Patterico's Pontifications

8/10/2011

Conversations with Puppets, Part 2 — A Post for the Casual Reader Who Usually Skips Weinergate Posts

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:54 pm

This is for those of you who don’t care about the post-Weinergate story. I want to see if I can explain in a brief post why you should.

Most of you, if you followed the Weinergate story at all, know that Weiner talked dirty to women online, sent out a bunch of pictures of his schwanz, lied about it badly, got caught, and resigned. End of story, right?

Except that, for a bunch of shadowy Internet figures who played significant roles in the original drama, it’s not over. And their identities and relationships are a mystery — as is the reason that they continue to push the story long after Weiner resigned.

First we have Dan Wolfe, aka PatriotUSA76. He is (supposedly) a man who claimed to hear rumors of a Congressman with compromising photos; fixated on Weiner’s habit of following young women; and took screencaps of the famous Weinertweet, during the few seconds when it was still up. But for him, we might never have found out about that famous tweet. He is a mysterious figure who steadfastly refuses to speak to anyone on the phone, and some have alleged that he is in fact a woman.

Then we have the Reids. Nikki Reid was (supposedly) a girl who chatted up almost every girl Weiner followed. She invited Weiner to go to prom. After the scandal broke, she and her “parents” seemingly attempted to turn the tide of public opinion in Weiner’s favor, by telling journalists about Dan Wolfe, and claiming that Wolfe had harassed her and other young women who followed Weiner. Only the New York Times revealed that the identification they had provided to a journalist was falsified — and nobody could determine who they were. Her dad John later emerged after Weiner had already resigned, ostensibly to reveal the communications that Weiner had allegedly had with Nikki and with Gennette Cordova. Those alleged communications were sent to yours truly. I have published some of them, and am about to publish the rest.

Who is Gennette Cordova? She was the person for whom the Weinertweet was seemingly intended. She had Weiner’s cell phone number, and was texting him as late as the day he admitted having sent the picture. What’s more, Gennette says that she and Weiner discussed the fact that Nikki was fake — and likely conservative troll Dan Wolfe — before she or Weiner ever talked to Nikki. (As it happens, I agree that Dan Wolfe and John Reid are the same person.) Then, apparently at the direction of Weiner, Gennette went and exchanged, by her own account, over a thousand direct messages and e-mails with Nikki. Despite this evidence of very close communication with Weiner — and despite the fact that Gennette is an attractive young female with intelligence and a flawless writing style — despite all this, Gennette, alone of all Weiner’s women to whom he sent salacious pictures, claims to have had no sexual relationship with him. She claims to have no idea why he sent her a picture of his underwear enclosing his erect penis.

And then there are Neal Rauhauser and Darrah Ford. Suffice it to say that the former has been repeating the slanders of a convicted bomber against me, even as he has devised crazed theories that my wife and I are behind the hacking of Weiner — a hacking which never happened, by Weiner’s own admission. The latter has long carried a huge vendetta against a man named Michael Stack, who worked with Wolfe to expose Weiner’s penchant for following young women on Twitter. Circumstantial evidence ties together Ford and Rauhauser — and also ties them to a man named Ron Brynaert, a former editor of a web site connected to the bomber. You haven’t heard the last of him.

And somewhere in all this — again after Weiner’s resignation — Mike Stack, blogger Ace of Spades, and I were threatened not to look into the activities of Gennette and Weiner. The threatening parties have gone much further than that, in fact, and the matter has been turned over to law enforcement. I am not revealing details, but when we catch the people who did it, I predict that they will go to prison.

Someone in this story has risked a great deal. Someone has a considerable investment in the story, even after Weiner’s resignation, to the point where they are willing to risk prosecution and prison time.

Maybe that doesn’t explain why you should care about this, but hopefully it gives you some idea why I care.

UPDATE: Struck out two words for accuracy’s sake. Thanks to Gennette.

217 Responses to “Conversations with Puppets, Part 2 — A Post for the Casual Reader Who Usually Skips Weinergate Posts”

  1. And comments are open!!!

    Patterico (f724ca)

  2. Often when there is that much threat and violence involved, there is also a great deal of money. So does anyone know if Weiner and/or Gennette were involved in anything unusually lucrative? (Please note that I am asking a question. It is pure speculation.)

    Sue (86c170)

  3. I think it is safe to say they were probably not exchanging stock tips… 😉

    Sue (86c170)

  4. Kinda buried the lede there.

    Karl (37b303)

  5. Patterico, Ace, Mike, and anyone else at risk in this matter – I am praying for safety and for speedy resolution by law enforcement. Take care.

    Sue (86c170)

  6. I just want to note that GenneTteC is a mendoucheous twatwaffle.

    JD (6e25b4)

  7. I just want to note that GenneTteC is a mendoucheous twatwaffle.

    Comment by JD — 8/10/2011 @ 7:18 pm

    I totally agree. What a huge “mendoucheous twatwaffle”.

    Ummm…

    Gennette (55c21d)

  8. You think Jen Preston will take interest in this story again? Or put this in the hands of someone with more investigative powers at the NYT than herself?
    Nahhhhh…… Who am I kidding?

    Auntie Fraud (2f38aa)

  9. efloW naD a gurl
    efloW a clue but naD part
    throw colonel for loop

    ColonelHaiku (d1f5ff)

  10. So, Patriot = Nikki = starchild = Mr. Reid = Mrs. Reid = Jenny = Janitor = The Plumbers = The Doobie Brothers = The Smothers Brothers = Brothers Typewriter Ribbon = Pabst Blue Ribbon = the blue dress = Prom Dress! OHHHohhh

    razor419 (42f6c5)

  11. More like Patriot = Nikki = starchild = Mr. Reid = Mrs. Reid

    Patterico (f724ca)

  12. Ron Brynaert is the guy I’m most interested in. We’ve all watched him melt down in public over Twitter and I’m hoping for some clues as to why.

    Bret (493d93)

  13. I think I know why. I don’t think they have been genuine meltdowns. I think they are an act.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  14. I think they are an act.
    Comment by Patterico — 8/10/2011 @ 7:36 pm

    I agree, although I admittedly gave the benefit of the doubt when it first started. It’s almost like laying the groundwork for a diminished capacity defense by someone who gets their idea of mental illness/insanity from TV and movies.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  15. Colonel have to ask
    is past tense of “tweet” known as
    “twat” for real?

    ColonelHaiku (d1f5ff)

  16. I should mention that I have pretty much had it with people who don’t prove they are real.

    That will become evident in coming posts.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  17. someone who gets their idea of mental illness/insanity from TV and movies.

    Yeah, he should have just come here and read the Troll Gazette; now, there’s true insanity.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic / Obama Sucks! (7f4436)

  18. I agree, Patrick.

    I am VERY interested in this story. I truly hope law enforcement catch the person/people behind the threats to you and the others and the guilty serve time.

    The perpetrator/s behind this were involved in domestic terrorism.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  19. Thanks Anita I agree with you.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  20. DohBiden, it’s nice to see you civil. Let’s hope we see whomever is behind this terrorism doing the perp walk very soon.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  21. Someone in this story has risked a great deal. Someone has a considerable investment in the story, even after Weiner’s resignation, to the point where they are willing to risk prosecution and prison time.

    This is why I think it will be very telling to watch the key players’ reactions to your subsequent publishing of emails and correspondence. Someone indeed has risked a great deal and continues to do so. It would seem to me the last thing they would want is full exposure. Where to hide then?

    Dana (4eca6e)

  22. I thought it said puppies

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  23. First time I recall seeing Darrah Ford’s name come up. I might have missed a mention somewhere else.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  24. Mr. Feets – Hush with the puppies.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  25. daley, I must have missed the name, too, as it’s new to me.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  26. I apologise for my latest post on the monster thread. It wasn’t my greatest.

    What I found interesting is that Gennette responded to it, in regards to agreeing with my impression of Patterico’s speaking voice.

    She had no response to the idea of sending a photograph proving who she is. If she’s not the real Gennette, why is she here?

    Speaking on behalf to all newbies, this entry helped a lot.

    Prepostericity (dfa2c0)

  27. Why did these threats occur after Weiner resigned? What does any one have invested in him once he left the scene?

    Is it revenge? Or are these just sick puppies with nothing better to do with their lives? What is wrong with you liberals? Sore losers?

