Patterico's Pontifications

5/5/2011

“It’s Enough to Drive a Young Girl Mad;” Walking Right Past Steven Tyler’s Perversion

Filed under: General — Aaron Worthing @ 12:57 pm



[Guest post by Aaron Worthing; if you have tips, please send them here.  Or by Twitter @AaronWorthing.]

Let me start with something basic.  I have long been a fan of Aerosmith.  I have liked their music since Dude (Looks Like a Lady) first introduced me to the band and later, after reading Kurt Cobain’s endorsement of their 70’s era album Rocks, I took a listen and it almost immediately became one of my favorite albums.  Cobain described it as one great song after another, or as Jerry Lee Lewis would say, all killer and no filler.  And I felt as strongly about their detox classic Pump. Pump was more polished and frankly the band had become better musicians by the time they made that album, while Rocks was less “professional” but appealingly scruffy.  It reminded you of those great punk albums when the band could barely sing and barely play the music, and somehow you loved it anyway.

So I felt  some interest when I came across this article by Kevin Burke, discussing Tyler’s traumatic experience with abortion.  Burke is apparently a man of the cloth and is married with children.  So I thought it might be an interesting article about a little-seen side of the harm abortion does.

But what I read, bluntly, was a moral mess, starting with this paragraph:

Long before he won accolades as an American Idol judge, Steven Tyler was a bona-fide rock star, with all that that implied. In 1975, when he was in his late 20s and the lead singer for the band Aerosmith, Tyler persuaded the parents of his 14-year-old girlfriend, Julia Holcomb, to make him her legal guardian so that they could live together in Boston.

Um, you read that right.  He had a fourteen year old girlfriend.  And her parents facilitated her being his fourteen year old girlfriend.  And the stunning thing is that Burke drops this detail like it is a minor thing.  “Oh by the way, Tyler was screwing a fourteen year old and her parents were facilitating it.”  If he has a problem with that, it’s very hard to tell.  But you guys know how Patrick and I feel about an adult having sex with a fourteen year old, so needless to say I am not glossing this over.  So Burke goes on talking about how next the girl got pregnant and had an abortion:

Tyler also reflects on his abortion experience in the autobiography. “It was a big crisis. It’s a major thing when you’re growing something with a woman, but they convinced us that it would never work out and would ruin our lives. . . . You go to the doctor and they put the needle in her belly and they squeeze the stuff in and you watch. And it comes out dead. I was pretty devastated. In my mind, I’m going, Jesus, what have I done?”

And meanwhile, before talking about Tyler’s post-traumatic reaction, we get a brief glimpse of how it affected Julia, as seen through the eyes of Bebe Buell, the Playboy model Tyler was screwing on the side:

If you were wondering what happened to Julia …  after this purportedly psychologically safe procedure, Bebe tells us: “There were many suicidal calls from poor [Julia] as they were breaking up. It was actually a pretty sad time.”

So Burke implies that this suicidal tendency the result of the abortion, but, gee, could it be even a little bit because she was waaaay too young when the relationship started and he was cheating on her?

Of course to be fair, there appears to be some confusion about her age (she is called by the alias Diana at the link), although that might also have been because they were trying to avoid claims he had committed statutory rape.*  And he stayed with her for three years, so she was seventeen or eighteen when they broke up.

By the way, Bebe Buell is the mother of…

…for what its worth.

Then of course we get to Steven Tyler’s trauma:

He went on a European concert tour, accompanied by Bebe [Buell], who tells us: “He was crazy . . . totally drunk, really out of it. . . . Steven destroyed his dressing room at Hammersmith . . . when we got back from Europe. . . . One night I found him on the floor of his bathroom having a drug seizure. He was writhing in pain.”

This was followed by Steven’s “Tuinal days” — a period he spent stoned on massive doses of the barbiturate. He says: “I would eat four or five a day . . . and be good for a couple of months . . . which is why that period is blackout stuff.”

This is the dysfunctional recipe for dealing with post-traumatic stress: Take heavy doses of drugs to numb the memories and feelings — and throw in a portion of toxic rage at bandmates and hotel rooms. Anger, especially in men, is often an undiagnosed sign of depression and repressed grief that needs a healthy expression and healing. Many post-abortive fathers tell us that anger management was a major problem for them after their abortions.

So we are capping this off by implying that all that bad behavior was purely because of the abortion, excusing his own moral agency.  Huh?

Look, full disclosure, my wife and I suffered through a miscarriage some years ago.  It was literally a week after finding out the good news and it was pretty bad—not only upsetting emotionally, but it physically trying for her.  And an abortion is basically an artificially induced miscarriage, right?  So I am very open to the idea that it is a traumatic experience—for the mothers and fathers.  But to be very blunt he isn’t making a very good case for it.  And I am more than a little bothered by the morality exhibited in this article.  The story Burke tells is appalling, but he is so focused on making his point about abortion, he walks right past the continual rape** of this little girl, the famous man who did this and the parents who actually facilitated that.

