America is not at a Tipping Point
[Posted by Karl]
Yesterday, I wrote about progressive despair after the debt ceiling deal. Here’s a bit more from FDL’s David Dayen:
It’s true that the public does not believe in a competent, activist government. That’s because government in America has revealed itself to be a total failure over two successive Administrations. Government gets us into wars we never get out of. Government allows Wall Street to destroy the economy and then bails them out for the privilege. Government stands mute in the face of rampant unemployment for going on half a decade.
***
We can elegantly construct a vision of government that is attractive and desirable. But when it’s undermined by real-world results, the vision is fatally compromised. Not only is the Washington Democratic rhetorical bias toward the deficit over jobs deeply problematic; so is their performance.
See also the reliably hacktastic Greg Sargent. But the reason I noted these views were only partially correct was to head off the sort of giddy triumphalism from people like AmSpec’s Jeffrey Lord:
[I]t must be said after that 269-161 vote in the House last night: America has reached a new Tipping Point.
An epidemic of conservatism is sweeping America. And thanks to the Tea Party, yesterday disgracefully accused of terrorism by Vice President Biden (he the vice president in an administration terrified of calling real terrorists terrorists — seriously!), the country will never be the same again.
With all due respect, it really must not be said that America has reached a tipping point, or that an epidemic of conservatism is sweeping the land. As I noted (and linked) yesterday, neither Democrats nor Republicans are much interested in cutting government spending on anything except space exploration and foreign aid. Entitlements, if not quite the untouchable third rail of American politics they once were, remain quite popular — and are likely to remain so until events force the public to rationalize their actual societal costs. The Tea Party, for all of its many positive qualities, is not all that popular, and became less so during the debt ceiling debate in about the same measure as Pres. Obama. The president remains within striking distance of re-election and will have the backing of the establishment media that is more likely to reach the casual, low-information voter.
To be sure, many of the milestones Lord lists in his article may have created preference cascades (the term popularized by Instapundit Glenn Reynolds). The emergence of Rush Limbaugh, Fox News Channel, and the blogosphere did let many people know they were not alone in their beliefs, and gave them not only an outlet, but methods of banding together. But in a democratic republic, the death of 19th-20th century progressivism is unlikely to happen overnight (absent a true debt crisis), precisely because there progressive institutions and programs were installed democratically (if not always with popular support).
America is not at a Tipping Point. Not yet. Rather than invoking the Instapundit’s preference cascades, remember his invocations of Han Solo: “Great, kid… don’t get cocky.”
–Karl
which ever one of you fools thought Hobbits were candy ass pushovers should go back and re-read the books, asking for help on the big words this time.
besides, there is an American tradition that screwing with food loving, beer drinking country boys minding their own bidness is a bad idea… but if you are too smart to learn from history, far be it from us.
Comment by Flatfoot McTearorist Took — 8/3/2011 @ 2:07 am
Screw the programs, they’re crappy programs anyway and we deserve better! They should give everyone a million dollars, tax free, every year until we die. That would eliminate all these stupid fights over programs we’ll do it ourselves, leave us alone. They’ve borrowed trillions and all we get is a pain in the ass with these people, 350 million dollars is nothing, so give it up!! The rest of what comes in goes to the military, infrastructure, courts and prisons, guard the borders, the minimum. Everything else goes, the private sector can take care of the rest and let the free market work for once. We could use the million to start our own businesses, health care, retirement, house, school and so on. We won’t need programs to bribe ppl with. If libs weren’t so stupid they would have demanded this a long time ago. Instead they want cell phones? We are awake and things are going to change.
Comment by jann — 8/3/2011 @ 2:08 am
==They should give everyone a million dollars, tax free, every year until we die…
350 million dollars is nothing, so give it up!! ==
Potential top notch argument sadly weakened somewhat by jann’s having slept through math class, not having consulted actuarial tables, and writing under the influence of Jack Daniels.
Comment by elissa — 8/3/2011 @ 3:52 am
the tipping point I see is that blame bush doesn’t work anymore and people are more and more beginning to understand that president bumble is a blamey blamey whiner, simple as that.
And if the economy hits a double double dip dip – or even if recession becomes a water cooler subject – Matt Damon’s sad cowardly little punk-ass president is going to be held responsible in a way that for him will be unprecedented.
It will seem terribly terribly unfair to him and he will make pouty face. But too bad so sad.
Comment by happyfeet — 8/3/2011 @ 4:39 am
Comment by DohBiden — 8/3/2011 @ 4:48 am
They should give everyone one billion dollars. It’s just 3,500 dollars, after all.
/moby
Comment by Dustin — 8/3/2011 @ 4:51 am
We’re past the black hole event horizon. Last year our debt cost $400 Billion in interest. It’s going to rise very quickly now.
Sovereign Debt world wide is mostly issued in short notes today because the risk is sky-high. One quarter of all sovereign debt has to be rolled by the end of October.
Look out below.
Comment by gary gulrud — 8/3/2011 @ 5:00 am
Now, Karl, considering the pure vituperation at all levels, from the MSM, entertainment, educational
institutions directed at the Tea Party, for the pure nerve of trying to right the ship of state,
Comment by ian cormac — 8/3/2011 @ 5:31 am
Heck, they’re not even into cutting the rate of growth of spending. Remember, the only ‘cutting’ they made was in how much extra spending there would be, they made not a single cut in the actual amount of money being spent.
As said before, the biggest single mistake the GOP has made is in not eliminating the law that dictates that a reduction in extra spending is to be deemed a cut.
Comment by steve — 8/3/2011 @ 6:09 am
What? “… giddy triumphalism”
I can’t see how Jeffrey Lord’s linked article can responsibly be characterized as either giddy or as an example of triumphalism. Karl, please take the time to have another look, re-read Lord’s article. You might want to consider taking a “Mulligan” and giving it another shot. Just sayin’
Comment by ropelight — 8/3/2011 @ 6:19 am
ropelight,
I know you’re a big Tea Party fan. And I’ll defend the Tea Party on a lot of stuff. But I quoted Lord. And what he wrote about an epidemic of conservatism is completely unrealistic. If you doubt this, take a look at how lame the debt deal really is.
Comment by Karl — 8/3/2011 @ 6:22 am
Tipping point? I’m not sure about that, but I do know that the TEA Party has changed the conversation. Nearly every political poll now includes not just Democrats, Republicans and Independents, but also TEA Party affiliation as a broad category. And while there’s a lot of anti-TEA party sentiment out there, it’s concentrated among the Liberal left. And since that contains most of the mainstream media, folks who get their news primarily from the MSM (and there are a lot of them!) see a much more negative spin on the TEA Party than they would otherwise. The Left is allowed to call the TEA Party terrorists, and the MSM lets them get away with it.
But that’s changing. Water cooler discussion is changing. The positions of independents and young Americans are changing. I mentioned to a number of college-age relatives that over half of Americans pay no income taxes. They were shocked. As the state of the American entitlement system spreads to the average taxpayer, you’re going to see more and more independents embracing fiscal conservativism, and as they do the ranks of the TEA Party will expand.
The more I think about it, the more I think we are at a tipping point, because this is the year that America realized it was broke.
Comment by AJsDaddie — 8/3/2011 @ 6:37 am
I think that America gave up on centrists back in 2008. They elected an obvious Leftist to shake things up. (Note: if the Left didn’t think Obama was a Socialist, why are they so upset with him now?).
In 2010 the people hedged, seeing that Obama had no new answers.
In 2012 they may well go the other way IF there is a credible candidate on the libertarian right. (Not on the social right, they’ve been there, thank you). As of this time, there is no such candidate; which is the main reason we’re not yet at a tipping point.
Comment by Kevin M — 8/3/2011 @ 6:43 am
“If you doubt this, take a look at how lame the debt deal really is.”
You’re talking about Washington, not America. Washington is vastly, unforgivably out of step with Main Street. They listen to their own echo chamber which is mostly populated by folks with a vested interest in the status quo, so certainly you get crappy legislation.
