Patterico's Pontifications

6/28/2011

#Weinergate: Thin Line Between Wolfe & Reid

Filed under: General — Stranahan @ 5:14 pm



[Guest Post by Lee Stranahan]

@AG_Conservative sent me the following DM that he says was with Dan Wolfe aka PatriotUSA76.

DWP6776: Truth not all out yet. Gennette is lying. People shouldn’t back off that. There is MUCH MUCH more there with her and Weiner.

If someone calls Weiner’s bluff or her bluff & were to say they know of DMs in existence that prove they had relationship. It would come out

Let’s put it this way. DMs exist. Relationship existed. Gennette lying. She is not one of 6. She is MORE than 6 because there are 6 PLUS.

Right. But it would crack a big part of this. She knows DMs exist. Weiner knows too. If someone were to say "We know they exist they will come out." then Gennette and/or Weiner would crack. They do exist. I am right on this.

Here’s a screen capture of the conversation – ask yourself; why does @PatriotUSA76 know this info that would later be revealed by JohnReid9? Come to think of it, that’s not really a tough question is it?

– Lee Stranahan

113 Responses to “#Weinergate: Thin Line Between Wolfe & Reid”

  1. What seems so ironic to me is the whole Jenny/Nikki thing in the context of Ginger Lee. I mean that Jenna Jameson and Nikki Tyler were best friends and roommates at one time and appeared together in some films. Almost like it’s a porn actress convention or something.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  2. Alternate title: the thin line between Gennette and Weiner

    Tutu (54ce64)

  3. I’m a journalist and I always thought Gennette knows way, way, way more than she’s telling. She’s probably too young to realize that the truth will come out- with or without her assistance.

    Victoria (7b01cb)

  4. It’s funny that Nikki seems to think she’s trapped Gennette.
    And Gennette seemed to think she was trapping Nikki.

    Weiner got outed by their little game, so I’m not sure who won.

    MayBee (081489)

  5. If there’s one thing we should’ve learned from this whole shitshow it’s that anyone claiming to have DM’s among the principals who is unable or unwilling to produce them is probably not worth addressing. Not that he’s lying, but he has ZERO credibility to his claims because he has ZERO proof. It’s the way of the world.
    If GNC was lying throughout this entire episode I definitely do want to know it, but phantom DM’s mentioned by a sock aren’t worth crap.

    Lincolntf (85daa5)

  6. Weiner followed and unfollowed Nikki very quickly.
    He also followed and unfollowed Ethel very quickly at one point.

    Was he really very interested in just having friendly chats with women? Are there any followers of his who have come forward to say–Oh yeah, we DMed about politics all the time! And he never got nasty!

    MayBee (081489)

  7. == then Gennette and/or Weiner would crack ==

    I’ve given this a few minutes to think about, but I don’t get what “crack” means in this context unless it was written prior to his resignation. Do you know when the message on your screen capture was written?

    elissa (2eec7e)

  8. Weiner got outed by their little game, so I’m not sure who won.

    No one has, or will, win. That some are still working so hard to derail progress and muddy up the waters only shows that this entire debacle is far more serious and far-reaching than what any of us originally imagined. The porn comment at #1 is interesting…

    Dana (4eca6e)

  9. ==Weiner got outed by their little game==

    Do you think he considers himself collateral damage?

    elissa (2eec7e)

  10. What attracted Nikki to Gennette? Gennette says she gave a bogus reason.
    The other two people we know Nikki followed had publicly mentioned DMing Weiner– Ginger Lee and Ethel. As far as I know, Gennette never publicly tweeted that she DMed with Weiner. She did call him her “boyfriend”.
    Did Nikki follow other mutual followers of Weiner?

    MayBee (081489)

  11. Weiner got outed by their little game, so I’m not sure who won.

    Comment by MayBee

    Breitbart? I know he wasn’t playing, but he seems to have walked off with all the chips.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  12. Writing style matches Reid’s. The unnecessarily assertive clauses after certain points, the insistence not to doubt him, and bitterness toward Gennette.

    From above: “They do exist. I am right on this.”

    In response to me the other night: “I think so far I’ve been fair. No need for this.”

    It’s not a phrasing many of us would use once, let alone the tone of authority he exercises with people he has no authority over. I am right. No need to doubt this.

    See what I mean ?

    Crispian (70c05e)

  13. These were communicated on 6/6. I believe that is right after the admission, but before the resignation.

    AG_Conservative (dd3930)

  14. The porn comment is interesting.
    The first conversations Nikki had (that we can see) were with Ginger Lee and, I believe, another porn actress.

    MayBee (081489)

  15. And why is it that both Gennette and John Reid don’t just write down everything they know? They are more than happy to keep this alive by answering some questions, but you only proceed in that fashion if you are trying to hide the truth.

    Tutu (54ce64)

  16. #14 Tutu, I think they’re trying to extract information (or at least get a sense of what people know and believe), not give it.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  17. She’s probably too young to realize that the truth will come out- with or without her assistance.

    She’s had several people here try to get that point across. Either she doesn’t believe us or she refuses to deal with reality because it is just too scary.

    But it would crack a big part of this. She knows DMs exist. Weiner knows too. If someone were to say “We know they exist they will come out.” then Gennette and/or Weiner would crack. They do exist. I am right on this.

    Ok, for the moment, lets accept your theory: JR =Jenny = Patriot. What is Jenny/JR/Patriot’s (I’m still out on this one) motive for contacting conservative tweeters/bloggers/media and urging them to get GC and Weiner to brea? If this is Jenny in MA, a liberal – what does she hope to accomplish by bringing Weiner down? Are we are back to the rejected lover or the future democratic political opponent’s (for Mayor) operative idea?

    bmertz (d77c52)

  18. No one goes through such a massive attempt to cover their tracks, their identities, and their actions unless its exposure would have extraordinary consequences and serious fallout. This is far more than just pics of Little Anthony and his dirty DMs.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  19. bmertz,

    I’m still skeptical about this Jenny person. All these puppety people keep putting themselves out there (contrary to their own interests/privacy) but do nothing but tease. Perhaps it is a man infatuated with Weiner, knowing he can’t have him, so nobody can.

