So… Now bin Laden DIDN’T Use His Wife as a Human Shield?! (Update: The Story Changes Again)
[Guest post by Aaron Worthing; if you have tips, please send them here. Or by Twitter @AaronWorthing.]
Update: The story has changed again. Guys, how about you sort your story first and then get back to us?
What are they doing over there? First, they dispose of bin Laden’s body quickly out of respect for Islam, while dumping it in the sea, which is apparently not in accord with Islam… and then it turns out that the most useful propaganda story around… is not true?
Yes, really. Via Reuters, and several sources, including The Blaze:
Osama bin Laden’s wife not killed in raid, White House says
A woman killed during the U.S. raid of Osama bin Laden’s compound in Pakistan was not his wife and was not used as a human shield by the al Qaeda leader before his death, a U.S. official said on Monday, correcting an earlier description.
John Brennan, President Barack Obama’s top counter- terrorism adviser, told reporters earlier that the slain woman had been one of bin Laden’s wives and had been used — perhaps voluntarily — as a shield during the firefight.
However, a different White House official said that account had turned out not to be the case. Bin Laden’s wife was injured but not killed in the assault.
How do you mess up a detail like that? Seriously, how? And why didn’t they make sure they got their story straight before they said a thing like that?
And all of this will give fuel to the fire of the increasing conspiracy theories that maintain that bin Laden isn’t dead after all. It’s great that we managed to kill bin Laden, but we are really starting to screw up the aftermath.
[Posted and authored by Aaron Worthing.]
Another OOPSS!
Uhh, gosh, it really wasn’t bin Laden, umm, it was Julian Assange, we put a fake beard on him. While we are at it, the “woman” was Bradley Manning..
JP (c4988c) — 5/3/2011 @ 5:53 amJP which kind of supports the claim that the mission was to kill him, not take him alive.
Aaron Worthing (73a7ea) — 5/3/2011 @ 5:58 amWhy is this starting to feel like what the Joker did in the Dark Night
http://www.nationaljournal.com/tech/did-dna-finger-bin-laden–20110502
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:02 amnarc
which thing he did? he did a bunch of crazy crap.
Aaron Worthing (73a7ea) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:08 amKfap will be along any minute to accuse the SEAL Team of war crimes…oh wait, zero gave the go ahead. To the Hague with the precedent for allowing an innocent(Bwhahahahaha)life to be taken.
∅ (e7577d) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:09 amRaiding villages, terrorizing womens and childrens is unacceptable, I tells ya! Obambi McBidenclinton must be prosecuted! Free Mumia! Viva Revolucion!
The old switcheroo, with the hostages, I think the Seals saw Bin Laden, took the shot, but these expost
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:15 amfacto accounts, tend to muddle up the narrative.
‘Tis true, Aaron. Choice between a live martyr and a dead one. Easy deal, I’ll take the dead one, every time.
As you indicated:
We don’t need the, conspiracy theories, ohhs, umms. What we do need are jobs, oil/fuel security (drill baby drill), future or continued security against the other “bin Laden’s” out there and stopping the illegals, among other things.
JP (c4988c) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:16 amWhere were they going to put him if captured? Gitmo? Zero painted himself into a corner with that stupid EO regarding Guantanamo.
There’s a big difference between Office of the President-elect and POTUS. It’s called reality. There is nothing like war. Pretending that war can be fought without collateral damage is an unserious approach to conflict, assuring more conflict, and inflicting more casualties in the long run.
∅ (e7577d) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:19 amMeh. Fog of war and all that. I’m not surprised the details aren’t 100% accurate.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:19 amOK, mark me down as a cynic, but it sounds to me like Obama and staff realized that Osama bin Hiding would be thousands of times more trouble alive and in out hands than he would be dead, ordered a ‘kill on sight’ raid, and then thrashed around ineffectually on every other issue because the decision violated their intellectually flabby ‘principals’ and it derailed their sub-standard brains.
In short, they made the right decision on killing the twerp, and then ran around like headless chickens gobbling “How will we explain it to our Base? How will we explain it to the U.N.? The World Court is going to be MEAN to us!”
