Patterico's Pontifications

9/1/2010

L.A. Times: Sarah Palin Expected to Seek 2012 Presidential Nomination

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:13 am



They drop this comment casually, in a story about Murkowski’s defeat:

Miller, a Fairbanks attorney and decorated Gulf War veteran making his first try for statewide office, had trailed Murkowski in fundraising and in opinion polls throughout the campaign.

But he had Palin, who bucked state party leaders to endorse him; and the Tea Party Express, the political action committee that spent $600,000 on ads assailing Murkowski as insufficiently conservative and promoting Palin’s endorsement. Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee also backed him. Both Huckabee, who was unsuccessful in his bid to be the GOP presidential nominee in 2008; and Palin, the party’s vice presidential nominee that year; are expected to seek the 2012 Republican presidential nomination.

I knew that a Palin run was considered a possibility, but when did the prospect become so solid that a major newspaper can factually report it as an “expectation”?

And, now that I have your attention: should she be seeking the nomination?

I’ll get the discussion started by saying “no.”

233 Responses to “L.A. Times: Sarah Palin Expected to Seek 2012 Presidential Nomination”

  1. Maybe I can get Larry Sheldon to declare that he is going to quit reading my blog. Again.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  2. Well, soon there will all kinds of classless and supposedly cutsey name calling in this thread, just like before. Blech. See you all later.

    Eric Blair (ffe6ea)

  3. It’s a bit of inference, but it’s better founded than most assumptions that the Times indulges in,

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  4. Yep; more snarky pixels from grumpyfeet who, on this subject, seems to be channeling Excitable Andy.

    Old Coot (fc2376)

  5. I’d love Palin to become the conservative Oprah.

    And if it came down to Palin v Obama, I’d go with Palin (for her anti-corruption instinct alone).

    Jim (d084ab)

  6. I sincerely hope she doesn’t seek the nomination, but fear that she definitely will – and then perhaps win, and then we’re all truly screwed.

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  7. Palin for prez? No, thank you.

    She’s personable, and I tend to agree with what she says more often than not. But I don’t see her being taken seriously on the world stage. Although she has vastly more administrative experience than Teh One, I still don’t see her as sufficiently tempered.

    2016…conceivably I could change my mind. But not for 2012.

    Do I think she’d have a chance to get the nomination? Unfortunately, yes I do. And I think that would spell defeat. Nor can I currently recommend another who I’d prefer to see nominated, at the moment. But that wasn’t the question.

    rtrski (336865)

  8. Is it really that likely?

    Really?

    Patterico (e28d10)

  9. Palin has been my top choice for President since 2007 and nothing in the last three years has changed my mind about that. I know that a lot of people I respect highly disagree — that would include you, Patterico.

    But that’s all I’m going to say because I think we need to stay focused on 2010 lest the cat exit the bag. Why are Obama’s approval numbers rising on Gallup and Rass this week?

    DaMav (6ab8ce)

  10. If I am right that whoever we nominate will lose, maybe we should nominate her and get it out of our system.

    Patterico (e28d10)

  11. The world stage was taken in by the climate change fraud, they bay for Israel’s blood, clamored for
    Barack Obama, they rooted for us, on 9/11 as long as we didn’t do anything.

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  12. no she should not seek the nomination and she should say so very very slowly and very very clearly to where even her fan clubbers can understand

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  13. It is too early to talk about 2012. Remember how annoying long the last presidential election dragged on? Let’s keep the eye on 2010.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  14. Palin has been my top choice for President since 2007 and nothing in the last three years has changed my mind about that.

    I was a big supporter of hers before she was nominated. But you have to be able to handle the media better than she does. Complaining about its bias can be valid — it’s the reason my site exists, for the most part — but it gets you only so far as a presidential candidate.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  15. Happy

    I can see 75 years from now some kid asking their parents after looking at another marble statute of some woman grilling a moose, and asking

    Whats “you betcha means?”

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  16. I don’t see why that is necessarily right, what has Obama that would entitle him to a second term, his
    performance in this one, so far is ‘heck of a job’ worthy.

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  17. I would be thrilled if Sarah was president.

    However, I don’t see her having much of a chance this cycle. So, coming from a purely pragmatic place, I hope she does not run.

    If he can get past the blame of the insurance mess in Taxachusetts and gain the GOP nomination, I think Romney would wipe the floor with BHO, or any Democrat, in 2012.

    Ed from SFV (54e760)

  18. IMO, the question of Palin is really “What other choices do Republicans have?” (other than to pick an obvious loser like Dole or McCain). The 2012 field is weak right now. No-one else stands out like her. My attitude is to watch and wait. Convince me you are worth my support. (And warmed-over 2008 candidates don’t really appeal that much.)

    Note: the LA times article link is bad; it links back to this post. I think it should have been:
    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-alaska-vote-20100901,0,3110180.story

    Eric E. Coe (662cd3)

  19. So you think “no” on a Palin candidacy. Who would you choose/ Huckabee? Strong RINOish tendancies, called a conservative who opposed a tax hike a “Shi’ite.” Personality-wise, not strong. Mitt? Mister Romney-care, pre-Obama-care, the Republican chameleon? He might be a RINO, but maybe not this week. Pawlenty? Christy? Daniels? If so, what makes them preferable to Palin.

    Bottom line: no Republican has been on the front line like Palin. She has taken the slings and arrows of Dems, the media, and RINOs. There is no question about how she will govern. That can’t be said about the other Republican front runners.

    Scott (05c2f1)

  20. Patterico, your point is scary, and I fear you are right. We on the Right have forgotten Reagan’s “Eleventh Commandment.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eleventh_Commandment_%28Ronald_Reagan%29

    Now, RR didn’t always follow it either (nor was it original with RR). But folks on the Right seem to LOVE dissecting their own candidates for a lack of perfection.

    Fair enough.

    But the Left seems to just get behind their guy or gal, no matter the lack of experience, flip-flops, or outright lies. All they really care about is their Narrative. In fact, my guess is that they would vote for the “D” no matter what their gal or guy said or did.

    There may be cracks in this edifice.

    But the DNC counts on the Right doing this, and they count on their own people being alphabetist.

    This doesn’t mean I think that anyone with an R after their name is grand. It does mean that, particularly now, more Ds mean terrible things in the short term….for the country.

    I have no solution. But the pursuit of a “perfect” candidate will give us four more years of BHO, and all that entails.

    Just my opinion.

    Eric Blair (46847d)

  21. Have spent quite a bit of time thinking about this and I think two things:

    1. She has the experience, the temperament and the capability to be President. Is she completely ready today, 9/1/10? No. Is she intelligent enough for the steep learning curve required to be ready if she were running for President? IMO, absolutely.

    2. You would never know # 1 was true from how the media presents her. They have been afraid of her since Day One in August 2008, quite literally , and I can’t remember a time there was as concerted an effort to destroy the perception of a serious politician, not even Dan Quayle (who is a very intelligent man who made a few high profile mistakes).

    If the media played up all of Obama’s many innocent gaffes as much as they did Palin’s, he’d look like a drooling moron too. And he’s no moron. Which of course is the point of Ed Morrissey’s daily feature at Hot Air, “Obamateurism of the Day.” The double standard is really discouraging.

    And, I fear, the latter is too successful to eradicate the public perception of Palin as an attractive, stupid, unserious person not ready to be President. She was, by far, more qualified to be President (even though she was only running for Vice) than Obama was in 2008. And they knew it. This is just one of the reasons am glad to see the MSM in decline.

    no one you know (196ed7)

  22. I won’t bestir myself for to vote for Palin Romney Pawlenty Gingrich Huckabee.

    That’s just pitiful.

    America has become a strikingly low-rent sort of place but not yet does it deserve none of that.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  23. re: ian #11, I guess I should clarify. I don’t give a gobsmack what the world thinks in terms of wanting to placate them or make them “like” America. That’s been a bung-up from the start of Teh One’s idiotic, apologetic ascendance. I’ll go on record saying I don’t think any American President should ever want or receive the Nobel Peace Prize, given the current make-up of the Nobel committee and the decay of the ‘prize’ into a political statement. Ditto the UN’s hijacked “human rights” committee endorsement.

    I do however think a leader who is not ‘taken seriously’ (a la accorded some respect as an adversary who will stand up for his/her own country’s best interests) will be tested, continuously, and (if my personal belief re: Sarah as not yet sufficiently tempered is true) that opens up all sorts of additional opportunity for missteps that cost American lives without good cause, or otherwise work against American interests both domestically and abroad.

    rtrski (336865)

  24. I say no as well. She did not handle the media well and so needs to spend a few more years digging herself out of that hole. Yes, it was unfair, but she took the bait.

    She serves a better purpose as an inspirational leader, IMHO.

    Patricia (358f54)

  25. Well he is, and he proves it every day. You really think Putin or whoever is at the top of the PLA
    clique really believes that weak caricature of her.
    Deeds matter, what she did and continues to do with
    the oligarchs in her own state. Yes, she is no longer in office now, but the reality is she is
    more effective without one for the time being.

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  26. America is a great place – we are a strong economy and nation – we will survive Obama, even Palin, maybe not Huckaee

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  27. Palin 2012? Should she run? Answer: why not? Should she win the nomination? Answer: if she convinces enough people to vote for her in the primary, why not? Will she win the general election if she becomes the GOP nominee? Answer: who knows.