But that can be fixed be the conservatism that is growing among the people. People vote, and suddenly we have new faces in Congress. Lather, rinse, repeat, until we have a body of representatives of the voters as opposed to professional politicians. It will take a few cycles to get there, but I think we’re going to make it before the Republic collapses.
Even this first rather lame effort showed considerable progress: the conversation was forever changed on the debt and the deficit. A Democrat president actually talked about entitlement reforms. No, we didn’t do anything yet, but we’re a lot closer and the discussion is moving in the right direction. We just have to make sure to follow up at the ballot box in 2012.
Comment by AJsDaddie — 8/3/2011 @ 6:44 am
Not sure I’m in agreement on this. Obama was painted as a centrist in 2008, even though it was obvious to most of us on the right side of the spectrum that he was a creature of the Far Far Left. For most of those who relied on the MSM, what they believed was that he, in fact, was a centrist. He sure sounded like one in his public pronouncements during the campaign, with some notable (and little-reported by the MSM) exceptions.
But I do agree that if the right candidate emerges from the GOP primary, one who is of the right, we are quite likely to see the laws of physics upheld… “for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.”
Comment by bob (either orr) — 8/3/2011 @ 6:54 am
fiscal conservatives like Specter, Crist, Murkowski,
Collins,Brown, Snowe, Cohen from the previos iteration, funny how that dichotomy rarely works
Comment by ian cormac — 8/3/2011 @ 6:57 am
I mentioned to a number of college-age relatives that over half of Americans pay no income taxes. They were shocked.
Ask them a few more questions, like what is the average profit made by various corporations. For example, ask them the profit margins of supermarket chains. The level of ignorance on economics is a large part of the problem.
Comment by Mike K — 8/3/2011 @ 7:09 am
“this is the year that America realized it was broke” I wish! Sep 2008 wasn’t a big enough shock to change our trajectory. Neither was this debt-limit fooferaw (which resulted in no decrease in spending, deficits or debt.)
Over-leveraged banks, ridiculously low interest rates, $trillions in insane opaque zero-reserve derivative contracts, deadbeat borrowers, stupid massive govt housing policy, fund managers’ abandonment of due diligence, USA govt house-of-cards accounting: all the sh!t that was found broken in 2008 is still broken today! It’s going to take something really big and cataclysmic to make America realize it is broke. This is awful, but our political system seems unable to grapple with such a huge mess.
Comment by gp — 8/3/2011 @ 7:13 am
One could say what local, state and federal government agencies are [really] all about is that although they are already underwoeked and overpaid, bloated bureaucrasies, they continue to flagrantly abuse their authorities by raising revenues to increase [their own] salaries, and by hiring more people to make their jobs easier than they are already, and by extorting higher benefits for themselves, such medical care and exorbitant pensions, unlike any benefits which are offered anywhere in the private sector. They are, in effect, extortionists, plain and simple.
BTW, One of my brothers has several government agencies as clients, and he told me that there is an old axiom in his business, which is that when selling to offices in the private sector, stress that his product will make them more effective and more efficient and more productive, but when selling to government agencies, he and his sales people always stress that their product will make their jobs easier, which loosely relates to the point that I made in my first paragraph.
Comment by Summit, N.J. — 8/3/2011 @ 7:17 am
After Clinton’s political recovery in 1996, it’s silly to say this is any sort of tipping point, with the election still 15 months off. But Clinton got his mojo back to beat Dole by listening to Dick Morris and basically telling the Democratic Party’s far left activists to pound sand if they didn’t like him signing the welfare reform bill concocted by the GOP Congress.
Obama has yet to show the stomach to do something like that. He lacks a sense of who his is without having the adulation of fawning supporters, and right now they’re pretty ticked off at him just for being too passive in the debt ceiling deal, and he spent Tuesday desperately trying to spin and come out with talking points to show the activists he’s still loyal to The Cause.
Cutting the umbilical cord figures to be a lot harder for Obama to do than it was for Clinton, especially since Obama’s M.O. is to kick the can down the road for as long as possible and find someone else to do the grunt work and take the heat. He still has at least 10-12 months to show this wasn’t a tipping point, but he’s also going to have to be a Barack Obama who’ll willing to tell his base to shut up and get in line because they have no place else to go in 2012. That’s something he’d do to John Boehner and other Republicans as long as he has the rest of the Democrats covering his back. Telling Nancy Pelosi and the others to take it or leave it may be a lot harder for Obama to do.
Comment by John — 8/3/2011 @ 7:18 am
This strikes me too much like the ’97 budget deal, that Franklin Raines cooked up, which made the GOP
which had been chastened by the shutdown, and the Dole loss,
Comment by ian cormac — 8/3/2011 @ 7:22 am
In an argument with someone yesterday, I was told, “At least Obama knows how to speak.”
How’s that working out? And does that make you feel good?
Also, I am getting tired of his constant use of “folks” and dropping his “g’s.”
Comment by AZ Bob — 8/3/2011 @ 7:29 am
Karl – This post is just flat out racist. Denounced and condemned.
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 7:30 am
Unfortunately the tipping point won’t be until we have a full blown Greek style crisis and then the hard choices will be made by the Democrats. The idea the nation has turned to real fiscal conservatism is a delusion.
These huge entitlements SS and Medicare have done their job which is to make people vote Democrat. Hugh Hewitt said someone he knows says he’s voting for the Democrats next year because the Republicans are going to cut Medicare. This was not some dyed in the wool Democrat.
In other words, paradoxically the fact that the government’s fiscal situation is deteriorating is making many people LESS likely to vote for change, among people who UNDERSTAND it’s deteriorating. And of course there are still many out there who get entitlements and don’t think there’s a big problem and they are even more likely to be voting Democrat as a result of the budget battles.
Comment by Gerald A — 8/3/2011 @ 7:34 am
“Unfortunately the tipping point won’t be until we have a full blown Greek style crisis and then the hard choices will be made by the Democrats.”
Gerald A – As more states and localities join the ranks of the fiscally doomed such as California, Illinois and New York and if we see more ugly, violent demonstrations from the left such as those which occurred in Madison earlier this year, the tipping point will be accelerated. Most sane Americans react negatively to chants of “Raise our taxes” to save my overpaid cushy government job that has better benefits than yours.
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 7:52 am
America realizes it is broke:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/08/federal-spending-congress-deficit-.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CultureMonster+%28Culture+Monster%29
(Hat tip: Big Govt.)
$137,000 for a five-week
seminarnavel-observation-coffee-klatch for college teachers on “the life, work and cultural milieu of Oscar Wilde”$50,000 grant … to create and test a
“dynamic script interface”useless rathole … to study how a theatrical performance’s life cycle unfolds$137,000 to … support a four-week
seminarvacation in London that aims to bolster teachers’ ability to instruct their students in “The Canterbury Tales.”Oh, yeah, austerity!
Comment by gp — 8/3/2011 @ 7:52 am
Didn’t someone here claim – “Fox plays it down the middle”?
Nice to know there at least some in this echo chamber who can acknowledge reality.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 7:55 am
Spartacvs, playing down the middle means fairly acknowledging the positions of both sides. Something that CNN / NBC / CBS / ABC / PBS et al did not do. Nice to know you are still dumber than a rock.
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 8:04 am
For a person making an accusation of others repeating themselves, you sure are a self-important and lazy echo chamber.
Pretty amusing, actually.
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 8:05 am
Dave Surls didn’t appreciate my quoting Thomas Jefferson yesterday; perhaps this is more to your liking Dave:
“No morn ever dawned more favorable than ours did; and no day was every more clouded than the present!
Wisdom, and good examples are necessary at this time to rescue the political machine from the impending storm.”
–George Washington, letter to James Madison, 1786
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 8:05 am
SPQR, I was writing about the PBT..
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 8:05 am
Look at the Republican presidential candidates that have been beaten- HW Bush (who raised taxes after the “no new taxes” pledge) and had the goofy Perot siphon nearly 20% of the vote, then BOB DOLE! -holy cow how did he get ANY votes, and then the totally worthless McCain who told us that there was nothing to fear with an Obama presidency? to me it is a wonder that the Republicans have come as close to winning as they have. We need a real candidate that can connect to people. I don’t know who that is but the current contenders look weak, again.
