About the Impossibility of Convincing Conspiracy Theorists… (Update: Jon Stewart Says Release the Photos!”)
[Guest post by Aaron Worthing; if you have tips, please send them here. Or by Twitter @AaronWorthing.]
Update: First, thanks for the link from Legal Insurrection who writes Post Birth Certificate Polling Shows It Wasn’t About Race, But About Evidence. Indeed he even alludes to the Best Evidence Rule thus showing that great minds think alike.
Meanwhile Jon Stewart makes the case for releasing the photos, here:
And you know what? I agree with almost all of it (except for his implication that the people asking for evidence are denying that bin Laden is dead). But I especially like the part where he argues that we Americans should face the reality of war. I support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and if Obama got permission from Congress and a clue on how to fight it, I would support the war in Libya. The cause is certainly just. But we should be aware of the costs of that decision, to go to war. We owe it to the good people who have died in those wars–as long as we are not selective in our realism and remember that there was brutality in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya long before we got there.
The original post follows.
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One of the chief arguments arrayed against releasing the photos of a dead bin Laden is the claim that the people who are not convinced already will not be convinced.
Now, I have already attacked that notion here, and I concur with pretty much everything Patrick wrote, here. But let us point out a more basic fact: even the conspiratorially inclined can be convinced.
For instance, how many people cynically said that when Obama finally released his long form birth certificate, that the birthers wouldn’t be dissuaded. And of course for some people that is true—but not everyone:
The number of Americans saying President Obama was born in another country has been sliced in half, according to a new Washington Post poll.
In interviews following the public release the president’s “long-form” birth certificate last week, fully 70 percent of Americans say Obama was born in Hawaii, a big bump-up from the 48 percent who said so a year ago. Even more say he was U.S.-born, or call that their best guess, for a total of 86 percent.
Overall, 10 percent of Americans say Obama was likely born abroad, down from 20 percent in an April 2010 Post-ABC poll. Almost all those who now say Obama was born in a foreign country say that it’s only their “suspicion;” just 1 percent claim “solid evidence” that the president was born elsewhere (9 percent said so last year).
The drop-off in the mistaken belief that Obama was not-U.S.-born has come most prominently among his sharpest critics. Today, 14 percent of Republicans say Obama was not born in the U.S., down from 31 percent in April of last year. Among the most conservative Republicans, the number of skeptics fell from 35 to 16 percent.
Read the whole thing. It also supports my belief that the very fact he had been withholding that evidence was feeding the conspiracy theories and even led non-birthers to wonder what was on his BC that he was trying to hide.
Another argument is that this is not going to have any effect on al Qaeda and potential. The argument goes like this: the terrorists are ready to die for their cause, and therefore bin Laden dying is fully expected and even welcomed. Now that is undeniably true in some cases, but bluntly, I don’t think everyone in that organization is quite so committed, and indeed there is some evidence of a first defection:
In the wake of Osama bin Laden’s demise, is al Qaeda falling apart?
The Saudi Interior Ministry said today that a senior al Qaeda member on Riyadh’s most-wanted list named Khaled al-Qahtani called from abroad and turned himself in.
“Interior Ministry’s spokesman Maj. Gen. Mansour Al-Turki said in a statement Wednesday that Khaled Hathal Abdullah al-Atifi al-Qahtani contacted the security authorities from an undisclosed country and expressed his wish to come home,” the Associated Press reports.
“Al-Qahtani was reunited with his family and his surrender will be taken into consideration while looking into his case, Al-Turki said.”
Now that’s not 100% certain, but still the argument that it will do no good imagines a purity and consistency that seems alien to me. We have never heard of ministers who preach the sanctity of marriage and the evils of homosexualilty who then turn out of be having gay affairs behind their wives’ back? We have never heard of politicians preaching the evils of corporate money while once having been the direct benefit of a corporate donation to his campaign fund? So is it hard to believe that some members of al Qaeda will tell other people that if they die in holy war, they will get seventy-two virgins in paradise, but when their own lives are threatened, tremble in fear of death? No, indeed, knowing what we know about human nature it shouldn’t shock us that many al Qaeda types preach suicide tactics while maximizing their own chances of survival. And thus seeing bin Laden dead, they might have second thoughts.
Besides there was a real chance that his ability to evade us was becoming part of his legend. And thus proving his death might take him down a notch that way, too.
