Patterico's Pontifications

4/17/2011

Why Do Liberals Applaud Awful Behavior?

Filed under: General — Stranahan @ 1:05 pm



[Guest post by Lee Stranahan]

This is how far liberalism has sunk in Wisconsin.

 

I’m someone who doesn’t agree with Sarah Palin on most issues – but why is this good?

This isn’t debate. It’s not answering her arguments. He’s not explaining a difference in policy. It’s yelling. It’s making noise. It’s not discourse. It’s what drunk frat boys do when a song comes on that they don’t like. It’s what people in Detroit do to Charlie Sheen. It’s what kids do before an adult tells them to stop or go on a timeout.

But look at the comments from the  liberal blog Political Carnival

Progressives Rock!

this makes me happy – love these people

What a Beautiful Sound let’s see if FOX shows this or better yet shows this without any anti

No. No! This isn’t a beautiful sound – it’s the sound of idiots. Got that? IDIOTS YELLING.

I would hate this behavior for exactly the same reasons if I saw conservatives doing this to a speaker. So here’s my question…

When HAVE conservatives done this? Do they show up en masse at public rallies to keep Bernie Sanders or Michael Moore from speaking?

UPDATE: A couple of people have said this isn’t new behavior – while the phrase ‘there is nothing new under the sun’ is itself pretty old, I actually believe what we’ve seen recently – and this is an example –IS something new in American politics. A new variant, at least. This is a group that is partially organized by groups with direct connections to the President surrounding and shouting down a political rally. I don’t recall that under Bush or Clinton or Bush or Reagan.

UPDATE VIDEO I was wrong. There was clearly SOME intelligent liberal debate.

– Lee Stranahan

118 Responses to “Why Do Liberals Applaud Awful Behavior?”

  1. Well good for you.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  2. Well good for you.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  3. Lee, some of them stooped to calling in death threats, and mass emails to legislators, by that abyssmal standard they were almost genteel. But you should realize that has been s.o.p, for most of the Huffington Post’s tenure, as the examples of Shannyn Moore, geoffrey Dunn, and Malia Litman, to cite three examples attest.

    narciso (8a8b93)

  4. Sorry for the double post.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  5. Jim Treacher recently wrote: Liberals want conservatives to shut up; conservatives want liberals to keep talking.

    Jim S. (4c284e)

  6. Lee – This is not new behavior from the left. Look at conservative speakers shouted down on college campuses, health care town halls prepacked with SEIU goons in the summer of 2009 to prevent awkward questions and a plethora of other examples. There is a world of video out there awaiting you examination for confirmation of what I am saying.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  7. As blinkered as it seems, there is a twisted logic to this, it was an idea that Marcuse came up called
    ‘repressive tolerance’ yes I know it’s already an oxymoron:

    narciso (8a8b93)

  8. your, not you

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  9. Lee, this behavior is not about argument or even expression really. This is about acting out such that it makes the actor feel reinforced about his tribal membership in “Leftism” even if he has no clue what his own principles are.

    Its basically juvenile behavior.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  10. it’s instructive I think to go back and look at how the whorish NPR CBS Newsweek have reported instances where Team R has tried to prevent disruptive people from infiltrating their events

    here the Associated Press propaganda whores give their two cents

    here is National Soros Radio’s take

    Some would-be attendees at President Bush’s campaign events say they’re being asked to leave for wearing clothes or stickers that support the president’s opponent. At Sen. John Kerry’s rallies, the presidential hopeful ruefully acknowledges the presence of the opposition. NPR’s Nina Totenberg examines the rights of campaign event planners and attendees.

    happyfeet (a3410c)

  11. Look on the bright side. At least the Dems and their supporters aren’t murdering thousands of people who oppose them, like they did in the years after the Civil War.

    Maybe, they’re progressing…so to speak.

    Dave Surls (de16bb)

  12. That loud proud entitlement schtick gets old fast.

    Thanks for being the “voice in the wilderness…” sorry that position doesn’t pay well.
    Back when the phrase was coined I believe the prophets lived on bees and honey….

    I’ll pray you get some cash instead…

    SteveG (cc5dc9)

  13. _________________________________________

    Progressives Rock!

    Word usage is a clue that even a variety of liberals must suspect that deepdown there is something wrong or embarrassing about their ideological leanings. IOW, notice how so many of those on the left often favor the word “progressive” instead of liberal, or prefer labeling themselves “progressive” instead of “liberal.”

    this makes me happy – love these people

    Just as long as “progressives” don’t fall for the notion that they and their philosophy are somehow imbued with extra doses of compassion, generosity and wonderfulness — particularly compared with that of their socio-political opposites — I can deal with them.

    The following focuses on “religious” and “secular” instead of conservative and liberal, or Republican and Democrat. But religiosity and conservatism tend to go hand in hand, while secularism and liberalism go hand in hand too.

    Slate.com, November 2008:

    In one of [psychologists Ara Norenzayan’s and Azim Shariff’s] own studies [reviewed in Science magazine], they primed half the participants with a spirituality-themed word jumble (including the words divine and God) and gave the other half the same task with nonspiritual words. Then, they gave all the participants $10 each and told them that they could either keep it or share their cash reward with another (anonymous) subject.

    Ultimately, the spiritual-jumble group parted with more than twice as much money as the control. Norenzayan and Shariff suggest that this lopsided outcome is the result of an evolutionary imperative to care about one’s reputation. If you think about God, you believe someone is watching. This argument is bolstered by other research that they review showing that people are more generous and less likely to cheat when others are around. More surprisingly, people also behave better when exposed to posters with eyes on them.

    Maybe, then, religious people are nicer because they believe that they are never alone. If so, you would expect to find the positive influence of religion outside the laboratory. And, indeed, there is evidence within the United States for a correlation between religion and what might broadly be called “niceness.”

