Patterico's Pontifications

8/7/2011

For Whom the Downgrade Tolls

Filed under: General — Karl @ 4:00 am



[Posted by Karl]

Standard & Poor’s decision to downgrade the US government’s AAA credit rating tolls for all of us, of course. However, it tolls for the left in ways they have not fully grasped.

The partisan left — and the establishment media supporting it — naturally seeks a short-term advantage from the event. They will cherry-pick S&P’s explanation of the downgrade for the comments about taxes and Republican opposition to higher taxes in an attempt to place all the blame on the GOP. They will ignore S&P’s rationale for the downgrade is their judgment that “further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed” as well as their criticism of the debt deiling deal as envisioning “only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability.” They will hide behind S&P’s curious refusal to identify the Democrats as the chief obstacle to entitlement reform, despite the House GOP’s passage of a bugdet containing serious structural reforms. The undisputed fact that Pres. Obama blew up a larger budget deal in which House Speaker Boehner agreed to $800 billion in revenue will be thrown down the memory hole. The blame battle will have to be fought to blunt the short-term advantage the partisan left wants.

However, the reaction of the Obama Administration and the ideological left is more telling. The first reaction of the administration was not to blame the GOP, but to attack S&P’s math, as though a couple of trillion makes the difference in this context. My initial hypothesis was that the administration took this tack to try to scare the Moody’s and Fitch — the other major credit ratings agencies — away from following S&P into issuing downgrades. Certainly, there are real-world effects off a downgrade on interest rates, economic growth, and employment that would motivate the administration to this end. Upon further consideration, I would suggest the reaction against S&P have deeper ideological roots.

Consider the hysterical atatcks launched by Democratic National Committee communications director Brad Woodhouse, and lefty pundits like Paul Krugman and Robert Reich, echoed in establishment media coverage from people like TIME’s Massimo Calabresi. This bit from Reich encapsulates them nicely:

Pardon me for asking, but who gave Standard & Poor’s the authority to tell America how much debt it has to shed, and how?

If we pay our bills, we’re a good credit risk. If we don’t, or aren’t likely to, we’re a bad credit risk. When, how, and by how much we bring down the long term debt — or, more accurately, the ratio of debt to GDP — is none of S&P’s business.

S&P’s intrusion into American politics is also ironic because, as I pointed out recently, much of our current debt is directly or indirectly due to S&P’s failures (along with the failures of the two other major credit-rating agencies — Fitch and Moody’s) to do their jobs before the financial meltdown.

Even shorter: How dare they!? How dare they judge our government’s fiscal irresponsibility, especially after they gave Wall Street a pass!?

Of course, it is simply childish to attack the credit agencies for doing their jobs now because they failed in the past. It is equally childish to expect that assessing sovereign credit risk can somehow exclude political assessments. To be sure, the political judgment of Standard & Poors is not immune from legitimate questioning. For example, before the downgrade, IHS Global Insight Chief Economist Nariman Behravesh argued S&P was making unrealistic demands because lawmakers were unlikely to agree to a major deficit reduction package until after next year’s elections. Lefty pundit Kevin Drum may quibble that S&P “shouldn’t be in the business of commenting on a country’s political spats unless they’ve been going on so long that they’re likely to have a real, concrete impact on the safety of a country’s bonds.” The right may question whether S&P’s explanation over-emphasized the political conflict over taxes, in light of the fact that entitlements are the much larger problem (indeed, even Krugman concedes the real problem is health-care costs, though I suspect he differs with the right on the appropriate reforms necessary).

However, what the infantile, illogical, ad hominem attacks on S&P from the DNC and the ideological left reflect is that anyone can debate the political assessments made by the credit rating agencies, but it is difficult to campaign against them — and even more difficult to campaign against the judgment of global financial markets generally. Perhaps in the future, community organizers will bus hoboes to chant outside the houses of credit agency employees. Or perhaps Big Labor will organize rallies on Wall Street to rail against the evil bond market. But such efforts will be largely futile. Moreover, the DNC and AARP are not going to waste money running issue advocacy ads against our creditors, even though it would be vaguely amusing to see them roll out actors dressed as aristocratic bond vigilantes for demonization. It might be easier to run ads attacking our largest creditor, China, but it is a fair bet that the PRC would not care all that much, either.

In sum, the S&P downgrade marks a post on the road where progressive demagogy loses its power. The downgrade marks a post on the road to extinction for 19th-20th century progressivism. That’s why the Obama administration — and true progressive ideologues — made S&P their first target, however futile the gesture.

–Karl

361 Responses to “For Whom the Downgrade Tolls”

  1. If I can play devil’s advocate here ….

    S & P aren’t best known for their ethics or for their integrity. They have been known to accept bribes to give favorable ratings to their clients.

    Who are those people anyway? What exactly are their qualifications to make such assessments, which are, in fact, just their opinions?

    As far as I know, they have just had the good luck to have not suffered any significant losses during “crashes” over the past 50, 60 or 70 years.

    This is extremely irresponsible and just plain nutsy to let them have such an effect on our economy. This is not a legitimate excuse to raise interest rates.

    For the sake of our economy’s stability, I hope that somebody in this current administration of chronic screw-ups has sense enough to put this development in its proper perspective. We can be sure that the dummies in the msm won’t realize that this is not all that big of a deal. As usual, they don’t have a clue what is going on.

    Summit, NJ (75c9eb)

  2. The problem with the Dems cherrypicking the S&P report for comments to make it appear that it’s the GOP’s opposition to raising taxes is manifold.

    The big three rating agencies have been warning of a downgrade to the US’s credit rating since nearly a year to the day of Obama getting elected.

    In a Feb 7, 2010 with Tim Geithner, ABC’s Jake Tapper asked about the rumblings from the rating agencies that Obama’s damage to the debt would cause a downgrade. Tim Geithner, in usual form, said there was no chance.

    In March 2010, the NYT ran an article saying the same thing. The rating agencies were alarmed at the spending, and threatening a downgrade.

    No “Tea Party terrorists” were involved.

    Another problem, that maybe only I have, is that tax revenue rose to record levels following Bush’s tax cuts. During the height of the dot com bubble tax revenues were 2.01 trillion USD. When the the economy recovered from both the bubble bursting and 9/11, revenues grew to nearly 2.6 trillion USD.

    What cost was involved, other than in the alternative world of the CBO where it’s assumed people won’t change their behavior when that behavior punished financially?

    Steve (4b1889)

  3. BTW, what reasons would have to suspect that this sleazy current administration [wanted this to happan] and that they are now only pretending to be critical of S & P, all just so that they can further destabiize capitalism and replace it with their “greenie”, socialist agenda? There are too many odd coincidences here. There is something very fishy about S & P’s rating.

    Summit, NJ (75c9eb)

  4. Who are those people anyway? What exactly are their qualifications to make such assessments…

    Who are these people? The Nationally Recognized Statistical Rating Organizations approved by the SEC. What are their qualifications? Those established by the SEC in order to meet the criteria established by the commission to make exactly these sorts of assessments for a variety of regulatory purposes.

    For instance, banks, insurance companies, pension funds, money market funds, etc., must meet what are basically capital requirements. They must hold sufficient amounts of high grade investments, as established by one of these accredited ratings agencies, to cover their liabilities. Regulators can require the companies they regulate to hold triple a bonds. That’s no longer US treasuries.

    If you don’t like the way S&P operates, at least one rating organization has a different business model. Egan-Jones isn’t paid by the bond issuer to provide ratings; it’s paid by the investor. Consequently, they don’t have the same conflict of interest, aren’t susceptible to the same temptation of a bribe, to provide an overly generous rating to bonds issued by what effectively is its employer.

    But then, Egan-Jones downgraded the US credit rating to AA months ago. So you could make a case that it’s only that conflict of interest that kept the “big three” from downgrading or threatening to downgrade the US’s rating until this late in the year.

    But the downgrade will have at least one impact. Entities that must hold bonds of a certain quality to meet their capital requirements will have to buy better or at least more bonds to meet those requirements, as AAA bonds provide greater insurance the companies can cover their liabilities better than AA bonds. That’ll suck capital out of the economy.

    Steve (4b1889)

  5. #4 – Steve, I hope you hang around here, so that I can catch you again after breakfast. I have some questions for you. (If I miss you, thanks for your comments. I’ll catch you again sometime.)

    Summit, NJ (75c9eb)

  6. S&P’s downgrade is accurate, understated, and overdue. Fiscal irresponsibility has been the defining characteristic of this Administration since day one. That’s the most significant fact of this economic emergency and it can’t be reasonably disputed by honest observers.

    Barack Obama didn’t invent excessive government spending, prior Administrations are guilty of similar excesses, but not to the same stupefying extent. When it comes to unrestrained spending, Obama and his Democrat enablers in Congress combined with his Hallelujah chorus in the establishment media have done far more damage to our national solvency in two and a half short years than any previous enemy foreign or domestic has been able to inflict on us since the early years of the 1860s.

    It’s no surprise Democrats are attacking the S&P’s methods either, retaliatory counterattack is standard procedure. If Democrats can’t find a way to push back they fall back on charges of bias. Remember the Journolist’s recommended gambit? Just pick a target and scream “racist.”

    Next, in the Democrat’s playbook for evading responsibility is to identify a scapegoat to blame, this time it’s going to be the usual tried and true suspects in the GOP and the new whipping boy, the TEA Party. Combined, they’re the ones Democrats have designated to take the heat for Obama’s malfeasance in office.

    Being a Democrat means someone else is always to blame. And, it also means never having a new idea.

    ropelight (5c0c02)

  7. S&P is a rating agency. China on the other hand is our major credtor–and China has said we have to end our addiction to debt. When the bank won’t lend you any more money, then what happens?

    Comanche Voter (0e06a9)

  8. What they mean is “Who the hell are they to downgrade us without putting the blame on the Republicans?”

    Israel P. (20e10b)

  9. “What they mean is “Who the hell are they to downgrade us without putting the blame on the Republicans?”

    Actually they put most of the blame on the Repbulicans. They saw, heard, and understood all the debt negotiations and related events just as did all the rest of us. They have also witnessed the behaviour of the left for years and understand the violence and hysteria to which they resort when confronted. Wisconsin has not been lost on them, just as Fast and Furious, involving even the FBI and IRS has not been lost on them. The fact that they were willing to confront their fears and issue a correct rating at all is just amazing. The next election may very well determine the future of our country forever.

    willis (01cecd)

  10. To see our debt and spending crisis in the larger Western European context, read Janet Daley’s lead article in The Telegraph.

    She’s brave enough to look directly at the root cause:

    If we are to survive the looming catastrophe, we need to face the truth
    The idea that a capitalist economy can support a socialist welfare state is collapsing before our eyes.

    She also faces the political resistance:

    The hardest obstacle to overcome will be the idea that anyone who challenges the prevailing consensus of the past 50 years is irrational and irresponsible. That is what is being said about the Tea Partiers. In fact, what is irrational and irresponsible is the assumption that we can go on as we are.

    ropelight (5c0c02)

  11. 7. S&P is a rating agency. China on the other hand is our major credtor–and China has said we have to end our addiction to debt. When the bank won’t lend
    you any more money, then what happens?

    Then the treasury just gets the federal reserve to buy even more of the worthless paper. Unfortunately that cycle likely can go on forever. The Fed is already buying upwards of 75% of every bond issue. So China may be our major foreign lender at this point, but they are hardly /the/ major buyer of US debt.

    Soronel Haetir (29fbb7)

  12. Steve: Yes, please hang around…interesting information from you so far.

    Old Coot (8f79ab)

  13. What Steve said is the truth.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  14. and even more difficult to campaign against the judgment of global financial markets generally.

    You mean like the global financial markets which allow us to borrow at almost zero (2.3%) and the keep the dollar stable? Or, is the global market you refer to the sudden fascination with deficits which you and Limbaugh discovered in 2009? ‘Cause that’s not exactly a global market.

    You and yours caused this, Karl, because in your jihad against America’s middle class, you threatened to NOT pay our bills. As Felix Salmon noted, sovereign debt ratings are measurements of political abilities to manage crises. You people have proved you are unwilling to pay the taxes necessary to pull us out of debt. The President, after all, put entitlements on the table….you jackasses won’t even close oil and gas loopholes.

    In fact, this entire post is proof of the immaturity of the Republican base. Instead of noting (beyond a throw away sentence in the first paragraph) how terrible this is for your recently hated budget deficit (Reuters had a story yesterday that this will add 100 billion to the deficit…thanks Tea Partiers), you spend the entire post on how bad this is for the Left. Seeking partisan advantage in a time like this? Disgusting.

    And, sure, I understand that replying to the post of a partisan hack, on a site full of people whose only fascination is rooting for the Greens versus the Blues* is pointless. You believe insane things, because that’s what you do. On the road to Neo-feudalsim, you people are the cheerleaders.

    *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots

    timb (8f04c0)

  15. Wow. Such language. Try decaff, dude. “Insane”? “Jihad”? It’s like you suddenly have discovered you were a rube in 2008: hope and change became thumb fingered Chicago pols. Regarding the debt: don’t you think both sides have some issues here? Because you aren’t a partisan hack, right?

    Simon Jester (c47db4)

  16. Irony, thy name is timb (partisan hack).

    O/T imdw has been frantically trying to post a comment and obviously wondering why it’s not working. Sad really. Not.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  17. Under his own name, Stashiu3?

    As for Progressive Projection, well, it’s pretty common.

    Simon Jester (c47db4)

  18. Under his own name, Stashiu3?
    Comment by Simon Jester — 8/7/2011 @ 8:16 am

    Under a variety of names and using an anonymizer, as usual. He clearly can’t figure out why none of them are working. Heh.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  19. Say, he wouldn’t be you know who, would he?

    Kudos to your blog Fu skillz.

    Simon Jester (c47db4)

  20. And imdw, using a different anonymizer won’t help this time. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  21. Nope, not sparty… or he’d have been gone long ago.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  22. Apologies to Karl for the digression, but it was a little too tempting considering it was this thread imdw tried to invade. Please return to the topic at hand.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  23. Pain is here.

