Patterico's Pontifications

9/19/2010

Is the Case for Christine O’Donnell Better Made on Character or Issues?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 4:06 pm



At Ace of Spades, they’re running a poll on the question of whether they should cover negative news about Christine O’Donnell. I find it disturbing that they’re even asking the question, as if burying our heads in the sand is a viable option. However, the results are encouraging: a solid majority (80%) says yes — although less than half of the “yes” votes say only if that is counterbalanced by negative stories about Coons:

Are 80% of the people at Ace’s RINOs? I’d venture to say they are not. So why do people want to know negative stuff about their candidate? Because it’s news, and because we can’t ignore it.

Me, I don’t decide what to write about based on the answers to polls, and I suspect they wouldn’t actually do that at Ace’s. But it’s good to know that people want to hear the truth.

That brings me to the title of the post. There’s a saying among lawyers: if you have the facts, pound on the facts. If you have the law, pound on the law. If you have neither, pound on the table.

In politics, the corollary might be: if you have character, pound on character. If you have issues, pound on issues. (Never mind the table. We have the issues.)

If my candidate had a picnic on a bloodstained Satanic altar in her youth, it doesn’t bother me. It’s not going to bother Tea Partiers and fiscal conservatives. I think it could make a hell of a campaign commercial for Coons, though, and low-attention voters may be persuaded. Even if you’re determined to defend that, we have deeper problems. If my candidate lies to a radio interviewer about how many counties she won in the last election, that bothers me. It indicates a lack of character.

We have a problem with her character. And we have to discuss the attacks on her character to realize that.

We’ll get bogged down if we make it about character. For example, a commenter pointed out that Ted Kennedy was forgiven his manslaughter. That’s a good point, but it just raises the question: is the standard for our candidates (and our defense of their shortcomings) going to be that, hey, at least they never killed anybody??

I don’t think that’s a winning argument.

So we pound on the issues.

And that is a good argument in this election. To me, this election is about issues, and the only way I would not vote for O’Donnell if I were a Delaware voter is if I thought she was to the left of Coons. I’ll take someone who worships at a Satanic altar five minutes before voting against cap and trade over a guy who prays to Our Lord Jesus five minutes before he votes for it.

And I think a lot of people feel the same way.

I think making this a character battle and talking about bearded Marxists and such is doomed to fail. This has to be about the issues. This is a wave election. What are voters upset about? Things like the stimulus, cap and trade, and ObamaCare.

So I suggest that we not make this a race about character, but rather issues.

So, you want to help? Prove that Chris Coons has the wrong position on those issues. We know he does because he’s a Democrat, but somehow proof is better. And this blog is about truth and evidence. So here you go: Coons’s positions on three key issues that matter to voters.

Coons on the stimulus? He’s for it:

a critical, strategic investment that stopped the rapid slide of our economy into a second great depression

Coons on cap and trade? He’s for it:

Chris is also calling for a nationwide cap and trade program that will help establish a price on carbon and unleash the creativity of American ingenuity to help solve the increasing effects of Greenhouse gases on the environment.

Coons on ObamaCare? He’s for it:

Although he does not believe it is perfect, Chris supports President Obama’s landmark health care legislation and is committed to working across the aisle to make it better.

Some of these links are from Coons’s own web site. He thinks these are winning positions in Delaware. (Although you can sense the weakness on ObamaCare, huh?)

I guess we’ll see. Spread the word.

We can’t bury our heads in the sand. Let’s assess our strengths and weakness honestly and not paper them over with transparently weak arguments. Let’s be clear-eyed about what ground we should fight on.

And then let’s fight on that ground.

UPDATE: Here is O’Donnell’s response regarding the witchcraft. See what you think of it:

Delaware Republican Senate nominee Christine O’Donnell responded to old clips that surfaced over the weekend where she said she had once “dabbled in witchcraft,” clarifying at a GOP picnic in Delaware Sunday, “I was in high school, how many of you didn’t hang out with questionable folks in high school? But no, There’s been no witchcraft since, if there was, Karl Rove would be a supporter.”

H/T to John Hitchcock.

UPDATE: You want to know why else the “bearded Marxist” shtick won’t work? Because it’s mendacious. As it turns out, the reference does not withstand further scrutiny. Don’t take Weigel’s word for it, follow his link to the Politico article, which I refuse to link because of my boycott, and make up your own mind.

It pains me to pass this along, because I have no desire to support the guy, but having made the reference to him as a “bearded Marxist,” I feel I have to pass along the truth. It was a humorous reference to something his friends said. You can pile on all you like. I still refuse to pass along something I know to be deceptive.

His positions are bad enough. I’m sticking with the truth on those.

171 Responses to “Is the Case for Christine O’Donnell Better Made on Character or Issues?”

  1. as long as Karl Rove can beat her bloody on Fox News every half hour I think the question is a lot moot… that’s a much bigger microphone than just about anybody else has

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  2. for me personally there’s simply no question now of voting for another Rove-blessed Team R
    establishment whore in the person of Carly Fiorina… but i was already kind of leaning that way

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  3. happy:

    UNITY!!!

    Patterico (c218bd)

  4. I wonder how many share your view on Fiorina. It’s definitely not the “we have to support our nominee because she’s nominee” position, now is it?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  5. Anybody other than “call me Senator”?

    nk (db4a41)

  6. “There he goes again.”

    Mr. Feet, you do read the posts, right?

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  7. I’m not arguing for unity at all I’m arguing for looking at John Cornhole’s NRSC’s election night betrayal of Christy O and deciding it’s ok if Team R doesn’t get a Senate majority.

    They’re not ready. They simply do not have their act together.

    And if they have a problem with Christy O then they need to sack up and aim some of that derision at Christy’s mentor Sarah Palin who so far is sitting pretty far far away from fiasco ground zero.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  8. I understand why Republicans don’t want negative news about O’Donnell covered: it lowers her chances of being elected and thus lowers the chances of the GOP in recovering the Senate.

    However it’s ultimately completely hypocritical. The same people that are calling right-wing bloggers RINO’s, etc, are the same people who call the media biased, evil, etc. They want it both ways. The OTHER guys have to be un-biased and provide equal coverage of negative and positive stories even if the candidates aren’t equal. THEIR guys, however, are only supposed to support the Republicans.

    It’s, quite frankly, disgusting. Especially concerning O’Donnell, as she has more than a few skeletons in her closet.

    Newtons.Bit (be0597)

  9. One reason discussing these issues in the abstract makes sense is because they are going to come up in 2012. ESPECIALLY if Sarah Palin runs.

    I wonder how many people here think Palin could win in 2012? READER POLL!!!

    Patterico (c218bd)

  10. First, Patterico, do you really want to read more nastiness about Palin from some of the, um, fixated commenters?

    As for the rest, here is what I wrote in another thread. It’s still relevant.

    http://patterico.com/2010/09/18/christine-odonnell-in-1999-i-dabbled-in-witchcraft/#comment-701017

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  11. It’s both character and issues. I’ll take the person with the good heart and the “bad” philosophy, though.

    Boxer loses on both counts with me. She’s a mean female dog with bad ideas.

    nk (db4a41)

  12. you wanna unfixate me you have that woman disavow any desire to molest our presidency with her smarmy panderings

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  13. “…I’m not arguing for unity at all…”

    Well, that is certainly true. Patterico’s point is simple: the kind of invective-filled bile that you have been posting over and over again simply helps to ensure a Democratic victory.

    But you have made clear that you don’t care about that, because a clean and pure conservatism will rise.

    That is, if the new and improved Supreme Court we are going to get is this POTUS wins again will allow it.

    Except I forgot: McCain would have nominated the same people Obama did.

    Sigh.

    Forget I even wrote it. I’m sure you are preparing more Palin Invective at present, while claiming it isn’t sexist and crude.

    Whatever.

    The time to get all snarky and crude is during the primaries. Now we have what I consider to be a much more important fight.

    I understand that my opinion is not shared by many, and that is fine.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  14. To me, a crucial difference is whether to dig for new dirt and report on it, or to merely parrot what is already out there. I would have a big problem with anyone who claims to be conservative. whose living is not made as a “journalist,” striving to reveal new mud on O’Donnell or other conservatives.

    However, I do want to know what is being said and revealed elsewhere. It would be a huge mistake to ask folks like Patrick to ignore such.