And in the process I am simply appalled to learn this about Tyler.  I mean seriously, I think Burke has officially ruined the album Pump for me, given its song Young Lust.  When I originally heard it, I assumed he remembering what it was like to be young and horny, and also I assumed by “young” they meant “at the lower end of the legal age,” like college age.  But, um, it’s really hard not to get creeped out by some of the lyrics in retrospect:

  • [i]t’s enough to drive a young girl mad
  • better keep your daughter inside [o]r she’s gonna get a dose of my pride
  • once you had it you can never go back
  • Never gettin’ no peace [h]idin’ from the police…
  • Young Lust, there’s no time for lovin’ [y]oung Lust, uh, don’t need one in the oven

And given what this article by Burke is about, that last one is pretty disturbing.  Seriously, don’t need one what in the oven Steven?

(And yes, I am not sure he wrote all of those words, but still a normal person would be appalled to sing them, regardless.)

Look if you demand that your rock stars be moral paragons, you’re going to have to throw out a lot of music.  I mean, hell Jerry Lee Lewis, mentioned at the beginning infamously married his cousin who was only thirteen at the time.  Seriously the sex scene in Great Balls of Fire gives me the willies (and to their credit, I think that was the filmmakers’ intent).  But I think for me the distinction is the one I made with Michael Jackson.  Now, I don’t know if Jackson was seducing young boys, but let’s face it there was a lot of creepy evidence suggesting he was.  So when he died you know what I did?  I went and bought several of his old albums that I had missed out on growing up, particularly Thriller.  My attitude is that I can’t stop liking the music but if I bought the albums while he was alive, I thought, “dear God, what am I funding with that purchase?”  But once Jackson was dead, I could enjoy his albums guilt-free.

So yeah, I think I am going to swear off Steven Tyler.  I won’t throw out the albums I already have, but…  I am not sure I can listen to them, either.  Certainly not the song “Young Lust” for a long, long time.

————————————

* I say this, unsure of what the legal age of consent was, in that time and place.  But fourteen was unlikely to legal.

** Even if it was legal, its still rape in my book.

[Posted and authored by Aaron Worthing.]

65 Responses to ““It’s Enough to Drive a Young Girl Mad;” Walking Right Past Steven Tyler’s Perversion”

  1. Steven Tyler is like Roman Pedolanski.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  2. AW discovers that rock and roll has a seemy side to it… involving sex and drugs!

    Next up, AW discovers that winters are decidedly colder than summers.

    *Sigh* It’s a sad long road from our mystical youth to becoming the old guy on the porch who does nothing but gripe about the collapse of culture. Hope I die before I get THAT old.

    Kman (5576bf)

  3. pretty much, doh. only not convicted of anything.

    and what horrible parents.

    Aaron Worthing (b1db52)

  4. Kman is defending kiddy felchers?

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  5. Kman,

    Wow, first you draw moral equivalence between killing bin laden, and 9-11, and then this. You are batting a thousand today…

    http://patterico.com/2011/05/05/about-the-impossibility-of-convincing-conspiracy-theorists/#comment-786492

    Aaron Worthing (b1db52)

  6. Kman

    btw, so you think we were wrong to go after roman polanski? and if not, why do you feel different about steven tyler?

    Aaron Worthing (b1db52)

  7. Steve Tyler could have fondled the girls vagina and this pest would have kissed up to him.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  8. Dudes, all I said it should come as no surprise that there is elicit sex — and yes, even sex involving underage people, in the world of rock & roll.

    Anyone just realizing that Aerosmith wasn’t (shall we say) a Christian band, is a bit slow on the uptake.

    That’s what I was saying, and I suspect everyone here knows that.

    If you want to debate someone who supports child molestation or whatever, that’s fine. But don’t make that person out to be me, because that’s 4th grade playground debating tactics.

    Kman (5576bf)

  9. Kman

    Ah, now you are pretending again you didn’t mean to say what you literally said.

    > AW discovers that rock and roll has a seemy side to it…

    Except my post acknowledged it does as does the article. i only took issue with it when it wasn’t confined to adults.

    Aaron Worthing (b1db52)

  10. Ah, now you are pretending again you didn’t mean to say what you literally said.

    What did I “literally say” that makes you believe that I condone rock stars having sex with underage girls?

    Kman (5576bf)

  11. Kman

    > What did I “literally say” that makes you believe that I condone rock stars having sex with underage girls?

    asked and answered.

    Aaron Worthing (b1db52)

  12. “AW discovers that rock and roll has a seemy side to it…”

    That quote makes you believe that I condone rock stars having sex with underage girls?

    Really?

    I don’t believe you.