    We have had many chances over decades to prevent this, most recently Obama’s 2010 Commission on Fiscal Responsiblity and Reform. We all know how that turned out. Taxes are going to have to be raised on the wealthy and high-earners, as they benefit most from a civil, orderly and free society. Spending is going to have to be cut, too, and the 47% of households that pay no Federal taxes will scream the loudest. Blame, elections, priorities, social values and agendas, etc. all obfuscate this mathematical problem.

    Pain is here.

    Timesdisliker (69b37c)

  24. I was not at all happy with the increased spending under Bush but Obama has been Bush on steroids and he shows no sign of willingness to cut even the 7% rate of increase in the budget. Base line budgeting is the problem. If we could cut 1% from the 2008 budget or better yet the 2006 budget S&P would restore our AAA rating because a few (7) years of this approach would get us to a balanced budget. Every department should be able to find a 1% reduction in spending. I am on social security and would definitely be willing to take a 1% percent cut or even 5% if that would get us to a balanced budget. But I also think programs targeted to a single part of the country, I.e. Cowboy poetry should completely be stopped. There is no reason for the Federal government to take my tax dollars, (yes hubby and I are big net tax payers) and pay for idiot programs like cowboy poetry or studies of the sex practices of Chinese hookers, etc.

    Sorry, rant off. Although I could go on forever about wasteful spending…

    Texas Mom 2012 (cee89f)

  25. The angry hatey stalkerish ambulance chaser just opened a wormhole in the space-time continuum with the cognitive dissonance that comment had to produce.

    JD (85b089)

  26. when we fund Peoples
    Liberation Army of
    China it’s over

    ColonelHaiku (d1f5ff)

  27. You and yours caused this, Karl, because in your jihad against America’s middle class, you threatened to NOT pay our bills.

    LOL at timmy’s goonfiction–you and yours, Timmy, claimed it would be financial chaos and the markets would crash if the debt ceiling wasn’t raised. You and yours dissembled on what exactly constituted a default, and equated cuts in the growth of spending with murder and destruction. Most tellingly, you and yours avoided a golden opportunity to actually lay out in hard detail what would be needed to get the country solvent again.

    The simple fact is that S&P had warned the US that if roughly $4 trillion wasn’t cut, we’d get downgraded. Nowhere and at NO TIME did the administration or the Dems in both houses of Congress take the initiative to actually come up with a plan that did this, which would have completely undercut what Boehner put together.

    And now you and yours are crying about financial chaos? You’re right in there along with everyone else, dummy.

    Another Chris (c983db)

  28. The Brits invested heavily in Germany, in the prewar period, that is clear from Ferguson’s ‘Pity of War’ and his Rothschild series, needless to say,
    that didn’t work out well,

    ian cormac (81c5c2)

  29. Seeking partisan advantage in a time like this? Disgusting.

    Coming from a liber progressive, that is a triple-thick milkshake of ironic deliciousness.

    ColonelHaiku (d1f5ff)

  30. I don’t understand why the dollar has any value at all. What backs up its value, blind trust in these discredited institutions? It seems to me that what makes a currency legitimate is if the currency maker decided to get out of the money making business you could turn those notes in for its equivalence of whatever it was that backed up its value. It might have been a good idea at one time to have national currencies, but we should have independent currency makers now and people could accept or reject these currencies as a matter of choice. You can bet that money would be backed up with something of intrinsic value.

    j curtis (69845a)

  31. timb raises the Krugman talking point about interest rates. What Krugman — and thus timb — fail to note is that this is in no small part to do with the even worse situation in Europe. After all, if they pointed this out, folks might start wondering why the left thinks adopting democratic socialism would have a better result than what we have now.

    There’s also the talking point about how I or Limbaugh didn’t care about deficits in the 2000s. I’d like him to prove it. The reality is that the people who complained loudest about G.W. Bush’s tendency toward big spending are precisely the sort of people timb most loathes — the Michelle Malkins and Jonah Goldbergs of the world. Same was true of National Review in general. As for Limbaugh specifically, I would suggest timb is relying on some typical MMfA tripe that per usual, doesn’t really say what they claim in the headline (here’s Limbaugh on Medicare Part D). And he’s not going to find anything of mine not caring about the deficit. But timb thrves on his imagined view of the right, not an actual reading of them.

    Karl (37b303)

  32. We have had many chances over decades to prevent this, most recently Obama’s 2010 Commission on Fiscal Responsiblity and Reform.

    The problem is that Simpson has now blatantly admitted that Obama was never going to consider that plan. So essentially, both he and Bowles did a whole lot of work and wasted a lot of people’s time on something that was nothing more than a Potemkin effort.

    Another Chris (c983db)

  33. timb raises the Krugman talking point about interest rates. What Krugman — and thus timb — fail to note is that this is in no small part to do with the even worse situation in Europe.

    timmy and Krugman also seem to not understand how exponential functions work.

    http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=190082

    Another Chris (c983db)

  34. Honestly, Karl, the spleen of these people is driven by the fact they feel foolish: the thought they elected a Knight, and what they got was a Knave. They don’t dare admit it (or they would admit to being rubes), so they overreact against their “opponents.” Hence the projection and the hypocrisy.

    I mean, look at the anger toward many Republican politicians shown here. I don’t see much of that on the Left, directed at Reid or Pelosi or Boxer.

    Simon Jester (c47db4)

  35. Speaking of echo chambers.

    Simon Jester (c47db4)

  36. Simpson went further in his Politico piece, suggesting that Obama was smart not to adopt his plan, ‘facepalm with an Octopus’

    ian cormac (81c5c2)

  37. The Hidden History of the Debt Limit Hijack: Democrats Started It

    timb doesn’t even read enough lefty blogs. Sad, really.

    Karl (37b303)

  38. Karl, it’s not about facts. It’s about how they feel…about themselves.

    Simon Jester (c47db4)

  39. Simon,

    The funniest thing about this? Note that, by timestamp, I had all those response links in less than an hor. In real-time, I assembled them in about 10 minutes after stopping by the site @ 8:35 blog-time. How was I so fast? Because the talking point is so old and so tired that I have the responses bookmarked.

    Karl (37b303)

  40. triple thick milkshake
    wash down my debt sammich but
    aftertaste lingers

    Timesdisaiku (69b37c)

  41. Wrong again Karl, at least you are consistent.

    The GOP dog wagged by its teatard caucus tail, owns this one completely and exclusively. And while I’m sure you won’t have any trouble convincing anyone here in the echo chamber. The public ain’t buyin it and neither are the usual “both sides do it” suspects in the press, not this time.

    Spartacvs (2d9449)

  42. Notice how our little troll won’t “own” his comments about Patterico? He just runs away…his mouth wrote a check he can’t cash.

    Simon Jester (c47db4)

  43. And honestly? Your lack of civility—“teatards”, really?—earn you the respect you don’t receive here. You arrived on the scene acting like a jerk.

    Why not go away, since this is an echo chamber? Unless you are just a little troll.

    Simon Jester (c47db4)

  44. Spart,

    I refer you to comment #37, as well as the undisputed fact that Boehner put $800 billion in revenue on the table. What the public buys is influenced more by what the left’s enablers in the MSM report than the facts on the ground, I’ll give you that.

    Karl (37b303)

  45. Comment by Spartacvs — 8/7/2011 @ 9:15 am

    And the other math-deficient goon takes a break from his Sunday “My Little Pony” marathon to make an appearance.

    Another Chris (c983db)

  46. Ooh Spartacus has opined! Wow, I never knew that. I am like, so completely convinced.

    Wonder if Sparty is getting his talking points from Rachel Madcow and Larry Summers–both of whom buffooned themselves on the talk shows th is morning. But then, what else is new.

    Comanche Voter (0e06a9)

  47. I think all of you give the troll far too much credit. He is clearly a previously banned troll who doesn’t like Patterico and is working off his envy and anger. I don’t think he believes in much at all, other than verbal bomb throwing.

    Simon Jester (c47db4)

  48. According to the left we need to pay our fair share in taxes but they believe higher taxes should only go one way.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  49. Excellent post Karl. Only Monty at Ace’s is as consistent a performer and his genre is narrower.

    The Markets have validated TEAs and nailed notice of the failure of government to the wall.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  50. Simpson went further in his Politico piece, suggesting that Obama was smart not to adopt his plan, ‘facepalm with an Octopus’

    alan simpson was
    never thought the sharpest tool
    in Halls of Congress

    ColonelHaiku (d1f5ff)

  51. gary,

    Thanks; I’m a Monty fan also.

    Karl (37b303)

  52. It is beyond dispite that spurty is both stupid and dishonest.

    JD (109425)

  53. “Taxes are going to have to be raised on the wealthy and high-earners, as they benefit most from a civil, orderly and free society.”

    Really? The rest of us get little or nothing from a civil, orderly and free society? How bizarre.

    willis (01cecd)

  54. Dispite should be dispute

    JD (822109)

  55. This means nothing to most people,
    because the Democrats’ slimy shills
    in the msm aren’t telling them how
    this development will affect them.
    Well, not in a proper perspective.

    Steve? Are you still here?

    Summit, NJ (75c9eb)

  56. “owns this one completely and exclusively.”

    Spvrty and timb – Apparently S&P was not impressed by Obama’s plan to get the U.S. to live within its means. Have either of you seen his plan?

    He put entitlements on the table? Where? In his plan? Have you seen his plan? In a speech? Is a speech a plan?

    Democrat Congressional leaders publicly said entitlement reform was off the table. Have you seen any plans from Democrat Congressional leaders to live within our fiscal means? I have not. The Senate has not produced a budget in more than two years.

    Blaming the GOP for taking a hard line on tax increases on the rich is a ludicrous argument. The rich don’t have enough money to solve our deficit problems. You know that yet you keep bringing it up like spoiled children.

    We have a spending problem and the Democrats are not serious about addressing it. Go figure.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  57. President Clinton’s dwarf economist wrote:

    Pardon me for asking, but who gave Standard & Poor’s the authority to tell America how much debt it has to shed, and how?

    How about James Madison, prime mover of the First Amendment?

    Standard & Poor’s has every right to express its opinion, and did so within the scope of its professional competence. And S&P gave every warning that this would happen.

    S&P is also not immune from criticism for the downgrade; that’s freedom of speech, too. Nor is anybody obligated to accept the Standard & Poor’s assessment; there are other credit rating agencies which haven’t (yet) taken this action. But the fact that the various stock markets which are open on Sunday do seem to have accepted S&P’s downgrade as serious tells me that a lot of investors do look at the downgrade, and accept it as a realistic assessment.

    The urinated-off Dana (f68855)

  58. Karl, the drumbeat (unintentional pun) is beginning. My left of center pals on FaceBook are posting all kinds of bad stuff about S&P, and how their opinions don’t matter.

    So they got their marching orders.

    On the other hand, if S&P had done this during GWB’s administration, what do you think the Left would have said about S&P? Sigh.

    Partisan hacks.

    Simon Jester (c47db4)

  59. When told by someone (Tango-India-Metro-Bravo) who has never listened, that Rush just discovered deficits in ’09, you only have to hope that his minders find him, and return him to that secure location where he can’t hurt himself, before tragedy occurs.

    The ideological Left is in full-denial mode; and it is a long bet as to whether they can come to grip with reality (personally, I think the window is closed on that one, for the bookies have nowhere to lay off the action).

    AD-RtR/OS! (91652f)

  60. Found the theme song for Spvrty and timb.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  61. _____________________________________________

    I don’t understand why the dollar has any value at all. What backs up its value, blind trust in these discredited institutions?

    I generally assume the statistics released by presumably authoritative, reliable sources can be taken at face value. But when I observe the oddness and peculiar contradictions of what’s indicated below, I have to wonder if data-gathering methods are somehow distorted or if people in high positions (eg, at the IMF, etc) who should be scratching their head and going “huh??! wtf!” instead close their eyes and whistle a merry little tune—btw, the stats below from the IMF are pretty much in line with figures from the CIA World Handbook.

    Maybe the unemployment statistics of our neighbor to the south are accurate. If so, that sure stretches reality as we know it. But perhaps Mexico is sort of a Potemkin Village in reverse, in which a facade of desperately poor immigrants streaming into the US, shantytowns and lots of dysfunction (headless bodies and mass graves due to narco-terrorism) conceals a society that, at least in terms of employment, truly is a shining beacon of the American continent.

    McCullough and townhall.com generally lean to the right. But it appears that the author’s understandable dislike of Obama made him momentarily take his eye off the ball, in which he overlooked the surprising (or actually even laughable) nature of that which he was using to make his point:

    Townhall.com, Kevin McCullough, July 31, 2011:

    This week the Mexican Consulate to Sacramento California proclaimed, “We have become a middle class country!” Oh, if only President Obama could say the same.

    See, for Mexico to bootstrap its way to middle class status, lots of things had to change from only a few years ago. Finance markets had to open up. People needed to access education, and ultimately people needed to be able to work. And work they are south of the border.

    Sporting a brand new unemployment rate of just under 5%, the current Mexican economy is humming, people are buying homes and people are working.

    …Do you realize that America has the worst economy on our continent? White House officials will get unbelievably angry when this is pointed out, but 5% unemployment was what this nation enjoyed under President Bush. So what did President Bush know, and what do Mexico and Canada now know that President Obama doesn’t know?

    indexmundi.com

    MEXICO UNEMPLOYMENT RATE

    1980…1.2
    1981…0.9
    1982…4.2
    1983…6.1
    1984…5.6
    1985…4.4
    1986…4.3
    1987…3.883
    1988…3.542
    1989…2.925
    1990…2.742
    1991…2.692
    1992…2.83
    1993…3.43
    1994…3.7
    1995…6.23
    1996…5.45
    1997…3.73
    1998…3.16
    1999…2.5
    2000…2.2
    2001…2.757
    2002…2.978
    2003…3.406
    2004…3.916
    2005…3.579
    2006…3.592
    2007…3.718
    2008…3.958
    2009…5.467
    2010…5

    Source: International Monetary Fund

    ^ I wonder if this is sort of a variation of the ridiculous type of cherry picking evident in news coverage over the past several months of mobs rampaging and/or looting in Wisconsin, Illinois, etc, and London last night. IOW, where the “who, what, when, where, how and why” of a story is purposefully ignored or edited out.
    _____________________________________________

    Mark (411533)

  62. I remember back when the Stimulus was being debated. The left quoted Keynes as saying it didn’t matter where or how the money was spent but that it just needed to be spent. The people in complete power in Washington two-and-a-half years ago (the Dems) took this as a reason to fund all sorts of stupid pet-projects such as green jobs, bailing out auto makers (because they had lots of union workers) and my favorite, Cash for Clunkers. The later is a microcosm for liberal programs. It provided no lasting benefit other than penalizing responsible people in favor of irresponsible ones.

