Patterico's Pontifications

8/27/2011

Perry Bills Feds for Illegal Immigration

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 10:50 am

Good for him:

Texas Gov. Rick Perry has asked the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to reimburse the state $350 million to cover costs of imprisoning illegal immigrants.

In a letter to Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, the top-tier Republican presidential candidate blamed the federal government for not securing the border with Mexico, allowing illegal immigrants to cross over and use taxpayer-funded resources. He said resources for county jails are being depleted as a result.

From California’a Prop. 187 to Arizona’s more recent laws, the federal government is forever fighting state laws that regulate illegal immigration, arguing that controlling immigration is a purely federal responsibility.

So when the federal government fails to discharge that responsibility, why should the financial consequences of that failure fall on the border states?

I have documented on this blog how federal immigration failures strain the resources of border states in countless ways: burdening our jails, prisons, freeways, emergency rooms, schools, and other vital public resources.

It’s time to pay the piper.

Via Hot Air Headlines.

328 Responses to “Perry Bills Feds for Illegal Immigration”

  1. That is kind of hilarious. What a perfect way to clearly illustrate the fed’s failure to act.

    Book (c7b6c5)

  2. like bumble’s gonna mind expanding the federal government’s responsibilities and spending 350 million borrowed dollars

    these things get him a little excited actually

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  3. I really wonder how Janet Napolitano personally resolves this issue considering she herself billed the federal government for the very same thing when she was governor of Arizona…

    Dana (4eca6e)

  4. Way to go! Make those Feds pay the bill.

    Say, where does the Fed get their money from?

    D’oh!

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  5. That’ll leave a mark.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  6. Did not the Lightworker just pledge that the federal government would meet ALL of it’s debts & obligations?

    Icy Texan (a14dff)

  7. Perry goes up in my estimation. Look at the illegal alien murder this week in Massachussets and Obama’s good buddy Cadillac Deval’s utter indifference.

    Howie Carr with the awful details-

    http://bostonherald.com/news/columnists//view.bg?articleid=1360938

    Bugg (ea1809)

  8. If you think Rick Perry is strong on illegal immigration, please think again.

    Mark America says:
    “. . . You may have heard some of Perry’s more recent statements about conditions along the Texas border with Mexico, and you might be inclined to believe Mr. Perry thinks more should be done. He even tried to repair his credibility on the issue by being broadcast on a live feed from a base of operations near the border for an interview on Greta Van Susteren’s show. If you believe that stage-managed bit of theater, I’m inclined to let you know right now that he’s relatively no more conservative in real terms than George Bush, which is to say on the matter of his statist, globalist reflexes, he’s no conservative at all. I’d hate it if anybody else broke the news to you, because I believe bad news is best delivered by a friend. Check out the following video for where Rick Perry really stands on issues of the border:”

    http://markamerica.com/2011/08/27/some-of-you-tea-party-folk-think-perrys-the-answer/

    Please read the whole thing, and listen to Perry on the clip.

    John6_35to40 (d56668)

  9. you might be inclined to believe Mr. Perry thinks more should be done.

    John, he does think that.

    Criticize the guy on immigration, by all means, but make sure you’re accurate about it.

    Perry is hardly an open borders guy.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  10. This is a fine publicity stunt to put the spotlight on the Obama Administration.

    And don’t misunderstand me — the underlying problem is very real.

    But sending this “invoice” isn’t going to do anything more than produce publicity. It’s not like it’s going to get paid.

    Beldar (8e755e)

  11. Even if it is paid, it doesn’t solve the problem.

    But we all know that the federal government is practically at war with Texas right now. Offshore drilling, natural disasters, EPA, BATF, the list is pretty long at this point.

    Texas would actually be better off as its own country, using the taxes sent to the feds. That’s how bad it’s become.

    Not that I think we should secede, mind you. I think we should save the USA from these policies.

    I think Perry in particular has been in a position to see what the federal government has become, and how it’s ruining this country.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  12. If Napolitano’s bunch insist on claiming that border security is solely under their authority, then it should be soley at their expense.

    As if they would dream of agreeing with that argument.

    bobdog (166386)

  13. Gotta love the perrybots they are just like the palinbots.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  14. I wish Gov. Perry good luck in collecting that debt; CA is still waiting for the check to match the invoice Pete Wilson sent Bill Clinton, as I’m sure AZ is for Napolincompetano’s bill to the GWB Admin.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (3370e1)

  15. Perry critized SB1070 but you naive twits keep defending him.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  16. Was Perry’s criticism of SB1070 just “electioneering”?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (3370e1)

  17. “Perry is hardly an open borders guy.”

    I believe he supports ‘a pathway to citizenship’.

    In 1986 that was a reasonable position, when we had zero laws against employing illegals, zero laws saying you had to swear you were eligible to work in the country when employed, and zero experience with amnesties. From 1986 to 1991 we amnestied something in the neighborhood of 3 million people (equivalent to the population of San Diego or Orange County).

    Not surprisingly, Mexicans learned from that amnesty — learned that we were soft touches. They sought out their brothers, cousins, friends, paisano who now had a foot in the door, and invited themselves in. Meanwhile, the ACLU, MALDEF, ‘La Raza’ (the Race), and just about every left and ‘Latino’ organization threw roadblocks in the way of employer sanctions and enforcement of employment law. Now we have 12 million illegal aliens, and Perry — from all I’ve read — wants another amnesty.

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  18. For once I agree with Stari.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  19. Don’t get me wrong I will vote for Perry although I don’t expect him to solve the amnesty problem.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  20. Taxpaying American citizens who live in the border states and also along the drug highway that feeds into the cities know first hand that there is a huge problem with violence and criminality caused by the open border illegal onslaught. But beyond individuals who feel protected to talk about it in personal conversations, and those within the privacy of the law enforcement community, nobody will discuss it openly and honestly. God forbid the PC uproar from the media and Luis Gutierrez if anyone tries to call a spade a spade.

    The presidential candidate who finally figures out a way to acknowledge and speak of such things in a non demagogic manner, using facts and language that captures the costs to society of these criminals, will have voters nodding their heads and running to the ballot box to vote for him or her. They won’t even have to have the solution. Just admitting there’s a problem would be a big step forward toward finding the right solution.

    elissa (9de90e)

  21. Honestly Perry is just like Bush in regards to amnesty.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  22. The GOP Establishment is deathly afraid of the Hispanic Demographic Bomb that the Left has buried in the roadside for them to stumble over.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (3370e1)

  23. The GOP Establishment is deathly afraid of the Illegal Demographic the left has buried in the roadside because they cant pander to them.

    FIFY

    DohBiden (d54602)

  24. I think we’re both accurate.
    And, they can’t pander because they can’t figure out how without losing what little of their credibility they still retain.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (3370e1)

  25. I don’t generally like to take too much issue with other commentors, but DohBiden is just all wet. Perry KNOWS there is a problem and the left wingers and Ronnie Paul’s sycophants are demonizing Perry because Perry endorsed the Dream Act with a Texas version of the Dream Act… Oh, wait, he didn’t after all. The program endorsed by Perry required application for citizenship:

    14. Perry supports giving in-state tuition to illegals

    This is true. Perry signed the bill six years ago. Under the law, any student who has lived in Texas at least three years and graduated from a Texas high school qualifies for in-state tuition. The law also requires noncitizens to apply for citizenship. “I’m for leaving the law like it is because I think it serves a good purpose,” Perry said. Texas was one of the first states to pass an in-state tuition bill for illegal immigrants. Ten states currently have such laws, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. About 12,138 children of immigrants got in-state tuition in 2009, about 1 percent of students in Texas trade schools, colleges, and universities. Of that number, 8,406 were in community and technical schools, only 3,725 at universities, and 7 at health-related institutes. Read a good summary of the current status of this issue here at a Dallas Morning News article.

    Critics have said it gives a financial advantage to illegal immigrants while U.S. citizens who are not Texas residents still must pay out-of-state tuition rates, which are higher. Personally, I don’t like giving illegals a favorable tuition rate over other state’s legal residents. I understand his reasoning, but I don’t have to like it. I do think that there was some pandering to the Mexican immigrants (legal and illegal) behind the overwhelming votes for this bill.

    As a measure of Texas’ version of the “Dream Act,” popularity, it should be noted that it passed the Texas Senate with NO “no” votes – Perry was not out on a limb on this one, it was overwhelmingly supported. It should also be noted that the Texas “Dream” act should not be confused with the federal version. The Texas version relates to higher education only whereas the federal act alsso facilitates giving legal status to children who entered the U.S. illegally with their parents.

    For those of you with an open mind, I recommend a Google search for “17 myths about Rick Perry.”

    GM Roper (d58b94)

  26. I don’t have any inside knowledge into the way Bush or Perry view illegal immigration. I think they have similar political views, e.g., they want to look firm on illegal immigration without antagonizing Hispanics. However, I also think they are motivated by very different perceptions, perhaps because they come from very different backgrounds.

    I view Bush’s attitude on Mexican immigrants as similar to that of Bick Benedict, the character played by Rock Hudson in Giant. In the movie, Mexicans are portrayed as good, decent people who work hard and whose children become war heroes and doctors. It’s a romanticized version of immigrants and what they contribute to American society that is commonly held by elites because most of the immigrants they meet are at elite schools or household help. Clearly, this view is true for some immigrants but not all, and it tends to overlook the costs of illegal immigration in favor of the benefits that come with good immigrants.

    In contrast, I think Perry views illegal immigration from the standpoint of a businessman. He’s firm on border security because he realizes we can’t pay for the social costs of unrestrained illegal immigration, but he doesn’t support a border fence in rural areas because it may impede farmers’ and ranchers’ access to water and grazing. Couple that with the fact that some of Perry’s largest supporters benefit from immigrant labor, and the result is his sometimes mixed message on immigration.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  27. Perry critized SB1070 but you naive twits keep defending him.

    Comment by DohBiden — 8/27/2011 @ 12:32 pm

    I thought he said it wasn’t the right thing for Texas to do. I thought he didn’t express much of a problem with Arizona trying it. Correct me if I’m mistaken.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  28. What is President Obama next obnoxious assault on America, relating to illegal Immigration?

    Congress may be on vacation, but the American worker should be in full crisis mode! After an atrocious fight under the rotunda about the debt ceiling, the majority of Congressional leaders left Capitol Hill thinking their work for the summer would be over. But after that, the Obama Administration announced the postponement of practically ALL deportations of non-violent illegal aliens already ordered by U.S. immigration courts.

    Think this is bad? Well it gets even worse!

    Not merely will the President let these 300,000 illegal aliens disregard their deportation orders, he is beginning to give these illegal aliens work visas to compete with U.S. workers! That’s right! These 300,000 (and possibly more!) illegal aliens will not be returning to their home countries, even though a U.S. judge had ordered them to leave. Instead, they will be handed a free pass and perhaps a work visa to compete with 22 million Americans who cannot find full time work. The quickest and surest way to discourage President Obama’s minions from carrying out this plan is public outrage. By Channeling public feeling into constructive political action is what we do. If anyone can keep pressure on Obama, it’s NumbersUSA. HELP US!!! Go to the “American Patrol “website and see the news that Democrats and the left don’t want you to see?

    According to “American Patrol” Web site, almost one million illegal immigrants cross into the U.S annually. Illegally aliens flow easily through Arizona, while the Obama government claims it has build more than 300 miles of fencing on the 400-mile Arizona-Mexico border. A large part is ineffective, being vehicle barriers or discounted fencing. A map and photographs of the Arizona border fence is available here. Glenn Spenser of American Patrol asked, “How far have we sunk as a nation when a small border state in the midst of a recession has to ask for donations to protect itself against an invasion that is sponsored in part by the President of the United States?” He explained that Arizona is collecting donations to build a fence along its border with Mexico, which is outrageous.

    One of the distressing things about this is that Obama frequently stated in recent months that he would NOT force any type of immigration rule on his own “without the consent or passage by Congress.” This new policy proves Mr. Obama’s previous law-abiding propaganda to be deceptive at best. He was unable to jostle an illegal alien amnesty through Congress, so he just structured a temporary one by fiat. This is an attack on the Rule of Law and our Constitution. Don’t you agree?

    Only Congress and the general public can undo this misconduct now. We have to let loose every weapon in our political arsenal in rolling back this Amnesty. NumbersUSA will send out millions of free faxes and make thousands of telephone calls. We must lobby Congress to keep them up to date! The public also can bombard their Senate and Congressional representatives through the Washington switchboard at 202-224-3121

    The Administration timed its new amnesty policy to take effect during August, when Congress is out of session and the news media was sidetracked or simply ignored this disturbing issue. Sure enough, this is another amnesty that has flown under the radar of most media outlets. Six other small amnesties also were enacted silently while the press looked the other way after the 1986 immigration law. How many of your local newspapers, TV stations, or favorite blogs have reported this story?

    We all know that the open borders, businesses lobbyists, churches, unions have scolded Obama at every turn for increasing deportations (which the American population have asked him for). But just now, when zero-tolerance deportations are starting to have an impact, he turns his back on law enforcement. And in doing so, he is shrugging his shoulder on the American people. The President took an oath to follow the law — not capsize the laws. The American people can stop this by screaming the loudest. Obama will not follow through with this policy if the America person rises up and yells bloody murder.

    This is the time to empty the overcrowded classrooms, full with the children of illegal aliens. Give hospitals breathing space and saving billions of dollars from uninsured illegal immigrants, who knowingly enter by foot, vehicle, aircraft or boat into the United States. Entering illegally is a violation of our national sovereignty and it should be a felony, for anybody who knowingly breaks the rules, including businesses who hire them. Start the Attrition by enforcement programs such as E-Verify, Secure Communities and support Arizona, Alabama, Georgia, Utah and States nationwide that have no choice but to restrict illegal immigrants through police laws as their welfare programs are being sucked dry.

    Frightened illegal nationals are bypassing Arizona and loading their possessions, heading for Sanctuary States as California, Nevada, Illinois, Washington State and many counties within particular States. Rick Perry looking to enter the “White House” has an (D-) on illegal immigration as accredited to NumbersUSA, showing no leadership on pressing E-Verify for his state of Texas. Perry seems completely oblivious to illegal alien invaders, with absolute unconcern for the welfare of taxpayers. Just two TEA PARTIERS see illegal immigration as a growing mammoth problem, that being Rep. Michelle Bachmann and Rep. Herman Cain.

    We cannot accommodate any longer those who come here to steal welfare and public services from valid Americans. It is estimated that illegal aliens send home by wire transfer around $40 billion dollars annually, which should be going into state treasuries. Join the TEA PARTY; join the people who are Black, White, Hispanic and every race, religious persuasion and further backgrounds who believe in the “Rule of Law.” Sorry! We don’t accept illegal immigrants.

    MY EARLIER BLOGS: http://brittanicus-enoughisenough.blogspot.com/

    No Copyright. Distribute Freely.

    Brittanicus (d4f7cd)

  29. Ah yes the same texas farmers who are shot by illegals.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  30. DohBiden,

    The fact is that not all border owners agree about a fence. My link involves the El Paso area but I think this is even more true in South Texas, where there are close ties between Texans and Mexicans.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  31. I have but one question: Why now Perry? You have been in office 10 years, what took you so long? This IMO is pandering. Why do elected officials only do the right thing when running a campaign. This to me is nothing more than a campaign ploy, and I will treat it as such.

    jainphx (1b0a15)

  32. Well said but the perrybots will shriek about you being s palintard.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  33. Running in ’08 would have involved a primary fight against McCain, who was the “nominee in waiting” from the ’00 cycle.
    This is an “open primary” since McCain is not in this hunt.
    You really should try to keep up with the world around you; or, just go back to sleep – which it seems you’ve been doing for much of your life.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (3370e1)

  34. jainphx and DohBiden,

    I like Perry and Palin, but I agree this is a political ploy by Perry — in large part because it has no chance of succeeding. For that matter, so was pushing the sanctuary cities bill during the last (extra) Texas legislative session. But at least Perry is talking about things like this. Obama certainly won’t.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  35. Another view of the Perry/Hispanic relationship…

    http://swampland.time.com/2011/08/24/rick-perrys-complicated-relationship-with-latinos/

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (3370e1)

  36. Regarding the in-state/out-of-state tuition issue:

    People who live outside the state of Texas don’t pay its sales taxes or its property taxes or any of the user fees collected by this state. When then come to Texas, then, to take advantage of our state-funded colleges and universities, they would be getting a free ride if they weren’t charged a higher “out-of-state” rate. And presumably their own home states (whether they are states within the United States or somewhere else) have been taxing those people to support their own states’ educational systems. Or, if they’re not, that’s by choice too, and it would in theory be offset by a lower local tax bill in those places. The point is that charging a higher rate for out-of-state students is meant to ensure that those who haven’t been contributing through taxes and fees end up making up for that in higher out-of-state tuition rates.

