Patterico's Pontifications

11/8/2010

The Pie Party

Filed under: General — Karl @ 1:25 pm



[Posted by Karl]

No, it’s not some lame, lefty response like the Coffee Party, but it could be the next step for the Tea Party. Allahpundit is busy aggregating the news each day, so he gets to drop gems like this only in passing:

The more I watch tea party honchos rant against government spending and big government, the more frustrated I am that, for all their ardor, only very rarely do they squarely address the problem of entitlements and what aging Baby Boomers will mean for it. Even the tea party’s “Contract from America” doesn’t touch the third rail: It dances around it, demanding a balanced budget and tax reform, calling for a statutory cap on spending, and proposing a task force on fiscal responsibility, but never are any of the old entitlements specifically targeted. (By contrast, the Contract explicitly calls for repealing ObamaCare and rejecting cap-and-trade.) The greatest thing the tea party could do for fiscal responsibility is to simply start talking about this; doing so won’t land entitlement reform on the national agenda immediately, but putting the idea in people’s heads will at least prepare the ground for it. And the ground does need to be prepared, urgently…

In fairness, given how quickly Democrats were moving in the opposite direction, it made complete sense for the Tea Party to focus on applying the brakes with the election of a GOP majority in the House. But as anyone who has studied the Democrats’ infrastructure — i.e., the labor movement — will tell you, it’s not enough to agitate and organize; you also must educate. That project can help keep wind in the sails of those just elected and further broaden the Tea Party’s appeal for 2012.

A good starting point might be to study the case of H. Ross Perot, who managed to put the deficit and debt at the top of the national agenda a generation ago (before revealing himself to be — to put it kindly — a mite eccentric. There’s a lesson there about candidate selection, but I’ll let others hash that one out for now). What Perot had going for him was: (1) good visuals, in the form of simple pie charts and bar graphs, explaining the scope of the problem; (2) the ability to turn a phrase; (3) a national platform (being a favored guest of Tim Russert’s Meet The Press and others); and (4) money to burn.

The Tea Party, unlike Perot’s Reform Party, is the opposite of a top-down organization. However, unlike the America of 1992, the Tea Party has the Internet as a low-cost national media platform, as well as low-cost software for producing potentially compelling content. The same decentralized network that generated ideas and action for organizing can be used to generate that content. I would suggest a video or videos outlining the scope of our public debt problem — larger than all the money in the world — that would be a cross between those Perot-esque pie charts and political campaign ads. Perhaps a group like FreedomWorks could be induced to sponsor something like an X Prize for such a project.

Of course, in the spirit of the Tea Party, I acknowledge that the marketplace of ideas might come up with a better proposal. However, after a wave of Tea, a healthy helping of Pie might be the next best course.

–Karl

143 Responses to “The Pie Party”

  1. “The greatest thing the tea party could do for fiscal responsibility is to simply start talking about this; doing so won’t land entitlement reform on the national agenda immediately, but putting the idea in people’s heads will at least prepare the ground for it”

    Absolutely. They should start making lots of noise about all the cuts they want.

    imdw (7b0243)

  2. I hope that that the republican party have the nerve to take on entitlements, but i am not optimistic.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  3. So would that involve them not complaining about changes that health care reform made to medicare’s finances?

    imdw (7b0243)

  4. Repealing the money-guzzling ObamaCare will be a good first step toward helping Medicare’s finances.

    Mary Nichols (a18ddc)

  5. imadouchebag continues on it’s merry way with the furious construct of strawmen and assumptive statements.

    Dmac (ad2c6a)

  6. “Repealing the money-guzzling ObamaCare will be a good first step toward helping Medicare’s finances.”

    Good luck with your project, Karl!

    imdw (043f60)

  7. …then it will further devolve into blaming the evil jooos for the deficit – just wait a minute, it’ll happen.

    Dmac (ad2c6a)

  8. imdw,

    I know the Left would love to have the GOP start immediately talking cuts, but that’s exactly why the GOP/TP needs to start talking about the scope of the problem first. They don’t need to complain about the changes to Medicare because seniors are already aware of them, hence the 21-pt swing to the GOP in 2010. Seniors do need to be made aware that O-Care’s proposed Medicare cuts would make it far more difficult to deal with Medicare’s finances in the out-years.

    Karl (f07e38)

  9. “Repealing the money-guzzling ObamaCare will be a good first step toward helping Medicare’s finances.”

    Good luck with your decentralized network, Karl!

    imdw (b9167a)

  10. imdw is more desperate than usual.

    I wonder what may have happened over the last week to cause this.

    Eric Cantor for majority leader would really drive him over the edge, IYKWIMAITYD.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  11. “Seniors do need to be made aware that O-Care’s proposed Medicare cuts would make it far more difficult to deal with Medicare’s finances in the out-years.”