    Of course, we’re waiting on the machinations of criminal investigations into the various threats out there…

    Crispian (70c05e)

  20. Has anyone checked to see who always seems to be online and tweeting at exactly the same times of day? Did any of the socks tweet another sock and NOT get an immediate response?

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  21. The really frustrating thing is I can see neither rhyme nor reason to all this frantic activity.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  22. Y’all wonder how many of us might be sock puppets? Whether everyone talking about this is actually orchestrating it? It really is that insane to try to make sense of.

    Crispian (70c05e)

  23. Y’all wonder how many of us might be sock puppets? Whether everyone talking about this is actually orchestrating it? It really is that insane to try to make sense of.

    Comment by Crispian

    Excelsior! We can reach a higher state of paranoia!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  24. Y

    ’all wonder how many of us might be sock puppets? Whether everyone talking about this is actually orchestrating it? It really is that insane to try to make sense of.

    Ok, now you are creeping me out

    bmertz (d77c52)

  25. I wish I had a whiteboard handy. This is getting tangled up again

    bmertz (d77c52)

  26. Truth is, I’m Anthony Wiener.

    Explains a lot.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  27. I knew it!!!

    bmertz (d77c52)

  28. Yeah, you’d have figured it out sooner, but they don’t let me posts pictures in my comments anymore.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  29. Oh, criminy. I just realized (slow on the uptake, here) that goatsred was (if Wolfe and Nikki/Marianela are all the same person) in the middle, the selected goat.

    Gah!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  30. Haha

    Me: http://tinyurl.com/3tr3tt9

    Crispian (70c05e)

  31. ….and why did Patriot pick out Genette, and not some of the other hot young girls Weiner followed? He picked out Ginger (pay dirt), genette (paydirt), star(himself?), and Ethel. Why not other?

    Hey- what is ginger’s real name?

    MayBee (081489)

  32. Maybee, her name is Candice Raines.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  33. If someone were nutty enough, they might show the same level of perseverance as one with something more at stake? Seems to me this is the problem with ascribing motivation to an unbalanced sock; motivation of rational actors is easier to suss out.

    jeffeneff (707f3d)

  34. MayBee, I see from a google search on a site I’m not going to open that her real name is Candice Sparkman.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  35. That’s the secret y’all. Gingothy Leiner.

    Think about it. The two characters who likes dirty photos of themselves the most.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  36. It’s not a phrasing many of us would use once, let alone the tone of authority he exercises with people he has no authority over. I am right. No need to doubt this.

    @Comment by Crispian — 6/28/2011 @ 6:17 pm
    Someone compared the style to a mother speaking to a four year old. That catches the tone

    bmertz (d77c52)

  37. Dustin – My source is the Google page where I typed “ginger lee’s real name.” The specific site is a “Pron Wiki Leaks” page. No, I won’t open it.

    Above that, there’s a link that says her real name is Miranda, and she’s a mormon….

    Can you point me to your source?

    Dianna (f12db5)

  38. h, criminy. I just realized (slow on the uptake, here) that goatsred was (if Wolfe and Nikki/Marianela are all the same person) in the middle, the selected goat.

    I do love irony

    bmertz (d77c52)

  39. Let the record show that when Patterico first said that Reid was going to take questions, and before he actually started responding, I got it in that I thought he was going to give them enough rope to hang him.

    It’s been quite amusing watching it play out so far.

    Enigmaticore (491183)

  40. Dianna,

    imdb was my source.

    If you bing or google
    “Candice Raines November 1983” you’ll see both Ginger Lee fan clubs and several other sources note it. I see that Sparkman is an alias she’s used.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  41. But I think Ginger Lee is really Anthony Weiner.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  42. Ah! Thank you, Dustin.

    I have a poor relationship with imdb, somehow.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  43. I have a poor relationship with imdb, somehow.

    Comment by Dianna

    Me too. They are assholes.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  44. (joking)

    Dustin (c16eca)

  45. Thanks guys.
    Candice Raines seems like a great porn star name. Candy Raines.

    Hmmm. Tracking down her real name seems to be tricky.
    I know Gloria Allred didn’t want to say it.

    Would be so funny if it was Nikki or Jenny.

    MayBee (081489)

  46. Dustin, that was a healthy spirited debate last night. We can agree sometimes to disagree. We don’t have to resort to name calling, and still get our “stuff” out. I enjoyed Miranda’s presentaion, I thought she gave some wonderful insight and feedback into the discussion. I hope she continues to contribute as cogently in the future, she had a very pleasant spirit about her.

    The Tamandua (4de175)

  47. Dianna, I actually can’t say for sure her name is Raines. One site says she changed it from Tonya Short.

    I have no idea.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  48. That sounds great, Tamandua. I didn’t really like Miranda’s approach, but I’m not the boss of her or anything. I feel a lot better about it now that I got a lot off my chest. I think a lot of people had the idea there was something I was hiding, and I asked the person saying that, and now it’s clear it was actually just a complaint about my comments here.

    I hope we have many spirited disagreements in the future.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  49. Oh, great. Well, it was too much to hope that she acted under her own name.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  50. Crazy person with a score of some sort to settle playing multiple roles vs. well financed ugly leftist sock plot to bring down Breitbart. They’re both enticing hors d’oeuvres to Weiner’s main menu of proclivities– and either scenario is possible to imagine. But it’s hard (at least for me) to rationalize them both going on at the same time. Yet somehow they both seem to be connected. ????

    elissa (2eec7e)

  51. ronbryn currently in meltdown on twitter, saying: “Boston woman called @nytjenPreston from real # who didn’t even bother to check it as last as Monday. Meanwhile bloggers got death threats.”

    jeffeneff (707f3d)

  52. Why DW, why? Throwing another distraction into this mess?
    You disappeared and left others holding the bag.
    Why come out and discuss anything now when things are getting clearer?
    Grab your own bag and go.

    goatsred (b20383)

  53. ronbryn: Not one colleague in all my years of hard work and helping people on and off the record has called or sent me an email today, either.

