Patterico's Pontifications

8/3/2011

Open Thread: #BeforeBlackPresidents

Filed under: General — Aaron Worthing @ 5:36 pm

[Guest post by Aaron Worthing; if you have tips, please send them here.  Or by Twitter @AaronWorthing.]

Still can’t come back full time, but here is a fun concept for an open thread.  Apparently on the twitter, there is a new hashtag for #BeforeBlackPresidents.  This is where supposedly we talk about all the horrible ways we are holding up Obama to a double standard.  Like did you know that we were okay with endlessly raising the debt limit until we had a black president?

So I have taken a few minutes here and there to spam it with my own snotty and sarcastic comments.  For instance:

#BeforeBlackPresidents the democrats couldn’t shove an unpopular health care reform bill down our throats.

#BeforeBlackPresidents you could depict the President as a chimp without being called a racist. [with a reference to this: http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/K/1/bush_chimps2.jpg]

#BeforeBlackPresidents before we had a black president, Barack Obama opposed raising the debt ceiling.

#BeforeBlackPresidents before we had a black president, Barack Obama didn’t want us to go to war without congressional approval.

#BeforeBlackPresidents am i the only person 2 notice that there haven’t been 2 black presidents yet? or are we counting Bill Clinton again?

#BeforeBlackPresidents before we had a black president, Barack Obama opposed signing statements.

#BeforeBlackPresidents black panthers could be convicted of voter intimidation

So if you are on twitter, join in.  Drive them nuts.  If you aren’t, well, leave your best comments here.  if you can keep it to 140 characters or less (including the hashtag) I might rip you off.

[Posted and authored by Aaron Worthing.]

324 Comments

  1. Before we had a black president, you could call the president a bushitler.

    …raising the debt ceiling was, as a black president said, “a failure of leadership.”

    …calling the opposition party “terrorists” was a big deal.

    …dissent was the highest form of patriotism.

    …a gigantic disparity in employment between blacks and whites was evidence of racism.

    …a First Lady who insisted we just say no to food or anything else was ridiculed.

    Comment by Cassandra (104e96) — 8/3/2011 @ 5:46 pm

  2. #BeforeBlackPresidents Rachel Maddow had never sucked a dick

    Comment by happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/3/2011 @ 5:47 pm

  3. before we had a black president, Barack Obama opposed signing statements

    Not entirely true. That’s a gross oversimplification. McCain was unambiguously opposed to signing statements during the campaign, and Obama was not. Obama certainly criticized some of the ways Bush was using signing statements, and you might try to make the case that he’s now sometimes using them in the same way, but that’s not the same as having flatly opposed them. His answer to a Boston Globe questionnaire in 2007 included the statement “No one doubts that it is appropriate to use signing statements to protect a president’s constitutional prerogatives.”

    Now maybe you’ll come back and say Obama is doing the same thing he criticized Bush for, so therefore he’s a hypocrite, so therefore you’re right and it’s OK to say that Obama opposed signing statements. Sorry, no. If your pithy little twitter line had said something about Obama being hypocritical, that would have been a debatable grey area, and I would not have complained. To say that he opposed signing statements, however, is just wrong.

    Comment by Foo Bar (c1726e) — 8/3/2011 @ 5:57 pm

  4. Before the first black president, Obama was against raising the debt ceiling,

    The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

    Comment by Dana (4eca6e) — 8/3/2011 @ 5:58 pm

  5. :roll:

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/3/2011 @ 5:59 pm

  6. #BeforeBlackPresidents it was patriotic, not racist, to dissent against the President’s policies.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents liberals deemed it unAmerican to question the patriotism of dissenters.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents Presidents were grown-ups, not petulant children.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents tax evasion by Cabinet officers were grounds for indictment, not appointment.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents Democrats supported free, fair, and open union elections as the right of all workers.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents it was expected that Presidents have a record of accomplishments BEFORE winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

    Comment by Rhymes With Right (8e1e35) — 8/3/2011 @ 5:59 pm

  7. Oops, I overlooked that Aaron had already posted this one…. but I think it’s good to be reminded of Obama’s quote from 2006.

    Comment by Dana (4eca6e) — 8/3/2011 @ 5:59 pm

  8. #BeforeBlackPresidents the VP was a qualified successor in case of death, not a reason to pray for the President’s continued health.

    Comment by Rhymes With Right (8e1e35) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:02 pm

  9. #BeforeBlackPresidents the idea that affirmative action produced less qualified hirees was only a theory, not a proven fact

    Comment by Rhymes With Right (8e1e35) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:04 pm

  10. #BeforeBlackPresidents we never had a Klingon First Lady. jll moH ghajjaj jaghHomllj.

    Comment by ropelight (9289fd) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:05 pm

  11. #BeforeBlackPresidents golf was a rich white man’s sport

    #BeforeBlackPresidents Martha’s Vineyard was a rich white man’s vacation destination

    #BeforeBlackPresidents arugula was a rich white man’s salad choice

    Comment by J D (9db227) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:07 pm

  12. Before the first black president, there was time to eat one’s waffles.

    Comment by Dana (4eca6e) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:08 pm

  13. That was not me.

    Comment by JD (3da201) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:08 pm

  14. #BeforeBlackPresidents I wasn’t accused of bitterly clinging to anything, much less a Bible…or my guns

    #BeforeBlackPresidents I didn’t view racism as a political weapon

    #BeforeBlackPresidents I never told a mocking high speed rail joke

    Comment by ppk_pixie (1df0c8) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:09 pm

  15. #BeforeBlackPresidents Qaddafi was a villain

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:09 pm

  16. #BeforeBlackPresidents mom jeans were laughed at on Jessica Simpson

    #BeforeBlackPresidents corpsmen wasn’t pronounced “corpse” men

    #BeforeBlackPresidents our CICs’ never gave “shout outs”, especially after a shooting

    Comment by ppk_pixie (1df0c8) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:11 pm

  17. Fubar needs a re-reading of the rules

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:12 pm

  18. #AfterBlackPresidents liberal race-baiting just as odious as #BeforeBlackPresidents

    Comment by gp (3e06cb) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:13 pm

  19. It’s the “Other J D”

    Comment by Other J D (9db227) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:13 pm

  20. #Before Black presidents, presidents didn’t bring teleprompters to their birthday celebration (h/t Tammy Bruce)

    Comment by ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:16 pm

  21. #BeforeBlackPresidents Jimmy Carter, Pearl Harbor, and Osama bin Laden were the worst things to ever happen to America.

    Comment by Rhymes With Right (8e1e35) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:17 pm

  22. Ropelight — that’s no Klingon! That’s Chewbacca’s uglier sister after an accident involving Nair.

    Comment by Rhymes With Right (8e1e35) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:19 pm

  23. Happyfeet wins.

    Comment by JD (3da201) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:19 pm

  24. I find the comments re Mrs. Obama’s physical appearance offensive. Not only as a female but mostly because it’s small and mean. Politics is one thing, but one’s physicality is simply what they are born with. It matters not a whit. At least, it shouldn’t.

    Comment by Dana (4eca6e) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:22 pm

  25. #BeforeBlackPresidents no CiC EVER bowed to a foreign leader.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents the Lockerbie bomber was considered an enemy combatant.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents no president feared his daughter being “punished with a baby”.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents presidents actually respected states rights, declining to comment on any pending state legislation.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents no president was ever photographed giving the finger to his opponent.

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:24 pm

  26. Qaddafi was misunderstood*

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:26 pm

  27. Dana — I find Mrs. Obama’s physical appearance offensive. Suck it up.

    Comment by Rhymes With Right (8e1e35) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:39 pm

  28. #BeforeBlackPresidents Slurpees were for the average joe, not the rich wall street fat cat banker elitists

    #BeforeBlackPresidents incumbents waited until at least late fall of the year preceding the election before campaigning for his next term.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents no one grandstanded that granny might not get a check to try and scare a vote their way

    #BeforeBlackPresidents shovel-ready was already a tired metaphor, but someone didn’t get the memo

    #BeforeBlackPresidents stimulus actually stimulated, and the administration didn’t personally negotiate bankrupcies in order to favor politically connected union debtholders

    #BeforeBlackPresidents saddling the Treasury with shares of a stock now worth less than it was ‘bought’ for wasn’t considered a savvy government investment

    #BeforeBlackPresidents that poor Queen of England had to buy her own damn iPod

    #BeforeBlackPresidents Let me be perfectly clear actually meant let me stop obfuscating and distorting things for a minute

    I thought this would be fun, but its actually turning out to be rather depressing.

    Comment by rtrski (0e7dc7) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:41 pm

  29. Comment by Dana — 8/3/2011 @ 6:22 pm

    Actually, I expect a lot of flack for this next comment, but here goes:

    I doubt I would agree with much of the First Lady’s worldview, but she has largely been gracious and proper in public. I honestly expected a more “in your face” attitude, much like our thin-skinned President. I applaud her concern for childhood obesity, even though I don’t agree with her proposed solutions. She is not particularly attractive or unattractive in my eyes, and every time I’ve seen her in public her bearing reminds me of our last First Lady, Laura Bush. Mrs. Obama is not acting like a rabble-rousing fanatic and doesn’t deserve the ad hom directed her way.

    I put the comments about her appearance in the same category as what Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter get regularly from progressives. Seeing it from conservatives has a diminishing and hateful effect and shouldn’t happen. Don’t we say we’re better than that?

    Comment by Stashiu3 (44da70) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:45 pm

  30. Gracious?

    Ya mean the lady who calls us downright mean?

    :lol:

    She is a rabble rouser you spineless wimp.

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:47 pm

  31. American Presidents didn’t bow to foreign leaders before we had a black President.

    I know Icy said it first but I still like it.

    Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:47 pm

  32. i think Michele O is an… ahem… mighty woman. But seriously it doesn’t bother me none.

    Comment by Aaron Worthing (73a7ea) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:50 pm

  33. Before Barcky, screaming racist at someone actually meant something.

    Before Barcky, leading had never been defined as not leading.

    Before Barcky, sparty was still a drooling imbecile.

    Comment by JD (2da347) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:54 pm

  34. be’HomDu’na’wIjtIq’a'Du’na’vaD ghureghqangqa’moHlaHqu’be’taH’a’ Somraw’a'meyna’wIj’e’.

    Comment by ropelight (9289fd) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:55 pm

  35. Before Baracky Chrissie Matthews wasn’t a raving dick[Although in 2003 he became a shill dick.]

    Before Baracky Spartacvs was still a crackhead.

    Before Baracky Charles Johnson wasn’t a raving jackoff.

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:56 pm

  36. Before Barcky, screaming racist at someone actually meant something.
    Before Barcky, leading had never been defined as not leading.
    Before Barcky, sparty was still a drooling imbecile.
    Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 6:54 pm

    1. No, it really didn’t.
    2. True… too true.
    3. Indeterminate in the sense it could imply that he’s not one now. Suggested revision: “sparty was still the same drooling imbecile he is now.”

    Glad to help. ;)

    Comment by Stashiu3 (44da70) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:59 pm

  37. Before black presidents, you had to actually do something more than getting elected before being awarded the Nobel peace prize.

    Comment by Soronel Haetir (29fbb7) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:01 pm

  38. #BeforeBlackPresidents black farmers had to actually work their farms.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents our nation was NEVER involved in more than 2 wars at the same time.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents Michael Moore was merely a liar; now, he’s a liar AND a hypocrite.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents the level of discourse on the Left was (slightly) more civil.

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:06 pm

  39. Before black presidents:

    1. You didn’t have Government Motors Corp.
    2. There was not government run health care for everyone.
    3. There were no government run death panels in health care.
    4. There were no government run banks excepting congress’.
    5. There were no presidents trash talking the USA.
    6. There were no presidents apologizing to everyone about the USA.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:06 pm

  40. #BeforeBlackPresidents environmentalists would have objected if BP spewed millions of gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico.

    Comment by ropelight (9289fd) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:11 pm

  41. Before black presidents:

    William Ayers was a scumbag Marxist terrorist… oh, wait…

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:17 pm

  42. Comment by Stashiu3 — 8/3/2011 @ 6:45 pm

    Very interesting comment, Stashiu3.

    Like any First Lady, I think our current First Lady is very attractive when she dresses nicely and has a smile on her face.

    This is a terrific example. Here’s another. And another.

    My big problem with her is twofold. One, that her face so often appears angry (and no, not just in this photo) in a way I haven’t noticed in most other First Ladies. Second, I have never seen photos of a first lady in such “grungy” dress in so many occasions that reflect badly on the US. This is just the most famous example but there are many others.

