Patterico's Pontifications

5/23/2011

Protesting Sexism in Saudi Arabia

Filed under: General — Aaron Worthing @ 10:20 am



[Guest post by Aaron Worthing; if you have tips, please send them here.  Or by Twitter @AaronWorthing.]

You know for all the talk about things like the Everyone Draw Mohammed movement, if you want really brave protesters, you have to go to the middle east and/or Muslims countries (not to mention countries such as China).  For instance there was Shahbaz Bhatti, the man assassinated for questioning Pakistan’s laws that make blasphemy a capital offense:

It’s a tad more impressive than a crappy drawing of Mohammed (pedophilia be upon him) made in Manassas, Virginia, to be blunt.  Which isn’t to say I don’t appreciate everyone’s efforts, but not all acts of protest are equally brave.  And then there is this rebellious woman:

It doesn’t look like much, but given that this is in Saudi Arabia, this is a revolutionary act.  And the jackboots of gender segregation are coming down on her neck:

Authorities detained a Saudi woman on Saturday after she launched a campaign against the driving ban for women in the ultraconservative kingdom and posted a video of herself behind the wheel on Facebook and YouTube to encourage others to copy her.

Manal al-Sherif and a group of other women started a Facebook page called “Teach me how to drive so I can protect myself,” which urges authorities to lift the driving ban. She went on a test drive in the eastern city of Khobar and later posted a video of the experience.

“This is a volunteer campaign to help the girls of this country” learn to drive, al-Sherif says in the video. “At least for times of emergency, God forbid. What if whoever is driving them gets a heart attack?”

Well, that is certainly a sound argument, but Saudi Arabia has a poor record when it comes to choosing between gender discrimination and human safety.

And none of that forgets the brave people standing up in places like Syria. But I found this one to be particularly interesting.

Hat tip: The Daily Caller.

[Posted and authored by Aaron Worthing.]

84 Responses to “Protesting Sexism in Saudi Arabia”

  1. Saudi Arabia is run by royal perverts what hate freedom only slightly more than they hate womens.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  2. I think NOW is still busy protesting that Florida decision requiring no Islamic face veils on driver license photos.

    jim2 (a9ab88)

  3. 😆 NOW is so predictable.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  4. get your motor running!

    head out on the highway!

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  5. Ultraconservative?

    Losers trying to portray the Saudi Arabian government as right wing when they aren’t.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  6. Unintended irony in comment #1 wif our own misogynistic pikachu whiny about other people hating wimmins.

    Night is day.

    Black is white.

    Up is down.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  7. that’s not very nice Mr. daley I’m not even slightly misogynist – I actually believe women should have a lot more rights than you think they should have

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  8. talk to me about misogyny when little catholic hoochies can grow up to be priests Mr. daley, and when you no longer advocate forcing scared poor luckless girls to have rape babies for Jesus

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  9. happyfeet,
    The “rape babies” remark is a fair one, to be sure; these folks should convince girls to carry babies to term and not believe it’s right to use the force of law to compel them. While it’s fair game to advocate for not using government funds to pay for abortion, it’s another thing altogether to impose one’s reliously driven belief on others in a society like ours where freedom of religious belief and association is a central ideal.

    But I’m not sure about characterizing Catholics as misogynistic is as correct. Just because a tenet of the faith holds that only men can be ordained as Priests in the religion doesn’t mean that they advocate Saudi-like repression. I mean, that’s a bit of a stretch, don’t you think?

    Just sayin’

    Bob Reed (5f2db5)

  10. um, not letting a woman be a priest in a private organization is not the same as a state refusing to let a woman drive.

    as for “rape babies” what does sexism even have to do with it?

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  11. Crappyfeet hates gay babies he is a homophobe.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  12. I do not wish to characterize Catholics as misogynist Mr. Reed let me correct that impression.

    In the spirit of the post I only wish to advocate for the expanded rights of womens! I used as examples to Mr. daley that I feel womens should have the option to become priests if they feel that is their calling, and to have their own moral agency, as individuals, apply to their choices about abortion. These are rights I will occasionally lend my voice to, but here they serve primarily as a rebuke to Mr. daley’s callous labeling of me as a “misogynist” little pikachu. I would submit that it is he who is far more sympathetic to a constraining of the rights of the fairer sex.

    I would have the good Mr. daley know that I most certainly am NOT a misogynist and I come form a long line of non-misogynist pikachu stock.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  13. *from* I mean

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  14. my own momma was a womens!