    Oh how are you going to make them aware of this?

    imdw (b9167a)

  12. Next step is the Vaseline Party, when they’ll need some to get the big stick pass!

    Triumph (0692b1)

  13. the Tea Party has the Internet as a low-cost national media platform

    Where is this Tea Party internet site and do they allow the “grass roots” to comment?

    madawaskan (fd190b)

  14. madawaskan,

    We can’t say in front of imdw because some of us are Jewish.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  15. “Next step is the Vaseline Party, when they’ll need some to get the big stick pass!”

    Triump – Pelosi may have some left, but she used an awful lot up giving the shaft to her colleagues in the midterms.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  16. “Seniors do need to be made aware that O-Care’s proposed Medicare cuts would make it far more difficult to deal with Medicare’s finances in the out-years.”

    I think they are already aware based on the swing to Team R in the midterms.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  17. Well, now wait a minute. Bush tried to reform social security not so long ago and the American people were not interested. Granted, I think they are more likely to talk about it now than they were in 2005, but I am not sure the Tea Party really is all that interested in taking this on. A lot of those folks just think that if you balance the budget and cut spending in general the money will be there for social security.

    Terrye (d6aeed)

  18. “I think they are already aware based on the swing to Team R in the midterms.”

    I’m curious with whether seniors are concerned with medicare now or in the “out years.”

    imdw (ce700c)

  19. Paul Ryan has addressed this issue. Bush tried to, as Terrye notes.

    It’s perhaps a situation where you try to gain a foothold before you shoot for the moon. The democrats need this talking point that you will die cold and hungry and with no medicine if you elect republicans.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  20. “Well, now wait a minute. Bush tried to reform social security not so long ago and the American people were not interested. Granted, I think they are more likely to talk about it now than they were in 2005, but I am not sure the Tea Party really is all that interested in taking this on. A lot of those folks just think that if you balance the budget and cut spending in general the money will be there for social security.”

    True enough. It’s basic common sense but hey that’s something Tea-Baggers are sorely lacking. Of course you can’t have much common sense without a fully functioning brain.

    Triumph (0692b1)

  21. Go back to constructive mode.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  22. Karl

    You should totally pretend this is a lame lefty response to the tea party, like the coffee party. then you could get tons of free media help. you could be on the cover of the NYT, like that Park chick.

    Think about it.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  23. The Tea-Party is be herre to staying, not matter what that liberral traittors scums may be said! We’ll going to fix the Social Security issus quite completly easy; all that what we have to doing is expel all the darkys and the shikano that who prospere on from our moneys! Then we’ll going to raising retarement ages at 80 except apart of the riches and welthy! Easy I told ya! Drill, Baby, drill!

    The Anonymous Tea-Partier (0692b1)

  24. First person to use the derogatory term teabaggers is a ginormous douche. Must have a problem with teh gays – bad projection right there.

    imdw is more desperate than usual.

    I think it finally figured out that it’s earlier claims about making a 1,000% profit on a car was in reality a fantasy.

    Dmac (ad2c6a)

  25. Did someone let anon out of it’s codein clinic earlier than usual?

    Dmac (ad2c6a)

  26. He should change his handle to Iblis, honestly, who do you think is willing to make these type of reforms, not the ‘clean toga’ boys at the NRSC and the RNC

    justin cord (82637e)

  27. The Tea Party is proof that there is something rotten at the heart of America and that it won’t go – for now. But I hope that we progressives overcome that in the end and build a better world for everyone – teabaggers included.

    In the meantime, I’m sure Nathan Bedford Forrest feels proud. His ideas have finally become mainstream and now have a majority in the Congress.

    Oplontis (0692b1)

  28. I think an interesting aspect of entitlement reform is going to be the racial angle. Medicare and social security especially are basically generational transfers — younger working people transfer to older retirees. The numbers are such that eventually the retirees are going to be quite a bit whiter than the working population that supports them. I wonder if that makes people nervous.

    “I think it finally figured out that it’s earlier claims about making a 1,000% profit on a car was in reality a fantasy.”

    Jeezus christ you people are morons.

    imdw (150cd7)

  29. I think an interesting aspect of entitlement reform is going to be the racial angle. Medicare and social security especially are basically generational transfers — younger working people transfer to older retirees. The numbers are such that eventually the retirees are going to be quite a bit whiter than the working population that supports them. I wonder if that makes people nervous.

    “I think it finally figured out that it’s earlier claims about making a 1,000% profit on a car was in reality a fantasy.”

    Jeezus you people are morons.

    imdw (0275b8)

  30. “It’s basic common sense but hey that’s something Tea-Baggers are sorely lacking.”

    Triumph – Hey, or you could just continue lying to the public the way Democrats do and say social security is still fully funded and there’s no problem. I think the public has stopped believing them.

    How about saying it’s Bush’s fault? Any mileage left on that one?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  31. Oplontis is an example of why we need to reform education in this country.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  32. I think an interesting aspect of entitlement reform is going to be the racial angle. Medicare and social security especially are basically generational transfers — younger working people transfer to older retirees. The numbers are such that eventually the retirees are going to be quite a bit whiter than the working population that supports them. I wonder if that makes people nervous. It may upset some narratives that seek to cast whites as supporters of non-whites though.