    Kman (5576bf)

  13. Kman,

    It ain’t just rock ‘n’ roll that had sex and intoxicants. Let’s face it, many of the big band era stars were not exactly paragons of virtue… take Sinatra, for example, and one of the McGuire sisters, who was getting diddled by Chicago mob boss Sam Giancana…

    We have no choice but to bemoan the culture because we’re getting older. That’s our fate.

    either orr (6713b4)

  14. Dude! Some of the best Aerosmith stuff was from the 70s! I guess my age is showing…

    But sadly, like with many rockers, not only are there Toys in the Attic, but skeletons in the closet as well.

    And if you don’t mind me asking, what is with this fellow “kman’s” antagonistic and contrarian disposition towards you?

    If you’d rather not answer I’ll understand.

    Bob Reed (5f2db5)

  15. Kmart is a creepy stalker.

    JD (822109)

  16. Kman

    Well, either that or you didn’t read the post as usual. care to cop to that?

    Aaron Worthing (b1db52)

  17. Well, either that or you didn’t read the post as usual. care to cop to that?

    I read the post; I just think it’s funny that you JUST discovered that Steven Tyler has been “naughty”. That was my point. The whole post had a “dog bites man” vibe.

    Beyond that — yes, I DO think your response (to “swear off” Steven Tyler) is a little melodramatic. I can admire the writing of the Declaration of Independence, and its value for me isn’t lessened one bit by the fact that Jefferson was banging one of his slaves. I love the art for the art, not for the artist behind it. Not that I’m “right” and you’re “wrong” — it’s just a difference.

    Kman (5576bf)

  18. C’mon, Kfap. Give us your website address so we can read the brilliance you lack commenting here. SockPuppet Fridays would be EPIC!

    ∅ (e7577d)

  19. F@cking a 14 year old is “naughty” ?

    JD (109425)

  20. Kman

    > I read the post; I just think it’s funny that you JUST discovered that Steven Tyler has been “naughty”. That was my point. The whole post had a “dog bites man” vibe.

    so according to you, sex with a 14 year old girl is a “dog bites man” story?

    Aaron Worthing (b1db52)

  21. No f*cking Helen Thomas is naughty………….and disturbing.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  22. kfap’s website must be an abortion since he doesn’t want anyone to see it.

    ∅ (e7577d)

  23. Bebe Buell was screwing Elrond? How did she ever get to Rivendell? And was this in between her screwing Todd Rundgren and Jimmy Page?

    JVW (fb14f8)

  24. Many post-abortive fathers tell us that anger management was a major problem for them after their abortions.”

    This is a sore point for me.Men are not pregnant. Men do not have abortions, induced or otherwise. They may WITNESS them, they may cause them, or as in this case, essentially COERCE them – and they may suffer from this and from guilt, from the loss of control, and of course the death of a life they helped create – but the physical experience of pregnancy is not and never will be theirs.

    That poor girl. Don’t anyone tell me that Steve Tyler had a late term abortion.

    SarahW (af7312)

  25. Steve Tyler is a late-term abortion Sarah.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  26. And an abortion is basically an artificially induced miscarriage, right?

    Uh… no. Sorry to be blunt, but being close to both subjects I can tell you without a doubt that compared to abortion, miscarriage is a pink run in the park with singing bunny rabbits and fluffy dear cooing in your general direction.

    I am not at all excusing Tyler’s statutory rape of a 14 year old, and I apologize for pulling this one line from your post and opining on the subtopic, but I can not so easily dismiss the abortion as being a serious cause of his (and Julia’s) distress.

    Miscarriage is awful. It is a the death of a child by disease, by illness, by something unforeseen and unintentional. Many women end up asking themselves over and over what they could have done differently to avoid it, and the heart rending answer is often “nothing”. Because miscarriage is not anyone’s fault.

    Abortion, on the other hand, is violent. It’s bloody. It’s the ripping apart of limbs and the slicing of arteries. It’s murdering a person while that person is living inside of you, depending on you for life. And worse, it is something that is chosen. That is known. A life dies and you were a part of that death.

    Imagine a woman who is told that abortion is no big-thang. After all, it’s legal, lots of people do it, it’s better for you and the child- yadda, yadda. She gets the abortion. Then she gets smart. She realizes that her child was killed. Worse, she was a part of it.

    If a woman can manage to come to terms with that fact without plunging into heaping helpings of syrupy denial- and then if she can process those thoughts without mountain loads of guilt for what she was a part of, then she is one hell of a strong lady. Personally, I don’t know any women who meet all of those descriptors, and I’ve known and worked with post-abortive women for years.

    Jewels (c7b6c5)

  27. “..Bebe Buell is the mother of….” ? Who? (If it’s the female pictured, I have no idea who that is.)

    Roscoe (36a649)

  28. Roscoe

    Liv Tyler. you officially lose your nerd card.

    whether that is a good or bad thing is a debatable point.