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  15. So why do you hate babies born with the ”gay gene”?

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  16. Obama is a neocon?

    How is Obama a disgruntled lefty turned towards the right?

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  17. all babies are cute!

    Even the flat-headed parched midget crippled farm babies who circle ned beatty going ”whee whee whee/ pick me!” are cute.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  18. (h/t Mr. buttons, wherever you are)

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  19. ==Just because a tenet of the faith holds that only men can be ordained as Priests in the religion doesn’t mean….==

    I don’t want to get off the important point of this thread about brave Saudi women, but since you put this statement out there Bob, —have you ever had a meaningful and frank discussion on this Priest topic with any female Catholics? Just wondering. (Because I’d guess not.)

    elissa (d174d2)

  20. “I would have the good Mr. daley know that I most certainly am NOT a misogynist and I come form a long line of non-misogynist pikachu stock.”

    Delusional Misogynistic Pikachu – Are you Seriously suggesting people forget about your nonstop mental diarrhea of misogynistic comments regarding a variety of conservative women? I would hope in all insouciance that could not be the case, because that unhinged chain of mental flatulence serves to drive many commenters from threads and to see you blithely try to dodge responsibility for it would be unseemly, even cowardly, to say the least.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  21. So why do you want gay babies to be aborted?

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  22. I can’t but note Mr. daley that your latest commenting has not at all the semblance of an apology.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  23. “I can’t but note Mr. daley that your latest commenting has not at all the semblance of an apology.”

    Misogynistfeets – Unless you are suggesting something like your words are misogynist, but your thoughts are not, I believe your thinking of who owes an apology here is reversed.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  24. hmmmph

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  25. I just cannot help but note that as I eat my tasty bean wif bacon soup, $0.99 per can, which is value.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  26. that’s even tastier with a dollop of low-fat sour creams and half a spoonful of mushed up chipotle pepper

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  27. this kind is value and one can lasts forever

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  28. and maybe garnish with the fresh cilantros especially cause almost every time I buy the cilantros I don’t use em up before they get unappealing-looking

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  29. As a matter of fact elissa, I have; more than a few times, with Dominiacan and Benedictine Sisters as well as priests from many different orders, in an RCIA ministry group I serve in as well as a few other scriptual and prayer groups I participate in at my parish and in the larger diocese.

    Why would you think otherwise?

    Bob Reed (5f2db5)

  30. Bob Reed, thank you for your reply. But to be more clear, I meant talking to female Catholic parishioners who are not Sisters or part of the church heirarchy. I am not Catholic myself but among the many friends and acquaintences I have who are Catholic, and with whom I have discussed at length the barring of women from the Priesthood, I can’t think even one of them who defends it as a sacred “tenet of the faith”. To the contrary they see it as an archaic and sexist remaider of the past and hope that sooner or later a Pope or a few brave Cardinals will step forward to right things for the 21st century.

    Perhaps I completely misinterpreted your earlier post about this, (and if so, I apologize) but I took your comment to suggest that you believe that American Catholic lay persons as a group pretty much unquestioningly accept and support an ongoing male only Priesthood as a tenet of the faith. Maybe many do. But many do not and are very vocal about it.

    elissa (d174d2)

  31. Happyfeet hates women I guess he is the s*ut-shamer ludwigvanquioxte.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  32. Well elissa, perhaps in your circle of friends there are those who question the magesterium of the church with respect to only men being able to take part in the vocation of the priesthood.

    But I must say, with all due respect, that largely schismatics hold to the belief that it is an archaic and sexist remainder of the past. I have to ask, do these same people believe that the Church should embrace nationalized healthcare, regardless of the possibility it will be twisted to inculde on demand abortion, because it by and larger satisfies their notion of “social justice”?

    There are many tenets of the faith that American Catholics disagree with, and would like to think they can superimpose modern secular thinking onto the faith. Unfortunately this isn’t the case, as these practice were put in place after much inspired contemplation of scripture and/or are the continuation of sacred tradition that dates from when Christ walked the earth. By and large they are non-negotiable…

    Even here, in NY, I haven’t caught wind among the laypersons of the thoughts you describe. Although I’m aware that in Chicago and on the west coast they are more prevalent.

    Folks that are dis-satisfied with the practices of the church might consider Episcopalian or Anglican Christian churches, that don’t have the same prohibitions to contraception or the ordination of women.