C. S. P. Schofield (8b1968) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:20 amCSP
Its pretty much what i said in one of the items in the big news roundup post yesterday.
Aaron Worthing (73a7ea) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:30 amJust my opinion Aaron, but I feel in their need to put this out there, they didn’t take the time to get the story straight. It actually explains a lot of things, such as the confusion you cite as well as Obama’s unusual non-partisan tone during his address; I originally speculated that his handlers simply hadn’t time to react…
Generally one would wait until reviewing all of the video that each of the SEAL team members would have by virtue of the com rigs they wear. Just as with aircraft gun-camera footage, it would have been reviewed judiciously before a definitive statement was made to the world.
But what we have is, by and large, a bunch of amateurs in the civilian portion of the chain of command, and in their zeal to trumpet far and wide that Obama himself! had taken down Osama, they ignored the aphorism about discretion being the better part of valor, and such.
Instead of reviewing the footage first, deciding what info to release, telling the press they would get the full story at a later date, and then “going to print”, they instead made it up as they went along; up to and including the burial at sea.
Just my two cents…
Bob Reed (5f2db5) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:30 amKman, do you understand what the saying, “the fog of war”, means?
Because in the age of gun cameras and on-body camera rigs it especially doesn’t mean “not getting the details 100% accurate”…
Bob Reed (5f2db5) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:33 amWhen that incident happened in Nasiriyah, eight years ago, you were equally understanding right kfed?
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:34 amFOW versus shaping the narrative.
If one trusts POTUS and his crew, it is obviously FOW. If one does not, then suspicions and other interpretations are difficult to set aside.
I counsel patience here; there is no need to go all DailyKos or LGF. Too many honorable folk know exactly what happened, or will learn, to allow BS to endure on this.
jim2 (a9ab88) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:35 amIt’s not necessarily wrong or even inconsistent.
A woman was killed. She was also used as a human shield, but not necessarily by Bin Laden himself. And she may not have been Bin Laden’s wife.
steve (369bc6) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:37 amHe could have been hiding behind another woman, who wasn’t hurt.
Everybody who sourced this was off-the-record…there is a reason for that, and there is a reason the information was not officially released. I would love it, just once, if a reporter would expose an erroneous source.
TimesDisliker (9df71a) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:38 amNo he used himself as a human shield.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:41 amTimes
if you are saying the original story was based on anonymous sources, that is wrong. it came from brennan.
Aaron Worthing (73a7ea) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:41 amJust because she wasn’t killed does not mean she wasn’t shot, and I can see where somewhere along the chain of communication how “shot” turned into “killed”. But that does not mean that she wasn’t snatched up and used as a shield. it just means that the shooter was able to complete a head shot without killing her. The shots in the abdomen could have been through and through through his “shield” and she might have survived whereas he might not have, particularly after the head shot…. and it would make sense that they would go for COM shots first in an attempt to take him alive but have to do a head shot when he refused to surrender. For once, I have to agree with Kman (GOD that is hard to say!), fog of war.
Rorschach (c5574d) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:44 amYeah, Brennan got it wrong, but no harm no foul.
Important points are (1) we got bin Laden and (2) we hit a mother lode of computer data.
I can live with the other mistakes in reporting.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:45 amTeh Narrative is being revised on the fly. Sure the establishment press can be counted on to make up details, misinform, and botch the story as they compete to lick Obama’s boots. They’re sycophants after all, not journalists.
But the story line doesn’t seem quite right. Osama unprotected living in luxury, no Americans killed, helicopter malfunction, quick burial at sea. To me, it just doesn’t have the ring of truth.
It looks more like a set-up than anything else.
ropelight (d4d2cd) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:51 amAnother point: there are way too many ‘sources’ talking about the details. The public didn’t need to learn that our guys got computers. We didn’t need to know operational details of the attack. Or that he was found through tracking his courier.
