Patterico's Pontifications

5/4/2011

Be Wary of People and Sites Claiming to Have Photos of bin Laden Dead (Update: Obama Vows Never to Release the Real Photos)

Filed under: General — Aaron Worthing @ 10:01 am



[Guest post by Aaron Worthing; if you have tips, please send them here.  Or by Twitter @AaronWorthing.]

Update: Cnn says via a breaking news email that they are not going to release the photo now.  Yes, I am convinced the bastard is dead.  But I am concerned about those in the Muslim world who (1) can be convinced, but (2) do not trust the word of the President.  And I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the people who lost loved ones on 9-11 might need that visual verification for their own sake.  So once again Obama is withholding basic evidence on a topic and expecting us all to be satisfied.  Only this time, it’s not the American people who will doubt him, but the Muslim world.  And I thought he cared about their opinion?

Now certainly the word of the daughter is helpful, but that testimony is problematic, because it is fanciful in other details.  So a reasonable person might dismiss both accounts as dubious.  Which leaves us nothing but the White House’s word on the subject and the word of a scientist who claims to have matched DNA.  That is not nearly enough.

The original post follows.

————————————

Besides the danger of having egg on your face like the NRO and I do, there’s an actual danger involved.  Just as hackers put malicious programs emails asserting that they have pictures of Anna Kournikova, they are doing the same thing with fake pictures of bin Laden:

As U.S. officials debate whether or not to release bloody pictures of a dead Osama bin Laden, hackers and scammers are using links and emails promising those pictures to try to infect your computer.

The FBI says these emails could even appear to come from your friends, claiming to show either photos of bin Laden dead or a video of his death.

But it’s actually a virus or malware that could steal personal information or cause your entire system to crash.

Officials also warn that internet searches can also direct you to sites with malware or virus. And the bad links are also popping up on Facebook and other social media.

As of now, they say there are no released photos or videos.

I doubt that this is terror related.  More than likely they just figure it’s something that people really want to see, like pictures of the tennis star.

Which is interesting because it is a testament to how big the story really was as well as the assertion that there were around 5,000 tweets a second at the height of the Osama story.

Anyway, read the whole thing.

Meanwhile the White House can’t seem to figure out if it wants to release the photos or not.  Right now, guys, we technically only have your word and the word of a scientist who verified the DNA.  Do you really think that is even close enough for the doubters who can be convinced?

Of course there are people in the Muslim world who will believe anything

But although conspiracy theories in that part of the world can get pretty nutty, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t present sufficient evidence that would convince reasonable people.

And it certainly helps that one of bin Laden’s daughters is saying he is dead–even if she is making up a fictional story of having him brought out before his family and being killed.

[Posted and authored by Aaron Worthing.]

90 Responses to “Be Wary of People and Sites Claiming to Have Photos of bin Laden Dead (Update: Obama Vows Never to Release the Real Photos)”

  1. Right now, guys, we technically only have your word and the word of a scientist who verified the DNA. Do you really think that is even close enough for the doubters who can be convinced?

    And (as you note) bin Laden’s own daughter (who was there).

    And the fact that bin Laden isn’t going to appear in a video next week (month, year, etc.) holding a newspaper from that day.

    That really ought to be enough to convince reasonable people the OBL is dead. After that, you’re just a “deather”, and nothing will completely convince you.

    Reasonable people are already convinced. All that remains, therefore, are unreasonable people, and — as I’ve said before — decisions shouldn’t be driven by an interest to appease the unreasonable fringe. Ignore them; don’t let them set the agenda.

    Kman (5576bf)

  2. And the fact that bin Laden isn’t going to appear in a video next week (month, year, etc.) holding a newspaper from that day.

    Eh, this is such a weak argument.

    We all know that one of Osama’s tricks may be to have prerecorded a large variety of ‘You didn’t get me’ recordings, with a variety of details that would ‘prove’ he was alive.

    If he did that, would Kman suddenly say he was alive? Of course not. His argument is totally insincere.

    Also insincere is taking the word of OBL’s daughter, who wouldn’t want us to keep hunting her dad down. Also insincere is the DNA evidence, which is simply not conclusive.

    Reasonable people are already convinced. All that remains, therefore, are unreasonable people, and — as I’ve said before — decisions shouldn’t be driven by an interest to appease the unreasonable fringe. Ignore them; don’t let them set the agenda.

    What, this is about ego? Ignoring doubters because you don’t like them? Not letting them ‘set the agenda’? The agenda of a psychological victory over al qaida?

    Again, that’s totally irrational. The agenda is set specifically by proving what happened.

    That really ought to be enough to convince reasonable people the OBL is dead.

    You need to explain what specifically is enough to shut down a request to see photos.

    Why did we need to see abu ghraib photos? why did Obama approve showing photos of coffins of US Servicemen? At the time, transparency was the reason provided.

    So what’s the standard. If George Bush has simply asserted that we got OBL, and he had photos proving it, but didn’t want us to see them, would Kman say that’s OK, because to doubt Bush makes one part of the ‘lunatic fringe’?

    I think he might note the fact that we’re at war with lunatics, and convincing them we are relentless in seeking them out, and capable of getting their leader, is important to prove.

    I think Kman is just making an ad hoc excuse for Obama’s indecisiveness. He’s been pretty aggressively spinning. I noticed yesterday he said the idea that Obama is indecisive was now put to rest (even though it took Obama 16 hours to approve this mission, during which time he slept).

    Kman, there’s more to this than just Obama. The USA has powerful evidence that will convince some people who are not otherwise convinced. It doesn’t have to convince everyone in order to be useful.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  3. Actually, Kman’s argument only makes sense if you see this from US Politics alone. The people who wouldn’t vote for Obama without these photos are the ‘lunatic fringe’ in US politics. He’s not actually even talking about Al Qaida, or considering the world is full of people who are more convinced by photos than our mere word.