    Now, then, the real point of contention should be whether any GOP nominee deserves to win the nomination with about 35% of the primary vote. 2008 conclusively establishes that the answer must be, “no.” Should Palin-or any other candidate-start the avalanche of victory early, solidify the GOP base, run on ideas that make sense, and aren’t muddled by 35 years of electoral compromise, she can win a general election. The same is true, of course, for any of the other proto-candidates.

    Palin started with nothing, no money money to speak of, and through sheer force of will has placed herself in a position to consider a run for president. Mitt Romney, on the other hand, started with everything, gobs of money, and through sheer force of will placed himself into third-place, behind Huckabee in 2008. Who’s to say that any given person isn’t a serious candidate until the race begins? Might Palin implode? Possibly. Might Romney (or Huckabee, or Paul) exceed expectations and shake of the stench of defeat? Possibly. Let’s find out, though, through a campaign, and not what we anticipate might happen at some point in the future.

    GregP (c67522)

  28. Before we worry about 2012, we need to take out the trash in 2010. Stay focused.

    Mike Myers (3c9845)

  29. I like Palin, I like her family, I just dont think she’s electable and she cannot handle the media, criticism, resistance, compromise.

    She is patriotic, loves her country

    Running it, undoing the damage that has been done, hearding 60 ego’s into agreement

    Ask yourself if this is the person for the job

    Also her becoming a Beck-y isnt helping

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  30. That’d be a “no”, big guy. But I do expect to see her in a Romney cabinet.

    Frank Drebbin (8096f2)

  31. she could be secretary of quitty quitty fail

    happyfeet (19c1da)


  32. she could be secretary of quitty quitty fail

    Comment by happyfeet — 9/1/2010 @ 8:18 am

    Well, I suppose it depended on what her ultimate goal was (for both herself and the state of Alaska) and whether her calculations re: that were correct.

    Were they? I don’t know. (I don’t know what her end goals are.) She could just be a quitter and that’s that.

    But I’ve changed jobs several times in my life, each a stepping stone to the dream job I have now, at the highest pay I’ve ever received. Three times I’ve taken a pay cut to change those jobs, and all the times I worked hard to make sure the position at the company I left was in good shape so the next person could do well right away.

    If hypothetically some people thought the right goal for a job is to make the most money right now, they could call me a “failure” and a “quitter.” If they saw my end goal like I did, then it was the opposite of “quitting:” I was simply putting myself in a situation to reach my goals better (and in Palin’s case, possibly have a governorship more efficient since it wasn’t being constantly the subject of baseless ethics investigations that never went anywhere).

    JMO.

    no one you know (196ed7)

  33. Palin should not run. Whatever her reasons were for dropping out as AK governor, she would face 10x as much of that while running for Pres. If she can’t handle it, she should not be a candidate. She should do what she does well, which is to rally the base.

    Daryl Herbert (817927)

  34. 31.she could be secretary of quitty quitty fail

    She’s making your head explode. That’s something that was harder to do as Governor. I’m good with that. Not to mention you libtards were going to bankrupt Alaska with all your lawsuits while she tried to do her job. Funny how truth and a force for good makes you all writhe in pain.

    PatriotRider (17f47b)

  35. Frank

    I dont think this is an environment where a Wall Street insider richy rich boy with a liberal/moderate governatorial record could raise a nickel outside his own money and monied interests

    in other words – 100 million still wont buy him a nomination – got him about 17% last time

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  36. I am in why not run category… Personally, I like her but avoid the speeches (her voice/accent is like nails on a chalk board for me)–but I like her policies and written remarks.

    How she handles the press–There has been know one with an “R” next to their name that “handles the press” well at–at least as the press defines it.

    However, she does live in their heads “rent free”–And is probably responsible for some of the mainstream media’s crash in popularity/paid subscriptions/advertising in the last few years (their downward decline seems to be accelerating).

    Would it have been better if she stayed as governor of Alaska–Probably yes. However, it seemed the freak show/lawsuits up there were going to bankrupt her family and had already cost the state a lot (cash and distractions) too.

    From my point of view–it was probably a 50/50 decision as to whether staying/leaving was the best for everyone involved.

    BfC (e660ad)

  37. I’m not a liberal at all at all at all I just think the low-rent candidates Team R is putting forward for 2012 is very very disheartening.

    It’s like all of America has started to think of their president as the winner of some trailer park reality tv show.

    I guess that will be Obama’s legacy.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  38. No. Please no. She would be better than EPWJ and F*ckabee, but that is about all.

    JD (d606fc)

  39. Personally, would love to see more of what Col. Allen West and Paul Ryan have to say over the next year or so. Don’t know enough about either of them to say I’d vote for them now, but IMO both of them are quite impressive GOPers.

    no one you know (196ed7)

  40. I wouldn’t want her to run for President.

    But, why would she give up the power she currently has? She has a good team around her; they have her in a position where she can anoint others. But that team isn’t the team she’d need for a Presidential run. She would need to have someone cut-throat working with her right now, like Rove or Emanuel. And a cut-throat person wouldn’t have her making risky calls like backing Miller over a sitting Senator. That type of adviser would have her backing Murkowski over a novice candidate that is more aligned to Palin’s preferences.

    Running for President for 2012 will spend all of the political capital she’s been building up over the last year. Her build-up of anti-establish bona fides means that the establishment would turn on her. That said, she’s working up to something big, but I doubt she would make it through the primaries in 2012.

    Xmas (f11756)

  41. I guess we will have to wait, until primary season.

    Your first mistake was assuming the LA Times to be a news source, instead of a propaganda organ … Easy mistake to make.

    tarpon (0d210f)

  42. Paul Ryan is very very deeply America. Paul Ryan and Mr. Daniels. They bring the conversation our pitiful little country desperately needs to be having.

    Paul Ryan and Mr. Daniels and Marco Rubio.

    Paul Ryan and Mr. Daniels and Marco Rubio and Chris Christie when he’s not being all cheesy appeasy about building victory mosques.

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  43. The question “Should she be nominated to run for President on the GOP ticket” is irrelevant; Palin’s running in ’12, and she’s going to dare us to reject her. With all the political carcasses she left around in the Alaska wilderness, she’s able to do so.

    The real question is: Is anyone else in the GOP able to create their own media buzz to the point where they can effectively trump Sarah Palin at the political celebrity game? Find someone to do that, and you have someone who can beat Sarah Palin.

    Forgive me if I’m skeptical that there’s anyone in the GOP who is capable of such a feat.

    Brad S (9f6740)

  44. <blockquote>Whatever her reasons were for dropping out as AK governor, she would face 10x as much of that while running for Pres. If she can’t handle it, she should not be a candidate. She should do what she does well, which is to rally the base.

    Comment by Daryl Herbert

    Daryl, no, she would not face ten times as many Alaska Ethics complaints in the WH or while running for it. That was a particular issue of her situation as governor that she quit because it was impossible for anybody to run the state the way that issue was handled by the reform laws of the state. It simply isn’t true that the ‘defect’ in Palin would exist even more strongly.

    In my most ideal vision, where someone awesome other than Palin is running, I worry that Palin will suck out all the oxygen in the primary.

    In reality, where the contenders I’m aware of are far worse than Palin, being Huckabee, Romney, Gingrich, and Pawlenty sorts, I strongly hope Palin does run because if she runs I think she will win. If she wins the primary, she will win the general. I realize there is a lot of conventional wisdom that she can’t beat Obama, but that’s just not true. anybody who would campaign hard against Obama would beat him under average conditions. With the economy and the world suffering from Obama’s miserable policies, things will favor the challenger.

    I do believe Palin carries more negatives than other candidates bring, and while any GOP candidate will receive the deranged treatment, Palin simply will get it much worse. That hurts her chances, but polls show she can beat him, already, and that’s without a real campaign or the polarization of a nomination. She’d can win.

    She’s a smart person with some proven leadership skill, who has been focused on policy issues for some time now, endorsing, taking issues apart, etc. She’s doing the homework, so to speak.

    Is 22 months of experience running Alaska well, with policies that have continued to run it well and led to real reform, enough? Sadly, there really aren’t that many people with credibility on reform that speak to the Tea Party movement like Palin does.

    the problem is that Palin sucks all the oxygen out of the debate very quickly. I think she’d be a good president, actually, but if there is someone better running, their campaign will suffocate. Until they show up, I say ‘yes’, I hope Palin runs. If they do show up, they better pray they receive Palin’s endorsement.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  45. media buzz will be a lot the x-factor in Trailer Park Trash-Off 2010 I think

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  46. sorry I meant 2012 I get confuzzled cause it’s starting so early

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  47. Comment by EricPWJohnson — 9/1/2010 @ 8:32 am

    There’s a richy-rich girl out in CA who’s raising and spending Presidential campaign money to win a mere governorship, and is well-positioned enough to win that governorship.

    Not bad for a former business partner of Mitt Romney to do that.

