What the Hell? Report: Bin Laden Buried at Sea, “In Accordance with Islamic Law”
How long did it take Obama to fuck this up? Not long. Forgive the profanity, which as you know is rare on my site, but there really is no other way to describe what Jake Tapper tells us on Twitter:
OBL’s body was buried at sea, in accordance w Islamic law, at 0200 DC time, per US official.
Where do I start?
First of all, I think I speak for many Americans when I say: I don’t give a rat’s ass what Islamic law tells us should happen to bin Laden’s body. Either bin Laden carried out Islam faithfully, in which case it is an evil religion, or (as I believe) he distorted Islam to make it into a religion that calls for mass murder of innocents. Either way, the idea that “Islamic law” should govern what we do with the body of this mass murderer is so laughably outrageous that I hope I will wake up to the news that Tapper’s source got this terribly, terribly wrong.
Second, we have waited 10 years for this. People need to see the body. They need to see the evidence. Someone wrote Instapundit earlier in the evening to say: “When do we get to see the long form death certificate?” It’s a funny crack, but beneath the surface of the joke lies a hard reality: we live in a country where people ignored tons of evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii, and where others ignored tons of evidence that bin Laden and al Qaeda caused 9/11. And in a country apparently teeming with Birthers and Truthers, you’re telling me you’re gonna dump Osama bin Laden’s body in the sea in the middle of the night?
I mean, Mr. President, what will Donald Trump say?!
And once Obama realizes what a stupid move this was, there’s no taking it back. He can’t have his lawyer sign a letter requesting that Davy Jones return the body, ever so briefly, for a little look-see. If Tapper’s report is accurate, the fish of the sea are already enjoying the fruits of “Islamic law” by feasting on bin Laden’s carcass. (What provision of Islamic law calls for burial at sea anyway? This is the first I have heard of this.) No take-backs, no returns.
Look: if they did a DNA test, it’s good enough for me to prove his identity. But it’s an unutterably stupid move to just toss him overboard without giving the world a look. I mean, there really aren’t words to describe just what a meat-headed decision this was.
I write this at 12:50 a.m. Pacific. Most Americans have gone to bed ecstatic in the knowledge that we finally got the son of a bitch.
I have a feeling this whole burial-at-sea and “Islamic law” thing is going to come as kind of a nasty little surprise.
Wow.
UPDATE: I got a chance to sleep on it and I’m still offended. Let me be clear about why this is so wrong. It’s not the burial at sea — that makes sense, since you don’t want to create a shrine, and the thought of bin Laden getting nibbled to death by fish is a nice image. It’s not dumping the body in the middle of the night — that also makes sense, as there shouldn’t be a ceremony.
What rankles are the things I identified last night. First, it happened before any pictures or video have been released. At least one alleged picture that has circulated is a fake, which reminds us how easy it is to photoshop photographic “proof.” And while I’m sure they took photos and video and will release them at some point — surely they realize they can’t dump the body and release no evidence! — it would have helped quash conspiracy theories to give independent journalists a chance to photograph and videotape the body.
And why wasn’t this simple step taken? That’s the part that is infuriating: apparently because they wanted to rush the burial to conform with “Islamic law.” Well, when it comes to burying Osama bin Laden, Islamic law’s got nothing to do with it. Any Muslim who would be offended that bin Laden was not buried in accordance with Islamic tradition is a Muslim who supports terror. We should not care about offending such people, and fomenting suspicions just to mollify cretins like that strikes me as rank appeasement.
UPDATE x2: I’m going to try not to let this ruin my mood. It’s still a great day for this country when American forces shoot Osama bin Laden between the eyes. Whatever happens to his body is of secondary importance.
When do we get to meet the man (or men) who pulled the trigger? I’d like to buy them a beer, in accordance with Islamic law.
Is it just me?
Patterico (c218bd) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:00 amNot to put too fine a point on it, but fuck Islamic law. History – and the law – are supposed to be written by the winners.
Russ (91df94) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:02 amEarlier read twitter feed where quoted WH or sources saying that any photos of OBL on the internet were not real. Felt like that this somewhat implied real photos might be forthcoming. Otherwise feel like you do.
CardioNP (e65e5d) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:04 amI just finished “tweeting” this right before you posted this entry:
“So just to recap tonight, we found out that Bush’s Gitmo interrogation methods provided the name of the guy that led us to Bin Laden. It took two years for Obama and the intelligence community to locate this courier identified by Gitmo detainees. The courier led us to the compound housing OBL for 6 mos, and Pakistan knew all about it. OBL shot then dumped at sea. So far, no pics.”
I can’t believe how they handled this. We’re all jumping up and down shouting USA then while we sleep off what will probably be a nation-wide hangover, Obama orders the body dumped at sea and no pics released. I hope he at least has video, because if this turns into a situation of “trust us, it was him” he’s going to have hell to pay tomorrow.
Sean (ff2f3b) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:06 amPictures of the body are online already for everyone to see. It sure looks like him to me.
Why was he buried in accordance to Islamic tradition? Because civilized societies respect the rituals and customs of other cultures. Doesn’t matter who he was. Desecration of the body would give people on his side ammunition to further their hate, and would go against all values we hold dear.
He’s dead. We don’t need more than that.
Chris (2d9f9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:06 amNo it is not just you, half of North Idaho is asking the same quesrion. And the Arabs on my twitter feed are incredulous. What the, it is hard to not use profanity here, are they thinking. Even with Saddam’s sons we showed off the body.
Roy (e99cfc) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:07 amNo, it’s most of us. If true, Obama “acted stupidly”. The world needs to see Osama’s body. “Islamic law” should not be deferred to in Osama’s burial. Everything that can be done to reduce the influence of this evil man should be done. He should be buried shaved, naked, facing hell and covered in pigs blood in a dog park.
Tanny O'Haley (12193c) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:08 amTotally with you on this one. Completely boneheaded move.
I wondered when they left the press confrence so late why that was. This news leaves me very uneasy – this is the one thing where people should have been very, very careful to make sure that the evidence was rock hard.
scrubone (eb9c13) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:10 amI’m sure they have photos… and they’ll be released someday. They probably want to avoid “inflamation” or put out anything like Che’s death photos… but they have to know that how what they’re doing just encourages conspiracy theories.
http://www.google.com/search?q=che+dead
soren (9da715) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:14 amWhy were we being told by “officials” earlier tonight that DNA tests were done, but now no one is confirming that and instead we’re getting a story about facial recognition? I’m giving these guys the benefit of the doubt here that he’s dead, but I sure hope they did more than run a picture through a computer for verification before dumping his remains overboard.
Sean (ff2f3b) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:16 amTo bury an Islamic terrorist in accordance with “Islamic law” is to reward him and tells any other Islamic terrorist that they will go to heaven and collect their 72 virgins. It is just the wrong thing to do. Islamic terrorist should not be buried according to “Islamic law” to discourage them to be terrorists. It’s for our and the world’s safety.
Tanny O'Haley (12193c) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:18 amMaybe they had a sketch artist there to draw a cartoon of the body. 😉
Icy Texan (fc3a28) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:21 amNo amount of photo or documentary evidence will convince people who believe the Obama administration, Navy Seals, CIA etc. would agree to fake something like this. Such paranoia is impossible for people who base their opinions on facts, evidence and logic…
Big Median (2f532a) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:26 amDouchenozzle^^^^^
Icy Texan (fc3a28) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:28 amNot only your point, Pat
But, Obama made everyone wait a LONG time for the announcement and then it was when I realized he screwed up Apprentice viewing.
Topsecretk9 (ab69ad) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:30 amBig Median, I don’t believe for a moment anyone would fake this, my concern is the conflicting reports on how they verified it was OBL coupled with the reports that the body was buried at sea less than 24 hours after being killed. Seems rather quick, and with the holes in the reporting and official stories it will, as Michael Yon is pointing out tonight, do nothing to help quell the cult of OBL.
Sean (ff2f3b) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:31 amI read about this earlier this evening and have seen it several times since. Unprecedented! As Obama likes to say. Hopefully they castrated him and saved the evidence for the DNA tests.
Just when you finally think Obama did something worthwhile, he does the burial at sea routine. I’m with Tanny. He doesn’t deserve a hero’s burial at sea. WTF!
PatAZ (81cf34) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:31 amHmm, what to do with the body of a slain enemy who brought war upon the world?
Time to crack open my old copy of “Antigone”…
d. in c. (cae88c) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:34 amYou mean the fake one? (See the post below.)
Patterico (c218bd) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:35 amAgreed. This looks like an incredibly stupid move. While it may have been desirable to do eventually, there’s no reason to do it now. A burial site may have turned into a magnet for crazies of all stripes, but there’s no reason why they couldn’t have made an Osamasicle out of him and left him there until people got tired of asking to look at the body.
jvon (87c6d0) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:36 amI don’t know much about Islam, but I think their rules for burial is about the same as for the Jews, buried within 24 hours. Sorry if I am saying that wrong. So, it would be according to their belief to bury him so quickly. I say, let him dry out and then feed him to the dogs and/or the pigs. Nothing is too much for this murderer.
I need to go to bed. This makes me so angry.
PatAZ (81cf34) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:43 amTossing his stinking corpse into the ocean does have some merit.
I kinda like the ideas of fishies feeding on his private parts.
Dave Surls (f312db) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:47 amWell, look at it this way: it took our duffer-in-chief 27 months to finally do something right . . . and less than 8 hours to taint that one good thing with an act of idiocy.
Par for the course.
Icy Texan (fc3a28) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:50 amI’m with soren on this one: They waited a week to announce, in case DNA showed they killed was a body double. They would have HAD to have taken pictures, I can’t imagine the gall of Obama calling Bush to say “We got him” without proof enough to at least convince Bush. The body at sea in the middle of the night thing is COMPLETELY and ENTIRELY to create a distraction, and birth conspiracy theories. Mark. My. Words. I’m a birther from way back, and I believe this one.
xman (433032) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:01 amIf anything, they kept tabs on him until Obama needed political ammo, at which point they knocked on Osama’s door and made the move. Is it surprising to anyone that this is the week FOI information revealed that Obama is the illegitimate son of a foreign national? But never mind that, he got Osama!
As I understand it, islamic burial law does not mandate that you bury a corpse at sea hours (?) after the person’s death. You have to bathe him / her and position the corpse correctly.
If he was actually captured alive and requested an islamic funeral following the execution, MAYBE we honor that request.
But this is pretty strange.
lee (cae7a3) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:03 amWait a minute. I thought Osama bin Laden was a profound perverter of Islam, that he got his Islam totally wrong, and that the things he did and the things he said had nothing to do with Islam. As such, I think the implication constantly inferred by Muslims was that the guy wan NOT a Muslim… So why all the deference? And if he wasnt a Muslim, then why would desecrating his scabby non-Muslim carcass offend actual Muslims?
Morton Doodslag (3ece0a) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:32 amI for one would want to see the body as I’m sure many would & wondered the same thing, but suppose someone must of thought that would just outrage the terrorist more and give them more fuel for them believing their terrorust activities were justified.
Here’s a web site that might explain the sea burial:
http://www.seaservices.com/Muslim.htm
Frazled (49e7af) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:35 amReally? Have you SEEN the pictures? I’ve seen better photoshopping by my 7-year-old.
N Kelly (8a9a65) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:38 amThe burial at sea wasn’t according to Islamic law, the burial/body preparations before hand were handled according to Islamic ritual and the burial was withing the 24 hour period under Islamic law.
The DNA tests won’t be back for days.
The news has said that there are picture but none have been released yet and the ones floating around on line are fakes and have been around for awhile.
They verified who he was before killing him and they gave him a chance to surrender which OBL refused. They killed his oldest son and two couriers who lived there, but reports are that 2 of OBL’s wives and 6 of his children were taken into custody, I assume by the Pakistanis. Special forces normally films all these types of actions and there is no chance they didn’t film OBL.
They’ve known since last August about this compound and you can bet there is lots of video of people coming and going in the hands of the CIA.
Sara (Pal2Pal) (4d3f49) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:38 amIt took 40 Navy Seals and 40 minutes to pull off the whole operation from start to finish, including the removal of OBL’s body.
Sara (Pal2Pal) (4d3f49) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:40 amI think we should assume that there has existed for years a detailed protocol/plan regarding what exactly to do with this guy if/when we ever tracked him down. Presumably the “buried at sea” thing has practical motives, like defusing riots and preventing his grave from becoming a shrine, etc, and isn’t really about respecting the guy’s last wishes. For instance, what if we held on to the body and then his “legit” family back in KSA demanded custody in order to give him a hero’s burial in Medina? Sticky sticky sticky, eh.
Look, all that happened is the US government _said_ they buried him at sea. Since when do y’all take every USG statement at face value?
For all we know, the guy’s severed head may be sitting in Dick Cheney’s beer fridge in his garage. Or maybe his skeleton is in the secret underground REAL Smithsonian, located underneath the Museum of Jurassic Technology. We’ll never really know, unless we someday get Double-Secret Security Clearance.
d. in c. (cae88c) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:41 amI was hoping to follow the time honored Islamic tradition of dragging his body through the streets (of New York).
Perfectsense (1904c1) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:54 amPEOPLE THERE IS NO ISLAMIC LAW THAT SAYS PEOPLE ARE BURRIED SEA..!!!!! this has never happened and never will happen in Islam unless it is totally necessary…
I am an American Muslim and I know what I am talking about….
this is obviously a retarded cover up because Osama bin Laden has either been dead for a long time now OR he isn’t dead..!!
oh and did i hear something about pictures??? can you say “photo shop”??
i can’t believe that people are eating this shit up and then getting upset because they think that the US gov decided to honor Islamic law……
the US gov doesn’t give a rat’s ass about honoring Islamic law…. so why should it now??!!
Sam (8e2796) — 5/2/2011 @ 3:21 amafter the first thousand people murdered, one gives up ones rights to have religious burial preferences.
dana (665025) — 5/2/2011 @ 3:42 amMe, I question the timing. Obama is at the bottom of the polls, gas is $5.00 a gallon, and old boy needs a win.
Tada! We got Osama bin Laden!! Only, we sort of dumped the body before anybody could get a good look at it.
Most transparent administration, evah.
Steve b (42224f) — 5/2/2011 @ 3:57 amthere’s something that needs to be said here.i don’t like being called a conspiracy theorist.though,i do have my doubts as to the authenticity of this historical news.something doesn’t settle right in my stomach.okay,saddam hussein was a muslim who,to the best of my knowledge,would’ve made him a follower of islam.however,the world was shown the video footage of that bastard’s trial,and {in some cases}his execution-so with that being said,let me say this;mr president,i voted for you and did so with what i believed was for all the right reasons.but this move makes no sense.honoring the wishes of the terrorists so as not to inflame an already volatile abhorence these terrorists have for us,is without a doubt the dumbest mistake we as americans could make!our enemies will see this an think it’s open season on america,and target us due to the fact that we’ll respect them and honor them.it would be naive to think that conspiracy buffs aren’t already having a field day with this peculiar move the president has implemented.i know theories are already swirling in my cerebellum as we speak.i just hope that this was not a method for obama to further his political career.if this man who was “alledgedly”buried at sea,isn’t OBL,well the shit is going to hit the proverbial fan.
hr (b21374) — 5/2/2011 @ 4:05 amReagan would have pulled Bin Ladens severed head out of a bowling ball bag right there in the East Room…
Frank Drackman (da969f) — 5/2/2011 @ 4:08 amChris – care to revise your assertions?