    Showing the photo is SOP at this point, so deviating from that is unusual, from the point of view of Al Qaida. We threw away the best evidence we have, and then claimed we proved it was him with DNA. That sets us up for rampant conspiracies that we didn’t get Osama Bin Laden at all.

    Kman isn’t even recognizing the theory that Osama was dead ten years ago, a widely accepted possibility before a few days ago. This ‘he won’t come out with a video’ proof is completely irrational, given that if we didn’t really find OBL, it’s probably because he’s already dead.

    What does it cost us to have transparency in this case? This isn’t like Obama’s birth certificate. He doesn’t own this data. We have lost a lot of lives and treasure searching for OBL, and how much does it cost to convince as many people in Al Qaida as possible that we really got him?

    What’s really sad is that Obama is still voting present on this issue. He can’t make his mind up about anything.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  4. We all know that one of Osama’s tricks may be to have prerecorded a large variety of ‘You didn’t get me’ recordings, with a variety of details that would ‘prove’ he was alive.

    They’ll all be lame unless he holds up a newspaper or something that COULDN’T have existed before.

    The agenda is set specifically by proving what happened.

    But, as we see from the birthers, you can’t PROVE what happened to the satisfaction of unreasonable people. So, I ask, why cater to them? If they want to think that the Great Pumpkin is real, who cares?

    I noticed yesterday he said the idea that Obama is indecisive was now put to rest (even though it took Obama 16 hours to approve this mission, during which time he slept).

    Taking 16 hours wasn’t a bad thing. It was being deliberative, not indecisive. One should be that way, particularly when lives are at stake.

    The USA has powerful evidence that will convince some people who are not otherwise convinced.

    And why should we care about the small minority who aren’t convinced? Again, it is catering to the fringe.

    Why did we need to see abu ghraib photos? why did Obama approve showing photos of coffins of US Servicemen? At the time, transparency was the reason provided.

    THAT, I think, is the better argument. We should see the photos because we have an open government, and we only “hide” things if there is some overriding security interest. You might convince me there.

    Kman (5576bf)

  5. NBC is reporting that the president has decided not to release photos of bin Laden after his death

    Kman (5576bf)

  6. what’s most helpful for the terrorists is the certain knowledge they’ve gained that the stupid bumbling Americans won’t try to capture them alive to find out the informations what they have in their head

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  7. And just to be clear, I believe we really got OBL.

    I believe that the administration is not lying about it.

    But already, by voting present this long, Obama is risking serious problems. It’s similar to how his voting present on taking down Osama Bin Laden just makes me worried our president is too indecisive and can’t make hard calls. His record of getting these things wrong, such as waterboarding or the Surge, is more political, but he’s got a systematic problem taking the lead in a timely manner.

    Some PC moron, perhaps Valerie Jarret, wanted to make sure we didn’t inflame the Muslim world with this operation, and thus we’ve been bending over backwards in Obama’s announcement, OBL’s Islamic burial, and this photo being hidden away.

    Obama is too petrified of the hard reality of what he just did, and what it looks like. It’s ugly to put bullets in someone’s face, and some people in the middle east think that person was a lion of Islam. Obama is afraid of their reaction.

    It makes us look pretty pathetic, and this is Obama’s greatest triumph (even if he was just a part of it, he’s got a very good part).

    That’s the underlying issue here. People saying they don’t personally see the point of convincing al qaida, or weighing down those who want a standard level of transparency as ‘lunatic fringe’, are trying to get away from the fact that it doesn’t cost us anything to tell the truth.

    We need to stop pretending like Osama Bin Laden is a venerable Muslim that could be seen as a holy martyr. To some extent, it’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  8. Because the Times wanted to make it representative of US efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq, just as the Newsweek ran the ‘flushed Koran, without care or
    apparently proof, Why every negative allegation or permutation against US soldiers and intelligence officers were given; it fits the Levick Group’s template which much of the media internalized.

    narciso (79ddc3)

  9. what’s most helpful for the terrorists is the certain knowledge they’ve gained that the stupid bumbling Americans won’t try to capture them alive to find out the informations what they have in their head

    Comment by happyfeet

    Yes, that’s true, actually. Clearly, this administration would rather kill than have another detainee problem. That’s why we’re using more air power and less boots.

    I would like to know if we could have taken OBL alive.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  10. Kmart likes to try to define unreasonable as anyone who does not agree with his hyper-partisan point of view. It is so cute.

    JD (eb120d)

  11. what’s most helpful for the terrorists is the certain knowledge they’ve gained that the stupid bumbling Americans won’t try to capture them alive to find out the informations what they have in their head

    Hi happyfeet. It wouldn’t be a bad guess to think that Osama was the special case of all special cases. It’s morbid for me to say, but I’m glad he isn’t drawing any more breaths and that his end was sudden, unexpected and violent. A bit of Karma there if you ask me.

    Makewi (0864f9)

  12. For the low price of just $9.95, I will send you a picture of a dead Osama that was taken in the base morgue where his body was processed.

    For the low price of just $9.95, I will send you a picture of a very much alive Osama that shows him sitting on the beach reading today’s NYT.

    steve (369bc6)

  13. “what’s most helpful for the terrorists is the certain knowledge they’ve gained that the stupid bumbling Americans won’t try to capture them alive to find out the informations what they have in their head”

    Mr. Feets – Plus that they have a 16 hour head start on U.S. forces arriving to send them to meet their awaiting virgins, at a minimum. Rushing can give you digestion problems.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  14. Look at how quickly kmart wants to call people deathers merely for not sharing his position.

