Patterico's Pontifications

9/22/2011

Is the Perry boom over? [Update: Debate Thread!]

Filed under: 2012 Election — Karl @ 2:37 pm

[Posted by Karl]

That’s the question being asked in advance of tonight’s nationally televised GOP debate in Orlando, FL.  Most of the people asking think the answer is yes.  I still do not think the race is greatly influenced by debates few watch, based on the current polling numbers.

Take a look at the interactive graph on the GOP campaign at RCP.  Rick Perry zooms upward and reaches a peak of 31.8% on Sept. 12.  On that date, the prior frontrunner, Mitt Romney, is at 19.8%.  Today, Perry stands at 28.4%, while Romney is at 20.6%  Perry has dropped 3.4% from a peak; Romney has gained less than 1% during the period.  Indeed, if you study the graph a bit closer, you will notice that Perry and Romney will occasionally rise and fall together, based on which polls are in the mix at a given moment.

Of course, the campaign ultimately does not depend on these national numbers. In Florida, the site of tonight’s debate, one might hypothesize that Romney’s attacks on Perry over Social Security would be particularly salient. But the recent Florida polls show about the same results as the national numbers: Perry drops 3, Mitt gains 2, with Perry +6 overall.  Perry is fourth in New Hampshire, but those a head of him – Romney, Huntsman and Paul — are probably better fits for that state ideologically or regionally (Romney also leads big in Connecticut).  In South Carolina, Perry leads, with roughly the same amount of support since the end of August, but Romney has gained more than he has nationally (it would be interesting to tote up how much time each has spent in-state this month).  In the bellwether state of Missouri, Perry leads by 16 points.  In the purplish state of Virginia, Perry leads by 6 points.

In sum, Perry’s trendline is no longer a hockey stick.  On the other hand, Romney has not gained much during the period.  What this tells us is that Perry is not the second coming of Reagan… but we all knew that from the start, didn’t we?  The basic dynamic of the campaign remains largely unchanged.  Perry could end up not wearing well with the electorate.  But the conventional wisdom is rushing to that conclusion faster than the numbers warrant.

Update:  Just because they don’t affect the overall campaign all that much doesn’t mean a debate can’t be solid entertainment! Consider this your debate discussion thread…

–Karl

299 Responses to “Is the Perry boom over? [Update: Debate Thread!]”

  1. Did you know Rick Perry had a one night stand with Ron Artest AKA Meta World Peace?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  2. I don’t want the Second-Coming of Reagan;
    what I want is the First-Coming of the Obama-Defeater!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (d32895)

  3. Today’s LA Times front page story is devoted to the assertion that Perry has adopted the nonverbal, body language of Ronald Reagan.

    Well, there you go again.

    AZ Bob (7d2a2c)

  4. And after Perrybush sinks in the polls, Romney will retake front runner status with 22% of the vote. It just seems like no matter what, the GOP can’t establish a real front runner. Romney seems stuck at 18% to 24%. That is why the Obama vs name-your-RINO always show a close race despite the unpopularity of Obama. That is how Jerry Brown became CA governor again last November. The GOP insisted on running a liberal Democrat that people liked even less than the most unpopular politician in CA.

    Pasadena Phil (7bc659)

  5. From your lips to DWS’ ear, Phil.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (d32895)

  6. Perry’s numbers started dropping when he came under attack for the Merck Gardisil controversy and Romney seems to be the one who benefited from that.

    BT (9084bb)

  7. Pasadena,RomneyMccain is no conservative you moaning lisa.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  8. Romney is the guy who never takes a stand on anything. It frustrates me that this works in politics. The guy is the consummate politician. I can’t imagine how he would handle a war. There’s no way he’d hold the line on a tough political battle. In my opinion.

    Perry’s the guy who takes stands, some of them incorrect, but generally principled. He’s lost support over this, I think. To some extent, it’s justified.

    We’ll see what happens. Both will have enough funding to explain who they are to the early primary voters.

    I think Romney’s fade to Huck and Mccain came for a reason. The guy is simply a hard sell to voters, and he would be one in the general election, too. Yes, he’s trying very hard not to offend anyone, but we want a leader.

    If the debates decide the outcome, it’s going to be Newt. Or Romney, who does look presidential as he avoids saying anything everyone doesn’t agree with.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  9. Glenn Rice has a mancrush on Rachel Mancow.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  10. BT,

    The point of the post is that those atatcks have cost Perry only a few points, and that Romney has barely benefited from the attacks, if at all. Less than 1% is margin of error stuff, even for a poll average.

    Karl (37b303)

  11. The entire GOP field sucks. And tonight we have the latest edition of a “pots and pans calling everyone else black avalanche” known as “The GOP Debates” where one liberal Democrat RINO after another tries to win the conservative mantle by pointing out how liberal the others are.

    This is no way to have elections.

    Pasadena Phil (7bc659)

  12. Romney is blancmange, although it hasn’t been determined if he is from the planet Skyron in the galaxy of Andromeda.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  13. He’s from Planet Fingerinthewind

    DohBiden (d54602)

  14. Perry is better than Romney. If Romney does get the nominee, the Republican Party will lose the election in 2012. Romney is so liberal like the Democrats.

    ml (aa7950)

  15. Then again….

    http://minx.cc/?post=321724

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  16. 94 >>> . The Gardasil debacle

    Sigh.

    All those INNOCENT. LITTLE. GIRLS.

    Who wouldn’t have had cervical cancer.

    Freedom to have cancer– now THAT’S What America’s all about!!!

    Posted by: ace at September 22, 2011 06:46 PM (nj1bB)

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  17. Romney will do well in the pansy states but in real America I think he’s gonna struggle

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  18. When did Palin say that EricPWhappyfeet?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  19. Epwj is truly the dummest person on the innertubes. Objectively. GoodAllah.

    JD (7c90f3)

  20. Ace has truly jumped the shark with that retarded comment.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  21. This is no way to have elections.
    Comment by Pasadena Phil — 9/22/2011 @ 4:50 pm

    That’s why you should stay over on The Left with your buds Phil, they change election routines every cycle, and go from bad to worse, but at least you’ll be able to see a lot of different systems.
    Republicans are just a bunch of stick-in-the-muds, who seem to have found a routine they’re comfortable with, and keep muddling through.
    But, you do know that Winston Churchill once said that “Democracy is the worst of all possible systems; except for the others(sic).”

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (d32895)

  22. Jeezusss Did Romney just say he was going to raise taxes on the rich – I must have miss heard

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  23. Romney Stuttering?

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  24. Woah did the man who gave Scozzafava some verbal fellatio despite her being supported by the militant tax and spenders just ask that question without looking in the mirror?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  25. Governor Perry reassures those on Social Security… have no fear, says he, if you are already a part of the Ponzi scheme, there will be no change for you.

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  26. What???… 81% of those Texas jobs went to immigrants, and of those, 40% to illegal immigrants?

    You don’t say!

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  27. Perry is diminishing himself, his attacks on Romney strike sour notes, and his appearance doesn’t measure up.

    ropelight (ffc50d)

  28. hey kids! it’s time for
    PeeWee Johnson’s Playhouse you
    must hide the Jergen’s

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  29. Well gaw-aw-aw-awly, Governor Perry!

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  30. well… if it ain’t the
    tired, little old lady, Phil,
    from Pasadena

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  31. “Perry’s the guy who takes stands”

    Dustin – He is very, very big on crony capitalism. More emerges on this every day.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  32. You say that like it’s a bad thing!

    Dustin, VP of Merck Truth Enhancement (b2fb78)

  33. Not watching, but seeing a lot of nice comments on Twitter for Santorum, so I expect he’ll be vaulting into front-runner status shortly.

    No?

    Karl (37b303)

  34. Perry is very America Romney looks to be aiming to corral the supercilious muppet vote

    google problem boy is going to hyperventilate if he doesn’t slow down

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  35. right with Newt, Karl.

    I was too busy to watch this one.

    Ropelight makes it sound like Perry didn’t do it right.

    Dustin, VP of Merck Truth Enhancement (b2fb78)

  36. Bachmann has a certain quaaludey charm tonight

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  37. Meanwhile, Allahpundit notes no questions on the Dow plunge or the EU economic crisis.

    Karl (37b303)

  38. Dustin – I’m serious. One website had a big piece out on it yesterday or today. Forget which site. It sounded almost Chicago bad.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  39. I just tuned in to a soldier in uniform (Army PT) asking politicians about gay rights.

    That is absolutely unacceptable. Absolutely ridiculous. What in the hell?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  40. Perry is the latest example of how the right needs to get over this love at first sight, “rock star of the month” foolishness.

    Someone comes out with a viral YouTube or a resume that looks great on the surface and we fall in love with him. Then after a month of vetting all the crap comes out and we’re either back on the hunt for a real conservative or having psychotic episodes trying to defend him. Rick Perry could lob a grenade into an old folks’ home and the Perry ‘Pologists would find some way to make it “non-issue.”

    CrustyB (d4da92)

  41. Dustin,

    I know you’re kidding, but I also saw props for Newt by people who think debates matter. *Sigh.*

    Karl (37b303)

  42. Dustin – I’m serious. One website had a big piece out on it yesterday or today. Forget which site. It sounded almost Chicago bad.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/22/2011 @ 7:18 pm

    OK. I’ll look into it. We need a reformer, not another crook. Sounds like a serious matter.

    Romney’s flip flopping is not corruption. It’s just unprincipled and lame.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  43. Mr. Feets – You’re my go to guy. Does gardasil get rid of crabs?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  44. an old folks’ home in which district?

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  45. The Dow hates Teh Won.

    JD (10025c)

  46. Oh to hell with this.

    Good evening folks. I’m going to play Demon’s Souls.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  47. People next door cooking ‘em for dinner.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  48. The world’s going to Hell in a handbasket, which must be why I see the questions are now about DADT and abortion.