How much has this talking alerted the remaining network to be cautious? How many more bad guys could we have found through his courier if the guy wasn’t outed?
steve (369bc6) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:57 ami’m not into conspiracy theories but i have consumed so much mis/dis-information and conflicting information on this topic that i no longer believe anything anyone in the government says about bin Laden.
jc (1d3125) — 5/3/2011 @ 7:02 amExcuse me, but wasn’t this all taking place on camera – WITH THE PRESIDENT WATCHING. So why would he say something, when he knew it wasn’t true? Why do I get the feeling that the Administration is now trying to make Osama look like less than the scumbag he was. Even if it wasn’t true, what exactly is the harm in saying it. Could it be that the Left Loons in this administration simply cannot deal with the idea of our military looking good, and another one of their “revolutionary hero’s” turning out to be pond scum.
Mike Giles (d06ce7) — 5/3/2011 @ 7:04 amWell we know because of Risen and Bamford, why he was off the grid, so you have a point there, so they saw him, they took the shot, end of story.
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/3/2011 @ 7:05 amA photo has been released by the White House of what is being called the “situation” room. In it there is a table with [approx.] four laptops on it and notables sitting around the table (Clinton, Gates, Biden) with Obama sitting off to the side. A high rank, with loads of fruit salad, is at the head of the table in a overstuffed leather chair. All seemed to be watching a screen. There is at least a dozen other people standing behind the group at the table.
A few things I noticed about the photo; Hillary has her hand over her mouth like she is very nervous, Bob Gates looks determined, Joe Biden has his typical clueless look on his face, but Obama looks angry. And he is still in his golf clothing.
Now, I have read that Obama played golf Sunday, and this operation went down at 3:30 p.m., EST. Can anyone confirm that?
So the photo presents me with some questions: if this was a planned operation (it was cancelled from Saturday due to weather), why are all those people standing as if they had just been called into the room with short notice; why does Obama look so angry when Gates and Clinton are obviously concerned? Why would Obama be sitting off to the side, not in front of a computer as Gates and Clinton are?
Also, this a.m. Brennan said it was not true that KSM gave up information on the courier after being waterboarded? Is that damage control? Who first put it out there that KSM did what was claimed? That info was put out immediately. Why did Brennan wait until this morning to deny it?
It seems to me that the White House jumped the gun on releasing info. I agree they should have waited until all the video and audio was reviewed, and re-reviewed, to make sure that all releases to the press, and the nation, were correct.
I will say this: if Obama was playing golf Sunday, knowing that he was about to send 40 Navy SEALs into the mouth of the beast, with the possibility it could go bad, he is not cool, he is one cold fish. No, I don’t think he should have sat around bitting his nails, but I do think he would have wanted to be involved in the mission from the git-go, including lift off from Bagram. I mean, come on, the capture, or killing, of ObL is the most important event since 9-11.
I think in the coming days, we are going to hear various stories on one event. How long before it begins to look like the White House acts like a bunch of Keystone Cops?
retire05 (2d538e) — 5/3/2011 @ 7:36 amMike
my understanding is that all the president could see was outside. not the helmet cams, if there were any.
Aaron Worthing (73a7ea) — 5/3/2011 @ 7:40 amRemember that during the Bush administration “fog of war” was translated to mean perfidy by the President.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/3/2011 @ 7:50 amSeriously? THIS is the best you can do for criticism?
Dick Cheney (c03c68) — 5/3/2011 @ 9:23 amAgreed that the stuff coming out now about all the intel from the computers and files seized is stupid to be released. the smart thing was to say NOTHING about how much intel was garnered. if anything they should be saying how little they captured to put the rest of the organization at ease so that they haven’t made irrelevant any potential intel captured. The fire immediately after was a good idea so that operatives could not go in and see what may have been taken afte the raid was over, but we should not be talking about it publicly. That shows just how clueless this administration really is. as to Obama’s golf outing, agreed. the man had just ordered two aircraft full of SEALS to violate sovereign airspace which is an act of war in of itself. the man should not be whacking golf balls, he should at a MINIMUM have his ass planted in a chair in the Situation room following what is going on. he OWED the men that much attention at least. Freaking mental lightweight!
Rorschach (c5574d) — 5/3/2011 @ 9:33 amWait, we’re blabbing about the intel we got from computers?