    In Gross National Happiness, Arthur Brooks notes that atheists are less charitable than their God-fearing counterparts: They donate less blood, for example, and are less likely to offer change to homeless people on the street. Since giving to charity makes one happy, Brooks speculates that this could be one reason why atheists are so miserable.

    In a 2004 study, twice as many religious people say that they are very happy with their lives, while the secular are twice as likely to say that they feel like failures.

    Mark (411533)

  14. Mr. Stranahan,

    Actually, the union supporters seeem to act like the Nazi’s seen in the movie Cabaret.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068327/

    The tactic wasa to bust up meetings and rallies of the opposition party and scare opponents.

    Airborne All The Way

    Airborne All The Way (0cff66)

  15. One great idea that the Bush administration had was free speech zones.

    Places where lefties can go, scream, holler, and toss molotov cocktails at each other, without disrupting the activities of normal people is a great idea.

    Just add a representative from the government to the free speech zones, so that the lefties will be able to peacefully petition for a redress of grievances (after they run out of molotovs), and it’s a perfect idea.

    Dave Surls (de16bb)

  16. These are the same weenies who screamed for almost two months at the capitol that Governor Walker had to listen to them, that he was obligated to listen to them, and because they mistakenly assumed he had ignored them (not backing down, rolling over to their will), they rose in fury.

    Ironically, in their sanctimonious folly, they flat-out refused to even let Palin’s voice be heard. They selfishly took the right away from others to hear and decide for themselves and that’s because they are not about freedom for all. When you strip away all the crudity and screaming, one is left with little more than imbecilic hypocrites.

    This absolutely not what democracy looks like.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  17. It’s the people’s republic of Madison, as MD keeps reminding us, this is what they think democracy looks like.

    narciso (8a8b93)

  18. Goddamn union thugs.

    Do the private sector unions act like this?

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  19. This is not a new phenomenon. It’s been done and done. What’s new is it’s being publicized, mainly thanks to the internet. Eventually it will make it to non-Fox TV. (After the 2012 election, of course.)

    AMartel (88c646)

  20. I very much appreciated the teacher’s union protesting in Springfield last June with the chant “raise our taxes” so that its members could get their anticipated raises, while the employment situation for much of the rest of the state remained bleak and the fiscal situation of the state looks terminal.

    The problem is, on the last day of the lame duck session, the cowardly bastages in our state legislature did in fact raise personal income tax rates by 67%. I mistakenly thought the state had a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Silly me.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  21. It’s been a tactic for homosexual activists for quite some time. When Clinton was first running for president, they disrupted his events. It only stopped when he appeased them by promising to end the ban on gays in the military during his first week in office by signing an executive order. Instead, they got DADT.

    Anon Y. Mous (48a3df)

  22. Loudly drowning out a very well spoken 14 year old girl platform speaker (as shown on an Althouse video) and calling her a KOCH-sucker showed great courage and maturity by the leftist mob, I thought. Some of these people are teachers? Of our youth?

    I listened to Palin’s speech over a CBS online feed. I can almost guarantee that what she actually said about union members in general and teachers in specific would have surprised many within the rude mob had they actually allowed themselves to hear what she was saying. They love to assure each other that she’s hatey and racist and stupid and extreme but refuse to let her be heard. You’d think that if she were all of those things the left would want to world to witness it, be eager to show proof of it, rather than drown her out with drums and cowbells. The Wisconsin protesters are destroying themselves and their “cause” in front of the nation.

    elissa (69a286)

  23. Hey narciso, thanks for the shout out.

    Notice the sign at 0:29, “Wisconsin drinks beer, not tea.” That is the “let’s go do something exciting but not really think about it” crowd.

    My biased thought is that some people think there is objective right and wrong and have some desire to see right triumph, as long as it doesn’t get in their own way too much. Then there are others who see things as “my/our” way vs. “their” way. the second group just care about winning. if you can win by merely shouting down your opponent, great, because if you really have to play the game, you might lose.

    If it is worse, perhaps it is because of the contribution of the leftist coalitions, the descendents of SDS, ACORN, SEIU, etc., and david Horowitz and stanley kurtz are right, we have a marxist in “moderate liberal democratr” clothing as president. This kind of crew looks just like what you’d expect froma a bunch of Clive-Piven operatives, yes??

    I did like Palin’s references to Badger women’s hockey- 4th NCAA title in 6 years (and one of the years they lost a bunch of players and their tremendous coach, Mark Johnson, were off at the Olympics).

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  24. When HAVE conservatives done this? Do they show up en masse at public rallies to keep Bernie Sanders or Michael Moore from speaking?

    There’s the Patriot Guard Riders, who show up at military funerals to stop any protesters from disrupting the event. “Any protesters” currently means “the Westboro Baptish Church a**holes”, because they’re the only ones currently pulling such tactics, but the Patriot Guard Riders specifically say that they’re apolitical and would stop any protesters trying to disrupt the funeral, no matter who the protesters are.

    As far as I know, that’s the closest you’ll find on the conservative side of things to trying to shut down debate of any kind, and it’s a “take it elsewhere, this isn’t the place” kind of thing.

    Robin Munn (cd9337)

  25. Your an hypocrite if you think the WBC deserves free speech but not anyone else.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  26. In the name of the Holy First Amendment, we put up with entirely too much in the name of “Protest”, and it has to stop. I would really like to know where in the phrase “the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” behavior like setting fire to things, throwing noxious liquids at people, and making threats fits.

    I’m for a broad interpretation of the First Amendment, but I don’t see why we can’t arrest people who throw things. If we can outlaw smoking in parks, I see no reason to tolerate idiots setting fire to objects much larger than a cigar. Make them, at a minimum, get a permit. Come up with good, reasonable, rules about public access, and about permitted volumes for amplifiers, and enforce them. I don’t care it it’s PETA throwing symbolic blood at fur-wearing women or Pro-Lifers throwing symbolic blood at abortionists, They all should be arrested for assault.

