Patterico's Pontifications


Gunrunner Update

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 11:27 am

A lot of big developments have happened in the scandal.

Our first story is four days old. (Sorry, I’ve been busy.) Kenneth Melson, the acting director of the ATF, looks like he’s not going gentle into that good night. He appears to be ready to rage against the dying of the light of truth, and is apparently turning state’s evidence and becoming a whistleblower:

In a blockbuster development in the Operation Fast & Furious gun-running scandal, Acting ATF Director Kenneth Melson secretly testified before House and Senate investigators on July 4 with his own personal lawyer present, former United States Attorney Richard Cullen, without the knowledge of the ATF or the Department of Justice. . . . Melson’s revelations raise even more serious issues not only about the operation itself, but about apparent attempts by the Justice Department to mislead Congress on the details of the operation.

Contrary to the Justice Department’s denials, according to Melson, ATF agents specifically witnessed transfers of weapons from straw purchasers to third parties without taking any further action. Melson claimed that it was not until the public disclosure of the operation that he personally reviewed the “hundreds of documents” related to the case. He said he became “sick to his stomach” when he learned the full story. Even more shocking is that some of the “gun trafficking ‘higher-ups’ that the ATF sought to identify were already known to other agencies and may even have been paid as informants” by agencies such as the FBI and the DEA.

Melson provided detailed information and documents to the Office of the Deputy Attorney General at the Justice Department. But that information was not given to Congress by then-Acting Deputy Attorney General James Cole. In fact, “Melson was not allowed to communicate to Congress” and “Justice Department officials directed [ATF’s senior leadership] not to respond and took full control of replying to briefing and document requests from Congress.” According to the letter Issa and Grassley sent to Holder, it was “two days after [Melson] told [Cole] about serious issues involving lack of information sharing” that the Wall Street Journal suddenly reported that Melson was about to be ousted by the Obama administration.

Meanwhile, a recently captured leader of the Zetas cartel says that, yeah, most of our weapons came from the U.S. Why, he adds, they were actually coming from the U.S. Government!

Meanwhile Thursday, Mexican police released a videotaped interview of Jesus Enrique Rejon Aguilar, in which the recently captured No. 3 leader of the Los Zetas drug cartel said “all the weapons” the Zetas use were “bought in the United States” and that “even the American government itself was selling the weapons.”

I will add that it appears to be commonly accepted that a Gunrunner weapon was found, not just at the murder scene for Border Patrol agent Brian Terry, but also at the scene of Customs Enforcement Agent Jaime Zapata:

At least three of those weapons, including two AK-47 assault rifles, later were found at the site of separate shootings that claimed the lives of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agent Jaime Zapata, who was killed by Rejon Aguilar’s Zetas, and U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian A. Terry.

Those of you with long memories might remember back to March 4, when that possible connection was made on my blog (due to a tip from a perceptive reader). Back then, it seemed like only a possibility. Now, it appears solid.

Always trust content from Patterico.

Legal Insurrection had a good post yesterday showing how Obama, at the same time he was trying to ban the sale of certain weapons, was presiding over an administration that was actively forcing gun dealers to sell those very same weapons to straw purchasers for Mexican cartels.

I believe that, with the debriefing of Melson, we will learn much more about DoJ’s knowledge of the operation, and the strongarm regulatory tactics used by the ATF to force gun dealers to participate in these unwise transactions.

Again: always trust content from Patterico.

The takeaway news of the day: Allen West says Obama must remove Eric Holder, or be seen as complicit in this operation.

UPDATE: New gunrunning scandal involving walking guns into Honduras?

78 Responses to “Gunrunner Update”

  1. Who knew that Obama and Holder were plants from the NRA?
    Wayne, how could you do this?

    AD-RtR/OS! (25274b)

  2. Honduras, too? Sheesh. First the Obama Administration unfairly tarred the Honduran democratic government for ousting former President Zelaya, then it suspended aid to Honduras, and now this? Apparently the Obama Administration really hates Honduras.