    Well, I suppose he is learning the lesson the hard way. If it doesn’t advance the party agenda or fit the “progressive” narrative, then it doesn’t exist.

    All this talk about making a difference and making the world a better place is all a bunch of sunshine pumped up people’s rear ends. It is about the end justifies the means.

    I would have thought he got that message a long time ago. Heck, why did Matt Drudge have to break the Monica Lewinsky story? The press likes to claim they were hard on the Clinton administration but they really weren’t. Yeah, they published stuff about Clinton, that other people dug up. I don’t seem to recall any of the dirt being dug up by the traditional press. Most of it was a result of investigations by legal entities.

    So yeah, they will look into it and dig a little, but if it looks like it isn’t going to advance the agenda, they are going to drop it.

    Mr. Brynaert looks like he is learning that lesson first hand. If he presents any sort of threat a democrat or doesn’t fit the agenda or harms a “progressive” in any way, they are going to back off and leave him in the cold.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  54. Is @JohnReid9 Really @PatriotUSA76?

    Many people have publicly and independently noted a similarity between JohnReid9’s tweets and PatriotUSA76 / Dan Wolfe’s tweets & interview with Ladd. How intriguing.

    So I thought I’d make a listing of Similarities & Differences between the two…both factual and interpretive/stylistic. In the end, I think they’re different people, whether they’re both “real people” using pseudonyms, or one, or both, are socks.

    They’re not played by the same person. No way.

    My apologies for the poor formatting. It looks good in Word, nicely bullteted and indented, but I dunno how to get the HTML tags to embed.

    First, the similarities… 

    Similarities

    PatriotUSA76
    sources: PatriotUSA76 public tweets http://www.scribd.com/doc/56678261/patriotusa76-tweets-april26-may30
    and Ladd IM interview with PatriotUSA76
    http://filmladd.com/?PatriotUSA76Interview

    • Privacy Priority – says daughters are key reason for his deep cover

    • Focused on despised enemy
    o Pattern of going off on Weiner at length, over and over. Fixated.

    • Politeness to those viewed as listening or open to his story
    o @ezradulis Thank you. I think you’re the first person that noticed this & took time to report truth. (also repeated later)
    o @ezradulis Again, thank you for that. Another truth no one noticed or reported.

    • @Stranahan So many question not answered yet. You are one of the few asking.

    • Views Breitbart as sympathetic media
    o Sent screencaps of original RAW undies tweet only to Dana Loesch for Breitbart to use.
    • Generally negative to Stranahan, but conversant with him when Dan feels it’s productive inquiry
    o Was more positive at first…by the time of interview, was negative.
    o danwolfe7676: I just find it LMAO that you Lee Stranahan and the tinfoil hat crazies at Kos are focused on ME while Weiner gets away with this. For that, I admire him. Because you all look ridiculous.
    o danwolfe7676: Meanwhile, Lee Stranahan is doing numerology on my name somehwere to see if the numbers add up to “I DID IT” LMAO!
    o danwolfe7676: Good clarification because people like Stranahan will dissect every word. He’s the type of person you say “hold on a sec” and he really thinks it will only be a sec.
    o danwolfe7676 : Literal much?
    o danwolfe7676: And I’m sure Stranahan will be there coordinating the number of my kids with the phases of the moon.
    o danwolfe7676: “I got it!”
    o danwolfe7676: “I proved it!”
    o danwolfe7676: LMAO.
    o danwolfe7676: Fool.

    JohnReid9
    sources: all of JohnReid9’s public tweets. I have a file of all of them, and some are here: http://badjournalist.blogspot.com/2011/06/johnreid9-tweets.html
    JohnReid9 Q&A at Patterico https://patterico.com/2011/06/24/what-questions-would-you-ask-johnreid9/#comment-810647

    • Privacy Priority – says daughter / family & Marianelas’s family are key reasons for his deep cover

    • Focused on despised enemies
    • Pattern of going off on Jen Preston & Gennette (former friend, now enemy) at length, over and over. Fixated.

    • Politeness to those viewed as listening or open to his story
    • @wittier YW. You at least have the class to ask direct questions. TY.

    • @wittier I thank you for that. There is no excuse for @NYT_JenPreston or NYT. SHAME SHAME SHAME on you!!!!

    • “Respects” Breitbart
    • @NYT_JenPreston @DanRiehl Lady, U are not in the least bit frightening. At all. Maybe if U were writer for Biggovernment. NYT has no weight
    • Negative to Stranahan
    • @Leann_az @Patterico @AoSHQ @libertychick Well of that group @Stranahan has been sewing tales about Nikki. The rest I don’t know.
    • @Stranahan @dualdiagnosis @SarahWW @ikeonic @tommyxtopher How does someone talk so much and yet say so little of meaning or value?
    • @Stranahan @dualdiagnosis @SarahWW @ikeonic @tommyxtopher @GennetteC Your ignorance is astounding.

    …and the differences.

    Differences

    PatriotUSA76
    • Hates Weiner. Fiercely attacks Weiner the person and his politics.
    o But says his mission was not to take Weiner down
    • Consistently refers to Anthony Weiner as “Weiner”; never used “Rep Weiner” or “A. Weiner”
    • Conservative
    • Plainspoken, likely not highly educated:
    o Openly states when questions or cultural / historical allusions go over his head.
    o Tells Ladd to tone it down on the intellectual stuff over and over.
    • Different Use of language. I searched on many keywords used in anger, for example, and they don’t match up. (both use “liar” and “truth” but the more unique adjectives and invectives do not align. This is telling.”)
    • Uses “bro” to address twitter friends.
    Uses “LOL” always all caps
    • Is very keyed into predatory behavior toward young women.
    o Patriot’s Daughter had a predator
    o Blames himself for daughter’s experience with predator
    o Hints that she was attacked
    • Open to investigation in tweets.
    o Repeatedly welcomes FBI to take his computer so he can prove he didn’t hack Weiner
    o But otherwise very secretive about identity
    • Older. Reagan-avatar. & less computer-skilled “ Slow typer. “ “I didn’t grow up with computers like you guys”