    As for why the Left does this, and if the Right ever follow suit;

    The Left does this when it is motivated by emotion rather than reason. For a long time the liberal establishment has controlled the terms and limits of debate, and it has made them sloppy (the Conservatives went through the same thing when they were losing dominance at the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century). IF the Right does this (and I haven’t seen it, and don’t much trust Media reports on the subject) then it would be on subjects where they have no argument, only a large ball of emotion. Abortion, maybe.

    C. S. P. Schofield (8b1968)

  27. By the way, is there a transcript of Palin’s Madison speech available anywhere? I prefer to read transcripts of speeches rather than watch video when I can, because reading is much faster than listening. And I’m a visual learner, so I absorb the information better in written form anyway. I tried a quick Google search yesterday but turned up nothing. Anyone know of a transcript?

    Robin Munn (cd9337)

  28. Lee, this may be new at outdoor political rallies, though I doubt it, but it’s very very old hat on university campuses. Ask David Horowitz, or Michelle Malkin, or John Yoo, or any Israeli who has attempted to speak on campus. At least Palin was able to speak, and was heard at least by those close to her and by whoever made the video; that’s not always the case.

    For another example, look at what happens when neo-nazis or the KKK hold rallies; the counter-demonstrations they attract are almost always violent thugs who must be restrained by the police or they’d commit murder. Note that the nazis never get arrested; their opponents often do. That’s because neo-Nazis nowadays are usually harmless kooks, while their leftist counterparts are very far from harmless. (For that matter, even back when Western pro-Nazis were neither neo nor harmless, their opponents were often far worse, e.g. the “Battle of Cable Street”.)

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  29. In case it’s not clear: I approve of the Patriot Guard Riders’ activities. I would oppose anyone trying to completely silence the Westboro Baptist Church — even utterly misguided opinions should be allowed to be spoken, because otherwise you have a major problem of “who decides what’s misguided or not?”. But I fully approve of the Patriot Guard Riders saying “a funeral, especially a funeral of someone who gave his/her life serving our country, is the wrong place for political protest of any kind. Take it elsewhere.”

    Robin Munn (cd9337)

  30. Yes, it is an awful tactic to insult and namecall one’s political opponents. I couldn’t agree more. Why, only people who are filled with hatred and fear do that kind of thing.

    Simon Jester (336a97)

  31. Lee writes: “This isn’t debate. It’s not answering her arguments.”
    Of course it isn’t. Palin had no intention of inviting her critics up to debate her. Palin doesn’t do debate. She does rallies, fundraisers and photo ops. Her exposure to critics is very tightly controlled, because she and her handlers know she’s just not up to debate.
    Why is Lee trying to portray a rally on public property as a “debate?” It’s not. Protest, including loud chanting, has a long, proud history in American, and is different from the long tradition of debate.
    To be sure, there is also a history of civility, one in which legitimate representatives of a point of view should be allowed the public space to present their views without having to compete with chanting protesters.
    The debate here, then, should be over the degree to which Palin deserves a public forum unobstructed by loud critics.
    I’m sure we all agree that should, for example, Moktada al Sadr demand a permit to speak on the Capitol steps that it would be well within the span of healthy democracy to show up and chant him down.
    I’m not saying Palin is the equivalent of al Sadr. I merely use him as an example to illustrate the point that, even in a democracy that respects free speech rights, not every view deserves an unobstructed public forum.
    In the video Lee links, the protestors’ rights to be heard are no less important than Palin’s.
    Lastly, this doesn’t occur often at liberal rallies mainly because the number of conservatives willing to counterprotest in any form is relatively tiny. Even if they do yell and scream, they have little impact…

    Big Median (2b1825)

  32. I used to live in Topeka. I knew about Phelps 20 years ago. I’d argue that in the case of Phelps, the ‘event’ is the funerals — and Phelps shows up to disrupt.

    The folks you are talking about are disrupter disrupters.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  33. Big Median, you know how much of a clown you look, when you post that drivel on a thread about leftwing protestors trying to shout down someone.

    Or maybe you are just clueless…

    SPQR (26be8b)

  34. Sorry, Lee, this isn’t new at all. When I was a liberal hippy wannabe in the late 60s, one on the things that bothered me about my “comrades” was their propensity to shout down opponents [yeah, I was spectacularly naive – still am, sometimes]. They were no more interested in debate in the 60s than they are now. The comment by Big Median proves my point. From university lecture halls to public squares, the left remains fascist.

    Walter Cronanty (d1ac67)

  35. Big Median,
    Puh-lease, spare us the condescension on who will or will not do debates, what content deserves to be heard, and that the real issue is not how loud the libs are, but that the conservatives are too cowardly to show up in enough numbers to conter-protest a liberal rally.

    Besides, you seem smart enough to know that when a person is dependent on teleprompters, they can’t be real good at debates- unless it’s a pseudo-debate where the questions are known ahead of time and a moderator limits the direct interaction.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  36. “Protest, including loud chanting, has a long, proud history in American…”

    A bunch of nitwit college kids chanting “Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh, NFL is gonna win!” doesn’t exactly cause my heart to swell with pride.

    It just verifies that college kids are young and foolish.

    And, that’s nothing to be proud of.

    Dave Surls (de16bb)

  37. Big median drops by to call names, scream racism, etc … It would not know good faith discussion if it bit him in the ding ding.

    Lee – look at the videos from Oregon of the civil leftists at the TEA party rally.

    JD (306f5d)

  38. “By the way, is there a transcript of Palin’s Madison speech available anywhere?”