    Brad S (9f6740)

  48. Your snark belies your comment that you are not a liberal, happyfeet.
    As for Palin, even 2020 is not too late.
    The questions for the GOP are these: Who can beat the Teleprompter Reader of the United States? Who can do the best job of unraveling the maze that the TROTUS and his lieutenants, Pelosi and Reid, have created?
    I would not look to most of the current crowd of prospective candidates. Allen West, if he can get elected to Congress this fall? Mitch Daniels, even though he’s declared himself out? John Bolton, even?
    What I see in the current crowd is a potentially great Cabinet for a GOP president. Palin at Energy would make heads explode. Romney at Treasury would have an opportunity to undo Little Timmy’s nightmares. Bolton at State or Defense would be terrific. Pawlenty at HHS with the express purpose of recreating the old HEW and abolishing Education.
    Pat, I’m with you in that I don’t think Palin should run this time out under current conditions. See me after November, and I might have changed my mind, depending upon how big the electoral tsunami is.

    either orr (6d4ded)

  49. I just think the low-rent candidates Team R is putting forward for 2012 is very very disheartening.

    I agree completely, Happyfeet.

    I of those low rents, I would happily pick the folksy and somewhat less experienced one who appears to have actually acted like a real reform leader for some period of time.

    Ideally, we would have a governor of a much larger state who had reformed or less conservatively and brilliantly for a very, very long time. Or a legislator like Ryan (who I would vote for over Palin, but I doubt is running) who could show some extra quality that gave me faith in his capabilities.

    This isn’t ideal. When I think about how we have to settle on one of these likelies, I think Palin’s a good, not great, result.

    For many other Palin fans, I suspect something entirely different is going on. She represents a renewed battle in the culture war, and she must be vindicated to show those who have tried to ruin her. I am not opposed to that happening, but it’s not worth screwing around with the presidency.

    Anyway, she’s probably going to run and she’s probably going to win, in my imagination. Is that really so bad? Imagine she beats Obama. Is it really so awful that she has the nuclear launch codes, faces down Putin, deals with a nuclear Iran, reforms the federal government by making unpopular choices? I think it’s better than replacing her with Romney or Huckabee, surely. It’s not even close to the ideal, though.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  50. Trailer Park Trash Off! (Trailer Park Trash Off)

    The American Century came and went!

    Trailer Park Trash Off! (Trailer Park Trash Off)

    America picks its President!

    sponsored by Axe Body Spray

    phone lines open in 14:37

    14:36

    14:35

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  51. I don’t think that the MFM will allow Barcky to lose in 2012. Daniels/Ryan in 2016 is my bestest hope.

    JD (d606fc)

  52. No, sadly he’s a Fagan/Savage type, they salt the ground, in their uncompromising stance, it’s more than infrequent in my view. The former quite belatedly discovered the virtues of Mr. Miller, even those in the know, unlike Mr. Conservative, knew of him at least a month ago, Colonel West, which I had the privilege of listening to at CPAC last year is a formidable candidate, under any conditions. We labor under the burden of Rick Scott
    at the top of the ticket, but we will still likely
    prevail

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  53. I think the Obama camp, and their willing accomplices in the media, sufficiently trashed her that she hasn’t got the credibility on the national scene to win. I fear, like Patterico, that she DOES have the ability to grab the nomination.

    We DO have choices: Tim Pawlenty, Mitch Daniels, Bob Riley, Bobby Jindal, Haley Barbour, to name just a few. No, none of them has enough name recognition TODAY . . . but 2012 is a long ways away.

    Also, I’d like to echo the others who’ve suggested that we need to concentrate on 2010, first. And if we DO win a majority, we need to keep their feet to the fire to govern like CONSERVATIVES. A little fiscal discipline, guys???

    Right Wingnut (e49c24)

  54. I think the Times deludes itself that mentioning Palin will bring all the stinky feet out of the woodwork and somehow make Democrats look better. I don’t know if she will run but I think she would certainly be an improvement on the president we have now.

    The Alaska situation that caused her to resign is unique in that anyone can bring an ethics charge and not responsible for any of the costs of investigation while the accused has to bear all the cost. This was a campaign conducted by the DNC that worked only because of the quirk in the law.

    Also, if you don’t know how many nuts there are in Alaska, you don’t know much about the state.

    Mike K (d6b02c)

  55. And I think we will also learn that many people who like to carry on about how awful things are right now sat out the next election.

    Why, some are already saying they will sit it out next time, too!

    Four more years of BHO. Probably two more SCOTUS justices.

    Purity of Essence. And it gives them endless things to complain about, while having sat things out.

    I’m not pointing fingers. I just have seen this act before, and it results in things that are VERY Left of center from folks who claim not to support that kind of thing.

    Sigh.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  56. Eric, for what it’s worth, i’m just as frustrated with my friends on the left who are threatening to sit out this election because they’re so pissed off that they haven’t gotten (single payer / cap + trade / closure of guantanamo / pullout of iraq & afghanistan / dadt repeal) that they want to teach the democrats a lesson.

    aphrael (73ebe9)

  57. The comment was only put in there to pull happyfeet’s chain.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  58. The only candidate I can’t stand, is Huckabee, oh and Ron Paul gives me gas. I’ve stated my preference, rather clearly, most others are negotiable. I would rather that one wouldn’t use lies and dishonest memes as an argument against them, we’ve had plenty of that

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  59. Keynote speaker at the GOP convention and important person in GOTV effort – Pres candidate – no thanks.

    VOR2 (c9795e)

  60. News they want people to forget is unexpected. Speculation they want people to remember is expected.

    No, I do not want Palin to run. She failed to complete her term as governor and the last thing we need is another symbol in the white house.

    Amphipolis (b120ce)

  61. Eric Blair, might I ask, do you think the problem of conservative turn out will be more pronounced if Palin is the nominee, or if Romney is?

    I’m turning out either way… both are better than Mccain and I turned out for that dude.

    So did Happyfeet, btw. I think he’s so opposed to some of these folks because he knows he will vote for them anyway in the general and can’t stand the idea. Am I being unclear? The idea of having to vote for Romney in the general is very frustrating to me, though I’d do it.

    I think feets would turn out for Palin… and this may speak ill of Palin’s supporters, but I think they include many of those who sat out in 2008 and are partially to blame for this catastrophe. Am I wrong about that?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  62. Baseball analogy….

    She got called up to the Bigs late in the season, and made a few rookie mistakes. She went back down to the Minors, and worked out a plan to deal with her weaknesses, and emphasize her strengths.
    Then, BAM, in July she got released from the organization she had grown up in, and was forced to (in effect) go “free agent”.
    Since that time, at every appearance, her performance has improved to the point that pitchers fear seeing her stride into the box, and runners know they have no chance legging a single into a double.
    Every sportswriter in the pressbox hates her because she holds them to account over what they have written, but the fans continue to fill the seats (reminds me of The Splendid Splinter)…

    So far, this season, she has a remarkable record of picking winners. Nov 2 will tell the tale: If her picks grab the gold ring, she will be a power in the Party that the power-structure in DC cannot deny, on fear of loosing all they have; because it is appearant at this point, that no-one in the GOP wants Sarahcuda as a leader except the troops.

    With the ascension to power of quite a few “Momma Grizzlies”, and picks like Miller, the outcast ex-Gov of AK will be an inside power within DC, and be able to encourage (demand) major changes in the way the Party conducts itself (a National Chairman who is smarter than he so far has demonstrated, would be seriously circulating his resume at this point).

    A reminder:
    Though Paul Ryan is an impressive guy, it’s been a long time since someone came out of the House to run for National Office (successfully). Successful Prez and VP candidates come mainly from the several States’ Capitols, and secondarily from the Senate.

    Plus, channelling Letterman:
    He’ll have plenty of time to vacation after his first (and only) term is over – this doubles-down if the feared, and expected, Double-Dip occurs; for even with a Congress that stops the idiocy of Teh Won, it will take at least 18-months to get things moving again (that would be with some help from the WH, which can’t be expected from such an ideological resident).

    We don’t have to nominate the absolute best candidate in the World, all we have to do is find someone more competant, and who relates to the average American better than, the Bamster (and at this point in time, that doesn’t seem to be too difficult).

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)

  63. With a little over two years to go before the next presidential election, it is a bit early to crown the next nominee for president. I personaly think John Bolton would make a fine candidate, while Sarah Palin may wield more influence from the sidelines.

    Barsinister (5280fc)

  64. Yup. She’s the best we’ve got and better than most people realize yet. She’s smart, she’s savvy, and she can turn the political establishment upside down (which is exactly what many of us have wanted for a while.) She’ll run and she’ll win.

    alwaysfiredup (e0dae6)

  65. Extremely well said, AD.

    The perfect is the enemy of the good. Palin makes it difficult for weaker candidates to win a primary… perhaps impossible if I am reading things right.

    Her rogue status came from her repeated disagreements with a campaign run very, very, very badly, and her political vision since then has been very sharp… she’s not just going to be a popular character, she’s going to run her campaign better than the alternatives. Even Mitch Daniels, an excellent campaigner, probably doesn’t have quite the political skill.

    That’s not to say she’s the perfect candidate. She is not. But I think her background shows she’d be a good president. A lot of people are annoyed with her more rapid supporters. Me too. Maybe I come across as one too, noting that her resignation was a sign of intelligence and leadership that we don’t see very often from politicians in that situation.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  66. “John Bolton would make a fine candidate, while Sarah Palin may wield more influence from the sidelines.

    Comment by Barsinister ”

    Hey, I’d vote for Bolton too! He’d be excellent. But even he admits he isn’t a strong candidate, and would merely shift the other candidates on extremely important issues.

    Palin may indeed wield more influence as things are now. I think her life is also much easier. But she’s running and beating her will take someone very special.