    AZ Bob (aa856e)

  28. @Prepostericity

    I was a little unclear about what you were proposing with the picture but I have a feeling that wouldn’t be enough for Patrick.
    I don’t exactly get the whole “proving who I am thing” because I don’t understand why I wouldn’t be the real Gennette… also, I’ve spoken to Pat on the phone for nearly 2 hours, Im on Twitter all the time where I talk to actual people in my life, I’m on Facebook, etc…

    I’m not sure where this idea came from that I’m not really me. SimonJester doesn’t think that its believable that the real me would be as eloquent as I’ve apparently been. Patrick seems to think I behave like a political operative. Some people think that I’ve utilized a handler that has managed my internet presence since the scandal broke…
    All of these things are more believable, I suppose, than me being articulate and interested in finding out who was behind the Reids.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  29. Dana, Daley, Lulzshack has mentioned her several times to Liberty Chick without going into any detail on twitter. No information was actually conveyed.

    Darrah has a twitter and wordpress (darrahford) on both. Both haven’t been used in a few.

    Apparently she’s written about current events in the porn industry. Here (in the comments) she expresses a lot of hatred of Mike but does not explain it at all. That link is NSFW.

    Darrah is critical of the porn industry generally.

    She has a DailyKos diary that is incredibly hostile towards Mike, but seems in error on just about every fact that we now know.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  30. So, Patriot = Nikki = starchild = Mr. Reid = Mrs. Reid = Jenny = Janitor = The Plumbers = The Doobie Brothers = The Smothers Brothers = Brothers Typewriter Ribbon = Pabst Blue Ribbon = the blue dress = Prom Dress = prom night = motel room = moaning = Myrtle = Hog Wart’s = transmitted = Oh, Oh….I think I’ve got it folks! ALIENS SIGNALED RON AND MADE HIM TAKE PICTURES OF A NON-ish ALIEN WEINER!

    Car54 (786412)

  31. “I don’t understand why I wouldn’t be the real Gennette…” and “interested in finding out who was behind the Reids.” Do you see the problem here?

    I speculate a lot, which is fun for me, but not super productive to the process. To keep this new thread cleaner I am going to try and comment only when I think it will actually help someone. Again, arrests cannot come soon enough for me.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  32. Dustin – It’s my fault for not including Lulzshack and DailyKos on my daily reading lists, I guess. Face Palm.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  33. “I don’t understand why I wouldn’t be the real Gennette…”

    I’m sure I am not alone in saying sometimes I don’t feel like the real me. See what the problem is?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  34. “interested in finding out who was behind the Reids.”

    Comment by Gennette — 8/10/2011 @ 8:47 pm

    What difference will it make in your life, Gennette?
    When Patterico finds out the things he is searching for, he will be more secure and will have protected his family, as well as exposing truth.
    What is your goal?

    Sue (86c170)

  35. “To keep this new thread cleaner I am going to try and comment only when I think it will actually help someone.”

    Noodles – You have no idea how much you’ve helped me.

    Don’t ever change.

    I love you, man.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  36. Good question, Sue. What was/is your intentions with all of this, Gennette?

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  37. Let the games begin, Anita. Things will get clear as mud.

    Simon Jester (5124f8)

  38. This is a very helpful post, Patterico. Thank you.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  39. Hi Gennette, I am so confused. The more I read, the less I understand. I apologise if you are who you say you are.

    I was just thinking there must be a way for you to prove you are the 21 year old journalism student without doing a video chat.

    Maybe you can help me out. I have no clue about twitter. Are there ways to communicate on it privately? I don’t get why Weiner tried sending you the inappropriate picture. I don’t get how he was that stupid to post it for all to see. I am a total newbie, yet it appears some crazy spin was that I am the Boston Jenny, that I work for Breitbart, that I am some super duper right wing troll.

    I can relate to you wanting to post on these threads, even if perhaps it is not in either of our best interests.

    Prepostericity (dfa2c0)

  40. @Sue

    Patterico was also interested in this, if I recall, before his family was threatened. Mike S also really wants to know. A lot of people want to know who is the Reids are.

    As for why I am interested in this…whoever is behind this sought me out and then spent weeks and weeks trying to build a relationship with me. Then when the scandal broke they attempted to plant the idea in my mind that Andrew Breitbart had masterminded everything. Then, when Tommy C tipped them off that I had always known they were fake, they launched a tirade against me on Twitter. Then they fabricated numerous DMs that were supposed to be written by me.

    Is it strange that I would want to know who did all of this?

    Gennette (55c21d)

  41. No, that explains it quite well, Gennette. Thanks.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  42. I think people should be nicer to Gennette, just in case she is who she says she is. She could simply be in over her head. I feel that way about myself. Like others, I am hoping things come out in the wash.

    Prepostericity (dfa2c0)

  43. whoever is behind this sought me out and then spent weeks and weeks trying to build a relationship with me

    And you spent weeks and weeks trying to build a relationship with them.

    Is it just because Weiner asked you to?

    Patterico (f724ca)

  44. “I don’t understand why I wouldn’t be the real Gennette…” and “interested in finding out who was behind the Reids.” Do you see the problem here?

    Comment by Noodles — 8/10/2011 @ 9:05 pm

    No, I actually don’t. Would you care to elaborate?

    Gennette (55c21d)

  45. I had almost forgotten about this. I’m glad Pat has kept after it. He’s like a bulldog when it comes to tracking things down. Must be related to that day job!

    Looking forward to the big post.

    Bill M (065f39)

  46. So, Patriot = Nikki = starchild = Mr. Reid = Mrs. Reid = Jenny = Janitor = The Plumbers = The Doobie Brothers = The Smothers Brothers = Brothers Typewriter Ribbon = Pabst Blue Ribbon = the blue dress = Prom Dress! OHHHohhh

    razor419:

    Why did you leave the exact same comment that FineArtsClay aka a million other things — another Dan Wolfe buddy — left weeks ago?

    Patterico (f724ca)

  47. And you spent weeks and weeks trying to build a relationship with them.

    Is it just because Weiner asked you to?

    Comment by Patterico — 8/10/2011 @ 9:32 pm

    Like I’ve said before, I was pursued aggressively. All I had to do was respond occasionally for this person to continue feeding me elaborate stories about their life, family, friends, bad relationships, school, etc.
    If you recall, I talked to Nikki for over a week before I ever mentioned her to Weiner. Weiner and I discussed her for approximately 5 days. The rest of the time I was “working” alone. I was, admittedly, way too curious to stop responding to them.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  48. I think Gennette being a journalism student is a plausible explanation for why she posts on Patterico’s.

    Prepostericity (dfa2c0)

  49. @Patterico

    Isn’t Razor419 Dustin as well at PatriotUSA90210?

    Gennette (55c21d)

  50. No, Dustin is not razor419.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  51. No, I’m not Razor. I’m not sure if anyone made that accusation, but it’s not the case.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  52. @Dustin

    Sorry. I was misinformed.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  53. Gennette,

    What is your opinion about the statements “John Reid” made to me last night, about how he fabricated DMs and got me to buy off on them to show that the entire underage girl angle is phony, to increase sympathy for Weiner, because he is such a big fan of Weiner?

    Patterico (f724ca)

  54. No worries.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  55. Who “informed” you that Dustin was razor419?

    Patterico (f724ca)

  56. @ Gennette 44. 9:05

    Because there are shadowy people playing games everywhere. Kind of like the Reids, whom you would like to know the identities of.

    Give me a half hour and I can have more of presence on the internet (in your boyfriend’s name) than he does.

    Note: I actually believe it is you, but I can see why Patterico specifically would want to know for sure. And Patterico isn’t some “sock” on a comment thread named Noodles. He, as a DDA and Attorney, is held to a higher standard publicly. Why would you not confirm to him that you are who you say you are? It would take all of 3 minutes.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  57. @Patterico

    I wasn’t aware of those. So JR9 has resurfaced?? After how long?

    Gennette (55c21d)

  58. She needs to have her hair just so, Noodles.

    Simon Jester (5124f8)

  59. Is it just because Weiner asked you to?

    Comment by Patterico — 8/10/2011 @ 9:32 pm

    Like I’ve said before, I was pursued aggressively. All I had to do was respond occasionally for this person to continue feeding me elaborate stories about their life, family, friends, bad relationships, school, etc.
    If you recall, I talked to Nikki for over a week before I ever mentioned her to Weiner. Weiner and I discussed her for approximately 5 days. The rest of the time I was “working” alone. I was, admittedly, way too curious to stop responding to them.

