Patterico's Pontifications

2/27/2011

Shame in Wisconsin

Filed under: General — Aaron Worthing @ 4:39 pm

[Guest post by Aaron Worthing; if you have tips, please send them here.]

That’s the link between these two stories.  First, I meant to post this on Friday, but when Wisconsin Assembly passed the bill they have all been arguing about, the reaction was childish.  You can read about the controversy itself, here.

And here is video of the tantrum (thanks to Madawaskan):

And more, via Althouse:

But in my opinion, far more damning is this second issue.  Ann Althouse (and for those of you who have been living under a rock or, ahem, vacationing in Mexico, Ann has been all over this story) visits the protests in the capital building and finds them treating a war memorial with disrespect.  Her and her relatively newlywed husband Meade confront the protesters and really just can’t get over it.  It certainly makes my blood boil:

The worst thing about that video?  That these people showed no interest, no desire to get it right, no urgency.  If I had accidentally done a thing like that, I would have said, “let me go clean that up, first.  Then if you want to talk, we can.”  And then I would have immediately fixed it.  Instead they want to stand around debating about whether they had bad intent.

But it gets even worse.  Althouse and her husband come back the next day…  and its trashed again (they have video at the link, but its not half as interesting).  I mean the whole internet was buzzing about this last night.  Didn’t anyone in their organization decide to make sure this didn’t repeat if only because of the bad publicity?

Another blogger who has done a great job covering the various union-related misbehavior all week is James Taranto.  As he wrote last Tuesday:

It’s quite striking the way almost every lie the left ever told about the Tea Party has turned out to be true of the government unionists in Wisconsin and their supporters:

• Extreme rhetoric. The Wisconsin Republican Party has produced what Mediaite.org calls an “incredibly effective” video juxtaposing liberal complaints about allegedly extremist Tea Party rhetoric with unionist signs likening Gov. Walker to Hitler and other dictators. Left-wing journalists are making similar invidious comparisons: “Workers Toppled a Dictator in Egypt, but Might Be Silenced in Wisconsin” read the headline of a Washington Post column by Harold Meyerson last week. The other day on CNN we saw scenes of a Madison crowd chanting, “Kill the bill”–which was said to be violent and invidious a year ago, when “the bill” was ObamaCare.

• Violence. Blogress Ann Althouse, a state employee based in Madison, posted a video of municipal salt trucks blowing their horns in support of the unionists. A YouTube commenter responded (quoting verbatim), “whoever video taped this has no life and should be shot in the head.” Unlike Frances Fox Piven, Althouse has never advocated violence, but don’t expect the Times to give this the kind of coverage it gave Piven’s claims that she had received threatening emails.

• Partisan AstroTurf. That’s the Beltway term referring to a fake grassroots movement. Politico reported last week that “the Democratic National Committee’s Organizing for America arm–the remnant of the 2008 Obama campaign–is playing an active role in organizing protests.” A blogger at the OFA website, BarackObama.com, writes: “To our allies in the labor movement, to our brothers and sisters in public work, we stand with you, and we stand strong.” We’ve also received emails from MoveOn.org, which says it’s holding a pro-unionist rally outside our officeslater this afternoon. Sorry, MOO, we’re working at home today.

• Refusal to accept election results. Although Republicans have a majority in the Wisconsin Senate, Democrats have fled the state, taking advantage of the body’s rules to deny the majority a quorum. The Indianapolis Star reports that Democrats from the Indiana House are employing the same tactic. Even Barack Obama, when he was an Illinois senator, usually voted “present.”

• Stupidity. Remember “Teabonics,” a photo album of misspelled Tea Party signs? The unionists can’t spell any better–and some of them are teachers! Althouse got one photo of what we think is a woman holding a sign that reads ” ‘Open for business’ = Closed for Negotiatins [sic].” Also, some of the teachers’ tactics–in particular, fraudulently calling in sick and exploiting other people’s children by enlisting them as protesters–seem not only unethical but calculated to repel the public. One blessing of low standards for public school teachers is that it ensures many of them are not bright enough to stage an effective protest.

And of course the violence only got worse as the week went on with one union leader called for people to “get a little bloody.”

At some point you start to realize that this kind of behavior is not an aberration.  It’s who they are.  And that is shameful.

[Posted and authored by Aaron Worthing.]

99 Responses to “Shame in Wisconsin”

  1. Aaron,

    You sure those aren’t escaped jail inmates?

    Azygos (0db0e0)

  2. Anyone tell them to get the govt out of the Medicare? Anyone bring an AR-15?

    Congratulations to Ann, without resentment and anger you guys wouldn’t know you’re alive

    timb (8f04c0)

  3. timb

    go to the blaze. there is union-based violence all over the site.

    Aaron Worthing (73a7ea)

  4. Timb, having no way to defend the disgraceful behavior of his fellow-travelers in Wisconsin, embarks upon a lame attempt to deflect.

    Congratulations to timb, without argument fallacies, he wouldn’t be able to express himself at all.