    Looking back, it was flushing the money down the toilet. But if people can remember one thing it should be no House Republican voted for it and only a couple of brain dead ones did in the Senate. The truth is that Obama and his goons took a bad situation and made it a lot worse. Yes, call it Bush on steroids. Bush was an idiot for thinking he could make nice with the left with prescription drugs and education.

    We will see how much cover the media will give Obama but I think conservatives should be ready for more of the same demonization.

    AZ Bob (aa856e)

  63. Karl, the drumbeat (unintentional pun) is beginning. My left of center pals on FaceBook are posting all kinds of bad stuff about S&P, and how their opinions don’t matter.

    You need to start trolling them and ask them why they weren’t calling S&P an illegitimate institution until after they downgraded our credit rating. Then follow up with why they didn’t make any noise about said illegitimacy when Japan, Canada, and New Zealand were also downgraded to AA+. The dissembling and equivocation should make for some interesting political theater.

    Another Chris (c983db)

  64. Seven members of the Senate Budget Committee threatened during a Tuesday hearing to withhold their support for critical legislation to raise the debt ceiling if the bill calling for the creation of a bipartisan fiscal reform commission were not attached

    And so the Cat Food Commission was born.

    But you are barking up the false equivalence tree again. It’s not like recent votes to increase the debt limit have all been unanimous and one of these things is not like the other – threatening to withhold support unless a bipartisan fiscal reform commission is created and actually withholding support until draconian spending cuts are imposed outside the budget process.

    Also,

    the left’s enablers in the MSM

    an old saw that has lost it potency outside the echo chamber.

    Spartacvs (2d9449)

  65. How sweet of timmah & Sparticles to drive by, drop off their usual “everything is the fault of your side” ad hom spew, and then go away.

    Icy Texan (08b9d8)

  66. Glenn has a column over at the DC Examiner touting his Revolving Door Tax, and other purposes, this morning.
    He also makes the point that perhaps the GOP needs to give the Left what they are clamoring for:
    Increased taxes on THE RICH (who seem to vote for, and contribute to, overwhelmingly the Left).

    I say (again) hit them with a 98% (well, we don’t want to be vindictive) marginal rate on all income and benefits over (you pick the number) – worded in such a manner that the Warren Buffet’s and George Clooney’s will have to pay-pay-pay until they squeal.

    AD-RtR/OS! (91652f)

  67. john kerry opine
    “tea party downgrade” colonel
    ask where Magic Hat?

    ColonelHaiku (d1f5ff)

  68. “Seven members of the Senate Budget Committee threatened during a Tuesday hearing to withhold their support for critical legislation to raise the debt ceiling if the bill calling for the creation of a bipartisan fiscal reform commission were not attached”

    Spvrty – Those were Democrats hijacking the process even back then, derailing your GOP held the country hostage meme, dimwit.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  69. And — of course — as soon as I type that, one of them comes back. Oy!

    Icy Texan (08b9d8)

  70. Cult of personality by living colour would be a better theme for the obot mafia members.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  71. “an old saw that has lost it potency outside the echo chamber.”

    Spvrty – Open your good eye and read recent surveys about media bias.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  72. Mexico’s unemployment numbers look so good since the government there counts all of the “undocumented” in El Norte as employed.

    AD-RtR/OS! (91652f)

  73. But you are barking up the false equivalence tree again.

    Funny, you’ve been barking up the basic math deficiency tree for quite some time.

    Another Chris (c983db)

  74. In the world of Sparticles, voting one’s conscience and holding true to your beliefs is considered a criminal, terroristic act.

    Icy Texan (08b9d8)

  75. Spartacvs (65),

    Congress voted on a clean debt ceiling hike. It failed on a bipartisan basis.

    Also, the same near-majority as always thinks the MSM enables the left. Indeed, 39% of centrists endorse the idea that the media favor Democrats while only 19% think they favor Republicans. That’s more than 2:1.

    Karl (37b303)

  76. So many words, so little reality. How about David Beers on FNS, it was the gridlock. The world saw/heard the House appear to be willing to default. Boehner got “98% of what we want.” The left got a “SatanSandwich.” Yeh, the Teapublicons own this.

    tifosa (176568)

  77. Tifosa was kind of predictable, no?

    JD (318f81)

  78. voting one’s conscience and holding true to your beliefs is considered a criminal, terroristic act.

    It’s economic terrorism when voting one’s conscience and holding true to your beliefs involves holding the nations economy and the full faith and credit of the US hostage for the 1st time in history, sure. We don’t have a debt crisis, we have a political crisis manufactured around the debt issue.

    Spartacvs (2d9449)

  79. Hey sparticvs? Enjoy being schooled? I loved you trying to debate Karl.

    Emphasis on the word “trying.”

    Simon Jester (c35351)

  80. Karl, watch little troll shuck and jive. “That’s different!” with a foot stomp is his battle cry.

    Simon Jester (c35351)

  81. Note how effortlessly sporty and tifosa just make shlt up.

    JD (318f81)

  82. The only person in the entire process that threatened default was Barcky.

    JD (318f81)

  83. tifosa,

    Boehner agreed to $800 billion in revenue. Who caused the gridlock?

    Karl (37b303)

  84. “It’s economic terrorism when voting one’s conscience and holding true to your beliefs involves holding the nations economy and the full faith and credit of the US hostage for the 1st time in history”

    Spvrty – Why didn’t the president give S&P a plan for the U.S. living within our fiscal means? He doesn’t have one, does he?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  85. Ahha, Daffy Duck is here again, sputtering about us wascally Wepublicans, of whom he is so envious and jealous.

    Summit, NJ (75c9eb)

  86. The “Government” is stealing my identity and running up charges on phony credit cards to pay off their friends for campaign cash, get out the vote, illegal votes, etc. in my name–telling me I am a terrorist and calling me homosexual for objecting. And I am the problem.

    Where can I go to get these criminals off my, and my kids, backs.

    BfC (2ebea6)

  87. Karl:

    http://www.dallasblog.com/201108051008311/dallas-blog/amidst-obama-depression-president-plays-golf.html

    Well, at least he hasn’t taken up the violin.

    Tone-deaf, isn’t he?

    Simon Jester (c35351)

  88. #54Really? The rest of us get little or nothing from a civil, orderly and free society? How bizarre. Comment by willis — 8/7/2011 @ 9:42 am
    willis, the ‘straw man’ doesn’t become you.

    Timesdisaiku (69b37c)

  89. Karl – The echo chamber in Spvrty’s empty head tells him things.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  90. it would have helped if tom coburn and the other gang of six pansies had kept their whore mouths shut and not dangled 1.2 trillion of revenues in front of spendy spendy president bumble

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  91. So many words, so little reality.
    Comment by tifosa — 8/7/2011 @ 10:15 am

    — Rather than opening with that line, use it as your sign-off and you will be just fine.

    Icy Texan (08b9d8)

  92. Yes, well that worked as well his friendship with then Senator Obama, who the latter used to excuse
    his association with Bill Ayers.

    ian cormac (81c5c2)

  93. _________________________________________________

    Increased taxes on THE RICH (who seem to vote for, and contribute to, overwhelmingly the Left).

    mackinac.org: Presidents Herbert Hoover and Franklin Roosevelt, using the excuses of depression and war, permanently enlarged the income tax. Under Herbert Hoover, the top rate was hiked from 24 to 63 percent. Under Franklin Roosevelt, the top rate was again raised — first to 79 percent and later to 90 percent. In 1941, in fact, Roosevelt proposed a 99.5 percent marginal rate on all incomes over $100,000. “Why not?” he said when an advisor questioned this tactic.

    After that proposal failed, Roosevelt issued an executive order to tax all income over $25,000 at the astonishing rate of 100 percent. He also promoted the lowering of personal exemptions to only $600, a tactic that pushed most American families into paying at least some income tax. Congress rescinded Roosevelt’s executive order, but approved the dropping of personal exemptions to only $600.

    Taxhistory.org: When Democrats or Republicans are angry at President Obama, they call him a “Hoover.” By this reference to the 31st president, the commentators mean a laissez faire budget geek who won’t spend, not even to stop an economic disaster. But [that] image of Hoover… is [not] accurate. In fact, commentators misjudge these leaders by willfully taking what they said or did out of context.

    [T]o condemn Hoover as an exception on monetary and fiscal philosophy — as an unusual tightwad — is to misrepresent him. In fact, he spent more than any other gold standard president before him would have done in the same situation. Federal spending rose under Hoover, both in nominal and real dollars. As a share of GDP, federal outlays rose to 5 percent of GDP in 1932 from 2.5 percent in 1929 — a doubling under the Hoover presidency.

    In the same time frame, the federal government went from a budget surplus to a deficit of 2.4 percent. Outlays by state and local governments also rose — but not at the Hoover rate. Hoover and Congress were apparently bigger spenders than the governors.

    …Hoover did not believe in laissez faire economics. Indeed, in a brief manifesto he published in the 1920s, the future president warned against making a “fetiche” of the laissez faire concept. And by temperament, the man was as interventionist as John Kenneth Galbraith. A career spent as the smartest man in the room had only reinforced the instinct Hoover was born with: Jump in and take over. By the time he became president, Hoover was accustomed to telling everyone else what to do, having them do it, and being rewarded for that management style.

    While president, Hoover intervened by signing off on a tariff, Smoot-Hawley, even though more than 1,000 economists wrote him an open letter warning that the tariff would disturb international trade and would not “furnish good soil for the growth of world peace.”

    After the 1929 crash, Hoover also intruded on the economy by publicly goading businesses to keep wages high even when they could ill afford to do so. In the autumn of 1929, just after the crash, Hoover even went as far as to call business leaders to a conference at the White House and then make them sign a public promise that they would “not initiate any movement for wage reduction.”

    Hoover believed strongly in federal help for distressed banks, and he created the Resolution Trust Corp., the model for today’s Troubled Asset Relief Program. He also signed legislation that disbursed funds to the states for public works. If there is a takeaway on Hoover that is relevant for the blogosphere, it is not that his passivity hurt the economy. It is that intervention does not guarantee recovery.

    Taxhistory.org: Consider, for instance, the tax returns of Franklin D. Roosevelt. The returns were not released during FDR’s presidency, but had they been, they would have proved an embarrassment. [A]s a group, they reveal something striking: Roosevelt — a vicious and moralistic scourge of tax avoiders everywhere — had a penchant for minimizing his own taxes.

    Throughout his 12 years in office, Roosevelt was a frequent critic of Americans who tried to avoid taxes, even using legal means. “Mr. Justice Holmes said, ‘Taxes are what we pay for a civilized society,'” Roosevelt told Congress in 1937. “Too many individuals, however, want the civilization at a discount.”

    But Roosevelt’s tax returns reveal him to be something of a hypocrite. At various points, both before and after his election to the White House, he indulged in the sort of tax avoidance that he claimed to find so objectionable.

    In a series of letters to internal revenue officials, Roosevelt insisted that he could not be taxed at the heavy rates imposed on rich taxpayers during the mid-1930s.

    ^ The idiocy and worthlessness of limousine liberalism—be it from a registered Democrat (natch) or a registered Republican. Ya’ gotta love it.

    Mark (411533)

  94. dem theology:

    the current deficit doesn’t matter, as we need to stimulate growth at all costs.

    the current deficit is so bad, we really need to start taxing the private sector to address our long term debt. the effects of a tax increase are irrelevant on the growth of the country.

    three things i learned from the dem congressional majority, and the debt debate.

    1. they were unwilling to pass a budget, despite a massive majority.

    2. they extended the bush tax cuts, which are now the obama tax cuts.

    3. even with their majority in the senate, now, there was never a condition upon which they could have sided with the president, to increase taxes.

    the cold reality:
    there will never be enough political will to raise taxes. the justification of our massive govt spending increases is completely contrary to tax increases.

    if the govt can stimulate itself with borrowed money, why can’t supply siders ask for money to be borrowed upon their behalf?

    is their goal of growth any different from supply siders?

    mark l. (69baf1)

  95. Sorry, those are the Obama/Democratic Congress tax cuts–not Bush’s.

    First taking of hostages where the terrorists are saying to leave them alone and stop giving “the terrorists” money.

    In any case, The democrats cannot even make a budget when they held all three branches of government. And the Republican house has passed several funding measures that Reed/Obama make DOA.

    You sir Reality !, are an idiot.

    BfC (2ebea6)

  96. Reality ! . . . what a concept.

    Icy Texan (08b9d8)

  97. Reality ! – Read the post.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  98. #92 – What BS, you just made that up.

    Summit, NJ (75c9eb)

  99. #32 & #36 Another Chris and ian cormac,
    Simpson is saying Obama was smart, politically. Simpson is making this observation after-the-fact, it wasn’t a prediction. Simpson had 50 years in office to address this problem, and he only spoke the truth when he had to write a white paper nobody would act upon.

    The math doesn’t work, and the markets are speaking. Rhetoric and arguing skills won’t change the math, or the pain that has come, finally.

    Timesdisliker (69b37c)

  100. #104 – LOL, that was satire, right?

