Patterico's Pontifications

10/10/2011

Rick Perry’s Iowa tune-up and media strategy

Filed under: 2012 Election — Karl @ 2:03 am



[Posted by Karl]

The NYT’s Jeff Zeleny reports on Rick Perry trying to get back on message with retail politics in Iowa:

Gov. Rick Perry of Texas struggled through his first three debates, so his aides have staged practice sessions, complete with a stand-in for Mitt Romney. He has stirred outrage among conservatives on immigration, so he is defending his stance on the campaign trail as good economics.

And as he prepares for two more debates in the next nine days, along with his first major policy address, his advisers have devised another way to help: requiring Mr. Perry to get more sleep.

After weeks in which he has stirred doubts about his abilities as a candidate, Mr. Perry is re-examining his campaign — and himself — in an effort to correct his shortcomings of style and substance so he can capitalize on his strengths, including the $15 million he has in the bank and what he points to as a record of job creation in Texas.

RTWT, or the Associated Press writeup, which hit most of the same points with the same skeptical tone, right down to faulting his (relative non-)answer on what books had influenced him (get ready for some Palin comparisons, I’m sure). 

The AP also notes that Perry took questions from voters, but not reporters, which is generally in line with Perry’s past media strategy.  Team Perry believes that doing retail politics generates more favorable local coverage, which experiments in prior Texas campaigns showed to be more worthwhile.

The coverage of Perry this weekend seems to bear at least half of that strategy out, as the Iowa coverage had a less skeptical tone than the NYT and AP reports.  The Des Moines Register’s caucus blogger led with Perry’s economic defense of the “Texas Dream Act” as trying to ensure that illegal immigrants be taxpayers instead of tax wasters, but also noted that only 4 of 183 state legislators had opposed it.  The Cedar Rapids Gazette reported that he “seemed to redeem himself ” with the crowd at an appearance in Tiffin, quoting a number of supportive comments.  The Sioux City Journal similarly quoted people who found persuasive Perry’s explanation that illegal immigrants were subject to the same rules for in-state tuition as other students attending public universities in Texas.  The reports from the Iowa City Press-Citizen and the Spencer Daily Journal did not even touch on the knocks to date against the Perry campaign, focusing instead on the jobs message Perry wants reported.

Whether the second premise of Team Perry’s media strategy — that the national coverage ultimately does not matter all that much — remains open to question.  Unlike a Texas campaign, the NYT, the AP, and the other usual suspects will be covering his campaign regardless of whether Perry feeds them material (not that it would be noticibly more favorable if he did).  The news about debate practices — and the fact that it was fed to the NYT — suggests Team Perry is covering its bet.

–Karl

181 Responses to “Rick Perry’s Iowa tune-up and media strategy”

  1. Mr. Perry sowing the seeds of sowing the seeds of love

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  2. Ricky suave

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  3. His handlers should rig Perry up with a portable oxygen tank to help increase the flow of oxygen to his brain. that would help to keep him alert during the debates.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  4. Jeff’ ‘I’m enchanted’ Zeleny, that’s always entertaining what notions he comes up with, relevance is optional, though.

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  5. Sir
    I heard talk of Americans not paying taxes. What is being stated is misrepresentation. Those, who you speak of fall into 3 area 1.those who did not MAKE ENOUGH, are retired on social security, and or just to poor to pay taxes. Please I am A Republican and thing frivilous statement upset me.
    Does the republican party we middle class individuals are uneducated or fail to research what is being said.EEVERYONE should pay their fair share. How many upper calls rich figured out how to avoid taxes or at least their FAIR share. Please stop distortaing the truth. PS I would love to hear a reply. And I am highly educated!!

    Neverson Dollar (1bdb98)

  6. “As for Rick Perry, the man whom Robert Jeffress introduced at the Value Voters Summit on Friday and the person the pastor thinks evangelicals should support rather than Romney, there was a special onus on him to speak out on the issue. As I wrote yesterday, this is an opportunity for Perry to show some character, but so far he hasn’t done so. On Friday, when a reporter asked him whether he agreed with Jeffress about the Mormon Church being a cult, he replied,“no.” But when another reporter asked whether he repudiated the remarks, he merely said, “I’ve already answered your question,” a response that must be judged inadequate on both moral and political grounds.”

    – Jonathan Tobin at Commentary

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  7. Haiku, I disagree. Perry’s campaign put out a comment noting Perry doesn’t share this view Mormonism is a cult.

    Perry is wise not to give too much attention to this sort of thing.

    I hope Romney fans don’t fight like democrats, trying to paint Perry as a bigot for something he had no control over, just because he’s not apologizing enough for something he didn’t do.

    That’s unjustified. Perry doesn’t have a special onus to delve into this issue, because frankly it’s a sideshow.

    After years of being called anti black bigots, now Tea Partiers are being called anti Mormon bigots too? Guilty until proven innocent?

    I see this as no more fair than asserting Flake endorsed Romney because Mormons all support Romney in lockstep.

    Why not criticize Perry for his own words? Because there’s nothing to criticize. Perry has been leading for a very long time, and those who know his record know he doesn’t have a bigot bone in his body. The Romney camp is now upset Perry isn’t highlighting bigotry he isn’t responsible for? Tough.

    How many upper calls rich figured out how to avoid taxes or at least their FAIR share.

    What is their fair share? The top ten percent pay for seventy percent. They pay a much higher rate. Infinitely more than the massive number of folks who pay no share.

    The real problem here (in my opinion) is that so many Americans just don’t have a stake in this government’s runaway spending because they both aren’t asked to ever pay for any of it and they are convinced ‘the rich’ can just pay more and more forever.

    If we tax every penny of all rich folks, we still have a debt crisis. That’s how bad spending has become, and I think class warfare is largely responsible for this being possible.

    Have no illusions, ‘republican’ (cough cough democrat), you and your family are paying a price for democrat spending policies every time to spend your enfeebled dollars.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  8. I am shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that local media are more sympathetic in its assessment of campaigning GOP politicians,
    than the Poobahs squating (like an OWS demonstrator interfacing with an NYPD unit) from the Ivory Towers of the NYT and AP (read: MSM)!

    However, the advice to Perry to get more sleep is good advice to all involved in high-intensity campaigns.
    You can’t do your best work when you’re running on left-over adrenaline.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (d40a96)

  9. Highly educated in the art of populism.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  10. That’s true, Drew.

    But I am out of excuses for Perry’s debate performance. It really is pretty bad.

    I guess my memory of his debate performance doesn’t apply because he wasn’t on a stage surrounded by liars saying he forced retardation on innocent girls, wants to abolish social security, and believes in amnesty and open borders.

    We’re seeing a gear up from the Romney camp to condemn Perry for anti Romney bigotry. I guess they learned a lesson from 2008, where many rallied to Romney because of Huckabee’s BS. Then, Romney’s pal Cain can hit Perry for the N-word-head rock.

    So what that both charges are dishonest? The other charges have been dishonest too. This is what the GOP is all about now. Democrat style sophistry.

    Perry will have to deal with these issues without being knocked of his game. If it were me, I would be so angry I wouldn’t be able to think clearly for an hour. But frankly, I would want my nominee to be better equipped.

    I find this strategy of focusing on local events and local media pretty smart, but national media matters too. Particularly for fund raising.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  11. Dustin,

    The Article lied the Pastor did not say that Mormonism as a cult while introducing Perry, the pastor said he made the comment hours later in a private meeting with the reporter and made those comments one on one according to Fox News

    Attempt number 326 to derail the inevitable

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  12. Exactly Eric.

    😯 I’m agreeing with you?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  13. The Article lied the Pastor did not say that Mormonism as a cult while introducing Perry, the pastor said he made the comment hours later in a private meeting with the reporter and made those comments one on one according to Fox News

    I apologize for the error.

    That’s an interesting detail.

    It almost sounds like the Romney camp and their media fans were just hunting for an excuse to call Perry a bigot, and took the two things they found, despite, inconveniently, Perry not doing anything wrong.

    If Perry wasn’t even introduced with that comment, why would they be saying he has an onus to shine light on this issue?

    Is Mormon bigotry really a scourge worth worrying about? I don’t think so. Romney and most Mormons I’ve known benefit greatly from this country. They are not victims and shouldn’t act like they are. It’s true, there are people who don’t agree with their views or my views. That’s America too. Deal with it.

    Don’t run around searching for something you can shape into a ‘Perry is a bigot’. That’s offensive. I’d say it’s unamerican, but these days it’s the norm.

    Romney’s campaign is tearing the GOP apart. That’s how badly the Mccain supporting establishment wants Romney, whose turn it is for some reason. Just nip the Tea Party at the bud, I guess.

    If being a Perry supporter is to be automatically associated with racism and anti religious bigotry, it’s going to be all the more difficult to support Romney if he’s the nominee.

    The MSM knows this. They will give ample attention to any GOP candidate bashing any other GOP faction. That’s why Cain and Romney need to be careful about how they campaign for Romney.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  14. That’s unjustified. Perry doesn’t have a special onus to delve into this issue, because frankly it’s a sideshow.

    We will see whether Perry tries to take advantage of what Jeffress said about Mitt Romney’s religion and what he chooses to do will help us understand what sort of man Perry really is.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  15. I’m sorry did Romney get butt-hurt?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  16. We will see whether Perry tries to take advantage of what Jeffress said about Mitt Romney’s religion and what he chooses to do will help us understand what sort of man Perry really is.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/10/2011 @ 9:04 am

    That’s totally fair. And I won’t support Perry if he does try to paint Mormons as unacceptable, generally.

    But like I said, Perry just isn’t like that.

    Let’s wait for this moment of Perry being a bigot before coming up with that argument against him. I think this says a lot about how Northeasterners in the MSM see Texans. They just assume Perry must be a good ol’ boy laughing about N word jokes, but that’s completely wrong.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  17. Romney’s campaign is tearing the GOP apart. That’s how badly the Mccain supporting establishment wants Romney, whose turn it is for some reason. Just nip the Tea Party at the bud, I guess.

    Hyperbole much, Dustin?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  18. Does Rick Perry tithe, as all faithful Christians are supposed to do? Not according to tax records.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  19. Romney is the greatest most principled electable Team R candidate EVAH! Perry is a stupidhead.

    Uh uh. Perry is the greatest kind of conservative EVAH. Romney is a liberal.

    EPWJ (cae88c)

  20. Oops, leftover from Friday. Sorry.

    JD (7c90f3)

  21. As of June 2011, Perry had donated half a percent to religious groups.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  22. I wonder if that’ll make Perry a “true Christian” in Jeffress’s opinion?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  23. Why do people like Jeffress and Hagee get drug out as representative of Christians every election cycle?

    JD (0b8a2b)

  24. Cuz one’s a hillbilly bigot and the other’s a methhead guy what likes to have gay sex?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  25. Haiku’s mask is tossed on the midden pyre.

    Son’t mention it, you’re all quite welcome.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  26. St. Cloud, Minnesota… land of a 1,000 flakes.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  27. correction… St. Cloud, Minnesota… land of a 1,000 bigoted flakes who can’t quite comprehend how he poisons the well.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  28. “The Article lied the Pastor did not say that Mormonism as a cult while introducing Perry, the pastor said he made the comment hours later in a private meeting with the reporter and made those comments one on one according to Fox News”

    EPWJ – Let’s keep it honest. The follow up questions to Jeffress were in response to what he said in his introduction:

    “Do we want a candidate who is a conservative out of convenience or one who is a conservative out of deep conviction? Do we want a candidate who is a good, moral person — or one who is a born-again follower of the lord Jesus Christ?” Jeffress asked, according to ABC News. Perry, Jeffress said, was a “genuine follower of Jesus Christ.”

    Is Perry responsible for the words of those who introduce him? That’s up for individuals to decide I guess. Jeffress brought the same kind of anti-mormon bigotry out in 2008 so the anyone doing a little research should have known the danger was there. Obama deliberately separated himself from Rev. Hatey on the campaign trail because of Wright’s propensity for over the top rhetoric. McCain had to disavow the words of several pastors in 2008 as well.

