Patterico's Pontifications

9/15/2011

Why Rick Perry is the likely GOP nominee

Filed under: 2012 Election — Karl @ 9:49 am



[Posted by Karl]

…with a major caveat, of course.  But first, a disclaimer and a sideshow.  The disclaimer is that I am currently not supporting Perry or any of the other candidates.  Perhaps I am overly cynical, but I have not been excited about a presidential candidate since Reagan — and that was as likely the result of youthful exuberance as it was Reagan’s merits.  The sideshow:

After Monday’s debate in Florida, most people expected Rick Perry’s rapid rise to the top of the polls for Republican presidential candidates to slow or halt, having taken a beating over the Gardasil mandate and immigration.  His attack on Social Security was supposed to scare off seniors.  However, as RealClearPolitics reported last night,  a new poll by Insider Advantage shows Perry grabbing a nine-point lead in the Sunshine State in a survey taken the next day…

The effect of debates — and any debate in particular — is greatly exaggerated.  Monday’s debate was seen by fewer people than watched Monday Night Football, The Closer, Rizzoli & Isles, Pawn Stars, American Pickers or WWE Entertainment (The NBC/Politico debate had higher ratings, barely edging out an episode of Storage Wars).  That’s why Allahpundit was smart to view the current Rick Perry-Mitt Romney slugfest from the outset as more of a metaphor for the  “electability vs. principle” conundrum, which will play out over the entire course of the campaign.  But even that narrative frame may overstate the campaign dynamic.

You do not have to be a political scientist to observe that presidential nominees tend to have a particular profile.  Both the Dems and the GOP tend to nominate governors or, as a fallback, senators.  The last major party candidates nominated while they were in the House or just after they had left the House were James A. Garfield (R) in 1880, William Jennings Bryan (D) in 1896, and Horace Greeley (Whig Liberal Republican) in 1872 (Garfield, the only one of the three to win, had also been elected Senator).  It is not difficult to reason why this is the case.  A governorship, like the presidency, is an executive position.  A governor compiles a record on a host of issues, including those with national implications.  A senator, like a House member, may only compile a voting record.  However, a senator, like a governor, necessarily has demonstrated statewide appeal, whereas a House member’s appeal to a Congressional district may or may not translate to a wider audience.  Governors and senators have experience running larger campaigns. And so on.

Then there are region and ideology.  Both factors affect both major parties, but as Jay Cost observed back in May, before Perry entered the race:

To understand Romney’s dilemma fully, we have to go back deep into the history of the Republican Party, to the historical split between the Northeastern, moderate wing and the Midwestern, conservative base. This cleavage dominated the first 25 years of party politics after World War II. It predates the emergence of the South as a major player in the party, and it was also a time when Western Republicans tended to be more progressive, as opposed to today when they are usually (but not always) more conservative.

***

In the last 40 years, conservative dominance has been the way of the world in Republican presidential politics. The party has nominated some relatively moderate candidates, like Nixon, George Bush, and Bob Dole, but it was only after they had convinced enough Republican voters that they were sufficiently conservative.

In other words, a candidate aligned with the Northeastern, moderate wing of the party has not won a nomination since 1960, and there is no reason to expect that to change, barring some kind of once-in-a-century realignment of the two political parties. Northeastern Republicans are now junior partners in the party coalition. They cannot deliver their own states anymore, as the Democrats dominate them all except New Hampshire and Pennsylvania; meanwhile, conservatives in the Midwest, South, and West can deliver their states, and so they now basically run the show.

Which brings us to Mitt Romney, whose basic political problem is that he comes from the Northeastern wing of the party…

Indeed, within a week, Jay was expanding on this theme:

[A]s the last century has come and gone, we’ve seen a geographical revolution in the Republican party. The booming postwar economy sent voters South and West, and eventually transformed all of the Sunbelt states into either swing states or safely Republican enclaves (with California having now swung back to the Democrats).

Unsurprisingly, the shift in regional strength over the years has had an effect on whom the party nominates…

As Jay noted, since 1960, the GOP nominee has been from the Sunbelt with two exceptions — unelected incumbent Pres. Ford, and Sen. Bob Dole.  (One could make similar points about the Democrats and the Northeast/upper Midwest.)

Regionalism and ideology are major influences for a fairly obvious reason — political parties tend to nominate people for president who are broadly representative of the party’s base.  Partisans often talk a good game about electability, but do not necessarily act that way.  Republicans told CNN that Perry is the candidate with the best chance to beat Pres. Obama — and while I can make that argument, I could also argue that Romney is currently the more electable of the two; current head-to-head polls have Romney stronger, although both are closing in on Obama.  Conversely, I could note the Dems’ proclivity to nominate elitists from Massachusetts; their electoral success has come with non-Northeasterners, although this is quite arguably due to the economic cycles at issue.

In sum, when measured by resume, regionalism and ideology, Rick Perry would seem to be the candidate most acceptable to the GOP primary electorate.  The major caveat, as has been the case throughout this cycle, is a possible late entry by fmr. Gov. Sarah Palin (though that possibility dwindles by the day).  Her weakness among Republicans would not make her a lock for the nomination, but she would be a factor and could split the conservative opposition to Romney.  However, as the campaign stands today, regardless of the momentary odds at Intrade narrowly favoring Romney, the most likely GOP nominee is the Governor of Texas.

–Karl

421 Responses to “Why Rick Perry is the likely GOP nominee”

  1. The regional theory is supported by today’s Quinnipiac University poll in Virginia. The results show Perry up slightly in a head-to-head with Romney, and trailing (again, slightly) Romney vs Obama. The big news to me is “Obama’s job approval is plummeting among independent voters, who disapprove 62 – 29 percent, compared to a 54 – 41 percent disapproval June 30.”

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  2. I agree.

    The William F Buckley Rule is for Republicans to nominate the most conservative candidate who can win.

    Six weeks ago I thought that Romney was the only electable Republican. Since then, events have demonstrated that Obama is more vulnerable than I thought. I now believe that Perry can win. Neither Bachmann nor any of the other conservatives have convinced me of their electability in a national election.

    aunursa (41236f)

  3. dwindle dwindle populist star
    how we wonder why you endorsed Orrin Hatch
    up above the USA
    you can’t shine when night is day
    dwindle dwindle populist star
    how we wonder what that bus tour thing was all about exactly

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  4. And, it was inevitable that Hillary Clinton would get the Democrat nomination in 2008.

    ropelight (0a9a0a)

  5. I was legit excited for Palin then watched what happened to her when people from the GOP teamed with the nastiest of the left.

    I no longer get excited publicly.

    Hawkins (1fc204)

  6. Betcha Patterico, one of the early discoverers of the brilliance, charm and politicaly savvy of Sarah Palin, just loves Rick Perry.
    He’s yours.
    Ye reap what ye sow.

    Larry Reilly (87d799)

  7. Why so angry? A lack of hope and change got you down?

    I know someone who would like to have dinner with you, Larry. If you love him. And have some money.

    Don’t forget to eat your peas.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  8. Mary, as usual, has no idea who wrote this post, or what it is about.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (a63c7d)

  9. Speaking of reaping what you sow….

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  10. ropelight,

    There’s a big difference between “inevitable” and “likely.”

    HRC lost to BO because: (1) BO was at least more representative of the base than HRC, who voted for the Iraq AUMF; (b) HRC’s campaign never realized BO was re-running the McGovern campaign, picking up delegates cheap from caucuses (and even primaries) in Red states.

    Romney is unlikely to be seen as more representative of the GOP base. Perry could still run a bad campaign. Romney has run a pretty good campaign to date (although his tactics on entitlements risk further alienating the base). The issue is whether, even if Perry ran a bad campaign, Romney can overcome Perry’s regional and ideological advantages. It could happen, but I wouldn’t necessarily bet on it.

    Karl (f07e38)

  11. Does it surprise anyone that Larry Reilly is a JournoLista?

    JD (68ff46)

  12. Betcha Patterico, one of the early discoverers of the brilliance, charm and politicaly savvy of Sarah Palin, just loves Rick Perry.
    He’s yours.
    Ye reap what ye sow.

    Comment by Larry Reilly — 9/15/2011 @ 10:58 am

    Yes, Texas has been reaping what we’ve sown for many years now.

    So has New York and California and Michigan, for that matter.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  13. Romney is an excellent politician. When you think about the kind of record he’s got, it’s extremely impressive that he’s been a frontrunner for two primaries.

    I bet he’d happily pay Palin if she’d run at least ten times what he paid T Paw (this is a joke).

    I think one reason Karl is not super enthusiastic about any Republican is because ever since 1996 or so, the GOP has repeatedly taught us to expect to be disappointed. Bush, Delay, debate stud Gingrich…

    Perry and Romney would both frustrate us at some point, but they are both far more qualified to be president than Dear Leader, and their agendas are both much wiser than his. I think Perry’s record reflects a greater likelihood he doesn’t think government is the solution to everything (though it’s a mixed bag).

    I’m pleased that Perry’s leading. Much better than I was expecting.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  14. You do know that most of the right punditry is firmly on his side, despite MassCare, or his dabbling with AGW, that he represented most of
    the dead weight that the Tea Party was trying to kick away.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  15. Perry: Even when he is stupid, he looks good.
    Romney: Even when he is right, he sounds like a liar

    S. Carter aka J-Z (8d652e)

  16. Yes, Ian. Perry will win, and frankly, not despite the fact the establishment prefers the other guy, but probably partly because of that.

    The Tea Party gets to back a respectable candidate AND reject the establishment. It’s like having your cake and eating it too.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  17. Ian

    Most of the current right punditry were Bush I and II operatives who have no love for Perry or respect

    The Look of pure disdain on the face of Dana Perrino on Fox news the 5 went beyond punditry – most Bushs people just dont like Perry and were crushed when Kay was thumped by Perry

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  18. You know who else those folks don’t like?

    Palin.

    Just sayin’

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  19. What this site needs is a Johnson filter, for those days when you don’t feel like listening to idiotic, though generally harmless, babble.

    Dave Surls (dfcbf1)

  20. greasemonkey, has one, I haven’t been able to get it to work lately.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  21. In my state there is a lot of talk that many Dems will vote in the Republican primary– for Romney. That is because they are growing ever more resigned to the fact that Obama cannot win re-election nationally regardless of his opponent– and they would prefer Mitt over Rick as POTUS for the next 4 years.

    elissa (875dbf)

  22. elissa, in my experience, primary election ballots only list the designated party’s candidates. Democrats can say they’ll vote for Romney, but will they register GOP and forgo the opportunity to vote for all the down-ballot Democrats? I guess we’ll see, won’t we.

    ropelight (0a9a0a)

  23. rope, a lot of states allow “cross-over” voting.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (a63c7d)

  24. In my state one is not “registered” to a party as in some states. At the polling place voters must request either a Dem, Repub or Green ballot on each primary day, which is noted merely so the number of voted ballots can be reconciled in the bin. You are subjected to calls and literature from that party apparatus in greater number than from the other party up until the general, but it does not obligate you in future primaries. Of course voters always have to decide where their vote will mean the most for races that mean the most to them, so usually they don’t cross over. But there will not be a governor’s race for us in 2012, and except for a few legislative districts which may have interesting primaries due to redistricting I would anticipate a fair number of urban Dems will take an R primary ballot so as to influence the presidential nominee.

    Assuming Obama is running and his numbers continue to be so terrible as to be a harbinger of defeat–I would very much expect a lot of crossover primary voting from the Dem side for Romney. (And some crossover Dem votes in the general as well.) The downstate Republican leaning counties will vote for Perry or whomever the more Conservative candidate is.

    elissa (875dbf)

  25. What we need is a primary challenge to Obama.

    A decent one. Howard Dean or Hillary Clinton or John Hunstman.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  26. Well he’s Michael Moore’s favorite, Huntsman, is,
    (epic facepalm)

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  27. Glenn Rice likes Sarah Palin.

    S. Carter aka J-Z (8d652e)

  28. i think Romney should go ahead and challenge Obama for the Demoncrap nomination, since that is the party he most identifies with anyway.

    that would leave Perry free to win the GOP nomination, and beat which ever worthless lieberal actually runs from the other side.

    the dems can only run on the “more of the same” platform, because to do anything else is to alienate their base, and after four years of hope and change, Middle America has had enough, especially since the SCOAMF still has another year to make things worse.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  29. J-Z

    That book is a work of hate fiction

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  30. Rick Perry is very high-functioning I think and he will be a serviceable president.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  31. feets!

    …but Perry had a “come to Jesus” get-together! Or something! 😉

    Karl (f07e38)

  32. yes yes but what’s a little pikachu to do? One mustn’t be rigidly dogmatic in these matters.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  33. That book is a work of hate fiction

    That you can type that without the cognitive dissonance produced causing a wormhole in the space-time continuum is astounding.

    JD (af0807)

  34. If Bolton entered the race, I would instantly line up behind him and donate to his campaign. Are there enough like me? The idea of candidate Bolton or, dare I say it, President Bolton, excites the hell out of me!

    Al (670210)

  35. JD

    The harm to a marriage, for everyone involved, the salacious accusations of wromg doing, of corruption, of drug use, of child neglect, all for what?

    I am a critic of what she did and what she says – not what others say she did and say she said.

    great here it comes on fox news political grapevine…

    Of course someone emailed me things you wont hear at the Palin dinner table anymore

    “Need more Rice dear?”

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  36. Joe McGuinness is a wretched worm ridden piece of filth, so much so, he has alienated the other bottom dwellers in the Alaskan nutroot underworld,
    which is hard to do.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  37. Journalism, is not only dead, but gone zombie, a dissent in part therein:

    http://randompixels.blogspot.com/2011/09/sarah-palin-glen-rice-sex-story-divides.html

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  38. Ian

    Even the NYT’s is distancing themselves from McGinnis

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  39. I am a critic of what she did and what she says

    BS. Were that true, you would not make up things and claim she said them.