    Summit, NJ (75c9eb)

  101. Reality(?) and BfC,

    That’s one of the funniest things about S&P’s explanation. They changed their minds because Obama got rolled on taxes by the GOP. But they didn’t figure that out when Obama got rolled on taxes a few months ago — without the debt ceiling hanging overhead. And it apparently didn’t factor in that if Obama is reelected, he’ll be a lame duck with less to lose by demanding the increases. Kinda sounds like S&P thinks there’s a good chance he won’t be re-elected.

    Karl (37b303)

  102. 92 “reality” sounds very familiar, and is pushing that same mmfa dishonest meme that those before it have pushed. It is not even original.

    JD (318f81)

  103. As usual, Spvrty’s got nothing today. No facts. No coherent arguments. Just plenty of hate.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  104. Sparticles continues to labor under the misconception that the U.S. Government Budget and the U.S. Economy are the exact same thing.

    Inextricably linked? Yes. One and the same? Not!

    Icy Texan (08b9d8)

  105. 104) If that’s your comedy routine, you need some new material,

    ian cormac (81c5c2)

  106. Oh my, do I detect “Alinsky tactics” from the right? Every op-ed, youtube, televised appearance by the Republicans who were not only going to vote against raising the debt ceiling unless cuts occurred, but IN ANY CASE, (read Toomey, Bachmann, etc) were MAJOR drivers of this first downgrade. (Reminder that Boehner walked out of President Obama’s $4.7T plan.) Plus S&P may downgrade again because of the intransigence of the Republicans. They said so themselves (read the pdf.) Also, look at your sources, we are in the 17 month of job GROWTH. While it’s not enough, it’s in the right direction. http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/privatejobs_mar11.jpg

    tifosa (176568)

  107. “S&P’s intrusion into American politics…”

    LOL.

    ‘Cause the last thing you want is a group of American citizens daring to intrude into politics. Next thing you know EVERYONE will be daring to intrude.

    Robert Reich is a great name for a fascist, btw.

    Mila (38e418)

  108. Karl @76

    Ah yes, the meaningless GOP engineered stunt vote. Not sure how you think this reinforces whatever point you were trying to make.

    Also,

    the MSM enables the left

    no Karl, reality favors the left. When reporters report reality that doesn’t necessarily mean they are enabling the left or Dems, it simply means they prefer to report reality over the made up nonsense that gets channeled through Fox.

    Spartacvs (2d9449)

  109. If somebody would have been paying attention, and ignoring Standard and Poor’s attempts to gloss over what was bothering it, and its attempts to avoid influencing events, or appearing political, but studied their remarks carefully, you would have noticed that the reason for this downgrade has nothing to do with the amount of debt the United States takes on – because we are not anywhere near the stage of not being able to make payments. But has only to do with the political crisis in Washington where we came very close, it seems, to not having the debt ceiling raised.

    The difference between AAA and AA may be the slight possibility that a payment may be missed and that doesn’t have to do with the general state of U.S. government finances but only with the amount of political infighting going on.

    You shouldn’t read into this downgrade what you like. Standard and Poor’s is NOT concerned about the deficit. That’s not what’s going on.

    Standard and Poor’s is concerned that with a somewhat different cast of characters or with a repeat of this, the outcome might be different – and the U.S. Treasury lose its ability to borrow.

    It is concerned there could be a repeat of what we saw in July 2011, because there is by no means any kind of agreement in Washington.

    It was the Republican party’s attempts to reduce the deficit that caused the crisis, and therefore it is the Republican Party that s responsible for the downgrade.

    If there would have been a clean debt ceiling increase of $4 trillion with no spending cuts at all, there would not have been a downgrade.

    Standard and Poor’s is not rewarding anyone for attempts made to reduce the deficit. Quite the opposite.

    But still….

    Now a failure to raise the debt authorization still would not result in any missed payments.
    So why is that a problem?

    Moody’s and Fitch actually did not consider this a problem.

    But there is an argument you could make but S&P didn’t do that. It would amount to a really hard anti-Democratic Party point.

    They could have said: We have a president who talks about fairness, who talks about raising taxes on “millionaires and billionaires” rather than doing anything that would impact on lower income people (of course actually Obama is not so interesting in avoiding entitlement cuts etc – no he’s not – he just thinks “a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down” and he thinks higher taxes on the “rich” or higher capital gains taxes even if they cost the government revenue are the sugar needed to make things like reducing future Social Security or Medicare benefits palatable – but you have to listen very very closely to notice this , so we could imagine Standard and Poor’s then saying that by the same token that it is true that a president could prefer to pay bondholders first, he could also prefer NOT to do so, and if there is someone who is president who cares about a little bit of extra of taxes that he wants “millionaire and billionaires” to pay, how much more so would he not want “millionaire and billionaires to get their bond payments on time if it meant delaying checks for disabled veterans?

    Sammy Finkelman (d3de3a)

  110. Whoops, that wasn’t Mila, that was me!

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  111. more dem theology…

    ‘obamacare didn’t add to the debt, as it was paid for…’

    500 billion of entitlement cuts from medicare. another 500 billion of tax collection for ten years.

    final result?
    six years of the program being ‘funded’.

    reality?
    if 10 years of payment gets you 6 years of product, it means the average underfunding is actually is provided:

    average payment into program is 100 billion.
    average output is 166.7 billion.

    obamacare is already underfunded as delivered.

    kudos for the libs having the willingness to cut 500 billion from an entitlement program, and then pivot to attacking the ryan plan for taking another 100 billion.

    if i’m answering the phone at a gop office, and some senior calls:

    we want to put 400 billion back into the system, which the dems had taken. yes, we aren’t giving the full 500 billion back to the program, but the repeal of obamacare will will return 80% of the money that was already taken.

    mark l. (69baf1)

  112. Reich is a true liberal. He makes it clear that citizens shouldn’t dare to intrude into politics (and therefore upset the plans of liberal Dem swine, like Reich) and he also makes it clear that they ought to “do their job”, with their job being whatever Reich thinks it ought to be.

    Give these swine another hundred years in power and we’ll all be slaves.

    No one will be allowed to criticize Dem God-Kings, like Obambi, and the Dems will be assigning jobs, just like their forebearers did in the American south, back in the Dems’ heyday.

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  113. hot tweet : “Dear Tea Party House members, the original Boston Tea Party threw TEA Overboard, NOT the Country.” just sayin :^)

    tifosa (176568)

  114. President Barcky never had a 4.7T plan. That is a lie, and you are a liar. He never had any plan. Not one. And he backed out of the deal that they reached early on, demanding more taxes and less spending not-cuts. They will downgrade again when the left refuses more and actual cuts.

    Sparty – what other names have you commented under?

    JD (318f81)

  115. Spartacvs (114),

    Ah yes, the meaningless GOP engineered stunt vote. Not sure how you think this reinforces whatever point you were trying to make.

    Really don’t get it? Your earlier claim was:

    one of these things is not like the other – threatening to withhold support unless a bipartisan fiscal reform commission is created and actually withholding support until draconian spending cuts are imposed…

    The “stunt vote” proved that not only the GOP, but also about half the Dems were against simply rubber-stamping another debt limit increase without taking steps toward fiscal responsibility. Thus, the talking point that this is some radical GOP notion fails. Glad I could clear that up.

    As for media bias, it’s obviously partly in the eye of the beholder, which is why I highlighted that twice as many centrists see a lefty bias as they do a righty bias.

    Karl (37b303)

  116. Tifosa is just aping mmfa and thinkregress. Again.

    JD (318f81)

  117. Sparty, you like the rule of law–How many times has Obama Care been declared unconstitutional in a Federal Court–once or twice now?

    Isn’t that how liberals roll… Keep court shopping until you find a judge/ruling you like then demand the government stop defending a law/appealing the judgment (and start funding/defunding the decision).

    Save the minorities, women and children–stop the appeals and start the enforcement.

    BfC (2ebea6)

  118. Alinsky #5 JD

    tifosa (176568)

  119. “…the original Boston Tea Party threw TEA Overboard…”

    Excellent point. The original Tea party refused to pay taxes to the fascist British government, which was robbing the Tea Party taxpayers blind, and taxing the Tea Party taxpayers for things which didn’t benefit the Tea Party taxpayers.

    So, when is this Tea Party going to step up to the plate, and do the same?

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  120. Not as many times as it’s been declared constitutional bfc.

    tifosa (176568)

  121. How is it Alinsky if you really are a douchebag, Tiffany?

    Darth Venomous (c8614a)

  122. #106 – Summit, when I write satire it isn’t funny.
    #111 ian, I get that a lot, touché! I usually agree with all your stuff, but I am watching a real life ‘Rollover’ and only now realizing that a lot of people (not you) don’t want this solved. Well, the argument is interesting, hope to see you at the bottom!

    Timesdisliker (69b37c)

  123. Comment by Mark — 8/7/2011 @ 10:33 am

    Hey, I never said it was a good idea, just that perhaps, as a little shadenfreude(sic) the Right should give to the Left what they so earnestly desire, and deserve (at least for a little while)
    To ensure that the engine of investment is not stalled, we could mark invested income as a deduction against the marginal rate.

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  124. If tifosa does not like being ridiculed, he should quit being ridiculous.

    JD (318f81)

  125. Number 27: The simple fact is that S&P had warned the US that if roughly $4 trillion wasn’t cut, we’d get downgrade

    I don’t think they said that. That’s what the Republicans wanted to believe that they said.

    They officially didn’t comment, and everybody was reading their cryptic delphic messages the way they wanted to.

    Here is something about this:

    http://www.lsconservative.com/?p=296

    “…S&P walked away from a quote this morning on the news that was attributed to “… an influential investor met with S&P and was told that if the Boehner plan passed it may still downgrade America’s Treasury Bonds (our debt)… but that if the Reid plan was passed that was less likely.”

    Reid’s plan extended the debt ceiling longer if am correct. It did cut the deficit more on paper but only because it counted the projected ending of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as deficit savings.

    Of course, anyway, Standard and Poor’s did the downgrade not because it makes any sense, or because anybody is listening, but in order to be able to pretend to be building up its credibility.
    (because this kind of thing shouldn’t really build up it’s credibility. It is so obviously overcorrecting for previous mistakes.)

    Sammy Finkelman (d3de3a)

  126. Not as many times as it’s been declared constitutional bfc.

    Comment by tifosa

    You guys are big on the “one drop” rule–So, if any ruling goes your way–you run with it.

    And, the affirmative rulings basically said that Congress could write any law they please–Regardless of the defined and limited powers of the Federal Government–I assume this will hit the US Supreme Court–And I am sure you will support whatever the final ruling is /snarc…

    When (or if) the “TEAPARTY” wins over the next couple election cycles–I hope you remember this when they outlaw, jail, tax everything you like, protest, and continue to write/prosecute “thought crimes” (Hate Crimes). “elections have consequences” and “I won.” TM -Pres. Obama

    BfC (2ebea6)

  127. No one will be allowed to criticize Dem God-Kings, like Obambi, and the Dems will be assigning jobs, just like their forebearers did in the American south, back in the Dems’ heyday.

    If wrongs against individuals cannot be corrected in the Jury Box;
    and unjust laws cannot be changed via the Ballot Box;
    then the people are left with only one other weapon to fight tyranny and to restore Liberty & Freedom:
    The Bullet Box

    …If Frederick Douglas didn’t say that specifically, he meant to.

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  128. I guess S&P is not allowed to have an opinion which others pay for in a free market.

    Heaven forbid.

    The Totalitarian Left is enraged — S&P did not ask for permission.

    But really, if this was Bush — I think the reaction would be much different.

    S. Carter aka J-Z (786e37)

  129. “(Reminder that Boehner walked out of President Obama’s $4.7T plan.)”

    tifosa – Reminder, Boehner said working with White House was like working with jello. Obama never had a plan. If you’ve seen it, please provide links.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  130. FYI, this is a nothing moment if you ask me. By next Friday, no one is going to care.

    Plus, in the long run, I think it best SAVERS start getting compensated for “over producing” and BORROWERS starting paying for “over consuming.”

    Kind of how we got in this mess don’t ya think? Years of cheap money …. anyway.

    S. Carter aka J-Z (786e37)

  131. If a downgrade had occured under Bush – particularly in the period ’07-’09 – Nancy would have instituted impeachment proceedings;
    and Harry would make sure a conviction resulted.
    But, only after they got Ronny Earle to indict, and convict, Dick Cheney of Attempted Manslaughter (see: Nixon/Agnew).

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  132. … which is why Politicians talking about the US Consumer “consuming again” is a red herring argument to anyone with two brain cells.

    The central issue for the US is not consumption but more production and by producing more stuff to displace consumption of foreign goods like Oil, Clothes, Cars etc.

    … but anyway, the economic illiterates (including Nobel Prize Winners) will not miss the opportunity to miss an opportunity.

    S. Carter aka J-Z (786e37)

  133. “Not as many times as it’s been declared constitutional…”

    You can tell a lie over and over again…and, it’s still going to be a lie.

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  134. Good post and congratulations on the well-deserved Instapundit link.

    I agree “the S&P downgrade marks a post on the road where progressive demagogy loses its power.” That’s important because emotion, passion and prejudice is all they have to motivate voters.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  135. Here’s a question: Since S&P is a Wall Street fat cat, why do the libs care so much about what they think? Is it not what foreign nations think about us that determines their sense of self-worth?

    Icy Texan (08b9d8)

  136. tifosa and Spvrty – For you to be able to claim the downgrade is the fault of Republicans, surely you must be able to point to some plan of the Democrat leadership, Obama, Pelosi or Reid, which was derailed by Republicans “taking the country hostage”.

    Can you point to that plan? Obama’s original fiscal 2012 budget was voted down 97-0 by the Senate and he never produced a new one. Democrats in the Senate have not produced a budget in more than two years.

    What exactly did the Republicans derail, unrestrained spending? Please provide links.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  137. “That’s important because emotion, passion and prejudice is all they have to motivate voters.”

    DRJ – You forgot bribery.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  138. dave: 3 constitutional, 2 unconstitutional, 6 dismissed

    tifosa (176568)

  139. tifosa – Bring a better game next time. You’ve got nothing.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  140. Peter Oborn, writing in the Daily Telegraph, ends today’s column thusly…

    “…An economic firestorm is heading our way, and Britain will be doing very well just to survive.