    Comment by Gennette — 8/10/2011 @ 9:38 pm

    Just to clarify, Gennette: Did Weiner ever ask, encourage, or direct you to engage with Nikki?

    Greg (bc8186)

  60. You can’t tell the sockpuppets without a scorecard. Are we sure it’s not Glen Greenwald again?

    Bill M (065f39)

  61. It makes sense to me that a journalism student would communicate extensively with those usernames. She was perhaps trying to get a scoop, and it backfired.

    The key problem may be that we don’t have the same questions. There could be misunderstandings developing due to the existential nature of social reality.

    Add in a 3,500 post thread including some planted convolution, and it becomes easy to feel certain questions are being avoided. I apologise in advance if I am adding to that clutter.

    Prepostericity (dfa2c0)

  62. I apologise in advance if I am adding to that clutter.

    Comment by Prepostericity — 8/10/2011 @ 9:47 pm

    Yours were the most helpful comments out of that whole thread. No offense intended to anyone else.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  63. I wasn’t aware of those. So JR9 has resurfaced?? After how long?

    Since last night. You didn’t see the monster thread last night?

    Patterico (f724ca)

  64. @Noodles
    Give me a half hour and I can have more of presence on the internet (in your boyfriend’s name) than he does.

    I dont get what you mean by this.

    He, as a DDA and Attorney, is held to a higher standard publicly. Why would you not confirm to him that you are who you say you are? It would take all of 3 minutes.

    Patrick asked me, maybe a month ago, at like 2 am to confirm my identity by speaking to him on the phone. It was a spontaneous phone call at 2 in the morning (if I really used a handler they probably wouldn’t be with me then), he called my actual cell phone number. For the sake of quelling his suspicions about me being my real self, I took the call… we talked candidly for nearly two hours.

    What reason do I have to believe that if I did a videochat with him it would actually satisfy his suspicions? Wasn’t that the point of the phone call? Also, the thought of doing a video chat with a grown man who I don’t know is a little off-putting to me.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  65. Also, I’d like to address the hair comment for all of the smart asses who post here.
    Pat, asked me to do a video chat, I jokingly said “I’d have to do my hair which I wasn’t planning on doing.” I thought Pat understood this joke because he responded “Yeah, I’d have to shower too!”

    But let’s keep bringing up this very relevant topic.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  66. “…Also, the thought of doing a video chat with a grown man who I don’t know is a little off-putting to me…”

    I don’t mean to be rude, but surely you can see how silly that sounds, given your association with a horndog pervert like Weiner. Right?

    Simon Jester (5124f8)

  67. Don’t get me wrong, Gennette. I want you to continue to post. So I will bow out and let you do your thing.

    But that particular argument just makes you look silly. And like you are hiding things.

    Simon Jester (5124f8)

  68. @ Gennette — 8/10/2011 @ 9:56 pm

    I am illustrating that it is not very hard to fake a lot of the “proof” you have for being who you say you are.

    As to your second point, I don’t think it really matters what I say to that, as you have obviously made up your mind.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  69. “Weiner and I discussed her for approximately 5 days”. And Gennette wonders why people say she is/acts like a political operative. That statement alone shows Weiner was unfit for office.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  70. Gennette,

    I assume you have had a chance to look at the quotes from John Reid now?

    What is your opinion about the statements “John Reid” made to me last night, about how he fabricated DMs and got me to buy off on them to show that the entire underage girl angle is phony, to increase sympathy for Weiner, because he is such a big fan of Weiner?

    Patterico (f724ca)

  71. Noodles, I agree. It’s clear I don’t trust this person, and suspect some kind of motive that’s not clear to me. But who knows? I could be wrong. Maybe, when all this gets aired out, everything will be clear.

    The important thing, of course, isn’t any of this. The implications we are hearing here about the threatening of people is a criminal matter. And I am certain that if anyone had information about that kind of thing, they would assist Patterico in this area, because of his experience with the law.

    As I have said multiple times, I know for a fact that Patterico is unfailingly honest and keeps things confidential.

    Just sayin’.

    Simon Jester (5124f8)

  72. @SimonJester

    If Weiner would have asked me to do a videochat I would have definitely declined. Also, I didn’t realize how creepy he was until everything came out. Regardless, a videochat would have never happened.

    @Noodles
    You really think I’ve faked the nearly two dozen people who I talk to regularly on Twitter?

    Gennette (55c21d)

  73. @Patterico

    I’m on my phone and I can’t scroll through the monster thread it takes way too long. Could you email it to me? If not I’ll look tomorrow.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  74. Thanks, Dustin.

    My schtick basically boils down to this: The internet is a joke. I’m talking mostly about blogs and forums. It’s still nice to have email, read the news, people can check for mortgage rates, etc.. What is disconcerting is a specific aspect of the net, something which is referred to as zeitgeist manipulation.

    We were initially sold the idea it could be an empowering vehicle for positive social change.

    It definitely feels that way at first. It’s like, wow, one can post for all to see. This is democracy in action! Then we find out that no one is listening, and no one cares. Or worse yet, the wrong people are listening, and they are going to do all they can to cybersmear and run certain people off of those blogs and forums.

    It feels like there are two stories to Weinergate. It is mind baffling to consider those working the convoluted aftermath were behind the original sex scandal. I have trouble buying that one.

    I’m not too interested in the original situation, unless the convoluted aftermath can be substantially linked to the resignation. To this newbie, it appears Weiner was simply a sex-crazed fool, and that’s the end of that story.

    Here’s one last thought, because it’s getting late. Those who do not learn the lessons of internet convolution are doomed to repeat them.

    Prepostericity (dfa2c0)

  75. Patterico’s quotes of John Reid from last night after weeks of silence. The nonitalicized portion is Patterico.

    Then John Reid engages in this bizarre conversation. Things like:

    Weiner did nothing wrong with underaged girls and shouldn’t be the target. If you really cared about truth you wouldn’t have written such horrible lies about him and Gennette.

    and

    Thanks for your help Patterico, on behalf of Gennette and Rep Weiner. You’ve helped more than you’ll ever know. You hate that you’ve helped but you did.
    Best wishes!

    and

    No. You did exactly what we wanted. We knew you would tie us to Dan like other people and it’s perfect. Gennette can do a victory dance and so can Weiner.

    We wanted everything ever published discredited and you helped. Not trying to scare you. Just saying what you’ve done. You’ve helped.

    No one thinks we have credibility and no one ever will. All of your stuff is tainted forever. Anything relating to Gennette and Weiner included.

    No one will ever believe a word.

    This after chats in which Reid claimed he had pressed Nikki, found more DMs from Weiner, and claimed that Weiner was more dangerous than he had ever realized.

    Gennette has reacted quickly to comments in that thread. I’m surprised she never saw these.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  76. Browsing early Weinergate posts on Patterico.com today, I saw a tweet from Ginger Lee I’d never seen before. She tweeted it about 45 minutes before Weiner tweeted the underwear shot to Gennette.

    Was the possibility that Weiner had been intending to send his pic to Ginger rather than Gennette ever discussed? (It wasn’t in the comments of the post where the quote appears.) Is there any likelihood of such a mix-up using twitter on a cell phone? (Seems improbable using web-based twitter…)

    Greg (bc8186)

  77. @Gennette

    You really think The Reids faked the nearly two dozen people who they talked to regularly on Twitter?

    Noodles (3681c4)

  78. How did you miss it? My comments quoting Reid, in whom you have so much interest, came after JD’s comment at around 6 p.m. last night . . . to which you responded this morning.

    So the timeline is: JD’s comment is at around 6 p.m., my stuff is later in the evening, you respond to JD this morning, but you didn’t see Reid talking about how everything he did was to help you and Weiner?

    Are you temporizing? Or is something else going on?

    Anyway, here’s what you claim you didn’t see. These quotes are from John Reid.

    No. You did exactly what we wanted. We knew you would tie us to Dan like other people and it’s perfect. Gennette can do a victory dance and so can Weiner.

    We wanted everything ever published discredited and you helped. Not trying to scare you. Just saying what you’ve done. You’ve helped.

    No one thinks we have credibility and no one ever will. All of your stuff is tainted forever. Anything relating to Gennette and Weiner included.

