Patterico's Pontifications

12/15/2010

“God Was Standing in Front of Me”–Real Life Heroism at a Florida School Board Meeting (Update: Ginger Littleton Speaks)

Filed under: General — Aaron Worthing @ 7:42 am



[Guest post by Aaron Worthing; if you have tips, please send them here.]

The video is a stunning, white knuckle real-life hostage drama.  I will try to get the video posted here later, but I suggest you go to The Blaze for now and watch it there.  What you will see is some real life heroism.

First the background:

A disgruntled 56-year-old man took over a Florida Board of Education meeting Tuesday, threatening members with a gun because his wife had recently been fired from the district.

Local station, WMBB News 13 in Panama City caught the entire incident on tape. With cameras rolling, the man, identified as Clay A. Duke, began his rampage by spray-painting a wall with the letter ‘V’ inside a circle, a symbolic reference to the move ‘V for Vendetta.’

Let me break in there.  Rampage isn’t, at least initially, the right word.  It was more like a hostage situation.  I mean look at the video yourself and tell me if you call it a rampage.

Attendees watched in shock as Duke pulled out a gun and ordered everyone except for board members to leave the room.

At one point a woman approached Duke from behind and tried unsuccessfully to disarm him with her purse.

As board members tried to talk him down, Duke ranted, saying “We’re broke” and “I’m going to die,” before opening fire and narrowly missing the district superintendent, Bill Husfelt.

Moments later Duke engaged in a shootout with security guard Mike Jones, and was shot once. Wounded, he turned the gun on himself and took his own life.

The first hero in this is Ginger Littleton, a woman who decided to sneak behind the man and smack him on the head with her purse.  I mean, it was not wise to attack a man with a gun so weakly, but it was certainly brave and more than a little scary to see it go wrong.  And I would be remiss not to point out that if Ginger had been carrying a gun, she might have ended the entire situation right then and there.  That should be remembered when someone screams that this incident justifies gun control.

The second hero, meanwhile, is Superintendent Husfelt.  That isn’t mentioned much in the coverage I have seen so far, but watch the video and just before the shooting starts, he says to the man that since he signed the forms firing his wife, his beef was with him and reasoning that therefore Mr. Duke should let everyone else go and just kill him.  And when Duke starts shooting, he is clearly aiming at Mr. Husfelt.  Indeed, when I first saw the video, I thought he was actually shot when the gunfire started.

And finally the security guard who shot Duke is a hero, too.  From the Blaze article:

In this video, you’ll see Superintendent Bill Husfelt consoling Mike Jones, the safety officer who shot the gunman, now identified as Clay Allen Duke.

Jones was not injured by any gunfire, but was taken to Bay Medical Center with chest pains. He is listed in stable condition.

And if you watch the video they are referring to you will see that Jones is actually pretty upset about the whole thing.  Speedy recovery, sir.

Finally, my instinct is to leave politics out of a thing like this.  But you might remember this the next time the left tries to use the violence occasionally committed on the right against as proof of the illegitimacy of conservative ideas.  Check out his facebook page.  He complains about how the rich screw the poor, has pictures from V For Vendetta and even links to media matters and indymedia.  All of which doesn’t prove anything about the left, except that you can find violent idiots on all points in the political spectrum.

Update: The superintendant thanks God for saving him.  No kidding, dude:

The Bay City Schools superintendent who calmly confronted the gunman who threatened to shoot him during the meeting said God protected him when Clay A. Duke opened fire

“It could have been a monumental tragedy,” Superintendent Bill Husfelt said late Tuesday, wearing a sweat shirt and pajama bottoms, surrounded by his family. With a Christmas tree as backdrop, he said, “God was standing in front of me and I will go to my grave believing that.”

It is probably uniquely meaningful to him now to be celebrating Christmas.

And we hear from Ginger Littleton:

Before he started shooting, member Ginger Littleton, who had left the room as ordered, sneaks up behind Duke as he stands next to the long, beige desk where the board was sitting and whacks him on the arm with her large, brown purse made of an alligator-like material.

“In my mind, that was the last attempt or opportunity to divert him,” she told The Associated Press.

Duke, a large, heavyset man, got angry, turned around, and she fell to the floor and board members pleaded with her to stop. Duke pointed the gun at her head and said, “You stupid b—-” but he didn’t shoot her, she said. She’s not sure why.

“He had every opportunity to take me out,” she said.

You also learn that the hero security guard, Jones, used to be a police officer, but had never shot anyone before.

You can see more of the event in this coverage from Cnn, highlighting when he painted the “V for Vendetta” symbol on the wall, and a better view of Ms. Littleton’s heroism.  And you can see a fuller version of the moment he began shooting to just about the end, here.  Mind you, in case you are worried you are about to see a snuff film, it doesn’t go that far.  What you see is that the man starts shooting all around at the school board, and then is apparently shot, and collapses.  But you do not see him kill himself moments later.  And there is no blood that I saw, even from the gunman’s wounds.  It is not graphic, just scary, especially because it was real.  And I think it is worth watching because when you see it,  it makes the superintendant’s claim of divine intervention really plausible.  It’s not impossible to be that bad a shot, but it is still pretty amazing that out of seven shots, all of them missed.