    Words that many in DC would do well to note, for if the EU collapses, it will take more than a few U.S. banking institutions with it.

    H/T – HotAir

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  141. Separate the debt ceiling from the rigidly ideological Norquistists. Anybody who signed a pledge to vote a certain way before they even take office takes the word “public” out of Republican.

    tifosa (176568)

  142. And separate entitlement reform from the ideologues on the Left.
    Goose/Gander!

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  143. don’t believe me, believe the majority of voters who say http://www.politicususa.com/en/polls-taxes-deficit

    tifosa (176568)

  144. Oh, BTW, that should be “Norquista’s”.

    Maroon!

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  145. Project much tifosa?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  146. I believe the majority of voters who were polled on 2 Nov 2010 – for those are the only polls that count!

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  147. See, Karl? This is why you should post here instead of that ridiculous Hot Air site. Even after Hot Air got a headstart and promoted your post yesterday, they have 61 comments to your 153.

    I’m joking, of course. It’s great that you are getting your stuff in front of all those eyeballs over there. Congratulations.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  148. hahahahahaha “Norquistas” hahahahahaha. You argue about the word, not the concept? hahahaha

    tifosa (176568)

  149. Controversy keeps it going Patterico. :^) you’re welcome

    tifosa (176568)

  150. “In short, S&P is just making stuff up”–aul Krugman

    And, irony-o-meters all over America suddenly explode.

    “The Conscience of a Liberal”

    If that was a book, it would be a book with 200 blank pages.

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  151. We stayed home in 2010, AD. We won’t make that mistake again.

    tifosa (176568)

  152. It just demonstrates your complete lack of seriousness.
    Your argument completes the demonstration.

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  153. Stayed home?
    Why, did they institute Voter ID?

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  154. “dave: 3 constitutional, 2 unconstitutional, 6 dismissed”

    That’s three lies, two truths, and six judges who don’t have a clue.

    And, that pretty well sums up America’s judiciary since its inception.

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  155. “Stayed home? Why, did they institute Voter ID?”

    Nah, somebody locked the doors to their Section 8 housing…from the outside.

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  156. New Low: 17% Say U.S. Government Has Consent of the Governed – Rasmussen
    H/T – HotAir

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  157. “They” referring to the voter disenfranchisement measures by the Teapublicon Govs?

    tifosa (176568)

  158. Pat,

    I woulda cross-posted yesterday, but you had fresh content. 😉

    Karl (37b303)

  159. Nah, somebody locked the doors to their Section 8 housing…from the outside.

    Now, if they’ll only pull his internet plug.

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  160. Spartacus tells us reality favors the Left … and proves it by making up stuff.

    SPQR (fe1aad)

  161. “don’t believe me…”–tifosa

    As much as I believe any lefty pathological liar.

    I know, I know…I’m being redundant when I use the terms “lefty” and “pathological liar” in the same sentence.

    I just do that for dramatic effect.

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  162. tifosa had one
    too many mimosa and
    m00nbat crash and burn

    ColonelHaiku (d1f5ff)

  163. DRJ,

    Thanks for the heads-up on the Instalanche. Glad it came here!

    Karl (37b303)

  164. Love that Colonel!! Copied it to my user id :^)

    tifosa (176568)

  165. “We stayed home in 2010, AD. We won’t make that mistake again.”

    tifosa – Ha! The way you guys are having to spin, 2012 should make 2010 look like a great year for Democrats.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  166. “Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner has told President Obama he plans to remain in his job through the fall of 2012, keeping in place Obama’s longest-serving economic adviser after the first-ever U.S. credit downgrade and renewed fears of a second recession…”

    Well, I, for one, feel better already.
    Whew, that’s a big load(sic) lifted off of my shoulders knowing that the architect of our financial disaster will be around to “smooth” the waters until the next election.
    We can all look forward to better things…
    A+ is better than AA+, right?
    …grading is soooo hard…

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  167. Daley, better start the PerryPrayers…….NOW

    tifosa (176568)

  168. tifosa:

    I know you guys are just supposed to parrot what your leaders tell you, but do you really believe the nonsense you emit?

    Ag80 (9a213d)

  169. #14 timb
    you conservatives threatened to NOT pay our liberals bills. As Felix Salmon noted, sovereign debt ratings are measurements of political abilities to manage crises. You people Contributing members of society have proved you are unwilling to pay the taxes necessary to pull us freeloaders out of debt”

    FIFY

    felipe (2ec14c)

  170. Cute (scary) PowerLine Youtube video entry.

    Door Bell

    Federal Government, enslaving our children, millions at a time.

    It will be really fun to see all of those Liberal Art/Law Degrees end up in debtor’s prison since their government backed student loans can never be discharged (and the students were probably lied to by their schools about their chances of getting jobs where they could ever pay off those $150,000 loans.

    BfC (2ebea6)

  171. …and the Hits just keep coming:

    The credit rating agency’s managing director, John Chambers, tells ABC’s “This Week” that if the fiscal position of the U.S. deteriorates further, or if political gridlock tightens even more, a further downgrade is possible.

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  172. 2/3 of the debt has Republican fingerprints.

    tifosa (176568)

  173. Tifosa likes to lie, in service of Teh Narrative.

    JD (318f81)

  174. tifosa, like all Democrat rhetoric these days, that’s a brazen lie. The Democrats have nothing to offer but petty little namecalling. The economic nostrums have given us record unemployment, flat GDP and bankrupt Fed budgets as far as the eye can see.

    SPQR (fd75f0)

  175. ‘For Whom the Downgrade Tolls– It Tolls For Tea.’

    There. Fixed that for ‘ya.

    “Be sincere, be brief, be seated.” – FDR

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  176. A Moronic Convergence, defined.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  177. name-calling? oh you mean JD, that’s ok, I can take it :^)

    tifosa (176568)

  178. Democrats hate the TEA party because it represents the working middle class, those the Democrats policies harm the most.

    SPQR (fd75f0)

  179. Aggressively dishonest, SPQR. Especially using Stockman and DeZlong as their “experts”.

    JD (318f81)

  180. The TEA party has been co-opted by the corporatocracy. However, what you’ll soon wake up to is that when they don’t need you, they push you aside. (See Chamber of Commerce/Debt Ceiling.) Don’t worry though, they’ll need your votes~ for now.

    tifosa (176568)

  181. The middle has well caught on that the TEAs are not representing their interests (Ryan Plan)

    tifosa (176568)

  182. Democrats hate the TEA party because it represents the working middle class, those the Democrats policies harm the most.

    Yes, from a Party that advocated for the Working Class, they’ve become a Party of the Intelligentsia and the Tax-Takers – Poverty-Pimps and their Whores!

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  183. Now tifosa is just making stuff up again. SHOCKA

    JD (318f81)

  184. tifosa – Where is Obama’s plan?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  185. If sparty and tifosa and the stalkerish ones were confident in their positions, they would not have to lie about others. This is a sign of desperation on their behalf, and their recent frenzy just reinforces that.

    JD (318f81)

  186. I’m beginning to think that you might have a bad habit JD (9th Commandment dude) ;^)

    tifosa (176568)

  187. Interesting that they make the claim that the TEA Party is in league with the Corporatists (the Chamber of Commerce types, I assume), when the TEA Party is at loggerheads with the Go-Along/Get-Along philosophy exemplified by the so-called GOP Establishment typified by the CofC.

    No, the TEA Party is the Party of Main Street and The Country Class, where the Corporatists (CofC) are just another cell of The Ruling Class that infects DC, and most Blue-State capitols.

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  188. Anybody who signed a pledge to vote a certain way before they even take office takes the word “public” out of Republican.
    Comment by tifosa — 8/7/2011 @ 12:23 pm

    — Sure. It’s much better to practice moral relativism than it is to stand by a solid principle. This way, whatever stupid idea Mr. Hopey Changey comes up with next can be fully embraced by teh sheeple.

    Icy Texan (08b9d8)

  189. _______________________________________________

    2/3 of the debt has Republican fingerprints.

    Oh, really? If so, I guess we can instead go the limousine-liberal route — and one does not have to be wealthy to be guilty of that two-faced, phony-ass form of liberalism — which would involve a situation not too different from what’s described herein:

    cato-at-liberty.org, Daniel J. Mitchell

    The New York Times has an article describing widespread tax evasion in Greece, along with an implication that the country’s fiscal crisis is largely the result of unpaid taxes and could be mostly solved if taxpayers were more obedient to the state. This is grossly inaccurate. A quick look at the budget numbers reveals that tax revenues have remained relatively constant in recent years, consuming nearly 40 percent of GDP. The burden of government spending, by contrast, has jumped significantly and now exceeds 50 percent of Greek economic output.

    The article also is flawed in assuming that harsher enforcement is the key to compliance. [E]ven the economists at the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development admit that tax evasion is driven by high tax rates (which is remarkable since the OECD is the international bureaucracy pushing for global tax rules to undermine tax competition and reduce fiscal sovereignty).

    Ironically, the New York Times article quotes Friedrich Schneider of Johannes Kepler University in Austria, but only to provide an estimate of Greece’s shadow economy. The reporter should have looked at an article that Schneider wrote for the International Monetary Fund, which found that:
    ______

    Macroeconomic and microeconomic modeling studies based on data for several countries suggest that the major driving forces behind the size and growth of the shadow economy are an increasing burden of tax and social security payments… The bigger the difference between the total cost of labor in the official economy and the after-tax earnings from work, the greater the incentive for employers and employees to avoid this difference and participate in the shadow economy.

    … Several studies have found strong evidence that the tax regime influences the shadow economy…. In Austria, the burden of direct taxes (including social security payments) has been the biggest influence on the growth of the shadow economy… Other studies show similar results for the Scandinavian countries, Germany, and the United States. In the United States, analysis shows that as the marginal federal personal income tax rate increases by one percentage point, other things being equal, the shadow economy grows by 1.4 percentage points.
    _____

    It is worth noting the Schneider’s research also shows why Obama’s tax policy is very misguided. The President wants to boost the top tax rate by nearly five percentage points, and that’s on top of the big increase in the tax rate on saving and investment included in Obamacare. Based on Schneider’s research, we can expect America’s underground economy to expand.

    Shifting back to Greece, Schneider does not claim that tax rates are the only factor determining compliance. But his research indicates that more onerous enforcement regimes are unlikely to put much of a dent in tax evasion unless accompanied by better tax policy (i.e., lower tax rates).

    Moreover, compliance also is undermined by the rampant corruption and incompetence of the Greek government…. So when I read some of the details in this excerpt from the New York Times, much of my sympathy is for taxpayers rather than the greedy politicians that turned Greece into a fiscal mess:
    _____

    To get more attentive care in the country’s national health system, Greeks routinely pay doctors cash on the side, a practice known as “fakelaki,” Greek for little envelope. And bribing government officials to grease the wheels of bureaucracy is so standard that people know the rates. They say, for instance, that 300 euros, about $400, will get you an emission inspection sticker.

    …Various studies have concluded that Greece’s shadow economy represented 20 to 30 percent of its gross domestic product. Friedrich Schneider, the chairman of the economics department at Johannes Kepler University of Linz, studies Europe’s shadow economies; he said that Greece’s was at 25 percent last year and estimated that it would rise to 25.2 percent in 2010.

    Mark (411533)

  190. I am pretty sure I neither covet your house, nor am bearing false witness, tifosa. Pointing out that you are telling lies, sad petty tired partisan lies, really is not at all difficult.

    JD (318f81)

  191. Mark, shorter version…
    The more that government interjects itself into the economy, the more of a Black Market is created.

    “We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us!”

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  192. We stayed home in 2010, AD. We won’t make that mistake again.
    Comment by tifosa — 8/7/2011 @ 12:33 pm

    — Wait a moment . . . YOU failed to vote in 2010, but now you wish to kvetch & moan about those that were elected due to your apathy?

    Congratulations. You are an armchair troll.

    Icy Texan (08b9d8)

  193. Hate to state the obvious, but maybe google can help: “United States is not Greece.” btw, 4 odf the remaining AAA’s have universal healthcare (read “socialized medicine”)

    tifosa (176568)

  194. Just read Steven Hayward’s “Chronicles of Ill-Liberalism” over at HotAir, and just have to direct this response to some who like to annoy here:

    Scratch a Progressive, and a Fascist bleeds!

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  195. I voted but many of our side didn’t.

    tifosa (176568)

  196. “reality” was imdw… it’s gone now. Along with a new slew of puppets from him. Thanks imdw, every time you post it leads to more. Enjoy your weekend, I am.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  197. tut tut tut, name-calling is frowned upon in here :)

    tifosa (176568)

  198. No, tifosa, being a clumsy lying troll is frowned upon.

    JD (318f81)

  199. what was a lie?

    tifosa (176568)

  200. A true description is never “name calling”.

    I’ll stop telling the truth about you, when you stop making stuff up about me.

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  201. cue JD’s “everything~I’m out!” button

    tifosa (176568)

  202. tut tut tut, name-calling is frowned upon in here

    So come do something about it, coward.

    Darth Venomous (c8614a)

  203. laughable Darth. Maybe I should get a big tough nick like you have?

    tifosa (176568)

  204. _______________________________________________

    The more that government interjects itself into the economy, the more of a Black Market is created.

    And, btw, AD-RtR/OS, the observations of human nature I’m fully aware of and that I’m describing (or that are analyzed by people like the guy from Cato) are based on personal experience.

    I’ve mentioned in the past knowing a person who’s a dyed-in-the-wool liberal. He’s a big defender of Obama, a big suck-up to Democrats and liberal activists in general, and routinely scoffs at Republicans overall, the Tea Party in particular. He’s needled me regularly for my politics, which I take in stride.

    This person manages the books of a business and persuaded its owner to switch its workers from employees to independent contractors. That way the business doesn’t have to pay all the taxes and fees required of employers who have workers listed as “employees” instead of in the category of “independent contractors.”