    Because of the nature of taxes — state sales taxes especially, but also property taxes to a considerable extent — even illegal aliens (and children of illegal aliens) do end up paying those taxes. The local school district will just as cheerfully impose and then foreclose on a tax lien against the real estate of an illegal immigrant as for a citizen’s real estate. The cashier at the store doesn’t give illegal aliens a sales tax rebate.

    They may or may not be paying payroll and federal income taxes; I’m not trying to argue that they “carry their weight” if we’re talking about total tax burden, but rather I’m focusing on state taxes and fees that go to fund higher education.

    If there are other states that deny in-state tuition rates to children of illegal aliens, that surely is within the authority of those states to do, as a matter of public policy. Charging out-of-state rates to someone who has lived in-state, though, is frankly punitive. The only rationale is that you’re setting out to actively discourage illegal immigration. I suppose, at the margins and at some level, one could hypothesize that charging out-of-state tuition to in-state resident children of illegal aliens might discourage some illegal aliens from coming or staying.

    And although it’s surely constitutionally permissible, I have a hard time finding a moral justification for punishing children for their parents’ violation of the law. I find that particularly hard to justify when the policy lacks a close economic correlation to any “free-riding” that it’s intended to discourage. So if we’re looking for ways to discourage illegal immigration, I personally am inclined to look first for other means than punishing children.

    I understand that reasonable people can support a different policy. But on this one, I’m pretty much in favor of allowing qualifying students to pay the “in-state” tuition rates. And I would caution even those who disagree with me that your disagreement — your deliberate embrace of a punitive measure targeted at children — will definitely be exploited as “racist” and “brutal” and all kinds of other nasty terms. You will have handed them the ammunition for those charges, even if they’re unfounded or exaggerated. I’m not saying you should go along with them, but you certainly ought not be surprised by them. And you have to factor the intensity of the counter-reaction that you’re triggering when you figure the consequences in a two-party political system in which the other side is going to gain votes as a result of your embrace of this punitive measure.

    Beldar (8e755e)

  37. Note: Texas has no state income tax, so that’s not a means by which even legal in-state residents contribute to the cost of public higher education.

    Beldar (8e755e)

  38. So,, Patterico have you figured out why my answer to your math equation was correct?

    Jeff Barea (d276ce)

  39. @ Brittanicus — 8/27/2011 @ 1:21 pm: I dunno how Patterico feels, but on my blog I routinely delete comments, and then ban the IP address of commenters, who try to use my bandwidth to cut-and-past long screeds, whether I agree with them or not.

    “No Copyright. Distribute Freely.” <— sort of a tip-off that you have a high opinion of your work and that you're leaving it everywhere, like dog poop

    Beldar (8e755e)

  40. So,, Patterico have you figured out why my answer to your math equation was correct?

    Comment by Jeff Barea — 8/27/2011 @ 2:32 pm

    Since you are obviously not anywhere near the topic at hand, maybe you should put your claim in context, or link to the prior discussion.

    JD (318f81)

  41. Dunno how you think you can copyright something you freely publish on someone else’s blog anyway. You think you could put those strings on Patterico or anyone else, when you’re just a guest here? Sheesh.

    Beldar (8e755e)

  42. Who is Jeff Barea?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  43. I don’t know who he is, but if he was serious about Patrick answering his question, he would have posed it in an email.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (3370e1)

  44. I think he is KKKilgore Trout.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  45. “Charging out-of-state rates to someone who has lived in-state, though, is frankly punitive. The only rationale is that you’re setting out to actively discourage illegal immigration.”

    It should be punitive, they aren’t supposed to be here. Giving in-state tuition, heck letting them attend a university at all, is rewarding illegal behavior. Let’s take someone who doesn’t immigrate illegally, but wants to study in the US. He or she has to jump through the student visa hoops, pay legal and government fees, likely pay an immigration lawyer, and then pay out-of-state tuition. (California, btw, is now using its universities as profit centers, allowing more out-of-state students for the specific reason of funding. At the same time it allows illegals to attend university at in state rates, and will in the next few days likely approve taxpayer funded grants for illegal students).

    Some may question whether this might encourage illegal immigration. On the margins it certainly will. We already have ‘birth tourism’, so that foreign elites can create ‘US citizen’ children. We also have a case of that fellow — the gay Filipino journalist — who ‘came to America’ at age 12 — clearly part of his parents calculations were California’s policies of allowing illegals to attend University.

    Finally, there are the ‘invisible vicitms’ . University places are in short supply, as are funds to pay for them. That gay Filipino journalist took a place from a citizen kid, and when you have tens of thousands of people applying, there really isn’t much difference between applicant 2123 who gets in and 2124 who doesn’t. Not to mention since Filipinos are an ‘underrepresented minority’, that dude probably got a leg up over white or Asian (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) applicants to San Francisco State (his Uni).

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  46. That linked Time article above starts with Perry talking to the “the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials” annual meeting.

    Yet another example that this country is all about race/ethnicity now. Maybe whites/Anglos could afford this when we were 85% + of the population, but as we become a minority in the country that our ancestors (for the most part) created and made the most successful polity ever, we will need to create analog groups and institution. to La Raza etc. Either that or be totally crushed as a people.

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  47. ____________________________________________

    If you think Rick Perry is strong on illegal immigration, please think again.

    George W Bush was a squish about illegal immigration, and I’d be surprised if Perry — who was a registered Democrat that supported Al Gore’s run for the presidency in 1988 (when Perry was 38 years old, or certainly not a naive, idealistic high-school or college-aged kid) — will be any better.

    My biggest concern about huge amounts of illegal immigration, mainly from south of the border, isn’t even focused on whether such activity is legal or not. My greatest concern revolves around statistics that indicate a high percentage of Latino kids underperform scholastically, and that trend appears to continue generation after generation.

    After all, it’s not like the US already has such a lack of people who are underskilled and low-achieving, so therefore wouldn’t it be marvelous and generous to bring in even more of that heart-warming type of demographic—which, to make matters even more uplifting, tends to favor liberal or leftist voting patterns.

    Mark (411533)

  48. President Perry would absolutely take care of amnesty if he were to be elected president: He would sign the bill.

    Just as Nixon was one of a few who could have credibly made the first entreaties with the red Chinese, a GOP congress with a GOP president will be the ones to fashion the sainted “comprehensive” approach.

    Ed from SFV (7d7851)

  49. “The fact is that not all border owners agree about a fence. My link involves the El Paso area but I think this is even more true in South Texas, where there are close ties between Texans and Mexicans.”

    True that. Then take a look at the census figures for the counties in that area. In Hidalgo county, 83% of people speak a language other than English at home (presumeably overwhelmingly Spanish). 35% of the population is under the poverty line. Scariest fact, the county grew in population at 36% in the last ten years. Hidalgo county is the entire US’s future in we don’t change course on immigration.

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  50. Mark is absolutely right.

    The problem is not ‘illegal’ immigration, it is mass immigration which is selected mostly on the basis of nepotism (aka ‘Family Reunificiation’), not on the needs of this country.

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  51. And, unless we – on both sides of the Border – can get a handle on this…
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576528413479614524.html?mod=WSJ_hps_RIGHTTopCarousel_1
    it will only get worse, for this is just one of the things they are fleeing from.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (3370e1)

  52. He’s firm on border security because he realizes we can’t pay for the social costs of unrestrained illegal immigration,

    DRJ, I think a big, very big, reason why Texas politicians are less exercised about illegal immigration is because Texas funds its state government from sales taxes, which illegals have to pay just as citizens do.

    California, while it also has high sales taxes, relies equally on income tax that is mostly evaded by illegals. In boom years, like the 90s, California is flush with cash from income tax. That pushes up spending since politicians never think the party is going to end. Now, the state is in desperate shape so they want to raise taxes. Texas is much better off as the size of the state government is limited by the sales tax revenues which are less subject to boom and bust.

    Mike K (8f3f19)

  53. the border is far far far away from the Texas where the people actually live

    it’s not a day trip you have to get a room down there somewheres and make a weekend of it or whatever

    unless you fly … harlingen has an air show a lot of people fly their planes down for

    but mostly the whole border thing is all very out of sight out of mind to most Texans

    especially if they have cable

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  54. “DRJ, I think a big, very big, reason why Texas politicians are less exercised about illegal immigration is because Texas funds its state government from sales taxes, which illegals have to pay just as citizens do.’

    If you look at the Numbers USA ratings for Texas politicians, they are actually more restrictionist than the average. Also, I can’t really think of an actual Republican politician in California who made a big deal about illegal immigration since Pete Wilson. Not Tom Campbell, not Matt Fong, not even Meg Whitman.

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  55. That makes sense, Mike K, but there are still significant burdens on Texas and other border counties. For instance, medical costs for illegal immigrants are significant and generally covered by the county taxpayers through county charity hospitals and ERs. In some areas the paying County patients are outnumbered by the charity patients who are often illegal.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  56. I like the idea of making the Obama administration defend lawsuits with states instead of bringing them. Maybe repub governors should share ideas on how to bring more of them about-
    maybe Walker in Wis should send the bill for the Capital clean up to the pro-union labor board (I know, that’s a stretch, but you get the idea)

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  57. Mike K,

    There’s also the cost of incarcerating illegal immigrants who have committed other crimes. That’s why Texas is currently moving to deport over 11,000 foreign nationals serving time in Texas prisons.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  58. happy, you’re usually smart in a strange way, but that statement about Texas and the border is not.

    It may have been when Giant was made, but we have Interstates and things that fly in the air now — as well as real cities such as Brownsville, Harlingen, Laredo and El Paso. The sleepy border is not so sleepy anymore. Also, throw in San Antonio, Houston and Dallas.

    We’re all well aware.

    Ag80 (9a213d)

  59. I don’t agree Mr. 80 but maybe it’s a relative thing… you have a much greater sense of the proximity of a third world country here in southern California than you do most places in Texas I think.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  60. medical costs for illegal immigrants are significant

    Oh, I agree but it just shows how dumb California has been. Meg Whitman had nothing useful to say about illegals and then was ambushed by the Brown people with the nanny. Nobody ever printed who was paying Gloria Allred.

    In 2008, I was enthusiastic for Sarah Palin OR Meg Whitman as McCain’s VP. I now know that Palin was far better as a candidate no matter what the insiders say.

    I am still in California for grandchildren but I am edging toward Arizona every week.

    Mike K (8f3f19)

  61. Meg Whitman squandered God’s life savings on her failed quest for power. And the punchline is she ran on her business acumen.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  62. “And although it’s surely constitutionally permissible, I have a hard time finding a moral justification for punishing children for their parents’ violation of the law.”

    Every child that has had a parent sent to prison has suffered because of their parent’s actions. Every child whose parents borrowed too much and have been foreclosed on in this recent housing crisis has suffered through no fault of their own (moving to a new neighborhood, changing schools). What makes illegal alien parents and children any different?

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  63. happyfeet, you write, “you have a much greater sense of the proximity of a third world country here in southern California than you do most places in Texas I think.”

    But California’s border with Mexico is comparatively short. It borders only one Mexican state (Baja California), and San Diego is the only genuine city along it on the U.S. side.

    Texas’ border with Mexico is very, very long, and borders on four Mexican states (Tamaulipas, Nuevo León, Coahuila, and Chihuahua). Major linked cities include El Paso/Juarez, Laredo/Nuevo Laredo, and Brownsville/Matamoros, but there are a total of 15 legal border crossings between Texas and Mexico, typically with much larger Mexican cities on their side of the border. By contrast, there are only five crossings on the California border. I will grant that San Diego/Tijuana is more populous than any of its counterpart paired cities in Texas, but indeed, its US side is more populated than its Mexican side (whereas the opposite is true for the Texas/Mexico twinned cities), and the three big Texas/Mexico twins collectively almost match it for population.

    So I don’t know about the third-world country “feel” you’re referring to. But geography itself doesn’t support your argument. Yes, because Texas is so big, there are lots of places in Texas that are distant from the border — geographically, at least. But culturally, I don’t think that map distances really matter that much; and simply in terms of the significance of the border on residents’ daily lives, I don’t think there’s any significant difference between, say, LA and either Houston or San Antonio.

    The difference isn’t geography, I submit. It’s public policy and, to some degree, history.

    Beldar (8e755e)

  64. Perry is a good on illegal immigration as Bush was which isn’t much.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  65. stari is founding the National Association for the Advancement of White People.

    Because you all know that us whites have had it so rough for so long.

    Icy Texan (a14dff)

  66. oh… I went to my nearest Walmart and in the book section – they didn’t have a spanish-language section… *all* the books were in espanol … and also you couldn’t buy a p-touch and the maglite selection was crap, but that’s not the point… the point was I was walmart shopping with people what were entirely unacculturated… also there was one of these where they let you finance these odd poverty-sized refrigerators and ranges at ungodly interest rates with no credit

    I don’t think I could duplicate that experience a similar distance from the Mexican border anywhere in Texas. Maybe deep in some ghetto in San Antonio I guess, but I don’t think it would feel as foreign.

    And even East Austin is trendy now I heard.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  67. Mostly what I mean to say is that Southern California has large swathes of not-America. Texas I never get that feel.

    texas our texas all hail the mighty state!

    clapclapclap

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  68. colonel have question
    what is a “stari momak”?
    yugoslavian?

    ColonelHaiku (0ab8c6)

  69. I don’t know where your Wal-Mart was, happyfeet, but tomorrow I will be visiting one of my kids above Sunset Blvd. in Echo Park, and while that area above Sunset is hipsterville, one only has to go down the hill to Sunset Blvd and it is definitely an encapsulated version of Mexico from the housewives making burritos with bathtub cheese on the card tables in front of the little market, to the plethora of fruit vendors with their displays laid out on braided rugs to the garish window displays of Quinceanrena dresses to Spanish being the only language heard…and all the signs and storefront windows in Spanish. One really feels as though they are in a country other than America. But then I guess that is America now.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  70. Dana, whatever you do, stay out of Huntington Park, Cudahy, and Bell.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (3370e1)

  71. Americans usta need a passport and a plane trip to experience the type of scene that you’ve just described, Dana. Do they use pesos or dollars on Sunset?

    elissa (fd4836)

  72. _______________________________________________

    but there are still significant burdens on Texas and other border counties.

    And that doesn’t even take into account the following:

    city-journal.org, Heather MacDonald, October 2008

    The Latino Education Crisis: The Consequences of Failed Social Policies, by Patricia Gandara and Frances Contreras, offers an unflinching portrait of Hispanics’ educational problems and reaches a scary conclusion about those problems’ costs. The book’s analysis is all the more surprising given that its authors are liberals committed to bilingual education, affirmative action, and the usual slate of left-wing social programs. Yet Gandara and Contreras, education professors at UCLA and the University of Washington, respectively, are more honest than many conservative open-borders advocates in acknowledging the bad news about Hispanic assimilation.

    Hispanics are underachieving academically at an alarming rate, the authors report. Though second- and third-generation Hispanics make some progress over their first-generation parents, that progress starts from an extremely low base and stalls out at high school completion. High school drop-out rates—around 50 percent—remain steady across generations. Latinos’ grades and test scores are at the bottom of the bell curve. The very low share of college degrees earned by Latinos has not changed for more than two decades. Currently only one in ten Latinos has a college degree.