    JD (af0807)

  40. #36, but, but, but Bolten is a Bilderberger. (snarc)

    retire05 (674325)

  41. JD

    Only in the inner reaches of your Palin induced mental coma, imagining JD in his fannel footies classic arms out sleep walking in the rust belt corn fields…

    Saaaarrrraaaahhhh

    Saaaaaaarrrrrraaaaahhhhh

    Perry raised 30 million to run a state – what again did Palin do with her 30?

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  42. So you justify your hatred and lies by virtue of the fact that you don’t like her.

    I have never understood this little bit of idiocy from you. Why in the world does it matter that she has earned money? Of what concern is that of yours? Do people need your approval to earn money? What are acceptable jobs for people, as this seems to be a recurring theme for you.

    You claimed she state Gardasil was dangerous, when she knew it to not be. Lie. Never said it.

    You claimed she wanted her bear cubs to get cancer. Lie. Noxious lie.

    You claimed people would die because they were denied a cure to cancer for political reasons. Lie(s). Layers upon layers of lies. Too many to unpack.

    JD (af0807)

  43. I am a critic of what I make up she did and what I make up she says

    EPWJ – FTFY

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  44. I apologize to everyone for responding to this imbecile. I am going to go for a bike, and then a run, and hopefully, the assclown will have passed out again when I return. Again, my apologies.

    JD (af0807)

  45. Sarah Palin is so divisive it’s painful to watch sometimes

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  46. I was very interested in Perry until the debates. I did not like what I heard about the Rick Perry Dream Act. If I must settle for a Rino I will take the one with the financial backround and ability to get us out of this mess. Mitt Romney

    Dennis D (e0b996)

  47. I love the Rick Perry Dream Act it’s my favorite!

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  48. if you have to have illegal immigrants in your state cause your inept federal government can;t control the border then you for sure wanna keep the collegey ones in Texas and let the other ones drift wherever the wind takes em

    that’s just smart thinking

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  49. can’t I mean

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  50. JD

    On fox radio she said it was “new” the long term effects were not known yada yada yada

    Oh and she accused Perry of corruption without any basis

    Saaaaarrrrrraaaaahhhhhh

    Bike past those corn fields JD you know you’ll sleep walkin em tonight

    Saaaaaaaarrrrraaaaaahhhhhhhh

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  51. sometimes I think you’re unpleasant on purpose Mr. Johnson

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  52. . If I must settle for a Rino I will take the one with the financial backround and ability to get us out of this mess. Mitt Romney

    Comment by Dennis D — 9/15/2011 @ 4:14 pm

    His business work was very impression, but as governor he raised taxes and spending, which worked on a short term basis in 2003-2007 because those were, economically, the easiest times. Granted, he’s not a fool so hopefully he wouldn’t govern as he’s governed.

    Immigration is a weak point for Perry, but I’m not sure he’s quite as bad as some are making him out to be. Cheap tuition and not building a fence in the river aren’t really the end of the world.

    Anyway, I think your criteria is the best. Which of these candidates knows how to govern properly in a recession? Well, only one of the candidates has actually done it, but Perry has done it very well.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  53. From time to time, EPWJ goes full troll. He can’t help himself. And when I get upset with his silly antics, I remind myself that he has been a jerk to any number of people who merit respect from the majority of posters here.

    EPWJ does not have the respect of most of the posters here. And if he does, they sure are silent. Despite the “many people agree with me” nonsense.

    Just another weirdo. His goal is to irritate and play silly games. But then, look at his history. No surprise there, and a lot he ought to feel ashamed about.

    I mean, look at Mr. Feet. He says lots of things I don’t agree with, and has an odd fixation on a certain ex-Governor from Alaska. But he also can be pleasant and interesting.

    EPWJ, not so much. And, if you will excuse the expression, “many people agree with me” on that topic.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  54. “Oh and she accused Perry of corruption without any basis”

    EPWJ – Wrong. She accused him of crony capitalism, not being the Rick Perry she knew. The basis, which she outlined on air, was his former Chief of Staff going to work for a drug manufacturer and then Perry decided to mandate, with an opt out provision, that drug maker’s product to vaccinate all girls of a certain age within the state.

    You’re making stuff up again.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  55. Mr. Jester once we have a nominee that’s not a big fat stupid Romney I think a lot more comity will prevail and we will all pull together for America and sing songs and stuff

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  56. JD is suffering from Palin apologist syndrome

    Some symptoms are:

    Confusion over basic elementary economic principles

    Tourettes Syndrom

    Elaborate excusing of documented behavior

    Random outbursts of unfounded counter accusations

    thumbsucking

    curling up in fetal position

    whining

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  57. Mr. Eric you are needlessly personalizing an issue plus this whole McGinnis thing is gonna blow over really quickly I think unless Mr. Rice sells movie rights or something

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  58. Daley

    Put the Palin koolaid down, please, before you soil your adult diapers remaining dignity

    Or get another hernia from moving those goal posts

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  59. happyfeet, put the Palin kool-aid down!

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  60. Happy

    So if Sarah and Todd were coming over for dinner what would you serve? Pork fried rice or rice pudding?

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  61. Hey Leno’s going to say it tonight – might as well let Patterico dot com get the copyright

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  62. I would serve sammin cause that’s my only recipe for company

    I’m a crappy cook what can I say

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  63. “Cheap tuition and not building a fence in the river aren’t really the end of the world.”

    Dustin – The cheap tuition thing is something that bothers a lot of people and they frankly don’t understand Perry’s explanation. It has nothing to do with being braver because they are further away from the border. It’s an issue that has come up in many other states.

    Why give illegal aliens cheap tuition if by definition they are in the country illegally, cannot work here legally after college, and are not on a path to citizenship due to their illegal standing? Where is the logic?

    I understand illegals in Texas receiving in-state Tuition are required to fill out some type of form representing that they are taking steps to resolve their immigration status. WTF does that even mean?

    If we want to encourage legal immigration, don’t these types of programs send exactly the wrong signals?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  64. Too bad, I won’t be voting for him.

    Wayne (81a071)

  65. “Put the Palin koolaid down”

    EPWJ – If you put your bucket of Palin feces down, there is no reason for me to embarrass you with the truth.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  66. Daley

    If you look at the legislative history of this, it was as much of a red herring by the dems to divide conservatives and engender the support of hispanics who had previously supported Bush, as it was to be good policy

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  67. Dustin – The cheap tuition thing is something that bothers a lot of people and they frankly don’t understand Perry’s explanation.

    It bothers me too. I think it’s an incentive for people to bring their kids here.

    Perry’s explanation about the sound of last names is pretty insulting, if that’s what you’re referring to.

    I certainly have no problem with folks criticizing Perry. I’m just noting it’s not a nuclear level immigration failure like shamnesty.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  68. daley

    Palin detox is available at most Petsmarts and leading Vet Clinics on an out patient basis

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  69. Too bad, I won’t be voting for him.

    Comment by Wayne — 9/15/2011 @ 4:51 pm

    That’s how it works when you don’t like a candidate.

    Hopefully you can bring yourself to vote for him in the general, if he is nominated.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  70. Dustin

    Texas in state tuition is really high so its kinda a non thing

    And the state shoudnt be giving any kid thousands upon thousands in subsidies anyway

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  71. The history bears out, that these decisions don’t work:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  72. “If you look at the legislative history of this, it was as much of a red herring by the dems to divide conservatives and engender the support of hispanics who had previously supported Bush, as it was to be good policy”

    EPWJ – Dems couldn’t get the Dream Act passed at the federal level. States that look like they have their own version of it look pretty squishy.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  73. There is a lot of time left for self-inflicted political wounds. Early on I liked Bachmann, not so much anymore.

    Pawlenty has lined up behind Mit, Jindahl behind Perry. I already dislike the way Romney and Perry have gone at each other. They should stick with Newt’s advice, together in unison first say why Obama has to go. Make that point united, then discuss the secondary issue of who should replace him.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  74. EPWJ – How many sanctuary cities are there in Texas?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  75. “Texas in state tuition is really high so its kinda a non thing”

    EPWJ – At UT Austin, an in-state resident taking 12 credit hours of business this fall would pay $5,369 in tuition, while an out of state resident would pay $17,824. Care to revise your remarks?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  76. Daley

    It was passed before he was gov, modified in 2005 and was introduced again last year

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  77. Daley

    5000 in tuition is alot

    12000 for texas kids out of my tax money is outrageous whoever their parents are

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  78. Daley is right that there’s quite a difference in tuition rates.

    BTW, how in the hell is one undergrad semester at UT Austin worth $18k? It’s a great school, but that’s really pushing it.

    Which is why it’s great that Perry wants to make cheap University tuition an option. I think it was a 4 year degree for $10k.

    Anyway, while we’re bringing this issue up, let’s remember that Texas’s legislature nearly unanimously passed for this tuition rate for minors brought to Texas illegally.

    Doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. Frankly, I don’t think it is. But apparently the other view dominates Texas politics.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  79. What does Perry have that his fellow Texan Paul does not?

    Michael Ejercito (64388b)

  80. Michael

    a record of success

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  81. Well,

    We have a governor who befriended a dying woman, brought her to his family home, sat with her as she died. Spoke at her funeral years ago.

    I think someone said its what politicians do when we aren’t looking

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  82. EPWJ – Is there any subject about which you are not willing to lie?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  83. I think you have a better chance of getting into the law school if you do your undergrad there

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  84. The debate format, doesn’t lend itself to real statement of policies, even Fox twisted itself into pretzels over the line from Ephesians, which Bachmann was made to answer for (which was part of
    that attack on Dan Webster by Grayson)

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  85. I think I’m tough on illegal immigration: I support a fence, e-Verify, eliminating sanctuary cities, and deporting misdemeanor and felony criminals. But I understand the desire to help students who attended Texas high schools and want to go to college. Frankly, I oppose UT’s affirmative action programs (they’re effectively quotas for blacks and Hispanics) far more than I oppose letting Texas-educated illegal immigrants attend college at in-state rates.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  86. Daley

    You mean like the tuition at UT is 7670 not the UT El Paso Campus?

    You like you do – I’m not into the worship of a Governor that quit verses one that doesnt know the meaning of the word?

    Texas A&M (the big one not the one in Galveston, or Denton) is 7,330 in state

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  87. DRJ

    Yeah that was a total slap in the face

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  88. “Oh well, lets kill women by denying them a cure for cancer for political gain.”

    Palin said that the vaccine was dangerous on Fox news when she knew it wasnt

    momma grizzly wants cancer to eat her female cubs

    Has epwj defended these lies and smears yet? Didn’t think so ….

    You said she claimed the vaccine was dangerous, when she knew it was not. Nothing in your link or video supports that, because, in fact, she said nothing of the sort.

    You conflated vaccine and cure, and then accused people of denying treatment to kill women, when nobody was denied treatment. Nothing in your link supports that position.

    You claimed she wants cancer to kill her female children, and you suggest that is a rational conclusion to be drawn from presumably, her claim that this overall issue might suggest the possibility of some crony capitalism. No rational or sentient being could listen to her actual words in your link, and arrive at the conclusion that she wants cancer to kill her own female children.

    forcing Perry to not have a cure for cancer

    Are you a drooling imbecile?! Silly question, I know. Gardasil is no cure for cancer. Period.

    JD (af0807)

  89. Karl – Rizzoli and Isles is easy to watch.

    JD (af0807)

  90. I guess I can be counted among the minority who prefers to hear what Rick Perry stands for… what he proposes as solutions to what ails America, before I can support him as a candidate.

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  91. I enjoy reading Allahpundit’s posts, but that stuff about Jimmy Carter saying he would be “very pleased” if Romney was the R candidate being the “kiss of death” was one of the most dumb-assed things I’ve read this Summer. I was under the impression most critical thinkers wouldn’t give two rips what that sorry SOB had to say about anything.

    At least, that’s the way we see it at my house, but then, we’re conservatives here.

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  92. I agree Carter isn’t relevant except for it would be cool if he kicked it the week of the dem convention

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  93. oops that was out loud wasn’t it I meant it to be a bubble thought

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  94. I guess I can be counted among the minority who prefers to hear what Rick Perry stands for… what he proposes as solutions to what ails America, before I can support him as a candidate.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 9/15/2011 @ 6:30 pm

    I don’t think you’re asking for much. He has plenty of time to go ahead and fully explain his positions. And my preference for him being the nom does assume he’ll do that a certain way.

    But it’s not like I have nothing to go on as to how he governs.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  95. Good post. OTOH, Perry and Romney between them muster 50%.

    Sticking with the mandate, Feds handling the SS revenue, government is our friend and big business our daddy, Romney is running on empty calories.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  96. Comment by Karl — 9/15/2011 @ 11:08 am

    There’s strong evidence that Obama won most of those caucuses including his big win in Iowa because of massive ballot box stuffing.

    http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/obama-voter-fraud/2008/10/27/id/326134

    Gerald A (9d78e8)

  97. I found #57 hysterically funny, given this odd person’s posting habits.

    Mr. Feet, I am delighted to see you show enthusiasm for a candidate that you think is capable of winning, and is part-way to your preferences, politically. I worry like crazy that folks will sit out the election because the nominee isn’t “conservative enough” for them.

    Four more years of this administration is truly scary.

    Whoops. I have to go report myself. Come to think of it, I’m sure that some of our trollish posters already have.

    Simon Jester (c2616c)

  98. #92: JD, remember that a lot of people writing about this topic have utterly no background in biology. It’s kind of like me blathering on about the law.

    That doesn’t mean that people shouldn’t sound off. It does mean that folks should take into account the experience and background of the person.

    For example, when that gollum James Carville spouts off about global warming, I have to laugh. I very much doubt that he knows what clouds are made of, let alone the formula for carbon dioxide.

    Carville only cares about the politics. Sort of like the Gardasil debate has become.

    Simon Jester (c2616c)

  99. Amen, Simon.

    JD (af0807)

  100. @ DRJ (#89): You wrote,

    Frankly, I oppose UT’s affirmative action programs (they’re effectively quotas for blacks and Hispanics) far more than I oppose letting Texas-educated illegal immigrants attend college at in-state rates.

