Patterico's Pontifications


Convicted Bomber Brett Kimberlin and the Left’s Defense of Him

Filed under: Brett Kimberlin,General — Patterico @ 6:55 pm

Socrates/Prepostericity has the post.

86 Responses to “Convicted Bomber Brett Kimberlin and the Left’s Defense of Him”

  1. Nice of Brad to out Socratease in Meat Space, the weaselly misinformation spreading turd.

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  2. WISH TV on their 50th anniversary show had news film (tape?) of him marching a man down the street with a shotgun to his head. This is public record.

    Hazy (996c34)

  3. It sounds likes socrates has someone like iamadimwit stalking him.

    JD (d4bbf1)

  4. imadimwit is a stalker type. Does it use a different screen name over at Bradbarf?

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  5. I skimmed that guys website, he seems kind of crankish.

    TT (d17760)

  6. And yet he was right to call out Kimberlin as a convicted bomber, wasn’t he?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  7. Since most lefties are one step below pond scum on the evolutionary ladder, the fact that they would defend a piece of crap like Kimberlin is hardly front page news.

    Dave Surls (9f9d2f)

  8. Pat,

    I think the guy did get a Kimberlinist apologist to admit he was convicted of a crime

    Where is the suit now, anyone know?

    EricPWJohnson (5cc53e)

  9. That nutcase Socrates is your expert? LOL! He was running all over the place posting all kinds of crap like he was a pedophile and stuff. He is a maniac. Good to see he finally got served for his cyberstalking.

    Chris Hooten (24973f)

  10. While the alleged crimes of Kimberlin were some 31 years ago, the current crimes are being committed by Socrates. But I guess that’s OK with you guys, especially you DA types?

    Chris Hooten (24973f)

  11. Before you whine, excuse me, he was convicted some 31 years ago. By the way, I don’t see any coverage of the recent actual voter fraud that occurred, and the conviction. Oh wait, that was a Republican, no wonder. Nevermind.

    Chris Hooten (24973f)

  12. The guy is really impressive for standing up against this degree of evil, even when it’s superficially on his side of many political issues and particularly issues about our elections.

    We should all treat him with a healthy dose of respect. He’s the one who had the decency and wherewithal to note that convicted bombers are not trustworthy. If the entire left was like Socrates our country would be drastically better.

    Dustin (75f8e1)

  13. True, Dustin, I mean some talking of speaking ‘truth to power’ but there are real consequences both physical, and financial to confronting the likes of Kimberlin, I mean you couldn’t write a character like that, it would be too unbelievable

    rainier wolfcastle (bcb6cc)

  14. I’am shocked shocked i tell you the left are defending a convicted bomber………NOT

    Obama (984d23)

  15. Damn sockpuppet.

    DohBiden (984d23)

  16. Patterico – Bomber Brett has been a very busy boy according to the case log I was able to dig up from his suit against Socratese in Montgomery County, Maryland. He loves filing motions apparently, even attempting to compel you, Google, Yahoo, Blogger to divulge info about Socratese if you had any. Looks like the Judge sees that Brett is just fishing.

    What a freaking nuisance these tolerant leftards make of themselves to prevent the truth coming out and to stifle speech!

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  17. Thanks for the plug, Patterico.

    Daleyrocks, I would post the prove but it would include my real name and an email address. Down the road I might post it. I showed Patterico screenshots of my proof. Maybe in the future depending on how this plays out, I’ll put it up.

    The dimwitted cyberstalker posted a personal email from myself to Brad. I had always sensed Brad was behind the outing of my name and an email address, but that sealed it as fact.

    Anyone have an idea on what Hazy’s talking about? Is that sarcasm or muddying the waters? Probably the former.

    TT, I admit I am a bit eccentric, but the same can be said of most people. It’s called having a personality. Maybe we can look at this beyond right versus left. This is a story that many of us are fascinated by despite politics. I realise there is stuff at my blog that is going to turn off the readers of this blog. I don’t read much of this website for the same reason. But here we have a topic that transcends political differences. It is on we familiar with the story to articulate it to the best of our abilities so newbies can get a grasp on it. Calling each other pinko commies or fascists will get us nowhere.

    Dave Surls, I think it’s a mistake to say the Left is supporting this guy. It is more like a few people working with him purporting to represent the Left. You don’t see any lefties with gravitas in this guy’s corner.

    Eric, this lawsuit is not public knowledge other than what I have provided. It is clearly at the stage in which Kimberlin is trying to establish my real name, soc. sec. #, that I made the posts in question, etc..

    The title saying Kimberlin admits to one crime was my take on one sentence he wrote, nothing less nothing more. The thread at DU was pure gold. It shows that Kimberlin wants the world to think he was only convcted for selling weed. Yet it goes beyond that. She wrote that he sold it to high powered Republicans, something by the way which has never been proven and hard to believe. Singer even concluded that his selling pot to Dan Quayle was in all likelihhod just another Kimberlin lie.

    Larisa was directly asked to comment on the domestic terrorism conviction. Oh well, some of this gets repetitive. It actually will take newbies and fence sitters a bit of elbow grease to get the whole story. E.G. There is that thingie about Michael Connell purportedly being threatened by Karl Rove. But there’s much more than that. I put in a lot of elbow grease. That’s why Kimberlin wants anything related to himself on my blog deleted. I must have nailed this story, no?

    Dustin, thank you. You get it. We could definitely be friends in real life, drink some brew, talk sports. Maybe we’d just have to keep politics out of it. I get that this is a conservative leaning blog and I am a guest. That’s why I don’t take any of the stereotypical “He’s a Libtard” comments seriously. It’s a credit to yourself, Patterico, and others that you are willing to hear someone out despite our profound differences in ideology.