    DRJ (fdd243)

  3. I have two questions that need to be asked:

    In regards to Operation Fast and Furious, What did President Obama know and when did he know it?

    evilned (ba4725)

  4. respectfully ask
    where is my free machinegun?
    colonel want to know

    ColonelHaiku (f2ed50)

  5. I’m sure it’s all secret, the only one who knew anything was George W Bush.

    ” Mendez Vargas was, in essence, already out of the criminal organization known as La Familia for several months now. After the death of his predecessor, Nazario Moreno, aka El Chayo, last December, members of La Familia rejected Mendez Vargas as their new leader. The drug cartel lieutenants suspected that he was working for the U.S. Government, and in fact, he turned out to be the point man for the BATF’s notorious drug-running program known as ‘Operation Fast and Furious.’ Mendez Vargas’ organization purchased (from BATF agents) a .50 caliber Barrett rifle that shot down a Mexican Federal Police helicopter last month in his neighborhood in Apatzingan, Michoacán. His neighborhood is, coincidently, next to a military base.”

    SiliconDoc (7ba52b)

  6. Apparently the Obama Administration really hates Honduras.

    Comment by DRJ — 7/10/2011 @ 11:48 am

    It’s a sad development. It’s that first glance into the water, where you realize that this little chunk of ice is actually the tip of the iceberg. How many decades will we be finding guns all over the world that can be traced back to Eric Holder’s decisions.

    At this point, I think it’s perfectly fair to lay this at his feet.

    If any nation were arming MS 13 in LA, we’d consider it an act of war. Obama knows he can get away with it because the USA is so powerful. He’s the bully the left pretended Bush 43 was.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  7. the huffing of paint
    manifests it’s ill effects
    in sillycon doc

    ColonelHaiku (f2ed50)

  8. Still smarting poem boy ? You’re pathetic.

    SiliconDoc (7ba52b)

  9. Dustin,

    Just a thought, do you think he was even aware of it? He doesn’t seem to be too aware of anything else.

    Not an excuse, in fact probably even more damning, buck stops here and all that.

    labcatcher (7c7733)

  10. Sockpuppets “O-mah” and “The Rhodesian” were both dancing to SiliconDoc’s tune. They may all be one and the same drooling troll.

    ropelight (78f846)

  11. O’s fierce insistence
    higher taxes are needed
    is beyond bizarre

    ColonelHaiku (f2ed50)

  12. if anyone think
    O not know what Holder does
    I got bridge to sell

    ColonelHaiku (f2ed50)

  13. Patrick

    good to see you on this. i had been hearing different things about it, but i kind of felt you took ownership of it early on and so i was hoping you could pick up with it.

    Aaron Worthing (73a7ea)

  14. I think the president’s approval ratings might tick up a point or two if he fired Holder. Lots of prominent people and citizens on both sides of the aisle are not too keen on Holder, I think. From gunrunner, to Gitmo closing fiasco, to suing sovereign states, to trying terrorists as common criminals, to dropping black panther voter intimidation investigation, etc. etc. etc.–all roads lead to Holder and the Justice Dept.

    elissa (26a465)

  15. elissa – I have to wonder how Eric Holder is feeling, as he realises that he has been set up as our First Occupant’s sacrificial house “progressive” ?

    Alasdair (205079)

  16. Nice summary.

    Is it all right (some bloggers don’t like it) if I link it on my facebook page?

    Dianna (f12db5)

  17. Big Ears Obama sat in Reverend Wright’s church for 20 years and didn’t have a clue the odious Wright was preaching religious bigotry and racial hatred. Never heard a discouragin’ word.

    Later on, out of a clear blue sky, Obama’s AG Eric Holder announced a NY city trial for KSM and never cleared it with his boss, Holder said he make the decision all by his lonesome. Can you believe it?

    And lettin’ those dirty Black Panther voter intimidaters go with a slap on the wrist while investigating the daylights out of anyone who finds himself in the PC cross-hairs for doing his job. That’s not as unbelievable now as it was a couple years ago.

    So, now we find out the federal agency assigned the task of controlling dangerous guns and explosives (ATFE) suddenly starts using taxpayer money from Obama’s Stimulus program to buy hundreds and hundreds of exceptionally powerful firearms so Mexican drug smugglers can kill American law enforcement officers more efficiently. And where was President Obama?

    Playin’ golf and lookin’ the other way pretendin’ he don’t know nothin’ about nothin’. B’rer fox, he lay low.

    ropelight (78f846)

  18. Regular daytime TV programming was displaced by real time coverage of the Iran-Contra hearings for days. There was little cable or possible viewing to be had beyond the alphabet networks. As a result most of America had at least a passing acquaintance with Oliver North, Fawn Hall, and the outline of Iran-Contra including Reagan’s involvement (limited as it was).