    Yup.

    http://www.motivationtruth.com/2011/04/governor-palin-video-and-transcript-of.html

    Dave Surls (de16bb)

  39. Whoops, I think I meant NLF is gonna win, as opposed to NFL. Slightly different organizations.

    Dave Surls (de16bb)

  40. Lee, I’m curious as to what you think is the reason that conservatives do not behave this way? Is it that we’re always on our best behavior, we don’t wish to sink to the level of our opponents, we don’t want to give them an opportunity to make justified accusations, or is it simply because of our unwavering love and respect for the freedom we have in our country to debate any issue?

    Dana (4eca6e)

  41. At least most of the protesters during the golden age of protest (the 60’s) were kids/young adults. This demographic throughout history has always said and done stupid things and badly misunderstood how important they are and how narrow their worldview is at that age. The protesters in Madison, though, are mostly OLD. Old enough to know better and old enough to have gained some perspective on life and community. This is what most disturbs me about their hostile and utterly uncivil behavior. Probably a few of them grew up in the protest movement but I daresay most of them are not old hippies reliving their glory days. Yet, when the union bigs rile them up, they apparently jump right on the wagon and see absolutely nothing wrong with acting this way.

    elissa (69a286)

  42. They aren’t liberals. They are Fascists.

    Rachelle (65c6bb)

  43. Exactly and the gracies[from UFC fame are making a name for themselves in america…….They are the only brazilians I’am a fan of.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  44. I might not be vocal about it but I like them.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  45. “That is the “let’s go do something exciting but not really think about it” crowd.”

    MD in Philly – Didn’t they invent ice sitting contests in Madison, or am I mistaken?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  46. “Yet, when the union bigs rile them up, they apparently jump right on the wagon and see absolutely nothing wrong with acting this way.”

    elissa – It does not take union bigs to rile them up. Pop on down to my People’s Republic for a city meeting and watch them shout down public commenters. Periodic threats of ejection temporarily calm them down.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  47. daley–

    So is it just hopeless then? Is this the way we and our children and their children are going to live? Is this America? How does social civility get reclaimed once it has been lost?

    elissa (69a286)

  48. ____________________________________________

    They aren’t liberals. They are Fascists.

    It’s interesting how a variety of (or actually most) people are so unconsciously affected by the symbolic trappings and propagandist history of words that “fascist” — generally equated with the far right — connotes something meaner or crueler than “communist,” which is pretty much equated with the far left. That’s a prime reason that liberals, naturally, but also those who are centrist and conservative may more easily fall for the stereotype that ultra-liberalism is a tad bit less horrible than ultra-conservatism. In reality, they’re one and the same, with left-leaning sentiments actually and ironically enough being rooted in a darker side of human nature. IOW, liberalism is born bad.

    Reason.com, December 2006:

    The people who give the least are the young, especially young liberals. [Public policy professor Arthur C.] Brooks writes that “young liberals — perhaps the most vocally dissatisfied political constituency in America today — are one of the least generous demographic groups out there. In 2004, self-described liberals younger than thirty belonged to one-third fewer organizations in their communities than young conservatives. In 2002, they were 12 percent less likely to give money to charities, and one-third less likely to give blood.”

    Liberals, he says, give less than conservatives because of religion, attitudes about government, structure of families, and earned income. The families point is driven home by other results from Brooks.

    He writes that young liberals are less likely do nice things for their nearest and dearest, too. Compared with young conservatives, “a lower percentage said they would prefer to suffer than let a loved one suffer, that they are not happy unless the loved one is happy, or that they would sacrifice their own wishes for those they love.”

    Mark (411533)

  49. What happened to the opinion adopted by the left in 2006 that because they won, conservatives should just sit down and shut up? Isn’t it odd how that attitude, on their part, doesn’t apply after the 2010 elections?

    But you see, in Wisconsin, the left didn’t think it could possible lose a state Supreme Court seat because the unions were dumping millions of $$ into the election, the Democratic Socialists of America were there to help organize the protests against Walker and Prosser. What could go wrong?

    They played their hand, and the nation watched as they squated inside their beautiful, and historic, state capital, trashing it like it was a city dump. The nation watched as one profane sign after another showed up. The nation watched as Michael Moore-on, Susan Sarandon and Richard Trumka gave their “Long Live Socialism” (why is it that Socialists never support Socialism for themselves?)speeches. And the people of Wisconsin, who had elected Scott Walker to clean up their state’s finances, also watched, albeit quietly.

    But those quiet Wisconsinites, who themselves are struggling to keep their heads about water in a bad economic period, went to the polls and back Walker and Justice Prosser.

    Personally, I want the unionistas to continue with their radical ways. I want them screaming, yelling profanities in front of children, carrying XXX rated signs. I want these public sector workers (AFSCME unionistas, all) to continue to show what real greed looks like as they demand more and more largess from state coffers in states that are facing bankruptcy. Because the more they show their true colors, the less support they will get from the average American who doesn’t have such job security in the private sector.

    The more the public sector unionistas act like petulant children, the less clout they will have. And they are basically signing their names to their own death warrant as union states wake up and realize that they are losing businesses, and taxpayers, to right-to-work states.

    retire05 (2d538e)

  50. “So is it just hopeless then? Is this the way we and our children and their children are going to live? Is this America? How does social civility get reclaimed once it has been lost?” – Elissa
    You only reclaim social civility when parents demand it of their children, who then grow up giving it, demanding it of their children, and refusing to listen/pay attention to those who refuse to conduct themselves in a civil manner. The people in Madison believe that acting in the manner that they did will benefit them in some way. If people look on them with disgust and their behavior is detrimental to them, then they will modify their behavior. If they are successful, social civility will go the way of the horse and buggy.

    Walter Cronanty (d1ac67)

  51. A thought; putatively Liberal thugs are used to being protected from the natural consequences of their actions by Progressive Intellectuals. As a result, they don’t see any need to be reasonably civil, because they don’t believe that anyone can or will bring them to book.