    Ed from SFV (44a863)

  15. Here is O’Donnell’s response re the witchcraft. See if you find it deft and humorous, or defensive and clunky:

    Delaware Republican Senate nominee Christine O’Donnell responded to old clips that surfaced over the weekend where she said she had once “dabbled in witchcraft,” clarifying at a GOP picnic in Delaware Sunday, “I was in high school, how many of you didn’t hang out with questionable folks in high school? But no, There’s been no witchcraft since, if there was, Karl Rove would be a supporter.”

    H/T to John Hitchcock, who has essentially disowned me on Twitter, claiming I have engaged in “elitism, out-of-context remarks and strawman tactics.” I feel sure he thinks he is talking to Mark Levin and is just getting mixed up and accidentally typing my address.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  16. I’m going to include that as an update.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  17. Let’s be clear-eyed about what ground we should fight on.

    simply helps to ensure a Democratic victory.

    I think a clear-eyed view of what happened in Delaware and the aftermath would have to include an assessment of some pretty atrocious behaviour on the part of establishment Team R. I think it’s quite hit the enough is enough point.

    Would you trust the establishment Team R whores who savaged and are savaging Christy O so readily and for such little purpose with an ability to lead in a way what elevated principle above expedience? John Cornhole and his ilk are not the future, and I see no reason not to count the sniveling McCain lackey Fiorina as a member of the self-satisfied and whorish Team R establishment.

    For me the trust is gone.

    I am appalled.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  18. I do not disown you all my outrage are exhausted on Cornhole and Rove before I get this close to home anyway.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  19. Witchcraft. Another cross to bear.

    DCSCA (129a9f)

  20. How many Tea Partiers demanding that we line up behind the nominee share happy’s reaction?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  21. “There’s been no witchcraft since, if there was, Karl Rove would be a supporter.”

    Someone is going to have to explain that joke to me. Karl Rove is a witchcraft supporter?

    Oh, I get it. She would cast a spell on Rove.

    OK, that’s not so bad.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  22. You don’t get it feets, Christine, is a proxy, on the big board, for Sarah, as they sabotaged Handel in order to end up with a broke and likely indicted
    Deal. Fiorina isn’t my favorite, you don’t use HPproducts do you, but she’s acceptable. Yes the Politico, NY Times, (the whole old Journolist line
    will be after her, that’s the point of the exercise)

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  23. My initial update read similarly to comment 15 (minus the references to Hitchcock’s Twitter tirade against me). Now that I get the joke, I have changed it to the way it reads now.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  24. The Windy City barrister and knife collector wrote:

    It’s both character and issues. I’ll take the person with the good heart and the “bad” philosophy, though.

    Read Hube’s posts, especially this one. Hube is a conservative Republican in Delaware.

    The sensationalized stuff may have been from her younger days, but lying about her academic record, not paying her taxes, not paying her mortgage and a few other rather shady things aren’t from her younger days, but from the days when she was running for political office. She stated that, if elected, Mike Castle would switch to the Democratic Party — something for which there has never been the slightest bit of evidence in all of his years in the House — and

    weeks after leaving her campaign, former O’Donnell press secretary Yates Walker posted a video online suggesting that Castle was having an affair with a man.

    O’Donnell distanced herself from Walker’s video, but never publicly said she thought the assertion was false. On Friday, O’Donnell criticized the tone of Castle’s campaign, calling him “unmanly” and urging him to “get your man-pants on.”

    Oh, she has an answer for everything, but as I read them, they look more like excuses to me.

    As a Pennsylvanian, I can’t vote in the Delaware senatorial campaign, but the more I see of this race, the more it reminds me of the 1994 senatorial campaign in Virginia, where Oliver North was seeking the Republican nomination against Jim Miller. Lt Col North was an attractive, personable candidate, and held all of the right positions, but Mr North simply had a problem with telling the truth.

    There was a Reader’s Digest, of all places, article concerning Oliver North and his problems with the truth, an article which came out well before the campaign. Both the Miller campaign and the general election campaign of Senator Charles Robb (D-VA) kept pointing this out. Now, you’d think that anyone who was running for office and already had questions about his veracity raised would be absolutely scrupulous with the truth. But I remembered Lt Col North during the campaign, and this simple, harmless story he would tell on the campaign trail. It was about the first paycheck his father received, or something like that, an amusing, homespun tale which had nothing at all to do with the campaign, other than to get people to relate to him. However, it seemed like every time he told it, it changed, it grew in the telling. It was absolutely clear: Mr North was just flat lying, not lying about some covert operation — something I’d certainly understand — but lying about something in which there was no need to lie, nor even any reason to lie.

    If you lie for no good reason, then you are a liar. And if you lie for no good reason when you know that you have political enemies out there trying to catch you in a lie, then it seems to me that you are something more: you are a pathological liar. I doubt that Lt Col North has ever been so diagnosed, by a psychiatrist, but that was my impression of him. I was very glad that the Republicans captured the Senate in the 1994 elections, and I was just as glad that they did it without Mr North winning his race.

    I knew a lot more about Lt Col North — I worked on Jim Miller’s campaign, as a volunteer — than I do Miss O’Donnell, and for that, I am trusting Hube’s judgement; he’s there and I’m not. But my long-distance impressions of Miss O’Donnell aren’t all that different from my impressions of Mr North.

    When we vote, we are not voting just for a list of positions, but for a living human being, someone whose judgement and integrity we trust, because those elected officials will be faced with decisions we may never have foreseen when we entered the polling place. I don’t care how much I might like someone’s positions, if I don’t believe him to be an honest man, he doesn’t get my vote.

    Now, on that last, I have to tell the complete truth: I did vote for Lt Col North in the 1994 general election. Delegates to the 1994 Republican state convention, of which I was one, were required to sign a pledge to support the nominee of the party, regardless of who it was. The North campaign pushed for this, knowing that many of the Miller delegates simply did not trust the Marine, and to have my credentials accepted and my vote for Mr Miller counted, I had to take that pledge. When the general election came around, I held my nose (figuratively) and voted for Oliver North; my commitment to be honest to my own promise outweighed my distrust for Mr North. But I was glad that he lost.

    The Republican Dana (8a8a86)

  25. I still say she should ask her opponent if the Harry Potter books are her favorite, and then laugh.

    It could have been a better joke, yes. I wrote a better one, and I’m not particularly politically deft.

    But we need every Senate seat we can get. Right? Isn’t that the point, after the primaries are over? Given what is going on right now?

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  26. Just so we’re clear me I demand nothing. Support Christy O or not I could care less… the point is that it’s all too easy to imagine Christy O having been a Paul Ryan what had the temerity to challenge a Team R establishment pick and getting savaged for it.

    It’s pretty shocking… obeisance paid to an SEIU toady like Castle is not what we need to see from Team R, especially knowing the work what lies ahead if our little country is to salvage something of her former pride and purpose.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  27. Comments at Ace’s regarding the poll post are interesting. H/T daley. Ace says this:

    You can expect O’Donnell skeptics to join the team and “unite” and so on. That is certainly a reasonable expectation.

    But those of us who were against O’Donnell are never going to be wild cheerleaders for you, because we’re in the exact situation we tried desperately not to be in, that is, having to constantly defend and spin for a very flawed candidate.

    You can/should expect and demand “unity,” but unity from an O’Donnell skeptic will have, unavoidably, a perfunctory quality to it. The same as I would have asked those on the other side to support Castle, but I would not have expected nor demanded that you suddenly become *enthusiasts* for Castle.

    I feel that your statement, robtr, does not reflect the reality of the situation. She’s our candidate, all of our candidate, but more precisely she’s *your* preferred candidate. I can attack Coons and stuff but you cannot expect me to have Mark Levin’s level of passion.

    And Mark Levin, btw, seems to spend more time attacking conservative skeptics of O’Donnell than “focusing on Coons,” too.

    All good points, I think.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  28. You don’t get it feets, Christine, is a proxy, on the big board, for Sarah

    no I understand that… but I should like to think that if the odious pandering tart got the nomination that Team R would support her but I rather imagine many would not. Because she’d be a pretty wretched choice.

    This not unlikely fiasco what you suggest would attend the nomination of Sarah Palin is partly why I try very hard and imploringly and beseechingly to prevent the nomination of Sarah Palin from ever happening ever ever.

    I’m a giver.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  29. I agree with happy.