    JD’s smart to pick Daniels. It will take a very, very good campaigner to pose a threat. Think of it this way: if they can beat Palin in the primary, they are ready to take on the beast of the Dem Machine. Perhaps I shouldn’t be so concerned with Romney, then.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  67. I don’t know Mr. Dustin. I’m gonna practice for 2012 by sitting out my first election ever in 2010. I’m gonna go get tasty pancakes instead, which I’m very excited about. I voted for Meghan’s daddy and that felt like a vote what had no integrity whatsoever. It felt dirty and obscene.

    I’m not up for another such just yet.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  68. Palin gave as well as she got against the press IMO. She drives them crazy because she refuses to stay down and gets right up again. Daniels has quite a good record as governor. He should stop the atheist-bashing, however.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (fb9e90)

  69. Even without the imprimatur of an official candidacy, the type of cretinous lies purveyed by Vanity Fair will be the standard, maybe some of us wouldn’t be so rapid, if the media wouldn’t be so irresponsible. We’ve seen this pattern before on Romney and Jeb in ’94, against W, with Palin being
    the apotheosis, of the thing

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  70. I urge you to reconsider, happyfeet. Palin just isn’t that dirty and obscene.

    I’m not claiming she isn’t perfect. I realize she isn’t perfect, she practices a political showbiz shtick, and endorsed you-know-who. Ultimately, she is not at all like Mccain, which is why he picked her. They are ‘mavericky’ in entirely different ways.

    I do hope someone better than Palin wins the nomination. Someone with her attitude on reform, but with enough experience that I am more comfortable with them in this tremendous responsibility.

    that’s not your concern… you think this is a nasty stain on America. I don’t really grok this one, and think Palin’s pretty much what America is about.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  71. I’d vote for Palin but I’d campaign for Christie/Ryan.

    Thick&Thin for Prez!

    PC14 (4a4ed3)

  72. Daniels is a very competant administrator, and if he were a Dem, he would be a media star (as long as it didn’t diminish the luster of the tin-plate at 1600-PA).
    I would, as things stand now, have no heartburn supporting Mitch Daniels for President.

    And, feets, if you don’t participate, you have no justifiable right to carp about the outcome – but, that’s never stopped you before, has it?

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)

  73. nope I will carp not unlike a mofo

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  74. I’m gonna practice for 2012 by sitting out my first election ever in 2010.

    Happyfeet, while I disagree with you about almost everything in politics, I urge you not to do this.

    Sitting out an election is, IMO, abdicating your responsibility as a citizen. This is our country; our government is our creature; declining to take part in the mechanism we have to control that creature and make it serve our will is abandoning our duty to ourselves and to each other.

    Too many people do that as it is.

    Please don’t join them.

    aphrael (73ebe9)

  75. That’s a fair point, Dustin, but our mad mogwai, has gone above and beyond in his insinuations, kind of Sully in a ten gallon hat, there is no reaching
    him

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  76. why don’t we just get Mr. Daniels where he needs to be and then everyone can go vote without sullying themselves and bringing dishonour to their families

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  77. “Thick&Thin for Prez!

    Comment by PC14 ”

    So awesome.

    “nope I will carp not unlike a mofo

    Comment by happyfeet —”

    You’re a very funny guy, but perhaps you should eat waffles the morning you let Obama go about his business with your consent. It just feels more right.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  78. It’s like Mal Reynolds doing gangster rap,

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  79. good waffles are surprisingly hard to find in the Valley… Viv’s has waffles I guess… but these particular thai vegan pancakes are what I’ve been wanting… not sure what time they open though

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  80. http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2010/10/sarah-palin-201010?currentPage=all

    Yes from Vanity Fair but an interesting read all the same.

    VOR2 (c9795e)

  81. I handle the lack of good waffles by making them myself. My husband and I have an every-other-month waffle brunch for our friends. :)

    aphrael (73ebe9)

  82. When both Ben Smith and Dave Weigel, paidup members of the Journolist cast doubt, on the premise of this
    article, it’s time to pack it in

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  83. Perhaps feets, you should convert to Islam, where you can directly deal with dishonor to your family?

    But, I would remind you of the words of General Napier, on the practice of Sati –

    You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)

  84. vegan pancakes?

    Am I bad person for taking some pleasure in the notion that they will suck?

    My pumpkin pancakes would be better. I’ll send some dry mix to happyfeet if Palin wins.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  85. Dustin: I have a friend with a serious milk allergy, which forces me to make a batch of waffles that have no milk or butter.

    They’re … ok. Not great. I can’t get them to be quite fluffy enough.

    aphrael (73ebe9)

  86. But, enough of this, we have (what?) 62-days to the Mid-Terms, when we can begin the restoration of the country to a Federal Republic, built upon the principles denoted in the Declaration of Independence, and limited by the enumerated powers of the Constitution.
    It is time to knuckle-down, and get busy…
    and now to check my mail.

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)

  87. Try some egg-white.

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)

  88. On second thought, happyfeet getting a package of powder from a Palin fanboy might not be the best plan I’ve ever had.

    but the TSA would be cool with it.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  89. If people don’t want to vote in an election because they can’t find a candidate that shares absolutely 100% of their beliefs then let them. I wouldn’t expend any energy trying to convince them to get over themselves and compromise. I have never fully agreed with a candidate for whom I have voted, but I understand that is the way it goes in democracy.

    As for Gov. Palin, she should continue to be a king-maker through 2012 and focus on her Mama Grizzlies and her Rouge Candidates. She’ll only by 48 in 2012, and I think that is too young to be seriously considered as the first female President. That may not be fair, but I think our first woman President will be a bit older (late 50s at least) and more experienced.

    JVW (eccfd6)

  90. for some reason these thai vegan ones are really really wonderful and I know from pancakes

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  91. Vegan burgers, like soy yes, now pancakes that seems wrong in all sorts of ways

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  92. Bolton/Palin 2012

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  93. with our new foreign policy simply stated as thus:

    Oderint Dum Metuant.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  94. Jon Huntsman Jr. He’s serving his country halfway across the globe and biding his time.

    Obama will be such poison by then and under such attack within his own party that he will choose not to run in 2012.

    elissa (6ff80d)

  95. I am out of the mainstream. I think Palin is both a good candidate for president and would be a good president. (Not that I will vote for her or anyone else as per my screen name.) The indictment of her is what “she is inexperienced”? True but in her experience she has focused on eliminating the ruling class and its entrenched corruption in Alaska. She is further indicted because she is not a graduate of a top university. I see that as a feature not a bug. Truman, Eisenhower, Reagan, and even Nixon were not Ivy league graduates. Clinton, Obama, Bush one and Bush two ivy league graduates all. I think that we can conclude that earning an Ivy league education in the latter half of the 20th century is a leading indicator of poor performance as a president.

    NotaYank (0619d0)

  96. I’d vote for Palin in a heartbeat if it was her vs. Obama.

    But I so, so so so so so hope that she has not a chance at passing the Primary.

    G (ce0c1b)

  97. Man, I’ll vote for anyone who isn’t Roosevelt, LBJ, Carter, Clinton, Obama.

    Not to mention John Calhoun, Jefferson Davis, Jack Kennedy, Grover Cleveland, Woodrow Wilson, Andrew Jackson, etc.

    Even the worst Republican president (Theodore Roosevelt would probably be my choice) is better than any Slaveowner/let’s round all the Nips up and put ’em in concentration camps/Jim Crow-o-crat that ever drew breath.

    Dave Surls (72ced7)

  98. Remember, this is the Journ-o-list (whatever it’s called now) tactic to screw with the party’s motivation to win big in November.

    Expect to see tons of this kind of speculation heading into 2010, making a lot of people feel alienated from eachother. Palin fans and Daniels fans and Ryan fans and even Romney fans basically are on the same page and have great reason to be motivated and even a bit optimistic. We can eat eachother alive in the next primary season.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  99. Those who think Palin does not have much of a chance to win either the nomination or the Presidency just have not been paying attenton. Her whole poliical career she has been underestimated. Patterico thinks who ever the GOP runs will lose. To Obama? You are kidding, right? I must start gathering crows. I will need a big one for Patterico. Bon appitit.

    Zelsdorf Ragshaft III (2316a5)

  100. And, I fear, the latter is too successful to eradicate the public perception of Palin as an attractive, stupid, unserious person not ready to be President. She was, by far, more qualified to be President (even though she was only running for Vice) than Obama was in 2008. And they knew it. This is just one of the reasons am glad to see the MSM in decline.

    I agree that she was vastly more qualified than THE ONE – and i agree that the media made a big effort to destroy her credibility.

    However, she is effectively tainted as someone who is not and will not be ready for the presidency (Quitting as governer did not help matters). The media let THE ONE off very light in not exposing his lack of qualifications for the presidency.

    I would suggest Tim Pawlenty who has done a good job controlling the Minn democratic congress

    Joe (aae852)

  101. Count me as one of those utterly convinced Obama will not run in 2012. He was clearly blindsided both during and after the campaign by all the criticism (from both sides), hence our noticing his whiny streak. And though he projects a cool demeanor he is IMO a very angry man with clear passive aggressive issues and is besides a classic narcissist and therefore does not take criticism well.

    Plus look at his daily schedule for goodness’ sake, and compare it with Bush’s. I think he wants to have been president at this point and bask in all the accolades (and vacations and speeches and attention and golf games) it will afford him.