    God forbid the media – even FNC – miss a chance to dwell on social issues.

    Karl (37b303)

  49. gardasil has actually marketed under the CrabAway! brand since late 2009 Mr. daley

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  50. What no Deus Ex?

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  51. oops *been* marketed I mean

    this debate is distracting

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  52. “Rick Perry could lob a grenade into an old folks’ home and the Perry ‘Pologists would find some way to make it “non-issue.””

    CrustyB – I live in Jan Schakowsky’s district. There some homes here that Perry could take out that would help out Joel Pollak if he runs again next time. No issue.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  53. Perry also mandated that all pregnant hoochies what want an abortion have to watch a sonogram –

    but you never hear this bachmann wackadoodle whining about that do you no

    no you don’t

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  54. I see we’ve reached the Gadrisil round of the debate.

    No wonder the markets are collapsing.

    Karl (37b303)

  55. Thank you Mr. Feets. I was not sure if it was marketed as a spice or repellant like for the cancers.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  56. The Romney “boom” will be over at the first primary. I don’t think he’ll get the votes he expects in Iowa despite the expenditures he’ll have made. And the first non-caucus primary will shut him down for good.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  57. Mr. Feets – Where’s the fun in that unless you could watch a sonogram of your abortion.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  58. I had to stumble away from my TV before Perry could finish mangling that last statement of his. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  59. I agree… it just shouldn’t be mandated Mr. daley

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  60. Did someone slip Perry a mickey?

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  61. DAve’s sharp, because he went to Oxford, what was his first clue,

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  62. “before he dayed that before or before…”

    Colonel had to flee… he couldn’t be associated with such flippin’ fookuppery!

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  63. Perry continuing to undermine himself, he’s doubling down on taking petty shots at Romney. It’s not working.

    ropelight (ffc50d)

  64. Families sitting in their room with job application forms, thinking “is this suit blue or black”?

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  65. Romney’s a shameless ponzi scheme apologist

    it’s very painful to watch

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  66. Ooh, Perry counts #1 as his thumb, just like the socialist Europeans.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  67. that’s an aggie thing I think

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  68. lulz – tell that to mr. tarantino.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  69. Wait – Santorum is in the debate? WTF? I thought he ended when Howard Stern renamed bowel movements as “Santorum.” Yuck.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  70. Perry knows exactly where that thumb belongs, carlitos, and how often it’s parked.

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  71. I really like Herman Cain.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  72. I really like cornbread

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  73. Romney won the debate, Perry hurt himself, the others did OK. The debate was entertaining and informative. Congratulations to FOX NEWS.

    ropelight (ffc50d)

  74. “Rick Perry is…not smooth in these debates. He had a prepared coup de grace on Romney’s flip-flopping and he lost his train of thought in the middle. It was painful.”

    - JPodhoretz

    Describing it as “painful” doesn’t quite capture that moment. It was as if he was truly bumfuzzled.

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  75. Bumfuzzled on “Night Train”…

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  76. MKH looks lovely.

    Tea Party guy looks like Captain Morgan.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  77. Romney’s shameless demagoguery on in-state tuition and on social security cemented my inability to ever cast a vote for him

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  78. OK, I’m taking a break from the game for a sec.

    Did Romney win this debate like he won the last two that Newt actually won? Was he actually the most effective voice for change, or just the guy selling practically nothing but easy shots at the opposing political party?

    I’ll be shocked if anything Romney said constitutes leadership in any way shape or form. Probably just attacks on how easy it is to be a tremendously successful governor.

    Perry mumbling and failing to connect is something I totally believe, though I didn’t personally see. Folks clearly aren’t enthusiastic about Perry like I am. Such is life. Hopefully Daley’s corruption concerns do not turn into something serious, because I really hope we nominate a leader instead of merely a guy who poses on TV really well.

    I think folks should reconsider Newt. Is that ridiculous? It feels ridiculous, but I think he would be OK in a general election.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  79. “Reconsider Newt.”

    Yup. Sounds ridiculous.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  80. I work with several folks who have worked with Frank Luntz. Don’t ever confuse what he does with fact.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  81. Romney tried to just dismiss every critique, Perry needs to be sharper,

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  82. Yeah. The dude promoted scozzafava and global warming goofiness. I should know better.

    But while I only caught 5 minutes of this one before I got annoyed (with the utter irrelevance of the questions in these times) I think Newt is clearly the best debater. Romney is smooth, Newt is smooth AND a leader. There’s a big difference. Perry is a leader, but is not smooth.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  83. What’s Thompson doing these days???

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  84. Perry is the most reassuring one to where I think we could put him in our little white house and not have to watch him every second

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  85. When I first saw Karl’s post, I figured Perry’s numbers were going down because of the EPWJ sex scandal rumor flying around the nets.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  86. Bobby Jindahl??

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  87. I just realized I once again was too stupid to realize Daley was being sarcastic. I’m sorry, Daley, but I just can’t read your jokes in EPWJ’s voice. I just can’t do it, man. Consider it a compliment.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  88. It is sad when it is so hard to find a good stand-in for “Anyone but Obama”.

    What is needed is someone who doesn’t listen to the consultants, who isn’t worried about running a campaign, and just wants to tell people with conviction what he/she stands for and will do.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  89. Romney’s shameless demagoguery on in-state tuition and on social security cemented my inability to ever cast a vote for him

    Comment by happyfeet

    I consider that high praise, indeed. He can probably live without the PalinDerangementSyndromeTastyVeganPancakeEatin’ vote.

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  90. I think folks should reconsider Newt. Is that ridiculous? It feels ridiculous, but I think he would be OK in a general election.

    Dustin, I have been doing just that and I feel a bit dirty for it but…he is clearly the smartest politician up there and with a boatload of experience. He also knows inside Washington like the back of his hand. I would back him in a heartbeat. And yet I wouldn’t feel very good about it.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  91. What’s needed is a debate that focuses on the abyss America has found itself gazing into after nearly three years of the most incompetent administration ever.

    Enough of the immigration/vaccination/homofication of the nation.

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  92. Romney- I Wanna Be Your Man
    Huntsman- Help!
    Gingrich- I Am The Walrus
    Perry- The Fool On The Hill
    Paul- Magical Mystery Tour
    Bachmann- Dizzy Miss Lizzy
    Santorum- Nowhere Man
    Cain – I’m Down
    Johnson- Hello, Goodbye

    Honorable Mention: Ronald Reagan-Yesterday
    Dishonorable Mention- Barack Obama- All You Need Is Love

    Big winners- Romney, deficating dogs, The Beatles
    Big losers- Perry, Rick Perry and Governor Rick Perry

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  93. Romney’s corner applied the vaseline and Palooka Perry laid nary a glove on him before tiring in the 5th round.

    He just doesn’t have the wit, or the stamina.

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  94. Happyfeets mom already aborted him he is just a living form of energy.

    I don’t think Perry has a crony captialism rpoblem.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  95. Speakin’ of Big Losers, ladies and gents… I give you DCSCA.

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  96. He can probably live without the PalinDerangementSyndromeTastyVeganPancakeEatin’ vote.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 9/22/2011 @ 8:12 pm

    But there’s the trick. Those who don’t want a demogogue will be less enthusiastic. So will conservatives. And there will be a greater chance of a third party.

    And if it’s clear the GOP is totally incapable of being the reform we urgently need, for example on entitlements, then it becomes necessary to consider voting republican. Sure, that will be a short term disaster. But if it’s necessary…

    Don’t get me wrong, I’ll vote Romney if he’s the nominee. I’ll do more than vote, too. But nominating Romney seems incredibly risky. He is George HW Bush.

    Is Perry more serious about reforming entitlements? Absolutely he is. Yes, he is finding it challenging to navigate hardcore demagoguery on this issue. The GOP is being somewhat kneecapped away from ever being frank about entitlement reform. I hope that effort fails spectacularly. Paul Ryan is right. Social Security is a ponzi scheme, and even though we can’t just delete it, because we live in a real world of political capital, we must be serious about fixing it.

    Lip service is not enough. We need leaders who will actually do something, even when the going gets tough. Even if it hurts them badly in the polls, which it would.

    If the GOP is not capable of doing that, mark my words, a big chunk of folks will send a message, Christine O’Donnell style, and even though it’ll drive me nuts with the sheer disaster that brings, they will do it anyway.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  97. IMP’s idiocy was inevitable.

    JD (10025c)

  98. That was worthy of the billy madison quote,

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  99. What’s needed is a debate that focuses on the abyss America has found itself gazing into after nearly three years of the most incompetent administration ever.

    yes

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  100. Looks like the Republican Party of Florida needs a new acronym… RPOF looks like a capsule summary of what Obama has been doing to America for the last 33 months.

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  101. Dustin… I say this as a fellow who respects you. Perry had better get his act together or he is toast. He can’t continue to stumble through these debates. barely able to string two, coherent sentences together.

    ColonelHaiku (87d081)

  102. What’s needed is a debate that focuses on the abyss America has found itself gazing into after nearly three years of the most incompetent administration ever.

    Enough of the immigration/vaccination/homofication of the nation.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 9/22/2011 @ 8:16 pm

    Agreed.

    If we’re going to pick a candidate, let’s pick one on the basis of understanding economic issues and foreign policy.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  103. I don’t think any of these folks is truly up to snuff as a reliable Bammy-Beater.

    Bammy will cream Perry in a debate — even if he spouts utter bullsh!!t, O will still come off looking better to more voters. Plus, this whole “whaal, down heah in Texas we do blapblapblap” won’t cut it, when Bamster can retort “well here in the WH we do blapblap for the whole country/planet/galaxy.” A truly shrewd mind could find a way to turn that against him, but I don’t think Perry is that shrewd.

    Newt would best Bammy in debate, but Newt is simply not prexy timber.