    My theory is that both issues above remind people that, as with the expensive vacations and the NYC date nights and the golf and inaugurations that cost four times any previous ones (IIRC the cost of these types of items actually does far exceed other presidents’), Mrs. Obama, as well as President Obama, puts herself and her own comfort or impulses first before thinking of how her expenditures, public facial expressions, dress etc. represent the US as first ladies usually do. (Somehow I don’t think Laura Bush always wanted to wear those classy, hot suits all summer.) That’s the problem: the symptom is the angry face and the ratty shorts, the cause is the “me first” mentality.

    The other, related, problem IMO is that liberals have no problem calling people like Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann political-parody names like Caribou Barbie, etc. And that’s just fine — they’re public figures and parody, whether you agree with the substance or not, is appropriate.

    But political parody is supposedly off limits for the Obamas, so (I’ve made this same point in asockpuppet Friday thread or two :) ) we’re racists if we call Mrs. Obama the First Klingon, even though she wears Klingon-like belts, has a high forehead, a sometimes severe or angry face and has a reputation for a temper.

    I think First Klingon as parody by conservatives fits her to a tee. Just as I think Caribou Barbie, by liberals (who, unlike me, consider her vapid), is perfectly fine parody.

    Sorry for the long comment but I feel strongly about the underlying issues as you can see.

    Comment by no one you know (325a59) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:19 pm

  43. #BeforeBlackPresidents the average American wasn’t paid to NOT work for 99 consecutive weeks.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents no candidate ever labelled their own flesh & blood a racist.

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:19 pm

  44. #BeforeBlackPresidents American citizens could assemble peacefully and demand their elected leaders stop raising taxes without being labeled as sexual deviants or violent terrorists.

    Comment by ropelight (9289fd) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:20 pm

  45. Before black presidents:
    * the economy didn’t have the bottom knocked out of it
    * flippin’ burgers didn’t require a PhD
    * a curtsy was something only a young lady could pull off

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:31 pm

  46. #BeforeBlackPresidents there were many, many people in the public eye that had NEVER played the race card.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents Gitmo was the worst abomination in the history of this great nation. Now . . .

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:35 pm

  47. Before black presidents I had a job.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:36 pm

  48. #BeforeBlackPresidents US government law enforcement agencies didn’t sell sniper rifles and assault weapons to Mexican drug kingpins.

    Comment by ropelight (9289fd) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:36 pm

  49. Before black presidents, the only ears that were that big were on Dumbo.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:37 pm

  50. Before black presidents:
    * the only thing we had to fear was fear itself
    * Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Assad and a few others had little reason to feel confident

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:38 pm

  51. I found post #2 to be crude, vulgar, sexist, homophobic…

    …and funnier than hell.

    Of, course, I thought the movie “Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back” was a masterpiece of comedy, so that tells you all you need to know about my standards.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:38 pm

  52. Before black presidents no one had ever heard of TOTUS.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:39 pm

  53. Before black presidents, it was easy working at McD’s. You only had to ask,”Do you want fries with that?” Not friggin apples.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:42 pm

  54. Comment by no one you know — 8/3/2011 @ 7:19 pm

    I really don’t like it when they “parody” Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann, but I realize the candidates themselves are usually fair game. The families should be off-limits, regardless of race, and just because the progressives do it is no excuse for us. It pissed me off when they called Mrs. Bush a drunk and a murderer, or when they went after the teenage twins for behaving like teenagers. I think that anger is justified and a lot of the anger at people bashing Mrs. Obama and the girls is equally justified.

    I would contend that no matter what she did as far as dress or public statements, many who bash her now would still be bashing her… just because of her politics (and her husband). Her overall behavior has been appropriate (IMHO) and she wasn’t the driving force behind the NYC dates, inaugurations, etc… What was she supposed to do when her husband says “It’s okay”? He’s the politician and it reflects on him and his staff, not her. I just don’t see anything but meanness in those comments about her, especially the ones about her appearance.

    YMMV of course.

    Comment by Stashiu3 (44da70) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:45 pm

  55. Before black presidents:
    * people never believed “feeling good about oneself” was the primary motivation to elect someone to high office

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:46 pm

  56. Before black presidents, date night was dinner and a movie. Without using Air Force One.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:46 pm

  57. Before black presidents “Chicago way” was a pizza style and not a back-stabbing, nepotistic, ward politics infection of Washington, D.C.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:51 pm

  58. Stashiu,

    I give her no slack whatsoever. After all, SHE injected herself into this with her nasty little snide comment during the election about it being the first time that she was proud of the USA. Yeah real classy patriot there.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:51 pm

  59. It will make me very proud when they kick this little two bit wannabe dictator out of office on his ass.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:53 pm

  60. I find the comments re Mrs. Obama’s physical appearance offensive. Not only as a female but mostly because it’s small and mean. Politics is one thing, but one’s physicality is simply what they are born with. It matters not a whit. At least, it shouldn’t.

    Comment by Dana — 8/3/2011 @ 6:22 pm

    How did I miss this comment when reading the thread; sorry about that, Dana.

    Sorta can’t believe I feel the way I do about people making comments about Mrs. Obama (used to regularly give people grief over at Hot Air about the “cankles,” etc., mean comments about Mrs. Clinton). And while I respect your opinion as always, it appears to me that most comments “about her appearance” really aren’t about her appearance. Last comment was too long so…nuff said.

    Comment by no one you know (325a59) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:54 pm

  61. Before black presidents:

    Grandmothers – of any hue – were very seldom thrown under a bus

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:55 pm

  62. #BeforeBlackPresidents Happy Meals were actually happy.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents Bill Maher managed, on occasion, to be funny.

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:57 pm

  63. Before black presidents:

    there were never more than 50 states

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:57 pm

  64. Obama is not a President, black or otherwise. He is a wanabe Tiger Witless.

    Comment by nk (db4a41) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:57 pm

  65. Feel free to criticize inartful comments, policy statements that you don’t agree with, or heck, anything you please. I wouldn’t dream of saying you can’t do it.

    I’m saying it reflects on you as much as her. I lost a lot of respect for happyfeet when he was so obsessively cruel regarding Sarah Palin and her daughter. I daresay I’m not alone in that. If the respect of others here doesn’t matter to you, bash away. I’m with the prettier Dana on this one.

    Comment by Stashiu3 (44da70) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:58 pm

  66. @ NOYK,

    I enjoyed reading your thoughtful comment (and Stashiu @ 29).

    My theory is that both issues above remind people that, as with the expensive vacations and the NYC date nights and the golf and inaugurations that cost four times any previous ones (IIRC the cost of these types of items actually does far exceed other presidents’), Mrs. Obama, as well as President Obama, puts herself and her own comfort or impulses first before thinking of how her expenditures, public facial expressions, dress etc. represent the US as first ladies usually do.

    I think there is some truth to this: From the right, we see her as self-indulged and rather than caring about her image at large, she is about Michelle, keeping it real.

    However, from the left there is great support for her everyday-common woman appearance. She’s one of us, she can morph from understated elegant couture to just another mom. Women from all walks of life seem to be able to personally relate to her because she is one of the people. Laura Bush, while always well put together in a conservative classic, clean line, was not related to in the same way.

    I found all the Caribou Barbie nonsense small and mean (especially from other women) and reflecting poorly on the seriousness and integrity of the left. I’m not inclined to give name callers my time or attention. So if they had another message or point of view to impart, I wasn’t listening. When the right falls into the same habit, it belittles and diminishes as a group, as well as giving ammo to the other side.

    Comment by Dana (4eca6e) — 8/3/2011 @ 7:59 pm

  67. Comment by Stashiu3 — 8/3/2011 @ 7:45 pm

    You make several very good points, esp about the families as opposed to the candidates themselves. (Maybe I was thinking of the Spain trip since that was more recent.) Re: his decisions vs. hers, too, am wondering now that I think of it (and I truly don’t know the answer) how much flack Mrs. Obama would be taking now from people if she hadn’t “made waves,” on her own so to speak, with some of her child-obesity-solutions proposals.

    Comment by no one you know (325a59) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:00 pm

  68. Icy Texan… the only thing that’s funny about Maher is that look he gets on that mug only-a-blind-mother-could-love when he’s confused… which is quite often.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:00 pm

  69. Before Black Presidents…

    there were a whole lot less egg-shells to navigate around and through…

    Presidents were elected who had accomplished something other than voting “Present”.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (3b92f0) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:06 pm

  70. Presidents were elected who had accomplished something

    GW Bush?

    Comment by Spartacvs (2d9449) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:08 pm

  71. Before Baracky stereotyping jews as cheap was wrong…..oh wait leftys did it then and now.

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:08 pm

  72. GW Bush?

    Comment by Spartacvs

    He was governor of a tiny insignificant state. He managed to bridge a partisan divide pretty well there, but Gore trying to steal a presidential election completely ruined any hope Bush could do so on a national level. Al Gore truly is an unpatriotic and short sighted little child.

    Comment by Dustin (b7410e) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:10 pm

  73. #BeforeBlackPresidents being on “the right side of history” meant actually doing the right thing.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents Socialism was — deservedly — a dirty word.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents Michelle Obama was never proud of her country.

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:10 pm

  74. Sparticles isn’t playing correctly

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:14 pm

  75. Well Texas is not insignificant, certainly not in the same way that Arkansas was, but Clinton was painted like some Razorback Cicero, while under Bush’s tenure, it was depicted like the bleak Harkonnen homeworld Gledi Prime. In the same way a hack politician from the old Chicago machine,
    buoyed by radicals, was portrayed as the second coming of Adlai Stevenson,

    Comment by ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:16 pm

  76. “GW Bush?”

    Well, I suppose in some circle, being elected Governor (twice) of one of the 6-largest states by population, the second largest by area, and IIRC the largest in terms of oil production, is not accomplishing anything; but, one election to the office of State Treasurer got Ma Richards a keynote address at the Democratic National Convention where she uttered those famous words:
    “Poor George, he can’t he’p it…”

    and then, “W” wiped the floor with her when she ran for re-election as Governor in ’94. – payback is truly a .itch, and best served cold.

    But, you knew all this right?
    And that question-mark was just a rhetorical device?

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (3b92f0) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:17 pm

  77. Well Texas is not insignificant,

    Of course not.

    There’s no need to dignify the ridiculous idea that Barack Obama was as accomplished as a successful governor of such a dynamic state. It’s just trolling.

    Comment by Dustin (b7410e) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:18 pm

  78. the second coming of Adlai Stevenson

    Obummer is such a light-weight, he could never wear holes in Adlai’s shoes.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (3b92f0) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:19 pm

  79. #BeforeBlackPresidents Lawrence O’Donnell’s anti-Mormon rants were considered unseemly.

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:23 pm

  80. it was depicted like the bleak Harkonnen homeworld Gledi Prime.

    HA, btw.

    AD, I never much liked Gov Richards. But damn if that isn’t a great person to bring up in this thread.

    Clayton Williams should have shaken her damn hand and treated her with respect. Even if it was artificial respect. Things would have worked out a lot differently.

    I just plain don’t like Michelle Obama. I don’t like the clothes and the flaunting and the nanny routine about McDonalds and normal people’s diets as she actually seems to go out of her way to show she is above her own rules.

    But she is the first lady. She’s basically expected to pick a cause and do her best with it. She’s going to have to glam it up… that’s part of the job. I think she’s a corrupt Chicago hack who is a big part of why her hubby palled around with some bad apples, but I’ll keep my criticisms as constrained as possible to specifics like that because I have seen the lesson of Clayton Williams not shaking Ann Richards’s hand.

    Comment by Dustin (b7410e) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:24 pm

  81. Before President Spartacvs masturbated furiously.

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:26 pm

  82. _______________________________________________

    am i the only person 2 notice that there haven’t been 2 black presidents yet? or are we counting Bill Clinton again?

    Come to think of it, characterizing a guy who’s flaky (infamous for always showing up late to meetings and appointments), scroungy, dysfunctional (Hi, Monica! Hi, Hillary “eaten more pussy than I have” Clinton!), lewd and crude (a black guy walking down a street in Arkansas is spotted by Bill, who sneers “that guy is a “troublemaking n–ger”) with criminal tendencies (Hi, Juanita Broaddrick!) as somehow being America’s first black president really speaks volumes. Most notably, that characterization never raised the ire of most black politicians, black activists and/or the leftosphere in general.

    One thing that’s obvious: 95-plus percent (based on surveys) of the African-American populace being dyed-in-the-wool Democrats and mindless liberals truly means that such a community will therefore be more humane, caring, civil, sophisticated, well educated, prosperous, stable and pleasant than average. Yep, uh-huh.

    Comment by Mark (411533) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:30 pm

  83. #BeforeBlackPresidents skin color wasn’t an excuse for incompetence.