    “I think it finally figured out that it’s earlier claims about making a 1,000% profit on a car was in reality a fantasy.”

    Jeezus you people are morons.

    “How about saying it’s Bush’s fault? Any mileage left on that one?”

    Can we still blame carter?

    imdw (ae4d0b)

  33. @Triumph: “It’s basic common sense but hey that’s something Tea-Baggers are sorely lacking.”
    Triumph would explain the term he used for TEA Party Members, but his mouth is full right now.

    kay2the2nd (b62152)

  34. But I hope that we progressives overcome that in the end and build a better world for everyone – teabaggers included.Comment by Oplontis — 11/8/2010

    Typical lib “strategy”: when they have no facts, they call people names. Oplontis = homophobe

    kay2the2nd (b5c096)

  35. Triumph is still trying that asshat Moby thing, dimwit is working itself into a lather, and this new opie one went all original on your arses and called you RACISTS !!! The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    JD (85b089)

  36. Daley —

    The Turner Diaries or The Road to Serfdom were no part of my curriculum, I admit. Now I realize it’s a capital crime over here, but I guess I’ll survive it. Seriously, don’t you appreciate that I revive the long-lost memory of the original Tea Partier? You and your friends should be proud of your heritage and celebrate it. Oh wait, you do.

    Oplontis (0692b1)

  37. Who was the former Klansman who ended up on the Court, Hugo Black, the Klan recruiter, Robert Byrd, the man who put the Confederate flag, back in the statehouse, Ernest Hollings, who ran for President in 1984, the two Klan Senators from Georgia, Walter George, who Kerry pere worked for a time, all Democrats. George Wallace chose to outseg Patterson,
    and that led him on his path to self destruction

    justin cord (82637e)

  38. One of the fundamental problems with President Bush’s proposed reforms was that they would have converted social security, in effect, from a defined-benefit program into a defined-contribution program. This is a feature from the standpoint of the federal government’s balance sheet, but it’s not a feature from the standpoint of the problem social security is trying to solve:

    were social security a defined-contribution program, the stock market collapses of 2001 and 2008-09 would have left unwise seniors unable to feed themselves in retirement.

    are we as a society willing to pay that price? i don’t think we are, for fundamentally the same reasons that we’re not willing to let emergency rooms turn away people who can’t pay.

    which means that converting to a defined-contribution plan isn’t sufficient; we have to have a backup proposal for the people who can’t/won’t manage their contributions well enough.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  39. Why is it that those that scream RACIST the loudest are the most racist? Opie cannot stand the thought of black veterans thnking in any manner beyond what Opie has deemed appropriate. Opie fears some nebulous tea party because GACK they are RaCISTS. Opie is a one trick pony.

    JD (b98cae)

  40. Aphrael, that’s a legit point that left folks like you sounding prescient a couple of years ago.

    But the problem remains, as you know.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  41. Oplontis – Again, you demonstrate your education is lacking. If NBF was born in 1821, how did he participate in the Tea Party of 1773? Please enlighten me.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  42. Oplontis – Please also explain why you are certain HE is part of MY heritage. I need a laugh.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  43. “One of the fundamental problems with President Bush’s proposed reforms was that they would have converted social security, in effect, from a defined-benefit program into a defined-contribution program.”

    aphrael – Many people saw that as a virtue instead of as a problem, myself included. I would rather self-direct my retirement savings than pay fees to others or earn zero returns on them. Also as I recall, Bush’s proposal was not an all or nothing proposal.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  44. “One of the fundamental problems with President Bush’s proposed reforms was that they would have converted social security, in effect, from a defined-benefit program into a defined-contribution program”

    Simply, his idea was to take social security and turn it into something that was not social and not secure.

    imdw (017d51)

  45. Kind of like someone posting under your name, right?

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  46. Opie shows the dearth of ideas on the left these days. The idea the the Dems were ever truly concerned with the evil deficits or fiscal restraint is laughable, and their absolute palpable giddy desire to demagogue any real reform shows how fundamentally unserious they are.

    JD (306f5d)

  47. “Simply, his idea was to take social security and turn it into something that was not social and not secure.”

    Bulldookey. His idea was to allow people to assume a degree of responsibility for their forced retirement savings if they so chose.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  48. Oplontis? Where did you go?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  49. “Bulldookey. His idea was to allow people to assume a degree of responsibility for their forced retirement savings if they so chose.”

    And that is how it would not be social and would not be secure.

    imdw (55b119)

  50. One thing I would do is eleiminate the collect at 62 option on SS-immediately. Something like 50% of people claiming SS go for that option. The talk about raising the retirement age to 67 or 70 of watever is just that unless we address the age 62 option. Make it 65 which would add three years of additional contributions to the fund.

    If you have the assests to retire at 62 or 42 great-just do it on your own dime.