    Me, too. The premise of having different rates for in-state and out-of-state tuition is that out-of-state residents haven’t contributed to the tax base of the state (mostly via sales tax) and its political subdivisions (mostly via property tax). In-state tuition is the norm, and a large majority of the students at Texas’ state-supported schools qualify for it. Being charged out-of-state tuition is in the nature of an economic penalty assessed to level the playing field.

    However, illegals and their offspring generally do pay sales tax. They end up paying property taxes too, either directly (as when they are record owners of realty or taxable business property) or indirectly (through rents paid to the owners, who then pay the property taxes).

    DRJ, you’ve pointed out before that they do tend to add disproportionately to state and county Medicaid/uninsured costs. I agree with that. Moreover, it’s true that this instance of simply being economically fair (because illegals pay taxes that out-of-state residents don’t) is still a magnet for further illegal immigration, just like other entitlement programs that illegals find ways to benefit from.

    When we can reduce the attraction that illegal immigrants perceive, and we can do that without harming anyone who’s innocent, we ought indeed to do that. But I’m not insensitive to the argument that it’s painful to contemplate punishing young-adult children of illegals for a status over which their parents had control and over which they had no control. So I support the policy, even though it’s at the outer edge of benefits/entitlements I’d support.

    Beldar (297c12)

  101. Whether sons ought be made to bear the sins of their fathers is not a new question, by the way.

    Beldar (297c12)

  102. But I’m not insensitive to the argument that it’s painful to contemplate punishing young-adult children of illegals for a status over which their parents had control and over which they had no control.

    This again reminds me of the question that no GOP candidate full answered, with the exception (IIRC) of Ron Paul: What do we do with the 11 million here? All the candidates have no problem voicing support for securing the border (in a number of ways) but when pressed about those already here, they all fall back to the “Before we can discuss that, we must fist secure the borders” mantra. So what to do?

    To me, that is the most difficult part of the equation and one which there is no easy solution, save for Ron Paul….

    Dana (4eca6e)

  103. I have said this before, I will say it again:

    What happens more than a year before the election doesn’t mean JACK.

    The number of times in the last 40 years when the guy who was “out front” at the start stayed the course (excluding the obvious cases like incumbent Veeps) is pretty much ZERO.

    Anyone remember Gary Hart? He was the Rick Perry of his time.

    Further, the winning candidates NEVER are the ones expected. No one had heard of Bill Clinton by this point, outside of those in Arkansas. No one at this point would have even dared to suggest that The Big 0 would win the NOM, much less the election by this point in 07. Veep, maybe, but against Hillary? No WAY!

    Saying who is going to win right now is not even a crapshoot — in a crapshoot, there’s a good bet as to what will happen, it’s just not a great one.

    This is a scattershot point. Fill a shotgun with rock salt. Aim it at the rogues gallery up for the job, with a few random bozos thrown in for good measure. The one that gets the most rock salt in his ass is just as likely as anyone else to win it. And if none of them win, well, it was fun to picture anyway…

    Smock Puppet, Election Expert for Jeane Dixon (c9dcd8)

  104. .


    To me, that is the most difficult part of the equation and one which there is no easy solution,


    I concur that it’s not a simple problem — but it’s still a cart before the horse issue.

    Unless we secure the borders to stop any influx from returning, there is no point even discussing the matter. Until we’re willing and ready to do the securing, the other point is utterly and completely moot.

    So claiming we need to even discuss it before we’ve even shown the will to stop it from recurring is simply ludicrous.

    ==============================================

    It’s painful to contemplate punishing young-adult children of illegals for a status over which their parents had control and over which they had no control.


    You are correct. It’s not fair.

    Guess what?

    The universe isn’t a fair place.

    Is it right for the children of anyone to have to suffer the depredations of wars their parents’ generation got involved in? Is it right for children to have to suffer for a racial history they had no say in?

    Sometimes, there is no “fair” solution.

    We can always try and make the world more “fair”, but expecting it as a matter of recourse from all our systems is a recipe for either madness or poverty, and probably a good helping of both.

    “Fair” is an ideal not encountered in this place except where humans can successfully defy the natural order of things and make it otherwise.

    .

    Smock Puppet, Election Expert for Jeane Dixon (c9dcd8)

  105. Smock,

    A few points.

    1. On the current record, Rick Perry is nothing like Gary Hart, a senator who already unsuccessfully challenged Mondale in ’84 before imploding in ’88. Hart was a forerunner of the New Democrat who lost a battle against his party’s establishment. Perry may not be liked by the GOP establishment, but Perry is not challenging them in the way Hart challenged Mondale. (Indeed, the GOP insiders may graviate to Romney, but they don’t like him much, either.)

    2. It’s technically untrue that no one had heard of Bill Clinton before Nov 1991. Indeed, like Obama, he had a prime slot at the prior cycle’s DNC convention. He introduced Dukakis, and was memorably bad, by going way too long. Nevertheless, Clinton capitalized on the incident with a self-deprecating appearance on the Tonight Show (foreshadowing his ’92 shot on Arsenio). So while he was not widely-known when he got in, Clinton had quite good numbers with those who did know him (Nate Silver blogged on this a mew months back).

    3. As for Obama beating Hillary, I would refer you to comment #10. The CW may not have predicted it, but the factors cited in the post go some distance toward explaining it.

    4. Moreover, it’s notable that your examples are all Democratic contests. There is the somewhat greater tendency of the GOP to nominate the “next in line” (Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Dole, and McCain all fall itno this genl category) which I’ve written about at length previously. It’s a large part of why Romney was the front-runner, but also part of the reason I wrote the post (i.e., why that conventional wisdom might not hold this time). Traditionally, the GOP nominee has been easier to predict than the Dem nominee, so it’s worth examining the underlying factors to see that they likely point in another direction in this cycle.

    Karl (37b303)

  106. “However, illegals and their offspring generally do pay sales tax. They end up paying property taxes too, either directly (as when they are record owners of realty or taxable business property) or indirectly (through rents paid to the owners, who then pay the property taxes).”

    Beldar – I’m not sure I buy your argument, at least for where I live. The town in which I most recently lived is very high property tax with very little apartment stock. Homes are rented by owners. Affordable housing proposals meets stiff resistance at village meetings.

    The illegal immigrant population, typically tends to be clustered at the very lower end of the housing scale, apartment or home rental, and typically receives public assistance for school meals.

    You may be completely correct that cash coming in directly or indirectly to offset public services provided to illegal immigrants, but my gut feeling is the cash does not offset the costs and I have never been asked to vote on what portion of my property tax bill I want earmarked for education and social services for illegal immigrants.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  107. I have a problem with Rick Perrys opposition to SB1070………………..Forgot she was a racist according to the la razabots.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  108. She meaning Jan Brewer.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  109. If Bolton entered the race, I would instantly line up behind him and donate to his campaign. Are there enough like me? The idea of candidate Bolton or, dare I say it, President Bolton, excites the hell out of me!

    I have no idea what Bolton thinks about any domestic issue. Do you? I’d like to see him as Secretary of State, but president?!

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  110. What this site needs is a Johnson filter, for those days when you don’t feel like listening to idiotic, though generally harmless, babble.

    You’re welcome

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  111. Why give illegal aliens cheap tuition if by definition they are in the country illegally, cannot work here legally after college, and are not on a path to citizenship due to their illegal standing? Where is the logic?

    The logic is that their parents have paid for it with their taxes just like everyone else’s parents did, so why the hell should they pay more just because of where they were born? Students from other states are charged extra because their parents don’t pay any taxes.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  112. I have a problem with Rick Perrys opposition to SB1070…

    What opposition? He never opposed it. He just said he didn’t think Texas needed a law like that.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  113. “The logic is that their parents have paid for it with their taxes just like everyone else’s parents did, so why the hell should they pay more just because of where they were born?”

    Milhouse – The logic that is missing is that they are in the country illegally. Why do we publicly acknowledge their presence in violation of the law by giving them the same tuition rates as legal residence.

    The bit about not holding them responsible for the sins of the parents is just kicking the can down the road or pointing the finger elsewhere. Somebody is responsible. Either we are serious about our immigration laws or we are not. Publicly touting in-state tuition rates for illegal immigrants send the message that a state is not serious about immigration laws very loudly and clearly.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  114. Milhouse – The logic that is missing is that they are in the country illegally. Why do we publicly acknowledge their presence in violation of the law by giving them the same tuition rates as legal residence.

    For the same reason the supermarket doesn’t charge them extra. Why the hell should they pay extra? They’re entitled to the same rate that any other taxpayer pays; not giving it to them would be unfair.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  115. OT. Waaaay OT, but today is the day for Andrew Sullivan suicide watch. Levi wrecks teh Bristol is Trig’s mama narrative for all time.

    Johnston says when Bristol found out her mother, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, was expecting a baby she responded she should be having a baby, not her mother. He says she told him in March 2008, “let’s get pregnant.”

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-bc-us–people-levijohnston,0,4635208.story?obref=obinsite

    elissa (ca1a61)

  116. Yes, I was surprised with the Journolist revelations last summer, how many reporters were
    so stupid, but it’s yet another attack, likely ordered by Rex and Tank, his handlers,

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  117. Karl-

    I think you give a good analysis (at #110), but I think Smock’s main point was that a candidate can do something dumb and eliminate themselves, and this far out gives a lot of time to do that. Beyong that, he was using a bit of hyperbole, I think.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  118. I don’t see how it’s “punishing” an illegal alien by denying them a rather extraordinary privilege. The US has the finest universities in the world, and they were built by Americans, at great expense and effort, for the use of Americans.

    No matter the reason, a person illegally present in this country is simply not entitled to be here. Full stop. They are certainly not entitled to the extraordinary privilege under iscussdion here. I am sure they have colleges somewhere in Mexico, and even if they do not, this is not the concerrn of Americans.

    The arguments based on economics and tax receipts are absurd. (You want to sell your country because somebody with no claim on America paid sales tax?!? This is where we are?!)

    A nation is more than a set of regulations and conveniences. Do you want to live in a “country” that is recognizably the United States, or do you merely want to live on a patch of real estate marked “Storage Area Five for Assorted Random Indigents Worldwide”?

    d. in c. (1e48bc)

  119. “For the same reason the supermarket doesn’t charge them extra. Why the hell should they pay extra? They’re entitled to the same rate that any other taxpayer pays; not giving it to them would be unfair.”

    Milhouse – I read Beldar’s argument above. Your restatement and repetition of it does not persuade me more.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  120. MD in Philly (123)

    Thanks. Of course, a candidate can always implode, or simply run a bad campaign (as HRC did in ’08). That’s why Perry is the likely nominee, not the inevitable nominee.

    Karl (37b303)

  121. The interesting thing about the Hart example, is that much as with Dean, 16 years later, they thought
    the candidates were not left enough,

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  122. At this point it’s really some combination of Romney or Perry matched with Ryan or Rubio. I think Palin has played her hand wrong if she wanted to get in; maybe she never did.

    Bachmann, Cain and Paul are no longer serious candidates, Gingrich and Huntsman have something like the professional cred but not nearly enough wind in their sails. Maybe Christie will surprise us but I doubt it.

    An outside-politics guy like Trump or Cain has a steep uphill climb and so would need to be in already. Bloomberg is preposterous. Unless there’s another multi-term R governor with a fine reputation who’s been under the radar (not people like Jindal or Daniels), I think this slate is pretty much it. Any other names worth mentioning? (Maybe Jeb Bush will change his name to Gonzalez and campaign in a wig, Lawd help us…)

    d. in c. (352bcf)

  123. 128. Ace on Perry(and therefore, Romney): “You can close a deal with nagging consumer doubts, but it’ll take a long time, and the client will never really be satisfied with his choice.”

    Together, nationally, these two can’t scrape together 50% support. The earliest primary deadline for entry is Oct. 31.

    There’s a lot of bad economic news left to bubble up between then and now.

    People who say it’s late do not know whereof they speak.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  124. Comment by Milhouse — 9/16/2011 @ 12:28 am

    You are conflating “public” and “private”.
    Public schools are supported by tax-dollars for the benefit of the citizens and legal-residents of that particular state, subsidizing the cost of education for their benefit, and charging out-of-state students the (perceived) true cost of that education.
    The super-market is a private enterprise, free to grant benefits, or not, as it sees fit and is not a unit of the state government.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (5be9ff)

  125. BTW, does Harvard or Stanford have different tuition schedules for in-state, or out-of-state students?
    No, I do not think they do.
    As Private Institutions, they charge the posted price (less any adjustments available to qualified recipients) to everyone.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (5be9ff)

  126. Can anybody explain to me why I should not view Perry as a pro-amnesty governor?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  127. Public schools are supported by tax-dollars for the benefit of the citizens and legal-residents of that particular state,

    Says who? On what basis do you claim that tax dollars are raised, from legal and illegal residents equally, for the benefit of only legal ones? Are you psychic, or are you just imposing your own wishes on reality? It’s much more reasonable to assume that taxes are raised for the benefit of all taxpayers.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  128. Cain is more of a serious candidate than Flip Flopney.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  129. I would have to weigh a vote for Romney very carefully against the 26 cents of gas I would burn to get to the polls

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  130. I would have to weigh a vote for Romney very carefully against the 26 cents of gas I would burn to get to the polls

    So get on those happy feet and walk! I know this is Just Not Done in LA, but since when have you been a respecter of convention?

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  131. Daley

    How would you then view Reagan? I understand what you’re saying and appreciate it

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  132. i just remembered I don’t know where my new polling place is

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  133. cause of I moved

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  134. Over here they send you a postcard before every election reminding you of where it is, which is useful if it or you have moved. Plus, if the Post Office returns it, they can remove you from the roll.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  135. feets, your sample ballot, when you receive it and if you changed your address on your voter registration, will contain the location of your polling place.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks ! (5be9ff)

  136. Comment by Milhouse — 9/16/2011 @ 11:45 am

    Over here they send you a postcard before every election reminding you of where it is, which is useful if it or you have moved. Plus, if the Post Office returns it, they can remove you from the roll.