    JD (eb120d)

  15. Rush from earlier: They won’t release the death photo. Time to call Donald Trump.

    Vermont Neighbor (cae88c)

  16. Kmart likes to try to define unreasonable as anyone who does not agree with his hyper-partisan point of view.

    No, JD. It’s not a partisan issue. Reasonable people of ALL political parties and persuasions belief that bin Laden is dead, even without a photo.

    All that is left to convince are the loonies. And my argument is to let the loonies be loonies. Who gives a damn?

    Kman (5576bf)

  17. Daleyrocks – just calling it 16 hours does not do justice to the fecklessness. By his own narrative, we knew of this for months prior to the decision being stalled.

    JD (eb120d)

  18. I luv it when you prove my point. Asking for proof does not make someone a deather. Fortunately, yu do not get to determine what is reasonable, because you are demonstrably not. Staplers are creepy.

    JD (eb120d)

  19. Staplers?!?!?!?! Stalkers. Stalker.

    JD (eb120d)

  20. Reasonable people of ALL political parties and persuasions belief that bin Laden is dead, even without a photo.

    All that is left to convince are the loonies. And my argument is to let the loonies be loonies.

    This isn’t logic. That doesn’t make it false, but it doesn’t follow that belief that bin Laden is alive is in itself unreasonable just because people of all political parties and persuasions believe Osama is dead.

    Just saying.

    Makewi (0864f9)

  21. Kmart likes to try to define unreasonable as anyone who does not agree with his hyper-partisan point of view. It is so cute.

    Comment by JD

    That’s probably the most annoying part.

    They don’t want an argument on the best evidence. They want to taint their opponents by somehow establishing that they are crazy. I guess the long term hope is that they say Obama’s opponents can’t be trusted with other criticisms because they are deathers.

    Does Kman know that? I doubt it. He seems to be repeating what others are saying a little too lazily to really understand this discussion.

    Here’s my problem: I really do believe OBL just got killed by Navy SEALs, and I really would like to be able to explain that by pointing to facts and evidence. I know a few people who are very paranoid about these conspiracies. I spent years trying to explain the lancet’s statistical range trick with casualty counting.

    This has nothing to do with partisan politics. Other than the fact Obama’s still deciding such a basic thing, and will let others make the call (isn’t that exactly what it sounds like? This is up to President Hillary).

    For every bit of evidence we have, I can think of an obvious rebuttal. The word of OBL’s sister? This DNA from a half sister, in a huge family? etc etc. Basically all I have is that argument that too many people would have to be involved in telling such a huge lie. That’s why I personally believe Obama. Lying like that wouldn’t be possible.

    But how do I explain that to someone who doesn’t trust the US government, or doesn’t trust our military?

    It certainly would be nice to see a video of the house being taken. I think there is some with OBL alive, and then killed. Honestly, we probably shouldn’t release that if it shows us killing an unarmed man who is cowering behind his wife. I think that’s what happened (and the retraction of this claim is due to fear).

    Anyway, there is a reason Hillary is cringing like that as she watches this video (which again, is not Obama’s property, but belongs to the taxpayers). Maybe it’s in our best interest not to expose a particularly ruthless ROE. I know the left would never take that for an excuse if the President were a republican, but I’m a patriot before I’m a partisan.

    So we’re left with a corpse photo. There more reason to release this than there was to release Obama’s long form birth certificate. He released the latter, though.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  22. Kman: “decisions shouldn’t be driven by an interest to appease the unreasonable fringe.”

    Bon, nous sommes d’accord. Endless squirming deference to endlessly delicate Moslem sensibilities should be permanently off the table.

    They are, after all, for the practical purposes of our actual civilization, an unreasonable fringe.

    d. in c. (68ff46)

  23. “But how do I explain that to someone who doesn’t trust the US government, or doesn’t trust our military?”

    Dustin – We went through eight years of the left not trusting Bush and the military. I wonder if Kman is now willing to admit he was loony for those eight years since he is now asking people to accept standard he and his ilk were unwilling to accept during another administration.

    The hypocrisy is stunning.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  24. OMG…LOL at that shark.

    madawaskan (e26bf2)

  25. hi Mr. Makewi I just think the decision to dispose of the bin Laden without first attempting to learn learn learn anything and everything we can is not a decision what reflects a wartime posture.

    It was a political calculation through and through.

    I guarantee you Mr. Makewi that we have a very very well developed playbook for what to do if OBL were ever captured. We have detailed options and menus from which bumble could have selected.

    bumble ignored those options and simply took the path he felt most helped his cowardly trashy ass politically for so he can continue raping America’s treasury and defiling our freedoms and capitalisms.

    And god knows how many people will die for his self-indulgence.

    It’s very sad.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  26. No, JD. It’s not a partisan issue.

    But it is. You would never make this argument for a Republican, and we all know that.

    The idea that if Bush had more evidence about the 9/11 attacks, and didn’t release it because … truthers are unreasonable?

    That’s a stupid argument. There are no secrets inside Osama’s exposed brain tissue and skull.

    This is strictly about showing deference and fear of inflaming Islam, as though they don’t understand that it is violent to shoot someone in the face.

    Let’s imagine we’re in a court room, to prove to a jury of Al Qaida or the average joes in Egypt, that Osama Bin Laden was just killed by our strike. You have a DNA test showing this person killed was related to Osama Bin Laden’s large family (on the word of a US paid scientist), and OBL’s sister or wife claiming it’s him (though she wouldn’t want us to find OBL if he’s still alive), and the promise of government administrators who weren’t actually there, and actually threw away the corpse for no good reason.

    Oh, but you also have a great photograph of his dead body and a video of his death.

    Would you, personally, show that to the jury?

    The reason we aren’t is the same reason we rushed to bury OBL and went on and on about how this wasn’t a strike at Islam. It’s the same reason we have removed words from our government’s vocabulary such as terrorism.

