Patterico's Pontifications

4/30/2011

Anti-Terry Jones Riot in Dearborn; MSM Bias on Display (Update: Instalink!)

Filed under: General — Aaron Worthing @ 11:59 am

[Guest post by Aaron Worthing; if you have tips, please send them here.  Or by Twitter @AaronWorthing.]

Update: Instalink! Thanks. Also via Gateway Pundit, we get this video of the scene.

It doesn’t show you what Jones as saying or doing, though.

—————————–

So yesterday Terry Jones held his protest, but at City Hall.  And well… let’s read how the New York Times covers it:

Michigan: Koran-Burning Pastor Draws a Boisterous Crowd

Tensions flared Friday as Terry Jones, the Florida pastor whose burning of a Koran sparked violence in Afghanistan, demonstrated Friday on the steps of City Hall in Dearborn, home to one of the largest Muslim communities in the nation. In rambling remarks over three hours, he mostly spoke against what he called “extremist Muslim influences” in the United States. Dearborn police made three arrests for misdemeanors. The department estimated the crowd at 700 people. Mr. Jones’s comments were often drowned out by the horns of passing cars and the boos and chants of protesters, some of whom carried signs saying, “Terrorist Go Home” and “Leave Us Alone.”

You got that?  They were boisterous.  And only three arrested.  Move along, nothing to see here…

Except it wasn’t really that.  It was a riot of about fifty people.  Of course the local papers, such as the Detroit News and the Detroit Free Press couldn’t very well ignore it.  So in their news pages they editorialize that all of this is his fault.

So this is how the Detroit News covers it:

Florida pastor’s rally ends after brief fracas

Quran-burning Pastor Terry Jones had his say in Dearborn. Few appeared to hear him.

Thunderous boos from a crowd of about 700 protesters drowned out much of his speech Friday afternoon at Dearborn City Hall. The 90-minute event momentarily erupted into chaos when Jones and several dozen of his supporters approached a metal barricade around City Hall and engaged his opponents.

A crowd of at least 50 people surged across Michigan Avenue, breaking a barricade, throwing water bottles and shoes. Riot police restored order within minutes and took at least two people into custody.

Dearborn Mayor John B. O’Reilly Jr. said Jones is partly to blame. “Even though we said, ‘Please don’t go to the barricades,’ he just ignored it,” O’Reilly said. “My assessment is this is a man without character.”

Funny, I feel the same way about you, Mayor.

Jones said he approached the barricade to recite the Pledge of Allegiance with opponents, but witnesses said the pastor appeared to egg them on, opening his palms in a provocative manner.

Opening palms is provocative?  Opening palms is a peaceful gesture.  This is what this site says on the subject of hands and body language:

There are 2 basic rules you have to remember when looking at hand gestures: Open palms (when you can see the palms of someone’s hands) suggests openness, honesty, and a liking, whilst closed palms(when you can see the back of someone’s hands) suggests that they may be hiding something, are closed to your ideas, or are feeling like they are in authority.

And it’s something I have heard over and over again.  It is believed that by opening your palm, the cave man parts of our brains recognize that this means you are disarmed and that creates greater ease.  It is downright bizarre to tell us that opening your palms is an aggressive gesture.

And of course Mayor O’Reilly  continues to be a tool:

“This is not man of great depth,” O’Reilly said. “We saw the extent of his knowledge today. If he comes back and gets coverage by the media, then shame on the media.”

Hey, Mayor O, maybe the media won’t cover it if (1) city hall stops trampling on his speech rights, (2) everyone stops pretending he is responsible when radical Muslims react violently and (3) when radical Muslims stop reacting violently.  Seriously, what do you think would have happened to him if the police weren’t there?

And here’s the Detroit Free Press’ coverage of it.

Tempers flare at Pastor Terry Jones’ Dearborn rally

Don’t you love these headlines?  “Tempers flare”?  “Fracas”?  They never mention who precisely was being violent, and they don’t correctly label the violence.  Shouldn’t the headline be more like this:“Radical Muslims Riot at Terry Jones Protest”?  I mean feel free to argue that should be tweaked a little, but isn’t that closer to the mark?

And here’s what they say about it:

Jones repeatedly provoked the crowd and insulted them. At one point, he ignored police requests by ambling down to the front of police barricades while taunting his opponents.

Angered, some of those protesters stormed past their police barricades and marched across Michigan Avenue as they hurled bottles and shoes at Jones’ supporters across from them. One woman spit in Jones’ direction.

Notice, of course the contrast.  When a Tea Partier was falsely accused of spitting at a black congressman, this was taken as proof that the entire Tea Party were bigots.  But when these people spit and riot, it’s Jones that is tarred.

The young crowd then pushed down a security fence that separated them from Jones’ supporters and surged forward, their faces tight with anger. For a moment, it appeared a major clash was about to break out.

But Arab-American leaders and police pushed back the angry group as dozens of police officers in full riot gear marched out in single file to separate the two sides. At least two were arrested. Dearborn Mayor John O’Reilly Jr. said afterward that Jones was responsible for creating the disturbance by ignoring city requests not to approach the barricade.

“He refused to comply,” O’Reilly said. “He was asked, ‘Please don’t come to the barricade.’ He just ignored us. … His goal was to start trouble. … That shows his character.”

Yeah, just like those evil black people who sat at lunch counters to protest segregation.  Didn’t they know that by just sitting where they were not supposed to they were provoking violence?

And of course I am being facetious.  Yes, those civil rights protesters did know.  It was a sign of their courage that they knew and they went anyway.  And yes, they did intend to provoke violence, to show the world that just sitting at a lunch counter could get those hateful, ignorant idiots to attack them.  Yes, it was provocative, but only because the segregationists were easily provoked—unreasonably easily provoked.  And we all understand that in that context.  And none of us blame those civil rights protesters for the violence that did break out in those sorts of things.

But why don’t we apply those principles to acts like this?