Big MFM median’s record of consecutive mendoucheity remains intact.
I hope someone pranked Tapper and this is just a bad joke.
JD (b98cae) — 5/2/2011 @ 4:30 am“Buried at sea” is a polite way of saying “We cut him into pieces and threw him to the sharks.”
Diplomacy!
Pious Agnostic (291f9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 4:44 amObama showing Osama respect in this way seems inappropriate.
Those who worry that this entire thing is a hoax should be careful. I don’t think it’s really feasible to pull off a conspiracy of that nature.
I’m pretty confident they have proof, such as video and photos, and I think now is the time to release it. Please please please do not play politics with national security, Obama. I know that’s hard for you guys, but just release all you have now, instead of hoping to create doubt and drama to be dispelled later.
Ugh. I hate being so cynical, but Obama proved to be one of the most shameless on national security in American history. He was very hostile towards Bush’s national security decisions, before repeating or following or even doubling up on those same decisions. I know many cooler heads say we should credit Obama with this success, but it rests on the shoulders of a longer term effort that Obama made more difficult. Gitmo is a great example. Sure, Obama didn’t get in the way today, and that’s good, but in his speech, where he takes credit for personally analyzing intel and setting the doctrine of finding Osama, both aggressive attempts to take credit from other people, I remember what he was doing when Bush made tougher decisions with no political windfall.
We’ll see if Obama really showed Osama this respect. His body should not be buried yet, that’s for sure. We should keep it until we’re sure the world has accepted his death. That’s common sense, and no notion of respect for Osama bin Laden overrides that point.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 5:01 amI hear OBL is going to make a cameo in the next Pirates of the Caribbean movie.
5th Level Fighter (dd5bcf) — 5/2/2011 @ 5:04 amWe say no, on account of the atrocity on 9/11. Anyone who claims that isn’t good enough can safely be ignored. It seems more like the USA regaining her footing, than sticky. The people who think OBL deserves a nice funeral shouldn’t be getting any respect from anyone.
And Big Median’s whining makes no sense. Of course we need to show proof Osama bin Laden is dead. This is a very big deal. Most of OBL’s followers will not take our word for it. Hell, more of the world won’t. This isn’t about questioning one’s faith in the US Navy (I don’t get the point about believing the CIA never lies… of course that’s part of their job description). Showing Osama Bin Laden is dead is not about Obama’s political needs.
This isn’t about Obama at all. This is about the USA.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 5:07 amDustin – what hoax? Wanting confirmation does not suggest that one thinks it is a hoax. I would be willing to bet that they are making political calculations right now. He gave a freaking campaign speech last night, congratulating himself and Panetta on their bold efforts and a change of priority, suggesting it was not a priority previously. We will get pics eventually, only after they try to make out everyone wanting proof to be lunatic deathers that would never be satisfied with any evidence provided. Big MFM median already spelled out the narrative above.
JD (d48c3b) — 5/2/2011 @ 5:11 amOf course it isn’t, JD. There’s nothing wrong with expecting proof.
Disgusting, right? And he also claimed to have analyzed the intel personally, when of course someone else did that for him.
And he also was constantly criticism the Bush policies, such as Gitmo, that really got Osama captured. Finding him took years of hard work, and tremendous intel work, but Obama wants to take as much personal credit as possible, and of course that’s very aggravating. He made the right call to go take down the compound, and that’s the total of his contribution.
That is exactly what I’m worried will happen, too. It makes no sense that Obama hasn’t already released this information. The world is full of anti-Americanism. Every day we wait, many will assume whatever we eventually produce is fabricated. This might lead to some clever politics for democrats, but it also harms our national security interests.
This is a major psychological victory, and we need to go ahead and prove Osama is dead. I’m sure there is video of the compound, of Osama alive in it, and of Osama’s corpse. Also, if we aren’t insane, we still have OBL’s body. Getting rid of it serves no legitimate purpose, and keeping it for a little while would be an ace in the hole (I suspect we were insane, and really did throw his body to sea).
Anyway, all that aside, I do believe the story. If we haven’t seen video or photos within the next few hours, I’ll still be very concerned about it.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 5:22 amI meant criticizing, rather than criticism. Autocorrect snafu.
But I think this is a big part of the issue. How much credit do we owe Bush’s policies? Sure, this triumph didn’t happen on his watch, and it’s fair that Obama get credit for handling this successfully, but what about the intel successes that led us here, that began with the Bush administration’s efforts, some of which Obama played politics with?
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 5:26 am1. Agreed. Hope the Seals kept the ears tho.
gary gulrud (790d43) — 5/2/2011 @ 5:41 amMy intelligence is beyond insulted…it’s being raped without a kiss. And my consolation prize is…I didn’t vote for him or the other Bozo. It is scary to think that of all the serious contenders that were chosen for us, Sarah Palin..who I like as a person and HATE as a politician was probably the most stable and honest person in the race. But Ron Paul kicks her ass on every issue that counts. Do you think it is time for us to elect a Thinking Man’s President? Or are we on a Highway to Hell?
Sprachnessmonster (cebf05) — 5/2/2011 @ 5:45 amDustin
He killed the guy, dead – something Bill wouldnt do, I’m giving him credit for it and he richly deserves it regardless of his public stances – its what he got done and he did get it done.
I will work against his re-election though – but Obama did his duty.
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 5:49 amI’m just curious how in a country that revered osama, next to a very large military camp and surrounded by retired military generals with high security, we were able to kill osama in a 40 minute firefight, transport his body out, and a week later, the world found out by obama announcing it around midnight on a Sunday? Remarkable!
J (2946f2) — 5/2/2011 @ 5:49 amShouldn’t we have tried to bring him back alive to try him in NYC?
Gerald A (8e99c8) — 5/2/2011 @ 5:50 amI think this is a good pov to have, EPWJ. President Obama did his duty. It was a risky operation, but it was Obama’s duty to take this compound. That the operation was a success is a credit to President Obama.
I won’t give him a tremendous degree of credit, akin to a actual hard call, but he made the right call.
I just think there were other, harder calls, and Obama was condemning those before he took the oval office and flip flopped.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 5:59 amwow. Big News,,,
WonK SenK (048fac) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:00 amLaugh all you like, but my understanding is that they offered OBL a chance to peacefully surrender, and if so, they would have brought him home to a trial. But I bet the military under Bush would have done the exact same.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:00 amOk. OK. Let’s just acknowledge everyone agrees Obama is the most truthful President that has ever lived and would never, ever, no ways do anything to further his agenda at the expense of national security. Having said that, consider:
1. It took weeks of meetings/briefings and interrupting Obama’s golf games to decide to strike AFTER they confirmed OBL’s location.
2. The compound built, in one of the poorest nations on Earth complete with high walls, is in a neighborhood where it really, really stands out says “target me, please”. Talk about overbuilt for the area. Resale will be a huge issue.
3. OBL has used doubles and look a-likes and has for years.
4. The location is hundreds of miles from a US base as well as almost 600 miles from an ocean. Helicopters are not known for their speed.
5. Pakistani intell is almost an arm of Al-Qaeda/Taliban but reports place them there at the time of the assault.
6. There was virtually no OBL security force other than “couriers” unless you count his women and the stray goat that might have happened by or been in his harem.
7. No escape tunnel, panic room, etc., which implies they ran out of budget and/or failed to watch all those episodes of 24.
8. Islam demands burial on land but allows burial at sea if it is unavoidable meaning the body will decay before landfall.
Thus, one might surmise:
A. OBL is one of the most stupid, inept persons to walk the planet (this includes Obama) or Pakistan Islamic forces gave him up for martyrdom in order to get the US out of the region so they can turn it into another Islamic paradise.
B. Leon Panetta is assured becoming Sec. Def. as the “guy that fingered OBL”. Maybe 100-0 confirmation. Oh, and note the timing. The nomination came AFTER OBL was found and those endless meetings/briefings took place. Leon will now oversee the evisceration of the military.
C. Patraeus will now oversee the RIF’ing of the CIA. After all, it’s job is done, we caught the bad guys, we can rely on the international community and we need the money for the deficit. Patraeus is shelved, silenced and non-memoir’ed for 2012 – that Secrets Act thingy.
D. The Islamic world will be really, really inflamed with that burial at see. Flying over 600 miles of perfectly good land burial sites.
E. Even if DNA comes back saying it really was OBL there will be many that will point to BHO’s record of lies and deceit and simply not believe. Independent labs, Arab labs, etc., would have been the order of the day.
F. The US lost the ability to gather and any visitors to any “shrine” surrounding a burial site. We should have buried him on a small island accessible only by boat. Maybe even Gitmo’d any that visited.
G. Obama will give his “Our real mission has been accomplished” speech sometime soon. Then he will withdraw from virtually all Islam nations. All the “-stans”, Iraq, Iran, Egypt maybe even Turkey. And don’t forget withdrawing from the UK and the EU as well. Not sure about NATO but a strong possible. See B, above.
H. Even more pressure will be place upon Israel since “it’s a safer world now without OBL”.
I. Huge campaign ads from “Got him on his watch”, “Where others failed”, to “Now we can have Peace in our time”. Well, maybe not the last bit.
J. And perhaps the biggest plus of all – supposing this is all true – BHO has just created one of the biggest diversions in the history of US politics. This goes way beyond “birthers”, “truthers”, “Roswell”, “moon landing”, etc. You can simply see BHO saying “Some say…” and the Left will pick it up as more racist comments.
Burial at sea without first having a full examination by bunches and bunches of people may appear boneheaded but, rest assured, it could be the most outstanding political move of the this century and will keep a whole lot of folks “busy” that could have devoted their efforts to defeating Obama with real issues.
cedarhill (c4747c) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:10 amDustin,
We all hope people learn their lessons – Obama showed all future Democrats that – its okay to confront your enemies and kill them
Despite all the posturing and posing for electorial gains
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:16 amMy daughter just emailed me that West Point last night had a three hour bonfire and what she described as a celebratory riot!
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:18 amI have felt for a while that we should take every terrorist we can get our hands on and bury him (or occasionally her) with pigs and let it be known we did it. Or at least say we did it even if we didn’t.
Islam isn’t the enemy, but this kind of Islam is. According to this kind of islam, being buried with pigs makes it impossible to get into heaven.
The fact is these terrorists use their religion against us. So we should use their religion against them. They send idiots to kill us with the promise of 72 virgins. we should make them believe that if they tangle with us, they will go to hell. No virgins for you, you idiots.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:18 amHow do you trade burial at sea?
talk to me Cody.
happyfeet (760ba3) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:22 amBtw, why was he buried so quickly?
because of islam.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/bin-laden-already-buried-at-sea-according-to-islamic-practice/
Apparently in islam you are supposed to bury the body within 24 hours.
*facepalm*
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:27 amLet’s not be too hasty on the potential value or virtues of OBL’s burial at sea.
For example, if the body is in a weighted, water-tight container, the USN can always go back and get it. After all, only the USN would know the GPS, even if no marking device was installed.
Also, it would always be possible to refute a conspiracy theorist later, if necessary.
I also like the anonymous disposal, no tomb etc.
One last point might be that Islamists have to consider that the body was eaten by shellfish.
jim2 (6482d8) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:28 amOf course, that’s way too far for conventional helicopters, but they staged at a Pakistani base. I assume they didn’t say why they were there. My understanding is that one of the helicopters was destroyed, but the men got away safely.
Anyway, you are on the money with Panetta. It’s a bit disturbing to see politics played this way. He was named after this operation was known, and that timing is obvious. It could a long term problem for national security if he really is going to cut DoD to the bone.
This is a really lame trick, but you could be right. It’s important, in my not so perfect opinion, that we convey criticism of a lack of video and photos and letting people analyze the body as a stupid handling of a great success, rather than worries this is a hoax.
For all you know, Osama did have tunnels, but the SEALs somehow collapsed them. Maybe we knew where they led. Maybe this is why it took months to take this place, risking a leak.
If they are really hoping to replay the birther nonsense, by holding evidence that helps them a lot until they have to release it, that’s just sad. I don’t want to assume they will do that, and I expect to see video or photos today.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:29 amYes, this is a good decision. I understand Aaron’s point about the pigs, but that’s just not realistic. It would tick off too many people we need for intel, for one. I’m 100% ok with a completely anonymous non-shrine type burial, though why so soon? Clearly respect for Osama Bin Laden’s religious wishes. That is really disgusting.
Yep. If anything, I hope Obama gets some political benefit from this, just so we don’t have another Clinton failure. You’re right to call this the President’s duty, but sometimes you have to throw in some incentive.
I’m glad your daughter and her fellow cadets are joyous. Of course they are.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:32 amAaron
He paid his price – time to move on – we are a comnpassionate people from a religion of compassion
Jesus says to turn the other cheek
he meant it
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:36 amWhy is it so difficult or people to believe that Governments lie, constantly. OBL
Sprachnessmonster (cebf05) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:37 amOne victory, in a long chain of defeats isn’t going to help Obama any more that it helped Bush One. If the economy is still going south, he’s done for.
Mike Giles (d06ce7) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:40 amMaybe AW will change his mind if you accuse him of anti-islam bigotry and hatred.
JD (306f5d) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:42 amEric
F–k compassion. First, how is it actually incompassionate? It doesn’t really hurt him. It just makes the idiots who follow him think we are hurting him.
Second, this is about setting up the right incentives. They use their warped version of islam against us. We should return the favor. So that WE DESTROY THE INCENTIVE TO MURDER US.
You want to show compassion for bin Laden. I want to show compassion for the innocents who will be killed in the name of their warped faith.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:44 amHe wasn’t buried at sea. But, who cares anyway?
Ethyl Mertz (bb043f) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:48 amI get where you’re coming from, of course. Anyone who uses terrorism and murder deserves whatever we can come up with.
I just wonder about the other effects of that. It’s undiplomatic to use pigs on our fallen foes while saying it’s not about Islam.
Anyway, you’re clearly more focused on remembering the people Osama bin Laden murdered, which is why you’re angry. That’s the bottom line. Forgiveness, from me, can come after they repent. I don’t think you’re a bad Christian for wanting to show terrorists in disgrace.
It just seems like there’s a middle ground between instant burial to accommodate OBL’s wishes and some display of making his corpse unclean.
I guess this is a bit harder of a call than the one to take Osama’s compound. That decision, I think his intern could have made successfully.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:53 amFor informational purposes, he was buried according to Islamic Law:
624. If it is feared that an enemy may dig up the grave and exhume the dead body and amputate its ears or nose or other limbs, it should be lowered into sea, if possible, as stated in the foregoing rule.
625. * The expenses of lowering the dead body into the sea, or making the grave solid on the ground can be deducted from the estate of the deceased, if necessary.
(http://www.al-islam.org/laws/burial.html)
Lori (fde7ab) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:54 amUPDATE: I got a chance to sleep on it and I’m still offended. Let me be clear about why this is so wrong. It’s not the burial at sea — that makes sense, since you don’t want to create a shrine, and the thought of bin Laden getting nibbled to death by fish is a nice image. It’s not dumping the body in the middle of the night — that also makes sense, as there shouldn’t be a ceremony.