    One hundred years ago, when the U.S. still required a large industrial and agricultural labor force, Hispanics’ lagging educational performance would not have been such a problem. Our current information-based economy is unforgiving to the less-educated, however. When you couple U.S. demographics with the Hispanic education crisis, things look worrisome indeed. By 2025, one in four students nationally will be Latino; in many Southwest cities, Latinos are already about 70 percent of the school population. For the first time in history, the authors observe, the ethnic group with the lowest academic achievement will become the majority in significant parts of the country.

    Federal, state, and local governments have already spent billions trying to overcome the Latino education gap, with little success. That gap persists in part because of the stigma against academic achievement among many Latino males.

    The Latino Education Crisis pulls no punches in its conclusions: “With no evidence of an imminent turnaround in the rate at which Latino students are either graduating from high school or obtaining college degrees, it appears that both a regional and national catastrophe are at hand.” The United States is well on its way to creating a “permanent underclass,” the authors write.

    Some readers may disagree with the book’s policy recommendations — more benefits for illegal immigrants, more spending on social services and schools, more Section-8 housing vouchers, more bilingual education. Such programs have all been tried and have failed miserably.

    ^ A hint that this society is facing an indefinite downward socio-economic spiral — or indefinite stagnation at best — is when liberal academics, no less, are candid enough to admit there’s a problem with the demographic in question, but still cling to the belief (out of desperation, perhaps?) that the only solution is to continue the decades of “Great Society” programs that date back to Lyndon Johnson or, in certain ways, even Franklin Roosevelt.

    Mark (411533)

  73. elissa,

    It’s a strange place, Sunset Blvd. It feels like you are in the 3rd world at one end, yet go a few miles down the road and you’re in the uber-hipstervilles of Silverlake and Los Feliz; stay the course and you’re in the money hitting Beverly Hills and Bel-Air etc…

    Every socio-economic demographic can be found driving the length of the boulevard from the heart of Los Angeles at Figueroa all the way to Pacific Coast Highway. The only common thread seems to be the hideous traffic.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  74. I think, happy, for whatever strange reason, historically Texans have kind of liked Mexicans.

    I mean, they helped us fight for independence, then they became leaders of a young nation that eventually became a state.

    We also shared a long border and our culture is ingrained with the Hispanic culture.

    People from Mexico have never been strange to most Texans. They are simply Texans, much like the Germans, Poles, Wendts, Irish, British, Russians, Czechs, Africans, et al, that settled here when the Caddoes, Apaches, Comanches, Kiowas and Karankawas said oops, what were we thinking?

    Ag80 (9a213d)

  75. Ah, happy, I see what you’re saying. Sorry for the distraction.

    Ag80 (9a213d)

  76. stari’s name is not
    Yugoslavian; it is
    screw-loose-Aryan

    Icy Texan (a14dff)

  77. “Maybe deep in some ghetto in San Antonio I guess, but I don’t think it would feel as foreign.”

    Mr. Feets – I love Walmart and think it is a happy happy place not like a ghetto. You can almost anything you want at a Walmart and even things you did not know you wanted are there waiting for you at every day low prices. My next most favorite store is Fleet & Farm cuz I never know what I need until I walk in their door and see their amazing selection of necessities at rock bottom prices.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  78. Dunno how you think you can copyright something you freely publish on someone else’s blog anyway.

    Beldar, you don’t “copyright” something; anything a person writes is copyright by definition, and it belongs to the author unless he explicitly donates it to the public domain, as “Brittanicus” has done with his long piece. Filing a copyright is only necessary if you want to sue an infringer for statutory damages instead of actual damages.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  79. Actually, Milhouse, you must register to sue in any event. You only get statutory damages if the registration predated the infringement.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  80. I believe Mr. Feets lives a few miles south of me in North Hollywood. One of the things that frustrates me because I don’t speak Spanish (29 programming languages and biblical Greek, no sweat, spoken languages, not so good) is the proliferation of Spanish only signs and billboards. I can’t read them. I feel that the country I was born in is no longer the United States, but an extension of Latin America.

    Tanny O'Haley (12193c)

  81. There is no such thing as ‘Yugoslavian’. Yugoslavia was a fake nation. If fell apart, it no longer exists. Even when it existed, it didn’t pretend there was a language called ‘Yugoslavian’.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if something like the fate of Yugoslavia is waiting for the US.

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  82. “It feels like you are in the 3rd world at one end, yet go a few miles down the road and you’re in the uber-hipstervilles of Silverlake and Los Feliz; stay the course and you’re in the money hitting Beverly Hills and Bel-Air etc”

    Extremes of wealth and poverty *are* characteristics of the third world, as are the ‘gate guarded communities’ so common in SoCal now. It didn’t used to be that way, the classic California of the Beach Boys etc was hugely middle class and working middle class. All destroyed so self-hating white men like Icy Texan can feel morally superior to those who actually care about the society their ancestors built.

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  83. “I mean, they helped us fight for independence, ”

    The vast majority of the ‘Texicans’ who fought Santa Ana were Anglos, though there were a few Hispanics. The vast majority of ‘Hispanics’ in Texas right now are descended from people who would have been on Santa Ana’s side.

    BTW neither Spain nor Mexico really controlled much of the SW, outside of isolated settlements. Look at old maps, you’ll see the area labelled as Apacheria — because the Apaches controlled it. And believe me, Apache’s didn’t merely deport illegal aliens they found on their land.

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  84. This Mestizo says stari_momak is an idiot. And Icy Texan, while differing with me on stuff from time to time, is good people.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  85. Of course, I’d love for stari_momak to call Dustin “a self-hating white man.” That’d be hilarious.

    Don’t stari_momak gotsta go back to Stormfront or wherever that place is? He been out past curfew again.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  86. “Of course, I’d love for stari_momak to call Dustin “a self-hating white man.””

    Icy Texan has identified himself as a white man, I have no clue as to Dustin’s race/ethnicity. Icy is self-hating because he want’s to deny whites the ‘voice’ that other groups, that other groups have, including “mextizos”.

    Funny thing is, very few people ever challenge me on facts — I’ve been to the Alamo, I’ve read the names. Anglos virtually all of them.

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  87. LOL @ John.

    Good to see you around, btw.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  88. As I have said before, I think someone is missing a nice white sheet and a pillowcase. Just more offensive trollery.

    Simon Jester (71c865)

  89. Stari likes to prove how not-racist he is by acting like a complete racist.

    JD (d48c3b)

  90. Or, is he acting?

    JD (306f5d)

  91. Tanny, come to Chinatown in NYC and you’ll see lots of signs you can’t read.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  92. Comment by stari_momak — 8/28/2011 @ 1:02 am

    Oh brother, stari_momak, stop being a know-it-all and so literal. Of course those are characteristics of a 3rd world – the extreme poverty and wealth. My children learned that on their first trip to interior Mexico to help feed the Indians. My point was (clearly not worded to your needed precision) the extremes in L.A. are stunning. I’ve been here my entire life and am quite (painfully) aware of the decline.

    You do not need to *teach* us. Give commenters the benefit of the doubt, assume we are intelligent, and take at face value a comment made to illustrate the striking contrast of one boulevard as it relates to the subject matter at hand.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  93. Ditto Vietnamese areas of Chicago and Houston, Chinatown anywhere …

    JD (d48c3b)

  94. stari must hang with the likes of spvrty way too much.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  95. Every socio-economic demographic can be found driving the length of the boulevard from the heart of Los Angeles at Figueroa all the way to Pacific Coast Highway

    One gets a similar feeling on Germantown Ave. in Philly.

    The concept of “the other side of the tracks” I believe does not require an immigrant population. Small rural towns can have a division between “society’s upper crust” and the “riff-raff” that has nothing to do with immigration.

    I do wonder what it is that has made one group of people want to work to make it and assimilate as opposed to another, or was it the environment they were surrounded by, or what combination.
    Of course, individuality exists and a spectrum of responses is present within the (stereo)typical characteristics of a group.

    For example, I’m sure the Irish or Swedes leaving agricultural hardships had very different expectations than Vietnamese and Hmong being placed due to the tides of war.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  96. Chinatowns have their core that remains to it’s own culture, but from what I can tell the following generations enjoy the old while assimilating to the new. Not sure why some others don’t seem to as much. Then again, maybe I’m speaking form my own naivete.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  97. form
    from

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  98. Thanks, Dustin. I mostly lurk these days, when I’m not off lurking elsewhere or writing my own blog.

    But ya gotta love when some blame fool says “that guy had an anglo name so you know he was anglo” whatever that means. Cause ya gotta know Barry White is … white. But what do I know? I’m just a sub-human mixed-breed.

    Oh, and cute Dana, I have 3 Jimmy Choos over here I’ll give ya once ya bring me my lunch. Strange thing, they’re all for the left foot.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  99. Many make the point that the Hispanic Wave is the first immigrant wave that has not had to cut itself off from its roots due to the close proximity of those roots, and the historical easy interchange between Mexico and El Norte; therefore, assimilation is much more prolonged when it occurs.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  100. yumpin’ yiminy!
    ya can get yer lumps in ol’
    Swedetown, by golly!

    ColonelHaiku (0ab8c6)

  101. about polaroids
    givin’ head to steve mcQueen
    f*ck a stari, f*ckah

    ColonelHaiku (0ab8c6)

  102. yer tricks with fruit was
    kinda cute what I call obscene
    stari f*ck a star

    ColonelHaiku (0ab8c6)

  103. The concept of “the other side of the tracks” I believe does not require an immigrant population. Small rural towns can have a division between “society’s upper crust” and the “riff-raff” that has nothing to do with immigration.

    I do wonder what it is that has made one group of people want to work to make it and assimilate as opposed to another, or was it the environment they were surrounded by, or what combination.

    I grew up in a “transition” neighborhood in an almost all-white town of 15,000. People moved in from “less than”, lived there for 5 to 7 years, and then moved to “greater than”. We moved in from “less than” in 1971 and my mother still lives there.

    My great-grandparents lived on the wrong side of the tracks all my life, until they passed over. Then as an adult, I owned and lived in their house for 17 years, until just recently. While there is definitely more riff in the raff, the majority of the people are just working class folk: factory workers, mechanics, nursing assistants and suchlike. “Your lot in life” has as much to do with where you live as your attitude about it. It’s the tools Providence gave you.

    Of course, we didn’t have any real slums, more 120-year-old, worn out homes (on oversized lots).

    Just a picture from this side, MD. No offense taken and no offense intended.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  104. the brain bell jangler
    ev’rybody gotta go!
    colonel jump the wall

    ColonelHaiku (0ab8c6)

  105. … assume we are intelligent, …
    Comment by Dana — 8/28/2011 @ 9:04 am

    stari can’t do that, you might not be white.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  106. “I wouldn’t be surprised if something like the fate of Yugoslavia is waiting for the US.”

    stari – Really? You expect to see the U.S. torn apart by ethnic and religious strife? In what timeframe? Do you have a bunker?

    Were you born in the United States? Did you live here in the 1960s?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  107. @ Stashiu,

    stari can’t do that, you might not be white.

    Oh yeah…silly brown me. :)

    Dana (4eca6e)

  108. I wouldn’t be surprised if something like the fate of Yugoslavia is waiting for the US.
    Comment by stari_momak — 8/28/2011 @ 12:57 am

    — Wouldn’t that be the greatest thing! You could become the founder and first president of Whitesylvania

    “Caucasiaticut”?

    “Whiteaho”?

    Icy Texan (8f4d4b)

  109. “Wouldn’t that be the greatest thing! You could become the founder and first president of Whitesylvania”

    Icy – Who needs a remake of Red Dawn when we can have stari’s ethnic and religious war?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  110. You know, I have a signed copy of a Michael Ramirez cartoon, from when he was drawing for the Memphis Commercial-Appeal, of a cartoon he did entitled “The Divided States of America”, which mimics Icy’s comment, and it was drawn almost 20-years ago. Tried to find it on the ‘net so I could post a link, but no luck.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  111. Ya know, Icy, my last winter in Ohio before I moved down to the great state of Texas (home of some of my ancestors before those dirty Europeans graffitied Plymoth Rock), I had a finger turn whiter than snow. But it was likely some medical problem. Collapsing blood vessels due to the 10 degree weather or something.

    The whitest people mostly have medical issues or anomalies. Albinism or death. 😉

    Oh, and the Aryan “race” is a mixed breed from the get-go.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  112. Here’s the u that fell on the floor.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  113. _________________________________________

    but from what I can tell the following generations enjoy the old while assimilating to the new. Not sure why some others don’t seem to as much.

    The attitude of “when in Rome, do as the Romans do” stems in part from people’s political views. I notice that those on the left tend to be into a “do your own thang” way of thinking, in which non-conformity in general isn’t seen as such a bad thing. Most importantly, there’s more of a mindset of wanting to slam and be envious and jealous of those who are successful and upwardly mobile (ie, a willingness to engage in class warfare).

    Of course, you’ll see facets of this in all people, conservatives included, but it appears to be a far more pervasive trait in way more folks on the left.

    There are forms of group-think and chauvinism in virtually all societies or communities. But even when a populace is failing or full of dysfunction or mediocrity, I notice that many on the left will tolerate or even embrace that. If such liberals are outsiders to that community, they’ll proclaim: “Live and let live!! After all, who are we to say what is good or bad?!!” And if such liberals are on the inside of that community (eg, La Raza, Al Sharpton, etc) they’re likely to proclaim “we’re losers and malcontents, and proud of it!!”

    A form of that is described in the following…

    city-journal.org

    Federal, state, and local governments have already spent billions trying to overcome the Latino education gap, with little success. That gap persists in part because of the stigma against academic achievement among many Latino males. [Patricia] Contreras and [Frances] Gandara recount a typical classroom episode: a boy correctly answered a math question, only to be greeted by chants of “schoolboy, schoolboy” from the other male children, followed by the comment: “Now you think you are smart.”

    ^ The embrace of a left-leaning mindset by a high percentage of people in parts of this country and where the greatest number of illegal immigrants to the US are originating from, Mexico, is at the core of the problem.

    An indication of that was on display a few years south of the border, when the current president of Mexico, who’s ideologically sort of like an Arnold Schwarzenegger (ie, very squishy), almost lost the election to the mayor of Mexico City, an avowed Socialist. That was due to the ultra-liberal on the ballot splitting the vote with a third candidate, who also was of the left.

    So Mexico’s version of the Democrat Party has pretty much dominated almost every political office in Mexican society for over 80 years. But, of course, that political faction (and mindset) has presided over a country that has been, and remains, so peaceful, successful, prosperous and honest (very little corruption!).

    I guess in cases like that, the concept of “when in Rome, do as the Romans do” takes on a whole different and not necessarily positive meaning.

    Mark (411533)

  114. All destroyed so self-hating white men like Icy Texan can feel morally superior to those who actually care about the society their ancestors built.

    — Scary Moleman thinks I’m a self-hating white man?
    — Scary Moleman thinks I don’t care about the society that my ancestors, as well as the ancestors of others, built up?
    — Scary Moleman thinks that it’s necessary to be Euro-centric and ethno-centric in order to properly care about our society?
    — Scary Moleman thinks it impossible for blacks & Hispanics to assimilate into American society?

    Icy Texan (8f4d4b)

  115. Amazing that no one here wants to lift a finger to preserve the white majority that this country has had for 235 years. You’d rather just laugh at the racially aware realists. You guys won’t be laughing anymore 20 to 30 years down the line.

    Chris (b0fa47)

  116. my favorite part of white culture is birthday cake and then after that it’s Christmas and then after that it’s how you can charge things to your parents’ tab at the club

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  117. Amazing that no one here wants to lift a finger to preserve the white majority that this country has had for 235 years. You’d rather just laugh at the racially aware realists. You guys won’t be laughing anymore 20 to 30 years down the line.

    Comment by Chris — 8/28/2011 @ 11:28 am | (Ignore this user)

    Barack Obama is half white and less than half black. My grandson is half black and less than half white. You do the math, you worthless piece of trash. And go do something anatomically impossible with yourself while you’re at it.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  118. And believe me, Apache’s didn’t merely deport illegal aliens they found on their land.
    Comment by stari_momak — 8/28/2011 @ 1:07 am

    — And yet, you don’t want them to do that kind of ‘deportation’ nowadays, do ya?