And please note the updated title.

Update (II): In the comments I was reminded of the heroism displayed at Ft. Hood.  You can read what I wrote about it, here.  The money quote:

From the missed warning signs to this gun-free idiocy, it is clear that our military bureaucracy failed those soldiers in Ft. Hood, not only failing to protect them but positively impairing their ability to protect themselves.  Their heroism is an indictment on that bureaucracy.

It still makes my blood boil to know that those soldiers would have been better able to protect themselves in downtown Ft. Worth, than at Ft. Hood.

Update (III): Ginger Littleton speaks to Fox and Friends in this video.  Its more than a little awkward toward the beginning, but she losens up toward the end.  The money quote?  When discussing when her attempt to stop the gunman failed, and he called her a “stupid bitch” she says:

At that moment, believe it or not, I thought that was probably a pretty accurate accounting of me right this minute. Because I had a plan A, which failed, but I didn’t have a plan B.

And she is a member of the school board, which begs the question of why he spared her but tried to murder everyone else on the board.  When asked why she thinks she was spared, she gives the obvious answer.  Because she is a woman.

[Posted and authored by Aaron Worthing.]

115 Responses to ““God Was Standing in Front of Me”–Real Life Heroism at a Florida School Board Meeting (Update: Ginger Littleton Speaks)”

  1. Ginger is very very America I think

    happyfeet (c0d821)

  2. Mr. Duke wasn’t looking behind him so if Ginger had had a gun, she would have been able to remove the threat then and there. She was very brave,esp since she clearly lacked physical strength.

    Am not happy the attacker died, but better him than anyone else, and delighted that everyone else w/b OK.

    And since everyone will be, feel like taking a meaningless poll: of which current political figure does Ginger remind people on this board, most?
    /potstirrer

    no one you know (325a59)

  3. “And I would be remiss not to point out that if Ginger had been carrying a gun, she might have ended the entire situation right then and there.”

    Yep.

    Jim,MtnViewCA,USA (5c9d97)

  4. NOYK

    I need to update it. its more amazing than you might realize. The guy fired SEVEN SHOTS, hit no one.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  5. The guy fired SEVEN SHOTS, hit no one.

    Comment by Aaron Worthing — 12/15/2010 @ 8:04 am

    Wow.

    no one you know (325a59)

  6. “The guy fired SEVEN SHOTS, hit no one.”

    I’m going to go out on a limb and guess he wasn’t a Marine at any point in his life.

    I wasn’t either, BTW.

    I’m impressed by all three of these people too. The man who was so scared or valued human life so much that his own body can’t handle shooting someone (perhaps he should get a better job?).

    Superintendent is a stud, and Ginger Littleton is crazy, but also can’t blame her one bit. If I thought I was going to be shot, and all I had was a kleenex, I’d still attack with it.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  7. If I thought I was going to be shot, and all I had was a kleenex, I’d still attack with it.

    Comment by Dustin — 12/15/2010 @ 8:15 am

    I read the story a bit quickly but IIUC she was one of the ones ordered out of the room at the start so she was safely out. She came back in, to help the others. Courageous lady.

    no one you know (325a59)

  8. Dustin

    no, it was pretty clear that ginger was home free. which increases both the crazy factor and the bravery involved. she could have just run.

    And honestly, using her fists would have been more successful.

    And watch the video of the entire moment when he opens fire, in the update. it is borderline miraculous no one got hurt.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  9. “She came back in, to help the others. Courageous lady.”

    Now that’s an act of love. And obviously pretty unwise, if she could have found a better weapon like a fire extinguisher. But still an impressive act.

    Reminds me a bit of the futile fighting of the Ft Hood victims. They didn’t see hiding and letting the shooter harm their fellow soldiers as an option, either.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  10. Aaron: Thanks for updating the post. Great addition.

    no one you know (325a59)

  11. That’s a miracle, right there!

    The Emperor (e0e3b2)

  12. LOL at the Stormtrooper link, Aaron.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  13. Notice that when the “school safety officer” first puts his head in the room (off camera toward the back) and just after he says, “ya got a real gun there?” then Duke says, “He probably doesn’t even have a gun.”

    That’s why he figured he could get do this. Simply everyone assumes that people around schools will be unarmed. School guards will be little better than crossing guards.

    I don’t know if the person whose voice we hear as a “school safety officer” is the same guy who shoots him later. But I am very glad that somebody DID have a gun. In many school districts no one would.

    Gesundheit (cfa313)

  14. But I am very glad that somebody DID have a gun. In many school districts no one would.

    That’s an important point.

    If it was well known that there was a gun there, I suspect this tragedy would never have happened at all. Gun-free zones are provocative.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  15. dustin

    > LOL at the Stormtrooper link, Aaron.

    well, its not totally a joke. the serious point they are raising is that people have a hard time killing each other. so maybe this idiot had just enough reluctance in his heart to make him miss. That’s an alternate explanation. I don’t think that was what was happening, but i acknowledge it was possible.

    As for the marine corp reference, i was just watch “Full metal jacket” the other day and you made me think of that scene when the drill sergeant is rattling off the names of oswald and the guy who sniped from the clocktower at U. of Texas, and i think some other famous sniper-murderer. And he asks “what do these men have in common?” and one guy stands up and says, “sir, they were marines, sir.”