    We are trying too hard to appease.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  27. But how do I explain that to someone who doesn’t trust the US government, or doesn’t trust our military?

    You DON’T explain it to them, Dustin… because even a photo won’t help (since if comes from the US government and/or our military).

    So don’t waste your time. Let fools be fools at their own peril.

    Kman (5576bf)

  28. Kman

    Either you are an incompetent lawyer, or you are a liar. Take your pick.

    > And (as you note) bin Laden’s own daughter (who was there).

    Yeah, except there are problems with other parts of her testimony. Duh.

    > And the fact that bin Laden isn’t going to appear in a video next week (month, year, etc.) holding a newspaper from that day.

    Obama hasn’t appeared in a video since just before the election in 2004 when he threatened that if we voted for bush we would face retaliation.

    So right now, you have Obama’s hearsay. And you have one scientist. And an account from the daughter that is by the official position of the government, false. And you have the body disposed of and probably unrecoverable.

    But most fundamentally, you don’t seem to care about convincing the Muslim world. Why did obama give that speech in cairo if outreach to that region didn’t matter?

    Aaron Worthing (73a7ea)

  29. The hypocrisy is stunning.

    Comment by daleyrocks —

    Yes, we’ve gone all the way around to this hysterical ‘just trust him, or you are crazy’ argument. Which is terrible, of course, but also doesn’t work because this was a psychological victory over Islamic terrorists, who actually are crazy. They certainly don’t take our word for much.

    Would a photo convince all of them? No. Especially not after Obama was so indecisive. Especially since we got rid of his body so quickly. But there is some number of people who will be convinced by a photo. Somewhere in between being irrational and merely not trusting the US Government.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  30. Kman

    > But, as we see from the birthers, you can’t PROVE what happened to the satisfaction of unreasonable people.

    is it unreasonable to not be convinced by the word of our president, if YOU DON’T LIVE IN AMERICA?

    Aaron Worthing (73a7ea)

  31. The idea that if Bush had more evidence about the 9/11 attacks, and didn’t release it because … truthers are unreasonable?

    Right. Bush had better things to do than try to convince a bunch of nuts (like the truthers) about something which every other reasonable person knew to be true. It’s a pointless game. And, I might add, not very presidential.

    We are trying too hard to appease.

    No, I think you are trying hard to appease.

    Kman (5576bf)

  32. Kman

    > You DON’T explain it to them, Dustin… because even a photo won’t help (since if comes from the US government and/or our military).

    > So don’t waste your time. Let fools be fools at their own peril.

    Oh, look at Kman suddenly not caring about issues like recruitment.

    Btw, all that really means is that it was an idiot thing to do to dispose of the body so quickly. Because if you laid him on a slab in front of the media and let them run their own DNA analysis, and so on, then it would be hard not to convince them.

    But what this really comes down to, Kman, is that Obama can do no wrong in your mind. We all know that if a republican was president when this happened, you would be calling him an idiot for this. the difference between you and me, though, is I would be saying the same thing. unlikely you, my opinions don’t change depending on whether the president is a D or an R.

    Aaron Worthing (73a7ea)

  33. “You DON’T explain it to them, Dustin”

    Kman – Exactly, Bush tried that for eight years with loons like you and got nowhere. Now you want to turn around and say, ACCEPT MY WORD, NO PHOTOS, BITCHES?

    Yes, the hypocrisy is truly stunning.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  34. AW:

    Obama hasn’t appeared in a video since just before the election in 2004 when he threatened that if we voted for bush we would face retaliation

    The name is Osama.

    But most fundamentally, you don’t seem to care about convincing the Muslim world

    The “Muslim world” is convinced that OBL is dead, except for the lunatic fringe — mostly OBL supporters themselves. No, AW. I have no desire to appease them. You do, that’s fine. But I don’t think it’s going to make any difference.

    And I certainly don’t think we should be making political decisions based on what THEY think of us.

    Kman (5576bf)

  35. “our president is too indecisive and can’t make hard calls”

    Comment by Dustin — 5/4/2011 @ 10:41 am

    You are unbelievable. Do you read what you post?

    Indecisive? Hard calls?

    Are you joking? What would you call what our President just did?

    Right wing ignorance knows no bounds.

    jharp (f8a6a3)

  36. You DON’T explain it to them, Dustin… because even a photo won’t help (since if comes from the US government and/or our military).

    So don’t waste your time. Let fools be fools at their own peril.

    Comment by Kman

    I do understand where this notion comes from.

    But won’t let fools be fools at their own peril because it’s important to me that we win the war on terror. Lives are at stake.

    This isn’t about whether or not Obama wins reelection to most of us. Yes, I admit, after waiting so long to release the photo, its authenticity would be questioned. It appears Obama was too indecisive and he totally blew it. He took 16 hours even deciding whether or not to take OBL down, some claim out of fear or making the Muslim world mad. He then threw the body away out of fear of making the Muslim world mad. He gave a speech focused primarily on asking the Muslim world not to be mad. He won’t show the best evidence remaining because it’s grisly and might make the Muslim world mad.

    I am detecting a pattern.

    Sadly, your best retort is that these people are fools, so we should just let them be fools at their own peril (by which you mean violence).

    What an unprincipled little bastard you are.

    I, however, went out of my way to explain to birthers that Obama was born in Hawaii. I went out of my way to explain that 9/11 was not an inside job. I will go out of my way to explain that why I believe OBL just got taken out, despite the best evidence being hidden.

    I will not, however, be able to say those who believe we did not get OBL are fools. OBL’s death has not been proven absolutely, or beyond reason to doubt.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  37. The photos need to be released. End of story. To use the excuse that the photos would inflame the part of the Muslim world that remains perpetually inflamed over any insult, or perceived insult, is totally bogus.