    Icy Texan (8f4d4b)

  119. Pretty Dana and I have something in common. She just has lots more of it than me, since I’m also Irish.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  120. ______________________________________________

    Amazing that no one here wants to lift a finger to preserve the white majority

    The “white majority” you’re so protective of deserves no respect and no appreciation if it’s similar to the following very white, very Caucasian, very Anglo person…

    Foxnews.com:

    Former Vice President Al Gore is comparing the struggle to win over climate change skeptics to the fight against racism.

    When racist comments would come up in the course of conversations, “There came a time when people said, ‘Hey man, why do you talk that way? That’s wrong, I don’t go for that, so don’t talk that way around me. I just don’t believe that,’” Gore said in an interview Friday with FearLess Revolution founder Alex Bogusky.

    “That happened in millions of conversations, and slowly the conversation was won,” Gore said. “And we still have racism, God knows, but it’s so different now and so much better. And we have to win the conversation on climate.”

    Gore also wants people to give up meat and go organic to combat global warming.

    BTW, when it comes to LA’s populace today compared with decades ago, I recall statistics that indicated even when the region was far more Anglo-dominant, it wasn’t so great back then either, in terms of its levels of income and academic achievement. The LA area even was derided as, or notorious for being, culturally half-assed. So forms of mediocrity know no bounds, racial or ethnic, etc.

    Mark (411533)

  121. I got a rhyme that ends in a riddle
    what’s round on the ends and white in the middle?

    Owhiteo

    ColonelHaiku (0ab8c6)

  122. Here’s some math for you guys: in 20 to 30 years white liberals + minorities will have a working majority to enact their radical anti-white campaign of redistribution and cultural destruction that will make Obama look like Berry Goldwater.

    Chris (b0fa47)

  123. chris forgets the low
    testosterone of male libs
    can’t pollinate fleur

    ColonelHaiku (0ab8c6)

  124. oh, lib bee where
    is thy sting? methinks sumpin’
    rotten in denmark

    ColonelHaiku (0ab8c6)

  125. Here’s some math for you guys: in 20 to 30 years white liberals + minorities will have a working majority to enact their radical anti-white campaign of redistribution and cultural destruction that will make Obama look like Berry Goldwater.

    Comment by Chris — 8/28/2011 @ 11:45 am | (Ignore this user)

    Chrissykins, go back to Stormfront. Sane people don’t want anything to do with your bile.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  126. love is all you need
    but lib maxwells ain’t got no
    silver hammers, chris

    ColonelHaiku (0ab8c6)

  127. “Amazing that no one here wants to lift a finger to preserve the white majority that this country has had for 235 years. You’d rather just laugh at the racially aware realists.”

    Chris – What exactly do you mean by lifting a finger? Spell it out for us dumb rubes.

    Is your solution to kill or deport or segregate the non-white population of the U.S.?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  128. Amazing that no one here wants to lift a finger to preserve the white majority that this country has had for 235 years.

    What would be the point? That’s like complaining that “for 529 years ketchup has been America’s favourite condiment, and now mustard is set to displace it, and nobody cares!”

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  129. Comment by stari_momak — 8/28/2011 @ 7:06 am

    Icy is self-hating because he want’s to deny whites the ‘voice’ that other groups, that other groups have, including “mextizos”.
    — stari is all good with that ‘melting pot’ concept; that is, as long as the brown gravy is subsumed into the alfredo sauce.

    Funny thing is, very few people ever challenge me on facts
    — You cannot challenge what is not there.

    Icy Texan (8f4d4b)

  130. Chris – A reminder, turds can’t get pregnant.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  131. stari ubermensch
    Das ist gut, c’est fantastique
    just goosestep and jump

    ColonelHaiku (0ab8c6)

  132. stari momak thick
    two fat persons, click click click
    vineyards of Bordeaux

    ColonelHaiku (0ab8c6)

  133. What would be the point? That’s like complaining that “for 529 years ketchup has been America’s favourite condiment, and now mustard is set to displace it, and nobody cares!”

    Comment by Milhouse — 8/28/2011 @ 11:56 am

    Didn’t salsa already surpass catsup as the top selling condiment in the US? Or perhaps that famous white guy was just a bit off: “Condiments? People don’t buy those anymore.”

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  134. You guys won’t be laughing anymore 20 to 30 years down the line.
    Comment by Chris — 8/28/2011 @ 11:28 am

    I’ll be dead then, and I’m the last of a bad line, so deal with it.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  135. – And yet, you don’t want them to do that kind of ‘deportation’ nowadays, do ya?
    Comment by Icy Texan — 8/28/2011 @ 11:40 am

    Sure would cut down on the recidivism.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  136. Yeah, heard the diesel drumming all down the line.
    Oh, heard the wires a humming all down the line.
    Yeah, hear the women sighing all down the line.
    Oh, hear the children crying all down the line.

    (All down the line.) We’ll be watching out for trouble, yeah.
    (All down the line.) And we’d better keep the motor running, yeah.
    (All down the line.) Well, you can’t say yes and you can’t say no,
    Just be right there when the whistle blows.
    I need a sanctified girl with a sanctified mind to help me now.

    Yeah, all the people singing all down the line.
    Mmmm, watch the men all working, working, yeah. (All down the line.)

    (All down the line.) We’re gonna open up the throttle yeah.
    (All down the line.) We’re gonna bust another bottle, yeah.
    (All down the line.)

    I need a shot of salvation, baby, once in a while.
    Hear the whistle blowing, hear it for a thousand miles.

    ColonelHaiku (0ab8c6)

  137. The LA area even was derided as, or notorious for being, culturally half-assed.
    Comment by Mark — 8/28/2011 @ 11:43 am

    Our cultural betters – in “Gotham” and “Baghdad by the Bay” – always looked down upon their crass, culturally deprived, cousins who dealt in such vulgar pursuits as “moving pictures”.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  138. Chris – Dude, answer some questions. This seems so important to you that you are angry at people here.

    What are your plans for preserving the white majority in the U.S. Are they secret, illegal or violent? What is the frequency Chris?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  139. Comment by Chris — 8/28/2011 @ 11:45 am

    Learn how to spell “Barry”.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  140. daley, I think Chris broadcasts on the Twisted Meter Band.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  141. Just a picture from this side, MD. No offense taken and no offense intended.

    Not sure who was supposed to be offended John, or why.
    I think the basic issue is that we humans are self-centered to a fault by (fallen)nature. As such, we are alwys looking to protect our own interests even if at the expense of others. I think human nature in its unfallen state would have looked out for one’s own interests but not at the expense of others, knowing that at some level what is good for everyone (like peace, not war, as a generality) is typically good for me, too, and that which is “good” for me in the short term in a way that is unjust to others, will eventually not really be good for me, either. (philosophically/theologically based on Phillipians chap 2).
    My father as a child lived in a shack in coal-country Kentucky, my aunt tongue-in-cheek thought of herself as Ellie-May Clampett. My mom grew up in small town Ohio not of the socialite crowd. Even as a professional scientist with a MS transferred to Wisconsin, some in the community thought “the city was a nice placed until those people from Ohio (like my dad and our family) moved here”.
    When in language school in Costa Rica we were informed by neighbors in the San Jose area yhay they were of a higher class than the Ticos who lived in the valley over on the other side of the mountain.
    I grew up thinking it was an honorable thing to be from a family that moved up by way of education and was skilled and self-reliant to build their own house (as opposed to having been educated for generations and having the wealth to have somebody else build your house).
    For 25+ years we’ve lived on the East coast, a physician trained in the midwest who has lived in neighborhoods “socioeconomically” poor or (lower?)middle class like my patients and people I go to church with. To some I’m an unimpressive doc from the midwest who is “just a family doctor”, to others I’m a Doctor and hence rich and privileged, to others I’m a doctor who has wasted his talent and worked for peanuts instead of something better.

    King’s dream of judging by content of character and not by color of skin, level of education, or location of address sounds pretty good to me, and even then, “judging by character” doesn’t mean the opportunity to be self-righteous. Thinking in generalities is important at times, but thinking as one group vs another group typically doesn’t get us to where we want to go.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  142. ______________________________________________

    “Amazing that no one here wants to lift a finger to preserve the white majority that this country

    It’s pathetic because I’ve noticed that through the years certain people who are candid and up-front in public about certain sociological idiosyncrasies, particularly those involving race, ethnicity and religion, will in the beginning sound realistic and sensible, but then they’ll go off the deep end and reveal what really motivates them.

    I’ve observed people saying things along the lines of: “Oh, those black folks don’t know how to maintain their homes nicely, so they hurt property values! Pfft!” Then: “Oh, those Jews are too rich and power hungry! They control the media!! Pfft!”

    The pettiness and bigotry of people are best exemplified by the history of membership policies associated with various exclusive country or business clubs throughout the country. That’s when even very successful, well-educated, sophisticated people who also happened to be black or Jewish, or Asian or Latino, would have their membership applications tossed into the trash bin. So drawing idiotic demarcation lines around and between people does originate from a dark, corrupt place.

    Now in the early 21st century, we’ve gone from that extreme to another one. A paradigm of that is represented by the case of a member of the US Army, Nidal Hasan, spouting off virulent anti-American rhetoric in front of his colleagues, no less, for an extended period of time. Extreme, deranged behavior from a person that caused those around him to apparently do no more than tiptoe and whisper right up until the day of the Fort Hood massacre.

    Humans seem to get caught in vicious cycles of extremism, lunacy and stupidity.

    Mark (411533)

  143. Doc, have any of your patients paid you with a pig (Doc Hollywood)?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  144. Al Gore’s daddy is a bull connor racist.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  145. Seal the border, deport illegal immigrants, end birthright citizenship, reduce legal immigration drastically. That would be a good start.

    Chris (b0fa47)

  146. Not sure who was supposed to be offended John, or why.

    Not important, since nobody was.

    King’s dream of judging by content of character and not by color of skin, level of education, or location of address sounds pretty good to me, and even then, “judging by character” doesn’t mean the opportunity to be self-righteous. Thinking in generalities is important at times, but thinking as one group vs another group typically doesn’t get us to where we want to go.

    +5

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  147. AD- no pigs, but home-made dolls, home made leather plaques, bottles of salsa carried in luggage from Costa Rica, giant cookies, and “Edible Creations” fruit baskets.

    Mark-
    The other week while channel surfing the Sirius XM in the car I came upon the following refrain which I had forgotten existed:
    “War is stupid,
    and people are stupid…”

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  148. Seal the border, deport illegal immigrants, end birthright citizenship, reduce legal immigration drastically. That would be a good start.

    Comment by Chris — 8/28/2011 @ 12:37 pm | (Ignore this user)

    Why don’t we just shoot the white supremists? That would do even better than “reduc[ing] legal immigration drastically.” Because we’d then have more room for quality legal immigrants as worthless riff-raff would be far fewer.

    (Note, I do not support killing racists like Chris, just mocking them and sending them running home in tears to mommy.)

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  149. …dolls, and other purposes…
    That’s heartwarming, Doc.
    I’m sure you found a good use for all of it.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  150. Comment by John Hitchcock — 8/28/2011 @ 12:41 pm

    You’re a finer man than I, McGee!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  151. “– Scary Moleman thinks it impossible for blacks & Hispanics to assimilate into American society?”

    I’d say the evidence points in the opposite direction. When blacks really were discriminated against they tried mightily to fit into mainstream, white, society. Contrast Ray Charles or Nat King Cole with P-Diddy or Kanye West.

    As for Hispanics, great swaths of the country are now overwhelmingly Mexican, especially in the school age population. Any ‘assimilation’ will be in the other direction. Even Mark Steyn has come around to this view, noting the difference between traditional immigration and what is essentially a borderland migration with ‘Latinos’ simply displacing other groups.

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  152. What exactly is so wrong with supporting your race?

    Chris (b0fa47)

  153. What exactly is so wrong with supporting your race?

    Comment by Chris — 8/28/2011 @ 12:46 pm | (Ignore this user)

    All people on the face of the Earth can trace their lineage back to four men: Noah, Shem, Ham, Japheth; therefore, there is no “race” but the human race. And your question is proof positive you are a vile, disgusting racist who deserves no place of respect in any civilized society. Now go tell your mommy that the mixed-breed grandpa of an even more mixed-breed boy was mean to you, pissant.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  154. –Learn how to spell “Barry”.–

    And equally as important, Chris, please never again use the words “Obama” and Barry “Goldwater” in the same sentence. Thanks.

    elissa (c6b43d)

  155. stari_momak, don’t desecrate Mark Steyn’s name by accusing him of the same racism that is devouring (has already devoured) your mind. There is a massive difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration. And I don’t think we have much of a problem with Canucks illegally running the border to live in the US.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  156. “BTW, when it comes to LA’s populace today compared with decades ago, I recall statistics that indicated even when the region was far more Anglo-dominant, it wasn’t so great back then either, in terms of its levels of income and academic achievement”

    No, the schools really have taken a dive in the state by state rankings since we have been ‘enriched’. But that’s kind of besides the point. The fact is that for Americans, SoCal was a practical paradise for the middle class, the working class, 4 decades ago. Now it has nightmarish traffic 24/7, you can’t just send your kid to the neighborhood school and be sure he’ll do okay, housing prices are still insane. The only thing better is the air quality, and even that is because of policies put in place long before this tidal wave of immigration.

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  157. Amazing that no one here wants to lift a finger to preserve the white majority that this country has had for 235 years. You’d rather just laugh at the racially aware realists. You guys won’t be laughing anymore 20 to 30 years down the line.
    Comment by Chris — 8/28/2011 @ 11:28 am

    — Okay, Kommamdant. You gather the wood, I’ll grab some nails, and we’ll start building that ultra-special low-income housing.

    Icy Texan (8f4d4b)

  158. What exactly is so wrong with supporting your race?
    Comment by Chris — 8/28/2011 @ 12:46 pm

    — Personally, I support the human race.

    But please, you continue on doing your thing. It seems to be working out very well for you.

    Icy Texan (8f4d4b)

  159. Didn’t salsa already surpass catsup as the top selling condiment in the US? Or perhaps that famous white guy was just a bit off: “Condiments? People don’t buy those anymore.”

    Yeah, I was just making it up; my “529 years” should have tipped you off. I have no idea what America’s most popular condiment is, or what it has been historically, and I don’t care. It is whatever it is. Ditto for the exact proportions of the various races in the population. I do not believe that everyone is exactly equal and race doesn’t matter; race is a real and useful concept, and it does matter for all sorts of purposes, but I see no reason to prefer one racial mix over another. The population is what it is, and it will be what it will be, and the exact snapshot at any one moment is a mere curiosity.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  160. Our nations ancestors understood that race mixing was destructive and wrong. See everything in between the U.S. and (mainly) white Argentina and Chile.

    Chris (b0fa47)

  161. Not counting white costa rica of course.

    Chris (b0fa47)

  162. In so far as “race” has no meaning other than a probabilistic statement about a population of gene alleles, I see no need to “support” it.

    Otherwise, I can only observe that we seem to have some commentators usually only encountered on the bottom of one’s shoe after a walk in the dog park.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  163. I basically agree with “Chris” on most of the facts; I just don’t agree on the significance of those facts. He and his ilk get all worked up, as if “the white race” were some discrete entity with rights and feelings and aspirations for the future. That’s just nonsense. Race is an attribute of people; it’s a fuzzy attribute, but in most cases it has some useful meaning for the particular individual. But “the white race” is no more useful a concept than “the set of people who are exactly 165 cm tall”, or “the set of people with detached earlobes”. And I couldn’t give a damn how many such people there were 50 years ago, or will be 50 years from now.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  164. I make an excellent salsa. I don’t think I’m closely related to anyone of hispanic origin.

    Not that I’d care if I were.

    I believe in honoring one’s heritage, but race is not usually the same thing as one’s family heritage. Supporting one race is stupid, whether it’s La Raza or Chris being a moron.

    I think illegal immigration is a massive problem, but I find legal immigration to be a wonderful thing that we need more of, and should change laws to ensure more of. I only ask that the immigrant speak the language (English), obey all the laws, and be employed in a skilled profession.