Comment by tim — 8/3/2011 @ 8:14 am
Simon Jester, Hmmm?
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 8:18 am
Here’s my advice for teachers who want to “bolster their ability to instruct” about Chaucer:
1) The text of The Canterbury Tales is free online, along with tons of critical analysis and interpretation. (But of course, teachers will still find a reason to assign a pricey text for the course.)
2) Tell your students to watch Pasolini’s movie on Netflix. It’s got authentic locations (so you won’t have to fly to England to see them,) and it’s quicker and more entertaining than reading the dreary thing.
3) Encourage your students to study something worthwhile, something that will put money in their pockets and build the economy. Once they are self-sufficient citizens, they can spend all the leisure time they want to study literature. In the final analysis, The Tales is just a musty 700+ year-old collection of dirty jokes.
Comment by gp — 8/3/2011 @ 8:21 am
SPQR….The correct description of our brave gladiator is:
Dumberer than a sack of Andrews!
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 8:26 am
How do you square that with all their promotion work for the teahadi movement?
Absent all the AstroTurf organization & money from the likes of the Coke heads, combined with Fox’s tireless promotion dressed as ‘coverage’. Is it likely the angry and confused “keep your thieving government hands off my Medicare” types, who form the core of the teahadi ‘movement’, could have organized themselves into a coherent political force?
We report, you decide.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 8:27 am
Karl, you’re an intelligent man, a clear thinking professional, and an accomplished writer, so you certainly don’t need a lesson in rhetoric from me. But, to be fair, since Lord was using Malcolm Gladwell’s The Tipping Point, How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference as the vehicle for his analysis of the TEA Party’s recent growth, and current prominence, he can’t be faulted for employing Gladwell’s own analogies and metaphors: (bold added)
Lord sees the slow accumulation of Conservative ideas and their growing impact on the political process as a representative example of how a paradigm shift can appear to have suddenly burst into public consciousness. Everyone understands how little acorns grow slowly into mighty oak trees. But events like the destruction of the Berlin Wall, the fall of the USSR, or TEA Party victories in 2008 seem to catch us by surprise.
Karl, you disagree with Lord’s point, and I respect your opinion, but to label it “giddy triumphalism” is over the top. That’s an unfair criticism which misrepresents Lord’s stated position, and in the great ebb and flow of debate here it’s a rather minor complaint.
I’m had my say and I’m done with it.
(I am a supporter of the TEA Party, but not a mindless one, however, my opinions should seen in the clear light of my affiliation.)
Comment by ropelight — 8/3/2011 @ 8:29 am
PBT = Previously Banned Troll. You can even add a Presumptive to the acronym (PPBT) but I don’t think I am wrong.
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 8:29 am
And you have to admit that there are few things more deliciously ironic than this PPBT referring to the actions of anyone else as being an “echo chamber.”
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 8:31 am
How do you square that with all their promotion work for the teahadi movement?
What are you talking about?
Comment by Gerald A — 8/3/2011 @ 8:32 am
They will always look weak because your political philosophy is weak and unattractive to most regular folks. That’s why you have to juice it up with cultural wedge issues and the overly simplistic, “no new taxes” – “drill, baby drill” type sloganeering aimed at capturing the low information segment of the electorate. Going toe to toe on policy issues doesn’t suit the GOP for the obvious reason that the modern GOP is bereft of any substantial policy initiatives, has been for a long while.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 8:35 am
Despite the huge short term problems Obamas 2008 election was it was necessary and helpful for several reasons:
1. Facing total defeat was the only way the repub party would ever reform, from the horrendous Bush platform of “compassionate conservatism”, which was essentially social conservatism, and fiscal irresponsibility. From now on “real conservatism” doesn’t give a hoot how much you criticise gays and abortion unless you are also sound on cutting spending and limiting gov.
2. Putting the dems completely in charge allowed the average person to finally realize how horrible leftist dem gov could actually be. The Tea Party could not form and grow until we had first looked into the abyss, and faced potential oblivion if we did not change.
Comment by richard40 — 8/3/2011 @ 8:36 am
your political philosophy is weak and unattractive to most regular folks. That’s why you have to juice it up with cultural wedge issues and the overly simplistic, “no new taxes”
You’d think the GOP keeps talking about tax breaks for corporate jets or something!!
Comment by Gerald A — 8/3/2011 @ 8:38 am
Nice for someone to finally acknowledge how awful the Bush presidency turned out to be. But what of his legacy and the unprecedented economic mess he left for Obama to deal with?
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 8:40 am
Simon, ah.
AD, “Dumberer than a sack of Andrews!”, I can’t remember … who invented that? It wasn’t me, was it?
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 8:42 am
You just pegged my Irony Meter. You never acknowledge reality, why should you complain about others?
Comment by Chuck Bartowski — 8/3/2011 @ 8:42 am
How do you square that with all their promotion work for the teahadi movement?
So…what are you talking about?
Comment by Gerald A — 8/3/2011 @ 8:44 am
I see spurty is unarmed with all of its mediamatterz, thinkregress, and Kos talking points. It is quite the pathetic display. So much hatred, and anger, and dishonesty. Poor schoolchildren. The country weeps at what this clown subjects their children to.
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 8:45 am
SPQR – I think I can claim credit for that little gem
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 8:48 am
Some evidence of a tipping point here.
Little acorn, but still.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 8:48 am
I just think that the PPBT needs to remember Dean Wurmer’s advice to Flounder in “Animal House,” JD.
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 8:48 am
“…a sack of Andrews.”
Possibly JD.
and for our angry gladiator:
“(he) doth protest too much.”
An interesting corollary to the theme of the “Tipping Point” article is something that I stumbled over this week that spoke about how ideas spring forth from obscurity to accepted-wisdom:
An idea will languish in obscurity if less than 10% of the people give it any credence, but once it crosses that bright line,
it will spread like wildfire if it has any validity (unlike Elvis still being alive).
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 8:50 am
Spvrty – I really hope the Democrats run Obama in 2012. What is his plan for getting the American government to live within its means? Please be specific and provide a link.
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 8:52 am
Winston Churchill was not well liked either. Until all the best and brightest French and Brits got it so cocked up that he was the only one who could save them. That’s because he was right. And they were wrong. And there is right and wrong. And it’s not subjective.
Comment by f1guyus — 8/3/2011 @ 8:53 am
Argenziano is going to run as a Turncoat-Republican/Democrat in a year that is shaping up as a GOP rout (with the usual disclaimers about predicting any political event 15-mos out – but, yesterday, Dick Morris predicted that Obama will lose in a landslide, and for some very interesting reasons that he is highly familiar with).
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 8:56 am
“allowed the average person to finally realize how horrible leftist dem gov could actually be.” I wish! The average people I know in my offline life, most of them, live for govt handouts, and spend most of their creative juices figuring out how to get more bennies. Nothing’s changed there. They still blame the rich for everything, and think that the rich are the only thing holding them back, even as they clamor for more seizure of their wealth.
Comment by gp — 8/3/2011 @ 8:56 am
Spartacvs, CNN sponsored “healthcare” forums to help the Democrats push their legislation. So once again, we see that your brilliant points ain’t so brilliant.
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 8:58 am
sparty is not one of Peggy Noonan’s 1000-points of light;
perhaps a dwindling ember from a garbage fire.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 9:00 am
Spurty –
On the day that Nancy Pelosi so humbly and graciously accepted the gavel as Speaker of the AHouse what were the following -
The Unemployment rate?
The US annual deficit?
The average price of a gallon of gas? (Nancy Pelosi, campaigning in 2008, “Gas won’t be two dollars a gallon when I’m Speaker of the House!!___Thanks, Nancy!)
Total employment of adults in the US?
Percentage of adults active in the work force?
Comment by Have Blue — 8/3/2011 @ 9:00 am
gp, you need to run in better circles.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 9:01 am
“They will always look weak because your political philosophy is weak and unattractive to most regular folks.”
Spvrty – Is “Hope and Change” and deep political philosophy or just a cheap slogan for low information Obama voters signalling their candidate will abandon all his campaign promises upon entering office. If Obama is doing so well, why are you so angry?