    That’s also a good point you make about how we can be duped by folks because they seem to stand for the same values as ourselves. It’s happened to me a number of times. It doesn’t happen much anymore.

    Think of wolves in sheep clothes. They get easier to spot once someone is burned a few times.

    Rainier Wolfcastle, you said it brother. You can’t make things like this up. That’s why Kimberlin has eventually lost any gravitas he developed through his new incarnarion as an internet activist. You can only come up with so many lies, before someone says wait a second. Think Vincent Gambini of My Cousin Vinny.

    Nobody- I mean nobody – pulls the wool over the eyes of a Gambini

    Mark Singer’s book isn’t just called Citizen K. Added to that is, “The Deeply Weird American Journey of Brett Kimberlin.”

    Daleyrocks, I would be very happy to find out the Judge is on to what’s really going on here. I emailed the link to this recent entry to a number of folks including Patterico, Mr. Singer, the EFF, and others just to let them know this was going on.

    I think one of the best parts of my new essay was on the difference between public and private figures, and how difficult it is for a public one to prove defamation. The cyberstalking charge is simply ludicrous.

    The link was also emailed to the Maryland court. I’ve emailed them a few times but never got a response.

    It’d be nice for someone from the Maryland branch of the EFF or ACLU to help me out. Like maybe a reader out there knows someone who knows someone who will see this could be an improtant case to help shape internet law concerning freedom of speech. I’m not looking for fame or fortune. (This is one of those times I’m not going to proofread. Thanks everyone for your time and consideration.)

    Prepostericity (1192be)

  18. Prepostericity – Thanks for the comment. My guess is that Brett’s suit itself consists completely of hot air.

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  19. Daley,

    Check your e-mail.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  20. Wow, sorry for all the typos. I saw them while preparing the above post for my blog.

    Another idea has crossed my mind. It relates to how Larisa has tried to spin Brett’s previous crimes as having been merely a relatively harmless one, that he was basically a political prisoner.

    I could perhaps type up some excerpts from Mark’s book on how Kimberlin learned to fly as a teenager and became a millionaire by around the age of 20 through his drug smuggling operation.

    The only real gripe I have with the book is it doesn’t have an index, so it’s not so easy to navigate for projects like that.

    Prepostericity (1192be)

  21. I took notes on it when I read it, and one day I will post about it.

    Maybe after he sues me.

    Can anyone help out Prepostericity with legal help?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  22. Patterico, this is my humble opinion. I don’t think he’s going to sue you. I haven’t seen anything you posted that isn’t proven fact. He knows you’re a prosecutor well informed on the law who takes precautions against writing libel. I think he wants to bully you to stop posting on him and get my stuff deleted. He probably thinks the stuff written up by Liberty Chick isn’t going to be read anyway by people he markets for donations. He obviously can’t have all the copies of Citizen K burned, but perhaps he fears excerpts of it being posted. I have put up a few of those in the past. He knows the people of Indianapolis are aware of his shenanigans, but maybe he rationalises that as being contained to one state.

    When I first made a name for myself as Prepostericity at DU and DKos, I got in touch with Mr. Singer. He then told me freelance journalist Joe Lauria was interested in my schtick. We talked on the phone for a couple hours. I forget which one told me, but I somewhat recall something about Kimberlin thinking Mark was behind my blogging. An interesting digression is that Mr. Lauria apparently had his identity stolen by someone else from that milieu named Jason Leopold.

    For those who know a lot of backstory, you know what I’m talking about there. I recall first hearing of this website years ago when I was trying to figure out some of it. There was also that Bev Harris, Andy Stephenson stuff. But yet again these are major digressions.

    Patterico, I picture you as being like the nice police chief in Beverly Hills Cop. Maybe I can be Axel Foley and Dustin and Daley can be the two cops. Not trying to offend, just being eccentric again. (Yikes, it takes me more time to proofread than to write these friggen posts.)

    Prepostericity (1192be)

  23. I think he wants to bully you to stop posting on him and get my stuff deleted.

    How’s that working out for him so far?

    Has he heard of the Barbra Streisand effect?

    I see by the Maryland docket that his BS motion against me was denied. I didn’t even have to lift a finger.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  24. I see that the top Google entry for Brett Kimberlin is my site.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  25. No, looking at google it doesn’t appear Brett is aware of the Barbara Streisand effect. When I first got started on this, the results didn’t look at all like they do now. He’s getting hammered from all angles.

    I’m wary of posting too many of the links because of the spam filter, but here are a few.

    1. Leftist Blogger’s Criminal Past Raises Questions About His Real Intent

    There’s a lot of info in there. Here’s a fair use excerpt:

    And it is that civil judgment that may explain Kimberlin’s blog sites and much of his existence since prison. Because of the judgment, which with interest is now more than $3 million, anything Kimberlin has in his own name is subject to seizure. He lives in his mother’s home in Bethesda and operates the websites out of there. It’s hardly a happy place, though; Kimberlin’s mother has sued him and won a $150,000 judgment against him, and he and his wife have traded domestic abuse charges, according to local records. It even may explain the causes of the moment on which the websites focus their energy, likely to generate cash.

    In the past three years, Velvet Revolution and Justice Through Music have raised more than $1.5 million….

    2. Looking at the left though an accountant’s eyes

    3. The Dallas Morning News links to this page under the tag of defense.
    Convicted Bomber Brett Kimberlin and the Left’s Defense of Him

    Prepostericity (1192be)

  26. “I don’t think he’s going to sue you.”

    Are you kidding me?

    Bomber-boy is a public figure, as well as a convicted felon.

    His chances of winning a defamation suit lie somewhere between there ain’t no how and there ain’t no way.

    Dave Surls (ce67b1)

  27. He can still sue, Dave Surls.

    He will never win and he will never shut me up. I promise you those things.

    But he can still sue. Anyone can sue.