    Aaron Worthing (b1db52)

  29. It’s a sad long road from our mystical youth to becoming the old guy on the porch who does nothing but gripe about the collapse of culture. Hope I die before I get THAT old.

    Yeah. Who wants to get so old and cranky that you oppose getting legal guardianship of 14-year-olds so you can have sex with them?

    Llarry (6ebdaf)

  30. I don’t feel very judgey with respect to the Steve Tyler. Or the Don Johnson. I think him and Melanie Griffith hooked up when Mr. Johnson was in his 20s and Melanie was just like 14 or whatever. They had a daughter together after they married the second time I think she lives in texas.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  31. Elvis Presley had an parental arrangement similar to Tyler’s; he slept in the same bed with Priscilla from the age of 14 until they were legally allowed to marry. She insisted in her autobiography that despite her insistence, no (ahem) intercourse occurred until they were wed. 22-year-old Don Johnson — who wasn’t a big star at the time — messed around with 14-year-old Melanie Griffith with the permission of her mother, actress Tippi Hedren. Johnson & Griffith met on the set of the 1974 free-love-on-campus movie The Harrad Experiment, in which Hedren played the wife of the headmistress. Tatum O’Neal, in her tell-all memoir, says she, Johnson, and Griffith participated in an opium-fueled orgy in a Hollywood hotel room when O’Neal was (brace yourself) twelve. Well-known Hollyweird horndog Warren Beatty had “chaperoned” dates with one well-underaged actress then best-known for being in the original cast of The Facts of Life. (I am leaving out her name because I can’t find my source, but I know I read it in a major publication, and at the time was outraged nobody else was outraged.)

    More recently, then-27-year-old R&B singer/producer R. Kelly began a sexual relationship with his young protege, the late Aaliyah Haughton. He produced her debut album Age Ain’t Nothing But a Number, and proved he meant that when he secretly “married” her at 15 by falsely claiming she was 18 on a marriage license. Her parents, who objected to the relationship, had the sham nuptials annulled.

    I learned in my late teens never to be shocked that a celebrity is an addict, a hypocrite, or a pervert. Celebrities can get away with murder — literally. Maybe not Phil Spector, but definitely O.J. Simpson and Robert Blake.

    L.N. Smithee (77e53a)

  32. “wife of the headmistress” “wife of the headmaster.”

    L.N. Smithee (77e53a)

  33. Ted Nugent also became legal guardian of an underage girl, although she was 17 which is at least within shouting distance of being legal. In his defense she was smoking hot, looked older, and they were together for ten years. You’ve got to wonder, though, about parents who sign over guardianship of their young daughters to rock stars.

    rsrobinson (bfda2f)

  34. roscoe

    and in case you are wondering Liv tyler is also steve tyler’s daughter.

    Aaron Worthing (73a7ea)

  35. You’ve got to wonder, though, about parents who sign over guardianship of their young daughters to rock stars.

    Comment by rsrobinson — 5/5/2011 @ 4:47 pm

    I don’t wonder. I know what they are. Starts with a “p,” ends with a “p.”

    L.N. Smithee (77e53a)

  36. Kman,

    It ain’t just rock ‘n’ roll that had sex and intoxicants. Let’s face it, many of the big band era stars were not exactly paragons of virtue… take Sinatra, for example, and one of the McGuire sisters, who was getting diddled by Chicago mob boss Sam Giancana…

    We have no choice but to bemoan the culture because we’re getting older. That’s our fate.

    Comment by either orr — 5/5/2011 @ 1:43 pm

    Don’t laugh it off. If you have children, check their iPods, and see if they have downloaded what was the most popular song in the nation last week, “S&M” by Rihanna. Tell me you don’t have a problem with your little girls singing along with her & guest singer vocalist Britney Spears: “Sex in the air, I don’t care, I love the smell of it … Sticks and stones may break my bones, but whips and chains excite me!”

    Don’t insult people’s intelligence by in any way suggesting what’s put out regularly these days is no more racy than “Sugartime.”

    L.N. Smithee (77e53a)

  37. What Tyler did was rather perverted, but I think the man who could sing this song might have come to understood the wrongness of it. (You do know what it’s about, don’t you?)

    Some magazine asked him about his daughter’s love scenes in one of her early movies (Asteroid? Andromeda? Of all her movies, I’ve only actually seen LOTR.) His answer then indicated that either he had changed into a typical “not with my daughter you don’t” father, or he was, if he hadn’t repented of his affair with Ms. Burke, hypocrite to the core.

