Ground Zero Imam: Islam is a Religion of Peaceful People Who Fly Off the Handle Over Mere Speech
[Guest post by Aaron Worthing; if you have tips, please send them here.]
So the Ground Zero Imam Feisel decided to weigh in on Peter King’s hearings on radical Islam. Mind you, they haven’t actually happened yet, but for some reason the mere fact he going to have some kind of hearings justifies shutting it down. Why? Because his utterly peaceful co-religionists might go all terrorist over this.
I have long identified this as freeloading on terrorism, where a supposed “moderate” Muslim tells those of us in the West, don’t draw cartoons of Mohammed (pedophilia be upon him), don’t criticize his faith and so on. Because, you know, if you do, one of us Muslims are going to go and commit terrorism.
In short, don’t actually exercise and enjoy your freedom. Live your lives limited by intimidation. And then we will get along famously.
So he reaps the benefit of terrorism, without having the gonads to blow himself up. Hey, Imam, instead of trying to talk us out of exercising our freedom, if you really think your co-religionists can’t be expected to control themselves, why don’t you work on that instead? That seems like the bigger problem to me.
It comes down to this. Either Islam is compatible with freedom or it is not. And by “compatible with freedom” I mean that a Muslim has to be able to see this…
…and not hurt anyone else. I mean the point of that cartoon is to say that Islam is uniquely violent. And you don’t exactly rebut it by threatening to murder anyone who calls your faith violent, okay? And if you can’t expect Muslims to deal with criticism, blasphemy, etc. without going on a killing spree, then Islam is not compatible with American freedom. And I don’t think you want to see where that road takes us.
But I know for a fact this isn’t true. I know of and work with Muslims every day who would never resort to violence over that kind of thing. They rightly consider statements like Imam Feisel’s as a betrayal of those millions of good Muslims who believe in freedom and Allah.
But it is hypocritical, Imam Feisel, to try to reap the benefits of terrorism without admitting responsibility for terrorism. It is hypocritical to pretend to denounce terrorism while simultaneously enabling it. And It is hypocritical to say that your people will murder over mere words, but to simultaneously pretend that Islam is not a problem in America.
And when you act this way, Feisel, you enable terrorism.
—————-
Also, previously I fisked the GZM Imam, here (language warning at the link).
[Posted and authored by Aaron Worthing.]
Stop whining Imam Rauf. Stop saying the U.S. is responsible for 9/11. Stop saying one thing in the U.S. and another thing to muslims overseas. Tell your followers to grow up and join the modern world.
daleyrocks (ae76ce) — 3/8/2011 @ 5:50 pmThe conflict between radical Islamists and so-called infidels will make the Cold War look like a brief bout of hiccups.
norcal (b13c77) — 3/8/2011 @ 6:06 pmwho put this blabbering douche on the tv anyways? TV is a whore it should have more better standards. Me I don’t hardly watch it at all specially not the “news” parts.
happyfeet (ab5779) — 3/8/2011 @ 6:15 pmThe hearings will focus the public’s limited attention span on the Islamist issue for a few weeks. I hope for more but get depressed looking at the Wisconsin reaction.
If Pearl Harbor happened today, we would file suit in the World Court, or something
Mike K (8f3f19) — 3/8/2011 @ 6:20 pmDeath to the juice.
daleyrocks (ae76ce) — 3/8/2011 @ 7:11 pmagave juice is an increasingly popular sweetener it mostly comes from mexico … it’s sweeter than sugar even and the hippie vegan love children like to make baked goods with it and you know what? That’s ok.
happyfeet (ab5779) — 3/8/2011 @ 7:17 pmIt’s also hypocritical for King to try to make a distinction between the IRA and Al-Qaeda. King tried to say that the IRA wasn’t really a terrorist group because it only targeted Protestant males, even though it ended up killing women and children and innocent males, but that the IRA was somehow different from Al-Queda.
Jim (ad29d8) — 3/8/2011 @ 7:24 pmYour comment about reaping the benefit of terrorism without admitting responsibility also holds for the Islamic community. The Islamic community in the U.S. seems to have been particularly non-spoken in its reaction to Islamic terrorism. One can’t suborn violence by constantly looking the other way and then claim that your group is inherently peaceful. It’s like the classic Italian mafioso going to mass and communion while a hit he ordered is carried out and then purporting to be a religious Christian. Remember, all that evil needs is for good men to do nothing.
The left accepts this claim of non-violenceimmediately, unquestioningly and without verification because it fits their constructed narrative and besides, they most often respond to the appearance of an issue not to its the reality (e.g., the Duke rape case).
If the U.S. Islamic community were more outspoken in condemning these actions, perhaps their claim would carry more weight in the national dialogue.
T (eb59bf) — 3/8/2011 @ 7:24 pm“agave juice is an increasingly popular sweetener it mostly comes from mexico”
Mr. Feets – But you gotta kill the poor little fruit, vegetable or plant is what I meant when I said death to the juice. Without one you don’t get the other. Plants are people too.
daleyrocks (ae76ce) — 3/8/2011 @ 7:56 pmcircle of life my brotha
happyfeet (ab5779) — 3/8/2011 @ 7:59 pmOh, I get it now. It’s all our fault
elissa (392ed2) — 3/8/2011 @ 8:13 pmjuice to juice
daleyrocks (ae76ce) — 3/8/2011 @ 8:27 pmelissa – We are just not sensitive enough to the needs of the Muslim community while some of its members commit acts of terrorism on our soil. We are just dumb kuffirs after all and must become enlightened by our betters.
daleyrocks (ae76ce) — 3/8/2011 @ 8:29 pmWhy doesn’t this Peter T. King investigate the “Home Grown” radicalization of Irish Americans, who support the tradition wing of the IRA (Irish Republican Army), or Noraid (The Irish Northern Aid Committee), and being recruited by “Enemy Overseas” or worse the “Catholic Church ”, where their priests have rape our young American boys, what about that you hypocrite scumbag.