Why?
Why can’t this administration handle the war on terror? They just learned that their entire approach to interrogation was wrong, and their predecessors was more productive. One reason they didn’t know that in 2007 was that the Bush administration was much more tight lipped. Can’t they appreciate why? They undermined themselves politically in order to actually get OBL, stop attacks in NY or LA, etc.
They should have said nothing about intel they gathered. They are trying too hard to prove they are effective at warfare, but this is just one isolated hit. Taking down OBL once we found him was no easy feat, I admit, but finding him was even more impressive.
Learn your lesson, Obama. While it seems they are following Bush’s lead on Afghanistan and Iraq, they didn’t do that with Libya at all, and I’m worried they are simply trying too hard to establish themselves politically.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/3/2011 @ 9:40 amDustin, this administration is clearly far more petty and interested in CYA than the Bush administration.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/3/2011 @ 9:43 amAn awful lot of this public flailing around makes sense if you assume Obama *likes* having conspiracy theories flying around him and his administration. And perhaps he does, so long as he knows they’re the right, (IOW, wrong.) theories. Maybe he figures it makes some of his opponents look stupid, so he goes out of his way to encourage them?
Brett Bellmore (6652c2) — 5/3/2011 @ 9:43 amStrike while the iron is hot!
bin Laden is reported to have been at that location for years, and the US is said to have known about his presence for months. That sounds like a crock.
No one with the brains of a peanut would wait that long to spring the trap. Anyone on the lam knows to keep moving around, constantly changing locations is about the only way for a high value target to evade capture.
More and more, this story doesn’t hold water. The only way bin Laden was there for years is with the acquiescence, at the very least, of the the government and the ISI, and more likely their active cooperation.
Additionally, there is no way the US would have waited months to go in after bin Laden if they knew he was there. There can be no valid excuse for such a time delay. bin Laden has slipped through our fingers before, and waiting months to launch an assault is beyond the bounds of rational thought.
ropelight (253033) — 5/3/2011 @ 9:57 amWhen it comes to conspiracy theories, Iran’s theory wins the prize.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/3/2011 @ 10:50 amThat is an extremely kooky theory, Kman. However, it’s not really a prize winner, since it’s a rehash of what a lot of democrats and Ron Paul nuts have said for years.
In fact, it shares elements with Michael Moore’s reaction that we finally had to put down our own tool.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/3/2011 @ 10:54 amHe wasn’t armed either ? Not even a banana ?
Neo (03e5c2) — 5/3/2011 @ 11:13 amand now we find out the little terrorist monkey wasn’t even armed – so why wasn’t he captured?
That’s just piss-poor leadership on bumble’s part I think. In the fight against terrorism you really can’t afford to squander an opportunity on the scale of interrogating the head of the mostest dangerous terrorist organization in the whole world.
Well, unless you think it will help your ghetto trash coward ass politically I guess.
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/3/2011 @ 11:16 amFISA approval isn’t required for interception of calls outside of the USA, only when one or both parties are in the country. FISA didn’t get involved in the courier’s call unless he was communicating with someone in the US, which is highly unlikely.
Corky Boyd (202337) — 5/3/2011 @ 11:22 amFolks, one of the reasons why I didn’t rush to dismiss/condemn/ridicule birthers is because I didn’t want people to get used to the idea that people should just take the government’s word for anything without providing evidence.
Already, we’re being asked to swallow that in-between Osama’s skull being violently aerated and his burial at sea mere hours later, wizbang DNA tests previously unknown to man that are super, super accurate and super, super fast were used to verify that the dead guy was bin Laden (via remote to D.C. from Pakistan!). If you had seen that on C.S.I., you would have chuckled at a suggestion that it was any closer to the reality of police work than the ubiquitous glass walls. But the backlash against birthers has people who demand more transparency covering their heads in expectation of rotting fruits and veggies. Now, it doesn’t seem to be important for the White House to get its own story straight.
I hope that Americans aren’t being slowly conditioned to think that we have only the choice of believing our leaders or people who are labeled as crazy (fairly or not) by a compliant media majority.