    “John Cornhole and his ilk are not the future”

    “I think it’s quite hit the enough is enough point.”

    pk (68ed4b)

  30. When I put a poll question on my site, Will Christine O’Donnell win the senatorial race in Delaware, I listed three possible choices: Yes, No, and Hell, no! :)

    The blogger Dana (8a8a86)

  31. Ace is making such great points I have to quote him again:

    [W]e have had big arguments on this site over hte proposition, contended by many, “A strong bright-red conservative can win anywhere just by repeating strong bright-red conservative ideology.”

    I have never believed that. I tell people that Northeastern states are liberal and they seem to think I’m bullshitting them, like I’m talking about Nessie.

    The people on O’Donnell’s side keep seeming (in my mind) to say, “SEE?!! We CAN win anywhere,” and I’m like, “Um, no, you haven’t won yet; I never said you couldn’t win PRIMARIES.”

    And I’m just not going to buy into that claim because I think it is destructive. It’s not true and believing in a fiction like that will cost us seats.

    So while you might say “It’s important to push out Castle, even if we lose,” it’s important to ME that we not give in to this (completely wrong, I think) idea that a strong bright-red conservative can win ANYWHERE. He can’t. It’s not true.

    You know in what respect it’s true? If you had a guy with such non-ideological pluses — accomplishments, bio, charisma, *heroic military service* — that he can win *in spite* of ideology, or irregardless of it; that is, by putting up such a strong personal-qualities candidate, the voters vote for him because he’s so awesome, and inadvertantly vote for true-blue conservatism at the same time.

    If Joe Miller had run in Delaware, *I WOULD HAVE SUPPORTED HIM,* because that’s the kind of guy I mean, the kind of guy who just has such a record that his ideology is almost an afterthought.

    Obviously I do not believe O’Donnell is that kind of candidate. She has a chance, but I don’t think it is a very good one at all. And I do not belive this idea, which I think is perfect nonsense, that we can run the weak candidates on a true-blue conservative platform even in *BLUE STATES* and they’ll win just because of ideology. Even if, like, the state is not a believer in that ideology.

    I think that’s wrong and will cost us elections. I do not think that strategy and realism (okay, “pessimism” if you prefer) can be removed from the occasion. Optimists are great for a lot of things, including elevating the mood, but I would not want to entrust my savings to unabashed optimist.

    I think he’d quickly run me out of money.

    Sure, it’s backwards-looking. But the general points he is making have application to the future.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  32. Christine never stated she practice witchcraft and I would like to see what question Mahre asked to get the response from her. I guess the question is pretty simple for Delaware voters as long as they are not distracted from those who continue to hammer O’Donnell after she won the primary. Reagan would be proud of Patterico for his loyalty to a fellow Republican. The question for the electorate in Delaware is, would you prefer someone who dated a witch in highschool to a person who converted from conservatism to Marxism? We, here, seem to be facinated with O’Donnells past but it is Coons past and present we should be paying attention to. If he wins, he will hold a seat in the U.S. Senate. Just the place for another Marxist. Huh, Patterico?

    Zelsdorf Ragshaft III (bf666d)

  33. Christine O’Donnell is the Most Totally Freaking Awesome Senate Candidate I have seen since I started voting. She is perfect in every way.

    UNITY!!!!

    daleyrocks (940075)

  34. One more from Ace:

    I said O’Donnell couldn’t win. Most of you said, “Fine, she can’t win, that’s not the point, winning is immaterial.”

    Okay, well if it’s immaterial, what’s all the anger about now?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  35. Zelsdorf Ragshaft III,

    Are you going to admit that you got it wrong on Castle voting for the stimulus?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  36. If he wins, he will hold a seat in the U.S. Senate. Just the place for another Marxist. Huh, Patterico?

    Are you illiterate?

    If you think I am supporting him, I suggest you take a remedial reading class.

    And maybe admit you got it wrong on Castle voting for the stimulus. And tell us where you read that misinformation.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  37. Since your average voter doesn’t know what the issues are, let alone your candidate’s position…

    Since Delaware is a heavily Democratic state…

    Since midterms are low turnout elections…

    Are there enough passionate Tea Party Republicans in Delaware to outweigh the Democrats who are going to vote out of a sense of duty? A grand total of 57,584 people voted in the Republican primary. There’s your hardcore. They have to persuade the middle to break their way.

    How much of a break?

    To give you some context, in the 2008 general election the Democrat candidate for governor, Jack Markell, beat his Republican opponent by over 140,000 votes (William Lee received 126,662 total votes). Note: O’Donnell was 116,944 votes shy of Biden (who was running a pro-forma campaign for Senate as he focused on bigger things).

    In 2006, Democrat Thomas Carper (170,567) earned more than 100,000 more votes than Jan Ting (69,734).

    In 2000, Carper defeated Roth, the moderate incumbent Senator of a small state, by 38,675 votes. The context here might be fascinating.

    Roth, who only won by 26,534 votes in 1994(!!!), who was your classic RINO as far as I can tell, won by small amounts in years that were especially good for Republicans.

    Delaware is a Democrat state. If you’re a Republican, by all means vote for O’Donnell. If you’re thinking about donating money, I wouldn’t advise you waste it on this long-shot.

    Fritz (3036f6)

  38. I agree with the strategy outlined in the post. This year, I think even in a liberal state, it has a shot at working. (Delaware, after all, is nowhere near as liberal, or Democratic, as Massachusetts.)

    As for O’Donnell’s response, I thought it was kind of witty.

    gwjd (032bef)

  39. Mr Blair wrote:

    That is, if the new and improved Supreme Court we are going to get is this POTUS wins again will allow it.

    Except I forgot: McCain would have nominated the same people Obama did.

    Yeah, uh huh, right. Even if Senator McCain is really a raging moderate, do you think that there’s no middle ground between John Roberts and Sonia Sotomayor, between Samuel Alito and Elena Kagan?

    And there is a middle ground: his name is Anthony Kennedy. We might not like his decisions on some cases, but on others he has been on the right side — pun intended.

    The practical Dana (8a8a86)

  40. The turnout for the Senate race in 2006 was 242,972. For O’Donnell to win, she’ll need to get 121,487 votes (50% +1).

    She’ll have to almost double Ting’s efforts. This is when she’s already run once and couldn’t break 40% against a guy who didn’t run much of a campaign and wasn’t expected to actually hold the office.

    Fritz (3036f6)

  41. Fritz – Comparing her run against Biden, who was their Senator since around the beginning of time, during a big Team Socialist election, and an upcoming run against a bearded marxist in what is projected to be a big Team R election is not really a fair comparison, no?

    JD (8ded14)

  42. Fritz wrote:

    In 2000, Carper defeated Roth, the moderate incumbent Senator of a small state, by 38,675 votes. The context here might be fascinating.

    The context of that vote is that Tom Carper was a fairly popular Democratic governor at the time — governors are the people most likely to be able to defeat sitting senators — and William Roth was 79 years old at the time and was showing some major infirmities of age; he passed out at least once on the campaign trail.

    And while Senator Roth’s 1994 re-election margin was only 38,675 votes, that was still a 56% to 42% margin; there were slightly fewer than 200,000 votes cast in that election.

    The Dana who used to live in Delaware (8a8a86)

  43. JD,

    Of course you’re right.

    That’s why I’ve included the data from 2006, 2000, and 1994.

    Roth had been a Senator since 1970 and yet in 1994, a big Team R year, he had his third worst showing. In 2000, Roth, a moderate, small-state Senator since the beginning of time, lost in a year that was a toss-up.

    None of it looks good.

    Fritz (3036f6)

  44. Dana,

    Low turnout and low information are the keys to understanding mid-term elections. Is there anything about the electoral history of Delaware that can give heart to the O’Donnell campaign? I haven’t seen anything.

    Fritz (3036f6)

  45. No, Fritz, I can’t see anything there either. That said, stranger things have happened . . . though not very often.

    The Dana who used to live in Hockessin (8a8a86)

  46. Christine just cannot win
    To think so is just plain spin
    To those aware
    In Delaware
    She comes from the loony bin

    The Limerick Avenger (8a8a86)

  47. If it’s true (as I’ve heard it claimed) that Coons jacked up property taxes when he ran his county, then overspent even with all the new funds and bankrupted the county, then THAT must be the central issue. Hit it again and again and again and again and again. And again and again. And again. Response to witchcraft? “Yes I was a witch, but not a guy who bankrupted my county after raising taxes. Yes that’s a dead body in my driveway. But at least it’s not a tax hike and a bankrupt county.”