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  16. Now I listened to the rest, it sounds like the same voice. He said, “I thought he shot y’all. I was waiting for my backup.”

    Evidently he didn’t want to walk in and have a shoot out with this guy, with all those hostages standing behind him. A very wise choice. But as soon as he heard the shooting he came in ready to do what was necessary.

    What a fine bunch of people. I’ll wager this superintendent’s next campaign will be an interesting one.

    Gesundheit (cfa313)

  17. Ges

    > I’ll wager this superintendent’s next campaign will be an interesting one.

    Have you ever tried to shoot fish in a barrel?

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  18. My father retired as a postal inspector. He came in while I was watching “The Magnificient Seven” and scoffed at one pistol shot. (Those who are fans of the flick will probably know which one.)

    When I questioned him, he related an event at a Post Office. Two inspectors were making the rounds late at night of the local POs, as there had been some break-ins. They saw a light move inside one (from a flashlight) and keyed in through the front door.

    They heard someone run out the back door, so they pursued. The emerged onto the loading dock and saw a man stop, baffled, at the brick wall enclosing the parking area (the gate was locked).

    The man turned and fired 6 shots from no more than 30 feet and possibly just 20. The two inspectors froze in shock, having never been shot at before. The man’s gun then went “click-click” and he threw the pistol at them, like right out of the movies, and tried to scale the brick wall to escape.

    They ducked then, unfrozen, they did not do the obvious thing of going and tackling him. Instead, they got used their pistols to fire 12 shots at him as he scrabbled over the wall and escaped – – all misses.

    Maybe 25 feet and 18 out of 18 misses.

    jim2 (6482d8)

  19. Several points:
    FL is a “shall issue” state, so I would assume that many of the audience have CCW’s, but didn’t bring their weapons with them since they were in a school facility where carrying would be banned (I would like an update from anyone in FL on the applicability of their CCW laws to Gun-Free School Zones if this is inaccurate – GFSZ is code for “Free Fire Zones” in the minds of those intending to do harm IMO);

    Duke was most likely suffering from a case of Raging Adrenaline which would affect his accuracy unless he was a trained marksman, and even then…;

    A lot of people will enjoy the Holidays with their families through the Grace of God!

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  20. One other point…

    I blame the Producers of “V for Vendetta!”

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  21. All of which doesn’t prove anything about the left, except that you can find violent idiots on all points in the political spectrum.

    No doubt.

    But I think what many on the left have said is that, for the last 20-30 years, the extreme right in America is more likely to use violence for political ends — from McVeigh to Eric Rudolph to Scott Roeder. I don’t think this guy serves as a counter-example, since is “vendetta” seemed more personal than political.

    but it is still pretty amazing that out of seven shots, all of them missed.

    Not that amazing. His second shot, for example, seemed to go off while the gun was pointed down toward his feet, which indicates to me the guy really hadn’t had much handgun experience and/or he was drunk. And subsequent shots were taken after everyone had ducked and covered, so — yeah, those missed, too.

    Not to talk away anything from anybody in that room. Hitting with a purse, trying to talk him down, etc. — that was pretty ballsy. Kudos to those folks.

    Kman (d30fc3)

  22. Brave, but stupid. Definitely not a hero, but rather very lucky she did not get popped.

    Chris (730e8a)

  23. Chris, what makes a person a hero?

    She put the welfare of others above her own. She was safe, but entered harms way in a last ditch attempt to save others.

    You’re right that her plan was terrible, but I don’t think heroism implies effectiveness. Hard to say I’d be much cooler under fire, so maybe I’m just a soft case here, but I think Ginger has an impressive heart.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  24. Also, it’s a little hard to paint this guy has “from the left” when he writes things like:

    Rich Republicans, Rich Democrats… same-same… rich…

    Kman (d30fc3)

  25. Being a hero in many cases is just being in the wrong place at the wrong time and coming out on top, or allowing others to survive.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  26. Also, it’s a little hard to paint this guy has “from the left” when he writes things like:

    Rich Republicans, Rich Democrats… same-same… rich…

    Comment by Kman

    Bullshit.

    Class warfare = leftist. He’s a liberal like the idiot who flew a plane into the IRS building, and it’s hilarious to see leftists pretend he’s not.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  27. This is poli-sci 101.

    Classic liberals (conservatives) want equality before the law, and modern liberals want equality of results, such as wealth distribution, Obama style.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  28. You can tell these hostages were not exactly crisis counselor types. The guy in the red shirt (sweater? jacket?) starts right out pleading for his life – and then talking all about HIMSELF, for pity’s sake! I thought he was so irritating, I wanted to shoot him myself. And then, doesn’t he turn to the superintendent and say something like, “Hey, this is the guy that signed all the stuff.”

    Of course, a counselor would have been asking questions about how the guys feels. Expressing sympathy for how hard that must have been. “You seem to be saying…”

    When somebody does that to me I want to knock their block off. Hmmm… maybe I’ve got some anger issues.

    Oh, and Kman, I do agree with this much. I think the guy was drunk. He didn’t sound rational to me.