Montana (d10380) — 3/8/2011 @ 8:38 pmhey it’s almost St. Patrick’s Day that’s when we go have fish n chips and the mushy peas for lunch with the for reals pasty British people at this pub on Ventura… it’s fun, kinda
happyfeet (ab5779) — 3/8/2011 @ 8:45 pmMontana, The Catholic Church doesn’t rape you because you accused them of raping. The groups you name are far from perfect, but it’s especially awful to use violence or benefit from it as you decry being called violent.
And indeed, I think people would protest if the Catholic Church tried to install a shrine over a rape crisis center, or somehow otherwise replicate the triumphant GZM nonsense.
Dustin (c16eca) — 3/8/2011 @ 8:46 pmI’m pretty sure peas are not fun. I bake my own bread and can see the fun in replacing sugar with whatever, but peas? No fun to be had there.
Dustin (c16eca) — 3/8/2011 @ 8:47 pmoh. just a note you have to get the mushy peas a la carte cause of the fish already comes with chips it’s just the way it is
happyfeet (ab5779) — 3/8/2011 @ 8:48 pmTolerance is an inherent part of Islam; as Muslims we are instructed to be tolerant of the faith, beliefs, backgrounds, intellect and race of others around us.
Allah has sent us clear instructions to live peacefully amongst our fellow human beings. There are numerous ayahs imploring us to be tolerant. Our prophet taught us ultimate patience and tolerance by not punishing those who hurt him and his followers in every possible way, following Allah’s word and the Sunnah, it is imperative that we start accepting the differences and let go of our arrogance. Islam teaches us submission and humility, we must be humble and thank Allah for his blessings and accept the fact that Allah has not given us the right to judge others, but that we are here to lead by example.
Verse (2.256 Al-Baqarah) of the Quran: Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
It is our job to spread our message with patience and with humility. Our behavior must be beyond reproach so that we may lead by example.
1. Verse (42:48 Ash-Shura) of the Quran. ‘If then they run away, We have not sent thee as a guard over them. Thy duty is but to convey (the Message). And truly, when We give man a taste of a Mercy from Ourselves, he doth exult thereat, but when some ill happens to him, on account of the deeds which his hands have sent forth, truly then is man ungrateful!’
2. Verse (16:125 An-Nahl) of the Quran. ‘Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance’.
3. Verse (16:82 An-Nahl) of the Quran. ‘But if they turn away, thy duty is only to preach the clear Message’.
Islam recognizes the freedom of beliefs and freedom of religion. Believers find cure and solace in patience. In the Quran, Allah has mentioned patience about 70 times, more than any other virtue. Be tolerant of other beliefs, be patient and treat others with respect, no affliction is worse than hardness of the heart. Being tolerant of others and being kind to others is not a weakness but strength of our belief and our religion. Our prophet’s strength of character, his patience, his kindness towards all fellow human beings, his steadfastness and his unrelenting belief in the Truth pulled all who knew him towards him. Even the ones who did not convert trusted him. The Prophet followed Allah’s words and spread his message without punishing the ones who did not accept the message. All humanity belongs to Allah, the sun shines and the rain comes down on the believers and the unbelievers. Allah has given all the same gifts and blessings in this world. He gives each of us the time to come back to him. but has not given us the right to punish anyone for his or her specific beliefs. Punishing the unbelievers or the believers who have opinions that are different from you is against our moral duty. Allah is providing for them and we would be committing a crime against Him if we were intolerant.
Tolerance is our religious duty. We must accept that even within the Muslim community, we have various beliefs and we do not have a right to force others to follow our opinions.
4. Verses (22.67-69 – Al-Hajj) To every People have We appointed rites and ceremonies which they must follow: let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord: for thou art assuredly on the Right Way’. If they do wrangle with thee, say, “Allah knows best what it is ye are doing”. “Allah will judge between you on the Day of Judgment concerning the matters in which ye differ”.
5. Verses (24.54 – An-Nur) Say: “Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger’s duty is only to preach the clear (Message).
6. Verse (86.17 – At-Tariq) Therefore grant a delay to the unbelievers; Give respite to them gently.
When Allah has granted the time and blessings in this world to all, we have absolutely no right to punish our fellow human beings. Allah says ‘Be’ and it is, and it is just as easy for him to take away the blessings and life of his creations. We are going against his will when we take it upon ourselves to make everyone follow our opinions and beliefs. Allah loves humility and does not appreciate arrogance, our Daawa is important but our work is only to spread the message.
We must teach our children, the Muslim humility, tolerance and kindness towards all.
Muslims and Non Muslims should have the freedom to follow their own beliefs without demeaning the other faiths.
It is our responsibility to follow Allah’s words and protect each other’s faith and their places of worship from being attacked by any group. Say ‘No’ to injustice and violence against any group, it is our duty, that each individual must take ownership and responsibility to protect each other from any hostile group. We must stand up for justice and peace, Now! We must not allow internal or external groups to incite us against each other. We must teach our children the importance of respecting each other and accepting the differences. Show the Islamic strength of tolerance so that we may prosper in this world and the hereafter.
Verse (5:8) of the Quran. O you who believe, be upright for Allah and (be) bearers of witness with justice.
Verse (5:8) of the Quran. O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
Verse (60:8) of the Quran. Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just
Bibliography:
one muslim (01739b) — 3/8/2011 @ 9:18 pmTranslation of the Holy Quran – Abdullah Yusuf Ali
Tolerance in Islam – Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall
Splodeydopes are tolerant.
JD (d4bbf1) — 3/8/2011 @ 9:26 pmone muslim – Please pass the above on to your fellow muslims. They need it more than us.
daleyrocks (ae76ce) — 3/8/2011 @ 9:28 pmone muslim…
I’m sure family of the Minister assassinated in Pakistan will be reassured by your message as to how the “Religion of Peace” commands tolerance of other viewpoints.
Maroon!