    Your misleading comment about what actually happened is just an attempt to minimize the situation and make the Romney campaign look like they over reacted. The opposite is actually true. The media took the ball and ran with it.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/279553/pastor-who-introduces-perry-calls-mormonism-cult-katrina-trinko

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  29. We already know from his time as governor of Massachusetts that Romney governs like a Democrat.

    With the Mormon issue, Romney also shows he fights like a democrat.

    We are very quietly being shuffled over to Romney as candidate, ala McCain 2008.

    Advo (939bc8)

  30. As of June 2011, Perry had donated half a percent to religious groups.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/10/2011 @ 9:19 am

    Prove it.

    And remember, I don’t deduct my tithing from my taxable income, even though I’ve been tithing since I was 14 years old. The IRS would think I donate zero percent.
    \

    Why do people like Jeffress and Hagee get drug out as representative of Christians every election cycle?

    Comment by JD — 10/10/2011 @ 9:24 am

    Because it’s good for dividing conservatives.

    Hyperbole much, Dustin?

    Comment by ColonelHaiku

    Are you kidding me? Romney is by far the most liberal republican to ever have a shot at the nomination. He swore he would never waver from supporting Roe v Wade, banned some guns, and increased the tax on all he didn’t ban by 400% as democrats cheered how this greatly reduced gun ownership in his state.

    The guy has a record of spending and tax increases (Though by tax I just mean when people and companies pay the government more. Romney fans sometimes claim that’s not a tax increase).

    Oh, and Romneycare. And Cap and Trade.

    Were you awake in 2010? The Tea Party does not support people like that. Asking them to do it because they hate the democrats is not working.

    You guys can’t have it both ways. You can’t act like Romney is a secret weapon because unions love him, and then take it for granted that fiscal conservatives will support him. A Romney nomination really does divide the GOP.

    Now we have Haiku actually making an argument that Perry is not Christian enough to be supported because Haiku doesn’t see enough tithing in Perry’s 1040?

    Haiku, you are all the place right now. Is trying to make hay of Perry’s religion OK, but delving into Romney’s not OK? Is the only reason for that because you like Romney more than Perry?

    Of course this crap is tearing the party apart.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  31. I agree, Advo.

    Romney is showing he’s still a liberal at heart.

    Perry already explained he doesn’t agree on this point. And that’s the end of that.

    Support for Perry is a great way to show you reject Romney’s victim hustle.

    And just look at this thread. The idea that Perry isn’t christian enough because he didn’t get a receipt for his tithe.

    Is it OK to delve into Perry’s religion, Haiku? That’s what you’re doing. Who is the onus on to disavow that comment? What business is it of yours how Perry worships? That’s what tithing is.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  32. Ezekiel 3:18 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman…If I[the LORD] say to the wicked ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning…his blood I will require at your hand.”

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  33. George Harrison once described his religion as “a mystical energy encased in a sound structure”. I think he was on to something. Religion as personal inner strength and outward inspiration– not invoked as political or social weaponry for anybody or against anybody.

    elissa (af4a71)

  34. Very well said, Elissa.

    It’s kinda sad to see a few folks I respect play this issue, not just at this blog, but in a few others places.

    Let’s do like Perry has so far. Treat this as not an issue. If it’s forced by the MSM, answer it briefly and ignore it. Creating a fight over whether someone is a bigot or if someone is worshiping the right way is going to tear this party apart.

    Romney and Perry should focus on things like a balanced budget amendment, spending, taxation, foreign policy. Religion is a personal matter.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  35. Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/10/2011 @ 9:16 am

    Are we imposing a “religious test”?
    You may do so personally, but it is Constitutionally impermissable for the Government to do so (as I’m sure that you are aware).
    Rick Perry’s relationship with his Church is his business, and that of his Church, and not ours.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (bdde46)

  36. The Follow Questions were not from the podium the reporter singled the pastor out and asked him directly if he thought Mormonism is a cult.

    It was a reporter who wanted to get him on record to create even more negative spin before the next debate

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  37. The Follow Questions were not from the podium the reporter singled the pastor out and asked him directly if he thought Mormonism is a cult.

    We’re going to see this over and over. Anyone Perry is near will be probed. If they are somehow deviating from what is acceptable, people will scream ‘why did Perry let this happen!!!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!’

    It’s a completely fabricated issue. Perry has been leading for a very long time. If he’s got a problem with any group of folks, show me based on what he’s done or what he’s said.

    No one can. The n-word head rock failed because Perry loved working with folks without any regard for their skin color. The mormon oppression concerns fail for the same reason. Texas has plenty of Mormons. It’s never been an issue.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  38. Nice link, Ian!

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  39. Is it OK to delve into Perry’s religion, Haiku? That’s what you’re doing. Who is the onus on to disavow that comment? What business is it of yours how Perry worships? That’s what tithing is.

    Obviously, I could have been more eloquent, but the intent of my inane point was that these so-called “religious tests” and comments about who or what constitutes “true” Christian/Christianity are themselves inane and have no place in the dialogue.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  40. Hopefully, Rick Perry will show that he understands this simple truth and will walk away from the support of a bigot like Jeffress.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  41. Support for Perry is a great way to show you reject Romney’s victim hustle.

    Now that is a cheap and tawdry little maneuver. I would think it beneath you, Dustin.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  42. :roll: Like romneybots calling Rick Perry a racist?

    :roll: Way to project their my man.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  43. ==Let’s do like Perry has so far. Treat this as not an issue.==

    My comment mentioning George Harrison was meant to go well beyond the actions of the candidates themselves. That includes campaign “surrogates”, supporters, and pastors preaching politics from the pulpit. There are plenty of people out there to whom it is an issue, or want to make it an issue, and yes, they are tearing us apart.

    elissa (af4a71)

  44. Obviously, I could have been more eloquent, but the intent of my inane point was that these so-called “religious tests” and comments about who or what constitutes “true” Christian/Christianity are themselves inane and have no place in the dialogue.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku

    I’m glad. I don’t have any record of my tithing, but I really don’t think it’s anyone’s business. Sometimes I’m not even very good about it. It’s just not a qualification for anything, or something I am comfortable seeing discussed.

    Perry has a more humble background, anyway. He worked his way up from practically nothing, and so he doesn’t have a few million to toss around, even though he does make a good living today.

    It’s just like you’re saying. It’s not good to bring it up. You’re trying to illustrate absurdity in Romney’s defense with a ‘what it would look like to do it to Perry’, but I think that’s a bit unfair.

    Perry has never said a single thing that was bigoted against Mormons. He doesn’t think that’s a proper topic for political discussion.

    And let’s keep things in perspective. People who think Mormons have Christianity wrong, or Mormons who think Baptists have Christianity wrong, are not Neo Nazis. I disagree with Jeffress’s argument that this is relevant to choosing the President, but I don’t want Perry to bother sorting his supporters. Yeah, he should try to stay away from this if he can, but he didn’t do anything wrong.

    In fact, he said Jeffress was wrong. That’s how Perry handles things. Just tells you how he feels and that’s it. Take it or leave it.

    That’s the best way, because ultimately, either I’m going to have to support Romney, or you’re going to have to support Perry (in my guess, Cain is supporting Romney being the nominee).

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  45. 40. “a bigot like Jeffress”

    You can believe whatever you like. That’s not a freedom guaranteed by the Contstitution but a right imparted by life to which the Constitution gives obeisance.

    If you folks had a case you would have made it already, but its simply way above your pay grade.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  46. Rick Perry 2012.

    If Obama gets in to office in 2012
    Medicaid and Medicare will no longer exist.

    They need to be reformed.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  47. That includes campaign “surrogates”, supporters, and pastors preaching politics from the pulpit.

    You’re right, Elissa. The party won’t work very well if people are saying X isn’t good enough because of how he worships.

    Jeffress is a failure if his goal is to build the GOP tent. Of course, that’s not his goal.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  48. Jefress’s goal is to be a far-right loon.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  49. Gary,

    I think one problem is Jeffress calling Mormonism a cult. Why do that? Is that necessary? It conveys this idea there’s something sinister going on. It’s just too much.

    He’s free to say whatever he wants, but that’s going to tick off Mormons, justifiably.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  50. there*

    The perry haters who think he is racist are getting a wee bit brazen.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  51. If you folks had a case you would have made it already, but its simply way above your pay grade.

    It has already been shown that you’d written a falsehood just this morning, you have lost any shred of credibility you may have hoped to have.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  52. Jeffress seems to have let his mouth write a check that Perry’s ass is going to have a difficult time cashing.

    Jeffress should be more aware of the “Clutch Rule”:
    Be sure to put your brain in gear before engaging your mouth!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (bdde46)

  53. “Support for Perry is a great way to show you reject Romney’s victim hustle.”

    Dustin – Romney’s skirt was too short?

    Hilarious? Just look at this thread as you suggested. EPWJ’s dishonest attempt to deflect from what Jeffress actually said during his introduction, which naturally led to follow up questions from the media, from which Jeffress will not back down, makes Romney the bad guy? In what delusional world?

    GET A GRIP.

    Jeffress’ comments were roundly condemned by virtually every other speaker at the conference.

    You see anti-Perry plots everywhere when there are simple explanations for events. Jeffress screwed up. People reacted. People needed no prodding from the Romney campaign because Jeffress’ comments could be interpreted as antiJewish and antiCatholic and antiMuslim as well.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  54. Also, honestly, when someone thinks one religion is correct and others aren’t, that doesn’t make them a bigot. That’s simply logic.

    And if someone prefers leaders that have the ‘correct’ religion, that’s not bigotry as long as it doesn’t become some overarching rule. I would honestly much prefer Obama if he adopted all my views on morality and God today. Why would I sanely adopt views on such things if I didn’t prefer them in such a way?

    The problem comes when we take that too far. When we isolate one religion as especially unworthy, and act as though folks who follow that religion are somehow sinister. When we pretend our competing faiths can be evaluated objectively by someone in one of the faiths, and bring that argument out into a secular sphere.

    We’ve all got to come together as a political party. Nothing about Mormonism justifies excluding them from that. Similarly, I hope Mormons can consider Perry and that these reports of lockstep Mormon support, akin to the black vote supporting Obama, are exaggerated.

    Frankly, most of the Mormons I know were gun owners and pro life, and they really meant it. I recall some Book of Mormon quote saying ‘They’ve got to carry weapons with them’ (approximately).

    Perhaps Perry is a better Mormon than Romney is. That was meant as a joke. The correct answer is what Elissa is saying. Shame on anyone trying to make hay of religion without something that really justifies it (like Rev Wright).

    And frankly, if I recall, I think someone compared Jeffress to Rev Wright above. That’s silly.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  55. GET A GRIP.

    You’re the one freaking out, dude.

    Have a sense of humor and perhaps dial it down. Stop burning strawmen. When I mention an alliance with a link or a justification, don’t punk out and ignore it, and then a few days later site it vaguely to show I’m paranoid. Take it on directly, like man, if you’re even able to do so.

    Yes, Romney’s campaign was quoted as saying Pawlenty was now their friend and would be compensated with money, when T Paw went from Romney critic to Romney endorser. There is nothing paranoid about it.

    Yes, Cain clearly is preferring Romney be the nominee to Perry, and has noted he’s interested in being Romney’s running mate. Suggesting the two candidates are aligned and targeting Perry is not paranoia, but common sense.

    You just can’t sit at the adult table, can you? You just get so aggressive when folks are trying to have a conversation.

    But you’re not a Romney supporter at all, right? That’s what you said. You just HATE LIARS AND DEMAND HONESTY AND PARROT ROMNEY POINTS THAT AREN’T.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  56. The caps above was sarcasm, btw. Daley isn’t very upsetting. Just annoying.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  57. Romney in a skirt?

    Thanks for the mental image.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  58. “The guy has a record of spending and tax increases (Though by tax I just mean when people and companies pay the government more. Romney fans sometimes claim that’s not a tax increase).”

    Hey, Perry has the same record and Perry fans also avoid calling things tax increases and if you look upside down and sideways you can say with a straight face that Perry did not do the same thing Romney did on an apples to oranges basis. This has been pointed out numerous times.

    This is not intended as a criticism of Perry’s management of the State of Texas, just to point out that the same criticisms leveled here at Romney are equally valid against Perry using the same measures.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  59. The Perry campaign isn’t paying me enough for this.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  60. “You’re the one freaking out, dude.”