    Gesundheit (cfa313)

  29. Mrs Littleton is braver than one thousand duke westerns the Super, another legendary figure

    Gesund

    However making judgements of people under dire threats of death in their last moments – I am expressly disturbed that you would actually kill someone who was begging for their life

    EricPWJohnson (25498d)

  30. I am expressly disturbed that you would actually kill someone who was begging for their life

    I’m pretty sure Gesund was being hyperbolic, and wouldn’t actually kill the jackass he’s complaining about. You’re right that the man was under a threat to his life that exposed this panic, but I find that kind of character defect to be hard to stomach.

    I would say pointing to someone else and making them the target is worthy of disgust.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  31. Oh, get a life.

    I can at least agree with your admission that you are disturbed. You are evidently so narcissistic that you are unable to understand colloquialisms that others find obvious.

    Certainly, nobody can say with certainty how they would react under extreme circumstances which they have never faced. But I would hope that I’d act more like the superintendent – and not like the guy in red… or EricPWJ.

    As to “making judgments”, like other normal people I found these people’s reactions interesting. And precisely for the reason that I find Eric’s opinions so UNinteresting. Unlike Eric, these people were not posturing for anybody. They were stripped down to their natural reactions – their unvarnished selves. I’m still very impressed with them all – even if engaging in the usual post-mortem sort of analysis.

    Hmmm… maybe “post-mortem” was not the best choice of words.

    Gesundheit (cfa313)

  32. Thanks Dustin. Giving the benefit of the doubt seems to be a rare thing on comment boards.

    Another interesting line of thought to pursue might be this: if this were a movie, the dialog would be a lot more profound and moving. But real life is so much more ordinary. The would-be killer is so much more pathetic than movie villains (besides being a poor shot). And the people arguing for their lives don’t have amazing one-liners ready to go.

    Gesundheit (cfa313)

  33. As much as I like a good story, or a good movie, I wish that there were more opportunity to learn about real people facing the challenges of life.

    Remember when Reader’s Digest used to run those “Adventures in Real Life” articles? Maybe they still do – I haven’t read one in years. I think those were popular for the same reason. People didn’t survive things because of ninja skills or huge muscles. It’s the difference in people’s spirits that makes the difference in the long run.

    Gesundheit (cfa313)

  34. Clay Allen Duke

    You gotta look out for three-name guys. They are usually a little bit off in the head.

    carlitos (a3d259)

  35. The red jacketed man was swaying so much, and he was interrupted when he said ‘these other four guys’, thankfully, by the superintendent, who was much more in control.

    I don’t know what that guy was trying to say, and unless I’m missing something I’m not really sure he meant to target the others. I think he may have simply been terrified and incoherent.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  36. Gesund

    I wanted to shoot him myself?

    a benefit of a doubt?

    explain?

    EricPWJohnson (25498d)

  37. carlitos

    face it, if you name your son “John Wayne ______” you are pretty much guaranteeing he will be a criminal of some sort, usually a serial killer.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  38. explain?

    Comment by EricPWJohnson

    You said ‘actually kill’, when he said he felt disgust and an over the top desire that was hyperbole.

    He wasn’t seriously arguing for killing that guy, but rather very frustrated when the guy tried to separate himself as the gunman’s ally.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  39. I also thought Gesund was saying that, in that situation, that behavior actually heated up the confrontation. It increased the chances of a shooting.

    Saying ‘I’ll stand with you, but those four guys’ (it’s actually kinda hard to tell exactly what he was driving at) seemed to reinforce the notion of fighting an injustice.

    That’s why the superintendent cut him off and tried to show respect for life ‘let them go’ ‘I don’t want anyone to get hurt’.

    It’s a basic difference in attitude.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  40. Dustin

    I wanted to shoot him myself?

    EricPWJohnson (25498d)

  41. Dustin

    I wanted to shoot him myself?

    Didnt see anything but the prefunctory – let me judge others in the worst possible situation – make dire threats – i was kidding – post

    EricPWJohnson (25498d)

  42. It’s actually normal to occasionally have violent desires that you do not take as serious future plans.

    I don’t think he was kidding so much as just using hyperbole. Good grief.

    Maybe you should cut people some slack once in a while.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  43. However, Chris seems to be as quick to judge others as well

    EricPWJohnson (25498d)

  44. Dustin

    He typed it, made some insults that people might take I wanted to shoot him myself out of context, made judgements of people staring at a dangerous man with a gun

    oh well – sure lets all cut him some slack I agree

    EricPWJohnson (25498d)

  45. He typed it, made some insults that people might take I wanted to shoot him myself out of context, made judgements of people staring at a dangerous man with a gun

    did you notice that he thanked me for my explanation of his comment? Does that indicate to you that he really wanted to murder someone, or that my interpretation (which I think is obvious) is what he meant?

    At this point, it’s not cutting him slack to use the interpretation he has endorsed, it’s just intellectual honesty.

    I recall you condemned my lack of endorsing Rick Perry by quoting my comment on Bill White and deleting the portion where I endorsed Rick Perry.

    So please understand me: I’m being very generous when I ask you to cut people slack, and probably would be justified to just ask you to let people mean what they really mean.