Oh, right because they don’t like his point of view.  And I will be first to admit that if this is true…

Jones launched an attack on Obama, questioning the president’s speech in Cairo, Egypt, in which he said Islam was part of the American story.

“Islam has never been part of the American story,” Jones said.

…that Jones is a bigot.  I am reluctant to believe it because the media has been so shameful during this entire episode, but if he said it, that is a bigoted thing to say.  But the fact remains that they are just words.  And it doesn’t justify a riot.  And it certainly doesn’t exactly prove him wrong when he says that Islam is a violent religion.  Indeed, seriously, someone with moderate PR skills really needs to talk to these protesters…

The crowd grew as they spoke, with more Muslims appearing as the rally took place. Some waved shoes, an Arab symbol of disrespect. Others held up Qurans. American, Palestinian and Lebanese flags also were waved. More than 600 counter-protesters appeared to assemble.

Um, guys, if you want Americans to get on your side, don’t protest a man claiming that you are not part of the American story by waiving flags for Palestine and Lebanon.  Consider that a free tip.

And of course they remind us of the injustice last week:

Jones’ rally at City Hall came a week after he failed to get permission to protest at the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, the largest mosque in metro Detroit.

On April 22, a jury said Jones was likely to breach the peace if he carried out a rally there. Jones and Sapp were briefly jailed and then released after posting a $1 bond each. They were banned from the mosque and adjacent property for three years.

Well in fact, Jones did not once breach the peace.  The protesters did.  So they will be lifting that order any minute now, right?  No, of course not.  And it is a travesty that it remains in place.

All this city has done is make this man, who apparently is an anti-Muslim bigot, into a free speech martyr and put a state endorsement on the idea that Muslims can’t be expected to control themselves.  Would it be too much to ask the media to treat these guys as badly as Tea Partiers, or conversely, to treat Tea Partiers as good as rioting radical Muslims?

Hat Tip: The American Thinker, who has more (American!) thoughts.

[Posted and authored by Aaron Worthing.]

160 Responses to “Anti-Terry Jones Riot in Dearborn; MSM Bias on Display (Update: Instalink!)”

  1. Dearborn Michigan
    Festering Command Central
    Religion of Peas

    ColonelHaiku (cdd0f9)

  2. I’d bet some of the Terry Jones supporters got some nice video of the spitting, shoe flinging and breaking of the barricades.

    If they got the audio of what he was saying to the crowd too, I’m betting it’ll make a nice propaganda clip for someone.

    Xmas (bbb966)

  3. The final headline we’re leading up to is that Michigan settles the lawsuit brought by Jones for a large sum of money, apologizing for violating his basic rights, and then Jones goes up to a Mosque and protests it.

    If those in Dearborn didn’t want that to happen, they should have ignored Jones. Let him say whatever it is he wants to say (I don’t pay attention to him), and if it’s bad enough, just say why in response to him.

    If you wanted to prove that Muslims are tolerant, you should have given them a chance to let Jones insult them without being attacked.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  4. Aw, our first Islamist riot. I’m sure the tough denunciations* will stamp out further ones.

    *”Boisterous”=”mostly peaceful.”

    Patricia (f8db02)

  5. The Joooooooos are behind this, just like 9/11.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  6. Jones is a Zionist surname

    SteveG (cc5dc9)

  7. boy dustin, you’re an optimist.

    Aaron Worthing (73a7ea)

  8. Was it a California college that expelled a student for burning a flag?

    (A Hamas flag.)

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  9. Wasn’t the US at war with Muslim countries in the early years of the republic? That would suggest that Muslims were a part of American history, just not a good part.

    Tanny O'Haley (12193c)

  10. boy dustin, you’re an optimist.

    Comment by Aaron Worthing

    Yeah. In more ways than one. I guess the final headline we’re actually leading up to is Jones being murdered for mere speech.

    Still, I wonder, if the Dearborn government treated this like it wasn’t the end of the world, if that would lead to less excitement all around.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  11. “Muslims were a part of American history, just not a good part.”

    This is accurate. But accuracy about these sorts of things
    is bigotry, really.

    SarahW (af7312)

  12. I blame Bush, I mean Obama, for not closing Gitmo.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  13. Oh, I get it. Riots in Dearborn. It’s like an Arab Spring right here in the good old US of A? Right?

    elissa (b7ea05)

  14. i don’t think muslims, on balance, are a bad part of american history. yes, obviously the bad ones get more attention, but oh well.

    And while i don’t know if there were any muslims in america at the founding, i do know that they were around enough to merit a mention in the will of Thad Stevens, who i have told you before is correctly considered the father of the 14th amendment. in the will he set aside funds for the founding of an orphanage that was to be desegregated along religious and racial lines. Specifically he says that black, white, christians, jews, hindus and “mohammadeens” shall break bread at the same table. which means 1) he ran into enough muslims to notice they existed, but 2) not enough to avoid using a really dumb term for the group. But let’s not get hung up on that term and notice instead the sentiment, there.

    Aaron Worthing (73a7ea)

  15. terry jones knows don’t
    take Koran fire to offend
    Haj al-Sheed Mahdrors

    ColonelHaiku (cdd0f9)

  16. I like the part in the Detroit News article, “He is blamed for more than a dozen deaths in Afghanistan after footage of his church burning a Quran in March was posted on the Internet.” I think he is, perhaps, being blamed by the same sort of folks who offer judgements like, “My assessment is this is a man without character” or “This is not (a) man of great depth.”