    Dustin – Exactly. Count the comments. Look for the accusation of victim hustle, etc.

    It is clear what is going on. Thin skin, paranoia and blind support for Perry.

    Cheers.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  61. burning strawmen

    Doesn’t that contribute to AGW?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (bdde46)

  62. Perry’s campaign should invest in this, instead.

    Hey, Perry has the same record

    Liar liar pants on fire, Mr ‘let’s keep it honest and I’m not a Romney support at all’.

    Romney’s tax record is 50% higher than Perry’s, with taxes that were absurd, such as the $100 per gun tax.

    Perry can be compared in some ways, I guess, except in the one that matters. Perry actually stands for LOW TAXES and Romney stood for HIGH TAXES getting higher while pretending they weren’t tax increases.

    Perry has a record as a spendthrift, cutting spending, and keeping taxes low. He’s fought against tax increases for over ten years.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  63. It is clear what is going on. Thin skin, paranoia and blind support for Perry.

    I’m not paranoid if I present a reasonable argument explaining my view. Often I’m simply noting something that really happened. You call this paranoia.

    I’m not blindly supporting Perry, if I’m willing to criticize him, which I have been.

    Two more lies from you.

    ‘Thin skin’ I may have, though. I resent liars.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  64. paranoia and blind support for Perry

    Two decades of Statewide elections, first running statewide in a solidly blue state then maintaining this tenure during a solidly red state while being assaulted weekly if not daily in the press in 5 mjor cities and the national press as well

    All this with millions of paranoid blind supporters in a state that has relected fewer politicians than most?

    Okay, on the other hand we have a guy who still is confused where he lives, lost 2 out 3 elections, is a career politician whose main strategy is to invest millions of his and his business partners money into his campaigns.

    Vs a guy who raised 17 million 250 dollar donations at a time

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  65. “Yes, Romney’s campaign was quoted as saying Pawlenty was now their friend and would be compensated with money, when T Paw went from Romney critic to Romney endorser”

    Dustin – I think the Colonel handled this one just fine. Nothing for me to say. You have any evidence of money passing? Anything in FEC reports? Who from Romney’s campaign was quoted? I feel no need to respond to all the nonsense you put out since I have not chosen a candidate to support.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  66. Paranoia….
    If they’re not after you, no one’s paying attention.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (bdde46)

  67. Anyway, once again, Daley, I’ve explained my views specifically.

    In your world, you argue by smear and lie, and summarizing arguments you barely read as paranoia. When the facts are cited, you dismiss them and go away for a while. You’ll come back again, claim I was paranoid again, and flee again when I explain precisely what my view actually was.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  68. Anyone saying I’m a blind supporter of Perry is either ignorant or a liar. Check Google. I’ve had a measured and consistent view of Perry for a long time.

    I’ve criticized him many times, both before and after he became a contender in this particular election.

    Romney fans, at least some of them, are zealous in a peculiar way where they act like this is all a game, and they just happen to be on Romney’s side today. A LOT of them pretend they are completely objective and neutral.

    I, on the other hand, explained my preference for Mitch Daniels. I listed out that I wanted a repeat governor with a set of policies in his record. Perry is the only one running who passes my test. There is nothing blind about my support for him, and Daley already knows this.

    It’s very annoying to be called dishonest while going out of my way to play fair about Perry’s faults.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  69. 49. “one problem is Jeffress calling Mormonism a cult.”

    First, I respect your moderation of this issue. Its certainly a harder row to hoe than the one Jeffress has chosen–‘impolitic’ for sure.

    But that’s the danger for politicians in the Bible Belt where church support from the dais is demanded.

    The guy might have been reading from Acts that AM.

    By way of analogy, from the Methodist Book of Discipline the leader of congregations, ministers, are to be chosen from among ‘solid citizens'(my midrash) with nothing to detract from the office out of their personal life.

    ‘Sect’ is inappropriate, ‘cult’ inadequate, but as Islam was launched by misappropriation of the Talmud(and to a lesser extent a Nestorian version of Christianity) so likewise Mormonism misappropriated Christianity.

    The authotitaive source for Christianity was as much the Septuagint, a Greek translation, as the Tanakh, and the Jews have a case that the Prophets were poorly translated in the former.

    But the overwhelming difference between Christianity, Islam and Mormonism is not that Christianity similarly entails perversion of meaning, Judaism simply does not acknowledge the Christ as an instantiation of the ‘Messiah’.

    False religion.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  70. “Perry has a record as a spendthrift, cutting spending, and keeping taxes low. He’s fought against tax increases for over ten years.”

    Dustin – Here is exactly where you get in trouble with your rhetoric. I never called Perry a spendthrift.

    The link which you supplied to criticize Romney’s performance claimed Massachusetts spending climbed less than inflation and population growth on his watch. Think that through.

    Doesn’t that mean that per capita government spending in constant dollars declined while Romney was governor of Massachusetts? Is that not the exact claim Perry supporter want people to focus on rather than the doubling of spending in nominal dollars over the past decade? Are you going to criticize one governor who reduced spending, but not the other? Can’t you be consistent?

    You keep harping on the gun law and gun fee. Minor point. The fee increase was 300%, not 400%, but that merely shows it’s tough to trust your numbers. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but the law you claim Romney signed banning certain guns I believe was supported by gun owners groups at the time.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  71. Check it out! I listed specifically why I though Romney was aligned with T Paw and Cain!

    The very things Daley was claiming I’m crazy and paranoid over.

    But Daley is ignoring that! What a surprise!

    Doesn’t that mean that per capita government spending in constant dollars declined while Romney was governor of Massachusetts? I

    Sophistry.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  72. False religion.

    Comment by gary gulrud — 10/10/2011 @ 11:47 am

    I guess I just assume Mormons really believe their views, and they take care of their families, so if their religion is actually based on a story I don’t believe (and indeed find impossible to believe) maybe that’s not my business.

    But that’s the danger for politicians in the Bible Belt where church support from the dais is demanded.

    Yup. It’s too cute by half to demand Perry distance himself from what’s going to crop up occasionally outside Perry’s control. There is only one way Perry can avoid being supported by the entire list of things that are politically incorrect, and that’s to not run.

    Perry isn’t making an issue of this stuff. Here’s what Perry is making an issue of. (Same video from my last link).

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  73. Comment by daleyrocks — 10/10/2011 @ 11:48 am

    No! He increased the fee by a factor of “4”, but that is a 300% increase ($75 is 300% of $25).
    If it had been a 400% increase, the new fee would be $125!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (bdde46)

  74. “Anyway, once again, Daley, I’ve explained my views specifically.”

    Dustin – Somebody in the Romney campaign saying Pawlenty should be compensated, so therefore it must have actually happened. Those are good facts.

    Herman Cain strangely saying he would work for any candidate but Perry must be a prearranged plot with Romney because Cain supported Romney in 2008? Those are more good facts.

    I call those more complete speculation. I am more troubled by your smears of Romney because he did not have a “humble” background like your BFF Perry, that he never had any character building experiences, unlike Perry, that he never earned anything in his life, that it was all given to him by virtue of his family wealth and connections. I would call those true unsupportable smears you should be ashamed to introduce into the conversation and attempts to distract are employing the liberal tactic of accusing others of what you are guilty of yourself.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  75. My BAD!

    My “No!”, should be a “Yes!”

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (bdde46)

  76. “If it had been a 400% increase, the new fee would be $125!”

    AD – Try again. A 100% increase is to $50.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  77. AD Scratch that. You were right.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  78. “Doesn’t that mean that per capita government spending in constant dollars declined while Romney was governor of Massachusetts? I

    Sophistry.”

    Dustin – Apples to apples honest comparison that you refuse to face.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  79. 72. Christianity is a bigger departure from Judaism than Buddhism or Jainism is from Hinduism but from the Rig Veda thru the Upanishads Hinduism was comparatively cohesive–then it exploded with animism and multiplication of gods.

    Via Smith’s autobiographic writings, he looked at the multiplication of denominations and took it upon himself to unify the religion. That aspiration kind of got away from him.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  80. Maybe you’ll cut Dustin some slack now that you have had your Barbie moment?
    “Gee, math is hard!”

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (bdde46)

  81. Dammit, Drew. I concede error on that point.

    Romney increased the gun tax from $25 to $100. Math is hard for us Texas due to the Gardasil and gunpowder they put in the gravy in the public schools, all held surrounding rocks with various racial slurs for names.

    Anyway, I find a gun tax to be a direct assault on liberty. Sales tax, fine, but gun tax? Not OK. People have a right to defend themselves. They can’t rely on the cops. It’s just not right.

    And that’s a massive fee affecting the poor who need self defense the most (in my opinion). Sure, yuppies picking up a hunting weapon are barely going to notice the fee, but someone who is worried about their safety because they live in a bad neighborhood like I recall in Boston?

    Romney actually had a worse NRA rating than the democrat he beat for governor. He was so bad, that they had to lobby him to ban only some guns and moderate on some points, leading Romney to claim he’s a great champion of the second amendment when they sighed with relief Romney was less bad than anticipated.

    Makes you wonder just how bad they expected him to be.

    But I’m not lying about this stuff. Romney really did impose a massive increase in taxes on guns, and in many other areas, and this was in a state that already takes far too much in taxes and spends far too much as well.

    Perry doesn’t have that record. One can play games and try to find how Perry is just like Romney, but Texas spends a whole lot less per citizen. Businesses come here specifically for our tax and regulation being easy to live with.

    And a nickle added to the fishing license is not similar to being charged $100 to have a gun in your house.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  82. Comment by Dustin — 10/10/2011 @ 10:57 am

    I think one problem is Jeffress calling Mormonism a cult. Why do that? Is that necessary?

    He might have been promised a donation if he did that, or perhaps a bit more likely, promised he would lose a donation or donations if he didn’t.

    Could be Romney was behind that. I wouldn’t put it past him. Could be somebody else. Robert Jeffries has been talking about Mitt Romney and Mormonism being a cult for years. He did that in 2007.

    He’s also said in the end he would vote for him because he prefers a non-Christian with the right principles to a professing Christian who doesn’t govern Biblically or something like that.

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)

  83. The only time I’ve ever been to MA was actually when Romney governed there, and it was a hellhole.

    There was this school with ‘rape stairs’ engineered so that women could run up them faster than men who were trying to rape them.

    If I lived there, I would buy guns and the state of MA would tax me heavily for this sin.

    In TX, there is no gun registration to speak of, and Mitt Romney would be completely unelectable (just as Rick Perry is unelectable in MA).

    This is a much more legitimate issue than talking about whether Perry is insufficiently condemning someone he already told us he disagreed with.

    This victim and bigotry stuff is usually a distraction from our rights and our future.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  84. “Doesn’t that mean that per capita government spending in constant dollars declined while Romney was governor of Massachusetts? I

    Sophistry.”

    Dustin – It’s a freaking fundamental point. You are trying to hold Romney to a different standard than Perry. Why, because you hate him as you have said time and again. When you place the numbers side by side on the basis you say is most relevant for evaluating Perry, Romney’s are not bad.

    The problem is that doesn’t fit with your narrative of him as a spendthrift liberal. Neither does the fact that Perry raised fees and other taxes to raise revenues during his tenure as governor, the same criticism you level at Romney, because it takes away ammunition from your Romney is a bad guy box.

    My problem is that your factual criticism of Romney on a lot of levels is not accurate or that the same criticism can be leveled equally at Perry if it can be leveled at Romney. It’s a question of facts, not partisan support, spin or paranoia.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  85. “Maybe you’ll cut Dustin some slack now that you have had your Barbie moment?”

    AD – I still wanna be Barbie. The more important point in that was that I believe gun owners’ groups supported Romney on changing Massachusetts laws, not necessarily the fees.

    If Dustin is making inaccurate comments, he does not deserve a break. He should calm down.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  86. I always thought if you multiply something by 4, that is a 400% increase.

    I will instead say Romney increased the gun tax to four times what it was before.

    This is an example of a good faith mistake.

    I love this, though. Let’s all talk about Romney’s massive gun tax increase and how to calculate it accurately. Like all Romney’s tax increases, they are clouded in mystery and sophistry and called ‘fees’ or ‘loopholes’. Then, when you compare MA’s already high tax policy burden to, say, the record in TX, folks miss the trees for the forest.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  87. My BAD!