    And since I try to judge people in the scale of mercy, I will opt for “he’s changed”.

    kishnevi (07c20e)

  38. AW, another great post, as per usual. I first saw a really f’d up and out-of-it Aerosmith at Cal Jam 2 in 1978. Here is quick review I wrote (for a rock site) on Tyler’s book. Hope someone finds it of interest…

    Does The Noise In My Head Bother You? by Steven Tyler (376 pages) 2011 *** (of 5 stars)
    Joe: “Steven, I felt betrayed when I was playing my guitar and you nodded out at the keyboard at rehearsal yesterday…”
    Steven: “What are you talking about? You gave me the dope!”
    Therapist: “No talking, Steven.”

    That is the money quote. Nice job, very readable. This book is part of Steven Tyler’s new management’s plan. Incidentally, that would be Allen Kovac of 10th Street Entertainment, the same guy who is trying to help Vince Neil scrape up some money to pay the IRS with alternative income streams. The judge gig on ‘American Idol’ is a part of Tyler’s master plan, and there are a few other side businesses for Tyler. Aerosmith tried to fire him, and he has basically written them off as anything more than an income stream; he will not travel or associate with the band at all except onstage. Wow. That is a lot of hurt and betrayal coming due after 40+ years together. They were great (I say ‘were’ because they have put out no new music since 2001) when they weren’t an oldies act.

    Tyler drops a few bombshells, that are really not bombshells at all to anybody following the band: he has Hep C. He tried gay sex. He was confronted by the band in a (one of several) drug intervention and the therapist diagnosed him with 7 “holics” and “osises”, but the one that really rankles him is “compulsive narcissist.” Fill in your own punchline. Oh, and his best friend is Mark Hudson.

    Former management Leber/Krebs, and Tim Collins, take it in the chops. They made money for themselves and Aerosmith, and at the end of the run they had their money while Aerosmith pi$$ed it away on coke, flunkies and hangers-on, ex-wives divorce settlements, etc. Joe Perry actually owed $80,000 on a room service bill and Tyler is sore at Leber-Krebs for asking him to pay for it; if it wasn’t a big deal, then why didn’t Perry pay for it?*crickets* Can you imagine the entitlement mentality to run up a food/booze bill like that, and then expect management to eat it? Tim Collins got the management gig by promising Tyler to bring him a gram of coke a day; Tyler should bone up on the frog & scorpion fable.

    My favorite story has to do with Tyler whining about the problems getting a contract rider provision fulfilled. A turkey-on-the-bone dinner was required before every show (Tyler admits they were too high and drunk to eat it), and how upset he would get when they would be provided pressed turkeyroll (“with bubbles in it!”). He was so upset, he gave it to opening act Kansas, and they loved it. I guess this story is meant to show that even when Tyler is out of touch with 99.9% of the human race, he is still a generous guy (or, that Aerosmith is just so far above Kansas).

    After reading this, and Tyler’s complaints about “dopey fans” and their questions (and why he likes staying at the Four Seasons because they have the security he needs), it really pointed out the difference in how a guy like Sammy Hagar (also 63 years old like Tyler, but seems 20 years younger than Tyler) actually likes his fans, smiles onstage and is having fun.

    It appears to be Tyler spending a lot of time pontificating into a voice-recognition transcriber, because odd words and spellings occur (i.e. “Shank After Rollin'” instead of ‘Train…’, and his motorcycle company (Dirico) is spelled three different ways). This doesn’t take away from the enjoyment of the book, but is distracting enough that it is a lot more memorable than anything Tyler has to say about Brad Whitford. Speaking of which, Tyler points out that the “LI3″ (Least Interesting 3) know they aren’t interesting, so they should have been more grateful that he was out front making them all money. Point taken, and the truth does hurt.

    Some things not mentioned: Tyler’s plastic surgeries. No mention of Tom Hamilton’s cancer, at all. Tyler is a walking example of Dr. Drew’s “hangnail” example of narcissism where a celebrity regaling everyone with the story of an awful hangnail, a subordinate announces he is dying of cancer, and three minutes later the subject has returned to the celebrity’s hangnail. Tyler also reveals that he spent time in Las Encinas (during the time Steven Adler was there for ‘Celebrity Rehab’) and he seems quite pouty that Dr. Drew never approaches or speaks to him. Apparently Tyler doesn’t approach others, they have to come to him, and he tells us all what he would have said to Dr. Drew if he did approach him. Except he didn’t…

    The books abruptly ends with some talk about ‘American Idol’ and Guitar Hero and Aerosmith trying out new singers to replace him, and Tyler flying to England to try out for Led Zeppelin. Also, some poorly edited rage directed at his last wife for cheating on him with a contractor building his kitchen; he doesn’t really take any responsiblity for all the road cheating that ate away at 17 years of marriage, and for taking David Johansson’s wife (Cyrinda) before that; Tyler lacks a sense of irony, but that is just one of several blind spots. But seriously, I think it is Tyler’s pride that is extra hurt that a lowly working stiff contractor is a better choice than him at this point. Years back, Bebe Buell decided that Todd Rundgren would be a better father to Liv Tyler, and that sticks in Steven’s craw (he never admits she was right, and he was strung out at the time). Ah, the truth does hurt. Anyway, a fast and entertaining read with a lot of great pictures over the decades. A great example of why I love the music, but hate the musicians. Three stars, for fans only.