    I’m not especially fond of his having burned a Koran, but this is remarkably heavy-handed for what is presumed news reporting.

    mj (a48f97)

  17. Jones soon find out
    losing gambit to piss off
    M’Balz EsHari

    ColonelHaiku (cdd0f9)

  18. Colonel go mano
    a mano with Yemeni
    named Hous bin Pharteen

    ColonelHaiku (cdd0f9)

  19. elissa – It has not been very Springlike around here yet.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  20. Colonel – How about his brother, Ibn Pharteen.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  21. eye peeled for Mustaf
    Jerbeel Apyur Poupr and
    son Apul Madeek

    ColonelHaiku (cdd0f9)

  22. and I’m spent…

    ColonelHaiku (cdd0f9)

  23. Jones burn Koran in
    Dearborn but will not go to
    ‘D’ and use ‘N’ word

    TimesDislaiku (d6b389)

  24. advice to Pastor
    centerfold Sila Sahin
    and Jur Khan D’Teetz

    TimesDislaiku (d6b389)

  25. Meanwhile, over in San Francisco, Gays and Leftards gather for their annual mocking of Jesus festival…

    http://pajamasmedia.com/zombie/2011/04/27/christians-mock-gays-at-shocking-easter-service/

    No comment from the MSM or various Leftard officials, I imagine.

    Dave Surls (ce9055)

  26. if terry jones is responsible for the deaths in afghanistan, can’t i blame bin laden for the war in iraq?

    apetra (6c4f03)

  27. 2) not enough to avoid using a really dumb term for the group. But let’s not get hung up on that term

    oh but let’s

    Mohammedan (also spelled Muhammadan, Mahommedan, Mahomedan or Mahometan) is a Western term for a follower of the Islamic prophet Muhammad.[1] As an archaic English language term, it is used as both a noun and an adjective, meaning belonging or relating to, either Muhammad or the religion, doctrines, institutions and practices that he established.[2][3] The word was formerly common in western usage, but the terms Muslim and Islamic are more common today.

    link

    newrouter (e57c5c)

  28. TO: Pattrico
    RE: ‘Anti-Muslim’?

    He [Pastor Terry Jones] is just proving a very important point.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [The influence of the religion [Islam] paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world — Winston Churchill, 1899]

    Chuck Pelto (73cfe4)

  29. ColonelHaiku – Prof. U.R. Phukt say special place in hell wait for you.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  30. “Islam has never been part of the American story,” Jones said.

    Of course Islam is part of the American story. Starting – like it says in that song “to the shores of Tripoli” – when two hundred years ago the US sent forces to challenge the Islamic pirates of North African who had taken US civilians as hostages.

    Israel P. (99557a)

  31. Let’s not forget exactly why Jefferson obtained a Koran for his library.

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  32. Islam is NOT “part of the American story.” It is alien to the concepts of religious tolerance, human equality, freedom of speech and democratic politics. We can tolerate Islam in small doses, but it is a theocratic political system that is antithetical to Western civilization and needs to be rejected in no uncertain terms.

    Punditius (bbd98e)

  33. Why did Jefferson do it, Have Blue?

    Patricia (f8db02)

  34. To say that Islam is part of the American story is to elevate a flea to the size of an elephant. Comedy gold!

    Mattie (6d0d9b)

  35. I have recently learned that a small portion of African slaves who came to the US in the middle passage prior to the US Revolution were Muslim, and a few had been educated and could read the Koran. Some people newly enslaved, even though nearly starving on the slave ships, refused to eat salt pork during the passage.

    elissa (b7ea05)

  36. 31.Let’s not forget exactly why Jefferson obtained a Koran for his library.
    Comment by Have Blue — 4/30/2011 @ 3:54 pm

    33.Why did Jefferson do it, Have Blue?
    Comment by Patricia — 4/30/2011 @ 4:00 pm

    On cold nights Jefferson would tear a few pages out to get the library fireplace started.

    TimesDisliker (d6b389)

  37. When Jefferson was an Ambassador in Europe he was speaking with the representative of one of the Muslim North African sultanates. The Islamic gentleman informed Jefferson about how his people saw the relationship between Muslims and the West. Jefferson became convinced that conflict between the muslim states and the West was inevitable and wished to further understand the culture.

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  38. Islam part of American history? Of course, this part:

    In 1785 Jefferson & John Adams met the Tripoli ambassador in London to inquire why Tripoli was preying on American shipping when America had done nothing to offend them. The ambassador replied that “it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”
    The best things never change.

    Jim (56115e)

  39. People who regard Islam as a vile, violent, cruel and malelovent thing are not bigots. They are realists. Anyone who says otherwise is either misinformed or belongs to that hateful cult of death.

    Douglas (392f36)

  40. Two tangential dissents (to be clear, I’m in agreement with just about every thing you said except these two side points):
    Opening palms is a peaceful gesture
    Not always: when it’s part of the gesture used to accompany or signify the phrases “go away”, “don’t bother me”, etc.–the arm is waved with the palm facing the person or thing you want to ignore or dismiss or become silent. In that case the open palm would be used in a provocative manner. If video exists, as suggested in comment 2, we’ll be able to see exactly what Jones did.
    When a Tea Partier was falsely accused of spitting at a black congressman, this was taken as proof that the entire Tea Party were bigots. But when these people spit and riot, it’s Jones that is tarred.
    What you want to show to be equivalent isn’t. The equivalence you want to show (or more precisely, the double standard on the part of the news media) you want to illuminate would be true only if a) the black congressmen had started shouting at the members of the Tea Party before the supposed spitting had begun–which, IIRC, did not happen or b)Jones had gone up to the barricades and started to talk at the counterprotesters.

    kishnevi (cc1ec4)

  41. Jones had gone up

    was meant to read

    Jones had not gone up

    kishnevi (cc1ec4)

  42. The Congress men in question a) specifically walked through a hostile crowd parading a huge gavel in a clear attempt to provoke an extreme reaction and b) in at least one case yelled racial epithets at the protesters in the crowd. (And yes he did so first as no one in the crowd was ever shown to have done so even after the provocation.)