    Last night Leon Panetta said, without falter, that photos would be released. Now, it seems that the POTUS overrode that decision. Power play?

    The hell with the Muslim world. They have done nothing, NOTHING, to quelch the radicals in their midst. Why are we pandering to them? What about the feelings of the 3,000 families that lost loved ones on 9-11-2001? Are they allowed to see the photos if they want? They should be.

    As to the “violence” factor of the photos: how many here can say they have never seen the film of JFK having the back of his head blown off? What about the photos of the sons of Saddam?

    Something is terribly wrong here with the POTUS deciding not to release the photographs that would offer proof positive that Osama bin Laden is dead.

    retire05 (2d538e)

  38. But what this really comes down to, Kman, is that Obama can do no wrong in your mind.

    Your Obama Derangement Syndrome is showing.

    This isn’t even about Obama, or political parties. If a person believes that OBL is alive, then he is necessarily accusing the entire military apparatus, and the CIA, of perpetrating a fraud — or acquiescing in a fraud — on the world. This includes members of both political parties.

    Kman (5576bf)

  39. The “Muslim world” is convinced that OBL is dead, except for the lunatic fringe — mostly OBL supporters themselves. No, AW. I have no desire to appease them. You do, that’s fine.

    Wow, Kman’s really mad now.

    He’s lying that Aaron wants to appease Al Qaida, when Aaron actually wants to show them a photo of OBL’s corpse. That’s not appeasement. Appeasement is refusing to show that photo. There is no cost to doing so other than worries it’s too grisly to take.

    And I’d love to see Kman’s proof that it’s a mere lunatic fringe, in the middle east, that doesn’t trust Obama’s claims.

    That is totally ridiculous. Kman is a partisan hack who refuses to be reasonable about a sincere request for more transparency. We just want evidence that is easy to provide. Kman has provided zero reasons not to provide it.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  40. The US Special Forces only took two bodies with them in the military chopper; one is said to be Bin Laden’s and the other his son’s.

    Neo (03e5c2)

  41. I’m curious to see the bin laden corpse I think plus it would be interesting to see how the artistic community might could make use of those images. Now that the naughty terror monkey is dead and we’ve squandered the opportunity to mine a mother lode of intelligence we’re still left with a dead naughty terror monkey and the key thing is to let the American people have fun with it, those who have a mind to.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  42. Kman: “No, I think you are trying too hard to appease.”

    Heh heh.

    Kman just said “I think.”

    And Danny Thomas just did that thing with the coffee again that he often got paid to do.

    d. in c. (af7a3a)

  43. Your Obama Derangement Syndrome is showing.

    This isn’t even about Obama, or political parties

    That’s not true, Kman. He attacked YOUR motives, rather than Obama’s. You refuse to view Obama’s behavior reasonably, so YOU’RE the one with Obama derangement syndrome.

    Asking for a photo he already has is not deranged. Your hysterical reaction makes no sense, except when we realize you have a long pattern of shilling for Obama in a hysterical and lunatic way.

    Kman, you are the lunatic fringe.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  44. plus there could be lucrative merchandising opportunities

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  45. Carney, the White House press agent, just said that the President is worried about Americans in foreign lands.

    Excuse me? You mean that the President, who knew the mission was going down, and that 40 U.S. Navy SEALs would be laying their asses on the line in a mission that had the possiblity to go awry at any time, but went to play gold anyway is now worried about the American military?

    Give me a freaking break.

    White House Press Room = Spin Central

    retire05 (2d538e)

  46. ooops, meant golf, NOT gold.

    retire05 (2d538e)

  47. Aaron once tried to appease me punching me in the face.

    Then he sent a picture of my bloody lip to my mom to appease her.

    /kman logic

    It’s pretty hilarious that all Kman can see here is electoral consequences, or how to make it all about Aaron. And by hilarious I mean disturbing.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  48. Ktard is trying to appease his brain disorder.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  49. Hell yes release them. As a parent of a spec ops and someone who knows what lives have been lost, looking for this POS, then yes, we need to be transparent and release these photos. Anyone who says otherwises doesn’t know what they’re talking about. If you don’t need to see them, then do like you should do with a TV remote, don’t click on the site. I don’t believe a thing this president says nor anyone in his administration. If that makes me a “conspiracy theorist”, then so be it, I’ve earned that right with my son’s ass on the line. You try it sometime. In the meantime, I hear he’s going to release thousands of pictures of “abuse at the hands of our soldiers” in our military prisons. Tell me he’s thinking of our soldiers? Someone on here dare tell me he’s thinking of them.

    Spec Ops Mom (267713)

  50. plus there could be lucrative merchandising opportunities

    Comment by happyfeet

    It’s a little sick to think about cafepress coffee mugs with Osama’s exposed brain on them.

    However, I would buy one with a still of him cowering behind his wife.

    Can’t they cherry pick a shot of Osama looking cowardly? While I don’t relish the idea of revenge, I do relish the idea that this guy wanted so much power, and wound up impotent behind a wall, waiting for us to find him. He probably knew we were relentless enough to do so. Maybe he was surprised.

    Either way, let’s remember him as an impotent little failure. Many in the middle east call this guy a lion, and see him as a huge success. We should do all we can to take that away.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  51. You refuse to view Obama’s behavior reasonably…

    I’m apparently the only one here who realizes that Obama wasn’t the one who stormed the compound, fired shots, took pictures, took computers, loaded bin Laden’s body, took DNA from bin Laden’s body, and performed DNA tests.

    So if it is untrue the OBL was killed, you are accusing hundreds of people (military professionals, CIA, etc.) of lying. NOT merely Obama.