    Some Chump (faf22c)

  5. The Dem representatives all wearing their matching orange T shirts just really ticks me off. Seems like they might have at least tried to give the impression to voters that they are responsible legislators making independent decisions for their individual districts’ needs, rather than being fielded as a sponsored little league team.

    elissa (320342)

  6. http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116824378.html
    “Just after 1 a.m., Republicans cut off debate on Gov. Scott Walker’s bill and in pell-mell fashion the body voted 51-17 to pass it. In the confusion, nearly one-third of the body – 28 lawmakers including 25 Democrats, two Republicans and the body’s lone independent – did not vote on the bill at all.”

    “Then Kramer called the vote. Within seconds, the digital vote system on the wall announced 51 ayes and 17 nays, and voting was suddenly closed. With a total of 96 members, that got to a majority for the bill but left 28 members who hadn’t had a chance yet to vote.”
    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/wi-assembly-gop-passes-walker-budget-in-surprise-vote—-dems-chant-shame.php?ref=fpblg

    Bernard F. (d80b5a)

  7. Shame is when you don’t bother to show up to vote, on this issue, then you make up a supposed shunning
    of a government official

    narciso (bf58f6)

  8. So Bernard, you’re thinking that if they had kept on discussing in the chamber for hours and hours or perhaps days more, minds would have miraculously been changed? Or, that the 28 votes that did not get on the board because the reps were sleeping or were out for coffee would have morphed like the biblical loaves and fishes to overcome the 51 already cast?
    What is your point?

    elissa (320342)

  9. timb and Bernard swing by the site, evacuate their rhetorical bowels, then slink off into the night.

    JVW (1a2602)

  10. Apparently the plan was to start clearing the Capitol building at 4 pm today, the protestors were not interested in leaving.

    Reports at Althouse say the Madison city police refused to assist the Capitol police in arresting protestors and taking them to jail.

    Word released by Capitol police at 7 PM that people would not be forcibly removed, but they would (“try”?) to be limited to first floor so cleaning could get underway to ready the building for the am.
    http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_f1def2c4-42bc-11e0-b8d7-001cc4c002e0.html

    There have been rumors that they locked the doors to the bathrooms.

    If all of the above is true, I wonder what Walker can do in regards to getting a court order to tell the City police to do their job, call in the state patrol (to arrest protestors or arrest city police??) or the national guard.

    All the union folk think they are taking a brave stand for something good, which I guess they are if you think government by union intimidation is a good thing.

    Otherwise it looks like the question is will the governor lose control of the state capitol?

    Stupid. If people would use their brains and put this much effort in things good for the state than themselves how wonderful it will be. I’m ready to drive to Madison and volunteer for one of those newly opened jobs as a teacher, trash collector, policeman…

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  11. Well, at least the Dem assembly members staeyed in the state.
    And
    The Repubs gave 60 hours of debate.

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  12. “Just after 1 a.m., Republicans cut off debate on Gov. Scott Walker’s bill and in pell-mell fashion the body voted 51-17 to pass it. In the confusion, nearly one-third of the body – 28 lawmakers including 25 Democrats, two Republicans and the body’s lone independent – did not vote on the bill at all.”

    How dare they cut of debate after 60 hours! Those bastards

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  13. And of course there is no “crisis”
    http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/editorial/article_61064e9a-27b0-5f28-b6d1-a57c8b2aaaf6.html

    “The Fiscal Bureau memo — which readers can access at http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf — makes it clear that Walker did not inherit a budget that required a repair bill.
    The facts are not debatable.
    Because of the painful choices made by the previous Legislature, Wisconsin is in better shape fiscally than most states.
    Wisconsin has lower unemployment than most states.
    Wisconsin has better prospects for maintaining great schools, great public services and a great quality of life than most states, even in turbulent economic times.
    Unfortunately, Walker has a political agenda that relies on the fantasy that Wisconsin is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.
    Walker is not interested in balanced budgets, efficient government or meaningful job creation.
    Walker is interested in gaming the system to benefit his political allies and campaign contributors.”

    …“Since his inauguration in early January, Walker has approved $140 million in new special-interest spending that includes:
    “• $25 million for an economic development fund for job creation that still has $73 million due to a lack of job creation. Walker is creating a $25 million hole which will not create or retain jobs.
    “• $48 million for private health savings accounts, which primarily benefit the wealthy. A study from the federal Governmental Accountability Office showed the average adjusted gross income of HSA participants was $139,000 and nearly half of HSA participants reported withdrawing nothing from their HSA, evidence that it is serving as a tax shelter for wealthy participants.
    “• $67 million for a tax shift plan, so ill-conceived that at best the benefit provided to ‘job creators’ would be less than a dollar a day per new job, and may be as little as 30 cents a day.”
    State Rep. Mark Pocan, D-Madison, sums up this scheming accurately when he says: “In one fell swoop, Gov. Walker is trying to institute a sweeping radical and dangerous notion that will return Wisconsin to the days when land barons and railroad tycoons controlled the political elites in Madison.”
    The bottom line is evident to anyone who cares to pay attention not to the spin but to the budget figures: Walker is manufacturing a fiscal “crisis” in order to achieve political goals.
    Walker is not addressing a fiscal crisis.
    He is not serving Wisconsin.