    BT (74cbec)

  51. I notice you haven’t responded on the other thread, imdw. If your hands are clean, why were you moderated?

    As for the other, tell you what: just give me you money and I will handle it for you. After all, I know better how to handle it than you do. What’s the matter, you don’t want to help others? Sure, I am doing things with your money that would get you arrested, but hey, I’m the government.

    I know best.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  52. “And that is how it would not be social and would not be secure.”

    imdw – Explain not social. Do you mean the government could not raid current social security contributions to pay for other government expenditures if people did not leave their money with the government?

    Security is a matter of opinion and risk tolerance.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  53. “Security is a matter of opinion and risk tolerance.”

    Secure like social security is a defined benefit. Social like social security is socially funded — it’s not a private account, but a generational transfer.

    imdw (79bb50)

  54. Nothing secure about the current system.

    I thinks they should take over the 401K’s too.

    JD (b98cae)

  55. Um, smart guy?

    “…it’s not a private account, but a generational transfer…”

    What are the necessary preconditions for this to work? I mean, since you are so smart and everything?

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  56. “What are the necessary preconditions for this to work? I mean, since you are so smart and everything?”

    I’m not sure where you’re going with this.

    imdw (688568)

  57. “Nothing secure about the current system.”

    Just that nobody dares touch the third rail.

    imdw (688568)

  58. Your demagoguery is not something you should be proud of, dimwit.

    JD (85b089)

  59. Only morons think the GOP is going to eliminate social security.

    And plenty of people are catching on quick that the democrats spent all our social security away on ‘stimulus’. When folks realize democrat spending will cancel social security and the GOP’s austerity (that is purely theoretical at this point) would preserve it, the third rail gets plugged back in and the dems will turn crispy.

    Honestly, the only element missing is GOP fiscal sanity. I think it could happen next year. Only time will tell.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  60. Social like social security is socially funded

    Why do we need something socially funded in the first place?

    Gerald A (0843ed)

  61. Gerald – we are toooo stoopid to plan for our own retirement.

    JD (b98cae)

  62. JD,

    Well, not to agree with IMDW but if tea party isnt touching the third rail, then they should very well shut up now, its a shame that Reagan unleashed the endless taxation upon us as is revered as some or even remotely conservative.

    The “Team R” meme drones upon gets tiring especially when Bush is the only president who sincerely tried to end social security

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  63. If Patterico has any doubts about whether this blog makes a difference, the frantic squealing of the dishonest lefties* here should put an end to that.

    *Not to be confused with aphrael and other honest left-leaning commenters, who actually discuss issues and don’t Moby.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (a18ddc)

  64. Team R, are the Grahams, the Voinivichs, the Murkowskis, Castles who were more skittish than scalded kittens, on that we agree with the mad
    pikachu

    justin cord (82637e)

  65. Amen, Brother Bradley. The epwj imdw opie atals of the world are wailing a gnashing teeth and rending garments over real fiscal restraint.

    JD (306f5d)

  66. SS and Medicare are not the budget problems. With the return of the SS funds the democrats have stolen (the IOU’s are there) over the past years both programs would be on solid ground. The real problem is welfare and medicaid which comes streight out of the taxpayers pockets and the people riding the system have never and do not contribute one penny to welfare or medicaid. They only take, never give.

    Scrapiron (4e0dda)

  67. Hate to tell you imdw, but generational transfers don’t work if you raid the piggy bank of the next generation now and refill it with IOUs.

    “Secure” my hind tit.

    If you’re in favor of generational transfers…why not be in favor of removing an estate tax? Oh yes, that’s not *social* (-ist).

    rtrski (c58688)

  68. “Why do we need something socially funded in the first place?”

    Well there you go.

    imdw (14df54)

  69. “Why do we need something socially funded in the first place?”

    Well there you go. Maybe the pie party can stand for free pie!

    imdw (0275b8)

  70. Oh how are you going to make them aware of this?
    Comment by imdw — 11/8/2010 @ 2:09 pm

    Congress has this thing they call “oversight”, and part of that is to hold public hearings where members of the adminstration, and other interested groups, are brought before Congress to answer questions on how the government is implementing the legislation that Congress has previously passed.

    I would have thought that you would have heard of this process, being the keen constitutional scholar that you are.

    AD-RtR/OS! (266a7b)

  71. “I would have thought that you would have heard of this process, being the keen constitutional scholar that you are.”

    As O’Donnell might say, where in the constitution is “oversight.”

    imdw (150cd7)

  72. Comment by aphrael — 11/8/2010 @ 2:55 pm

    The DJIA just regained its level at the time of the Lehman Bros collapse on 9-18-08.
    But, the Bush proposal would not have effected those already collecting SocSec, or scheduled to collect it within the next 10-years AIR; it was targeted towards those who were at least ten-years away from retirement, and there was some talk of making it a matter of choice for a mid-group. There were a lot of proposals on the table, but since there was no serious effort to reform the system, they were never fleshed out.

    AD-RtR/OS! (266a7b)

  73. JD

    I am against any social security or any entitlements of any kind

    As you are very well aware of.

