Patterico's Pontifications

6/24/2011

My Conversation With “Alicia Pain,” the Person Who Threatened Me Last Night

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:52 am

So when I got a threat last night, my first impulse was to post the whole thing. I think it was 60 seconds between the time I read the email and my post. In case you missed that post, this is what I received:

You need to stop digging into Genette Cordova and Rep. AW. I cannot insure your safety if you continue.
Do not trust anyone.

Please think about your family. This story is not worth it. I can assure you that.

Please remember, your safety cannot be assured if you continue.

I am trying to help you, a lot of people are very disappointed that this story has continued.

You can continue with the story if you so desire, but your safety cannot be assured.

Thank you for your cooperation and your understanding.

Yours Truly- Alicia

It was written mostly in red font, which as you know is the preferred font of those who issue threats, because of its fear-inspiring nature.

Right about the time I hit publish, I got an e-mail from Ace asking if I had received the threat. He then followed up with other e-mails showing how he responded to Alicia, and how she escalated her rhetoric. Read the exchange at Ace’s.

So I thought: hey, if this person will talk to Ace, maybe they’ll talk to me. So I started using tactics similar to what Ace used. I figured if Ace got her talking, maybe copying his manner would work for me too.

Here is the exchange we had.

I responded:

Is this a joke?

After half an hour I prodded further:

Where did you go? Did you fall asleep? Isn’t it a little early for a drama queen to have gone to bed?

Right around midnight, I got a response:

I did not. No reason to start calling names. With that said, You decided to ignore my advice. I was trying to help you. I am no longer able to help you. Consequent thereto, you will have to deal with the consequences of your actions, whatever those consequences may entail. I hope you make the right decisions from here on out.

And yes, I am aware of the fact that you are a prosecutor in the gang task force in Santa Monica.

And no this is NOT a threat, this is just a friendly request, that you leave this story alone and not release any more PRIVATE and INTIMATE emails.
Your actions are causing some people quite a bit of disappointment and anger.

I appreciate your time and cooperation-sincerely yours, Alicia

All bold in this post is in the original. I responded, again copying Ace’s tactics:

I figured you’d back down when someone called you on it. Too late, though. Taking an obvious threat and pretending it’s not doesn’t neutralize the threat. It becomes difficult to get a job when people learn you have gone around threatening people on the Internet.

Good luck finding meaningful employment after this.

Sincerely yours,

P

I loved how they kept using the “sincerely yours” signature block. I added:

Oh: after reading your e-mail I decided to pursue the story further and publish more.

http://patterico.com/2011/06/23/weiner-document-dump-part-2-including-alleged-dms-from-weiner-to-nikki/

Enjoy.

P

P.S. I’d also love to publish a story about your getting arrested for Internet threats. That’d be good copy.

(The link, of course, is to last night’s document dump, which includes alleged DMs from Rep. Weiner to “Nikki Reid” in which he uses the f-word (to describe how he likes to mock conservative “trolls”) and seems to joke about considering going to prom with her. Worth your time if you haven’t read it.)

They responded:

You really think so? Let’s see CA PC 422:
Any person who willfully threatens to commit a crime which will result in death or great bodily injury to another person, with
the specific intent that the statement, made verbally, in writing, or
by
means of an electronic communication device, is to be taken as a
threat, even if there is no intent of actually carrying it out,
which, on its face and under the circumstances in which it is made,
is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to
convey to the person threatened, a gravity of purpose and an
immediate prospect of execution of the threat, and thereby causes
that person reasonably to be in sustained fear for his or her own
safety or for his or her immediate family’s safety
, shall be punished
by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed one year, or by
imprisonment in the state prison.
So go ahead…..File the charging documents. Request the warrants. I’ll have to check the bail schedule. I’ll see you at the jail.
But you can’t and you won’t and no prosecutor would charge me with anything.
I am sorry, if you felt that “I” myself threatened you. I don’t threaten people.
I simply made the observation that your safety could not be assured.
And I have meaningful employment at this time. I am sort of a janitor, I help fix and clean up my clients problems.
I have relayed my disappointment to Mr. Reid (not his real name) as well. She has decided she will respect my concerns.