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  43. Why in the heck do you think Jones chiding zero about the completely bogus statement that muslims were a big part of American history is bigoted? Since when does the truth make you a bigot? Wise up dhimmi.

    sablegsd (b5b2a9)

  44. “b)Jones had gone up to the barricades and started to talk at the counterprotesters.”

    kishnevi – From the video here it appears that the counter protester and Jones were separated by a street with traffic flowing on it and that each group had barricades on its on side of the street. The reference to Jones approaching the barricades seems to mean Jones approaching the barriers on his own side of the street, which is a silly standard for the mayor complain about.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  45. I’m glad Terry brought his mis shapen head to Michigan. His mustache highlights his an us mouth.
    He is a credit to in bre ds everywhere

    InbredLover (90008e)

  46. “He is a credit to in bre ds everywhere”

    He’s kind of a wanker, but, on the plus side, he doesn’t kidnap children and then murder them by flying them into the sides of buildings, where the tots are quite literally torn limb from limb.

    Too bad you can’t say the same for the Islamo-scum Jones is ridiculing.

    Dave Surls (ce9055)

  47. For the apologists here:

    If burning a Quran is a stupid thing to do, how stupid is rioting and killing people who had absolutely nothing to do with it.

    Jay Stevens (cc0eae)

  48. I’m getting a little tired of the obligatory insults as to Terry Jones’ intelligence, character or motives that people seem to feel compelled to add in any attempt to defend his right to free speech.
    If you can’t defend an American’s right to free speech and right to not have to comply with islamic sharia on American soil without gratuitously insulting the one American who is willing to stand up for those rights, then you can’t defend free speech at all because you are by your actions showing that you are afraid of offending the islamorageboys too.

    Zilla (99becd)

  49. ‘let me be clear’ Jones, is perfectly within his right to speak and even burn a Koran, if some one
    can picket a private funeral, there’s nothing out of bounds. But one wishes he were a little more informed on the subject of what he speaks, like mentioning certain Surah’s of a controversial nature

    narciso (79ddc3)

  50. Was that smoking-hot Miss Arab-America at the riot?

    Torquemada (fccc6f)

  51. The Detroit News article says:

    Jones took aim at President Barack Obama, calling him a “liar” and saying that he did not go to school in Indonesia.

    I wonder what that is supposed to mean? Does he think that Obama was truant every day for the four years he lived in Indonesia? Or did the newspaper get the statement wrong (which seems just as plausible)?

    Joshua (3c262d)

  52. re: post #29… tell me something I don’t know, Daley…

    ColonelHaiku (cdd0f9)

  53. Comment by daleyrocks — 4/30/2011 @ 6:16 pm

    The video won’t play for me (the usual situation–dialup and youtube don’t play well together). From your description, yes, the mayor was an idiot. More precisely, one of several idiots.

    Does the video show anything corresponding to the “open palm” gesture the newspaper story alleged? Or anything that might be considered a provocative gesture on the part of Jones?

    kishnevi (cc1ec4)

  54. And now on a second attempt Firefox gives me Page Not Found.
    A quick search brings up these two as apparently the longest, and therefore presumably fullest, although the first one seems to be simply highlights from three hours of videorecording.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyl7iHcSDr8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U96Wr0z7qNM

    Not that either one will actually play for me…

    kishnevi (cc1ec4)

  55. I’m torn on the subject of Terry Jones.

    As an American, I recognize his right to free speech, especially on the political and religious matters that the First Amendment was created to defend in the first place.

    As a Christian who wants to see more Muslims come to love Jesus, I wish Jones would catch a clue and stop antagonizing Muslims. Making people mad is NOT the way to make them want to listen to you. You’re supposed to be winning souls for Jesus, you idiot! That’s your primary duty on this earth! And YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!

    … So yeah. I’m one of those who’ll be saying “Jones has a total right to say what he is saying… but I really think he should shut up.”

    Robin Munn (cd9337)

  56. “I’m getting a little tired of the obligatory insults as to Terry Jones’ intelligence, character or motives…”

    I’m not.

    And, I think the guy is a couple of cans short of a six pack.

    Dave Surls (ce9055)

  57. And while i don’t know if there were any muslims in america at the founding

    If there were any they left no trace, and they certainly didn’t take part in that founding.

    i do know that they were around enough to merit a mention in the will of Thad Stevens, who i have told you before is correctly considered the father of the 14th amendment. in the will he set aside funds for the founding of an orphanage that was to be desegregated along religious and racial lines. Specifically he says that black, white, christians, jews, hindus and “mohammadeens” shall break bread at the same table. which means 1) he ran into enough muslims to notice they existed,

    Bulldust. That is an astounding leap of illogic. He probably never laid eyes on one in his life. Nor probably a hindoo either.

    but 2) not enough to avoid using a really dumb term for the group.

    What’s dumb about it? It’s a valid English term for them.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  58. I am reluctant to believe it because the media has been so shameful during this entire episode, but if he said it, that is a bigoted thing to say.

    Yes, had he said “Islam has never been a positive part of the American story”, he’d have been more accurate.

    I’m not the least bit surprised to find the crowd here hates him. How dare HE take the stand you’re all too cowardly to take? How dare HE stand for liberty? Doesn’t he know that such things should be left to the purely theoretical acts of second-rate lawyers and muddled half-wits? He’s Not Our Class, Dear, right? Stupid, religious, white, Southern — all the things you’ve been taught are inferior, all the things you MUST believe are inferior, or your own self-assumed superiority might come into question.

    Rob Crawford (202969)

  59. Making people mad is NOT the way to make them want to listen to you. You’re supposed to be winning souls for Jesus, you idiot! That’s your primary duty on this earth! And YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!

    Perhaps his audience isn’t the Muslims?

    Nah. Can’t be. He’s too stupid. He has to be doing what you assume he’s doing, and doing it poorly.

    Can’t be that YOU’RE the one too dim to understand what he’s doing.

    Nope. Your ego rejects that possibility.

    Rob Crawford (202969)

  60. I just wanna know why that cowardly Palin hoochie wasn’t standing right there at good Pastor Terry’s.

    Spineless wench.