    You guys have a distrust of Obama — I get that. And I expect you all to impugn him because — well, because you can’t help it I guess.

    But to make this about OBAMA lying — or OBAMA’s behavior — is ridiculous. Hence, you have Obama Derangement Syndrome.

    Kman (5576bf)

  52. Nope, not Obama Derangement Syndrome, but a very pissed off military family who has seen their son deployed 6 times, hunting for this asshole. You sir, are dillusional and evidently easy to fool.You must have a very weak fortitude in all ways.

    Spec Ops Mom (267713)

  53. You have bush derangement syndrome Sancho.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  54. plus Obama is a dirty smoker Mr. Kman he reeks of cigarettes it’s disgusting

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  55. Obama is afraid of doing his job. That’s all. Just a totally indecisive little coward.

    The entire world has used photos to prove a monster was killed for almost as long as we’ve had photos. They do this because it’s always been quite effective at showing people what happened to the monster. Not just convincing them the person is dead (though this is proven to work for that) but also showing them that these people are not larger than life. They are just weak little people who pretended to speak for God because they wanted to manipulate people.

    That Osama Bin Laden picture we usually see is highly idealized. This is extremely effective propaganda. Why pretend it doesn’t work? Why ignore reality in this war?

    Where was Allah? How could he allow Osama Bin Laden to be reduced to a cowering, broken, impotent failure?

    Kman has, so far, failed to prove this kind of effort makes a difference because… he’s wrong.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  56. a totally indecisive smelly little coward

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  57. Nope, not Obama Derangement Syndrome, but a very pissed off military family who has seen their son deployed 6 times, hunting for this asshole. You sir, are dillusional and evidently easy to fool.You must have a very weak fortitude in all ways.

    Comment by Spec Ops Mom

    Thanks for your sacrifice. My aunt’s son was recently in the USMC, so I got to see first hand how difficult that was. I didn’t appreciate it when I deployed (though what I did was so far from Special Forces in Afghanistan it’s laughable).

    Thing is, Pakistan has many moms too. They’ve sent their sons to fight the Taliban and Al Qaida. Far more of them will never see their kids again than ours won’t (not to diminish how huge that loss is for either).

    Do these people believe Obama’s word? I really think they deserve to see Osama Bin Laden was really killed in a photo. It’s a big world, and not all of it believes in the integrity of the US President. Frankly, why should we have to, if there’s a damn photo? So many people died because of Osama Bin Laden, so why not cut him down to size with a photo of what he really wound up as?

    Kman wishes to change the topic to ‘deranged’ people ‘appeasing’ the middle east’s ‘lunatics’ with the truth. He’s loading this down aggressively because he’s wrong.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  58. At #10, Dustin wrote, “I would like to know if we could have taken OBL alive.”

    I’d like to why he wasn’t taken alive. He’s the Grand Prize, he knows, or knew, more critical information on terrorist activities than anyone else, by far.

    Shooting a repository of such valuable information down like a mad dog is tantamount to burning the library at Alexandria, or assassinating Lee Harvey Oswald. It doesn’t pass the smell test.

    bin Laden alive and talking is 10,000 times more destructive to Islamic jihad than his death. White House Press Secretary Carney claims the assault team had the authority to accept bin Laden’s surrender if safe and feasible. If he was unarmed, taking him into custody would have been well within the capabilities of the SEAL team.

    Additionally, bin Laden’s wife was shot. Instead of leaving her there, it would have been better to bring her along with the withdrawing forces for medical treatment. Leaving her there was another mistake. But the biggest blunder was unnecessarily killing the golden goose.

    ropelight (ceba08)

  59. The entire world has used photos to prove a monster was killed for almost as long as we’ve had photos. They do this because it’s always been quite effective at showing people what happened to the monster.

    Yes, but I don’t think that’s going to be the deterrent to al Qaeda members that you think it will be.

    After all, these religious fanatics fly planes into buildings, strap explosives to their chest, etc.

    Do you think they’re going to look at a bloodied face of bin Laden and suddenly say, “Yuck. I didn’t realize I might become dead and deformed! I better find another line of work”….?

    To THEM, you would just be showing them a picture of a martyr. Their martyr.

    Now, that’s my opinion. I don’t claim to be inside the head of the typical bin Laden wannabe. So I could be wrong. But so could you. I just don’t believe it will be effective propaganda. Not with that crowd.

    Kman (5576bf)

  60. My thoughts on the President’s decision:

    http://powip.com/2011/05/breaking-obama-nixes-obl-death-photo-release/

    In a nutshell? I believe he’s set himself up to both be able to lump folks critical of this decision, “deathers”, in with the recently chastened “birthers”, as being looney-tunes; all while being able to remind everyone that HE got bin Laden, delivered in the best rehearsed off handed way, of course, seemingly free of any self-promotion.

    I think it’s an especially bad move. Especially given the prediliction of the “Arab street” to conspiracy theories.

    Brought to us all by, “the MOST TRANSPARENT! ADMINISTRATION! EVAR!11!1!“. Transparently putting partisan self-interest ahead of national ones-again…

    Bob Reed (5f2db5)

  61. I just got back from attending a military funeral from a veteran who was killed in Afghanistan. We lined the streets for this heroe, so imagine my disgust with what we call a President, when I return home to see he chickened out in posting this photo. There are not enough words or anger to describe how I feel about people like Obama and Kman. Chicken shits is the mildest I can think of. And the “most transparent” administration? I think not. Oh and Kman, I was a card carrying union worker and democrat for over 35 years until this man took over as CIC of my son. I wouldn’t vote for another democrat if you held a gun to my head. They’re abusive and they lie. Why I never saw it all these years is beyond me, but I sure see it now. So fling away with your “conspiracy theorists”, “tin foil hatter”, “birther” or what ever you want to call me, because quite frankly, you’re not worth the spit on the shine of my sons shoes.