L.N. Smithee (eca0f0) — 5/3/2011 @ 12:29 pm“and now we find out the little terrorist monkey wasn’t even armed – so why wasn’t he captured?”
Mr. Feets – In Teh Won’s campaign speech Sunday night he said he said he sent our men to kill Bin Laden, not kill or capture if I recall correctly. Sounds like the ROE were clear.
Maybe there is an Al Qaeda-Democrat connection bumble did not want coming out, just like Teddy Kennedy and the commies 30 years ago.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/3/2011 @ 12:36 pmGood point, LN Smithee. There’s nothing wrong with asking the US government to divulge proof of their claims. After all, we paid for Obama’s mission. Our military risked lives, and lost lives, over a long effort.
The DNA verification can’t do more than prove someone related to Osama was taken out, but he is very tall, in an area where people are not tall (I mean perhaps we can rule out his brothers and cousins).
Obama is not doing all he can to put this to bed, which is a familiar theme, I suppose, but I don’t want to dig into other controversies.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/3/2011 @ 12:38 pm“Now, it doesn’t seem to be important for the White House to get its own story straight.”
L.N. – They are still in the process of getting the story straight on Bin Laden and it is amusing to see. You would have thought they would have learned the lesson by now not to let Brennan anywhere near a microphone without supervision.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/3/2011 @ 12:40 pmI disagree. We were monitoring anyone surrounding al Kuwaiti. That’s thousands of calls. None of them relied on a call center based in the USA? I suspect they could have gotten a warrant, anyway, but the interception of such calls was also a political issue.
It seems a little unrealistic to focus on a single call. We had to cast a wider net to have any hope of finding anything, and we did that in a general strategy of learning all we can about Al Qaida, which did have US Operations ongoing.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/3/2011 @ 12:41 pmBin Laden wasn’t captured because all of the ravings of the Democrat anti-war Left are now meaningless noise since there isn’t a Republican president to undermine in his efforts to protect the United States.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/3/2011 @ 12:41 pm
L.N. Smithee (eca0f0) — 5/3/2011 @ 12:45 pmBelieve me, I don’t either. But they seem to relish deliberately creating them.
“FISA didn’t get involved in the courier’s call unless he was communicating with someone in the US, which is highly unlikely.”
Corky – Do you have inside information or is that just another ass pull.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/3/2011 @ 12:49 pmHe’s using common sense and weighing likelihoods.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/3/2011 @ 12:50 pm“He’s using common sense and weighing likelihoods.”
Kman – Based on what inputs?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/3/2011 @ 12:56 pmNo, this isn’t likely. We obviously intercepted tens of thousands of calls in this search for Al Kuwaiti, and a more general search for information about Al Qaida. These people had dealing within a degree or two of separation from the USA.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/3/2011 @ 12:59 pmand now we find out the little terrorist monkey wasn’t even armed – so why wasn’t he captured?
Well, one reason among many is that if we held Osama alive, then al Qaeda could have captured a few dozen inocent people in various countries and held them for ransom. For that matter, they wouldn’t even need to capture anyone … just kill one random infidel child per hour by sniper fire until we release Osama.
Already, we’re being asked to swallow that in-between Osama’s skull being violently aerated and his burial at sea mere hours later, wizbang DNA tests previously unknown to man that are super, super accurate and super, super fast were used to verify that the dead guy was bin Laden (via remote to D.C. from Pakistan!).
Why do people think that the Obama administration is suddenly telling the truth when it comes to the tale of Osama being buried at sea?
I hope they were smart enough that they said they had tossed the body overboard but actually kept it on ice until such time as it might be needed.
Murgatroyd (fd5fcd) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:00 pmNot quite true. Until Bush’s changes, even if both parties were overseas the law still applied so long as the call passed through the USA, which so many calls do.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:01 pm“Said Brennan, “The president had to evaluate the strength of that information, and then made what I believe was one of the most gutsiest calls of any president in recent memory.””
Total crap. It was the only call to make. If Obama did not authorize the mission, it would have leaked out that he had passed up an opportunity to get Bin Laden and his reelection would have been toast.