    TimesDisliker (5a86f7)

  39. kish

    of course i know what its about… but that other song, young lust, is ON THE SAME ALBUM.

    Aaron Worthing (73a7ea)

  40. I swear when Pia Toscano lost Steven Tyler was as pissed as Michelle Obama when the all you can eat buffet is closed.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  41. Eric Clapton also regales us in his autobiography, about being with a 14 year-old who becomes an insane junkie alcoholic. 20 years after he dumps her, she confronts him and he concludes something like, “it was too bad she had to hang on to that baggage to justify her drug use and drinking.” Sorry, I shouldn’t be so judgmental about a guitar player who, if he had stayed with the mother of his 4 year-old boy, wouldn’t have won that extra Grammy.

    btw, both Steven Tyler and Sammy Hagar have brand new bestselling memoirs, both available through the Amazon widget right here on Patterico’s website. Sammy’s is a #1 NTY bestseller, and I don’t say that to make Tyler look any less. More or less.

    TimesDisliker (5a86f7)

  42. Under Sharia interpreted by Ayatollah Khomeini in the Islamic Republic of Iran, girls could be legally married at the age of nine. Article 1041 of the Civil Code states:
    Marriage before puberty by the permission of the Guardian and on condition of taking into interest the ward’s interest is proper.

    So Nugent, Tyler, Clapton, Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, etc. would be b*nging what would be considered ‘old maids’ in Islamic culture. Just sayin’… We must respect all cultures./sarc off

    TimesDisliker (5a86f7)

  43. Ron Paul says israel should do whatever it wants to survive against the palestinians without america butting in.

    Uh is Ron Paul ok I mean he didn’t go on an anti-israeli rant.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  44. but that other song, young lust, is ON THE SAME ALBUM

    okay, I stand corrected. (Actually TimesDisliker’s review pretty much shows I was wrong.) Of course, not following Aerosmith very much, which album is which can get a little confusing. I guess I’d better stick to my more usual group of CDs.

    kishnevi (2d88a8)

  45. Even my favorite band the Rolling Stones seems to excuse this kind of behavior. Check out the lyrics to Stray Cat Blues:

    I hear the click-clack of your feet on the stairs
    I know you’re no scare-eyed honey.
    There’ll be a feast if you just come upstairs
    But it’s no hanging matter
    It’s no capital crime

    I can see that you’re fifteen years old
    No I don’t want your I.D.
    I can see that you’re so far from home
    But that’s no hanging matter
    It’s no capital crime

    Jagger was more careful than Tyler. Mackenzie Philips said that Jagger took her upstairs, so to speak, as soon as she turned 18, and said he had been waiting for a long time.

    norcal (ecea98)

  46. kish

    btw not mad. you did make a point i did forget.

    But pointing out that song is on the same album only makes it all weirder. i mean if memory serves, the girl in the video was 15. about the same as his young girlfriend.

    Aaron Worthing (73a7ea)

  47. But you guys know how Patrick and I feel about an adult having sex with a fourteen year old

    You’re agin it, I hope. Glad to hear. Was kind of worried about that.

    angeleno (ec0b60)

  48. btw, Steven Tyler met Liv when she was 14, backstage at a show. Wonder what was going through his mind.*eyes roll*

    In his book, he claims she called to ask his advice on whether to do ‘Armegeddon’ because she thought it was ‘commercial’. He had previously given her the greenlight to use his last name, and told her to do it (she was 21 at the time), because “being a household name is not a bad thing.”

    In his book, he hints that ‘someone’ in Aerosmith is using, but in Rolling Stone reveals that it is Joe Perry. Sounds like his interviews are actually better than the book!

    btw, in Clapton’s book, he was head-over-heels in love with “an Italian supermodel named Carla.” One day, while she was at work, he went through her things and found her trove of pictures with her famous conquests; it stunned him, to realize that he was not in control of the relationship and was simply a ‘pitstop’. Hahahahhaaaaa!!!! Um, I mean, wow man, that must have really hurt and I’m sorry you had to learn this even though she told you to stay out of her closets and you cheated on every woman you were ever with. Even worse, after asking your friend Mick Jagger to ‘lay off’ he stole her away anyway. I wonder if you ever reconsidered stealing George Harrison’s wife? Anyway, all this on top of learning that your sister was really your mother when you were 14. Clapton, six strings will always be faithful. For those who haven’t yet figured it out, “an Italian supermodel named Carla” is now the First Lady of France.