I appreciate your continued cooperation, Sincerely yours-Alicia

The emphasis was in that scary red font, but I don’t know how to do that. Sorry. She followed up:

I have no interest in reading your story. I am confident that LE will not arrest me. However, if they do, I will give you an exclusive interview, right before I post bail. I am confident, that will not be the case.
I have enough information, that if my client chooses to a certain unnamed adult person would be facing serious felony charges, see PC 314.
Thank you for your continued cooperation in this manner, sincerely yours-Alicia *kiss*

You will later see that she is apparently referring to some unnamed “unemployed person.” Not sure who that is. Penal Code section 314 has to do with indecent exposure, which could be a reference to Weiner, who is newly unemployed, but I don’t know. Anyway, I said:

Ever heard of an attempted 422? That’s where someone tries to threaten someone but fails.

It’s half the time, but it can still be a felony. Check section 664 along with 422.

This all assumes that we’re talking California state law. I don’t know about federal law having to do with using the Internet to threaten people. But I can learn.

I actually was inclined to laugh this off at first. Now? Not so sure. May make some phone calls tomorrow.

She responded:

I’m sorry there is no 664/422. And you’re a prosecutor really? And any attempt=the same time. So a 664/496(a) is the same sentence as a 496(a). Like I said I am just a janitor, except instead of cleaning bathrooms, floors, I clean up peoples problems. That is what I get paid to do. I do whatever is in the best interest of my clients.
You can go ahead and make some calls tomorrow, sadly you will only embarrass yourself. Especially if you try to have me charged with 664/422.

Thank you for your continued cooperation, sincerely yours-Alicia *kiss* *wink*

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. There is indeed a crime of attempted criminal threat. Those who believe different should talk to Ryan Toledo. Here is a quote from his appeal, which he lost:

Given the record before us, the only element of terrorist threat the jury might have found to be attempted but not completed was her testimony that she was not frightened by appellant’ s statements. The jury was entitled to find that a reasonable person would have been, thus Appellant was properly convicted of attempted terrorist threat.

As for any attempt being punishable by the same amount of prison time as the underlying crime, well, read section 664 of the California Penal Code. The relevant language:

Every person who attempts to commit any crime, but fails, or
is prevented or intercepted in its perpetration, shall be punished
where no provision is made by law for the punishment of those
attempts, as follows:
(a) If the crime attempted is punishable by imprisonment in the
state prison, the person guilty of the attempt shall be punished by
imprisonment in the state prison for one-half the term of
imprisonment prescribed upon a conviction of the offense attempted.

Every practicing criminal attorney knows this. So where did Alicia get the idea that the time is the same? Well, she talks about looking at a bail schedule. The Los Angeles Superior Court’s bail schedule (.pdf) states on page 10 that the bail for an an attempt (with noted and irrelevant exceptions) is

Same as substantive offense

As I said, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I responded:

You didn’t actually look up section 664, did you?

As for there being no attempted 422, tell the people who have been convicted at trial.

It’s amusing enough having you explain California law to me. Now explain federal law on Internet threats. Let’s see if you do as well with that.

Then explain to me who your client is. Mr./Mrs. Not-Reid?

She responded:

No, I did not look up section 664 because I already know what it is. You’re going to start our relationship with lies? I am very disappointed in you. I know you are better than that. Nobody has ever been convicted of 664/422, and you know this. Last e-mail you tried to tell me that 664 =half the time. I see you have conceded that you were mistaken. A 664(whatever)= the same time as the attempted crime carried.
It’s not amusing that I have to explain California law to you, it’s actually pretty sad really.
I’m not an attorney, however most of my clients are attorneys. Like I said I am a janitor, I clean up people’s problems. It’s amazing how much someone will pay for their freedom.
I don’t give out the identities of my clients. Let’s just say my client is not “known” yet by anyone.
I am not a partisan, it doesn’t pay me enough.
I know you are a prosecutor. I know you consider gang members “terrorists”
I don’t blame you really.
Let me cut to the bottom line. I deliver you information that will send a certain “unemployed person” to prison.
I do not want anything in exchange.

“I’m not an attorney.” You don’t say!