    Comment by ropelight (9289fd) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:31 pm

  84. As one who happens to find the Klingon comparison to be appropriate (and an Imperial Klingon, judging by the ridges), is it not a term of respect ? It’s not like she is being compared to the first Star Trek Klingons, about whom the modern Klingons prefer not to talk … (grin)

    As for First Ladies being respected, I do seem to remember that GHDubya was complimented on being so popular that his wife’s pic was on the $1 bill … not so different, is it ?

    Comment by Alasdair (205079) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:31 pm

  85. Σπάρτακος is just a simple minded little troll that can only hack up dimwit talking points from media matters like a cat hacking up furballs. Pay him no mind.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:34 pm

  86. Well, at least people weren’t saying that GW was better looking that Barbara – or were they?

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (3b92f0) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:36 pm

  87. #BeforeBlackPresidents the United States and Israel were unshakable allies.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents women in politics were treated with more respect.

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:41 pm

  88. _______________________________________________

    I don’t like the clothes and the flaunting and the nanny routine about McDonalds

    There was a small story several weeks ago about a reporter (I believe for the Washington Post) observing Michelle Obama at some burger joint in DC ordering and buying a Diet Coke.

    That reminded me of her husband a few years ago in Illinois giving a lecture about the perils of global warming, which took place at a location he drove to in his gas-guzzling SUV.

    Is buying a natural fruit juice instead of fake-sugar crap like Diet Cola such a huge sacrifice??! Is driving around in a mid-sized car (or, say, a nice compact BMW) instead of some big, heavy 4-wheel vehicle such a major sacrifice?!!

    Limousine liberals are so pathetic and laughable. In some ways they’re also just a bit disgusting.

    Comment by Mark (411533) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:45 pm

  89. Before President Obama*

    Be back later.

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:48 pm

  90. This person really favors this one
    that stole happy meals.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:49 pm

  91. Limousine liberals are so pathetic and laughable. In some ways they’re also just a bit disgusting.

    Comment by Mark — 8/3/2011 @ 8:45 pm

    Yes. It’s just so very lame and arrogant.

    However, I know this has aroused something in my heart that makes me much more annoyed with the normal first lady stuff than I would otherwise be. She is a liberal First Lady. That is what America chose, and it’s no surprise her project will have that ‘let your betters think of the children’ attitude.

    It’s important to compartmentalize. And keep it in perspective. This is not nearly as important as practically anything else going on in that part of that town these days. All this wookie stuff is counterproductive.

    Clayton Williams actually probably had a good reason not to respect Ann Richards, but he should have swallowed hard and showed her respect anyway. Respecting the First Lady is not really about Michelle, IMO, but about politics.

    Comment by Dustin (b7410e) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:51 pm

  92. #BeforeBlackPresidents “wise Latinas” didn’t beclown themselves on the bench of the highest court in the land.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents constitutional scholars tended to limit their interpretations to what is really in the Constitution.

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:55 pm

  93. Icy, Lame Leftists have been making things up about the Constitution for decades, it didn’t take Obummer to bring them out of their closet, or to the fore.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (3b92f0) — 8/3/2011 @ 8:59 pm

  94. #BBP The oceans were rising approximately 8 feet per day.

    #BBP The deficit was double what it is now.

    #BPP GITMO housed bad guys indefinitely.

    #BPP The USA rushed to war without adequate authorization.

    #BPP The White House was engaged in unbelievable intrustions into privacy.

    #BPP The WH had to request debt ceiling increases because of “leadership failure.”

    #BPP Unemployment was more than 5%!

    Comment by Dustin (b7410e) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:03 pm

  95. And I know Gitmo is not an acronym. It’s just funnier that way.

    Comment by Dustin (b7410e) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:04 pm

  96. #BeforeBlackPresidents the U.S. did decide to unilaterally reduce its stockpile of nuclear weapons.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents CICs did not call the actions of local law enforcement stupid before learning the facts.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents the continued government funding of Planned Parenthood did not almost cause a government shutdown.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:04 pm

  97. #BeforeBlackPresidents the President said he wouldn’t eat broccoli, not that I had to eat my peas.

    Comment by Conserve Liberty (cf8d65) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:04 pm

  98. #96 First item should read “did not”

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:05 pm

  99. And I know Gitmo is not an acronym. It’s just funnier that way.

    I think we hashed this out several years ago.
    GTMO is the official acronym, and everyone pronounces it as “GITMO”, which is how it has entered the lexicon.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (3b92f0) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:09 pm

  100. #BeforeBlackPresidents the oceans were going to continue to rise.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:10 pm

  101. Before black presidents, he would have been serving me coffee.

    Comment by Bill Clinton (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:14 pm

  102. #Before black presidents the only czars were from Russia.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:17 pm

  103. #76 – Whoa, Kudos. I’m impressed.

    Comment by Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:22 pm

  104. B.B.P. I never felt that Black people respected or liked me.
    Now I can just tell that they know that I voted for President Obama…just by my smile and eye contact.
    I just know, that’s all.

    Comment by '08 Voter, still feeling good (bb9991) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:22 pm

  105. #BeforeBlackPresidents I could happily consume my Captain Crunch in peace, but alas…
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/time-stockpile-lucky-charms_577801.html

    …Frosted Flakes, I loved thee well…

    Comment by ppk_pixie (1df0c8) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:29 pm

  106. #BeforeBlackPresidents Sean Penn, Heidi Klum and Seal, Susan Sarandon, and other celebritards threatened to leave the country if the old white guy won. Unfortunately, they and all of their idiotic opinions are still with is.

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:29 pm

  107. #Before Black Presidents the Messiah was Lord and Savior, not a Chicago thug.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:32 pm

  108. #Before Black Presidents I was proud of my country.

    Back at ya Moochelle.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:34 pm

  109. #Before Black Presidents I was proud of my country.

    Back at ya Moochelle.

    Comment by peedoffamerican

    Now I feel bad that I asked people to show her respect. I completely forgot about that unpatriotic and selfish crap. What a shame she’s our First Lady.

    Comment by Dustin (b7410e) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:37 pm

  110. #Before Black Presidents I was a Patriotic American, now I am a Tea Party Terrorist.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:39 pm

  111. I Never Ever forgot it Dustin. That is why IMHO she deserves no amount of respect or slack whatsoever.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:41 pm

  112. #BeforeBlackPresidents the POTUS respected the SCOTUS during the State of the Union speech.

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:44 pm

  113. I mean especially the nerve of a hypocrite like her to demand that McD’s offer apple slices instead of fries in happy meals while she scarfs down 4000 calories worth of hamburger, fries, and shake. And I bet the little tykes throw the apple slices on the floor and scream for fries.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:45 pm

  114. #BeforeBlackPresidents “I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and every mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plains and the crooked places will be made straight and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together.”

    Not because the President doesn’t believe it, but because the political implication of recognizing King’s words would deprive the left of it’s rampant, hollow insult.

    Comment by Ag80 (9a213d) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:48 pm

  115. A duck walks into a bar. The bartender says, “Hi, how are you doing?”

    The duck says, “My names Huey. I’m happy, the sun is shining and I have been in and out of puddles all day long. I’ll have a beer.”

    A few minutes later another duck walks in. He says, “My name is Duey. I’m very happy. The sun is shining and I’ve been in and out of puddles all day long. I’ll have a beer.”

    A few minutes pass by and a third duck walks into the bar.

    The bartender says, “Let me guess, your name is Looey.”

    The third duck says, “Nope, may name’s Puddles.”

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:57 pm

  116. “After all, SHE injected herself into this with her nasty little snide comment during the election about it being the first time that she was proud of the USA. Yeah real classy patriot there.”

    Agreed. She became 100% fair game the moment she started spewing that “American sucked until we started running it” crap.

    ANY comment about her is now justified, including snide remarks about her big fat butt.

    You want to start talking that smack about the USA, you got it coming.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:58 pm

  117. #104, Well, it could be that, or it could be that they think that you’re so loopy that you scare the hell out of them. :-)

    Comment by Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 8/3/2011 @ 9:59 pm

  118. #Before Black Presidents we didn’t have 9/11 Truthers receive presidential appointments.

    #Before Black Presidents we didn’t have public White House snitch lines or email addy’s.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/3/2011 @ 10:07 pm

  119. Aaron – How are we doing?

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/3/2011 @ 10:07 pm

  120. I found post #2 to be crude, vulgar, sexist, homophobic……and funnier than hell.

    Homophobic? Madcow is secretly a guy?

    Comment by Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/3/2011 @ 10:17 pm

  121. …Frosted Flakes, I loved thee well…

    Wait… They’re getting rid of Frosted Flakes???

    That’s it. Time for an armed insurrection…

    Comment by Scott Jacobs (3d2362) — 8/3/2011 @ 10:23 pm

  122. Foo Bar @1 – As usual you are splitting hairs. People of your ilk vigorously objected to the way George Bush allegedly used signing statements. When asked when he was campaigning whether or not he would use them in the same way, Obama’s answer was an unequivocal no – typically supported by a phrase along the following lines:

    “we’re not going to use signing statements as a way of doing an end run around Congress.”

    He has clearly violated that pledge as he has most of his campaign promises. If you can’t see the hypocrisy there, you need to open your good eye.

    Here is a video of Obama clearly explaining his position.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/3/2011 @ 10:25 pm

  123. Wait… They’re getting rid of Frosted Flakes???

    That’s it. Time for an armed insurrection…
    Comment by Scott Jacobs — 8/3/2011 @ 10:23 pm

    I know, right?? So…do you want an AK, an AR, or a mac daddy MX2010 sniper rifle? I’m sure I have a cannon in here, sharks with laser beams…somewhere ;-)

    Comment by ppk_pixie (1df0c8) — 8/3/2011 @ 10:33 pm

  124. “Madcow is secretly a guy?”

    Wouldn’t surprise me.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/3/2011 @ 10:39 pm

  125. I’ll take the sniper rifle, and find a good spot to camp their spawn…

    What? It’s a legitimate strategy!!!

    Comment by Scott Jacobs (3d2362) — 8/3/2011 @ 11:07 pm

  126. #121 – The current administration is the most out-of-control and the most disruptive and the most divisive administration in the history of this country, the effects of which are being felt not just here in this country, but all around the world, also, and what’s more, the liberals are elated and giddy and they love it. With their flagrant abuses of power and their sleaziness, nobody, but nobody has ever done more to disrupt the peace and tranquilty of this country from within in virtually every way imaginable already, and yet they keep coming up with new ways to be obnoxious and to create further chaos. They aren’t just sleazy. They are evil. How would you put [that] into BeforeBlackPresidents, etc. …..?

    Comment by Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 8/3/2011 @ 11:35 pm

  127. “The current administration is the most out-of-control and the most disruptive and the most divisive administration in the history of this country…”

    I dunno, I think the Lincoln administration might have been a shade more divisive.

    The Dems didn’t seem to care for him too much.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/3/2011 @ 11:40 pm

  128. #127 – Dave Surls @ 11:40 p.m. 08-03-11

    I considered the Lincoln Administration.
    Do you want to reconsider your response?

    Comment by Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 8/4/2011 @ 12:09 am

  129. What? It’s a legitimate strategy!!!

    Comment by Scott Jacobs — 8/3/2011 @ 11:07 pm

    All’s fair in love, war and any tactic that gets me whatever I’m after ;-P

    Comment by ppk_pixie (1df0c8) — 8/4/2011 @ 12:46 am

  130. Ah. So you aren’t a Red vs Blue fan.

    A pity.

    I was starting to like you. :)

    Comment by Scott Jacobs (3d2362) — 8/4/2011 @ 12:48 am

  131. I was starting to like you. :)

    Comment by Scott Jacobs — 8/4/2011 @ 12:48 am

    But I have sniper rifles…what’s not to like? LOL

    Comment by ppk_pixie (1df0c8) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:09 am

  132. Addendum to #126

    It is difficult to not include the Congressional Black Caucus and their [extremely] liberal white sycophants in Congress (like Nancy Pelosi) with this current administration, because, in a very real sense, they [are] an integral part of this administration, imo.

    The blacks have been complaining for years that, if they were in charge, they would run our country differently.

    Well, they were just given that opportunity with the help of Nancy Pelosi and her ilk, and they took their best shot, and they blew it, making an already bad situation much, much worse, imo.

    They cannot be trusted to run this country. With their redistribution of wealth scheme, their primary objective was to, on a massive scale, rip-off whitey, and to redistribute wealth and power from whites to people of color not just in this country, but in other countries in the world, also, all to vent Obama’s irrational hatred of what he calls colonialists …., you know, those guys who would have left people of color living in a stone age if only those white devils had stayed in Europe?

    If tou disagree, you are a Communist and an hermaphrodite of questionable progeny. :-)

    Comment by Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:17 am

  133. But I have sniper rifles…what’s not to like?

    You make a compelling argument… :)

    Comment by Scott Jacobs (3d2362) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:27 am

  134. “Do you want to reconsider your response?”