    Sigh. Is there somebody else we’ve overlooked? Can a mad scientist transplant Steve Sailer’s brain into Sarah Palin’s skull?

    d. in c. (68ff46)

  104. Dustin… I say this as a fellow who respects you. Perry had better get his act together or he is toast. He can’t continue to stumble through these debates. barely able to string two, coherent sentences together.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 9/22/2011 @ 8:25 pm

    Don’t worry. I’m not taking offense at your analysis. I think you’re being totally honest about this.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  105. Charles Johnson-Perry why do you hate science and black people?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  106. #91: Here we go again. Hating a Republican so much that the person will help Obama be re-elected. Because that’s the choice. I’m sorry to be blunt, but a third party vote now, or not voting at all, helps Obama’s re-election.

    I remember this argument from the last election. I kept getting assured that third party votes, or sitting things out, didn’t help Obama. Except it did.

    So if you do sit it out, or vote third party, you have to own it. Which means you can’t complain about what Obama does, because you helped him.

    I understand that many will disagree with me on this point. But the outcome is the same.

    Me, I would vote for anyone other than Obama. Period. I think his record makes this clear. This is a critical election.

    But not to worry. Many people are going to start saying, no matter who wins the Republican nomination, that (fill in the blank) is no different from Obama.

    Um. How do you say that, looking at his record?

    So here we go again.

    Simon Jester (5d4bc9)

  107. Bachmann – 19th Nervous Breakdown

    Perry – You Can’t Always Get What You Want

    Paul – Sympathy for the Devil

    Romney – All Sold Out

    Newt – Yesterday’s Papers

    Cain – It’s Only Rock and Roll

    Huntsman – Please Go Home

    Santorum – Street Fighting Man

    Johnson – Beast of Burden

    d. in c. (53ef9e)

  108. Of course anyone who supports Israel is far-right.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  109. Romney would only be marginally better thabn Barcky, and would redefine the Right, in a not-good way.

    JD (cae88c)

  110. According to the left if you support Israel your a far righty.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  111. JD, I at least think Romney has a substantial competence advantage over Obama. I sincerely doubt we’ll see anything like Fast and Furious in a Romney administration. His judicial nominations would be way better. Probably kinda like Bush 41′s (not awesome all the time, but sometimes).

    I agree that it would redefine the right, much as a Mccain administration would. Also, Obama has already pushed the government to a large size. We can’t just idly accept that status quo. We have to push it back down.

    Because of this, I do worry that Romney’s policy outcome would wind up being similar to a second term for Obama. That would be the path of least resistance. And a lot of provisions will come to pass during the next term.

    Romney could send a signal this is not true. By calling social security a Ponzi Scheme, for example. Taking some kind of stand that costs him, and proves he’s capable of doing something like this when the going gets tough.

    Perry might not have the wit, but if he’s standing by tough calls that’s because that’s the kind of President he’d be when he signed Paul Ryan’s budget or vetoed a debt ceiling increase. Perry makes tough calls. How many governors cut education spending because we can’t afford to spend more?

    D in C might be right that Perry would fail to outshine Obama. But Bush was often failing to outshine Kerry in debates. It can be very difficult to stand your ground while beating someone who picks whatever ground wins the debate, instead of telling the debate judges something they don’t really want to hear.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  112. No,not the second Obama term, except with Huntsman, but more likely a Nixon or Ford redux.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  113. ==What is needed is someone who doesn’t listen to the consultants, who isn’t worried about running a campaign, and just wants to tell people with conviction what he/she stands for and will do==

    Oh, you mean somebody like the fat man?

    Did y’all see the video of his response to a sixth grader who asked Christie for his advice about running for student council? It was an unscripted moment for Christie and a much more revealing question (from a kid) than most of the questions asked by “the professionals” in the debates.

    elissa (250b6b)

  114. Dustin

    Romneys a Democrat, I know you’re trying to be fair, and now hopeful, but in the end – he’s a democrat. In Mass – he’s a republican, but his stances dont play well outside the east

    Perry has the south and the midwest locked up, if 2 bad debates dont make a difference a 3rd wont – especially one that dwelled on social issues and illegal immigration which – doesnt matter to most people

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  115. Dustin – Ima giver.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  116. I saw Perry as coasting on his laurels, Romney chose
    the ‘rubber your glue’ strategy, which had limited
    success.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  117. Dustin – Incoming

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  118. ==Many people are going to start saying, no matter who wins the Republican nomination, that (fill in the blank) is no different from Obama.
    Um. How do you say that, looking at his record==

    Simon– That crap drives me nuts, too. Unfortunatly, some putative righties will say that, and as far as I am concerned it does not speak well of their intelligence or their powers of discernment. When people do make that sort of statement I can’t help but take their comments and opinions on almost any subject less seriously. ABO!!!

    elissa (250b6b)

  119. Transcript of Perry’s response: “I think Americans just don’t know sometimes which Mitt Romney they’re dealing with. Is it the Mitt Romney that was on the side of…against…the Second Amendment before he was for the Second Amendment…was it was..before he was before these social programs, uh, from the standpoint he was standing, uh, for Roe vs. Wade before he was against Roe, uh, Roe vs. Wade…uh…he was…uh for Race To The Top… Uh…[pause]…he’s for Obamacare and now he’s against it…I mean, we’ll wait until tomorrow and, and, and wait to see which Mitt Romney we’re really talking to…”

    Here’s an idea. Let’s not wait until it’s time to debate President Obama to see if Rick Perry can string some words together into a coherent sentence.

    Mike Sage (232302)

  120. Check out my post-debate analysis:
    “Perry Comes Out Swinging, Knocks Himself Out”
    http://americaneedsmitt.com/blog/2011/09/22/perry-swinging-knocks/

    Mike Sage (232302)

  121. O come now, when Obama is reciting Romney’s own words on Social Security, back to him, he better
    have something better than the ‘argument clinic’
    ;no I didn’t’

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  122. 91: Here we go again. Hating a Republican so much that the person will help Obama be re-elected. Because that’s the choice. I’m sorry to be blunt, but a third party vote now, or not voting at all, helps Obama’s re-election

    Were you really referring to my post at #91, or something else? I wasn’t suggesting a third party, I’m longing for someone to rise up out of the pack and take the Republican nomination. We ought to have a host of candidates everyone feels they can support and calmly discuss relative merits. Instead. we’re worrying about who is going to make the next blunder and make themselves look bad.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  123. want friends to agree
    bumble needs to be thrown out
    of office on ear

    elissa (250b6b)

  124. elena kagan
    and wise latina say “more
    like us wait in wings”

    elissa (250b6b)

  125. Dustin #114 — the real problem with Perry is not his ability to make tough calls, but whether he has the intellectual capacity to understand what and why he should be choosing a particular tough call in a complex situation, and whether he has the acumen and horse sense to actually get it right; and to date I see little evidence that he does. George Bush was called upon to make many “tough calls” and in my view he got nearly all of them disastrously wrong. No one doubts W’s resolve or his grit and determination; but the man was a bloody fool (not an idiot, a fool — they’re different) who mangled every important choice offered to him, and here we all are today. It’s no use thinking that Obama’s malice and blindness in the course of a mere three years are the sources of our current woes; to be sure, Obama magnified all our problems and added to them, and has failed to reverse them — but he didn’t cause them. W did: through lack of depth and insight, and a supernatural knack for p!ss-poor choices which he construed as “tough calls”.

    To take a minor example re Perry: this whole silly HPV vaccine question. Bachmann’s objections to Perry’s initial action are shrill and ridiculous, but Perry seems not really to have understood the legal and philosophical issues indicating why an EO was a wrong and inappropriate policy choice — he seems to have been guided by instinct and gut feeling, and did not seem to have a clear grasp of the true depth and scope of the issue, to say nothing of the fact that other, milder policy options were open to him which would have advanced his goal without a tussle.

    The problems besetting the country at present are severe and very very complex, and it will require a subtle and original mind (as well as a forceful one) to grapple with them successfully. The Texas governorship is constitutionally not overly strong, and the overall business and political culture of Texas contributed the lion’s share of any statewide success Perry lays claim to; it’s simply not the case that it was or is the product of his singular vision. Listening to the man speak, it appears that insofar as he does have a singular vision, it is either far too simplistic or else flat-out wrong.

    In a more peaceful and prosperous time, Perry might have made a good caretaker president. We do not live in that time, and whoever the GOP nominee is, he will have to fight against a lying, dying and desperate MSM which will bite like a cornered rat, as well as the most grim racial politics anyone’s seen in generations. Sad to say because I kinda like the guy, but so far I haven’t seen strong evidence that Perry is up to that challenge. Have you?

    d. in c. (2c1f8a)

  126. Opposition to Islam makes one a far-righty right Perry?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  127. Perry stumbling at the gate only makes Sarah more and more inevitable.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (d32895)

  128. d. in c. – Are you suggesting that the problem with Perry is that you can’t fix stupid?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  129. http://www.examiner.com/transportation-policy-in-san-antonio/perry-his-cronies-the-shelley-cintra-giuliani-connection

    Perry & his cronies: The Shelley-Cintra-Giuliani connection

    Perry & his cronies
    The Shelley-Cintra-Giuliani connection
    By Terri Hall
    Founder, Texans Uniting for Reform and Freedom
    September 21, 2011

    With the pay-to-play Solyundra scandal rocking the White House, presidential hopeful Rick Perry is embroiled in a mountain of crony capitalism controversy all his own. During the September 12 GOP presidential debate, Michelle Bachmann exposed the money trail behind Perry’s Executive Order mandating all 6th grade girls in Texas receive the Gardasil HPV vaccine made by the drug company, Merck, the employer of Perry’s former Chief of Staff, Mike Toomey, at the time. Merck funneled money to Perry, initially $5,000, but eventually adding up to the tidy sum of closer to $400,000, sparking outrage across Texas and now the nation.