    The witchcraft thing will be a late-nite comedy bit for a little while, then blow away in the wind. In her big speech the other day O’Donnell cleverly (I thought) neutralized some of her other issues (college degree, mortgage) by deploying the “I was born with a plastic spoon in my mouth” defense with charm and without being overly cloying. (Well you can’t escape being at least a little cloying when you play that card.) I don’t how other character issues can be neutralized.

    Bigger issue for me was the speech itself, which was well-composed and had some great lines, but she came off sounding (at least to me) like she was reading someone else’s words for the very first time.

    Granted pols usually don’t write their own speeches, but it’s a sign of native intelligence to be able to sound as if you did. If she sounds like a parrot people will question her intelligence. She needs to work on that.

    But then, at least a parrot doesn’t jack up taxes and then bankrupt the county!

    See what I did there?

    d. in c. (a8cc3a)

  48. Christine thinks she’ll win
    but the Delaware voters
    won’t think so this Fall

    The Haiku Avenger (8a8a86)

  49. There was a lady named Christine,
    Whom the Devil they say she has seen.
    She said “I read some books,
    And at other things given some looks,
    But I never committed a sin”.

    nk (db4a41)

  50. “Delaware Republican Senate nominee Christine O’Donnell responded to old clips that surfaced over the weekend where she said she had once “dabbled in witchcraft,” clarifying at a GOP picnic in Delaware Sunday, “I was in high school, how many of you didn’t hang out with questionable folks in high school? But no, There’s been no witchcraft since, if there was, Karl Rove would be a supporter.””

    Questionable? It’s downright hokey!

    imdw (53b665)

  51. Practical Dana: I don’t mean to tussle with you, but honestly. You are falling prey to “purity” arguments.

    Which do you like better on the Supreme Court? Kagan or Kennedy? Of course, if you follow what I have seen before, you are going to tell me that Kennedy is worse that Kagan will ever be, or that they are somehow indistinguishable.

    Politics is not about good versus evil. It’s about bad versus worse.

    And if you take the attitudes you are, you will get more Kagans or Sotomeyers. Maybe two more. And of course you will then say that more Kennedys would do the same thing as more Kagans. Mind you, you have utterly no evidence for this, other than your hatred of McCain. We do have evidence of the kinds of people Obama will appoint, however, and I suspect that your hatred of McCain trumps all. Not you personally, I am speaking generically of Purity People.

    Please own it, if that happens. It’s like when my parents were all over me about Perot. They didn’t expect Perot to win, but they were sending a message.

    Too bad the reply was eight years of Clinton, and all that followed. Making them own their part in making Clinton possible was one of the saddest times in my life.

    The problem is that Purity People refuse to own their position, and to claim that somehow, Real Conservatives will rise up. Some Purity People will openly state that the whole system needs to come crashing down in order for a New Conservative Cibola to be founded. No evidence, mind you, and plenty of evidence for what is happening.

    Again, the place to get all Pure and Mighty is during the primary process. And you might be surprised how often I might agree with you then.

    Not so much afterwards.

    I read the above and it sounds angry. I’ll quit posting about any of this.

    But honest to God, if you folks put Obama back in the White House, and leave Pelosi and Reid in power, and then complain about what they do….well, thanks so much.

    I guess I am cranky. I spend too much time reading this kind of thing, I guess.

    Best wishes to all, and I apologize for my temper.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  52. So O’Donnell has ‘fessed up to witchcraft?
    Well then now she can practice her glitch-craft!
    It’s just toil and trouble,
    Not a Fannie-Mae bubble.
    Hint to Dems: you’ll find payback’s a bitch-craft.

    d. in c. (d9926c)

  53. http://greendel.org/?p=9732

    These people do not seem to care much for Hairy Reid’s pet Coons.

    JD (8ded14)

  54. Us folks did not put OBarcky in the White House, Eric, nor will we be the ones to return him there.

    JD (8ded14)

  55. UPDATE: You want to know why else the “bearded Marxist” shtick won’t work? Because it’s mendacious. As it turns out, the reference does not withstand further scrutiny. Don’t take Weigel’s word for it, follow his link to the Politico article, which I refuse to link because of my boycott, and make up your own mind.

    It pains me to pass this along, because I have no desire to support the guy, but having made the reference to him as a “bearded Marxist,” I feel I have to pass along the truth. It was a humorous reference to something his friends said. You can pile on all you like. I still refuse to pass along something I know to be deceptive.

    His positions are bad enough. I’m sticking with the truth on those.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  56. Patterico – Bury any negative stories about O’Donnell. That way nobody will find out about them. The MFM had incredible success getting Obama selected using this approach and there is no reason you can’t act like the lying sack of sh*t MFM we complain about all the time. It’s the approach True Conservatives want you to take to get behind Christine.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  57. If it’s true (as I’ve heard it claimed) that Coons jacked up property taxes when he ran his county, then overspent even with all the new funds and bankrupted the county, then THAT must be the central issue.

    Maybe I’ll look into that, then. Where did you see that?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  58. http://greendel.org/?p=9732

    Patterico – I do not speak to the veracity of these people’s claims, but they outline a far sinister view of Coons than a little wiccan that disagrees with people beating off.

    JD (8ded14)

  59. If it’s true (as I’ve heard it claimed) that Coons jacked up property taxes when he ran his county, then overspent even with all the new funds and bankrupted the county, then THAT must be the central issue.

    The more I read about these people, and her in particular, the more I read information about her that concerns me. It’s amazing people are pissed off about the things I have written about, when there is so much more, which I didn’t know about it all because I don’t spend my life doing this. Did you know she said: “American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains.” WTF? That’s from a transcript from a Bill O’Reilly show.

    Dude, I’m not gonna lie. Defending her as a person is a bad idea. Talk about what she stands for and leave it at that.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  60. Mr Blair, perhaps you should re-read my comment. Where do you find my “hatred of McCain?”

    I was disputing the stated notion, stated by you, that “McCain would have nominated the same people Obama did.” Perhaps you were employing sarcasm, and I just missed it.

    John McCain, had he won, would have been a mushy moderate and a mostly middling President. He wouldn’t have been much good, though he’d be a clear sight better than the gentleman who is currently our president.

    The puzzled Dana (8a8a86)

  61. I do not agree with your characterization of the bearded marxist quote being mendacious. He wrote it, and though it is in the context of his friends making a joke, it is abundantly clear that was their view of him, something he does nothing to refute, and in fact, what follows seems to confirm that at the very least, he became a blame America anti-capitalist leftist quite early in life.

    JD (8ded14)

  62. what does it say about Sarah Palin’s judgment that she went to bat for a litigious non-masturbating witch?

    Does Sarah Palin hate America?

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  63. “where did you see that?”

    I think over at Ace, but to tell the truth I’m not sure, which is why I was tentative and “if”fy about it. But I only read a small number of blogs that talk about this race so either Ace or Hot Air might be a good bet.

    d. in c. (f89659)

  64. Where did the Wiccan thing come from anyway? Did she say Wiccan in the clip? I heard “Satanic altar.” Does that equate to Wiccan? I admit ignorance on the subject. But munching down a picnic on a bloody Satanic altar — sorry, folks. That does not say “voter appeal” to me.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  65. JD: thanks for the link. I’ll see if I can get to the bottom of it.

    That is, if the veracity of the claims matters. I’m not saying it doesn’t to you, JD, but I wonder if it does to many.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  66. picnics with Church’s fried chicken with slaw and Satan and tasty ribs and frosty root beer

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  67. I would not have voted for her in the primary but this is an unusual year. If she shows wit and a light touch in response to the attacks she will get, on the order of Sarah Palin, she could win a wave election.

    The fact that Joe Biden was elected all those years shows that intellect and logic are not strong issues in that state. She does have a nice smile and that might be enough given the Biden precedent.

    Mike K (11fb04)

  68. Mr. Feets – Are you as worried as nishi about the Masturbation Militia hunting you down if O’Donnell wins?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  69. JD:

    The bearded Marxist thing sounds like teasing adopted in jest.

    Kind of like me calling myself a jackass.

    If I ran for political office, I can easily see people trying to smear me by saying I called myself a jackass.

    But it would be mendacious.

    You don’t have to agree. But I’m not using that term to describe him any more.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  70. hells yeah I’m worried I don’t have cable you know

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  71. They should all be public record, since they were done by Coons in the role of his elected office.

    I think that calling the bearded marxist quote mendacious, and a WTF on a statement that she clearly made a mistake about the mouse/human thing is going to give a lot of justifiable ammo to those that already target you, BTW.