AD-RtR/OS! (a0fcb6) — 3/8/2011 @ 9:58 pmROPMA.
mohamed, piss be upon him, was a psychotic bandit and a child molesting pervert. the koran is a demented record of the ravings of said psychotic and it has no application to the 21st century, except for those amongst us who would drag humanity back to the twelfth.
to all the headbangers out there, i have only one thing to say to you: “Lan astaslem”
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 3/8/2011 @ 10:35 pmAh, yes … It reminds me of the satirical headline:
“Muslims Fear Backlash Over Tomorrow’s Terror Bombing”
Murgatroyd (fd5fcd) — 3/8/2011 @ 11:10 pmSomehow, I sense a twelve year old muslim is at the keyboard, who has been radicalized by the thought of Rep. King holding hearings on the radicalization of American muslims.
Hence all the silly attempts at drawing analogies which, when you look at it, just show why Congress is ignoring all these non-lethal organizations.
First off, there is no “traditional wing” of the IRA. You probably don’t want to buy my book “Terrorist Groups for Dummies,” so I’ll just go ahead and tell you that there are two offshoots of the IRA; the Continuity IRA and the Real IRA. And I won’t make you guess how many people they managed to kill in 2010. Zero.
They injured a few people, but coyotes injure more people in LA county alone every year.
Do you want to know how many people muslim extremists killed in 2010? More than I care to count; 111 in January alone.
I looked up the twenty biggest terrorist incidents of all time. The IRA isn’t on the list. The Libyans pulled off too (I am generously not including them under the category of muslim), the Sikhs and UNITA rebels in Angola each pulled off two. The cause of one was undetermined.
Guess who caused the other 15 largest terrorist incidents of all time? C’mon, guess? I’ll give you four hints. They were religious extremists, they weren’t Buddhists, they weren’t Jews, and they weren’t Christians.
Oh, and those NORAID folks look like real trouble. I went to their website. They are threatening to hold a 30th anniversary dinner to commemorate the ’80-’81 hungerstrike.
Seriously, Hannah Montana, you think these things are remotely comparable? That’s just … lame.
Even at the height of the “troubles” there weren’t people flying planes into buildings or blowing up bombs here in the US. Why would want to investigate ancient history, instead of a current threat?
Why isn’t King investigating the Catholic Church? Because law enforcement agencies are, that’s why. Which brings up another interesting point of contrast between muslims and non-muslims. When the law enforcement authorities investigate boy raping priests, Catholics say “good! Throw them in prison and throw away the key.” They don’t riot with signs that say “Behead those who insult our religion.”
You see, pedophilia is against the teachings of the Catholic church. As it is in I believe all Christian denominations. If there is someone purporting to be a man of God committing such a sin, he gets thrown in the clink. He doesn’t become the leading prophet of the religion.
Oh, and how about taking an ESL class?
Steve (49173f) — 3/8/2011 @ 11:51 pmI meant to say that the Sikhs and UNITA rebels pulled off two collectively, not that they each pulled off two.
My excuse is that it’s 2:00a.m. here in the central time zone & I just finished work.
What’s yours, Montana?
Steve (49173f) — 3/8/2011 @ 11:55 pmWe had a visitor today, a muslim left a lengthy post establishing a position. Many of you had a rare chance to possibly engage this person and start a path, a dialog, to show them why the power of your faith and freedoms were something they should consider; I’m sure family of the Minister assassinated in Pakistan will be reassured by your message as to how the “Religion of Peace” commands tolerance of other viewpoints.
Maroon!;
aaaaannnnnd it deteriates from there
Its a shame this opportunity was missed
Instead, this was the dialogue that followed”
Splodeydopes are tolerant; Please pass the above on to your fellow muslims. They need it more than us;
EricPWJohnson (7f225a) — 3/9/2011 @ 1:11 am26.We had a visitor today, a muslim left a lengthy post establishing a position. Many of you had a rare chance to possibly engage this person and start a path, a dialog, to show them why the power of your faith and freedoms were something they should consider; instead we got the following dialogue:
Instead, this was the dialogue that followed”
Splodeydopes are tolerant; Please pass the above on to your fellow muslims. They need it more than us; I’m sure family of the Minister assassinated in Pakistan will be reassured by your message as to how the “Religion of Peace” commands tolerance of other viewpoints;
Maroon!;
aaaaannnnnd it deteriates from there
Its a shame this opportunity was missed
EricPWJohnson (7f225a) — 3/9/2011 @ 1:16 am“Muhammad is also criticised for the mass killing of the men of the Banu Qurayza, a Jewish tribe of Medina. The tribe was accused of having engaged in treasonous agreements with the enemies besieging Medina in the Battle of the Trench in 627.[46][47] Ibn Ishaq writes that Muhammad approved the beheading of some 600-900 individuals who surrendered unconditionally after a siege that lasted several weeks.[43] (Also see Bukhari 5:59:362) (Yusuf Ali notes that the Qur’an discusses this battle in verses [Qur’an 33:10]).[48] They were buried in a mass grave in the Medina market place. The women and children were sold into slavery.”–wiki
The followers of the false God, Allah, including the false prophet, the child-molestor, slaver, thief and murderer, Mohammed, have never shown tolerance or kindness towards anyone who got in their way.
Not on day one. And, not now.
I’m all for engaging Muslims…on the battlefield, and once we’ve driven them off all the Christian lands they’ve stolen over the centuries (Alexandria, Antioch, Constantiniople, Damascus), then we’ll see whether WE feel like being just or if we fell like being merciful and tolerant of those who have been wronging us for centuries.
And, if I was a Muslim I’d be praying for mercy, and not for justice.
Dave Surls (6a4662) — 3/9/2011 @ 3:16 am“Religious freedom is virtually non-existent in Saudi Arabia. The Government does not provide legal recognition or protection for freedom of religion, and it is severely restricted in practice. As a matter of policy, the Government guarantees and protects the right to private worship for all, including non-Muslims who gather in homes for religious practice; however, this right is not always respected in practice and is not defined in law.[155] Moreover, the public practice of non-Muslim religions is prohibited.”