    I read awhile back that a bastion of liberal people and liberalism, the Los Angeles Times, started doing that legal conversion of many of its workers (ie, formerly “employees”) too.

    Getting back to the limousine liberal I describe above, I’ve observed him frequently doing back flips and contortionist routines to avoid paying any form of taxes imaginable, whether at the local, state or federal levels. Several months ago, he told me about the lengths he’d go to buy a car outside of California in order to avoid paying the state’s higher sales tax.

    Limousine liberals and liberalism: Idiocy and phoniness — and cognitive dissonance — that a top-notch author or psychiatrist couldn’t make up even if he tried.

    Mark (411533)

  205. I voted but many of our side didn’t.

    mimosa’s MO here seems to be athritically – damaged posts stating alleged “facts,” but w/o tangible evidence to back it up. You can tell when the far Lefties know that their Savior and related handmaidens are going down to defeat, they turn all shrieky and spleen – venting.

    Dmac (8bfb47)

  206. cue JD’s “everything~I’m out!” button

    It’s called having an actual life, sweetcheeks. Now be a good boy and go clean the litter box downstairs, or else no Happy Meal for dinner.

    Dmac (8bfb47)

  207. “Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner has…”

    …filed a correct tax return for the first time in his life?

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  208. Do you know how to troll?

    Simon Jester (9e206a)

  209. “…or else no Happy Meal for dinner.”

    You can buy Happy Meals with food stamps now???

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  210. tifosa:

    Regurgitating thinkprogress, MMfA, KOS, DNC, whitehouse.gov, OfA and moveon talking points doesn’t add much to your credibility. And that google-riffic link of yours is actually a joke on you.

    Ag80 (9a213d)

  211. Honestly, Ag80, they have to circle the wagons. They got played in 2008, and that’s got to hurt. Hope and Change? More like Chicago politics. So of course it cannot be that they were played; those wascally Wepublicans are wesponsible.

    Simon Jester (9e206a)

  212. tifosa wrote:

    I voted but many of our side didn’t.

    Well, as far as I am concerned, that at least gives you the right to combitch about the way things turned out for your side. As for your friends, as far as I am concerned, their opinions are worth exactly what their votes are worth, and if they voted 0 times, that’s what their opinions are worth.

    Howsomever, if many of the people on your “side” didn’t vote, maybe you ought to be asking why they didn’t vote. Could it be because they knew an utter failure as a President when they saw one?

    The Dana who did vote, and votes every election (f68855)

  213. President Obama has caved to the R’s, continued too many of the Bush policies. That’s why we laugh when the vociferous right scream “socialism”

    tifosa (176568)

  214. tifosa wrote:

    tut tut tut, name-calling is frowned upon in here

    Please, just fill out this form, and everything will be taken care of.

    The Drill Sergeant Dana (f68855)

  215. ‘President Obama has caved to the R’s, continued too many of the Bush policies.’

    That’s the only thing President O’Idiot has done that’s right.

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  216. Comment by Dave Surls — 8/7/2011 @ 2:20 pm

    Don’t know about Micky-D’s, Dave, but in L.A.Co. you can use them at most Subway’s, and La Pizza Loca’s.

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  217. tifosa wrote:

    President Obama has caved to the R’s, continued too many of the Bush policies. That’s why we laugh when the vociferous right scream “socialism”

    So, by your standards, he has been a failure, and by our standards he has been a failure. Congratulations, we have found common ground here!

    The Dana who has found common ground with our friends on the left (f68855)

  218. Just curious, what has he done that you consider “socialist?”

    tifosa (176568)

  219. Do you people know how to google?

    Comment by tifosa — 8/7/2011 @ 2:16 pm

    Do you know how to do basic math?

    http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=190082

    Another Chris (c983db)

  220. Comment by The Drill Sergeant Dana — 8/7/2011 @ 2:39 pm

    Does that come with a pre-punched card from the Chaplin?

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  221. “tut tut tut, name-calling is frowned upon in here:”

    So, go ahead and frown.

    Dolt.

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  222. ‘President Obama has caved to the R’s, continued too many of the Bush policies.’

    LOL at this goonfiction–he caved to the Rs when he had a supermajority in the House and a near-one in the Senate? What are you doing supporting a guy who can’t even make the most of a rare window when pushing through just about anything you want is possible? Hell, Reagan, Clinton, and both Bushes managed to do it with smaller majorities and even oppositional Congressional makeups.

    Perhaps Obama’s not quite as competent as you and your fellow coffeehouse revolutionaries thought he was.

    Another Chris (c983db)

  223. “Don’t know about Micky-D’s, Dave, but in L.A.Co. you can use them at most Subway’s, and La Pizza Loca’s.”

    You gotta be kidding poor ol’ Uncle Dave.

    This news makes Uncle Dave very sad.

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  224. I can’t believe that dumb-ass jacked up our credit rating is he pleased with himself? Are you proud of him, M’chelle? Can you possibly be that pig ignorant?

    Dude doesn’t have the sense god gave a grapenut and he’s doing lots of damage and he needs to knock it off right now, stop being an asshole, and recant all the socialist unamerican nonsense what’s spilled out of his cowardly whore mouf.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  225. The bluedog dems blocked single payer hc. If Huntsman is the Repub candidate, he’d have chance I’d bet.

    tifosa (176568)

  226. Boehner “we got 98% of what we want.” PaulRyan today saying that the deal was “validating.” It isn’t Obama who’s celebrating, it’s the R’s.

    tifosa (176568)

  227. Hate to leave this happy crew, back to your stroke-fest :)

    tifosa (176568)

  228. laughable Darth. Maybe I should get a big tough nick like you have?

    Nah, yours suits you just fine, Tiffany.

    Besides, you’ve already proven you don’t have the stones for it.

    Darth Venomous (c8614a)

  229. I can’t believe that dumb-ass jacked up our credit rating.

    stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  230. Shorter tifosa: “OBAMA CAN’T BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING THAT GOES WRONG WHILE PRESIDENT, IT’S ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSE’S FAULT A BLOO BLOO BLOO!”

    It must be extraordinarily baffling to have to keep backing someone who clearly is running Dubya’s third term, and exacerbated the same policies no less.

    You’ll still line up and pull the lever for him in 2012, though. It’s not that he means to beat you, but you make him so mad sometimes and you just need to do things that don’t set him off. Then things will get better.

    Another Chris (c983db)

  231. Oops, took a nap. Competed in a triathlon this morning and I am a bit tired. I see tifosa is still up to its nonsense. BunNIES!!!!

    JD (d48c3b)

  232. Uncle Dave is looking at his huge collection of automatic weapons, rocket launchers, main battle tanks, and tactical nuclear weapons, and wondering why he allows the government to steal poor Old Uncle Dave’s money so degenerate lefies can buy pizza slices.

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  233. congratulations on your achievement Mr. JD you are as indomitable as you are insouciant is what I suspect

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  234. Karl @120

    taking steps toward fiscal responsibility.

    Depends how you define “taking steps” and responsibility.

    Most sane people – and there is clear polling evidence on this – would exclude actually holding the whole economy and the full faith and credit of the US govt. hostage to the unreasonable demands of a partisan minority in the House, from any definition of responsible.

    On media bias, I make that 2ce as many people who recognize the media is biased toward reality, rather the made up variety peddled by Fox.

    Your welcome

    Spartacvs (09d234)

  235. “… If Huntsman is the Repub candidate, he’d have chance I’d bet.”

    Andrew Ferguson, the WeeklyStandard.com, July 18, 2011:

    “Covering political campaigns can be a dull, remorseless duty, but at least the reporters who gathered in Liberty State Park,
    New Jersey, on June 21 to see Jon Huntsman announce his presidential candidacy have this compensation:
    Someday they’ll be able to chuck their grandchildren under the Chin and tell them,
    ‘Yes, kids, I was there when the Huntsman campaign peaked’…”

    Ouch, that’s got to leave a mark!

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  236. Most sane people – and there is clear polling evidence on this – would exclude actually holding the whole economy and the full faith and credit of the US govt. hostage to the unreasonable demands of a partisan minority in the House, from any definition of responsible.

    That “full faith and credit” is an illusion built on castles of air, and only lasts until the math takes over and renders it meaningless.

    http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=190082

    Another Chris (c983db)

  237. “Most sane people – and there is clear polling evidence on this…”

    They took a poll that liberals weren’t allowed to be part of???

    Good idea.

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  238. Soartac accusing fox of peddling made-up shat?

    That is irony you know.

    Btw Tifosa can your lips go any further into Obama’s bunghole?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  239. Notice how they ignore the polling on CC&B? 60+% and a majority of even Dems approved.

    Thanks, happyfeet.

    JD (306f5d)

  240. Just curious, what has he done that you consider “socialist?”
    Comment by tifosa — 8/7/2011 @ 2:48 pm

    — Mandatory health insurance; extending unemployment to 99 weeks; taking control of GM; seeking to increase taxes …

    Icy Texan (08b9d8)

  241. “That’s why we laugh”

    Colonel was thinking it was because you’re all constantly blowing smoke up each others skirts…

    ColonelHaiku (d1f5ff)

  242. don’t go away mad
    tiffanyosa go ‘way
    feeling schooled, princess

    ColonelHaiku (d1f5ff)

  243. “– Mandatory health insurance; extending unemployment to 99 weeks; taking control of GM; seeking to increase taxes …”

    Crikey, the libtards are even trying to tell me what kinda light bulbs I oughta be buying.

    If this ain’t socialism, it’ll do ’til the real thing comes crawling out from under a rock.

    Dave Surls (38e418)

  244. AD asked:

    Does that come with a pre-punched card from the Chaplin?

    Charlie Chaplin, yes! :)

    The Army daddy Dana (f68855)

  245. The right know Obama has failed;
    The left know his ship has sailed
    Why can we not
    Get rid of his rot,
    His hide to the wall should be nailed!

    The Limerick Avenger (f68855)

  246. tifosa left without revealing Obama’s plan!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  247. Spvrty – Harry Reid and Barack Obama holding the country hostage by refusing to act on Republican passed bills which addressed fiscal concerns raised by S&P led to the downgrade. The only people to advance actual plans in this sage were the Republicans. The Democrats acted like petulant children.

    Google it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  248. Most sane people–and responsible executives–would see a problem–the debt ceiing–coming back in the spring of 2010. Most responsible executives would have done something about it then–having majorities in both Houses of Congress and all that.

    But if you’re a pussilanimous piece of bull dust that’s more worried about getting re-elected in 2012, you won’t do anything about it then. No sirree. You’ll wait until you’ve lost one House–and then start figuring out how you’re going to hang your bleeping failure to lead–on the opposing party.

    Then to spice things up, you’ll run around like Chicken Little with your head cut off screaming “the sky is falling” and “we’re going to default”. If you want to talk about who stirred up all this panic about a possible default. you’re going to have to lay it at the Bamster’s feet.

    If Barack Obama had somehow by some hook or crook wound up as CEO of a Fortune 500 Company, the Board would have booted his ass from Pasadena to Poughkeepsie the first time he pulled a stunt like that. He wouldn’t have even bounced along the way.

    Just sayin’.

    Comanche Voter (0e06a9)

  249. The country is borrowing 40 cents of every dollar it spends and Democratic shills claim that the trivial spending cuts urged by the GOP are unreasonable demands. What a joke.

    SPQR (fd75f0)

  250. Obama bemoans S&P,
    “How could they do this to me?”
    But you can bet
    I’ll get them yet
    It’s coming, just you wait and see!

    The Limerick Avenger (f68855)

  251. Spartacvs, he gets around
    Bravely defending that clown
    But he should know
    Obama’s no go
    Twenty-twelve he will go down!

    The Limerick Avenger (f68855)

  252. This blather you call “pontificatin'”
    Is nothing but a room full of hatin’
    Years of having no voice
    Leaves you no other choice
    But in the end again you’ll be waitin.’

    tifosa (176568)

  253. I call it “RINO in 2012″

    tifosa (176568)

  254. News from ASia:

    Gold at $1691!!!
    Tomorrow in NYC should be very “interesting”.

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  255. The government mandates aren’t socialism. And the GM bailout isn’t socialism. Is the draft socialism? Is jury duty socialism? The military is socialized. You best look the word up. Interesting return time JD. And I’m the liar>? 😉 out kids, don’t run with scissors.

    tifosa (176568)

  256. Government takeover is socialism chump.

    Btw I hope you run with scissors 😀

    DohBiden (d54602)

  257. Tifosa he like
    government make decisions
    for him. me? uh unh.

    elissa (d98c29)

  258. Why you want to make decisions for yourself hater.

    /Tifosa

    DohBiden (d54602)

  259. I found the perfect song for tifosa: Stuck in the middle with O!

    Well I don’t know why I came here tonight,
    I got the feeling that something ain’t right,
    I’m so scared in case I fall off my chair,
    And I’m wondering how I’ll get down the stairs,
    Clowns to the left of me,
    Jokers to the right, here I am,
    Stuck in the middle with you.

    Yes I’m stuck in the middle with you,
    And I’m wondering what it is I should do,
    It’s so hard to keep this smile from my face,
    Losing control, yeah, I’m all over the place,
    Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right,
    Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.

    Well you started out with nothing,
    And you’re proud that you’re a self made man,
    And your friends, they all come crawlin,
    Slap you on the back and say,
    Please…. Please…..

    Trying to make some sense of it all,
    But I can see that it makes no sense at all,
    Is it cool to go to sleep on the floor,
    ‘Cause I don’t think that I can take anymore
    Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right,
    Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.

    Well you started out with nothing,
    And you’re proud that you’re a self made man,
    And your friends, they all come crawlin,
    Slap you on the back and say,
    Please…. Please…..

    Well I don’t know why I came here tonight,
    I got the feeling that something ain’t right,
    I’m so scared in case I fall off my chair,
    And I’m wondering how I’ll get down the stairs,
    Clowns to the left of me,
    Jokers to the right, here I am,
    Stuck in the middle with you,
    Yes I’m stuck in the middle with you,
    Stuck in the middle with you.