    Will the same thing happen with Operation Fast and Furious? Ha. It will be a fight to get the message on this travesty out to America– especially with the administration putting up barricades at all possible points of private and congressional inquiry to try to cover their direct involvement and malfeasance on this.

    Brian Terry and Jaime Zapata deserve to be household names so much more so than Casey Anthony.

    elissa (26a465)

  19. Someone should take down that info about Miss KKKleo, even if semenliKKKer is one of the most mendoucheous of twatwaffles, suffering from PRE-traumatic stress disorder, gender-bending, and imaginary war hero kids. Still, shouldn’t put their personal info on here.

    JD (b98cae)

  20. Don’t know the details, JD, but your advice is sound.

    Simon Jester (6ea1ed)

  21. From the moment I heard of this, on the CBS Evening News, I suspected that corruption has to be the explanation for this. I don’t see any other logical explanation for this. the justification is too flimsy. The flaws too obvious..

    I would be very surprised if there is a non-corrupt explanation for the existence of Operation Fast & Furious. I feel this way very strongly.


    Now who was bribed and how, I don’t know enough at this stage. I think it might be researched though.

    Oh, look at this:\

    We’ve got an allegation here both of longstanding and pervasive corruption and media ignoring of that.

    That’s only from 2009 – we need things going back earlier.

    Of course the allegation there is that they want to find innocent people guilty. But when a police agency tries to make innocent people guilty, it’s probably only because they are trying to cover up (by making many cases or maybe some bog highly publicized cases) the fact that they are actually trying to make guilty people innocent, or save them from jail by letting them become informants.

    Because that’s where the money would be coming from. Helping the guilty, not persecuting the innocent.

    I doubt very much though that this was some kind of political decision by the Obama Administration to prove guns go to Mexico, especially since this started well before he as President.

    I don’t care if some political appointees weren’t smart enough or confident enough to shut this down right away – they didn’t originate it and most people lack confidence in their own common sense.

    Now I don’t rule out that maybe some corruption extended even to higher level temporary political appointees, but I would look at people who had careers in the BATF or any other agency involved, as the key individuals in this thing.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3de3a)

  22. President Obama has left himself some wiggle room,

    “My attorney general has made clear that he certainly would not have ordered gun running to be able to pass through into Mexico. … I’m not going to comment on — a on a current investigation. I’ve made very clear my views that that would not be an appropriate step by the ATF, and we’ve got to find out how that happened.”

    Mr. Obama added, “As soon as the investigation is completed, I think appropriate actions will be taken.”

    Dana (4eca6e)

  23. ___________________________________________

    Why, he adds, they were actually coming from the U.S. Government!

    Quite ironic that such subterfuge is coming from an ultra-liberal like Eric Holder and his ilk. After all, they are closely affiliated with communities where conspiracy theories run rampant. I’m referring to the rather high percentage of people in black America who, based on surveys, believe the government is always scheming to cause a 9-11, or to foster the inundation of narcotics in the inner city, or to do any number of tricky, underhanded things.

    So if such people — virtually all of the left — observe that someone like Eric Holder is no less into (if not even more into) underhanded tactics, will they suddenly rationalize away or discount their paranoia or will they really go off the deep end when it comes to their suspicions?

    Mark (411533)

  24. SiliconDoc, I know you were being sarcastic, but I’ve already seen many administration shills and sockpuppets out in the blogs trying to repeat the administration’s false claims that this was all Bush’s idea.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  25. My cynical theory is that people at BATFE actually hate civilian firearm ownership. By forcing these guns to be sold to criminals the BATFE folks knew those particular arms would never again appear in the legitimate market. So what if a few cops get killed, the folks approving the sales haven’t been in the field in years and so are almost certainly safe.

    Soronel Haetir (29fbb7)

  26. yes back in the day
    colonel declare a chubwa
    on luscious fawn Hall

    ColonelHaiku (f2ed50)

  27. Fawn Hall had colonel
    googoo over IranGate
    until Donna Rice

    ColonelHaiku (f2ed50)

  28. There are only two choices here. Holder and Obama either didn’t know anything rendering them too incompetent to “lead” or they knew exactly what was going on and are doing what they do best; lie to save their own asses.