    JohnReid9
    • Loves Weiner. Fiercely protects Weiner & loves his politics.
    o Felt compelled to “publicly” defend Weiner against attackers
     Question to @johnreid9 “i will read them thoroughly and carefully. i want to know what REALLY happened. until now, based on bad reporting we could not.. even tell who were real people and who were not…it has been very confusing with some very odball theories going around”
     JohnReid’s answer:
    • @wittier Yes, it has. We tried to stay out of this. We wanted to help Rep Weiner & @GNCordova. We saw them getting treated so unfairly
    • @wittier We needed to say something to show that Rep Weiner was not a monster. And that @GNCordova was getting a bad rap. So we helped
    • @wittier But our helping – it only brought people after us. Hunting us. Why is it so difficult to understand we do not want to be found?
    o about 2 hours ago via web in reply to wittier
    • Consistently refers to Anthony Weiner as “Rep Weiner” or “A.Weiner”
    • Liberal
    • Apparently highly-educated, articulate.
    o Well-heeled in tone in the Patterico Q&A. Complete sentences and paragraphs.
    o Wife’s polished statement to press
    o Nikki may go to elite secondary school
    o Allusions to decline of NYT’s influence, nytimes.com paywall issue, etc.
    o Notable exception are the passionate invectives (“backstabber”, “two-faced”) hurled at Gennette & Preston (seem juvenile and feminine for a girl’s dad to use a month after the betrayal)
    • Different Use of language. I searched on many keywords used in anger, for example, and they don’t match up. (both use “liar” and “truth” but the more unique adjectives and invectives do not align. This is telling.)
    Uses “Lol” always initial cap
    • You’d have to be a pretty great method actor to consistently type “LOL / Lol” two different ways as two different characters in a Twitter tirade or IM interview.

    Don’t “Laugh” this off…I think it’s pretty telling.
    • Not overly worried about possible predatory behavior toward daughter.
    o Encouraged teen daughter to befriend older man online.
    o Explains away predatory behavior of Weiner & thinks it doesn’t apply to Nikki.
    o Doesn’t seem to mind familiar, arguably flirtatious, and profane “fucking” tweets from Weiner to Nikki.
    • Not open to investigation, only selective interview questions. Has never offered to go public, hand over computers, etc. Just forwarded emails and screen caps.
    • Younger & Computer competent: Father of 16-year old, (elite..so likely 40-55 years old?) – Would have used computers in college and possibly high school.

    koam (62b38e)

  55. Crazy person with a score of some sort to settle playing multiple roles vs. well financed ugly leftist sock plot to bring down Breitbart.

    Crazy people do crazy sniznitz, why couldn’t it be both scenarios? I could see a scenario where troubled Boston girl is exchanging messages with Gennette (another Weiner chatpal) when all this hits the fan. They do all this sockpuppeting both to try to protect Weiner and attack Ubervillian Breitbart who in their world, either did this to their fantasy land BF Anthony Weiner or deserves it anyway (in their mind).

    Then troubled Boston Girl figures out along the way that Gennette was playing her the whole time and closer to the object of her affection than she was and that really sends her off the edge, leading to the Cyber Whack-A-Mole we have been following for the last week.

    All the Nikki/John Reid puppetry may be coming clearer but I still think the real story is the coverup from Weiner and his staff – and I wouldn’t doubt that Gennette was knee deep in that.

    Kaisersoze (c86eb0)

  56. They’re not played by the same person. No way.

    Comment by koam — 6/28/2011 @ 8:28 pm

    Lee just called and said we are all crazy.

    Kidding, that is impressive work. This is really going to be something to look back on in a couple of weeks when the real story it out in public view.

    Kaisersoze (c86eb0)

  57. Good stuff Koam. Insightful. Thanks!

    Woodshedder (44e97d)

  58. There is still nothing to show that the person in Mass. who is blowing all the smoke is the same person who was using any of these twitter accounts before. A person can be given the credentials and can be asked to make some noise. You can’t tell who is using a twitter account. A twitter account can be a “role” account with any number of people able to use it.

    Say Weiner himself was using the account to “vet” a mark. So the story gets blown, people start asking questions about the account, he hands the credentials over to someone who will “take one for the team” with the promise that it would be made “worth their while” later.

    Sort of like a rodeo clown designed to attract attention. That would be why they just won’t shut up. It is their “job” not to shut up.

    Or it could be someone else doing something with the account, the story blows up, they need to hand the account over to someone else to play rodeo clown, again with the promise that it would be made “worth their while”. Not sure that covers criminal acts like threats and false police reports, though, but maybe someone got a little carried away.

    There has to be a reason why the liberal media has dropped this like a hot potato. Maybe a little birdie told them to lay off or something.

    Was it someone attempting to blackmail Weiner but the story blew up before they had a chance to get close enough? Who knows, all I do know is that for some reason, anybody who gets too narrow a focus on those accounts seems eventually shy away.

    Something “feels” to me like it is amateurish in practice yet there is a hand with a lot of resources behind it somehow.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  59. A twitter account can be a “role” account with any number of people able to use it.

    That would make sense if Weiner and/or people working for him coordinated with some of the girls he had been sexting, something that IMO is very likely.

    Kaisersoze (c86eb0)

  60. That wasn’t my point. My point was to use a role account as an example, not saying this one was. The idea is that more than one person can have the username/password to use a twitter account. Or one person can “give” the account to someone else by simply giving them the login credentials. Just because tweets are coming from the same account doesn’t mean the same person is sending them.

    Did the usage pattern change at some point?

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  61. o

    Nikki may go to elite secondary school-

    – Buckley?

    Different Use of language. I searched on many keywords used in anger, for example, and they don’t match up. (both use “liar” and “truth” but the more unique adjectives and invectives do not align. This is telling.)

    Ok, I’ll bite. What does it tell you? Or do we have to wait for that info.( You’re killing me.) Also, could I ask about your process for analyzing language in this manner? I’m fascinated. Is it software or a method?