    No one will ever believe a word.

    and

    Weiner did nothing wrong with underaged girls and shouldn’t be the target. If you really cared about truth you wouldn’t have written such horrible lies about him and Gennette.

    and

    Thanks for your help Patterico, on behalf of Gennette and Rep Weiner. You’ve helped more than you’ll ever know. You hate that you’ve helped but you did.
    Best wishes!

    Patterico (f724ca)

  79. I’d really like to know what you think of all that, Gennette.

    I’d also like to feel confident you didn’t write all that.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  80. @Noodles

    Nikki talked to one person on Twitter who was created after I asked her why she didn’t have a Facebook. Then there was Juan. That’s two, not two dozen.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  81. Can you answer my question? Ignore Noodles and everyone else for the time being.

    Those are quotes from John Reid.

    Your reaction?

    Patterico (f724ca)

  82. @Patterico

    And these were from an email that you know to be John Reids? Or something new?
    I’m not sure what to think of it but it sounds like JR9 thought you two were supposed to be teammates.
    I’m a little confused about what I’m reading here. They’re saying that they actually wanted the DMs to be discredited?? Or am I reading that wrong. If that’s what they’re saying why would that have released real DMs/ furnished fake ones in the first place?

    Gennette (55c21d)

  83. That wasn’t the point of my last comment. My point was that fake people who fooled others are at the center of all this. It is going on everywhere. Why couldn’t it be going on with you also? Again, I think you probably are who you say you are, but I don’t understand why you wouldn’t prove that to Patterico.

    *looks like I failed at not commenting as much on this thread.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  84. ______________________________________________

    Someone in this story has risked a great deal. — Patterico @ 6:54 pm

    Then when the scandal broke they attempted to plant the idea in my mind that Andrew Breitbart had masterminded everything. — Comment by Gennette

    The latter makes it a given that the people trying to stir things up have an interest in tarnishing Breitbart, which, in turn, points to their likely being of the left. I have this image of a bunch of really manipulative (if not devious), greedy, power-hungry, money-bag leftists in the vein of George Soros.

    Hyperbole? Yea. BTW, I do laugh when leftists see conspiracies and plots around every corner, with someone like conservative/libertarian billionaire David Koch used as their boogieman. So I don’t want to be a rightwing version of them.

    But Soros still can be used as a symbol, of just how much passion people will put into stroking their biases, whether it’s protecting an Anthony Weiner or whether it’s, better yet and at the same time, smearing a non-liberal segment of the media (eg, Breitbart) and everything around that.

    online.wsj.com, March 2011:

    Two years ago, George Soros said he wanted to reorganize the entire global economic system. On April 8, a group he’s funded with $50 million is holding a major economic conference and Soros’s goal for such an event is to “establish new international rules” and “reform the currency system.” It’s all according to a plan laid out in a Nov. 4, 2009, Soros op-ed calling for “a grand bargain that rearranges the entire financial order.”

    Soros wants a new ‘multilateral system,” or an economic system where America isn’t so dominant. The billionaire…thinks “the main enemy of the open society, I believe, is no longer the communist but the capitalist threat“…

    In the 2000 version of his book “Open Society: Reforming Global Capitalism,” Soros wrote how…he wanted it to “reconstitute the International Monetary Fund,” and while he’s at it, restructure the United Nations, too, boosting China and other countries at our expense.

    “Reorganizing the world order will need to extend beyond the financial system and involve the United Nations, especially membership of the Security Council,’ he wrote. ‘That process needs to be initiated by the US, but China and other developing countries ought to participate as equals.”

    …Soros warns, all this needs to happen because “the alternative is frightening.” The Bush-hating billionaire says America is scary “because a declining superpower losing both political and economic dominance but still preserving military supremacy is a dangerous mix.”

    Mark (411533)

  85. @Patterico

    I’m reading and typing on my phone. Chill out. No one is ignoring you.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  86. And these were from an email that you know to be John Reids? Or something new?

    Same email he always used to contact ME.

    Ever so slightly different from the one Nikki used to contact you.

    Clearly associated with the JohnReid9 account.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  87. They’re saying that they actually wanted the DMs to be discredited??

    Yes.

    They said it over and over and over.

    That what they had done — putting out fake DMs — benefitted Weiner. And you.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  88. Actually, he didn’t say the DMs were fake.

    And I’m not sure they are.

    But he sounded thrilled that everyone would THINK they were.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  89. @Patterico

    Ehh, Im not buying it. How in the hell would releasing fake DMs have benefitted me at all?

    Gennette (55c21d)

  90. “But they will still look fake and no one believes them especially when you try to make us seem Dan Wolfe. That is the best part. Nothing you’ve put out from us will ever be taken seriously. It’s all fake and Weiner was the victim. Either way it’s the perfect ending. Your theory about us as Dan Wolfe helps no matter what so thank you. You’ve helped more than you could ever know. No one will ever believe anything we sent was real. Thank you :)”

    Patterico (f724ca)

  91. I have an idea. But I don’t want to lead the witness.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  92. “You published everything and will publish more, Weiner looks great, we look bad. What’s lost here? We weren’t paid but are happy to help. You did everything you were supposed to do. Thank you :)”

    Patterico (f724ca)

  93. “Everything you’ve ever written about Weiner and underaged girls is now tainted and called into question. It’s all fake. Especially if your theory that we are Dan Wolfe is true. Thank you, you’ve helped so much :)”

    Patterico (f724ca)

  94. There must be 10-15 e-mails like that. Thank you so much, you made the DMs look fake, this will help Weiner, you hate that you helped but you did, why do you think we picked you, we wanted to help Weiner, etc. etc. etc.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  95. Ehh, Im not buying it. How in the hell would releasing fake DMs have benefitted me at all?

    It’s not all about you. Reid claimed he wants to help Weiner, whom he still admires, etc. My threat to out him as Dan Wolfe prompted this tirade.

    So what do you think, Gennette?

    Patterico (f724ca)

  96. And can you explain, while we’re at it, how you missed all this in the monster thread last night, but managed to see JD’s comment? I am genuinely curious about that.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  97. @Patterico

    1. I don’t see how this made Weiner look good.
    2. JR9 sounds like a female or an effeminate male.

    Also Pat, I find the timing of these new emails “interesting.” When was the last time you’d heard from him before this?

    Gennette (55c21d)

  98. @Patterico

    I didn’t read it closely. I was skimming for insults.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  99. This all happened last night. Reid contacts me out of the blue, for the first time in weeks.

    The argument was that it made Weiner look good because it discredited all I had written about underage girls.

    But it was TOTALLY inconsistent with things he said to me in chats. Where he basically said he and his wife had re-evaluated Weiner and thought he was more dangerous than they had realized because of the creepy shit he sent Nikki.

    When I asked permission to publish the chats — pointing out that, if he wanted to be discredited, letting me publish them would surely accomplish that — I was denied said permission.

    But, of course, I don’t need it. I will be publishing them — because he is a fraud.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  100. I didn’t read it closely. I was skimming for insults.

    Control-F for “Gennette”? That’s kinda what I thought.

    You missed some really interesting stuff about those Reids you’re so interested in.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  101. Think hard. I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

    I threaten to out him as Dan Wolfe.

    He goes into a tirade taunting me as saying that will benefit Weiner, which is what he wanted all along, and you will get to do a victory dance along with Weiner.

    Your thoughts?

    Patterico (f724ca)

  102. JR9 sounds like a female or an effeminate male.

    Yeah, that was kind of my thinking.

    I said the same thing to Wolfe . . . about Wolfe.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  103. @Patterico

    I don’t really agree that it benefits Weiner at all. Also, I don’t think fake DMs were needed to discredit much of what you said about the underaged girls.
    Will you publish tonight?

    Gennette (55c21d)

  104. I gotta go to bed. I was really hoping I could get a theory from Gennette on this before I go to sleep.

    I get the confusion, though. Threw me for a huge freaking loop last night. I think I mentioned you in talking about it. I think it’s the kind of thing that ought to have gotten your attention, actually.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  105. Will I publish what tonight? Whatever the question is, the answer is no. No, I am going to bed.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  106. @Patterico 101

    Will you just say what you’re trying to say? Also, haven’t you openly expressed your suspicions about JR9 being DW long before this?

    Gennette (55c21d)

  107. This is what Joe Biden would call a big fucking deal.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  108. Will you just say what you’re trying to say?

    No. Because I want to hear what YOU think Reid was up to with all this.