    Things like salsa are a great example of what’s so great about immigration. America is a greater nation than any other because we are not defined by stupid things like race. So we have bright people from all corners of the planet sharing what works all over the planet.

    We need to get back to that. Racism is for weak minded people, whether it’s the progressive variety or the reactionary one.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  165. nothing like ketchup on a big heaping plate of whitey food

    it’s whiteylicious!

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  166. stari – When is the religious and ethnic war you predict going to start? I want to be prepared.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  167. Our nations ancestors understood that race mixing was destructive and wrong.

    Destructive of whom or what?

    Wrong by what standard, exactly? Right and wrong are defined either by some set of moral principles, or by some authority such as the Bible. Under which set of principles, or according to which authority, does it matter how similar the racial attributes of a set of parents are? None that I’ve ever heard of. Certainly not the Bible!

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  168. Does Chris post under another name at a different blog and spend his time here fishing for things he can distort elsewhere, such as, “This guy at Patterico posted ‘X’ and no one challanged him”?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  169. “…there are only two races, the decent and the indecent…”
    -Dennis Prager

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  170. And +! to those who noticed that it’s not a world where one race is vying against another race.

    What makes this country good for ‘whites’ will also make it good for ‘blacks’. Whenever someone tries to sell a policy on the basis of race, they are actually con artists. For example, welfare or inner city racial politics have not produced a black community that is better off. Slavery did not help white people (only a small percentage were slave owners, and ultimately this country paid horribly).

    Trying to preserve a ‘white majority’ is helpful in no way whatsoever, except for the con artists who are trying to get attention.

    As soon as we ignore race and start working for the general good (generally by getting the government off our backs) we can move in the direction of individual merit, responsibility, and opportunity. Better for everyone.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  171. MD in Philly, I can’t say if that’s Chris’s plan, but my guess is that it is. Killgore Trout planting of hatred, because he couldn’t hold his own in a real argument.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  172. I recall a book by a Black journo who IIRC worked for the LAT or perhaps the WaPo, describing his journey back to Africa to find his Roots, where he stated that the best thing that happened to him, and his family, was his distant ancestor being sold into slavery and transported to North America.
    Of course, he caught Holy Hell! for saying anything good about slavery.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  173. ____________________________________________

    Our cultural betters – in “Gotham” and “Baghdad by the Bay” – always looked down upon their crass, culturally deprived, cousins who dealt in such vulgar pursuits as “moving pictures”.

    But to be honest there were certain cultural and educational institutions of higher learning (eg, USC, UCLA) that either didn’t exist in LA or were deemed second rate until not all that long ago, certainly back in the 1950s.

    BTW, I recall talking to a very liberal person several months ago who is native to the LA area. He’s so leftwing he said that he didn’t even consider Hugo Chavez to be an extremist. He started waxing nostalgic about the region when he was growing up, back in the 1950s, 1960s. I told him that certain things were better back then, but there were other aspects of LA that were quite mediocre.

    I found it amusing and a bit ironic that I, a conservative — worried about the future of California due to excessive illegal immigration — was telling him, a liberal, that the good ol’ days weren’t necessarily all they were cracked up to be.

    Mark (411533)

  174. Millhouse, I saw your sarc tag. I was just using your statement to shove a fact in Chris’s face. Americans consume more of a Mexican condiment than they do an American condiment. Heck, it’s likely Americans consume more of that Mexican condiment than Mexicans do.

    I added my own sarc tag when I (mis)quoted the famous Rocky Balboa, but there are times when sarc tags are difficult to pick out.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  175. If this guy likes Chavez, he must think that Villaraigosa has “possibilities”.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  176. It’s the assimilation pieces of the puzzle that’re off kilter and broken. It’s not the “there’s a lot of different races” pieces of the puzzle. Those are two very different things.

    elissa (c6b43d)

  177. Race is another word for your extended family. It is clear their are attributes of the extended white family that don’t apply to certain other races, among them higher iq and a greater willingness to defer gratification.

    Chris (b0fa47)

  178. _____________________________________________

    “War is stupid,
    and people are stupid…”

    An example of how astonishingly different socio-political trends can be from one period to the next is that it wasn’t that long ago (only about 70 years ago) when societies within Western Europe (!) would declare war on one another. In the context of today — when Europe has become thoroughly EU-ized, NATO-ized and UN-ized — that type of reality seems distant, alien and unimaginable.

    So will Europe go from the extreme of the past — of aggressive, chauvinistic nationalism — to another extreme of today or the future? That extreme being secular pacificism or certainly socio-political lethargy—with political correctness run amok (eg, the mindset that led to the recent riots in London or the Islamicization of parts of France, etc).

    Mark (411533)

  179. That seems to be the $64-Billion question, doesn’t it?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  180. Our nations ancestors understood that race mixing was destructive and wrong. See everything in between the U.S. and (mainly) white Argentina and Chile.

    Comment by Chris — 8/28/2011 @ 1:09 pm | (Ignore this user)

    Do you mean like that Englishman who came to the New World 400 years ago, married an Indian princess, then took her back to England to live there, a truly Christian woman? Or do you mean my ancestors, who mixed Irish, Mexican, Indian (feather) to create my family tree? You gotta explain it to me because I’m just a dumb, destructive aberration not fit to be called human.

    Now, go running home to your Grand Kleagle and tell him a mixed-breed was mean to you by beating you over the head with facts that counter your evil lies.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  181. Race is another word for your extended family. It is clear their are attributes of the extended white family that don’t apply to certain other races, among them higher iq and a greater willingness to defer gratification.

    Comment by Chris — 8/28/2011 @ 1:33 pm

    You don’t watch much international news, do you?

    What a lame ass troll.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  182. ______________________________________________

    When blacks really were discriminated against they tried mightily to fit into mainstream, white, society.

    But that had just as much to do, if not far more to do, with the way that society in general tilted to the right instead of the left. IOW, it wasn’t discrimination but a prevailing conservative mentality (socially if not politically) found in many people decades ago — black and white — that, in turn, affected the communities they were a part of, black neighborhoods included.

    By contrast, in 2011 the number of single, unwed women giving birth to children in Scandinavian countries now is very similar to the rate of that in black America. In effect, such things really do reflect the role and importance of socio-political biases on a society. So when making assessments you need to keep in mind “liberal” or “conservative” — or, for that matter, “centrist” — far, far more than thinking in terms of “black” or “white,” or “Latino,” etc.

    Mark (411533)

  183. Race is another word for your extended family. It is clear their are attributes of the extended white family that don’t apply to certain other races, among them higher iq and a greater willingness to defer gratification.

    Comment by Chris — 8/28/2011 @ 1:33 pm | (Ignore this user)

    Chris, what was your ACT score? Did you even graduate HS? This mixed-breed scored a 34, 33, 29, 29 for a 31 Composite back in the 1980s when the max was 35 instead of the 36 it is now and the questions hadn’t yet been dumbed down. And I almost retook the blasted thing because I was embarrassed by the 29s.

    Oh, and how do you account for the Asians and Jews who routinely score higher as a group than the “Aryans”? Or why white supremacists are so chock-full of C/D-graded high school transcripts?

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  184. ________________________________________________

    Our nations ancestors understood that race mixing was destructive and wrong.

    You’re pathetic because I bet you’re the type who instead of voting for someone like, say, a Herman Cain would pull the lever for a Hillary Clinton, or John Kerry, or Al Gore — or some obscure third-party candidate — or would shake your head and sit out the election.

    Mark (411533)

  185. “Seal the border, deport illegal immigrants, end birthright citizenship, reduce legal immigration drastically. That would be a good start.”

    Chris – Do the math. What you suggest only delays the inevitable loss of white majority you cherish so deeply. What are your real plans? Do you propose a Chinese type solution for black, yellow and brown people or similar mechanisms?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  186. It is clear their are attributes of the extended white family that don’t apply to certain other races, among them higher iq and a greater willingness to defer gratification.
    Comment by Chris — 8/28/2011 @ 1:33 pm

    Notwithstanding the bunk about higher iq, you’d think somebody who touts the intellectual superiority of the white race would know the difference between “their” and “there”.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  187. You people are living in a dream world if you think conservatism will survive in a non white US. Minorities WANT to redistribute income to themselves. Why do you ignore this?

    Chris (b0fa47)

  188. Chris, the KKK was founded as the terrorist arm of the Democrat party. They assassinated Republican politicians and other Republicans. They targeted blacks because blacks were, after all, Republicans.

    The whole of American history refudiates your demented lies about supposed “racial purity”. Seriously, man, why do you hang around to get destroyed by an intellectually, morally, logically superior half-breed when you can go rot in your racist cesspool instead?

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  189. Chris really should ignore all traffic lights since they were invented by the ever-dangerous darkie, and we all know darkie never wants to do us any good. Right, Chris? Pissant go home.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  190. What exactly is so wrong with supporting your race?

    Because it’s a meaningless concept. My race can no more use my “support” than can my thumb-size or the degree to which I like olives.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  191. John, the fact that you yourself are capable and intelligent is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Intelligence is on a bell curve so you can always find individual minorities just as capable as intelligent whites. What matters is the AVERAGE capability of whites and non whites because that effects the overall distribution of intelligence. Also, I have never denied that east Asians and Jews have higher iqs then whites.

    Chris (b0fa47)

  192. I find legal immigration to be a wonderful thing that we need more of, and should change laws to ensure more of.

    Ditto.

    I only ask that the immigrant speak the language (English), obey all the laws, and be employed in a skilled profession.

    100 years ago, none of my ancestors spoke a word of English. They learned when they had to, because they had to. I don’t obey all the laws, and I don’t ask that anyone else do so either, so why would I ask it of immigrants? So long as they obey God’s laws, I don’t care whether they obey Congress’s. And why only a skilled profession? What if they haven’t got one; can’t they be productive as unskilled labourers? The main problem with immigration of unskilled people is welfare; so fix it at the source. Stop offering them welfare and they’ll stop taking it.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  193. Let me just sum up by saying: I have much more faith in what our ancestors thought of non whites than what some ivory tower liberals and marxists came up with and now force feed us.

    Chris (b0fa47)

  194. “Minorities WANT to redistribute income to themselves. Why do you ignore this?”

    Chris – Damn Asians are pretty uppity about it, aren’t they?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  195. Let me just sum up by saying

    Does that mean your tucking you’re tale between you’re racist leg’s and leaving? (intentionally written so you have a better likelihood of understanding)

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  196. “Let me just sum up by saying: I have much more faith in what our ancestors”

    Chris – Speak for yourself. You have offered no proof you share common ancestry with anyone here or in the U.S.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  197. Chris – My suggestion to you is to buy an island and populate it with the white people of your choosing and start your own breeding program. I’m sure stari would offer advice if he meets your purity standards.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  198. Chris – Do you see anything wrong with supporting your church?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  199. “The main problem with immigration of unskilled people is welfare; so fix it at the source. Stop offering them welfare and they’ll stop taking it.”

    The libertarian position is idiotic. The immigrants have kids, those kids are poor just like the immigrants, but they can vote. They vote in politicians that 1) look like them and 2) vote for income redistribution.

    My ancestors were fools for letting Milhouses ancestors in … look at where it has gotten us.

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  200. Also, I have never denied that east Asians and Jews have higher iqs then whites.
    Comment by Chris — 8/28/2011 @ 2:51 pm

    There you go again. The words “then” and “than” are not the same. Pretty telling in someone who touts the intellectual superiority of the white race. In other words, the rest of your White Power propaganda is similarly ignorant.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  201. “The whole of American history refudiates your demented lies about supposed “racial purity”. Seriously, man, why do you hang around to get destroyed by an intellectually, morally, logically superior half-breed when you can go rot in your racist cesspool instead?”

    I guess that’s why the first congress limited naturalization to “free, white persons” and require militia service of “free, white males”. Or read some of what Jefferson wrote about blacks. Or note that the same generation that fought the Civil War also passed one of our first immigration acts — the Chinese exclusion act.

    Your ‘whole of American history’ started about 1964.

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  202. My ancestors were fools for letting Milhouses ancestors in … look at where it has gotten us.
    Comment by stari_momak — 8/28/2011 @ 3:13 pm

    Maybe John Hitchcock’s ancestors were fools for letting yours in.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  203. Minorities WANT to redistribute income to themselves.

    Everyone wants to redistribute income to himself. Honest people try to do it only in honest ways. Dishonest people try to do it in dishonest ways. While you’re right about the racial distribution of intelligence, I’ve never observed a similar distribution of honesty. And as far as I’m concerned honesty is a far more important trait.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  204. Chris – Does your church preach racial purity and segregation?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  205. “Maybe John Hitchcock’s ancestors were fools for letting yours in.”

    Indeed they were…to the extent they ‘let us in’. I seem to remember 300 years of Indian wars.

    stari_momak (5fd7ae)

  206. Let me bounce something off you people. I think that underlying some of the arguments we hear from people like Chris is the assumption that intelligence is a trait that somehow matters more than other traits; that a person with more intelligence is somehow better than a person with less. Not better at any specific task, or for any specific purpose, just “better”. I suppose the idea is that since intelligence is what separates us from animals, the more of it we have the more “human” we are, and the less we have the more we are like animals. Which is obvious nonsense, once you drag the assumption out into the sunshine and look at it.

    Yes, intelligence is a fine trait to have. I’m happy that I’ve got lots of it. And I firmly believe that the main reason I have the IQ I do is my genetic makeup, which I inherited from my parents. A high IQ lets me do certain things that I enjoy, such as argue here. But there are other traits that are also mighty useful to have, and which my genes did not give me. Being tall is useful; I am not. Being athletic is useful; I am not. Having quick reflexes is very useful; I don’t. So am I “better” than someone with an IQ of 90 who is tall, athletic, and has quick reflexes? The only possible way to answer that question is to ask “better at what“? I’m better at some things, but a good deal worse at others. But humanity is a binary trait: one cannot be more or less human; one either is or isn’t. And I’m neither more nor less human than a newborn infant with Down’s Syndrome.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  207. “Maybe John Hitchcock’s ancestors were fools for letting yours in.”

    Indeed they were…to the extent they ‘let us in’. I seem to remember 300 years of Indian wars.

    Comment by stari_momak — 8/28/2011 @ 3:32 pm | (Ignore this user)

    Yup, a total fool and jackwagon who doesn’t even understand the concept of a bridgehead or the history of the early European settlements, since he wants to go all warrior-like.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  208. Milhouse

    I have – according to my family – in place of intelligence I am blessed with SDL

    Sheer dumb luck

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4)

  209. 100 years ago, none of my ancestors spoke a word of English. They learned when they had to, because they had to. I don’t obey all the laws, and I don’t ask that anyone else do so either, so why would I ask it of immigrants?

    I’m sure your ancestors are fine people. I have ancestors who were on the Mayflower on one side, and on my other side one parent didn’t speak much English until after he came to the states a few decades ago, already an adult.

    Language is essential for a society to work together. We need some kind of melting pot instead of multiple subcultures that are separated.

    It’s just a common convenience, for both born citizens and immigrants, that they speak a common language so we can all work together and live together.

    You’re obviously noting that people will naturally choose to speak the common language from self interest, so you don’t see the point in forcing it on them. I think in today’s world we need that extra push.

    Just my opinion.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  210. Daley our troll might want to go to Jeremiah Wrongs church they preach racial purity…………..they believe blacks are pure unless they dissent.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  211. I certainly understand a hesitation to give the government any social engineering agenda whatsoever.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  212. Dustin,

    Its interesting how the military – the volunteer military – has no need of social engineering – everyone is focused on the country

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4)

  213. I cant believe I agree with you.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  214. I cant believe I agree with you.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  215. EPWJ, that’s a good point.

    Some sort of common purpose would be nice. You’d think we’d all have worked that out by now.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  216. The Military…
    Yes, and some of the NCO’s actually speak a language that is quite similar to English, but is generally understood by everyone within earshot.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  217. “Let me just sum up by saying: I have much more faith in what our ancestors thought of non whites than what some ivory tower liberals and marxists came up with and now force feed us.”