    My “No!”, should be a “Yes!”

    AD, you are wise… but there’s a sadness to your wisdom.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  88. 72, cont. I’ve had over a dozen young men at my table over 30 years, many for visits over weeks and months, been to Stakes for meetings and classes.

    A good number of the women–not that I got as close–seemed Ok to me.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  89. If Dustin is making inaccurate comments, he does not deserve a break. He should calm down.

    Comment by daleyrocks —

    LOL

    100% of your arguments are based on emotion.

    Mine are based on Romney’s actual record.

    You claim I’m paranoid, and I soberly explain specifically why I’m not. You just ignore me to project again, another day.

    One thing you are projecting is that I’m some kind of blind hack.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  90. daleyrocks, who do you support for the GOP nomination?

    Haiku doesn’t hide who he supports. I don’t either.

    Do you support Romney? If not, why not?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  91. “This is the governor who wrote a not very best-seller called Fed Up,’ but relied on every federal dollar he could get to balance his budget,” Rep. Doggett said.

    As Texas law requires, Perry has signed balanced budgets as governor, making what he admits are tough cuts to education and health care in the process, all the while saying Washington should cut spending like Texas does.

    But in the 2009 legislative session, Perry and Texas took $12 billion in stimulus dollars to balance the books — an issue Perry had to defend in his last campaign.

    “Using the federal stimulus money — while the governor was politicking against the stimulus — for recurring expenses was the wrong thing to do,” said Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison in January 2010.

    At the time, Perry blasted the stimulus saying there were likely better ways to stimulate the economy. But there’s some history to suggest Perry wasn’t always opposed to federal spending — so long as it helps us.

    Perry said the following back in 2000 just after President Bush was elected.

    “Having a Texan sitting in the White House who understands instinctively the needs of this state… that could be very beneficial. Hopefully we can have a strategic plan in place to take advantage of this opportunity,” said Perry on December 20, 2000.

    Finally expect this to come up too — Perry’s 2007 decision to order all Texas 12-year-old girls to be vaccinated against HPV, a sexually transmitted disease. A vaccine whose only manufacturer was, by the way, represented by a former Perry aide.

    “Not only was it a bad decision if you are a social conservative, it was a decision that benefited a lobbyist who is an extremely close friend of the governor,” said Craig McDonald with Texans for Public Justice.

    Perry said he included an opt-out in his 2007 vaccine order.

    One last lingering Texas issue for the conservative Perry is that now-dead TransTexas Corridor. It was going to be a toll road right through the heart of Texas. But crumbled under conservative opposition to the government seizing so much land using eminent domain.”

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=11&sqi=2&ved=0CF8QFjAK&url=http%3A%2F%2Fabclocal.go.com%2Fktrk%2Fstory%3Fsection%3Dnews%2Fpolitics%26id%3D8300014&rct=j&q=Rick%20perry%27s%20record%20as%20governor&ei=HEmTTumqBNTRiALLl5HTCQ&usg=AFQjCNGmSpQFeZnzERRycdKbD3yPtiBWqw&cad=rja

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  92. That could apply to Dumb Romney………….ooooooooooh is that sexist?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  93. “But while Texas remains “open for business”—the slogan of his successful re-election campaign in 2010—the state’s Legislature is in the process of a going-out-of-business sale. The Texas budget for the next two years is a mess of accounting tricks and gutted programs, thanks to an unprecedented budget shortfall. The state’s business tax has not only been unpopular, it also doesn’t generate nearly enough revenue. Operating at a structural deficit, the state has even begun to attack funding in the once-hallowed ground of education. And while Perry has spent a good bit of June on his non-campaign-campaign, state lawmakers from both parties are fighting tooth-and-nail to legislate around his dictums.

    Although he campaigned in 2010 on the premise that, as he told the Associated Press, “Texas is better off than practically any state in the country,” Perry, along with the rest of the state, soon discovered that Texas’s budget gap—$27 billion short of what it would need to maintain its already lean services in the next biennium—was among the worst in the nation. Luckily, Texas did have a rainy day fund—over $9 billion saved up for “economic stabilization.” Some lawmakers, including many Republicans in the state Senate, advocated using the fund to prevent or at least soften cuts to education and health care. But Perry, who had turned “preserving the rainy day fund” into an applause line, stood firm in refusing to use it to plug holes in the budget for 2012-13. As a result, the budget cuts were draconian—initial proposals cut almost 20 percent from public schools and proposed 30 percent cuts to Medicaid providers. According to estimates from the nonpartisan state Legislative Budget Board, the initial proposal would have cost the state over 300,000 future jobs.

    In the face of Perry’s promise to veto any use of the rainy day fund, lawmakers turned to accounting tricks like deferred payments to soften the blows to state programs. Fees, too, on everything from getting help collecting child support to registering as a lobbyist, are going up all over the state, and almost nowhere does the budget account for normal growth in social services enrollment. The final budget short-funds Medicaid by almost $5 billion. Legislators had to return for a special session to hammer out the cuts to education, which will likely end up around $4 billion. It will mark the first time Texas has cut funding for public schools since 1949, when the state first took a prominent role in financing them. Even the Texas Association of Business, a conservative, pro-business coalition if ever there was one, has expressed concerns over some of the cuts to schools and early childhood education. “Our state runs the risk of falling short on our commitment to Texas school children and businesses that rely on a well-educated workforce,” the group proclaimed in one March press release.

    Of course, many lawmakers didn’t want to use the rainy day fund in the first place, but that’s because they know a dirty little secret: Even after this two year budget period, the state’s fiscal woes are far from over. The Lone Star State has a standing $10 billion shortfall every two-year budget cycle, thanks to a faulty tax system pushed by Perry that fails to balance the budget. Although the governor normally stays away from the state Legislature—sightings in either chamber are rare and exciting—Perry engineered a new business tax in 2006 to replace a prior one riddled with loopholes. Ostensibly a good idea, his new tax nonetheless suffered from the simple fact that it didn’t bring in enough revenue. Furthermore, it turned out to be incredibly complex, leaving many business owners scratching their heads. Those who figured it out, meanwhile, realized that, because the new tax was levied on gross margins as opposed to profits, companies could be losing money and still find themselves on the hook.”

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=10&sqi=2&ved=0CFkQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnr.com%2Fnode%2F90370&rct=j&q=Rick%20perry%27s%20record%20as%20governor&ei=HEmTTumqBNTRiALLl5HTCQ&usg=AFQjCNG0Y-wSieZZavjyEctSH0C5nc6JjA&cad=rja

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  94. But in the 2009 legislative session, Perry and Texas took $12 billion in stimulus dollars to balance the books — an issue Perry had to defend in his last campaign.

    On the one hand, Haiku, I guess that’s a fair point. Texas is unwise to rely on the federal government. We need to be sustainable, and federal money is not reliable because the nation is insolvent.

    On the other hand, Texans pay a lot of income tax, and we are entitled to federal money just as much as blue states are. There’s nothing hypocritical about it. We would prefer far less tax, and then no states getting stimulus money, if we’re going to have huge stimulus, it’s even worse if Texans pay for it but don’t benefit.

    Anyway, Perry’s rejections of stimulus were based on string attached. For example, funding that require the state to pick up the tab in the future, which is a bribe to make things easier for the current slew of politicians, and force the next group to pay the price, with the ultimate goal being more and more government, forever.

    Not that every Perry criticism should be answered with a Romney one, but Romneycare did get bailed out with federal funds, so Texans had to pay for Romneycare.

    If I recall, Romneycare is an $8 billion failure. I could be mistaken in some way, but it’s losing money and the feds are making up some of that.

    In the face of Perry’s promise to veto any use of the rainy day fund, lawmakers turned to accounting tricks like deferred payments to soften the blows to state programs.

    This is accurate. However, I don’t see the problem. It’s simply a fact Texas has had a balanced budget. We sold bonds with extremely low interest rates to for liquid funds, but the money was there soon and we paid it.

    This is much better than dipping into the Rainy Day Fund, isn’t it?

    One last lingering Texas issue for the conservative Perry is that now-dead TransTexas Corridor.

    Hmm. I criticized this too. I think the government of Texas must build more roads, and if land is needed, that is totally legitimate. But the state should then possess the land, not a private company.

    Tolls I don’t mind a bit, but I can understand why others disagree because tolls often become an additional source of revenue.

    The idea here is that this corridor is not for Texans. It’s for transportation currently overwhelming I-35 shipping goods from Mexico to Illinois. Texans paying billions to help Mexico and Illinois is less equitable than charging whoever uses that highway (or the other things the corridor was to handle, like data and natural gas).

    Something like this TTC is inevitable, but the way Perry and others envisioned the TTC just didn’t seem to be the best way.

    Of course, Perry did what he’s done in other cases, and relented reasonably. That’s better than letting something go through with totally flawed implementation, such as Romneycare, which Romney wants you to blame on democrats because he couldn’t get the implementation done better.

    Again, a bit silly to compare the two politicians on such different issues.

    In my opinion, Texas needs a state-owned TTC with a toll that continues forever to profit from those shipping goods through Texas. This is not what the TTC was, exactly.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  95. Anyone Perry is near will be probed

    Translation: Don’t turn your back on Rick Perry!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  96. “daleyrocks, who do you support for the GOP nomination?”

    Dustin – You must be ignoring my comments if you ask that question. I have answered it truthfully many times previously.

    Your claims about Pawlenty are just another distraction. Why pivot the discussion there? The original Politico article mentioned two anonymous Republican sources. The Romney campaign source said they’d help TPaw if he asked. What form of help does that take? Fundraisers?

    I would say there is no verification of your claim unless you have something else so why wouldn’t I ignore it?

    The Cain Conspiracy? Seriously, that is just fever swamp left crap.

    You still don’t understand the dishonest criticisms you are making of Romney’s fiscal performance relative to Perry’s? I really thought you were smarter.

    Did gun groups support Romney’s changes in Massachusetts gun laws, not the increase in fees, or not? I know you have trouble grasping that Massachusetts is a different state than Texas, but did guns rights organizations support Romney or not? You hyperventilating over the fee issue is pretty funny, though. HUGE revenue raiser!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  97. “It’s simply a fact Texas has had a balanced budget. We sold bonds with extremely low interest rates to for liquid funds, but the money was there soon and we paid it.”

    Dustin – What happened to your claims that I was lying about accounting gimmicks and the use of revenue anticipation notes, you freaking hack!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  98. The entire notion that Rick Perry isn’t “conservative enough” is a fantasy created by his opponents, principally Gov. Romney. None of the reservations I have about Gov. Perry as a potential GOP nominee have a thing to do with him being insufficiently conservative. Gov. Perry’s position on in-state tuition for children of illegal aliens — a position that has never been controversial in deep red-state Texas — is a tiny particle in Rick Perry’s long and vivid history as a public officeholder. Ditto his position on the vacine — it’s a bacterium on a flea on an elephant.

    The indisputable fact is that in every genuinely important respect throughout more than 20 years in public office, Perry has actually governed as a conservative. That is exactly what his constituents in this very conservative state wanted; that’s exactly why he’s never lost an election.

    The notion that Gov. Romney could credibly attack Gov. Perry from Gov. Perry’s right is ridiculous. Given that the signature accomplishment of Gov. Romney in a much, much shorter political career was the passage of Romneycare, the notion that Gov. Perry is somehow overall to Gov. Romney’s left is something only the willfully self-deluded could possibly find credible.

    Yet Gov. Perry has quite obviously gone from front-runner to also-ran in the current public opinion polling. The public didn’t suddenly get more liberal. So why is that?

    I don’t think it is rational. I think instead it’s a very subjective and not at all logical repulsion to something in Gov. Perry’s style. It offends some number of Texans — Dubya was a much more popular governor, so it’s something Dubya doesn’t share — but it apparently offends non-Texans in a much, much higher percentage upon a more-than-superficial exposure to Gov. Perry.