    Have you gone to the FBI yet with your evidence of widespread corruption yet – or was this just another of your total falsehoods and lies?

    When are you going to make your appointment with the Feds ?

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  74. Here we go again.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  75. It seems to me that the only way to deal with “third rail” issues is to declare up front that even though they will have to be dealt with, you have no intention of doing so unless and until you get a clear mandate. When questioned on why you won’t do what you claim to be necessary, explain that it’s like a doctor telling a patient that he absolutely needs surgery — she can explain in detail what’s involved, why it’s necessary, what will happen without it, but until the patient consents it won’t happen; she won’t and can’t strap the patient to the table and operate without his consent. Repeat as often as necessary that “We will not cut your SocSec/Medicare/whatever without your consent, but you need to think about the fact that it needs to be cut”.

    Challenge opponents to explain why they think the system can survive and doesn’t need reform. Challenge them to explain just why young people deserve to be soaked for the benefit of those who have long since got back all they put into the system and more. And keep stressing that no matter how much the system needs drastic reform, you will not do a thing about it until the public agrees.

    When you think you’ve finally convinced enough of the public, then either run a national referendum, or else run an election campaign on this theme and declare that a win will be a mandate for reform.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  76. WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! When in the world did I say I was going to the Feds? WTF are you talking about, or did you go all noncompliant again?

    JD (c8c1d2)

  77. JD

    Have you made an appointment with the FBI based upon your claims of firsthand knowledge of corruption by Senator Murkowski?

    You made the claim – why havent you done the right thing – corruption cannot and shouldnot be condoned or tolerated – please do the right thing and tell them what you stated you knew

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  78. Or were you just totally lying again?

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  79. WTF are you yammering about?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

    JD (c8c1d2)

  80. JD

    You made the claim tha Murkowski was corrupt – which is a crime – I am wondering why you havent gone to the authorities yet

    Its a high civic duty – the highest – and I applaud you for uncovering this evidence and look forward to your retelling this tale to the authorities

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  81. Please show where I claimed first hand knowledge of corruption by MooCowSki. You are a freaking tard of thunder.

    I apologize to everyone that epwj is not well. I will endeavor to ignore his rhetorical diarrhea. At times, I will fail. But, I will endeavor to ignore it.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  82. I meant corruption is a crime, sorry

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  83. https://patterico.com/2010/11/08/the-pie-party/#comment-718468

    You’ve asked this a few times and it’s getting old.

    Link to JD saying he’s going to the FBI.

    IF you think corruption isn’t an issue in our government, you’re out of touch. Demanding someone put up only makes sense if they actually said what you claimed.

    I hate to go back to this, but you quoted me regarding Rick Perry and then insisted I was refusing to say if I supported him… only I said I supported him in the part of the quote you left you.

    Don’t treat JD with bad faith arguments. I think it’s reasonable to request a link to JD saying he had evidence for the feds or request you admit you can’t.

    Of course, I will be studiously ignored on this point. I know how it goes because we’ve been down this road a couple of times.

    I agree with you that we should be opposed to this sort of entitlement. I differ with you that the Tea Party should call for its abolition right now, and not play politics in… politics.

    I think social security cannot be abolished anyway. Hence the search for a solution. We can’t have low enough taxes for a thriving economy and high enough spending for democrats to be happy, so … Paul Ryan’s roadmap.

    Anyway, we pretty much agree on the point that one of the few people who has stuck his neck out on this, W, is also bashed relentlessly by the purists. I don’t want to dogpile on you, even though the way you’re reacting to JD resembles the BS you sent my way.

    I’m not asking you to hug him… just don’t pretend he’s done something he hasn’t.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  84. You made the claim tha Murkowski was corrupt – which is a crime – I am wondering why you havent gone to the authorities yet

    We cross posted.

    So, as I already knew, you’re out of line in your claims. Everyone and their dog knows Murkowski is corrupt. Your defense of Murkowski doesn’t make any sense and implies JD is a kook threatening FBI investigations.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  85. Dustin,

    Then you also need to immediately go to the authorities along with JD and layout the evidence you have – corruption by public officials is an affront to all we have sacrificed for – you need to – I beg you to do the highest form of civic duty and seek the people’s vengence upon these corrupt individuals…

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  86. Dustin – its there something about Murkowski being a corrupt establishment politician that I was defending…

    JD knows he said it

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  87. S you guys need to do the right thing

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  88. Awww here it is

    “58.EPWJ is hitting the sauce again, and shocka, is defending a corrupt establishment not-conservative.

    Comment by JD — 10/30/2010 @ 5:15 pm ”

    https://patterico.com/2010/10/30/murkiness-alaska-radio-host-off-the-air-and-murkowski-plays-the-dyslexic-card/

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  89. Look we’ve seen how prosecutions happen up there, the COB, the group that she referred too, were ‘corrupt’ but they probably were not sufficiently
    guilty, with out a littele tweaking of the evidence.