    Gesundheit’s analysis of the man in red is helpful in contrast to the other people in the situation. I don’t wish the man any harm, but he was freaking out and instead of thinking of others, was clearly terrified for himself and not planning out his comments very well.

    Does that reduce him, or rather elevate the awesome superintendent? I’d say just the latter.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  46. But I bet the other four men in that situation are displeased.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  47. Another idea, that is totally unfair, is that Red Jacket is right next to the man when Ginger struggled with him. It would have been feasible for him to grab the gun, and it was a situation that I think warranted the attempt, since the gunman easily could have killed the heroic woman.

    But I totally understand the he was paralyzed by fear, and is only human. Perhaps it’s the amazing qualities of the others than make Red Jacket’s mere self concern seem inferior.

    Obviously, there is only one man to blame for all of this.

    Bush.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  48. People panic in life-threatening situations, and training, if any, takes over. While the monkey brain is busy ranting, crying, (praying, in my case), whatever, lizard brain goes to work. You can see it here. Red shirt’s monkey is babbling. Superintendent’s been in lots of confrontations and had to calm them down, experience and maybe training. Ms. Littleton, with one plan, looked at her fear and went forward anyway. Hero. Someone get both of them into some good training (both situational and firearms combat) so they can be even more effective the next time life calls upon them. They will be called, and they will stand up, they’re pure sheepdog.

    htom (412a17)

  49. Comment by Gesundheit — 12/15/2010 @ 11:15 am
    “…post-mortum…”
    That’s why they use the term “after action”.

    Comment by carlitos — 12/15/2010 @ 11:23 am
    You mean like “Barack Hussein Obama”?

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  50. “The first hero in this is Ginger Littleton, a woman who decided to sneak behind the man and smack him on the head with her purse.”

    Brave, but a bit on the foolhardy side.

    I would suggest using a crow bar instead of a purse in incidents like this. Crow bars have more stopping power.

    Dave Surls (18e598)

  51. Dustin – you know better.

    JD (da2e2e)

  52. JD, yes, I clearly do.

    Anyhow, I checked Media Matters, and they aren’t covering this. That’s odd. They cover other attacks… why not this one? This guy was clearly a Media Matters supporter.

    :)

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  53. Kmart was quick to try to brand the right, while simultaneously decrying people assigning political motivations to same.

    JD (da2e2e)

  54. Whatever his politics, Husfelt is a stand-up guy.

    Kevin M (298030)

  55. Always have a Plan B.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  56. Update III has a stutter.

    Kevin M (298030)

  57. JD, it’s really weird when the left tried to pretend the majority of terrorists are righties. It’s almost always in the same breath that they prove themselves wrong by attempting to deny a lefty was a lefty.

    All the recent presidential shooting attempts have been of Republicans, aside from JFK who was also killed by someone from the left.

    SEIU beats people down, Tea Partiers get their fingers bitten off, Rand Paul was attacked by that sign waiver whose head wasn’t really stomped.

    There’s a mountain of angry leftists, and each time the left wants to pretend they aren’t what they are. Such as this clear example, including the obvious political sign on the wall and the political ranting on the video, from a Media Matters leftist.

    The point Aaron had was that this has nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of any political ideology, but it’s no secret that the left will continue to ignore the majority of violence while saying they have a great case that what they didn’t ignore proves something about the right.

    It’s like they expect different standards for the right and the left, or even that some of them are sympathetic to leftists who cross the line.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  58. Have you ever had that experience when, under stress, you go into motor-mouth mode? I think that’s probably what red-shirt-guy was experiencing. Unfortunately, his words were not that helpful. I suspect that when Ginger whacked the guy with her purse, and he faced that direction as the shooter turned his back on him to face her, he was probably revving his mental engine – jump him, don’t jump him, jump him, don’t jump him. Everything developed pretty fast, and adrenaline is a crazy drug.

    The guy who did have a least a few seconds to think was the security guard, and he made all the right calls. Not trying to take the guy down at first (in case it could be resolved without bloodshed). Not getting into an argument with the guy. Calling in backup. But remaining ready to do something as soon as it was necessary.

    Gesundheit (cfa313)

  59. jin2:

    Guess: The shot you were watching was James Coburn with his Colt 45 revolver at the bandit fleeing on horseback. “I was aiming at the horse.” Implausible shot at best.

    If you plan to carry a concealed weapon or even keep one at home for self defense, you have a responsibility to learn the basics and practice enough to remain proficient, which Mr Duke clearly was not. As I’ve said before, I shoot at least 100 rounds per week with my .45s and my 9MMs. Training is very important. You don’t want to think, just react.

    One thing that surprised me was why the men remained seated when the lady with the purse hit him Duke. They all should have been all over the guy.

    BTW, we moved to Panama City in 1981. As I recall, the school board and superintendent were not in a school building, but a municipal complex.

    Arch (24f4f2)

  60. Dustin

    well, to be more refined, i think the issue is whether the violence is tied in some way to the idealogy.

    so Martin Luther King attacked the racists for the violence of folks like the KKK. But the racism accepted in this nation did in fact lead directly to KKK-type violence. So i consider that valid.