    Actually do the work? “Continue to serve” his country? Hah. When did he start?

    no one you know (196ed7)

  102. “Quitting as governer did not help matters”

    Seems to me like we have a president right now who quit his last job. Like Palin, he was an elected official who quit before his term of office was over.

    Funny, how the media hasn’t glommed onto that one.

    As a matter of fact, that’s pretty much been totally ignored.

    Dave Surls (72ced7)

  103. Come on Patterico, since when was the Daily Dog Trainer a “major newspaper”?

    Mike Myers (3c9845)

  104. According to Wikipedia, sourced to the Audit Bureau of Circulation, the LAT has the fourth largest circulation of any newspaper in the US, behind the WSJ, USA Today, and the NYT.

    I think that qualifies it as a ‘major newspaper’.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  105. Sure, aphrael, try to introduce facts into the discussion … sheesh.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  106. Sure, they print and circulate that many copies, but does anyone sentient read it?

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)

  107. i’m just as frustrated with my friends on the left who are threatening to sit out this election because they’re so pissed off that they haven’t gotten (single payer / cap + trade / closure of guantanamo / pullout of iraq & afghanistan / dadt repeal) that they want to teach the democrats a lesson.

    Comment by aphrael

    I think we are getting a pretty good taste of the left’s agenda and that is what is driving polls. Most, but not all, of the people pushing single payer know nothing about health care, nothing at all. That’s not to say many aren’t doctors. I was at Dartmouth the fall that the Republicans took Congress and Hillary’s plan failed.

    I could spend an hour talking about why academic physicians, who have never had to be in clinic every day, were upset. They really don’t know what it means to provide mass care. We actually had a pretty good system for the poor in 1965 when Medicaid killed the county hospitals and clinics.

    Long story. I have some of it at my blog.

    Mike K (d6b02c)

  108. Mike…good post over at Instapundit!
    Back in the day of the Double-Nickel, someone once said (probably much more than once) that if there was a law that you wanted to get rid of, the way to do it was to enforce it religiously, until the voters got so sick of it, that the legislature would be forced to rescind it under penalty of extreme electoral pain.
    We’ve got their attention, now it is time to truly get the Federal Government out of people’s everyday lives.

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)

  109. Tim Pawlenty does not have the EXPERIENCE that Sarah Palin brings to the job of being the president of AMERICA. Ask yourself has Tim Pawlenty ever gone ROGUE? I think if you are honest you will have to say NO. Sarah Palin has gone not just ROGUE but also MAVERICK, sometimes even at the same time. How many bestselling books has “T-Paw” writed? I bet you can’t even name ONE, which is how many Sarah Palin already has out under her name plus more to come! For 2012 we need someone with the COMMONSENSE CONSERVATISM not someone trapped in a dead-end governor job.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  110. I’ve been saying for many months here that Christie/Ryan would be a killer ticket, but Daniels and Pawlenty would be awesome as well. All are plain – spoken, mature adult who not only know how to balance budgets, but also know how to deal with their most strident of adversaries.

    I don’t like Romney, you’ve got to be kidding me on Huckster, Jindal is too religiony for most folks in the center.

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  111. feets has joined epwj in “The Army of Two”!

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)

  112. I think it will be Romney. Not because I’m in love with the guy, or his positions, but because we’re not going to get a Reagan in the WH. I’ll settle for majorities in the house and senate, and a mediocre conservative in the big job.

    Let’s not make the perfect the enemy of the good.

    Frank Drebbin (8096f2)

  113. Comment by happyfeet — 9/1/2010 @ 12:16 pm

    Now see? There. Don’t you feel better? Nice to see you supporting Palin after fighting it all this time. (Just gently yankin yer chain happyfeet; carry on :) )

    no one you know (196ed7)

  114. If it’s Romney, I will be pinching my nose again. Honestly, I’m surprised he’s considered a contender. He had a much better position in 2008 (pre healthcare reform), and had $40,000,000 against a nearly broke candidate Mccain, and lost.

    I could bash the poor guy’s record, but there’s time enough for it in 2012. He and Huck do not seem to be contenders to me.

    Happyfeet, you sound like you’ll quit the entire enterprise of democracy over a drop of a hat. Palin quit under less silly terms.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  115. I kind of like Patterico’s idea of sacrificing Palin in 2012, since Barcky will win again anyway.

    JD (803412)

  116. One huge, huge issue is unifying the party. Palin will not bail on the GOP for a third party, but I get a feeling someone will.

    All those ‘electability’ types will support Palin in the general. But the party could be really strained if we wind up with someone like Mccain again.

    JD and Dmac are naming examples of people who would not feel too much (any?) of this strain, because they are bona fide conservatives. But this really hurts the general election prospects of the squishes. Some poll said 1 in 3 Republicans think a third party bid should occur if Palin isn’t the nominee. That’s stupid, but it’s how they feel.

    So when Happyfeet notes he can’t vote for Palin, I guess he’s suggesting the GOP better pick someone who doesn’t get a lot of that reaction. Palin is ironically a good choice, then.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  117. Not to shill any harder (I honestly do prefer Ryan and Christie, on a gut level), but Palin is considered stronger on national security (according to polls). If something major occurs between now and 2012 in that arena, that will change the landscape. People evaluate economic leaders differently from how the evaluate foreign policy leaders.

    I don’t think the economy is going to be any less an issue in 2012, but if it is, that will also change the landscape.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  118. I kind of like Patterico’s idea of sacrificing Palin in 2012, since Barcky will win again anyway.

    This is similar to the arguments I heard during Carter’s mid – term; the country decided it couldn’t afford another four years of disaster and the GOP was desperate enough to turn to the guy they should’ve nominated years earlier. Don’t give in to the “inevitable” argument, JD – Captain Awesome and his quislings in teh MSM are counting on it.

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  119. JD, a year ago I would have agreed that Obama would be reelected in 2012. But I really underestimated the incompetence level that he’d demonstrate. I thought his ideology wrong and dangerous but I underestimated the low level of competence of both him and his advisors.

    Now, I think he’s very vulnerable in 2012. I’m just not really seeing who will rise up to defeat him.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  120. I generally vote Libertarian, partly because I loathe the two-party duopoly and its stranglehold on power (not to mention the laws they’ve passed ensuring their eternal dominance), but if Palin were nominated for POTUS, I might break that rule, just to spite the Palinophobes.

    I got…really angry…about the way she was treated, both by the lockstepping Mainstream Media, who can’t understand that the Civil Rights Movement is history (and won, already) and by the libtards in Alaska, who drove her from office by exploiting a quirk in Alaskan law.

    So she doesn’t believe in abortion, while I revere it? So what? In this book I was reading about Nixon in retirement, RMN (who, for all his faults, knew where his towel was in terms of what was and was not possible in American politics) said that if abortion hadn’t been banned under Reagan, it wasn’t gonna be banned, and that was an end on’t.

    So she thinks the world is 6000 years old? BFD! I’m not hiring her as a science teacher, and AFAIK she can at least make a speech without a teleprompter, unlike certain Presidents of the United States I could name.

    Technomad (e2c0f2)

  121. Dmac writes:

    “…Jindal is too religiony for most folks in the center….”

    And this is a good example of what I was writing about. The current President sat in a church for two decades that was led by a nutcase who said that race was everything, that the US government had created HIV to kill blacks, and so forth.

    No one seemed to care. They voted for him anyway.

    And that is what the Left is counting on, and what the Right usually does: hold their own candidates to standards that the Left does not.

    Again: four more years of BHO does what? The same as McCain would have done? Really? But you see, folks who are all wrapped up in perfection on the Right have to believe that. They cannot know what anyone of the Right will do right now. We know what the President and his happy travelers are doing.

    Like Patterico said: if you sit out the election, you shouldn’t get to complain. Vote.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  122. “So she thinks the world is 6000 years old?”

    Does she? I haven’t seen a link to this and thought it was more of the ‘I can see Russia from my house’ Matt Damon style fabrication.

    Just sayin’. You’re right… a lot of people support Palin to spite some sorry SOBs. I don’t find this to qualify her for authority, but I respect that it’s a huge force in perhaps 1 in 3 Republicans. It’s going to be a big dang deal.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  123. Great point, Eric Blair.

    Sadly, JD’s cynicism is well founded. The right doesn’t get nearly as much slack, I guess because their religiosity is more credible, or less cool than a slick politician playing the game.

    How many times has the left assured eachother that Obama’s lying about his views on gay marriage or health care or God? It’s amazing they don’t take a second to realize they can’t trust him either.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  124. No there is no evidence for that, one of the Trig truther netrooters named Phil Munger, came up with
    the 6,000 year old line, part of the Wasilla project
    organized by Soros elements

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  125. If Palin runs, she should NOT announce until after the midterms, as it would risk mitigating the size of a GOP win. The GOP has a do-or-die moment this November, and if Palin is out front as a candidate, voters might not come on as strong as they have to.

    My feeling is Obama stands a high chance of winning re-election no matter who he faces; the best case may be a second Obama term but saddled with a strong conservative Congress to keep him in check. The GOP must make strong inroads in Congress; the White House is just gravy.

    I’d trust Palin as pres on domestic issues but not on foreign policy. She’s not stupid as people claim, but she is unsophisticated, and that’s different. Forgivable at home but not abroad. We can’t afford a third president in a row who’s a fool on foreign policy.