What rankles are the things I identified last night. First, it happened before any pictures or video have been released. At least one alleged picture that has circulated is a fake, which reminds us how easy it is to photoshop photographic “proof.” And while I’m sure they took photos and video and will release them at some point — surely they realize they can’t dump the body and release no evidence! — it would have helped quash conspiracy theories to give independent journalists a chance to photograph and videotape the body.
And why wasn’t this simple step taken? That’s the part that is infuriating: apparently because they wanted to rush the burial to conform with “Islamic law.” Well, when it comes to burying Osama bin Laden, Islamic law’s got nothing to do with it. Any Muslim who would be offended that bin Laden was not buried in accordance with Islamic tradition is a Muslim who supports terror. We should not care about offending such people, and fomenting suspicions just to mollify cretins like that strikes me as rank appeasement.
Patterico (c218bd) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:55 amThis administration seems kind bad at avoiding conspiracy theories. It’s like they have good evidence, and then don’t show it, while insisting the people who want it wouldn’t be convinced. Well, just show the evidence anyway.
I am pretty sure Obama’s administration will release photos within a few hours. Hopefully video too. Ideally, I’d like video of Osama before he was killed. I think that we probably had such surveillance. It’s hard to believe any administration would be to incompetent to release it, or play some birther 2.0 game with it.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:59 amWhy the rush? Well there are probably some photos of OBL with the ace of spades card sitting on his shattered forehead. OBL is an insult to the supposed principles of Islam
Simon Jester (423f3b) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:59 amI’ll count ObL being dead as a blessing, and that 0bama only managed to screw things up to the extent of having the body dumped at sea “in accordance with Islamic law” as a somewhat lesser blessing which is still much better than it might have been.
This could have been 0bama’s “Desert One” moment. One of those in my life time was way more than enough.
Rodney G. Graves (f12db5) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:00 amToday is Holocaust remembrance day in Israel.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:09 amYes, Rodney, thank God this wasn’t another Desert One.
Frankly, one of the things Obama inherited from Bush was a terrific military. It was hard for the military to develop these capabilities, and Carter didn’t inherit much in the way of super helicopter missions with super soldiers.
I worry that Obama’s successor will not inherit the same military that Obama got. Isn’t that why Panetta is being bolstered right now? To cut it to the bone?
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:13 amI think the decision to dispose of bin Laden “in accordance with Islamic law” speaks to the kind of people WE are, rather than the kind of person he was.
High road. Can never go wrong walking it.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:20 amMaybe you should try it sometime, Kfap!
∅butthead (e7577d) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:22 amSock off.
∅ (e7577d) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:23 amOkay, off topic….but…
That is freaking hysterical, given the stalkerboi creepy source.
Simon Jester (423f3b) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:24 amAppeasing those who murder us with a level of respect that actually poses a real cost to our cause doesn’t speak to who “we” are. It speaks to how afraid our leader is of standing up to bullies.
When I watched Obama’s speech, I nodded at first as he explained that this wasn’t an attack at Islam. But then he went on and on about it. It seemed like 50% of the speech. He even summoned Bush’s credibility on the topic, in the only major incident I can recall in the last year where Obama spoke nicely of Bush.
No, this isn’t a bright line so much as a call for real leadership. It’s like Gitmo, where a lazy leader can pretend there is some absolute matter of respect or diplomacy that we have to abide by, instead of some hard call, where our interests justify some hassle for the President. Bush knew that, even as Obama bashed him for using Gitmo (it turns out, this is how we found this courier that led us to Osama’s doorstep).
Another example is how Obama used SEALs instead of an airstrike. That’s a hard call. He made the right one, then, but I think there’s a middle ground between absolute deference to Islam, and being completely callous about a corpse.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:28 amwho cares how they buried him. President Obama gave the order and the navy seals got the job done.
charmaine (5500a1) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:32 amAaron
Some people are consumed by hate, we are a compassionate people, we have forgiven our enemies and we should keep on doing that.
The high road IS the only road.
He’s dead he paid his price.
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:35 amI’m going to go with the idea that there are plenty of photos which will be released. I am also going to rest with the knowledge that there are 40 credible and honorable Navy Seals who know exactly what happened even if they are unable to ever say so publicly. If, as has been stated elsewhere, a few of Usama’s family were captured alive in the compound, there is little likelihood that they were living with a “double”.
I doubt if the “burial at sea” was a snap decision, or that the President alone made the decision to do so. Perhaps it is not even true and the government is obfuscating.
I think we now know why Will and Kate postponed their honeymoon, however. Jordan and Petra was one of the suspected secret locations for their wedding trip.
elissa (25897c) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:36 amWhy is it so difficult for people to believe that Governments lie, constantly. OBL has been dead since Dec. of 2001. How inconspicuous can you be tied to a kidney dialysis machine? What ever happened to critical thinking in this country? Now they say “We’re bound to see more terror attacks as retaliation for killing him” And then they’l arrest some mind controlled patsy or use entrapment to bust a group of Tards. And then some Judge will see it and throw it out…quietly. But DHS saved the day..right after they groped your dad at LAX and give your wife ovarian cancer…If our Govt really thought muslims we’re so dangerous they would have put them in camps like they did to the Japanese-Americans in WWll and they would protect our borders. We will all die. Let’s try to show some balls. Man up and face the risk that every day your chance of dying from an allergic reaction is greater than a terrorist action. Then we can use the money we waste killing innocent people to take care of our own people and infrastructure..instead we are creating more hatred. Do some research on De-pleated Uranium munitions. Look at the horrific birth defects we are causing for all the people we are liberating and for our troops. The troops we support by putting them in harms way. Troops that signed up years ago because they needed help with an education because we as the richest nation in the world can’t afford to give them one cause we waste too much money killing people. Hey, we had pizza and keggers to watch all the Faces of Death films.. and I watched Gulf War 1 as religiously as SouthPark…but we have lost the moral high ground and we are getting nothing good in return. Obama is a just another Sock Puppet for the New World Order. He’s dirty enough now to be removed and replaced. Right Socks and Left Socks are interchangeable.. So we need to replace the Puppet and we start with his Master…The Federal Reserve Banking System and the Congress people they own. Dr. Paul has warned us that we cannot solve our problems unless we do. Until then no amount of budget cutting and tax raising will make this work. PzOut
Sprachnessmonster (cebf05) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:38 am‘Cleanup, aisle 12’
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:41 amI see absolutely no evidence for your claim to know OBL died in December of 2001.
Sure, I believed he was dead for years, too, but how do you get the US Navy on board with a conspiracy to pretend to kill OBL?
Oh, you’re a Ron Paul nut. Never mind. No reasoning with you.
EPWJ, I don’t think Osama Bin Laden really paid the price for thousands of murders. Even with his own life, it’s not enough. He never repented. Forgiving an unrepentant killer is an injustice.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:41 amNot sure if that was a smart move or not.
But the guy who shot him should get the MOH.
JohnW (1c4341) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:44 amSprachnessmonster, I have long believed that bin Laden was dead since late 2001 – but I was wrong. And the conspiracy nut stuff is over the top.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:45 amThere are plenty of “high roads” that do not involve disposing of a body and adding fuel to every conceivable Islamacist conspiracy theory and following Islamic burial law. Frankly, kmart wouldn’t know the high road if it came crashing down on his pointy head, or if you could find the high road and the end of a water bong.
JD (85b089) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:46 amI really don’t see the high road issue here at all. Honoring Osama Bin Laden is not taking the high road. There is absolutely nothing good about it. Let’s just hope that these photos and videos are forthcoming, and the potential for a huge conspiracy theory in the middle east is cooled as much as possible. Those who say you can’t prevent some paranoia do not get it. We have to do the best we can to be transparent about this one.
Instant burial at sea is obviously a bad call, no matter who exactly made that call.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:50 amIts part of the pathetic attempt to pander to the sensibilities of extremists who already hate our guts. Its silly. Because meanwhile we have terrorist-loving loons like those found int the PA who parade through the streets with body parts of those they’ve murdered.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:51 amDustin, Eric,
really its all about deterring the next idiot. Its not about the victims, its not about being magnanimous toward osama. its about preventing the next idiot.
For instance, imagine if Bush said he would bury all islamofascist terrorists with pigs in his inauguration way back in Jan, 2001? There is a real chance that if he said that, 9-11 wouldn’t have happened.
And there is a real chance that if we buried Osama with a pig now we will prevent the next 9-11.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:52 amPatterico – my immediate reaction was the same as yours. It would have made sense, eventually, to deny the fascists a shrine. But to so hastily bury him at sea, and then to explain that this was in accordance with Islamic law, that part really grates on the nerves. Obama just can’t seem to stop himself from bowing to our enemies – or giving the respectful nod to their values.
So… are we going to see a new naval tradition? Will sailors begin to drop pork into the sea whenever they traverse that area? I wouldn’t be surprised – and then there will be a YouTube video, military discipline, lawsuits, reprisals, bumper stickers…
Gesundheit (aab7c6) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:55 amAaron
I think that wqhen the Nazi rounded up the random small french village and burned them alive in a barn to “make sure” no one else would take up arms against them – did they make more or less enemies?
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:58 amSPQR
Shooting their leader in the head was alot of pandering…
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:59 amI get it. Also, I don’t think there’s anything immoral about your wish. Terrorists have no right to a respectful burial. In fact, I think honoring OBL with adherence to his religious wishes is really a bad idea.
We just disagree on the facts rather than the morality. I think in the middle east, some are impressionable into paranoia that the USA is bigoted against Muslims and fighting a crusade. Burial with pigs might strike them as particularly vulgar and an effort to bring Islam into the argument in a bad way.
I think perhaps there are other ways to cut these slimeballs down to size. We could take what’s left of his brain and analyze his mental illness. I suspect his brain was not fully developed, due to his sociopathy. We could even take a page from South Park and note that his penis was unusually small. Just treat him as a scientific interesting defective man. that’s how I’d handle it.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:00 amThe last twelve hours have been tough for me. I was out Sunday night visiting some apolitical friends when the word came down that bin Laden was dead, and out of respect for their hospitality, I did not turn the conversation beyond satisfaction that the mastermind of the greatest single act of murder in all of our lifetimes got what was long overdue coming to him.
When I got in my car to go home, I listened to KCBS, the all-news channel in San Francisco, which I already had on the radio on the way; I was listening to the simulcast of 60 Minutes as Lara Logan told her chilling story of barely surviving gang rape by Egyptian men in Tahrir Square. I heard the CBS News announcer — Harley Carnes — as he ran down the details as they were known, talking back and forth with experts whose names nor voices were recognizable to me. Carnes then spoke with Terry McGovern, the daughter of a WTC victim. Ms. McGovern said that the elimination of bin Laden restored her faith in government, quoting drooling Bush-hater Maureen Dowd in the process. Carnes agreed, saying that it seemed for so long that the government was like the Keystone Kops, and that finally they were able to get something accomplished.
My stomach started turning as I felt the story turning political. Then as a D.C. reporter described the celebratory scene outside the White House, Carnes, apropos of nothing, said that President Obama would get a bump up in his approval rating as a result. “Uh, we’ll see about that,” the reporter replied. Carnes doubled down: “Oh, sure he will.” When I got home, I surfed the web on my phone while still in my car to see just how much of a left-wing wacko Harley Carnes was.
I found some brief commentaries that he does for CBS News Radio on his personal website (he’s also a novelist), and was shocked. The topics he tackled: “What a mess Libya has already become.” “This time a government shut-down might be a good thing – because unlike Washington – the people get it, the U.S is broke – we can’t afford this government.” And this one: “It is fair to ask the question now — are you better off today than you were two years ago? And how will the answers be presented to you?” This guy sounded more like a more even-tempered Bill O’Reilly than David Gregory.
I then wondered what was wrong with me — why couldn’t I shut down my media bias calibrator long enough to enjoy the justice, as did Carnes? Honestly, I don’t think it’s my fault. After a lifetime of news addiction and about twenty-two years of recognizing and being able to predict slant (beginning with the character assassination of Dr. Eric Foretich), it’s cut into my brain now. It’s as if I’m on a fishing boat in rough seas, and to remain upright, I lean starboard when the vessel tilts port. If I lose that balancing mechanism, I’ll be sliding all over the decks, flailing all over.
I’ll take the hit now for not being sufficiently appreciative of the Obamastration’s part in getting bin Laden. We all know good and well that it’s going to be used as a bludgeon against Republican candidates in 2012 — the media will trumpet this success as if it is a counterbalance to his economic incompetence and the amorphous folly of the Libyan intervention. Long-term, losing my vigilance for just a second doesn’t feel like it’s worth the risk of reverting back to a being a bleating sheep like so many clueless “independents,” who are mostly people who believe whatever the MSM tells them.
L.N. Smithee (eca0f0) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:02 amWhen do we get to meet the man (or men) who pulled the trigger? I’d like to buy them a beer, in accordance with Islamic law.
Do you actually think the identity of the man who fired the bullet will be made public?
aunursa (a2a019) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:04 amI feel your pain, LN. You said it better than I could, but I know exactly where you’re coming from. Hearing the story turn political for about an hour before Obama’s speech began specifically to take credit away from the efforts preceding his administration… it’s just hard for me to detach from that and enjoy this great occasion on its own.
But it is a great day for America, Bush, the troops, etc. If the price for that is a little sick politics, than I’ll pay.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:06 amAs one indicated by one report the vile one’s death, is great news, BUT that doesn’t mean Al Qaeda is dead. Don’t understand the “buried at sea” portions of reports, why on earth would anyone want to do that to the innocent creatures of the sea, is beyond me.
Brave men of our forces, congratulations on such fine work. Obama, on this I must give you creds, you ordered it done, our people did it.
Zawahiri, you’re next.
One more thing, Pakistan, you should be wiped from the globe..
JP (c4988c) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:06 amYou know Reagan was criticized when he visited a Nazi graveyard festoned with dead SS and said they were victims too. He prayed for them and forgave them.
Lets move on now. The wars for better or worse are winding down, terrorism is on the run, as it should be. Thinking that having post after post slurring their prophet or bashing the entire people based upon a hotdog steet vendors comment or a murder in Holland is going to further defeat terrorism is poor reasoning in my mind.
We can NEVER bring back those who we lost.
As far as bending to sensibilities, I remember a case where a young couple in Oklahoma beat their newborn to death, A jewish Rabbi who had a parishnor serve on the jury volunteered to give the child a christian funeral.
oh well.
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:06 amThe idea that a threat to bury people with a pig may have prevented 9/11 seems like a bit of a stretch.
Should not take much more time for epwj to accuse people of anti-islam bigotry and hatred.
JD (29e1cd) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:07 amI spoke too soon, he was already doing so. SHOCKA
JD (b98cae) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:09 amEricPWJohnson, ah you are back to your usual exaggerations. How droll.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:09 amYou know, it will be critical to see how President Obama handles Pakistan moving forward. This really was a large and rather obvious compound. I don’t mean to say it’s not impressive we found Osama. That is probably one of the hardest intel victories in American history.