People are still talking about Clinton’s missed opportunities to get the SOB and we don’t even know what documents Sandy Berger stole and destroyed.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:09 pm“Well, one reason among many is that if we held Osama alive, then al Qaeda could have captured a few dozen inocent people in various countries and held them for ransom”
Murgatroyd – I don’t buy that scenario, because Al Qaeda can do that kind of stuff now.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:11 pmI loved reading how the hideout was constructed 5 years ago and our government “intelligence” kept asking itself “who was it made for?” as the intel and press settled the idea he was in Pakistan a few years ago.
SiliconDoc (7ba52b) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:12 pmThis is to me the way our nation now works, which is so far from speedy, efficient, reasonable, or anything like it – just like the legal system that takes YEARS to get a single thing done.
I predict ten years of lawsuits filings over the matter, and 20 years of court cases.
Gutsiest call?!?! Good Allah.
JD (306f5d) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:15 pmI am glad Osama is gone. But I have to wonder why everyone keeps saying this was such a courageous call for Obama to make…really? That sort of leads one to believe that there was a safe alternative he could have taken…well, what is it? Can you imagine the reaction if people found out that he knew where Osama was and Obama did not know what to do with the man so he just sort of did nothing? With the CIA leaking like a sieve? I think Obama did the same thing most presidents would have done under the circumstances, he told them to go kill the man. But since then there has been so much confusion and contradictory information that it is easy to understand why some people might wonder just what really happened over there.
Terrye (7c855d) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:33 pm” and now we find out the little terrorist monkey wasn’t even armed – so why wasn’t he captured?
response: …Well, one reason among many is that if we held Osama alive, then al Qaeda could have captured a few dozen inocent people in various countries and held them for ransom…. ”
SiliconDoc (7ba52b) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:34 pm—
I’m waiting for the holy grail Obama party to come down from their mountain of lies and tell us all how “THE MARTYR” is now the most dangerous situation we have ever faced….
Of course, we already heard how that fear is in full motion, as Homeland Security forces reportedly made “shows of force” and “feint” runs through the streets of NYC with lights on and sirens silent just to ” keep the terrorists in check or smoke them out and catch them as they scattered”.
COMEDIC THEATRE
—
Perhaps they’d have done better to call it some victory laps – now that I wouldn’t have complained about.
Comment by daleyrocks — 5/3/2011 @ 1:09 pm
My thoughts exactly. What else would anyone do?
Terrye (7c855d) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:34 pm“I’m waiting for the holy grail Obama party to come down from their mountain of lies and tell us all how “THE MARTYR” is now the most dangerous situation we have ever faced….”
SiliconDoc – We already know the liberal media is too afraid of the backlash from moderate Muslims to publish the Mohammed Cartoons in this country, so this should be an awesome few weeks of media fear factor to behold.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:38 pmI guess I shouldn’t have rushed to give him credit there. I realize you’re right… he hardly could have taken the results of this decade long hunt and then done nothing. But he let the military take their time doing this right, and there are some risks there. He could have involved Pakistan, the UN, or other ‘friends’. He could have sent in a drone or missile. He could have sent in a far larger force to siege the compound and demand surrender (ok, now I’m really reaching).
Easy call to send in the ‘Cheney assassination team’? Sure, but it was a big call and he did make the right one.
I have already mocked a couple of these ‘deathers’, but I think I need to wait and see what evidence Obama eventually shows the American people. While I am confident we did kill OBL, I think it’s reasonable to expect some accurate information, rather than this shifting narrative that often seems to address criticisms ad hoc.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:40 pmI think it had to have been a tough call. I’m sure every President doesn’t want another “Black Hawk Down” situation, or the failed Iran hostage rescue (in Carter’s term). You’re sending good men into harm’s way, on a risky mission. And keep in mind, he was told there was “only” a 60-70% chance that OBL was there.
I wouldn’t have faulted him (or any other person in his position) for saying “no” to the mission. Or “I need better intel” or whatever. Or, even deciding to bomb the place behind all recognition.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:42 pm“My thoughts exactly. What else would anyone do?”