And, there is no toleration whatsoever, for other faiths in Arabia, the birthplace and heart of Islam, a merry little land where, following longstanding Muslim tradition, apostates and blasphemers are executed from time to time.
So, spare me the crap about kindness and toleration. Muslims don’t even know the meaning of those words.
Dave Surls (6a4662) — 3/9/2011 @ 3:28 amDave,
I’m curious, who exactly do you want to send to engage them on the battelfield?
Are you volunteering?
So, instead of starting a dialogue, you want war, of course one you wont fight personally, naturally, the bravest words seem to come from those who are the safest.
Even the Israeli’s are not as hard line as you seem to be.
EricPWJohnson (7f225a) — 3/9/2011 @ 4:54 amErix, you are kidding, right, how many times have seen and read sermons from al Haramain, al Azhar, other major bases of the Sunni ulema, crying out
narciso (a3a9aa) — 3/9/2011 @ 5:05 amagainst the Jews and the Crusaders, along the lines of Surah 5;33, and Surah 9, When the major figures of the Saud clan like Interior Minister, Nayef denied the responsibiity of his kinsman for 9/11. when Taseerand Bhatti were slain, and the assasins were honored. Your neighbor, the esteemed
Sheik Quradawi, who issued fatwas authorizing suicide bombings in Iraq, is denial that deep a river in your mind.
Seems our Muslim pal left out the part of the Koran where the false prophet at 50+ married a 6-year old girl and consummated the realtionship when she was all of 9. That’s in that groovy book. Also, a whole bunch of stuff about killing Jews and Christians.
We do not have to accept all the huddled masses. We especially should not accept those who do not share our values about respecting others, and instead wish to institute sharia law as supreme above us all. And have repeatedly tried to kill Americans across the globe. get yourself to JFK and get a one way ticket back to the land of sharia that you love so.
Might want to read the news about the wonders of diversity. Western Europe is no longer playing these games. And we had but last week another “religion of peace” adherent MURDER to unarmed USAF Airmen in Germany while screaming “Alahu Akbar!”, like Nidal Hassan(I will not call that POS an Army major) did at Fort Hood.Or the numerous honor killings like the Buffalo TV executive convicted of beheading his wife. Or the beheaders of Daniel Pearl.Or the Times Square bomber. Or either set of WTC bombers. Or the Atlantic Avenue bombers.
Need I go on? If you want to set up your Mini-Iran here, go back form whence thee came.
I have sons. These wars are insane, and I’d prefer to simply have nothing to do with this group psychosis pretending to be a religion.I don’t want my sons to deal with thes imbeciles. I can no longer pretend a stranger with hate in his heart for all this country stands for is some long-awaited friend.
Of cours finally the Muslims did march, in Times Square Sunday-to complain about Congressman King’s hearings about radicalized domestic Islam like Nidal Hassan and John Mohammed and too many others. Not a word was spoken about the 2 Airmen killed last week, nor the Catholic convert executed in Pakistan the week before.If Muslims expressed half the outrage they do at such real atrocities (which are daily occurrences) as they do every and any imagined slight, may be we would have the beginning of an honest conversation. Alas it is not to be. So better than that-go back to your land of sharia. You cannot handle America.
Bugg (9e308e) — 3/9/2011 @ 5:50 am“Ran” – why are you hiding behind yet another name?
JD (306f5d) — 3/9/2011 @ 6:02 amNarcisco
Well, no I am not kidding, even the ISraelis dont think tht every man woman and child who doesnt surrender their homes, faith, religion, beliefs should suffer death.
Many here decry the early Islamic conquests and faith by the sword – And yet are silent against those who are advocting violence, unimaginable violence, unless they turn to christianity
I guess I missed that part of the sermon on the mount..
EricPWJohnson (7f225a) — 3/9/2011 @ 6:24 amone muslim
i won’t even attempt to debate whether the teachings of the koran are basically good or bad, or if the true face of islam is good or bad. if you want to say osama bin laden is not a proper muslim, i positively encourage that attitude.
But people like this imam enable bad behavior. he thinks apparently that muslims are uniquely incapable to dealing with criticism and blasphemy of their faith. and that kind of attitude needs to be denounced, and reeks of hypocrisy coming from this imam.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 3/9/2011 @ 6:30 amJD,because “Ran” is another one of the lunatics that try to make some moral equivalency between “Christians” and the violence found in the Qu’ran. So they use the Old Testament as their source. See, they think you are stupid and don’t understand what a Christian is, which is a follower of Christ who changed the old ways, a reformer you might say. Since they can’t find passages in the New Testament where Christ told his followers to lop off the heads of His enemies, or kill all those who did not follow Him, they use the old ways that Christ denounced.
After 9-11 I will admit that a few Muslims denounced the actions of their fellow 19, but it was very few. When Nidal Hassan murdered, in cold blood, so many, where were the protest marches in D.C. denouncing the henious crime Hassan had just committed in the name of their religion? Or how about the march in New York, denouncing the Times Square bomber? Where where their signs that said “Hassan Does Not Speak For Us?”
Time after time, event after event, Muslims remained silent and their spokesmen came out saying how worried they were about “reprisals” against Muslims. Yet, here we are, almost 10 years after 9-11, and FBI reports show that the largest segment of our society to suffer from hate crimes are not Muslims, but Jews.
So no Muslim protest marches when one of their fellow Islamists commit violence in the name of their religion, but hey, try to get to the bottom of why American Muslims are being radicalized, and they are in the streets claiming victimhood.
Idiots on the left (I call them co-conspirators) will make excuses, saying that it is U.S. policy in the Middle East that causes them to commit violence. To that I can only say “Really?” and ask why the Muslim hordes marched across Europe until they were stopped at the Gates of Vienna. It surely must have been the policies of the U.S. that caused the hordes to rape and pilage their way across Europe, right?