So to those who think we shoudn’t release the photos… are you still convinced we shouldn’t?
[Posted and authored by Aaron Worthing.]
Obama is doing everything in his power to preserve and even enhance bin Laden’s stature –
this is what happens when you put a cowardly Nobel-winning Soros whore in your Oval Office I guess
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/5/2011 @ 10:28 amOne recall though, that one of the leaders of AQAP,
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/5/2011 @ 10:31 amwho had made a tape, in Jan, 2009, had surrendered
himself, before the christmas day bombing
I have no idea if this is accurate or nonsense. But it has the ring on truth. Pannetta basically boxed Obama/Jarrett into a corner on thisdecision, or it doesn’t happen-
http://socyberty.com/issues/white-house-insider-obama-hesitated-panetta-issued-order-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/#ixzz1LOUbqDvi
Bugg (9e308e) — 5/5/2011 @ 10:36 amhttp://neveryetmelted.com/categories/mohamed-al-harbi/
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/5/2011 @ 10:47 amIf you are aware that Obama is not a natural born citizen and a pollster calls you and asks “yes or no, was Obama born in the US?”, you will likely answer ‘no’ because it approximates the correct answer to the correct question that they failed to ask.
The pertinent poll question that they will always refuse to ask is “do you think Obama is constitutionally eligible for the presidency?” or “do you think Obama is a natural born citizen?”.
j curtis (3feec6) — 5/5/2011 @ 10:49 amI have a crazy theory that would explain the lack of photos, and maybe the dithering about it too. I’m not saying this is what I believe, but it’s an idea I had.
What if we got solid intel that he had died, maybe of natural causes or disease? Would it be crazy to think that we could turn that intel victory into a big propaganda victory by claiming that we killed him? So we attack a compound in Pakistan we know has some al-Qaida people in it, then claim we shot bin Laden. What could they say? “No, you totally didn’t kill him. We know, because he already died!” That’s not a strong response, and even if they said that few would believe them.
Then, the president makes it seem like he has the photos, but then decided not to release them for some lame reason (don’t spike the football). Most people would still buy it.
Now I would be more inclined to believe this from Bush than Obama. But I could also believe the military handed him this mission gift-wrapped and said “just say yes and we’ll handle everything.” I could sort of believe that he’d do that. And really I think it’d be clever if that’s what we did.
Rob (1858aa) — 5/5/2011 @ 10:51 amWell, first of all, I’m not CONVINCED either way. I just lean against releasing them.
But to answer your question…. no. So much of what you write is based on wishful thinking as in “if we release the photos, then AQ break down further, unicorns will fly, etc.”
Yeah….maybe.
But maybe not.
For example, you write:
It’s not hard to believe, but that doesn’t mean it will necessarily occur.
Look, turn it around. When the towers fell, when bodies fell from a quarter mile in the sky — when we saw those images, did it weaken our resolve, or strengthen it?
Strengthened, right?
And is it hard to believe that some members of AQ might react to dead OBL pictures in the same way, human nature being what it is?
Kman (5576bf) — 5/5/2011 @ 10:54 amOk, that boat has already sailed, we know the Seals killed him, we also know this administration is unconfortable with the consequences of said actions
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/5/2011 @ 10:54 amKmart hearts AW.
JD (fa4f4a) — 5/5/2011 @ 10:55 am“But to answer your question…. no. So much of what you write is based on wishful thinking”
Irony is dead!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:10 amKman
> When the towers fell, when bodies fell from a quarter mile in the sky — when we saw those images, did it weaken our resolve, or strengthen it?
Wow. Just wow. That has to be the most douchey example of moral equivalence ever.
Aaron Worthing (b1db52) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:18 amNot least because Kman seems to think that members of Al Queda will behave more politely if only we don’t release photos of OBL’s dead body.
That is the usual kind of bizarro-land logic we get from Kman.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:20 amhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1383698/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-Radical-Muslims-burial-location-Martyrs-Sea.html
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:23 amThe photos will be released before
Jack (f9fe53) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:23 amthe 2012 election.
Minor correction needed in paragraph two:
“even the conspiratorially included …” should probably be “even the conspiratorially inclined…”
Robin Munn (347954) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:26 am“Well, first of all, I’m not CONVINCED either way. I just lean against releasing them.”