    “Barbarians are more polite than civilized men, as a rule, because civilized men don’t have to worry about getting their skulls staved in.” – Robert E. Howard

    In my lifetime Liberal Intellectuals have sneered at concepts like Honor and Respectability. This attitude had been communicated to their pet Apes. Shocking them into some semblance of manners should not even require violating their Civil Rights. It could easily be enough to insist that the Law applies to their behavior as well as the behavior of people they don’t like.

    C. S. P. Schofield (8b1968)

  52. Kooks like Krugman are mow decrying the calls for civility.

    JD (318f81)

  53. Mow = now

    JD (318f81)

  54. Is this America?
    Comment by elissa

    Not exactly, which is both good and bad.
    This is the People’s Republic of Madison. Many people live there because it is the closest thing you can find to the 1960’s east of Berkeley. Berkeley has better weather so probably wins out.
    So this is not really America, it is a concentration of political leftists and others who wish justification to live whatever way they want.

    But in some ways leftists from the 60’s, big union leaders, many politicians, media people, some business and financial leaders, all want something other than common sense, fair play, rule of law, and personal responsibility.

    What is worse:
    1. These folk trying to disrupt the speech of a political opponent.
    2. Nancy Pelosi saying, “You’ll have to find out what is in the bill after we pass it”.
    3. National news agencies refusing to pursue investigation of Obama’s connections with Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, and Resco (spelling- the felon who helped Obama get his house)
    4. People who pushed the “Bush lied” nonsense.

    There is plenty self-centered deceit all around.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  55. Conservatives have a long history of shutting down free speech, from the McCarthy Red Scare hearings to the Hollywood 10, purges of left-wing professors from U.S. universities and, in present day, the banning of U.S. critics from Cuba, Iran and other countries from even entering the U.S. to give speeches.
    McCarthy and McCarthyism are even enjoying a resurgence of support among conservatives who insist he was right to carry out a witch hunt that very effectively silenced the left wing in America. And the attempt to label Obama a communist and witch hunts against people like Van Jones are present day examples of how conservative zealots try to shut down people they disagree with.
    No such witch hunt was ever at any time in U.S. history, undertaken by the left or liberals. Conservatives have never been purged from any institution in America: not the media, not Hollywood, not the school system. Yet left wing advocates have been purged from the movie business, academia and the media. That’s the fact, like it or not.
    As for civility, there is certainly none of it here on this blog. Expletives, epithets and contumely are by far the most popular theme of comments here, including frequent references to gay sex and pedophilia. The idea that these commenters are suddenly offended by incivility at a political rally lacks any credibility.
    Though Lee does at least make a separate point, which is that it’s rare for conservatives to shout down a liberal at a rally. But as I pointed out, conservatives rarely show at rallies of any kind — their own or their opponents, so it is of course far less likely that they would be involved in shouting down a liberal or left wing speaker.
    They prefer to raise money, buy media and “network” with business interests. That’s one reason they have tended to succeed where liberals have failed politically. Turns out, the kind of public protests liberals are so fond of aren’t nearly as effective as the right-wing noise machine of talkradio, blogs, Fox News and the WSJ.

    Big Median (2f532a)

  56. To continue the analogy, yesterday was like a Wolverine raid into occupied territory, with Breitbart and Palin, it’s actually quite pathetic
    how little resistance they put up, even in Kloppenberg’s home base.

    narciso (8a8b93)

  57. I have seldom seen a nickname that applies better to the kind of nonsense spouted than by “BM.”

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  58. Big median buggers goats. Good Allah, it just makes shlt up, out of whole cloth.

    JD (318f81)

  59. I’m sure we all agree that should, for example, Moktada al Sadr demand a permit to speak on the Capitol steps that it would be well within the span of healthy democracy to show up and chant him down.

    So, where were the leftists to chant down Ahmadinejad when he spoke at a college campus?

    Where were the conservatives chanting him down?

    It’s not healthy to shout down your political opponent. And a “debate” in the sense of “exchange of ideas” doesn’t have to take place with both sides on the stage together. One side can have its say one day, and the other side another day. That’s what Lee meant by “debate”.

    What a blithering idiot you are, Big Median.

    Some chump (e84e27)

  60. Big Median

    It didn’t take any “witch hunt” to find Van Jones, only his own comments.

    “Purges of left- wing professors at US universities”? Whoever was supposed to do that sure did a lousy job of it. I’d be interested to know how many universities had faculty of at least 25% Republican.

    As for civility, there is certainly none of it here on this blog.
    No one is keeping you here.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  61. –The idea that these commenters are suddenly offended by incivility at a political rally lacks any credibility–

    Yes, the similarity between 30 second snark posted onto a blog and mass public incivility, disruption, and personal verbal attacks at a political rally are immediately obvious.

    elissa (69a286)

  62. Mr. Stranahan ,
    Respectfully, you may have only been watching the left shilling media at the time and did not see so much of this but it has been common. During the California recall there was video of union goons running across a busy street to attack a man holding a pro-recall sign. They put him in a wheel chair and were only stopped because security guards at the hotel where they were having their event called the police.

    When Clinton was President he not only used union goons but bussed in Americorp taxpayer paid “volunteers” to shill at his rallies and disrupt his opponents events. Even Hitlers SA brownshirts were not paid by taxpayer money. Union goons, Americorp thugs, hired homeless, and even law enforcement agencies and secret service were used and directed by the Clinton Whitehouse against opponents, critics, or even innocent victims.

    This is NOT new and not even much more blatant, just harder to hide. I suspect you may be more open to seeing it now as well.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  63. Left wing professors being purged from universities? Interesting, considering the majority of professors at American universities are, liberal.

    Hollywood is clearly dominated by liberals – this is common knowledge and precisely why it became necessary to provide those conservatives in Hollywood to have an place where they could speak up and without fear of being blacklisted.

    As I recall, we just had an Iranian critic come to the United States and speak at Columbia, one of our prestigious universities. And did he criticize? You betcha!