    And of course the unions have agreed to all the give backs. They have refused to give up their right to collective bargaining.

    Bernard F. (d80b5a)

  14. Bernard-

    It looks like unions, including the City of Madison Police, are stating they will not abide by the laws of the state of Wisconsin under the direction of the governor. No matter how many grievances the unions may have, when the teachers refuse to teach and the police refuse to enforce the law, it is time for them all to be fired.

    “Land Barons” and “Railroad Tycoons”? Not hardly. even FDR did not think public service unions were necessary or a good idea.

    The bottom line is the Dems and Unions want their ability to feed from each others trough to continue, Walker and the majority of voters in the state want them to stop.

    I can teach high school biology, chemistry and math, where’s my classroom?

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  15. “Bernard” is Yelverton, people. And it seems to be joined by its master of projection, anger and hate filled stalkerish thingie tonight. Wonderful.

    JD (0d2ffc)

  16. And of course the unions have agreed to all the give backs

    Of course they have, because they know that if the system isn’t fixed, the can demand what they want next time around again.

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  17. Looks like the old rule of law may be on its last legs. Tragic. The following article I saw earlier today is excellent. It deals with the idea that if we as a nation do not abide by our laws, and do not respect the ballot box for orderly transition as we have for over two hundred years, then we pretty much have nada.

    http://www.detnews.com/article/20110227/OPINION03/102270310/1008/AWOL-Dems-defy-ballot-box

    elissa (320342)

  18. Comment by Bernard F. — 2/27/2011 @ 5:40 pm

    You remain f**king reta**ed.

    That talking point has been debunked soundly, and yet you still cling to it.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  19. Only in leftist math can $140,000,000 in tax breaks cause a $3 billion+ deficit. I see Yelverton is out spamming other people’s text again. Such a good little foot soldier.

    JD (d4bbf1)

  20. They have refused to give up their right to collective bargaining.

    No, mainly what they have refused is the requirement to re-certify the union every year through secret ballot, the requirement that they collect their own dues (instead of the state doing it for them out of pay checks), and the removal of the requirement that someone must join the union to work as a teacher.

    The collective-bargaining is just a bonus.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  21. You know if they just ran editorials from Granma, the Cuban state paper, they’d be more honest.

    narciso (bf58f6)

  22. And the right to dictate what health insurance carrier a district can use. Amazingly, the health insurance plan owned by the WEA plays a prominent role in this.

    JD (d4bbf1)

  23. Remember, Fidel has a key to the city. Perhaps he’ll come for a visit and bring some reporters with him.

    At least they will probably get into the building with their press credentials:
    http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/02/meade-is-new-media.html

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  24. “Just after 1 a.m., Republicans cut off debate on Gov. Scott Walker’s bill and in pell-mell fashion the body voted 51-17 to pass it. In the confusion, nearly one-third of the body – 28 lawmakers including 25 Democrats, two Republicans and the body’s lone independent – did not vote on the bill at all.”

    So you mean that if they’d been given time to all vote, the result would have been 53-43 or 54-42?

    THE SHAME. Not giving them a chance to cry some more for the cameras when the outcome was already known. What a manufactured controversy.

    deepelemblues (a78b16)

  25. I forgot about that, Madison seems to be kind of place that Rush suggested we preserve in the future,
    so everyone knows what a lefty is like.

    narciso (bf58f6)

  26. Quote below is from MSNBC website story on emptying the capitol in Madison. When you say your bedtime prayers give an extra thanks that you are not a fruit of Ms. Knetsch’s womb.

    Sue Knetsch, 53, of Waupaca, said she stayed away from the Capitol throughout the nearly two weeks of protests, but that she brought her 21-year-old son, Taylor, to the Capitol on Sunday as a lesson in democracy. She said they expected to get arrested together.

    “I just want him to know you can do something — his generation is walking around passively saying, ‘It doesn’t matter,'” said Knetsch, who said she had been arrested at age 17 while protesting the Vietnam War. “This is awesome. I’m a little nostalgic.”

    elissa (320342)

  27. Dems are persistent.

    This is getting pushed and pushed. Walker can not let disregard for the law to go unnoticed. Do the unions think the majority are going to be won over to their side?

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  28. Otherwise it looks like the question is will the governor lose control of the state capitol?

    It has appeared that way to me for over a week. It seems there was a fear in clearing out the campers earlier, an unsureness about public reaction. Which is ironic because we all know if it were tea partiers camped out in protest, action would have taken place much sooner.

    How will Wisconsin ever be able to say “no” to the next protesting group that wants to camp out in the capitol building? Has an irreversible precedent has been set, or at least one that could be challenged in court if another group were told “no”?

    On a side note, what on earth does timb mean @ #2?

    without resentment and anger you guys wouldn’t know you’re alive

    Dana (9f3823)

  29. What does timmy ever mean?

    AD-RtR/OS! (7c5a79)

  30. AD, timb’s incoherence was especially high, all the way to “eleven”, on that comment and I’ve no clue what he’s trying to say.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  31. Not only lock the bathrooms, but turn off the heat and open the windows and doors. And bring out the National Guard if necessary to clean up the place. This is getting beyond ridiculous.