    Impressive research Koam. Well done.

    btw. just a humorous side note. Gennette has just tweeted to ronny that we never could point out where she had lied to us. Not once mind you. This tweet, days after she announced” NO, I lied”

    bmertz (d77c52)

  62. That wasn’t my point.

    Sorry, I thought I was agreeing with your point. If these sockpuppet accounts were set up for specific reasons, I was just saying that I could see more than one person using them and sharing the password like you say. If there was a coordinated covered that included people working for Weiner, it isn’t hard to imagine that scenario.

    Also it isn’t hard to imagine that some of the changes to these accounts happening when one of the people using it changed the password and then changed the profile, using the account for their own (sole) purpose at that point.

    Kaisersoze (c86eb0)

  63. Just to show how wide open this could be … say I am an agent of a foreign government. Lets say my assignment is to very closely monitor someone in government and I notice the people he is following on twitter and maybe some flirtatious banter in the open. So maybe at some point I create an account in the hopes of attempting to entrap him to use for blackmail.

    Subcommittee on Energy and Air Quality
    Subcommittee on Environment and Hazardous Materials

    In the 109th Congress he was on:
    Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security
    Subcommittee on Highways Transit and Pipelines
    Subcommittee on Coast Guard and Maritime Transportation

    Gee, he might be involved in things having to do with nuclear stuff (Energy, Hazardous Materials, Terrorism and Homeland Security). Maybe they could get some information on nuclear security from him or use him to spy on closed hearings.

    I don’t know, I am just thinking out loud, but even in that case, once this story busted open and people start asking questions about that account, it would have to be handed off but it may be too late if someone screwed up and used it for criminal acts, particularly if any of the tweets came from a phone as I think the laws might be a little different if a phone is used instead of a computer. Now the whole history of their tweets and where they came from can potentially subject to subpoena to find out exactly where they came from. Same with any “cloaking” service they were using.

    See, the thing is, when some member of government starts doing something like this, they are potentially the target of more than just a political enemy, they might be the target of an enemy, enemy.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  64. Good question, crosspatch. An example of this in a hypothetical situation: Say you’re a congressman having multiple online “affairs” with women. You notice some group of people are becoming suspicious. So, you (or someone you trust) starts a sockpuppet account to find out if one or more of your Digital Paramours are “talking out of turn”. Then that person maybe hands the account off to someone else – someone more removed from the congressman to try damage control etc after everything goes to hell in a handbasket. Hell, wouldn’t it be funny if Gennette was warning Weiner about his own sock, and that is what made him figure “I can trust this chick – I’ll send her a pic of my erection”

    RB (ee4e2f)

  65. btw. just a humorous side note. Gennette has just tweeted to ronny that we never could point out where she had lied to us.

    Also Stranahan tweeted this today about her, which I totally don’t get. IMO its pretty apparent she is hiding something and spent all that time here trying to find out what other people knew about it. This is Lee’s tweet –

    Stranahan Lee Stranahan

    Well, you know I agree with you about @GNCordova — she’s being used as misdirection, IMO @kklausser

    Kaisersoze (c86eb0)

  66. Perhaps we need to think of it in the context of a 24/7 chat room or technical support type of arrangement. Several people are qualified to help you–all can access your records to review your case and see what has previously been said to you–and there is always someone available to talk to you at that number anytime you need it. But you’ll get a different person depending on when you call and therefore which shift you call into.

    elissa (4fdb9f)

  67. I suppose that there is no place on your list for “if I were a dog, I would have snarled at him when he showed up here…”? I couldn’t make myself talk to him.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  68. @Kaisersoze

    I don’t think he would let his staff know he was tweeting dic pics to HS chicks. Maybe some staff member might have taken it upon themselves to check up on him. Who knows.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  69. True enough. Either way, I was leaning towards the “That SOB told me I was the only one, but he lied to me. I’ll fix him…” theory, but now it is so damned convoluted I don’t know what to think except that I think the NYT reporter etc know a lot more than they are reporting…

    RB (ee4e2f)

  70. .. he hands the credentials over to someone who will “take one for the team” with the promise that it would be made “worth their while” later.

    As with the case of the John Edwards affair and his love child. Not using a twitter account, but the idea of asking someone else to “take one for the team”

    bmertz (d77c52)

  71. Like you, I bet that Ms.NYT knows a lot more about this than she’s written. But I also bet that somebody has told her, “if you publish that you’ll never work in this town again.” That’s how the news biz rolls in power central.

    elissa (4fdb9f)

  72. I don’t think he would let his staff know he was tweeting dic pics to HS chicks.

    I meant during the damage control phase after the cat was out of the bag and his staff was scrambling to sell the story that Breitbart had hacked him. Anyone who had been on Twitter for more than half an hour already knew he had been tweeting dic picks to young girls.

    Kaisersoze (c86eb0)

  73. I hope Gennette is not the one he asked to “take one for the team”.

    elissa (4fdb9f)

  74. @koam,

    Hmmm, sounds exactly what Wolfe/Reid would want us to believe…

    On a more serious note, many differences can be explained by one persona is close to real and the other is more contrived. If it is a single individual it would be easy to make the liberal persona a bit more buttoned up or the conservative one a bit rougher, use more/less respectful monikers for Weiner, emphasize civility, etc. I honestly don’t see evidence of greater education in Reid’s posts. He appears to have a larger vocabulary, saying stuff like “a purposeful choice with malicious motives” and uses words like “authorize” and “recipient.” Just because a person doesn’t normally use certain words doesn’t mean he doesn’t know them…or can refrain from using them in casual tweets. And Wolfe is perfectly able to construct sentences. In the passage above it seems he is trying to make concise points – I don’t believe he actually talks like a caveman. I give very little credence to Wolfe’s claims of ignorance or Reid’s claims of liberalism. Both are easily created personas.

    There are the little things, like the “LOL” and Reid writes “DM’s” whereas Wolfe writes (properly!) “DMs”. Those are the things that make me go “hmmm, somebody can’t be that nutty, can they?”

    Crispian (70c05e)

  75. A spurned lover?
    Someone who heard what was going on (someone who knew Megan Broussad?)
    A child porn sting?
    His wife looking for information?
    Him, looking to hear about himself?
    Someone who hoped to blackmail him?
    Someone who happened to notice a US Congressman interacted online with a lot of pretty women, and wanted to know what’s what.