    It’s not fair, and it’s probably not a good thing for the country: I’m quite confident that Gov. Perry isn’t going to be talked into things that I worry Gov. Romney could well be talked into, and I worry that Gov. Romney’s performance in office will again vary pretty dramatically — and consistently in a leftward departure — from the campaign positions he’s taken in 2008 and now. I believe that many of Gov. Romney’s nominal supporters still share this concern with me, which is why his support is, for the most part, thin and inconsistent rather than enthusiastic.

    But the allergic reaction I feared Gov. Perry would provoke seems unlikely to be reversed, and unless Gov. Romney stumbles badly (unlikely; he’s gotten more disciplined), it’s hard to imagine scenarios in which Gov. Perry can recapture very many of the voters who embraced but then abandoned him.

    I am no more happy with this year’s functioning of the candidate selection and winnowing process than I was in 2008. There has to be a better way.

    Beldar (4fa931)

  99. In this Romney-Perry dust-up, all I can say is that Romney’s position vis-a-vis the 2nd-A is not one I appreciate;
    and I have serious misgivings over RomneyCare – notwithstanding the changes that were made by his successor which worsened the system IMO –
    but the mandate part is conceivably covered by the police-power that resides in the States under the Constitution.
    Given all that, if it comes down to a choice between the incumbent, and Mitt Romney, the action required is quite clear:
    A vote for Romney for President, 2012!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (bdde46)

  100. “The entire notion that Rick Perry isn’t “conservative enough” is a fantasy created by his opponents, principally Gov. Romney”

    Beldar – The only issue I’m aware that people are attacking Perry on for not being sufficiently conservative on is immigration.

    I personally take issue with Perry supporters attacking Romney not using apples to apples fiscal comparisons and will continue to do so. I think Perry has done an admirable job with Texas, but misleading attacks are unfair.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  101. Well said, daley!

    And let’s – shall we – put this “religious theology” bullsh*t behind us and return the focus, like a laser, on the failed policies of this administration. That is where the battle is and let the candidates make their individual arguments for their prescriptions to remedy the situation.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  102. the mandate part is conceivably covered by the police-power that resides in the States under the Constitution.

    I agree.

    It was Romney’s power to do any number of unwise things. That is the key to the federalist system.

    It is still a failure (it loses billions) and I find it oppressive just in the same way I find Obamacare with the slight advantage of not violating the US Constitution.

    I should start ignoring Daley. It’s not possible to get an honest answer out of him 90% of the time lately, which I find very surprising.

    I’ll he’s doing is proving me right. Defending Romney is so difficult one often must resort to emotional attacks which tear the party apart.

    Romney as nominee I will vote for. Anybody but Obama. But if I’m having a hard time with it, I know those who are less pragmatic than I am will have a huge problem with it. Romney probably can’t hold the tent together.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  103. I’ll he’s doing is proving me right.

    Rather, “All he’s doing is proving me right.”

    Sorry for the occasional typo.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  104. Dustin and Beldar, we Texans are in a precarious position. We support Perry (at least I do for reasons I have posted here and have been ignored by the likes of daleyrocks) and yet, if Perry wins, and goes on to the White House, that leaves us with David Dewhurst as Governor. And if Dewhurst defeats Ted Cruz, that leaves us with Joe Strauss as Governor. I would rather eat a big, black tree roach than have either Dewhurst or Strauss as governor.

    It was bad enough having to put up with KBH and her RINO ways, but Dewhurst is no better. And Strauss should be primaried in the next election he runs in. He and Dewhurst killed both the Sanctuary City bill and Dan Patrick’s anti-TSA bill.

    Hopefully, we will sent Cruz to the Senate. And in 2014, someone like Dan Patrick will run for governor.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  105. daleyrocks, tell me, do you approve of Romney’s latest attack on Perry on Romney’s website showing a “report” called Perry’s Job Plan or something like that and then it is nothing but quotes from establishment GOP/liberal commentators and the rest is 114 blank pages?

    And what is Romney trying to tell us with the cover of that “report” showing Perry with a pistol in his hand? That Perry supports the Second Amendment and Romney doesn’t? Or is it an indirect slam against “cowboys?”

    Maybe Romney needs a little more cowboy honor to his personality than he seems to have.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  106. Retire, I agree with you that it will be a bit of a shame if Cruz is not the Senate nominee.

    I really like Ted Cruz, and all Texans should give him a good look. This is a very important time for conservatives to donate if they really mean what they say about reforming this country. Primaries are where it’s at.

    And what is Romney trying to tell us with the cover of that “report” showing Perry with a pistol in his hand?

    That’s quite lame. What’s annoying is that Romney gets to play democrat tactics like fear mongering about guns and crazy southerners and what a victim he is of Perry’s bigotry (That doesn’t even exist). But if you point any of that out, you get bashed with that other democrat tactic: claiming those calling out liberal smears are paranoid whiners.

    No, that’s not it for me. I just think Romney’s tactics are party splitting. He can’t win us over. He knows that. Daleyrocks knows that.

    Romney can only win by dividing the party and having the largest slice left. And then hope we all fall back into line after a horrible primary, even though we’re falling back in line for someone who represents the exact same problems we’re supposed to be fighting to stop!

    What kind of mandate would Romney have? It would only be to run the Obama enlarged government with more competence. It would not be reform.

    How many ways does Romney need to prove it? He’s warning us that Perry will take our goodies away. He’s not going to reform any entitlements, and our kids will be left with the bill.

    It’s important we nominate someone else. I like Cain a lot, and I’m not going to rule him out yet, but if he prefers Romney to Perry that is very strange.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  107. btw, I always love Beldar’s comments. There’s nothing I can add to them. I have more confidence in Perry’s campaign than Beldar does, but I have to admit I know what Beldar’s talking about when he laments Perry setting people off for an irrational reason.

    Anyway, try as some might, the fact is that Perry is a very good conservative leader. He just is. If we start rejecting people for any deviation, all we’re really doing is eliminating anyone with experience, which actually leads to conservatives who change course because we never saw them proven.

    The more conservative plan is to select someone with a long track record that is very conservative.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  108. Wow there is rain in texas.

    Someone must have done a caindance.

    😉 get it?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  109. Dustin, I’m sick of the meme that Perry was a Democrat. So what? So was Reagan. And if anyone even had a clue about what Texas Dems were like, they would know that when the Democrat Party started moving left, a lot of Texas Dems (to quote Zell Miller) didn’t leave the party but felt the party left them.

    John Connelly was a good man, and a Texas Democrat. When he saw the direction the national party was taking, he knew the party had left him and he became a Republican. Same with Phil Grahamm.

    But people seem to think that the Democrats in Texas back then were like the Democrats of Pelosi and Reid now. Hell, JFK would be run out of the Democrat Party now on a rail. His speech on taxes was one of the best he ever gave.

    It seems that most people now want to elect the American Idol. Or the captain of the debate team. I don’t want either one. One commentor, on another blog, said he didn’t like Perry because there was “no sizzle to the steak.” Is that what we are buying into now, the sizzle and not the steak? I can’t eat sizzle. And frankly, I have had 2 1/2 years of sizzle and am fed up with it.

    I can’t go for Cain. He has no record for me to judge how he would govern. None. And I am not willing to take that chance that he would be the “hope and change” I am looking for. Yeah, he’s a success story. So what? There are a lot of wealthy black success stories. Success in business doesn’t mean that the person will be successful with dealing with Democrats in Congress and the Senate, be wise about foreign policy or take this nation back to the concept that was given us by the Founders.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  110. It seems that most people now want to elect the American Idol. Or the captain of the debate team.

    Exactly.

    ” Is that what we are buying into now, the sizzle and not the steak? I can’t eat sizzle.

    Agreed. Romney is ready for that prime time like no other candidate I’ve ever seen, including Obama or Bill Clinton. But at what price? He hasn’t been doing anything but running for president for half a decade. Think of all you have done in that time. That’s more than Romney’s done.

    I need someone who can handle the day to day work of being president without failing in ways that he needs to explain later as ‘oh, the democrats just forced that’ or ‘oh, maybe it wasn’t really a tax increase because that’s technically a fee’ or ‘you don’t have a right to have a gun if MA doesn’t get paid’.

    Yeah, he’s a success story. So what?

    I understand where you’re coming from. I mean, Romney was damn successful in business too, but he’s an awful leader if you grade by my political POV.

    I like Cain mainly because he speaks in a way that is straight and sincere. I grant he’s probably not ready for the US Presidency, not that anyone really is, though a Texas governor is as good a prep as I can think of.

    Cain has time to appeal to me, and I’m listening. Right now I simply trust Perry more because of his record.

    a lot of Texas Dems (to quote Zell Miller) didn’t leave the party but felt the party left them.

    Any way you slice it, Perry as a democrat was conservative. On spending and other things. There was a left, and they fought against Perry who was on the right. He never changed anything but the D to an R.

    It’s sad, but even today, the GOP is to the left of Texas democrats in the 1980s.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  111. ________________________________________________

    There are a lot of wealthy black success stories.

    But not necessarily ones tied to people who don’t have the ideological tilt of, say, an Oprah Winfrey.

    I know it sounds patronizing to mention how refreshing it is that a person of the right also happens to be black, but that’s how I truly feel about Herman Cain. However, his conservative leanings come first, everything else about him — and certainly the trappings of his race — comes second, if not a distant second.

    It’s also refreshing that a person of the right ties up various simpleminded liberals in knots, referring to those who are uncomfortable about non-white (or mainly African-American) people being infused with anything other than left-leaning biases.

    Unlike some of you, I can’t get passionate about the flaws of any of the Republican candidates because I so desperately want to get President “Goddamn America” out of the White House, ASAP. Or I should say I can’t get passionate (or alarmed) about the quirks or weaknesses of Cain, Perry, Romney, etc, unless such things make them less likely to beat Jeremiah Wright’s buddy next year.

    Mark (411533)

  112. “daleyrocks, tell me, do you approve of Romney’s latest attack on Perry on Romney’s website showing a “report” called Perry’s Job Plan”

    Dustin – I have not seen it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  113. However, his conservative leanings come first, everything else about him — and certainly the trappings of his race — comes second, if not a distant second.

    That’s why it was unfortunate to see him fall for the trap the media set for Cain on this Texas racist rock thing. But Cain got past it quickly. You’re right that Cain’s race is not a big factor, which is why I like him too.

    I should say I can’t get passionate (or alarmed) about the quirks or weaknesses of Cain, Perry, Romney, etc, unless such things make them less likely to beat Jeremiah Wright’s buddy next year.

    Well, we gotta pick somebody. Might as well pick a conservative who doesn’t lie to our faces every times the polls change on something.

    In some ways I am pretty happy about Perry, but he’s not perfect and I think he will fall for compassionate conservatism sometimes. It’s only healthy not to let any of these guys sweep us off our feet.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  114. “what a victim he is of Perry’s bigotry”

    Dustin – I don’t understand your theory here. Are you claiming that Romney actually paid the pastor who introduced Perry last Friday to make bigoted comments about Mormons so that Perry is really the victim here or something?

    Last I checked it was a spontaneous eruption of religious bigotry that was roundly condemned by virtually everybody except the person who uttered the words. How you turn around and blame Romney for the incident mystifies me.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  115. “That’s why it was unfortunate to see him fall for the trap the media set for Cain on this Texas racist rock thing.”

    Dustin – Cain should have kept his yap shut until he understood what was going on, especially on “I talk like I have caramels in my mouth’s” show.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  116. “That’s why it was unfortunate to see him fall for the trap the media set for Cain on this Texas racist rock thing.”

    But it is a possible theory for why Cain does not like Perry. Cain has been silent I believe on stuff like Confederate Flags, which have come up in Perry’s past. Cain may view him as just another good ole boy or something, plus not like his stance on immigration. Who knows.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  117. I’m so bored with this fight with Daley. I can only imagine how bored everyone else is.

    I just don’t feel like imposing on everyone to continue fighting with this Romney fan. We’re clearly not going to agree, and there’s nothing fun about arguing with someone with no hope of anyone’s mind changing.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  118. _______________________________________________

    But it is a possible theory for why Cain does not like Perry.

    I think it’s more along the lines of the following…


    theblaze.com: Following his tremendous success in the Florida straw poll, GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain, who in the past has refrained from going after rivals with both barrels, had strong words of criticism for Texas Governor Rick Perry. During an in-depth two part interview with Fox News’ Megyn Kelly, Cain said Perry‘s performance at last week’s Republican presidential debate was “not up to primetime” and “wasn’t even on par with anybody on that stage.”