But Pakistan is our enemy. We need to make sure they no longer have nuclear weapons, at the very least. The scale of the war on terror seems so vast right now. We can’t succeed like we did in Iraq, in Syria, Libya, Egypt, Iran, and Pakistan, let along Afghanistan. We just can’t.
It was hard to win in Iraq, and I worry we squandered that a bit out of political nonsense. Perhaps the only way forward is to take off the kid gloves with Pakistan, but I don’t really think that would work, either.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:11 amWishful thinking.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:13 amDustin
Btw, there is at least one islamic scholar claiming that burial at sea is a bad thing in islam. not sure if it denies you passage to heaven or not, but its a “sin.” i’ll have more on that later.
So maybe they accidentally followed my wishes.
Eric
I have no idea whether it increased or decreased french resistance. i do know that the extent of resistance is greatly exaggerated to cover up the fact that the french largely rolled over.
But you are talking about inflicting actual suffering, in an evil cause, and comparing it to removing a spiritual incentive (and causing “psychic” pain) in the cause of justice.
Btw, do you deny that 1) the terrorists are often motivated by the belief that they will get 72 virgins in paradise, and 2) that promising to bury them with pigs would harm that promise?
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:14 amBTW, it’s a common misconception that Ronald Reagan claimed the SS were victims of the war, just like the holocaust victims. In reality, he visited a place where 2000 German regular army were buried, and specifically explained how such conventional soldiers were distinguished from the SS, whom Reagan then called among the most heinous people in world history.
Anti American nuts changed what Reagan said completely on its face. It’s clear Reagan was not honoring the SS, and nor should he have.
so to cite Reagan as an example of honoring horrible people, to explain why Obama would, makes no sense. In my opinion.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:16 amYes.
It could take years. But I think it will happen.
Patterico (3cb950) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:16 amDustin, as would be typical of EPWJ’s comments.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:16 amDustin
All these compounds are unmarked, unlisted, property records are scant if at all existant. Qatar’s record keeping is about the accuracy of the turn of the 1900’s and they are the leaders in the Arab world – Pakistan is so backwards that still most of the country doesnt have electricty – its tribal african poor.
Pakistan really isnt even a country – its like the UAE a collection of 4 regions which each have their major city and their armies and police and secret services that losely cooperate with each other.
I spent alot of time consulting with the Pakistinian Engineering Council, these people are mostly westerners of total Indo-Pak origins who view their country as a total mess created by the british 50 years ago to keep the sectarian violence in india to a minimum.
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:17 amHe should have been ground up and sold as pig food, but whatever. As far as the SEALs are concerned, if we knew who they were they’d never have to buy dinner again. Or booze.
Kevin M (298030) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:17 amI agree, but then, he’s motivated by being proactive in stopping monsters.
You’re accidentally looking as though you are motivated by honoring our enemies. As you said, it’s the ‘high road’ to honor Osama Bin Laden. That’s nonsense. You don’t even believe that. You’re just reflexively partisan, and think Obama honored OBL, so you need to find a way to show how that’s OK.
There is no high road in honoring OBL, Hitler, or that kind of person. I’d just treat the carcass like scientific material, of no spiritual reverence.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:19 amDustin
No he was well aware of it Bitburg is predominately a Waffen SS Burial ground they were regular army in elite SS units – Reagan spoke about the difference at length between the Waffen SS and the Death squads and other SS and gestapo units
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:20 amBut this one had 3 story walls, and was built near a lot of military assets, in a country that has so much strike they’d have to have noticed it.
It has no internet or phone access. Red flags waving.
Anyway, I know Pakis who love our country. I don’t want to generalize… frankly, the people who would help OBL build this compound are their enemies. But the scope of our war on terror seems huge, and impossible with current tactics, doesn’t it?
Obama can’t just dismiss this issue.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:22 amNo, he specifically claimed the regular army were victims, and the SS were heinous. This was not a predominate SS burial. Out of 2000, I think 50 were SS, and Reagen was specifically referencing regular military in his comments. As I said, he called the SS among the most heinous in world history during that speech.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:23 amKman
Okay, stalkerboi, I will pose the same 2 questions:
> Btw, do you deny that 1) the terrorists are often motivated by the belief that they will get 72 virgins in paradise, and 2) that promising to bury them with pigs would harm that promise?
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:23 amBitburg wasnt the only gravesite he visited – but the point is – as everyone likes to try and deflect with personal attacks and so on because of an inability to formulate a rational thought here is this
Reagan can forgive – showed the world we are a forgiving country
We threw his body into the sea – no million person funeral – no hostage taking to demand the return of the body – he’s gone
As it should be
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:24 amThere is no chance that this was faked, as all it would take is a Nyah Nyah Nyah video to sink the claim.
And I am sure that we kept some tissue samples, perhaps a “pound of flesh” for the Obama presidential library.
Kevin M (298030) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:25 amIf Reagan didn’t know some would claim they were SS, and he condemned the SS and claimed the non SS were not as bad as the SS, was he somehow honoring the SS?
Of course not. If you want to say the SS were victims of WWII, by all means, make your case. Reagen did not make such a case just because some happened to be in the ground when he intended to honor non-SS rather specifically.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:26 amThank you Dustin for a discussion without personal attacks on this emotional subject
Enjoyed it as always
Too bad we are on max alert here kinda takes the fun out of the bastard being dead
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:26 amSomeone must have seen him, in the years he stayed their, did they ever inform the authorities, or were they in on the deal as well.
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:26 amI grant this much. I have no problem with a sea burial. I think the rush to do so is stupid. It appears motivated by sensitivity to OBL’s religious wishes. That’s wrong.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:27 amYeah, this is fair, EPWJ. This is a shame we can avoid.
Let’s just be happy this SOB met justice, finally. The USA taught the world that we can get anybody, no matter how hard they try to hide, no matter how long it takes, and I’m very happy about that.
Clearly, you hate these guys too. Everyone should be able to come together and cheer this.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:29 amNo, I think it’s insane that he gives a damn about burying him in accord with Islamic law–after telling us for years he’s not the true Islam.
We need pictures. A whole new conspiracy theory is going to start now without them.
IMO, Obama did this to separate himself from Bush. He just can’t help himself. Bush released pictures; Obama did not. Obama is still a PC jerk, although I give him credit for ordering the raid at all.
Patricia (f8db02) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:30 amKilling him was smart. Burying him at sea was genius. Conforming to Islamic practice was brilliant – it may have a chance of cutting through muslim propaganda and misinformation, which may be considered one of our primary opponents.
I think it was well done and I could care less about the press. This is war.
Amphipolis (b120ce) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:30 amYou are aware of the fact that the FBI does not list OBL for any connection with 911. And it will take but a minute or two to locate the Cheney interview where he admits that. I can point you to a photo of OBL with Zbigniew Brzezinsk..but then you might not know who that is and what Zbigniew Brzezinsk has written in his books about American Imperialism. Instead you show the mark of someone who attacks the messenger because you lack in facts. Be angry at your slave masters who have been lying to us all. I get nothing for telling you this. I just like practicing ranting online. If I did it with a bullhorn..hint hint..I would have no social life. There is only room in the world for one of those..some might say none. I only try to see if people are truly open minded enough to be the change they seek. Liberty, Prosperity, and peace. Aren’t these the things all Americans want? Or do we want to bail out banks laundering drug money from opium grown in Afghanistan guarded by our troops sold on our streets and then used by people that get locked up in prisons owned by corporations in a free country with the largest population of inmates in the world. You are right. I’m a nut for wanting better for our people. I don’t have kids and I have lived very fast. I won’t be around for long..but what we leave your children matters to me because it would be wrong not to care. Not because I believe that life is a game show with prizes for being right. Thank for reading my rants…even if they do not widen your POV..your freedom to say and think as you choose is a right I will defend with my life even if I disagree. And I believe that is an American moral high ground worth fighting for.
Sprachnessmonster (cebf05) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:33 amHonestly, I would have expected him to order some kind of air or missile strike. It would be very hard for me to order those few Navy SEALs to get out there, hundreds of miles from backup, to storm a well defended compound. Looking at it from Google Maps, it looks very well defended. Open fields, yet difficult to enter. Plenty of warning for most attacks, and it just seems like it would be extremely difficult to pull off without losses.
And yet Obama made that hard call, and it worked out, and he deserves credit. That doesn’t keep Iran from nukes, or deal with Syria, and I have no idea what he’s thinking with proving to the world he really got this SOB, but at least he got him.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:34 amI don’t care what Obama does he will never get credit for nothing, You people are the most prejudice people I have ever seem. You all could be living under the regime of Gardaffi, the late Idi Amin and all the other Killers of the world. Bush is no Saint He killed not only thousand of U.S. soldiers, he killed thousands of Iraqes. and . Another thing President Clinton was the one who started the trail to get Osama Bin Laden, but he refused the helped because he was too busy seeling us out to China. Another thing everyone think that Reagan was such a good President, yet he was involved in the Contra Scandal which cause Oliver North to be his escape goat. You guys need to wait to see the reason for why things were done like it was. Maybe they are claiming the body is buried at sea so no one can try and take it. who knows. You all need to stop criticizing this man for every thing he does, and repsect him as our President because you could have a Hitler or Stalin as your Commande in Chief. You guys are so ungrateful and we as a people will never be able to come together as a nation because you keep badgering our goverment. Obama didn’t creat this problem Bush did, and no I mean one talked about the big deficit he left behind nor all the missing money he took with him on his exit. If I had it to do I would have brought Bush up for War crimes, because he lie through his teeth , Rumsfeld and Cheney, should have been held accountable for the killing of the American People and the Iragi people. and for that upon his death his pains will be severe. God will see to that. Bush know he was wrong thats why he admitted his wrong on his book signing travels. People please get it right Obama is the problem, and further more if you put who was the first Black president you will find that Obama is not . he is the first black President under the Constitution, but John Hanson was the first black President of the U.S. before George Washington. and as always a race of people tried to destroyed those facts. Stop, wait, get facts before you start judging the reasons why Osama is at sea, I can tell you that there will be retaliation for this so the victory party may be short lived
sayiam (734a90) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:34 amDustin
Reagan visted three grave sites all SS – at Bitburg he made it a state visit and layed a wreath in the name of the american people
Also – the Wehrmacht rounded up the Jews not the SS. So there really isnt a difference except in Hollywood.
But the point is that we forgive our enemies – however vile they maybe
But to the others here:
The Japanese bayoneted thousands, millions of people – killed the staff of Standard oil in Manila including their wives and children when the refinery caught fire. The Civilians at Guam were never accounted for nor were many of the thousands of Americans living in the ‘Pines
Yet we cant get enough of their stuff and they have never apologized nor recognized their surrender.
Open a Japanese history book, MacArthur is a war criminal, Tojo is a patriot
Bin Laden is dead, we are not going to kill the other 1.2 billion so some can smack their lips in some wierd satisfaction
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:35 amI deny the first one. They are motivated by their hatred of our foreign policy, and what they see as meddling in their affairs. The “72 virgins in paradise” is largely an overblown Western myth, and doesn’t even have basis in the Quran.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:35 amShakes fist!!!!!!!
You idiot. Be happy we just got someone who actually pulled off a conspiracy worthy of your imagination. OBL planned to murder thousands of us, tried multiple times, and pulled off many attacks with his conspirators.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:36 amHey, maybe they buried him at sea in the Bay of Pigs?
Eirik (a8dca1) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:38 amPatterico, I have to agree with your outrage that our CIC made such a stupid decision to “honor” ObL with an Islamic burial.
You are right, there are two Muslim responses to this news: 1) that ObL was not a “true” Muslim, consequently he did not deserve a “true” Islamic burial and 2) the feel he should be respected as a Muslin. Group #2 need to get the hell out of the U.S. TODAY.
The news just reported that the administration is trying to decide whether to show the photographs of a dead ObL because they don’t want the radicals to use the photos as propaganda. WTF? Who cares? Within an hour of announcing ObL’s death, the State Department issued “global” travel warnings for ALL U.S. citizens and heightened terror alerts for all Western nations. Revenge is now #1 on AQ’s list of priorities.
Why is this administration bending over backwards to not tick off Muslims? Those that would be pissed over the release of the photos are the would-be supporters of ObL and those who did not support him do not view ObL as a true Muslim.
When I learned that it was our Navy SEALs that took that piece of human trash out, my first thought went to Marcus Luttrell and his fallen brothers. May they now rest in peace.
retire05 (2d538e) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:38 amZOMFGWTFBBQ. Flypaper for crazy.
JD (109425) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:38 amBitburg is predominately a Waffen SS Burial ground they were regular army in elite SS units.
False. On two counts. EPWJ exaggerates the number of SS graves at the cemetary outside Bitburg, and misstates the status of SS with respect to regular German army in WWII.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:40 amEPWJ, why is it that you perennially insist on making up stuff?
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:41 amI guess the discussion of releasing the photos is being had (see Hotair).
And Dustin, apparently Obama nixed a missile raid because there would be no proof of death and too many innocents would have been killed.
Patricia (f8db02) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:41 amJD
So was shooting him in the head pandering or not?
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:42 amYes, it’s odd that we have somehow forgotten the Japanese actions, while remembering the German atrocities. I wish the Holocaust memorials and remembrance would do a lot more to remember the Chinese and Korean holocausts.
I think it’s because we nuked Japan. Regardless, you have a point. And really, I’m happy we’ve moved on with regard to Japan. They are good friends, thanks to this. I don’t know if you’re right about Japanese revisionism. I suspect there isn’t enough awareness of what Japan did to justify our need to stop them at any price.
But maybe it’s not the best day to claw open that scab. America (with friends) beat Japan and Germany, and we again won another battle against actual evil.
Kman’s citing how we’re meddling in ‘their affairs’ to explain terrorism is just plain sick.
BTW, Muhammad is quoted as having specifically claimed the least reward for his martyrs would be some kind of ruby palace with tens of thousands of servants and 72 virgins. Sexual pleasures being part of martyrdom has been a mainstream concept of Islam for centuries, Kman.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:43 amKman, you’re an idiot for buying into the meme that it is our “foreign policy” that makes radical Islam hate us. Was it the foreign policy of the Austrians that caused the Muslim hordes to march against Vienna? Was it our foreign policy that cause the Barbary Coast pirates to pillage our ships at sea?
retire05 (2d538e) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:45 amHe made a better call than I would have. You won’t hear me say that often. I would have accepted substantial collateral damage (not sure why any innocent people would have been in that building). I’d have hoped something could be scraped off a wall to prove it was OBL.
Of course, the advantage of Obama’s braver strategy is that we now have proof to show the world. So that’s why I am reasonably sure he’ll show it to them (I do not personally doubt that this happened).
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:45 amBitburg is an official German military gravesite – it was the site where several of the SS units were trained and raised – the Waffen SS units
In the German Military district tradition – graves are by units wherever possible
Most of those soldiers also were not VICTIMS of the war they dies later and were buried with their comrades
And honestly the Wehrmacht were just as bad as the SS.
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:47 amIdeally: “OBL was buried at sea, time of internment – 0600, 0610; 0624; 0639;0648; 0655; 0704; etc. OBL is now at piece(s).”
Or perhaps we should have burned his body in public and hung it on a bridge, no no – on the twin towers site. or cut off the head while he was alive – and tell the world, “we would not have even thought of this until the islamo-terrorists did it – …..”