    If they’re looking to publicize the matter, that is.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  28. “He can still sue, Dave Surls.”

    He could file suit…but, as you say, he ain’t going to win.

    Looks to me like he’d also have to find counsel that would be willing to take a no-win defamation case to court, pro bono, on account of bomber-boy’s financial situation. And, I’d say that’s pretty unlikely.

    Anyway, what’s he going to sue for?

    I can call him a convicted felon ’til the cows come home, and if he files suit, it gets tossed the second a judge looks at it. What I say might well be defamatory…but, it also happens to be true.

    All things considered, methinks, we can say pretty much anything we like about bomber-boy, without fear of legal retribution.

    Dave Surls (8bd99e)

  29. I wouldn’t bet on his financial situation really being as dire as some of the above would make it appear. He probably has no assets in the same sense that Al Sharpton has no assets. Everything is in a different name, and all expenses are paid for by generous “strangers”, but somehow he lives well. I also wouldn’t bet that his mother’s suit against him is a sign of acrimony between them; it seems to me more likely to be part of his insurance against having to pay his creditors.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  30. “Dave Surls, I think it’s a mistake to say the Left is supporting this guy. It is more like a few people working with him purporting to represent the Left. You don’t see any lefties with gravitas in this guy’s corner.”


    Well, I remember when Carl Levin was in his corner. Levin might not have a whole lot of gravitas, but he’s pretty high up the Democrat food chain.

    Must be nice to have a friendly U.S. senatior around to make sure the bulls don’t toss you in the hole when you misbehave. I would have given a lot for a friend like that when I was a troubled youth.

    Don’t kid yourself. This guy has connections, even if they’re just connections of political convenience.

    Dave Surls (8bd99e)

  31. “I also wouldn’t bet that his mother’s suit against him is a sign of acrimony between them; it seems to me more likely to be part of his insurance against having to pay his creditors.”

    That idea passed through my mind as well. But, then again, I have a nasty suspicious mind.

    Dave Surls (8bd99e)

  32. Looks to me like he’d also have to find counsel that would be willing to take a no-win defamation case to court, pro bono, on account of bomber-boy’s financial situation. And, I’d say that’s pretty unlikely.

    Dude, you’re not paying attention. He is a former jailhouse lawyer who has filed over 100 lawsuits. He is going pro per and he already sued Socrates.

    He would have to be stupid to sue me. I’m sure Ron Coleman would be in heaven if he got to depose Kimberlin. It would be endless blog fodder. Endless.

    But people sentenced to prison don’t usually go there because they’re smart.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  33. Sorry for being unclear. Kimberlin did have some strong lefty allies back when he was put in isolation during the Presidential election. That’s because it’s human nature to believe what we want to hear. It’s what initially duped Mark Singer along with having a tight deadline for Tina Brown.

    I was saying nowadays with this comeback tour of his.

    Actually one of his present supporters may be a Republican. Attorney Cliff Arnebeck has been the one leading the counsel for VR’s campaign in Ohio. That guy used to work for Bob Dole.

    I would venture to say Kimberlin and Friedman are more likely self-promoting libertarians than actual liberals. Perhaps opportunists is the better word. One time I looked through old BradBlog archives, before it first emerged with the Clint Curtis inspired jumpstart into the zeitgeist. I could have sworn he was supporting Pat Buchanan a bit. Or a guest blogger posted good words for Buchanan and Brad concurred. I don’t exactly remember but wrote about it.

    I think these guys are looking for the flavour of the day, whatever issue they feel can muster up some donations. I also never thought that perhaps the lawsuit by the mom was a ruse. Could very well be, considering he is still living with her.

    Prepostericity (1192be)

  34. Kimberlin from way back figured out how to check for which way the wind was blowing. That’s why he established a hippie whatever vegetarian restaurant to help launder his drug profits. He was obviously not a peacenik considering he set bombs. He just saw there was a market for new agers and folks like that. For you youngins out there, you need to picture how things were like after the chaos of the sixties. People were looking for calm and groovy times. Those were the folks he marketed to. The guy is highly intelligent. I can only theorise perhaps he took heavy drugs before his brain fully formed and at some point lost the inner control not to hurt others that nearly all of us had instilled by loving parents. I think he actually gave up drugs for good by 18. By that point he had found a new drug called money. I think he might have a very high iq for what it’s worth. Yet he seems to have a blind spot where he feels he can say anything and it will be believed, like the “that’s the ticket” guy from Saturday Night Live.

    Prepostericity (1192be)

  35. @Prepostericity – Libertarians eschew violence outside the context of self-defense. Kimberlin is no sort of libertarian.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  36. Scott, so do lefties and anyone else with an ounce of decency. I think they are acting as being lefties rather than actually being so. Like a brand label. It’s ok to disagree. I don’t see either of them fighting for the poor. I see them asking for donations. Man, Brad’s constantly begging for money at the end of his entries. One of the links I provided above suggest an audit should be done on Velvet Revolution.

    Prepostericity (1192be)

  37. While the alleged crimes of Kimberlin were some 31 years ago, the current crimes are being committed by Socrates. But I guess that’s OK with you guys, especially you DA types?

    Comment by Chris Hooten — 3/5/2011 @ 1:44 am

    Kimberlin’s crimes are “alleged” despite his convictions — but Socrates, Hooten claims, has committed crimes. Not allegedly!

    Hooten’s eager defense of a convicted terrorist is nothing new. The defamation of Socrates is.

    Why does Chris Hooten love terrorists?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  38. “He is going pro per”

    Considering that he spent about 17 years in federal prison, and has millions of dollars worth of civil judgements against him, he might want to consider hiring a new lawyer.

    Dave Surls (8bd99e)

  39. “the current crimes are being committed by Socrates.”

    You have to admire Hooters. Here we are talking about defamation, and he steps up to the plate and shows us exactly how you can put yourself in an actionable postition.