    Except for elections involving only judges, where they don’t really want any campaigning.

    In this week’s election, one polling place was moved to my polling site. So everybody who lived in that election district got a postcard saying the polling place had moved. It didn’t mention that only Democrats could vote in the September primary here or that there was only a contest between two judicial candidates.

    Nobody else got any postcards. So a number of extra people came in from that election district.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3de3a)

  137. “How would you then view Reagan?”

    EPWJ – Explain how Reagan’s views differed from Perry’s and answer it yourself. I’m asking for explanations about Perry’s positions, not others and not goal post shifting.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  138. “Says who?”

    Milhouse – Another Drew did in comment #133 and it is perfectly reasonable position. I am not aware of any legal requirement that says we must turn a blind eye to the enforcement of our immigration laws and provide education and other social services to people residing in this country illegally. If Congress has written such a law, perhaps you can point me to it.

    Just because you believe borders are an artificial construct or some absurd notion, and that people should be able to pick and choose what laws to obey, does not mean it is unreasonable for other people to have different views.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  139. Daley – brace yourself for an avalanche of asshattery, a tsunami of stupid.

    JD (0b8a2b)

  140. I was actually referring to what I expect from epwj, but it looks like I was referring to Milhouse.

    JD (ac417f)

  141. Daley and EPWJ deserve each other.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  142. Smock Puppet, Election Expert for Jeane Dixon — 9/15/2011 @ 8:36 p

    Anyone remember Gary Hart?

    Of course. He was George McGovern’s campaign manager, although I don’t remember him from 1972. But he was described that way and he was Senator from Colorado. (1974 election)

    He first ran for President in 1984 and he was the main competition for Walter Mondale. His main theme was “new ideas” He didn’t discuss any particular new idea, just the idea of new ideas. I guess it polled well. But Walter Mondale said “Where’s the Beef” and he was toast.

    He prepared to run again in 1988. Now Bill Clinton was planning to run, we know now. He had created Super Tuesday just for himself. He needed to get some big candidates out of the race. First he got Joe Biden out. Yes, people in the Dukakis campaign did that but I suspect Clinton was behind it.

    Then it was the turn of Gary Hart. This is just my suspicion. Clinton had mob connections. So did the people who set up Gary Hart.

    Gary Hart dropped out in May 1987. But then Clinton dropped out himself. He was expected to announce for President, then postponed it, then did not.

    At the time he claimed it was for his family. Later they claimed it was because he couldn’t avoid bimbo eruptions. Just what woman was a problem? Why did that not deter him in 1991/2. No, that was another lie.

    He dropped out, or didn’t get in, in July 1987 because he discovered his strategy just wouldn’t work, so long as Al Gore was in the race. Al Gore also had a claim to be a southern candidate and Al Gore wasn’t quitting, or rather he quit ad he got back in, his whole strategy was dependent on being the only southern candidate and there being no bog competition. he probably did repeated polling and discovered nothing worked. he would not break out of the pack. Jesse Jackson would pick up the blacks and then he’d get all the black candidates.

    So now Clinton had to find a Democrat who would lose so he could run in 1992. He got behind Michael Dukakis, a Massachusetts Democrat. Massachusetts was the only state McGovern had carried. What better prospect was there for someone to lose? At the convention, he also arranged for his ally, Ron Brown, to become Democratic National Chairman.

    Gary hart actually re-entered the race in 1988, but he had lost his momentum and he just could not achieve liftoff.

    [Gary Hart] was the Rick Perry of his time.

    The 1984 Gary Hart, the 1987 Gary Hart or the 1988 Gary Hart? I guess you mean 1987.

    Further, the winning candidates NEVER are the ones expected.

    And even if they do sometimes they become unexpected in the middle. Cf Kerry in 2004 McCain in 2008.

    No one had heard of Bill Clinton by this point, outside of those in Arkansas.

    I had heard of him in 1987, but only as aname.

    And in 1991. I first thought of him as shallow, because of what he said about the Soviet coup Later I learned more. Of course that he was liar. this guy ran as a candidate who had supported the Gulf War when really he had pretty much opposed it.

    No one at this point would have even dared to suggest that The Big 0 would win the NOM, much less the election by this point in 07. Veep, maybe, but against Hillary? No WAY!

    This year is not the first year people understood things were unpredictable.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3de3a)

  143. Milhouse #133: “from legal and illegal residents equally, for the benefit of only legal ones?”

    Now we’re truly in the central shopping district of beautiful downtown Wackyville. “for the benefit of only legal ones?” Well you know, there aren’t supposed to be (Sam Kinison yell) ANY OTHER KIND!!

    Illegal “residents” (actually invaders, but we won’t quibble today) have no legitimate claim to be here, and no claim to any “benefit” of any kind. None. Full stop. There is no “legal and illegal alike” balance to be found, as if these were equal communities with equal claims; that is after all what “legal” means. In fact, the very idea that I have to use the word “legal” illustrates just how vastly this debate has become distorted. For instance, I am not a “legal resident”, I am a bloody citizen of my country. The absurd intrusion of words like “undocumented” and “illegal” have created false dichotomies that warp our very sense of accurate discourse. George Orwell, call your office.

    Given their shamelessness, their numbers, their aggression, their contempt and their sheer intransigence, I think it’s fair to say that “illegals” have long since forfeited any moral claim they ever had (they’ve never had a legal or political claim) to our patience, our charity, or our –ahem– tolerance.

    We’ve already handed over our public schools, our hospitals, our public transportation systems, our very sense of a shared public space. Now you want to hand over our universities, too.

    Tell me this: when are you going to hand over your own house?

    d. in c. (88f3db)

  144. Milhouse – Should Israel have open borders with its neighbors, since borders are meaningless according to your philosophy? If not, why not?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  145. Milhouse is the new Cyrus Sanai of this blog.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  146. I’m very excited to vote but not for Romney cause that would be same as being part of the problem not part of the solution and I want very badly to be part of the solution

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  147. who was the old Cyrus Sanai?

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  148. Sammy – Donna Rice. Monkey Business.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  149. Mr. Feets – Cyrus

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  150. Because there are evil people on the other side who want to conquer the land kill all the Jews. If there were some way to filter out the evil murderers and let in the peaceful Arabs who just want to get a job and not dispute the Jewish sovereignty over the land, then Israel would make them welcome. The Torah says to welcome the stranger; so long as he behaves as a guest should.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  151. Milhouse – So your answer is that border are important. Thank you.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  152. And before you start, Daley, the “American people” do not have any sort of God-given right to sovereignty over the land the USA currently controls. There’s absolutely no reason why people from Mexico shouldn’t immigrate, become citizens, and share in that sovereignty. You know, just like “Americans” immigrated into Mexico, became citizens, and ended up being a majority in Texas. Unless you’re some sort of racist, that is.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  153. ==welcome the stranger; so long as he behaves as a guest should==

    “guests” are expected to return home eventually

    elissa (ca1a61)

  154. Nope, borders are arbitrary. There’s nothing sacred about the current Israeli border, any more than there was about the one before ’67, which was officially declared in the ’49 armistice not to be a border. It’s just where the soldiers stopped the last time.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  155. Except that America, unlike Israel, is an immigrant nation; we all came because America welcomes all peaceful people who want to come and become citizens. What gives us the right today to shut the doors?

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  156. “Unless you’re some sort of racist…”

    Here we go again.

    Okay, define what you mean by “racist”.

    I’m gonna keep doing this until the Mister Magoos of the world put on some glasses and quit bumping into the furniture.

    d. in c. (ac417f)

  157. Milhouse – Before you go full retard again, borders are drawn by treaty. I have not claimed any God given rights, so check your BS at the door. It seems to be your position that it is unreasonable for anyone to give a crap who has or will enter this country without permission, for whatever reason they care.

    I say that is an unreasonable and intellectually dishonest position based upon what you just said about Israel. Why don’t you provide a list of other countries which do not attempt to control or track who enters their country?

    [note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  158. The Israeli border is guarded because it has to be. Until 10 years and a week ago, I thought the USA border didn’t need guarding, so it shouldn’t be. The threat from Al Qaeda demonstrated that the USA border also needs guarding to keep out dangerous people; but it is illegitimate to also keep out peaceful people who just want to come and get jobs and be productive, whether they intend to stay for a while or to remain and become Americans. If we had some foolproof way to keep out only the bad people, a “smart fence” that was impervious to criminals but permeable to peaceful people, then I’d want that implemented. Unfortunately we don’t, so we have to keep everyone from crossing unless they’ve been vetted. But once someone has successfully crossed the border, and has demonstrated by years of industry that they are the sort of people who should have been let in in the first place, why would we even want to expel them, let alone what right do we have?

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  159. d. in c., why don’t you just go vote for Patrick Buchanan or David Duke and leave us alone?

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  160. “What gives us the right today to shut the doors?”

    The government we elected.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  161. “Except that America, unlike Israel, is an immigrant nation”

    Milhouse – How many Jews were there in “Israel” before 1920?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  162. I asked a simple question: what do you mean by the word “racist”?

    You declined to reply, and offered up some foam about David Duke instead.

    Smart feller — the best way to avoid a drubbing is to run away.

    d. in c. (0b8a2b)

  163. Stupid people like me should stop challenging Milhouse. Why do we even have laws? Milhouse will tell us what is important in each different situation and also for each country around the world as it differs from our own situation, because principles are so flexible.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  164. Why do we even have laws? Milhouse will tell us what is important in each different situation and also for each country around the world as it differs from our own situation, because principles are so flexible.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/16/2011 @ 1:18 pm

    I noticed Milhouse didn’t dismiss the Torah’s teaching though — IOW, that law wasn’t flexible or negotiable. That was interesting.

    no one you know (325a59)

  165. Some borders are more legitimate than others. Same with laws. Either can be ignored, depending on whether or not you agree with it.

    JD (318f81)

  166. it is illegitimate to also keep out peaceful people who just want to come and get jobs and be productive

    Only after we’ve fully employed our own peaceful people.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  167. Badge licking authoritarian nativist racist xenophobic jingoistic jeebus humping monster truck prayer rallying Palin loving cracker moon pie eating gap tooth sister marrying redneck fools, the lot of you.

    Denounced and condemned.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  168. Some people don’t want us to impose our values on other people, while others say we shouldn’t legislate moral behavior. In truth, we do this all the time, because if we didn’t this country wouldn’t exist.

    We are either a nation of laws or we are not. This applies to illegal immigration, among other transgressions.

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  169. Milhouse: why would we even want to expel them, let alone what right do we have?

    Sophistry, but sophistry is a powerful thing.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)

  170. Illegals are peaceful?

    Lay off the wacky tobaccy.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  171. Only after we’ve fully employed our own peaceful people.

    What is this, protectionism?!

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  172. Its funny that there is no bill to tell Obama he must tell us when he leaves the country.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  173. 177. Dog’s bestest BBs, Hugo, Fidel and Unca Bob lookin’ peeked lately.

    Who’s got the run of Angola or Zambia lately? Bet he can’t get more than $10 million in liquid barter out of the country, he’s that weak.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  174. 166. I think the evident daftness of the quote has chased another secularist.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  175. Notice how Herr Terp Mole is using thatcher and reagan[who his ilk hated] to praise the libyan jew haters.

    Hot Air needs better trolls.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  176. Unless we secure the borders to stop any influx from returning, there is no point even discussing the matter. Until we’re willing and ready to do the securing, the other point is utterly and completely moot.

    So claiming we need to even discuss it before we’ve even shown the will to stop it from recurring is simply ludicrous.

    Smock,

    While I agree we need to see the will to stop it is critical, I don’t believe that renders discussing what to do with the 11 million, moot.

    The fact of the matter is, we can only go by what a candidate tells us they would do. Of course all of the candidates assure us securing our borders is something they will aggressively do, and each come with a plan in hand. I expect they would not be running as R candidates without such claims and plans. However, it’s a two-fold problem: securing the border *and* 11 million illegals already here. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to discuss it as one big issue that falls under illegal immigration. Both parts are of great importance and the lack of solution for both issues have wrought untold complications in our country as a result.

    Whether amnesty is granted or whether they are returned to Mexico, or perhaps some sort of work program re-instituted, each would set a precedent.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  177. Milhouse

    Dalry isnt a racist – not by a long shot

    EricPWJohnson (719277)

  178. I’m quite confident that people who claim that national borders are nothing but artificial constructs take that same position with respect to property lines, and that it would be wrong to evict those who “squat” on the property of others.

    Bill Clinton (5be9ff)

  179. I wonder if it ever occured to any of you who seem to be so against in-state tuition for the children of illegals that many of those children were actually born in the U.S.?

    So you would rather punish the kids because of the crime of illegal entry on the part of the parents? Yeah, that’s the America I know. NOT!

    These kids are allowed to complete their education all the way through high school (Plyler) but you’re going to tell them that you don’t want them to become doctors, nurses, teachers, scientists, engineers, etc. because their parents either drug them here when they were little or they were born here to illegal parents. The feds are NOT going to deport them, so you want to make sure that even the kids born here, just because their parents are illegals, should be condemned to nothing but mediocre jobs the rest of the lives.

    When Obama flew into Austin to do his El Paso “the borders are safer than ever” speech and to attend a $38,500/plate dinner to raise campaign funds, Rick Perry handed him a detailed letter asking for more Border Patrol and National Guard on the Texas/Mexico border. Obama waved him off and told him to give the letter to that scumbag, Valerie Jarrett. Do your damn research. What other border state has spent so much of its own money trying to protect the border? Read anything about Jan Brewer putting her crack Arizona State Troopers on the border? No, you say?

    retire05 (674325)

  180. Please go take your pro-amnesty crap somepleace else……………even If the children were not born here people like you would still support in-state tutiton for illegals.

    Romneybots accusing Perry of Crony capitalism is ironic.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  181. If the children of illegals are born here, then under current law, they are citizens, and there is no question that they are entitled to “in-state tuition” if, in fact, they are “in-state” residents.
    The argument is over “in-state tuition” for those children who were brought across the border after their birth, and educated in the United States K-12, for they are “illegal aliens”, and not citizens.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (5be9ff)

  182. retire05 – Do your damn research. Heh.