    There are so many options.

    MayBee (081489)

  76. Hell, wouldn’t it be funny if Gennette was warning Weiner about his own sock, and that is what made him figure “I can trust this chick – I’ll send her a pic of my erection”

    Yeah, exactly that thought occurred to me several days ago. Then things heat up, people start wondering who owns his account and he hands it off to his cousin or something to play “psycho bitch from hell”. There are a lot of Weiners in Mass. maybe one of them married a George.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  77. The thing is, until more hard information is made known, it’s all speculation. The main points are: anyone can use an account 2: when the heat cranked up maybe the account credentials were handed off and the person last using the account isn’t the person who used the account before.

    I am not even saying I think something like that is what is happening but it pays to be aware that it COULD be happening. In chess you look at the whole board.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  78. Crispian

    I have some background in working with people doing improv. ( Not professionals-I am not in the industry) But to the point. A good improv actor can do what you have described. Quite easily in fact. Why wouldn’t that ability translate onto their computer screen? It is the same creative function. An impro actor can create a personality within minutes. Give them more time to prepare and their performance becomes more detailed.

    JohnReid may have had real components to his/her personality but he was plastic fantastic in my judgement. He lacked that element of authenticity that makes a great performance. I found myself comparing him to a Stepford Wife. His civility was donned like a costume piece. He didn’t wear it without thought, as though it was normal to be civil.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  79. We are dealing with a trained scriptwriter who undoubtedly knows how to make character notes, write dialog that sounds different and so on.

    Doing it all in a written format is pretty easy, too. Especially in a non-real time format.

    Notice that the person screws up on the phone. Like, a LOT. Can’t keep her story straight.

    Right?

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  80. I have watched very young adults give astonishing impro performances with very little time to prepare- and these are amateurs. That type of talent would allow Gennette or someone even younger to play a sockpuppet. They could play an older sockpuppet for that matter. Depends on how much time they have to research. Combine it with screenwriting training.. and we have major trouble.

    This type of scam is going to make the next election a nightmare. And I think the idea will go viral with the teens and college set. Think about how Columbine incidents exploded all over the country. The power of suggestion took over.

    Ok- it is very very late, and ze brain is shutting down. I apologize if my comments were incoherent, but I’m sleepy.
    Goodnight all.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  81. @Bmertz
    Are you slow? Seriously. I was lying to a sockpuppet! A person posing as a high school girl. How is that the same as lying to any of you?

    Gennettec (3d4693)

  82. I want to know when JohnReid9 is going to do his video chat with Patterico.

    He promised to do so several days ago, but it has not happened.

    JohnReid9 needs to prove that he is telling the truth and that he is a real person.

    slp (2e5deb)

  83. gennette, I’d much rather you lie to us…oh wait!

    lyingliar (e7577d)

  84. We are dealing with a trained scriptwriter who undoubtedly knows how to make character notes, write dialog that sounds different and so on.

    ‘Undoubtedly’

    So you don’t have any doubt? Well, I don’t have much doubt you’re right. Just some. It’s possible some of these people sound different from eachother because they are different people.

    PatriotUSA76 really doesn’t sound much like John Reid. You have a theory that can make all the contradictions not matter, and that’s fine, and you are able to convey Patriot’s predictions as evidence he could only know something if he’s John Reid, but that’s not proof.

    You aren’t 100 percent sure.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  85. very “Weekend at Bernie’s.”

    tifosa (cd8fbd)

  86. Anyone forcing you to read, or comment?

    JD (7299b9)

  87. #36 bmertz
    That was me.
    I wish I had a dollar for every time I said “thank you for listening” to my 4yr old
    I think that is this persons natural tongue.
    Nice work Koam but I think Lee is right. It would be easy to play all these roles and what would any elitist liberal first go to, to portray a “right winga” Old, out of touch, angry, uneducated, frothing at the mouth buffoon. Now I know there are no absolutes but I cannot think of one of my friends from my “elite boarding school” or University that would believe I do not think as they do. Not saying they would “de-friend” me but….I could see a sort of Invasion of the body snatchers point and scream. 🙂

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  88. Some unintentional humor from Cannonfire.

    ian cormac (72470d)

  89. If Patriot is John Reid is Nikki Reid, I’d like to know how this plan was supposed to unfold if Anthony Weiner was a specific target.

    How much knowledge about what was going on do we imagine Nikki/Patriot had?
    Patriot’s timing lines up pretty well with Megan Broussard.
    Nikki was kind of just hanging out, chatting with a few of Weiner’s followers, but not really drawing attention to herself. No tweets about how hot Weiner was, or how she wanted to have sex with him, or calling him her boyfriend.
    She just befriended a few of his 90+ followers and talked about other things. She asked for a follow when encouraged to do so by someone else.

    At the same time, Gennette was noticing who was tweeting about Weiner, noticed when he started following Ethel, got him to follow her without asking for it, brought him up to Nikki because she ‘knew’ that was what Nikki wanted.

    And in the end, Nikki didn’t get hit on by Weiner, although she did get the heads up from Gennette that they had a flirty relationship.

    Was that supposed to be the point of Nikki? To hope one of his online hotsie totsies would volunteer information?
    How was this all supposed to work?
    What do people think was the plan?

    MayBee (081489)

  90. She just befriended a few of his 90+ followers

    Should be 90+ follows.

    MayBee (081489)

  91. At the same time, Gennette was noticing who was tweeting about Weiner, noticed when he started following Ethel, got him to follow her without asking for it, brought him up to Nikki because she ‘knew’ that was what Nikki wanted.

    I’ve yet to hear gennette’s explanation on this point. Everyone seems pro-Wenis, fake or not.

    ∅ (e7577d)

  92. Oh, ye of little faith: AW is still planning to go to rehab. (That will get him nicely out of the journalistic loop for a while.)

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/weiner_to_do_hard_time_in_rehab_6N7ucfbdMXuRzVmDeWCIBJ

    elissa (3f799c)

  93. Dustin, though as a drawn character PUSA1776 has his own “voice” the mask slips at times. And beyond momentary loss of “voice”, patterns of behavior and methods of manipulation are lining up too well with the other socks. This person is in league with, highly simpatico with, or actually the same person socking for “Nikki”.