Note how the “janitor” reference interfaces with the exchange Alicia had with Ace. I said:

I’ll ignore your ignorant bluster on California penal law and ask you to send whatever you want. If you have evidence that someone committed a crime, let’s see it.

This doesn’t mean you haven’t committed a crime yourself, because you have.

She responded:

Well what can I say? If you really want to bring me to justice, I encourage you to do so. Here is the best number to call: Stalking and Threat Assessment Team (STAT)
Inside line: X[redacted] or (213) 974-[redacted]. If you hurry you might be able to get me off the streets before the weekend. But the chance of the warrant going in to the system before Monday is almost none. I am confident I have not committed a crime.
I will only act in the best interest of my client. I will get in contact with telephonically and will make arrangements for you to receive the information, if that is the course of action that needs to be taken. Remember GL also had contact with me, as I advised her. She sadly chose against her best interests in going with GA. Unfortunately.
Thank you for your continued cooperation, sincerely yours, Alicia *kiss*

I’m redacting the number because I don’t want you guys calling it.

If you haven’t been following this closely: GL is Ginger Lee. GA is Gloria Allred. And Ginger Lee did receive threats.

It’s hard to feel too threatened by a chucklehead who can’t string a sentence together and derives their understanding of California penal law by reading a bail schedule. Still, I wonder . . .

They’re not giving Anthony Pellicano Internet access in federal prison, are they?

75 Responses to “My Conversation With “Alicia Pain,” the Person Who Threatened Me Last Night”

  1. Oh. I forgot to say: I’ll cooperate with authorities if Ace is reporting this, which I believe he is.

    Patterico (135ea8)

  2. If the verbiage had odd punctuation and no capital letters, I would be reminded of your old friend nishi.

    Simon Jester (f797c0)

  3. that’s not how nishi rolls not even a little Mr. Jester

    she’s a for reals actual person with good manners and a turtle named gamara and an inquisitive mind

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  4. i found the line about her having “clients” interesting…

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  5. This person appears to have watched way too many TV shows. I’m surprised they didn’t refer to themselves as The Fixer.

    Joseph (f00357)

  6. They are terribly dramatic.

    SarahW (af7312)

  7. btw, as a strategy to convince Patrick that a story is interesting and he is on the right track, her threat is working out really, really well.

    i mean that was her goal, right?

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  8. “Alicia”? So that’s Charles Johnson’s latest handle?

    Major Kong (fbea4f)

  9. She certainly fits Madeleine White‘s description pretty well. Except Madeleine was a bit more sophisticated in her threats I think.

    no one you know (98f5be)

  10. i mean that was her goal, right?

    Maybe.

    Patterico (135ea8)

  11. I wonder if Aliciia is a fan of F. Paul Wilson? Bet “she” is.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repairman_Jack

    Lincolntf (85daa5)

  12. Mr. Feet, nishi was the one who called Patterico a “crotchsniffer” more than once. Very well mannered. As for an inquisitive mind, she remains a braggy braggy poseur on a wide variety of topics.

    You just like her nutty deluxe syntax, and that she shares some dislikes of yours.

    But don’t take my word. Ask JD his opinion.

    On the topic at hand, I hope that Patterico and Ace give this person a deep education.

    Simon Jester (f797c0)

  13. fiddlesticks

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  14. It sounds like her understanding of anti-threat/stalking laws are based maybe on being a former defendant?

    Daryl Herbert (14c9cd)

  15. Lincolnf, Jack would ever act that way. Great series, isn’t it?

    Simon Jester (f797c0)

  16. I certainly hope you pursue this person. I see no other way to interpret the conversation. Whether it was intended as a warning, implied threat or threat, I don’t see how it matters. Your family was mentioned. “Your safety cannot be assured“? How else do you interpret that?

    Did she actually use “PAIN” as her last name somewhere? Just curious, cause that sounds like another threat, IF hear last name isn’t PAIN. Why else would a “janitor, ie fixer” pick that name? Shouldn’t she be “Miss Clean, Ms. Windex or Ms. 409“?

    cstmbuild (be02cc)

  17. Simon, yup. I’ve only read the first two so far (on the recommendation of the Ace Sunday Book Thread), but I’m planning on knocking off another couple this summer.

