wanted.

    Mark (411533)

  161. Thanks Pat!

    Back in the land of Che Grijalva, the congressman that makes Jesse Jackson Jr & Keith Ellison look like members of the far right.


    Icy (f2895f)

  162. Why do the LSM not speak about the nazis and communists aligning with the OWS.

    And why don’t the OWS protesters protest Paulie Krugman?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  163. Hokum about jobs “saved” or “supported” is the very foundation of Team Obama’s campaign strategy.

    General Hokum… isn’t he the leader of President Downgrade’s campaign planning for 2012? I’m pretty sure he’s heavily involved somehow, or so someone around me was saying…

    IgotBupkis, President, United Anarchist Society (c9dcd8)

  164. :roll: If the OWS protesters said Krugman deserves his riches I would not be surprised.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  165. So if the left are blaming the economic problems on rich people what will they do when everyone has to pay $875,000 for bread?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  166. sonuds a lot like the Christian social party of austria whcih were far-left these OWS dudes.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  167. which were far left like these OWS dudes.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  168. Comment by DohBiden — 10/16/2011 @ 9:10 pm

    Their look of dunderment at what bread will cost will be mirrored by their great relief that the cost of ammo is even more, thereby disarming all of the knuckledraggers on the Right – except for those of us who, like the squirrel preparing for winter, stockpiled supplies (including the stuff that allows us to make bread – and the stuff that allows us to clear the streets of “zombies”).

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (35c310)

  169. Soap is to the OWSers like garlic is to a vampire.

    JD (36b0e9)

  170. Talk is cheap.

    Not always. Go find a cop and say to him:

    Hey, Flatfoot! You’re one stupid, ugly hunk of pork, aren’t cha…? You think you’re so big and tough, right? You can’t do jack to me, HA-HA!!

    I predict you will find such talk to be quite costly.


    IgotBupkis, President, United Anarchist Society (c9dcd8)

  171. Hey, just wondering: Why is it that America is the ONLY NATION IN THE WORLD that can’t actually be allowed to defend its borders or even to shoot people trying to illegally cross them?

    Seems kinda odd that people who argue against American Exceptionalism think there are a whole array of insanely self-destructive exceptions that should apply.

    Jus’ wonderin…

    IgotBupkis, President, United Anarchist Society (c9dcd8)

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