    The ‘Great Corruptor’ was a fellow named William Allen, think of Plainview from “There will be Blood” and the Departed ‘Frank Costello’ He nearly bought up the state, then turned state’s evidence against the late Senator Stevens, Palin did rise in part because of the flurry of indictment that rained against the establishment, turns out many of the claims in the indictment didn’t hold up to scrutiny, and let us say his
    personal character was not above reproach, He is
    the reason the ethics code, that Palin was wrapped
    up in, was needed.

    justin cord (82637e)

  90. Many people saw that as a virtue instead of as a problem, myself included. I would rather self-direct my retirement savings than pay fees to others or earn zero returns on them.

    One of the problems of this debate is that Social Security is not a (involuntary) retirement savings program. Social Security is an (involuntary) insurance program. No one gets a “return” from it, and no one has a savings account to manage or be managed.

    If you don’t see why, think of how much you or your heirs will collect from Social Security if you and your spouse (if you have or have had one) die at age 60: zero. zilch. nada. enough, with an extra dollar and seventy cents, to buy a plain small coffee at Starbucks. If it were a savings program, you or your heirs would get something back even if you died before retirment. But it’s an insurance program: you pay a premium, pro-rated to your income, which, if you survive long enough, entitles you to collect a monthly benefit for the rest of your life, the amount of which is based on the amount of premiums you paid over the course of your working life. And your spouse can collect that benefit for the rest of her life as well, if you have a spouse or an exspouse who is eligible. But once you die, and your spouse (if there is one) dies, the benefits cease, no matter what age you die.

    It is possible to have that result with a retirement savings plan–my plan at work offers as one payout option monthly benefits for the duration of my retirement, and nothing else paid out once I die. But it also offers other alternatives–a lump sum payment when I retire, or monthly benefits for a certain number of years (ten years, IIRC)–with no benefits paid after that if you live longer than that number of years, and benefits continuing to be paid to one’s spouse or heir for the duration of the period if you die before the end of the benefits. Social Security doesn’t have those options.

    That doesn’t mean Social Security can’t be changed to an (involuntary) savings program, as President Bush proposed. But as of now, it’s not one.

    But, the Bush proposal would not have effected those already collecting SocSec, or scheduled to collect it within the next 10-years AIR; it was targeted towards those who were at least ten-years away from retirement, and there was some talk of making it a matter of choice for a mid-group.

    But the stock market does crash every so often, meaning the problem aphrael pointed to would come into play at some point, even if it would not affect people in my age cohort (I’m fifty one).

    kishnevi (ad9345)

  91. ZOMFG!!!!!!!! I claimed a politician is corrupt. Never did I claim I was going to the FBI or any authority’ nor did I claim any specific knowledge. In the land of the mental midgets, you are the shortest. But, it does not surprise me that you rush to support the establishment choice, just like you did with Scozzafava and the rest. Now, Step away from the Arak, and the hookah, and quit being a nozzle.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  92. JD

    ITs simple – DO… you…. have…. evidence…. that…. she….. is…. corrupt

    Its not hard – yes – or – no

    nozzles make claims that are not true and KNOW they are not true

    So what is it – yes – or – no

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  93. First you denied you said it so what is it

    DO… you…. have…. evidence…. that…. she….. is…. corrupt

    Its not hard – yes – or – no

    And I dont want to KNOW your evidence – but you should/must turn it over immediately to the authorities

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  94. EPWJ, if you don’t understand the phrase “corrupt establishment”, then go take some more ESL classes rather than embarrass yourself yet again on this blog.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  95. It is something to watch, isn’t it,SPQR?

    JD (c8c1d2)

  96. JD, actually given how often I’ve depants EPWJ personally … no. I’ve lost interest.

    Its like all of my earth shaking accomplishments … once I’ve become a world record holder in [Substitute Sport Here] I get bored and retire from competition.

    John MacEnroe was saying that this characteristic of mine ruined tennis for him.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  97. (That was my International Man of Parody impression by the way)

    SPQR (26be8b)

  98. It has issues.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  99. SPQR

    Does JD have evidence that she is corrupt – which is a crime for a public official – its a simple question.

    Is Lisa Murkowski corrupt?

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  100. You know what old people want? They want something that the government can never provide.

    They want care. And I don’t mean Social Security or Medicare.

    Sure, they don’t want to be sick with no way to pay. Sure, they want to live to the end of their lives without worry.

    But, what they really want is that their children and grandchildren to care. They want family.

    We’ve set up a system of government that allows people to renege on their obligations to family.

    The government is a cold and hollow substitute for what they really want.

    Ag80 (743fd1)

  101. I got to go – flying Toner Airways to Washington tommorrow – wish me luck!

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  102. EricPWJohnson, you are misrepresenting what he wrote. Grow up.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  103. SPQR

    You are a public school teacher correct?

    if so enough said…

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  104. EricPWJohnson, I’m the one that already shredded you a score of times.

    Enough said by me. Too much incompetently said by you.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  105. SPQR

    Are you a public school teacher?

    simple – yes or no?