    Toomey’s just the tip of the ice berg.

    Terri (e53942)

  130. Pay to play? You think that equating the Solyundra (sic) debacle to the gardasil flap is good political strategy? The Merck connection is worth knowing about and worth checking out, but non-hysterical proportion is helpful to any discussion, too. Words such as “mountain of crony capitalism” and “outrage across the nation” look sort of silly in this context, you know.

    elissa (250b6b)

  131. daleyrocks — I wouldn’t call Perry stupid, that seems excessive. But from what I see so far, I think he lacks the subtlety and sophistication to roundly best Obama considering Bammy’s advantages; and even if he wins I don’t think he has the depth of mind and long-range vision to successfully deal with the USA’s problems. Aside from a sort of broad-side-of-a-barn critique of Social Security that’s good as far as it goes, I’m not even convinced he has a clear understanding of what the problems really are. The national stage is a big one, it’s even bigger than Texas, hard to believe.

    (btw personally I’m a huge fan of the Lone Star State, and I love the people of Texas.)

    d. in c. (ac417f)

  132. Merck funneled money to Perry, initially $5,000, but eventually adding up to the tidy sum of closer to $400,000,

    This is simply a lie.

    That’s the only word for it.

    If you’re adding up all the money Merck contributed to every GOP Governor, and I believe in multiple years, then you reach near that figure. Perry was involved with national level governor fundraising.

    But this overstates what Merck contributed to Perry’s various campaigns by a factor of twenty.

    The only thing Bachmann exposed was her fundamental lack of honesty in relaying a hideous accusation onto Perry about ‘retardation’ that she didn’t bother to verify (or, indeed, fabricated whole cloth).

    No, Gardasil is not a story of corruption. It’s a story of excessive government intervention.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  133. Sad to say because I kinda like the guy, but so far I haven’t seen strong evidence that Perry is up to that challenge. Have you?

    Comment by d. in c. — 9/22/2011 @ 10:54 pm

    I don’t need an elite to worship. I don’t care if he’s polished in the debates. That’s an electability concern, and I think it’s totally legitimate, but I do not think it relates at all to Perry’s ability to actually be an effective president if he were elected.

    I think debate skill these days shows one has rehearsed a few quips and situations and responses to the point of absurdity. It’s like acting. It doesn’t relate at all to leadership skill.

    Actual leadership skill will require one to see the big picture and make effective decisions. I do think Perry is up to that task, easily, because Texas is not nearly as easy to govern as some are claiming it is. Perry’s consistency on spending and taxation and his ability to administer a low drama but highly effective government did not happen automatically.

    Yes, I think Perry’s 11 years running Texas is an indication he is a capable leader. I didn’t see enough to tonight’s debate to give an honest opinion, but I’m sure Perry was as he was in the other two, where I hoped he was just off his game because of his work in Texas.

    I honestly remember Perry being a better debater, but I guess I’m wrong. Or there’s something odd about these last three that totally throws him. Either way, by all means pick your best candidate. Romney carries his own set of issues, simply because he is not credible. Perry appears to carry his, simply because in today’s world, if you speak like a normal human being, you might be seen as stupid.

    it’s simply not the case that it was or is the product of his singular vision.

    Well now you’re establishing a standard no one will ever manage.

    But I’ll tell you one thing, these other people on that stage didn’t even SHARE that vision of conservative leadership. Some of them have really failed to be conservative when it was their time to lead. Perry’s ability to be conservative under pressure is proven. He didn’t increase taxes and spending when it was easy to do, and that laid the groundwork for Texas being sustainable in down times.

    If you, like me, are simply comparing Perry to Romney, it’s an easy call.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  134. I’m not even convinced he has a clear understanding of what the problems really are.

    I suggest you read a transcript of the debates.

    His presentation is shabby, but if you bother to read what he’s saying, it’s clear he has a high level of understanding of most of the issues he’s talking about. Often, the responses he gets show he’s talking over the heads of some of the other candidates.

    That’s not rose colored glasses. I think these days people assume slow means stupid, when it actually means someone is thinking instead of reciting.

    The idea Perry doesn’t understand Social Security or other national issues is misguided. Extremely. This guy understands these issues, the other guys understand how to look ready for prime time on a stage.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  135. I’m referring to the transcripts from the last two. I don’t know about this latest one. Maybe he really screwed it up. He did screw up a global warming question on one.

    But if you’re worried he doesn’t actually understand what the hell is going on, I think that’s putting way too much faith in this gameshow format.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  136. Dustin — those are fair-minded, well-said remarks. I certainly am no fan of Romney, and I agree that Perry is politically more viable, and what one might call personally superior to, all the others on that stage. By a fair amount.

    But I do wish (maybe unrealistically) we had more and better options. Obama is down but not out, not by any means, and his people are going to fight REALLY dirty. He must be ousted, it’s absolutely mission-critical, and it will be a catastrophe if the GOP blows this because they’ve got a candidate with too many Achilles heels.

    Maybe you’re right about Perry; if we can’t do any better then I hope you are. But I have an uneasy feeling like we’d be going all-in on a pair of tens.

    d. in c. (6d8a47)

  137. D in C, it is pretty amazing that this is the best the nation can produce.

    I was expecting Perry to perform so much better in the debates. Didn’t happen, and he’s not perfect. At least we don’t have to worry about a cult of personality forming around our candidate.

    We’ve got a while before we have to settle on anybody, so it’s probably best not to get invested in any of them.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  138. what we’re seeing has less to do with any failing of Mr. Perry than that Team R is not ready for prime time generally – our little country is on the verge of an abyss of Total Fail and Team R is mostly concerned with errant Mexicans and gardasils and they can’t even agree that Social Security is an ungodly fiasco

    what a sad little loser party this Team R has become

    Bachmannses and Santorums and Huntsmans

    oh my

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  139. If you, like me, are simply comparing Perry to Romney, it’s an easy call.

    they both have records you can look at and Mr. Governor Perry’s governing record is way more suited to the challenges America faces

    Romney’s lapdoggish fealty to our embarrassingly insolvent social security ponzi scheme demonstrates that he’s eager to be a failure manager like Obama instead of charting a new course forward.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  140. Dow has had 3rd worst week ever.

    This AM it starts off down 140.

    Please, please quit boring us with “electability”, “outshining Obama”, and all that pantiwaist diarrhea.

    Dead ‘effin Meat.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  141. I want Pawlenty back.

    Amphipolis (b120ce)

  142. Time to face facts: Romney is well ahead of the pack and gaining ground. It is now obvious that unless a dark horse enters the race (Sarah Palin or Chris Christie) to change the trajectory, Romney’s current momentum will eventually propel him to the GOP nomination.

    Romney/Palin 2012

    ropelight (e2d1a9)

  143. If I were Perry’s advisors I would tell him to focus on 3 things: Take your base for granted because if they don’t turn out for you in this election, you’re toast anyway. Try to swing a Dem constituency that you already appeal to, like Hispanics. And don’t energize the other guy’s base.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  144. You mean don’t take your base, for granted. DRJ?

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  145. Romney is inevitable

    there’s simply no stopping him

    he’s a juggernaut of win

    ooh look remember how Mittens was demagoguing and lying about the whole in-state tuition thing in texas?

    Maybe he should tend to his own backyard before spouting his pompous mouf off

    The figures — released by Gov. Deval Patrick’s administration under an order for the Secretary of State’s office and after more than a month of ducking questions — show illegal immigrants who belong to MassHealth Limited received $33.8 million in taxpayer-funded in-patient hospital care this year.

    and does anyone believe that if ickle Romneykins had been presented with the tuition bill in Texas in 2001 he wouldn’t have eagerly signed it?

    Hell yeah he would’ve.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  146. This charge by some that Perry’s not a real conservative is amazingly stupid. By their logic Reagan would have to have been said not to be conservative back in 1980. Many conservatives are not living in the real world any more, kind of like lefties in a way.

    Gerald A (7d960d)

  147. This charge by some that Perry’s not a real conservative is amazingly stupid. By their logic Reagan would have to have been said not to be conservative back in 1980. Many conservatives are not living in the real world any more, kind of like lefties in a way.

    Gerald A (7d960d)

  148. Whoops hit the submit twice. Doesn’t the software catch that?

    Gerald A (7d960d)

  149. Well he did sign a bill opposing in state tuition pikachu, but MassCare was not one of his swifter moves.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  150. in 2001 before he had his little Mittens heart set on the presidency?

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  151. No, when he was Governor.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  152. that was disgusting listening to George Romney’s little boy brag brag brag about how he wasn’t a career politician – no, ickle Romneykins, are a legacy politician with a hugely overinflated and pompous sense of entitlement whose rich connected daddy afforded you the opportunity to pursue the careers of your choice and then segue back into the ruling class position you were born to hold

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  153. *you* are a legacy politician i mean

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  154. 156

    amen!

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  155. I think Newt Gingrich won the debate last night. I rather see Gingrich run for President. Not Romney.

    m (0f62c3)

  156. 149. “[/sarc}Romney is inevitable”

    Yes, Ladies, Morgan Stanley is $39 Billion, its entire capitalization, in hock to 50% undercapitalized French banks.

    Yet, it is 20 days ’til Central Banks of US, Japan, ECB, et al., begin capitalizing these banks with USD spiking world energy and food prices.

    Greece is talking 50% payout of loans due in October. They have to borrow all of that and are not allowing any reports out on the bonds offered yesterday(as in no takers).

    In the last 3 weeks emerging markets like Mexico, have lost 20% on FX markets since Swiss pegged the franc to the euro and is down 25% in USD terms.

    We need corporate raider Mittens as POTUS who can’t even call out NR columnist Judis on the stump for “Hoover slashed government spending and initiated the Depression” as plain horsesh*t.