    “With all due respect, it was not up to primetime. His performance, quite frankly, wasn’t even on par with anybody on that stage. Not in terms of the issues per se, but in just debate delivery,” Cain stated.

    “His answers were not crisp. They were not succinct. And I think one of the biggest disappointments was when Bret Baier asked him, well, ‘What is your economic growth plan?‘ He didn’t have one. You would have thought, getting all this free publicity for weeks, that you would have at least already started to work on the outline of what you’re going to do about the biggest crisis we face — other than national security — which is this economy. And I think that disappointed a lot of people….”

    BTW, I understand when Cain was asked about whether he’d support Perry or not, he was referring to him as the nominee of the Republican Party. But that apparently didn’t mean that should Perry end up winning enough primaries to become the party’s candidate, he (Cain) therefore wouldn’t vote for Perry in November 2012.

    Anyone who even merely hints at reacting (or voting or not voting) in a way that, if only be default, allows Obama to slither into the White House next year automatically loses all credibility in my eyes. As far as I’m concerned, they might just as well proclaim “I’m a dopey liberal, I love leftism, and I wanna keep the left going strong in 2012! Hugs and kisses to my beloved Barack Obama and to the beautiful, wonderful Democrat Party!!”

    Mark (411533)

  119. Mark, if I recall correctly, Perry’s economic growth plan is that the government does not create prosperity, but only gets in the way of it.

    So his plan is to repeal the health care mandate, get regulation under control, stable, predictable, and reasonable, and also the big kicker: a balanced budget amendment.

    Those measures would indeed lead to economic growth, especially the latter one. We would have more confidence in the future of the US dollar and the viability of our government.

    The problem is that, to some, this sounds very simplistic. They want to hear the politician promise to use the office to stimulate the economy. Like ‘I will build this bridge’ or ‘I will have a committee on economic growth’.

    I think it’s pretty unfortunate Cain said Perry lacked an economic plan for the USA. Perry’s simply isn’t very complicated or designed to convey any kind of super master skills to personally lead businesses to do anything.

    The only way to prosperity is government getting out of the way.

    I recall Cain dismissing a ridiculous flip flop of Romneys in the CNN debate. Romney had a confused and nonresponsive answer, and Cain blurted out ‘case closed’ as though the issue was somehow resolved. It certainly wasn’t.

    I’m not sure how Cain would run a government. Would he run one more like Romney than Perry? That’s not what I thought before these debates, but now I see a guy who is telling us he’s more like Romney than the other candidates.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  120. “I’m so bored with this fight with Daley. I can only imagine how bored everyone else is.”

    I’m bored too. It’s not even a question of agreeing. I hate looking at a thread and reading lie after lie.

    You know the way to stop it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  121. Romney’s former constituents are being arrested en masse.

    Lots of Romneycare needed for these unemployed MA protestors for the scrapes and bruises. I guess they can tax Texans some more for that (fed money pays for some of Romneycare). Since we’re not allowed to use stimulus funds or a Romneyfan will condemn us, I guess there’s plenty for them.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  122. I don’t want to hear anything more from the Left on Perry’s position on Gardasil….

    “California Gov. Jerry Brown entered the national debate over child vaccinations for sexually transmitted diseases, signing a bill that would allow girls as young as 12 to receive the so-called HPV vaccine without parents’ consent…”
    -FoxNews

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (bdde46)

  123. Laura Ingraham: “Ann doesn’t though that issue (RomneyCare), when it comes up, it brings up the question of philosophy, right? Who is the real conservative in this race? Mitt Romney is someone that knows business and he knows how to handles a crisis, which I think he is market really well. But that is the Perry opening here. He has to remind people ‘this is what happened, this is what’s happened since in Massachusetts.’ Which again, if you’re Mitt Romney and you see the cost of healthcare going up, still I think it’s only 96% of the people insured before there was 93%, something like that. I mean, there is more people insured now, but still the numbers aren’t all that positive.”

    Ann Coulter: “No, it actually shows the failure of even state-wide universal care. But, and yet, and still, I think we have to run a governor. So, we’re basically down to Romney and Perry. And Perry has a much, much bigger problem as RomneyCare indicates, especially that sort of thing done statewide. And even Obamacare, you can repeal a bad policy. You give 30 million illegals amnesty, you can’t repeal that. Perry’s position on illegal immigration is a much bigger problem than Romney’s problem of RomneyCare.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  124. Perry does badly at debates mostly because it’s hard to think on your feet and give the right answers when, in your heart, you hold core liberal beliefs. Romney at least has the mental dexterity to smile and look relaxed when he’s the pot calling the kettle black on socilaized medicine.

    CrustyB (d4da92)

  125. 123. What this tells me, as an Indie, is the GOP doesn’t have a live option.

    Time to ditch token opposition to Progressivism.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  126. 125. Looks like somebody’s quantified this surmise:

    http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/gop-should-be-alarmed-weakness-prez-field

    Be vewwwy afwaid, don’t wook weft or wight.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  127. So Coulter, who pimped as hard as she could for Christie, is now pimping for Romney? Perhaps Laura should have asked Coulter if she thought signing legislation that gave the children of illegals in-state tuition (which at least 11 other states do) is worse than hiring illegals to maintain your lawn and tennis courts at your tony Massachussets estate.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  128. daleyrocks, Cain said that he would support any of the GOP candidates as the nominee, except Perry, a week before the rock story surfaced. Does that mean if Perry is the nominee, Cain will vote for Obama?

    Cain was attacking Perry long before the rock story so that is no excuse why Cain “hates” Perry. Wake up, there is a quid pro quo between Romney and Cain. Just like there was with Romney and Pawlenty.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  129. Perry does badly at debates mostly because it’s hard to think on your feet and give the right answers when, in your heart, you hold core liberal beliefs.

    Ridiculous. A guy governs like a true conservative for decades, and you think he’s not conservative?

    Perry does poorly at debates because he sucks at answering gotcha questions while surrounded by several ankle biters lying about his positions, only offered 30 seconds here and there to clear it all up.

    You and I would also have great difficulty. Is that because we’re liberals? No. It’s because Perry has been busy leading while some of the others were busy memorizing ways to look good on TV.

    You give 30 million illegals amnesty, you can’t repeal that. Perry’s position on illegal immigration is a much bigger problem than Romney’s problem of RomneyCare.“

    The reason this is dishonest is that Perry has already rejected amnesty. That is not his position on immigration. Comparing this strawman version of Perry’s position is then revealed simply as a reason to forgive Romney for forcing people to buy health insurance? That makes no sense.

    Ann is in the tank for Romney, and I’ve never seen her effectively pundit as a neutral observer. She is a great read partly because she can be brutally unfair to the point of it being a joke. That’s exactly what your quote is. Claiming Perry = Amnesty for 30 million illegals is a joke. Perry = the candidate who has done the most for a stronger border. He also is the guy who isn’t a flip flopping liar, so he has credibility when he rejects amnesty.

    Who would be more likely to sign an amnesty bill? I think Romney.

    Perry’s solutions to the mess are realist, not sinister or liberal.

    It’s a program far better than other in-state tuition policies in that the student has paid the same taxes for years to qualify, and he has to swear his intent to become a US Citizen. Those saying there’s not enough enforcement on that last point should explain to me how many of these college educated taxpaying Texans actually want to return to Mexico. Disagree if you like, but the idea Romney is more conservative is simply absurd.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  130. She is a great read partly because she can be brutally unfair to the point of it being a joke.

    Ann is our “Dot Parker”, without the bitterness of booze, and a horrendous personal life.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b0aaae)

  131. daleyrocks, Cain said that he would support any of the GOP candidates as the nominee, except Perry, a week before the rock story surfaced. Does that mean if Perry is the nominee, Cain will vote for Obama?

    Cain was attacking Perry long before the rock story so that is no excuse why Cain “hates” Perry. Wake up, there is a quid pro quo between Romney and Cain. Just like there was with Romney and Pawlenty.

    Comment by retire05 —

    There’s no point trying.

    I’ve explained this to daley before and he just ignores it. Every time I use links and truth, he calls it lies before launching into another dishonest smear.

    I’ve repeatedly asked him to name a single provable lie. He ignores it, and then a few days later begs me to stop “lying”. I could ask him to name a provable lie again, and he would just ignore it, or find some nit pick people mocked him over (for example, he is mad I said Romney increased the gun tax from $25 to $100 and called it a 400% increase… Daley doesn’t want it called a 400% increase). He’s an embarrassment.

    There’s just no benefit in engaging him.

    It is too difficult to defend Romney without Daleyrock’s tactics.

    His supporters either accept that, or they try to divide the party with accusations of amnesty or racism or whatever else. They know Romney has no establishment or RINO competition he can’t buy off (and indeed, he purchased his major rival for several hundred thousand dollars, I would guess before Pawlenty even dropped out).

    That’s why Romney’s fans often act like they hate conservatives, and drop ideas meant to divide conservatives even if it’s not an argument for Romney at all.

    they are willing to tear the party apart like we were in 2008 with Mccain as the last man standing.

    We can do better by rallying around the best candidate, and ignoring the RINOs and democrats who insist the debate winner would make the best president, which is frankly incredibly stupid.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  132. Retire05 is there a conspiracy between the bankstas and romney?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  133. “Does that mean if Perry is the nominee, Cain will vote for Obama?”

    retire05 – You would have to ask Cain that question, not me. Did you read Mark’s comment #118. What is the source for your not voting claim?

    “Wake up, there is a quid pro quo between Romney and Cain.”

    Evidence please. Does Cain like Perry’s immigration stance? What specifically has Cain been attacking – take it from there, why look for black helicopters?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  134. “I’ve explained this to daley before and he just ignores it. Every time I use links and truth, he calls it lies before launching into another dishonest smear.”

    Dustin – What links and truth are in them regarding concerning this “Cain Conspiracy?” Please elaborate on the hard facts you claim I am ignoring. Remember you are claiming to have facts.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  135. Well, Doh, it’s not really anything sinister, but yes, of course, the Goldman Sachs guys would much rather the GOP nominate Romney.

    The establishment wants someone who won’t upset the nice thing DC has going for it. It’s politics for its own sake, instead of politics for the sake of the country.

    Add in a few people who are patriots and just sincerely think Romney is the only guy who can win, and that’s at least the lion’s share of Romney’s camp.

    And there’s nothing really wrong with that.

    My gripe is the divide and conquer strategy. I would much rather see more ‘moderate’ Republicans run than less conservatives, actually.

    This primary is about who controls the party. Mccain 2008 campaign billionaires insisting Perry is not a factor and Romney is decided as the nominee, before we vote? I would rather the Tea Partiers run the party at a grass roots level.

    But we do have an inherent disadvantage. We won’t trust most politicians and can easily get fed up. So our bloc is inherently more fragile. If the media condemns one candidate as a racist liberal enough, it may not matter that he’s easily the least racial and more conservative guy running. That’s exactly how we got played in 2008.

    Just think of all the guy who ran in 2008 who were better than Mccain, but rejected by the right because of some flaw. Then, why did Mccain lose? I think one reason is that he didn’t have a confidence about his politics. The middle had no reason to believe in a guy like that, and the right was divided. Few sincerely liked him for the job.

    These flop flopping RINOs are not capable of rising to the occasion. They just have all the right answers on primetime TV.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  136. “I’ve repeatedly asked him to name a single provable lie.”

    Dustin – It’s easier to ask what lies you haven’t told. Start with the blazing field of strawmen you keep erecting to defend Perry and discredit Romney.

    Just look in this thread.

    “for example, he is mad I said Romney increased the gun tax from $25 to $100 and called it a 400% increase… Daley doesn’t want it called a 400% increase).” – A lie I specifically said that was a minor point. The bigger point was your hysteria over your claims of Mitt’s gun grabbing when I pointed out that gun rights supported his legislation. You have yet to respond to that point. You can’t stomach other states having laws different than Texas.

    “Romney’s tax record is 50% higher than Perry’s, with taxes that were absurd, such as the $100 per gun tax.