    Chris – Do you also have more faith in the way your ancestors practiced medicine than it is practiced today?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  218. @ happyfeet (#69): I live in southwest Houston. I don’t know about WalMart, but not eight blocks from my house there’s a Walgreen’s whose books and magazines are almost all published in Spanish.

    Half a mile away is a Chevron station whose co-tenants are Western Union, Pizza Hut, and a private bus company that runs Monterrey-to-Houston and back several times daily (I presume this is mostly or entirely legal traffic). I often stop there for ice or gas, and the people I see aren’t “entirely unacculturated,” however, even though they’ve just come from Mexico. I think most of them are in Houston to enjoy life here. They may shop at Fiesta (again, products labeled in Spanish, with lots and lots of foods and goods you’d find south of the border) or they may shop at Rice Epicurean Market (big selection of artisan white-bread), but then again, I shop at both, so maybe I’m not fully acculturated either.

    Turn left and go fifteen blocks and you can find stores whose entire inventories are labeled in Vietnamese.

    And there’s a “Rent-a-Center” two blocks in another direction which does the sort of appliance sales you describe, in any of several languages, so long as you’re bringing American greenbacks.

    Maybe your Texas travels have been too limited.

    Beldar (8e755e)

  219. Does anybody know exactly how many illegal alien relatives Obama has living in the U.S.? Another one turned up in Boston living off the taxpayer that I had never heard of:

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/08/obamas-illegal-alien-uncle-onyango-hits-cop-car-drunk-asks-to-call-white-house/

    I don’t think Deval Patrick is going to be sending Barack any bills though.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  220. As EPWJ points out, the “answer” to the “us” and “them” of society is when the most important considerations are thought of as “us”. While there was racism in the armed forces in WW-II, there was also much than transcended racism, and even evidence of the lack of racism among some. I remember a story of a white officer who was shocked to find that the on-base officers’ club wouldn’t admit African Americans (maybe the Tuskegee Airmen). The fellow wouldn’t/couldn’t believe the reluctance and talked some of the Black airmen into accompanying him, where he was truly shocked.

    From what I know of the era, this is one thing that King and others championed that made them so powerful, they wanted fair treatment for everybody, rather than pitting group against group. Again, from what I know, part of what turned out to be a fatal parting of ways for Malcolm X and the nation of Islam movement was when he stopped seeing things so much as a black/white division and became critical of the hypocrisy of Elijah mohammed and others.
    (Alternative views/corrections welcomed).

    So will Europe go from the extreme of the past — of aggressive, chauvinistic nationalism — to another extreme of today or the future? – Mark

    I was reading about the current dismal state of denying the typical citizen the right of self-defense in England. It’s as if the Churchillian stand and tyranny was from another planet- one would think that “Invasion of the Body Snatchers” was a documentary, and that Thatcher and Blair, even, were among the last Brits whose identities had not been assumed by aliens.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  221. “Maybe your Texas travels have been too limited.”

    Beldar – We even have ethnic neighborhoods in Chicago. Imagine that!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  222. @ stari_momak(#89 — 8/28/2011 @ 7:06 am): You wrote:

    Funny thing is, very few people ever challenge me on facts — I’ve been to the Alamo, I’ve read the names. Anglos virtually all of them.

    I challenge you on facts.

    Here’s a list of the defenders of the Alamo. A good point was made earlier that one can’t be sure at all of ethnicity from surname alone, because there was already a lot of intermarriage (e.g., Jim Bowie’s wife was the daughter of the former governor and alcalde). But names that appear to me at a glance to probably be of Hispanic origin include:

    Juan Abamillo; Juan A. Badillo; Antonio Cruz y Arocha; Alexandro de la Garza; José Gregorio Esparza; Salvador Flores; Antonio Fuentes; Brigido Guerrero; Damacio Jiménez; Toribio Losoya; Andrés Nava; and Juan Seguín (left to seek reinforcements).

    That’s over 10% of the total number of defenders. And there were also a handful of black men among the defenders; they didn’t have Hispanic surnames, but they certainly weren’t Anglo.

    So your characterization of these names as “virtually all” being “Anglo” is simply false.

    And let me ask you this, if you’re up on Texas history: What flag did the defenders of Texas fly over the Alamo?

    Keep in mind that Texas’ Declaration of Independence didn’t come until March 2, 1836, and when Santa Anna mounted his final assault on the Alamo on March 6th, none of the defenders even knew of that act.

    If you had to google this, color me unimpressed with your knowledge of Texas history, sir or ma’am.

    Beldar (8e755e)

  223. (Meant to say “defenders of the Alamo” instead of “defenders of Texas” there.)

    Beldar (8e755e)

  224. Here’s a big hint: It wasn’t the famous “Lone Star” flag.

    Beldar (8e755e)

  225. Hmm, I submitted a comment that I don’t see. I’ll assume it got caught in moderation for some reason.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  226. Channeling my inner happyfeet, I think we may have a President who was not vetted, who may not be that smart and who has no idea what he is doing surrounded by really smart people who are the same.

    Then, we have a credentialed class of media that bought into his vapid rhetoric because they were already invested in the same.

    So we have a whole lot of people invested in the idea of the perfect President trying to find some way to maintain a myth over the actual.

    It’s sad and funny at the same time.

    Ag80 (9a213d)

  227. I think my 10% figure above (#226) is high because I didn’t count reinforcements when I was calculating it. Nevertheless, “virtually all” is still a completely inaccurate characterization.

    Beldar (8e755e)

  228. http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/tejanopatriots.htm

    So, you know, Mr. Texas history person, shut up.

    Not you, Beldar.

    Ag80 (9a213d)

  229. The libertarian position is idiotic. The immigrants have kids, those kids are poor just like the immigrants, but they can vote. They vote in politicians that 1) look like them …
    Comment by stari_momak — 8/28/2011 @ 3:13 pm | (Ignore this user)

    I just wanted to point this out. Those horridible immigrantses is poor and their kidses is poor and voters. That’s part of why we can’t let them immigrantses in. Cause the dumb darkies is gonna vote. Oh, and those dumb darkies is gonna vote for darkies cause they’re darkies and we can’t let that happen. We white folks need to vote for white folks cause the white folks are white and look like us, not like those darkies those dumb darkies are gonna vote for because we don’t like it when dumb darkies vote for people that look like them.

    Stupid boy left the irony on.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  230. OT, but the report is out on the Bradley/Prosser altercation. Bradley badly needs to be impeached, recalled, or at least tarred and feathered.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  231. Another OT–

    Don’t miss the brilliant Contessa Brewer’s final daily newscast as anchor–tomorrow.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/media-blog/275711/contessa-brewer-out-msnbc-greg-pollowitz

    elissa (c6b43d)

  232. ________________________________________________

    I have much more faith in what our ancestors thought of non whites…

    Your comments remind me of how various people become so resentful or indignant towards some outsider or perceived non-conformist (eg, person from a foreign nation or different race), that they begin to scapegoat. I’ve seen a love of scapegoating among lots of liberals, but there’s a glaring version of it happening in today’s era among certain people (who generally can be described as having rightwing sentiments) in fundamentalist communities associated with the Islamic religion. Almost all the terrorists of the Middle East, or in pockets of Islamicism throughout the globe, just love to scapegoat Israel or the Western World.

    This sums it up overall…

    Pajamamedia.com, Barry Rubin:

    Conspiracy theories and scapegoating are central to the Arabic-speaking world’s debates. But there are many lessons for the West from that malady. Unfortunately, the wrong lesson has been drawn: Let’s copy them!

    …[A]long came various Marxists, radical nationalists, and political con men (Barack Obama’s father was one of them) who argued that underdevelopment wasn’t a malady based on long history, social backwardness, and bad policies but rather was a crime perpetrated by the West. In this vision, what was needed was to confiscate domestic wealth from private hands and — even more important — battle the evil West’s exploitation.

    One solution was a form of global welfarism, endless payments from the West to make up for its imperialism. New crimes were also invented (global warming — whether or not that is a real phenomenon, it is ridiculous to make it the basis for transfer payments) to demand reparations.

    Literally millions of people have died or suffered because they were run over while going down this wrong road.

    Note that the countries that have done the best in recent years — India, China, South Korea, for example — threw this scapegoating notion into the garbage basket. Those that continue to whine rather than work to fix their problems are becoming basket cases.

    I’ve been told directly by an Arab friend who had been to China the following story that he claims is true:

    Arab visitor: “How do you Chinese deal with the fact that you suffered so much from foreign invasion and imperialism?”

    Chinese official: “We got over it.”

    ^ I’ve been observing a desire to scapegoat among some of the people in my workplace (who just so happen to be of the left), and I notice that same behavior among certain folks of rightist bent. Namely people who I’d describe as chauvinistically pro-American but who also are currently sore-headed about the rise of Asia.

    I’d say that a variety of liberals and rightwingers both have a tendency to never “get over it.” However, the nature of scapegoating is more innate to liberals, since people on the left often are way more screwed up in how they judge the good and bad in people and situations. And that alone makes scapegoating far more likely to occur.

    Mark (411533)

  233. Ag80, that’s a good site, I think I’ve linked it before.

    The whole story here has always been more complicated, subtle, and personal than most non-Texans think. Like the rest of human history, Texas’ includes both ugly and ennobling events and people. But every time I hear someone spouting cliches to me about how the Texas revolution was just a Yankee land grab/slave-state plot, I ask them that question about the flag at the Alamo, and then about some of the violations of constitutional liberties that motivated many of the Texians (both Anglo & Hispanic).

    Beldar (8e755e)

  234. I highly recommend, on the general subject of the Texas revolution, H.W. Brand’s Lone Star Nation: How a Ragged Army of Volunteers Won the Battle for Texas Independence — and Changed America (2004). (Link benefit’s Patterico’s Amazon Associates account.)

    Beldar (8e755e)

  235. “benefit’s”? … oh, Beldar …. :(

    Beldar (8e755e)

  236. “…there are only two races, the decent and the indecent…”
    -Dennis Prager

    Comment by Another Drew – Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! — 8/28/2011 @ 1:22 pm

    That’s what I like about Prager, clarity. I’m still uncomfortable seeing signs that I can’t read.

    Tanny O'Haley (12193c)

  237. Let me just sum up by saying: I have much more faith in what our ancestors thought of non whites than what some ivory tower liberals and marxists came up with and now force feed us.
    Comment by Chris — 8/28/2011 @ 2:56 pm

    — Three-fifths of a person; right, mein Herr?

    Icy Texan (8f4d4b)

  238. Icy – I think Chris and stari are both butt hurt they missed the opportunity to own slaves in this country.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  239. Beldar, unless Patrick has a deal with Amazon through an address in another state, his association has been cancelled due to the kerfuffel over sales-tax collection on internet sales, since CA counts Associates as a physical presence by Amazon within the state, requiring the collection of the tax.
    Since I bought something from Amazon just last week, I can assure you that they did not collect a sales/use tax from this CA resident on that purchase.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (57de9e)

  240. Okay Beldar, I’ll change ‘virtually all’ to ‘the overwhelming majority” — I think that’s a fair characterization of 85%.

    stari_momak (baa2f9)

  241. Patterico, this is just a symptom of a problem I expect to grow, especially if we get a simple budget cap and balance amendment. The Feds cost shift to the states. This is an outrage now. Imagine what it could become with a little effort by progressive lawmakers.

    {^_^}

    jbd (99eed4)

  242. Something tells me that our two monochromatic commenters have old “Prussian Blue” CDs. Again, the old ones.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  243. Is this thread still going? Well, alright then…

    “Icy – I think Chris and stari are both butt hurt they missed the opportunity to own slaves in this country.”

    Speaking for myself, exactly wrong. Slavery was bad not only because of the moral reasons (and remember, it was universally accepted until white men, British division, decided to abolish it). It was bad for white people. Little known fact — many Caribbean islands had white majorities until the cheap labor lobby (spiritual ancestors of the pro-mass immigration wing of the Republican party) decided to import African slaves. Of course, many of those whites were virtual slaves themselves. Anyhoo, to bring it back to American context, those free soilers were a bunch of white guys that didn’t want to compete with African labor. Heck, staunchly abolitionist, Yankee stock Oregon outlawed blacks from settling in its territory in its first constitution.

    “Here’s a big hint: It wasn’t the famous “Lone Star” flag.”

    I don’t even have to look this up. It was a Mexican flag with ‘1824’, a reference to the 1824 Mexican constitution. I fail to see the relevance.

    “– Three-fifths of a person; right, mein Herr?”

    Uh, you do realize the the 3/5 compromise actually *reduced* the Southern slaveholder’s power, don’t you? The plantation owners wanted to count their slaves as, in your terms, full persons (who of course couldn’t vote, like many white men of the time). The Northern anti-slavery faction didn’t want slaves to count at all. I know history can be complex, but try to work through this slowly. Slave holders, count all blacks, Northerners, count no blacks. Had to latter won, we’d be talking about the blacks as non-persons.

    Mr. Hitchcock — do you really mean to deny the fact of ethnic/racial block voting. Do you really deny the existence of the “Congressional Hispanic Caucus”? Do you really believe that that politicians from Hispanic districts don’t lean more towards welfare transfer payments than those from majority white districts? All your insulting language and putting words in my mouth doesn’t change the facts.

    Let me give you an example I love to give my Leftie friends

    http://www.historichighlandpark.org/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=212

    Peters has lived here for 18 years, and she is the kind of activist that leaves you thinking, “I’m glad somebody does that stuff around here, and I’m glad it’s not me.” That morning, she walked in to hear another activist spitting through a description of a corrupt, racist politician who takes illicit money from developers. “I thought, ‘My God, who is she talking about?’ ” Peters said. “Eventually it dawned on me, ‘She’s talking about me!’ ”

    Peter was a classic ‘progressive’ whitey, but was voted out of office because Latinos became the majority in her area.

    From the other side of the spectrum, take a look at what happened to Robert ‘B-1 Bob’ Dornan in Central Orange County California. Because of demogrphic changes, i.e. the huge influx of Mexicans, he was voted out in favor of Democrat Loretta Sanchez.

    stari_momak (baa2f9)

  244. “Something tells me that our two monochromatic commenters have old “Prussian Blue” CDs. Again, the old ones.”

    No, but I do have Black Flag’s (Don’t wanna be a ) “White minority”.

    And from the little I’ve seen of Prussian blue, they are far more wholesome than Lady Gaga or Beyonce.

    stari_momak (f41994)

  245. Hey Ag80, interesting link. Not surprisingly, most of the portraits show men who look to be 100% Spanish — not Mexican — Spanish.

    http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/zavalatribute.htm

    Doesn’t surprise me because I took CCD from a scion of an old Californio family (the Yorbas), and with his dirty blond hair, the guy was whiter than me. The priest that settled the SW for Spain, Father Kino, was a German for God’s sake. Here in California, Portola and Serra were Catalans — probably didn’t even speak Spanish as their first language. Fact is that that the ‘Mexicans’ who were in the SW before the US took over have about zero to do with the peasants from Central Mexico who are arriving today.

    stari_momak (f41994)

  246. “…the guy was whiter than me…”

    So gosh, maybe we shouldn’t listen to you at all, as you dilute and mongrelize our culture, huh?

    Seriously, you are either a bizarre troll, or you need some medical attention.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  247. @ stari_momak: Dude, now you’re just incoherent. I’m adequately persuaded of your trolldom, so I banish you from my further perception or conversation.

    Beldar (8e755e)

  248. Don’t worry, Beldar. I’m sure he has the uniform and everything. And sings “Tomorrow Belongs to Me” in the shower.

    Seriously, I don’t know if he could be that disordered, or if it is more crazoid trollery.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  249. Another Drew (#244): Thanks, I hadn’t quite put two and two together on that yet. As if I needed further reason to be annoyed with Jerry Brown.