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  61. Pastor Terry’s side I mean

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  62. It’s very disappointing.

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  63. Actually, pikachu, she denounced him, about seven months ago, in tandem with being critical of the GZ mosque,

    narciso (79ddc3)


  64. It is downright bizarre to tell us that opening your palms is an aggressive gesture.

    Well, I grant that it’s possible (“Talk to the hand!“), but I’m not betting that’s the gesture he used.

    Smock Puppet (c9dcd8)

  65. oh my goodness Mr. narciso

    This is a sad sorry state of affairs.

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  66. I don’t like the ‘good reverend’ that much is clear, but I dislike intimidation even more.

    narciso (79ddc3)

  67. “Does the video show anything corresponding to the “open palm” gesture the newspaper story alleged?”

    kishnevi – The video is shot from too far away and above. You can’t see individual gestures.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  68. Here is Palin’s comment on Jones. It seems reasonable, as an expression of opinion.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  69. Xenophobe! Nativist!

    I thought Jones was a nutty hick when he first made news, but seeing him interviewed, he has been clear, cogent and calm in his arguments. Have to give him a limited amount of respect.

    breitbartfan77 (e71ad9)

  70. Spineless Wench.

    Now now crappyfeet no need to talk about yourself like that.

    BTW palin is wrong koran burning is freedom of speech.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  71. All this city has done is make this man, who apparently is an anti-Muslim bigot, into a free speech martyr and put a state endorsement on the idea that Muslims can’t be expected to control themselves.

    Ok, sorry, I’m missing it.

    He’s anti-Muslim, yea, I’ll go along with that.

    Why is he a bigot?

    Bigot: n. a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race

    Yes, he sees problems with Islam. Is that a bigot? Then you’re apparently a bigot, too, Aaron? Because it’s clear that, just as I do, you DO see problems with Islam.

    You say:

    “Islam has never been part of the American story,” Jones said.
    …that Jones is a bigot.

    Again, WHY? Islam has been part of the American story, mainly that of Jefferson and the Barbary pirates, but that’s not usually what is meant by the idea behind “part of the American story”.

    One could say “Zimbabweans have never been a part of the American story”, and, if you found ONE person from Zimbabwe who actually had some minor but notable part of “The American Story” (which we’re leaving kinda undefined here, you note), would that make one “a bigot”?

    I know there have been occasional muslims of significance in America, but the number is, I believe, rather small. There are far, far larger groups — both nationality and creed, religion and race — which vastly outweigh any contributions made by Americans who were also Islamic. And even there, an awful lot of THAT is by people who have converted to Islam in the wake of the 60s.

    I’m not seeing where you’re coming from here, Aaron.

    I personally suspect that Jones is a small-minded idiot, who just happens to have hit on the RIGHT idea, which is to invoke tit-for-tat to achieve some personal notoriety. I suspect that. I don’t presume it.

    And at this point, I don’t care that much about it. It’s got little to nothing to do with the essential rightness of what he’s doing, which is to tweak Islam back. To step on their toes until they apologize for having long, fat, and clumsy feet.

    It’s time we did this.

    It’s damned clear that being patient and tolerant isn’t getting us anywhere.

    We need to make it damned clear that we’re, as a society, sick of this crap.

    “If you want anything more from us, then we expect to see open action and intent on your part to stop the kind of irrational, unacceptable, and downright uncivilized behavior on the part of those sharing the Islamic faith. We expect protests when wrong actions are made in the name of Islam, voiced anger when evil is performed in the name of Islam, and prosecutions to be sought when crimes are committed in the name of Islam. Otherwise, you will be expanding this rift between us. I guarantee you WE WILL SURVIVE IT. You, on the other hand, may not. Islamic fanatics lack the power to strike hard enough at us, and certainly lack the patience needed to accumulate that power. If Islam continues down this path, it will be the End of Islam, **not** the End of the West. You can no longer sit on your hands and leave it to us to solve a problem which clearly has its genesis in your realm. This is now YOUR problem. The silence of so-called moderates is unacceptable.

    Islam will show that the moderates ARE the power in Islam, or else it will be a clear and self-evident sign that the fanatics DO control Islam, and that Islam is, indeed, the preeminent threat to mankind that any rational person can see it is, despite the assurances that these fanatics are a small percentage of Islam’s followers.”

    IgotBupkis, President, United Anarchist Society (c9dcd8)

  72. I just wanna know why that cowardly Palin hoochie wasn’t standing right there at good Pastor Terry’s.

    Spineless wench.

    She was hardly cowardly, happyfeet. She was well reasoned, firm and unhesitating in her response to Jones (see milhouse’s link above). It’s also very gratuitous of you to pull her into this and link her with Jones. Why not wonder if pro-life Christian Mitch Daniels was standing at his side? I guess Daniels is even more cowardly and spineless because he didn’t even take the time to write a condemnation of Jones’ behavior.

    Your unreasoned backdoor swipe at her is pathetic and your continued use of hoochie is sexist and denigrating. Cut it out.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  73. It would actually be factual to blame Bin laden for the war in iraq.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  74. Yes, Daniels was all about the fetuses this weekend, or were you not paying attention,

    narciso (79ddc3)

  75. “I just wanna know why that cowardly Palin hoochie wasn’t standing right there at good Pastor Terry’s.”

    Mr. Feets – Why were you not there many the barricades to defend our free speech rights? Pillr sales, new napkins, or towels or such?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  76. Dana – To be fair, Mr. Feets is all about the cowardly backhanded misogynistic swipes, and vegan pancakes.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  77. Crappyfeet is an eugenics fan.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  78. “Crappyfeet is an eugenics fan.”

    Mr. Feets is a stauch conservative fan of fetus killing and gay marriagings. I do not know about the eugenics part.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  79. Mr. daley you don’t know the half of it. I spended all morning fecklessly scouring the valley for guess what?

    A picnic table.

    And I didn’t even want the table.