    JD (8ded14)

  72. They did not pick out bearded marxist by accident.

    JD (8ded14)

  73. If Christie can be called a witch for something she did in the 1980s, why can’t Coons be called a Marxist for something HE did in the 1980s? I don’t get it.

    As for whether to report this information, yes it should be reported (although someone at the Castle campaign really should have found this stuff out sooner), so put me down in the 47% camp on that one. However, I don’t think its helpful to engage in “what the hell were they thinking in nominating her” Monday Morning Quarterbacking, especially since it’s, you know, still Saturday.

    Sean P (a82c1f)

  74. yeah JD’s right it doesn’t seem random and I think it would be a mistake to say that it signified nothing at all

    I think it’s a solid clue where the guy is coming from

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  75. I can attack Coons and stuff but you cannot expect me to have Mark Levin’s level of passion.
    Comment by Patterico — 9/19/2010 @ 4:45 pm

    No one expects any Castle supporter to behave like Levin. For goodness sakes, grow up. (and yes, I know you didn’t write this, but you have quoted it as being good stuff.

    Yes, yes, O’Donnell’s a loon. She’s stark raving crackers, crazy, nutso. She’s a wiiiitch. She’s the worst candidate. You warned those Tea Partiers and warned them and warned them, and now that that crazy second stringer managed to beat your guy, you’re warning those wack-jobs some more.

    That’s what we need. We MUST re-hash that primary if for no other reason than to remind people that o’Donnell is a liar, and a loon, and a low class uneducated loser to boot.

    I know – she’s nuts.

    You know, it’s getting kind of hard to hear you with all the whinging going on.

    It seems to me that while Levin is a sore winner, the anti-O’Donnell people are sounding more and more like sore losers.

    Yeah, I know, I’m hiding my head in the sand. I’m just angry because the forces of pragmatism (well, the forces of pragmatism for thee but not for me) are letting the world know that O’Donnell is an absolute loon that that there are thousands of better candidates out there.

    I’m getting quite sick of the whining and the repetition of all of O’Donnell’s myriad flaws, and I’m someone who, had they lived in Delaware would have voted for Castle because he WAS more electable.

    So then, yes, she’s a loon. A crazy. A nutcase. And EVERYTHING that the left throws at her NEEDS to be repeated ad nauseum because it helps push the “I tried to warn you – she’s crazy” narrative. This primary NEEDS to be re-fought. Or we’re all sticking our heads in the sand or something.

    Yes, Levin lied about you. He said sh*tty things about you. He did not exactly reflect glory upon himself in this. But unceasingly dumping on O’Donnell doesn’t help.

    But then it’s YOUR blog and if it makes you feel better….

    wadikitty (a14371)

  76. Even Coons is not disputing it, so why should we?

    JD (8ded14)

  77. I think that calling the bearded marxist quote mendacious, and a WTF on a statement that she clearly made a mistake about the mouse/human thing is going to give a lot of justifiable ammo to those that already target you, BTW.

    Ammo? Sure.

    Justifiable? I don’t think so.

    I’m not saying you can’t disagree re the bearded Marxist thing, but I personally think it’s unfair and out of context. That doesn’t mean I think YOU are being mendacious if you disagree; it just means you disagree. Which is fine.

    The mice with fully developed human brains: yeah, sorry, but WTF. Who says something like that? Like fucking up whether you won or lost or tied two counties in your last election, it’s a hell of a thing to make a mistake about.

    That said, I’m interested in this story about the house that got all the citations. Who has written about this? Can anyone give me any links? I don’t need something that just repeats/quotes the allegations from the post JD linked, since I already read it. Has anyone done any further legwork on it? If so, please let me know; I don’t want to reinvent the wheel.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  78. Calling it mendacious does not leave much room for reasonable people to disagree.

    It is not a hell of a thing to make a mistake about when people were doing experiments like this …

    http://bioethics.net/journal/j_articles.php?aid=1239

    Obviously, she made a mistake.

    And she is not a bearded Marxist.

    JD (8ded14)

  79. “Even Coons is not disputing it, so why should we?”

    Here’s an idea: just repeat it over and over as if it was the only profundity you had ever achieved.

    imdw (4fe3dc)

  80. a lot of my best friends are mice I didn’t know this was a mousist blog I feel uncomfortable

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  81. Vote for Castle because if you vote for O’Donnell you’ll elect Coons and Coons will give you bad judges and bad justices and if Castle is elected that’ll give us 49 Republican Senators and 49 is the new 51 so we can have control over the Senate and not have any more bad justices and judges but if I were in the Senate I would have voted for Sotomayor because if I didn’t Obama would have given us a worse one and I would have had to vote for the worse one and besides now that you voted for O’Donnell that just guarantees we will have a Democrat President in 2013 and we will have to let even more bad judges and justices on the courts and all is lost because you didn’t vote for the squish Castle but voted for O’Donnell who acted like a child when she was a child and now we can throw the Constitution away all because people in Delaware got rid of the squish and voted for O’Donnell.

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  82. I dunno if blurting out some mixed up jibberish about mice brains is a character issue in the way we usually interpret them… it certainly isn’t an ethical lapse.
    It’s a gaffe.

    I’d be more concerned about the allegations of financial improprieties with the campaign funds and then lying about it.
    That is the type of character issue that matters

    SteveG (cc5dc9)

  83. Our esteemed host wrote:

    The mice with fully developed human brains: yeah, sorry, but WTF. Who says something like that? Like fucking up whether you won or lost or tied two counties in your last election, it’s a hell of a thing to make a mistake about.

    I followed your embedded link, and it wasn’t from the Lost Kos or anyone like that: it was a transcript of the O’Reilly Factor, directly on the Fox News site.

    The lovely Miss O’Donnell is either an idiot or wholly deranged. Sorry about that to those who support her, but she is. My greatest concern isn’t the Delaware senate seat — that one is already lost — but that our good friends on the left will use Miss O’Donnell’s idiocy to tar other TEA Party backed candidates, and perhaps cost us a couple other seats.

    The saddened Dana (8a8a86)

  84. Calling it mendacious does not leave much room for reasonable people to disagree.

    Then it’s the wrong word. Look: this is how I feel. Now that I know the full context, I think that the way I have been thinking about it when I hear the term used is so lacking in context that it seems unfair when I know the whole context. That is because I see it as a light-hearted reference to friends’ joke.

    If you interpret it differently than I do, then there is nothing deceptive about your use of the term. We simply disagree about how to interpret it.

    Make sense?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  85. I dunno if blurting out some mixed up jibberish about mice brains is a character issue in the way we usually interpret them… it certainly isn’t an ethical lapse.
    It’s a gaffe.

    Correct. It just makes her sound like a complete ditz.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  86. imdw – How many names have you commented under at this site?

    JD (8ded14)

  87. Delaware elected a total complete and unadulterated ditz to the Senate since the beginning of time.

    JD (8ded14)

  88. my dad managed grocery stores when he was little so I think that’s part of the backstory of what happened… one day me and dad were at a store I think it was a Piggly Wiggly – we were in the mid-west somewhere for whatever reason and I was very small – so a little mousey scurries into the aisle and BAM dad stomps on it and splatters mousey fairly spectacularly and then he picked a flier up off one of the shelves and put it on top of the bloody mess and went and told an employee it was there

    wow I thought dad is very decisive about mouses

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  89. Vote for Castle because if you vote for O’Donnell you’ll elect Coons and Coons will give you bad judges and bad justices and if Castle is elected that’ll give us 49 Republican Senators and 49 is the new 51 so we can have control over the Senate and not have any more bad justices and judges but if I were in the Senate I would have voted for Sotomayor because if I didn’t Obama would have given us a worse one and I would have had to vote for the worse one and besides now that you voted for O’Donnell that just guarantees we will have a Democrat President in 2013 and we will have to let even more bad judges and justices on the courts and all is lost because you didn’t vote for the squish Castle but voted for O’Donnell who acted like a child when she was a child and now we can throw the Constitution away all because people in Delaware got rid of the squish and voted for O’Donnell.

    I go to a writing class with my daughter on Wednesday nights. It’s designed for fifth graders but requires parent participation. The last class was an exercise in writing an entire piece with no punctuation, just connecting your thoughts with the word and, and letting your thoughts flow freely.

    It was fun. I wrote about Rock Band — I saw a parallel between the exercise and the way that a tough song in Rock Band just keeps going whether you’re keeping up with it or not.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  90. now we can throw the Constitution away all because people in Delaware got rid of the squish and voted for O’Donnell

    You know, there was a Truth Before Dishonor guy who was accusing me on Twitter of engaging in strawmen.