    Lincolntf (85daa5)

  18. I have relayed my disappointment to Mr. Reid (not his real name) as well. She has decided she will respect my concerns.

    Did we already know that “Mr. Reid” was actually a she?

    diggrbiii (98c6fb)

  19. Oh, anyway, I meant the description of “herself” as a “janitor” who “fixes unconventional problems”. Right out of central casting.

    Lincolntf (85daa5)

  20. How do we know this “Alicia” isn’t another middle-aged guy still in college?

    Arizona Bob (aa856e)

  21. The back-and-forth ‘Oh,yeah? Is too!’ repartee does nothing for the image of a brutal enforcer.

    nickless (a5a464)

  22. This crap is unreal, man. Most likely a total fraud, but nevertheless be careful mi amigo.

    Hube (1e89bf)

  23. So, basically, this “janitor” put up a “Wet Floor” sign, and everyone just walked across the freshly mopped floor with their muddy boots anyway. Now they’ll have to “mop” again.

    RB (3323dc)

  24. By the way, I just stuffed the toilet with paper towels and flushed, so where’s MY death threat? Huh? Huh?

    RB (3323dc)

  25. The FBI needs to be involved. When people start making threats, this goes from solving a mystery to reporting a crime. Please do not take chances Patterico. (and Ace) We still don’t know the FBI isn’t involved but they definitely now need to be.

    StillConfused (786412)

  26. I wonder how many of the Weeners technotrysters got e-mails like this after he started his “Evil hackers did it” campaign.

    f1guyus (2a84e9)

  27. “I clean up people’s problems.”
    (Gasp!) I know Alicia Pain’s true identity!!

    http://tinyurl.com/yj6v3cz

    Papa Rod (bce822)

  28. Sounds a lot like a certain lawyer that used to get the short-shrift here for his ‘opinions’ on law (can’t remember name, but he was going after that judge that had the ‘bad pics’ on his private server)

    Lord Nazh (821ae1)

  29. The Distinguished Gentleman is no longer the Distinguished Gentleman from New York, but just a common, ordinary schmuck like the rest of us — except, of course, that he gets a congressional pension and federal benefits. And while I’m sure this pains Alicia greatly, all of her letters and all of her threats can’t make the big Weiner a congressman again.

    The Dana hoping Aaron Worthing opens up the Sockpuppet Friday post soon (3e4784)

  30. Ant’ny Weiner posted on a wall
    Ant’ny Weiner had a big fall

    The Dana hoping Aaron Worthing opens up the Sockpuppet Friday post soon (3e4784)

  31. It’s AW! he’s probably bored & looking to stir up some dust.

    the slob (183af7)

  32. Ant’ny Weiner posted on a wall
    Ant’ny Weiner had a big fall
    all Alicia’s letters and all Alicia’s threats
    couldn’t make the big Weiner a congressman again.

    The Dana channeling Humpty Dumpty (3e4784)

  33. Comment by The Dana hoping Aaron Worthing opens up the Sockpuppet Friday post soon — 6/24/2011 @ 9:11 am

    Woof
    = translated as I second that motion

    Max the Sockdog (d77c52)

  34. Oh boo. #27 has defeated my cultural reference skills

    SarahW (af7312)

  35. ‘Consequent thereto’ -> ‘So’. 9:1 data compression!

    melanerpes (58e8ae)

  36. Every email “Alicia” sends lowers my evaluation of his/her age. Right now I’m thinking a fourteen-year-old. The self-important mawkish vocabulary is distinctly adolescent. Another few emails and I’m going to start wondering if they have fetal wi-fi now.

    Ken (d7a549)

  37. ‘Consequent thereto’ -> ‘So’. 9:1 data compression!

    You’re suspect! Yeah, you! I don’t know what your reputation is in this town, but after the shit you tried to pull today you can bet I’ll be looking into you. Now the business we have, heretofore, you can speak with my aforementioned attorney. Good day, gentlemen; and until that day comes, keep your ear to the grindstone.

    RB (064bd8)

  38. Stranger and stranger…

    Pat, this person’s “voice” sounds strangely reminiscent of someone named “meya” who used to comment at Jeff Goldstein’s site.