Germany and France are rapidly learning that “multiculturism” doesn’t work. The fact is simple, Islam is NOT condusive to western philosophy of governments. No one will “assimilate” into a culture they inherently believe is evil and all those who don’t believe as they do, no matter their faith, are infidels.
I think if you research the Qu’ran, you will learn that for the first 13 years Mohammed tried peaceful means. These are generally the years that Islamists quote when they are trying to show what a “peaceful” religion Islam is. But Mohomment took a turn, turned into nothing more than a warlord who rewarded those who slaughtered in his name, and decided that violence filled the coffers a lot quicker than peaceful means did.
Islam has but one goal; world dominance. It is written. And all the talk about it is a religion of peace is so much bull. It is not just a religion, but a cult that encompases not just religion, but politics, social requirements, every aspect of one’s life even directing the direction a man must face when going to the bathroom. It does not allow for individual thought since one does not have control over their own lives because all things have been pre-determined by Allah.
King is right to do what he is doing. Someone needs to answer why so many violent acts lead by to the Falls Church, Virginia mosque (2 of the 19, Nidal Hassan, and the jolly jihadist in Yemen).
Dr. Zuhdi Jasser is the one Muslim who is trying to tell the nation that until the religious aspect of Islam is separated from the political, we will continue to see more and more attempts at violence here. He has called for a reformation of Islam, much like all faiths have gone through, to remove the political from the religious. And for his efforts, Dr. Jasser has received death threats from his own.
My fear is that King will not go far enough. He will not get to the root of radical Islam in America. But to claim, as the left does, that that this is a witch hunt by bigots, makes as much sense as saying that rooting out the Mafia in America was a witch hunt against Italians.
retire05 (63d9af) — 3/9/2011 @ 6:40 amHere’s another example of spot the logical fallacy, it’s like a Python sketch, (the quiz show one;)
narciso (a3a9aa) — 3/9/2011 @ 7:21 amhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/us/politics/09king.html?_r=1&hp
“Its a shame this opportunity was missed”
EricPW – It’s a shame that the commenter’s coreligionists, including Imam Rauf need the lecture more than the folks on this blog. There was no opportunity missed. We have heard these claims many times before. Perhaps you have not. Imadamnutjob from Iran spews them all the time, except for the humility at the start of the comment.
You actually expect non-muslims to convince muslims that their religion is peaceful, Seriously?
We need to be convinced by actions not words. The veiled threats of people like Imam Rauf are unhelpful. The problems of Islam are internal not external. Thanks for missing the point once again.
daleyrocks (ae76ce) — 3/9/2011 @ 8:01 amWhat disturbs me most about those against King’s
investigation is that it reminds me of the backlash against President Bush when he spoke of his concerns about Fannie Mai and Freddie Mac….anyone remember Barney Frank (and every other member of the Democrat Party) telling the whole world how solvent those two institutions were? They weren’t being honest then, and those against King’s investigation aren’t being honest now.
The other thing that concerns me is that we actually haven’t had a backlash against Muslims….not even a little one. Jews are still far more likely to be the victim of a hate crime than Muslims are. In fact, it might be best to view King’s investigation as the first backlash to actually occur. An open, public look at Islamic supremacism.
At this point, King’s investigation is the equivalent of getting your oil changed and putting in a Fram Oil Filter (remember that commercial? Here is a helpful link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq3wL8ZXjBU )
But what we are in fact heading for, even with King’s investigation, is probably going to be an engine rebuild. At some point, and we are getting closer everyday, a majority of people, not just here in the US, but in Canada, UK, France, Australia, Germany,as well as India, Thailand, China, Russia etc. are going to say enough is enough, and…well…probably best not to go there, but the best case scenario is that we become energy independent, which means we stop buying middle east oil, which would cause massive disruption in the Middle East. At a certain point, we will only judge Islam on what it does, not what it says. It’s high time we started.
To One Muslim and his supporters:
Show me actual proof of Muslim tolerance. Show me a Muslim country where Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. can freely build temples and worship freely. Show me a Muslim country where women have equal rights with men. Show me a Muslim country where non-Muslims are never hurt or killed for supposed blasphemy, or just worshiping the way they want. Show me a Muslim country where apostasy is not a criminal offense.
Jack (f9fe53) — 3/9/2011 @ 8:07 amShow me a Muslim country where homosexuality is not a criminal offense. Show me a Muslim country where different sects of Islam live in peace, and not pieces. The tragedy is that you can’t, and you know you can’t.
OneMuslim: regarding your lengthy post and all of those quotes from the Koran showing how tolerant and peaceful Islam is. I know little about the Koran, but I would bet you you next weeks paycheck that they are all taken from the first half of the Koran, and are considered to be null and void when they come into conflict with verses that come later in the book, and that this doctrine of supercedence (not the right word, but you get the idea) is supported by the four major Islamic schools of religious jurisprudence. In other words, you are deliberately lying, you are misrepresenting Islam to the readers here, claiming it to be something that is not true.
Want to know the difference between Islam and Christianity:
There is no place in the Bible where God, Jesus, or any disciple or saint says that it is OK to lie if it furthers the cause of Christianity. Yet in the Koran, they actually have a word for such a practice. The word is “taquiya” and it permits lying to promote Islam. Again, you know it, I know it, and you know I know, and you know that other people are learning the same thing.
With Islam, tolerance is like a rachet wrench, it only moves in one direction, theirs. Sorry, but until the 1920s Islam had a caliphate, whose obligation was to declare jihad at least once a year to subjugate the non-Muslim world and bring it under control of Islam and Sharia. Once Muslims control your land, you as an infidel have zero rights and freedoms, and a mere insult of Islam will bring death. That, in a nutshell, is what Muslim tolerance is about: tolerate them or else. By the way, there are constant calls in the Muslim world to reestablish the caliphate, after which all Muslims in America will become a willing fifth column.