    But opposition to obamacare? opposition to taxes? no there is no special link between those viewpoints and violence.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  61. One thing that surprised me was why the men remained seated when the lady with the purse hit him Duke. They all should have been all over the guy.

    +1

    That may have been her plan B, but she’s not going to call them out. I think a lot of these situations rely on people being afraid their friends won’t stand with them.

    And you’re right about training. When my wife bought a gun, several people recommended a tiny revolver that was obviously very uncomfortable to fire, but she selected something she could enjoy practicing with. What’s nice is that people who pick up a gun in a rage often aren’t familiar enough to be effective with it.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  62. Good point, Aaron.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  63. Kevin M

    musta hit control v twice and not realized, or something.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  64. “Fired seven shots, hit no one.” This is also how liberals argue.

    Birdbath (8501d4)

  65. Comment by Dustin — 12/15/2010 @ 1:12 pm

    The Left becomes angry due to the fact that their belief system is based on feelings, and when they don’t get their way, they have a temper-tantrum.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  66. Dustin:

    One of the biggest mistakes people make is trying to teach a family member (especially a female) how to shoot a handgun. I have been a hand loader and a big bore shooter since 1962. My wife, a natural marksman whose dad was an army small arms instructor, has the ability to take a weapon, point, shoot and hit the target. Teaching her to fire her grandfather’s WWI .45 sidearm nearly resulted in a divorce or worse.

    If your wife or daughter wants to get started, call your local police and see if you can hire a female officer to take her to the range. Some communities actually have women’s classes. Regardless, electronic noise suppressors and eye protection are essential. If you have a friend who reloads, have him build you some reduced charge rounds to get started. Once intimidated, any shooter has problems with accuracy and will not enjoy shooting.

    Arch (24f4f2)

  67. Back in the day when ROTC was more common, many people learned to shoot at college using ROTC ranges. I expect this kind of anti-social behavior has been thoroughly suppressed by now.

    Kevin M (298030)

  68. Someone mentioned that it made them think of the Ft. Hood shooting. I thought about the Ecole Polytechnique shooting in Montreal, which Mark Steyn has written about before. In that case, the men who were let go, and had a better chance of accomplishing something than did Ginger, never came back. So yeah, I don’t know if I would come back, my best guess is that I probably wouldn’t, so want to be in the camp that says “don’t judge people in this situation”. And yet I think it probably does say something about character, mine included.

    Not My Problem (e5ae6e)

  69. Back in the day when ROTC was more common, many people learned to shoot at college using ROTC ranges. I expect this kind of anti-social behavior has been thoroughly suppressed by now.

    Comment by Kevin M

    The University of Texas had such a ROTC range. Any student could get 50 .22 rounds for free, and try out a semiauto, a revolver, and a bolt action rifle. They gave you a little safety course and let you rip.

    The range was torn down just a few months ago. No replacement planned, as far as I know.

    Arch, nice tips!

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  70. If you are in a life-threatening situation, once you decide on action – go all out.

    Once you decide that you must use violence to counter violence or threat of violence aimed at you, use every tool at your disposal, all of your strength and don’t stop at anything. That is often the difference between success and failure to survive.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  71. In the boxing ring, one observes the Marquis of Queensbury Rules;
    In a street fight, the only rule is to win – and survive.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  72. It rarely works well for male to teach female if they have any relationship other than instructor – student (or for parent – child, either.) Too many assumptions get in the way of both good teaching and good learning.

    The ladies, though, usually learn much faster than the men.

    htom (412a17)

  73. “but it’s no secret that the left will continue to ignore the majority of violence”

    Obviously, since they’re orders of magnitude more violent. And they aren’t too keen on drawing attention to that fact, especially since they like to play their little faux-pacifist games when they aren’t busy dropping atomic bombs on Japanese population centers.

    Republicans don’t get us into world wars…liberal Democrats do, and then they proceed to slaughter millions.

    And, it doesn’t matter if you’re talking about personal violence or govermental violence…almost all of it comes from the Left. Not all of it…but almost all.

    Always has been that way…probably always will be that way.

    Dave Surls (18e598)

  74. What’s truly miraculous is that he completely missed four people at point-blank range, yet ironically was quite successful at killing himself. I guess Comic Book Guy found out it’s a little more difficult to shoot a gun in real life than it is on Call of Duty.

    Another Chris (2e9afa)

  75. Why didn’t the men jump up and help her take him down…..Cowards?

    Mary (ff7c81)

  76. Mary, its easy to say that but it is difficult to really judge people’s reactions to stressful situations – especially ones where they have not been trained. I prefer to think I would behave differently but would not call anyone “coward” too quickly.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  77. I would have taken that guy on in a heartbeat.

    Lord Jim (b03ecb)

  78. “…it’s a little more difficult to shoot a gun in real life than it is on Call of Duty”

    That’s why I like grenades, flamethrowers and airstrikes.

    Dave Surls (18e598)

  79. Well, sure but remember the rule, Dave. After you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  80. I have absolutely no idea how I would react in this situation. I don’t know what I would say or what I would do.

    I also know, being around guns throughout my life, that you never, ever point a gun at another human unless you intend to harm.

    All I do know is that Ginger Littleton is a hero. She was willing to sacrifice her life to save her friends.