    Christie/Palin is my choice, with a Romney/Ryan/Daniels/Pawlenty cabinet. Plus Thaddeus McCotter in the mix!

    Let Sarah run loose on reform and domestic issues, and let Christie the Big Man do the talking with foreigners.

    d. in c. (f89659)

  126. In spite of all of the negatives,
    she hasn’t gone away
    she’s maybe even more influential now than a year ago
    the people of Alaska apparently have enough faith in her, leaving the governorship or not, to defeat a well funded incumbent with a novice on her backing

    the image the media portrays is that she can’t be taken seriously, but it was noted in a previous thread that the Russians have nicknamed her “the huntress” because of her toughness in negotiating over energy deals, etc.

    Here’s a question for you, what percentage of Americans would rather see her in charge when a major conflict arises than Obama? What percentage state by state predicting an electoral vote total?

    I’m not sure if I want her to run or not, but we could do much worse.

    Patterico, if you think the one will be reelected no matter what, how do you go to sleep at night, or get up in the morning? (Or do you have a self-sufficient compound hidden somewhere in a valley in New Zealand?)

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  127. Comment by d. in c. — 9/1/2010 @ 1:46 pm

    How many foreign governments has Christie dealt with?
    Palin, as Gov of AK, has successfully negotiated with both the Canadian and Russian Governments over issues vital to her State.

    And, if she needs to be “sophisticated”, one can always call Emily Post (or whomever).

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)

  128. “How many foreign governments has Christie dealt with?”

    Well, the New Jersey teachers unions for starters. Personally I’d find Putin much easier.

    Palin’s dealt with Canadians; Christie has dealt with space aliens.

    d. in c. (f89659)

  129. Hey, those Canucks are tough. But nothing a Hockey-Mom can’t handle.

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)

  130. You need to watch Christie’s many vids of his incredibly nasty encounters with teacher union goons and an unbelievably hostile press (at first) – not to mention a sizable electorate that was skeptical of anything he said during his first months. He actually wins people over to his side through the use of persuasion, something that Palin cannot do even if she tried. Palin’s constituency is an organic one, while Christie’s is mostly self – made. Think about it – he’s a pragmatic conservative in New Farking Jersey.

    That said, I’d still go for a Christie/Palin ticket, but I don’t see Palin going that route again. It’s either the whole enchilada or nada.

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  131. Yeah, Dmac, Christie is rare and quite amazing.

    I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say Palin cannot win people over with persuasion. But leaving that aside, I am pretty confident that Christie, despite his lack of Palin’s foreign policy experience (and impressive results) would be a smart national security leader.

    I don’t know for sure, but that’s my gut on him. Christie is great.

    And he’s not going to run, I bet. If he does, that’ll be good.

    Anyway, Palin polls much stronger than the competition on national security. That was my point. Is there a chance of something happening that makes this America’s priority? I’d say yes.

    And when Palin was in Christie’s shoes, remember that she had a similar success persuading a lot of people to support her ideas. I believe she was the most popular governor in America before the derangement really got under way (and still is popular). This idea that she is unable to convey an argument is incorrect, IMO.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  132. How do you think she pushed the AGIA pipeline, the ACES tax reform, and the ethics bill, magic, Now
    firing Schundler, who by my lights was a Governor
    that New Jersey sorely missed in the 90s, without
    actually discovering why data from the Corzine administration had been left out of a ‘Race to the Top” application, seems impulsive to me, as was
    immediately downplaying the concerns of the Ground
    Zero protesters, but that’a just me.

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  133. “I don’t see Palin going that route again.”

    Maybe, but I think it depends on circumstances. One of Palin’s great strengths is that she’s a real honest-to-God patriot. I think if she became convinced that the most effective way to serve the nation was as VP instead of prex, she’d put duty before ego. But she’d have to really believe that, and events will make it clear or unclear depending how things break.

    d. in c. (a30317)

  134. I believe that if there is any chance of a third party saving Obama (and there won’t be if Palin is the nominee), that Palin would be asked and accept the VP slot again.

    It really isn’t such a bad move, unless it’s in support of someone like a Romney. However, whoever needs Palin as VP has to beat her in the primary (and yeah, she’s running).

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  135. Palin started with nothing, no money money to speak of, and through sheer force of will has placed herself in a position to consider a run for president.

    Nope. Support for her on the right is entirely due to attacks on her from the left. And that is a very poor basis to support somebody.

    The fact that the left acted disgustingly towards her does not transform her into a conservative hero. At least, it should not.

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  136. How many foreign governments has Christie dealt with?
    Palin, as Gov of AK, has successfully negotiated with both the Canadian and Russian Governments over issues vital to her State.

    If that’s not sarcasm, its cringe-worthy.

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  137. So she doesn’t believe in abortion, while I revere it? So what? In this book I was reading about Nixon in retirement, RMN (who, for all his faults, knew where his towel was in terms of what was and was not possible in American politics) said that if abortion hadn’t been banned under Reagan, it wasn’t gonna be banned, and that was an end on’t.

    I had not realized that Reagan, or any President, possessed the power to “ban” abortion. Or to ban anything else, for that matter.

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  138. “Support for her on the right is entirely due to attacks on her from the left.”

    And yet that’s not why I support her. I like her actual accomplishments in office and her policy statements on her facebook page.

    Now, there’s no doubt a lot of people like her because the left and the beltway and even a smattering of conservatives really, really hate her. They want to repudiate the kind of behavior they saw against Palin. It doesn’t mean Palin’s a good or bad leader. It’s not logical, but it is the way the world works.

    Subotai is wrong, though to dismiss the huge support of Palin as completely irrational. She seriously cleaned house, and has continued to. She has laid waste to many RINOs.

    Subotai, what’s your take on Christie?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  139. How many foreign governments has Christie dealt with?
    Palin, as Gov of AK, has successfully negotiated with both the Canadian and Russian Governments over issues vital to her State.

    If that’s not sarcasm, its cringe-worthy.

    Comment by Subotai

    OK, you’re coming across as a nut. She did negotiate with other governments on huge and complicated deals, and they worked out very well for her state. She also did a great job with the oil companies.

    Cringe worthy? Why? We’re talking about a comparison to negotiations with a teacher’s union. It’s a perfectly sane and valid reaction.

    Why do you have such a problem with Palin? you seem to think her supporters are all stunted morons, but that’s not a reason to dislike her. She’s a fiscal conservative, great on national security, critical of entitlement bloat, and she has stood with Gov Brewer.

    She has a very light resume, compared to the massive responsibility of the White House, but why do you actively oppose her, as though she is ideologically opposed to you?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  140. She has laid waste to many RINOs.

    Like with her support for McCain, the arch-RINO?

    what’s your take on Christie?

    I like what I’ve seen so far.

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  141. OK, at least we agree on Christie.

    Mccain I didn’t agree with her either, and yet your point obviously isn’t a good answer to my point, since it is true that Palin has laid waste to many RINOs. Just not that one.

    Palin is no savior. She’s a politician. She didn’t oppose Mccain because that sort of loyalty is too important to someone building a coalition with other leaders. She endorsed him for obvious reasons that seem cynical and unfortunate to me, but come on… you can’t really pretend that’s not understandable, can you?

    Palin’s done a huge favor to you, beyond Mccain, in helping shape a much better Senate. I don’t think you have to support her for Pres, not by any means… but I think she’s the conservative’s ally. and I think you should reconsider the way you characterize her supporters.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  142. One of Palin’s great strengths is that she’s a real honest-to-God patriot.

    The great majority of people in politics are honest-to-God patriots. Even Obama. It’s just that they are patriotic to different views of what America is and should be.

    Palin seems to be Dubya in a skirt. We’ve already tried that and know it does not work.

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  143. “Palin seems to be Dubya in a skirt.”

    really? based on what, exactly?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  144. OK, you’re coming across as a nut.

    And you’re coming across as a parody of the the sort of the people the left makes fun of.

    Why do you have such a problem with Palin?

    Because she’s a RINO, a Bush clone, an example of everything wrong with the Republican Party.

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  145. Supporting McCain in his bid for re-election was the right thing to do (if nothing else, from personal loyalty for his selection of her as VP), as a sop to the establishment GOP, to demonstrate that, even though there were severe issues from the campaign, they were with his staffers, and not with him.
    And, since the people (voters) of AZ have overwhelmingly renominated him for his Senate seat, it would seem that it was the politically right thing to do.
    If anyone has an issue with that, they need to take it up with the people of AZ, who will return John McCain to the Senate on Nov-2.

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)

  146. And you’re coming across as a parody of the the sort of the people the left makes fun of.

    What does this even mean?

    You consistently refuse to get to the heart of your points, and it’s extremely annoying. You always have some vague reason to bash just about everybody, but you never have the balls to state your case.

    Why is Palin a RINO? Why is she like Bush? Just because, I guess.

    All her supporters are idiots who have no good logic to their views. When I prove that’s not true, you just ignore it.

    When you skate around your real argument, it makes you come across really kooky. I still don’t know if you think the USA should eliminate immigration to people who aren’t White and Christian, because you kept beating around the bush.

    I think the real reason this comes across to me as nutty is that you seem to be filtering yourself… and why would you do that?

    How is Palin a Bush clone? Apparently you have a lot of problems with Bush that Chris Christie does not demonstrate but Palin absolutely and obviously does. What are these traits?