Kman – Which is why you were calling people who suggested releasing them “deathers” and “loonies” here just yesterday. You just an ankle biting git to whom the truth means nothing. People here already know that, but I enjoy pointing it out nonetheless.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:26 amHey!!! I have an idea!! How about we let the American people see the pictures or NOT SEE them.
gus (36e9a7) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:29 amHow about this for an idea?? How about the GOVERNMENT stops hiding things from us. We have the RIGHT to know. We have the RIGHT to see this evidence. What is the NEED to keep this from us?
Contrast with the cries from the left that the Abu-Ghraib photos had to all be released, and the hypocrisy is all the more clear.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:36 amI’m wasn’t MAKING an example of moral equivalence, Einstein.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:38 amSPQR – or the coffins @ Dover.
JD (29e1cd) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:39 amor contrast with bumble’s insistence that his political opponents’ divorce records must be unsealed
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:39 amgus – Get with the program. Our liberal overlords know better than you what you have a need to see and what you don’t have a need to see. They also know what you should eat, what kind of a car you should drive, what kind of medical treatment you should receive and the temperature at which you should set your thermostat. I’m leaving a number of things out, but the things they know better than you about is amazing. Pretty soon you won’t have to make any decisions at all, because a “brilliant government bureaucrat” will make them for you.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:40 amgus – There will not be any need for free will under Obamunism. You can just sit back and relax.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:42 amwhorish old cow Diane Feinstein is insisting that “nothing justifies the kind of procedures that were used” to catch bin Laden
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:44 amKman
> I’m wasn’t MAKING an example of moral equivalence, Einstein.
yes, you were.
You said:
> When the towers fell, when bodies fell from a quarter mile in the sky — when we saw those images, did it weaken our resolve, or strengthen it?
You think killing the man who did that is the same as doing that. you think that the outrage we felt at 3,000 innocents is the same as the outrage they will feel at the killing of the man responsible for killing those innocents.
Every now and then i start to forget what a scummy human being you are. and then you remind me.
Aaron Worthing (b1db52) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:45 amRobin
thanks for pointing out my brain f-rt. fixed.
Aaron Worthing (b1db52) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:47 amOK, so the Saudis (not exactly our friends) have said that ONE AQ member has “surrendered” from another nation? Is that supposed to be earth shattering?
Meanwhile, Pakistanis, who protected bin Laden, are burning American flags in the streets.
Would anyone like to tell me how many radical Islamists have laid down their AK-47s saying that since the U.S. is such a nice nation to give ObL a Muslim funeral and won’t show pictures of him they don’t want to kill us anymore?
In Islam, it is not allowed to show pictures of Mohammed, Obama has elevated ObL to the same status.
retire05 (2d538e) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:54 amIt is OK to show Daniel Pearle’s beheading. And the pictures of burned, dead Americans hanging from a bridge, or the captured American soldiers who were later beheaded, or Saddam’s dead sons, a dead al Zarqawi, but not a dead Osama?
WFT? is really Obama’s new campaign motto.
retire05 (2d538e) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:57 amSo flag-covered coffins? You were against the ban on photographs of those?
What about dead (unidentifiable) U.S. soldiers in the battlefield?
I ask because there seems to be two parallel arguments when it comes to releasing the OBL photos. One is the “propaganda argument”, and one is the “reality argument”.
Releasing the OBL photos in order to get some group of people to think something, or to act a certain way — that strikes me as propaganda usage, and I’m generally against that… mostly because I don’t think it will WORK.
However, if you’re raising a “reality argument” — i.e., the photos should be released because, well, they are historical fact — I find that argument much more persuasive (I think Gus, here in the comments, is making that same argument).
Kman (5576bf) — 5/5/2011 @ 11:58 amYes, bin Laden followers would feel outrage over his demise, just as we felt outrage over 9/11. But I wasn’t making a moral equivalence between OBL’s death and the death of 3,000 Americans, and you know that damn well (unless you’re stupid). It’s insipid how you try to twist things in order to avoid having a reasonable debate.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:03 pmHush, liar. Anyone that does not agree with kmart is a loony deather.
JD (b98cae) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:04 pmKmart – when you type something like that, how do you keep your head from assploding?
JD (85b089) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:07 pmKman still doesn’t get that the bin Laden followers were not on some verge of loving the US before his death.