    PatAZ (6b2e01)

  32. I thought it reasonable they didn’t make a fuss at first, but in 20/20 hindsight it seems things would have been straight forward to just say at the beginning “the building closes at 6 pm” and usher people out.
    I assume it was thought things would settle down and die out on its own, and when it didn’t, figured that late on a Sunday after the weekend influx was leaving would be a good time to say enough already.
    Every day the Dems/unions have pushed this just makes it look worse for them to step down. Likewise, for it to seem that union intimidation was able to void the working of government seems untenable. It appears Walker is used to having his hands full and while he may be surprised at some of this, was not totally unprepared for it not to go easy.

    I am eager to find out if the Madison Police really did refuse to assist the Capitol Police, and what will be done on a Monday morning when courts are in session and State Police Headquarters is fully staffed.

    And the eventual outcome will still largely depend on PR spin and who is susccessful getting their message out.

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  33. Is it true that leftists are engaged on DDos attacks on the evil Koch Brothers, Americans for Prosperity, and supporters of the Governor?

    JD (d4bbf1)

  34. Mike Tobin of Fox was reporting when some clown blocked the camera. While the camera was block, Tobin told Greg Jarret that he (Tobin) had just been punched twice by some protester. Later, in another report some clown told Tobin he was going to break Tobin’s neck.

    What the hell is wrong with these people in Wisconsin? Now it seems (according to Althouse) that the police are refusing to arrest those who won’t leave the Capitol after they ordered them to leave.

    retire05 (63d9af)

  35. Teabaggers are violent.

    JD (d4bbf1)

  36. JD, that’s the irony in this: If it were tea partiers camped out in protest, they would have been escorted out within 24 hours.

    Dana (9f3823)

  37. Just wondering why the Sgt. At Arms didn’t have them all arrested for being on the floor instead of in the gallery where they belong..

    bizjetmech (022d42)

  38. Oh, no doubt, Dana. I love the Taranto column about how the leftists are doing everything they dishonestly claimed the teabaggers were doing. And, the Koch Brothers.

    JD (d4bbf1)

  39. > And of course the violence only got worse as the week went on with one union leader called for people to “get a little bloody.”

    It’s worse than that. The guy who made that remark was a U.S. Congressman! Michael Capuano (D…surprise!) is the guy’s name and he represents Massachusetts’ 8th Congressional district. He says he regrets it, though.

    Greg (bea885)

  40. 36.Just wondering why the Sgt. At Arms didn’t have them all arrested for being on the floor instead of in the gallery where they belong..
    Comment by bizjetmech

    I’m not sure if I understand your question. Those people in the orange shirts chanting “shame” are the Dem Assemblymen, not spectators.

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  41. Bernard can screech all day long that he doesn’t recognize a budget crisis, but that isn’t the crisis most of us are talking about.

    The crisis is that the legislature was shut down by antidemocratic asses. The police refused to enforce the law against a group they like. Teachers refused to teach. And the rhetoric was disgusting.

    That’s the real crisis. In the deranged reaction to the budget issue, the left created a much more urgent crisis.

    And the budget is a political matter. The people voted to let Republican assemblymen and the governor have power over it. Get over it, Bernard. You kept saying Walker was losing this battle and it looks like you are the loser.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  42. Quote from post 25
    “Sue Knetsch, 53, of Waupaca, said she stayed away from the Capitol throughout the nearly two weeks of protests, but that she brought her 21-year-old son, Taylor, to the Capitol on Sunday as a lesson in democracy. She said they expected to get arrested together.

    “I just want him to know you can do something — his generation is walking around passively saying, ‘It doesn’t matter,’” said Knetsch, who said she had been arrested at age 17 while protesting the Vietnam War. “This is awesome. I’m a little nostalgic.”

    Top be aged 53 would mean she was born in 1957 or 1958. To be arrested at 17 for protesting the Vietnam war would put the year of the arrest, at the earliest, as 1974. The war was over and the troops were out before 1974.

    Either her age is quoted erroneously or she is lying.

    rockdalian (0426e3)

  43. He says he regrets it, though.

    what he regrets is that it was recorded and broadcast…

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  44. Aaron,

    If you would, please address this from a lawyer’s perspective: How will Wisconsin ever be able to say “no” to the next protesting group that wants to camp out in the capitol building? Has an irreversible precedent has been set, or at least one that could be challenged in court if another group were told “no”?

    Dana (9f3823)

  45. Sue Knetsch, 53, of Waupaca, said she stayed away from the Capitol throughout the nearly two weeks of protests, but that she brought her 21-year-old son, Taylor, to the Capitol on Sunday as a lesson in democracy. She said they expected to get arrested together.

    “I just want him to know you can do something — his generation is walking around passively saying, ‘It doesn’t matter,’” said Knetsch, who said she had been arrested at age 17 while protesting the Vietnam War. “This is awesome. I’m a little nostalgic.

    Anyone do a little math on that quote? Knetsch is 53, which means she was born no earlier than 1957. So when she was arrested for protesting the Vietnam War, it was 1974…when the Paris Peace Accords had already been signed.