    Spec Ops Mom (267713)

  62. They could take a still from the vid of him live-right before he got shot between the eyes….

    Justice.

    The American taxpayer paid for it they should at least get that.

    You know the administration saw the whole thing-for some reason they want to deny that.

    madawaskan (e26bf2)

  63. Bob Reed, I sure hope that’s wrong.

    I have to admire the brilliance, though. You keep the OBL story alive for the rest of his administration. If someone wants to talk about the economy, quickly things will devolve into a discussion about OBL. Any scandal, and foreign policy dispute, it all will quickly be dominated by people talking about the OBL strike. It’s Obama’s single decent move as a President, and it gets interjected into every other topic this way.

    I don’t think they are decisive enough to think that way.

    I mean, they should have had a decision on this specific issue BEFORE they had the pictures. It’s really obvious that it would come up, and they are still debating it long after OBL has been defecated from a Tuna.

    It’s just amazing how indecisive Obama was about Osama Bin Laden.

    Even if they wanted to have a deather agitation scheme, they should have had a firm answer on this, instead of making a show of how they aren’t convinced, and who is asking Obama not to release the photos. Now, if they do release the photos, they’ve cost a few of their senior people some face.

    ropelight, I guess I could muse about a possibility that they did capture Osama Bin Laden alive, and that’s why they took his son’s corpse, DNA tested it, and then threw it in the ocean so fast, and refuse to show us the video of what went down, or any photos.

    But such a brilliant possibility is apparently not possible. Kman said so. Every detail is apparently proven beyond any doubt, so we can’t give Obama any possibility of having handled this well.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  64. I watched today as my 7 yr old grandson saluted the procession all the way through, which is quite a feat for someone his age. Then I look at the picture of our fearless leader cowering in the corner of the “op room” with his golf clothes still on and the distinction is quite clear.

    Spec Ops Mom (267713)

  65. Everything the administration is doing, and the sequence in which they are doing those things, sure makes it look like they have taken Osama alive and they created a death ruse.

    That’s not to say that is what happened…I’m just sayin’.

    When you think about it, there was no way Obama was going to allow himself to have a known living Osama on hands. There is a large list of reasons why:

    1. Obama would need to torture Osama. He wouldn’t survive politically if he didn’t torture Osama, especially since torture led to his capture. The right would demand it and the left would be trapped.

    2. Obama would need to be executed. As you can tell from the claimed actions regarding the claimed burial, Obama realizes that Osama is a hero in the Muslim world. Obama is all about Muslim outreach. Obama wouldn’t survive politically if he didn’t execute Osama.

    3. We would suffer one terrorist attack after another in blackmail attempts from the Jihadis demanding Osama’s release as ransom.

    With the ruse, they can torture Osama for information and then dispose of him without raising an uproar.

    j curtis (187892)

  66. 2. Obama would need to be executed.

    Shit. Please fix that.

    j curtis (187892)

  67. Kman

    > After all, these religious fanatics fly planes into buildings, strap explosives to their chest, etc.

    the leaders don’t. the leaders themselves are generally cowards. and they are a good target audience.

    Also they might have believed that bin Laden’s ability to remain free and alive was prove of providence.

    > So if it is untrue the OBL was killed, you are accusing hundreds of people (military professionals, CIA, etc.) of lying

    Like who? We aren’t hearing from the Seals themselves. We are only hearing from the politicians and we aren’t even hearing consistent stories. Only an idiot wouldn’t see the conspiracy theory fodder here.

    And yes, that means I am calling you an idiot.

    > And I certainly don’t think we should be making political decisions based on what THEY think of us.

    Ahahahahahahahahahha. Look who suddenly doesn’t care what they think.

    > The name is Osama.

    Ah, well, I was bound to f— that up sooner or later.

    Aaron Worthing (73a7ea)

  68. Was he killed on Sunday or in 2007? Benezir Bhutto seems to think that in 2007, before she was assassinated, that he was already murdered by someone who tried to assassinate her. Listen to this video and she doesn’t bat an eye, blink or anything as to what she’s saying. I think it’s at about the 6 min mark. I’ve hung on to this video for quite a while so I’m not real sure at what mark. Anyways I guess she is a “deather” now too. Except she was a deather when it wasn’t known what the word meant.

    Spec Ops Mom (267713)

  69. Was he killed on Sunday or in 2007? Benezir Bhutto seems to think that in 2007, before she was assassinated, that he was already murdered by someone who tried to assassinate her. Listen to this video and she doesn’t bat an eye, blink or anything as to what she’s saying. I think it’s at about the 6 min mark. I’ve hung on to this video for quite a while so I’m not real sure at what mark. Anyways I guess she is a “deather” now too. Except she was a deather when it wasn’t known what the word meant.

    http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/242.html

    Spec Ops Mom (267713)

  70. “(2) do not trust the word of the President.”

    That’s good advice.

    And, I don’t.

    We’ve shown pictures of terrorists we’ve killed before. As a matter of fact, the government has pictures available on line RIGHT NOW.

    http://www.defense.gov/home/photoessays/2006-06/p20060608b2.html

    If it’s o.k. to show pics of a dead al-Zarqawi, then it ought to be o.k. to show pictures of a dead Bin Laden.

    I don’t know what Obama and his crew are up to…but, I don’t believe what they say, and I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could heave them.

    Dave Surls (8a1070)

  71. Kmna: “my argument is to let the loonies be loonies”

    — Your argument is with the loonies in your head.