    Well done, Chrissy.

    Dave Surls (8bd99e)

  40. If Socrates indeed has to get a lawyer, I hope that lawyer investigates whether Socrates has a defamation claim against Chris Hooten for saying Socrates has committed crimes.

    On its face it looks like a pretty damn good defamation claim from here.

    I don’t think Hooten understands the trouble he’s getting himself into, potentially. Socrates is not a public figure. Even if he were, it’s my educated guess that Hooten has shown reckless disregard for the truth in making these accusations against Socrates. (This is not my legal advice to anyone, mind you. Just some observations from a public citizen watching another citizen walk into a metaphorical buzz saw.)

    Let it be known that I will fully cooperate with Socrates’s lawyer should Chris Hooten’s statements lead to a lawsuit for defamation.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  41. Scott, so do lefties and anyone else with an ounce of decency.

    While many would opt to follow “violence as a last resort”, one of the main tenants of libertarianism is that violence won’t be used as a means of coercion – that is to say, I won’t beat you or threaten to beat you in order to get you to do what I say.

    The last 3 years of so of leftie behavior has lead me to suspect they don’t feel the same.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  42. If there was ever any doubt about crissyhooten ….it appears that talking about convictions for bombing, and drug smuggling are alleged, which causes him to resume his role as apologist for Kimberlin, as well as his partnership with Friedman. Brava, beeyotch.

    Election integriÞy, my arse.

    JD (d48c3b)

  43. Kimberlin seems like the vocal variant of that Philadelphia fellow, Einhorn, who mixed the counterculture with murder, then had Specter cover
    for him, then skipped town. Highly amoral, highly

    narciso (bcb6cc)

  44. Scott, so do lefties and anyone else with an ounce of decency.

    That makes no sense. Leftist politics are all about force. Lefties believe that people ought to be forced at gunpoint to do things they don’t want to do, to refrain from doing things they want to do, and to give away their property. Socialism is inherently violent, and requires that people be forcibly restrained, imprisoned, or killed. Even leftists who would never raise a hand against another person themselves want and support the much more terrible violence of the state.

    Libertarians, on the other hand, reject violence not only as a means of implementing their program but as part of the program itself. Capitalism consists of how people behave in the absence of force; the decisions people make when they needn’t fear anyone taking their stuff away, or hurting them if they don’t give it away. Capitalism is by definition the system that says the only way to get someone else’s property is to persuade them to give it to you of their own free will.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  45. After reading the Indystar stories and the comments here, I’m struck by the birds of a feather angle. You have Bill Ayers and Kimberlin, two terrorist bombers with political connections walking the streets while their victims are dead.

    Bill M (b85979)

  46. I don’t know. We should be wary of veering too far off-topic debating which side of the political spectrum is more prone to committing mayhem. I’m not pointing any fingers because three more get pointed right back at me.

    You guys make some good points, well some of you. But come on, you never hear of deadheads doing that. Google the definition of peacenik. You don’t realise how foolish it is when some of you for example start talking about Obama being a socialist whore. Thinking people are reminded of Joseph McCarthy. Some of you need to check out Robert Altemeyer and his brilliant expose on the authoritarian character. It’s the dogmatic among you, not saying many, who are potentially forming the bedrock for fascism to emerge in the United States.

    Just look at how Sarah Palin put up that picture with gun sights aimed at Democrats, and then oops, it happened. Who’s been bombing and shooting up abortion clinics? Both sides as in you and me look foolish if we’re going to make generalisations about which side of the political dinner table is more inherently violent. Let’s just say no to this constant hammering of divide and conquer. This is America.

    The person with the screen name of Chris Hooten certainly put his foot in his mouth. Calling Kimberlin’s crimes alleged, wow, what’s up with that?

    I’m what one would refer to as a non-lawsuit kind of dude. I am actually the anti-Kimberlin. I couldn’t care less about money. I’d never sue. Well, never say never. I’ve never been convicted of a felony. I don’t ask for donations. Now I’m not saying asking for donations is a bad thing in itself. But what has Velvet Revolution accomplished with all that money they generated? I’m a fricken nobody from Massachusets who blogs. Whoop-da-de-doo.

    As Patterico pointed out before, this could all boil down to Barbara Streisand. The more Brett shouts at people to stop posting about him, the more is being written. First it was one or two lonely threads at Democratic Underground and the Time Magazine article. Then it was just me for a long time with a couple isolated posts here and there by people from Indiana. I’m a humble guy, but that’s the truth. There were a few other people debunking the Michael Connell story, but I was the only one who focused in on Brett Kimberlin’s past and his internet incarnation.

    Then the cavalry finally arrived. Liberty Chick. Patterico. Michael Jesse of The Indianapolis Star.

    Narciso does a good job of describing Kimberlin. Brett has an amazing sense of how to tap into the counter culture or folks on the left to open up their wallets. However, there’s no proof Kimberlin ever murdered anyone, just circumstantial evidence. Mr. Scyphers was the key witness. When he died of illness, the investigation got stymied for good. Anyone who has seen Twelve Angry Men knows we are all innocent until proven guilty. Though we do know for a fact that he set those bombs which eventually led to Mr. Delong taking his life. There is so much that Kimberlin cannot deny, so for him to say he only did one crime, that is an outright lie.

    Someone should make a movie on him. I’d love to see the scene where he gets busted hiding under a desk or something trying to eat the evidence of his apparent plan to impersonate a DoD officer. His story is utterly fascinating yet ultimately tragic all the way around from the Delongs to even himself.

    His granddad was an aviation bigwig who taught him how to fly. He parlayed that into drug smuggling trips. There’s so much to this story such a movie if done right would need an intermission.