    No.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:28 am

  135. This story begins well, but then like the old Sesame Street line ‘one of these, is not like
    the other’

    She joins Michelle Obama and Carla Bruni-Sarkozy as the most high profile women on the 72nd list compiled by the glossy magazine.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2022009/Duchess-Cambridge-Kate-Middleton-leads-style-set-Vanity-Fair-Best-Dressed-list.html#ixzz1U3mSF2uR

    Comment by ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/4/2011 @ 4:50 am

  136. Meanwhile, I wonder what a certain fellow has to say about this:

    Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski on Wednesday continued to refuse to answer questions about her top fisheries advisor, who faces nearly a year in prison after he admitted lying about illegally catching at least $100,000 worth of sablefish.

    Read more: http://www.adn.com/2011/08/03/1999545/senator-quiet-on-aides-fishing.html#ixzz1U3nQBlln

    Comment by ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/4/2011 @ 4:54 am

  137. Before Barackstar competence was the norm.

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:19 am

  138. Before black Presidents we didn’t loan 2 billion to Brazil for off shore drilling, while not drilling
    here in the US.

    Comment by Jack (e3d9ab) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:21 am

  139. “Madcow is secretly a guy?”
    – What part of this is a ‘secret’?

    “Madcow is secretly a guy?”
    – Have you ever seen her and her ‘guest-host’ Chris Hayes in the same room together?

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:21 am

  140. :lol:

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:27 am

  141. No have you ever seen her and Charles Johnson in the same room?

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:37 am

  142. #BeforeBlackPresidents you didn’t have to ask a candidate if he knew who his father was.

    Comment by ropelight (b4d1ad) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:21 am

  143. #BeforeBlackPresidents Africa was relatively genocide-free

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:42 am

  144. #BeforeBlackPresidents you weren’t racist.

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:44 am

  145. #BeforeBlackPresidents any candidate that dared answer a question with “that’s above my pay grade” was guaranteed to lose. Ditto any candidate whose preacher said “God d*** America,” or who launched his campaign in the home of a convicted domestic terrorist.

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:50 am

  146. this could be funny if the setup was funny, and focused on the topic, but it wasn’t well-edited.

    Comment by koam @wittier (ca9b11) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:55 am

  147. WTF are you ^^^ squeaking about?

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:59 am

  148. #BeforeBlackPresidents Jimmy Carter was merely an anti-Semite. Now he can proudly add “race-card player” to his resumé.

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/4/2011 @ 7:02 am

  149. #BeforeBlackPresidents Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson had almost completely faded into obscurity.

    Comment by Icy Texan (093cc2) — 8/4/2011 @ 7:05 am

  150. #BeforeBlackPresidents we never had a Food Stamp President.

    Comment by ropelight (b4d1ad) — 8/4/2011 @ 8:04 am

  151. This entire thing is so far beyond parody …

    Comment by JD (b98cae) — 8/4/2011 @ 8:10 am

  152. “But I have sniper rifles…what’s not to like? LOL”

    ppk_pixie – RAWR!!! Send pictures of your sniper rifles. Heh.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/4/2011 @ 8:17 am

  153. Don’t send pix, just send used targets.
    - Matthew Quigley

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 8:25 am

  154. Windage and elevation, pixie, windage and elevation.

    Comment by ropelight (b4d1ad) — 8/4/2011 @ 9:11 am

  155. Michelle sent me an email asking me to sign a birthday card for Barack this morning:

    Every day, I see Barack make choices he knows will affect every American family. That’s no small task for anyone — and more proof that he’s earning every last one of those gray hairs.

    This has been a busy week in Washington, but today happens to be Barack’s 50th birthday. I’m writing to you because this year, the girls and I would like to do something a little different.

    I’m asking friends and supporters of this campaign to wish him a happy birthday by signing his card, and sharing why you’re on this journey with us.

    Your names and notes will become part of a book that tells the story of this campaign — who’s building it, why we’re in this thing, and what he means to us. We’ll deliver a copy to Barack and send one to our campaign offices across the country……………….

    I’ve known Barack for more than 20 of his 50 years, and we’ve been through quite a lot together.

    It still amazes me that no matter how many decisions and distractions he’s faced with every day, he’s always able to focus on the bigger picture. One way he does that is by making time for stories and letters from people like you — because he knows that this job isn’t about him, but about the millions of folks around the country he’s fighting for.

    This next year will challenge us all to work harder than ever before, but the crucial thing is that you’re here now, early on, helping to build this campaign.

    I know that, like Barack and me, you have your own reasons why, so I hope you’ll take a moment to sign the card and share your story with him and other supporters of this campaign.”

    She is in this 100%.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/4/2011 @ 10:05 am

  156. daley, we know who wears the pants in that family.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 10:07 am

  157. 25. #BeforeBlackPresidents no president feared his daughter being “punished with a baby”.

    Comment by Icy Texan — 8/3/2011 @ 6:24 pm

    Had forgotten that one. Begs the question: Who does Obama believe is doing the “punishing”? If God, does Barak doubt the wisdom of an the other omniscient being? (Yes, yes, strictly rhetorical…)

    Comment by porkopolitan (eb6a89) — 8/4/2011 @ 10:11 am

  158. “daley, we know who wears the pants in that family.”

    AD – With the NFL strike over, I though Michelle was busy at training camp.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/4/2011 @ 10:14 am

  159. Ooh this is fun!

    Lemme try…

    #BeforeBlackPresidents Bin Laden had gotten away with 9/11.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents doing socially conscious work like community organizing was considered commendable and seldom mocked.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents no one had used the term “uppity” to describe a president.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents the individual mandate was a republican idea designed to make everyone pay their fair share.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents few people derided living in Hawaii as being less of an “American Experience”.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents electronically genrated certifications of live births with raised seals and doctors’ signatures were accepted as proof of citizenship.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents candidates were seldom blamed for crises occuring before they took office.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents a President had to actually raise taxes before people started whining about their taxes being raised.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents the continued existence of GM and Chrysler was considered a good thing.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents it wasn’t too difficult to find reasoned insightful posts by conservatives on the internet.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents most amateur constitutional scholars had actually read the constitution.

    Fun game.

    Comment by Luke (0e1754) — 8/4/2011 @ 10:41 am

  160. “Luke” is kid of slow. Real slow.

    Comment by JD (822109) — 8/4/2011 @ 10:52 am

  161. Darth’s son really knows how to whiz ‘em by ya!

    /sarc

    Comment by Leonardo DaFinchi (5d253a) — 8/4/2011 @ 10:59 am

  162. Where did “luke” copy and paste that from?

    Comment by JD (d48c3b) — 8/4/2011 @ 11:09 am

  163. The enquirer are trying to make Michele Bachmann a bigot…………………….we all know that is a lie.

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:09 pm

  164. BBP – We never had a Community Agitator as President!

    BBP – No President returned the Winston Churchill bust!

    BBP – America supported Israel!

    BBP – We knew the President’s background!

    BBP – No President’s goal wasdestroy the American economy to “redistribute the wealth!”

    Comment by Juan (afad20) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:10 pm

  165. BBP – We never had a Community Agitator as President!

    BBP – No President returned the Winston Churchill bust!

    BBP – America supported Israel!

    BBP – We knew the President’s background!

    BBP – No President’s goal was destroy the American economy to “redistribute the wealth!”

    Comment by Juan (afad20) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:11 pm

  166. Did anyone else see Taranto in the WSJ “best of the web” today just got into the act?

    (He provides a quote wherein someone says BO is safe from a primary because the DNC doesn’t want to offend African American voters, then continues with his own text.) …Here is a man of the left arguing that Obama is benefitting politically from race-based solicitude because he is black. #BeforeBlackPresidents, a failed president had to worry about a primary challenge.

    I hope that worked right…not getting the live preview at the moment for some reason.

    Comment by rtrski (b47753) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:11 pm

  167. Before black presidents, luke was still an insane lying little libturd.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:15 pm

  168. @JD. Yeah I’m real slow. Oh did you not like the inferences? Were any of them false or even hyperbolic? And yes I have links to people claiming the mere prospect of Obama’s election tanked the markets in 2008.

    Go ahead and Google each one of my BBPs to see if I’ve plagiarized. Some of us are actually capable of generating original content. I can do some that make Obama look bad too, only it won’t be from a direction you agree with.

    @peedoffamerican – thanks. I feed on your inarticulate rage.

    Comment by Luke (0e1754) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:25 pm

  169. Nothing inarticulate about it at all. Me seems to think that inarticulate doesn’t mean what u think it means.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:29 pm

  170. I feed on your inarticulate rage.
    Comment by Luke — 8/4/2011 @ 1:25 pm

    This word you are using. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    Comment by Stashiu3 (44da70) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:29 pm

  171. Comment by peedoffamerican — 8/4/2011 @ 1:29 pm

    Jinx. ;)

    Comment by Stashiu3 (44da70) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:30 pm

  172. Next time try using one or two syllable words that you might be more comfortable using and understanding.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:31 pm

  173. LOL Stashiu

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:32 pm

  174. It also might help if you try sounding them out as you type.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:33 pm

  175. “Fun game.”

    You can have all the fun you want to, and when you’re all done, Obama will still be one of the worst presidents in U.S. history.

    Not the worst, but one of the worst.

    Of course, he’s still got one more year (at least) to really screw things up. So, don’t write him off. He still has a shot at making it to the bottom of the heap.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:53 pm

  176. #BeforeBlackPresidents Bin Laden had gotten away with 9/11.
    – One life for 3,000. He still ‘got away with it’, dude.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents doing socially conscious work like community organizing was considered commendable and seldom mocked.
    – Sure it was. The problem in Obama’s case was that it was his only accomplishment: selling minorities on the idea that they have to vote Democrat so the government can keep helping them, because they cannot help themselves. Hopey changey!

    #BeforeBlackPresidents no one had used the term “uppity” to describe a president.
    – And who, pray tell, has done this?

    #BeforeBlackPresidents the individual mandate was a republican idea designed to make everyone pay their fair share.
    – And it was a bad idea. Feel free to take credit for borrowing it. 

    #BeforeBlackPresidents few people derided living in Hawaii as being less of an “American Experience”.
    – Citations, please. 

    #BeforeBlackPresidents electronically genrated certifications of live births with raised seals and doctors’ signatures were accepted as proof of citizenship.
    – As were original documents. But when the governor of Hawaii claims to have seen that document, and then cannot produce it …

    #BeforeBlackPresidents candidates were seldom blamed for crises occuring before they took office.
    – Are you speaking of the economy, which Obama has said  he takes ownership of?

    #BeforeBlackPresidents a President had to actually raise taxes before people started whining about their taxes being raised.
    – Right. The promise/threat to raise taxes is not cause for alarm. 

    #BeforeBlackPresidents the continued existence of GM and Chrysler was considered a good thing.
    – The continued existence of those companies with private American ownership, yes. 

    #BeforeBlackPresidents it wasn’t too difficult to find reasoned insightful posts by conservatives on the internet.
    – And it’s even easier now. In fact, you are in the right place to find such posts right here!

    #BeforeBlackPresidents most amateur constitutional scholars had actually read the constitution.
    – The difference now is that they are the only ones that have read it. When it comes to members of the administration, or the DOJ, forget about it.

    Comment by Icy Texan (87dbd9) — 8/4/2011 @ 1:56 pm

  177. @peedoffamerican

    Here you go:

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/inarticulate

    Now read definition 1-3 or 2-1. And before you try to attempt the moronic face-saving counterpoint that it only applies to the spoken word, reread your First Amendment and settled case law since then.

    Here, I’ll make it even simpler for your and Stashiu3, assuming English your native Language is English and that you’ve both passed eighth grade:

    http://sentence.yourdictionary.com/inarticulate

    You’d be safer continuing to call me a libturd.

    Still enjoying this.

    Comment by Luke (0e1754) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:02 pm

  178. Whoops double “English”. I blame the link formatting. Oh well, never claimed I was a great proofreader.

    Comment by Luke (0e1754) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:03 pm

  179. “Here, I’ll make it even simpler for your and Stashiu3, assuming English your native Language is English and that you’ve both passed eighth grade:”

    Very articulate of you, leftard.

    LOL.

    What a maroon.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:06 pm

  180. Now they are saying some bloggers anti-muslim postings influenced the oslo terrorist…………..are they blaming Pamela Geller?

    He was an anti-religion enviro extremist.

    Btw how long before we are accused of white supremacism for opposing islam?

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:12 pm

  181. And before you try to attempt the moronic face-saving counterpoint that it only applies to the spoken word, reread your First Amendment and settled case law since then.
    Comment by Luke — 8/4/2011 @ 2:02 pm

    No need to use a flamethrower on that strawman.