Truly a bizarre view of reality on display here with Kman.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:18 pmI DO get that. That’s why I’m not among those wishful thinkers who imagine that AQ will dry up simply by releasing a dead OBL photo.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:23 pmhttp://minx.cc/?post=315782
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:25 pmKman
> Yes, bin Laden followers would feel outrage over his demise, just as we felt outrage over 9/11. But I wasn’t making a moral equivalence between OBL’s death and the death of 3,000 Americans, and you know that damn well (unless you’re stupid).
No only were you doing that, but you just did that again. and trying to deflect by saying i am either being dishonest or stupid won’t work.
You wrote, after all:
> When the towers fell, when bodies fell from a quarter mile in the sky — when we saw those images, did it weaken our resolve, or strengthen it?
And to repeat myself:
> You think killing the man who did that is the same as doing that. you think that the outrage we felt at 3,000 innocents is the same as the outrage they will feel at the killing of the man responsible for killing those innocents.
Aaron Worthing (b1db52) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:26 pmKman, this logic thing is really giving you fits, isn’t it?
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:28 pmKmans problem is that he simply hasn’t chosen sides, or he has and just chooses to side with the enemy. If you choose a side then the decision to show the Osama photos and to not show the photos of dead American service members is an easy and understandable one.
Makewi (0864f9) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:28 pmDaleyrocks, they know what size my toilet tank should be and what type of lightbulbs I may use.
gus (36e9a7) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:33 pmK-man is the typical libtard. No morals, yet he postures himself a morally superior. He is good. We are heathens. It’s silly. Libtards like Opie the Kenyan don’t make their decisions vis a vis right vs wrong. It’s all political. What will give me an edge or power, is how libtards decide.
gus (36e9a7) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:35 pmLOL. Okay, AW. I’ll let you off the hook.
Basically, whenever I read something you write about me that begins with the words “you think…”, it’s a virtual certainty that what follows those words is bullsh*t. You can’t address the point I’m actually making, so you have to create a strawman, and attack that. That’s why you have to make stuff up about what I (supposedly) think.
That’s fine, but aren’t you even a LITTLE embarrassed? It’s so amateur. Might as well wave a white flag.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:38 pm“I DO get that. That’s why I’m not among those wishful thinkers who imagine that AQ will dry up simply by releasing a dead OBL photo.”
Kman – Good thing nobody has claimed the strawman you erected in the sentence you wrote above. Pitiful.
I am impressed by how tapped in to the Muslim mind you claim to be, seeming as how to are able to predict their thoughts in your comments rather than expressing them merely as your wishful thinking or unsupported suppositions.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:39 pm“Daleyrocks, they know what size my toilet tank should be and what type of lightbulbs I may use.”
gus – I was completely confident you would catch on!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:41 pmKman
I’m not letting you off the hook.
You made a moral equivalence argument between 9-11 and killing bin laden. I know you desperately want to squirm out of it, but I’m not letting you off that easy.
You are a despicable human being.
Aaron Worthing (b1db52) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:41 pmwhere Obama goes to church they say that America deserved 9/11 cause of the chickens
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:44 pm“You can’t address the point I’m actually making”
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:44 pmhttp://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/05/05/father_of_911_victim_obama_putting_too_much_spotlight_on_himself.html
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:45 pmWhen obama goes to church the church dude says we deserve 9-11 because of chickens coming home to roost.
Added words on for ya.
You can’t address the point i’am making
You owe me a new irony meter amigo.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:47 pmwe should hire people for to shoo away the chickens I think
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:49 pmYou mean democrats right if so I agree.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:50 pmor M’chelle’s posse of grotesquely obsese children might could do it for the exercise
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:53 pmAW:
Hahahaha! Wow! That strawman is getting strawier with each iteration. Pretty soon (or someday in the future) you’ll no doubt type: “Why, I remember the day when you said that killing bin Laden was just as morally reprehensible as 9-11.”
First of all, the argument was a comparison between the RESPONSE to 9/11 from Americans with the RESPONSE to bin Laden’s death from OBL supporters.
In both cases, there was outrage. What I said was not only uncontroversial, but it is undeniably true.
And secondly, to repeat myself, I wasn’t making a moral judgment at all. About anything.
You can layer over what I said all you want, but it only demonstrates that you are either (a) incapable of reading and understanding plain English or (b) you’re a two-bit hack who can’t debate without engaging in creating fictionalized accounts to support ad hominem arguments.