    GoodGrief (786412)

  29. Another reporter chimes in. Per Tim King:

    Attorney General Eric Holder at the Mexico/United States Arms Trafficking Conference in CUERNAVACA, MEXICO Thursday, April 2, 2009:

    “Last week, our administration launched a major new effort to break the backs of the cartels. My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner, DEA is adding 16 new positions on the border, as well as mobile enforcement teams, and the FBI is creating a new intelligence group focusing on kidnapping and extortion. DHS is making similar commitments, as Secretary Napolitano will detail.”

    Eric Holder gave false info in sworn testimony to a Congressional Committee last May about ATF operations tied to the deaths of two U.S. Agents;

    Holder openly proclaimed his connection to the operation in April 2009 during a publicized speech in Mexico, then told a Congressional Committee in May 2011, “I probably heard of Fast and Furious the first time in the last few weeks.”

    So Holder bragged about Operation Gunrunner, but never heard of its spawn Operation Fast and Furious? I guess it depends on what the meaning of “is” is.

    The linked article also quotes the section of the porkulus that funded Gunrunner. House GOP must be breathing yet another big sigh of relief they all voted against it.

    elissa (26a465)

  30. What was the purpose behind selling the guns to the Mexican cartel? We should, however, be giving them bullets for free at 2,750 ft/s.

    Who exactly were we hoping to bring charges against in Mexico?

    Wasn’t all of this happening while the Obama administration was going on and on about how the Cartels were getting their guns from the US?

    Johnny 5 is alive (5ccc5e)

  31. Just a thought, do you think he was even aware of it? He doesn’t seem to be too aware of anything else.

    Not an excuse, in fact probably even more damning, buck stops here and all that.

    Comment by labcatcher — 7/10/2011 @ 12:30 pm

    Holder? yes. Obama? I think he knew, though I have no way to prove it.

    He’s not dumb. He’s not good at actual leadership, but he’s actually very good at cynical politics. This isn’t leadership… it’s extraordinary political activism meant to create the argument for gun control.

    Either way, as you note, it’s Obama’s fault. This is his administration. If he was too busy with his golf putter to realize his administration was arming killers to shoot federal agents and innocent Mexicans, that’s still the scandal of the century.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  32. When Bo finally makes Holder walk the plank, I can just see the Andrea Mitchell’s of the world telling us rubes how decisive our hero president is and how lucky we are to have such a man at the helm. Remember their first job is to get this guy re-elected.

    BT (74cbec)

  33. Over on Rantburg is a good article on the subject, from the guns into Mexico issue to Holder’s BS testilying. And, afaik, it’s a locally done article by a nowhere paper (sorry, guys) with no reference that I could see to a bigger paper’s article, or to a wire service. If they can do it themselves, anybody can, if they wish.

    Richard Aubrey (cafc94)

  34. question Bush judgment
    I question O’s character
    something rotten there

    ColonelHaiku (f2ed50)

  35. Is there enough to impeach Holder?

    Milhouse (2e50ab)

  36. If he throws Holder under the bus, who’s going to drive?

    “Operation Castaway”? WTF? Which South American el Presidente does he think he is?

    htom (412a17)

  37. Elissa, Thank you for that link!!!

    So Operation “Fast and Furious” was in the stimulis bill – by name… mmmm, I wonder who the sponsers were?

    cap'n john's nephew (28dda5)

  38. #36, either Fidel Castro or Hugo Chavez, take your pick, but my hope is he’s another Salvador Allende.

    ropelight (78f846)

  39. I think the least that happens here is Holder is shown the door. Though, nothing would surprise me when it comes to this administration. Maybe he will replace Joe Doh as Obama’s new running mate!

    Noodles (3681c4)

  40. 36) Actually Correa, the Ecuadorian demagogue, who is of the same ilk, but not as hectoring as Chavez
    or as plebeian as Morales.

    ian cormac (d380ce)

  41. #30, Dustin, you bring up a valid point; if Obama was unaware of Fast and Furious, that is the real scandal as he is not on control of his own Attorney General. But tell me, would you be surprised to learn that Obama is simply a figurehead and doesn’t really make important decisions and has his string pulled by those like Eric Holder and Valerie Jarrett? Why does Holder have so much power that he can dismiss an already won case against the New Black Panthers, the decision to try KSM in New York and now Fast and Furious? Could it be that we have a president whose only talent is campaigning and not being president?