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 9:01 am
While Fox sponsored teabagger rallies.
Note the difference?
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 9:01 am
Moron
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 9:02 am
“While Fox sponsored teabagger rallies.”
Cite please
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 9:03 am
Hmm – One promotes freedom and independence and one promotes dependency and government control?
Comment by Have Blue — 8/3/2011 @ 9:03 am
Spartacvs, the difference was that CNN was pimping a partisan agenda while Fox News aided grass roots organizations representing a large mass of ordinary people.
Yep, I see the difference.
Meanwhile, you continue to use terrorist and sexual innuendo to attack your political opponents like the bigoted little piece of crap that you are.
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 9:03 am
Whatever someone paid him to predict.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 9:04 am
TEA Party rallies were composed of people from across the political spectrum, and spanned the width of the country Coast-to-Coast, and every fly-over village and town in-between.
Then, there is Madison!
Where the Left was hoist upon a petard!
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 9:04 am
Though I will note one small improvement in Spvrty’s friends propaganda. Now when they publish a cartoon depicting the “enemy” that all right thinking people should despise they only illustrate him a a tiny fat man in a suit running down a street carrying money bags with bills spilling out. They have airbrushed out the hook nose and the Star of David on his lapel.
Comment by Have Blue — 8/3/2011 @ 9:06 am
sparty is particularly upset with the Glenn Beck gathering on the Washington Mall, and all of those Hannity events.
BTW, just how many people show up to see and hear Rachel Madcow?
Or, The Olberdouche?
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 9:07 am
Spvrty – What is Obama’s plan?
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 9:07 am
#44
1.) The economy didn’t tank until a year and a half after Democrats took over control of both Houses of Congress, and Basic Civics 101 tells us that Congress, not the President, confiscates and disburses our money, excessively in the care of that new, Democrat-controlled Congress.
2,) Unemployment was at 4.5% at the time of the 2008 election, and as a vote of no confidence in this current administration, unemployment didn’t even begin to skyrocket upwards to what it is now until immediately after Obama was inaugurated …, and while Democrats were still in control of both Houses of Congress.
3.) Inflation didn’t begin to skyrocket upwards until the middle of last year, a year and a half after Obama was inaugurated, and while Democrats were still controlling both Houses of Congress.
4.) When Bush left office, the Middle East was stabilized. This current administration of chronic screw-ups have completely destabilized the [entire] Middle East.
From which any rational person would conclude that Democrats [own] the rotten economy, the high unemployment, high inflation and the complete destabilization of the entire Middle East. With al of their initiatives, both foreign and domestic, this current administration has been a disaster. And yet you continue to defend them. Go figure.
BTW, I’ve noticed that all of your opinions are based entirely on your wishful thinking, on misinformation born out of ignorance, on contrived, bogus BS, on distortions and exaggerations, and on your screwy rationales which reinforce your screwy delusions, which isn’t to say that I’m dismissive of your comments. They provide insights as to the thinking behind Democrats’ actions. Indeed, I like your comments. Seriously.
Comment by Summit, N.J. — 8/3/2011 @ 9:08 am
“…a tiny fat man in a suit running down a street carrying money bags with bills spilling out…”
That was a staple in one of the news/culture magazines back in the day, a left-over from The New Deal.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 9:09 am
Cite:
Hannity video switch-up is only the tip of Fox News video doctoring iceberg
video doctoring, seems to be a growth industry in GOper circles.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 9:11 am
#67: at least Morris gets paid. You, um, give it away for free.
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 9:12 am
While Fox sponsored teabagger rallies.
What are you talking about?
Comment by Gerald A — 8/3/2011 @ 9:12 am
What did the one neuron in the troll’s head say to the other?
Hello…..lo…..lo.
Other ideas?
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 9:14 am
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 9:11 am
There’s nothing in there about Fox sponsoring Tea Party rallies.
Comment by Gerald A — 8/3/2011 @ 9:14 am
Spurty is not even trying today. It is like an octopus squirting out an ink cloud. Remember, this is not the action of someone that is leading, or that is confident. This is flailing about, look BUNNIES BS.
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 9:14 am
1.) The economy didn’t tank until a year and a half after Democrats took over control of both Houses of Congress, and Basic Civics 101 tells us that Congress, not the President, confiscates and disburses our money, excessively in the care of that new, Democrat-controlled Congress.
Most economists will tell you that it takes approximately 18-months for any policy change of government to affect the economy.
Elect Dems into control of Congress Nov-06, the “recession” officially begins in Dec-06, Bear collapses in Mar-08, $140/bbl oil in May-08,
Fanny/Freddy induced housing market collapse goes full-term in June-08 (co-incidently at the time that Obama secured the Dem nomination),
Lehman collapses in Sep-08, dragging the entire financial system with it!
Obama Elected Nov-08, and it’s been downhill ever since.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 9:17 am
==how ideas spring forth from obscurity to accepted-wisdom==
Re this very matter: I waded through both Joan Walsh and Gleen’s pieces over on Salon complete with the comments sections. Lotsa, lotsa Obama hate going on over there among the progs. Buyers’ remorse. Disappointment, anger, shattered dreams. Publicly calling the one a liar, a shill, and a fraud. Many admitting he looked sooo good on paper and in their euphoria over his rock-starness nobody dug deep enough. Some really nasty stuff.
Now granted–their frustration is that he is not liberal enough, but still it’s a tipping point of sorts. Apparently it is now generally understood that it’s OK (at least in some circles) to criticize Barry and not be called a racist. I do hope somebody informs Maddow and Maher about this turn of events with respect to our once near-sacred first black man in the White House.
Comment by elissa — 8/3/2011 @ 9:17 am
JD, the new criteria is:
Leading from Behind!
Which, when you think about it, is quite easy when your head is firmly stuck up your nether region.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 9:19 am
elissa, does this mean that a Bernie Sanders will Primary Obama?
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 9:20 am
Gerald#78: hmmm. Who else posts links without actually, you know, reading them? Are you suspecting what I am here?
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 9:25 am
It’s truthnjustice, he did it all the time.
If rubbing two brain cells together was guaranteed to start a fire, he’d freeze to death.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 9:29 am
I forget which troll does that.
Comment by Gerald A — 8/3/2011 @ 9:30 am
Ah yes truthnjustice
Comment by Gerald A — 8/3/2011 @ 9:30 am
Bizzaro world indeed.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 9:32 am
Report: “Fair and balanced” network aggressively promotes “tea party” protests
Here’s your link.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 9:35 am
Well, it’s certainly familiar. What a sad little troll!
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 9:36 am
Spvrty – Consider the results thus far of the Obama presidency:
Two million-private sector jobs have been lost.
Unemployment jumped from 7.8 to 9.2 percent with a simply terrible 2011 first-quarter economic growth rate of just 0.4 percent.
A record 1 in 7 Americans is on food stamps.
Gasoline prices more than doubled, from $1.83 to $3.74 per gallon.
National debt increased 35 percent, to $14.5 trillion, or $137,000 for each taxpayer.
National unfunded liabilities increased 47 percent, to $114.9 trillion, or a cool $1 million for each taxpayer (and this does not yet include Obamacare).
America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating.
I hope the Democrats run Obama in 2012. What does he have up his sleeve next?
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 9:36 am
Oh, that was funny.
Premise #1: Fox News is partisan and propagandistic.
Premise #2: I’ll support #1 by quoting Media Matters!
I take it back. Truthnjustice or that Kman person were not that clueless.
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 9:39 am
Cite please.
It’s truly breathtaking how all those poor folks on subsidized mortgages somehow coerced the whole of Wall St. into financial ruin
/sarc
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 9:39 am
Spvrty – BTW, those descriptors are from a very liberal source, so obviously biased in your favor. I’ll ask the question again, what is his plan for getting the American government to live within its means? Please be specific and provide a link.
If Obama is doing so well as a president, why are you so angry?
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 9:39 am
Hey, troll? Call Soros and ask him. Don’t forget the lotion.
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 9:41 am
“It’s truly breathtaking how all those poor folks on subsidized mortgages somehow coerced the whole of Wall St. into financial ruin”
Spvrty – Are you claiming to need an explanation of how mortgage defaults cause losses for their holders? Seriously? Are you that dumb?