Californio (8c07e1) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:49 amI personally don’t derive joy
That’s Glenn Greenwald, being an idiot. Trying that hard to be pure must be joyless, I admit.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:49 amShoulda at least kept the head, to stick on a spike outside GZ. Yeah, it’s barbaric. What’s your point?
Bigfoot (8096f2) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:51 amBut SPQR in you attempt to deflect your total lack of an argument
Burying someone who didnt deserve it is an tradition that we forgive our enemies. We are a forgiving country.
I think he made the right call, this will go far in the Arab world and BUSH and REAGAN would have done the same.
Hate’s easy, forgiveness isnt.
Look I’ve been in meetings where I have to listen to 3 or 4 hours of anti American Bullsh#t from these people, this is something I can cut that fuc%ing 4 hour tirade short
Hey, I’m taking it, when you guys get an international contract with native vendors – let me know how it goes – okay?
I mean its not like teaching JC or selling hoops in concrete – but I try 🙂
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:52 amEPWJ, I imagine Reagan didn’t know exactly who was buried there. He was trying to say something nice about people who died in WWII and specifically distinguished them from the SS. If some were SS, or somehow they were as bad as SS, that’s a different matter from what Reagan’s message was.
The left went crazy taking his words out of context. Purely, specifically out of context. So badly out of context that they are completely contradicted by the context. Hell, for all I know, they also lied about who was buried there, but it’s clear Reagan didn’t think he was talking about SS.
This is the kind of thing that is much harder to pull off in 2011. Every reporter has to worry that their lies will be torn apart. It’s a good thing, but Reagan somehow managed to hold his own in a more hostile press environment.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:53 amWhen do we go after Pakistan for protecting him?
I’m serious. There should be consequences.
Amphipolis (b120ce) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:53 amCould some non-idiot explain epwj’s bibble babble about pandering?
JD (d48c3b) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:55 amI think this is a good point. At the very least, I imagine defacing his body would lead to a lot of tirades. We shouldn’t have to give a crap about the people who would be offended, but actually, I would be a little offended if they buried an abortion bomber with some kind of sacrilege to Christianity. I would think they shouldn’t make it about Christianity at all.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:55 amDustin, EPWJ is making up crap about Reagan’s Bitburg visit to make a lame point. And now he’s wandering around as he usually does trying to pretend he knows what he’s talking about when he doesn’t.
Similarly, Kman feeds us the horse manure about how its all our foreign policy. Uh, no. Its their foreign policy and their bigotry that causes the hatred. We are not going to go and return Spain to moslem rule, even though that was among bin Laden’s grievances.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:57 amObama has raped America far more viciously than bin Laden ever dreamed of in his wildest most rapey rapey dreams what he dreamed while he was sleeping soundly in the cuddly cuddly bosom of Pawkeestahn all these years I think
happyfeet (760ba3) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:58 amJD, I made a point about how purporting an “islamic” burial was pandering. So EPWJ does his usual non sequitur act with asking if shooting bin Laden was “pandering”. Its the incoherence of EPWJ as usual. He was trying to build up some sort of distraction from his having put his foot in his mouth again, pretending to be an expert in stuff he’s clueless about.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:59 amKman
> I deny the first one. They are motivated by their hatred of our foreign policy, and what they see as meddling in their affairs. The “72 virgins in paradise” is largely an overblown Western myth, and doesn’t even have basis in the Quran.
well, then your opinion at least has logic. but you are wrong. that is what they believe. they all believed it, they all talk about it. They have no rationality, they are just morons who think they will get virgins in paradise.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:02 amDustin, SPQR: don’t intentionally misquote me. I’m giving THEIR reasons — what terrorists say among themselves — for why they do what they do. Anyone who thinks they attack so they can get 72 virgins isn’t very well informed.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:02 amObama is not the problem, Obama is trying to help us and he is trying to listen to the American people. he asked for help from the Republicans when he first came into office and they wished he fail, they turn their backs on this man. and still to this day they are doing the same thing. But the beauty in all of this, Obama continue on through their criticism. He is a fresh of breath air and I think his push to get this man was well orchestrated , and he should be credit for it,not Bush because it was not on Bush Regime. We need to learn to be more loving toward this man. I believe if you talk to him and plant a seed in his head about something you may want to see happen. I think he is willing to see what he can do. As an American I want only the best for our country, but lets do it with dignity, and let this man do his job. I know he would never have soldiers harm or kill us because we rose up against his regime like so many other country. Think about it. Great Job Obama!!!
sayiam (734a90) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:02 amSPQR
No you were the one who made the statement that we were pandering
Please explain how pandering is by shooting someone in the head?
Really – I’d like to think you were going somewhere with that
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:04 amLOL. I forgot about that one. What a stupid demand. There was never any sense in trying to see the Islamofascist side of things. Thanks, SPQR, for the particularly helpful illustration of that, not that we’re lacking endless examples of their senselessness.
Osama was a pathetic coward to the very end, wasn’t he?
I overestimated him. I thought he would defiantly show videos or hide with his comrades in the caves. I didn’t realize he was hiding in his resort compound, with every ability to help his stupid cause, but no courage to keep it up. In no way was he ever brave enough to risk himself for his cause.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:05 amThank you, SPQR. Figured it was just more of his nonsense.
JD (306f5d) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:06 amBut Like I said – I remember those million person martyrs funerals in Tehran and Syria with the caskets being passed until they disintigrated and the films of it are being used for decades to show scared poor starving teenagers that millions are with them just strap on and do your duty.
Bin Laden, probably getting eaten by the jewfish:
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:08 amYeah, we didn’t.
You lied about Islam’s hadith regarding a martyr’s afterlife, and then linked a typical BS discussion of how they are motivated by American policies.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:08 amCalling them names, like “morons”, might make you feel good, but that doesn’t pass as a sufficient, or even true, analysis of our enemies and their motivations.
It’s not about the virgins (which, by the way, the Quran says you get when you die even if you’re not a martyr). To say it is about the virgins is too simplistic, too pat. And ultimately wrong.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:11 amAnd Kman’s claptrap is so typical.
It’s always all about Americans. No chance this is about these independent men with the full range of potential for compassion, reason, love. They take our lives, and we then note how they make an excuse out our policies.
Kman shows this even more forcefully when he said we should ‘take the high road’ with honoring Osama Bin Laden. It’s all about us.
But that little detail about their martyr doctrine? Oh, that’s just a myth. In fact, Kman claims that also all about us! We did that!
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:12 amKman
yeah, since 9-11 dirty socialists like you have tried to ask “why they hate us?” asserting that the terrorists hate us… for pretty much all the reasons you don’t like this country.
Here’s a hint, buddy, they want to establish religious tyranny over the planet and kill a whole bunch of jews. and they are convinced that if they kill innocents in the cause they will go to heaven. you have to be willfully blind not to know that.
But what you really want to do is freeload on their terrorism, to use their violence to achieve your social justice. thankfully most americans have rejected that approach.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:12 amsayiam…you are so close to getting the whole picture. Bush was a rat bastard…the Right Sock Puppet..Obama is simply the Left Sock Puppet. They all work for the same people… And both sides of every war from the late 1700’s on have been financed by the same bankers. Bush was white..he
Sprachnessmonster (cebf05) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:13 amf**cked things up bad. Clinton was white and sold our nuke secrets to the Chinese and gave them part of Long Beach Harbor for campaign cash. Got rid of the Glass Steagall act which we have not even begun to feel the full effects of yet. And raided Social Security to balance the budget like every President since Johnson who was another evil white a hole. Maybe Obama is not black enough. Or maybe Goldman Sachs and BP who contributed to both sides in 2008 are pulling the strings. Imagine that. Maybe that is why bankers get bonuses instead of jail time. And that is why we will not get the health care we want and why we are always at war. why we torture people and why we pay or war by stealing money from you through inflation. At the beginning o last month gold I bought at 1420 an ounce is now worth 1560 an ounce. That means the dollar went down 10 percent in one month! Gold has doubled in two years. That means they stole half of your money to pay for wars that a 100% tax rate couldn’t cover and you would not stand for. Wake up sheeple before you get sheered…or worse.
People searched the websites, and you will find that he really was not honor because he was buried at sea, thats not what Islamic standard burial is. Another thing lets wait for more answers, because I believe that if Obama ask the body to be pull from the sea. I think it can be retrieved. Be Patient people. This is a good thing about Osama, but lets understand something this is not over by a long shot, and we must stay watchful because America has awoken Osama’s Sleepers
sayiam (734a90) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:13 amYou clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Yes, you repeat the lefty talking points of blaming us, and you even are so delusional you pretend their major motivation is just a myth we created.
It’s all about US, in your little ethnocentric world. You wouldn’t know Middle Eastern culture, or the evil that infects it, but I know all about it. These terrorists are responsible for their own evil. If has absolutely nothing to do with America. It’s not our fault. They made a choice.
To pretend they aren’t preached to about 72 virgins is pretty shocking ignorance on your part. That’s been a major theme for almost 500 years now.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:16 amOK, this guy has to be a fake.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:17 amSprachnessmonster and sayiam are funny!
Paulestinians — gotta love ’em.
Icy Texan (fc3a28) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:17 amSamiam is funny. Kmart is typical, and epwj is the same as always.
JD (b4853c) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:25 amOkay. I’ll bite. What are the reasons that I supposedly hate this country — reasons that I share with islamic terrorists?
Oh, you mean how I want to put religion in the public square and back in government?
No, no wait.
That’s what you guys (and the Islamic fundies) have in common.
Maybe it’s because I share a strong anti-gay stance with the Islamic fundies.
Nope. Wait. My bad.
That’s you guys again.
Seriously, AW. It’s pretty lame to attack my patriotism without backing it up.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:26 amShorter Kman:
we must take the high road, which I define as honoring the corpse of a mass murderer. that shows how great “WE” are.
Let me link a terrorist’s bashing of the USA, pointing out how it’s all our fault. Let me then link a list of how we have so many misconceptions about terrorists, who are actually just poor people who suffer from the US hegemony. Also, that stuff about Islamic motivation for violence… that’s just myths from America.
It’s all about us. But don’t you dare hold me responsible for linking terrorist propaganda as fact, or believing nonsense, or disputing the truth out of anti american ignorance. I’m taking the “high road”.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:28 amKmart is now in full-on make shlt up mode. Has anyone ever seen kmart and epwj in the same room?
JD (b4853c) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:31 amWhat? What nonsense.
You’re comparing us to murderers like OBL because of your gay marriage stance?
And then you call it a low blow to question your patriotism? You specifically lied in this thread, taking a major motivation for martyrdom and claiming it was a western made myth. You linked KSM’s argument to bolster your point. Who does that?
It’s ridiculous. You are arguing that honoring Osama Bin Laden is taking the “high road”.
Is shilling for Obama really that important?
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:32 amI think that would be ‘a crossing the streams’ moment, that unravel the whole space time continuum.
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:34 amEPWJ – Your claims about Reagan’s Bitburg visit are nonsense. Once the U.S. found out in the months leading up to the state visit to the cemetary with Helmut Kohl that there were 49 members of the SS buried there, they attempted to back out. It almost led to a diplomatic crisis.
From Reagan’s speech:
“These [SS troops] were the villains, as we know, that conducted the persecutions and all. But there are 2,000 graves there, and most of those, the average age is about 18. I think that there’s nothing wrong with visiting that cemetery where those young men are victims of Nazism also, even though they were fighting in the German uniform, drafted into service to carry out the hateful wishes of the Nazis. They were victims, just as surely as the victims in the concentration camps”[
How many German military cemeteries of that generation do you believe do not hold members of the SS?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:34 amIt really seems like there’s no reason why this has to be political.
What fundamental difference in politics is even highlighted by Obama’s righteous call to strike OBL? It’s a unilateral strike, etc. But that would be more political if Obama’s opponents were antiwar (like Obama was).
It’s pretty lame to see it politicized, but now we have Kman telling me I’m like Osama Bin Laden because of gay marriage (which I don’t even care about in the first place, but he assumes I’m anti gay because I’m a Republican).
These guys have no idea how much better they and this country would be if they could just be magnanimous. Frankly, I think Obama blew it, too. His ‘me me me’ speech will never be considered great, but if it had been thoughtful of this moment, I think it could have been. We’ve had to make a lot of tough calls which divided America, such as the call with Gitmo, and that yielded justice. It took Obama’s say so in 2011, and Bush’s hard choices in 2007. It shows something great about this country that we succeeded because we didn’t give up.
Instead, all I see from the left are comments about honoring Osama with PC grace, wishes we had a trial, and bashing the right for not being deferential, as though they ever showed Bush any deference when he succeeded. It’s completely insincere.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:42 amDo people actually think muslims attack us because we are rich and free…since they are rising up all over the mid east to become free and have enough money to eat. So we impoverish ourselves and give up the very rights our troops fight for. Why..so muslims won’t attack us anymore because we are not rich or free anymore. Maybe we should hose all the virgins before they die so there won’t be any payoff for jihadists when they get to heaven…is it wrong to like that idea?…I gotta go..need to figure out a way to sell that idea. L8
Sprachnessmonster (cebf05) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:44 amH/t Spiny
JD (b4853c) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:47 amHas anyone ever seen kmart and epwj in the same room?
— All too often, JD. They’re probably planning a joint pilgrimage to Iran to do a head count on all of the Joos living free and openly over there.
Icy Texan (fc3a28) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:47 amIrony, thy name is “Dustin at #177”.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:47 amKmart is making up positions and attributing them to people here, based on nothing, complete fabrications, then accuses others of politicizing something. Dishonest little cowardly Poofter, you are, kmart.
JD (b4853c) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:49 amIt’s just so sick, Kman. Sometimes you need to take a second and think about being a little more decent. Whining about your patriotism while comparing good people to bad people over some irrelevant debate we aren’t even having right now is just cheap and desperate.
This doesn’t hurt me. It hurts you. Why do that to yourself?
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:50 amWhat campaign promise did Obama break?
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:51 amI was responding to A.W. at #164. Complain to him.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:53 amYou sir are a fool! This man is dead there is no need to display his body for the world to see, some might find that offensive. The mission was acheived and as an american I am satisfied.
Ben Brown (e6fdb5) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:53 amKmart is just randomly linking things now. That was to an article about Afghanistan.
JD (b4853c) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:57 amOffensive, sure. They don’t have to look at the body. Frankly, I usually have a hard time looking at that kind of thing, too.
But this is matter of national security. We have to show the world, many of which are paranoid about America making something like this up, that we really got him. It is a well known facet of these kills that we have to show proof.
Now, as an American, you should be satisfied. Obama did his job for you and me, and we owe him credit. But this isn’t just about Americans. We know we can trust our Navy and others in government enough that such a conspiracy to lie about this is ridiculous. But does the average young man in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia know that? No, they really will believe we made this up, and that it’s odd we can’t produce a body and won’t product his picture. we show the man in the face, and we are too squeamish to prove it?
Obama ordered great men to do the right thing, and I want him to maximize that. This is not some silly attempt to ankle bite at this triumph.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:57 amJust so we are clear, #171 @ 9:26 AM is the comment where kmart just started making things up, attributing positions to us that we do no have, and comparing us to Islamic fundamentalists. It is a common, yet incredibly disingenuous leftist tactic. One they never tire of.