    Which you haven’t said. I’d like to hear your theory.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  109. Also, haven’t you openly expressed your suspicions about JR9 being DW long before this?

    Not directly to Reid, and . . . I started telling him specifically where he fucked up. With specifics.

    There are more than what I mentioned.

    Anyway document dump comes first, before anything else.

    Night.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  110. GC, you have given more time and thought to the Reids than anyone else on the planet. Thousands of messages.

    Do you have any theories about these incredibly weird latest messages? Who, why, etc?

    Dustin (b7410e)

  111. @Patterico

    Question, maybe there’s a way to provide proof for this but, how would anyone know for sure that you’re actually getting any of this? I’m not accusing you of anything I’m just wondering if there’s anyway to prove this stuff is real.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  112. I forwarded the entire conversation to three people I trust.

    And I plan to publish the whole thing.

    Frankly, I’m not worried about my credibility, in the slightest. But I do believe in proof and I will provide it.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  113. I was monitoring the John Reid twitter account that was friends with Gennette and Tommy Christopher. It’s the same account that agreed to email Patterico and then send him messages. Safe to say these messages definitely came from the same person behind that twitter account. I can at least corroborate that much.

    I’m sure Patterico can produce email headers. This kinda feels like a diversion, and I don’t think anyone credible will doubt Patterico did get these messages.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  114. @Patterico

    I don’t know what to think about the new stuff. It doesn’t make sense but I think it sounds like bull.

    Also, I get that you didn’t tell Reid directly but are people supposed to believe that he hasn’t been following comments?

    Gennette (55c21d)

  115. What Dustin wrote. This has been a very interesting thread.

    Simon Jester (5124f8)

  116. “…are people supposed to believe that he hasn’t been following comments?…”

    Hmmm.

    Simon Jester (5124f8)

  117. @Patterico 112

    I’m also not worried about your credibility. But yes, I would appreciate seeing the proof.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  118. Also, I get that you didn’t tell Reid directly but are people supposed to believe that he hasn’t been following comments?

    Are we supposed to believe you missed this last night?

    Anyway, the stuff I said to him — the specifics — are things I have never said in any comments.

    He did refer to seeing “insults” on my blog but had no idea how serious I was about connecting him to Wolfe — and how extensive the proof was — until I dropped a few hints.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  119. What Dustin wrote. This has been a very interesting thread.

    Comment by Simon Jester — 8/10/2011 @ 11:07 pm

    and…informative.

    ppk_pixie (1df0c8)

  120. If you expect us to believe you missed things in comments you have to allow that he might have too. Right?

    Y’all have both been obsessed with this thing.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  121. If it’s “bull” them what was the motive?

    Patterico (8bf0a9)

  122. @Patterico

    I was actually pretty busy last night. I skimmed the comments and didn’t read closely.
    Are you insinuating something right now?

    Gennette (55c21d)

  123. Nah.

    Patterico (8bf0a9)

  124. But what do you think would be the motive for John Reid to say all that?

    Patterico (8bf0a9)

  125. @Patterico

    Haha. Okay.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  126. @Patterico

    1. I don’t know that he said any of it. 2. I really don’t know why he would do it. Perhaps he’s discourage you from publishing the rest of the stuff? Is that what you’re getting at?

    Gennette (55c21d)

  127. No.

    I really thought you might see this the same way I did.

    Patterico (8bf0a9)

  128. don’t know that he said any of it.

    What is that supposed to mean? I just told you what he said.

    Patterico (8bf0a9)

  129. @Patterico

    Okay… well should I think about this some more or are you going to tell me what you think?

    Gennette (55c21d)

  130. He said it over and over and over again.

    Like he was taunting me. Claiming his plan all along was to get me to do what I did, which is help Weiner, even though I hate that I did it.

    Patterico (8bf0a9)

  131. Think about it some more, I guess.

    My theory is in the e-mail conversation. I was very explicit about it.

    Patterico (8bf0a9)

  132. @Patterico

    You’re sort of making me feel like an idiot right now. Just tell me what you’re trying to say. It’s not as obvious as you must think it is.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  133. Weinergate for Dummies!

    Alright, I can see why you care. It is intriguing.

    Thanks for the primer; the monster thread totally lost me.

    prmetime (1d022f)

  134. the monster thread totally lost me.

    You were able to access it and navigate it?

    Good for you. You must be tenacious.

    That thread has become so unweildy that I not only had difficulty in accessing it and navigating it, but in my exasperation, I gave up on the nuisance (and my futile efforts) of trying to leave a comment, too.

    Summit, NJ (75c9eb)

  135. I can see how it’s very easy to miss posts in the monster tread when trying to read it on a phone, which is very difficult. I was doing the same last night, away from my computer. It totally requires a catch-up re-read later on.

    koam @wittier (7b067e)

  136. When was the last time Gennette had contact with former Congressman Weiner? Has Gennette had contact with Weiner since his resignation?

    From latest John Reid:

    “Gennette can do a victory dance and so can Weiner.”

    “Anything relating to Gennette and Weiner included.”

    “…you wouldn’t have written such horrible lies about him and Gennette.”

    “…on behalf of Gennette and Rep Weiner…”

    Why does John Reid care so much about Gennette’s reputation (in concert with Weiner’s reputation)? Wasn’t the major thrust of Alicia Paine’s threat meant to scare Patterico off Gennette’s trail?

    Birdbath (19803d)

  137. I think the socks latest tack is saying he wanted to reel you in, P. or at least use you to mucky up the field enough so that no one knew what was real anymore.

    Through his use of you and your blog, making no one know what was real anymore, any justified and/or unjustified insinuations that Weiner acted with impropriety with young girls would be obscured by a haze of unbelievable, made-up, sock allegations. Weiner wins or something.

    ************

    Of course, stupidity and crazy rules the sock logic, humor resulting.

    ********

    SarahW (af7312)

  138. No one is “on” Gennette’s trail. Nothing, not even their actual tweets, could clear Weiner and no one gives a hang if a green young community college student didn’t quite get the impropriety of his dealings with her.

    The socks, well that’s different. Your trail is sought. Maybe even almost found.

    SarahW (af7312)

  139. hopefully jail time will be coming soon

    EricPWJohnson (d3bd53)

  140. Not really following this, but if people can cause trouble with rumor and inuendo and manipulation pre-internet, then…

    FWIW, the command to not lie about someone is on the same short list as to not murder someone.

    MD in Philly (4630a3)

  141. Gennette claims she knew Nikki was a fake before they started communicated, having watched her gather information about AW in her communications with other women.

    She has also said Weiner thought Nikki was a fake even before Gennette raised her suspicions about her to AW.

    Weiner assumed Nikki was a conservative troll, but I don’t recall Gennette’s theory of what Nikki was up to other than gathering information about AW.

    Gennette, what is your theory about what the Reid’s were up to. Above you seem to discount DW’s after the fact efforts to convince you Breitbart was behind them. Since you keep claiming they were fakes, what do you think they were doing and why?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  142. MD in Philly – Too bad you have not been following. This one had your number all over it Doc.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  143. But SarahW (I’ll address you and not Gennette since you are actually theorizing), do you think Patriot and John Reid are the same?

    And if so . . . do you think Patriot’s real goal was to confuse everything? Because wouldn’t they have to have the same goal, assuming this isn’t all one giant mega-troll?

    Patterico (f724ca)

  144. Patterico, this reminds me of the weird stuff the CIA used to do, to muddy the water around real incidents. They used to have crazy sounding witnesses, unbelievable and faked evidence, etc.

    The take home is that no one believed anything about the whole situation.

    Which is what this reminds me of.

    In other words, this isn’t just one crazy person. There is some degree of coordination, I suspect. The real question is: why?

    I have no idea, but I hope that you do.

    Simon Jester (5124f8)

  145. “Patterico, this reminds me of the weird stuff the CIA used to do, to muddy the water around real incidents. They used to have crazy sounding witnesses, unbelievable and faked evidence, etc.”

    Simon – You’re describing Brad Blog!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  146. Tru dat, daley. And I think that teh crazee can rub off on you. Next thing you know, that Zombie person in the Bay Area is taking photos of your unusual friends.