Read the Historyscoper’s Islam Watch Blog and quit ostriching.
TL Winslow (66fdf1) — 3/9/2011 @ 8:32 amand since we’re on this topic, can anyone name the Muslim leaders who denounced the beheading of the American Jew Daniel Pearl? I’ll make it easy for you I’ll accept denunciation as anti-American or as Anti-Jew. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? (crickets chirp)
T (400783) — 3/9/2011 @ 9:00 amDaley
Opening a Dialogue never hurts, and sure through persuasive acts anyone cn be convinced if the argument is good enough, have faith
EricPWJohnson (7f225a) — 3/9/2011 @ 9:08 am“I’m curious, who exactly do you want to send to engage them on the battelfield?”
Probably the same batch of guys that have been fighting the Muslims over in Iraq and Afghanistan for the past umpteen years.
After 20 years of almost continuous low level fighting, they have probably have the knack of it by now.
Dave Surls (a68abd) — 3/9/2011 @ 9:21 amDave,
They havent been fighting muslims Dave
EricPWJohnson (7f225a) — 3/9/2011 @ 9:43 amUnlike Islam I don’t believe that you can show any current event of Christianity that advocates “violence, unimaginable violence, unless they turn to christianity”. Please show a current event of a mainstream Christian organization that advocates “unimaginable violence” towards those that don’t convert to Christianity.
When looking at words in the New Testament you really have to go to the original language to interpret the word fully. For instance, Agape which is often translated as love actually means unconditional love, Phileo means brotherly love, eros means erotic/sexual love… With this in mind you have to say that yes, Islam is the religion of peace, but peace should be translated as peace through conquest. In the Islamic world there is peace as long as you have been conquered by Islam and are under Islamic law.
In Judaism and Christianity you have free will. Yes, the consequences of your free will can be Heaven or Hell, but it is your free will to choose. It is not the duty of a Jew or Christian to kill you if you don’t make the “correct” choice, unlike Islam.
Tanny O'Haley (12193c) — 3/9/2011 @ 9:48 am“They havent been fighting muslims Dave”
Whatever.
Dave Surls (158f28) — 3/9/2011 @ 10:02 amTanny,
Just read this thread
Anyone can make any statement about a religion that some people are going to find correct to fill their preconceived notions or find highly offensive.
Islam is a religion, but its their way of life that is in conflict, great conflict. I know there are countries Islamic countries where there are large active Jewish populations, and christian populations, in fact Kuwait, Qatar and the UAE – christians are starting to outnumber muslims.
But my point here was to wonder if someone being polite and respectful, could have been engaged more positively
EricPWJohnson (7f225a) — 3/9/2011 @ 10:11 am“in fact Kuwait, Qatar and the UAE – christians are starting to outnumber muslims”
In fact, that’s typical Eric Johnson baloney.
Dave Surls (158f28) — 3/9/2011 @ 10:40 amHow about Bethlehem the birthplace of Jesus which used to have a Christian population of around 80% which is now around 1%. The Muslim population keeps killing them off, just like current day Turkey. Anywhere there an Islamic not secular government there is persecution of non-Muslims. As far a Kuwait, Qatar and the UAE, like Dave Surls said, “baloney”.
You still haven’t shown:
Or even deny that in Islam there is only peace if the government is Islamic.
Tanny O'Haley (12193c) — 3/9/2011 @ 10:47 amEric, yes, Islam is a religion, but it is oh, so much more than just a religion. It is due to Islam that you mention “their way of life”. To understand the problem you have to understand that there is no such thing as free will in Islam, or the right to make decisions outside the dictate of Islam itself.
Example: a suicide bomber is not responsible for the deaths of others for two reasons: 1) he is waging jihad in the name of Allah and 2) Allah had already decided the actions that would be taken by the bomber. No free will.
We are told that there are peaceful Muslims. Yet, a quick perusal of any Islamic nation shows no such things as women are persecuted, those of other faiths are persecuted, etc.
retire05 (63d9af) — 3/9/2011 @ 10:48 am“And yet are silent against those who are advocting violence, unimaginable violence, unless they turn to christianity”
EricPW – Can you give examples of people advocating forced conversion to Christianity please?
Also, all those Christians you mention in Kuwait, Qatar and the UAE, are they free to openly practice their faith?
daleyrocks (ae76ce) — 3/9/2011 @ 10:51 amOh, my:
“…I know there are countries Islamic countries where there are large active Jewish populations, and christian populations, in fact Kuwait, Qatar and the UAE – christians are starting to outnumber muslims….”
Let’s see. What are the numbers, according the UN? Just curious. What the man is saying is that in the UAE, of the religious folk present, >50% are Christian.
Um.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 3/9/2011 @ 11:05 amThere are millions of Jews in Iran, too. It is true.
JD (d48c3b) — 3/9/2011 @ 11:17 amCAIR-CAN CONDEMNS KILLING OF AMERICAN REPORTER
MPAC condemns murder of Daniel Pearl in Pakistan
A Muslim roundly condemns the murder of Daniel Pearl
carlitos (01d172) — 3/9/2011 @ 11:23 amThere have never been millions of Jews in what is now Iran. And since the Khomeinist regime took over the Jewish population has plummeted to less than 40K.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 3/9/2011 @ 11:46 amMilhouse, that whooshing sound was sarcasm flying over your head.
carlitos (01d172) — 3/9/2011 @ 12:18 pmIn a previous thread on this blog, someone seriously made that claim.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 3/9/2011 @ 1:00 pmFair enough, it seems I stand corrected. I will check out the links. Two comments. 1) I did quickly look at MPAC, and while they indicate that the condemned both th 9/11 bombings and the murder of Daniel Pearl, they don’t seem to provide links to the actual public statements–I will follow through on those.
2) I was unaware of any of these citations. i do not ever remember hearing about them in the press–mainstream or otherwise. I would hope that these groups can establish a larger presence for and draw more attention to messages like this. I think it’s important.