    Icy Texan (c28ab5)

  72. “Kmna”? Oy!
    Anyway: “I don’t claim to be inside the head of the typical bin Laden wannabe”

    — Ah, but if only you were inside bin Laden’s head on Sunday.
    — Ah, but you are inside the head of the typical Ted Kennedy wannabe.
    — Ah, but you do claim to be inside the heads of so many others, such as the opposition that you supposedly know so well.

    Icy Texan (c28ab5)

  73. Mr Reed – kmart is proving your theory for you.

    JD (d48c3b)

  74. Go back and read j curtis’ comment.

    IF the Obama White House were competent, that’s what they’d do. A live Osama that everyone thinks is dead is of far more use to us than either a dead Osama or a live Osama known to be in custody.

    The only problem with that scenario is that I don’t think the Obama White House is competent.

    Murgatroyd (fd5fcd)

  75. A live Osama that everyone thinks is dead is of far more use to us than either a dead Osama or a live Osama known to be in custody.

    I don’t know about that. But I think if al Qaeda members are confused (or split) on the question of whether OBL is alive, that confusion works to our benefit.

    Kman (5576bf)

  76. But I think if al Qaeda members are confused (or split) on the question of whether OBL is alive, that confusion works to our benefit.

    HAHAHAHA

    He’ll literally say anything.

    Now, it’s good for there to be doubt as to whether the USA told the truth about OBL’s death. It’s good!

    BTW, I’m trying to reconcile this ‘you can’t change their minds or anything’ attitude with Kman’s long running BS about Aaron’s Muhammad drawing initiative.

    It’s not hard to do, actually, since it’s just Kman being contrarian.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  77. Kman, do you have a mouse in your pocket because you keep using the words such as benefits “us” and I’m curious as to who the “us” is. When did you serve? And what kind of intelligence training do you have that you can spout off about anything that has to do with the ME or al Qaeda members being confused? I’m just curious as to what kind of actual knowledge do you have or are you just an armchair quarterback?

    Spec Ops Mom (267713)

  78. Spec Ops Mom:

    I’m using common sense. If there is confusion within al Qaeda as to who is “in charge” (i.e., a very much alive OBL versus whoever hopes to serve as his replacement), that confusion works to our benefit. It necessarily weakens al Qaeda when the power structure at the top tier is fragmented.

    Do you disagree?

    Kman (5576bf)

  79. And you believe somehow that Osama was in charge and directed operations such as Maj. Hassan, the crotch bomber, the NY Times Square bombing? You are aware, or at least I would hope you are, that there are many, many heads to this monster and Bin Laden was only one? Common sense isn’t your forte. I guess now that we have Osama, (cough cough) we can all go home and now that we have a muslim appeaser in the WH, we can just all sit around and sing Kum by ya. Damn I’m glad you’ve cleared that up for me. I guess I should look out the window to see my son running up the walk cuz he should be done now. JHC, aren’t you even aware that we’ve taken out quite a few of their “top tier” long before Sunday night and that special ops have been having raids and rounding up the bad people for quite some time? Don’t quit your day job. You see, we’ve taken some out, they pop up another one and then it’s repeated again. Confusion is what’s in our WH, not what’s on the battlefield.

    Spec Ops Mom (267713)

  80. I don’t think anyone remotely familiar with reality thought Osama Bin Laden was in operational control of anything anymore.

    And I don’t think al qaida’s cells are struggling to figure out who their boss is. It’s not the worst theory, but Kman is in lunatic fringe territory with his theories.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  81. even if she is making up a fictional story of having him brought out before his family and being killed.

    Am I a bad person for not caring if they did exactly that?

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  82. Yeah, I can imagine his kids aren’t really sure what he’s done. They could be brainwashed idiots, beaten into submission (the women in particular). Dragging their dad out to execute him in front of his family is probably not a reasonable way to deal with him.

    I grant, no degree of cruelty would be unjustified towards Osama himself.

    And, I will say, if it were my call, we’d capture the entire family and use them against one another to extract cooperation from OBL. We wouldn’t broadcast the mission’s success or go on some political victory tour of the mass grave in Manhattan. Once we had all the information we could get, we would convene a military commission in secret, carry out the sentence (presumably a hanging) and then have a press conference where the video of the trial and execution were made available. I might even wait until the day after the election to inform the country, just to highlight that this shouldn’t be a partisan football. But that’s hammy like a Tom Clancy novel. We live in a world with much weaker leadership.

    If Obama did that, half his administration would resign in horror, I guess.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  83. bifidis-Your all intolerant rednecks no wonder why you join the NRA.

    Classic leftard projection.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  84. Actually Leon Panetta ordered the killing of Osama……….not Obama.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  85. Kman writes: It necessarily weakens al Qaeda when the power structure at the top tier is fragmented.

    This really shows, IMO, that Kman does not understand what Al Queda is. It was always a loose confederation of terror groups. Not a rigid hierarchical one. And most of Bin Laden’s contribution was the creation of the safe haven in Afghanistan, which has been gone for a decade, and money-laundering networks that were dismantled early in the Bush administration. Bin Laden has never had any real operational control and he’s had none for the last decade.

    The tier below him has been thinned out a lot in the past years.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  86. Ok – Jewish spy-sharks? Their Mohel is now the bravest dude ever!

    I absolutely Trust Obama and the Democrats to absolutely squander any benefit they could have received from killing Bin Laden.

    Californio (9fc0af)

  87. “We released this photo of a tragic incident with Osama Bin Laden, who suffered an injury when a Navy Seal team experienced a weapons malfunction after travelling across the world to surprize Osama with a birthday cake.” Seal team members stated : “Dude, we meant to blow his mind with a birthday surprize, opps. We ended up doing it literally, not figuratively.”

    The US government offered to hand deliver a written apology and quote ” a nice knish” end quote, to the next in line in the Al Queda organization.

    Californio (9fc0af)


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