    I guess it’s all a matter of the circles one socializes in, and the region one lives in.

    My Regards

    Bob Reed (5f2db5)

  33. Here’s an American Catholic second to elissa’s remarks at #31. By and large, the American church is way ahead of Rome on this issue. This is particularly true in the L.A. Archdiocese, where the role of women in the liturgy has grown significantly — a harbinger, hopefully, of things to come. For all his faults, Mahony showed courage on this and other issues. My sense is that the laity here has been supportive. I think there is a wide expectation that the ordination of women will ultimately become a reality.

    angeleno (86cd6a)

  34. Saudi Arabia is also a homophobic place makes the westboro baptist church look like pikers.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  35. == I have to ask, do these same people believe that the Church should embrace nationalized healthcare==

    OK, Bob, that made me laugh out loud. I thought prolly anyone who spends time here on Patterico with regularity as you do, would already know that I don’t hang out with, or muchly socialize with, persons who embrace nationalized healthcare.

    So to answer your question: NO.

    elissa (d174d2)

  36. This one made me laugh:


    “…that’s not very nice Mr. daley I’m not even slightly misogynist – I actually believe women should have a lot more rights than you think they should have…”

    Hey, daley? Who knew that your mind could be read? For a person who thinks he is misunderstood (based on his words), this is pretty hilariously ironic.

    Simon Jester (0fcf07)

  37. Simon – Apparently only wimmins what don’t agree wif Mr. Misogyfeets views get the sexist treatment, but that does not make him a misogynist, or something. Agree or be smeared, like a tolerant liberal.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  38. I’m pretty damn awesome.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  39. Crapyyfeet’s mom kicked him in the balls repeatedly while he was a child which is why he fears and resents all women.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  40. elissa,
    Are you on the west coast like angeleno? Just curious. I’m in NY near NYC.

    The laity is very involved here too, both sexes and all ages. I just don’t hear much about defying the magesterium here. Maybe it’s provincial to my locale.

    Perhaps it’s indicative that, although I live an area largely populated by first generation immigrants, there’s also not much patience with the Pastors who defy US law and harbor undocumented immigrants. Perhaps that’s because they personally had to check off all the boxes themselves, who knows. But outside of us all being part of the family of God, in Christ, the folks here accept the traditional teachings and have a “render unto Caesar that which is Caerar’s, and unto God that which belongs to God…”, with regards to respecting US sovereignty and secular laws.

    I’m glad I could give you a laugh. I don’t really hang out here as much as you give me credit for :)

    My Regards

    Bob Reed (5f2db5)

  41. You are pretty darn awesome :)

    Bob Reed (5f2db5)

  42. thanks Mr. Bob!

    back atcha!

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  43. Just remember, daley: if a person can make such a definitive statement about what you believe…and state that they are superior because of their statement…well, a person can’t complain when that is done to them!

    Which I wouldn’t call awesome. With or without wilted cilantro. And no, that’s not code.

    Simon Jester (0fcf07)

  44. Simon – Wilted cilantro is value, especially if blend it into some guac.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  45. guacamole is a sometimes food

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  46. He wasn’t talking to you happyvagina.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  47. ==Are you on the west coast==

    Uh, no Bob. But I’m afraid I must confess to being from that other metropolis which you earlier named as possibly harboring bad Catholics.

    elissa (d174d2)

  48. Well that’s interesting elissa,

    I’ve always liked that toddlin’ town 😉 I’m adjacent to Queens, NYC myself.

    Best Wishes

    Bob Reed (5f2db5)

  49. Will lady gaga join the protest?

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  50. _____________________________________

    Ultraconservative?

    I’d say it is. The knee-jerk reactions that inspire the extremist policies of Saudi Arabia have to be classified as of the right.

    But what’s truly revealing about that is the way a variety of liberals throughout the Western World have been less bothered by, or indignant about, such rightism — because it involves non-Anglo, non-Western, Third-World type people — than they have been by far, far, far milder instances of conservatism emanating from societies like the US or Europe.

    Moreover, such leftists also rationalize away the ultra-liberalism of Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro. And before today, “progressives” were notorious for feeling pangs of warmth towards the former Soviet Union. IOW, they truly were, and are, ass backwards.

    I have no trouble identifying something or someone as being too rightwing or as ultra-conservative. By contrast, I don’t think as many liberals are willing to characterize something (or someone) as being too leftwing or as ultra-liberal.