    Now, here is another question for you; if you murdered a Border Patrol Agent (Brian Terry) would you leave your guns behind? It is being reported that the Border Patrol had three illegals in custody in the Agent Terry murder, but the FBI came in (due to the murder of a federal agent) and turned the three loose. We already know that Melson told Issa and Grassley that the FBI was involved, paying gunrunners, that ATF was trying to capture.

    I really don’t care if Obama knew about Fast and Furious, or not. The buck stops at his desk and Holder works for him, not the other way around.

    The problem with this is that the MFM is not going to cover it. The leftwing networks know this is a potential bombshell laying on the Resolution Desk.

    retire05 (c9c4f2)

  42. @ cap’n john’s nephew,

    So which administration official put the Gunrunner money in the stimulus? Which congressman insisted on this deadliest of earmarks?

    The original Southwest Border Violence Reduction Act of 2009 was sponsored by Rep. Ciro Rodriguez, D-Texas. Rodriguez’s co-sponsors were two other Texans, Henry Cuellar and Silvestre Reyes, plus Eliot Engel, D-N.Y., and Harry Teague, D-N.M.

    If President Obama really didn’t know about Operation Gunrunner (even in part), then that would also point to him not knowing what was in the humongous Stimulus Bill that he pushed on us.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  43. Actually who was running the Fast and Furious, in Arizona, the US Attorney, and long time aide to Napolitano, going back to he time as Arizona Atty,
    General, and previously DHS advisor.

    ian cormac (d380ce)

  44. This border scandal truly would be a wonderful opportunity for Obama to finally jettison both Holder and Napolitano. Each has a terrible media presence. Neither thinks or speaks well in unscripted situations. Each in his/her own way has been a slow yet humongous drain on the Obama administration’s reputation. The terrorist trial business and the TSA madness have justly received bi-partisan scorn.

    We’re stuck with Barry for a while. But surely there are people who could do better than these two buffoons

    elissa (26a465)

  45. You know if the guns are going to Honduras it is to arm Obama’s communist buddies against the government. Honduras should make that exact complaint to the UN and see what action they take. It will be instructive.

    j curtis (af76df)

  46. Thank you Dana,

    I sent the link that Elissa provided, along with some quotes from the article, in an email to my friends. Doctors, lawyers, business owners, plumbers, carpenters, engineers, and factory workers.

    It is hard to explain exactly how I feel right now, but anger is part of it, along with deep sadness for the families of those who have been killed by those monsters. But, I will tell you this; my email has been ringing steadily, and I can see I am not alone in these feelings.

    So when you take some time to enjoy the night air – listen. You will hear the baying of hounds in the distance. They are comming.

    Are you aware of the results of the Canadian elections this past May? THAT is change we can hope for.

    cap'n john's nephew (28dda5)

  47. On March 24, 2009, David Ogden, who works directly under Eric Holder, gave a presser outlining new enhanced forces in Operation Gunrunner. The next month, Eric Holder, in a speech he gave in Mexico, spoke of Operation Gunrunner.

    The Honduras action is interesting because the Honduran president Zelaya was ousted in June of the same year. At the time, I thought it odd that Obama took the side of a man who was ousted by the Honduran Congress according to their constitution. Not only did Obama side with Zelaya, he sided with Hugo Chavez re: Honduras. Hillary Clinton even went so far as to tell tiny Honduras that unless they reinstated Zelaya, there would be no more foreign aid from the U.S. At the time, all the media was talking about was the vast amount of money Zelaya seemed to have stashed in another country.

    Tell me, how did those weapons get passed the Honduran government? It was not like some illegal just walked them back across the border the same way he entered the U.S. Did Obama have an agreement with Zelaya? Did the Administration pay Zelaya to look the other way as weapons were being routed into Honduras and into the hands of MS-13 and MS-18 which had by then a reported 70,000 members in Honduras? Honduras was already complaining that the Mexican drug cartels were there and recruiting to MS-13 and MS-18.

    This spider web is gathering more strands by the day.

    Oh, and Rodriquez, Cuellar and Reyas are all Democrats. Rodriquez was defeated last November by Canseco, a Republican.

    retire05 (c9c4f2)

  48. Regarding the Texas and New Mexico Democrats who sponsored the Gunrunner funding legislation, the House version of the Southwest Border Violence Reduction Act of 2009 was filed on 1/14/2009. Thus, I assume the funding was intended to support the existing Gunrunner program started by the Bush Administration. The Bush Administration’s Project Gunrunner was a weapons interdiction program, not a gunwalking program. According to the linked ATF Fact Sheet, Project Gunrunner implemented the eTrace program in both the US and Mexico (designed to track seized weapons), as well as education programs for licensed gun dealers (to help them avoid selling to straw purchasers and traffickers).