    Simon Jester (5124f8)

  147. @DaleyRocks 141

    I didn’t claim that I knew Nikki was fake before we started communicating. She tweeted me about a book, I responded, she asked me to follow so we could DM… that’s when I looked at her twitter page and realized that she only followed celebrities, girls that AW followed and surf shop pages. She was asking girls who he was following how they got him to follow, what they talked about, she claimed she was a fangirl, etc… But she had never tweeted him and she wasn’t following him.

    Also, I never said that he AW thought she was fake before I raised suspicions about it. He may have, he never said.

    I didn’t have a theory of what Nikki was up to. If you recall, I was really thrown by her behavior with me. She talked about everything you could think to talk about except him, I didn’t get it then and I still don’t get it now.

    I haven’t really theorized openly throughout this whole thing unless something seemed pretty obvious to me… like the Reids being anti-Weiner. I don’t know what their motive was, I don’t have an idea as to who I think was behind it, I don’t know if they were on the left or the right, I don’t know what they were hoping to accomplish or why they seem to hate me so much.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  148. …you wouldn’t have written such horrible lies about him and Gennette.

    What kind of weirdo is this?

    It sure sounds like John sent some damaging stuff about Weiner, and the whole time was intending to also discredit it. Whether he was lying then, or he’s lying now, it’s about something nasty and twisted, so he’s the horrible liar.

    I think it’s pretty clear that they specifically intended to taint an argument. Think about the entire body of John Reid interactions with us. Did he ever seriously try to convince us he’s real? No. But now he absolutely is serious about convincing us his claims were false.

    This isn’t an even handed chaos. It’s a feint followed by a thrust. That is the only way all that effort, almost certainly planned, makes sense.

    While it may have been triggered by the fact Dan would be linked to John (bringing a lot of the fraud down), the idea always was to announce it was all fake.

    Which lionizes Gennette. Actions speak louder than words. They are either ambivalent about Gennette or they are friendly towards her. The professed hostility can probably be dismissed by the balance of their actions.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  149. hahahahahah yeh, a new thread looks MUCH less obsessive :^) wooohooo! Party on!

    tifosa (061d63)

  150. Tifosa is projecting her obsession onto others again.

    JD (b98cae)

  151. Weiner, Gennette, Lee, Pat, Preston, Tommy, Ace, Pru…..all pawns, in failed, gyrating, desperate plot to discredit AB.

    koam @witier (fe7e2f)

  152. Dustin, like Patterico and a few others, I think you know a lot more about this mess than the rest of us. I can’t wait for a short version of it. There is a lot of suspicious stuff going on involving what ought to be an open-and-shut pervey congresscritter story.

    Simon Jester (0a2e6a)

  153. Forgot Mike, sorry.

    koam @witier (3d5c5d)

  154. Dustin, do you know more than the rest of us?

    koam @witier (3d5c5d)

  155. I wish I had special insight, Simon. I have succumbed to most reasonable sounding theories about this at one point or another. My theories explaining this stuff shouldn’t carry more weight than anybody else’s. Doesn’t Koam’s pithy summary feel right? I think it does. I find myself nodding my head to various conflicting theories, and that tells me I’m not grasping this well enough.

    I do know enough to say

    And somewhere in all this — again after Weiner’s resignation — Mike Stack, blogger Ace of Spades, and I were threatened not to look into the activities of Gennette and Weiner. The threatening parties have gone much further than that, in fact, and the matter has been turned over to law enforcement. I am not revealing details, but when we catch the people who did it, I predict that they will go to prison.

    is truth. Patterico is not exaggerating. Anybody who can help still has time to do so.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  156. Dustin, do you know more than the rest of us?

    Comment by koam @witier

    Yes, but the reason I haven’t shared is because it would be reckless to do so. No disrespect intended.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  157. My synopsis – Neal R – c@ck. GennetteC – mendoucheous twatwaffle. Weiner – weiner. The rest – weird.

    JD (29e1cd)

  158. JD, Ron really should fit in all those categories.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  159. What’s reckless mean? no disrespect.

    koam @witier (6867e0)

  160. How could I forget the King of Krazy?!?! Ron Brynaert appears to have had some type of breakdown, triggered by his lusting for weinertweeter.

    JD (306f5d)

  161. It would be reckless to reveal, especially if there are investigations being conducted.

    JD (d48c3b)

  162. @JD

    You seem like a really intelligent person.

    :)

    Gennette (55c21d)

  163. yeh JD, a bright shining bulb in the chandelier of life. :^)

    tifosa (061d63)

  164. @Gennette – I am crushed that you hold me in such low regard. However will I manage to muddle through my existence without your approval that I so desperately seek? I realize that I am about as smart as a 2×4. Sadly for you, you continue to grossly overestimate your smarts.

    JD (d56362)

  165. @JD

    Haha. Thank you for informing me that I’ve been overestimating my smarts. Until this moment I hadn’t been aware of that.
    Your maturity and your wit astound me, truly.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  166. Gennette your slipping man.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  167. Oh I don’t get the word reckless….

    koam @witier (dec556)

  168. Koam, all I said was I have no special insight that helps with the theorizing.

    Wish I did.

    Reckless definition: unconcerned about the consequences of some action

    :)

    Dustin (b7410e)

  169. Something I haven’t thought about in a long time is bothering me, especially since Gennette and Anthony discussed Nikki for five days. The Prom date. I don’t want to speculate, but maybe someone smarter than me can connect something with that.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  170. @Noodles

    When I say we discussed it for five days, I meant from the 12th-16th of May but not everyday in those five days. And these weren’t in depth conversations.

    What about the prom thing though? I might be able to fill in blanks about it.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  171. @ Gennette

    Thanks. Well, here you have a sitting congressman discussing a fake persona on Twitter and, correct me if I’m wrong, he says he would take her to prom (if she proves she is a progressive or something). That seems to be a very odd thing to do.

    Feel free to enlighten me on any of this as I am in no way an expert on every detail of this story.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  172. Weiner, Gennette, Lee, Pat, Preston, Tommy, Ace, Pru…..all pawns, in failed, gyrating, desperate plot to discredit AB.

    Comment by koam @witier — 8/11/2011 @ 10:34 am

    All that runs through my mind at this point is Neal’s tag line in every one of his posts on Kos “Indict Breibart”

    ppk_pixie (1df0c8)

  173. @Noodles

    From what I remember, she asked him if he would go to her prom with her (at that time the school that she told me she went to had already held it’s prom). She said she had asked her parents and they said it was okay. He knew she was a troll and was just messing with her saying that if she began a prom/progressive campaign on Twitter he would go with her.
    That’s all I know about that. I also thought that part was really random and weird.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  174. @ Gennette

    Do you think Weiner would still like to know who was behind all the socks?

    I would think he has to blame them to some extent. I’m sure he knows he pulled the stupidest move ever, but that if they hadn’t been watching his every move, he would have easily got away with it since he deleted the image pretty fast.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  175. ==He knew she was a troll and was just messing with her saying that if she began a prom/progressive campaign on Twitter he would go with her==

    The fact that AW- a middle aged elected U.S. congressman –“knew she was a troll and was just messing with her” almost bothers me as much as his wienertweeting and his internet sextalk hobby. I mean, did this guy do any work to represent his district? Did he make time to do any work at all?

    It is completely possible to believe that some democrats- whether they be NY political rivals or true party loyalists- could have wanted him gone enough to try to “out” him in a sting.

    elissa (7e8c9c)

  176. Comment by Gennette — 8/11/2011 @ 1:28 pm

    I take it you were a confidant of AW’s.

    Is it possible, Gennette, that what AW told you he thought wasn’t what he really thought or didn’t reveal all he knew? Perhaps you knew what he wanted you to know. Perhaps what he told you his intentions were, were a diversion and that you were playing a useful part?

    I have no specific theory, I’m just speculataing: what if Weiner pretended to be your pal/counter-spy-buddy but was less than candid about why, etc.?

    koam @wittier (7b067e)

  177. Questions I’m curious about:

    1. The Reids sound pro-Weiner to me but Gennette describes them as anti-Weiner. Why is she convinced the Reids were anti-Weiner and when specifically did she come to that conclusion? Was this another intuitive decision or was it based on something more?

    2. Regarding comments 49-52, why did Gennette say she was “misinformed” that Dustin was razor419? To be misinformed is different than a misunderstanding, and someone as articulate as Gennette knows that. So who “informed” her?

    3. After Patterico posted excerpts from his new email conversation with John Reid, why did Gennette (at 8/10/2011 @ 10:29 pm) ask: “And these were from an email that you know to be John Reids? Or something new?” Which is more likely — to ask if the emails were real/verified or to question which email address they came from?