    I know you and he have a strained relationship, at best, but you may be able to contact him and see if the IP addresses are similar. Or perhaps Darleen Click could look those up for you, since Jeff is away on vacation this week.

    Just a thought.

    Bob Reed (5f2db5)

  39. meya is an unrepentant fascist

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  40. and not like one of the charmingly fashionable artistic fascists the mean kind what hate freedom and America and are all hard angles and condescension

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  41. A-freaking-men

    JD (d4001a)

  42. when Flipper die that
    a gravity of porpoise
    say it ain’t so joe!

    ColonelHaiku (2e01a7)

  43. weiner tweedle-dee
    alicia tweedle-dumb
    thru the looking glass

    ColonelHaiku (2e01a7)

  44. These emailings are incredibly dumb in the following sense:

    Don’t you think that a career prosecutor knows how to subpoena an email host (be it a hardwired ISP or a web-based mail like Yahoo), and quickly?

    Don’t you think that prosecutors receive training in JUST what to do if they are threatened? (Now, I grant you, this threat was not related to your prosecutorial duties, but the point is, the victim knows how to deal with threats.)

    This is like Kramer taking a karate swing at Jet Li and expecting to dominate the dojo. Bad Victim Selection, Alicia.

    Mitch (890cbf)

  45. Why are you wasting your time baiting an idiot? Are you scrounging for stuff to put in your blog? Do you think this is funny? Do you think it’s funny to tease someone who is mentally retarded? What is the difference?

    Ace might think it’s funny but you should know better.

    sjefgcitfi82k34rf (af21ed)

  46. If somebody out there is really exceptionally interested in keeping the Weiner story alive for some reason–

    and wants to be sure it still stays on the radar for a while–

    and wants to be sure the media and blogosphere keep speculating and publishing conveniently provided DMs and other document dumps–

    If all that– then what better way to keep the drama alive and interest up is there than to issue wordy death threats by email! (not a cryptic phone call, or another other more subtle form of communication, but an email that can also be published on the website and endlessly analyzed by all for hints and clues and hidden meanings.) What fun!

    What better way to infuriate or challenge a stalwart blog owner and searcher of truth like Patterico or Ace than to tell them to stay off of a story, when clearly guys like these will be motivated to do just the opposite.

    It worked. Patterico defiantly posted Daddy Reid’s new “information” which was picked up and linked by Ace.

    Don’t you wonder who all else may have received the identical threats/warnings last night? (I imagine Patterico knows) And don’t you love the added intrigue of the janitor having subsequent email chats with the warnee?

    God, I hope this is not indicative of what the movie industry is going to be offering us for entertainment in the future.

    elissa (2ea031)

  47. “Consequent thereto, you will have to deal with the consequences of your actions, whatever those consequences may entail.”

    I love it when dumb people try to sound smart.

    Demosthenes (f87dab)

  48. This morning Ace said he contacted the police.

    John P. Squibob (882a08)

  49. Isn’t Alicia the lead attorney charactor on the TV show “The Good Wife”

    phaedruscj (3da70c)

  50. That’s the lamest threat I ever heard in my life.

    Typical leftist. They can’t do ANYTHING right.

    Well, they can use the government to steal money from people…but, that’s about the extent of their talents.

    Dave Surls (30be6c)

  51. I think the rule of “threes” applies here and that this is yet another fat-white-selfloathing-40′s-Male-Liberal pretending to be a H8 spewing Lesbian for “credibility”.

    Call it the RachelMaddow effect.

    DANEgerus (c4ffb8)

  52. Sounds like Jodie Foster’s character in that movie with Christopher Plummer (sp?) and the bank financed with Nazi money – can’t remember the name…

    janetoo (74b46c)

  53. Alicia will never be the pro Winston Wolf was.

    Quilly Mammoth (ce347b)

  54. elissa, perhaps you’re right and this is just a lame effort at reverse psychology. Though I don’t see why that was needed with Patterico, who is obviously on the story already.

    Maybe they just wanted to sex it up?

    My guess is it’s a very disturbed individual. Someone who is mad enough to break this basic social convention of not scaring people is quite mad. So they sound very stupid… doesn’t mean it’s not scary.