T (400783) — 3/9/2011 @ 1:01 pmCAIR-or as law enforcemenr refers to tehm, the unindicted co-conspirators in the Holy land case.Read Andrew McCarthy’s book tos ee what a tolerant, peace-loving bunch of folks they are. So you found 3 small citations, and literally nothing else except bleating about the awfulness of ISlamophobia. If you want to imporve the PR of ISlam, take steps to stop your co-relgionists from killing other people in the name of the Arab rock god. If instead you want to be a victim, go back to your 3rd world sharia shithole and pound sand.
Recall also in Bethlehem how Palestinians treated the Church of the Nativity like an outhouse. We’re all supposed to treat Muslims like fragile eggs,and they treat everyone else like total shit,even if they aren’t killing them.
Bugg (9e308e) — 3/9/2011 @ 1:41 pmWe already know that CAIR is a Hamas front, and was named as an unindicted conspirator in the Holyland Foundation trial, so its “condemnation” isn’t worth anything.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 3/9/2011 @ 2:41 pmI’m aware of what CAIR is and does. I just think it’s disingenuous to demand condemnations of terrorism and then dismiss them where they exist. Let’s try for either or.
carlitos (01d172) — 3/9/2011 @ 2:48 pmMilhouse,
The point still is and its trying to be sidetracked is that someone came in and was respectful, aid out an argument, and people lost the chance to engage him.
EricPWJohnson (7f225a) — 3/9/2011 @ 3:02 pmaid = laid, laid out an argument
EricPWJohnson (7f225a) — 3/9/2011 @ 3:05 pmIt left me a little confused too. 55% of me thought it was sarcasm and 45% of me wasn’t sure. 🙂
Tanny O'Haley (12193c) — 3/9/2011 @ 3:07 pmNo, now the point is that epwj was just practicing his asspulls again. Millions of Jews in Iran. More Christians than Muslims in UAE, etc …
Milhouse – epwj made that claim before. I was mocking, as his claims above were almost equally ridiculous.
JD (822109) — 3/9/2011 @ 3:10 pmMPAC is also hardly the moderate and reasonable group it pretends to be. Its communications director as of 2007, Edina Lekovic, used to be managing editor of a magazine where Osama bin Laden was praised “the great Mujahid…our brother…freedom fighter”. CAIR and MPAC play good cop and bad cop. (Except when MPAC’s national director slipped and said that Jefferson or Madison would have shot John Ashcroft.)
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 3/9/2011 @ 3:10 pmMilhouse, I get it. T wanted condemnations, so I pasted them. You dismiss the condemnations. That’s your prerogative. I’m not here to defend CAIR or MPAC other than to note that they certainly qualify as “Muslim leaders” or “Muslim groups” from whom you’d get the requisite condemnation.
carlitos (01d172) — 3/9/2011 @ 3:17 pmDoes blatant propaganda that cherry picks verses out of the Quran and Surahs (sp) worth engagement? Was it really and honest attempt? I’m not sure it was because there is so much in later verses that are not tolerant and advocate violence against the infidel.
I wonder the same about kman. Is it really worthwhile to engage him/her when he/she hasn’t read the post and doesn’t really engage himself/herself?
With one muslim I guess we won’t know unless he decides to come back and maybe answer some of the statements left here, like the meaning of the word Islam, why Muslims are told to kill infidels (isn’t that Allah’s job?), why while Islam is a religion it is also a political system too and why is it a sin to not live under Islamic law?
Tanny O'Haley (12193c) — 3/9/2011 @ 3:22 pmWhen a fringe person bombs an abortion clinic, thousands of pastors condemn the act even when they believe abortion is murder. A Jihadist murders innocents and barely a peep out of the Muslim community. Then the few who do, seem to do a half hearted job that doesn’t comport with previous comments or comments said in Arabic. It’s sort of like a politician who gives a non-apology apology. Why is that?
Tanny O'Haley (12193c) — 3/9/2011 @ 3:33 pm“I’m not here to defend CAIR or MPAC other than to note that they certainly qualify as “Muslim leaders” or “Muslim groups” from whom you’d get the requisite condemnation.”
carlitos – I’m aware of their self-proclaimed leadership status, nothing more.
daleyrocks (ae76ce) — 3/9/2011 @ 3:50 pmTaney,
You missed the chance to show how much christians are loving forgiving people, we all have problems with Islam, and gasp – they all have problems with christianity, but the chance to engage someone in conversation ws lost
Unless you quote entire books of any religious text – the cherry picking ccusation can be made, that is true
He was trying to say that Muslims should be peaceful, if you read what he wrote – it was as close to a condemnation of those terrorists as one gets in the Arab world
this sentence by him is really telling
Never once did he say they were doing that, but what they must do
EricPWJohnson (6a2bb1) — 3/9/2011 @ 4:06 pmIt is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness.
daleyrocks (ae76ce) — 3/9/2011 @ 5:32 pm“He was trying to say that Muslims should be peaceful…”
Whoop-di-do.
I can say that lions ought to hang out with gazelles and dine on grass, instead of on gazelle flesh.
Don’t mean it’s going to happen.
And, Eric’s assertion that Christians in places like the United Arab Emirates are about to outnumber Muslims is the kind of arrant nonsense one expects when reading Eric Johnson’s comments.
The citizenry of the UAE is almost entirely Muslim, and the people who are there who aren’t Muslim are foreign workers. Even if you include the foreign workers, the population of the UAE is around 75% Muslim and maybe 10% Christian.
“According to a ministry report, which collected census data, 76 percent of the total population of the United Arab Emirates is Muslim, 9 percent is Christian, and 15 percent is “other.” [1][2] There is no official recognition of Christian denominations. [3] However, Christians are free to worship and wear religious clothing, if applicable. The importation and sale of religious material is allowed, however, attempts to spread Christianity among Muslims are not permitted. The country has Protestant, Indian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches. [4] The schools in public ownership have no Christian religious education. [5] Christian men are not allowed to marry Muslim women. [6] Conversion from Islam to Christianity is not permitted. [7]”–wiki
That’s “tolerance”, Muslim style. And, it’s the same deal for the other emirates Eric mentions.