    Funny, that.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  91. “There’s a saying among lawyers: if you have the facts, pound on the facts. If you have the law, pound of the law. If you have neither, pound on the table.”

    If you’re a liberal Dem lawyer you ignore the law, make up the facts and steal the table from the taxpayers.

    Dave Surls (425086)

  92. happy: look at it this way. At least that horror happened in the days before mice had fully developed human brains.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  93. If you’re a liberal Dem lawyer you ignore the law, make up the facts and steal the table from the taxpayers.

    That got a literal laugh out loud from me.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  94. Just like that.

    imdw (150cd7)

  95. yes that is a mercy

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  96. Thats’ about the size of it, JH, forget about SB 1070, or the military tribunals, or the operations in Afghanistan, or Obamacare

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  97. If I’m O’Donnell’s handlers, I have already gone to her and said, “Christine, you’ve got to tell us everything you said on “Real Time” that might in any way be considered embarrassing, and we’ve got to get a general statement out now.”

    The reason why you have to do that is if you don’t and there are other tapes out there, Bill Maher is going to release things like the witchcraft video, or the “I wouldn’t save the Jews” video in dribs and drabs over the next seven weeks. If you don’t deal with the entire issue now, the O’Donnell camp will never, ever, ever get the swing voters she is going to need to win to focus on Coons’ Obama-like political beliefs, because the O’Donnell camp is always going to be thrown back on its heels by a new YouTube brush fire they have to put out, which is turn will give both the state and national media a reason not to focus on Coons’ Obama-like political beliefs.

    That may not be fair, and, at least as of when I’m posting, 19.48 percent of the people over at Ace’s sight may get angry about it, but that’s the reality — as long as there’s new information out there where the words “Christine O’Donnell” and “unusual” can be used in the same sentence, side issues unrelated to how the candidates differ on the issues is going to remain the focus of the election.

    John (8dd4e7)

  98. You know, there was a Truth Before Dishonor guy who was accusing me on Twitter of engaging in strawmen.

    Funny, that.

    You kinda caught part of the intention of that, Patterico.

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  99. imdw commenting in a thread about character should shatter everyone’s ironymeter.

    JD (8ded14)

  100. I phoned the fellow who wrote that piece about Coons and the crazy charges relating to his property. Left a message. We’ll see if he calls back. If not, there’s probably little more I can do, with the paltry time I have to devote to stuff like this.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  101. Ah, so your whole comment, John Hitchcock, was a collection of strawmen? Is that what I am understanding you to say?

    And if so: your point in doing so??

    Patterico (c218bd)

  102. Delaware elected a total complete and unadulterated ditz to the Senate since the beginning of time.

    True — and, like the “Ted Kennedy killed someone” defense, leads me to ask if that is our new standard. Christine O’Donnell: hardly any more ditzy than Joe Biden!

    Patterico (c218bd)

  103. Thats’ about the size of it, JH, forget about SB 1070, or the military tribunals, or the operations in Afghanistan, or Obamacare

    What does that comment mean??

    It does give ideas for more things to look up Coons’s statements on, though. So thanks for that.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  104. I used lots of arguments you made and gave them minor twists, which made them a bit inaccurate. I also chose not to use any punctuation in a massively large run-on sentence for the purpose of showing a (bitingly) humorous intent. Of course, when some things are explained, they become “less than”.

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  105. Patterico,
    It is not a hell of a thing to make a mistake about when people were doing experiments like this …

    I don’t know exactly what you meant by that, but her statement about “mice with fully functioning human brains,” badly distorts what happened. The survival of a few brain cells in a mouse does not equal a human brain.

    The purpose of the experiment is to get a more accurate model for testing drugs for neurodegenerative diseases. Mice neurons behave differently than human neurons, and human neurons in a cell culture behave differently than when inside a living body.

    So the goal of such experiments is not to outdo Frankenstein, but to find out how well a drug works and whether it has potentially dangerous before it’s tested in people.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (fb9e90)

  106. I think it is safe to say that the Republican primary voters were given a choice between craptacular and almost Dem. Maybe a bit of hyperbole.

    I was not suggesting that should be our standard, just pointing out that the voters of Delaware seem to care very little about ditziness in their Senators.

    JD (8ded14)

  107. I think the case on O’Donnel is made in this Politically Incorrect clip, where she’s discussing sex ed with now Senator Al Franken:

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/christine_odonnell_vs_al_franken_in_1997_sex_condo.php

    imdw (8a8ced)

  108. _______________________________________

    The fact that Joe Biden was elected all those years shows that intellect and logic are not strong issues in that state. She does have a nice smile and that might be enough given the Biden precedent.

    But Biden was of the LEFT!

    I know a variety of conservatives will rationalize away the shortcomings of a politician if he (or she) appears to be of the right. (Hello, Mark Levin!) But you’ll get 20 times — if not a 100 times — more of that from the left. After all, being a liberal means never having to say you’re sorry.

    I know it’s hope against hope, but it will be nice if the story of O’Donnell and Castle doesn’t turn out to be an example of rightwingers expressing such frustration over the leftist tilt of America, particularly since 2008, that they end up being their own worse enemy and creating a situation that tilts things even further left—ie, “Meet your new Senator from the great state of Delaware, Chris Coons!!!”

    Mark (3e3a7c)

  109. Our esteemed host asked:

    True — and, like the “Ted Kennedy killed someone” defense, leads me to ask if that is our new standard. Christine O’Donnell: hardly any more ditzy than Joe Biden!

    Or Chris Coons! :)

    Were I still a resident of the First State, I’d be looking up and down the Delaware ballot, to try to figure out for whom to vote. Jim Rash is the Libertarian Party candidate, so I suppose he’d get first consideration, but I really know nothing about him. But he is probably smarter than a mouse, even one with a fully functioning human brain.

    The amused Dana (8a8a86)

  110. Brother Bradley – I was not speaking to the science, nor was I even offering that specific experiment in her defense. I was pointing out it was an obvious gaffe, and should be treated accordingly.

    JD (8ded14)

  111. “I was in high school, how many of you didn’t hang out with questionable folks in high school?”

    Hell, I WAS the questionable folks in high school…but, I’m not constantly trying to run for public office, so my colorful past isn’t much of an issue.

    It would be, if I ever stood for office, though, so I think it’s better for my side if I don’t try to run for public office. There’s plenty of people out there whose past isn’t an issue, and those sort of people make better candidates, IMO.

    Dave Surls (425086)

  112. JD,
    My bads — first for misunderstanding, then for attributing it to Patrick.

    I think my brain cells need some rejuvenation . . .

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (fb9e90)

  113. “wow I thought dad is very decisive about mouses”

    Mr. Feets – I like when their little feets get stuck on those peanut butter traps what are supposed to be humane and they drag them all over the room cause they can’t get unstuck. Doesn’t seem too humane too me, but better than a thwap! your back is broke suckah old timey trap.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  114. “I think the case on O’Donnel is made in this Politically Incorrect clip, where she’s discussing sex ed with now Senator Al Franken:”

    imdw – Do you have a wanking problem as well?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  115. ______________________________________

    so I think it’s better for my side if I don’t try to run for public office

    Has O’Donnell ever mulled that rather selfless concept over in her mind? Or has her friggin’ ego and need for money (in the public sector or wherever the wind will blow her) been a bit too intoxicating?

    Mark (3e3a7c)

  116. Patterico, maybe you should visit some other blogs such as Legal Insurrection and the Daily Caller. O’Donnell won. Get over it, or would you prefer Coons? Guess you will deserve just a little thanks should O’Donnell not prevail. She dated a witch in HIGH SCHOOL. Sheech!

    Zelsdorf Ragshaft III (bf666d)

  117. Zelsdorf – Did Castle vote for the stimulus?

    JD (8ded14)

  118. or would you prefer Coons?

    Why are you asking him or anyone of us in this forum? Ask all the goddamn “lefties” and “centrists” (aka closeted liberals) in Delaware. They’re going to decide her fate. Not us.

    Mark (3e3a7c)

  119. Her human mice-brain comment (or whatever it was) doesn’t necessarily make her a ditz, although she may well be one regardless. Depends on the context. If it was said in the course of light conversation, in a spirit of credulous informality, then what she probably meant was sort of something general about alarming scientific advances coupled with lax human bioethics (which is a genuine concern), and maybe she reached for an embellished example and was lazy about it. I do that in casual conversation too once in a while; blather and embellishment and “exagerrating to make a point” are house specialties of us Celts. If strict accuracy is required for the context then I raise my game accordingly; but if it’s just for blather, well… It may be just a conversational style more than an IQ marker. (But maybe not, I wouldn’t know, just speculatin’.)