    SarahW (af7312)

  94. Every so often I amuse myself with the idea that Patriot’s big time NE Congressman who had pictures with a mistress that were about to be released is breathing a big sigh of relief.

    MayBee (081489)

  95. MayBee – gennetteC is the mostest honest and forthright person EVAH and why do people keep invading her privacy?!?!?!

    JD (d48c3b)

  96. JD #96. Put a sock in it…

    ltw (370236)

  97. Looks to me like a diversionary tactic. That is, Dan Wolfe (PatriotUSA76) is resurfacing because Jenny George’s sock puppet posse is collapsing down to her, and she is trying to divert attention to Cordova.

    Gennette Cordova was an interesting character when it was not certain who Nikki was. If Nikki was really some underage girl having inappropriate contact with A. Weiner, Cordova might be useful in finding her. After the revelation that the starchild111 account seamlessly morphed from Jenay to Nikki, it is beyond a reasonable doubt that Nikki is Jenny George- who is an adult.

    So the question naturally arises, what is Cordova’s value in this investigation? I would argue that she is now insignificant. Is she misleading everybody by withholding the extent of her relationship with A. Weiner? Probably. It is very unlikely A. Weiner tweeted his meat without some level of escalating flirtation that Cordova has not yet admitted. That’s his modus operandi. But she is an adult, and A. Weiner likely didn’t do anything with her that we haven’t already heard about from several other women. So why do we need to hear all the sorid details? There isn’t even a suggestion of criminal behavior unless there is a connection between Cordova and any of these threats; and I have seen none. Nor is there good reason to conclude that Cordova and Jenny George are or were acting in concert- in fact there is ample evidence that they are competative or antagonistic.

    The DM from PatriotUSA76 to @AG_Conservative, assuming it is authentic, is wrought with drama and intrigue, but in the big picture, the real question is: So What?

    As Lee Stranahan suggests at the beginning of this thread, probably the most important thing about this DM from PatriotUSA76 to @AG_Conservative is that it is one more piece of evidence suggesting that Jenny George (AKA Nikki, very likely AKA John Reid, Patricia Reid, Marianela Alicea and Mark Alicea) is likely PatriotUSA76.

    Once it has been established that Jenny George is PatriotUSA76, then the only stories left are what was her motive for destroying A. Weiner- especially considering that she is likely politically very liberal- how did she go about using all these sock puppets to try to manipulate the story before and after it broke, and who is making all these threats and why?

    In my opinion, Gennette Cordova is no longer any more relevant to answering the above questions than any of the other women A. Weiner tweeted his meat to.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  98. in this investigation?

    What investigation?
    Why is finding out who the mystery person who seemed to know Weiner was flirting *more* vital information than finding out what Weiner was up to, and what his known correspondents were up to?

    We believe there was correspondence between these three people (cordova, weiner, nikki). If there is some great mystery beyond “what happened here?”, it seems the place where they all meet up is a good place to start solving it, no?

    MayBee (081489)

  99. My handy occam’s razor says they are one and the same. It really would be easy to create two different personas, easier than one might first imagine. Go test your own ability on a forum somewhere.

    And as SarahW and others point out, there is a consistent voice behind each of them. Someone who enjoys authority and controlling others. Someone who is intelligent, but not necessarily well-educated. Could be someone with a background in theater/screenplay (I personally suspect that to be Sock Puppet alpha). Maybe someone with a few years in military intelligence (not 007 stuff, but has some experience in orchestrating this kind of charade online). And maybe just a politically obsessed hobbyist.

    Whether I am giving someone too much or too little credit or whether I’m completely wrong doesn’t really matter – though Reid et al certainly reads every comment to gauge his next move, and for amusement.

    Crispian (70c05e)

  100. Put a sock in it MayBee. That is just silly talk.

    JD (3ad5b9)

  101. MayBee,

    investigation [ɪnˌvɛstɪˈgeɪʃən]
    n
    the act or process of investigating; a careful search or examination in order to discover facts, etc.

    I admit that I am not as informed as others “investigating” this affair, but why is there any reason to believe that A. Weiner was up to anything other than what appears on the surface? That is, he was getting his jollies cyber seducing women who were enamored with his politics. What else is there any evidence he “was up to”?

    As far as the place where Cordova, Nikki ans A. Weiner all meet up? To my knowledge, Weiner was trying to seduce women and he interacted with Nikki and Cordova- through twitter and direct messages- separately to this end. Is there any evidence that the three of them interacted in concert? Also, from my interpretation of the facts I’ve seen, Nikki and Cordova interacted suspiciously, competitively and or antagonistically. Is there any evidence they were conspiring with each other or even acting in concert to any significant end?

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  102. Maybee, I admit seeing sockles suffer a little for the death threats and false reports would please me, but I see you are more admirably focused on the news of any larger importance in the world.

    I think any disinterest in that angle is largely related to the fact that everyone knows enough to know what he was up to. Even his friends and the ones who won’t admit it, know what he was up to and know that he is a liability to their interests.

    He’s got some kind of pathology of personality – he not only has questionable habits but an ego and impulse control problem. He’s an easy liar, bad news, untrustworthy, forever a liablity.

    He’s not importanty or valuable enough to keep on in a DSK-weary world.

    So, he “cracked”. He’s to resign his seat, and whatever his plans he is not likely to get it back or any other kind of high office.

    No need for endless speculation about Gennette, really, because its pretty obvious from her manner that she’s lied and covered for him, even if she denies (to herself) what his sole interest in her was.

    SarahW (af7312)

  103. Dustin, though as a drawn character PUSA1776 has his own “voice” the mask slips at times. And beyond momentary loss of “voice”, patterns of behavior and methods of manipulation are lining up too well with the other socks. This person is in league with, highly simpatico with, or actually the same person socking for “Nikki”.

    Comment by SarahW — 6/29/2011 @ 7:59 am

    That’s a good argument. I’d give it 75% chance of being correct. There are a LOT of people on the internet. We will probably never know.