    I feel a lot better about things since writing this current essay. Brett appears to be underestimating my ability to git it done. It’s time for me to cowboy up. It’s time for me to respond.

    Prepostericity (1192be)

  47. “Just look at how Sarah Palin put up that picture with gun sights aimed at Democrats, and then oops, it happened.”

    Prepostericity – That example is really beneath contempt, especially given the martial rhetoric typically used in political campaigns. The Tucson shootings were done by a deranged leftist by all evidence. You should be ashamed.

    Have you checked out the signage being used in Madison? Seriously, get a grip.

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  48. See, that is the thing, daley. There is Teh Narrative™ taking place. Feelings, not facts. And I find that the Left projects its own issues onto the Right with a great deal of regularity.

    Which is how people who point fingers about bulls-eyes on maps are suddenly silent when people are physically assaulted by union goons. Or folks with billy clubs are standing in front of voting areas. Or just one word: Pelosi.

    It’s all different with a “D” associated with it, you see.

    The “people on your side are bringing America toward fascism” nonsense is a great example.

    Oh well.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  49. Abortion clinic bombings versus ecotard terror bombings. You be the judge.

    Fundamental assumption flaw – Not all pro-life people are on the right and not all ecotards are on the left.

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  50. Prepostericity, I generally agree with not making generalizations about how one side does more of [insert nasty tactic here]. Having been on the receiving end of some nasty stuff from the “right,” I am not a fan of the holier than thou attitude of political discussion, so we agree there.

    But the Sarah Palin example is a bad, bad example to make your point. That map had nothing to do with that shooting. And there is plenty of nastiness from the left, much of it mainstreamed. So much it’s impossible to keep up with it all.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  51. @ Prepostericity,

    Just look at how Sarah Palin put up that picture with gun sights aimed at Democrats, and then oops, it happened. Who’s been bombing and shooting up abortion clinics? Both sides as in you and me look foolish if we’re going to make generalisations about which side of the political dinner table is more inherently violent. Let’s just say no to this constant hammering of divide and conquer. This is America.

    Precisely – this is America, where there is the freedom to spout heated rhetoric, which both sides of the aisle clearly do.

    And attempting an equivalence between Palin’s picture targeting Dems in crosshairs with real abortion bombings is simply dishonest and not valid. Really?

    Rather than being offended or finding fault with the rhetoric itself, what I find more troubling is that people are so quick to use them to fit their cause: assuming Palin’s crosshairs targets had anything to do with Loughner (paging Mr. Krugman). This is giving meaning and value to what is a figure of speech, a metaphor, a part of political conversation. To make it be more than that to suit a narrative is dishonest.

    This thread (and the entire Kimberlin issue)has been fascinating to read and hats off to those like you brave enough to face down one like Kimberlin.

    However, as daley points out, this does seem beneath you. For some reason, I find myself disappointed to see you go off track.

    Dana (9f3823)

  52. Hooten confirms our opinion of him with his voluntary association with violent criminals.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  53. Prepostericity is an idiot……..No suprise there.

    DohBiden (984d23)

  54. suprise*

    DohBiden (984d23)

  55. Patterico:

    If Socrates indeed has to get a lawyer, I hope that lawyer investigates whether Socrates has a defamation claim against Chris Hooten for saying Socrates has committed crimes.

    LOL! You are a fool of a lawyer to even make such a statement. Have you seen the insane drivel that Socrates has posted all over the place about all kinds of people? And you are holding that complete nutjob up as some sort of source of accurate information? That guy is virtual clearinghouse of libelous garbage. LOL at your wonky little lawyer fantasies about me being sued for saying socrates is a crank, as he is quite obviously a crank, and saying so does not constitute libel. He was posting that Kimberlin was a pedophile all over the place amongst other things. That is what REAL libel looks like. I would say you are being sarcastic, but I am beginning to believe you are just stupid.

    Chris Hooten (24973f)

  56. Crissyhooten hearts domestic terrorists and drug smugglers, or so it seems, based on his commenting history.

    You stated socrates had commitþed felonies, and Kimberlin was alleged to have. Care to edit that?

    JD (822109)

  57. Milky nostril squirts!

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  58. Patterico:

    Why does Chris Hooten love terrorists?

    Yup, that confirms it, you are officially stupid. Disregarding the obvious that I don’t love terrorists, I definitely don’t like cyberstalkers, even if they are stalking someone I disagree with, or even hate and loathe. But you on the other hand… You love them nuts! 85% of the drivel on this blog was generated by conspiracy theory nuts, to entertain the readers, also conspiracy theory nuts. Apparently it is perfectly fine for some fringe cyberstalker to post endless drivel, some true, a lot not, about someone who committed a crime 31 years ago, and has since paid his debt to society, and has a family. I don’t know that person, but I know that much about him. I don’t support that person, because I don’t know that person. However, I do know now that socrates was apparently posting everywhere he could anything he could claim about that guy, including that he was a pedophile. He might find that it is not a good idea to do that to anyone, without some kind of proof. You are a shining example of our justice system, and D.A.’s in general, with your implicit support of such baseless libel on ideological grounds, instead of the legal ones you promised to uphold for your job. I hope they cut your budget first, and the most. Surely you would support reducing the size of the government?

    Chris Hooten (24973f)

  59. LOL at your wonky little lawyer fantasies about me being sued for saying socrates is a crank, as he is quite obviously a crank, and saying so does not constitute libel.

    Perhaps not — nor did I ever claim otherwise.

    Saying he committed crimes? That is another matter altogether.

    If Socrates decides to sue you, I will pay the filing fee. I am quite serious.

    As for Kimberlin being a pedophile, look up the definition, look at the available evidence in the public record, and draw your own conclusions. You want to defend his interest in a young, young woman? Doesn’t surprise me.