    Perry can be compared in some ways, I guess, except in the one that matters. Perry actually stands for LOW TAXES and Romney stood for HIGH TAXES getting higher while pretending they weren’t tax increases.

    Perry has a record as a spendthrift, cutting spending, and keeping taxes low. He’s fought against tax increases for over ten years.”

    Blazing strawmen all around. You impute things to commenters you want to hear. I never claimed Perry was a spendthrift. I have no idea where you 50% measurement comes from. The link which you provided on Romney claims his spending went down using the same form of measurement you claim is most appropriate for measuring Perry. Analysis which you had bad faith to call sophistry in this thread. Does that mean looking at Perry’s performance on a per capita constant dollar basis is sophistry? I guess it must. You don’t like it when people point out he doubled spending over a decade.

    He also raised taxes and fees but did not call them that, just as you claim Romney did. You said I was a liar for saying Texas used short-term borrowings and accounting gimmicks to balance the budget, but you admitted the state did in a reply to Colonel Haiku last night.

    This is really too easy.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  137. Cain just tweeted that he’s going to start going after Romney now.

    Ugh. Twitter.

    Anyway, we’ll see what we see. Cain’s been very helpful to Romney, to the point where he’s losing a lot of credibility with conservatives. I really think everyone on that stage should use Romney as a target because Romney governed with the same principles Obama did, and his failures are the same as Obama’s. We don’t just disagree with Obama because he’s the democrat, but because his policies of taxing and spending and regulating everything are not good for us.

    Those who show their personal ambition is more important than the political direction of the party are simply too weak to lead this country, and if Cain can show that’s not how he wants to campaign anymore, I will reconsider supporting the guy.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  138. A few more points. The same establishment party demanding we nominate Romney because Perry isn’t a factor are the idiots who set up these debates, sandbagging the GOP. Our RNC is largely run by these same hyperorganizers. The same folks who were chairman of Mccain’s campaign in 2008 think the hard left should moderate our debates. They tolerate, at best, people like Brietbart and Palin and Beck and Rush, who should be our actual debate moderators. The entire tone will be ‘are you a bigot?’ or ‘why don’t you feel bad for the death penalty’ or ‘what is your favorite thing about the other candidates and also Obama’.

    We’re not going to hear the real issues, like why is Obamacare a bad idea, or what can we do to bring the debt back down. I’m rooting for Cain, Perry, and Newt to overcome this atmosphere. But why in the hell should we engage in this circus? Because the RNC is not really on our side. They aren’t liberals so much as simply on the side of accumulating power for its own sake.

    They are the same idiots who are pushing the primary dates forward because they perceive a short term advantage in it and don’t really care about anything else.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  139. “Anyway, we’ll see what we see. Cain’s been very helpful to Romney, to the point where he’s losing a lot of credibility with conservatives”

    Dustin – I want to see those FACTS in the links you keep claiming I’m ignoring about the conspiracy between Romney and Cain. Please produce them.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  140. “Does that mean if Perry is the nominee, Cain will vote for Obama?”

    retire05 – Why don’t you ask some of your questions about Cain and the conspiracy over on Stacy McCain’s blog. He’s very tight with Cain.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  141. Oh for pete’s sake, three of Mitt’s advisors, including Jonathan Gruber met in the White House,
    a dozen times, White House records log show. Not that they learned anything from this experience

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  142. There are a lot of people who don’t really believe in the conservative ideology. They will don it, but they can’t pull it off for very long (for example, I trust Perry to be conservative because he led that way for twenty years, and when he didn’t, you can see specifically why he didn’t, for example the entire state wanting something, or a profound moment of compassion or whatever… mistakes though I think those moments were, I see why they happened and it’s clearly not because Perry’s heart isn’t conservative).

    Some of these guys just get some polls and some experts and assembled their politics for marketing and really nothing else. Instead of the candidate selling the ideas, he picks and chooses the ideas we already have, and uses them to sell the candidate.

    That’s why Romney’s fans are sometimes also Obama’s fans. Makes perfect sense. Mccain’s campaign was much like that. That’s why Palin had such a hard time there. She was trying to make pointed and specific criticisms of Obama and the establishment in DC, and Mccain’s campaign screamed she was going rogue. Even though this seems like common sense campaigning to me.

    These chairmen of Mccain’s campaign now insist it’s Romney’s turn. And they largely actually WANT the liberals in the media to control our debates, much as they WANTED Palin to be introduced to America by their good friend Katie Couric.

    It’s not insane at all, so long as you don’t assume they care about conservatism. It’s not like Mccain or his most senior staffers lost anything in 2008. They have their power and stature, and the government is actually more powerful and intrusive. Their relevance is more, not less.

    What scares these idiots more than anything in the world is a balanced budget amendment. That’s why Coulter endorsing Romney over the Balanced Budget candidate is kinda lame.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  143. Wow, Ian, I didn’t know what you were talking about.

    Apparently Romney’s Romneycare advisers helped out at the White House. Gee, I wonder what they helped Obama do. Gee. Maybe it had something to do with what Romney deleted from his book. What was that again? Romneycare is a model for the whole country?

    But Perry’s a liar for even quoting Romney’s book, because Romney deleted that it’s just not fair to expect poor Romney to be consistent now that Obamacare is known as a miserable failure.

    How did Bush beat Kerry?

    He portrayed him as pathetic. Too pathetic to even stay consistent on any policy. How in the world is Romney going to overcome that?

    He doesn’t even have the faith of most of his own party.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  144. The (bi-partisan) Establishment is scared .hitless by the thought that the TEA Party could acquire real power,
    and govern in the manner that they espouse.
    Why, that would mean that a lot (nearly all) of the drones in DC would actually have to go-forth,
    into the land, and find real employment that contributes to society’s well-being.
    It is truly a frightening thought – to them.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b0aaae)

  145. Yup, Drew.

    The leviathan must grow. The bailouts must continue. The goodies must not be threatened. That’s why Romney is out complaining that Perry might take their entitlements away.

    I wish Paul Ryan were running and had a bit of executive experience.

    My favorite ticket is Perry/Ryan, now that Christie is endorsing Romney. I need to accept that 100% of the established GOP will endorse Romney. The decision has been made, he’s next in line, and we should just do what we’re told.

    I don’t want to.

    If Perry were elected and we saw a balanced budget amendment, and entitlement reform, I suspect some of these guys would change parties and become democrats. That’s how firmly they believe in the status quo.

    It’s going to be so hard to achieve effective budget reform, and flip floppers obviously won’t bother trying.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  146. Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/10/2011 @ 5:27 am

    His handlers should rig Perry up with a portable oxygen tank to help increase the flow of oxygen to his brain. that would help to keep him alert during the debates.

    No, but he could have a insulin nasal spray. It is important that the concentration should not be too high too low. 20 IU of insulin is about right.

    To be fair, he should offer it to the candidates on the stage too. And if they can recognize a good idea, they will accept..

    Here’s the background:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/health/research/13alzheimers.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=insulin%20nasal%20spray&st=cse

    The point here is this is not just good for Alzheimer’s.

    Or he could simply take a cup of coffee or two or a caffeine pill.

    http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20100127/coffee-break-boosts-memory

    http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/health/2009/07/06/2009-07-06_coffee_may_help_treat_memory_loss_a_major_symptom_of_al.html

    Studies have found that giving lab mice the equivalent of 500 milligrams of caffeine per day had a positive impact on their memory, according to CBS’ The Early Show.

    The researchers found that the caffeine had “a very positive effect on their memory and thinking actions over a two-month period,” Dr. Jennifer Ashton told The Early Show. “So put another one in the column of a good effect of caffeine.”

    [500 milligrams] is the same as drinking 14 cups of tea, 20 cola drinks or two cups of very strong coffee.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)

  147. Black tea is stronger. I think six cups is 500 mgs of caffeine.

    What I love about coffee is that it’s tasty and interesting to drink, but lacks calories.

    Frankly, I think any debate advise to Perry is futile. He’s just not as good at this as the others are. There’s no hiding it. If that’s your basis for voting, don’t vote for Perry.

    I think he’s been much better in one on one debates, but he’s just not good with gotchas and he takes the criticism personally. He was genuinely stunned when Bachmann claimed he was bought for $5000. He was flabbergasted and could only say ‘if that’s what you think… I am offended’. And I understand that. the guy just doesn’t think the same way as these others. He thinks you show you’re ready to be president by leading properly.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  148. My favorite ticket is Perry/Ryan

    My favorite would have as VEEP, someone with all of the fine qualities embodied in “Nurse Ratched”, to keep the “inmates” in line.

    An all female cast to shake up the Establishment:

    Sarah Palin – President;
    Janice Rogers Brown – VEEP.
    It’s a three-fer!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b0aaae)

  149. Perry has already rejected amnesty. That is not his position on immigration.

    Immigration, not Social Security, is the 3rd rail of U.S. politics. (Touch it and you die)

    Rick Perry was the only of the Reoublican candidates who answered somewhat a New York Daily News question. (He also showed he knew something about the issue)

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2011/10/11/2011-10-11_gop_immigration_dodge.html

    GOP presidential contenders fear taking a stand on deportation of blameless Nadia Habib

    Nadia Habib is no one to the members of the Republican presidential field.

    To find out how the GOP contenders would apply America’s immigration law, the Daily News Editorial Board asked the would-be Presidents whether the U.S. should deport the 20-year-old New Yorker, an illegal resident.

    Given their party’s hard line on immigration – no path to citizenship for the undocumented, no guest-worker program, no allowances for people brought in illegally as children – it seemed logical that the candidates would back sending her to Bangladesh. But would they?

    Would they see merit in throwing out a young woman who was brought from that country at less than 2 years of age and who grew up to graduate from Bronx High School of Science and to attend SUNY Stony Brook?

    Would they think it wise to separate Nadia from her father, who works as a taxi driver and earned permanent legal residence, and to part her, as well, from three siblings who were born here and are thus citizens?

    Would they also call for expelling Nadia’s mother, Nazmin, who came in 1993 to reunite with her husband, bringing their daughter with her?

    Mitt Romney, Rick Perry, Herman Cain, Michele Bachmann, Rick Santorum, Ron Paul, Newt Gingrich and Jon Huntsman answer untold numbers of questions every week.

    They have taken stances on immigration issues, with Texas Gov. Perry catching heat for approving in-state tuition for illegal residents at his state’s public colleges.

    Yet, as Nadia and Nazmin were about to be booted, only Perry ventured a response. What he offered was gobbledegook:

    “There are processes in place for determining whether individuals should be granted temporary and/or permanent status in the U.S. based on numerous criteria that consider our laws, the country of origin, the personal circumstances, any need for asylum and other factors. This case should be treated no differently.”

    This is not gobbledegook. The Daily News only shows its limited knowledge of the law. The
    law contains provisions for deferment (amnesty in other words)

    Perry was saying the law should take its course, but might not be so bad for her. He was saying that this should be left to bureaucrats to decide on a case by case basis.

    After the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency granted Nadia and Nazmin a one-year stay of deportation,

    As explained here: http://online.wsj.com/article/AP17af2bdebc9e462d8b5bb3ba81dbae21.html

    Not sure what this was based on. I think may have a little to do with Obama’s policy.

    we put a second question to the Republicans:

    Did they believe that ICE should review deportation files with an eye toward granting reprieves to illegal immigrants like Nadia and Nazmin?

    This time, only Paul’s campaign responded, and the answer was “No comment.”

    The Republicans’ dodging exemplifies the gap between the party’s all-enforcement position and the realities of life in a country with 11 million illegal residents.

    Immigration has been a boon to America, nowhere more so than in New York. Here, a new study shows, almost half of small-business owners are foreign-born. Across the country, farming and other industries depend heavily on immigrant labor.

    Meanwhile, America’s universities are awarding advanced degrees in science and technology to thousands of the best and brightest from other countries and then sending them home to compete against U.S. businesses.

    Allowing Nadia and Nazmin to stay while they seek permanent residency was clearly the right call. But the Republicans hadn’t the nerve to speak up for either sound policy or human decency.

    They dare not support the DREAM Act, which would give children brought here illegally a path to citizenship as long as they have good records as students, workers and neighbors.

    Nor do the Republicans have the courage to endorse comprehensive immigration reform of the kind proposed by former President George W. Bush, because their base does not stand for such sensible thinking.