    My new place has a long balcony but it’s not very wide. So I was thinking a couple simple red picnic table benches and maybe one of those end table bench thingers would do the trick.

    My L.A. friend P didn’t even know what a picnic table was.

    I tried Lowe’s.

    I tried Home Depot.

    I tried Universal Patio Furniture.

    I tried DIY.

    The only place I can find so far what has em is only open 9-5 M-F, and they wanna slap some kind of shiny varnish on em and charge $250 a bench.

    How is this even America?

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  80. “I spended all morning fecklessly scouring the valley for guess what?”

    The Dearborn free speech riot was yesterday.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  81. yesterday I was at work all day and then I came home and sautéed collard greens and watched True Blood

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  82. Maybe you need to shop more in Panorama city.

    narciso (79ddc3)

  83. hah Mr. narciso I went to a Superior in the working class hispanic not-ghetto the other night cause of I got lost finding my usual place coming from a different direction … the flier the nice man handed me said they were supposed to have mangoes 3 for $1, which is value

    but they had no mangoes

    also they did not have goya cassava chips

    But they had very tasty looking collard greens so I got some and called it good.

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  84. Mr. Feets – This sorry excuse of a country is more important than your shopping or TV watching is what I think. No more lame azz excuses!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  85. How can they not have mangoes/or cassava chips, and call themselves a respectable cheese shop, ahem,
    bodega.

    narciso (79ddc3)

  86. Mr. daley I’m pacing myself

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  87. Get a clue, guys.

    He went all the way from Florida to Michigan, just to piss off some Muslims.

    He ain’t the sharpest pencil in the box.

    Dave Surls (0bd3af)

  88. Yes, he has that Hamas supporting Imam, that he struck the deal with, last fall, in Orlando proper

    narciso (79ddc3)

  89. BTW palin is wrong koran burning is freedom of speech.

    Of course it is. How does that make her wrong? Did she ever deny it?

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  90. But collard greens are yum. At least steamed. I don’t think I’ve had them any other way so I can’t say, but probly sauteed is good too. Almost anything is good sauteed.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  91. olive oil and salt it’s really kinda wrong how good it tastes

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  92. If olive oil and salt, are wrong, I don’t want t o be right.

    narciso (79ddc3)


  93. As a Christian who wants to see more Muslims come to love Jesus, I wish Jones would catch a clue and stop antagonizing Muslims. Making people mad is NOT the way to make them want to listen to you. You’re supposed to be winning souls for Jesus, you idiot! That’s your primary duty on this earth! And YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!

    “Turning the other cheek” does not mean rolling over and playing dead.

    “Being patient and tolerant with others” does not mean accepting dhimmitude.

    Even Jesus saw there was a time and a place to demonstrate dissatisfaction with the actions of others, when he overturned the tables of the moneychangers. Jesus was perfect, and he did it, therefore there are times when it is the case for those who follow him, too.

    There is a difference between doing things to upset others because you’re angry and doing things to upset others to make it clear you’ve had enough of their bad behavior.

    Islam has made it blatantly clear that any actions on our part demonstrating patience and tolerance with their ill-behavior will be taken as weakness and unwillingness to confront them, not decency and compassion.

    We’ve shown our decency and compassion quite adequately, thank you.

    Now it’s time to kick some ass to show we’re quite capable of THAT, too.

    IgotBupkis, President, United Anarchist Society (c9dcd8)


  94. How is this even America?

    It’s not America, man, it’s California.

    Like, **DUH**.

    Smock Puppet (c9dcd8)

  95. Oh, and happy, try Wal Mart.

    Smock Puppet (c9dcd8)

  96. Walmart I will try maybe next weekend I guess

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  97. oh hey looks like walmart only has the kind where the benches are attached to the table

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  98. @10
    Yes, likely he will be murdered for “mere” free speech. He appears to be OK with that.

    The redneck swampjack narrative isn’t working for me any more. Instead, I’m beginning to see another member of the Army of Davids, conducting a fairly brilliant psyop at significant personal peril.

    phunctor

    Andrew Breitbart (29abd1)

  99. please note that “andrew breitbart” is actually a guy who has appeared before called phunctor.

    Aaron Worthing (73a7ea)

  100. I’m a life-long Dearborn resident…….my two cents is this:

    This is what happens when you allow unrestricted, unlimited, mass immigration of any one particular race/ethnicity (or in this case, religion/ideology) into your town, state or country.

    We are now Sharia Compliant BECAUSE of the sheer numbers of Mohammedans. It’s the immigration, stoopid.

    gsr (8c5f4d)

  101. “Mr. daley I’m pacing myself”

    Mr. Feets – It sounds like your are being very selfish.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  102. Ah yes, that was me and my cookie. Not that there’s anything wrong with being Andrew Breitbart.

    phunctor (29abd1)

  103. __________________________________________

    Thunderous boos from a crowd of about 700 protesters

    I wonder how many of them were of the Islamic faith, how many of them were merely political opportunists, particularly ass-backwards liberals?

    If Islam were a theology that could easily appeal to left-leaning biases (which actually is applicable to Christianity or Judaism), then the absurdity of the politics behind the clash of Islam and the Western World wouldn’t be so great or laughable. Or a variation of what is evident among the left today when it comes to Obama and Libya (or ongoing conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan), and the left’s MO back when Bush was in charge of military issues.

    Mark (411533)

  104. TO: Robin Munn
    RE: Heh

    “As a Christian who wants to see more Muslims come to love Jesus, I wish Jones would catch a clue and stop antagonizing Muslims. Making people mad is NOT the way to make them want to listen to you. You’re supposed to be winning souls for Jesus, you idiot! That’s your primary duty on this earth! And YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!” — Robin Munn

    If you’d lived in the time Christ walked the earth, you’d probably have said the same about John the Baptist, when he was calling-out Herod for marrying his brother’s wife.