    Patterico (53b70b)

  60. Hooten, as unreliable as Socrates may appear, his claims have more factual foundation than yours ever have had.

    And your only reliability is in your defense of a violent criminal.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  61. What really gets me is the venom from some on the left towards Socrates. The venom from the right sometimes can be written off as normal left v right agitation, but the anger from Chris Hooten or Larisa Alexandrova types is a sure sign of anger at telling the truth.

    Kimberlin is, in fact, extremely creepy. No one was charged for the execution style murder of Julia Scyphers, who insisted that her granddaughter go on no more creepy roadtrips with Brett Kimberlin. Brett reacted to this new rule by threatening to kill himself, and then someone miraculously executed Julia. And as the investigation began, someone set bombs in various places, such as a police car, in a way that made it impossible to complete the investigation. And Brett Kimberlin was proven beyond any reasonable doubt to have set those bombs.

    Chris Hooten defends this and dissembles against Socrates for telling an ugly truth. Socrates is passionate, and I disagree with him very strongly on things dear to me, but he’s obviously an honorable man who won’t abide dishonorable people, even if they agree with him. Chris Hooten, on the other hand, admitted to giving money to Brad Friedman.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  62. Socrates got the Chris Hooten style treatment at Daily Kos and Democratic Underground, too.

    He asked Larissa Alexandrova (that’s not her real name, but she’s a huge crank if you’re not aware of her) about her affiliation with Brett Kimberlin, noting some coincidences in their background (Brett, once released from prison, moved to the Ukraine to work for some weirdos connected to his associates from prison, and when he returned to the USA, Larissa also showed up stateside, and they both peddled the same ‘give me money to thwart this injusice’ con in the same network of scam websites). Larissa also was the loudest Brett defender I’ve ever seen, claiming he was exonerated and even compensated by the US Government. It was reasonable to assume they were connected.

    For asking about their connection, people would ban Socrates, delete his comments, and then accuse him of being a stalker. But all Socrates did was point to the facts, and stand up to liars. There’s been a very consistent quality to the ‘he’s crazy and obsessed’ reaction he gets to truths people like Chris Hooten do not want the world to know about.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  63. “LOL! You are a fool of a lawyer to even make such a statement.”

    On the contrary, Chrissy. The statement you made about Socrates:

    “the current crimes are being committed by Socrates.”

    …is defamatory on its face (we call that defamation per se). If the statement is untrue, it means that not only could Socrates sue your stupid ass for libel, but he wouldn’t even have to prove that he was in any way damaged by that statement.

    “A plaintiff need not show special damages (e.g., damages to the plaintiff’s property, business, trade, profession or occupation, including expenditures that resulted from the defamation) if the statement is defamation per se. A statement is defamation per se if it defames the plaintiff on its face, that is, without the need for extrinsic evidence to explain the statement’s defamatory nature. See Cal. Civ. Code § 45a; Yow v. National Enquirer, Inc. 550 F.Supp.2d 1179, 1183 (E.D. Cal. 2008).”

    “For example, an allegation that the plaintiff is guilty of a crime is defamatory on its face pursuant to Cal. Civil Code § 45a…”

    He might win such a suit and he might not, but he definitely has cause to file a law suit against you.

    Like I said, thanks for the practical demonstration of exactly how one puts oneself in an actionable posititon.

    Dave Surls (926822)

  64. Interesting from her wiki, she came to notice in 2005, in a publication, that matches what Brett Kimberlin intended for Velvet Revolution, to undermine the electoral system, then she leaks
    the ‘secret prison’ in Poland, and insinuates there
    was a dangerous afteraction assessment of damage from the Plame affair, actually proved false by the one who conducted the assessment, RE Pound

    narciso (bcb6cc)

  65. You love them nuts! 85% of the drivel on this blog was generated by conspiracy theory nuts, to entertain the readers, also conspiracy theory nuts.

    This is really rich in irony, given how crissyhooten rushes to defend Friedman and Kimberlin with such verve. It is also completely without merit, but we have come to expect that from you. Are you on another bender?

    JD (d4bbf1)

  66. You guys just don’t get the concept of the pot calling the kettle black, do you? A judge would laugh that case out of court after looking at what socrates has done over the years. If you want to fantasize about me getting sued, whatever. That is bizarre and unwarranted, but whatever. You seem very willing to cause whatever harm you can to those you perceive as “opposition.” Whatever. I’m just glad most Americans aren’t like that. You guys represent the fringe conspiracy theorist/tea part types who couldn’t govern yourselves out of paper sack, and couldn’t compromise if you demanded $100, and they were willing to give you $99.99, because of your “principles.” You would rather let the whole deal go sour, and watch the ensuing trainwreck. What leaders.,, And yes that was metaphor for the fiasco in WI, duh!

    Chris Hooten (24973f)

  67. I challenge Chris Hooten to post, with a link and quote, a single defamatory comment Socrates has made.

    If he cannot, it proves that he is defending Kimberlin, a convicted bomber, without evidence. Meaning he defends Kimberlin just because Chris Hooten likes defending terrorists.

    I firmly predict there will not be a single quote and link from the terrorist lover Chris Hooten.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  68. Jethro says I better link up or I support terrorist, heh heh. What an idiot. You said jump, I didn’t jump. Now what? Now you get to say whatever about me, because I didn’t do what you said? Right. You’re as bad as socrates with spreading misinformation. I don’t have to show you, because you damn well know the kind of crap he posted. Much of it has been removed. You KNOW what I am talking about, so why are you feigning ignorance? I am talking to YOU, not everyone else, so I have nothing to prove. I already KNOW that YOU KNOW the crap he was posting all over. And you chose to use him anyways. What a champ. Oh wait, I still haven’t answered your question yet, have I? Darn.

    Chris Hooten (24973f)

  69. Sorry it took me a while to get back on this thread. You guys took me the wrong way. Of course Sarah Palin and her gun sight thingie had nothing to do with the shootings in Arizona. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.