    Mark (3e3a7c)

  51. The mainline Protestant Churches that go down the female ordination route inevitably go down the homosexual ordination route, then dwindle and will, in due course, die. Too bad, because mainline Protestantism had much to offer, and was — in its original forms — the founding faith of the US.

    stari_momak (d5f987)

  52. My favorite parsons were both ladies (Methodists).

    Never heard a syllable about gayness, pro or con, in many years going to church. I haven’t been a regular church member in some time, and interestingly, a series of sermons on illegal immigration, from a preacher (not a favorite, but happened to be female), was a major reason I gave up on it.

    It used to be that you could go to church, read a lengthy story from the Bible, and discuss what it meant to us in a practical sense. Now, the churches I’ve tried in the area are powerpoint presentations, hymns are dumbed down rock concerts/ego displays, and the messages are often out of left field, or simply the Pastor’s lighthearted values.

    I don’t blame churches for that. I think it’s a reflection of how a lot of people in my neck of the woods don’t want the kind of thing I want.

    In the spirit of the post I only wish to advocate for the expanded rights of womens!

    Let’s start with their right to be born.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  53. whatever right they have to be born isn’t one what is appropriately safeguarded by America’s already miserably overweening, faily, and morally-risible government – limited government is limited government – if the government has a right to force birthings then they have a right to dictate pretty much all the care and feeding and educationings and et cetera and ad infinitum

    people should make their own choices and then later they can stand before God and say ok God here’s what I was thinking there let me splain for you

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  54. Plus a military ain’t a real military wifout officially sanctioned sodomy, or something.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  55. Stari getting it’s sexism on.

    Look if catholic churches want to allow homosexuals in their ranks they better not whine when their altar boys get raped.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  56. One’s rights only extend to the point where they do not intrude on another’s rights. That’s why some say fetuses don’t have a right to be born, since that intrudes on a woman’s right to not deal with the birth.

    It’s like saying pedestrians don’t have the right of way on crosswalks because that would slow down the cars.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  57. some fetuses are luckless creature whilst others are very fortunate indeed

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  58. *creatures* I mean jeeze it’s cause all the milk is expired so I haven’t had coffee

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  59. “whatever right they have to be born isn’t one what is appropriately safeguarded by America’s already miserably overweening, faily, and morally-risible government”

    Misogyfeets – The question more on the table recently, because you seem to need reminding, is whether America’s already miserably overweening, faily, and morally-risible government should pay for slicing and dicing the not borned fetuses and whether somebody who says that America’s already miserably overweening, faily, and morally-risible government should not pay for such slicing and dicing should be labeled a miserable trailer trash cum slut by folks such as yourself is what I think the real issue is myself.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  60. Misogyfeets – Your mileage may differ.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  61. of course the government shouldn’t pay for abortions I never said they should

    my whole I never said that

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  62. maybe you’re thinking of cupcakes?

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  63. Ya know it’s damn shame yo mama did not believe in the right to abort.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  64. oh. that was supposed to say my whole *life* I never said that

    My mom was pro-choice also so was my dad. Both my mom and dad were pro-choice. They believed the government didn’t have any business interfering with those sorts of decisions. They were very staunch conservatives.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  65. Perhaps I completely misinterpreted your earlier post about this, (and if so, I apologize) but I took your comment to suggest that you believe that American Catholic lay persons as a group pretty much unquestioningly accept and support an ongoing male only Priesthood as a tenet of the faith. Maybe many do. But many do not and are very vocal about it.

    Comment by elissa — 5/23/2011 @ 3:04 pm

    Can only speak for myself but am a female Catholic (relatively young I might add), post-Vatican II as we say, and while I do respect elissa and others’ views on this I don’t believe women should be priests.

    It’s not a matter of sexism or “power”. It’s a matter of roles. There are roles, both in the family (the world) and in the Church that men cannot fill. For example, “consecrated virginity” as a formal vocation is ONLY open to women and men, even if they’re virgins, cannot represent “the Church as bride to Jesus Christ the groom” (the biblical image). Similarly, priests represent Christ, who chose to come into the world as a male and who represent the “groom” to the Church’s “bride.” They “marry” the Church in a very real sense and vocations aren’t about doing things only, but about being a picture, or witness, of Christ’s relation to the world.

    Another example: Christian married couples are ideally supposed to be, according to the Bible, literally a picture to the world of what Jesus’ relation to the Church is, in eternity.