    Dana (4eca6e)

  64. Big Median, your comments are essentially dishonest for several reasons.

    First of all, the Communist “witchunt” ( in quotes because there actually were communists unlike witches ) were not “Conservative” in origin. Liberal Democrats participated in expelling communists from their party as well as other institutions.

    Secondly, you lump together people criticizing others’ speech with the few incidents of shouting down. That kind of dishonesty is obviously intentional on your part. That’s because you can’t stand hearing arguments against your political preferences – and makes you more similar to these brownshirts shouting people down.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  65. “…purges of Left Wing professors from … Universities…”

    Yes, it’s just terrible how they hounded Marcuse and others….
    Oh wait, they weren’t Left Wing…
    They were bloody communists,
    members of the CPUSA, who owed their allegiance to the COMINTERN, and not to the U.S. of A.
    And most of them taught on, indoctrinating the little darlings who have grown up to be Big Median,
    until they were not just fools, but doddering fools. and finally retired – and quite a few on pensions financed by the taxpayers whom they despised.

    AD-RtR/OS! (0d97a0)

  66. “They prefer to raise money, buy media”

    BM: I would just like to know which media were being bought by the conservatives. Other than Fox, it doesn’t appear to be any of them. Names please.

    PatAZ (d09837)

  67. “Conservatives have a long history of shutting down free speech, from the McCarthy Red Scare hearings to the Hollywood 10″

    Baloney.

    The McCarthy hearings and the HCUA hearings gave commies and commie sympathizers a CHANCE to speak, only they refused to do so (because they didn’t want anyone to find out exactly what they were up to). That’s why some people called up in front of HCUA ended up going to jail for contempt. They refused to speak.

    OTOH, the Truman administration, during the same period, initiated a series of criminal prosecutions against CPUSA members and dozens of them were sent to prison just for what they said or thought.

    Senator McCarthy was just trying to boot communists out of government jobs (good), President Truman was throwing private citizens in jail for what they were saying or just because they belonged to the CPUSA (not so good, except I have zero sympathy for communists, so I’m not going to get too worked up about it).

    YOUR side is the side that shuts down free speech, either by using the law to jail people who say stuff libby wibbies don’t like, or by screaming and yelling, so that no one can hear what someone is saying at a speech.

    The right wing almost never does that. Lefties do it constantly. And, that’s how it’s pretty much how it’s always been.

    Dave Surls (de16bb)

  68. …not the school system

    Clearly you do not know what you are talking about.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  69. Dana, this one is either supremely ignorant or intentionally dishonest. The usual dilemma.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  70. And the last time the government tried to jail people just for expressing an opinion was during the Vietnam War, when the liberal Democrats (LBJ with professional traitor, Ramsey Clark as his point man) had people who were urging non-cooperation with the Draft tried and convicted under provisions of the Selective Service Act (Selective Slavery Act is more like it).

    It isn’t right wingers who try and suppress free speech…it’s left wingers who do that.

    Dave Surls (de16bb)

  71. Is there a functional difference, SPQR, in the result, whether you have a Katie Couric and Brian Williams who stated with a straight face, that father’s rights existed in Cuba, and Walt Myers
    who spied for the Cuban govt

    narciso (8a8b93)

  72. Don’t forget Obama’s “truth squads” who said they would go after anyone who “lied” about Obama during the campaign.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  73. The record is clear: no one has ever been purged from any government or private job for being conservative. yet a long list have been purged or formally blacklisted for being too left wing. That’s the historical fact, regardless of how many times you deny it.

    Big Median (2f532a)

  74. The record is clear, Big Median. Your ignorance of the real history of the anti-communist era is total.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  75. Van Jones openly admitted to being a communist and a truther.

    The Hollywood 10 were communists. They went to prison because they refused to testify, on the advice of their lawyers, who were paid by the CPUSA, and acting under orders directly from Moscow.

    For that matter, name one innocent person whom McCarthy “persecuted”. As far as I know every individual named by his committee, or by the HUAC (founded, ironically, by Soviet spy Dickstein), was in fact a member of the CPUSA.

    But nobody shouted these people down; nobody prevented them from speaking. They were quite properly loathed by all decent human beings, and denied employment like the scum they were, but they were free to speak to anyone willing to listen.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  76. Big median likes making shlt up. And calling people racist. And being a lying douchenozzle. And buggering goats.

    JD (318f81)

  77. Oh, but that’s different, SPQR.
    It’s OK to hound an ID kook out of the academy.
    Of course, it must have left some with a bad taste in their mouths since he had an Hispanic name, and would otherwise be a protected minority.

    AD-RtR/OS! (0d97a0)

  78. “The record is clear:”

    Yeah it is, the record clearly shows that you’re a big fat liar.

    Dave Surls (de16bb)

  79. ___________________________________________

    McCarthy and McCarthyism are even enjoying a resurgence of support among conservatives who insist he was right to carry out a witch hunt that very effectively silenced the left wing in America.

    And you don’t see the irony that it’s conservatives — far, far more than liberals — who are the ones up in arms about the political-correct nonsense that makes people hesitant about criticizing Islamo-fascism (ie, ultra-rightism)?

    The level of just how absurd this has become? See the excerpt below.

    You don’t see the irony that it’s leftists — not rightists — who in one recent example of the absurdity of “progressivism,” said kids in a school in Seattle should call “Easter eggs” “Spring spheres”?

    Let’s grant you the assumption that rightism, and its effect on free speech and behavior — was over the top in America over 50 years ago. Whether I agree or disagree with that claim, I won’t even argue about it. But you do have to admit that today — in 2011 — it’s now the left that deserves to be scorned for its extremism and foolishness.

    hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/Fort_Hood/FortHoodReport.pdf

    One of the officers who reported [US Army Major Nidal Malik] Hasan to superiors opined that Hasan was permitted to remain in service because of “political correctness” and ignorance of religious practices. That officer added that he believed that concern about potential discrimination complaints stopped some individuals from challenging Hasan. We are concerned that exactly such worries about “political correctness” inhibited Hasan’s superiors and colleagues who were deeply troubled by his behavior from taking the actions against him that could have prevented the attack at Fort Hood.