JD (b4853c) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:59 amOnce in a while, I’ll get in an argument with Kman, and long after it’s well proven he’s wrong about something, he takes on this obviously childish effort to have the last word. He won’t give up until things are so messy with all the other accusations and comments he’s shoved in the thread.
He specifically claimed the 72 virgin motivation was a myth from the west. He relied on horrible evil to back that up, and it was easy to prove he was wrong. Now he is so desperate to have the last word anyway.
Why can’t we just do away with that, this one time? Kman, who cares that you’re clueless about Islam or world affairs? You usually don’t even know much about your claimed profession. Just celebrate that the USA beat pure evil. Good for us!
Don’t make another mess by parroting and linking anti american nonsense, or making this about gay marriage (sighhhhhhhhhh).
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:01 amJust so we’re clear, Osama ordered the operation, where men and women, had to chose between burning
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:02 amor axfixiating and the choice in the previous pic,
of the falling man, hurtling from the towers
Kman
> Oh, you mean how I want to put religion in the public square and back in government?
Except that is just it. When it comes to your social justice, you believe we ought to appease them. but the moment that it requires you to give up something you care about, suddenly you want to pretend you want to stand up to them.
So you socialists go and argue that the terrorists are motivated by poverty, for instance, and our support for [Israel], and our support for dictators (while opposing any effort to take down [those] dictators), you are all for giving in to their demands. But if we point out that by that logic you need to oppose gay marriage, too, suddenly you think we must never give in. Its transparent how you are using the enemy’s killings for your ridiculous political ends.
> It’s pretty lame to attack my patriotism
Lol its always hilarious when liberals get defensive about their patriotism. IMAO once defined a liberal saying their patriotism is being attacked as being when you give facts and logic that makes them question their own patriotism. Case in point, you.
> What campaign promise did Obama break?
Closing gitmo, for one.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:04 amyeah, Narciso. Let’s not forget that. Osama didn’t give a crap if the people he murdered were republicans or democrats, or whether they were pro or con gay marriage or any other political issue.
He didn’t even care if they were muslim or not. He was pure evil, and we can all be happy he met justice. Barack Obama’s administration didn’t quit searching for him. Just because I have a lot of gripes about his policies doesn’t mean this one little decision is partisan.
There is absolutely no partisan issue at play here. Not one Republican, aside from Ron Paul fanatics, thinks we shouldn’t have gone after OBL. We’re all on the same side, except the anti americans.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:06 amAccording to the left Bush did nothing to stop Osama Bin Laden but mind you back then the left were saying killing Osama Bin Laden is just vengeance gone awry so I thank those dhimmis for kneecapping bush into not doing a damn thing well he did Interrogate KSM but that was a war crime back then.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:18 amPersonally, I’m happy that Dick Cheney’s death squads came through for America.
America, f*ck yeah!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:18 amSo how does the left feel about Obama continuing bush’s wars?
Ironically they are just giddy.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:19 amHave you scheduled the knee surgery yet?
No way those joints can jerk this hard this often and remain intact.
Larry Reilly (0e1b2d) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:21 amI do? And you know this because….?
Oooooh, right. You just make things up.
Hahahaha! WTF?
(1) But you haven’t given any facts to support your contention that I supposedly hate my country for the same reason as the terrorists. Apparently, you think ad homs are “facts”, when in actuality, they are factual fallacies.
(2) And obviously I don’t question my own patriotism. Oh, in your MIND, perhaps I do.
Oh, dear. You’re having a hard time following this thread. What campaign promises did Obama break that lead to the killing of bin Laden?
Taking the emphasis off of Iraq and re-focusing on Afghanistan WAS an Obama campaign promise — one that he DIDN’T break. Here is what Obama said:
— Second presidential debate: foreign policy, Oct. 7, 2008
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:21 amSTFU Kman i’am sick and tired of bush being accused of war crimes for even thinking about going after terrorists. But Obama kills a terrorist and you say not a damn thing because your a hypocrite.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:22 amLarry reillytard can you please go tell the code pinkos we killed an innocent downtrodden muslim or is that ok when a democrap does it.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:24 amI eagerly await the next time kmart leaves an honest, not disingenuous, not mendoucheous comment.
JD (822109) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:28 ambin Laden world champion.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:29 amI just want to remind everyone that Larry Reilly claims to be a JournoList.
JD (109425) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:30 amKman, you seem to want to ignore that Obama spent months rethinking whether or not he wanted to “refocus” on Afghanistan and ended up cutting the commitment level in Afghanistan from what had earlier been agreed to.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:30 amSo
A democrap killing Osama=Good
But if Bush killed Osama?=War crimes
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:31 amMeanwhile, reporting is that bin Laden was found because of interrogations at Gitmo, which Obama wanted to close but only failed to do so because of his own lack of leadership.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:32 amI guess we have to get used to leftists who parroted anti american nonsense insisting they are war hawks now.
Why, how dare you question Kman’s patriotism! But if he wants to compare gay marriage arguments to OBL’s philosophy, that’s totally OK.
Because he’s small.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:32 amYou bloodthirsty warmongering teabaggerz should be happy for America and proud of Obama but you are not because of racisms.
JD (d56362) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:37 amYes but the left won’t thank Bush for interrogating KSM which lead to Bin Laden getting killed because that is a hitlerian war crime.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:37 am“we must take the high road”
Must we?
When it comes to guys like Bin Laden, I’d rather take the low road.
If it was up to me, Bin Laden’s corpse would’ve been displayed, with an apple in its mouth, and then sold to a carnival sideshow, so it could be displayed some more.
Disrespecting dead Islamo-scum will rattle the rest, and we ought to be mind-fucking them every chance we get.
Dave Surls (3406b9) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:38 amI wonder if Kman thinks as did Patty Murray, that muslims loved Osama because he built schools and day care centers.
Have Blue (854a6e) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:39 amYou should hate Republicans because they oppose schools and daycare centers.
SPQR, that hide and seek pic is hilarious.
Honestly, I don’t feel like running around ankle biting Obama for how he politicized national security. This is a good day, Kman. Stop comparing people to terrorists and bashing America.
And yes, you bashed us. You claimed their real motivation was just a western invented myth, and then started linking nonsense about how they are really mad because of our sins. That is unpatriotic.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:40 amBuried at sea. I think that means chucked out of the back of a C-130 somewhere over the Indian ocean.
Rip VanBullwinkle (e0845d) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:41 am“That’s Glenn Greenwald, being an idiot.”
Professional bleeding heart. With all the heart’s blood this guy has lost, weeping over dead terrorists, it’s a miracle he wasn’t bled out years ago.
Dave Surls (3406b9) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:42 am“First of all, I think I speak for many Americans when I say: I don’t give a rat’s ass what Islamic law tells us should happen to bin Laden’s body. Either bin Laden carried out Islam faithfully, in which case it is an evil religion, or (as I believe) he distorted Islam to make it into a religion that calls for mass murder of innocents”
He’s still a muslim. So are people who are his victims. Regardless, if Islamic law provides a way for us to conveniently deal with this and avoid a wingnut spectacle, it seems like a good idea.
gator (a64e83) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:44 amSo, Gator, if we do not follow Islamic law with Osama Bin Laden’s body, that’s a “wingnut spectacle”?
In what way is that? Isn’t the only spectacle that we already got rid of the body and are debating whether to show any evidence that we actually got Osama? This has nothing to do with ‘wingnuts’, and everything to do with appeasement.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:47 amKman –
Obama prosecuting Navy SEALS for slapping a terrorist based on the terrorist’s word = good
Obama praising Navy SEALS for assassinating terrorist = National press conference
Disconnect. WTF?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:49 amI find it hard to think that “gator” comes in good faith. Claiming a wingnut spectacle is kind of a giveaway.
JD (d48c3b) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:50 am“So, Gator, if we do not follow Islamic law with Osama Bin Laden’s body, that’s a “wingnut spectacle”?”
No but it might lead to one.
gator (a64e83) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:51 am“He’s still a muslim. So are people who are his victims.”
gator – Let’s have a muslim spectacle!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:51 amGlenn Greenwald is a jew hater……….there I said it.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:52 amgator – It’s all about teh OUTREACH! Winning The Future, baby.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:53 amSo you’re worried that Barack Obama would conduct a wingnut spectacle. Or that the military would just have this wingnut spectacle if Obama didn’t quickly diffuse this situation somehow, in this case, by getting rid of the corpse before it’s wingnutted.
I don’t even know what you mean by ‘wingnut spectacle’. Clearly you are trying to politicize this, but are not coming up with something that isn’t pretty damn near impossible.
President Obama had more of a range of options than utter appeasement and honor of OBL’s wishes, and this ‘wingnut spectacle’. Therefore, it is legitimate to criticize. You seem awfully paranoid about the US Military’s discipline level. Obviously they are the people you’re talking about conducting this spectacle.
Regardless, this issue becomes less important if Obama simply shows photographs that convince the world. I don’t know why that hasn’t happened yet, but hanging onto the corpse until it’s worked out would be the best approach. This is important enough to override both Osama Bin Laden’s wishes and your fears the Navy is going to conduct a wingnut spectacle of some kind, whatever that means.
What does this have to do with right wing politics, again?
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:58 amSo Kman now equates being against same sex marriage with hanging homosexual teenagers from construction cranes?
Too funny.
For almost 10 years now we have been told that ObL did not represent Islam. Well, if he was not representative of Islam, and was not a good and faithful Muslim, why did he deserve to be buried like one? Oh, that’s right; we must bend over and take it from Muslims because if we don’t, they might get mad at us andk kill almost 3,000 Americans, or something like that.
Any Muslim who thinks that ObL deserved to be burined in Islamic tradition should be required to vacate the U.S. TODAY.
retire05 (2d538e) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:59 amI didn’t think libtards cared about religion. Where is all this concern coming from? Islamophobia?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:02 amKman is a pussy.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:05 amKman
> I do? And you know this because….?
Because you said it for years. And you and I both know that.
> Oooooh, right. You just make things up.
Lol, you are accusing me of making things up. By the way, do you admit to calling Tea Partiers “Teabaggers?”
> Hahahaha! WTF?
Well, I did have that typo, since corrected.
> But you haven’t given any facts
You mean gone back through the tedious task of documenting how you cite their social justice goals as a reason to follow them? yeah, not in the mood.
> What campaign promises did Obama break that lead to the killing of bin Laden?
We got actionable intel from gitmo detainees. So yes, his breaking a promise did lead to capturing bin laden.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:06 amdaleyrocks, exactly. This is ridiculous. Liberals are giving Osama Bin Laden’s religious wishes and views more deference than they would give ‘bitter clingers’.
This is destruction of important evidence. We risked a lot of American lives to get it. The only argument for losing it already is deference to Islam, and I thought we weren’t supposed to let religion dictate government actions?
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:07 am“Glenn Greenwald is a jew hater……….there I said it.”
Isn’t he Jewish?
“So you’re worried that Barack Obama would conduct a wingnut spectacle.”
As the past week has shown, Obama is too cool for that.
I think one would happen in the media as folks started to discuss how to handle the body. Making it a fait accompli reduces the magnitude of the spectacle.
gator (b5a79f) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:07 am“Let’s have a muslim spectacle!”
I don’t see much spectacle in what we ended up with.
gator (b5a79f) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:09 am“I don’t see much spectacle in what we ended up with.”
gator – Right, but the most important thing is to avoid a wingnut spectacle. Check.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:12 am“Gator” is all about the optics. And being cool. How cute.
JD (29e1cd) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:13 amgator, what exactly do you mean by ‘wingnut spectacle’?
You’ve been asked many times. Am I correct to assume you merely mean discussion over what to do? What do you think makes that a “wingnut” spectacle? civil debate is “wingnut”?
No, you meant something nasty and racist, and you were trying to associate this paranoid fantasy with the right wing. You used a politically charged term, after all. Now, when asked to back it up, ya got nothing.
Hopefully Obama appeasing radical Muslims and honoring Osama Bin Laden doesn’t cost us anything because the world is convinced by the evidence he shows, but this already is a spectacle, even if you’re so paranoid about “wingnuts” that’s all you’re concerned about.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:16 amThe irony is that had we not invaded Afghanistan, detained terrorists, and “tortured” them at Gitmo we would never have obtained this intelligence in the first place. And even if we did somehow gain such intelligence, we would not have been in a position to do anything about it short of firing a cruise missile and hoping for the best.
Yet George W. Bush gets none of the credit…
5th Level Fighter (dd5bcf) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:16 amHAHAHAHA
Obama spent most of the week joking about this birth certificate and mocking Donald Trump.
He’s small. He made the right call on Osama Bin Laden, but it seems like the easiest call anyone could ever make, and his announcement was motivated by desperation to get credit for a break that happened in 2007. It also had tons of appeasement.
Oh well. You’re scared to death of the ‘wingnut spectacle’, and Obama is ‘too cool’. Brilliant analysis.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:19 amGlenn Greenwald might be a jew but he is a communist first.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:23 am“gator – Right, but the most important thing is to avoid a wingnut spectacle. Check.”
No the important thing is that we got him. Avoiding spectacle is convenient.
“What do you think makes that a “wingnut” spectacle”
Like barbaric drooling over the remains. Search Internet comment sites for words like ‘bacon’ and ‘pork’ to see some examples.
“Obama spent most of the week joking about this birth certificate and mocking Donald Trump”
I know. Nailed the birthers and brought us the deathers.
gator (8c2482) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:31 amI’ll add that he also spent some time on this operation, we are learning.
gator (8c2482) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:32 amOMG OMG WINGNUTSSSS!!!!
What kind of loon thinks that right now?
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:33 amgator – Libtards don’t care about pissing off Christians, but when it comes to Muslims, radical or otherwise, they get all obsequious. It’s the unacknowledged libtard fear factor.
Just another example of libtard hypocrisy as they try to bring the Koran into the Klassroom and the Kourts.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:34 amgator, Obama did not “nail” the birthers. To the contrary, his own games on the issue backfired on him.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:35 amI said “When it comes to social justice, we ought to appease the terrorists”?
Of course I didn’t. This is simply and bluntly, a flat-out lie, and an unsupported ad hominem attack.
Look, bunnies!!! (And yes, I admit it… again!)
Just ONE will suffice. Shouldn’t be so “tedious” if I supposedly do it all the time.
First of all, the actionable intel came before Obama was President.
Secondly, Obama never promised he was going to stop getting intelligence from captured detainees.
Nice try though.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:35 amlibtards?
“gator, Obama did not “nail” the birthers.”
Looks like everyone was laughing. But maybe you didn’t get the joke.
gator (8c2482) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:36 am“No the important thing is that we got him. Avoiding spectacle is convenient.”
gator – Too bad for you the first thing you mentioned here was avoiding a wingnut spectacle.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:37 amwingnuts?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:38 am“gator – Too bad for you the first thing you mentioned here was avoiding a wingnut spectacle.”
That was in response to the burial comment. What’s the matter with you?
gator (8c2482) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:39 amActually Kman you unamerican POS just admit you think Bush was worse than hitler.
gator is an islam apologist.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:41 amgator, yeah, I bet Obama was laughing when he saw polling that said only 38% of Americans were confident he was born in the US – including quite a few Democrats.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:42 am“Secondly, Obama never promised he was going to stop getting intelligence from captured detainees.”