    Nobody has come forward to explain why Perry should not be considered a pro-amnesty governor. Thank you.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  183. Careful they will shout about how your a palin cultist and demand you get your head out of her anal orifice.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  184. Romney should just man up and run as the Democrat.

    Sieze the moment.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  185. Nobody has come forward to explain why Perry Reagan should not be considered a pro-amnesty governor President

    I think this is what he was really saying

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  186. Here is what Daley was/is/could be referring to:

    The act was signed into law by President Ronald Reagan. An estimated 3 million unauthorized immigrants received amnesty under the act. A May 26, 2006 New York Times article arrived at the figure 2.8 million: 1.7 million under a general amnesty, plus 90% of the 1.3 million that applied under a special program for agricultural workers.[1]

    I know Perry looks a bit like Reagan so the mistake is understandable

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  187. other studies and claims indicate/are that Reagans amnesty led to another 12 million hispanics entering the country legally as relatives of those granted amnesty and by birth – one of the indicators for the explosive growth of the hispanic population to almost 40% of the electorate by 2020

    http://www.google.com/search?q=reagans+amnesty+led+to+hispanic+growth&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7ADFA_en

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  188. “I think this is what he was really saying”

    EPWJ – No. I was making no comparison to Reagan. You were the one who introduced the comparison. My words stand alone.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  189. EPWJ,

    What exactly is driving you? I just don’t understand the motivation to go to thread after thread like you do…
    Kind of the annoying kid who says “go on hit me” gets smacked and then repeats all over again.

    vor2 (5dc2fb)

  190. “I know Perry looks a bit like Reagan so the mistake is understandable”

    EPWJ – Explain Perry’s position on illegal aliens residing in this country, attending college, etc., please.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  191. vor2 – Long time no see!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  192. Hi Daley. Still lurking for the most part. Sort of a self imposed thing about posting in general — easy to get too caught up in it.
    Have tried to replace with more reading time. Knocked out more books in the past few months than I have in years. Oddly enough it was Patterico’s recommendation about Novak’s book that got me to follow this blog site.
    Hope all is well with you and yours!

    vor2 (5dc2fb)

  193. vor2 – Thank yo. Yes all is well.

    I don’t know what Perry’s policy is for illegal alien’s in this country is or if he’s even got one. The fact that none of his supporters will explain what it is makes me think either he does not have one or it is so out of the mainstream they want to dodge the question.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  194. he wants a guest worker program and more boots on the ground at the border, which, these are both things we haven’t tried in modern-day declining incompetent America, so it could very likely be a change for the better over what we have now, which is gayer than naked putin line dancing

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  195. That was the promise of Simpson/Mazzoli, it didn’t really work out, and it unraveled spectacularly after 1994, and the devaluation, Hence, Prop 187, I’m sure you recall, which was bludgeoned like a baby seal by the courts

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  196. if this election is about immigration then Team R doesn’t really understand what the important issues are and they should just nominate Michele “tardasil” Bachmann and encourage her to pick Tom Tancredo as her veep I think

    mmmm

    that’s zeitgeisty!

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  197. Mr. Feets and ian – What about people already here? Is he promoting that path to citizenship, pay your back taxes gay program that went down in flames last time?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  198. I don’t know what he wants to do about people here maybe he wants to kick the can down the road a bit

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  199. “if this election is about immigration”

    Mr. Feets – Haven’t you read the latest memes, this election is about loving Barack Obama and repealing the 20th century.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  200. I have no clue, what he’s going to do about it, which is somewhat dissapointing, him being a candidate and all, maybe he’ll just wing it, like he did with QE 2, and social security.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  201. I love him like herpes

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  202. “I don’t know what he wants to do about people here maybe he wants to kick the can down the road a bit”

    Mr. Feets – He wants to make sure the chirren have access to Texas Universities even though they can’t legally work in this country after graduation, so I guessing he must have some plan in mind that it gayer than Helen Thomas belly dancing.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  203. “I love him like herpes”

    Mr. Feets – It’s only a cold sore.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  204. ‘goggles they do nothing’ Daley.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  205. Kicking cans?

    Crappyfeet what would you know about kicking cans?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  206. Romneytards accusing others of rumor-mongering is ironic.

    Rick Perrys stance on Illegals is as repulsive as Helen Thomas in a speedo.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  207. hello illegal immigrant what are you doing here at college? This is not for you, silly.

    Hola felizpies! I am here cause of the Mr. Rick Perry said it was ok!’

    oh. Well there must be some mistake, dirty illegal immigrant. These schools are only for the native-born Texas boys and girls not for you.

    My goodness but I already bought mis libros.

    You can take them back still do not worry.

    But I did not keep the receipts senor felizpies!

    See right there what does that tell you? Not every child can learn.

    I suppose you are right senor. Aye what was I theenking?

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  208. Right. and I’m sure you’ll be able to cut back the spendings right away, that is the way it works in California, no wait,

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  209. higher education in California is already imploding nicely it has nuffing to do with illegal immigrant people

    Faced with a state budget crisis, the University of California system on Thursday began examining a possible tuition increase up to 16% in fall 2012 and continuing that increase over the following three years, nearly doubling tuition, if state funding is flat.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  210. “These schools are only for the native-born Texas boys and girls not for you.”

    Mr. Feets – First mistake right there. Student from other states in the U.S. may apply and attend Texas universities as well as foreign students with approved student visas. The illegals need to be reminded they are subject to arrest and deportation on their way to buy an ice cream cone at every opportunity and must continue living in the shadows where lawbreakers belong in the greatest country in the world instead of flaunting their lawbreaking status at our institutions of higher learnings because we are above all a nation of laws and teh fairness are we not.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  211. Gross

    JD (17012e)

  212. I just can’t get excited about it Mr. daley I’m more concerned with the unholy spendings and the horrific regulatings and the ghastly inability of our sad little country to produce its own energies, much less for reals jobs.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  213. Mr. Feets – My mistake, I thought you were getting excited about the Mr. Putin naked line dancings.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  214. not unless they do the thing with the funny hats

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  215. he has nice cowboy boots.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  216. putin on the ritz

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  217. :roll: Crappyfeet just had a jimmy in his pants at the thought of Putin being naked.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  218. did not

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  219. EPWJ – Explain Perry’s Reagans position on illegal aliens residing in this country, attending college, etc., please.

    I cant Daley, Reagan as Gov of Calfornia raised taxes, signed the abortion bill that later made abortion the law of the land, and he seemed to have no record of ever enforcing his border or ever arresting an illegal and is said to have had several working his ranch.

    I can’t explain Reagan’s position on Illegal aliens

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  220. EPWJ can you explain why your such a turd?

    You give the palin fanbois a run for their money.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  221. Putin, maybe a stone cold killer, but he has a better grasp of the global economy, than most people in Washington, which is in itself, a backhanded compliment,

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  222. I see, because I don’t believe in punishing children for the crimes of their parents I am now pro-amnesty?

    Got it.

    Perhaps y’all should research the SCOTUS case Plyler. The SCOTUS said that children of illegals cannot be denied an education thru the 12the grade. And until the SCOTUS changes that ruling, it stands.

    Instead of worrying that kids who are the children of illegals, and often born here being U.S. citizens, are getting in-state tuition in Texas, and Oklahoma, New Mexico, Washington state, Utah and one other state, you should concentrate on getting the feds to put more boots on the ground on our southern border.

    You ignore that Perry has asked for thousands of National Guard on the border, repeatedly. His requests have been denied, time after time, by Obama. When Obama put 1,200 NG on the border for a short time, Texas, with the longest border on Mexico of all the border states, got a whopping 250 NG. You ignore that Texas has used more of its own state resources to secure the Mexican border than any other state, including Arizona. You ignore that the Texas Rangers Recon Squad, under the direction of Perry, fired back on the drug slugs firing on them from the Mexican side, killing a couple of them, unlike the NG that was ordered not to shoot back.

    retire05 (674325)

  223. Dohbiden

    thats it?

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  224. in-state tuition for the prawns of illegal immigrant loins is not supportable. How much of Obama’s Stimulus went to Rick Perry’s Texas, retire05?

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  225. twin naked Putins bareback on a horse… happyfeet… I await your denial of a chubby on the rise.

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  226. You have inadvertently backed into the truth:

    http://www.thesocialcontract.com/articles/plyler-v-doe.html

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  227. Romney should just man up and run as the Democrat.

    Sieze the moment.

    Comment by gary gulrud

    I got your “moment” hangin’, gulrud.

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  228. “I see, because I don’t believe in punishing children for the crimes of their parents I am now pro-amnesty?”

    retire05 – No, you are consistently missing the point for some reason.

    The government is not holding the parents responsible for being in this country illegally and dragging their children with them. They are ignoring both. You choose to focus only on the children. Strange.

    Perry’s border strategy has been discussed elsewhere and is not being ignored.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  229. “EPWJ – Explain Perry’s Reagans position on illegal aliens residing in this country, attending college, etc., please.”

    In your cups already?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  230. EPWJ – Is Reagan on the ballot this year? What is wrong with you?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  231. :roll: Whenever anyone brings up Perrys record you whine about Reagans record or Bushs record

    DohBiden (d54602)

  232. “… Perry has asked for thousands of National Guard on the border…”
    Comment by retire05 — 9/17/2011 @ 10:36 am

    No, what Perry has asked for is for the Feds to pay for it by “Federalizing” the Guard and posting it on the Border.
    At any time Perry wishes to post the TX National Guard on the Border, he may do so, as long as the State of Texas is paying the bill.
    And, as they can be deputized as State LE, they are not constrained by the Posse Comitatus Act from conducting LE duties. But, he might face a suit from the Holder Justice Dept for interjecting TX into the immigration arena just as AZ did under SB1070, and has to defend itself in Federal Court for doing so.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (b23ca8)

  233. Perry in 2006, still does not address issue of illegals already present in country:

    “As I have said repeatedly, you can’t have homeland security without border security, and there is no sense in reforming immigration laws if we cannot enforce them. And I have said equally as often that immigration reform without border security is meaningless.

    Divisive language on the subject of border security and immigration reform is simply not constructive or useful in solving the problem. We cannot be a nation that is anti-immigrant because we are in fact a nation of immigrants. In fact, foreign-born citizens are some of the strongest supporters of tougher border security measures. Clearly, something has to be done because our hospitals, schools, and other service providers are being flooded with illegal immigrants at a great cost to taxpayers.

    But to me neither amnesty nor mass deportation is the answer. The first unfairly rewards those who broke our laws, and the latter is not only unrealistic and unenforceable, but it would devastate our economy. That’s why I support a guest worker program that takes undocumented workers off the black market and legitimizes their economic contributions without providing them citizenship status.

    I would rather know who is crossing our border legally to work instead of not knowing who is crossing our border illegally to work. A guest worker program that provides foreign workers with an ID removes the incentive for millions of people to illegally enter our country. It also adds those workers to our tax base, generates revenue for needed social services and it can be done without providing citizenship.
    Along with millions of Americans, I think it is wrong to reward those who broke our laws with citizenship ahead of those who have followed the law and are waiting to enter this country legally. And like millions of Americans I do not support amnesty.”

    Squish! Maybe he and Lindsey Grahamnesty can come up with a plan.

    http://governor.state.tx.us/news/editorial/10326/

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  234. as long as guest workers don’t unionize it’s all good

    the piggy piggy union whores we already have are PLENTY

    plenty plenty plenty

    we all full up with piggy piggy union whores thanks

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  235. PerryRonald Regan in 1984 debate


    I BELIEVE IN THE IDEA OF AMNESTY FOR THOSE WHO HAVE PUT DOWN ROOTS AND HAVE LIVED HERE EVEN THOUGH SOME, SOME TIME BACK THEY MAY HAVE ENTERED ILLEGALLY

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/ronald-reagan-on-immigration-i-believe-in-the-idea-of-amnesty/

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  236. http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/reagan-and-bush-debate-illegal-immigration/

    Perry Reagan talking about open borders and guest working programs in 1980

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  237. Guest Workers should have hard return dates on their paperwork, and it should be enforced.
    If they “disappear” and miss their return, a warrant should be issued for their apprehension and deportation, with prejudice.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (b23ca8)

  238. wednesday’s guest worker is helpful and kind

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  239. Is Perry supposed to be zombie Ronald Reagan or sumpin?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  240. No he is supposed to be like a God or sumthin.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  241. Mr. Governor Perry is a simple man what is likely to pursue economic policies what will be extremely beneficial for out declining and sad little country.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  242. excuse me *our* declining and sad little country I mean

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  243. Daley,

    Why didnt the great communicator, communicate the “need” to guard our border – why was the greatist conservative of all time opposed to INS checks and fines on employers?

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  244. The “RR was for amnesty” is supposed to be a convincing argument? One of the main reasons many Republicans today are so contemptuous of the amnesty thing is because good hearted Ronald Reagan who well understood what was happening in California actually trusted that the conditions of his administration’s amnesty would be met. They weren’t–there was no ongoing enforcement–American citizens were punked–America has been flooded with illegals ever since. The candidate I vote for is going to have to do some problem solving and convincing on the Amnesty/guest worker issue.

    elissa (865f7b)

  245. Ronald Reagan is DEAD like Pauline Kael and Michael Jackson but not Adam Levine.

    I know … it isn’t fair.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  246. “Why didnt the great communicator, communicate the “need” to guard our border”

    EPWJ – Why not ask him since you appear to be channeling his thoughts in this thread.

    Me, I am interested instead in the positions of potential nominee Rick Perry, as I though I had previously made clear.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  247. EPWJ – You seem to suffer under an illusion that one cannot be a conservative without agreeing 100% with everything Reagan did.

    You also, as is typical with your comments distort positions held by others.