You’re not kidding anybody other than your handful of supporting sycophants. Amateur time at Patterico.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/5/2011 @ 12:55 pmShoo them chickens my way; the weather’s bee-yoo-ti-ful here, and I need to grill ’em in honor of the stealth helo bird that got grilled during the revocation of bin Laden’s breathing permit…
Bob Reed (5f2db5) — 5/5/2011 @ 1:00 pmYou accuse someone of having sycophants?
I can only take so much irony.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/5/2011 @ 1:00 pmKman – A suggestion, if you don’t want people to think you made a moral equivalence between 9/11 and killing Bin Laden, don’t write one. Don’t blame others for your crappy writing or having to walk back things in your own comments. This is a constant lament of yours.
“That’s not what I meant” – But that’s what you wrote. It your problem, not that of others. Grow up and grow a pair.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/5/2011 @ 1:04 pmKman
Yeah, you compare the outrage over killing bin laden with the outrage over 9-11, and find them equivalent.
your words:
> When the towers fell, when bodies fell from a quarter mile in the sky — when we saw those images, did it weaken our resolve, or strengthen it?
And therefore, you argued, AQ won’t have its resolve weakened by this.
Yeah, no moral equivalence there.
Aaron Worthing (b1db52) — 5/5/2011 @ 1:04 pmI’ll go with douchebaggery and blameshifting for $500 Chuck.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/5/2011 @ 1:05 pmKman, what have i told you about personal insults?
Aaron Worthing (b1db52) — 5/5/2011 @ 1:16 pmCare to revise your answer, Kman? We can do this all day.
Aaron Worthing (b1db52) — 5/5/2011 @ 1:20 pmAll religions have something which we might find morally wrong but Islam gets a pass.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/5/2011 @ 1:21 pmYou can hide evidence of Jeremiah Wright being a jew hating retard but that won’t cange the truth….I hope
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/5/2011 @ 1:29 pmChange*
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/5/2011 @ 1:29 pmhey did you guys hear something? a fluttering?
Aaron Worthing (b1db52) — 5/5/2011 @ 1:37 pmhttp://www.chequerboard.org/2011/05/open-questions-for-andrew-sullivan/
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/5/2011 @ 1:38 pmIt was a comparison, just not a moral comparison, therefore kmart is just a douche, not a moral douche.
JD (822109) — 5/5/2011 @ 1:44 pmKman, when they showed the prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib, were you for it? Did you worry about what could happen to any of our troops then?
And your “strawman” arguments seem to be that you learned that word ‘strawman”, you liked that word and now you try to use it at all times to some how make someone think you know what the hell you’re talking about.
Release the damn photos. And quit with this “it will make them not like us”. What part of “they don’t like you anyways and want to cut your friggin throat, don’t you understand?”
Spec Ops Mom (267713) — 5/5/2011 @ 2:14 pmOh look- Gallup did a poll to see how much of a bump up in approval Obama got after getting Bin Laden….
http://www.gallup.com/poll/147437/Obama-Approval-Rallies-Six-Points-Bin-Laden-Death.aspx
6%
And ya-the margin of error was 3%.
I think the Obama Administration stepped on their own spike or somethin’….
madawaskan (e26bf2) — 5/5/2011 @ 2:17 pmTrying to defend yourself is pointless, Kman; what we’re seeing is that occasional and mysterious brain fart that makes normally intelligent men drool and repeat themselves. You must have done something really bad here in the past to make people so willfully blind to such an obvious and non-controversial point. This is DEEP, religious-like misunderstanding going on here. And I usually love AW! It’s kind of scary to watch this sort of thing happen to smart people.
J-man (fa1cca) — 5/5/2011 @ 2:22 pmFirstly I believe Obama should release those pictures as I have stated on this blog. But I am beginning to think that maybe there might be some political advantage in holding back these photos for now.. hmmmm.. naughty naughty…
The Emperor (ae2f40) — 5/5/2011 @ 2:22 pmJust a thought.
Obama might benefit from a second Bin Laden bounce if he tries to hold back the photos until closer to the 2012 election, but it could also create more doubts about him — similar to the delayed birth certificate release.
DRJ (fdd243) — 5/5/2011 @ 2:28 pm@DRJ, it now becomes an issue of the margin between the bounce and the doubt.
The Emperor (e0cf74) — 5/5/2011 @ 2:35 pmTrue. It probably wouldn’t change the minds of people who already like or dislike Obama, but it might sway some undecideds and the Ann Althouses in the world.