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  106. No,EPWJ, I am not. I’m a practicing attorney who also teaches at a local community college as an adjunct.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  107. Epwj – are you an aggressively ignorant person, dishonest at a base level, or an escaped village idiot? Simple question.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  108. So, you teach at a community college

    is it a Public community college?

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  109. EPWJ, you really do need to repeat that ESL class you failed.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  110. JD

    I’m just askin you to report your evidence of the Senator’s corruption to the FBI, if you have evidence or even a strong opinion they will – I’m sure – listen – they are aggressive in protecting the citizens from corrupt politicians

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  111. SPQR

    So you are a “community” college teacher – not even on faculty – correct?

    Since you opened the floor to my ESL quals – what do you teach at this community college?

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  112. EPWJ, still misrepresenting what JD wrote.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  113. SPQR

    There is no misrepresentation – first he denied he said it – then he said in essense so what

    Now you – as an non-faculty part time instructor at a “community” college have made the claim I am misrepresenting his comments when in Fact – as a “community” college part time non-faculty instructor – you might hve known that indeed I was responding to JD’s deliberate misrepresentation that I am also corrupt because I support Murkowski – which in fact – I do not

    So in your opinion as a adjunct part time non-faculty instructor at a community college – where is the evidence that JD has that Murkowski is corrupt?

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  114. SPQR

    And for the record – I do think it is great that you do teach an help kids with their futures and careers – however when you apply you activites as a professor to evaluating my education on a blog – it becomes altogether a difference issue.

    Teaching at community colleges, public schools in many cases is a thankless task and I do think you are a better man than me for doing it as well

    But as far as the point here this is not germain

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  115. Sorry for typing so fast my ESL class didnt cover – this at all…

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  116. I don’t know if Murkowski is corrupt, but Senatorial appointments by family members can be considered suspect.

    However, she did indeed win popular vote once and may yet do it again.

    What does the qualifications of a poster on a blog have to do with any of this?

    Ag80 (743fd1)

  117. I never denied saying that she was a corrupt establishment politician, the kind that you are generally enamored of. I did deny claiming I was going to the FBI, sincethatit but a figment of your fevered imagination. Your inability to grasp simple Engrish is remarkable.

    I do not think you are corrupt. I think you are dummerer than a sack of Yelvertons, and somehow damaged.

    Your snark at SPQR is uncalled for. You area git.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  118. “Game over, man” I give up, is this what you define
    as pragmatism;http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/128185-sen-elect-kirk-could-give-dems-a-vote-on-disclose-act

    justin cord (82637e)

  119. “One of the problems of this debate is that Social Security is not a (involuntary) retirement savings program. Social Security is an (involuntary) insurance program. No one gets a “return” from it, and no one has a savings account to manage or be managed.”

    Kishnevi – When my contributions are involuntarily subtracted from my paycheck and my employer is involuntarily required to match them, I think of them as forced savings. There are disability and survivor benefit aspects to them as well, but most insurance plans impute returns to invested assets from policy holders, so I fail to understand your comment about “no return.” In effect, I am involuntarily buying an annuity from the government which has various triggers.

    I would much rather invest my employee contributions and my employer contributions, which are both real cash, myself and take my chances on the ultimate outcome when I needed cash. I could purchased a mixed portfolio of term insurance, equities and bonds and in all likelihood beat the assumed payouts assumed in the actuarial tables used by the Social Security Administration.

    These are simple concepts, but not everyone is comfortable with them. I would rather hang on to my money than leave it with the government.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  120. JD

    Have you made an appointment with the authorities yet?

    SPQR as a “Community” college non-faculty instructor opened the floor on my qualifications and as long as he keeps addressing me in this manner I will remind him of where he derives hie academic authority from

    JD – you made the claim – you must HAVE the information – its the highest civic duty to turn in corruption

    Its time for you to do the right thing

    Daley

    Is it even an annuity? I mean do we have a right to the funds we contributed if the program should end? I think its just LEGALLY another tax without any promises or property rights on the monies we contributed – we signed no agreements – its just a flat tax – (signed into law in a greatly enhanced form by “Ronals Reagan BTW)

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  121. Justin cord,

    Not sure what you’re referring to — Kirk’s proposed vote, or a support for Kirk.

    Voting with the Democrats on almost anything is not pragmatism — it’s bad policy.

    Accepting a guy who sometimes votes with Democrats is pragmatism if he is the best we can do.

    Would you prefer we throw back Kirk and ask for Giannoulias?

    Would you prefer we throw back Scott Brown and ask for Coakley?

    This is not difficult.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  122. “Is it even an annuity?”

    EricPw – If you want to make the analogy that it is insurance, that is in a way what it’s most like.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  123. “Would you prefer we throw back Kirk and ask for Giannoulias?”