    From Reagan’s 10/16/86 Diary:

    “Al Simpson came by to see if he had my support. After 5 yrs. of trying (during which I’ve been on his side) the House finally passed his immigration bill. They have one or two amendments we could do without but even if the Sen. In conf. cannot get them out, I’ll sign. It’s high time we regained control of our borders and this bill will do this.”

    “Commenting on last year’s version of the McCain-Kennedy “comprehensive” immigration package, Meese wrote:

    In the mid-80’s, many members of Congress — pushed by the Democratic majority in the House and the Select Commission on Immigration and Refugee Policy — advocated amnesty for long-settled illegal immigrants. President Reagan considered it reasonable to adjust the status of what was then a relatively small population, and I supported his decision.

    In exchange for allowing aliens to stay, he decided, border security and enforcement of immigration laws would be greatly strengthened — in particular, through sanctions against employers who hired illegal immigrants. If jobs were the attraction for illegal immigrants, then cutting off that option was crucial.

    Beyond this, most illegal immigrants who could establish that they had resided in America continuously for five years would be granted temporary resident status, which could be upgraded to permanent residency after 18 months and, after another five years, to citizenship.

    Note that this path to citizenship was not automatic. Indeed, the legislation stipulated several conditions: immigrants had to pay application fees, learn to speak English, understand American civics, pass a medical exam and register for military selective service. Those with convictions for a felony or three misdemeanors were ineligible. Sound familiar? These are pretty much the same provisions included in the new Senate proposal and cited by its supporters as proof that they have eschewed amnesty in favor of earned citizenship.

    The difference is that President Reagan called this what it was: amnesty. Indeed, look up the term “amnesty” in Black’s Law Dictionary, and you’ll find it says, “the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act provided amnesty for undocumented aliens already in the country.”

    Like the amnesty bill of 1986, the current Senate proposal would place those who have resided illegally in the United States on a path to citizenship, provided they meet a similar set of conditions and pay a fine and back taxes. The illegal immigrant does not go to the back of the line but gets immediate legalized status, while law-abiding applicants wait in their home countries for years to even get here. And that’s the line that counts. In the end, slight differences in process do not change the overriding fact that the 1986 law and today’s bill are both amnesties.

    Twenty-one years later, Washington debates another immigration bill. Meese’s colleague Brian Darling, the Heritage Foundation’s director of Senate relations, warns: “This compromise is much more harmful for America than the ’86 amnesty. The Z-Visa and pathway to citizenship contain minimal fees and fines that don’t change the fact that this is a 1986 style Amnesty. The triggers new deportable offenses and border security are window dressing for the massive Amnesty Z visas. This is the 1986 Amnesty all over again on a massive scale.”

    What would Reagan do? For a start, he’d probably look to history, and avoid making the same miscalculation twice.”

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/221032/what-would-reagan-do/kathryn-jean-lopez

    As I asked last night, is there any subject about which you would be unwilling to lie?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  248. Can anyone explain to me why ronald Reagan with 8 years as governor, 16 years as a Presidential Candidate and as President did nothing, never onced addressed illegal immigration until the Democrats made it an issue since republicans were carrying the hispanic vote in california

    Can anyone explain why ronald Reagan was pro amnesty?

    Ficticious articles by others aside

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  249. I mean does anyone have anything factual

    Not articles written by fawning fans make believing what ronald would have done except he had 3 decades to be on record on the issue?

    Ronald Reagans one act was to sign in a sweeping amnesty bill?

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  250. He will lie about the Palins and say Todd Palin had a one night stand with Jennifer Grey.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  251. Please do the world a favor and get your head out of Perry’s ass.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  252. Oh good Allah. Seek help.

    JD (352bcf)

  253. EricPWJohnson suffers from headupperrysassitis.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  254. Todd had a one-night stand with Jennifer Grey?
    Way to go!
    Did they dance on his snowmobile?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (b23ca8)

  255. Can anyone explain why Perry Reagan supported amnesty both as governor of California and as a Presidential candidate in 68, 72, 76, 80, and 84?

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  256. he lost a bet with desi arnaz is what I heard

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  257. He’ll pass out soon I think.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  258. Mr. Feets – I thought it was Charo

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  259. Leftys who oppose gay marriage shaddup.

    Eric when will you stop jerking off to your Perry poster.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  260. mmmm these tortillas are fabulous! homemade?

    yup. Nothin but the best for you baby.

    You’re too good to me.

    These homemade tortillas represent my love for you!

    I am so thankful for the immigrant peoples who come here and bring us the tasty homemade tortillas with which we celebrate our love so beautifully.

    Me too baby can you pass the cilantros?

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  261. 😯 Was that you and Rick Perry passing those tortillas?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  262. Did Ronald Reagan share Rick Perry’s unhealthy creepy obsession with the sex lives of teenage girls?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  263. He admitted he was wrong dude.

    Did Ronald Reagan share the lefts opinion that if your a rape victim you get to take it out on your unborn child?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  264. “coochie-coochie!” – Perry/Charo 2012

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  265. Reagan a saint but
    not running for president
    in two thousand twelve

    elissa (865f7b)

  266. JOE vs. JOSE

    You have two families: “Joe Legal” and “Jose Illegal”. Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .

    Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

    Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash “under the table”.

    Ready? Now pay attention….

    Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

    Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.0 0 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

    Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.

    Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics and emergency hospitals at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

    Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

    Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps, WIC and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

    Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has 9,631 .00.

    Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal Rent Subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

    Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for car insurance. Some of that is uninsured motorist insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

    Jose Illegal says, “We don’t need no stinkin’ insurance!” and still has $31,200.00.

    Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc..

    Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month..

    Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

    Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

    Joe Legal’s and Jose Illegal’s children both attend the same elementary school. Joe Legal pays for his children’s lunches, while Jose Illegal’s children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal’s children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal’s children go home.

    Now, when they reach college age, Joe Legal’s kids may not get into a State School and may not qualify for scholarships, grants or other tuition help, even though Joe has been paying for State Schools through his taxes, while Jose Illegal’s kids “go to the head of the class” because they are a minority.

    Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

    Do you get it, now?

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  267. immigrant peoples
    also bring non tasty foods
    haggis and head cheese

    elissa (865f7b)

  268. It’s interesting how easy it is for pundits to criticize Texans’ decisions. We elect responsible Republicans so we must not be that stupid.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  269. The lesson is to know what we’re getting, that’s why
    the protestations about W not being an immigration hawk or budget cutter, rang a little hollow, he never promised he would be any of those.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  270. Ian

    As Kevin M, so brilliantly noted that candidates further away from the border seemed to be braver in their immigration stances.

    Of the candidates up there on the podiums – how many made these tough stands while they held office or were running for reelection?

    Its easy to say in a primary, real tough to say in the general election

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  271. You betcha!-Happyfeet/Palin 2012.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  272. Honestly if the states want to keep Abortion legal fine then but I still think it is evil.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  273. DRJ – Can you explain why Ronald Reagan’s position’s on immigration are relevant to this thread?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  274. Times change, thirty years ago, it was considered smart policy to support Sunni islamic radicals, we’ve come around to the notion that’s not a good idea, except in Libya apparently.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  275. “I like Rick Perry for to be the nominee and if you don’t like it you can suck it,” happyfeet said politely.

    “Oh my goodness,” said piglet, “Rick Perry from Texas?”

    “Yup.”

    “That sounds like a most salutary candidate!” said owl.

    Then we all went to see Straw Dogs.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  276. Well it can’t be worse than the remake of Wicker Man, with Nick Cage,

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  277. Why do leftys preach about clean Water but they don’t practice what they preach?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  278. The DOJ are cozying up to the illegal immigrant lobby and trying to prevent hate crimes against mexicans[IOW don’t pester the illegals].

    DohBiden (d54602)

  279. I have no idea who will be nominated to the GOP ticket.

    I do know this, though, if a GOP candidate is elected, he or she would have to work 24/7 for four years with the intention of harm to do the amount of damage the current President has done in two and a half years without trying.

    Ag80 (9a213d)

  280. the baby monkey
    baby monkey riding on
    pig baby monkey

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_sfnQDr1-o

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  281. What race is Illegal Immigration libs?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  282. Do you get it, now?

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 9/17/2011 @ 4:43 pm

    No, I don’t.

    Explain again how Jose wasn’t paying sales and property taxes, and how he’s eligible for all this welfare without an SSN.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  283. Dustin, we should have learned the lesson, 10 years ago, when we found out the hijackers. got their drivers licenses, from ‘information brokers’ in the Va area, and the 9/11 commission, also made closing
    the borders a priority.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  284. Ian

    So anglo’s in Virginia – not hispanics in Texas – aided the terrorists?

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  285. Explain again how Jose wasn’t paying sales and property taxes, and how he’s eligible for all this welfare without an SSN.

    sales taxes?… maybe.
    property taxes?… what percentage own homes or property?
    Social Security number? easily available.

    Anything else in that long list, Dustin?

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  286. GOP pop quiz: With whom would you rather roll your dice — a Harvard lawyer who wants government to bankroll jobs through higher taxes? Or a Texas A&M grad/Air Force pilot who has successfully run one of the largest states in the country?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/smart-money-betting-on-stupid-politicians/2011/09/16/gIQAw1tWYK_story.html

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  287. immigrant peoples
    also bring non tasty foods
    haggis and head cheese

    scotsmen don’t favor
    cabeza lengua tacos
    they eat from goat’s ass

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  288. From the 9/11 Commission report

    Three Salvadoran immigrants living in Virginia—two illegally and one as a lawful permanent resident—were found guilty of helping four 9/11 operatives use fraudulent documentation to obtain Virginia identification cards. Two were convicted of helping Ahmed al Ghamdi and Abdul Aziz al Omari obtain fraudulent residency certificates on August 2, 2001. Another was convicted of providing false residency information on behalf of Hanjour and Mihdhar after being solicited by the two hijackers at a 7-Eleven in Falls Church, Virginia. For a fee, the Salvadoran falsely certified his old Virginia address as the residence of the hijackers. These residency certificates were then used to support their applications for Virginia identification cards issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles on August 1 and 2, 2001, respectively. The Salvadoran’s address was also recycled by Moqed and Salem al Hazmi to use on their Virginia identification cards issued on August 2, 2001. Jarrah followed suit on August 29, using a fictitious residency address and a certification of that address by Hanjour, who again used the address provided to him on August 1, 2001, to acquire his Virginia identification card. One of the men charged in these cases recognized four of these hijackers as having been together at the Arlington, Virginia, DMV on August 2, 2001. In all, the five hijackers based their Virginia identification cards on the residency information of one bribed Salvadoran

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  289. EPWJ – Smearing Ronald Reagan is a surefire recipe to convince voters to support Mr. Governor Perry. Advise his campaign to go for it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  290. Daley

    Can anyone you explain Perry’s Reagan’s enforcement of the border prior to the 86 bill pushed by democrats when the republicans carried the hispanic vote for the first time in California in 84?

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  291. haggis is seasoned lard stuffed into a sheep’s colon. would Braveheart have been award-winning movie if every other scene Mel and the boys were seen eating fat out of sheep’s azzhole?

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  292. Who’s up for brunch, colonel’s buyin’!?!?

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  293. Why do you bring Reagan into this?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  294. 270.Did Ronald Reagan share Rick Perry’s unhealthy creepy obsession with the sex lives of teenage girls?

    Now where do you go to convince someone who would type that Perry is a pedophile in response to facts ruining the his moving of a goalpost?

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  295. EPWJ – Rick Perry = John McCain on illegal immigration. How did that work out? Reagan is nowhere to be seen on the ballot.

    I also prefer this link about the HPV debacle over Right Wing Sparkle’s Obama-style anecdote.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  296. Doh

    I really cant answer that – its too obvious

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  297. Daley,

    I wrote that and posted links to it days before my friend Kat wrote it at the Chron

    She’s not the only one Perry did that with, but for privacy sake he wont divulge it – and never will.

    I’ve been defending Perry since 2003, I have no regrets not ever once

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  298. Perry = Reagan

    Reagan = Lincoln

    Daley = pedophile accuser, slanderer, libeler, goal post mover

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  299. “86 bill pushed by democrats when the republicans carried the hispanic vote for the first time in California in 84?”

    EPWJ – Please confirm you concern is pandering not policy.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  300. Daley,

    and I’m sorry you had to go the route that you did, slandering a great man like that. I’ts bot the Daley I knew

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  301. Daley

    As you have no rebuttal other than the standard liberal democrat tactic of not addressing the facts but attacking the motives of the source – I will not respond to you anymore – I wouldn’t want you to falsely accuse me of being a pedophile because I support Perry

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  302. “I wrote that and posted links to it days before my friend Kat wrote it at the Chron”

    ?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  303. “Daley = pedophile accuser, slanderer, libeler, goal post mover”

    No, just making an EPWJ style comment.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  304. “As you have no rebuttal other than the standard liberal democrat tactic of not addressing the facts but attacking the motives of the source”

    Rebuttal of what?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  305. Jimmy ”Kim Jong Il” Carters caring for the poor is surely convenient…………did he care for the poor in Zimbabwe and North Korea?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  306. “Perry = Reagan”

    EPWJ – According to your version of history we need to be worried about Perry socking us with a $14 trillion tax increase if he is elected president.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  307. And we need to worry that he will align with the contras in nicaragua.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  308. Daley, the fellow is edging into DCSCA territory.

    Simon Jester (f5a576)

  309. according to EPWJ logic.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  310. “Who’s up for brunch, colonel’s buyin’!?!?”

    Colonel – EPWJ too busy with Jergens for brunch.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  311. Seeing the Sandinistas are back in power, that’s not such a bad idea

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  312. __________________________________________

    Joe Legal’s and Jose Illegal’s children both attend the same elementary school. Comment by ColonelHaiku — 9/17/2011 @ 4:43 pm

    And beyond your interesting side-by-side comparison, this society also has the following warm and fuzzy future staring at it in the face…

    city-journal.org, October 2008:

    The Latino Education Crisis: The Consequences of Failed Social Policies, by Patricia Gandara and Frances Contreras, offers an unflinching portrait of Hispanics’ educational problems and reaches a scary conclusion about those problems’ costs. The book’s analysis is all the more surprising given that its authors are liberals committed to bilingual education, affirmative action, and the usual slate of left-wing social programs.