    Beldar (8e755e)

  250. “so I banish you from my further perception or conversation”

    I’m heartbroken…but I’ll wait with baited breath for more stimulating discussions of copyright law.

    stari_momak (f41994)

  251. “mongrelize our culture”

    Again with the ‘m’-word. I think you guys are projecting.

    stari_momak (f41994)

  252. I think you are late for your lodge meeting, stari. Beware that one drop rule!

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  253. Oh, and stari? Here is some of that wholesome Prussian Blue for you.

    http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Aryan-Man-Awake-lyrics-Prussian-Blue/5E89BA3B121E49E8482570A60005AAC7

    You can even get this as a ringtone, dude!

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  254. ____________________________________________

    That morning, she walked in to hear another activist spitting through a description of a corrupt, racist politician who takes illicit money from developers. “I thought, ‘My God, who is she talking about?’” Peters said. “Eventually it dawned on me, ‘She’s talking about me!’”

    Observing bigotry and pettiness among a bunch of people is always sickening. But observing it among those on the left — ranging from “progressive” to ultra-liberal — truly epitomizes why so many of them often are guilty of limousine liberalism, of being two-faced and self-destructive.

    Regardless of one’s politics, the phenomenon of people voting with both their feet and pocketbook has made and unmade neighborhoods, cities and entire societies.

    Many people of Christine Peters’ ilk and living situation — assuming they’re not single and childless for life — often will send their kids to private schools, so they’ll already be treating a facet of their community at arm’s length.

    So will Peters in particular eventually become so alienated and frustrated by the socio-political dynamics in her section of Los Angeles, she packs up her stuff and moves out?

    Sociological studies and US Census statistics indicate this society remains far more segregated — decades following civil-rights laws and a positive change in most people’s attitudes about diversity — than one would have assumed would be the case if one were predicting the future (of 2011) back in, for example, the 1960s.

    The thing that irks me the most about liberals like Peters is when they out of exasperation towards the harsh aspects of urban America (or blue-state places like California) do vote with their feet and move from one area to another and bring their politics with them. And in so doing, screw up the socio-political stability of their adopted new community and begin the vicious cycle all over again.

    As for the people someone like Peters leaves behind, they may say “good riddance and don’t let the door hit you on the way out!” But what pisses me off is when they also start whining about the prosperity and stability of this society passing them by. In effect, they become like the fools in the Middle East who believe their lot in life — their lack of achievement and advancement — is due to Western imperialism or the existence of Israel.

    Mark (411533)

  255. ________________________________________________

    Do you really believe that that politicians from Hispanic districts don’t lean more towards welfare transfer payments than those from majority white districts?

    But all people of the left — be they white, Latino, black, Asian, Jewish, Christian, secular, gay, straight, bi, native-born or immigrant — won’t mind that one bit. Don’t assume that the folks who are feeding off the most from the government’s teat will change the political preferences of anyone who naturally gravitates towards a love of and respect for the public sector and a belief that only the wonderful bureaucracy and its politicians (but from the Democrat Party only) can help one’s fellow man.

    Mark (411533)

  256. stari_momak:
    Speaking for myself, exactly wrong.
    — In your case this would be the rule, not the exception.

    Slavery was bad not only because of the moral reasons (and remember, it was universally accepted until white men, British division, decided to abolish it). It was bad for white people.
    — Thank God for the “white men” that decided to abolish the thing they controlled. We should completely forgive them their prior acceptance of, and participation in, the practice of slavery, especially since it was bad for them. Poor, oppressed white people! 

     Little known fact — many Caribbean islands had white majorities until the cheap labor lobby (spiritual ancestors of the pro-mass immigration wing of the Republican party) decided to import African slaves.
    — Nobody puts the words “little known” and “fact” together like our stari!

    Icy Texan (8f4d4b)

  257. Democrat Loretta Sanchez

    this nitwit bimbo
    and her hermana soiled
    Katella high school

    ColonelHaiku (0ab8c6)

  258. We white folks need to vote for white folks cause the white folks are white and look like us, not like those darkies those dumb darkies are gonna vote for because we don’t like it when dumb darkies vote for people that look like them.

    Stupid boy left the irony on.

    Comment by John Hitchcock —

    Hahahahahaha

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  259. Speaking of the OC’s Little-Loretta, I see that she just remarried; and I also note that in a comparitive ranking of congresskritters in CA, where Chuck Devore is rated 100% Conservative, and Babs Boxer and DiFi are at 0%, Loretta ranks a great big 7%! You Go Girl!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (69a267)

  260. Beldar — 8/28/2011 @ 7:33 pm,

    I have similar experiences out here in West Texas, although on a smaller scale. There are several predominantly Spanish language establishments — including a large grocery store — and a few that cater to Asians. But my perception is many of the people who weren’t born to English-speaking families are nevertheless assimilating. I also agree with Ted Cruz that Hispanics are natural Republicans:

    [Cruz] believes Hispanics are — by reasons of faith, industriousness and patriotism — natural Republicans. He says the military enlistment rate is higher among them than among any other demographic, and he says an Austin businessman observed, “When was the last time you saw a Hispanic panhandler?”

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  261. “When was the last time you saw a Hispanic panhandler?”

    hmm

    Good point.

    The thing is, I truly believe to understand conservatism is to become conservative. And we live in the information age. That’s why the Tea Party happened and why the right isn’t dying out post 2006 and 2008.

    It’s just a matter of informing people who care about their families and kids and grandkids and want a decent country for them. Trying to game one race off another is just not a workable tactic unless you are a liberal planning on using other people’s money for goodies.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  262. Per Patterico, both stari_momak and chris are in moderation and are on warning. Their comments may not appear in a timely manner (or at all, depending on content), so any delay in answering may not be under their control. They are not banned and can be taken out of moderation if either of them demonstrates a pattern of good-faith comments.

    This means (my phrasing) that they should knock off the racial propaganda and negative stereotyping of minorities and/or Jews. It doesn’t matter how much they believe what they say is true, or even if it is. The racial bomb-throwing has poisoned the discussion and this is not the forum for it. By crossing the line repeatedly, both of them have lost the platform to make points of this nature.

    If this is objectionable, I invite them to explore the larger world outside this site to find like-minded souls to exchange views and provide mutual support for one another. Or they could go somewhere decent.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  263. Gee, where did that come from (Heh!)?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (69a267)

  264. Which is chinese for bite me.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  265. Here. Here.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  266. Or rather Hear, hear.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  267. Stashiu3 – Thank you sir. Save for the Democrat party and some supporters of people such as Ron Paul, America has been very successful in marginalizing the views of people such as Chris and stari over the past 50 years. Other than a brief glimpse to show that unfortunately such people still exist, I agree that there is no reason to give them a continuing forum.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  268. Little late to the party here but just finished reading the comments and it was very heartening to see the visiting racists get jumped all over. Moderation’s the icing on the cake.

    As someone implied upthread, both Mobys trying to make conservatives look racist, and liberals who actually are racist, are too common. Nice to see more conservatives lately at conservative-leaning sites not letting either group get away with it.

    no one you know (325a59)

  269. Joe Bite Me biden can go suck on Obamas stimulus.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  270. Awww, so sorry to “hear” that, stash. I was having fun stomping them into the dirt. But I guess Patterico wants an actual sane thread-line where reasonable people can discuss and debate. Too bad.

    (insert sarc tags where you deem appropriate)

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  271. Ahem.

    Given that race is one of the most talked about subjects in the United States of America, it seems disappointing and odd that anyone would want to restrict debate over it.

    Rather than the “poisoning” the discussion, I believe it has invigorated it. People can see both sides of the argument and judge for themselves who are right and who are wrong.

    I would humbly request a precise understanding of what is meant by “bomb-throwing” and “racial propaganda” I would like to be enlightened as to how arguments need to be better crafted in order to comply with the above stated procedures.

    Thank you.

    Chris (5fc583)

  272. Comment by Chris — 8/29/2011 @ 12:45 pm

    Your belief about poisoning the debate is not in question. It’s what others believe that is relevant. You want to debate racial superiority? Do it elsewhere.

    Since you still need enlightenment after the last two threads, you apparently would ignore it anyway since it’s been pointed out to you repeatedly. Here’s how you can comply… stay away from race completely. Zero racial content. That’s the part about “lost the platform to make points of this nature”.

    You want to object to that? See my invitation above.

    If this is objectionable, I invite them to explore the larger world outside this site to find like-minded souls to exchange views and provide mutual support for one another. Or they could go somewhere decent.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  273. Chris, like dog manure on the sole of my shoe, you have “invigorated” my day.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  274. “Chris, like dog manure on the sole of my shoe, you have “invigorated” my day.”

    SPQR – Well played, sir.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  275. The KKK was not racist, they just invigorated discussion of races and jooooooooooooos.

    JD (318f81)

  276. I know Patterico is extremely reluctant to inhibit the discussion and it is a bright point of this site, but thank you. Thank you very much. Bigotry and racism have cost me too much in my working life and I hate it with a passion reserved for little else.

    Any government that sorts it’s citizens by race for legal consideration is anathema to this country’s basic principles. (Please note the use of the word “citizens” as it is not used by accident and is essential for the meaning of what I said.)

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  277. Al Queada has invigorated the discussion about Islam.

    Wonder if twitter has a #invigoratedthediscussion hashtag? Not really sure how that works.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  278. “. It doesn’t matter how much they believe what they say is true, ?or even if it is.

    And that get’s to the rub. As a big believe in the right to free association, and in property rights, I have no complaint with Patterico banning or ‘moderating’ or whatever. I will point out that the name calling, etc. has not been on my part. Likewise the bad faith arguments, false accusations, putting words in others’ mouths, etc.

    I am quite satisfied that I am a decent human being and that I am fighting for an important principle. Judging solely from the rhetorial techniques used by some people on this forum I’d say I am perhaps more decent than they (though I make allowances for standard internet behavior). It appears that Stashiu3 and others cannot abide the thought that someone would disagree with them on race issues and would seek to have them banned for arguing in good faith. I find it astounding that someone would be banned for actually caring about their heritage, including their biological heritage. I find it sad that some many people of European decent don’t care, but it is sadder still that those like Stashiu3 would silence the voices of those they disagree with. He apparently cares not a whit for our Enlightenment heritage either — but maybe once you abandon your people in the biological sense, it is an easy step to abandoning their greatest achievements.

    stari_mmak (bed168)

  279. “My people” are those who believe in our founding principles and want America to live up to them. I would much prefer to be “Stashiu3’s people” rather than “Your people”.

    I care nothing for color or ethnic origin. I believe our country has benefited greatly from hybrid vigor both physically, and culturally.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  280. No one has been silenced.

    You and the other bigot have been allowed to drop your racist ideology repeatedly on multiple threads. There comes a time when there is nothing new being said and no further purpose in smelling up the place. You have made your views clear.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  281. It appears that Stashiu3 and others cannot abide the thought that someone would disagree with them on race issues and would seek to have them banned for arguing in good faith.
    Comment by stari_mmak — 8/29/2011 @ 3:27 pm

    Oh, I was so hoping that one of you would make this accusation. I was the one who suggested moderation and a warning instead of banning. Now, I get to be called (in effect) a race-traitor. Or does “abandon your people in the biological sense” mean something nice? In your eyes, I guess it’s possible you’d think so.

    Apparently, this was too subtle for you.

    When nearly every comment a person makes has something negative about blacks and/or jews, it’s not a difficult task to reach accurate conclusions about them.
    You and Chris can both fuck off.

    You’re not silenced, you’re moderated. You’re not banned, you’re moderated. The reason you’re not silenced or banned is because I thought you should have a chance to repair (in the military sense of the term). How does that sit with you? Did I make a mistake? We’ll see I guess.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  282. What Mac said… +1.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  283. “There comes a time when there is nothing new being said and no further purpose in smelling up the place. You have made your views clear.”

    Other than the ‘smelling up the place’ remark I agree with you, which is why I stopped posting on this thread.

    I unfortunately broke down and checked in and i find that Stashiu3 has gone running to Patterico to get Chris and I (probably) banned, and come back with sort of censure type thing.

    [note: released from moderation, as was the last one (obviously). –Stashiu]

    stari_mmak (bed168)

  284. Stari is kind of slow. Must not have his eye holes cut out of his pillowcase properly.

    JD (318f81)

  285. @Stashiu3

    I suspected that you went to Patterico to have Chris and I banned, if that is not the case, I apologize.

    And no I don’t think in terms of ‘race traitor’ — I do think in terms of ‘race agnostic’, people who just don’t care (which is the majority of white Americans, at least in their public expressions).

    I am ending this here.

    [note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]

    stari_mmak (bed168)

  286. @ Simon (#253): Thank you for the belly laugh. I’ve been whistling “Tomorrow Belongs to Me” for the last 24 hours, too.

    Beldar (8e755e)

  287. For those who didn’t get it, Simon’s allusion was to Tomorrow Belongs to Me, from the Broadway show and movie Cabaret.

    Beldar (8e755e)

  288. Ya know, when someone changes his moniker specifically to get around a moderation filter, that is (or should be) a bannable offense right there. So ip-ban the pissant racist moron. No sarc, no joke. Ban the prig.

    John Hitchcock (7af282)

  289. I am breaking my silence to say that I didn’t ‘change my moniker’ — in fact I assume most savvy blog owners ‘ban’ by IP address — or else how would sock puppets be detected? But maybe I am getting too technical for Mr. Hitchcock…

    Anyhow, I had cleared my history earlier today and had to retype my name, which I did quickly so as not to waste more time here. (As I

    You people really are paranoid, with your theories about changed names and liberal trolls impersonating ‘racists’ and the like.

    Now you all can go on with your normal bashing.

    [note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]

    stari_momak (bed168)

  290. So basically what you are saying is that myself and stari can’t post anything racially related while at the same time there are no similar restrictions on other people, including liberals calling conservatives racist?

    I find it deeply depressing that you feel the need to “banish” us as if we we were being disruptive trolls instead of making a coherent argument backed by facts and reason. Obviously, you disagree, but isn’t that what politics is about?

    [note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]

    Chris (5fc583)

  291. I just arrived. WOW! What a saga! I have such respect for you folks – no need to name names, you know who you are. Heroes, one and all.

    felipe (2ec14c)

  292. I do think in terms of ‘race agnostic’, people who just don’t care

    While you think this is a bad thing, I m proud of the fact that I just don’t care.

    JD (318f81)

  293. According to stari if you have racists in your family tree, you must continue to be a racist or you have abandoned your heritage, or something.

    I am unaware of any slave owning, public racism, mental illness or retardation in my family tree, so I am not in the difficult position stari and Chris find themselves in. I can honor my ancestors with a clear conscience.

    I love their “the truth is not racist” and “facts are not hate” tripe straight from David Duke and the KKK. They may both bl*w me.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  294. So basically what you are saying is that myself and stari can’t post anything racially related while at the same time there are no similar restrictions on other people, including liberals calling conservatives racist?
    Comment by Chris — 8/29/2011 @ 4:46 pm

    Because you’ve never seen me admonish or moderate a liberal for calling people racist without cause, right? Seriously? Seen any version of imdw around lately?

    I don’t think I’ve been unclear here.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  295. I don’t know, Stashiu3. I think they are playing games.

    Why else would they call “Prussian Blue” “wholesome”?

    This is what I think is interesting: they claim that a right to “free speech” is being abrogated…on someone else’s blog.

    So…I recommend that they pick up a soapbox, and stand around in public parks holding forth.

    But that isn’t half as much fun as playing white supremacist here, electronically. Safer, too. When you say the sorts of things that they are saying in public, why, the public sometimes wishes to express itself in opposition.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  296. ______________________________________________

    I find it astounding that someone would be banned for actually caring about their heritage, including their biological heritage.

    I find it astounding, stari, that you very well could be among those not-minor number of people in this country who, based on various elections through the years, have actually plucked a chad or pulled a lever for a candidate similar to a John Kerry or Hillary Clinton instead of a person on the ballot along the lines of, say, Herman Cain. If you’re not one of those, then you can disregard the thrust of this post. But I have observed the type of people I’m describing through the years, and they’re a pretty pathetic, contemptible and foolish lot—and their rhetoric and much of yours pretty much mirrors one another.

    Mark (411533)

  297. “I don’t think I’ve been unclear here.”