    We are days from a hard RESET, what do we need with an expert on making himself rich?

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  157. Fox News Bill H just asked romney’s press secretary if he changed the book – bad moments for the romney campaign.

    I saw other affiliates also asking the question – did romney change the book, In Atlanta the big affiliate was asking santorum if he knew that Texas always let illegals attend at the state rate and so does his home state.

    Did Santorum actually think that he could lie up there and no one would find out? Romney too?

    Sure Santorums point is well made – so why didnt he as Governor forbide them from attending or having reduced tuition?

    The Standard for Residency in PA during Santorum is where did you graduate from High School

    Like Kevin said here a few days ago – people sure are brave about illegal immigration farther from the border

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  158. I meant when he was senator, sorry

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  159. Say, wouldn’t it be great if Romney and Palin got un-hitched, then married each other, and ran as a team?

    EPWJ and Mr. Feet would explode.

    It’s always interesting to watch people help Obama win. Because this kind of supercriticality isn’t shared by the Democrats. I wouldn’t care if Team Dem seriously started talking about a primary challenge to BHO.

    But Team R and the Libertarians like to make Axelrod happy.

    Hmmm.

    Of course, I get criticized for this point of view. But I think most people know I am right: Job #1 is getting BHO out of the White House.

    Simon Jester (cd8440)

  160. ian,

    No, I said what I meant. Perry’s biggest problem isn’t the primary, it’s the general election where he will be portrayed as Bush on steroids. He has to risk losing the primary by marginalizing his base.

    Reagan narrowly beat Carter, despite unemployment, the economy, and Iran. Obama is even harder to beat than Carter, so Perry will have to take risks in the primary to have a better chance of winning in the general election.

    DRJ (8b9d41)

  161. Santorum – Virginia Resident?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Santorum

    The part I find ironic about Rick and Mitt is both have serious challenges to their residency and concerns the spending of tax dollars to educate Santorums children

    I know people are squeamish to bring children into play but Santorum should have thought about that before opening his sanctimonious mouth when he cheated PA taxpayers out of tens of thousands of dollars in “Cyber” tuition so his kids could be home schooled while renting his house ii PA

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  162. people sure are brave about illegal immigration Alaska tax policy the farther from the Alaska they live border

    EPWJ – Fixed

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  163. Clearly Perry needs to do better in debates but my point is he has to worry more about how independents view him than conservatives. Romney has the opposite problem.

    And, yes, I know Reagan won 44 states and by 8 million votes but until election night, the polls showed the race much closer.

    DRJ (8b9d41)

  164. Well I’m skeptical, DRJ because the one candidate
    who succeeded in that strategy, W, basically ended
    in a tie, and the less one can say about McCain’s quixotic efforts, to cultivate ‘his base’ the better.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  165. Simon

    How is Palin going to run on her record?

    Just to let you know – Texas schools have always let illegals attend at the instate rate, so has PA and just about every state. They also have let them attend if they graduated from a Texas High School – thats about the only real residency test there was.

    Santorum moved to Virginia to be a lobbist, bought a house next to his father in Law in Pittsburg, rented it and uses it for his primary resident and had the state provide 70K a year in charter school “cyber” tuition for all of his children. He had to remove them from the school and enroll in Virginia because they were not PA residents anymore

    Note the hypocrisy…..

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  166. Barry old and stale
    he needs to be tossed away
    just like moldy bread

    *

    tossed away whether
    new loaf is Wonder Bread or
    tasty Panera

    elissa (d12c8b)

  167. People can was on and off all they want but Dana Perinno said again on not only the 5 but on fox news radio that Palin has a terrible record as Governor.

    The Cato institute said she spread welfare

    Given the no holds barred take down level crap thats been flying back and forth – I can imagine a Palin front runner looking down on all the other candidates – calling them crooks – is going to walk away

    She Barely won her races, she lost a statewide race against a credentialed politician

    And this is before she hd a verifiable record of governance

    And lets say everything she did was white and rosy, lets grant the argument that raising taxes and spending helped Alaska

    Oh thats just not going to play when people are demanding tax cuts and spending cuts

    Just not going to happen

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  168. Note the hypocrisy.

    Puts the mirror in front of Eric’s face.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  169. Oh gee, did I miss that Palen has announced her entrance into the race? Was she on stage last night? If not, then whatchoo talkin’ about EPWJ? And will you please quit with this incessant and ceaseless nonsense.

    elissa (d12c8b)

  170. Like Charlie Sheen found out too late, that’s not a ‘winning’ strategy.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  171. but I’m enjoying the fact checking on Romney – I guess he forgot that if you make alot of claims eh people might look em up

    Santorums just there to sign up lobbying clients, get pundit positions on Fox. Its about the benj’s with Rick – always was – he’s a Steel City Huckabee

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  172. ==People can was on and off all they want==

    WTF?? Oh. I think what Eric was trying to say is “I work here is done.”

    elissa (d12c8b)

  173. ‘wax on, wax off’ like Mr. Miyagi?

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  174. elissa

    She’s trying to raise money she sent out 6 letters in the last week asking for large sums to help her make up her mind.

    Sounds like a candidate to me – or is it someone who is raising wnough money so in the “guise” of a pack she can have houses, airplanes, snowmobils, fishing boats, tour busses like Laura Ingraham, ann Coulter, Bill Hemmer, Dana Parrino are hinting at.

    As long as you have a Pac, pretty much you can charge vehicles, out of state condo’s and homes, travel, as expenses.

    Nice…

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  175. elissa

    I’m a terrible typist, I’m on the phone with korea, and sometimes I type the Arabic style of leaving out vowels that are not really needed.

    I’ve gt to go – see gt means got

    But be careful Palin is trying to raise money lots of it – wonder what she’s going to do with it?

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  176. We have a new ‘tard of thunder.

    JD (10025c)

  177. did anyone ask Romney if his PAC paid for his condo in Florida and in California?

    Just curious

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  178. JD

    Overexposure to Palin flavor Koolaid can have serious effect on cognitive reasoning, leads to bloating and gas, and general wealth and health problems

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  179. I have a new favorite euphemism.

    I’m on the phone with Korea = “I’m oiling the baseball glove, ma, leave me alone in here!”

    FYI it’s midnight Friday night in Korea. I’m sure lots of oilmen are drunk singing karaoke making business calls to EPJW.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  180. He is denser than depleted uranium, isn’t he,

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  181. I believe that the head of ADM sold that Florida condo to Bob Dole, who willed it to Romney.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  182. ==Comment by EricPWJohnson — 9/23/2011 @ 7:54 am==

    Whoever is paying EWPJ to talk to Korea is not getting their money’s worth if he’s distracted by also posting here at the same time. EWPJ is collecting his salary fraudulently and quite obviously stealing from his employer. Shocking! and note the hypocrisy!!

    elissa (d12c8b)

  183. Did phone sex lines relocate to Korea?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  184. I read enough of EPWJ’s contributions to make one comment-

    The issue about Santorum’s residence in regards to his children happened while he was still Senator for PA. I guess he thought that since he was in a sense “working for” (certainly on behalf of) Pennsylvania, that he was essentially a PA resident (after all, he couldn’t be elected a Senator from PA unless his residency was in PA, right?). If being a PA resident, then using privileges of a PA resident would have seemed pretty reasonable.

    Santorum should have gotten Bono to campaign for him during his last election.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  185. No, they had to get the foolishness of a cipher like Casey, out of the way, think of that race, like the Wofford contest against Thornburgh

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  186. Newt – loves Regan but wants less taxes and balanced budget.
    Fact: largest per cent deficit increase in history. More than Obama.
    Also Tax increases under Regan
    Also large social spending increases

    Regan was a Connoisseur of coffee not a sipper of tea. A democrat by today’s standards.

    boston (657c89)

  187. Packing for Jakarta while talking to Korea in the middle of the night. Multi-tasking.

    Palin Kool-Aid?! Again, pointing out your asshattery does not mean that I support the opposite of you. I would bet that you couldn’t come close to describing my views on Palin.

    JD (0b8a2b)

  188. ==Comment by boston — 9/23/2011 @ 8:31 am==

    Oh good lord. Did the lefty site you copied this idiotic comment from misspell Reagan’s name too? Geez, the quality of trolls nowadays is appalling. Has Soros lowered the minimum wage at MM I wonder?

    elissa (d12c8b)

  189. “…he lacks the subtlety and sophistication to roundly best Obama…”

    But, would he describe the driving of the Golden Spike at Promentory Point UT as marking the completion of the “Intercontinental Railway”(sic)?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  190. Ok boston time to lay off the wacky tobaccy.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  191. Well he’s getting better, last week it was transcontinental.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  192. boston, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

    I just read a comment Perry gave about not having a heart if you disagree with his in state tuition for illegals. Pretty stupid thing to say, I have to admit. That’s so loaded down with emotionalism. I disagree with this tuition policy, but I bet I could come up with a better defense than ‘you don’t have a heart’.

    I can see why Perry’s taking a lot of flack. If his entire evening was like that, … sigh.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  193. The Intergalactic Texas Corridor!

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  194. “Boston” and epwj would be good buddies.

    JD (cae88c)

  195. ‘And if wasn’t for the stimulus, the Vogon Constructor Fleet, wouldn’t have been able to complete this project’

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  196. I think what people are looking for, and not finding, is a politician who has two qualities

    1) He doesn’t use sophistries.

    2) He knows how to answer them.

    As for deciding what side is right, Rick Perry needs something a little bit better than the heuristic of siding with “little guy” less Ivy League expert.

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)

  197. I see that epwj is off his khat again today.
    Can anyone explain what he meant by a Perry “residency” problem?
    I understand that the TX Gov’s mansion is currently undergoing re-hab after a fire, and the Perry family is being put up in rental digs in Austin, but how would that be a “residency” problem?
    Also, Mitt AFAIK has no “condo” in CA…He does own a very nice beach-front house (SFD) in LaJolla CA that is being expanded.