Kman – Correct, he was continuing the wildly unpopular rendition program but did not want to talk about it.
With respect to Gitmo detainees, he was forced to reverse course when he could not get other countries to accept prisoners since the U.S. was unwilling to take innocent shepherds and religious students itself.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:43 amKman, Obama stated before becoming President that detainees would be treated as criminal defendants. That pretty much eliminates the kind of interrogations that obtained the information this operation was based upon.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:43 am“That was in response to the burial comment. What’s the matter with you?”
gator – Was that your first comment or not?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:44 amSPQR, on the other hand, a recent poll shows only 43% of people polled are confident that Donald Trump was born in the US.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:45 amKman claims to know that all actionable intel came from before Obama was president. This is a stunning show of support for Bush, but I think Kman is yet again lying. Can Kman prove what he just said? Of course not. He’ll say absolutely anything.
Note that he has studiously ignored a lot of the responses to his comments. He responds very selectively, in hopes of avoiding his own screw ups.
Kman made this about gay marriage and social justice. He took KSM’s propaganda as the truth about KSM’s motivations. He lied about the West inventing myths, and then claimed he’s a true patriot when called out for his anti american BS.
Now, he ignores criticisms of his blogging because he knows Aaron is not likely to link Kman’s blog. Kman is far too ashamed of his own dissembling here to link it to his own blog.
That tells us enough.
Meanwhile, Gator is spinning wildly in his paranoia about wingnuts and spectacles we must destroy this valuable evidence in order to avoid. All in a desperate effort to make Obama’s mistake somehow the right wing’s fault. No, gator, it’s Obama’s fault that we don’t have Osama Bin Laden’s body. He appeased the lamest sense of PC in honoring OBL. Nothing you make up about the right will change that one bit.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:45 amaphrael, no problem, the toupee is a natural born citizen.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:47 amGreat Moments In Bin Laden Catching (Dead or Alive!)
In March 2002, just six months after 9/11, Bush said of bin Laden, “I truly am not that concerned about him…. You know, I just don’t spend that much time on him, to be honest with you.”
In July 2006, we learned that the Bush administration closed its unit that had been hunting bin Laden.
In September 2006, Bush told Fred Barnes, one of his most sycophantic media allies, that an “emphasis on bin Laden doesn’t fit with the administration’s strategy for combating terrorism.”
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:47 amI don’t know where Trump was born. Was this a major matter of discussion over the past few years? Do you know what country Tom Cruise was born in? Meatloaf? Gary Busey?
I think it’s a remarkably high percentage claiming to know he was born here. I don’t think it shows anything.
There was nothing cool about how Obama handled the birthers. He could have refused to dignify them, or given all the material he had on it years ago. It’s a stupid issue either way.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:48 am“Looks like everyone was laughing. But maybe you didn’t get the joke.”
gator – Everybody I know was laughing at Obama for being such a putz.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:48 amWow, Kman goes full bore Bush Derangement on us.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:48 amKman, yes, George Bush understood that terrorism was not the product of one man, bin Laden. Something that seems to be too sophisticated a concept for Democrats to understand.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:49 amWho is Fred Barnes?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:49 amRemember, Kman said that the idea of Muslims getting 72 virgins was a myth invented by the west. He later realized he was wrong, and that’s why he’s trying to change the topic so aggressively.
It’s amazing, right?
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:49 amKman is a liar.
Kman should know about sycophants since he is sucking Obama’s cock.
Kman I invite you to go kiss Obama’s hairy news conference.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:50 amNo, I didn’t Dustin. This is why I don’t respond to you. Because you are fundamentally dishonest about what I say. You’re too busy spinning your own facts about the topic at hand, as well as what I say about it.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:53 amYour fundamentally dishonest
An expert on the subject speaks.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:55 amit would be really hard to remember all their names I think
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:56 am“gator – Was that your first comment or not?”
My first comment on OBL’s death was last night to my family.
gator (059a24) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:57 amSince I didn’t get a picture of Bin Laden, I will happily settle for a depiction of Muhammed.
AT (f8c504) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:58 amLet me guess you said to your family that Obama deserves to be president for life right?
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:58 amIt’s particularly amusing that Kman asserts (without really knowing) that all the intel came from the Bush admin. Why isn’t Kman congratulating Bush?
This is not the first time Kman has specifically lied about what he said, and I had to link it. He also lied about calling this blog an echo chamber. He also has said one set of facts here, and then contradicted them on his own blog (at least according to Aaron, whom I trust a lot more than Kman).
I called him out for his error, and he goes berserko instead of just accepted he doesn’t know much about the subject, as usual.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:00 pmKman
> I said “When it comes to social justice, we ought to appease the terrorists”?
No, just we need to do social justice because that’s why they hate us.
Which is the same thing.
> (And yes, I admit it… again!)
I missed the first time. By the way, then you admit you were misleading us on the subject, right?
> Just ONE will suffice.
Going back that many years is not worth the effort, especially given there is no way to search freespeech. You know you said it. I know you said it. And everyone here knows you said it because your word is nothing around here.
> First of all, the actionable intel came before Obama was President.
Actually the correct answer is we don’t know. But that is the nature of this fast-moving story.
> Secondly, Obama never promised he was going to stop getting intelligence from captured detainees.
No, he would just do all kinds of things, like transferring them to the mainland that would ensure that outcome.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:01 pmI’m almost positive it was John Casey.
Chuck Bartowski (4c6c0c) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:01 pmWhich is worse? The idea that all good intel came from the Bush era, and its policies, or that Obama continued those policies and the intel gains?
Obviously, the latter option, where Obama breaks his word, is the better one.
But either way, not really working well for Kman’s logic. If he’s right, and Obama just shut down the intel gathering process that works, that’s scary.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:03 pmMisleading on WHAT subject? Are you talking about teabagging and what does that have to do with bin Laden’s demise?
Hahahaha!!!
You can’t interrogate Gitmo detainees once they’re brought to the mainland?
LOL. You just make up stuff as you go along, don’t you?
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:05 pmI hope he’s gay. It would be a nice poke in the eye to the Islamic fundamentalists. Well, ANY fundamentalist, I suppose.
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:07 pm“My first comment on OBL’s death was last night to my family.”
gator – Nonresponsive. Judge, I rest my case and ask for summary judgment against the libtard troll.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:14 pmIf he were gay the left would be in an interesting conundrum.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:15 pmSo weird.
You keep bringing up gayness. You also keep comparing people opposed to your gay rights platform with Al Qaida. It’s so ridiculous.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:17 pmBack on janurary 20th 2009 the left did not whine about Obama not getting Osama Bin Laden.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:20 pmI guess he’s just trolling. It’s not like we’ll likely ever know the name of the people who got OBL.
It’s shameful to try to use their hard work as a political football for Kman’s social politics. He just can’t stop bringing that into everything, though.
Just wanted to repeat that Kman lied and attacked the west by claiming they made up the 72 virgin justification, and then used KSM’s propaganda as ‘proof’ they are just motivated by America’s involvement in world affairs.
Then he bashed Bush a lot, while admitting he thought all the intel that caught OBL came from Bush’s administration.
Kman is completely lost.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:20 pmkman
actually i hope they can prove bin laden was gay. how awesome would that be?
okay, he would be more likely to be bi, but i can accept that…
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:27 pmThis smells to high heaven.
I don’t believe one (1) word of any of it.
Find a fall guy, doctor some photos and dump the body where no proof can be found.
I smell a 2012 election “see what I did, and Bush could not accomplish this”
The only people who would believe any part of this may as well start bahhhing like sheep because they are Sheeple.
Bob Morrison (7b6d3a) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:41 pmBob Morrison, this is not the kind of thing you can really get away with faking like that.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:42 pmBob Morrison:
If it were fake, all bin Laden would have to do is release a video with him sitting in front of CNN’s coverage of his own death. And then do it again tomorrow, next week, etc.
I guess we’ll have to come with a term for people like you who think Obama faked bin Laden’s death — is “deather” taken?
Kman (5576bf) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:45 pmSo ow do you feel about Cindy Sheehan criticizng Obama as a war criminal?
Oh her 15 minutes of fame ended on Janurary 201h 2009 right?
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 12:47 pmObama in 2009: maybe we will prosecute waterboarding senior admin
I’m sure glad he didn’t.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:17 pm@Hey, maybe they buried him at sea in the Bay of Pigs?
Nice, love it!
xman (433032) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:20 pmI don’t know how you can give credit to the Seal team. Obama directed it all while he watched on television. It was like a cross between a reality show and a video game and Obama just got high score.
Obama got high score at the wingnuts own game! He probably could have done just as well if he had swapped out the Seal team, say, for his pick up basketball playmates. When you got that much brainz you can’t lose!
Kman Chronicles (2fd7f7) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:29 pmI’m probably not the first one to tell you this, but you are wrong about islam. bin laden was following the koran exactly. He didn’t distort anything. Have you read the koran? It’s a 7th century barbaric form of government. In my opinion it’s not a religion, but either way he didn’t distort a damn thing. Do yourself a favor and read the book of hate, dictated by satan to the lunatic pervert mohammed. You can read it online, costs nothing but time.
sablegsd (b5b2a9) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:41 pmI wish someone would explain this “wingnut spectacle” stuff to me. That’s one I’ve never heard before, particularly in this context.
Rochf (f3fbb0) — 5/2/2011 @ 1:41 pmWhat the Hell?He’s in Hell! Report: Bin Laden Buried at Sea, “In Accordance with Islamic Law” There, fixed that for ‘ya.‘I got a chance to sleep on it and I’m still offended.’
And Warburton’s Axiom may continue to be valid. No doubt the world will see video, stills and photos in due time which doesn’t compromise sources and methods too much. (Recall Stevenson’s measured revelations of U2 intel photos in ’62 at the UN of Cuban missile sites to prove to the world Americans were telling the truth.) There nothing to be gained by parading a corpse. It may be emotionally satisfying to you but unnecessarily provocative given the vulnerability of soft American and allied targets worldwide. He’s dead. We got him. Move on. Rather than criticizing President Obama w/ vain profanities hours after a near flawless success for the United States, you might consider how offensive- and disturbing- it is that Pakistan had managed to permit bin Laden to reside for quite sometime in a massive compound a kilometer or so away from a military academy in a large city. Clearly some elements in that government- which has rec’d a great deal of U.S. aid over the years- were aware of his general location. Such is the character of an ‘ally’ in the ‘War on Terror.’
One thing is certain- this will make a helluva movie. Move on to the fella in Tripoli, Patterico. No doubt he has had massive cancellations of lunch and dinner engagements overnight for the forseeable future. ‘Table for one, Leader Kaddafi?’
‘I’m going to try not to let this ruin my mood. It’s still a great day for this country when American forces shoot Osama bin Laden between the eyes. Whatever happens to his body is of secondary importance.’ Good for you. CNN’s Jeanne Meserve offered the best cryptic report late last evening: “Bin Laden’s body has been disposed at sea.”
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:04 pmKman:
This is simply and bluntly, a flat-out lie, and an unsupported ad hominem attack.
— Save this and use it to respond to your own posts.
I hope he’s gay. It would be a nice poke in the eye to the Islamic fundamentalists. Well, ANY fundamentalist, I suppose.
Icy Texan (fc3a28) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:12 pm— Example given^^^^^
Disco Stu — hasn’t got a clue!
Icy Texan (fc3a28) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:14 pmIMP was an idiot yesterday, and nothing that has happened since changed anything.
JD (60e025) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:20 pmBy claiming he is buried according to Islamic tradition, you treat your enemy with a respect they didn’t show you – this means that you are the smarter, more humble and more friendly part. Doing this, muslims all over the world will be more friendly against the US, leading to a safer and better world.
Anders (57e3ef) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:21 pmKeeping the body would have created more anger, leading to more lives lost.
Having said that, I don’t believe for a second it is actually true – of course they have kept his body. When they have taken all the samples they need they will probably dump the remains in the sea. Remember that the government tells us what they want us to believe which doesn’t necessarily has to be the truth.
Let’s not worry too much about Kman’s accusations of lying, that he never seems to be able to back up.
Kman, since you are accusing Aaron of lying about your blogging, will you please give us the URL to your blog?
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:25 pmKman can you please go kiss Obama’s buttocks somewhere else.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 2:32 pmSo we have to walk on eggshells, or moderate, nonviolent muslims, will murder people? We should not appease people who would murder if they don’t get their way.
Don’t you understand? You are empowering murderers to get their way. You are creating a cost benefit system that will lead to bloodshed, because you’re appeasing and bowing in respect of Osama Bin Laden of all people.
by all means, argue that we should respect the dead because that is what you consider right, in and of itself. But don’t do it just out of fear that if you don’t, some nut will get violent.
Islamic tradition for a fallen enemy’s body. (Graphic picture of a mutilated former SEAL)
At least, that’s the tradition of those who would be pushed to bloodshed over how we treat OBL.
No, of course, it would be horrible for us to do something like that. We should not follow Osama’s type of tradition. there’s a middle ground here.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 3:01 pmI can confirm that he was indeed buried according to Islamic law.
http://hoystory.com/?p=7055
Hoystory (249551) — 5/2/2011 @ 3:25 pmWe should not follow Osama’s type of tradition. there’s a middle ground here.
Think of it as following the Western (EuroAmerican) tradition of giving a decent burial even to one’s enemies.
kishnevi (07cf78) — 5/2/2011 @ 5:55 pmDoesn’t seem kosher.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:32 pmThat’s because it’s most likely Halal, daleyrocks 🙂
Bob Reed (5f2db5) — 5/2/2011 @ 6:35 pmOsama bin Laden’s carcass is most likely being fed upon by hagfish, a/k/a “slime eels.”
He has it coming.
1389AD (33b5f7) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:17 pmhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_bin_laden_sea_burial
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:26 pmOf course we should at least do that. That’s not really up for debate, IMO. I’m talking about a) the rush and b) the falling over ourselves to appease.
BTW, there’s no point in making of show of our moral superiority. It’s not a show. We really are better, and there’s no need to go out of our way to prove it to anyone, because anyone who needed convincing isn’t really worth convincing. They are psycho. But of course we should have, at some point, disposed of the body in a minimally respectful, human way.
After we were done with it.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:50 pmfuhgeddaboudit
ColonelHaiku (cdd0f9) — 5/2/2011 @ 7:57 pmtessio say bin laden
sleep with the fishes
hey bin laden you
slimy fook say hello to
my little fish friend
http://freakydinkys.com/img/centerImg/pigfish.jpg
ColonelHaiku (cdd0f9) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:00 pmdouble-tap to dome
TimesDislaiku (83efab) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:02 pmOsama drop Obama
say I’m cool like that
I think Michelle Obama forcefed Osama Bin Laden 550 gallons of milk causing him to die of a milk overdose…………Michelle you magnificent bastard you out-roved even Karl Rove.
/Heh
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:02 pmhit floor leaking red
TimesDislaiku (83efab) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:05 pmjust business not personal
O got gangsta lean
A couple of points: if Osama Bin Laden shows up on video claiming this attack didn’t happen, that easily could be a pre recorded message. The guy loved the video camera, but apparently he was too cowardly to risk his save haven. Still, he had to be doing something in that building for the past many years. I hope we can keep whatever writing or videos he’s made completely secret, but perhaps he was clever enough to sow some doubt.