    I can only hope that I would react in the same way, but I don’t know if I would.

    Time magazine can anoint whoever they want as the Person of the Year, usually for good reasons.

    However, in a smaller world, who could be better than Ginger Littleton?

    Ag80 (2d08ed)

  81. The shooter was bipartisen. From his facebook page:

    “My testament: Some people (the government sponsored media) will say I was evil, a monster (V) … no … I was just born poor in a country where the Wealthy manipulate, use, abuse, and economically enslave 95 percent of the population. Rich Republicans, Rich Democrats … same-same … rich … they take turns fleecing us … our few dollars … pyramiding the wealth for themselves.”

    William (ba569a)

  82. William, he was a leftist who thinks democrats are too moderate.

    Not that this particularly matters, as far as which political view is better, but it’s tiresome to see another violent leftist called ‘bipartisan’. Conservatives do not have prominent links to far leftist anger sites like Media Matters.

    Hell, the guy is talking about his political views in the video. He was obviously mentally ill and it’s unfair to associate him with the democrat party, and also unfair to say this is a reason to vote for conservatives, but it seems an awful lot of leftists are violent lately, and yet leftist people keep ignoring that while saying ‘look at how violent the Tea Party is!’

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  83. He’s similar to a person complaining about the Republican party while linking Rush Limbaugh or Free Republic. Sure, that person is bipartisan.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  84. The Superintendent could have helped brave Ginger and jumped the gunman when she distracted him. Glad he didn’t shoot her, the Superintendent was cowering in fear at the time.

    BTW… I can see why conservatives really hate Media Matters. It actually makes points by referencing what people actually say on video. Facts are a bitch sometimes for those that deny.

    William (ba569a)

  85. Well, another nickname for Yelverton …

    SPQR (26be8b)

  86. “The shooter was bipartisen.”

    Which was why he linked all those lefty blogs.

    Great detective work Willie.

    daleyrocks (c07dfa)

  87. The lady whacked the idiot in the shoulder with her purse… I got hit with a purse in Jr Hi that had two cokes and God know what else in it that about knocked me out.
    Next time go get a coke out of the machine,, put it in a sock, and go all serena williams on his skull… not his shoulder fer crying out loud

    SteveG (cc5dc9)

  88. What a nasty little man, is Professor Yelverton. Small in all ways, even if he was seven feet tall.

    I thought he was going away. But I guess when you have all those “IPs” you can do that kind of thing.

    Again, think about why he posts here.

    Eric Blair (6037ec)

  89. Hey, SPQR. Want to be that “Mary” is also “pam”?

    Eric Blair (6037ec)

  90. Eric, well there is a good chance that’s Yelverton blogging while cross dressing …

    SPQR (26be8b)

  91. IP’s? Hell, I thought each nickname change heralded the arrival of another of Yelverton’s multiple personalities. I was thinking Sally Field would play him in the movie version.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  92. Professor Yelverton, don’t take my word for it. Several posters here know my PhD is from Stanford.

    Where did you take chemistry, again?

    Really, you are quite an angry and dishonesty person.

    Eric Blair (6037ec)

  93. Bet I called it about Mary, too. Professor Yelverton just cannot help his anger and bile.

    Big fellow, isn’t he?

    Eric Blair (6037ec)

  94. Since we’ve caught Yelverton lying, that’s another hilarious comment.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  95. “I don’t have to lie.”

    Willie – That is correct, yet you choose to do so anyway. About your identity, your supposed “facts” and other matters. That’s just who you are, a dishonest hack.

    daleyrocks (c07dfa)

  96. “I am a real person”

    Really?

    That’s unusual. Most lefty psychos fall somewhere between slime mold and cockroach on the old evolutionary scale.

    Dave Surls (18e598)

  97. Angry little troll. Emphasis on the little. And I am not referring to stature.

    You have playing name games for many months, Professor Yelverton (I think you are also “Mary” as I wrote earlier, so your comments, um, don’t ring true). And bragging about your wonderful life often. People who have genuinely good things in their lives don’t need to brag; they know about those good things, and have nothing to prove.

    You really fool no one. Heck, I don’t think you are fooling yourself. Anyone who tries to call his political opponents “stupid” is probably projecting some internal fears.

    Like your knowledge of chemistry. Evolutionary theory. History. All you are left with is D versus R name calling.

    As I say: sad little troll. Go chop some wood, drive your SUV around, and rail about people who don’t believe in global warming. But then, you have demonstrated you don’t understand even a small bit of the science under discussion. All you have is progressivist hatred.

    And hypocrisy.

    I think you know it, too.

    Isn’t there some other bridge for you to haunt? Oh, that’s right: like the other night, when you urged people to come to your site, and get their “asses kicked.” Quite the macho follow, with how many comments on those blog entries.

    Please.

    Eric Blair (6037ec)

  98. Wait. You are the fellow who cannot define what an isotope is, and you call other people “laughing stocks”? Really?

    Don’t even get me started, “ass kicker.” I personally have demonstrated that you are a windbag of partisan ignorance, repeatedly.

    You are such a sorry little man.

    By the way, I figured out why you post here. Your own very lofty sounding blog (“loose canon” indeed) has how many comments?