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 9:42 am
Premise #3 Ignore the message, just shoot the messenger.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 9:42 am
LOL, that reminds me of those animated sketches on Red Eye,
Comment by ian cormac — 8/3/2011 @ 9:42 am
Daley, I think he tired of fluffing for Hope and Change. Like Instapundit says to the progressive Left : heeeeeeyyyy Rube!
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 9:42 am
sparty has never heard of CRA; another evil GOP program originated by Jimmah, expanded by Bubbah, ruthlessly enforced by Hamlet, jr., and enforced in court by that wicked legal eagle for ACORN, Obummer.
If this guy had a clue, it would increase its IQ by a factor of 10!
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 9:44 am
I apologize to the other commenters, #96 was obviously meant as a rhetorical question.
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 9:44 am
#97: you aren’t very smart, are you?
Do you truly not see your own ironic projection?
Kman was like that, too.
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 9:44 am
#44 & #72 (addendum) & #80 – And gee, I didn’t even mention those cool initiatives by (Democrats) Barney Fank and Christopher Dodd that sent the economy into a further tailspin …., or the Democrats’ cool Obamacare Package, extremely irresoponsible and prohibitively priced legislation intrroduced when we were already going into our worst recession ever, sending the economy into a further tailspin, and yet, amazingly Spartacus, you blame it all on the Bush Administration!!! What is wrong with that picture???
Ordinarily, I’m unwilling to get involved with your squables here. But when you attack Bush for all of the wrong reasons, well, you tried my patience. You see, I”m very fond of George, Laura, Dick and Lynne. In fact, I’m a [huge] G.W.Bush fan.
Comment by Summit, N.J. — 8/3/2011 @ 9:44 am
Grow the economy.
And the GOP plan? Austerity, which has no earthly chance of succeeding because it will depress economic activity even further and reduce tax revenues making the deficit/debt problem even worse.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 9:45 am
Spurty – basic honesty/integrity test. What names have you commented under here? What names have you been banned under here? When did you quit absuing cats and buggering goats?
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 9:45 am
BTW, Oh Fearless Gladiator:
FoxNews had clips of those TEA Party events on its’ news programs because they were…wait for it…
NEWS!
You know what news is don’t you?
Among other things it is events that involve and effect hundreds of thousands of people, particularly American People!
But, to know that, one would have to be sentient
(in the words of that great baseball philosopher, Annie Savoy: You can look it up!).
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 9:49 am
No, I’m looking for an explanation of how the relatively small # of defaulting mortgages at F&F led to the far greater number of non-F&F mortgage defaults and caused the 2008 financial meltdown on Wall St.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 9:49 am
How does Teh One plan on growing the economy while simultaneously jumping up and down on said economy’s throat?
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 9:51 am
Promotion, NOT news.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 9:52 am
It has no idea of the number or expanse of the mortgages purchased, and guaranteed by Fannie/Freddie,
or how they were resold to The Street as AAA-rated MBS’.
This is the face of the Public Education Establishment, folks.
Revel in it!
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 9:54 am
“Grow the economy.”
Spvrty – Ha! How, by expanding government? Surely you jest.
I asked for a plan not a platitude. He’s waged war on the private sector since taking office. Private sector job growth plateaued after the passage of ObamaCare and now you claim he will grow the economy after those dismal first and second quarter growth numbers? How? The EPA just proposed more restrictions on ozone that will cost American businesses hundreds of billions to comply with, another end run around Congress. Can you say double dip?
Serious question – Does it hurt to be so stupid?
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 9:54 am
To feel pain, you first have to have brain receptors, which would require having a brain.
Is spartacvs Joe Biden?
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 9:56 am
Ah, Spartacvs reveals the nefarious Fox News actually telling people about local groups self-organizing without the sanction of political party into rallies that welcome grass roots participation. Oh, the evil.
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 9:58 am
Spartacvs, Obama has no plan to “grow” the economy. His entire strategy since January of ’09 has been to hope that the economy grows despite his presidency so that he can take credit for it. That was implicit in those hilarious charts predicting employment rates during the promotion of his faux stimulus bill.
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 9:59 am
“No, I’m looking for an explanation of how the relatively small # of defaulting mortgages at F&F led to the far greater number of non-F&F mortgage defaults and caused the 2008 financial meltdown on Wall St.”
Spvrty – You need to start by correcting your misinformation first.
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 10:01 am
SPQR….More “Leading from Behind”.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 10:02 am
I’ll need a cite to explain how the Dodd-Frank medicine prescribed for Wall St. led to further tail spinning of the economy and a cite detailing how the CBO estimate that the ACA would reduce the deficit by $143 billion over the first decade and by $1.2 trillion in the second decade could be characterized as ‘irresponsible’ or ‘prohibitively priced’.
Take your time.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 10:02 am
“Spartacvs, Obama has no plan to “grow” the economy.”
SPQR – In fairness, though, Obama wants to redistribute the economy and Spvrty may be hopelessly confused over the big word.
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 10:04 am
Why would anyone here provide you with information that:
1- you should already have;
2- you would not read;
3- you would not understand;
4- you would mistate.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 10:05 am
I have never seen a leftist willing to accept this offer – I would be willing to trade the talk radio, Fox News, and WSJ editorial page for ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, CNBC, MSBC, LAT, NYT, Chicago Trib, Houston Chron and all the local network affiliates. Somehow they never seem willing to do so, yet wail about the relative minor influence of the ReichWing media.
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 10:05 am
“Take your time.”
Spvrty – Hey, I’m still waiting for your presentation of an actual Obama plan. Since you have not been able to produce one, I have to assume that means he does not have one.
I sure hope the Democrats run Obama in 2012.
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 10:06 am
Spartacvs, obviously you never even bothered to read the CBO report on ACA. Because the report itself included hedging on the figures because they had to use Congress’ legislated assumptions. The CBO report was skeptical of the validity of those assumptions.
But you never bothered to read it, so you don’t even know that.
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 10:07 am
Good one, I likes it. Mind if I borrow?
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 10:07 am
They have to, who else would employ Axelrod?
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 10:08 am
And the GOP plan? Austerity, which has no earthly chance of succeeding because it will depress economic activity even further and reduce tax revenues making the deficit/debt problem even worse.
Yes. The guvmint must take more of our moneys so they can spend it which will in turn give us more moneys to spend (taking our moneys and then giving it back to us?) and in spending it we will then give them back even more moneys that they can spend because heaven knows they never has enuff of our moneys to spend and it’s categorically impossible for them to spend less of our moneys therefore ipso facto they must continue to take our moneys and take more of it especially from those that dare to have a lot of it and don’t like to share it How … DARE they save their moneys for a rainy day? Don’t they know that AWG drove all the rain away? After all, ‘equality’, enforced at the end of a guvmint gun-barrel is what liberty is all about — the freedom to be coerced into conformity.
Comment by Icy Texan — 8/3/2011 @ 10:09 am
Spurty was previously shown the revised CBo number showing BarckyCare to be 2+trillion in deficit, but threw a hand grenade at the messenger. Thois little leftist is fundamentally unserious and dishonest.
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 10:10 am
“Fox News has frequently aired segments encouraging viewers to get involved with “tea party” protests across the country”
Spvrty – Cluebat. MSNBS has frequently aired segments encouraging viewers to get involved with progressive protests and politics across the country. Dumbass.
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 10:12 am
Promotion, NOT news.</i
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 9:52 am
– Perhaps FOXNews should have its tax-exempt status revoked.
Oh wait, that's Media Matters.
Comment by Icy Texan — 8/3/2011 @ 10:14 am
Now, now, don’t be too hard on the lad;
after all, he hopes to get out of Head Start next year.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 10:14 am
Breaking: another hijacking in DC
FAA shutdown to continue as Congress goes on vacation
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 10:15 am
You really are a sad little person. There is more to life than shilling. And when you accuse others of, um, biased sources…? Well, there is a log in your eye, so to speak.
Seriously, dude. What are you, nineteen? I hope so, because you are embarrassing yourself.