    I see from the net coverage this AM that the DC denizens have settled back on Mitt as the go-to guy, and are down-playing Perry’s chances.
    The Establishment is putting down markers!

    Getting rid of cable was a good move, I think.
    Now, perhaps to maintain what little sanity that still remains, I’ll just throw a dust-cover over the TV.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  198. 164. Perry can regain some of insider support but only at the expense of his standing with the base.

    I just don’t think moving anything but Right is wise until he’s got the nomination. He’s up in FL 6 or 9, I forget, not despite SS but because of authenticity.

    He’s not my fave, but he’s playing into self-forced error add outs. Nothing but lobs because he can’t get a serve in play for an ace.

    You know who this helps.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  199. Drew, how can you tell,

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  200. Boston and EPWJ might be kind of brokeback lovers.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  201. “Pretty stupid thing to say, I have to admit.”

    Damn straight. When is Perry going to acknowledge the actual issue – that people have a problem with people being in our country illegally, not the sound of their names. Educating them so that they will not be drain on our society, which is his stated position, even though they cannot legally work in this country, just further avoids the issue. It does not matter if children were brought here by their parents, that is just another dodge.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  202. Comment by ian cormac — 9/23/2011 @ 8:50 am

    ian, didn’t you hear, at Pres.Millstone’s appearance at some bridge in OH yesterday, he praised Big Government for completing the “intercontental railway” in 1869.
    I guess this passes for erudition at Harvard?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  203. In other words automakers matter more than disaster victims thanks a lot democraps.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  204. Comment by ian cormac — 9/23/2011 @ 9:04 am

    ???

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  205. I often wish that every left leaning person in America could be forced to listen to Ronald Reagan’s “A Time for Choosing” speech. I suspect that many younger right leaning citizens have not heard it in its entirety, either, and they really should. The speech is available on You Tube from the Reagan Library and perfectly captures the man’s combination of sincerity, style, warmth, intelligence, and grasp of so many of the same issues we are dealing with still.

    elissa (d12c8b)

  206. About the Jakarta Jemadar.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  207. Oops…”Intercontinental Railway” v. “intercontental railway”

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  208. Isn’t Jakarta Jemadar an indonesian hip-hop group?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  209. Comment by elissa — 9/23/2011 @ 9:10 am

    I arrived back in CA in 1964 from South Asia just in time to watch The Speech!
    It forever changed how I thought of Ronald Reagan.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  210. Our Dubai traveller, but as Dave Barry would say, it would make a great name for a band,

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  211. 191. Reagan was hardly perfect, e.g., amnesty for illegals, Federal government was again expanding a year into his second term, H.W., James Baker III, David Stockman,…

    But the economy roared back and revenues started reducing those deficits long before he left office.

    Now its time to dump Carter’s Depts. of Education and Energy that saddle us with debt and Nixon’s EPA with regulations.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  212. ian: Re “JJ”…he has brief periods of lucidity, but can ramble for hours/days on seemingly disconnected threads without making a point, or sense (I assume we’re talking about epwj?).

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  213. Comment about Rick Perry stumble:

    “I think Americans just don’t know sometimes which Mitt Romney they’re dealing with. Is it the Mitt Romney that was on the side of…against…the Second Amendment before he was for the Second Amendment…was it was..before he was before these social programs, uh, from the standpoint he was standing, uh, for Roe vs. Wade before he was against Roe, uh, Roe vs. Wade…uh…he was…uh for Race To The Top… Uh…[pause]…he’s for Obamacare and now he’s against it…I mean, we’ll wait until tomorrow and, and, and wait to see which Mitt Romney we’re really talking to…”

    If he was allowed to use a teleprompter this might work.

    This is too long to memorize without a lot of work, and you need to actually understand why each assertion is made – that way he won’t get lost. Or possibly he realized that his prepared statement just wasn’t good.

    Romney was – not against the Second Amendment – that phraseology is wrong. You can see why Perry stumbled there and then he lost the tune. The only people who talk about the Second amendment are those who cite it. That maybe should be Romney didn’t care about the Second Amendment before he decided that he did. Or he could have used the word “gun control”

    And it’s also true, right, Romney wasn’t actually for Roe v Wade. Governor Perry seemed to suddenly realize he couldn’t say that. He meant Romney was for various things that were prohibited until Roe v Wade – maybe just don’t use that phrase Roe v Wade at all.

    Governor Perry was trying to avoid using the word abortion, or the concept of government benefits used for abortions. Just like earlier he avoided the use of the term “gun control”

    At “Race to the Top” Governor Perry most likely started to worry about running out of time and cut out the finishing phrase – the only one he would have done right.

    Romney was for the individual mandate before he was – is he against it or is he just against Obamacare?

    Against Obamacare because – because, well because a Republican Presidential candidate needs to be against it!

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)

  214. Comment by daleyrocks — 9/23/2011 @ 9:05 am

    When is Perry going to acknowledge the actual issue – that people have a problem with people being in our country illegally, not the sound of their names.

    He can’t. When confronted by a sophistry, he fell back on a different sophistry.

    The idea that the law should be enforced is a sophistry.

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)

  215. Sammy, as someone who is rather passionate about the defense of Freedom & Liberty, and who believes wholeheartedly in the Right of the People to Self-Defense through the Keeping and Bearing of Arms, let me tell you that anyone who would restrict the Rights of Americans through the disbarement of arms by signing a ban on the imaginary “assault weapon”, as Mitt did in MA, is not someone who could be described as “Pro 2nd-Amendment”!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  216. Governor Perry doesn’t know how to argue against it.

    But his heart is in the right place on this issue.

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)

  217. 219. “is he against it or is he just against Obamacare?”

    He’s still for States’ mandates, Rush had the tapes earlier this week. He’s for keepint SS taxes in bureaucrats hands, delaying retirement, means testing benefits and fudging further the already fraudulent CPI.

    He’s for, as is Huntsman, going with the ‘consensus’ to arrest climate change, i.e., neither can boil water without a focus group.

    Mittens blows.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  218. The idea that the law should be enforced is a sophistry

    …1. a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning.
    1. a false argument, sophism.

    Ah, Yes, I can trust a man who deals thusly.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  219. These interludes when he has passed out are so much more pleasant.

    JD (17012e)

  220. Comment by Another Drew – Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! — 9/23/2011 @ 9:21 am

    Sammy, as someone who is rather passionate about the defense of Freedom & Liberty, and who believes wholeheartedly in the Right of the People to Self-Defense through the Keeping and Bearing of Arms, let me tell you that anyone who would restrict the Rights of Americans through the disbarement of arms by signing a ban on the imaginary “assault weapon”, as Mitt did in MA, is not someone who could be described as “Pro 2nd-Amendment”

    Notice that you said: not someone who could be described as “Pro 2nd-Amendment”

    NOT

    someone who was “Anti 2nd-Amendment”

    That’s why Governor Perry stumbled over there.

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)

  221. Yes, JD, he graces us with those welcome respites.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  222. Khaaaaaaaaaaaat!

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  223. Sammy, please elucidate what is the difference of being “anti 2nd-Amendment” and being “not Pro 2nd Amendment”?

    A signer of an AWB is per se “Anti 2nd Amendment”; and could not in any way be considered as “Pro 2nd Amendment”, by this observer.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  224. carlitos, consider yourself on report to
    Attaaaaaaaaack Waaaaaaaaaaatch!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  225. They were all a bunch pandering wankers on immigration last night IMHO.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  226. daley, I didn’t see all of it, but I’m inclined to agree. One would think that a dude worth of a Presidential campaign could hire PR dudes that could provide better language than we saw. Sadly, this crop doesn’t appear to have that.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  227. I said: The idea that the law should be enforced is a sophistry

    Comment by Another Drew – Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! — 9/23/2011 @ 9:24 am


    …1. a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning.
    1. a false argument, sophism.

    Right. Would you say that about every other law?

    Still more, about a law widely flouted? Where it is impractical to enforce? The whole argument that you need to enforce it is that the law is very hard on people and therefore every one will break it. By the same token then the law maybe shouldn’t exist. Of course that obviates the law if the main goal is to keep the number of people in the United States as low as possible. Why that should be a good idea is never explained.

    But say it does exist, is there a difference between preventing someone from bettering their life and making their life miserable after they have bettered it? There most definitely is. The second thing is worse.

    The law of Moses did not abolish slavery – and at the same time it provided that if a slave escaped from his master he would not be returned to his master. Is there a contradiction? Shouldn’t we say: “If your are against slavery, then abolish it! And if you’re not against slavery then enforce it!”

    But to the contrary, this what Moses described as wisdom in the eyes of the nations. (It is what the nations would notice the most.) The code of Hammurabi ends with the case of a slave who escapes from his master. His ear is bored. The Biblical code of civil law (shortly after the Ten Commandment) starts with the case of a slave who wants to stay with his master. His ear is gored.

    So when someone comes from Babylonia looking for an escaped slave and sees a man with his ear bored – what does he see? The most contented slave. Those efforts are frustrated.

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)

  228. Just which one of the crusaders on stage last night are willing to commit in a meaningful manner* to do something about this:

    Dead federal retirees are paid $120 million annually, report says
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dead-federal-retirees-are-paid-120-million-annually-report-says/2011/09/22/gIQAMjT0oK_story.html

    H/T- InstaPundit

    *I would suggest the public humiliation and termination of whatever bureaucrat is responsible for this travesty.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  229. Sammy, this is a Republic, founded on the notion that we observe The Rule of Law, and that no man is above, or below, that Law.