    TimesDisliker (5a86f7)

  49. Comment by Aaron Worthing — 5/5/2011 @ 7:28 pm
    The narcissism, if true, would explain how he could sing both songs without any twinge of thinking they might apply to him; and if I remember correctly, the topic of sexual abuse by family members was coming up a lot at the time the song was released. So they may have just been trying to surf off a topic from the daily news with Janie.

    Meanwhile, you pass the test of being a married man with flying colors. I point you to two pictures of young women just as nice looking as Liv Tyler and you don’t bat an eyelash. [insert emoticon for evil grin here]

    kishnevi (2d88a8)

  50. FYI, Joe Perry is a life-long Republican.

    Jim S. (874b7a)

  51. How long before Perez Hilton calls Joe Perry a sellout to his sexuality?

    What is the gay version of Uncle Tom?

    We shot Osama’s wife in the leg we should have broken her neck.

    Thanks Leonard Panetta.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  52. He raped his ward and coerced her into a (14 wk+) saline abortion. He is not a victim of the *law* or anyone else.

    Why are “artists” afforded leeway to prey on children?

    How he makes that up with God or Karma is his own business and I don’t begrudge anyone liking his music or buying it or whatever but I refuse to think of him as anyone’s victim, or slip into any discussion of that event as “his” or name it as if he were the one on the table.

    SarahW (af7312)

  53. Times

    > btw, Steven Tyler met Liv when she was 14, backstage at a show. Wonder what was going through his mind.*eyes roll*

    That reminds me a joke maher told years ago when they did the jackson family awards or something like that. He said, “at one point michael jackson was watching an old performance of the jackson 5 and said, ‘that is a beautiful little boy. I’d really love to… oh God, that’s me!

    it probably funnier to say it.

    Aaron Worthing (b1db52)

  54. #38, TD, enjoyed your review, given Tyler’s on-stage costumes and persona I figured him for gay or a switch hitter. Aerowsmith’s music has long been on my play list, but watching monkey-face prancing and posturing with his girly scarfs tied to the microphone is even more silly than Stevie Nicks spinning around in circles.

    For reliable hard-driving rock-n-roll nobody beats the Rolling Stones in the late 60s and early 70s.

    ropelight (a82fa2)

  55. I’m going to sidestep the main issue just to say that the last time Aerosmith put out an album that was any good, we had Gerald Ford in the White House.

    And ropelight, I agree with your “silly” characterization of Tyler but I can’t see how Jagger could be in any way exempt from the same charge.

    Dave (in MA) (fdc1e8)

  56. Ya gotta point there Dave, I gotta say.

    ropelight (a82fa2)

  57. Oh perry is straight sorry.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  58. Great post and comments section. The horror of abortion, the horrendous parenting that give rise to groupies (yep, they all have parents), the bad morality of many rock stars / Hollywood types, etc. The specifics of Tyler, Don Johnson, Clapton, etc. are enlightening, in fact how some of you know so much about them is almost scary. My rock favorites might be slightly more staid or at least less flamboyant, but the essential character defects are just as much on display.

    Lindsey Buckingham of Fleetwood Mac is now a family man, but Storms by Carol Ann Harris makes clear that he physically attacked her several times. John Mellencamp basically treated his second marriage as he treats his views of religion (only old fogies are faithful to tradition). John seemingly settled down with a third wife 18 years his junior (and a top-level model at that) when he hit 40. I mean this one had to “take”, right? Apparently not. He’s split from her and is now hanging with Meg Ryan. I’m just thankful (because I love his music from ’79 through 2001) his behavior is less-obviously bad than Tyler’s, etc., but of course that is not saying much.

    Would love to read the Hagar book. Beyond that, there are actually a few decent marriages in the rock and rock little shop of horrors: it seems Pat Benatar and Neil Gerardo have been a true family/love story for years (although I know nothing of the details). And that amazing singer Marilyn McCoo (of 5th Dimension fame) and her man (Billy Davis, Jr., also of 5D) wrote a wonderful book of their life and love (Up, Up, and Away).

    Thomas Burk (ac9839)

  59. In retrospect, it’s probably a good thing I couldn’t sing and play the guitar, otherwise I’d be livin’ la vida remorsa.

    ropelight (a82fa2)

  60. Thomas Burk, here is my review of Hagar’s book. He’s no saint, but he is right up front about it; this is the way Andrew Breitbart says Republicans (and everybody) should be, that way they can’t beat you over the head with your ‘secret’ (i.e. Bob Livingstone, Henry Hyde, Dan Burton, Newt Gingrich, Helen Chenowith, Chuck Quackenbush…must I go on?!?!??) This book is 4 of 5 stars, best book I have read in a year, by far. The only book I rate 5 of 5 stars for heavy rock is Alice Cooper’s ‘Golf Monster’. If you are interested in books about hard rock and heavy metal, you can find more of my reviews here. \mm/ {too much metal for one hand!}

    ‘Red: My Uncensored Life in Rock’ by Sammy Hagar (256 pages) 2011 ****

    “F*ck you guys! I will kill the first motherf*cker that tries to take this bottle from me. I left my family for this sh*t! You think I’m going to give it up for you guys?!?!!”