Eric is doing what Eric always does, supporting his arguments with facts that aren’t facts, and the stuff put out by “one muslim” is a fairy tale version of Islam that doesn’t exist in the real world.
Dave Surls (c77c97) — 3/9/2011 @ 6:06 pmSteve, “according to the CAIN research project at the University of Ulster, the Provisional IRA was responsible for the deaths of 1,824 people during the Troubles up to 2001. This figure represents 48.4 percent of the total fatalities in the conflict.”
So I guess the fact that, during that period, the IRA killed roughly 60% of the people killed on 9/11, 350% of the people killed in the second deadliest terrorist attack in the world and approximately 1800% of the people killed in January by Muslim extremists makes them great guys in your book.
Jim (ad29d8) — 3/9/2011 @ 6:37 pmWhat’s that cliche from the first few months after 9/11? Something like: if you shut down the hearings then the terrorists win.
We already know that the Judeo-Christian West is compatible with freedom, because they essentially invented it. And they’re not exactly stingy about franchising either.
One of the strengths of Western Civilization is its reverence for reason, for working things out, and for being unwilling to overlong tolerate the holding of mutually exclusive ideas and ideals. It took nearly a century and then the bloodiest of civil wars but the United States worked out the slavery vs. all-men-are-created-equal inconsistency. (It only took another century to get to the Civil Rights Act that took that logical contradiction another lap closer to resolution.)
So given our history, Americans aren’t all that likely to be unendingly patient with this sort of cognitive dissonance.
I’ve quoted you and linked to you here.
http://consul-at-arms2.blogspot.com/2011/03/re-ground-zero-imam-islam-is-religion.html
Consul-At-Arms (dcde1b) — 3/9/2011 @ 6:56 pmDave,
When you are residing in arab country and having to go there, hae an auto accident, get a ticket, stand in long lines, go to sporting events or have a child in an arab hospital, once you are in everyday life here (not in a company compound but out on the street) traveling in several arab countries – you realize that whats reported is farther from what the truth is.
I mean we dont believe CNN whe they report in the US but we seem to believe everything they say about the arabs hook line and sinker, take a step back, not everyone is your enemy in fact far from it.
The sad facts are terrorists kill everyone, mostly their own though
We had a chance to engage soneone and you chose not to, thats fine, but you did have a chance – so to me, there is nothing that seperates your propaganda from theirs, unfortunately.
I dont think you even understand the basics, elementary basics of the war on terror – we are fighting terrorists – not muslims – the muslim people do not claim these people as their own.
If they were our enemies the Saudis and the emiraties could have dozens of weapons of mass destruction, they have unimaginable financial resources.
EricPWJohnson (6a2bb1) — 3/10/2011 @ 2:22 amPeter King is a hypocrite, he supported the terrorist group IRA, who killed innocent British people, but hey I guess that was OK, right? Killing innocent people is OK, as long as they are not born is the United States, yup that sounds about right. I guess Jesus Christ would give all you extra points for that, NOT!
No, there are no dancing in the street when Catholics hear about a pedophile priest, but there has been a concerted effort to Deny, Deflect, Defend this “Enemy Overseas” the “Catholic Church ”, I don’t even think you could deny that fact. What would Jesus Christ, say about this so called Church.
47 seconds in;
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/377120/march-10-2011/peter-king-understands-violent-radicalism
Montana (d10380) — 3/11/2011 @ 9:32 amYou are a barking moonbat shouting BUNNIES, “montana”. That is all.
JÐ (17012e) — 3/11/2011 @ 9:46 amHey montana Your liberal hero Ted Kennedy supported the IRA too.
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/11/2011 @ 9:46 ammontana – Since you are not objecting to the hearings themselves, would you be more comfortable if impeached judge and alleged sexual harasser Alcee Hastings were conducting them?
daleyrocks (ae76ce) — 3/11/2011 @ 10:14 amAlcee Hastings would be indicting the tea party. Whilst invoking Ted Kennedy and his defense of the IRA trying to defend Ireland from britains wingnut tyranny.
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/11/2011 @ 10:19 amDohBiden – That would be a good distraction for the obviously raaaaaacist sexual harassment lawsuit just filed against him.
daleyrocks (ae76ce) — 3/11/2011 @ 10:27 amMontana
okay let’s say king is a hypocrite. so there is a contradiction between how he feels about the IRA v. islamofacism.
So… what? Suddenly he is wrong about islamofascism? Suddenly its not a problem? We have a radical islam problem. Whether the guy pointing that out is a hypocrite or not, that doesn’t change anything.
At worst you could accuse him of some kind of bigotry. but it seems to be a bigoted easing of standards, in the case of the ira. he is right to be concerned about radical islam.
Its like with jefferson. he wrote that all men are created equal. but he kept slaves. he was a hypocrite. but that didn’t mean he was wrong to say that all men were created equal (except i would have said all persons, not all men).
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 3/11/2011 @ 10:33 amDaleyrocks Isn’t it obvious that Alcee did not have sexual relations with that woman.
DohBiden (984d23) — 3/11/2011 @ 10:37 amI agree with Montana, but my point was that we can’t get bogged down combating the obvious inanity and lose sight of the bigger picture, which is that this is but a manufactured distraction to keep our attention away from the fact that they are engineering a systematic takeover of this country (dam Republicans). I was never a conspiracy theorist before, but it is right in front of you if you can look past the smoke and mirrors.
J Brandeis Sperandeo (d10380) — 3/14/2011 @ 2:16 pmWow, winning elections is a “systematic takeover”?
Guess you aren’t fond of democracy, eh Sperandeo.
SPQR (26be8b) — 3/14/2011 @ 2:19 pm