    Apparently in early 2009, the Obama Administration converted Gunrunner from interdiction to gunwalking. In fact, Attorney General Eric Holder may have pinpointed when the Obama Administration changed the program to gunwalking in an April 2, 2009, speech in Cuernavaca, Mexico:

    Last week, our administration launched a major new effort to break the backs of the cartels. My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner, DEA is adding 16 new positions on the border, as well as mobile enforcement teams, and the FBI is creating a new intelligence group focusing on kidnapping and extortion. DHS is making similar commitments, as Secretary Napolitano will detail.

    But as today’s conference has emphasized, the problem of arms trafficking will not be stopped at the border alone. Rather, as our experts emphasized, this is a problem that must be met as part of a comprehensive attack against the cartels – an attack in depth, on both sides of the border, that focuses on the leadership and assets of the cartel. This is the type of full-bore, prosecution-driven approach that the U.S. Department of Justice took to dismantle La Cosa Nostra – once the most powerful organized crime group operating in the United States.

    What interests me is that he seems to be saying the goal is to prosecute drug cartels out of business which, if true, is similar to the approach Holder wanted to take with terrorists and Guantanamo.

    DRJ (fdd243)

  49. Good point about Obama and Zelaya, retire05.

    DRJ (fdd243)

  50. What did Honduras and Great Britain do to Barcky?

    JD (318f81)

  51. They told Obama it was a good idea to bow alot to other world leaders…..

    EricPWJohnson (2921b6)

  52. DRJ,

    “Apparently the Obama Administration really hates Honduras.”

    No worries. Honduras really hates the Obama Administration too. 😉

    MarkJ (5cbdfb)

  53. It seems to me that Holder’s focus on prosecution is consistent with what Gunrunner became under the Obama Administration. Prosecutions don’t happen until after crimes have been committed. Thus, perhaps the Obama Administration did not want to interdict weapons and prevent Mexican crime. Instead, what if they wanted to flood Mexico and the border states with weapons so they could prosecute people who used the guns to commit crimes? Add to that the possibility violence and prosecutions might turn American public opinion against gun dealers/sales and it could seem like a win-win to the Obama Administration.

    DRJ (fdd243)

  54. Heh. That’s probably true, MarkJ.

    DRJ (fdd243)

  55. This is so cool.

    ‘Cause I always wanted to live in a country where the government HELPED drug gangs obtain weapons.

    Dave Surls (3e67a2)

  56. We’re stuck with Barry for a while. But surely there are people who could do better than these two buffoons

    You would think so, but I wouldn't be so sure. And even if there are more capable folks available do you really think they would want to put up with the current D.C. environs? It may be landfill but the swamp remains unabated.

    Soronel Haetir (29fbb7)

  57. Comment by DRJ — 7/10/2011 @ 8:47 pm

    No, all of this was an attempt to provide data backing up their assertion that the easy availability of guns in America was the cause of the violence in Mexico.
    Ergo, shut down the commercial sale of guns in the U.S., and Mexican violence would subside and could be dealt with.
    First, they would implement a National Registration scheme (such as the previously announced requirement that multiple sales of long-guns by FFL’s along the SW Border must be reported to the ATF – then expand this, by Executive Order, to all FFL’s nation-wide for all sales);
    Second, an ATF requirement that all Private-Party Sales be conducted through FFL’s (which is the system here in CA), which can then be expanded to require that all of these sales by reported to ATF in real-time;
    Third, an implementation of some form of rationing such as CA’s one-hundgun per month restriction, but on all gun sales;
    Fourth, an implementation (again by EO) in some form of DiFi’s restriction on “arsenals” (ie: more than X guns, and more than XX rounds of ammo);
    …you can see where this is going – eventually, it would lead to a bill in Congress repealing the 2nd-A: For the Children!

    AD-RtR/OS! (25274b)

  58. #24 SPQR – Sure is surreal to try to blame Bush for this.