    Some Chump (faf22c)

  46. @40 and 43–Good catch.

    Here is my take: Women lie about their age. Liberals lie about most everything. Few current “journalists” know any history or have logical brains. That pretty much covers it with respect to the Sue Knetch story on MSNBC. Plus, dragging your kid to a protest in the hopes of getting busted for nostalgia’s sake (or for any reason) is pretty damn poor mothering.

    elissa (320342)

  47. The thing though, is these great, hard-working Americans are no longer working for America. And they have chosen to piss on the few hard-working Americans left paying their salary along with the children working in sweat shops in China so they can spend summers in Florida when they retire.

    I’m sorry, but all the crap from the bankrupt left is nothing more than the rantings of the ignorant trying to co-opt the fools.

    Arguing with, or listening to these idiots is useless.

    Ag80 (efea1d)

  48. Is there going to be a war?

    SeriousLee (d4485e)

  49. why would they care about a united states war memorial, they are a bunch of college communists. the only war memorials they care about are in moscow. and thats not idaho.

    tommy mc donnell (397858)

  50. Ag80:
    Bankrupt left is the word.

    All 7 of my California (S.J. Valley) Democrat family members (including my lefty public school teacher-sister) are aghast at the antics of these played-out union jesters. Toxic outliers, they are.
    They have already lost.

    Andrew (db3f0f)

  51. elissa – I did meet a libtard seasoned citizen when I was visiting an elderly Uncle out of state recently. She lived in Madison during the 1960s. We were sitting at breakfast one day and she came over and introduced herself, perhaps overhearing our conversation about Chicago, and asked if I had heard about the protests in Madison. She said she had been watching them on the Ed Show (DING, DING, DING) and was wistful about the Vietnam War protests.

    Although I had not watched TV in a few days or had access to a computer, I told her I thought the protests were obscene and a perversion of our democratic system. At a time of greater than 9% unemployment and north of 17% effective unemployment, I said I thought the protestors were doing themselves more harm than good and were not likely to generate much sympathy outside their ignorant base.

    Surprised, she huffed off while my Uncle smiled and told me I did the right thing. She reengaged over the course of the following few days with the standard talking points you see here from BernardF and the trolls. No points scored on her part.

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  52. Top be aged 53 would mean she was born in 1957 or 1958. To be arrested at 17 for protesting the Vietnam war would put the year of the arrest, at the earliest, as 1974. The war was over and the troops were out before 1974.

    Either her age is quoted erroneously or she is lying.

    For people like her, the Vietnam War wasn’t over until the South was crushed beneath the Red bootheel.

    deepelemblues (a78b16)

  53. So the evidence of violence is that some salt trucks blew their horns and and a youtube commentater wrote someone should be shot for videoing it!? If this is the worst violence Patterico can find, this is the most nonviolent demonstration in history. Can’t the charges of violence be backed up with any actual, you know, violence? I guess not. But of course the fact there is no violence means little compared to the fact that Patterico and his posters know unions are made of thugs so there must be violence, even if they can’t find any. If he does want to talk about threats, however, he might mention the Indiana deputy attorney general who called for using live amunition on the protesters. But I guess that doesn’t fit his predetermined commentary.

    Also, I am a bit curious about how people can read his attck on the the Democratic lawmakers for not bowing to the wishes of the elected Republican majority so soon after he supported the Republican filibusters against the elected Democratic majority in the Senate without laughing so hard that milk comes out their noses. But I digress.

    Counterfactual (24aa9e)

  54. All 7 of my California (S.J. Valley) Democrat family members (including my lefty public school teacher-sister) are aghast at the antics of these played-out union jesters. Toxic outliers, they are.
    They have already lost.

    Comment by Andrew

    Thank you for that encouraging word. If the Dems in CA are aghast at the antics in Wisc., I guess most people will be. And it also keeps into play whether the Peoples Republic of Berkeley or Madison “wins” out as the farthest left. (Does Castro have a key to Berkeley?)

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  55. Counterfactual apparently did not care to click on any of the links where people were punched, hit with signs, told they would be f@cked in the arse you f@cking f@ggot, etc … To claim that there has been none is either ignorant, dishonest, or both. “counterfactual” approves of Capuano’s call for blood.

    JD (d4bbf1)

  56. These people are completely shameless.

    Here’s the REAL issue: Gov. Walker wants to stop the tax dollars that pay Wisconsin teachers’ salaries from being automatically (and compulsorily) siphoned off as a payroll deduction to fund the public employee union.

    Public employee unions, wherever they can, use those compulsory dues to fund contributions to Democrat candidates and to the Democrat party itself. This helps the party to get more Democrats elected than the public would ordinarily be willing to tolerate.

    That is why the unions have their paid goons out there to protest.

    That also is why failed Dem presidential candidate Howard Dean is running a slush fund to bribe those “fleebaggers” to stay away and not vote. This is bribery, folks, and it’s a FELONY. Both Dean and the fleebaggers belong in prison for this. The sooner they are indicted, the better!