And I also think it’s obvious the US government kept enough tissue samples of Osama that they can show some to any serious authority that questions this was the right guy.
It sure would be nice to see that video wish Osama’s human shield wife calling his name. That is powerful evidence this wasn’t some decoy, IMO.
I know this is a little early… the ‘deather’ movement hasn’t really begun yet, but I’m just sayin…
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:08 pmanotha b*tch dies
TimesDislaiku (83efab) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:09 pmclick click boom boom call the maid
let a playa play
A SEAL team went in and killed the sorry bastard. But one man fired the fatal shot. I wonder if or when we may hear his story.
Ag80 (9651c7) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:11 pmOsama Bin Laden gave muslims a bad name…………..Um no he did not.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:12 pmThe way things unfolded suggests some pretty serious planning. We figured out what we needed to do and did it. It’s clear that at least two key tasks, DNA and photo identification, were completed. By acting with dispatch and creating a fait accompli, we’ve gained some things. Diplomatic pressure or street action aimed at forcing our hand is now an obvious waste of time. As many have noted, there will be no shrine. With some Islamic touches, we made a show of respect, but still have the satisfaction of knowing that Bin Laden sleeps with the fish.
angeleno (2ffd38) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:18 pmThe left are now saying Milk leads to bronchitis and staph infection………..Eff off leftys and your junk science.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:26 pmangeleno, that’s true. They seem to have been preparing for this quite well. It was not an easy call to make at any level, and I’m glad they went in ready. That definitely speaks well of our military, and is a credit to the administration in a time when they badly need to get a little credibility back from their other military efforts.
LOL More than a touch, I think. More like heavy handed slathering of respect, to the point easily beyond appeasement. Let’s not kid ourselves. Sure, someone out there is whining this wasn’t really a good Islamic burial, but the administration went way out of their way by disposing of the body that fast, and then falling over themselves to repeatedly explain that this wasn’t about Islam (which I do think is a good point to make, though not THE point to make).
This could have gone wrong in many ways, and we can see Obama wasn’t stupid enough to trust any allies with this operation, and smart enough to let our military take the time needed to prepare properly. Easily these greatly outweighs the appeasement mistake, but it was a mistake. We are trying too hard to show reverence for Osama as a Muslim, when whatever view he had about God wasn’t worth spit.
No, it absolutely is not, as far as we know. I believe we got the right man, but given the evidence we had to compare his DNA to (a half sister among a huge family) we do not have 100% certainty. And I’m OK with that, but let’s not overstate things.\
I think this is seriously underestimating Barack Obama. He wasn’t going to hand OBL over to anyone for a state burial. He’s a relatively weakish president, but he’s not a wimp or he’d have never been elected.
And I’d love to know who wanted to honor OBL. Let them ruin their organization’s credibility.
The fact is we wanted to make a show that we’re better than Al Qaida, when no such show was really necessary. If anything, this creates more problems with the nuts than it solves.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:28 pmGulf News ia reporting that the house Bin Laden was staying in was owned by the ISI
http://gulfnews.com/news/world/end-of-world-s-most-wanted-terrorist-1.802542
EricPWJohnson (32aa9a) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:29 pmmilk taste great it helps my bones
I love my
milk tastes great it helps me grow
i love my milk!
it’s
happyfeet (760ba3) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:29 pmho
mo
gen
ized!
Osama is a corpseman.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:33 pmBush’s policies did help make this happen.
That doesn’t take away from Obama’s call to go in. It takes away from Obama’s campaign message in 2008, obviously, but there’s enough credit to go around, I think.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:38 pmYou guys are a bunch of bigots intolerance is your sustenance-Bradky from Hot Air.
Project much Gorebot?
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 8:57 pmSo let me guess this straight lefturds killing Osama is all of a sudden cool now that a democrap is the CIC?
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:09 pmAnd I’d love to know who wanted to honor OBL. Let them ruin their organization’s credibility.
Hamas issued a statement praising OBL and criticizing the US for, well, being the US.
In other news, the roulette wheel at Rick’s American in Casablanca was seen to be in operation.
kishnevi (07cf78) — 5/2/2011 @ 9:09 pmUh … yeah. Y’know, Kman, you may wanna actually READ the articles that you link. It prevents you from looking like an ass.
For example, in the Weekly Standard article by Barnes, this is what Bush said about making Osama’s capture a lower priority:
Khalid Sheik Muhammad — that name rings a bell, don’t it, Kman? Oh yeah! He’s the guy we’ve been hearing about all maddog day as being the source of the nickname of the private courier that eventually led to bin Laden. After he was (ahem) interrogated.
Did his approach work? Well, following 9/11, there were no further terrorist attacks. On that Tuesday morning we will never forget, wouldn’t we have taken that rather than America becoming Israel times infinity, always being on guard that some evil dupe would blow himself to kingdom come while you’re getting a latte? So, while Bush didn’t get the big man, he got the underlings who were actually on the ground and trying to, for example, take down the Brooklyn Bridge.
Bush wasn’t a great President IMHO, but what is a feather in his cap is that after that devastating strike, he did keep the nation safe. At this point, we can say Obama has kept us safe as well, but like Bush, his fiscal policies are doing the serious long-term damage.
L.N. Smithee (eca0f0) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:37 pm2 Years ago Obama did not kill Osama but yet the left think he is some godsend sent by the gods to combat the big mean bush.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/2/2011 @ 10:40 pmDustin: “So we have to walk on eggshells, or moderate, nonviolent muslims, will murder people?”
That’s not at all what I wrote. But you have plenty of people that are ready to die for whatever reason and could be triggered by for example disrespectful handling of the body. The world is not black and white – you have wifes, parents and friends that impacts the decisions made by the suicide bombers. If the discussions about the US get a little bit more US friendly around the kitchen table in Islamabad, you might save hundreds of innocent lifes.
So, treating the body of Usama respectful saves lifes, treating it disrespectful kills people and doesn’t lead to anything good.
Remember that you Americans have a responsibility towards the rest of the western world. Here in Europe we have gotten millions of refugees as a direct result of your wars. This costs us a tremendous amount of money and affects our countries with increased criminality, murders etc, so if you need another argument why to treat Usama respectful, use that.
Anders (734710) — 5/2/2011 @ 11:56 pmAnders, nobody forced you to admit the scum who now terrorise your streets. America has no responsibility to you and owes you nothing; it’s already shouldering more than its share of the work of defending the free world, because Europeans would rather spend their money on other things, and then bitch and moan about the only people standing between them and slavery or death. Anyone who would be angry at the public display of bin Laden’s carcass is already our enemy; and any murders he commits are by his own choice, and on his head, not ours. Humans are moral agents, they have free will, and they are responsible for their own crimes.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 5/3/2011 @ 12:09 amThat’s what you wrote.
Who in the hell is going to get angry and kill people?
Exactly: you want the USA to walk on eggshells in order to prevent pure evil. People who you claim are triggered by ‘disrespect’ to Osama Bin Laden, which, since you’re replying to me, must mean a normal few days wait before a basic disposal of the body. That’s who we should appease.
A responsibility to appease people who would murder other people if Osama Bin Laden’s corpse is disrespected, by which you mean not given such a strict adherence to Islamic Law funeral that we merely kept the body for a few days.
You blame the USA if they kill people.
You, sir, are a bigot against Muslims either radical or general, if you really think they are not responsible for their behavior, and we are responsible for their behavior.
I think your bashing the USA is unthoughtful, not only of the vast debt Europe owes the USA for winning the Cold war, but also for your ignorance of Europe’s great responsibility for the state of that part of the world. It was Britain that really set Iran on its sad course. It was France that gave Saddam his nuclear reactor. The continent is brutal in the ivory coast, and appeases murderers in Libya.
Ah, what’s the point. You’re wrong. I should have just left Milhouse’s response sit. It says all that needs to be said.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:03 amThe ones suffering are the kids in the education system.
How dare we kill Bin Laden he might have given the kids in NY’s public schools a chance.
/Sarcasm off
DohBiden (15aa57) — 5/3/2011 @ 4:13 am“Anders, nobody forced you to admit the scum who now terrorise your streets.”
Anders (e37bfe) — 5/3/2011 @ 9:09 amMilhouse: that is absolutely true, but 99,7% of them happen to be normal, honest people that fled the wars in their countries- so it is our duty as fellow humans to help them when they are in need of that. One day Americans might need help and then you are welcome too (you are btw already welcome).
Anders does not appear to like it when you quote his own words.
JD (d27367) — 5/3/2011 @ 9:12 amI would agree, Dustin, but they don’t debate, they do the ‘argument clinic,’ our trolls, are only a few steps removed from the arguments of Pelosi,
narciso (79ddc3) — 5/3/2011 @ 9:14 amDurbin, et al
The idea that there are this mass of people who bear no animosity toward the US unless and until we mishandle bin Laden’s body is just ludicrous.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/3/2011 @ 9:26 amOh, and Anders, this: Remember that you Americans have a responsibility towards the rest of the western world. Here in Europe we have gotten millions of refugees as a direct result of your wars.
is historically false. Europe is filled with refugees of European wars and European conflict. Europe has been an immense failure at managing itself. Blaming the US for European failure is par for the course.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/3/2011 @ 9:28 am“Who in the hell is going to get angry and kill people?”
Dustin: terrorist bombers obviously (and not normal honest people). But all persons capable of commit terrorist acts doesn’t nesecarily have to go through with it. They are triggered by opinion, how they are treated and a wide range of other parameters as all other human beings. The US has access to nuclear weapons but uses them only when threatened, apply the same logic to the terrorists and you’ll understand my point.
“…kept the body for a few days.”
It’s their tradition and religion, what’s normal to to you and me is not normal to everyone. If an American died in Rwanda and the guys there chopped the body to pieces in order to honor the tradition and religion, you would be furious. You would have wanted that body to be treated in a western manner.
When it comes to your view of Europe you are just pure wrong. The shit going on in Iran is because some radical Muslims had a revolution in the early 80’s, before that the civilization was quite well working with a peaceful government and well educated people. The cold war was started as a result of the tensions between Russia and the US – why should the Europeans be thankful to you stopping something you started in the first place?
Anders (83bfe7) — 5/3/2011 @ 9:37 amAbout the wars in the Ivory cost and the rest of Africa: the Europeans definitely is responsible for most of the crap going on there now because of the colonialization somewhat 150 years ago, but if that is your argument also the success of the US can be connected to the European settlements and colonies.
You should be happy that you have friends in Europe, now when you fucked up your economy we provide you with cheap loans, oil, gas and moral support.
SPQR:
Do you mean that all of todays Europeans are European refugees because of the fact that most countries were invaded by Germany 72 years ago? In that case all north Americans are refugees because of the civil war you had in the past.
Refugees from Iraq and Afghanistan in enourmous amounts enters Europe through Greece. You have no land connections to the countries you attacked so you don’t see much of the humanitary situation the wars have led to.
Anders (57e3ef) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:02 pmEmo leftists like Anders are soooooooo cute. They feel, therefore, they are.
JD (29e1cd) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:12 pmImagine if we just flipped Anders’ logic around.
We could demand all kinds of respect, such as not blaming my country for his country’s immigration problems, or we kill this kitten (to use Aaron’s favorite threat).
The deck is stacked so unfairly in his argument that he has to know he’s a bitter anti american and has dehumanized Muslims into animals who can’t control themselves.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:14 pm“Here in Europe we have gotten millions of refugees as a direct result of your wars.”
Anders – There in Europe you have millions of immigrants due to your colonization and subjugation of the rest of the world. Your failure to assimiliate immigrants into your cultures and to hold them responsible for their own actions is your problem, not America’s. Nice try, but FAIL.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:18 pmJD:
I’m not a leftie in any way, I’m right wing/liberal – but obviously our most right wing party is more left wing than the US Democrats.
Dustin:
I’m not blaming you, I just try to show you that there are more sides to this story than the US versus Al Quaida. Your actions affect the entire world.
daleyrocks: As if you were experts in integration 🙂 It is extremely complicated to get integration to work when it comes to refugees from the developing countries. As far as I know there are no successful examples of that anywhere in the world. When thousands of illiterate refugees from Somalia wants to live and work in the western countries, what do you do with them in order to get them integrated?
Anders (57e3ef) — 5/3/2011 @ 1:38 pmSo, just to clarify my point (as you do the best you can to misconstrue me):
With an inch of empathy you can try to put yourself in the muslims situation.
Imagine that Iran thought that the nuclear weapons in Alaska was too threatening and decided to launch an attack. Your military would respond and you would have a war in Alaska.
Imagine that the war would go on for years and that Iran had the advantage most of the time. You would obviously hate Iran for attacking you, but after some years your life goes on even though the war continues. One day you are getting married and all your friends and family meet up to celebrate. On satellite images Iran mix up the crowd with a military gathering and attack you, leading to most of your family and friends dead, together with your new wife etc.
In that situation you, as one of the few survivors, would hate Iran even more than before and do everything you could to get revenge. Plenty of US citizens would in that situation turn into suicide bombers (you already had your share of suicide shootings where bullied kids go to a school, killing as many people as possible before ending their lives). A humble excuse from Iran would probably not do much to change your mind – you would still want to erase them from the face of the earth.
Now – apply that situation to Afghanistan where your military by accident have killed a lot of civilians. Every time you, by accident or intentionally, kill a person, you upset 5 others and increases the risks for creating new suicide bombers or terrorist attacks.
The solution to this dilemma is not easy, but a start would be to treat people as nice and friendly as possible, by for example bury their bodies according to their tradition.
By behaving as nice as possible at all times you minimize the risks of getting revenge actions – this does not only go for war situations; if you are an asshole to people around you, they are gonna be assholes back.
Is my point clear? Do you finally agree with me?
Anders (57e3ef) — 5/3/2011 @ 2:06 pmI agree that you are a douchenozzle, a moral relativist, and a true leftist.
JD (85b089) — 5/3/2011 @ 2:24 pmI think if the triggerman’s identity gets out he won’t be buying his own beer for a long time. Unfortunately he’d also be making himself a target, so all in all it’s best kept a secret.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 5/3/2011 @ 11:54 pmThis quote from a HotAir comment nails it:
“The administration is obviously very pleased with the situation room photo. I’m sure they want it and Obama at Ground Zero to be the iconic images connected with the event.”
So we have the real reason the WH wont release the OBL photos: Obama isn’t in them.
Barack's Clown Shoes (8d33ce) — 5/5/2011 @ 9:41 am“Obama spent most of the week joking about this birth certificate and mocking Donald Trump.
He’s small.”
Sure, but he wears big clown shoes.
Barack's Clown Shoes (8d33ce) — 5/5/2011 @ 9:42 amAnders, yep, Holland’s Moluccan population … all the US’ fault. Germany’s Turkish population, all the US’ fault. France’s Moroccan, Tunisian and Algerian population, all the US’ fault.
You are just full of nonsense.
SPQR (26be8b) — 5/5/2011 @ 9:54 amAlso, much of the Jewish population in Europe wouldn’t be there but for American foreign policy.
Dustin (c16eca) — 5/5/2011 @ 9:57 am