    It’s a complex subject about which I could bore everyone to death w/ pages (and wouldn’t do justice to the Church’s teaching on the role of priests anyway) but no one said it better IMO than Pope John Paul II in his apostolic letter addressing this very subject. It’s very short as these letters go, and for those who are interested, here’s the link.

    Here’s my favorite line and the money quote from the apostolic letter, making the point that men and women are equal but the Church is about showing all aspects of God’s love to the world, each in our own way:

    Moreover, it is to the holiness of the faithful that the hierarchical structure of the Church is totally ordered. For this reason, the Declaration Inter Insigniores recalls: “the only better gift, which can and must be desired, is love (cf. 1 Cor 12 and 13). The greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven are not the ministers [priests and bishops] but the saints.” [emphasis added]

    no one you know (325a59)

  66. In the spirit of the post I only wish to advocate for the expanded rights of womens!

    Let’s start with their right to be born.

    Comment by Dustin — 5/24/2011 @ 10:38 am

    +10

    no one you know (325a59)

  67. -11

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  68. +infinity neener neener

    thought since we’re talking about very young childrens I’d get into the spirit of things

    (/happyfeet style 😉 )

    no one you know (325a59)

  69. Dustin,
    in case you hadn’t seen this particular link, today via Hot Air Headlines comes yet another of many, many examples of preborn baby girls being aborted at higher rates than baby boys. Reasons vary but very rarely in any country are boys aborted at greater percentages. In fact am not aware of a single one.

    no one you know (325a59)

  70. “+infinity neener neener”

    noyk – That is value.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  71. you are a formidable debater noyk

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  72. I know when I’m bested

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  73. noyk,

    I really appreciate your comment regarding the sidebar discussion I was having with elissa. I thought you articulated the point very well, though, I fear JPII’s letter will not be too meaningful to non-Christians.

    I didn’t want to bore folks by going into the important role that women have played in the Catholic church over the millenia, both who served in a vocation and the laity…

    Oh and that who +infinity neener-neener is priceless :)

    My Regards

    Bob Reed (5f2db5)

  74. Saudi Arabia is a failed islamofascist state.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  75. noyk, no I hadn’t seen that Hot Air link. That’s so sad, because it indicates something very fundamental and awful about abortion. If someone’s willing to love the baby if it’s a boy, but kill the baby if it’s a girl, there’s no acceptable way to explain that.

    Now, in my view, even being poor with kids is better than being rich without, so much of the planned parenthood ideal didn’t matter to me anyway, but clearly there’s something else at play. Societies controlling their population in a way that shows they value human life in a fundamentally wrong way.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  76. Dustin,
    Perhaps what’s even more ominous about the growing gender disparity in India is that one exists in their regional competitor China as well.

    There has been much speculation about how this generation of mateless, perhaps sexually frustrated, men will be perfect for offensive land warfare.

    Especially in light of China and their ersatz vassal state Pakistan have long borders, and long-standing border disputes, with India.

    It’s a potential powder keg among nuclear armed states, because, it wouldn’t take long for the loser to push the button…

    Bob Reed (5f2db5)

  77. and plus they has a firewall to keep out the prons

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  78. The Hot Air link makes a sad irony so clear: females everywhere fight hard to have the legal right to abort their babies; and yet when they get that right to abort, and do, the babies they choose to abort are primarily girls.

    And why is that?

    Because females are less valued than males – especially the firstborn, especially in the third world. So what do the women who have screamed for the right to kill their babies, do? They kill the females first because they along with their male counterparts, devalue them.

    It’s difficult to wrap one’s mind around this stunning pathology.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  79. girls can wear jeans

    and cut their hair short

    wear shirts and boots

    cause it’s ok to be a boy

    but for a boy to look like a girl is degrading

    cause you think that being a girl is degrading

    but secretly you’d love to know what it’s like

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  80. It’s difficult to wrap one’s mind around this stunning pathology.

    What a poorly constructed sentence… eh…whatever… I’m too tired to really care too much…might even let a few participles dangle away…

    Dana (4eca6e)

  81. Will the PLA be any more successful than Hannibal in launching a full-scale invasion over impassible mountainous terrain?

    AD-RtR/OS! (c2826b)

  82. Dustin at 5/24 5:45 pm – India actually tried to stop the preferential abortion of females. Not by limiting abortion but by making it a crime to tell prospective parents what the sex of their unborn child was.

    Have Blue (854a6e)


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