    It was an oopsie because one of the people on her list got shot. By the way, the person who went nuts doesn’t appear to be on either side of the political spectrum, unless we start taking nutjobs seriously. Look at Von Brunn and Joseph Stack. We could try to disect what their politics are, but the bottom line is they don’t deserve that kind of respect. This isn’t like the guy who shot McKinley. Now there was a lefty anarchist for you.

    Jared Loughner seems to be a hybrid of the Alex Jones’ gold nut types combined with way out there conspiracy theory. I say way out, because there are a few conspiracy theories I heavily lean towards believing in, for example that the fatal shot on JFK came from the Grassy Knoll.

    This is why I don’t like dabbling in antagonistic political chatter. It’s too easy for us to be misconstrued. Also, I’m kind of busy figuring out the other thing. Maybe someday I’ll devote myself to one of your threads in the future. Just a suggestion though to ones who get into calling people libtards or other forms of excessive name calling. I feel such an attitude means one is not worthy of being responded to. It’s always in our best interests to not come off as an insensitive goon.

    Human nature makes it tough not to get dragged into that kind of anti-social give and take. Thus I find it easier to just ignore it.

    However, when folks across the political spectrum keep it on a level of basic respect, then yeah, I think that kind of interaction can be productive and actually kind of fun.

    For anyone still around on this thread, I’ll try to see if I have any responses to the other new posts.

    Prpeostericity (31cd02)

  70. I never said Kimberlin has been a pedophile or murdered Julia Scyphers. I only pointed out that these things have been considered as good possibilities well before I even heard of the internet.

    Now I see Hooten is coming up with revisionist history on his post. He has changed saying I committed crimes to that I am a crank.

    Thanks Dustin for looking into my experiences at DU and DKos. It pretty much went down the way you describe it.

    I’m with Patterico. This person should link to my posts which he claims I called Kimberlin a pedophile.

    All I did was the equivalent of saying it looks like OJ Simpson killed his wife and Ron Glodman before the civil case said he did.

    I also don’t see much if any conspiracy theory on this website. Patterico and others can’t be blamed by what some other guests may have posted. These guys are passionate conservatives.

    Hooten shows he does not debate fairly. He sidesteps his claim that I am committing crimes. He provides no links to back up such a defamatory statement. He says Brett Kimberlin committed one crime, paid his debt, and that all the other ones were simply allegations. So what was his one crime, Hooten? Selling pot? He didn’t set those bombs? Why did he set those bombs? It’s not rocket science to arrive at one theory for why he did, to throw the small police department off their game with their investigation into the murder of Julia Scyphers.

    Prepostericity (31cd02)

  71. Chris Hooten, like many leftists, actually belives that saying things that are not approved of by leftists is (or at least should be) a crime. After all their heroes, Lenin, Stalin, Mao (and Hitler) got to kill people for stuff like that.

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  72. Uhm, I’m not saying I respect the dude who shot McKinley. Just that this was an example of a violent act which one could easily pin on one side of the political spectrum.

    Prepostericity (31cd02)

  73. Have Blue, there was a group of German sociologists who fled Germany during the Hitler dictatorship who would be considered true lefties. Some of them included Fromm, Marcuse, Adorno, Benjamin, and Horkheimer. They were not supportive of Lenin, Stalin, and Mao. Some came to America full of hope. Those who did were disappointed with what was termed the culture industry, not to even mention the Military Industrial Complex. I, for one, would give Leon Trotsky a plug, but no way have I ever supported the other three you mention.

    Prepostericity (31cd02)

  74. Yes, they were not Stalinists, but their contempt for bourgeois values put them in the same camp, that’s why the revolutions in 1919, and the attempt in 1933 failed. I am dissapointed in the kulturindustrie as well, mostly because it echoes
    those same premises. Marcuse’s predilictions didn’t stop him from misreading events in Havana and Hanoi, and searching for the ‘authoritarian personality, as his colleague, Altermeyer did from Canada. His successors have the same optics problem with regards to Caracas, Their corrosive skepticism, somehow doesn’t prevent them from seeing any kind of hope, in a mountebank like Obama,

    narciso (bcb6cc)

  75. It was not an oopsie, and by you continuing to refer to it as such suggests we took you the right way the first time around.

    Crissyhooten gets a tingle up his leg by acting the fool in public. He goes on his benders, and then disappears. He does that standard leftist routine of declaring anyone that he disagrees with fringe or nuts or conspiracy theorists. All while defending a drug smuggling domestic terrorist and fraudulent voting integrity aficionado.

    JD (4c5021)

  76. Prepostericity – While I don’t like to assign political labels to the mentally ill, the left usually has no hesitation. Stack and Von Brunn belong to the left, as does the person who tried to assassinate the Governor of Kansas last year and shot the wrong person and the person recently arrested for making a death threat against Governor Walker of Wisconsin. No media coverage of that last one and virtually none of the Kansas situation.

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  77. Chris Hooten now proudly declares he need not provide proof of his defamatory statements against Prepostericity.

    No kidding! That is shocking.

    Hooten, I have no idea what proof you are talking about. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of a single defamatory statement Prepostericity has made, which is why I challenged you to provide one. I know of no crimes he has committed, which is why I challenged you to provide proof of one.

    Prepostericity, I see you recognize that Mr. Hooten’s statements are defamatory. Calling someone a liar or a crank may be standard Internet fare. Falsely accusing someone of having committed crimes without any basis is defamation. Also, recklessly and falsely accusing someone who is now a defendant in a defamation suit (you) of having made defamatory statements is beyond the pale and will complicate your litigation.