    The whole thing makes me wonder who was really pulling the strings and why in the entire matter. Seems to me some bad apples are in that mix – from the O.admin trying to crank down on domestic gun laws to likely drug trafficking + payola for it, to whom knows what else with the admins idea on borders.
    Looks to be 3 or 4 bad apple corruption picks to choose from.

    SiliconDoc (7ba52b)

  59. To evilned
    Go to
    to find out who knew what and when

    sharyl (f86e3e)

  60. link not working, sorry
    Go to c-span 3-24-09 for full report

    sharyl (f86e3e)

  61. I’m shaking my head at a Party that went to such twised lengths to inteerfere since Eisenhower, our sending arms to central and south america that is now sending arms to central and south america


    Didnt someone somewhere finally speak up and say – this is a really really stupid idea – the fact – to me – that no one did – must mean to my little mind that it must have come from the very top

    EricPWJohnson (a60276)


    ian cormac (d380ce)

  63. @retire05

    Your point may explain Shill’s approach in March.;contentBody

    cap'n john's nephew (28dda5)

  64. AD,

    I acknowledged in my last sentence that tying American guns to Mexican violence could be the Administration’s motivation. I’m also wondering whether there was more than one motivation for gunwalking.

    DRJ (fdd243)

  65. DRJ, some obvious motivations based on past ATF behavior include simply self-aggrandizement. The ATF is perennially trying to find that big media showboat that will put them in the news. They are an extremely political agency.

    And I think its pretty obvious that the administration and the ATF intended to use the faked results on this op to “justify” more regulations on FFL’s. Despite the fact that the ATF had to coerce FFL’s to cooperate with these illegal sales.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  66. SPQR,

    I can see ATF’s ego as a factor but, frankly, I think this goes above the ATF. That’s why I’m thinking about the motivations of people higher in the Administration — e.g., Holder, Napolitano, and even Obama. Obama and Holder are both lawyers so I suspect they tend to solve problems with legal solutions, like prosecutions.

    DRJ (fdd243)

  67. I guess Napolitano is a lawyer, too, but she never sounds like one to me.

    In any event, they all also approach governing from the perspective of political activists, so the prime motivation may well have been to tar gun dealers and guns in general.

    DRJ (fdd243)

  68. DRJ, the greatest disasters in law enforcement in this country can usually be traced to ATF’s attempts at self-aggrandisement. E.g., Waco, Ruby Ridge.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  69. It’s called a “trained incapacity” lawyers see the legal options and just don’t think to look much further because they already have a solution.

    ropelight (a1fbb3)

  70. DRJ, as you suspect, and as we will eventually have proof of, this was an Administration smoke-screen to delegitimize the 2nd-Amendment, and to demonize all who support and believe in it.
    All you have to do is look back to the Community Organizer in Chief’s tenure as head of the local Annenberg Project with his best bud Billy Ayers, which funneled quite a bit of cash to the Joyce Foundation, which is rabidly anti-gun rights, to see where his sympathies, and proclivities, lie.

    AD-RtR/OS! (53cd3a)

  71. I think that’s true, AD, but it’s interesting to me how politicians rationalize what they do. I think they rationalized this as a long-term solution to two problems: The international problem of Mexican violence and what they consider the major domestic problem of American guns.

    The Administration must have known Mexican and border state citizens would die as a result of this policy but they don’t seem to care. It’s an odd government that cares less about protecting American citizens than it cares about protecting oilfield lizards.

    DRJ (fdd243)

  72. DRJ, wonderful to see your posts. But remember that part of Teh Narrative is that everything about nature is good, and everything about Western Civilization is bad.

    Thus, oilfield lizards (and I like that expression) are more important than oilfield workers. I just wish that the Left would be up front about this, like that sociopath Peter Singer has been. Then, at least, we know the agenda.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  73. Well, DRJ, all of those out-of-work roustabouts in the oil-patch can surely sympathize with the farmers with parched fields in the San Joaquin Valley due to the Delta Smelt – but those farmers didn’t need any oil products since they can’t farm anyway. And now that the people in the oil-patch are out of work, they’re spared having to pay those increased costs for foodstuffs.

    AD-RtR/OS! (53cd3a)

  74. Time to start impeachment proceedings against Holder?

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  75. “We told you so”: New BATFE rules for border states announced. If this goes on….

    htom (412a17)

  76. htom, they have no statutory authority for those rules. So I expect to see them challenged.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  77. Obama and Holder need to be slapped.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

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