    Liberalism in the context of decades ago may have represented less of an extremist tilt on the overall socio-political spectrum. But not today. That’s why “progressives” in the early 21st century should understandably feel embarrassed about their liberalism—-and that doesn’t even pertain to how left-leaning biases ironically enough don’t necessarily make a person truly humane, generous and compassionate.

    Mark (411533)

  80. BM lives in an alternate reality, where conservatives control every institution and he is bravely fighting oppression by posting non-sequiturs and baldfaced lies on an internet blog.

    Let us have a round of applause for this courageous freedom fighter.

    A Balrog of Morgoth (75def3)

  81. “…yet a long list have been purged or formally blacklisted for being too left wing.”

    Boo hoo.

    Guess what? If I find out you’re a communist, you ain’t working for me either.

    You can spew Marxist crap ’til it comes out your ears for all I care, but that don’t mean I have to give you a paycheck.

    Dave Surls (de16bb)

  82. “The record is clear: no one has ever been purged from any government or private job for being conservative. yet a long list have been purged or formally blacklisted for being too left wing.”

    Big Median – Let’s have a look at that long list you keep talking about.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  83. Doubt BM really buggers goats.

    Goats are smart enough to vacate the premesis upon smelling the garbage that spews from mouths such as his.

    Might be able to hook up with one of those Wisconsin teachers that looked like they bathed annually.

    the bhead (a31060)

  84. Hey, daley, you know that BM is just a typical troll. No big deal; the goal is to get people all stirred up and then run away.

    There was some character you were fencing with a while ago, and I admired how you made (or tried to make) the person stick to the topic and back up statements.

    That approach is like sunlight to vampires.

    Simon Jester (491b9e)

  85. Islam is not ultra-right so please stop that.

    Other than that good point mark.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  86. “That approach is like sunlight to vampires.”

    Simon Jester – Thanks. Facts to Big Median are like kryptonite to Superman.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  87. Islam is not ultra-right so please stop that.
    Other than that good point mark.

    For that matter, fascism is not ultra-right. Fascism is a Marxist heresy, and thus is a paid-up member of the political left. Benito Mussolini was one of Europe’s leading socialist intellectuals until WW1 broke out and he decided to support Italy. Fascism was the result of his reconciliation of socialism with nationalism; the fasces was the symbol of the union movement.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  88. Exactly fascism is and was always part of the left which is why the kuomintang disavowed fascism.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  89. @#76- “The record is clear: no one has ever been purged from any government or private job for being conservative. yet a long list have been purged or formally blacklisted for being too left wing. That’s the historical fact, regardless of how many times you deny it.”

    Of course, conservatives can rise to the occasion from time to time and be quite savvy at purging the fanatics and extremists from their own movement. The banishments of Rand and the Birchers by Buckley, Chambers, etc., comes to mind. That shakeout solidified and seeded their movement, in the twilight of the HUAC/blacklist days. And they reaped what was sewn by 1980. Another purge is overdue, post-Reagan, as well. You know who they are. Simply peruse the musings of a few of the muddled, misguided reactionaries for a taste of what passes for conservative stew these days. Their ‘movement’ is sorely in need of another Buckley. The capacity to disagree without being disagreeable can be charmingly persuasive- or at least present a POV with engaging clarity. His kind of honest opposition was formidable- and is missed in the public discourse these days. Buckley once wrote with wry wit that he didn’t know anyone ‘smarter than himself.’ As far as conservatism itself goes, he may very well have been ‘right':

    “Conservatives pride themselves on resisting change, which is as it should be. But intelligent deference to tradition and stability can evolve into intellectual sloth and moral fanaticism, as when conservatives simply decline to look up from dogma because the effort to raise their heads and reconsider is too great.”- William F. Buckley, Jr.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  90. And everyone knows that DCSCA is the very arbiter of fair mindness and clarity of thought. The Walter Mitty of Patterico’s has spoken!

    Simon Jester (c62e4f)

  91. Hey, daley? JD? What were the kinds of experiences that this fella has claimed in the past?

    Simon Jester (c62e4f)

  92. ________________________________________

    Islam is not ultra-right so please stop that.

    I know that labels and labeling can be an oversimplification or generalization, but that’s the way the average person deals with things. However, Islam does have some crucial fundamentalist aspects that align closer with ultra-conservatism than ultra-liberalism. For example, Islamo-fascists will gladly chop off the head of a gay dude or philandering female, while ultra-liberals will claim (emphasizing the word “claim”) they can tolerate such deviation.

    But overall, the further one goes to the right on the socio-political spectrum, the closer one will end up on the ultra-liberal side. That may explain just how ultra-liberal the left has become throughout the Western World. IOW, notice all the many liberals in America and Europe who emotionally and philosophically tolerate the new Hitler of the 21st century, referring to the president of Iran, while, of course, tolerating Castro of Cuba and the kooks of North Korea. IOW, the left is ass backwards coming and going.

    Mark (411533)

  93. _________________________________________

    fascism is not ultra-right

    To be precise, fascism is a peculiar mix of ultra-liberal and ultra-conservative sentiments, or the worst of both worlds (eg, many aspects of Sadaam Hussein’s Iraq). But since liberalism (and far too many “progressives”) seems more unconcerned about or apathetic (or even hostile) towards common sense and basic logic, I’d say the left is far more likely to end up trapped with (or an enabler to) an extremist ideology or political situation.

    Mark (411533)

  94. __________________________________________

    Another purge is overdue, post-Reagan, as well

    It’s a joke for anyone on the left to be recommending what the right should do given things like, oh, uh, President “I Love Jeremiah Wright” Obama sitting in the Oval Office.