    Prepostericity, if you have to get a lawyer anyway, I urge you to seriously consider filing suit against Chris Hooten. People like him enable Kimberlin and think they can get away with any falsehood without consequence. Your name will end up being public and this man has accused you of committing crimes even as he minimizes Kimberlin’s crimes by calling them “alleged.”

    If you choose to promote responsibility in discourse by suing Chris Hooten, I will pay your filing fee. I will take up a collection here and it will probably take two hours to raise the funds.

    Give it some serious thought.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  78. daleyrocks at 76 – Agree with everything in your comment except that the nutball leftist who tried to kill the Governor of Kansas used a knife and slashed the throat of a dean of the college he was appearing at. (The media has ignored the story so completely I am not even aware of his current condition.)

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  79. “Agree with everything in your comment except that the nutball leftist who tried to kill the Governor of Kansas used a knife…”

    I think that might have been the governor of Missouri, actually.

    Dave Surls (90be31)

  80. I’m going to bow out of the tangential side debate. I think we should focus on our common interest in the primary story. Hopefully this won’t sound like I’m trying to get the last word in on that, but here goes. No way whatsoever can Von Brunn be considered a lefty. He was tied in with white supremacist ideology. I’m not saying he is tied in with your side either. It seems pointless to play some kind of game of gotcha whenever any type of psychotic goes postal. And apologies to mailmen too for my last comment.

    Patterico, I’m grateful for the offer to cover filing charges against Hooten. However, my life right now is complicated enough. I’m satisfied that his inability to provide proof I called Kimberlin a pedophile and murderer means he has lost and we won. He like Alexandrovna have shown no proof that Kimberlin’s convictions are simply allegations. Maybe that is how it’s seen in the Twilight Zone but not in reality.

    Alexandrovna took it a step further by saying Kimberlin was exonerated for the bombings and won a huge settlement for illegal incarceration. While Kimberlin’s rights may have been violated for being put in isolation during the Presidential election in question, he was never cleared of his felonies. Maybe Alexandrovna should be subpoenaed and asked about these documents she was talking about saying the opposite. It appears she was shown those by Brett.

    I may be closer to having legal representation. If I am going to sue anyone for defamation, I’d like it to be Brett Kimberlin. What he wrote for the case against me was chock full of lies. But this will be something to discuss with my attorney. At a minimum I believe that Kimberlin should have to pay all legal costs spent in order to defend myself against a frivolous lawsuit.

    Prepostericity (867c62)

  81. Prepostericity – von Brunn published on line rants against President Bush, Fox News, neocons and was a 9/11 Truther. He was a holocaust denier and hated both Christians and Jews. Form your own conclusions.

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  82. Prepostericity – It would be a shame if Kimberlin doesn’t have any evidence for all his allegations about you because all those alleged evil things you said were on threads that were deleted by blogs over which you exercised no control. Heh.

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  83. Still amazed anyone would use “alleged” to describe the crimes Brett absolutely did commit. A man died, Chris Hooten. Your stupid internet squabbling has gone too far.

    Your shilling for a killer and your foul and aggressive slurring of Preposterocity says everything that needs to be known about you. I would cheer to see you face a judge and explain yourself, defender of Brett Kimberlin.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  84. Don’t forget that in addition to his Texas drug conviction, illegal possession of explosives conviction, impersonation of a federal official conviction and bombing conviction, Kimberlin is also a convicted perjurer:

    “Defendant testified. During direct examination he testified that he had been convicted of perjury. Defendant argues that the government improperly inquired on cross-examination concerning the details of the offense. On direct, for the obvious purpose of minimizing the offense, and its impact on the jury, defendant testified he was convicted when he had just turned eighteen, the grand jury was investigating drug abuse at the high school, and no lawyer was with him when questioned before the grand jury. Apparently believing that the door had been opened, the prosecutor inquired whether the perjury consisted of telling the grand jury he had not sold LSD to certain persons when in fact he had done so. The answer was affirmative.”

    Read more:

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  85. Daleyrocks- If I had the time, I’d debate you on what you said about Von Brunn and anything else. You’ve just caught me in a time crunch where I have to figure out the other thing.

    On the deletions aspect, I don’t believe anything should ever be whitewalled unless it is spam or illegal. I was able to save most of what got deleted at DU, but you make a good point. Kimberlin is making accusations against me based on some things that have been erased. Despite our mutual agreement Daily Kos has major flaws, at least they don’t delete the way DU does. I don’t see anywhere in the court filing Kimberlin requesting those entries be deleted.

    This reminds me of the time I posted against such DU censorship at BradBlog. I wrote that it makes it impossible to figure out why someone has been banned. It’s un-American to not be given due process.

    Brad’s response was to write me an email detailing how the election integrity activist in question, Kathy Dopp, was unhinged or something similar. He sent me emails she had written. It’s unlikely people reading here will ever share info with Brad Friedman, but the bottom line is he can’t be trusted. He is not a real journalist and doesn’t realise you don’t out people without their okaying it. You don’t share others’ private emails. Even if it isn’t illegal, it’s immoral.

    Months ago I’d seen that court document you posted. This is rich. A convicted felon is suing me for thinking he’s bad news based on facts.

    This could very well backfire on him. I am no lawyer, but the thought of a countersuit comes to mind. As does the Barbara Streisand Effect, as Patterico pointed out earlier.

    Ex-political prisoner my arse. Here’s hoping Julia Scyphers and Carl Delong are resting in peace, and that their families are over the pain caused by Brett Kimberlin.

    Prepostericity (77327e)

  86. Prepostericity at 80 – You state Von Brunn “can not be considered a lefty” because, “He was tied in with white supremacist ideology.”

    I don’t know about ‘lefty’ but the fact that he was a white supremicist makes it far more likely he is a Democrat, the party of slavery and Jim Crow. Most of the negative statement about Jews I have heard lately come from the left side of the aisle also.

    Have Blue (854a6e)

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