    The point was his words were clear… you just don’t agree with them. That doesn’t make them “inarticulate” by any definition you linked, unless of course you now want to use that moronic, face-saving counterpoint.

    Are you sure you passed eighth grade?

    Comment by Stashiu3 (44da70) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:14 pm

  182. Luke,

    3. Unable to speak with clarity or eloquence:
    Pray tell, just what was unclear or not eloquent about, “Before black presidents, luke was still an insane lying little libturd.”?

    I noted that you are insane and lying because of your already debunked libturd talking points. I noted a descriptor ‘little’ that points to your small minded pointy head.(pun intended) And assigned a noun ‘libturd’, that denotes that you are a liberal that spews nothing but crap.

    All in all, it seems pretty damn articulate to any sane and normal person in the real world, not the fantasy world in which you reside.

    Hmmm, pretty cogent argument, mesa thinks.

    Damn, this is so unfair, fighting a war of wits with an unarmed luke.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:35 pm

  183. “Luke, 3. Unable to speak with clarity or eloquence:”

    Let me fix that for you…

    Luke is unable to speak with clarity or eloquence.

    There ya go.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:40 pm

  184. Whoops double “English”. I blame the link formatting. Oh well, never claimed I was a great proofreader.

    Comment by Luke

    Never was much of an understander, either. :-)

    More like a bystander.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:40 pm

  185. @IcyTexan

    Wow a substantive response. Let’s see

    1. “Getting away” with something usually means not getting punished for it. Not simply inflicting more harm than what can be done to you in turn. But I sympathize; it’s really tricky for you guys to turn that one into a negative.

    2. Yeah… Harvard law review editor, lectured law for 10 years, state Senate, US Senate… but that narrative interferes with right-wing talking points about bleeding heart liberals brainwashing government. Better to focus on his work in economically depressed urban areas as a negative.

    3. Lynn Westmoreland. US Representative. Guess which party. Did you think I was making it up? Limbaugh used the word too, although no one expects much more from him.

    4. Wow, some agreement. I don’t like the mandate either. Better just to cover everyone, like all the better systems do. But if you’re going to have an ugly patchwork of private insurers, it’s the only real way to get around the adverse selection problem. As to it’s constitutionality, Art. I Section VIII and the Supremacy Claus would suggest that Congress can do it. But of course I’m not Anthony Kennedy, so it might not be decided that way.

    5. Daniel Pipes, one of those PNAC creeps. Hawaii isn’t “American” enough for him.

    6. I thought it’d be common knowledge by now that the Republican governor Lingle didn’t have the authority to “produce” the original COLB. She saw it on file, as did factcheck.org representatives. The relevant authority who needs to see the original is the State Department, not yahoo conspiracy theorists on the Internet, where scans were posted anyway. The “long form” production should never have been required.

    7. No I’m speaking of the crisis, which Obama didn’t cause. And yes, people did make the absurd anachronistic argument. I’m not going to defend Obama on his economic performance since, but only because I think he didn’t do enough.

    8. The Bush tax cuts had sunset clauses because he cowardly wanted to punt the political downside to his successor and he couldn’t make the long-term budget numbers work without them. The looming disasterous 3% rate hike on $250k+ that was supposed to happen in January? Thank Bush for that. You can also thank Obama for signing the extension (even if I won’t). Heck, I’ll concede the whole point if you can find me a “small business owner” with $250k or more in personal income. See, it’s not politically advantageous to say you’re standing up for trust fund babies and hedge fund managers who don’t need the money.

    9. I’m sure all those autoworkers would much prefer to be on the street rather than have their employer be partially publicly owned. And the Government returning GM to profitability where the private sector couldn’t… horrible.

    10. OK, I’ll take your word for it since I’m new here. I don’t like echo chambers and even contentious debate can be fun. But some sites I used to enjoy decided to focus almost exclusively on Obama name-calling. I didn’t feel offended, just bored.

    11. OK, Obama has sucked on War Powers and the Fourth, although much much less than Bush for the latter. But the Constitution doesn’t prohibit temporary (or permanent) nationalization, tax increases, stimulus bills or anything else the Tea Party has screamed about. I covered the individual mandate up-post. So unless one of you (or them) can make a well-reasoned causal chain between the text and the violation (and yes I can do it with Bush), I’m not going to take the snake flags and tricorner hats seriously.

    Comment by Luke (0e1754) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:42 pm

  186. Luke’s next post:

    I hat u rite winggers , andd U cant even spel rite, cuz u inarttikulat!

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:43 pm

  187. Icy Texan: Here’s where he’s been called “uppity.”

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/09/04/georgia_gop_congressman_calls.html

    Comment by Jefferson (787040) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:44 pm

  188. Darnit, I had links for 3 and 5, but they didn’t seem to embed. Anyway if you google the names it’ll be the first hit.

    Comment by Luke (0e1754) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:44 pm

  189. Next time, luke, I will type real slowwwwwwww, and will try to only use words that you may understand. One or two syllable words at most.

    Anybody here have a 3 year old that I can communicate with so as to refresh my memory of baby talk?

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:45 pm

  190. I’m starting to like Luke. Rocky start, but he has potential. Certainly better than sparty.

    Not saying I agree with his opinions, but you can’t say they aren’t substantive.

    Luke, express yourself honestly and hold off the ad hom (yes, I know you’ve gotten a lot yourself… blame the trolls), you’ll be welcome here. You’ll get all the debate you can handle too. Fun for all.
    :)

    Comment by Stashiu3 (44da70) — 8/4/2011 @ 2:55 pm

  191. Luke writes: “The Bush tax cuts had sunset clauses because he cowardly wanted to punt the political downside to his successor and he couldn’t make the long-term budget numbers work without them.

    False. The sunset clause was an artifact of how budget rules required tax cuts to be scored. It was an artifact of the scoring method alone that caused the sunset to be included so that the rules’ “cost” number was not artificially high.

    ” The looming disasterous 3% rate hike on $250k+ that was supposed to happen in January? Thank Bush for that. You can also thank Obama for signing the extension (even if I won’t). Heck, I’ll concede the whole point if you can find me a “small business owner” with $250k or more in personal income. See, it’s not politically advantageous to say you’re standing up for trust fund babies and hedge fund managers who don’t need the money.

    But its is politically advantageous to be seen attacking those evil “rich” regardless of the economic consequences, hence Obama’s repeated rhetoric about corporate jet depreciation schedules even though the amount at issue is a tiny fraction of one percent of the Federal deficit. Fail.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:04 pm

  192. “Luke” sure is full of himself. Such haughty condescending arrogance, spewing boilerplate leftist pablum, straight from mediamatterz and thinkregress.

    Sense a pattern here, people. This type of mania from the leftists tracks with Barcky’s failure. The worse Teh One is doing, the more anger, vitriol, and general mendoucheous twatwafflery we see from them.

    Comment by JD (b98cae) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:05 pm

  193. @peedoffamerican

    It’s great that you like your “argument” and thing it’s “cogent”.

    Lincoln-Douglas, peedoffamerican version

    L:

    …causes the real friends of freedom to doubt our sincerity, and especially because it forces so many really good men amongst ourselves into an open war with the very fundamental principles of civil liberty—criticizing the Declaration of Independence, and insisting that there is no right principle of action but self-interest

    D:

    Insane Lying Libturd! Wow I just made a really cogent argument.

    Yes, I’m aware Licoln was a Republican. Liberal Republican. The hard right turn didn’t come until 1912.

    Comment by Luke (0e1754) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:06 pm

  194. Luke further writes: “OK, Obama has sucked on War Powers and the Fourth, although much much less than Bush for the latter. “

    False. Obama has changed no policy of the Bush administration regarding the Fourth Amendment and the Obama admin Dept of Justice has actually made some arguments in favor of allowing searches that even the Bush administration forbear making.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:06 pm

  195. “Uppity John McCain Calls Himself ‘President’”–Wonkette

    Looks like the word uppity is used by all sorts of folks.

    http://wonkette.com/401576/uppity-john-mccain-calls-himself-president

    “Not saying I agree with his opinions, but you can’t say they aren’t substantive.”

    Actually, I can.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:10 pm

  196. Stash, normally I don’t adhom attack myself, but I am just so tired of trying to reason with unreasonable libs that throw up the same old debunked DNC talking points time after time.

    If an original thought ever struck one of them, it would knock them out. Excepting a few of the more reasonable ones that comment here from time to time.

    Ihave seen a Luke that has posted here in the past, and a cluebat wouldn’t make an impression. If it is no the same one or I am mistaken I will apologize.

    It is exasperating that different libs come to conservative blogs and spew the same crap over and over, then demand that you debunk the same pathetic distortions that were debunked days, weeks, months, earlier on different threads.

    So sometimes I just go off on them to relieve the stress. While I don’t comment here very often, I do read the threads and comments. By the time I do get around to commenting, the excellent posters have generally covered what I would, so I remain silent.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:12 pm

  197. Actually, I can.
    Comment by Dave Surls — 8/4/2011 @ 3:10 pm

    Heh. Point taken.

    Now, compare to sparty and see if you agree Luke is more honest, even though just as wrong.

    Comment by Stashiu3 (44da70) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:14 pm

  198. Comment by peedoffamerican — 8/4/2011 @ 3:12 pm

    Near as I can tell, not the same as whoever you’re thinking of. New commenter.

    Comment by Stashiu3 (44da70) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:15 pm

  199. @SPQR. Uh, no. Clinton’s tax hike on the rich wasn’t scheduled to expire, and he passed it through the same reconciliation process in 1993.
    Link me the “artifact of the scoring process” that required income tax rates to revert back to what they were after 7 (2003) or 9 (2001) years?

    Holdouts like Voinovitch were refusing to budge above $350B in 2003, whereas Bush wanted $700B. The only way to keep the number down while keepin a larger cut rate was to introduce the sunset clause. And if you still don’t think Bush was a political coward, feel free to explain Medicare part D and steel tarriffs.*

    * I’m not saying Obama has political courage either, so don’t bother going there.

    Comment by Luke (0e1754) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:16 pm

  200. I wonder what Luke thinks about the increased deportation of illegals under Obama v. Bush?

    And why would 1912 mark the turn to the “hard right”?
    Let’s see now:
    You had a fairly typical Northern Republican, pro-business, President running for re-election (Taft), being challenged by a former President with strong Progressive creds who went Indie (TR), and a slimey, lying, intellectual racist Democrat (Wilson).
    And that makes the GOP turn to the “hard right”?
    Because of what?
    Their continued support of business that provides jobs for Americans, unlike the current President who goes out of his way to demonize business owners and risk-takers?
    BTW, Luke, hows your 401K doing today?
    If it’s anything like mine, It Sucks!

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:16 pm

  201. “Certainly better than sparty.”

    Now, there you might have a point.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:18 pm

  202. Uh if it helps… I’m a new commentator. Found this site through a link on the Forvm.

    I don’t care about ad-homs; it’s “your” site. I’ve never read a single DNC talking point and don’t know if they even catalogue them. If the topics are familiar, well, we all read the same news. Besides I don’t understand the value of copying and pasting other peoples’ opinions.

    Comment by Luke (0e1754) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:25 pm

  203. Never did agree with Bush’s compassionate conservatism or his drunk sailor spending habits.

    BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, even his drunk sailor spending ways cannot compare with Obarcky’s spending. He spends like a fleet of drunk sailors.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:29 pm

  204. Luke, amusing that you claim to refute me, but walk your position back to where I outlined.

    Well, that’s a lie. I’m not that easily amused these days.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:32 pm

  205. Hmm OK so Wonkette called McCain uppity too. Even if you ignore that it’s satire, well, McCain wasn’t president so my # still stands.

    Wow, a lot of people to respond to. I’ll try to keep up.

    Comment by Luke (0e1754) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:33 pm

  206. What the house should have done, was not raise the debt limit, and pass a budget with only the amount of revenue that is taken in by the treasury each month. No need for a balanced budget amendment agreement, no kicking the can down the road. Just a simple statement that says to bloated govt. to live within its means. The spending of this nations money that does not exist has to stop and stop now. No more credit card spending period.

    Eliminate every single unconstitutional spending program there is. No money for the arts, no money for public broadcasting, no money for voter registration shams, etc….. (If you’re too stupid to figure out how to register, you’re to stupid to vote)

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:38 pm

  207. And especially no more money for stupid research like the mating habits of the congolese fragger-upper or other such nonsense.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:41 pm

  208. Wow, a lot of people to respond to. I’ll try to keep up.
    Comment by Luke — 8/4/2011 @ 3:33 pm

    You believe what you say and try to back it up. Most of the progressives who come here just try to provoke. You could be very popular if you argue honestly. We have others who come here and are greatly respected, if rarely agreed with.

    I don’t know why for sure, but I really do see a potential friend to the site here. Can we try to make him feel welcome as he gets his bearings? There are bound to be a few bobbles as he gets to know people, so correcting an argument would be better than assuming bad faith. Just my opinion of course.