    If you believe that this, or any, law is unenforceable, then you should be working tirelessly for its repeal.
    But, as long as that law is on the books, it should be enforced; and those charged with enforcing it should, in the absent of such, be terminated for cause.
    I don’t want to hear this “making a better life for themselves” crap, as by their being here illegally, they are diminishing the prospects of those who are legally here who compete for the same opportunities.

    And, WTF does Moses have to do with the subject of Illegal Immigration?
    Typically Leftist Goal-post Moving.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  230. Perry has served us up Romney on a silver platter.

    Perry’s schtick had some attraction in his first debate and as people have formed their first (and lasting) impressions of Perry, he hasn’t risen to the occasion. He is now damaged goods. And he made Romney more appealing by letting us all see how a “real challenger” cannot compete against Romney.

    I do not trust Romney. But he does run a near flawless campaign. I thought so in 2008 as well. People simply didn’t want him. And people don’t really want him now, but he talks a good game and with Obama looming in the background, they will vote for him as a capable alternative while they wish really hard that he pursues a conservative agenda.

    Romney will win the nomination, as much as I don’t want that to be the case. He is the 1:1 horse at the track. The payout won’t be that great and those promising 4:1 horses really don’t stand a chance.

    Crispian (b3c52a)

  231. As I mentioned yesterday (I believe), any stumble by Perry will increase the chance that Palin will enter the race.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  232. If Palin enters the race, I will figure out the nerdy programming code that hides EPJW’s posts. (Kudos, Milhouse)

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  233. We might have to put “feets” behind the firewall also?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  234. Crispian,

    I think there’s some wisdom in your analysis, but I also think trying to beat Romney in the debates is silly.

    He’s been preparing for this for ages. He’s also naturally good at it. A smart competitor will take Romney down in other formats. That’s how Romney lost in 2008, and it’s how he’ll lose in 2012.

    If it comes down to it, Romney’s competitors will saturate states with the truth about Romney’s flip flops on issues, gun grabbing, tax increases, spending hikes, health care mandate, etc etc etc etc. It is a highly effective way to deal with Romney that Romney is completely helpless against.

    I think Perry’s defensiveness is a major mistake. He shouldn’t worry about Romney in the debates, and he shouldn’t be defensive, even about issues he’s goofed on, or where he’s just plain out of step with the GOP. That’s where I think he’s falling over. He wants to be authentic, so he should go ahead and be authentic enough to admit, for example, those disagreeing with his tuition policy have a great reason to disagree.

    If he needs to hammer Romney in TV ads to give himself that freedom, I think he needs to do it as soon as possible. I want to see that Perry has some kind of campaign, frankly.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  235. I think Palin should run Mr. Drew and strut pout put it out … the whole nine yards. She needs to run for America! Run run rudolph Sarah save the christmas! And then when she’s president we can all gaze upon her admiringly and say well would you look at that.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  236. I’ll double-down on that Dustin.
    Intra-party squabbles only enable the MSM.
    Every candidate reaching for the GOP “Gold Ring” should be hammering the incumbent, and contrasting their policies with his politics.
    The goal is to Beat Obama, nothing must disctract from that.
    Messina, Brad, the key is Messina (as he swats map with baton)!”

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  237. Perry? – he’s done. y’all need to learn to love the Mitster.

    Bill Kristol “Yikes.” “But no front-runner in a presidential field has ever, we imagine, had as weak a showing as Rick Perry. It was close to a disqualifying two hours for him.”

    Rich Lowry “A few weeks ago, the question was how far and fast he would ascend; now, after his third debate, it’s how much he’ll drop.” “I really thought Perry would get better, but he hasn’t.”

    RedState’s Erick Erickson “Rick Perry was a train wreck in this debate. He flubbed his response on Romney flip-flopping. He got the first question tonight and stumbled. Good grief.”

    Michelle Malkin “The cringe-worthiest moment, by a hair, was when Perry botched what should have been his most potent attack on Mitt Romney’s chronic flip-flopping. As I noted on Twitter when it happened, any random high schooler at the CPAC conference in Washington could have done better than this. If this is how Perry’s going to take Obama on in debates, we’re in trouble. Someone inject him with some Red Bull and a dash of Herman Cain’s personality.”

    Dana Perino, “This was like a 3rd date with Perry – where you decide if you’ll go on a 4th…would you?”

    Ann Coulter, “Governor Perry losing debate with his own tongue.”

    Spartacvs (2d9449)

  238. Well I disagree in part, Dustin, since Romney is pulling a similar straddle to that he tried in 2008, with elements of his 1994 one, mixed in,

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  239. 239. I think it’s tantamount to libelous to associate the feets with Pee Wee in abject imbecility.

    OTOH, I have no freaking clue how to decipher 241.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  240. I thought spurty was “86′d”?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  241. BTW, what is it with these RW pols bringing religion into politics?

    Bill Clinton: God May Not Want Peace In The Middle East.

    H/T- Instapundit

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  242. “Rough crowd’ as Rodney Dangerfield would say.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  243. If you can’t run with the Big Dogs, best stay under the porch.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  244. BTW, what is it with these RW pols bringing religion into politics?

    Yeah. Our Dear Leader was the single one human being that brought any religiosity to the 9/11 memorial. Obama quoted a Psalm which was kinda effed up and taken in context, seemed to blame God for 9/11, when in fact it was Allah or whatever. I was disappointed. Bloomberg had the whole thing nailed as a secular event.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  245. 243. “y’all need to learn to love the Mitster”

    No can do. If 20-25% of the popular vote is good enough with winner-take-all contests to put Mitt over the top then Repugnants will lose.

    Too early to say to whom. Lincoln won in an Electoral College landslide with 40% of the popular vote against 3 national opponents.

    Obama’s floor in approval will be his ceiling in popular vote, now about 37% and ineorably falling.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  246. O/T, but…
    Stocks are on a rollercoaster, both up and down; but Gold is plunging towards $1600/oz ($1638.70, down $103.00 so far today).

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  247. I can’t vote for Mitt I promised myself when I voted for McCain that it was the last time I’d ever put party before my own dignity

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  248. Perry is not helping himself in these debates. But if you want to know why it’s likely not major damage (aside from the small TV audiences), just ask where people are going to go if they decide they don’t want Perry. Bandwagoneers may jump back to Romney. But those who don’t want Romney don’t want Romney; where do they go? Not to Huntsmann, who is the same basic product (albeit w/o RomneyCare). Bachmann managed to beclown herself overplaying the vaccination issue. If Palin jumps in, she’ll have her own baggage. The others don’t have the sort of profile or record people look for in a president, which is why none of them took off before Perry got in. In short, Perry likely has a fair amount of leeway to screw up, and he’s taking it early on. He could continue to screw up and hand it to Romney, but the lack of other viable alternatives to Romney helps Perry a lot.

    Karl (f07e38)

  249. I’m voting posthumous Tsongas as a write-in.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  250. Along those lines, carlitos, I hear that there is this G.Washington guy down in VA who’s a straight-shooter.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  251. carlitos,

    Zombie Tsongas likely still a better swimmer than Zombie Ted Kennedy.

    Karl (f07e38)

  252. 254. Granted, but if the debates are over-emphasized so too are the polls. Perry and Romney can lay claim to a softish 50% in support.

    And you’re on the money, Romney will never see 30% again.

    Lots of unsold customers.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  253. Lots of unsold customers.

    All those Rambler owners died.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  254. gary,

    Agreed there’s a lot of soft support. If you look at the RCP graph linked in the post, you’ll note that Romney shoots up for a fair amount of the time Perry shoots up. It’s because the MSM started covering the campaign in earnest after the debt ceiling got resolved.

    Karl (f07e38)

  255. I’m glad to have Karl’s opinion on this. He’s totally describing my attitude.

    If someone better than Perry was in the race, I would have no problem switching, but if I want a competent and electable conservative, Romney isn’t even being considered, so where do I go?

    I do want to ask folks who know better than I: how many democrats will vote for Romney in the primary?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  256. Like Karl, I don’t think the debates are helping Perry but they aren’t doing a lot of damage to him either. Why? Look back at the 2007-2008 GOP debates that were dominated by Romney, Paul, and Huckabee. McCain wasn’t even on the debate winner radar but he was the eventual nominee.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  257. I’ll double-down on that Dustin.
    Intra-party squabbles only enable the MSM.

    But it’s inevitable. The candidates have to differentiate from eachother.

    Some squabbles should be seen as crossing the line. Such as scaring people away from crucial reforms, just to make a truth telling candidate look scary and unelectable.

    But squabble we much.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  258. Happyfeet please go back to calling Sarah Palin a butthead.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  259. If the real front runner won’t please stand up, then we’ll either have Palin or take the matter into our own hands.

    I think JD gets the nod, anybody who disagrees with him gets condemned as a racist…

    But I’m also open to other suggestions.

    What do you say if we get to the convention and no one has enough to get the nomination on first ballot?

    Rubio/Jindahl.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  260. You guys give up so quick, like many Easterners that move to West Texas. They often give up and move back home after the first big windstorm, but Texans who’ve faced hard times know that life rewards those who don’t give up at the first sign of adversity.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  261. New Perry thread up.

    Karl (f07e38)

  262. sorry Karl my bad

    Perry is going to win easily, people dont agree with him but he’s making no excuses and calling it like he see’s it

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  263. Last time I was in the slums of Amarillo, all the poor Jews in the ghetto wanted was a small business loan to open a burrito stand buy some extra apostrophes.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  264. DRJ’s got the winning attitude.

    I won’t pretend Perry aced the debates or anything, but let’s not throw him out over it. The guy has been a good governor for 11 years. He is definitely the opposite of foam columns and no experience.

    I just don’t see any perfect competitors ready to replace him. MD mentions Palin, and I know that’s an elephant in the room. Not to diminish her (she’s more qualified than most of the candidates, after all), but she would also be making flubs and have the same ‘I question her intellect’ type complaints.