    Would you have applauded when John was decapitated? That’s what the Islamists like to do, too.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [The Truth will out....]

    Chuck Pelto (73cfe4)

  105. It’s too late……we now discuss the tiny details of Islamic “culture” 24/7/365, after they attacked us on 9/1101. They are here now, in large and growing numbers.

    Islam is here; it’s too late.

    gsr (8c5f4d)

  106. he go to dearborn
    cuz he jonesin for pita
    chips and some hamas

    ColonelHaiku (cdd0f9)

  107. What she said about Terry Jones is wrong IMO.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  108. Crappyfeet needs to get his head out of Pawlenty’s rear.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  109. Jones true hetero
    see pics of Sila Sahin
    change name ‘Pastor Fuzz’

    TimesDisliker (72a891)

  110. Palin is hoochie

    I don’t care if it is sexist

    /Crappyfeet impersonation off.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  111. C’mon Doh, that’s nearly a haiku.

    Palin is hoochie
    I don’t care if it’s sexist
    feets persona off

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  112. feets you fail me now
    you’ll be sounding off about
    bristol and trig next

    ColonelHaiku (cdd0f9)

  113. triggy wiggy’s just a kid
    triggy wiggy never did
    nuffin to nobody
    not ever ever evers
    I wish him well in his endeavors

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  114. happy feet now run
    sappy birthed by sister of
    his happy pappy

    ColonelHaiku (cdd0f9)

  115. Take me out to the home store
    Take me out to the fresh market
    Buy me some throw pillows and fresh mangoes
    I don’t care about those cowardly snowbilly hoochies
    Because its all out ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  116. I am not very selfish really.

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  117. Happyfeets is one of the kindest, most nicest, most caring people I have met.

    African Cats is a really remarkable show.

    JD (d48c3b)

  118. I’am not very selfish really

    My mom got married to Mcfeely.

    I play with myself on my bed manufactured by sealy.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  119. Now to be on-topic why is bible burning free speech but not burning the koran.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  120. thanks Mr. JD back at you

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  121. also I think a lot of people didn’t understand that my comments at 61 et cetera were an ironic rejoinder to Mr. Crawford’s somewhat caustic commentings at 59 and 60

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  122. “also I think a lot of people didn’t understand that my comments at 61 et cetera were an ironic rejoinder to Mr. Crawford’s somewhat caustic commentings at 59 and 60″

    Left unsaid is that ironically Mr. Crawford’s comments did not mention Sarah Palin, while ironically your comment slurred her in an uncalled for and misogynistic manner. But please blame someone else for your failings.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  123. It sort of what the Muslims are doing, so it fits with the theme of the post. They blame Pastor Jones for their inability to control themselves. You blame Rob Crawford for your Palin spew.

    Suh-weet!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  124. I did not blame Mr. Crawford I take full responsibiltah

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  125. But Mr. Crawford decried those who do not stand with Pastor Terry as cowards, and it seemed appropriate to note that no less a conservative stalwart as our favorite tundra bunny media whore is included in that group.

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  126. “I did not blame Mr. Crawford I take full responsibiltah”

    See #124.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  127. “I did not blame Mr. Crawford I take full responsibiltah”

    See #124 and #128.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  128. that’s silly Mr. daley we already know Sarah Palin is a cowardly media whore from when she bailed on her flailing governorship to whore her trashy opportunistic ass out to Fox News but the arguments in this thread are just demonstrating that she’s a coward in terms of Mr. Crawfords’ brand of conservative orthodoxy as well

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  129. *Crawford’s* I mean

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  130. and if I may Mr. daley I think it is you who are being sexist. If a beleaguered George W. Bush had resigned his presidency in the face of adversity to become a reality tv bimbo, I think people yourself included would have adjudged him quite harshly

    why should Palin be held to a different standard?

    I don’t think she should be she made her bed and now she has to lie in it, albeit likely rather more coquettishly than Mr. President George W. Bush would lie in his.

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  131. Dude you use the word hootchie but we’re sexists?

    Can someone please tell crappfeet to go masturbate somewhere else.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  132. that’s not very inclusive Mr. Biden and you can see from the thread using your scrolling powers that I had completely dropped the subject but you and Mr. Colonel and friends revived the discussion, so I indulged you.

    I’m a giver.

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  133. also Mr. Biden I think Pawlenty is a pandering squack whose extraordinarily malleable positions betray a political cowardice what is on par with Meghan’s daddy’s – which, that is considerable

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  134. Reading the comments here, it sounds like nobody has the full story. Me and a friend went to the protest. We were a little late, partly due to the logistical difficulties of finding a place to park where our car wouldn’t be vandalized, and then walking a few blocks carrying a sign with the cartoon Mohammed picture on it. We got there a few minutes before the crowd charged across the street.
    The police wouldn’t let us past the outer barrier carrying the sign, so we stayed on the perimeter with it. I thought that was kind of funny, because there were more fanatics milling around there to see the sign and be pissed off, but that was fine with me. A couple of them walked back and forth behind us, trying to provoke us with comments, and one bumped my friend, but that’s as far as it went. Little did they know that it was lucky for them; both of us had concealed pistol licenses. (I guess those who can’t comprehend living under a constitution with free speech rights probably don’t grasp the concept of an armed citizenry, either.)
    The main crowd was across the street. It was something to see, a milling mob of screaming animal rage. There were steel police barriers on both sides of the street, and car traffic was traveling both ways (35mph). What Jones did sometime near the end of his speech was to walk down to the barrier on his side and ask the opposition to join him in the pledge of allegiance. That’s when they broke down the barrier on their side and charged across. The police stopped them at the far curb, and that’s when the riot squad trotted out.
    I think the whole thing was over by 6:30. I have some video, taken from the distance where we were standing.

    BR (715954)

  135. Testify! Brother Feets!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  136. Mr. daley I am on fire with the twoof! But also the day is getting away from me I have to go to the office and do some reports also I have to go back to the not-ghetto and get the ingredients for to make salad dressing. I threw out all my mayo in the move and I don’t have anything else I need either. Except for the salad. Salad I got.