    If she was making some sort of a formal pronouncement then, yes, it’s a worry. But for instance I saw the actual “witchcraft” clip and it all had the feel of just college-dorm bullshitting. If people like Maher and Jon Stewart can hide their political swipes behind “Hey I’m a comedian!” then maybe O’Donnell deserves a few free “I was lounging around shooting the shit” passes as well.

    d. in c. (7eb321)

  120. Gossip isn’t always newsworthy.

    RightKlik (20fc6c)

  121. “Has O’Donnell ever mulled that rather selfless concept over in her mind? Or has her friggin’ ego and need for money (in the public sector or wherever the wind will blow her) been a bit too intoxicating?”

    Mark – I guess being a professional talk show guest is a tough way to make a living.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  122. happyfeet wrote:

    wow I thought dad is very decisive about mouses

    This was, I certainly hope, not one of those mouses with fully functional human brains!

    Of course, being as it was your father, I suppose that was before the Clone Wars. However, Pluto has grown up to become quite the mouser . . . and birder; we frequently find dead mouses on the porch, and she once jumped up and snagged a bird right out of the air. Now I shall be worried that Pluto is committing murder rather than just mouseslaughter.

    Mouses, is that correct? And who was it who said, “I hate meeses to pieces?”

    The Dana with cats (8a8a86)

  123. Zelsdorf – When you get your facts straight maybe people will take you seriously.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  124. It takes a troll like imdw not to notice the extreme ridiculousness of comparing Al Franken to O’Donnell.

    At the most charitable, it establishes that O’Donnell meets and exceeds Democrats’ standards for a Senator.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  125. The third Mr Ragshaft asked:

    Get over it, or would you prefer Coons?

    In elementary school, one of the common no-win questions was, “If you were standing up to your neck in [enter slang term for urine here], and someone threw a bucket of [enter slang term for feces here] at your head, would you duck?”

    Sometimes, the order of waste material in the question was reversed. We thought ourselves extremely clever in the fourth grade. :)

    The Dana who remembers elementary school (8a8a86)

  126. No one has talked Delaware Politics since its statehood …. this women drives folks mad.

    Heavensent (e230a5)

  127. that looks like a very stalwart kitty cat Dana Mr. Instapundit had this earlier this weekend what talked a little bit about how hard the kitty cats are on the birds

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  128. link

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  129. I just got off the phone with the guy who wrote up that piece JD linked above about Coons. Seems like a very nice and perfectly level-headed guy — and a far-left person politically, who thinks Coons is “personally malicious” and will not vote for him.

    I will write it up tonight if I can. Goal is publication late tonight or early tomorrow morning.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  130. Why is a self admission by the author who wrote “the making of a bearded Marxsist” something not to be taken seriously. If you read what he wrote. He esplains clearly his thinking behind the change. Does not sound to me to be mendacious. He quoted how he spoke with a business man in Kenya who claimed the poor were that way because they were lazy and stupid, or words to that effect. Guess some left leaning college prof. told him the American rich believed the same thing. Looks like the prime blogger on this site prefers Reid’s pet, a Marxist to the GOP candidate who won the primary election in her state.

    Zelsdorf Ragshaft III (bf666d)

  131. As much as I appreciated the debunking of the bearded marxist remarks, it isn’t one off hand remark that matters… it is one’s body of economic work.
    Was that remark a window into his mind?

    I did OK back 10 years or so in a biotech stock that humanizes monoclonal antibodies in mice.
    If you listen to the description of the work in the wrong light you’d be thinking the movie “The Fly” but with mice.
    That speaks to ODonnell’s lack of sophistication, and a lack of intellectual curiousity about “facts” she’ll regurgitates.
    That is a flaw… one she needs to get straight with if she wants to be in the big leagues.

    SteveG (cc5dc9)

  132. Zelsdorf,

    Did Castle vote for the stimulus?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  133. “At the most charitable, it establishes that O’Donnell meets and exceeds Democrats’ standards for a Senator.”

    Did you watch the video? God weren’t the 90’s so grand?

    imdw (8bb588)

  134. You know, this all boils down to one thing. Regular people can’t be elected.

    Don’t get me wrong, O’Donnell may be regular folk, but left or right, you have to be the correct person.

    If I wanted to be elected a school board member or a dog-catcher, it would never happen. I don’t know the right people, and when I did know the right people, and I did, they considered me a fool. Probably with good reason.

    Being elected means playing a political game and most people have no idea of the rules. It may be akin to corporate America, but it is a different landscape.

    In actuality, it is more like the NFL draft. Although many are talented, very few succeed. And the money goes to the ones who do.

    The Tea Party is attempting to level the playing field. They may be successful in the short term.

    All we do is cheer on the sidelines.

    Except, of course, we are really pissed off.

    So, you could say O’Donnell is an idiot, and she may very well be, but it doesn’t take an idiot to raise a trillion dollar debt.

    After all, the smartest people in the world caused it.

    Who does it take to solve the problem? I don’t know. But, don’t tell me it’s those smartest people who caused it.

    Ag80 (5c7ef4)

  135. Looks like the prime blogger on this site prefers Reid’s pet, a Marxist to the GOP candidate who won the primary election in her state.

    So, you like making things up?

    JD (8ded14)

  136. Hell, I WAS the questionable folks in high school…but, I’m not constantly trying to run for public office, so my colorful past isn’t much of an issue.

    It would be, if I ever stood for office, though, so I think it’s better for my side if I don’t try to run for public office.

    Dave Surls, I’ve been thinking about this and you bring up a good point, but, I think be up front from the get-go, own the skeletons, don’t spin it, don’t try to hide it and wait for it be exposed. Get in front of it, reassure people you’re not the same person, and then move on to what matters – the issues. Articulate them clearly, succinctly and unwaveringly. Aside from the colorful past being crime or moral depravity, if your principles line up with mine and you show yourself to have integrity and a fierce fighter for those positions, I would vote for you. But if you lie, hide, or obfuscate, I’m looking at the other guy.

    O’Donnell can’t possibly be the best and brightest candidate out there but she is what there is right now. It’s really hilarious that her colorful past being focused upon are her narrow views of masturbation and witch dabbling. I guess lies and misrepresentation and issues of integrity just aren’t that sexy.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  137. Hey, that is really cool that Patterico interviewed that guy. The post I read did not paint a pretty picture of that nasty bearded marxist, Hairy Reid’s pet Coons. Heaven forbid the MFM do its job.

    JD (8ded14)

  138. “At the most charitable, it establishes that O’Donnell meets and exceeds Democrats’ standards for a Senator.”

    SPQR – It also reinforces the left’s laser focus on sex, sex, sex.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  139. As opposed to cokesnorting tax dodgers with anger management issues, eh daleyrocks.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  140. Wadikitty–you’ve popped in here a few times and are obviously a passionate supporter of O’Donnell. If you’re still around, help us to be supporters, too. You’ve begged Patterico and others to quit talking about her flaws because you believe that’s helping Dems. Fair enough–but right now masturbation and mice and bloody altar picnics are what’s being discussed out there in net land and MSM-land–regardless of Patterico or Ace. It’s ugly and may be unfair, but “it is what it is”. And it’s killing her.

    Obviously, for O’Donnell to prevail in November the subject must be changed immediately. Her image must be restored. The narrative about her has to tell an alternate story that demonstrates her good qualities, her American spirit, an intellectual capability and policy heft. So, give us some other talking points that are true and verifiable. Give us some ammo. Provide us, from your perspective, with a gospel we can go out and spread in conversations with friends and on blog site comment threads. (Examples of speeches she’s written, links to articles she’s published, TV appearance vids that did not involve Bill Maher, radio show transcripts, whatever.) This is away you can help her. Thanks

    elissa (027a2f)

  141. SPQR – I have no knowledge if Mark Levin has snorted coke or dodged taxes.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  142. Eh, personally I am bored with her. Ooooo, she dabbled in witchcraft. As I said in the last thread, um, so?

    I’m no fan of her’s, mind you, but its pretty thin gruel. Better to talk about her being dishonest or her personal financial issues, but then Coons ran a locality into the fiscal ground, and worse yet he is promising to keep doing the stuff that is running this country into the ground.