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 10:17 am
The House of Representatives has passed an FAA Authorization bill. The Democrats in the Senate refuse to act on it.
Who is at fault for the delay?
Comment by Have Blue — 8/3/2011 @ 10:17 am
Today, the FAA;
tomorrow, the EPA, and the DoE, and the DoAg, and HUD…
and, I wouldn’t bet on how long after 20Jan13 that CPB exists either.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 10:19 am
Who is at fault for the delay?
Well, what do you expect when Sharon Angle is in charge…oh, wait…nevermind…
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 10:20 am
Absolutely right.
Those who prospered under the Bush regime and were kept afloat by the Wall St. bailout that occurred on his watch, should have to pay their fair share. I don’t see any prospect of that happening with Romney the GOP establishment choice, or pastor Perry in the WH, do you?
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 10:27 am
I notice, PBT, that you don’t really respond when skooled. First you tried to claim that the FAA was being “held hostage” with the implication that Republicans did it.
You were shown it was due to Democratic nonsense (where is that budget by the way?).
You don’t reply; you just move on to another argument, spewing snark.
Personally, I don’t think you read or think deeply. After all, you responded to questions about one-sidedness at Fox News with a “cite” from Media Matters.
Not smart. Or perhaps, simply lazy.
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 10:30 am
More ankel biting by ReichWingNews…
“…Private sector payrolls rose at a faster pace than expected in July,
but a surprising increase in layoffs in the sector helped push the number of announced U.S. jobs cuts to a 16-month high…”
Oh, wait a minute, that’s from CNBC!
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 10:34 am
Because the bill contained a poisoned pill the Senate was unwilling to swallow.
The Senate is not obligated to pass every partisan bill the house manages send its way, especially not those which have already attracted a veto threat from the President.
Smarter conservatives please.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 10:34 am
Spvrty – Bush is not running for office again, sorry.
Why not come back when you’ve done some research and can actually have an intelligent conversation, if there is ever a chance of that?
BTW, still waiting for you to reveal Obama’s plan.
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 10:34 am
“Because the bill contained a poisoned pill the Senate was unwilling to swallow.”
Spvrty – Moron. They can pass their own version of the bill without the objectionable poison pill and then it would have gone to conference committee. Don’t you understand how laws are made? Better trolls please.
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 10:37 am
Complete nihilism.
Modern republicans; once we’ve hollowed out the middle class and removed the regulatory authorities that offer a measure of protection for them and pared back their entitlements, those who are best positioned to take advantage stand to make out like bandits.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 10:41 am
“…The Senate is not obligated to pass every partisan bill the house manages send its way, …”
Whoops. I guess it is different when Soros-fluffers want something.
You do realize how infantile you look, right?
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 10:44 am
They could have, but they didn’t. Any idea why not? or who may have stood in the way of a further temporary authorization?
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 10:44 am
Daley#140: you have a choice here. Either this person has never seen “Schoolhouse Rock” or they are deeply, truly ignorant.
Feelings over facts. Look at the hypocrisy, over and over again.
But then, it’s just a PBT.
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 10:45 am
More bad econ news in graph form…
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/08/the-scariest-4-economic-graphs-ive-seen-this-year/242997/
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 10:46 am
This is an orgy of idiocy from spurty.
See Jd’s 1st Rule of Trolls, and the 2nd Restatement of JD’s 1st Rule of Trolls.
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 10:50 am
Regulatory Agencies do not protect “the middle Class” but become advocates for the industries that they capture, just as state-level regulatory/licensing agencies become barriers to entry hindering people from bettering their condition.
What did you major in: PE?
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 10:51 am
#117 – LOL, You’re dancing, bobbing, weaving and ducking.
Suffice to say, Spartacus, Obamacare added 2.5 trillion dollars to our debt and the Stimulus added nearly another trillion dollars to our debt at a time when we were already in a huge recession. (Never mind Pigford II, the housing scandal and several other sleazy scams by Democrats which added to our debt in the middle of a huge recession.)
If you don’t realize that that was extremely irresponsible on the part of the Democrats, mostly just to appease the sullen, surly and belligerent members of the Black Caucus and their equally irresponsible constituents, you aren’t even rational, and, therefore, there is no point in continuing this discussion.
BTW, for future reference, I’m not going to play your cutesy and senseless games with you. If you’re going to deal only in smoke, mirrors, diversions and bullshit, take a hike. From what I’ve seen here, you don’t know squat about these issues, and you just bullshit. Your ignorance is stunning.
Comment by Summit, N.J. — 8/3/2011 @ 10:54 am
JD, I think that Krauthammer puts it best:
http://thedc.com/rt5zva#ooid=Y3d2hwMjq6vZvM654VIGV-VXHyA5IrBu
And it explains some of the trollage we are seeing, as well.
I mean, Media Matters? Really?
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 10:57 am
ropelight (37)
Your quote:
Lord claims the debt deal marks such a point.
Not. Buying. It.
…and I doubt you are either, really.
Nor did the Tea Party victories burst on the scene. I know this, because I blogged about the rise of the movement and the likelihood of a big GOP wave in 2010 many, many times. I doubt Lord was ignorant of the phenomenon.
Again, there is voluminous data showing that we have not reached that dramatic moment yet. I cited a fraction of this data; Lord addresses none of it. Indeed, as another commenter suggests above, a similar piece could have been written after the 1994 midterms… and yet here we are.
And none of this is a criticism of the Tea Party (not even my comment that it’s not all that popular; doing the right thing isn’t always the popular thing). It’s a simple acknowledgment that the scope of the problem is larger and more persistent than Lord seems to believe.
Comment by Karl — 8/3/2011 @ 10:58 am
How fiscal conservatism works:
FAA impasse could cost US $1bn in lost taxes
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 10:59 am
How many grades were you held back, incidentally?
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 11:02 am
And your prescription is what? Austerity? Please show how taking an axe to govt. spending and holding the line on revenues will not simply make the economic situation worse than it already is. Please don’t bother to respond with any of the usual confidence fairy nonsense.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 11:04 am
#151 – Extraneous and irrelevant. Just more dancing.
Comment by Summit, N.J. — 8/3/2011 @ 11:05 am
There hasn’t been a reform school built that could hold our Spurty!
Comment by Icy Texan — 8/3/2011 @ 11:07 am
Exactly we need more spending honestly Spartacvs is a POS.
Comment by DohBiden — 8/3/2011 @ 11:08 am
Couldn’t agree more, thanks for having my back Summit.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 11:09 am
The president’s policies have destroyed employment in this country, and Spartacvs’ prescription is “more”. We’ve never seen a recession so slow to move to increasing employment since the Great Depression itself.
Every time I talk to a business owner, there is only one thing on their mind. How the Democrats and Obama are making it tougher for their business to survive. I’ve never heard a single business owner tell me that the Democrats have improved their climate and made it more economic to hire more employees. Not one.
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 11:11 am
An Obama scorecard…
Consider the results thus far of the Obama presidency:
1- Two million-private sector jobs have been lost.
2- Unemployment jumped from 7.8 to 9.2 percent with a simply terrible 2011 first-quarter economic growth rate of just 0.4 percent.
3- A record 1 in 7 Americans is on food stamps.
4- Gasoline prices more than doubled, from $1.83 to $3.74 per gallon.
5- National debt increased 35 percent, to $14.5 trillion, or $137,000 for each taxpayer.
6- National unfunded liabilities increased 47 percent, to $114.9 trillion, or a cool $1 million for each taxpayer (and this does not yet include Obamacare).
7- America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating.
… Dr. Milton Wolf-Washington Times
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 11:11 am
The GOP House actually passes legislation, the Senate does nothing ( not even pass an amended bill if the House version is so bad ) and Spartacvs blames the Republicans.
Comically dishonest.
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 11:12 am
In Sparticles’ world the budget of the U.S. Government and the stability of the U.S. private sector economy are inextricably linked . . . or, in his mind, should be
Comment by Icy Texan — 8/3/2011 @ 11:12 am
Spurty is now pre-emptively murdering messengers, and dismissing anything that does not tax those making over $200,00 out of hand. I think that ig we’re confiscated all earnings over $200K, we could fix everything. It seems oddly fixated on reducing the rate of growth as some kind of draconian cut. Can you imagine its wailing if there were actual cuts to anything other than defense?