    Hispanics are underachieving academically at an alarming rate, the authors report. Though second- and third-generation Hispanics make some progress over their first-generation parents, that progress starts from an extremely low base and stalls out at high school completion. High school drop-out rates — around 50 percent — remain steady across generations. Latinos’ grades and test scores are at the bottom of the bell curve. The very low share of college degrees earned by Latinos has not changed for more than two decades. Currently only one in ten Latinos has a college degree.

    BTW, Perry and Romney, along with other Republicans like George Bush Sr & Jr, and Ronald Reagan, tend to be squishes when it comes to this controversy. The reason?

    A perfect illustration is to look at the case of Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan. A member of the military — no less — within the confines and context of the Army — no less — not only wasn’t singled out by his colleagues for his blatant anti-US fanaticism — no less — he was pretty much tolerated by the military until the Fort Hood massacre.

    We live in an age of insanity, perfectly symbolized by Jeremiah Wright’s pal (former or otherwise) occupying the Oval Office. Moreover, current polls indicating that the guy still gets, in theoretical match-ups on the ballot in 2012, way too many hugs and kisses from a good portion of the electorate.

    Mark (411533)

  313. haggis does not sound very tasty but what I’ve learned is if something sounds gross just try a little bit in a taco

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  314. cabeza is very very tasty btw but lengua has a texture problem plus also you can see the tongue bumps, which is sort of off-putting

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  315. National Soros Radio is lurving them some tardasil kerfuffle

    On Friday night, Bachmann took the stage of The Tonight Show, a place that politicians, movie stars and other celebrities often go when they want to give their image a boost. Host Jay Leno asked Bachmann about her criticism last week of front-runner Perry for using an executive order to require Texas girls to get a vaccine that protects against cervical cancer.

    “It’s HPV, and the concern is that there’s potentially side effects that can come with something like that,” Bachmann said.

    Bachmann had scored points when she tore into Perry at the CNN debate on Monday. But the next morning, she managed to turn that win into a controversy when she told the Today Show of her encounter with a tearful woman who said her daughter had taken the vaccine and “she suffered from mental retardation thereafter.”

    The medical community went wild because there is no evidence supporting such a disastrous side effect. Bachmann has spent days trying to explain her comment, but misstatements of fact have almost become a Bachmann trademark. The non-partisan organization PolitiFact has rated a higher percentage of her statements false than those of any major presidential contender.

    [note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  316. Epwj went full-monty krazy this morning.

    JD (7c90f3)

  317. The world is overpopulated with Perry and his sexy clones we must stop this before we is doomed.

    Go ahead and quote it if you like Perry fans.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  318. “Painted himself half blue, and sat in a bowl of warm creeble, squawking eek, eek”

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  319. daleyrocks,

    I understand why people fear that Perry is like McCain and Reagan on immigration, but to me the issue isn’t amnesty but border security. We will always have politicians and Americans who want to “help” illegal immigrants by giving them amnesty, so pursuing a zero tolerance policy on amnesty-type actions is doomed to failure. Even if it only happens once every 20-30 years, that’s enough to make illegal immigration seem like a good path. Just the possibility of amnesty is enough for many immigrants.

    Similarly, trying to take away all incentives to come to America will never work, in part because federal law requires that we provide education and emergency health care. Those benefits alone will always be huge incentives to come to America. Finally, America is a beacon to illegal immigrants because it is a land of freedom and prosperity — unless Obama is re-elected (unlike Ag80, I think Obama is destroying our way of life on purpose).

    Thus, to me, the key is border security. I don’t know everything Perry would do as President but I believe he’s sincere about wanting to secure the border. Today’s politicians talk about fences and border security but as long as the federal government won’t put troops on the border, the most effective way to help border states is by helping border sheriffs. Perry has done this, including monetary resources and effective technology like helicopters, SWAT-type Texas Ranger teams, and high-powered weaponry. As President, I think Perry would also put troops on the border, something liberals would undoubtedly try to stop by invoking the Posse Comitatus Act. It would be nice if Congress could create an exception similar to the Coast Guard exception.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  320. DRJ

    Perry sent money to the Border Sheriffs to hire extra help 110 million in 2005, 325 million in 2006,7 and I think similar funding continues today

    Also many border land owners refused access to law enforcement to patrol their land or to launch boats.

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  321. DRJ

    Also a fence without security is just a dodge – those that want a fence know it will be tunneled under in a matter of days

    The gradual rebuilding of the economy, the teaching of our values of civic duty “civics” in the classroom and our freedom from burdensome entitlements and regulation will solve more problems than we can imagine

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  322. Ooposition to the Gay lifestyle is homophobic except if your bashing Catholic Priests.

    Opposition to illegals is racist unless your mexico.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  323. most illegals are good catholics just like most priests

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  324. :roll: that makes it good then right.

    The left likes to accuse people of being racist if they mourn the death of white people at the hands of black people.

    They also like to say we need to get over the death.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  325. stop trying to lure me into your intricate games of logic

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  326. Hybrid Cars add more pollution to the earth.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  327. Obama was no friend of Israel and never will be even if Israel gives them intelligence on the next terrorist attack which they will reject because Israel lacks any credibility in their eyes.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  328. The medical community went wild because there is no evidence supporting such a disastrous side effect. Bachmann has spent days trying to explain her comment, but misstatements of fact have almost become a Bachmann trademark. The non-partisan organization PolitiFact has rated a higher percentage of her statements false than those of any major presidential contender.

    Had she forcefully pointed out that she did not make the claim, but that a woman *told* her that was what happened to her daughter, and then followed it with something like, Let’s see what the professionals in the medical community say, she would have been fine. She would have spoken the truth that the claim was told her by a parent and she would have deferred to the professionals. It would have taken something anecdotal and opened discussion on the serious – if any – impact of Gardasil. Instead, her stubborn nature won over common sense.

    You cannot ‘stubborn’ your way out of a misstep. And this is not the first time. She needed to own it and move on. Instead, the more she talks about it, the more opportunity she gives the other side (and fellow GOP candidates) to deservedly mock her.

    And ultimately, what a ridiculous issue of a hill to choose to die on. This, to me, showed a complete lack of savvy and discernment on her part.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  329. “I understand why people fear that Perry is like McCain and Reagan on immigration, but to me the issue isn’t amnesty but border security”

    DRJ – I have no idea what Perry’s policy is on illegal immigrants already residing in this country. I ask a question about about it and get EPWJ’s unexplained looniness about Ronald Reagan, who is as far as I am aware is not running in this election, dealt with the issue in a much different time and climate and has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

    If Rick Perry is supposed to be the reincarnation of Ronald Reagan on immigration, I hope some commenter with credibility rather than EPWJ, would come out and describe his positions. Perry’s positions on border security have been made public. His willingness to provide access to college education to people who are illegally in this country and cannot legally work in this country lead me to the logical conclusion that he is pro-amnesty, whatever words you want to use his actual position.

    I have absolutely zero, nada, zilch, interest in comparing Perry to Ronald Reagan.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  330. plus Ronald Reagan is dead like Joseph Stalin and Mel Torme but not Santa Claus

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  331. EPWJ – Here for your apparent required education is Ronald Reagan’s signing statement from Simpson-Mazzoli.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  332. Daley – why do you hate Reagan?

    JD (318f81)

  333. :roll: Why do you make such asinine comparisons?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  334. “Daley – why do you hate Reagan?”

    JD – Because according to EPWJ he raised taxes on us by $14 trillion in one swell foop!!!!11ty!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  335. _____________________________________________

    The gradual rebuilding of the economy, the teaching of our values of civic duty “civics” in the classroom and our freedom from burdensome entitlements and regulation will solve more problems than we can imagine

    Your assumptions aren’t without merit, but I also think that, when it comes to the quirks of illegal immigration and the power of demographics, they’re saddled with a bit of naivete or idealism. Or I’d say your statement reminds me of the words printed in a government publication, full of well-meaning intentions and oh-so noble—with only the later portion (“burdensome entitlements and regulation”) likely being omitted if the sponsoring bureaucracy were ruled by liberals/Democrats.

    The only problem is I don’t know how reliable such jargon is when, as for example, some of those official, supposedly authoritative government channels (btw, the stats below closely align with those from a US agency, referring to the CIA) gather and release statistics that are as surprising — and absurd? — as these…


    indexmundi.com:

    Mexico’s Unemployment Rate (over 32 years)

    1980…1.2
    1981…0.9
    1982…4.2
    1983…6.1
    1984…5.6
    1985…4.4
    1986…4.3
    1987…3.883
    1988…3.542
    1989…2.925
    1990…2.742
    1991…2.692
    1992…2.83
    1993…3.43
    1994…3.7
    1995…6.23
    1996…5.45
    1997…3.73
    1998…3.16
    1999…2.5
    2000…2.2
    2001…2.768
    2002…2.978
    2003…3.404
    2004…3.919
    2005…3.593
    2006…3.593
    2007…3.716
    2008…3.977
    2009…5.459
    2010…5.373

    Source: International Monetary Fund

    Mark (411533)

  336. daleyrocks,

    Rick Perry claims he doesn’t support amnesty. Like you, some pundits are skeptical, but as the second link says:

    The flip side is that neither Perry nor Romney seem to have strong views on immigration, their positions apparently driven by a desire to curry favor with big campaign contributors or the Mexican government. This is in contrast to Bush, who actually believed all his immigration baloney, and that contrast is a good thing, because a craven pol with his finger in the wind is much easier to sway with political pressure than a true-believer.

    I think he’s right and I’m fine with that. You can’t win elected office in Texas without having a nuanced policy on immigration, plus I think it’s smarter in the long run to be patient while God-fearing, family-loving, military-supporting Hispanics realize they are natural conservatives. It may already be happening in Texas:

    To pursue further the question of philosophical orientation, a poll more than a year ago asserted that 54 percent of Texas Hispanics call themselves conservative, as against 18 percent who self-identify as liberal or progressive. Maybe so, to judge from how things went at the polls in Texas last November. Four Hispanic Republicans won state house seats in Hispanic territory. Three of the Democratic losers were likewise Hispanic. With the election over, along came Rep. Aaron Peña, a Democrat, to cross over to the Republican side due to what he identified as the overlap of his own views with those of the GOP.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  337. He doesn’t support amnesty?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  338. From those UE stats, it is interesting to note the Mexican UE #’s for ’80-’81 – the depth of the Stagflation Recession:
    How can Mexico have an unemployment rate less than 1/10th of the U.S. during that period?
    Was all of Mexico’s unemployed looking for work in Central America?
    And, the 2010 rate is one-half of the U.S. rate?
    …snark…it’s only that high because of all of the unemployed Mexicans who moved back home from El Norte where they couldn’t find any work...snark off…

    There are Lies, Damn Lies, and then there are Statistics!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (393ab8)

  339. Gotta love congress telling the FBI to infiltrate anti-abortion groups back in 1994.

    But yet the FBI cant infiltrate jihadist orginizations.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  340. DRJ – I agree with your comments concerning border security. If you read the comments I posted from Edwin Meese about Reagan’s thoughts and Reagan’s signing statement you will see that controlling America’s borders and sovereignty was foremost in his mind and that EPWJ is as usual full of crap.

    The comprehensive immigration reform solution that went down in flames in Congress most recently was due to citizen revolt over politicians not paying attention to their pleas to secure the border first, however that is to be done.

    I agree that that there is evidence a lot of immigrant favor strong border control and an emphasis on legal immigration. Romney has the same issues as Perry I believe on pandering. Illegal immigration was not an invisible issue in Massachusetts. They will both need to provide clarity as the campaign moves along.

    Meanwhile, I am happy to make EPWJ style comments about Perry in retaliation for his smears about people like Palin and Romney and I hope you will see them as such since they are so obvious. He gets upset when forced to take his own medicine.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  341. “How can Mexico have an unemployment rate less than 1/10th of the U.S. during that period?”

    AD – Easy. Their government statisticians are better than our government statisticians.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  342. I’d rather people focus on smearing Sarah Palin instead of Mr. Governor Perry.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  343. daleyrocks,

    I like to discuss things with you and, also like you, I saw this as an opportunity to delve deeper into an important topic. But we can’t be faithful Patterico commenters without reading — and appreciating — good snark!

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  344. DRJ – I am not snarking at you. Heaven forbid!

    I believe I agree with what you are saying as usual.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  345. I didn’t take it as snarking at me, daley. Sometimes we’re a sly, wry, or snarky group of commenters. It’s part of our charm.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  346. Opposition to abortion is pathological hatred of women?

    So I guess Rick Perry Hates women?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  347. CRAPPYFEET YOU HORSES ANUS.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  348. “I’d rather people focus on smearing Sarah Palin instead of Mr. Governor Perry.”

    Mr. Feets – Monster trucks vs. snow mobiles. You decide.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  349. So when Urkel turns up in a meat locker 1st week of September, 2012, how will Repugnants feel about their choice of Perry?

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  350. Your a tard unless you were sarcastic.

    How can someone say opposition to abortion is pathological hatred of women when women oppose abortion?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  351. DRJ – As Mr. Feets would say, *hugs*.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  352. Did you know Crappyfeet likes when people spank him.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  353. I really enjoyed reading Daley’s and DRJ’s thoughts on this immigration aspect.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  354. Just read Morrissey’s take on the Steve Chapman OpEd in the ChiTrib calling for President Millstone to announce his coming retirement on 20 Jan 13, and am taken by this:

    Barack “Hoover” Obama!

    Works for me.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (393ab8)

  355. daleyrocks,

    Your link to Reagan’s signing statement was helpful. It also reminds me of the dangers of bipartisan efforts.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  356. Bepartisanship: When both major parties lose sight of their principles, and endorse mush.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (393ab8)

  357. _____________________________________________

    Compare and contrast, between the 1950s and the 2000s.