    4. Why is Gennette upset that Patterico won’t share his theories publicly on this thread when she’s repeatedly refused to share hers? Similarly, why is she willing to discuss topics privately with Patterico even though she says she doesn’t trust him?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  178. @Wittier

    One thing that kind of bothers me about this blog is that nearly every single one of the commenters here have greatly overampliflied my “relationship” with Weiner.
    I wasn’t his sexting buddy or his confidante.
    We really didn’t talk that much. I’ve talked to Patterico in the last month and a half probably 40 times more than I ever talked to AW.
    I’m not exactly sure what you’re getting at as far as him wanting me to think a certain way about the trolls but nothing he ever said impacted my thoughts about Nikki.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  179. @DRJ

    1. They’ve always been anti-Weiner in my mind. Because from the very beginning I linked them to Dan Wolfe who was vehemently anti-Weiner.
    2. None of your business.
    3. I wanted to know if they were verified emails because I thought the timing was highly questionable. The Reids have been quiet for quite some time.
    4. I wasn’t upset at all. I was getting annoyed that he was obviously trying to get me to see something that I couldnt see versus just telling me what it was that he was hinting at. I didnt refuse to share my theory about this, I just don’t have one.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  180. 1. You couldn’t have known that. Do you always discount every possibility but the one you believe?

    2. Heh. You’ve now guaranteed that we won’t drop this topic. Is that what you wanted?

    3. You didn’t ask if they were verified. You asked what email address they came from.

    4. It is annoying not to understand what’s going on. It would be nice if you would just tell us what you know, but sometimes we don’t get what we want. You’ve stuck to this because you want answers. So are we.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  181. Well, could you tell me the answer to DRJ’s second question? I’m not really worried about it (a lot of things have been said about me, and most of you barely know me), but I hadn’t heard that one before.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  182. @DRJ

    1. It’s not like I never considered other things. This is just what I felt strongly about at the time and there’s a really good chance I was right.
    2. It makes no difference to me one way or the other.
    3. I was making sure they weren’t from some new random address.
    4. I don’t know who you mean by “we”. But I’ve given a lot of answers out here publicly. And I’ve given even more stuff privately to some people who comment here. I’ve given Patterico information/documents that he hasn’t published.
    So I’m not sure exactly what you’re trying to say? I wasn’t annoyed because Pat wasn’t telling me something that I wanted to know. I was annoyed because he kept hinting at something and making it seem like I should understand it but I didn’t. I don’t do that.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  183. Odds Dustin gets an answer to his question: 87-1.

    Birdbath (19803d)

  184. @Dustin

    I sent you a DM

    Gennette (55c21d)

  185. Sometimes the longshot pays off! Nice.

    Birdbath (19803d)

  186. Thanks for the DM.

    Her friend (who is unnamed) mistakenly thought Lee had said it. Patt’s heard both our voices.

    I did take up Razor’s case, and I meant what I said, but I have since gotten the impression I was being pushed to fight with Lee (not that it took much). I wish to ignore that distraction.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  187. Is this the first new weinergate thread?

    Even though more threads now have been opened up (finally) I want to reply to some things back on the June 30 thread.

    Is that a good idea?

    On the one hand, it’s good to have one thread so it can be searched (except that Ctrl-F forward doesn’t seem to work so well) and also there are niot so many different threads to find. On the other hand they are extremely long and can make trouble on some systems. And it doesn’t show up when you go to the website except maybe as a new post

    But you know where to comment. It seems like as soon as new Weinergate thread is opened the discussion mostly moves. Before June 30 each one mostly lasted only a day or two. There got to be quite a lot of them. In one case the John Reid question thread got comments directed to it so that one lasted a bit longer but mostly it was two dozen or more smnall threads.

    I have saved a lot of them ASCII files and not just Patterico.

    BTW, I had the feeling that maybe Pat was trying to hide the fact that discussion was continuing from the would be intimidaters. I didn’t want to say that. I guess that’s over with now.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)

  188. I haven’t followed this, like, at all. I’m interested in it, at this point, purely for the sake of the brain-teaser. With that disclaimer in mind (for the sake of my ego, so that when I turn out to be wildly off base I won’t feel too bad about my analytical capacities):

    Also, I obviously don’t have all the information here – haven’t seen the emails and all the correspondence that leads Patterico to believe that some of these people might be one person – but, accepting it as a premise for the sake of the argument (and accordingly dispensing with some Occam’s Razor discussions):

    I was thinking along the same lines as SarahW, but a desire to cast a pall of skepticism over the entire Anthony Weiner scandal (as Mr./Mrs./Nikki Reid) doesn’t make any sense if that scandal was kicked off by Dan Wolfe as Patriot (who we’re postulating is the same person), unless:

    A) AW’s peeps found out that someone had dirt on AW that was gonna come out regardless of anyone’s efforts, so they decided to leak it themselves so that they could control the narrative down the road,

    and/or (and most likely and)

    B) whatever was going to come out was significantly worse than an underwear d*ck-pick, or it wouldn’t have been good triage to head it off with the controversy they did.

    That’s the only thing that makes sense to me, if we accept the premise that Dan Wolfe (the person who “broke the scandal”) and the John/Nikki Reid (who are trying to downplay the scandal) are the same person.

    That would also explain why Nikki Reid was going around talking to every girl AW was interacting with on Twitter: if she were a proxy for a damage control, Call-Me-A-Janitor type, she would want to know the extent of AW’s online indiscretions, and that seems like a good way to gain insight into them.

    (I’m sure someone’s made these points already, by the way; I’m sorry, I’m playing catch-up here).

    But (by way of conclusion), it seems like a highly misguided Machiavellian endeavor, considering that AW’s political career is ruined either way. It doesn’t make sense to do it – unless your a fan of the David Vitter model of political rehabilitation, or you’re way past the point of considering a political future and are just trying to keep someone out of prison.

    Leviticus (b85154)

  189. I hope at some point to read the criminal complaints verdicts and sentencing documents right here. Till then, hang tough Pat, Mike, Ace etc…

    coondawg68 (5fad4e)

  190. Who are the PR type people or consultants who were offered as “help” to Ginger Lee and probably others of the women? Where are they now? Were they from Weiner’s own staff, or were they hired from some other sort of crisis control agency? Have Ginger or her lawyer ever been asked this question directly? Were the PR people done with their assignment when AW resigned– or are they still on the job and collecting salary/fees from somebody or other? (A loose end that may or may not matter, but I’m curious about it.)

    elissa (7e8c9c)

  191. Interesting question, elissa. Interesting question. Who knows? I certainly don’t.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  192. Maybe Gennette could reconsider her career choice of journalism, and instead pursue public relations:

    “Cordova sent an on-the-record tweet to POLITICO’s Ben Smith for a story he wrote Thursday about the brouhaha. Smith credited Cordova with following “the public relations textbook to the letter.” ”
    http://dyn.politico.com/members/forums/thread.cfm?catid=1&subcatid=70&threadid=5530860

    The article above was in part about Gennette’s anger at the NY Post’s Reuven Fenton, who Gennette said was dishonestly posing as a photog’s assistant to get Gennette’s quotes.

    The photographer for the story was Daniel Berman, of Bellingham, WA, Gennette’s town. Berman was a student intern.

    Gennette, did you know the photographer before he took the pics of you that appeared at the NY Post? And is it your position that the NY Post ran the story, totally without your permission?

    Did the photog misrepresent himself too? If he didn’t, that means you gave your permission to the NY Post to run the pics he took, right – since he was under contract (I’m assuming – because he wasn’t an employee) to the NY Post? Or did he take the pics & then sell them to the highest bidder? One more question – did you meet Reuven Fenton or did you just talk to him on the phone? Please explain to us how that worked.

    Just a curious choice of media – the Post is not a typical liberal rag – it had run articles critical of Weiner before.

    http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2011/06/gennette_cordova_weinergate_sc.php

    http://justlife4me.com/life/gennette-nicole-cordova-is-congressman-anthony-weiner-affair/

    Miranda (4104db)

  193. Quite a link from Politico. Oh goodness, Miranda, surely you’re not suggesting….

    elissa (7e8c9c)

  194. Just opening the door ….. something bothered me about the whole NY Post deal … and the pics …. and the refusal to do a video chat.