    Comment by Stashiu3 (44da70) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:43 pm

  209. And especially no more money for stupid research like the mating habits of the or other such nonsense.
    Comment by peedoffamerican — 8/4/2011 @ 3:41 pm

    But my brother is a congolese fragger-upper and really needs a date. Pick something else. ;)

    Comment by Stashiu3 (44da70) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:45 pm

  210. @SPQR I didn’t walk back a thing.
    My original claim was that Bush cowardly punted tax raises to his successor, which he did. You made the claim about the scoring process. He could have gotten a bigger rate cut with the same budget effect if it had to be renewed during his second term, but he made sure the cuts would expire once he was out of office.

    You claim he never intended to do that? His advisors claim differently:

    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/12/03/133173/bushies-celebrates-taxes/

    “We knew that, politically, once you get it into law, it becomes almost impossible to remove it,” says Dan Bartlett, Bush’s former communications director. “That’s not a bad legacy. The fact that we were able to lay the trap does feel pretty good, to tell you the truth.” [...]

    “[Democrats] are definitely on the defensive,” Card says. “The fact that the 10-year clock ran out now had a big impact on the election.”

    Nope, no political cowardice there. But sure keep calling me a liar if it makes you feel better.

    Comment by Luke (0e1754) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:46 pm

  211. Yeah, it’s totally nothing if Wonkette calls McCain “uppity”, but it’s the crime of the century if someone calls the Obamas “uppity”.

    Same old, same old.

    Lefties and their double standards.

    ‘Speaking in Milwaukee, Wisconsin today, would-be First Lady Michelle Obama said, “for the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback.”‘

    And, that’s probably the most uppity thing I’ve ever heard in my life. Pretty close anyway.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:50 pm

  212. “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

    Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.”

    Quite prescient isn’t it?

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:54 pm

  213. Wow.

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/4/2011 @ 3:58 pm

  214. And yes I know that ours is a Republic, but since the 17th Amendment that established the direct elections of senators, it now more closely resembles a democracy.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 4:00 pm

  215. @peedoffamerican

    I’m all for cutting spending within the budget rather then with default threats. Do you actually think you can get there with art funding and (now defunct) ACORN? As I recall PBS has almost no public funding either. Those who claim corporate jet writeoffs are just a symbolic pittance can’t claim that gutting Planned Parenthood and foreign aid will save us.

    The Federal Budget is dominated by SS, Medicare, Medicaid and Defense. SS has dedicated funding huge political support and the side benefit of keeping senoirs out of trash cans. Medicare DOES have huge structural inefficiencies like perverse fee-for-service reimbursements, hugely expensive end-of-life care and anticompetitive drug pricing. There were substantive attempts to address those in the Affordable Care Act, but somehow we got bogged down in a Death Panel shouting match. I’m not sure what to do about Medicaid; someone has to pay for poor sick people and they’re not cost-effective for the private sector to cover.

    Defense has a number of exorbitant boondoggles that happen to correspond with influential congresspeople’s pet projects.

    As for the “everything that isn’t constitutional”, I’m sorry to tell you but the Tenth won’t help you much, if at all. The Commerce Clause, the Supremacy Clause (all worth looking up if you’re not familiar with them), the General Welfare part of Art. I section 8 and the 14th Amendment lets the Fed do pretty much everything that all but the most libertarian justices will uphold.

    Comment by Luke (0e1754) — 8/4/2011 @ 4:01 pm

  216. @stashiu3

    Thanks for the encouragement. I’m all for a truce on ad-homs.

    Comment by Luke (0e1754) — 8/4/2011 @ 4:10 pm

  217. “#BeforeBlackPresidents Bin Laden had gotten away with 9/11.”

    Spare me.

    We smacked down Bin Laden and thousands of other terrorists and crushed two state sponsors of terrorism thanks to George W. Bush, while traitors (yeah, that’s right, I said traitors), like Barack Obama, did everything they could to HELP the terrorists by undercutting Bush at every opportunity, simply in order to further their own political ambitions.

    Obama and his crew were, and are, a net liability in the War on Terror.

    The only reason they haven’t completely screwed everything up is because the minute they got into power they immediately adopted all the policies implemented by the Bush adminisatration that they’d so dishonestly criticized and tried to undermine when they weren’t in power.

    Obama is scum, and so are his idiot supporters.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 4:12 pm

  218. Yet another drone from Sector 7G, no style this one,
    the death panels are the bill, that’s the way they transfer 500 billion, the IMAC is the enforcement
    mechanism

    Comment by ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/4/2011 @ 4:21 pm

  219. “#BeforeBlackPresidents doing socially conscious work like community organizing was considered commendable and seldom mocked.”

    More blithering nonsense. First of all it depends on what exactly what it is your organizing the community to do, and who’s doing the organizing.

    Not too many people are going to commend the KKK for the sort of community organizing they did.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 4:23 pm

  220. Welfare does not mean what you think it means. Used in the context that is in the USCON means well-being, not a government give away program. What the hell does the citizenship amendment have to do with spending?

    And Section 8 deals with the, now read real carefully, I am typing real slow,ENUMERATED POWERS, that means expressly written and numbered things that Congress can constitutionally do. Furthermore, section 9 goes on and LIMITS what Congress can do. They are both in fact LIMITING what Congress can do. So, NO, they cannot just do about whatever they want to do.

    4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

    All that means is that we have to pay our bills, not spend more money.

    And as for, “Do you actually think you can get there with art funding and (now defunct) ACORN? As I recall PBS has almost no public funding either. “

    You add a few million here, a couple of billion there, and pretty damn soon we are talking some serious money. Damn libs keep saying that these things don’t cost much so why cut them? Here’s the answer, again I will type slowly, BECAUSE they add up to a large sum of money that the federal govt was never supposed to spend on crap like this PERIOD.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 4:35 pm

  221. As I recall PBS has almost no public funding either. Those who claim corporate jet writeoffs are just a symbolic pittance can’t claim that gutting Planned Parenthood and foreign aid will save us.

    The Corporation for Public Broadcasting gets over $400 million last time I checked. I guess we have to get to 1 Obama Unit to impress you (last set by the National Bureau of Standards at 0.8 Trillion ).

    Corporate jet depreciation schedules are not symbolic in that the White House was supporting them only seven months arguing that the general aviation industry needed the help. If you think that Obama’s Teleprompter’s reversal on that issue is anything other than symbolic itself, feel free to make the argument.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 8/4/2011 @ 4:35 pm

  222. Can anyone here guess why the Founding Fathers set up for the direct election of congressmen, the election of senators by the state legislatures fo the various states, and the election of the President by the Electoral College? And also why the 17th Amendment is such a travesty?

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 4:45 pm

  223. Oops fo should be “of”.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 4:45 pm

  224. “#BeforeBlackPresidents a President had to actually raise taxes before people started whining about their taxes being raised.”

    More silly nonsense.

    Congress raises taxes, not presidents. And, since the Dem controlled Congress has vastly increased federal spending since 2006, then taxes MUST go up.

    Unless, they’re planning on one hellacious bake sale.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:00 pm

  225. @POA One of those ENUMERATED powers is to “provide for the general welfare”. It’s not hard to argue that the ACA as a whole and even the individual mandate does just that.

    Feel free to look up the Federal discretionary pie charts and obliterate every single program you don’t like or don’t think the Fed should be dealing with. You won’t come close to balancing the budget that way. I know that’s not an argument against cutting them anyway, but you still have to look at entitlements and defense if you don’t want to raise the debt ceiling again. You’ll have to pick one or more of these options:

    1. Piss off politically powerful seniors.
    2. Cut pet defense projects that members routinely conspire to protect.
    3. Raise tax rates.
    4. Keep piling up debt.

    You can smooth the edges with medicare efficiencies and tax loopholes, but actually solving the problem takes political courage.

    Of course your political opponents such as myself would go after farm subsidies, faith-based initiatives and mortgage deductions instead of voter registration programs, and since people want to defend these programs more than than deficit hawks want to kill them, we’d both lose and the cuts would go nowhere.

    @SPQR The corporate jet issue is a fight over a tax deduction, nothing more. Congress can tax almost anything (religious entities butt up agains the 1st amendment) at any rate it wants. I’m not sure what your point is. If it’s that Obama flip-flopped on a politically-charged way to save a little dough, fine. Attacking arts funding and attacking private jet deductions are both political arguments. If it were up to me I’d cut a whole host of deductions, especially those that incentivize offshoring.

    PBS is not the same as the CPB although honestly I can’t say what the main difference is and I’d rather just concede the $420M figure. I just have a hard time getting worked up about paying 2$ for public broadcasting last year.

    Comment by Luke (df560c) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:06 pm

  226. Comment by Luke — 8/4/2011 @ 4:01 pm

    Of the four major components of the budget that you cite, only one is prescribed by the Constitution as an obligation of the Federal Government; the others are but Progressive “feel good” programs that allow their supporters to congratulate themselves on how compassionate they are.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:08 pm

  227. The thing is it’s not unique to Obama, we could expect level of mendacity from Edwards, Gore, or Kerry,

    Comment by ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:12 pm

  228. #BeforeBlackPresidents doing socially conscious work like community organizing was considered commendable and seldom mocked.

    Luke, how old are you? Name the year in which “community organizer” was a respectable job. #BeforeBlackPresidents nobody had ever heard of “community organizers”; we called them “ward heelers”, and regarded them with just as much derision and contempt as we do today.

    Comment by Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:17 pm

  229. Luke, the corporate jet issue is not a fight over a tax deduction per se. Its about the depreciation schedule of the asset. It was shortened as an attempt to make purchase of a corporate jet more advantageous and subsidize the domestic general aviation industry. The White House supported it seven months ago – now they abandon that support for a cheap talking point. Which shows not that Obama is craven, we knew that, it shows just how cheaply craven he is.

    If you can’t get worked up about paying for CPB, then donate to it. Its how it gets 85% of its funds, and donations would probably increase if it was cut off – as it should be.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:18 pm

  230. Milhouse, ward heelers and rabble rousers.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:19 pm

  231. Were any of them false or even hyperbolic?

    Yes, actually, all of them were.

    Comment by Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:20 pm

  232. @Dave Surls

    C’mon, you’re being obtuse. Congress passes the budget and the President signs it. The President is the single actor with the most input. Effectively, he President has taken the lead on tax policy at least since JFK. Was it “Congress” that got nailed for violating a No New Taxes pledge? Were 2001 and 2003 called Bush Tax Cuts or Congressional Tax Cuts?

    The biggest deficit spender in relative terms was Ronald Reagan. In absolute terms it’s George W. Bush, and if the “do nothing” projection holds, Obama won’t beat him despite inheriting the biggest crap sandwich since FDR. Especially if you consider that the 2009 budget was passed under Bush. So unless you’re arguing that that Reagan and Bush forced the biggest inevitable tax increases you’ve got no room to attack Obama on taxes at all.

    Comment by Luke (df560c) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:23 pm

  233. That is just tiresome leftist bibble babble. How many here think that this twatwaffle would actually do anything other than the predictable demagoguery were entitlements to ever be seriously addressed? Or, how does it manage to, on one hand, note that entitlement spending is the largest driver of budget issues, while also extolling e virtues of BarckyCare, which will make the others look like pikers by the time it is done destroying the economy.

    Comment by JD (10025c) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:23 pm

  234. #BeforeBlackPresidents Bin Laden had gotten away with 9/11.

    Obama “got” bin Laden in the same sense that Nixon put a man on the moon. He happened to be president when it happened, but nearly all of the work was done by his predecessors. And in Obama’s case he dithered for 16 hours before giving the order, if indeed Panetta didn’t step in and give it for him.

    Comment by Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:25 pm

  235. The biggest deficit spender in relative terms was Ronald Reagan. In absolute terms it’s George W. Bush, and if the “do nothing” projection holds, Obama won’t beat him despite inheriting the biggest crap sandwich since FDR. Especially if you consider that the 2009 budget was passed under Bush. So unless you’re arguing that that Reagan and Bush forced the biggest inevitable tax increases you’ve got no room to attack Obama on taxes at all.

    Let’s play count the lies. I found 5 without even trying. This is just a feces-flinging simian.

    Comment by JD (10025c) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:26 pm

  236. @Milhouse

    Try to refute them then. My personal favorite criticism of conservative thinking is not that it’s heartless or stupid, but lazy. A few posters here have given me occasion to rethink that.

    You are not one of them.

    Comment by Luke (df560c) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:27 pm

  237. #BeforeBlackPresidents candidates were seldom blamed for crises occuring before they took office.

    When was this ever true? Just going back to the last president, look at what he inherited! A recession and an al Qaeda situation that had been utterly botched. (We’ll never know what was on the documents Sandy Burglar stole, but we know enough without them.)