    They are left to wish away Nadia, although she – and millions like her – are not going anywhere.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)

  150. Seems Michael Isikoff just gave the other candidates ammunition for tonights debate. Not to mention that the Boston Globe is reporting on a clear example of “crony capitalism” perpetrated by Spencer Zwick, a Romney insider that used the donor list from Romney’s last campaign to recruite millions of bucks for a new venture capital endeavor that is benefitting Romney’s son Tag quite well (what was it? $16 million, I believe).

    Was the “pay to play” scam legal? Only the SEC can determine that, but as a candidate, I damn sure would be requesting a ruling on the Romney’s connection, and his donor’s connections, to Solamere.

    So a less than $30K donation to Perry’s campaign fund, over a 10 year length of time, is crony capitalism but Romney’s campaign manager building a venture capital firm that netted Romney’s son, Tag, double digit millions is not?

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  151. Drew, Palin as president would be so much better than what I think we’re headed for.

    It’s amazing how much the Alaska GOP fought her, merely for being honest. I learned a lot watching Murkowski and how the GOP reacted to her.

    Reform is going to be nearly impossible.

    What’s annoying is the establishment does not actually value party unity if we nominate a conservative. They constantly sandbagged conservatives in 2010. I even fell for some of it, though in good faith.

    If Palin were nominated (Obviously she’s not going to run, but imagine) I honestly think many of the Steve Schmidts out there would support democrats instead.

    I recall Ann Coulter warning us she would support Hillary Clinton unless we nominated the right guy in 2008, when I think Clinton was the likely Dem nominee.

    Some of these people roll their eyes at the idea of the USA having no deficit anymore, and cutting sacred cow agencies as Perry has in Texas. They want elites. I recall Ann Coulter criticizing Harriet Miers specifically because she didn’t graduate from the right university. That’s not the Republican party’s core, is it? We didn’t like Miers because she had no experience, not because she wasn’t gilded.

    Sarah Palin highlighted this particular fracture in the party better than anyone else has.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  152. retire, I would bet my house that similar connections are how Mitt funded Bain. Which I admit he (or at least someone working for Romney) did a great job with, but the dude was born connected to a political dynasty. These people are protecting their own.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  153. Coulter was (is) a Romney supporter, although she briefly flirted with Christie, who quite nearly
    opposed every one of her stated policy views,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  154. $16MM?
    You call that Crony Capitalism?
    This is Crony Capitalism….
    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46761

    One Point Two BILLION Dollars, to build a solar cell/panel plant in Mexico, and make healthy enough for a friendly takeover by a French Oil Co.

    Of course, there also is this…
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/oct/10/pelosis-disclosure-belated-in-husbands-land-deal/

    Where it takes the GentleLady from San Francisco 15-some years to divulge one of her husband’s real-estate deals.

    You people aren’t even talking about coffee money.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b0aaae)

  155. Sammy, you’re right. Perry’s answer re Nadia seems reasonable to me.

    It’s certainly not goobledeegook. There’s nothing confusing or weird about it. It’s actually what I’d expect Perry to say, given his answers on other controversial legal questions. He doesn’t believe in special emotional string pulling. If the process is OK, let it do its thing. If the process is not OK, fix the process instead of pulling strings for the media favored cases.

    His answer reflects experience with leading a large government. You can’t micromanage it.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  156. Another Drew, we all know that the Democrats believe in crony capitalism. Romney claims not to. But the reports coming out today on the actions of Spencer Zwick and Romney’s son, Taggart, screams “CRONY CAPITALISM.”

    What would you call it when one of Romney’s lead campaign staff is tapping donors for $10 million each?

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  157. Until he’s got a govt position, and the power to block whatever’s being proposed, I would call him an entrepreneur.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b0aaae)

  158. Until he’s got a govt position, and the power to block whatever’s being proposed, I would call him an entrepreneur.

    Comment by Another Drew – Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! — 10/11/2011 @ 12:42 pm

    Fair enough. But what’s the Romney presidency going to be like. The Romney MA government gave lots of power to Bain executives.

    To be honest, I doubt Perry will be substantially different. These politicians will empower their allies, Andrew Jackson style. Bush did this too.

    On the campaign trail, Romney has savaged Obama’s proposed Medicare cuts—the sign “keep your hands off our Medicare” is “absolutely right,” he insists—and he has attacked Perry for questioning the constitutionality of Social Security.

    Romney actually wants to spend MORE on things. Seriously, we can’t nominate this guy. The nation needs to spend LESS.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  159. He is literally criticizing Obama for not spending enough on entitlements.

    That’s Romney.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  160. The Romney MA government gave lots of power to Bain executives…,

    and they did what with that power and responsibility?

    Virtually all GOP administrations bring in ex-CEO’s and other business types to manage the bureaucracy – this is one of the problems currently in that very few of Obama’s minions have any private-sector experience.
    Why would this be a problem with Romney?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b0aaae)

  161. 151. Wild-card write-in campaign.

    Coerce her, “It’s you or Levi”.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  162. 161. Wildcat

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  163. and they did what with that power and responsibility?

    To be perfectly honest, the ones I’m most familiar with did a good job, actually, and Romney was right to empower his wealthy campaign supporters and business associates.

    Why would this be a problem with Romney?/blockquote>

    Well, in MA, Romney did not really take the unions on, despite one of his Bain associates trying very hard to do so. So I suppose the real problem here is that the wrong guy was in charge.

    We need someone who can take the heat of the kinds of reforms that must be made for this nation to get on the right track.

    this is one of the problems currently in that very few of Obama’s minions have any private-sector experience.

    Yes, that’s true. And that is Romney’s sole strong argument. He has met many payrolls and has an understanding of the business world.

    However, it’s my opinion that Romney would do much better providing his insight to someone willing to execute without pandering.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  164. Romney will say anything to get elected.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  165. “Apparently Romney’s Romneycare advisers helped out at the White House. Gee, I wonder what they helped Obama do. Gee. Maybe it had something to do with what Romney deleted from his book. What was that again? Romneycare is a model for the whole country?”

    Dustin – I’m really loving how the media and Perry camp are lapping up this story today. Holy crap, three advisers! If the Obama Administration was really interested in learning about the bill, I wonder why they did not consult with the Heritage Organization. Didn’t they help Romney design it?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  166. Daley Rocks has consistently supported his arguments with facts and displayed a lack of emotion that others would do well to emulate.

    Just the facts, please. No “re-purposing” of the comments of others… no convenient re-interpretation of what was stated… and no more goddam cheerleading! Make your case on the merits.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  167. Chris Christie endorses Romney. I wonder how much that spendthrift liberal jackass had to pay Christie for that endorsement?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  168. Exactly, daley… Obama says ‘jump!”, they ask, “how high?”

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  169. Thank you Colonel.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  170. Uh you just insulted Romney without knowing it dumbass Haiku.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  171. “And – in my humble opinion – that is Romney’s sole strong argument. He has met many payrolls and has an understanding of the business world.”

    T… IFTFY

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  172. take pride, dohbiden… you wrote that with zero misspellings.

    Baby steps…

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  173. Daley Rocks has consistently supported his arguments with facts and displayed a lack of emotion that others would do well to emulate.

    Insane.

    Dustin – He is very, very big on crony capitalism. More emerges on this every day.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/22/2011 @ 7:09 pm

    He never backed that up.

    I’m wondering how creepy panty sniffer EPWJ will react when the rumors of Rick Perry being gay are proven true.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/19/2011 @ 10:11 pm

    He never backed that up.

    What is obvious is that Perry’s onerous opt out procedure for the government needle of sex, making it a quasi mandate, was what was objectionable to a large number of people. For some reason, creepy panty sniffer EPWJ and Rick Perry think the sex lives of our teenage girls should involve the government through a mandate process. Who is in/who is out. Given creepy panty sniffer EPWJ’s comments about the sex lives of Bristol Palin and her mother, I really don’t want to speculate further on his reasons.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/19/2011 @ 11:44 am

    Needle of sex? Yeah.

    EPWJ – Rick Perry seems to have a creepy obsession about the sex lives of teenage girls. Should we be concerned? Hmmmmmm.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/15/2011 @ 9:30 am

    Sadly, when I started criticizing Romney, Daley went from buddy to screaming about who I’m having sex with and calling me a liar repeatedly, even though I have made a habit of backing up my assertions with facts.

    Most of these facts are ignored or dismissed.

    Such as Daley laughing off Romney’s Romneycare advisers helping Obama facilitate Obamacare in twelve meetings.

    This is a pretty solid refutation of the claim Romneycare wasn’t a model for Obamacare. It was, in fact, the direct ancestor for it, and that is why Romney deleted that passage from his book.

    Sorry, Haiku, but you won’t find me making sleazy comments about Romney like Daley has above. If you really think those are sober and factual, that is disappointing. I’ve thought you were a cut above Daleyrocks’s hysteria lately. I have no idea what about Perry scares daley so much because his claims about Perry being chicago level corrupt have never been backed up.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  174. And I’m sorry, but if daley’s defense is that it’s OK to smear perry with hysterical and emotional lies because EPWJ bashed Sarah Palin, that is certainly not ‘a lack of emotion’.

    Again, I wouldn’t stoop to saying that kind of stuff about Romney. If I did, I’m guessing you guys wouldn’t like it very much.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  175. So how’s that “we’ve got to be above bigotry and it is within our grasp” feeling spreading today?

    Who’s willing to take a bullet for that religion(tho I suspect a number might freely deliver one)?

    Bachmann is the whole-hog Christianist in this contest(yes, and also a frequent embarrassment, but set that aside for a moment).

    Is there any doubt that bigotry isn’t involved in her popularity in one demographic and unpopularity in others? Are you really so highly evolved?

    Homo Sapiens’ cranial capacity has been shrinking for at least 20,000 years since Cro Magnon man.

    The answer isn’t to believe horsesh*t like we can get beyond the impulse to self-preservation, e.g., bigotry.

    WTFU

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  176. Doh, ‘any doubt that bigotry is involved’.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  177. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  178. “Perry has performed poorly in all four of the GOP debates in which he has participated. Even the candidate himself seems to acknowledge that debates can only hurt his campaign. So why show up? The Perry campaign is telling every reporter who will listen that debates don’t matter. OK. If they really believe that, then why have Perry show up at all? Why not just work crowds, raise money, and run TV and web ads? We know Perry can’t debate, so let the headlines be about what he CAN do.”

    http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/morning-examiner-perry-should-just-stop-debating

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  179. Comment by Dustin — 10/11/2011 @ 11:54 am

    Sammy, you’re right. Perry’s answer re Nadia seems reasonable to me.

    It’s certainly not goobledeegook. There’s nothing confusing or weird about it. It’s actually what
    I’d expect Perry to say, given his answers on other controversial legal questions. He doesn’t believe in special emotional string pulling. If the process is OK, let it do its thing. If the process is not OK, fix the process instead of pulling strings for the media favored cases.

    His answer reflects experience with leading a large government. You can’t micromanage it.

    Actually, that’s not such a good answer, because
    here’s what the situation really is:

    1) The process really isn’t OK.

    2) And it is heavily affected by publicity (because it is so discretionary for one thing)
    Endorsements from elected officials are believed to help too.

    3) But it is far from enforce the law to the hilt, and in fact leans heavily toward letting people stay, albeit many times for limited periods of time.

    In many cases litigation can drag on for years so as long as someone is not in jail. They may live with it somewhat satisfactorily, and even get permission to work while claims of asylum or what not are being pursued. Lawyers matter a great deal since there is legal minefield to walk through.

    That is, for those presently in the United States.

    4) But it is rather strongly against for anyone outside the United States, or who has already been deported.

    To coin, a phrase Physical presence is 90% of the law.

    5) Although in the case of marriage (but not of a parent of a child) there are “extreme hardship” waivers where somebody would otherwise be eligible to immigrate, and all (genuine of course) marriages qualify.

    6) Extreme hardship to a U.S. citizen child is grounds for a waiver if the bar to immigration is criminal activity, but not if the cause is unlawful presence in the United States – then only extreme hardship to spouse counts. Yes, overstaying a visa is treated more seriously than committing a felony.

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)


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