    Feel free to cover it, patterico, but be careful not to fall into the trap of confirmation bias, where you want so badly to prove she was a bad choice that you end up pushing weak stories against her. In my humble opinion you crossed that line with the witchcraft thing. I really do not get upset at her for trying something a little different in her life.

    I think the best way to decide that is to ask yourself “would it make a difference to me.” If not, then why assume it will for anyone else?

    Lying, if I can find some real substantiation as to that, is a serious issue.

    Ditto with her personal finance issues. That is a valid concern.

    But I don’t know anyone who would get too upset with her trying something out and so evidently rejecting it.

    By the way, as for the idea that marr has more, well, on that you are taking his word, and you and I both know how lawyers operate. We start with the worst thing and then the second worst thing, and so on. So there is a very good chance he has already “shot” the worst of his wad.

    But she is distracting from all the other tea party races, so even if she loses, she will serve a purpose.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  143. elissa – That was so unfair.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  144. _________________________________________

    Ultimately, it’s not about O’Donnell or Castle. It’s about all the idiotic people within the human species — and there are a ton of them in Delaware (and in California, and in Mexico, and in Europe, and in Canada, and in Venezuela, and in Africa, and in urban America, etc) — who believe that liberal sentiment, and liberal people, and liberal politicians, and liberal policymaking are so beautiful, so noble, so compassionate, so lovely, so nice, so generous, so kind, so touching, so civilized.

    IOW, you got to treat that part of humanity the same way that frazzled parents treat devious, spoiled, brat-faced kids. And since we live in a democracy, those “kids” can’t just be swatted on the ass and sent off to bed without supper—even though they deserve it. Therefore, you got to maneuver around them the same way you’d maneuver around children with “special needs.” So you can’t take anything for granted about the way they’ll respond to anything that might make them pout and whine—ie, people and policies they’ll perceive as a form of mean, un-fun, unkind discipline (generally, anything of a rightist tilt, or sort of like “Dad” coming home to discipline the foul-mouthed kids).

    Again, Delaware is full of a lot of dumb-ass, we’re-so-wonderful liberals and liberalism — meaning it’s like a classroom full of juvenile, brat-faced kids — and that should never be forgotten when dealing with people like O’Donnell, Castle, Coons, Biden, etc.

    Mark (3e3a7c)

  145. OK, here’s a tip: Pound on Coons, and leave O’Donnell alone. How hard is that? How dim are some of you people?

    Greg (cea954)

  146. Face Palm action here

    elissa (027a2f)

  147. So talking about witchcraft is an “issue” and spending your guts out (Coons) is not? Get real people

    J. Philip Martin (9d1bb3)

  148. You see if you provide context for these utterances, like it was a show on the eve of Halloween, and she was explaining how she came to have distaste for it, or the fact that the mouse story had been in the news, around the time of the O’Reilly interview, or that she didn’t make up that
    aspect of Catholic (and most Christian) dogma, you’re no fun anymore.

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  149. J. Philip Martin,

    In a low-information, low-turnout election, with a heavily Democrat leaning electorate, yes, witchcraft is an issue.

    Fritz (3036f6)

  150. “Aside from the colorful past being crime or moral depravity…”

    LOL.

    If you want to know what I was like in the late 60’s, early 70’s just look at P.J. O’Rourke and multiply that by ten.

    Dave Surls (425086)

  151. Greg and J.Phillip are just trying to get their pats on the back for doing their part.

    JD (8ded14)

  152. You mean like the one where Macaca defined the sum total of George Allen’s career, along with some comments that Larry SAbato, suddeny ‘remembered’
    from thirty years, where Tom Delay was the designated bete noire, despite the fact that the original indictment was reversed, where there was nothing to the US Attorney brouhaha, despite the
    big buildup by Josh Marshall, the infosphere is what you chose to focus, and what you ignore; re
    Journolist, for a refresher course

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  153. Heh. Dave, it’s cliche but true – drugs, sex, and rock ‘n roll all wrapped in a lefty spouting package is pretty much the common man’s story. Dif is, most people grow out of it.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  154. JD – They are sort of like the Obamabots we got in 2008.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  155. ian – Don’t forget Foley.

    JD (8ded14)

  156. Dana – Reality is for those people who can’t handle drugs.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  157. ian – Nobody has responded to elissa’s plea for the good party line on O’Donnell. Ignore my flakiness, see my website for counters are not great selling points.

    Attack my opponent works, but deflection still needs to occur. Help a brother out.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  158. If she was running for governor or president, I would not vote for her. But since her only job as senator would be to vote on bills that come her way, I would vote for her, as she has said she’s a fiscal conservative and we can hold her feet to the fire. That’s far better than Coons or Castle ever promised.

    I saw Ace’s poll, and I thought a true choice would have been, publish all news about both candidates. Why else have we forsaken newspapers but to get the truth??

    Patricia (9c62d9)

  159. JD, if you’re still up, check the main site for the post you helped me with on Coons.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  160. Yeah about that Coons post…
    Oh nevermind.

    It’s too bad Christine had that context in the clip that Michelle pointed out.

    Because coming on Halloween season the witch thing could have really played well.

    How about the three girls from Charm to do a spot for her?

    Out of the question, I guess. She’s against Halloween.

    papertiger (e8f3ba)

  161. Re elise I don’t think she needs to change the channel. All she needs to do is jump on board. The witch is a powerful symbol for women. Liberating and all that.

    It leaves the Dems looking like this.

    papertiger (e8f3ba)

  162. And it makes our girl look like this.

    papertiger (e8f3ba)

  163. I am with you on this Patterico, and Ace..We have to know you we are voting for or supporting, both sides…and if this lady was a RINO or if Castle had won I doubt very much if a lot of people demanding we not discuss the subject would be half as interested in unity.

    The truth is my standard is much the same as yours, but I like to know what I am dealing with. People did not look closely enough at Obama and look how that turned out.

    So yeah, the witch thing I don’t care about, but I do think it will make her look a little sillier, which she does not need.

    But I would still rather see the Senate seat go to her than Coons even if I do have questions about her character.

    Terrye (7d99e4)

  164. The one issue that may be most open to misunderstanding is Coons on cap-and-trade. A number of states in the midwest through the northeast are already running a form of cap-and-trade accommodation, largely in coordination to state commitments to development of shale gas deposits in that area of the country. I think many here would be in for something of a surprise in seeing how much more mainstream is the support for cap-and-trade there than in other parts; that is, there is a lot of conservative and Republican money and commitment to that policy in those parts, just as there there is a lot of liberal and Democratic money and commitment in opposition to cap-and-trade outside of the shale states. Its a great and important issue for national debate, but in many states and regions, the debate has been under way for some years now and conventional views are pretty well set; plus politicians who have been in executive positions there are able to point to specific, hard examples of home budgets that are affected by it.

    My guess is that voting for cap-and-trade had a lot less to do with the Mike Castle defeat than folks outside the shale states understand.

    shooter (32dc25)

  165. Yes, Terrye, you’ve been trying to drown her all week, even before, I guess she’s not a witch after all. Now Coons has raised taxes and it hasn’t improved the situation, so based on that experience,
    seeing how big an influence his county has, how doeshe expect to win, One figures the wave that is rippling through the country will hit Rehoboth beach as well

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  166. Shooter likes to pull things from his rectum.

    JD (f3d5ec)

  167. JD @ 164: Not so much since I put away childish things and started doing adult things — like SEC compliance opinion input on inter-state cap-and-trade exchanges. If you’re saying they’re not good policy, then there’s lots of room to argue, and I might even agree with you; but if you’re saying they don’t exist, then you’re either ignorant or untruthful – your pick.

    shooter (32dc25)

  168. I think some right-wing politicians set themselves up for a fall when they tout “family/moral values” during their campaign. If you are going to do that, that’s fine. But if it comes out that you, say, “dabbled in witchcraft”, it certainly sets up a credibility issue for your opponent to use — and credibility is ALWAYS an issue in every campaign.

    O’Donnell has fallen into such a trap.

    Kman (d25c82)

  169. Kman should be able to show us where O’Donnell ran on a family values platform in this campaign. But clearly, dating a dude in high school that was enamored with the occult speaks to her character.

    Shooter – I called BS on your fanciful scenario where cap and trade is a good and popular idea in the midwest. Use rubes know it will destroy the economy and jack up costs to consumers, while enriching government and the chosen few.

    JD (f5ff7f)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.4896 secs.