    Comment by Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:29 pm

  238. Before Petulant
    Yohans like Luke were referred
    to as Simple Knobs

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:32 pm

  239. Luke, projections are that Obama will have matched Bush’s total additions to the national debt in half the time. The only thing that might save Obama from exceeding Bush’s deficit spending will be losing office in Nov 2012.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:32 pm

  240. “The biggest deficit spender in relative terms was Ronald Reagan. In absolute terms it’s George W. Bush…”

    absolute horsesh*t.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:34 pm

  241. BBP…

    There was still a roof to tear off the motherfather

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:35 pm

  242. Guys, I put the Bin Laden one first for effect because it’s short and to the point. But doesn’t even address the “motivations for dissing the president” theme of the whole post. You needn’t feel obligated to tear it down. It’ll only remind you that a Democrat succeeded where a Republican failed :)

    Comment by Luke (df560c) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:35 pm

  243. BPP…

    the presidential limo didn’t have a diamond in da back, sunroof top and the president was never diggin’ da scene wit a gangsta lean… woo hooooooo!

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:38 pm

  244. “…One of those ENUMERATED powers is to ‘provide for the general welfare’…”

    Would you like to tell us where in the Constitution those words reside, Luke?

    You see, Art-I, Sec-8 does say “…To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States…”
    But, that is not welfare as known by your average Food Stamps recipient. It means to ensure that the country does not collapse in a general manner, just as the “common Defence” is a collective duty to protect all Americans, but not any specific American.
    Under your interpretation, it would be the Duty of Congress to provide welfare to every individual, since the government is charged to defend every individual from foreign aggression.

    You’ll notice in the Constitution, that the word “general” is not capitalized, but “Welfare” is. This gives them a different emphasis: That “the general Welfare” is an overall condition (a milieu, so to speak) that is set by the policies of government that allows individuals to succeed, not any guarnatee of that success – a re-inforcement of Mr. Jefferson’s words affirming “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness” (but not the attainment of happiness); nor will the government prevent you from putting your life in danger in your pursuit of happiness; and (of course) if you transgress the bounds of society, you will sacrifice your liberty by incarceration for your crimes, or your life for the taking of another’s.

    You see, this is the Great Argument that has been engaged since the passage of, and extension of the Bill of Rights to the States by, the Fourteenth Amendment.
    It is a debate that will continue until we finally realize that we cannot be all things to all people, for we have not the money (see: M. Thatcher).

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:39 pm

  245. @ColonelHaiku

    Really? Wanna play “which president presided over a tripling of the debt” bingo? And no you can’t blame the Democratic Congress. Reagan’s own budget request was within 1% of the eventual outlays.

    These things aren’t exactly debatable. You could I suppose argue that starting trillion-dollar wars and tax cuts for millonaires are better for the economy than investing in broadband and stimulus spending, but there’s no denying the balance sheets.

    Or you could just call horseshit without looking it up, of course.

    Comment by Luke (df560c) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:39 pm

  246. Well Peter Lance, suggests in his book on Ali Mohammed, that figure, was the source for the original PDB about the plot that would become
    September 11th, such information may have been
    in the papers Berger purloined, which raises a question, why did the second PDB have less information in it. The Gorelick wall between the FBI and the CIA, certainly proscribed the amount
    of interaction between agencies.

    Comment by ian cormac (81c5c2) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:39 pm

  247. “The biggest deficit spender in relative terms was Ronald Reagan.”

    Luke – Are you going to try to tag Reagan with Tip O’Neill’s budgets? Sorry, you cannot talk out of both sides of your mouth here.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:40 pm

  248. They’ll always have bin Laden…

    Critical thinkers know that Seal Team 6 had a little more to do with it.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:40 pm

  249. Luke, so you think the SEAL team was all registered Democrats?

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:40 pm

  250. Of course your political opponents such as myself would go after farm subsidies, faith-based initiatives and mortgage deductions instead of voter registration programs, and since people want to defend these programs more than than deficit hawks want to kill them, we’d both lose and the cuts would go nowhere.

    Nope cut em all. There are also plenty of congressman supported crap in the defense budget that the military doesn’t even want-cut it. Farm subsidies-cut em, especially those that pay farmers NOT to grow stuff. If I were President, I would damn well VETO any spending bill that had any deficit spending in it even if it was one dollar, and then tell them to get off their asses and bring me a bill that was serious.

    @POA One of those ENUMERATED powers is to “provide for the general welfare”. It’s not hard to argue that the ACA as a whole and even the individual mandate does just that.

    Again, you do not understand the meaning of how welfare is used in the USCON. IT IS NOT USED TO DENOTE A LAME WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION SCAM. It is used as to protect the well-being of the nation as a whole not to an individual. And yes it is hard to argue that obamacare is constitutional. If the Founders had meant for the federal govt. to provide for health care they would have, but they didn’t, they left it to the individual to best see to his personal needs.

    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

    Notice that it says general welfare of the United States, not individual citizens.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:40 pm

  251. Take a victory lap for President Barack Sad Sack, luke…

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:41 pm

  252. Barry Obama
    is the Czar of Food Stamps and
    Unemployment Checks

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:44 pm

  253. I would remind our new friend of an old axiom in DC:

    The President proposes;
    The Congress disposes!

    The President cannot lead the Congress anywhere it does not want to go.
    There is a reason why “The People’s House” has the power to appropriate funds, and to levy taxes, with the advice and consent of the Senate, and approval of the Executive.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:44 pm

  254. So you found someone who called Obama “uppity”. Now show that no previous president has been called that or worse. That should be difficult to impossible.

    Comment by Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:44 pm

  255. C’mon guys, can’t anyone answer my #222?

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:48 pm

  256. @milhouse — How about “tar baby?” I’m pretty sure no other president has been called that.

    Comment by Jefferson (787040) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:49 pm

  257. @AD-RtR/OS!

    I’d have responded to you sooner but you have an inconvenient name to type.

    I’m aware that “Welfare” in the Const. doesn’t mean a monthly allowance. It means that Congress can pass laws for the well-being of its citizens as a whole. I would think that a reasonable interpretation of “welfare” or “well-being” would include a citizens’ health.

    The Thatcherite “all things to all people” argument is a canard. Not being able to provide everything is no excuse for providing nothing. I don’t know what test a judge would apply to determine whether a Congressional law provides a net increase in the General Welfare (compared to the tax burden and possible loss of individual liberty), but I think it’s pretty clear we’re not at the Collective farm stage yet.

    Anyhoo, are you arguing that any current law or spending item is unconstitutional? Or are you just trying to rebut my Art. I section 8 interpretation?

    Comment by Luke (df560c) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:51 pm

  258. Never did agree with Bush’s compassionate conservatism or his drunk sailor spending habits.

    Indeed, the TEA Party Movement began as the “porkbusters” movement during the second GWB administration. What do you think caused the GOP wipeout in 2006? Disgusted conservatives and libertarians staying home, that’s what.

    Comment by Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:51 pm

  259. The Senate was to represent the Sovereign States, while the House represented the electorate (which was generally people of property), and the EC was instituted so that a President had to have wide, general support, and was not the selection of just a few large-population states (such as VA and NY).

    Is that what you were looking for poa?

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:54 pm

  260. “I’d have responded to you sooner but you have an inconvenient name to type.”

    Just one finger after the other, young Luke…

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:57 pm

  261. Oh, I believe that great sections of the expenditures of the Federal Government are un-, or extra-, constitutional.

    And, the phrase is “general Welfare” – it says so in my handy pocket Constitution/Declaration, courtesy of Cong. Dana Rohrebacher.

    And, you can address me as “AD”, most here do.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:58 pm

  262. Luke… Luke I am your
    father, Luke… come back from the
    Dark m00nbat side, Luke

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/4/2011 @ 5:59 pm

  263. @daleyrocks

    No tagging required. As I explained upthread, the request matched the outlay (i.e. if Reagan had a completely pliant congress just as much would have been spent). Besides, he could have vetoed it but didn’t.

    Comment by Luke (df560c) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:01 pm

  264. “…a canard…”

    I thought that is what you called those little wings athwart the cockpit on Burt Rutan designs.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:01 pm

  265. Comment by ColonelHaiku — 8/4/2011 @ 5:57 pm

    Hey, watch it with that one-finger stuff!

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:03 pm

  266. Here I’ll do it in a concise manner.

    The election of lower house congressman was to give the people a direct voice in the government.

    The election of US Senators was to check the lower house and to protect the States rights and interests because the Founding Fathers didn’t trust the average citizen to be well enough educated to think of anything but self interest.

    The election of the President by the Electoral College was to prevent the more populous states from completely dominating the lesser populated states in the election. Note, that is why there are only two Senators per state.

    The travesty of the 17th Amendment is that the States now have no representation in the Federal Govt., and these so called senators are just a type of supercongressman that represents his citizens and not the interest of the State.

    To be briefer, it was set up this way to protect the Several Sovereign States that form this union. And in order to limit the power of the Federal Govt. Note we are not One single country, instead we are a Union of 50 Independent Sovereign States, or Countries as the nomenclature of that era was used.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:03 pm

  267. National socialism is racist so ergo it must be far-right……………right retarded leftys?

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:04 pm

  268. Color me shocked that “Luke” is a boilerplate think regress leftist.

    Comment by JD (10025c) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:05 pm

  269. #259 pretty close AD. Didn’t see it till I posted mine.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:07 pm

  270. #212 Origins of that (pair of) quotations

    Comment by Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:11 pm

  271. Luke and leftys think opposition to islamic terrorism is white supremacy………until their heads are coming off.

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:13 pm

  272. “I’m aware that “Welfare” in the Const. doesn’t mean a monthly allowance. It means that Congress can pass laws for the well-being of its citizens as a whole. I would think that a reasonable interpretation of “welfare” or “well-being” would include a citizens’ health.

    False Luke. You are misrepresenting the clause. It authorizes Congress to tax and to spend for the purpose of the general welfare. Not to legislate in general. If your interpretation was correct, the Federal government would not be a government of enumerated powers.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:19 pm

  273. Milhouse, and poa:
    There is a third quote that needs to be added to that group.

    “Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded- here and there, now and then- are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.This is known as “bad luck.”.”
    - Robert Heinlein

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:19 pm

  274. Comment by SPQR — 8/4/2011 @ 6:19 pm

    Which is exactly what we will find out when the case of the “Individual Mandate” arrives for consideration of the Nine Robed Wonders.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:21 pm

  275. AD-RtR/OS, yes and no. The individual mandate’s constitutionality will rely upon the scope of the interstate commerce clause instead, so long as the Supreme Court gives weight to Congress’ explicit statement that the mandate’s penalty was not a tax.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:23 pm

  276. Well, in either case, a reining in of the tendency of Congress to accrue power unto itself will be a welcome change, or addition if you look at recent commerce cases such as Prinz and Lopez.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:26 pm

  277. What is the difference between these two scenarios?

    1. A person walks up to you, points a gun at your head, then demands that you give him all of your money so he can redistribute it to the poor and more deserving.

    2. A government taxes you so that it can take your hard earned money and redistribute it to the poor and more deserving.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:27 pm

  278. peedoffamerican, I prefer the first because I can shoot the robber.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:28 pm

  279. LOL SPQR

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:29 pm

  280. RE:

    9. I’m sure all those autoworkers would much prefer to be on the street rather than have their employer be partially publicly owned. And the Government returning GM to profitability where the private sector couldn’t… horrible.

    This one really gripes my nads, always has.

    It’s freaking *easy* for any company with any cashflow at all, selling any product at a *slight* profit, to become “profitable” if they can WALK AWAY FROM all their prior debts, just have them wiped clean or renegotiated for pennies on the dollar at most.

    Hell, these days Ford is profitable and they did it *without* opting out of their debt with reorg, *without* having you and me (oh, the Gubbmint doesn’t own anything…we taxpayers paid for it) owning a portion of their stock, and bailing out the unions in favor of bondholders. Sure, they got a rather large DoE incentive for ‘green’ initiatives with which they’ve helped retool themselves. And their hybrids, unlike the Volt, are actually selling.

    Makes me sick. Tell me another corporate entity, buying up GM’s production capacity, IP, workforce, etc. with the same cancellation of debt couldn’t be equally profitable. Go for it. Oh, by the way…how much are those shares the Treasury can’t unload worth relative to what we “paid” for them?

    C’mon…the company’s profitable now so surely it turned out to be a good investment…right?

    Comment by rtrski (0e7dc7) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:33 pm

  281. Not in New Yuck though SPQR. There they charge you with murder and unlawful possession of a firearm. then the family sues you for 90 trillion dollars and wins.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:33 pm

  282. peedoffamerican, I live in a free state.

    Comment by SPQR (26be8b) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:37 pm

  283. p.s.