    You come here to pick fights, because no one wants to play games with you on your own angry little site.

    Go away, troll.

    Eric Blair (6037ec)

  99. And let me remind you: I proved you know nothing about climate studies. Nothing about evolutionary theory. And by that, I mean at the freshman level of knowledge.

    All you try to do is insult in return. Pretty sad.

    The funniest part about your little games? It’s what, 2 in the morning in your neck of the woods. And despite all of the wonderful stuff in your life, including a woman you say you swoon over, you are posting here? Really?

    Enough said. Do something more constructive with your life.

    Eric Blair (6037ec)

  100. Willie the Wanker shows his literary incontinence once more.

    daleyrocks (c07dfa)

  101. Honestly, Professor Yelverton. Your fly is down, metaphorically speaking. It’s delicious to see you call anyone else “angry.” And I just love reading you claim knowledge about just about anything scientific.

    Just to remind you: you have been shown to be quite uninformed about science. And yet here you are, try to insult people who know more than you do about science. As I say: little man.

    In between your dishonesty, anger, hypocrisy, and childish bragging…well, you are pretty funny. I’m surprised so few people comment on your blog.

    You are a human Weeble.

    Eric Blair (6037ec)

  102. Say, daley, why do you suppose so few people post on Yelverton’s blog? The vast superiority of his political argument?

    It’s really a pretty funny blog. You should check it out.

    True, he posts here more often than he writes his own entries, but he does want to “kick the asses” of people who choose to debate him.

    Kind of like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhRUe-gz690

    Eric Blair (6037ec)

  103. Heh… Hey Eric Blair, that 3% thing he keeps talking about is because 75 (yes 75!!!one!1) climatatologists (that actively publish on ‘climate change’) out of 77 asked believed that man made it worse…

    Obviously it’s settled science when 75!! people say so

    Lord Nazh (0d312a)

  104. Patterico

    Well, I can see that issue, and feel free to tell me to remove that comment, if you feel the danger of misinterpretation is too great.

    But let me say unequivocally to Yelverton. I will never tell your employer about you behaving like a screaming monkey on this or any other site. I am merely pointing out a very real danger you are creating for yourself. There is a danger, but its absolutely not from me.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  105. Aaron and Eric (JD as well)

    Why dont you just refute his arguments?

    Why all the insults? So what if he says things you disagree with

    If they are soo wrong(and I believe that they are)

    then the best name calling are facts that refute

    EricPWJohnson (25498d)

  106. I personally need some real Global warming refudiation because they are brain washing my youngest in academia and personally I’m tired of people with no research credentials telling me and my children what we are supposed to think

    EricPWJohnson (25498d)

  107. William

    Your comments are not deleted. They are put in the penalty box. Patterico can choose to release them when and if he choses. But I will caution you, he is a busy man. It might take a while.

    So your claim that I am “deleting them” to keep Patterico from knowing the truth are illogical on the facts. Surprise, there.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  108. Guys,

    I am asking everyone to ignore yelverton. If he says anything, ignore him. I want this whole thread to simmer down for a while, and for now i am going to take off alot of comments that have been stirring things up. Don’t talk to him, don’t talk about him, just keep off the topic of him completely. And of course the usual rules on personal attacks apply.

    There are more important things in the world than this guy.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  109. I enjoyed this editorial on Ginger.

    It also notes the great point Aaron raised. It’s not easy to shoot someone.

    Also, it has a great quote:

    Winston Churchill famously said, “There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result.”

    That has the ring of truth to it. I am sure everyone of those 5 men are appreciating just about everything they come into contact with today.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  110. Ginger’s purse now has a facebook page.

    LOL. There’s something awesome about our society that we can show appreciation in so many oddball ways. We have a new patron saint of lost causes, it seems.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  111. dustin

    I am just counting down the second until someone makes a dukes of hazzard related joke about the killer. I am thinking that maybe they will use that theme song and mash it up with the video.

    yes, wrong, but i feel its inevitable. and maybe i am a sick bastard, but i might even think its funny.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  112. If you’re a sick bastard, then sick bastards are underrated.

    One of the oddest aspects of Dukes of Hazzard was how the obvious romantic interest was the cousin of the other cousins. Really, really strange. I’m sure it was simply a missed opportunity, or an attempt to have family values, but this quasi-stripper the protagonists are saving was their own blood.

    And that system might just lead to cognitive problems that lead to poor marksmanship. The common expression about bad shots is ‘they couldn’t hit the broad side of barn with a banjo’, but this guy actually seems worse than that.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  113. er… seemed. Past tense, of course, for murder suicide.

    I wonder if he died believing he had killed those innocent people.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  114. dustin

    i will confess i have not watched a full episode of the dukes since they were originally on. you could be right about the subtext, but at that age, i would have missed it.

    i mean it only hit me as an adult, watching empire, when i suddenly thought, “wait, he is kissing his sister… like that?!” i mean holy crap, if you look real close, before they kiss Leia’s got gum in her mouth… and when they are done, Luke’s got it…

    my point being, it might have gone over my head at the time.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  115. ^ L. O. L.

    I may never chew gum again, though.

    Dustin (b54cdc)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.7120 secs.