    See:

    http://1389blog.com/2011/02/25/howard-dean-bribes-wisconsin-fleebaggers-to-stay-away-and-not-vote/

    1389AD (b245f1)

  57. Counterfactual

    I believe filibusters are a long-standing parliamentary procedure with established rules, etc.

    Skipping town (or state) has never before been associated with an established Democratic process. Usually it is associated with frauds and hucksters who want to get away before they are found out.

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  58. Also, I am a bit curious about how people can read his attck on the the Democratic lawmakers for not bowing to the wishes of the elected Republican majority so soon after he supported the Republican filibusters against the elected Democratic majority in the Senate without laughing so hard that milk comes out their noses. But I digress.

    You digress badly. There’s a fundamental difference between filibustering, and refusing to enter the chamber so as to prevent a quorum. One is participating in parliamentary democracy, and one is not. Republicans didn’t run away; they stood and voted and lost, in case you forgot.

    The rest of your post is just as inept. Most of these people protesting are ill-mannered and extremely hostile in their comments. It may be somewhat understandable in light of the threat to their interests, but that doesn’t make it right. And there has been far more actual political violence, real violence, committed by union members nationwide. That much is undeniable.

    deepelemblues (a78b16)

  59. “I am a bit curious about how people can read his attck on the the Democratic lawmakers for not bowing to the wishes of the elected Republican majority so soon after he supported the Republican filibusters”

    Counterfactual – Don’t you have to actually show up and follow rules to filibuster? D’oh!

    With respect to violence, seems like to don’t read much on the right. Plenty of documentation available and links to it in other comment threads on this blog. Does the wheel have to get reinvented because you decided to show up? I think not.

    The Indiana dude resigned after his intemperate remarks. How many union members have resigned their union positions or jobs after their actions?

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  60. Counterfactual:

    People voted for your heroes. They deserve the voice of their votes. Sometimes things go against what you wish. Sometimes you have to stand up and say I disagree, but I accept the current will.

    And, sometimes, that pays off. Running away is for losers. Standing up for your beliefs may not always win, but, by God, at least you stand.

    Ag80 (efea1d)

  61. Not so fast MD, as my kin are mostly Central Valley (San Joaquin) Agri-Dems…a world away from what we see among our beautiful state’s leaders in Frisco and D.C.

    Berkeley…? Not even in our universe.

    It is a start, though…

    More residents in Cali are starting to see what’s up and are now paying atention, and that can be nothing but good for 2012.

    Andrew (db3f0f)

  62. Comment by 1389AD —

    If that indeed is true, I think it would violate Wis election law (discussed previously at Althouse) and it would be at least twice as much (already) as the (gasp) Koch brothers gave to Walker’s effort.

    Moynihan and Scoop Jackson would be very sad to see what has become of the Democratic Party.

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  63. noted, Andrew

    I imagine if they are agri-dems they’ve about had enough, even if they haven’t been directly affected by water use situation. But yes, we’ll take it as a start.

    Good night…

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  64. So, counterfactual, were you displaying your ignorance, or your dishonesty? Or do you want us to show leftists comparing people to Hitler, Mubarak, tyrants, etc …?

    JD (d4bbf1)

  65. JD Counterfocktual is a brainless marxist sychopant.

    DohBiden (984d23)

  66. One of the current breathless lefty talking points is that Abraham Lincoln once jumped out of a second story statehouse window in Springfield to avoid a quorum call. I have not personally researched it, although I think it is true.

    The big difference, though, as I point out to people, is that the ground outside the window was still undeniably within the state of Illinois, and his absence was only temporary while another missing legislator could be located elsewhere in town and brought to the chamber for a vote. But other than that it was exactly the same as the Wisconsin Fleebaggers.

    elissa (320342)

  67. Not just Wisconsin, Elissa. The IN Dems are still hiding like sniveling little cowards in Illinois.

    Maybe “counterfactual” should google Mike Tobin. Or the DDos attacks. Or the astroturfing.

    JD (d4bbf1)

  68. Every school corporation in the country must be thinking about how they can unload their UW grads. Could you imagine what being from Wisconsin must be doing to college seniors looking for jobs? It might not be fair, but its true. Why would an employer take a chance that their new hire is going to become a giant pain in the ass? These union people are really hurting their state. Same goes with the unions in the other great lakes states.

    BADgers (d4485e)

  69. elissa, note that Lincoln was returned to the chambers for the vote…

    On December 5, 1840, Democrats “proposed an early adjournment, knowing this would bring a speedy end to the State Bank. The Whigs tried to counter by leaving the capitol building before the vote, but the doors were locked. That’s when Lincoln made his move. He headed for the second story, opened a window and jumped to the ground!”

    “For a while Lincoln’s escape denied the House its quorum, but it didn’t last long. He was returned to the chambers and the House voted to adjourn.”

    Dana (9f3823)

  70. Lincoln should have known better than to act like a jackass. I’m glad he was forced to come back. He should have spent a weekend in jail over it too. Lincoln was a great man, but that was wrong.