    We’ve gone from one extreme to another.

    We’ve gone from a period when people who were even fully legal citizens in the US were unfairly rounded up along with illegals (a problem not mentioned in the article below), to a period when an extremist with virulent anti-US sentiments can remain happy and content in the setting of the US military—but only until his compulsions finally exploded.

    csmonitor.com, July 2006: Fifty-three years ago, when newly elected Dwight Eisenhower moved into the White House, America’s southern frontier was as porous as a spaghetti sieve. As many as 3 million illegal migrants had walked and waded northward over a period of several years for jobs in California, Arizona, Texas, and points beyond.

    President Eisenhower cut off this illegal traffic. He did it quickly and decisively with only 1,075 United States Border Patrol agents – less than one-tenth of today’s force. The operation is still highly praised among veterans of the Border Patrol.

    [O]n June 17, 1954, what was called “Operation Wetback” began. Because political resistance was lower in California and Arizona, the roundup of aliens began there. Some 750 agents swept northward through agricultural areas with a goal of 1,000 apprehensions a day. By the end of July, over 50,000 aliens were caught in the two states. Another 488,000, fearing arrest, had fled the country.

    By mid-July, the crackdown extended northward into Utah, Nevada, and Idaho, and eastward to Texas. By September, 80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas, and an estimated 500,000 to 700,000 illegals had left the Lone Star State voluntarily.

    Unlike today, Mexicans caught in the roundup were not simply released at the border, where they could easily reenter the US. To discourage their return, [General Joseph] Swing [appointed by Eisenhower to head the INS] arranged for buses and trains to take many aliens deep within Mexico before being set free. Tens of thousands more were put aboard two hired ships, the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried the aliens from Port Isabel, Texas, to Vera Cruz, Mexico, more than 500 miles south.

    Time.com: Nidal Malik Hasan struck some of his classmates as a “ticking time bomb” whose strange personality telegraphed trouble long before he allegedly killed 13 people at Fort Hood.

    [S]tudents [enrolled in the Pentagon’s medical school], speaking privately because they have been ordered not to speak publicly, say they’re angry that what they view as political correctness led their superiors to ignore the warning signs witnessed by students and faculty at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md.

    Two of them expressed a willingness to testify about Hasan’s conduct in the 2007-08 school year but also expressed concern that the military’s political sensitivities could compromise any Pentagon investigation.

    “We asked him pointedly, ‘Nidal, do you consider Shari’a law to transcend the Constitution of the United States?’ And he said, ‘Yes,’ “a classmate told TIME on Monday.

    “We asked him if homicidal bombers were rewarded for their acts with 72 virgins in heaven and he responded, ‘I’ve done the research — yes.’ Those are comments he made in front of the class.”

    But such statements apparently didn’t trigger an inquiry. “I was astounded and went to multiple faculty and asked why he was even in the Army,” the officer said. “Political correctness squelched any opportunity to confront him.”

    ^ It’s truly astounding that we’ve gone from an era when even a government-sponsored initiative was so non-politically correct as to include “wetback” in its title, to a moment when a rabid Islamicist spouting anti-US rhetoric got a million free passes within the setting of the US military.

    Or, for that matter, a time when an honorable citizen who served nobly in WWII was elected to occupy the Oval Office, to today’s era, when a guy who embraced “goddamn America!” verbiage was chosen as his successor decades later.

    Insanity reigns.

    Mark (411533)

  358. Get ready for the left to accuse Rick Perry of having an intense hatred of women.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  359. Bepartisanship: When both major parties lose sight of their principles, and endorse mush.

    This reminds me of Rush emphatically pointing out that we do not want the GOP to work in a bipartisanship manner – we want the GOP to beat the opposing side, not compromise and yield just to be able to point out, Look at us working in a bipartisan manner.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  360. Mr. Feets – If you squeeze an orange what comes out is orange juice because of what is inside.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  361. Comment by Mark — 9/18/2011 @ 12:32 pm

    You have reported to AttackWatch!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (393ab8)

  362. …have been reported…

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (393ab8)

  363. just to be able to point out, Look at us working in a bipartisan manner.

    So much of what passes for accomplishment in the political theatre is just that, theatre.

    Oh, look how wonderful we all are!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (393ab8)

  364. Being accused of not working in a bipartisanship manner is almost right up there with being accused of racism – neither requires evidence and both accusations will stick no matter what. It’s what the left is serving for dinner.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  365. Explain again how Jose wasn’t paying sales and property taxes, and how he’s eligible for all this welfare without an SSN.

    sales taxes?… maybe.
    property taxes?… what percentage own homes or property?
    Social Security number? easily available.

    Anything else in that long list, Dustin?

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  366. and fyi, Dustin… colonel’s wife is an American of Mexican heritage and she thinks that Perry panders on this issue.

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  367. Anything else in that long list, Dustin?

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 9/18/2011 @ 12:50 pm

    I think you know that you’re dead wrong just on the two points you attempted to answer on. Illegals, even renters, pay property tax via rent, and they are also paying sales tax.

    That’s how Texas funds schools.

    colonel’s wife is an American of Mexican heritage and she thinks that Perry panders on this issue.

    That’s nice.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  368. Dustin’s wife is not a Mexican, but I don’t think that means she lacks some kind of magical authority to decide about immigration issues. In Texas most of us don’t care about nationality.

    She does, however, own guns, doesn’t think people should be forced to buy health insurance if they don’t want to, and even has never changed her mind on the abortion issue for political expedience.

    That’s the problem with assuming that Perry is a panderer. He plainly isn’t, though. Anyone watching him stick to his guns in the last two debates knows he is not a flop flopper or a panderer. He might not be correct on immigration. Personally, that’s my opinion, but claiming he’s insincere is just an attempt to drag him down to his nearest competitor’s level.

    That’s not an excuse to shut off the very honest and valid criticisms of Perry we hear, but I’m still excited about voting for him. He’s not perfect, but I don’t want a weak leader who panders.

    I’m heartened that Haiku is now on my side of this issue. It’s time to hold it against politicians who are caught pandering or otherwise being insincere. We need leadership. Instead of just promises folks will govern in a way they never have, let’s get folks who actually walked the walk, especially on spending and taxes.

    Haiku is a damn smart and capable Romney supporter, and I’m glad to hear his best effort why one might prefer Romney to Perry. No disrespect or sarcasm intended, but it does help to know this is the best argument against Perry.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  369. That sounds kinda hostile, but I don’t mean it that way. I really am glad to hear the worst one can deal to Perry. For one thing, I know better than to expect Perry to be something he isn’t, so I won’t be heart broken like Obama shills were.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  370. I have friends who have friends who are Americans of Mexican heritage!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  371. I think we may have missed an opportunity by not having TSA guards give out the Gardasil vaccine.

    elissa (b74ea9)

  372. Perry meets the minimum requirements for the office plus he understands about the spendings. I don’t really care about immigrations or gardasils.

    We should just elect him already my 401k ain’t getting any fresher.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  373. nahhh… I meant to say fwiw, not fyi. Illegal immigration/in-state tuition isn’t the only thing about Perry that concerns me. In fact… I really don’t know what the concerns will be, as I don’t have any idea what the man stands for, or what he will (hopefully, at some point) propose to cure what ails the USA. He does have to do that at some point… doesn’t he? It should be sooner than later, as that is what a true leader would do… be out front of the pack. It would be a shame to nominate anyone without fully vetting what he or she stands for, or will be proposing.

    Again… should be sooner than later.

    BTW… property owners have skin in the game, renters don’t.

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  374. In Texas most of us don’t care about nationality.

    That seems to be the way it works in much of the country… usually in the blue states that also boast of sanctuary cities.

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  375. Our Sanctuary Cities are better than your sanctuary cities!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (393ab8)

  376. I’ll take that bet!

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  377. AD – I resemble that! I live in a sanctuary city.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  378. ==We should just elect him already my 401k ain’t getting any fresher==

    Oh are you still playing the market Mr. Feets? If you have room in your apartment you may wish to invest, instead, in tasty canned goods. Many analysts feel the ROI is potentially better than with stocks. Also, items in one’s pantry are theoretically harder for the government to confiscate than the proceeds of one’s 401K plans.

    elissa (b74ea9)

  379. “Oh are you still playing the market Mr. Feets? If you have room in your apartment you may wish to invest, instead, in tasty canned goods.”

    elissa – Fall soup sale rolled around this week again. Stocked up on the beans wif the bacons!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  380. I have a can of fava beans in brine I got from my armenian friends plus I have a jar of peabnut bubber!

    I should get some sauerkraut though in case of sausages.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  381. tasty canned goods…
    I’ll stick with Progresso!
    And tins of ammo.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (393ab8)

  382. Mr. Feets – There are a lot of sausages where elissa and I live.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  383. Why not a Sanctuary Cities Soccer League?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (393ab8)

  384. Daleyrocks hearts the snausages.

    JD (17012e)

  385. I trade you tacos for the sausages Mr. daley

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  386. Why not a Sanctuary Cities Soccer League?

    How ’bout a Sanctuary Cities Fantasy Felon League? You could rack up points by picking the illegal immigrant felons who have committed heinous crimes and guessing how lightly their wrists will be slapped by our legal system!

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  387. “Daleyrocks hearts the snausages.”

    Come on over here Mr. JD and I’ll show you the Weiner the world awaited.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  388. My wurst is the best!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  389. Since Perry got in the race, Moore, Burka and Ratcliffe, along with Dallas Morning News political reporter Wayne Slater, have emerged as part of a cadre of go-to Perry sources. They are constantly on cable

    Now, these peoplr – well read their stuff – decide whether they are journolists

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  390. post #398… that put the capital “G” in GAY!, but post #399 was the redeemer.

    ColonelHaiku (601b0d)

  391. •Paul Burka’s list of best and worst state legislators is now out. Golly, what do you know? Every entry in the worst of list is a Republican? As the Church Lady is wont to say, “How Con-VEN-ient

    http://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=7317

    You might have noticed that I have not been overly kind in my assessments of Paul Burka’s political observations. He comes across as a world-weary, old school, middle-of-the-road liberal reporter who can’t come to grips with the changing political landscape, yearning for the days when the two wings of the Democratic Party controlled Texas politics,

    He doesn’t understand why the Tea Party won’t just go away and let him go back to a time when the people in power returned his phone calls.

    This is the guy that hacks are getting their talkig point from about Perry

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  392. Colonel, who needs Craig’s list when they’ve got Patterico’s!

    elissa (b74ea9)

  393. Milhouse – How many Jews were there in “Israel” before 1920?

    What matters is not how many were physically there, but how many belonged there, which was all of them. Your home doesn’t stop belonging to you just because you’re away. Jews who arrived there after whatever date you pick were not foreigners immigrating, they were natives returning home. The USA, on the other hand, was not created by native Americans returning home, but by immigrants. There is no native “nation”, unless you mean Indians; otherwise, America is made up of whatever people immigrate to it, and those who haven’t yet immigrated but want to are no different, and no less deserving, than those who’ve already done so.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  394. Rick Perry is far from perfect and who knows you might get your talking points about Palin from that hack.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  395. Moore is the worst of the worst, not surprisingly he
    was Olbermann’s go to person on Countdown, a shrieking nazgul,at the Puffington Host. previously the arch enemy of Karl Rove, He’s the counterpart of another Moore, up above the lower 48. Slater’s probably the best of the lot, and Burka falls somewhere in between,

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  396. The GOP convention starts August 27, 2012. It sounds like it could be a long year until then.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  397. ‘Till then?
    Hell, it’s been a long year just from Labor Day!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (393ab8)

  398. DRJ

    I dont know, Bachmann imploded, Paul seems to as well, I’ve been hearing that Romney’s settlement on his unpaid taxes in 2002 so he could run for governor (he worked in Boston but claimed he was a Utah resident) may get exposure.

    Then when in a large field someone is getting closer to 30% effectively cuts off fundraising for the also rans

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  399. oh my goodness that is way too late for a convention

    I need a nominee way before then

    it’s on my list of things to do really as soon as possible like an eye exam and running to vallarta to purchase tasty goya brand frozen food products

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  400. and we haven’t even started on the Buffett /Alternative-Alternative Minimum Tax.

    I wonder what The Sage of Omaha would say about an Excise Tax on Passenger-Hours on Corporate Jets? Say, $100/Passenger-Hour?

    Also, along those lines, someone this weekend dredged up a Robert Gibbs quote on the First Lady’s vacation to the Costa del Sol:
    A private person, and a private family, on a private vacation.
    Only Gibbs could say such BS with a straight face.
    I know of few, if any, private persons/families that take private vacations on AF-3!
    Now, there’s someone who should justifiably be charges a stiff Excise Tax for the use of a Corporate Jet.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (393ab8)

  401. You live in LA and you can’t get Goya product in the stores, there’s something wrong there.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  402. feets, you need to go here:
    http://goya.elsstore.com/

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (393ab8)

  403. Perry is the nominee. You have been told. And Breitbart will be indicted any time now. Go back to counting joooooooos and xians.

    JD (ac417f)

  404. oh vallarta is a supermercado chain here… it’s non-union so I’ve been going there a lot but once the piggy piggy union whores strike at ralph’s I’m gonna go stock up on tasty frozen cpk pizzas

    I will look online but I like going to the store cause they have happy people and festive musics and fake palm trees and the biggest selection of agua frescas in town except I’m on agua fresca restriction

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  405. So it’s like a Sedanos down here.

    ian cormac (ed5f69)

  406. Happy

    Fiesta’s a great market place

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  407. CrappyBeat is opposition to abortion sexist?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  408. maybe… I haven’t been to a Sedanos yet… or a Fiesta next up I’m a go to Jon’s International Marketplace

    I’m not sure what the concept is but there’s one really close to my new place

    Mr. Biden abortion is one of those things other people do like checking out the Celine Dion show when they’re in Vegas or wearing Axe Body Spray

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  409. Wow Jane Lynch playing the race card again.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  410. Do you like checking out Celine Deon or Nick Cannon?

    DohBiden (d54602)


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