DRJ (fdd243) — 5/5/2011 @ 2:42 pm“Obama might benefit from a second Bin Laden bounce if he tries to hold back the photos until closer to the 2012 election, but it could also create more doubts about him — similar to the delayed birth certificate release.”
DRJ – I think the real problem is that Obama is not used to making quick decisions. He does not like that pressure. He needs time to dither. Saying no right now buys him time to dither and change his mind later if he so chooses, but his reasoning makes him look silly.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/5/2011 @ 3:13 pmOh look Kman-s brother Jman is running defense.
My a*s you like AW.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/5/2011 @ 3:17 pmOur president had already showed his US passport to;
1. Get a Passport; http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/03/20/obamas…
2. Become a US Senator;
I feel sorry for all the little Birthers, It’s not their fault; it’s your families’ fault that taught you that you were better than other people based on race, creed ethnicity, color, nationality or sex, in short they engrained in you their hate (what a legacy).
But you know at some point you need to grow up and act like an adult and think for yourself and distinguish what is true and what is BS.
But there is where the little Birthers find yourself because we all know it was never about a birth certificate or grades, because we all know you want to go around wearing white sheets, burn crosses and hang people who are not like you, we know that your growth is stunted in your hate, and hate is what this is all about, you will never win anymore, and I feel sorry for all of you. I can only imagine when our President is re-elected what you phonies will lie about next. Oh, and just know, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it’s a duck, the little Birthers are a bunch of racists!
Montana (d10380) — 5/5/2011 @ 3:39 pmObama is not going to spike the football, that is not who we are. He will stage a political event at Ground Zero, where he high five’s himself, then uses http://www.gutsycall.com to redirect to his website. /spit
JD (b98cae) — 5/5/2011 @ 3:41 pmMontana – what in the world are you bibble babbling about?
JD (85b089) — 5/5/2011 @ 3:42 pmMontana is just echoing the default Democrat position of calling other people racist so they can keep the black vote on their plantation against their interest.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/5/2011 @ 4:04 pmThe leftist equivalent of logic and facts. That sh!t be known son!
Makewi (0864f9) — 5/5/2011 @ 4:09 pm@Montana, I think it is fair game for Americans to know that their president was born in America. The constitution demands that and the president should have no problem with providing that proof. All in the name of fair play. Am personally disappointed that he waited this long to show it. Doesn’t make sense. I think Obama’s long delay in showing his birth certificate created the birthers. It is what it is. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Again we have the issue of the pictures of dead fishfood (a.k.a, Osama bin laden), people asking for the release of these pictures have a legitimate case. If fishfood, (a.k.a, Osama bin laden) is really dead, show us the pics. The delay only feeds more suspicion and doubts. Race has nothing to do with it.
The Emperor (1972f2) — 5/5/2011 @ 4:19 pmMontanna, you need a new deck, that race card’s been played to the point of making the whole deck worthless. Besides your president isn’t black, he’s red and green……commie and lack of any real experience.
Spec Ops Mom (267713) — 5/5/2011 @ 5:39 pmMontana what say you about the anti-mccain birthers do they hate white people?
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/5/2011 @ 5:57 pmBin Laden: Dread Pirate Roberts.
kansas (1fc602) — 5/5/2011 @ 7:02 pmBin Laden:Satan’s ho.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/5/2011 @ 7:04 pmMontana, I never believed that Obama was not qualified for the office but you coming here and pulling that race crap … well, f**k you. Its gotten very tiresome that Obama thinks every criticism of his incompetence can be countered with a cry of racism.
It shows what an empty suit he is.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/5/2011 @ 7:06 pmWell I believed that Obama was NOT qualified. I actually looked into his record, or lack thereof.
Spec Ops Mom (267713) — 5/5/2011 @ 7:25 pm1 = Obama
0 = Birthers & Bin Laden
Deal with the truth BABY!
Kevin (d10380) — 5/5/2011 @ 7:53 pmKevin, as a military mom, I have to ask what the hell do you believe that “birthers” have to do with Bin Laden? Are you just parroting a mindless dribble that you heard from the Kos shithole site?
And if you want to see what some of the military guys I know are wearing as a cool t-shirt…..Bush Led——Osama dead….That’s the truth BABY!