    That is the money quote, Eddie Van Halen after being confronted about his drinking at an intervention for the 2004 reunion tour: If that doesn’t grab you, then read no further.

    Sammy Hagar was my first concert, and it blew my mind watching him walk out into the audience with a Gibson Nasty Cordless (brand-new technology at the time) and get into a guitar duel with Gary Pihl (who is not mentioned in the book, along with a few other ignored former collaborators that Sammy dismisses by saying that they took his paycheck but disrespected him). Decades later, Sammy still brings the rock and has a great story to tell.

    After blowing past the first 30 pages of the ‘growing up in Fontana’ piffle, it starts to get pretty good, pretty fast. Sammy has always had to fight for it. Ronnie Montrose clearly fears Sammy, is jealous that Sammy is getting all the photographs and press, and shuts him out of ‘Montrose’ and decision-making. Montrose was a control freak and got off on making other people feel bad. I hear that hasn’t changed. Later, Hagar is given a song by Van Morrison, who changes his mind the next day but doesn’t have the balls to tell Sammy, and then shines on Hagar and his wife while waiting in line at the movies. And while running for the door in the pouring rain with his hands full of heavy equipment, Sly Stone intentionally lets the door slam in Sammy’s face. I love stories like this; even though it may be just one side of the story, you can get a glimps at the (lack of) character these ego-tripping ‘superstars’ possess. C*nts! But you can’t help admiring the strength of character that allows Sammy to push on.

    We all know Sammy’s 43+ years of strong music making, and his tequila business he sold for $100 million. But, it turns out Sammy has always had a business mind. He got into the real estate business building out apartments, and from there built a fire-sprinkler business that had 180 employees. He tried a clothing line that didn’t pan out, started his own travel agency, and made some great money with bicycle shops when mountain biking was new. He is a hustler, if nothing else, and he never ripped off anybody. Even today, he pays the Wabos a full-time salary and they are paid like an arena-level act. He’s a generous guy, especially in a time when major heritage acts like Billy Joel, Bruce Springsteen, etc. do not pay or keep a full-time band.

    Some unintentionally funny stuff. For instance, Sammy misremembers his album ‘Nine on a Ten Scale’ as ‘Nine on a Scale of Ten.’ He made the record, yet can’t remember the name. The one thing that set him apart from his peers, is he wrote songs all the time; he still does. And he is honest about his regrets, too. Very human, and all his money can’t fix these kinds of things.

    Sammy seems like a really balanced person, as much as a rockstar can be. He came from a really poor childhood, was on welfare as a young adult, but his work ethic and talent combined with his optimism to put him at the ‘top of the rock’. All the derision can be put into perspective, when you consider that his very first album contained “Rock Candy.” All those sh*tbird critics and snobby musicians combined never put up anything as great as that one song alone, and both Lemmy and Keith Richards slap their seals of approval on Hagar. Can’t get much better than that.

    Reading enough of these books, you get a better rounded perspective on the stories; this is Sammy’s version. Reading DLR’s “Crazy From The Heat” and Ian Christe’s “Everybody Wants Some” will fill in a lot of the rest. The DVD documentary, “Long Road To Cabo” is also great, filling in some blanks on the “Sam and Dave” tour Hagar did with Roth.

    At the end of the book, it is pretty clear that Sammy is about kindness, treating musicians (and all people) better than they treat him, and that he has an awareness and spirituality that would make him a good person to be around. He really seems to like his fans, which is kind of refreshing. Great book, another achievement (NYT #1 bestseller) and a worthwhile story well told. Four stars, best book I have read in a long time.

    TimesDisliker (0ef891)

  61. “for what its worth.”

    ¡a heck-of-a-lot!

    stari_momak (d5f987)

  62. The cure for worrying about rockers’ morality–whose publicity is no doubt a career decision–is…Tallis. And others suchlike. No worries and you don’t annoy the neighbors.
    Besides, since rockers are so screwed up, what “messages” are they sending other than screw the the establishment.
    Or there’s C&W. That message is– forgot the attribution– work hard, party hard, don’t mess around on your SO, look after your friends, show up for the war, get right with The Man, children and old folks rule.

    Richard Aubrey (cc7e37)

  63. Imams-Waaaaaaaaaah we got kicked off a flight we gonna sue

    Preists-We got kicked off a flight? Why?

    Imams-You dirty infidels deserved it.

    Preists-What’s with the double standards.

    Imams-Infidel shut up or I keeeeeeel you.

    On topic-Rockers and morales shouldn’t always be used in the same sentence.

    DohBiden (15aa57)


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