    Be more specific, please.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  147. Palin’s done a huge favor to you, beyond Mccain, in helping shape a much better Senate.

    I really don’t see that.

    She didn’t oppose Mccain because that sort of loyalty is too important to someone building a coalition with other leaders.

    Why are you so reluctant to accept the obvious answer, the one she keeps giving you – that she supported McCain because she is on the same page as he is?

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  148. So, Subotai, there is an easy way for you to actually … you know … support your claim.

    Point to something in Palin’s speeches that is in itself “RINO”, other than her endorsement of the person who actually picked her to run on his presidential ticket.

    Go on, if you are right, it should not be hard.

    Otherwise, you are indeed sounding like a nut who has it in for her just because she endorsed/campaigned for McCain.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  149. Palin seems to be very strong on immigration, given her stand with Brewer. She is very strong on spending and reform, and while she supports people she knows at times, she isn’t really a crony nepotism type. Her political picks make a lot of sense to me, particularly in these tough primary battles.

    She’s much more clear on domestic spending than Bush was, in my opinion.

    So, at least to me, parody of something or other, she doesn’t have the more glaring flaws I’d have with Bush.

    A Dubya who secured the border, spent a lot less, and didn’t hire morons all the time? Yeah, I’m on board with that. I’m totally on board with that.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  150. What does this even mean?

    It means that you are describing Plain as a foreign policy whiz based on her being governor of Alaska for two years.

    You consistently refuse to get to the heart of your points, and it’s extremely annoying.

    Perhaps the problem lies in your reading comprehension, because my writing is crystal clear. I don’t like Palin because she’s a RINO, a lefty Republican. How is that in any way unclear to you?

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  151. “It’s just that they are patriotic to different views…”

    But once the views diverge sufficiently, or become more loyal to “should be” than to “is” or “has been”, the idea that Persons X or Y are still “patriots” becomes attenuated, if not negated. Were Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee patriots? They just had different views about America, right?

    For instance I think many of the things Obama is loyal to are more congruent to an imaginary America, and I find that troubling. And in practical terms, because he is so wedded to his ideology, he’s the sort of guy who’d try and fix a toaster with a hockey stick. That’s not patriotism, it’s stubborn and weird.

    d. in c. (a30317)

  152. He’s asking for specific cases to prove your point about how she’s a RINO – why is that so hard for you to understand? Come up with some examples of how she’s a “lefty Republican,” other than supporting the guy who launched her into national prominence.

    that she supported McCain because she is on the same page as he is?

    Examples?

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  153. I don’t like Palin because she’s a RINO, a lefty Republican. How is that in any way unclear to you?

    Comment by Subotai —

    Since she doesn’t appear to be a RINO or a lefty, for the many specific policy reasons I’ve already listed, I do not understand what you base that on.

    It seems like you base it on the Mccain endorsement, and that’s it. If that’s the case, you failed to back up your assertion. You would have been more comprehensible to me to simply say ‘I hate her because she endorsed Mccain, and that’s that’.

    It means that you are describing Plain as a foreign policy whiz based on her being governor of Alaska for two years.

    Maybe you’re the one who needs reading comprehension improvement, since I have not said what you are claiming I said. This isn’t the first time you’ve exaggerated my POV, but I guess you are just getting carried away. Anyhow, I do not think Palin is a particular ‘whiz’ at foreign policy. I note she has some experience and some good results. It’s better than many, and yet she’s not an expert.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  154. Subotai, please don’t move yourself into the “EPWJ” column.

    Unless that’s your purpose.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  155. I think the real reason this comes across to me as nutty is that you seem to be filtering yourself… and why would you do that?

    Your inability to understand written English does not translate into my “filtering” myself.

    Here’s a crazy idea, Dustin- how about you stop assuming that what I’m “really” saying is different from what I’m actually saying? That what I want to say is different from what I do say?

    That was pathetic of you on the last thread where you made that charge, and its not looking any more brilliant here.

    I still don’t know if you think the USA should eliminate immigration to people who aren’t White and Christian

    Because you’re an illiterate imbecile. Leaving aside the fact that your words above are incoherent gibberish (“the USA should eliminate immigration to people who aren’t White and Christian”? WTF does that even mean?) I answered your question many, many times on the last thread. And I told you on that thread that I would no longer indulge you by continuing to answer it over and over again.

    All her supporters are idiots who have no good logic to their views. When I prove that’s not true, you just ignore it.

    Leaving aside the awkward fact that I never actually claimed that “all her supporters are idiots” ( I notice that this sort of base stealing is a staple of your annoying arguing technique) I don’t recall you “proving” anything. Which leaves me with precious little to ignore.

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  156. What’s unfortunate about the subotai’s out there is that they insist on making personal attacks instead of arguments. Palin is [insert slur]. These same people claim anyone who defends Palin is some kind of joke.

    Palin wouldn’t need the nonstop defense if her detractors could criticize her without making stuff up.

    Palin isn’t a RINO. We all know that. Even Subotai probably knows it. She’s inexperienced, gaffe prone, and has a ton of baggage. But she is a conservative. She actually had several years of experience that prove this.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  157. once the views diverge sufficiently, or become more loyal to “should be” than to “is” or “has been”, the idea that Persons X or Y are still “patriots” becomes attenuated, if not negated. Were Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee patriots? They just had different views about America, right?

    Right. What’s your point again?

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  158. “That was pathetic of you on the last thread where you made that charge, and its not looking any more brilliant here.”

    Link, please?

    I believe I recall what you’re referring to, and I was making a very reasonable analysis of your views, but you claims I was wrong and I said I stand corrected and asked you to clarify.

    I don’t mind that you don’t agree with me… but it’s not clear at all what is the real basis for your views. And this isn’t just Palin… you often get into long long long drawn out discussions about how people’s assumptions about what you think are all wrong and so, so horrible, but you refuse to clarify.

    Did you really think America should be comprised of White Christians? It was hard to understand you before.

    What specifically makes Palin a RINO?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  159. Subotai said:

    “Support for [Palin] on the right is entirely due to attacks on her from the left. And that is a very poor basis to support somebody. ”

    I call this an attack on her supporters and their intelligence, as not having any logical basis for their support, and point out that they are not all idiots. Subotai replies

    and then “Leaving aside the awkward fact that I never actually claimed that “all her supporters are idiots”

    How slimy, Subotai. You attacked her supporters for not having any rational reason to support her. You’re playing around again because you just can’t back up your assertions. I have obviously proven that you were wrong in your assertion, bud, since I was stating my basis for supporting her on policy grounds that have nothing to do with attacks made on Palin. I am therefore proof that your claim was in error.

    But you just go on, insisting everyone has mischaracterized you.

    Palin is ‘everything that is wrong with the GOP’.

    That’s what you said. Back it up with some evidence, instead of insulting Palin with made up crap.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  160. I believe I recall what you’re referring to, and I was making a very reasonable analysis of your views

    And I am making a very sensible analysis of your views when I describe them as foolish and dishonest. Don’t you like how that works?

    Why don’t you drop this silly fantasy you have, that you are in a position to characterize the “reasonableness” of both your comments and of mine, and start debating like a grown-up for a change.


    I don’t mind that you don’t agree with me…

    For a person who does not mind, you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time impugning my character, honesty, and rationality. I’d hate to think of what you would say if you really did mind what I say.

    you often get into long long long drawn out discussions about how people’s assumptions about what you think are all wrong and so, so horrible, but you refuse to clarify.

    Your inability to comprehend short and coherent sentences written in grammatically correct English is an interesting problem, but not one which I feel compelled to spend a lot of time trying to resolve.

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  161. I have obviously proven that you were wrong in your assertion, bud

    You “have obviously proven” that I was “wrong” in my assertion?

    Your ignorance is exceeded only by your overweening arrogance.

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  162. Subotai, that’s it?

    Just so many words to say I’m stupid?

    I challenged several of your claims, outright disproved one, and asked you for clarification.

    But your reaction is that I just can’t comprehend you?

    OK. Why in the world are you in a discussion thread, though? Maybe you should go find a ‘spit out smears’ thread.

    It’s so strange that you have such a hostile reaction to people just asking you what in the hell you’re basing your claims on. As I’ve said, this is a constant problem with you.

    Last thread we were in, you demanded I explain how Miller is a better candidate than Hayworth (what a shock, you cannot get over that dud). I made several clear explanations of exactly what I think about that, and you ignored them.

    Do you know why? Because I was there to discuss. What are you here for?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  163. Did you really think America should be comprised of White Christians? It was hard to understand you before.

    Have you ever considered the possibility that you’re just not that bright?

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  164. You “have obviously proven” that I was “wrong” in my assertion?

    Your ignorance is exceeded only by your overweening arrogance.

    Comment by Subotai

    No, I’m not arrogant or ignorant, at least on this issue. You said that Palin supporters ‘entirely’ base their support on the insults from the left.

    I quoted you. Did you not notice that the words inside ” and ” were your words? Yeah, you said that. That’s what I refuted. And I provably did. I and several other commenters have listed reasons to support her that prove you’re wrong.

    See, you’re being extremely rude, for no good reason. Are you here in good faith? Do you understand what that means?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  165. OK, that’s enough for me. Subotai is sadly now in the same column as EPWJ.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  166. Did you really think America should be comprised of White Christians? It was hard to understand you before. (that’s my comment, requoted)

    Have you ever considered the possibility that you’re just not that bright?