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 11:12 am
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 11:04 am
Everything you advocate, and defend, has failed!
Can you not get your arms around that?
If that is the case, you are a mindless ideologue, who is incapable of reasoned thought.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 11:14 am
No, we need to stimulate demand. The US economy is almost entirely dependent on consumer demand. Tell me how to stimulate consumer demand without increased spending by the only entity capable of spending during a recession such as this to stimulate consumer demand and I’m all ears.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 11:14 am
JD, the basic numbers show that confiscating 100% of income of those over the Democrats’ “millionaire” definition ($250,000) would not close the current deficit because it is so large.
But Spartacvs just ignores this because the Democrats are so invested in the idea of punitive taxation – taxation just to punish those evil rich people – regardless of its actual practical value.
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 11:14 am
Obama’s faux stimulus not only did not “stimulate” demand, there are some interesting economic theories out there that it reduced it.
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 11:15 am
All ears and no brain
Just like our POTUS
Comment by Icy Texan — 8/3/2011 @ 11:16 am
How did Stimulus Part Uno work out?
It is nice of spurty to demonstrate how complete beholden to mother government the leftists are.
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 11:16 am
The GOP House passes legislation as easily as I passed last nights dinner this morning, pretty much all of a remarkably similar consistency too.
Smarter conservatives please.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 11:18 am
Spartacvs, your dishonesty continues. The Senate did nothing. No amended bill. Nothing.
Frankly, your brazen dishonesty got old a long time ago. You snark about smarter conservatives, but a smarter troll would be an improvement over the village retard model you emulate.
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 11:19 am
#163 – That sums it up. He would try the patience of a saint.
Comment by Summit, N.J. — 8/3/2011 @ 11:20 am
Simple question.
Why are the GOP prioritizing closing the deficit in the midst of such a deep recession?
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 11:24 am
Spvrty is just another ignorant, racist, anti-semitic, progtard troll who flatulates unoriginal debunked talking points in an effort to get people agitated. F*ck him where he breathes.
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 11:25 am
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 11:15 am
It is interesting that work by the Romer’s before she joined the Obummer Administration on govt spending contradicted the claims that she made when presenting the Stimulus Plan to the Nation, and were subsequently proved by events.
A replay of the Harding/Coolidge reaction to the Depression of ’21 would have worked much better, and we would not have had to deal with raising the debt ceiling because the govt wouldn’t have flushed $5T down the toilet.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 11:26 am
Spartacvs, why are the Democrats prioritizing increasing taxation in the midst of such a deep recession?
Do you have any idea how stupid your snark is?
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 11:27 am
Daleyrocks – this clown is a freakin schoolteacher. It is sad, and pathetic.
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 11:27 am
AD-RtR/OS, it is of a kind that Democratic economists prostitute themselves putting ideology over integrity. Paul Krugman and Cristina Romer are hardly the only examples.
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 11:28 am
Seriously? How about tax cuts? That would increase take-home pay, giving taxpayers more money to spend. More spending = increased consumer demand.
Comment by Chuck Bartowski — 8/3/2011 @ 11:30 am
As was mentioned over at InstaPundit this morning, the Congress (TEA Party) should give the Progs what they want most:
A confiscatory tax rate that applies to Millionaires (Uh, people who actually have an income of $1MM or more per annum);
after all – as Glenn commented – those people probably voted for Obama anyway, and very few people actually make that much money in real adjusted income.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 11:31 am
Nonsense, Chuck. Cite please.
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 11:32 am
Comment by Chuck Bartowski — 8/3/2011 @ 11:30 am
And, if those cuts were permanent, or very long term, it would provide stability for businesses and individuals to plan ahead.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 11:34 am
Seven months ago, the Democrats wanted to increase taxes immediately. Effective the first of Jan 2011.
They would have done it too, if not for a few moderate Democrats who realized how stupid it was and backed efforts to continue the existing tax rates.
And Spartacvs whines about what are really nonexistent spending cuts – nothing but a few symbolic cuts now and vague promises of future cuts – as some sort of apocalyptic nostrum?
The stupidity and ignorance of Spartacvs’ snark is beyond belief. How can anyone really write such stupidity with any sincerity?
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 11:37 am
“Daleyrocks – this clown is a freakin schoolteacher. It is sad, and pathetic.”
JD – It’s all a question of mind over matter. He doesn’t matter, so I don’t mind. He’s just a distraction.
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 11:46 am
#182 & #183 – Cite, please? (Geezez, it’s contagious.)
Comment by Summit, N.J. — 8/3/2011 @ 11:51 am
Summit, what do you need a cite for? You don’t remember the debate in December about the tax rates?
What the hell is going on with you?
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 11:54 am
SPQR…Please note smiley-face.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 11:58 am
#185 – Sheesh, lighten up, guy. I was joking …, you know, mocking Spartacus for his obnoxious cite, cite, cite, cite response to every comment? Oh, never mind.
Comment by Summit, N.J. — 8/3/2011 @ 12:01 pm
HotAir headline….
Geithner out, Corzine in?
I’ll be OK soon….
Hey, who took my bottle of Stoli out of the freezer?
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 12:02 pm
#81, elissa @ 9:17 am, apparently you don’t recall the first black president was a white guy from Arkansas.
Which was worse, reading Joan Walsh or Gleen? I haven’t read either one yet and I’d like to hav
Comment by ropelight — 8/3/2011 @ 12:03 pm
#81, elissa @ 9:17 am, apparently you don’t recall the first black president was a white guy from Arkansas.
Which was worse, reading Joan Walsh or Gleen? I haven’t read either one yet and I’d like to hav
Comment by ropelight — 8/3/2011 @ 12:03 pm
Summit…this is a very tough room.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 12:03 pm
Not very well and given how it was woefully insufficient and largely comprised of tax cuts unsurprising.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 12:04 pm
The hell Obama?
Corzine as a part of Otreasons Admin?
Comment by DohBiden — 8/3/2011 @ 12:04 pm
My keyboard is under the spell of a mischievous elf. But, you get my drift.
Comment by ropelight — 8/3/2011 @ 12:05 pm
Summit, my apologies for missing the joke.
Spartacvs, it was not insufficient. It was full of Democratic pork barrel and that’s not the GOP’s fault.
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 12:07 pm
I guess that would explain the Bush economic miracle which rose to fruition in 2008 then, no?
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 12:08 pm
Sprty – you are a good little leftist footsoldier. You admirabky regurgitate every bit of tripe fed you by mediamatterz and thinkregress, without even a hint of embarrassment or shame.
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 12:10 pm
Not very well and given how it was woefully insufficient and largely comprised of tax cuts unsurprising.
Evidence of an alternate reality.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 12:20 pm
#191 – Nah, I don’t think so.
Comment by Summit, N.J. — 8/3/2011 @ 12:21 pm
It does explain how the Bush administration got us out of recession in 2000-2001 far quicker than the current administration.
But there isn’t a tax cut or spending plan that would permanently eliminate cyclical recessions, and it’s sophistry and misdirection on your part to claim that a tax cut passed in 2001 would prevent a recession 7 years later. Idiot.
Actually, the reason it didn’t work very well was because it wasn’t much of a stimulus. The spending was back-loaded, and the tax cuts weren’t broad enough to get enough money into the hands of consumers.
Here’s an interesting analysis of the 2009 stimulus plan:
(This was done at 2001Q4, at which time there were more Democratic districs than Republican.)
Comment by Chuck Bartowski — 8/3/2011 @ 12:21 pm
Forgot the link to that stuff
Comment by Chuck Bartowski — 8/3/2011 @ 12:23 pm
sparty needs to look at those four graphs (if he can understand them-math is soooo hard) to see that the recovery is mired in a quagmire, unlike previous recessions dating back to 1960 that rebounded promptly without spending the country into a condition risking a credit downgrade.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 12:26 pm
I think we already discussed this in another thread. Business is sitting on their cash because they don’t like the Obama economic environment – taxes, regulations, Obamacare etc – in effect now and what’s expected in the future. Clueless moveon.org types like you are scratching their heads calling this a chicken and egg problem where business won’t spend more until consumers spend more and consumers won’t spend more until business hires more.