    Patterico – The shameful part is that Kirk barely won over the mob banker that Obama actively campaigned for.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  124. Daley,

    It would be interesting if an honest unbiased history of this program was undertaken – on the Social Security Website itself it has a greatly detailed description of the evolution of the congressional acts that have derived into what is today – a trillion plus dollars worth of checks being generated annually

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  125. No, I’m sure the dead, illegal, and missing military absentee votes, probably account for that. One had more expectations, that a former naval officer would understand principle, like “Congress
    shall enact no law”

    justin cord (82637e)

  126. Epwj – why do you insist on being such an ass. Repeatedly. You apparently have Engrish reading comprehension issues.

    JD (85b089)

  127. I think we’re about to see some pragmatism when it comes time to raise the debt ceiling.

    imdw (688568)

  128. This debt ceiling thingie is the new leftist meme. This whole BUNNIES thing started election night with Scary Larry’s complete meltdown on this topic.

    JD (0d2ffc)

  129. “very rarely do they squarely address the problem of entitlements and what aging Baby Boomers will mean for it”

    More ‘combine’ inspired distraction. Ryan and the Debt/Deficit Commission have this covered.

    The TEAs are about dismantling Federal bureaucracy and its engines of growth. Take the Department of Education, Federal coercion of the States in turn enforcing transfers to Locals in the name of ‘property tax’ mitigation.

    Allah, useful tool of the status quo.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  130. JD

    Falling back on the Clinton definition is “is”

    So when you mean corrupt – you dont mean corrupt you just mean something else which doesnt mean corrupt it means – as you say – “bunnies”?

    So when you write someone is corrupt you dont mean it?

    Where the comprehension seems to lie is in the lying about a candidate to cover the dissapointment in the performance of the “chosen” candidate who later turned out to be a flake that only about 3 out of 10 Alaskan’s voted for?

    Maybe the “intensionalism” is that gee – I can say anything to mean anything but dont attach anything negative to me while I am in the process of trying to attach negatives things to you since you dare question that what I believe maybe flawed.

    Or you lied, again

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  131. However to clear up your terminology here is the Official FBI stance on corruption and they are waiting for you to bring forward the information on the vast network of corruption of not only Senator Murkowski but the “establishment” that you kep refering to

    However, I think you just forgot a comma myself and were just describing Murkowski

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption

    BTW The FBI says its the number one priority is government (establishment?) corruption

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  132. I’m going back to packing. JD let us know how your interview with them turns out, I am sure that the information on the “corrupt establishment” will be a topic for many months to come

    EricPWJohnson (ed309e)

  133. SPQR – This clown cannot possibly imagine that in the phrase corrupt establishment candidate, corrupt could possibly be referring to establishment. Then again, the same person thought Scozzafava was a Republican.

    I again apologize to everyone for engaging this stupid ignorant obsessive lying dishonest f@cker.

    Just announced, Breitbart to be indicted any time now.

    JD (97a58b)

  134. Amphibians will be marched, JD.

    Eric Blair (ad3ef3)

  135. were social security a defined-contribution program, the stock market collapses of 2001 and 2008-09 would have left unwise seniors unable to feed themselves in retirement.

    This explains why that’s erroneous.

    http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=12514

    Gerald A (138c50)

  136. I’m going back to packing

    I bet you are – now please remember to be polite to the nice men in white coats.

    Dmac (498ece)

  137. EPWJ, I never claimed “academic authority”. If you think that making a reference to a part-time activity of mine is going to be seen as effective ridicule of me, you are only reinforcing your reputation of being a moron.

    Your incompetence is rife through every thread you ever infest.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  138. Why can’t you leave the man alone to pack, SPQR? I mean, he’s got to get ready for his trip to Spain.

    Dmac (498ece)

  139. SPQR

    Are you a public school teacher?

    simple – yes or no?

    Comment by EricPWJohnson

    WTF is wrong with you?

    You constantly demand people answer such irrelevant inquiries. Your whole point is just to call him stupid (and yet you were totally wrong again).

    When do you start apologizing?

    You were wrong about JD. He never insisted he had first hand evidence of corruption. You demanding he show it to you is meaningless.

    With me it was even worse. You demanded I explain who I endorsed for Texas Governor by dowdifying a quote to omit my endorsement and insisting I was a democrat.

    And now you’re attacking SPQR’s profession when you don’t even know what it is.

    You insisted a lot of crap you just don’t know, and when pressed, start asking ridiculous questions that are not relevant. I’ve tried to cut you some slack, but you’re completely unfair, nasty, aggressive, and a lot less impressive than the average school teacher.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  140. You left out incompetent, Dustin.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  141. Dustin – you also forgot to note that it is an heir to the Massengill estate.

    JD (306f5d)

  142. Daley–if you prefer to think of it as an annuity, that’s fine by me. I object to describing as a savings account because there is no guarantee that you will collect any of it. It’s not like a 401k, although the reforms Bush proposed would have turned it in that direction.

    These are simple concepts, but not everyone is comfortable with them. I would rather hang on to my money than leave it with the government.

    Totally with you on that!

    kishnevi (928f91)


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