    Stashiu3 – You have not been unclear at all. They just want to claim victim status, which is completely unwarranted.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  298. I know this won’t get through, but I just want to say how deceitful you are. Look at your statements above ‘you aren’t banned, you are moderated’. But obviously this was for you just a step toward banning.

    Again, as someone who believes in free association, patterico is within his rights, and if he wants to delegate that authority to a shrinking violent who can’t deal with views that contradict his own, cool with me (probably up my productivity slightly). But really, sir, you are totally deceitful.

    Finally, I’ll just leave you with a one of our fine African-American citizens representing our country so well abroad — in the Far East.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY0qXy_LQ3s&feature=player_embedded

    Cheers matey.

    stari_momak (bed168)

  299. stari_momak,

    I approved this comment so everyone could see why I (not Stashiu) made the decision to moderate you.

    I am glad you believe in freedom of association. That means, as you properly note, that you don’t have a leg to stand on when I decide not to associate with you — meaning that I choose not to allow your comments to appear when (as is generally the case) they address the topic of race that seems to obsess you so.

    You are welcome to choose to associate only with whites if you wish, and I am free to moderate you on my blog if I wish. If you truly believe freedom of association protects the former, you should not complain about the latter.

    Please understand that I am not frightened by your attitude towards blacks. I’m contemptuous of it. There is a difference.

    Your response, if any, will likely not appear. CENSORSHIP!!!!

    Patterico (f724ca)

  300. Personally I liked Chris’ & Stari’s remarks. I did not, have not concluded they were racists. This was a post about illegal immigration. I don’t visit or post comments much on this blog anymore because the regulars are mostly sanctimonious tyrants. Agree with their tangents and you are solid. Here, John Hitchcock perfected snark and PP pals groove-He proved he’s smart…his points are (?) Boy, that Chris guy is all wet about history, Texas…race…immigration….

    Are you all smoking meerschaum pipe in your dens, or what? Racist?…I am European/Middle Eastern & American Indian; not a racist. I’ve lived in Los Angeles since ’79. Giant areas and neighborhoods are identical to TJ and it aint pretty…go ahead…moderate yourself out of posters, go off- topic and jump all over those that are unwelcome in your clubhouse. I used to think Colonel H was witty and funny…now more snippy than clever. If one doesn’t agree with the dozen regulars here….you are bait or a troll. That is all.

    dudeabides (92dc64)

  301. But really, sir, you are totally deceitful.
    Comment by stari_momak — 8/30/2011 @ 6:59 pm

    Deceitful would have been to say “Zero racial content” and then not stick to it. I’ve been up front from the beginning. The White Power rhetoric is old and disruptive… and this is not the forum you seek for it. Chris complained (from spam) that “It really was not fair to ban me on try #1. If you thought the comment was inapropriate, you shouldn’t have approved it.”

    He apparently didn’t (and still doesn’t) understand that he is not on “try #1″. He was given his last chance to repair and failed. I approved his last one to show that he failed, so there would be no question of his failure, and no doubt that he brought his banning on himself.

    You can criticize me all you wish from the bleachers stari. I have to balance Patterico’s wish to have a free discourse against everybody else’s wish to have their points not disrupted by racist crap. I would rather have you both around and contributing, getting your points slapped down or supported as they deserve. That doesn’t mean it’s worth having good commenters stop posting because they’re tired of everything being turned into a White Power discussion.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  302. dudeabides,

    Chris said it was a mistake to give women the vote. Do you agree?

    Do you see stari’s video linked above as typical of blacks, as he apparently does?

    These guys have a history here. You may not be familiar with all of it. They are obsessed with race and I don’t like them. You, I recall as being rabidly anti-illegal immigration but not racist or sexist. I don’t paint everyone with the same broad brush.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  303. stari is just a whining coward. He plays the same song all over the internet. He wants to live apart, in a white country. Does he do anything about it? No, he just whines. Does he outline plans for what he wants? No, he doesn’t have the balls. He just whines.

    Nobody likes repetitive, whiny, cowards.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  304. I did not, have not concluded they were racists. This was a post about illegal immigration. I don’t visit or post comments

    I have concluded at least Chris is racist. Stari I never paid attention to so I can’t say.

    Chris is a textbook racist. He thinks your race determines your traits. So you’re wrong.

    I don’t think this blog is such an echo chamber. But it’s hard to disagree if you’re full of crap, as I’ve learned when my argument isn’t very strong. People will argue against you here, so if you aren’t up for it, it will seem pretty challenging. It’s healthy that way, IMO.

    There’s nobody regular here I can’t recall disagreeing with at some point.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  305. Schutzstaffel_marching spake:
    As a big believe(r) in the right to free association
    — Translation: “Hey, if you want to associate with n*****s that’s your problem.”

    and in property rights
    — “Stay off my lawn, n****r!”

     I will point out that the name calling, etc. has not been on my part. Likewise the bad faith arguments, false accusations, putting words in others’ mouths, etc.
    — One wonders how the other angels get any of their heavenly work done, given the huge amount of time they must spend kissing your divine feet. 

    I am quite satisfied that I am a decent human being and that I am fighting for an important principle.
    — Said principle being the exercise of your right to label a significant number of your fellow human beings as “indecent”.

    Judging solely from the rhetorial techniques used by some people on this forum I’d say I am perhaps more decent than they
    — And don’t forget “humble”; you are also more humble than the rest of us. Must be part of that master-race deal.

    maybe once you abandon your people in the biological sense, it is an easy step to abandoning their greatest achievements. 
    — Relegating ‘other’ people to second-class status being one of those great achievements; right?

    I do think in terms of ‘race agnostic’, people who just don’t care (which is the majority of white Americans, at least in their public expressions).
    — When you’ve looked at something, and have decided that it simply isn’t important to you, does this mean that you don’t care about that thing? 

    You people really are paranoid, with your theories about changed names and liberal trolls impersonating ‘racists’ and the like.
    — Not to worry. We know that you are the real deal: All racist, all the time. 

    I know this won’t get through
    — Shows what you know!

    Icy Texan (896c05)

  306. Chris dripped: I find it deeply depressing that you feel the need to “banish” us as if we we were being disruptive trolls instead of making a coherent argument backed by facts and reason.

    — You first, buddy. You first.

    Icy Texan (896c05)

  307. Are you all smoking meerschaum pipe in your dens, or what?

    You keep using that word “meerschaum pipe”; I do not think it means what you think it means.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  308. Chris is a textbook racist. He thinks your race determines your traits.

    Hang on there. Your genes do determine your traits; environment can modify them somewhat, by preventing you from reaching the maximum that your genes programmed you for, but genes are still the major factor in determining almost everything about you, both physically and mentally. Even so subtle a trait as your favourite colour, or whether you like or hate cilantro, is determined by your genes. And race heavily weights the odds on which genes you get. So race, to a great extent, and within limits, does determine your traits. Of course “races” are not physical entities, they’re sets with fuzzy boundaries, and their definitions change over time as the population they divide changes. I imagine that people like stari and Chris can’t handle the concept of fuzzy logic and mathematics; they probably think it’s a joke.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  309. genes are still the major factor in determining almost everything about you, both physically and mentally.

    I meant to add: except the thing that ultimately matter, which is your moral character. That you don’t get from your genes. Your genes determine your physical and mental traits; you determine what you do with them. Your genes may give you a taste for blood; you decide whether to exploit that trait for good by becoming a doctor or a solider, or for bad by becoming a criminal.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  310. I am quite satisfied that I am a decent human being and that I am fighting for an important principle.

    -Make no mistake, by fighting I mean whining on any blog that still lets me comment about the decline of the white race in America.

    maybe once you abandon your people in the biological sense, it is an easy step to abandoning their greatest achievements.

    -Yes, I am claiming that people who do not share my priorities have abandoned their heritage, illogical and stupid as it is for me to speak for other people and their motivations.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  311. Please understand that I am not frightened by your attitude towards blacks. I’m contemptuous of it. There is a difference.

    Your response, if any, will likely not appear. CENSORSHIP!!!!

    Comment by Patterico — 8/30/2011 @ 8:47 pm

    Bravo.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  312. Good job patterico.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  313. The rich leftys pay taxes when it is convenient.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  314. I do know what a meerschaum pipe is, Sherlock- I’ve never written that word before- so not sure how it is that I always use that word phrase….?

    funny Milhouse quote: …How could this happen? We started out like Romeo and Juliet but it ended up in tragedy……..

    Thanks for the inside scoop on (any) posters that are avowed bigots, that’s sooo 55 years ago.

    dudeabides (4af6f8)

  315. If you know what a meerschaum pipe is, then please explain your usage of it. Why would smoking one distort a person’s view of reality, and why would someone smoke it in a “den”?

    Milhouse (ee8a5d)

  316. geez- use your imagination Mr Literal, are you intentionally pixilated? Why are you hounding me abut this comment? Are you a bully boy on this blog? You sure seem like it….its working too.

    dudeabides (4af6f8)

  317. No, I too think that is a good question.
    Why did you use that term?
    What is unique about smoking a Meerschaum pipe, and why would it distort someone’s perception?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (588042)

  318. Meerschaum tobacco pipes only come from certain places, mostly Turkey and age uniquely with use. Certain famous literary characters used them, sometimes for illicit substances.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  319. geez- use your imagination Mr Literal, are you intentionally pixilated? Why are you hounding me abut this comment? Are you a bully boy on this blog? You sure seem like it….its working too.

    Comment by dudeabides —

    Don’t let it bug you. He’s a bit nit picky, but if you let it slide he’s also got some good points.

    I seem to recall you being a pretty clever commenter, so hopefully you’re not leaving.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  320. ILLEGAL ALIEN TAX RETURN FRAUD. THE WORD IS FINALLY OUT..?
    The IRS reported it has issued 10.8 million ITINs (Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers), with a very few being used by celebrities for book signing, foreign investors and whatever other reason? So at the most must leave roughly 10 million illegal aliens as heads of household that have arrived in violation of the law, hired as an infringement of the law, and using ITINs to skirt the law, since the program began in 1976. The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration on Thursday released an account, unveiling that the Internal Revenue Service, returned $4.2 billion dollars in refundable tax credits 2010 to illegal aliens. Using IRS ITIN numbers so illegal aliens are paying into the US taxation system, but are collecting in ‘earned income child tax credits,’ most of this money back. An illegal alien cannot qualify for a legitimate Social Security number, to file income tax returns, so they use the ITIN number issued by the IRS.

    This questionable program was intended to assuage that tax burden on the lowest American income earners, but in recent years has shown to be rife with fraud. President Obama’s stimulus program included tax cuts for low-income workers. Obama’s intention was, to put cash back into taxpayers’ hands, so they will spread it around to heighten the economy. But thanks to the (EITC) Earned Income Tax Credit, the majority of this “tax relief” will go to individuals who have never paid anything in taxes—NOT A DARN CENT—and have already defrauded prior administrations and today’s government in massive sums each year—to Illegal aliens. .” We the taxpayers are the gullible idiots who pay for their squatting here. The Inspector General said that the IRS should require those claiming the credit to prove that they are actually eligible to work here legally? However, IRS management “claims” that they have no legal power to request any proof with the inspection of individual income tax forms. A copy of the Inspector General’s report can be found here:

    http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.pdf

    An IRS audit showed that 72 percent of tax returns filed by those using (ITIN) taxpayer identification numbers and not a Social Security numbers claimed the child tax credit. Nearly all ITIN-based returns include W-2 forms that list Social Security numbers, belong to U.S. citizens, IRS data shows. Foreign Nationals use the stolen or fabricated Social Security numbers to gratify the employment necessities of businesses. In violation of the law, the ITIN numbers have also involved in using the IRS number as Identification to open bank accounts and obtain driver’s licenses and to vote.


    Illegal aliens as well as Americans are cheating the rest of the taxpayers, with Mothers filing under their Maiden name for perhaps two children, then the Father filing for the same two children as a different tax return under his family name and both receiving child refund tax return dollars. Of course, as always this is just the tip of the iceberg on fraudulent returns.

    The federal government is fleeced by sending tax checks to P.O. boxes and addresses in foreign countries.

    Frosty Woodbridge wrote for News with Views:

    “Your U.S. Congress participates in and supports one of THE most fraudulent taxpayer abuse schemes ever concocted within the Federal Government. It’s time the administration put its foot down rather than allow millions of unlawful immigrants to step onto American soil—while soaking billions out of the U.S. Treasury.

    Since the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) became part of the income tax code in 1975, it has quietly become the largest cash transfer program in the United States. At a cost of more than $44 billion per year, EITC spending dwarfs that of the traditional welfare program—Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)—and food stamps combined. More than 23 million households currently receive the credit.

    Edwin Rubenstein exposed one of the most dramatic tax frauds ever on the American taxpayer: “Defrauding the American taxpayer,” Volume 19, Number 3, spring 2009, Social Contract, “The Earned Income Tax Credit and Illegal Immigration – A Study in Fraud, Abuse, and Liberal Activism.”

    “More than one in four immigrant households received the EITC in 2000—nearly twice the 13.2 percent rate of house-holds headed by Native Americans. And because immigrant households are larger via higher fertility, their EITC payments are larger than those received by native households.

    “Bottom line: Immigrants accounted for about 13 percent of the U.S. population in 2008 but receive an estimated 26 percent of EITC benefits—about $12 billion.”
    The most distressing aspect of EITC stems from unlawful immigrants tapping into the program on a massive scale. For example, in Greeley, Colorado this year, district attorney Buck Young raided a tax filing agency to find over 1,000 fraudulent returns by unlawful workers. While they paid little or nothing in taxes, they received hundreds of thousands in bogus returns, costing taxpayers millions of dollars. That same scam multiplies all over the country.

    “Tax relief” goes to people who never paid a cent in taxes, and may have already defrauded the government of huge sums each year. “EITC scams are common, well-organized, and massive,” Rubenstein writes in the report. EITC ranks second out of 57 government programs in fraudulent payments.

    “But enthusiasm for the credit has blinded policy makers to its problems. The EITC program is dominated by fraud. Year after year about one-third of all EITC returns are based on illegal multiple returns, phony Social Security numbers, or claims of non-existent children or spouses. A disproportionate share of illegal alien households receives the benefit.

    “For most poor families, the tax credit check is the largest single sum of money they will receive during the year. Most receive it after filing income taxes. But some need the money immediately, and they can get it—for a price. A niche financial sector thrives by lending EITC recipient’s immediate cash in return for a hefty chunk of their credit check. The cost to the poor of these so-called Refund Anticipation Loans (RALs) has been estimated at 6 percent of the entire EITC program.

    The EITC is the most illegal-immigrant friendly of poverty programs; illegal immigrants constitute a far larger share of the poverty population now.

    Implication: The EITC is a textbook case of unintended consequences. Our economic meltdown may be among them.”

    There is only one cure for the corruption in federal agencies and that is joining the TEA PARTY. Thousands of fraudulent programs will be exposed and billions of dollars will be saved. This confronts the rot that has entered the Democratic and the Republican parties, and the astronomical deficit that America is suffering from. Read some unrevealed evidence at Judicial Watch, that is a legal non-profit, being There the opposite to the Communist backed ACLU; a panderer to the illegal alien invaders. In addition, NumbersUSA gives you in depth analysis of costs to taxpayers and insider news from Congress. Lastly, the controversial website of “American Patrol” gives you one-click Bridging editions to the nationwide media, where the truth prevails. It is no wonder that millions of illegal aliens can send $46 billion dollars a year to families, via foreign banks?

    1. Remember illegal aliens do vote in federal elections, and we all need to contact our politicians, to either issue an official to scrutinize voter rolls, or specifically absentee ballots.
    2. ISSUE a mandatory federal ID card, for all Americans.
    3. Make illegal entry punishable as a felony, not a civil offense.
    4. Build the real 2006 Double border Fence.
    5. The TEA PARTY will not tolerate illegal immigration or any form of amnesty, including Sanctuary cities, dream acts or covert enactments by disguising Immigration Reform.
    6. The TEA PARTY will support Arizona, Alabama, Georgia and other states against any retribution by the Democratic or Republican establishment.
    MY EARLIER BLOGS: http://brittanicus-enoughiseno

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    Brittanicus (d4f7cd)


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