    #BeforeBlackPresidents, economic policy wasn’t judged by farcical standards like jobs “created or saved
    #BeforeBlackPresidents, Bagdad Bob was the absolute epitome, the poster-child if you will of the vacillating, obtuse, patently untruthful, divorced-from-reality government spokesperson mouthpiece, not the U.S. White House Press Secretary.

    Comment by rtrski (0e7dc7) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:39 pm

  284. Here is a speech by Col. David Crockett
    US Representative from Tennessee that all need to read and understand.
    Not Yours To Give

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:40 pm

  285. The Commerce Clause, the Supremacy Clause (all worth looking up if you’re not familiar with them), the General Welfare part of Art. I section 8 and the 14th Amendment lets the Fed do pretty much everything

    I assure you we’re all familiar with these, probably more familiar than you are. We know, for instance, that any interpretation of these that negates the enumerated powers doctrine, and allows Congress to do whatever it likes, is by definition wrong.

    Comment by Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:41 pm

  286. @POA One of those ENUMERATED powers is to “provide for the general welfare”.

    No, it isn’t. I told you we were more familiar with this material than you were, and this proves it. Read it carefully and you will see that this is not one of the enumerated powers. (Hint: where does the sentence begin?)

    Besides which, if the first enumerated power was to do anything that benefited the public, then what do you suggest is the purpose of the rest of the list.

    Comment by Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/4/2011 @ 6:51 pm

  287. Good catch there Milhouse, I completely overlooked that aspect as I was deconstructing his other not so pointy points.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 7:00 pm

  288. Congress can tax almost anything (religious entities butt up agains the 1st amendment) at any rate it wants.

    If you’re just talking constitutionally, then yes, I suppose this is true. But the constitution is just the beginning of the discussion, not the end. Congress simply lacks the power to do anything that the constitution doesn’t grant it the power to do. But if it uses its constitutional powers to do that which no government anywhere has the right to do, then what it has done is equally illegitimate. And no government has the right to levy whatever taxes it likes. We are not slaves of the government, and it does not own us or our possessions; there are services it provides us for which it must charge us because there is no other way to finance them, and to the extent that we genuinely benefit from them this is fair enough. But once it goes beyond that, and takes anything from us for someone else’s benefit then it is a thief, no better than any highwayman. And we know what to do with highwaymen; that’s what the second amendment is about.

    Comment by Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/4/2011 @ 7:05 pm

  289. To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

    Not to fund stupid studies like $150K to see how long it takes to fry an egg on a sidewalk in July. Not to fund any science or art, but allow it to prosper by securing the rights of its creators.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 7:09 pm

  290. The best thing a government can do is to get the hell out of the way and let the citizens do what they can do best.

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 8/4/2011 @ 7:13 pm

  291. Especially if you consider that the 2009 budget was passed under Bush.

    But greatly supplemented under Obama.

    Comment by Milhouse (ea66e3) — 8/4/2011 @ 7:26 pm

  292. @milhouse — How about “tar baby?” I’m pretty sure no other president has been called that.

    Really? A tar baby is someone you don’t want to get entangled with; I’m pretty sure a president or two along the way has been called that.

    Comment by Milhouse (9a4c23) — 8/4/2011 @ 7:42 pm

  293. It means that Congress can pass laws for the well-being of its citizens as a whole.

    Well, no, actually, it doesn’t.

    Comment by Milhouse (9a4c23) — 8/4/2011 @ 7:45 pm

  294. Anyhoo, are you arguing that any current law or spending item is unconstitutional?

    Yes, the vast majority of it, probably.

    Comment by Milhouse (9a4c23) — 8/4/2011 @ 7:47 pm

  295. You are misrepresenting the clause. It authorizes Congress to tax and to spend for the purpose of the general welfare.

    Actually, just to tax. It says nothing about spending.

    Comment by Milhouse (9a4c23) — 8/4/2011 @ 7:54 pm

  296. I’ve never read a single DNC talking point and don’t know if they even catalogue them.
    Comment by Luke — 8/4/2011 @ 3:25 pm

    – That’s simple. Start numbering each one of your sentences.

    Comment by Icy Texan (87dbd9) — 8/4/2011 @ 8:17 pm

  297. “C’mon, you’re being obtuse. Congress passes the budget and the President signs it. The President is the single actor with the most input.”

    No, I’m not being obtuse. Presidents can’t raise even one cent in taxes. Only Congress has the power to do that. Their job. Their responsibility.

    Over the last four years federal government spending, under a Dem controlled Congress, has gone through the roof, and that means taxes have gone through the roof.

    Federal spending as a percentage of GDP was 19.8 in 2006 (that’s lower than it was in 1995 when the GOP FINALLY got control of Congress, btw), and it rose to 24.9% in 2009, and 23.8% in 2010. God only knows what it’s going to be in FY 2011.

    You can’t have federal spending go up, and taxes NOT go up. It’s impossible.

    And, the reason spending/taxes went up is because the Dems control Congress, and they’re completely, utterly out of control.

    Sorry, if the truth hurts…but, there it is.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 8:33 pm

  298. “As I explained upthread, the request matched the outlay”

    Luke @6:01 – I must have missed it upthread where you explained that Reagan’s budgets were passed unscathed by Congress. Can you direct me to that comment, please?

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/4/2011 @ 8:41 pm

  299. “The biggest deficit spender in relative terms was Ronald Reagan.”

    Complete nonsense.

    Presidents don’t borrow. Congress borrows. And, even if Presidents did borrow, deficits under Reagan weren’t even in the same league as the massive debt ran up under FDR (with a Dem Congress…needless to say). Not even close.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 8:44 pm

  300. What was the debt level, relative to GDP, under Reagan?

    Oh, it was like a third, right? Now it’s 100%?

    How many nations have survived 100% debt : GDP levels?

    Reagan did compromise on spending, though I’m not seeing how he had any choice at all. Those were pivotal times, when the Soviets were truly defeated (though it took a couple of years to completely materialize).

    What is Obama accomplishing with our debt today? He said he’s investing. In what? Healthcare is going to stop advancing without profits. Folks can’t get jobs. We can’t even make lightbulbs anymore.

    Comment by Dustin (b7410e) — 8/4/2011 @ 8:47 pm

  301. “Especially if you consider that the 2009 budget was passed under Bush.”

    Actually I believe Congress shirked its duty long enough so that the fiscal 2009 budget would be passed under Obama rather than Bush.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/4/2011 @ 8:51 pm

  302. daleyrocks is right. Obama signed the FY2009 budget in March.

    Blaming Bush for something Obama signed into law is par for the course these days.

    Comment by Dustin (b7410e) — 8/4/2011 @ 8:54 pm

  303. For that matter, the debt just run up in the last four years by the Dem controlled House (2006-2010) is more than the debt ran up under EIGHT years when Reagan was president (also with the Dems in conmtrol of the House). About 50% more to be exact.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 8:55 pm

  304. Make that 2007-2010.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 8:57 pm

  305. “What was the debt level, relative to GDP, under Reagan?”

    FY 1980: 32.6%

    FY 1988: 51.0%

    We just went up over 100% thanks to this fabulous debt deal we just made, btw.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 8:59 pm

  306. “How many nations have survived 100% debt : GDP levels?”

    Only a few nations are at the level now.

    Japan leads the pack at 225%. We just moved into the top ten.

    And, our debt level doesn’t even include all the money our semi-soverign states have “borrowed” (in quotes because it’s really stealing, not borrowing).

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 9:06 pm

  307. the debt just run up in the last four years by the Dem controlled House (2006-2010) is more than the debt ran up under EIGHT years when Reagan was president (also with the Dems in conmtrol of the House). About 50% more to be exact.

    Comment by Dave Surls — 8/4/2011 @ 8:55 pm

    Right.

    It gets old seeing democrats switch who to blame for things.

    Now we blame the House? Why?

    But we blame Bush for the 2007-2011 deficits? Why?

    Everything went to hell the day Pelosi got the gavel. I know some of that, CRA namely, was lurking as a problem throughout much of Bush’s term, but the deficit exploded when democrats took power. As with Reagan, they insisted on spending more than the president wanted to spend, and then they blame the president for what he opposed.

    But the blame game is stupid. If we all agree that deficits are the problem, then let’s pass a balanced budget amendment and replace this failed president.

    Comment by Dustin (b7410e) — 8/4/2011 @ 9:10 pm

  308. Debating Roseanne Barr is like debating the undead.

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/4/2011 @ 9:13 pm

  309. “He said he’s investing. In what?”

    Communism.

    Well, national socialism, really, since they aren’t going to have government agencies run everything. Their totalitarian socialist state is going to be a partnership between the big Dem-friendly corporations (GE, GM, et al) and the feds.

    And, we’re getting there in a big hurry.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 9:16 pm

  310. “But the blame game is stupid.”

    It’s not if you’re trying to figure out who to vote for come 2012.

    Comment by Dave Surls (28f866) — 8/4/2011 @ 9:18 pm

  311. Especially if you consider that the 2009 budget was passed under Bush.

    No, only part of the budget was passed/appropriated under Bush, the non-discretionary, and defense, parts.
    Discretionary, non-defense spending was appropriated under a continueing resolution at Bush-08 levels, and then was passed and goosed following the inaugaration of BHO, at a much higher level than what the “43″ administration submitted for budget purposes.
    Then, on top of that, they passed the $800B Stimulus Bill.
    All in all, Pelosi/Reid/Obama spent 1.887Trillion Dollars over budget in FY-2009, because that is how much was added to the National Debt that year.

    Why do these trolls think that they can slide this crap past people who know how to think?
    It must be because they run up against so few people who know how, and where, to access facts.

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 9:33 pm

  312. I bet Bush caused the turkey recall.

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/4/2011 @ 9:34 pm

  313. The most famous words on Capitol Hill when Reagan was President:
    His budget is DOA!

    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! (cbda31) — 8/4/2011 @ 9:37 pm

  314. It’s not if you’re trying to figure out who to vote for come 2012.

    Comment by Dave Surls

    You have a point. We can’t just vote for the guy who promises to cut the deficit in half. We have to vote for the guy who promises to cut the deficit and isn’t lying to us.

    But I do find it silly to hear democrats complain of Reagan or Bush 43′s deficits as though that’s some kind of permission for deficits to get much worse. If it was bad then it’s obviously really bad now. And each dollar of debt is worse as the total climbs. A $100 stupid credit card purchase is not a big deal when you pay the card off every month, and it’s a really big deal when you’re nearly maxed out and struggling to make the min payments.

    My point is that this criticism is so unserious. They do not actually have a problem with deficits during Bush’s era. Obama certainly was lying to complain about them when refusing to raise the debt ceiling several times.

    They simply have a different vision. It’s completely incompatible with ours, and they condescend to bash Bush under our rules because they think that’s good sophistry. They will never move on from the gotcha step to the conclusion that Obama’s deficits are ruinous because they didn’t care in the first place.

    Comment by Dustin (b7410e) — 8/4/2011 @ 9:42 pm

  315. The UMNO party in Malaysia which is left wing is planning to step up their attacks on non muslims.

    Comment by DohBiden (d54602) — 8/4/2011 @ 9:56 pm

  316. BBP Jimmy Carter was considered the worst President of the last hundred years.

    Comment by eaglewingz08 (6b2444) — 8/5/2011 @ 6:09 am

  317. I’ve never read a single DNC talking point and don’t know if they even catalogue them.

    You damned fool! You’ve been using them out back in your outhouse, Cousin Luke.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/5/2011 @ 6:15 am

  318. BPP…

    There was joy in Mudville.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/5/2011 @ 6:25 am

  319. BPP…

    Hope wasn’t considered a four letter word.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku (38526a) — 8/5/2011 @ 6:26 am

  320. Puddles

    Comment by Summit, N.J. (75c9eb) — 8/5/2011 @ 8:58 am

  321. eaglewinz08, was.

    Comment by SPQR (9d548a) — 8/5/2011 @ 9:02 am

  322. I could buy my son a HAPPY MEAL.
    http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9936/beforeblackpresidents.png

    I could go to Las Vegas for vacation.

    http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/998/beforeblackpresidents5.png

    POTUS would me shamed by golfing 1 day after tragedy involving NANY heroes.
    http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2025/beforeblackpresidents2.png

    Comment by Mutnodjmet (c4995d) — 8/7/2011 @ 2:33 pm

  323. #BeforeBlackPresidents ATF agents prevented stolen guns from going to Mexican drug gangs to kill our own men instead of expediting it.
    http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2606/beforeblackpresidents7.png

    Comment by Mutnodjmet (c4995d) — 8/7/2011 @ 2:42 pm

  324. Before this divisive president, people were becoming color blind.

    Comment by Summit, NJ (75c9eb) — 8/8/2011 @ 1:36 am

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