Terrye – I think Obama would normally dither longer, consult lawyers, or maybe tell Pakistan to deal with the problem. Voting present is his MO, not making decisions.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:42 pmGuess you can lay that meme to rest.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:43 pm” I think in the coming days, we are going to hear various stories on one event. How long before it begins to look like the White House acts like a bunch of Keystone Cops?”
Remember when the O and his minions had to make the big cheeser flight over NYC and the thousands of little people scattered screaming in fear as the O-idiot breached forbidden airspace with jets in tow for the photo op ?
Keystone Cops and CLUELESS is the key feature, and “managing the media massaging” and “pro O msm” montage is “the main focus”.
That’s why we have what Trump is talking about – a bunch of spineless fools who get taken to the cleaners by every nation in the world… this recent cabal of fools not only pays every dime we haven’t got through the nose, but makes the deep BOWS emphasizing the “humble and deranged arrogance” of the endless DC fiat money tree used for “face saving operations” worldwide.
It’s such a theme, that now, instead of KILLING THE ENEMY ( I guess we kind of have this recent exception though expecting it to be the new trend is foolish) we offer endless bails of money and 25M cash prizes…
When the fake money printing and borrow from thin air party is over, think we can get back to common sense ?
SiliconDoc (7ba52b) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:44 pmI certainly don’t.
Are you serious? How do you know Obama didn’t waffle on this decision, or pass the decision to his subordinates, voting present again? How do you know he didn’t have a little committee of advisers handle this?
Why do you keep making stuff up?
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:46 pm” That’s why we have what Trump is talking about – a bunch of spineless fools who get taken to the cleaners by every nation in the world… this recent cabal of fools not only pays every dime we haven’t got through the nose, but makes the deep BOWS emphasizing the “humble and deranged arrogance” of the endless DC fiat money tree used for “face saving operations” worldwide.”
I should have known better when I saw the libs screaming the USA exploits every natural resource in every nation on the face of the earth …. that the exact opposite is actually true, and we in reality are getting the iron shaft up the backside 100% of the time.
Leave it to the libs to tell the exact opposite of the truth and make it a party platform theme so that the real truth, the spineless destruction of the USA through worldwide lib welfare can continue endlessly until the “transformation” is complete.
SiliconDoc (7ba52b) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:47 pmDustin, you crack me up.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:48 pmKmart – you crack me up. Watching you reflexively be a contrarian, and make stuff up, is simply hysterical.
JD (b98cae) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:52 pmcouldn’t have said it better myself.
Kman, several times now you have provably lied in these threads. How many times have you called me a liar for summarizing a point you made, only to flee the thread once I quote your comment?
You have no credibility here, and that’s why you are ashamed to associate your comments here with your blog. You’re a proven partisan hack.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:54 pmDustin, you’re probably right: Obama probably left the decision-making about whether to conduct the raid to his staff and he voted “present” — just as you’ve surmised (because that’s how that do it in the Oval Office; they take votes). Once again, you caught me in a lie for suggesting something which makes, rather than defies, common sense.
Have a nice day, Sancho.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/3/2011 @ 2:03 pmRacist
JD (306f5d) — 5/3/2011 @ 2:16 pmI have already mocked a couple of these ‘deathers’, but I think I need to wait and see what evidence Obama eventually shows the American people. While I am confident we did kill OBL, I think it’s reasonable to expect some accurate information, rather than this shifting narrative that often seems to address criticisms ad hoc.
Comment by Dustin — 5/3/2011 @ 1:40 pm
I don’t think they are all just deathers either. A friend of mine said he wondered if it was possible that bin Laden had not been dead and gone for awhile and this was a story they came up with to cover up for an earlier mission. In other words, he was dead but no one wanted to say so for fear there would be hell to pay and now they figure the Muslim world does not even care that much so it is time to make him dead officially. I don’t think that is true, but I do think that some of the people who are doubting the official story {stories} are not people who think OBL is alive..they just don’t think they are hearing the truth.
Terrye (7c855d) — 5/3/2011 @ 2:23 pmHave a nice day,sancho
Is sancho your inflatable boyfriend?