    The tone-deaf Dana (f68855)

  260. If obama took a flying leap off of the Grand Canyon will you miss him?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  261. They elected a goof named Obama
    who Kennedy mistook for Osama
    now Kennedy’s gone
    naps under some lawn
    bin Laden he sleeps with the fauna

    ColonelHaiku (d1f5ff)

  262. Not with all the comic opportunities that would be presented by our new President.

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  263. Or, perhaps President Obama’s problem is better described by this song.

    Can’t you feel ’em circlin’ honey?
    Can’t you feel ’em swimmin’ around?
    You got fins to the left, fins to the right,
    and you’re the only bait in town.
    You got fins to the left, fins to the right,
    and you’re the only girl in town.

    Jimmy Buffett (f68855)

  264. But, not to worry, Come Monday, the New York Stock Exchange will open.

    Jimmy Buffett (f68855)

  265. I call it Tifosa brain dead any year.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  266. tifosa, you came mincing one Sunday
    Dem talking points all that you could say
    with facts you played loose
    well cooked was your goose
    you suck, now bow to your sensei

    ColonelHaiku (d1f5ff)

  267. Of course, I really had Barack Obama in mind when I wrote this song!

    Jimmy Buffett (f68855)

  268. _______________________________________________

    – Mandatory health insurance; extending unemployment to 99 weeks; taking control of GM; seeking to increase taxes Comment by Icy Texan —

    I don’t use “socialism” to describe the idiocy behind what you list or what’s described below. I instead use “ultra-liberalism.” Or even “ultra-ultra-liberalism.” Or that which is perfectly symbolized by the sentiments behind the famous words of Obama’s former close adviser and pastor: “Goddamn America!”

    Investors.com, July 2011

    In what could be a repeat of the easy-lending cycle that led to the housing crisis, the Justice Department has asked several banks to relax their mortgage underwriting standards and approve loans for minorities with poor credit as part of a new crackdown on alleged discrimination, according to court documents reviewed by IBD.

    Prosecutions have already generated more than $20 million in loan set-asides and other subsidies from banks that have settled out of court rather than battle the federal government and risk being branded racist. An additional 60 banks are under investigation, a DOJ spokeswoman says.

    Settlements include setting aside prime-rate mortgages for low-income blacks and Hispanics with blemished credit and even counting “public assistance” as valid income in mortgage applications. In several cases, the government has ordered bank defendants to post in all their branches and marketing materials a notice informing minority customers that they cannot be turned down for credit because they receive public aid, such as unemployment benefits, welfare payments or food stamps.

    Among other remedies: favorable interest rates and down-payment assistance for minority borrowers with weak credit.

    For example, the government has ordered Midwest BankCentre to set aside almost $1 million in “special financing” for residents living in predominantly black areas of St. Louis. The program includes originating conventional home loans at fixed prime rates for African-American borrowers “who would ordinarily not qualify for such rates for reasons including the lack of required credit quality, income or down payment.”

    “It’s absolutely outrageous after what we’ve just gone through,” said former Rep. Ernest Istook, a Heritage Foundation fellow. “How can someone both be financially stable enough to merit a mortgage at the same time they’re on public assistance? By definition, you don’t have the kind of employment that can support such a loan.”

    But industry analysts fear Attorney General Eric Holder is rekindling an anti-bank witch hunt launched by Attorney General Janet Reno in the 1990s, when Holder served as her deputy. Some blame that in part for the subprime boom, because banks were ordered to throw open their lending windows to credit-poor minorities. Thhat crackdown spurred the American Bankers Association to distribute to its thousands of members “fair-lending tool kits” advising the adoption of more permissive underwriting criteria to help inoculate them from prosecution.

    In the new prosecutions, Justice acknowledges in every case it did not prove charges of intentional discrimination, while banks have denied any wrongdoing. Many, in fact, earned outstanding ratings from anti-redlining regulators enforcing the Community Reinvestment Act.

    Istook calls Holder’s crusade an “egregious overreach by the government.” He says many of the targets are smaller banks without the resources to fight a protracted legal battle.

    “This is an expansion of the law,” said a congressional investigator. “They’re pushing the envelope as far as they can go in the enforcement of civil rights.”

    As part of settlement deals, prosecutors have required banks to sign “nondisclosure agreements” barring them from talking about the methods used to allege discrimination. Bank lawyers contend the prosecutors are trying to hide the shaky legal grounds on which the cases are built.

    [B]anks have been accused of racism simply for failing to open branches or aggressively market mortgages in black neighborhoods — regardless of the demand for, or viability of, such loans in those areas. Following this theory, the government has ordered several banks to advertise in black media and open branches in black neighborhoods, despite the weak economy.

    In announcing a recent $2 million settlement with Dallas-based PrimeLending, Civil Rights Division chief Tom Perez said, “We will require lenders to invest in the community that they’ve harmed.”

    Perez has compared bankers to Klansmen. Only difference is, he said, bankers discriminate “with a smile” and “fine print.” He said this kind of racism, though more subtle, is “every bit as destructive as the cross burned in a neighborhood.”

    Perez has required bank defendants to earmark potentially millions in funding for inner-city community organizers — who must be approved by Justice. Critics say lenders are being forced to bankroll Acorn clones that often exist just to shake them down for risky loans.

    In effect, Justice is using private banks to carry out affirmative-action lending, Istook says, a campaign he describes as “legal plunder.”

    _______________________________________________

    Mark (411533)

  269. Hate to state the obvious, but maybe google can help: “United States is not Greece.” btw, 4 odf the remaining AAA’s have universal healthcare (read “socialized medicine”)

    Comment by tifosa — 8/7/2011 @ 1:48 pm

    Isn’t google a whore for Obama?

    AZ Bob (aa856e)

  270. tifosa, pretending that you own the only valid definition of the word “socialism” only shows you up for the partisan ideologue, not the political dictionary authority.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  271. Those evil “TEA party” extremist policies …

    … result in a debt upgrade for Canadian province Saskatchewan.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  272. google is a rabid obamawhore… worse than warren buffett even

    or almost as bad

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  273. Comment by happyfeet — 8/7/2011 @ 6:49 pm

    They just don’t have as much money, yet.

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  274. Tifosa is into obama porn.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  275. A A A uh oh
    Gone, out the door, flown away
    B’rack blew it, big time!

    The Haiku Avenger (f68855)

  276. A A plus, you say?
    That’s better than it should be;
    Time to party hard!

    The Haiku Avenger (f68855)

  277. Barry O really began to whine,
    “S&P is taking what’s mine!
    Tim, I’m feeling blue,
    Oh, what can we do?”
    Party like it’s 1999!

    The Limerick Avenger (f68855)

  278. “I don’t use “socialism” to describe the idiocy behind what you list or what’s described below.”

    I call what Mark descibes below “socialism”, on account of it pretty much is sociaism.

    You can call it anything you want, I reckon, but it’s still going to stink like…well, you know.

    Dave Surls (8877a7)

  279. it’s been in my head so here you go no it’s not the beegees one

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  280. I’m feeling something ain’t right with the congruent “downgrade isn’t justified because of the math error” and it’s “a tea party downgrade” memes being served up by the left. Since they are desperately trying to avoid any responsibility for the debt and deficits racked up over the past four years while paying no attention to fiscal responsibility, I suppose the intellectual consistency of the excuses should not matter that much. tifosa and Spvrty have certainly done a good job of demonstrating that here.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  281. tax the rich and make it rain brother Barack

    I gots my umbrella and when the sun shines we’ll shine together

    you and me Barack

    together

    as Americans

    and then maybe if one of us has a coupon we can split an in n out burger but no fries cause that would just piss Michelle off to no end wouldn’t it

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  282. Mr. Feets – Thanks for the non-Bee Gees song. I’m not big into the head banging stuff. I got one which is more suitable of a Tea Party message of hopiness that its not too fix this country before these dirty dirty greasy assed socialists turn it into a broke dick banana republic is what I think and we are staring at 4-8 years of Republic governance starting in 2013 which is giving the yurps out both end to the left, which is not a great feeling to have, not in the morning before you have had your tasty pancakes.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  283. I’m down wif the struggle bruthah Feets!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  284. daley @255

    Republican passed bills

    Priceless!

    Spartacvs (2d9449)

  285. I like that song it’s very America of a certain era I’m bookmarking that

    me I have no faith in Prognostication

    the quest stands upon the edge of a knife Mr. daley

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  286. Gateway Pundit says President Obama hasn’t released a statement yet about the Standard & Poor’s downgrade. Is that correct? At least as a Senator he managed to show up and vote Present.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  287. “Republican passed bills”

    Spvrty – Including CCB! What did Democraps do, give speeches?

    What is Obama’s plan Spvrty? Please provide links.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  288. DRJ – Obama did go golfing, though. WINNING!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  289. Timeline:

    1980: Ronald Reagan runs for president, promising a balanced budget

    1981 – 1989: With support from congressional Republicans, Reagan runs enormous deficits, adds $2 trillion to the debt.

    1993: Bill Clinton passes economic plan that lowers deficit, gets zero votes from congressional Republicans.

    1998: U.S. deficit disappears for the first time in three decades. Debt clock is unplugged.

    2000: George W. Bush runs for president, promising to maintain a balanced budget.

    2001: CBO shows the United States is on track to pay off the entirety of its national debt within a decade.

    2001 – 2009: With support from congressional Republicans, Bush runs enormous deficits, adds nearly $5 trillion to the debt.

    2002: Dick Cheney declares, “Deficits don’t matter.” Congressional Republicans agree, approving tax cuts, two wars, and Medicare expansion without even trying to pay for them.

    2009: Barack Obama inherits $1.3 trillion deficit from Bush; Republicans immediately condemn Obama’s fiscal irresponsibility.

    2009: Congressional Democrats unveil several domestic policy initiatives — including health care reform, cap and trade, DREAM Act — which would lower the deficit. GOP opposes all of them, while continuing to push for deficit reduction.

    September 2010: In Obama’s first fiscal year, the deficit shrinks by $122 billion. Republicans again condemn Obama’s fiscal irresponsibility.

    October 2010: S&P endorses the nation’s AAA rating with a stable outlook, saying the United States looks to be in solid fiscal shape for the foreseeable future.

    November 2010: Republicans win a U.S. House majority, citing the need for fiscal responsibility.

    December 2010: Congressional Republicans demand extension of Bush tax cuts, relying entirely on deficit financing. GOP continues to accuse Obama of fiscal irresponsibility.

    March 2011: Congressional Republicans declare intention to hold full faith and credit of the United States hostage — a move without precedent in American history — until massive debt-reduction plan is approved.

    July 2011: Obama offers Republicans a $4 trillion debt-reduction deal. GOP refuses, pushes debt-ceiling standoff until the last possible day, rattling international markets.

    August 2011: S&P downgrades U.S. debt, citing GOP refusal to consider new revenues. Republicans rejoice and blame Obama for fiscal irresponsibility.

    Spartacvs (2d9449)

  290. That’s one kickin’ tune, pikachu, ‘ a modern day St. Crispin’s Day,seems too resigned,

    ian cormac (81c5c2)

  291. Spvrty – Timeline – 1/3 of current debt incurred since Democraps took over Congress in 2007.

    What have Democraps done to address issues of U.S. fiscal responsibility since 2007 – NOTHING

    CASE CLOSED

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  292. including health care reform, cap and trade, DREAM Act — which would lower the deficit.

    LOL

    What more is there to say to this guy. He’s really sincere about all this?

    Spartacus, Obama is responsible for the deficit from 2007 onward, since he voted on it. Remember? Bush was part of it to, but there’s a reason it went so much higher when the democrats took both houses of congress. They basically forced much of that on Bush.

    What a pathetic effort. No solutions are offered. Just blaming lies.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  293. ==2009: Congressional Democrats unveil several domestic policy initiatives — including health care reform, cap and trade, DREAM Act — which would lower the deficit. GOP opposes all of them, while continuing to push for deficit reduction==

    Oh spurty, you poor sick puppy.

    elissa (d98c29)

  294. That timeline was all sorts of dishonest. Where was that cribbed from?

    JD (318f81)

  295. Lol, is right,Dustin, Sporty, ‘has become tiresome,
    time to dance’

    ian cormac (81c5c2)

  296. Can somebody please tell Spvrty that Ronald Reagan, George Bush, Bill Clinton, and George Bush are no longer in office and that nobody gives a crap about his silly time lines going back 30 years. He’s welcome to live in the past if he wishes, but decisions are made based on current events.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  297. Timeline:

    1958-2011: Despite the country being controlled by two major parties in various configurations amongst the executive and legislative branches, not once is the national debt reduced.

    Another Chris (c983db)

  298. Spvrty – Where is Obama’s plan for fiscal responsibility. Where is his budget for fiscal 2012? Please provide links.

    How did he hit them this weekend?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  299. This is similar to the nonsense that tifosa was pushing earlier. It completely ignores control of Congress, and is aggressively and fundamentally dishonest. BarckyCare will reduce deficits? Balderdash.

    JD (318f81)

  300. time to dance

    I get the feeling Sparty is one to dance with the gal he brung no matter how damn ugly she is. He’s a real trooper, who will defend Obama on his deficit, even by claiming the things that hurt it the most actually made things a lot better.

    Obama promised more programs, more regulation, more entitlements. He’s given enormous sums through stimulus, TARP 2, and his Treasury has failed to produce a budget in YEARS.

    Meanwhile, he promised tax cuts and deficit reduction, and he was simply lying about that. Spending this much means taxes and/or deficits. Simple as that. Maybe the piper gets paid tomorrow, but he still gets paid.

    But Spartacus… wow. He’s quite committed to this. I don’t think we’ve ever had a troll quite this hardcore about it.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  301. Another Chris raises a good point.

    It would be stupid to claim the GOP has done no wrong here. They have also failed. Had the GOP managed balanced budgets, America would have a clearer choice. I think some in the party have thought long and hard about this and decided what the American people would choose if we had goodies and theft from kids, or limited government and honor.

    Anyway, I don’t mean to give the GOP a pass. The debt has skyrocketed in democrat hands, and their efforts to point the finger seem like a massive anti-democratic fraud. Give the people the truth about their vision for this country, so even the morons can vote on what’s really at stake.