    Anyway, though I have a huge problem with Lee, I do not see a reason to criticize that he is passionately interested in finding the person who is behind PatriotUSA76.

    As I told Wittier just now, Lee has a way with people sometimes. Gets his targets upset and frustrated. But there’s a line, and PatriotUSA76 has crossed it, and whoever is sending those threats crossed it. That’s justifies a change of priorities.

    Why is finding out who the mystery person who seemed to know Weiner was flirting *more* vital information than finding out what Weiner was up to, and what his known correspondents were up to?

    Weiner probably has been investigated in private and we just don’t know about it. That’s my hope. Either way, that argument applies to so many issues. There’s the Kabul massacre, there’s scandals involving politicians who are in power, etc. This story is not one you’re following because it’s important, but because it’s so strange and fascinating. Anyway, I enjoy your common sense.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  104. Ron Bryneart, if you are reading here: I don’t think you are making as much sense as you think you are.
    Go back and reread your Tweets as if you weren’t inside your own head already. You could surely do a better job making your case.
    Perhaps Patterico will let you say what you have to say here, on this blog.

    MayBee (081489)

  105. Hi all. I have been reading for a bit and thought I would post.
    I agree with #98 from lamchops. Genette doesn’t really matter and further, I am not sure any of this *really* matters though it is very interesting.
    If he had been sending stuff to an underage girl the news would be all over it. Once they found out that it was an adult faking, it stopped being all that important. I don’t see any grand conspiracy, just a few young women playing games with each other because they were jealous and more than a little obsessed with Weiner. This game has spilled over to all of you all, and I guess me to, because you all are immersed in it. The death threats and all that should be taken seriously but they are more likely from a crazy young woman who still would love a bit of weiner.
    As for Genette, she is here because you all are the only real connection she has to Weiner and you are helping her to find out that she wasn’t all that special. She was one of many getting same pics, same lines, same attention. Sad really.

    A bunch of silly, young, jealous women playing games is not really big news. I am curious about it, yes, but I think that those making this into something more than that are reaching. I hope not for dramatics and traffic. I would like to think better of the people here than that. Just my take anyway. Yes I am a bit full of myself!

    Amanda Lynn (d3e2bd)

  106. As for Genette, she is here because you all are the only real connection she has to Weiner and you are helping her to find out that she wasn’t all that special.

    My guess is that Gennette is freaked out by whoever is behind all this, and even more fascinated than we are because it affects her personally. I wonder if she’s hiding a difference sort of relationship with Weiner, just given her reaction to the jpg, but she actually does have a right to keep that to herself if that’s the case, in my opinion.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  107. Dustin, I would add to that 75% stuff – “Patiot’is a liar, or at least exhibits a liar’s behaviors.

    His character is drawn to have certain characteristics, but searching for appropriate description here – it is *badly* drawn and internally inconsistent.

    If there were no other socks, I would suspect him of being one.

    Therefore, in the context of the situation, where there is profile faking going on all over the place, the most unlikely scenario of all, to me, evaluating not only trees but the forest, is that he ISN’T a sock. He’s too fake, there are too many other fakes.

    SarahW (af7312)

  108. After the revelation that the starchild111 account seamlessly morphed from Jenay to Nikki, it is beyond a reasonable doubt that Nikki is Jenny George- who is an adult.

    Is it also beyond a reasonable doubt that @LeeStranahanCat was actually set up by Lee’s cat ? (I’m beginning to suspect it may be a different cat entirely). What if a suspicious cat with a fake Texas accent (and a blocked number) calls and verifies that it’s their account (and that they are Lee’s cat). Does that make it more or less certain ?

    I totally agree with your general point that it probably was an adult, and that Gennette has no more information about them that we do. But, just in terms of what we’re 100% certain of, really any person (or domestic animal) with access twitter could have set up that account.

    piglet (ae38dd)

  109. piglet,

    It is true that any person could have set up the starchild111 account- although somewhat less likely any domestic animal. But we know that the account wasn’t setup by anybody, it was set up by Jenny George. And it was used by Jenny George under the moniker Jenay, for some time.

    Then earlier this year the moniker changed to Nikki, while still retaining the same followers (including Ginger Lee). That doesn’t make it 100% certain that the account wasn’t hacked by Elvis Presley, having returned from another galaxy on a flying saucer, but it does imply an inference beyond a reasonable doubt that Jenny George = Jenay = Nikki.

    As to Lee’s cat. I think we can all agree that if Lee does not get her spayed, there is a unanimous consensus among us that Elvis take her with him back on his flying saucer to said aforementioned galaxy.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  110. But we know that the account wasn’t setup by anybody, it was set up by Jenny George…. Then earlier this year the moniker changed to Nikki, while still retaining the same followers

    Yes, you’re right that retaining the followers shows that the account was probably never deactivated. But it still could have been set up by anyone. Sure, “Jenny George” used it, but only to tweet J.Lo and the Kardashians – none of her friends ever tweeted back and forth with her or anything. So it’s hard to be sure it was really her.

    And it’s not like they ask you to hold up a photo ID to skype when you set up a twitter account. Anyone could have done it. (Okay, maybe not Elvis, but almost anyone). Sure, It could have been an actual Jenny George, but without at least the IP address from which the account was created, I don’t think we can really say that with certitude.

    piglet (ae38dd)

  111. You can follow Lee’s cat on twitter now – and facebook, even.

    SarahW (af7312)

  112. @88.Comment by Blackburnsghost — 6/29/2011 @ 7:05 am
    Re#36 bmertz

    I have had similar experience Blackburns (or would you rather be ghost?).

    A next door neighbor refused to speak to me for nearly a year after she found out I was not supporting Obama for President. Another close friend informed me that only irrational people would reject progressive beliefs“. After our conversations, they appeared to believe that I had morphed into Daughter of Satan overnight. If I don’t say anything they assume that I agree. The idea of my respected opponent has disappeared from relationships and polite conversation. If a close friend or a colleague is venting left-wing beliefs, it forces me to decide if I am willing to sacrifice an old friendship in order to confront them. If I confront a colleague then I risk sparking a witch-hunt.

    bmertz (d77c52)


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