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/3/2011 @ 2:25 pmMy thoughts exactly. What else would anyone do?
I think it had to have been a tough call. I’m sure every President doesn’t want another “Black Hawk Down” situation, or the failed Iran hostage rescue (in Carter’s term). You’re sending good men into harm’s way, on a risky mission. And keep in mind, he was told there was “only” a 60-70% chance that OBL was there.
I wouldn’t have faulted him (or any other person in his position) for saying “no” to the mission. Or “I need better intel” or whatever. Or, even deciding to bomb the place behind all recognition.
Comment by Kman — 5/3/2011 @ 1:42 pm
Bombing the place is a lot different than putting your hands over your ears and just pretending you did not hear someone say that they had found Osama Bin Laden…the man ran on getting the guy…remember how Saddam was just a distraction but by Golly Obama was going to go get that OBL guy. There is no way any president could have just ignored this..anything could have happened..a leak, someone else from some other country leaking the information. And what if Osama planned some attack and killed a bunch of people while you were worrying about black hawk down..nah, this was a no brainer..besides, I am not sure we would have known if it had been a disaster. I don’t remember any news about it when it happened. I have a feeling they would have said they took out a safe house and that was that.
Terrye (7c855d) — 5/3/2011 @ 2:28 pmMy thoughts exactly. What else would anyone do?”
Terrye – I think Obama would normally dither longer, consult lawyers, or maybe tell Pakistan to deal with the problem. Voting present is his MO, not making decisions.
Comment by daleyrocks — 5/3/2011 @ 1:42 pm
They supposedly found this place nine months ago…that is dithering.
Terrye (7c855d) — 5/3/2011 @ 2:29 pmAnd now we hear that he did dither for 16 hours. 16 hours in which Osama could have learned that his courier’s name was in the latest Wikileaks dump, and skedaddled. He’s lucky that didn’t happen.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 5/3/2011 @ 3:48 pmThe WH Press Office is trying to tell too much too soon, as this AP story makes clear. Cordesman makes a good point about unrealistic expectations and the difficulty of nailing things down quickly after an operation like this. Still, they’ve got to slow things down and make sure they’ve got it right before they share it.
angeleno (f3c408) — 5/3/2011 @ 4:38 pmhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1383067/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-Pakistan-spy-agencys-failures-Abbottabad-hideout.html
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/3/2011 @ 4:41 pmBTW, this is a worthwhile warning re scammers trying to take advantage of this story on FB and Google.
angeleno (f3c408) — 5/3/2011 @ 4:48 pmActually, there is a report (not a very credible one) that Obama was arm-twisted into green lighting the Bin Laden op.
And the 16 hour dither is characteristic of Obama, there were reports that the Somali pirate op of a couple of years ago involved endless dithering from the White House and only went off because the captain on the scene ignored 90% of the horse manure “ROE” he got from the White House.
Shades of Lyndon Johnson approving Vietnam bombing targets line by line.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:09 pmYeah SPQR, keep trash-talking the president’s role in one of the most celebrated display of presidential gutsyness and wits in recent years. Maybe that will make it easier for you to live down the thought that maybe this could be a major turning point to his presidency. Keep spinning it. Typical partisanship. USA! USA!! USA!!! USA!!!!
The Emperor (2e3498) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:22 pmAs I’ve pointed out on many occasions, from the outset, the left cooperated with the Wahhabi elements through such structures like the Levick
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:35 pmGroup, to stigmatize virtually every intelligence and military official, and practically canonize every detainee in Bagram, Gitmo, Constantinesco AFB
(in Romania) Stare Frejutska (in Poland) against the NSA TSP, Dana Priest, Jane Mayer, Michael Isikoff, Scott Shane, all set the template, rumor, innuendo, (as in the flushed Koran) counted, actual plots disrupted didn’t
“In recent years”, i.e. in the past two years.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 5/3/2011 @ 6:35 pmmmm
i’m not going to complain about obama taking 16 hours to decide. But let’s hear no more about my pet goat, okay?
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real estate logo (d77ef1) — 5/22/2011 @ 6:57 am