    I would be scared if I got a threat like that. Some drooling imbecile partisan acting out? Unlikely, but possible.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  55. Has anybody checked to see what the unlamented Deb Frisch is doing lately?

    Pat Patterson (62a622)

  56. It sounds like her understanding of anti-threat/stalking laws are based maybe on being a former defendant?

    Now that could be a possibility. A code pinker?

    sherlock (d77c52)

  57. Ryan Toledo is a fantastic name. Just think of any number of situations.

    WHO did your hair?
    Ryan Toledo

    WHO’s the new attorney?
    Ryan Toledo

    Who’s that actor on CSI?
    Ryan Toledo

    Who did you know in high school?
    Ryan Toledo

    What do want from the deli?
    Rye ‘n toledo hold the mayo

    Vermont Neighbor (352bcf)

  58. Janetoo: The movie you’re thinking of is “Inside Man,” starring Denzel Washington and Clive Owen.

    Joshua (9ede0e)

  59. Regarding the redacted phone number for the LA District Attorney’s Stalking and Threat Assessment Team, a google search for “Stalking and Threat Assessment Team” provides results where the first link is to a page showing the full number.

    http://da.co.la.ca.us/stalking/

    Looks to me like an effort to appear “in the know”, yet mysteriously vague.

    Reno_Dave (1878f9)

  60. LOL.

    MOG (7d2a2c)

  61. I’m sure we could rustle up a few of penal codes to forward for this knucklehead to review.

    MOG (7d2a2c)

  62. This is not funny. If this person threatened you like this, Patrick, you can bet the same tactics have been done to others.

    I say follow it through … expose this person and get them on Internet threats.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  63. And I’m talking beyond you and “Ace.”

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  64. I eat a busch
    you talkin’ out yer azz so
    what’s new pussycat?

    ColonelHaiku (2e01a7)

  65. Be more polite to Ms. Busch, please. She’s absolutely right in this case.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  66. Anita Busch knows how it feels to be targeted and threatened.

    DRJ (fdd243)

  67. We are all just a bunch of crazed whackjobs and Bachman is an embarrassment to the world. And global warming.

    And, kyoto.

    JD (85b089)

  68. Comment by DRJ — 6/24/2011 @ 3:29 pm

    Good to see you drop by, you’re missed by many.

    AD-RtR/OS! (06f36f)

  69. Now now, Patrick… We all know it isn’t a threat if you aren’t scared…

    Scott Jacobs (ff8f07)

  70. so sorry ms. busch
    colonel misspoke and lose face
    must fall on sword now

    ColonelHaiku (2e01a7)

  71. must fall on sword now

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 6

    Sorry if I came across as a nanny. I did ask nicely, though. Usually I’m a little less polite, I know, but I like you and know you’re just kidding around. Anyway, Anita’s definitely one of the good guys, and even though I think she’s a crazy liberal, I respect her a lot.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  72. Dude, take it seriously. For these reasons:

    1- Threats should be pushed back against. On principle. Who do these scumbags think they are?

    2- ‘She’ might seem like some sad loser, but who do you think buys a gun and shoots some congress woman, well-adjusted winners? Of course these people are pathetic and unscary cowards in person, that doesn’t make them incapable of doing something horrible. PROSECUTE.

    3- The patheticness of the threatener is irrelevant to the effect of the threat, the intent is to make the threatened person or entity feel insecure in a free society and curtail his her or it’s right to free expression. That isn’t a joke. PUNISH PURSUE PROSECUTE.

    And for one final reason although it may sound selfish: as a person acquainted with the legal system you are in a position to do so. I, and millions of others like me are not. We need people who are going to hit back hard against this kind of criminal, and yes, that’s what ‘she’ is.

    Amos (5d4a74)

  73. Anita Busch knows how it feels to be targeted and threatened.

    Comment by DRJ — 6/24/2011 @ 3:29 p

    I wasn’t familiar with that situation DRJ. I just read Pat’s post about the poor women and her horrific treatment. How in the world did that happen in a modern city news office? Corruption doesn’t even begin to describe the problem. I begin to understand why people have such intense hatred for the LA Times.

    bmertz (d77c52)


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