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  137. here for you Mr. daley

    a not awful profile of Sarah Palin from today from our friends at National Soros Radio

    it’s window dressing I guess for in case she runs… you know how much they hate her

    I think this is the takeaway:

    “The one thing I can say about that is: Don’t piss the lady off,” he says.

    but is it just me or does this concluding sentence sound a bit catty?

    During those same years, Palin kept climbing the political ladder to become governor, a vice-presidential candidate and a star commentator on Fox News.

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  138. How did this thread return to happyfeet’s Palin stalking?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  139. I know right?

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  140. Grow the f**k up, happyfeet.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  141. “During those same years, Palin kept climbing the political ladder to become governor, a vice-presidential candidate and a star commentator on Fox News.”

    Mr. Feets – Ironic they manage to avoid the words hoochie or bimbo given how much they hate her.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  142. Grow the f**k up Crappyfeet.

    Palin Cultist meanie poopiehead!!Eleventyone!!

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  143. that is ironic Mr. daley if I had to guess I’d say it’s probably cause they’re a little antsy about continued government fundings

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  144. Crappyfeet is a sexist cur who needs to shut up.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  145. Amazing how Sarah Palin drives the libs mad. I’m sure this “feets” person spouts the feminazi line until someone in a skirt challenges his orthodoxy. Pathetic.

    Mek (d63e61)

  146. I am a staunch conservative Mr. Mek I like freedom and capitalisms and long walks on the beach and mangoes and I like drilling for oils and I hate silly regulations and I think the douchebag Coast Guard’s report on the oil spill was gay and they shouldn’t bepansy themselves like that.

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  147. Yeah, right, happyfeet. And you were just joking about Palin.

    Mek (04db65)

  148. Isn’t it ironic that he sounds alot like the far-left malaysian muslims in his misogyny.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  149. no I was dead serious about Palin

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  150. Yes because your a misogynistic crackhead.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  151. am not

    happyfeet (760ba3)

  152. IGotBupkis at #95 and Chuck Pelto at #106 have correctly pointed out that calling people out for their bad behavior will antagonize them, too. And what I wrote earlier did not make enough of a distinction between needful and needless antagonizing.

    What Jesus did with the moneychangers, and what John the Baptist did in calling out Herod: needful antagonizing. Pointing out the bad behavior of a subset of Muslims (riots that kill innocent people who had nothing to do with the alleged crime that caused the riots, killing rape victims for “adultery”, killing people for converting away from Islam…): also needful antagonizing. Though since not all Muslims do this (thankfully, there are plenty of moderate Muslims who never make the news), care should be taken not to imply that ALL Muslims act this way, lest you needlessly antagonize the innocent people who are currently supporting these behaviors by their silence, and whom you’re trying to persuade to stand up to the bad behavior of their co-religionists.

    And yes, some people (the ones doing these things) are going to be antagonized by calling them out like this. That’s kind of the point. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t condemn sin.

    However, there are some things that just needlessly antagonize LOTS of people, including the ones who are NOT engaged in bad behavior. Burning a Koran was one of those things. That will antagonize pretty much any Muslim who cares about his faith, including the moderates who don’t engage in terrorism, rioting, etc., and it will make it harder for them to ever listen to a Christian tell them about the love of Jesus. As a Christian himself, Pastor Jones is supposed to be winning souls for Jesus, and his actions have made that harder for him and everyone else.

    What my criticism of Jones boils down to, I think, is “Your overall strategy is correct, but your tactics suck, and are going to be counterproductive.”

    Robin Munn (cd9337)

  153. TO: All
    RE: Sooooo…..

    ….Osama is dead.

    I have to wonder whether the flags will be at half-staff in Dearborn, MI.

    Then again, we have the the threat we heard of last week.

    Nevertheless, we cannot take counsel of our fears.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival. -- Winston Churchill]

    Chuck Pelto (73cfe4)

  154. TO: IGotBupkis
    RE: Heh

    That will antagonize pretty much any Muslim who cares about his faith, including the moderates who don’t engage in terrorism, rioting, etc., and it will make it harder for them to ever listen to a Christian tell them about the love of Jesus. — IGotBupkis

    The only Muslims who will listen to the Gospel of Christ are those who don’t like Islam in the first place. And THEN, the other Muslims—if he should convert—will do their level best to kill the poor sod.

    Heck. They even kill their own daughters for GOING OUT with a Westerner.

    You’re missing all the evidence of reality. And that evidence points to the idea that there are NO MODERATE MUSLIMS. There are only VERY VIOLENT and NOT-SO-VIOLENT ones. And the latter can become the former at the drop of a hat[e]. You just don’t know where or when.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [The influence of the religion [Islam] paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world — Winston Churchill, 1899]

    Chuck Pelto (73cfe4)

  155. P.S. As for Pastor Jones’ techniques/tactics….

    ….again, you missed the point I made earlier.

    John the Baptist, didn’t just blast Herod. He also blasted the Sanhedrin. Christ did the same. Christ, as pointed out by others, even became violent, physically attacking people who were doing nothing more than carrying out their ‘business’.

    The ‘innocents’ amongst them, e.g., Joseph of Aramathea, Nicodemus, etc., didn’t take offense, but repented.

    Jones just wants to practice the same freedom of speech that we ALL should be able to practice. That includes burning ANY BOOK HE WISHES TO BURN. Just as YOU can burn a Bible.

    The Christians won’t take offense at their book being burned.

    The Muslims, on the other hand, are something completely different.

    Why is that?

    Chuck Pelto (73cfe4)

  156. TO; happyfeet and DohBiden
    RE: Girls! GIRLS!!!

    You’re BOTH ‘pretty’.

    Now….recess is over. Back inside.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [Kids......]

    Chuck Pelto (73cfe4)


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