    I think, at the very least, Perry represents a competent conservative with some pretty annoying debate tendencies. It’s not really that bad.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  265. Comment by Dustin — 9/23/2011 @ 11:04 am

    They should make the differentiation by what they propose to do, not what occurred in the past.
    Yesterday cannot be changed.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  266. Just why are we talking about non-entities such as Santorum?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  267. Agree Drew.

    So is it illegal for gays to bully heteros Chuckoff Schumer?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  268. Anything done to Chuck-you Schumer is not only legal, but encouraged.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  269. They should make the differentiation by what they propose to do, not what occurred in the past.
    Yesterday cannot be changed.

    Well, they are proposing nearly the same thing, only they have very different records which establishes credibility.

    Can Romney govern? To govern, he must be able to weather a storm for his principles. He can’t, so that goes directly to whether he’s up to the task of cutting spending, which will take someone who is probably not going to make either party’s establishment very happy. It’s going to be an epic fight, probably with riots and ridiculous scare tactics. He flinches even when someone notes Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. And his record is consistent in this way (perhaps the only way).

    Records are the main thing separating these two guys. If I’m just going to look at how well they propose reforms, Romney is getting quite a pass.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  270. My point is that the media, as they should – but didn’t in the Dem Primary of ’08, will exlore the past and lay out the differences in history of the several candidates.
    The candidates themselves should be making nice to each other and attacking the incumbent – it’s that damn old 11th-Commandment thingie.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  271. people dont agree with him but he’s making no excuses and calling it like he see’s it dodging issues by the bushel

    EPWJ – Fixed

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  272. The candidates themselves should be making nice to each other and attacking the incumbent – it’s that damn old 11th-Commandment thingie.

    That would be nice.

    I’m not so sure the media is going to dig into Romney too hard, unless it’s after his nomination. We’ll see.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  273. Well, the usual suspects in the MSM certainly won’t (O/T, but there was a howler last night on PBS NewsHour: They were reporting on the discovery of particles travelling faster than the speed of light, and noted that that speed is 186,xxx miles per HOUR!), but Romney has to be prepared to be dug into by the alternative media which today has a much larger (getting larger by the nano-second) voice in the public arena.
    There is a cascade effect from Newsmax, TownHall, DC Examiner to FoxNews to elements of the MSM.
    Once the volume level reaches a certain point, it overcomes the resisters built into the system.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  274. Comment by Another Drew – Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! — 9/23/2011 @ 9:30 am

    Sammy, please elucidate what is the difference of being “anti 2nd-Amendment” and being “not Pro 2nd Amendment”?

    A signer of an AWB is per se “Anti 2nd Amendment”; and could not in any way be considered as “Pro 2nd Amendment”, by this observer.

    The people who are “Pro Second Amendment” say taht the second amendment doesn’t allow you to do certain thinghs or that people having personal weapons guns exemplifies an important principle. The poeople who don’t subscribe to that are not “anti-Second Amendment”

    They either don’t think it means certain things or that it doesn’t have the corollaries the pro-Second Amendment people say it does. the correc t description of this position is not really “anti-Second Amendment”

    Governor Perry realized in the middle of his statement that he couldn’t say that.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)

  275. The Wall Street Journal BEST OF TEH WEB has come up with another transcript of Governor Perry’s stumble:

    Mike Sage #123 gave:

    “I think Americans just don’t know sometimes which Mitt Romney they’re dealing with. Is it the Mitt Romney that was on the side of…against…the Second Amendment before he was for the Second Amendment…was it was..before he was before these social programs, uh, from the standpoint he was standing, uh, for Roe vs. Wade before he was against Roe, uh, Roe vs. Wade…uh…he was…uh for Race To The Top… Uh…[pause]…he’s for Obamacare and now he’s against it…I mean, we’ll wait until tomorrow and, and, and wait to see which Mitt Romney we’re really talking to…”

    The Wall Street Journal has:

    I think Americans just don’t know sometimes which Mitt Romney they’re dealing with. Is it the Mitt Romney that was on the side of against the Second Amendment before he was for the Second Amendment? Was it–was before he was before the social programs, from the standpoint of he was for standing up for Roe v. Wade before he was against Roe v. Wade? He was for Race to the Top, he’s for ObamaCare, and now he’s against it. I mean, we’ll wait until tomorrow and–and–and see which Mitt Romney we’re really talking to tonight.

    Maybe they cut out the uhs.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)

  276. Sammy, you want to flesh this out, it doesn’t make any sense to me…

    “…The people who are “Pro Second Amendment” say taht the second amendment doesn’t allow you to do certain thinghs or that people having personal weapons guns exemplifies an important principle. The poeople who don’t subscribe to that are not “anti-Second Amendment”…”

    Perhaps you could break it down into simple concepts for this poor country bumpkin.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  277. Comment by Another Drew – Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! — 9/23/2011 @ 9:48 am

    Sammy, this is a Republic, founded on the notion that we observe The Rule of Law, and that no man is above, or below, that Law.

    That’s why they paid the tax on tea. Later, that’s why they never replaced the Articles of Confederation (The Constitution is unconstitutional. that’s why it starts with
    “We the People”)

    That’s why they never gave land to squatters. That’s why we still have debtors prison.

    That’s why everybody abided by the Fugitive Slave Act.

    If you believe that this, or any, law is unenforceable, then you should be working tirelessly for its repeal.

    Do you have the same feeling about drug laws? About the inividual mandate for heaklth insurance?

    It would be nice to get the law in alignment with reality. But some people are stuck on stupid.

    Do you know the immigration law as it is contains provisions for “extreme hardship” exceptions? Do you know that it’s defenders in Congress always argue there is discretion?

    One argument for the speed limit of 55 MPH was that while people might break it, they would still drive slower than if it was 60 MPH.

    In New York City we can’t even get taxi license laws in line with reality.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2011/09/ny-senates-jeff-klein-sign-livery-car-bill-now

    But, as long as that law is on the books, it should be enforced; and those charged with enforcing it should, in the absent of such, be terminated for cause.

    It is quite imposisble to enforce and nobody seriously pretends that it can be. Even the people in favor of measures to enforce it don’t argue that it will be enforced. In fact, they deny it.

    I don’t want to hear this “making a better life for themselves” crap,

    Otherwise known as “pursuit of happiness”

    as by their being here illegally, they are diminishing the prospects of those who are legally here who compete for the same opportunities.

    that’s not true. If they were, it wouldn’t be the factor of being illegal that did it, but whatever characteristic some of them had, unless you subscribe to the idea that the more poeople, the worse the worse the economic outlook for poople, something which is the exact opposite of the truth..

    Here goes a John Maynard Keynes quote:

    “The ideas of economists and political philosophers, both when they are right and when they are wrong, are more powerful than is commonly understood. Indeed the world is ruled by little else. Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.”

    I wiuld dearly love to know who was the defunct economist behind immigration law theory. There’s not a bit of truth to it.

    And, WTF does Moses have to do with the subject of Illegal Immigration?

    It had to do with the idea of having a law that prohibited something but said that if somebody escaped, they were free.

    The Biblical quotattioons I have in mind are Deuteronomy 4:6 (where Moses talks about the wisdom of the laws) and the law for an escaped slave (Deuteronomy 23:16-17 and the law for what hapepned to a slave who didn’t want to go free (Exodus 21:1-6.

    The code of Hammurabi or part if it, is at:

    http://www.commonlaw.com/Hammurabi.html

    Last clause:

    282. If a slave has said to his master, “You are not my master,” he shall be brought to account as his slave, and his master shall cut off his ear.

    Compare to Exodus 21:1-6, Deuteronomy 23: 16-17 and Moses’ general observation at Deuteronnomy 4:6

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)

  278. You know Sammy, you are just another sick puppy in the epwj mold.
    Good Luck to you.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (ab2eca)

  279. Christie is a great communicator.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  280. Christie can communicate. And holds plenty of RINO positions (although he would be terrific on the debt). He may get in, but he doesn’t replace Perry. He might hurt Romney.

    Karl (b2d339)

  281. Karl

    Huntsmen and Santorum may also cut into Romney just a point or two each

    Christie isnt going to

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  282. Karl,

    They have cruicified Perry over cuts in the press – I would like to see Mitt Smarmy take a swing at the guy though, hink mitts hair might get mussied a bit

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  283. crucified – sorry

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  284. Karl– Now that we know Perry also holds a few more RINO/questionable positions than previously known, he is more easily “replaced” in some people’s hearts and minds than he might have been two weeks ago, I think.

    I’ll vote for Romney
    I’ll vote for Perry
    I’ll vote for Christie
    I’ll vote for ABO

    elissa (d12c8b)

  285. elissa

    What Rino position does Perry hold?

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  286. Sammy and EPWJ both have dizzying intellects.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  287. Perry is the purest conservative since Scozzafava.

    JD (318f81)

  288. JD – This country needs a gay conservative president.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  289. Shorter Perry: If you don’t support educating children of illegals with preferential in-state tuition rates, (a discount essentially subsidized by taxpayers) you don’t have a heart.

    That’s not even RINO. That’s full-on leftist.

    elissa (d12c8b)

  290. Comment by Another Drew – Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! — 9/23/2011 @ 2:30 pm

    Sammy, you want to flesh this out, it doesn’t make any sense to me…

    “…The people who are “Pro Second Amendment” say that the second amendment doesn’t allow you to do certain things or that people having personal weapons guns exemplifies an important principle. The people who don’t subscribe to that are not “anti-Second Amendment”…”

    Perhaps you could break it down into simple concepts for this poor country bumpkin.

    the people who are pro-Second amendment” say they are for whatever they are for because of the Second Amendment. The people opposed to them
    don’t say they are against the Second Amendment – they usually never discuss it and don’t draw any inferences from it. They don’t say they are against the Second amendment they just don’t subscribe to the NRA view.

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)


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