    BADgers (d4485e)

  71. Ludicrous, Lincoln who very pointedly criticized the Mexican War, would never do such a thing.

    narciso (bf58f6)

  72. Even Lincoln made mistakes.

    BADgers (d4485e)

  73. States need to criminalize “run and hide” tactics. I hope to see bills in this regard presented soon.

    BADgers (d4485e)

  74. BADgers–you made me laugh! Just last week an earnest and clean cut young man knocked on the door to introduce himself as the “marketing manager” for a crew of college guys who would be working in the area this summer for COLLEGE PRO PAINTERS. He claimed to be a local kid who is a senior at UW Madison. Because I was on the phone I did not have time to engage him properly and merely told him we were not in need of his services. But as he walked back down the driveway I thought to myself “Oh, honey, with that pedigree you are the last person I’d be hiring. And you are SO very lucky I was on the phone so we did not discuss current events in Madison.”

    elissa (320342)

  75. Wall St. Journal has an interesting overview of the history of politicians attempting to prevent a quorum.

    The tactic of quorum avoidance by simply leaving dates back at least to the days when the U.S. Constitution was being debated, and needed to be approved, by state legislatures. Legislators tried to stymie passage in Pennsylvania and Massachusetts that way, and some in Pennsylvania had to be dragged out of a tavern to vote. The Constitution passed.

    Steve Bickerstaff, a University of Texas adjunct law professor and author of “Lines in the Sand,” discusses an incident in which more than 50 Texas Democratic legislators fled temporarily to Oklahoma, New Mexico and even Mexico in 2003 as well as the Lincoln incident,

    [I]n 1840, as a member of the Illinois legislature, Mr. Lincoln and Whig colleagues fled to avoid one vote, and legend has it Mr. Lincoln climbed out a window to do so.

    Dana (9f3823)

  76. Shame in wisconsin

    Mehehehehehehe oh my god that is funny………..Oh wait you meant it?

    The unions will never feel shame ever.

    DohBiden (984d23)

  77. Where are you getting this,

    The $50,000 was payable in three installments, and the third one fell due after the Panic of 1837 had initiated a prolonged economic downturn. Stephen Douglas, the newly elected Register of the Land Office, had recently moved to Springfield, and proposed that Springfield find a way to repudiate its obligation and let the state shoulder more of the cost of the buildings. Lincoln objected: “We have the benefit,” he is quoted as saying. “Let us stand to our obligation as men.” Money to pay the third installment was borrowed from the State Bank of Illinois and paid off over an eight-year period by leading citizens of Springfield, including Lincoln himself. The liquidated promissory note for $16,666.67 remained on display in a Springfield bank for many years.[10]

    narciso (bf58f6)

  78. The same place BADgers gets hemorrhoids………….from his ass.

    DohBiden (984d23)

  79. And of course the violence only got worse as the week went on with one union leader called for people to “get a little bloody.”

    Aaron – Don’t know if anyone else has pointed this out yet (just got home form work and have not read all the comments), but the line you quoted was not spoken by a labor representitve; it was spoken by a member of the US House of Representitives from Massachusetts. I believe his name is Capuana(sp?) and he is widely expected to run against Scott Brown for Senator.

    To make it worse (and you can’t see this from the videos) some of those who were there stated that when he said “you have to get a little bloody” he gestured to where the Tea Party audience members were standing with pro-Walker signs.

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  80. More non-violence from “counterfactuals” fellow travelers.

    JD (d4bbf1)

  81. PatAZ at 30 – I’m going to assume you’re from Arizona given your monicker, but the last thing you want to do in a public building with sprinkler system, in the middle of a Wisconsin winter, is turn off the heat and open the windows. When those pipes freeze and burst the mess would be epic. (And these union sh*t stains wouldn’t be the ones responsible to pay for the cleanup.)

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  82. Historical note about quoroms. (And I am doing this from memory so may not have all the facts lined up neatly.) The US House had at one time a legislative veto in that Representitives who did not acknowledge a quorom call while on the floor of the House were not counted for the quorom. Just before the Civil War when a quorom call failed the Speaker had the Sgt-at-Arms seal the chamber, then he took the dias and said basically, “I see the gentleman from South Carolina is present. Let the record show he is present for the quorom.” He went down through all of the members physically present and the quorom was found. The vote passed and the fight over the change in House practices took (IIRC) three days to settle, but that was the end of the House filibuster.

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  83. It’s like watching a bunch of prostitutes yelling shame at people for refusing their services.

    Patricia (3aa1fd)

  84. It’s for the children.

    Some expensive teacher/union funny business on the taxpayers’ dime in New York. Sweeeet. 1500 teachers paid full salary while taking lotsa time off to do union business and missing class. Then replacement teachers have to be paid to fill the vacant classrooms. To he tune of an extra 9 million dollars a year.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/union_classic_le_en_jrQKCmKdjWQbMAtzqHASxI

    elissa (320342)

  85. It’s all about the fierce urgency of WTF.

    Anyone for high speed rail, another socialist boondoggle? All aboard!

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  86. The Public Employee Unions are the last bastion of Communism since its heyday in the 1920s and 1930s.

    It is telling that they treat the will of the people, as expressed by an election, as the moral equivalent of a rapacious private employer keeping the working man down.