Spec Ops Mom (267713) — 5/5/2011 @ 7:58 pmMontana,
The birthers aren’t about race they are about wasting the President’s and/or his administration’s time (and of course about ratings since the lib..er…conserva…uh $ biased media keeps giving birthers airtime over and over again, I mean that stuff sells Ford Ram tough trucks like crazy man). Since Prez. Obama doesn’t have staffers waving cum stained dresses around on TeeVee the Republicans had to come up with something to annoy him.
As for the Bin Laden photos
I think it’s a good idea to release the photos, for all us US citizens. People want to see with their own eyes that it is true that the man is dead. But I also think that the photos will be used as a recruiting tool. Even the story of how he was killed will be used as a recruiting tool…. on both sides. People love to fight for a martyr but people also love a winner and right now the Navy SEALs are winners (hah, are they ever not? Even when they LOSE they somehow win).
Now, for conspiracy and other theories, yall’s are so BORING (oooh Obama will show Usama pix to prop up his presidential campaign) I just had to add a few.
EdWood (40fa95) — 5/5/2011 @ 9:33 pmMaybe what was left of Bin Laden was so raggedy and shot up that people looked at it and said “crap! it doesn’t really look like him anymore” and anticipating endless months of speculation on Fox and Friends about why the body doesn’t look like Bin Laden and what are the America hating liberal navy seals along with commieObama hiding the administration decided to just bury what was left and keep the pix.(OK that one is about as exciting as the ones above BUT!!…..)
….. maybe they didn’t shoot Bin Laden right away and they are worried that someone might notice the marks of “extra special enhanced interrogation” on his body.
……or maybe Usama Bin Laden is in a ship offshore right now coughing up garbled not so useful “intelligence” along with a couple of cups of seawater over and over again… and we will get the photos as soon as they become available but not before we learn a little more about the organizational structure of Al Kaida.
…….or, of course, Osama Bin Laden is back in Saudi Arabia with his family after extensive plastic surgery admiring his special commendational plaque naming him as employee of the decade signed by “The Family”, the CIA, the NSA, Haliburton, Blackwater, Dick Cheney and the Bush family who added a special thanks for giving junior something to do while in office.
Uh hum. Excuse us. Why is it that when this topic gets discussed, we get ignored?
Hillary Clinton Campaign (318f81) — 5/5/2011 @ 9:43 pm“The birthers aren’t about race they are about wasting the President’s and/or his administration’s time”
EdWood – HaHa. Three years of time Obumble could have saved by releasing his document right away. HaHa. Good one Ed.
Maybe Trump will have to get on his butt about the Bin Laden pictures, right Ed?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/5/2011 @ 9:53 pm#88
Haw haw. God save us.
#89
EdWood (40fa95) — 5/5/2011 @ 10:47 pmI want to see Donald Trump’s certificate of being from this planet. He is obviously one of Harold Icke’s alien lizard overlords. Just look at those squinchy eyes of his. Lizard eyes if I ever saw them.
Kman: Look, turn it around. When the towers fell, when bodies fell from a quarter mile in the sky — when we saw those images, did it weaken our resolve, or strengthen it?
Strengthened, right?
— Sure. Maybe we should let them kill some more of us in a spectacular way, so that we can re-strengthen our resolve.
Icy Texan (b294a1) — 5/6/2011 @ 2:01 am1 = US President,
0 = Birthers/ Bin Laden/ Trump/ Huckabee
The “TRUTH will set you free”, you are free now, move along, nothing to see here.
Kevin (d10380) — 5/7/2011 @ 12:03 pmKevin,
Bush led, Bin Laden dead
The “TRUTH” will set you free, that is if you can even read….
Spec Ops Mom (267713) — 5/7/2011 @ 12:24 pmComment by Spec Ops Mom — 5/5/2011 @ 7:25 pm
I meant solely in the sense of the Constitutional requirements. I assure you that the regulars will attest that I’ve never considered him fit for the job in any other sense.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/7/2011 @ 1:00 pmThe few Birthers that are left will never win any court case, but will continue to try to spread their “little brain” lies, win a case or everyone in the world will continue to see you as dumb, stupid or racist, maybe all three. Can you blame them. I love you guys, its fun playing with you.
Montana (d10380) — 5/9/2011 @ 2:32 pm“Montana” is arguing with the voices in its pointy little mush head again.
JD (2da347) — 5/9/2011 @ 3:13 pm