    Spartacus, for example, is the opposite of democratic.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  302. Spurty made me remember that Gov. Quinn just signed an Illinois version of the Dream Act. I’ll keep y’all posted on how much it “lowers our deficit”.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-gov-quinn-signs-illinois-dream-act-20110801,0,770102.story

    elissa (d98c29)

  303. Sorry, ‘this conversation has just gotten too silly,’ indeed, beyond Python, approaching the event horizon of ‘Kids’s in the Hall’

    ian cormac (81c5c2)

  304. time to dance

    yes if you were wondering I am more 80s than you

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  305. If you are going to plagiarize Benen, you should credit him, sparty.

    JD (318f81)

  306. DRJ, it is my understanding that the subject was not even mentioned in the Weekly Radio Address on Saturday (mentioned on the ‘net – I don’t listen to serial prevaricators).

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  307. Actually I think it’s Puffington Host,

    ian cormac (81c5c2)

  308. That’s the first link that comes up, when you google.

    ian cormac (81c5c2)

  309. The last time the National Debt dropped at the end of a Fiscal Year was 1957, by $2B!
    http://130.94.230.21/debt_history.htm

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  310. According to Disco Stu, I think Nixon is responsible for the downgrade. He heard it from Gunga Dan.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  311. JD – Spvrty doesn’t like to provide citations because he like to make us think he dug up facts himself. He has no knowledge himself as you can tell from his one line responses.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  312. Spartacvs is a beeyotch!

    DohBiden (d54602)

  313. Breaking news story
    Spurty’s credibility
    has been downgraded

    elissa (d98c29)

  314. Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/7/2011 @ 9:01 pm

    That list is damn sickening (the Historical Debt Outstanding tables on the Treasury website have the same figures). Even the increased spending during the Depression was downright frugal by comparison. After absolutely skyrocketing during WW2, it then hardly comes down at all through the 1950s and then never again after 1957.

    We are addicted to debt, and it’s obvious that nothing is going to get fixed because of that–it’s going to take an absolute collapse to finally break the dependency cycle. And we’re all aware of the ramifications of making an addict go cold turkey.

    Another Chris (c983db)

  315. Amy Winehouse was an addict in a dependency cycle like the USA’s. Look what happened to her. Are we all gonna die, too, AC?

    elissa (d98c29)

  316. Sparty isn’t a Jethro Tull fan. Too bad:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eoy91sYdQPE

    Ag80 (9a213d)

  317. Yes, AC, the only frugality was in the immediate years after WW-2 where they paid down the debt from $269B in ’46, to $252B in ’49.
    At that point, with the economy exploding, they were content to just work on the “share of GDP” number, as the debt slowly increased, until Ike actually decreased the debt by a couple billions in two consecutive years (’56, ’57).
    Ever since, it’s been Katie Bar the Door.

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  318. elissa, contrary to what the Boomers believe, everyone dies.
    Bummer!

    AD-RtR/OS! (184e3b)

  319. Amy Winehouse was an addict in a dependency cycle like the USA’s. Look what happened to her. Are we all gonna die, too, AC?

    Comment by elissa — 8/7/2011 @ 9:19 pm

    Charles Hugh Smith points to several factors which indicate that while it’s possible, a slow de-scaling a la Rome is much more likely:

    http://www.oftwominds.com/blogjuly11/dependency-self-reliance6-11.html

    Pull quotes: “It seems clear to me that the U.S. is in the final stages of just such a dependency cycle that will end in the implosion of the Central Savior State as its obligations far exceed the economy’s ability to generate surpluses on that gigantic scale. Though the Central State can always print money, this artifice doesn’t “fool Mother Nature” for long; it doesn’t matter how many zeros are printed on the paper, the product will still cost the same in terms of energy consumed and hours of labor….

    “Rome offers us a plausible model for the devolution of the Savior State. While a sudden collapse similar to the Soviet Union is always possible, I suspect the U.S. Central State will devolve in parallel with the ancient Roman Empire: as the Empire’s costs exceeded the surplus generated by its remaining taxpayers, it issued flurries of edicts to the far-flung provinces, demanding more treasure and imposing ever more regulations.

    The edicts from Rome were simply ignored. In Yeats’ phrase, the falcon no longer heard the falconer. Enforcement is expensive, and if the gains reaped by costly enforcement are marginal or negative, then soon the issuers of the edicts ignore them, too.”

    Don’t expect Sparty or any of the other left-wing jokers who comment here to understand this. They still believe that the Status Quo can not only be preserved, it can be infinitely expanded and complexified. Furthermore, they believe it can do so without any pain to those reaping from the system, and that those providing the means to keep the system functioning will simply do so regardless of the edicts put in place.

    History’s proven such foolish thinking wrong over and over, and we’re likely to see it happen in real time. Back when the dotcom bubble popped, I figured we had another 30-50 years before things finally started breaking down; now, I’ll be surprised if the Status Quo lasts another ten.

    You’ve got 2/3 of the nation split into two groups that, quite frankly, have no interest in accomodating the other’s vision of how society should be structured and function, while the other 1/3 doesn’t care what is in place as long as it doesn’t inconvenience their life in any way whatsoever. That’s a recipe guaranteed to break any society apart eventually, especially one as over-scaled and fundamentally dysfunctional as ours is.

    Another Chris (c983db)

  320. #298

    Wow, that was an impressive series of bald-faced lies.

    This guy is one heavy hitting lefty. He might even be a bigger liar than Obambi…and, that’s saying something.

    Dave Surls (8877a7)

  321. This one explains it well, too:

    http://www.oftwominds.com/blogmay11/failure5-11.html

    Another Chris (c983db)

  322. Watching the liberal Dems try to hastily recast themselves as the party of fiscal responsibility is about as funny as it was watching them try to morph themselves into pacifists during the Vietnam War.

    Their hypocrisy simply defies imagination.

    Dave Surls (8877a7)

  323. The Amy Winehouse analogy is pretty appropriate, too:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LTPRJqt2z4&feature=grec_index

    Another Chris (c983db)

  324. “Who to blame” when you are lying in a ditch, bleeding, beside your wrecked car, is not the first thing you should attend to.

    Californio (987cd2)

  325. well yeah but it’s barack obama’s fault anyway

    duh

    that is one spendy spendy mofo

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  326. Some of you are acting like this was a downgrade of Obama.

    AZ Bob (aa856e)

  327. it certainly didn’t put a spit-shine on his nobel peace prize – it actually makes him look a wee but useless not unlike his momma felt when his drunk-ass daddy left her on some god-forsaken pacific island

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  328. ““Who to blame” when you are lying in a ditch, bleeding, beside your wrecked car, is not the first thing you should attend to.”

    Californio – What can you do, that’s how the Dems operate.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  329. AZ Bob – Michelle will be upset if Barack gets more gray hair over this, but he was already downgraded before the downgrade.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  330. “this was a downgrade of Obama”

    Oh, do expect one, tainted falafel, who knows, the Dimmis will do worse with the Jug-eared Fool atop the ballot than in 2010 and won’t take to sepuku quietly.

    Race riots are a worry, tho.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  331. m’chelle will also be upset if a random tenth grader in waxahatchee puts salt on his boiled spinach

    that’s just how she rolls

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  332. ‘“Who to blame” when you are lying in a ditch, bleeding, beside your wrecked car, is not the first thing you should attend to.’

    Like I said, it is if you’re trying to figure out who you want driving the car after November 2012.

    Dave Surls (8877a7)

  333. 1.) The resdistribution of wealth (and power0 continues unabated.

    2.) Employees of municipal, state and federal government agencies won’t be adversely affected by this development.

    3.) Labor unions and their members will benefit from this development.

    So why shouldn’t Democrats continue to defend Obama? They have nothing to lose and everything to gain. They’re saying, screw the rest of Americans.

    Summit, NJ (75c9eb)

  334. *(power) *

    Summit, NJ (75c9eb)

  335. If, as I suspect, Obama is just a lap dummy, who is his ventriloquist? George Soros? Somebody else?

    Summit, NJ (75c9eb)

  336. It would be stupid to claim the GOP has done no wrong here. They have also failed. Had the GOP managed balanced budgets, America would have a clearer choice. I think some in the party have thought long and hard about this and decided what the American people would choose if we had goodies and theft from kids, or limited government and honor.

    Comment by Dustin — 8/7/2011 @ 8:48 pm

    I am a pessimest, but I believe the problem is that the people will chose “goodies and theft from kids” over balanced budgets and paying down debt almost every time.

    that is why I think every democracy is destined to collapse at some point. I’m not saying there is a better system out there, but every democracy seems to go the route of entitlement spending into bankruptcy. This is b/c there is always a) a large – probably majority – of people who either don’t understand economics or don’t care and want their entitlemens (and GOPers are just as guilty of this) and b) a class of politicians who only care about staying in office and are thus willing to keep spending and borrowing.

    As long as there is a majority that isn’t smart enough to understand the problem adn/or care about the problem, we can never fix teh problem. We may have an election or 2 where conservatives win and we think we are going to fix the problem, but any attempt to actually cut spending will be met with outrage and the politicians will give it up pretty quick.

    Absent major technological breakthoughs in energy and health care – reducing the cost of both to de minimis levels – I simply don’t see the U.S., or Europe, surviving 50 more years.

    Even if the GOP wins the Senate and WH in 2012, I would be absolutely astonished if they enacted real cuts and/or reform of entitlements. I just don’t believe there are enough politicians with the political stones to do it over what will be the mass hysteria it will produce amongst the population.

    Monkeytoe (5234ab)

  337. there is always a) a large – probably majority – of people who either don’t understand economics or don’t care and want their entitlemens (and GOPers are just as guilty of this) and b) a class of politicians who only care about staying in office and are thus willing to keep spending and borrowing.

    Sad. It is hard to deny this. Especially when I’m in Baltimore or St Louis or Philadelphia.

    The only argument we’ve got for these folks is that they should be scared their precious goodies will go away, and their money won’t buy as much food and gasoline, if we continue down this path towards inflation and financial collapse.

    That’s true. I wish we could instead convince people to take care of themselves without believing they are entitled to steal from my kids. I say that Cenk Uygur explain on his show that ‘you’re entitled to this! that’s why it’s called and entitlement!’ with no explanation of who specifically they are entitled to bill their goodies to.

    But they know. They are taking it from the next generation of Americans.

    If America truly was still great, I don’t think there would be any chance of that idea holding ground. It’s the saddest thing. Used to be most Americans would risk their lives for freedom itself, and now they screw their kids for temporary improvements to an already great lifestyle.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  338. the more kids you have the more food stamps you get!

    that’s so cool

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  339. Happyfeet- 30,000 college kids kicked off food stamps in MI. Even after that, still one in 5 Michiganders on foodstamps.

    http://detnews.com/article/20110808/POLITICS02/108080356/30-000-college-students-kicked-out-of-food-aid-program-in-Michigan

    elissa (c7c7ff)

  340. oh my goodness elissa that is so wrong these people are American citizens they deserve food stamps for so they can make three bean salad and roast pork shoulder and tortellinis and pumpkin bread! Yum!

    Food stamps are same as money you know and in Obama’s America they’re actually a good investment cause of the multipliers! Multipliers means more gravy!

    So anyway in conclusion as you can see the logic is clear. These people need to get their food stamps back or otherwise they’re gonna end up having to pay for their own food, and that my friend is fundamentally unamerican.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  341. “the more kids you have the more food stamps you get!”

    Mr. Feets – With six you get egg rolls*.

    *for the old timers out there.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  342. We need to get back to a culture that is ashamed of taking charity.

    On food stamps? You should feel guilty about it. Seems a lot of folks know we’re pretty screwed and just want to grab their slice of the pie on the way down.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  343. I sort of knew that Michigan story concerning food would tug at your heartstrings, Mr. Feets. I do hope you will be able to get it together enough to make it through the rest of the day.

    elissa (c7c7ff)

  344. elissa I will have an extra tasty lunch today in honor of our oppressed michigan students

    they would want us to go on

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  345. “…every democracy is destined to collapse at some point…”

    Well then, let us return in some small way to our Republic(an) roots by returning the selection of Senators to the States, and re-inserting their interests back into the National Polity, by repealing Amendment XVII.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b759aa)

  346. Comment by Dustin — 8/8/2011 @ 8:12 am

    I would settle for “embarrassed”, as I am.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b759aa)

  347. AZ Bob wrote:

    Some of you are acting like this was a downgrade of Obama.

    When you are already at CC, the only possible downgrades are to C, or, following November 6, 2012, D.

    The realistic Dana (3e4784)

  348. The best downgrade for The Lightworker is:
    Unemployed!

    AD-RtR/OS! (b759aa)

  349. I would settle for “embarrassed”, as I am.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/8/2011 @ 8:54 am

    Do what you have to do to get by, and feel that pressure to get on your feet.

    I sound high and might about it, like I’m too good. That’s not true. If I had to go on the dole to feed my family, I would. Of course.

    But I’d feel awful about it. I wouldn’t feel entitled. I would resent the hell out of those who take the charity and don’t desperately want to get off it.

    This shame/embarrassment is simply one of those threads that makes the society function. As is generosity and charity from people.

    of course, long term, we’re being robbed of a prosperous society with jobs, too.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  350. Even if the GOP wins the Senate and WH in 2012, I would be absolutely astonished if they enacted real cuts and/or reform of entitlements. I just don’t believe there are enough politicians with the political stones to do it over what will be the mass hysteria it will produce amongst the population.

    So would I. GOP’ers are serious about the deficit – remember “Deficits don’t matter” ? They are only interested in 2 things. Destroying the social safety net established by the New Deal (SS & Medicare) and preserving tax cuts for the wealthy.

    spartacvs (2d9449)

  351. Spurty–

    You are aware that the “social safety net” has morphed quite a bit in both size and scope since the New Deal was “established?” Right?

    elissa (c7c7ff)

  352. spvrty is amazed that there is anything beyond the steps up to the kitchen.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b759aa)


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