    The PR deal is curious … how it was offered to Ginger Lee, but not Gennette – and Gennette talked to AW on the phone? Strange.

    Wish Patterico would weigh in on these threads.

    Miranda (4104db)

  195. 189.I hope at some point to read the criminal complaints verdicts and sentencing documents right here. Till then, hang tough Pat, Mike, Ace etc… Thanks coondawg—You’ve always been good peeps to me
    Dustin ,pixie,and everyone else who continues to show support

    goatsred (66819b)

  196. Always, Mike. And I look forward to guilty verdicts coming down, oh yes I do.

    Its been fascinating to watch as its happened, but certainly not worth the cost to the real people that are worried. The upset and fear its caused is unacceptable, and its past time for the piper’s dues to be paid…in full.

    ppk_pixie (1df0c8)

  197. @Miranda

    I never spoke to Anthony Weiner on the phone.

    The NY Post thing is complicated.
    A student at WWU in Bellingham contacted me and asked if he could take a new picture for me since all of the ones running we’re really bad.
    I declined. He persisted. And after a few days a friend of a friend got in touch with me and vouched for him.
    Since I was unhappy with the pictures, I consented.

    When he came to my house, he had lights and a bunch of other equipment and an “assistant.”
    I asked the guy who he was and he said he was Reuven, Dan’s assistant.

    I told Dan that I really only wanted a headshot and he assured me that he was only taking a bunch to make sure there were good ones.
    While he was taking them, his “assistant” was making casual conversation about the incident and how I was doing. I was trying to be polite so I made conversations back with him, I figured he was just chatty.

    I started feeling uncomfortable because they were taking a lot of pictures and at one point (and I’m not making this up) they asked me to pose with a hotdog on a fork. I asked them to leave, I signed their release, and they left.

    The next day, I was on the front page of the NY Post and it said that I had sat down with them for an exclusive interview and photoshoot.
    Also, the kid had put up a gallery of the photos that he took of me for sale.

    I had no idea I was in the room with a reporter, I had no idea he was writing a story, I had no idea that the kid was going to use anything other than a headshot.

    I was really sick and drained at this point, and I was off my guard because the kid was a student. I should have been more careful. It was stupid of me.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  198. Yes, well, that was a kid who was trying to make a buck. Patrick is an honorable man who is not trying to make a buck, Gennette.

    BIG difference.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  199. And, believe me, I’ve ended up on the other side of the story and have seen the worst side of human nature and of journalism. I just had to ask for Newsweek to to a correction on this week’s story regarding me.

    Do the video chat with Patrick. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Patrick is interested in the facts.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  200. Do the video chat with Patrick. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Patrick is interested in the facts.

    Comment by Anita Busch — 8/11/2011 @ 8:07 pm

    I have literally nothing of value to gain and I’d be losing even more of my sense of privacy.
    There’s not one good reason to believe that I’m not who I say I am.
    Also, you and I have probably had totally different experiences with Patrick. Mine have been less than pleasant and just don’t feel comfortable video chatting with him.
    I appreciate your support with the other commenters so I hope this won’t turn you against me now.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  201. No, Gennette, it doesn’t. I lost all my privacy when I was a victim of crime as I was illegally wiretapped, not only as a citizen but also as a journalist.

    I know what invasion of privacy is all about.

    I didn’t know Patrick from Adam … he called me up and started asking me hard questions and they were about my credibility. But after awhile, I realized that this guy was only interested in the truth.

    I think you realized that talking with him, too, no? I’m just saying, you should not feel afraid to do so. He is extremely trustworthy. I am speaking from first-hand experience.

    Take it from someone who has ALSO been on the other side of a national news story … (actually international). He’s the real deal. Trust him.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  202. Thanks for answering, Gennette.

    So the NY Post flew their reporter from NYC to Seattle & then Bellingham?

    Did you have to sign a release for the photos? Did you get paid for them?

    So re media, you’ve talked to Politico and inadvertently to the NY Post. No other press? I think I’m forgetting one here. Getting late on the East coast.

    Miranda (4104db)

  203. Maybe this will help Gennette. I touched on this in the long thread, and I don’t know all the ins and out of it, but I have a family member who is an ADA. And he once told my that there all these things he could not do/had to do because of his job and just being lawyer. Mostly because his of his law license. Maybe someone could explain this better but basically Patterico (who I don’t think would anyway) cannot/will not do anything shady to you that would threaten his license. So, in effect, he is held to higher standard than all the Jen Preston’s of the world etc.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  204. Oh yeah – duh – the NYT was the media outlet I was thinking of.

    Tired. Used to be I could stay up all night & write essays on Kantian ethics …. the old-fashioned way, in a composition book. Ancient times, Gennette. We didn’t have the luxury of cutting & pasting or even hitting the delete button.

    Miranda (4104db)

  205. re: Comment by Miranda — 8/11/2011 @ 8:21 pm

    Preston and another NYT writer, I think.

    re: Comment by Noodles — 8/11/2011 @ 8:37 pm

    What standard is Preston held to? Certainly not the “don’t completely bullshit the interviewee before you even talk” standard. Certainly not the “don’t tweet others’ private info and publicly ask accusatory questions without basis” standard. Certainly not the “publish whatever bunk that the socks’ intern (who not coincidentally happens to also be your intern) gives you, even if it’s written by the puppetmaster” standard. Certainly not the “don’t publish a retraction even when you realize that your big story was entirely spoonfed to you by a puppetmaster” standard. Certainly not the “don’t RT any headline that fits your overarching theme that right-wing hackers are out to sting progressives, even if the stories are obviously false and don’t support the scandalous headlines” standard. Certainly not the “spin the headline to fit your theme and make assumptions about the motivations of others without having any proof” standard. Certainly not the “gloss over key facts and write misleadingly about what happened” standard.

    koam @wittier (7b067e)

  206. @ koam @wittier — 8/11/2011 @ 8:56 pm

    lol I just meant journalistic standards but I think you said it better.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  207. LOL Koam.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  208. @Miranda

    I didn’t do an interview with politico. I sent a public tweet to one of their writers as I had done with plenty of people.

    So NYT, I gave my statement to NYDN and yeah, inadvertently, the NY Post.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  209. Ok – thanks for 208. I’ll repeat my previous questions:

    So the NY Post flew their reporter from NYC to Seattle & then Bellingham?

    Did you have to sign a release for the photos? Did you get paid for them?

    Miranda (4104db)

  210. while I now know what the purpose of LeeS’ posts on this subject was, i still think this is a waste of pixels on this site.
    How about setting up a sub-page to handle this?

    rp (e19563)

  211. @Miranda

    Sorry, I never saw your questions, the NY Post flew their reporter from New York to Seattle, he “interviewed” my mom and completely mischaracterized her reaction to this whole situation.
    The same day that article was published online he drove all the way up to Bellingham and posed as a photog assistant to get my story.
    I did sign a release for the photos, I didn’t get paid for them.

    Gennette (55c21d)

  212. Gennette – thank you – I hadn’t seen this post til now.

    Now I’ve gotten my questions answered. Just seemed a little funny – no video chat – reporters hadn’t seen you – what if you were spinning on the NY Post story, etc. IOW could someone posing as the real you be responsible for commenting here etc. & giving the interview to the NYT.

    Anyway, thanks again.

    Miranda (4104db)

  213. @Patterico

    This is incorrect:
    What’s more, Gennette says that she and Weiner discussed the fact that Nikki was fake — and likely conservative troll Dan Wolfe — before she or Weiner ever talked to Nikki.

    Gennette (fc0584)

  214. Gennette,

    Sorry, could you give me the correct language?

    Patterico (f724ca)

  215. It’s no big deal.
    We discussed Nikki being fake before HE ever communicated with her. I had been communicating with her for a week before I discussed it with him.

    Gennette (fc0584)

  216. Fixed. Thanks.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  217. Still don’t care. Not sure what big shennanigans people are so desparate to cover up. Nothing you have written about, with the exception of the threats, amounts to much. Posing as someone else on-line? Big whup.

    Even the threats sound more like an unbalance person then a vast criminal conspiracy you imply.

    Aside from teh threats, explain what you believe is the criminality or anything worth “covering up” here?

    Posing online as another person? How is posing as “Nicki” any different than posing as “Monkeytoe”?

    All mysteries are a little interesting, but this seems to be a mountain made of the molehill.

    Monkeytoe (5234ab)


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