    Mark (411533)

  95. For Disco Stu, the only good conservatives are dead conservatives.

    Never mind about well documented cases of conservatives purged from academia for holding inconvenient ideas about global warming, homosexuality, or intelligent design. Liberalism is all about teh tolerance.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  96. if you can win by merely shouting down your opponent…

    ..you will find all of your opponents have louder voices.

    Michael Ejercito (64388b)

  97. RE: video

    Ah, the heart and soul of the Democratic Party, trying to exercise the heckler’s veto. Charming.

    What’s truly frightening is how many Democrats love this stuff. They really don’t want democracy, they just want power. Power to reward their friends and punish their enemies. Power over you.

    Brad (ab3e97)

  98. Daleyrocks: name one conservative purged from an academic position. This simply does not happen in America.
    Sure, plenty of conservatives quit in frustration because their ideas are so unpopular on campuses, but so do many fringe leftists. That’s completely different from purges, which are deliberate, open eliminations of people from their positions because of their views.

    Big Median (2f532a)

  99. Big Median is wrong. Conservatives are discriminated against for their political views.

    Professor Wagner (Iowa) was asked to conceal her conservative credentials if she wanted to be fired by a law school.

    Hell, it’s so common that liberals actually start websites devoted to purging conservatives from academic positions.

    That fits his “deliberate, open eliminations of people from their positions because of their views.”

    Of course, anyone with an education has noticed there is a definite undercurrent of ‘something wrong with conservatives’ among many of the prominent faculty. You’d have to be braindead to think this doesn’t manifest in a lot of unseen ways, too.

    Big Median probably already knew this. If I recall, he’s just a troll of the Yelvertion strain. There are tolerant lefties out there, but the intolerant lefties think they oppress you for your own good. That’s why they feel free to be so egregious. That’s also why the democrat party is rapidly losing America’s trust.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  100. my “fired” should have been typed “hired”. Pretty amusing typo!

    Dustin (c16eca)

  101. “Of course, conservatives can rise to the occasion from time to time and be quite savvy at purging the fanatics and extremists from their own movement. The banishments of Rand and the Birchers by Buckley, Chambers, etc., comes to mind.”

    Yeah, that was a real bloodbath. Buckley wrote an essay criticizing Rand’s positions, Chambers panned “Atlas Shrugged”, and Rand then carried out a counter-purge and refused to go to parties that Buckley was attending.

    And, Buckley even once went so far as to call Robert Welch “idiotic”!!!

    The brutality of righties is simply appalling.

    Sure, there weren’t any mass murders, like those carried out by Democrats or commies, no lynchings no show trials, no mass executions, no banishments to Siberia (or Duluth)…but feelings were definitely hurt.

    Dave Surls (38a8d2)

  102. Hey Hey LBJ, how many babies did you kill today?

    I am an old enough to remember the good old days when demonstrators turned over cars and got their heads bashed in by cops with clubs. I was a little kid when King was shot and there was some hatred on both sides out there in the streets back then.

    I think what we are seeing today is the power of you tube…that means that everyone gets to see the stupidity up close and personal rather than just hear about it after the fact..or not hear about it at all.

    Terrye (84455a)

  103. Lee, where is this different from the 60s? The liberals, the kiddies, the permanent children who go out and protest feel that ANY action on their part is justified by the ends they are whining for. They want to be heard and feared. These are simply people who never grew up and took some responsibility for themselves.

    The Tea Party protesters are mostly adults. They just want to be heard and respected. The difference shows.

    {^_^}

    JD (bcdcf2)

  104. “Why Do Liberals Applaud Awful Behavior?”

    Why Do Conservatives Write Silly Tripe?

    Zoubida (0692b1)

  105. Why Do Conservatives Write Silly Tripe?

    You do realize that Mr Stranahan isn’t a Conservative, right?

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  106. You do realize that Mr Stranahan isn’t a Conservative, right?

    I don’t care what he says, only what he does and with whom. A true liberal would never shake hands with Breitbastard nor post on this blog.

    Zoubida (0692b1)

  107. And “zoubida” gets to define who is, and who is not, a true liberal. That was zoubida,s and his ilk in the Oregon video.

    Big median is an assertion monkey. Nothing more.

    JD (85b089)

  108. I asked this at Political Carnival (linked above by Lee): Why do the liberals not allow room for debate? Why not let Palin be heard and trust the citizenry to think and make their own decisions about what she has to say?…etc…. Is that what democracy looks like?

    And received this reply: You bet-sonny boy, this is what democracy looks like when good people are being crapped on by a cult of depraved, craven ideologues with a depraved, craven and twisted ideology, more dangerous than Sarafailin–the GOP thugs in WI have some actual power. You get “trickled” on by the GOP crap long enough it is time to start flinging it back in the direction it is coming from. As for you, my grandpa always said: There are only 2 kinds of Republicans: Millionaires and SUCKERS. Have a nice day SUCKER.

    Collectively, they just don’t appear to think through issues but rather appear to have given themselves over to irrational and unhinged emotional eruptions.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  109. A true liberal would never…

    Thank you for introducing us to the “No true Sctosman” fallacy!

    Some chump (e84e27)

  110. The “no true Scotsman” so-called fallacy is usually not. There are things that are of necessity true of all Scotsmen, or of so many that one may doubt the true Scots nature of anyone who doesn’t share the trait. Even the existence of the occasional freak doesn’t invalidate a generalisation; but often there are traits that really, by their nature, must be true of the whole group.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  111. Conservatives don’t get “purged” from academic jobs, they just don’t get hired in the first place.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  112. “A true liberal would never shake hands with Breitbastard nor post on this blog.”

    Guess that means the idiot who posted the above isn’t a true liberal.

    Whatever the hell that is.

    Dave Surls (0c1323)


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