Comment by Gerald A — 8/3/2011 @ 12:33 pm
I know that this might be a little advanced for our fearless gladiator,
but here’s a link that – if he puts some effort into it – might make a dent in that forcefield that insulates his mind from reality…
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704679204575646994256446822.html
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 12:37 pm
Sure assumes a lot. I thought democrats were whining that companies had tons of money, so were totally capable of spending. Now they can’t spend?
The solution is really simple. Cancel Obamacare and companies will start hiring people. Make regulations and taxation predictable and stable and minimized and companies will start hiring people.
Stop borrowing so much money, inflating our currency into nothing, and people will feel safer investing.
The government cannot solve this. It can get out of the way.
Comment by Dustin — 8/3/2011 @ 12:41 pm
Spartacvs’ snark, which don’t ever arise to the coherence of talking points, show that Democrats have absolutely no idea what to do. None.
Comment by SPQR — 8/3/2011 @ 12:43 pm
The fight is so vicious since the stakes are so low…or, in this case, because they know they’ve lost.
“It’s not a matter of Life or Death, it’s much more serious than that!”
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 12:48 pm
“Tell me how to stimulate consumer demand without increased spending by the only entity capable of spending during a recession such as this to stimulate consumer demand and I’m all ears.”
Spvrty – Easy, tell Obama to stop threatening businesses and get the hell out of the way. The uncertainty overhanging the economy and business decisions is amazing. You probably have not read anything about that given the websites you frequent and TV you consume.
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 1:36 pm
Spartacvs is a part of the cracked head club Biden told us about.
Comment by DohBiden — 8/3/2011 @ 2:05 pm
what is his plan for getting the American government to live within its means?
Grow the economy.
LOL at Sparty’s goonfiction–”MONEY COMES FROM ELVES AND WORMHOLES!!”
Amazing that not one leftist who says this has any idea what industries are going to drag the employment-to-population ratio back from its 30-year lows. Probably because Obama doesn’t even know, and they can’t make an argument without parroting his statements.
Comment by Another Chris — 8/3/2011 @ 2:07 pm
largely comprised of tax cuts unsurprising
Somebody needs to inform Sparty that tax credits are not tax cuts.
Comment by Another Chris — 8/3/2011 @ 2:08 pm
I hope this becomes a common way to describe jackasses.
He doesn’t care that he’s being absurd, but there are many out there who sincerely think somehow the government can spend and spend and this will act like a perpetual motion machine on overdrive.
The truth is that more than $1 of private sector is lost to pay for government spending, and we’re charged interest to boot.
A more honest claim would be that Obama would like to stimulate the present at a known cost to the future, after his election. The reason that doesn’t work is that people are planning for this future.
Comment by Dustin — 8/3/2011 @ 2:14 pm
Just remember, the double dip recession will be all Obama’s
As they say: You bone it, you own it.
Comment by Joe spivey — 8/3/2011 @ 2:45 pm
And let’s not forget that for every dollar the US govt. borrows, is one less dollar for the private sector to borrow in order to expand their business and hire more employees.
Sheesh, I wish all these stupid Keynesians, libturds, rinoturds, and demoncraps would take a long walk on a short pier.
Comment by peedoffamerican — 8/3/2011 @ 3:04 pm
“Dave Surls didn’t appreciate my quoting Thomas Jefferson yesterday…”
Man, I must be losing what little brain I have left, because I totally don’t remember doing that! I usually like Jefferson quotations.
What the heck did I say?
Comment by Dave Surls — 8/3/2011 @ 3:22 pm
“That’s why you have to juice it up with cultural wedge issues and the overly simplistic, “no new taxes” – “drill, baby drill” type sloganeering aimed at capturing the low information segment of the electorate.”–Sparta-doofus
Sparty’s right, we need slogans that express something deep and intellectual, and that have some real content like “Hope and Change”.
Comment by Dave Surls — 8/3/2011 @ 3:27 pm
Dave – I think he was mistaken in who did not like TJ quotes.
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 3:34 pm
VeroniqueVeronica de Rugy again, that girl must be on more wingnut welfare payrolls than the great blond skank herself.Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 5:27 pm
More lotion, stat.
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 5:29 pm
“Dave – I think he was mistaken in who did not like TJ quotes.”
Man, I hope so, because if I can’t even remember what I said yesterday, that means I’ve gone from my usual state of drooling senility into full blown leftardation.
And, that’s scary.
Comment by Dave Surls — 8/3/2011 @ 5:31 pm
“Comment by Spartacvs”
Speaking of full blown leftardation.
Comment by Dave Surls — 8/3/2011 @ 5:33 pm
Ah, the confidence fairy argument.
That makes as much sense as claiming your car won’t start on a cold winters day because it’s feeling under the weather, when all it needs is a bit of choke to prime the engine with more fuel.
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 5:34 pm
#222
I missed the meaning of that one.
Anyone here speak leftardese?
I used to speak it when I was a kid, but now, for some reason, it just sounds like gibberish.
Comment by Dave Surls — 8/3/2011 @ 5:43 pm
Big ZING at 223
Comment by peedoffamerican — 8/3/2011 @ 7:16 pm
Genetic Fallacy. If there is a problem with the survey, then show where it’s incorrect. But don’t resort to ad hominem to avoid honest debate.
Comment by Chuck Bartowski — 8/3/2011 @ 7:55 pm
Game, set, match.
Economic terrorism is both a fitting and an accurate description of republican behavior during the manufactured debt crisis and now there is even an admission, by the Minority leader of the Senate
Comment by Spartacvs — 8/3/2011 @ 8:01 pm
Even Carnie thinks spurty is an imbecile.
Comment by JD — 8/3/2011 @ 8:14 pm
Economic terrorism is both a fitting and an accurate description of republican behavior during the manufactured debt crisis
Shorter Sparty: “MONEY COMES FROM ELVES AND WORMHOLES A BLOO BLOO BLOO!!!”
Comment by Another Chris — 8/3/2011 @ 8:18 pm
Note to sparty…
A “choke” does not provide the engine with more fuel, it provides the engine with less air, thereby enriching the air/fuel mixture.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 8:25 pm
Anyone here speak leftardese?
– Yes. Spartacvs does.
Comment by Icy Texan — 8/3/2011 @ 8:29 pm
Comment by Dave Surls — 8/3/2011 @ 5:31 pm
Dave, my apologies.
I misspoke.
It was SPQR that got on my case for quoting Jefferson.
But, you know how it is, you read one RW nut, you’ve read all RW nuts (Heh!).
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 8:33 pm
BOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!!!
Comment by daleyrocks — 8/3/2011 @ 8:36 pm
“Dave, my apologies.”
No big deal.
I’m just relieved that my mind isn’t totally gone.
Comment by Dave Surls — 8/3/2011 @ 10:52 pm
“But, you know how it is, you read one RW nut, you’ve read all RW nuts…”
SPQR is the smart one…I’m the pretty one.
Comment by Dave Surls — 8/3/2011 @ 10:53 pm
Personally, I love that sparticvs doesn’t know how an engine works. But he sure thinks he knows how to make it go!
Still, he is just a troll.
Comment by Simon Jester — 8/3/2011 @ 10:58 pm
Thanks for being so understanding…
and you use too much make-up.
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 8/3/2011 @ 11:29 pm
#236
Yeah, but I look great in heels.
Comment by Dave Surls — 8/3/2011 @ 11:42 pm
TEA Party nut calls for government shutdown? Ooops, nope, Washington Post columnist urging Obama to shutdown government. So much for Spartacvs’ dishonest claims about this being a “terrorist” tactic …
Comment by SPQR — 8/4/2011 @ 5:02 pm
de Rugy scares Spartacvs because she’s much much smarter and more rational than Spartacvs. Not to mention actually knows some economics principles. And can write clearly. All told, the exact opposite of Spartacvs.
Comment by SPQR — 8/4/2011 @ 5:03 pm