    It is even more telling that in all the interviews and signs of the pro-union crowd say the same things commies have been saying since Marx about “workers” when it is workers that pay their freight to begin with.

    These pro-Union tools are nothing more than credentialed useful idiots parroting the class warfare propaganda of failed and collapsed Communist totalitarian states. Their temper tantrums reveal a very real contempt for the Democratic process and the will of the people when it goes against them.

    Let us also remember the fine Union Label UAW workers smoking dope and drinking “40s” like a bunch of frikken hobos during their lunch breaks and then going back to work to build us some cars and trucks.

    AT least the hobos have the good sense to relax and nap after they toke up and get their buzz on.

    I wonder how many non-Union auto techs will get paid 10-12 dollars per hour to fix the screw ups of drunk and stoned $20+ per hour Union car assemblers?

    SGT Ted (5d10ae)

  87. Madison-One component of Governor Walker’s budget repair bill is debt refinancing, which will save taxpayers $165 million in fiscal year 2011. According to the Legislative Fiscal Bureau, if Senate Democrats refuse to return to Wisconsin and cast their votes in the next day the option to refinance a portion of the state’s debt will be off the table.
    Along with this notice Governor Walker’s spokesman, Cullen Werwie, released the following statement:
    Senate Democrats claimed they fled the state to slow down the process so the public had enough time to learn about the budget repair bill. If that was their true intention, they have been successful.
    Now they have one day to return to work before the state loses out on the chance to refinance debt, saving taxpayers $165 million this fiscal year. Failure to return to work and cast their votes will lead to more painful and aggressive spending cuts in the very near future.
    This is the Senate Democrats’ 24 hour notice.

    (Via Powerline)

    It would be nice, if this happens, to add a surchage on income tax on the inhabitants of the districts represented by the hiding Dems. Those taxpayers are responsible for putting the perpetrators into office, they should foot the bill.

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  88. Thanks for the reminder, HaveBlue. I did live in the cold state of NJ once upon a time, but had forgotten about frozen pipes. And I have a feeling if the bathrooms were locks, they would find corners to use/abuse.

    Fire them all, just like Reagan did the Air Traffic Controllers. I knew one when I worked for the Govt that had been fired. He was allowed to come back to work for the Govt after 5 (I think) years, but not as an Air Traffic Controller.

    PatAZ (6b2e01)

  89. Sorry, I can’t see preventing a quorum as being shameful at all. Anything to keep bills from being passed. I would love some sort of incentive system that rewarded non-action from politicians. Maybe subtract part of their salary for each bill voted on or something.

    Soronel Haetir (c12482)

  90. “Sorry, I can’t see preventing a quorum as being shameful at all.”

    That’s shameful.

    daleyrocks (ae76ce)

  91. Apparently the Capital police locked the building this am after many people who had spent the night left with only about 60 still inside, and they were planning on keeping out any (new) protestors until all of the “residentials” had cleared out. Apparently quite a few folk were looking forward to being arrested and having their pictures on front pages, and walkler and co decided to deny them that privilege. (2 posts at http://althouse.blogspot.com/ )
    Also at Big Government/Powerline is some video interviews with some of the communists in the vicinity.

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  92. Counterfactual (most appropriate screen name in history!) wrote:
    53. So the evidence of violence is that some salt trucks blew their horns and and a youtube commentater wrote someone should be shot for videoing it!? If this is the worst violence Patterico can find, this is the most nonviolent demonstration in history.

    — The libby obsession with absolutes (hence their true belief that Utopia is achievable) continues. Methinks this “commentater” (maybe it should be “common tater”) should put down the bong and go back to objectivity class.b

    Icy Texan (80d439)

  93. I think this is an example of very clear headed and straight forward rebuttal from Gov. Walker:

    I’m sure the President knows that most federal employees do not have collective bargaining for wages and benefits while our plan allows it for base pay. And I’m sure the President knows that the average federal worker pays twice as much for health insurance as what we are asking for in Wisconsin. At least I would hope he knows these facts.

    Furthermore, I’m sure the President knows that we have repeatedly praised the more than 300,000 government workers who come to work every day in Wisconsin.

    I’m sure that President Obama simply misunderstands the issues in Wisconsin, and isn’t acting like the union bosses in saying one thing and doing another.

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  94. Irony of Ironies:

    But what the protesters don’t realize is that they actually have a reason to root for the Koch brothers.

    According to the State of Wisconsin Investment Board (SWIB), the Wisconsin Retirement System owns $5.5 million in Georgia Pacific corporate bonds. (Georgia Pacific is owned by Koch Industries.) This is the retirement system in which the overwhelming majority of state and local employees participate. These are the pension benefits that public employees are trying so hard to protect.

    So here’s the challenge: Explain to a Wisconsin state worker that they are the ones helping fund the Koch brothers. Then sit back and watch the fun

    NRO via Lonely conservative via Althouse comment

    MD (from UW-Madison) in Philly (3d3f72)

  95. The Gov sure put our feckless Presidnt in his place. The Rep that was threatened by another Rep did so as well.

    JD (d4bbf1)


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