    Comment by Subotai —

    Um, I wasn’t even the only person asking you for clarification on this. You replied, then and now, by refusing to answer the question and insulting whoever asked it.

    What’s up with that?

    Answer the question. It’s so easy.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  167. Just so many words to say I’m stupid?

    I challenged several of your claims, outright disproved one, and asked you for clarification.

    Which thread are you talking about now?

    your reaction is that I just can’t comprehend you?

    You seem determined to prove that point every time our paths cross.

    It’s so strange that you have such a hostile reaction to people just asking you what in the hell you’re basing your claims on. As I’ve said, this is a constant problem with you.

    Seems to me that the “constant problem” is inside you. Anytime I say anything, you are there pretending to be judge, jury and executioner of the worth of my comments.

    Perhaps we’d get along better if you could lose your delusions of grandeur and accept the fact you you are just another commenter here, same as me, with no special power to sit in judgment on other peoples opinions.

    Back on topic – do you think McCain is a RINO?

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  168. “Back on topic – do you think McCain is a RINO?

    Comment by Subotai ”

    Absolutely.

    No doubt about it.

    I’m not special… you’re right. I don’t recall implying I’m special. I do think you’re being really hostile, and I think that’s something that’s causing problems around here. Insofar as I’m just another commenter, I would prefer folks not be dicks if they can help it.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  169. Um, I wasn’t even the only person asking you for clarification on this.

    Arp was there and seemed perfectly capable of understanding my words, which makes me skeptical that they appeared to you as some inscrutable code.

    No, I did not say the things which you wanted me to say, the things which you, possessed of your mind reading powers, were convinced I really thought. And there was no thing which I actually could say which would ever alter you convictions, because you know.

    You are what you hate, Dustin.

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  170. I do think you’re being really hostile

    Jaysus, man, do you possess even one single iota of self-awareness? There are neutron stars which aspire to your level of density. You and your merry men have called me every name in the book, and you think that I’m really hostile?

    After you get a clue, please get a spine.

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  171. Dude, I don’t know you very well, aside from your hostility and your hatred of Mccain, and what I perceive to be some very, very strange views on the Unamerican-ness of people who are not white or Christian.

    When I ask you for clarification, you could just answer me. Instead, you tell me I ‘am what I hate’. OK? I don’t even care that you answer the question. You’re off the hook. Clearly the answer is so awful that you can’t bear to share it.

    I wasn’t trying to read your mind, subotai, I was ASKING YOU what was in your mind. It’s so strange to insist I’m an arrogant mind reader when I directly asked you a question instead of asserting your views.

    If a few commenters hadn’t freaked out recently, I wouldn’t be so patient with you. You’re clearly taking advantage of this, so I’m done with you.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  172. Dude, I don’t know you very well, aside from your hostility and your hatred of Mccain

    So what is your opinion of McCain? RINO or not?

    I wasn’t trying to read your mind, subotai, I was ASKING YOU what was in your mind.

    Balls. I told you was was in my mind in considerable detail. But since you see yourself as the Lord High Inquisitor of this blog, you don’t think you should have to be content with that. You’re going to beat the truth out of me which you know is in there.

    If a few commenters hadn’t freaked out recently, I wouldn’t be so patient with you.

    Well, I’m glad that you recently informed me that “I’m not special .. I’m just another commenter”, or I’d think that you were sounding almost comically arrogant.

    Subotai (a6ad7d)

  173. Man, has this ever gotten dull.

    d. in c. (d9926c)

  174. Agreed, D in C.

    I don’t care to repeatedly and endlessly defend Palin. It’s just not interesting to hear another slur and then deny it, ad infinitum.

    And we’ve got *years* of this to look forward to. We basically have the same sort of view of Palin… maybe it’s more interesting for the nuts who think she is a perfect savior (honestly haven’t met any of these guys), and those who think she is everything wrong with the universe.

    But this is what I meant way earlier when I noted that Palin’s impact on a primary will be to suck a lot of oxygen out of other candidate’s efforts. Not really by any device of hers, but because the daily story is going to whatever new or old slur about Palin has to be debunked. It’s going to be hugely polarizing.

    If someone better than Palin is actually running, this is going to be really annoying. Hopefully they have some brilliant way of cutting through this crap.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  175. I say no as well. She did not handle the media well and so needs to spend a few more years digging herself out of that hole. Yes, it was unfair, but she took the bait.

    She serves a better purpose as an inspirational leader, IMHO.

    Comment by Patricia — 9/1/2010 @ 7:58 am

    Patricia, I agree with you. I think the fact that she took the bait is critical. She walked right into the trap revealing a naivete and lack of wariness which was surprising considering the viciousness of politics, and especially because it was the highest office in the land at stake.

    I don’t believe she has the temperament to rise above or ignore the baiting because even now she feels compelled to respond, and even if it’s a snarky smack down or refutation, she is still at some level, taking the bait. She’s still very prickly.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  176. Yeah, it’s a paradox: her loyal base and huge name/image recognition are pluses, but she draws so much hostility that extra hordes of Dems will crawl out of the woodwork just to vote against her. Makes it tricky to call, and my guess is that 2012 will be won on a slim margin (by either side). So these screwy Palin Effects matter, how they break.

    Which is why I think it’s vital for her to wait til after the midterms to declare; after we see the results it’ll be easier to tell what to do. But the GOP really MUST get a stronger purchase on both houses of Congress, othewise all other ships are sunk regardless.

    The MSM attacks on her worry me less and less b/c the MSM is retreating into twilit irrelevance at a simply stunning pace. Their hysteria about Palin will only hasten their doom. Good riddance.

    One thing that cheers me about a possible Palin run is the Iron Law of Presidential Politics: “Bugs Bunny will always defeat Elmer Fudd and/or Yosemite Sam”. Sarah is sounding more and more wike a wascally wabbit every day.

    d. in c. (fc59fb)

  177. insert hostility here

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  178. happyfrum you win
    me over with Beck take and
    then throw it away

    ColonelHaiku (5d380f)

  179. revealing a naivete and lack of wariness which was surprising considering the viciousness of politics
    Comment by Dana

    Being caught and killed in an ambush due to naivete is a shame.
    Being caught in an ambush due to naivete and surviving wins fans.

    The America that is fed up with DC as usual likes the idea of someone whose character is surprised by how dirty others fight, but indeed to be elected the person needs to survive and triumph.

    Here’s how Palin can make the election hers to lose:
    Sometime after the November elections, she needs to get a TV appearance with Couric/Williams/etc. (one of them) where she leaves them wondering what happened. It will need to be a live event (probably) to escape the effects of editing. If she can draw one of them into the scenario and pull it off, in 15 minutes or less she will make all but the nuttiest realize she that “the pitbull knows how to bite, lipstick or not”. If she can do that, doubters will have reason to believe, if she has the opportunity and fails, her supporters have reason to reconsider.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  180. The fake Dem sponsored Tea Party has officially been denied a spot on the Michigan ballot. That’s good. A few of us were discussing it here last week. But this is the unbelievably poorly written and very misleading article about it in Politico. Grrr.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41636.html#comments

    elissa (6ff80d)

  181. couric williams both
    know it’s over for old school
    dinomedia

    ColonelHaiku (5d380f)

  182. Dustin,

    no one’s freaking out – yet another passing judgement given as you are want to do just you and its interesting to see you doing to a guy who disagree’s with me – and give him the same treatment

    Maybe you and JD can explain your love of Democrats and your scorn of Republicans again

    (Okay JD says he doesent love democrats like you do)

    As I expressed many times – you need to stop typing again

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  183. Uh-oh, elissa, we’re boycotting Politico!

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  184. EPWJ, you’ve expressed many times? How droll.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  185. EricPWJohnson,

    You’re a liar with no credibility.

    I guess I could defend myself from another hysterical attack? Does anyone who isn’t already pretty much discredited really think I need to?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  186. Couric gave Palin a hard time,in part because her researcher was so incompetent, and gave Joe Biden, who the Iraqis despise because they do remember he wanted to partition the country, who voted against
    the first pipeline from Alaska, the Contras, who
    proposed one law, VAWA, which the Supreme Court
    found unconstitutional, and another the FISA bill, whose shortcomings were seen on 9/11

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  187. Dana, I know, but this Michigan story barely got any coverage even on the righty sites. This malfeasance which was the subject of an editorial in the Detroit Free Press is a form of election fraud. It needs to be better known and rebutted when the facts are reported wrongly, IMO, no matter who prints the article.

    elissa (6ff80d)

  188. you can call him Ray
    PW but you doesn’t has
    to call him Johnson

    ColonelHaiku (5d380f)

  189. The blogs I’ve been frequenting like Gateway, JOM,others have mentioned it, yes they will cheat,block the candidacy of rivals, that’s how Obama came to power.

    It does get a little tiring, having to correct the same misinpressions over and over again. Because of Hoft and VanderLeun and Dyer, I knew that the Couric and Gibson interviews were ‘incomplete’ i didn’t know the degree of coordination involved until the Journolist to destroy her, in ‘boost phase’ would be the local parlance. Or how Couric had it in for from day one. Now the response is she should have known, hell if the experienced McCain staff didn’t know’of course they did, they through her to the wolves,’ If they do succeed rest assured they will do that to your favorite candidate, truth is no object anymore, there is not even a pretense of fairness

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  190. Being caught in an ambush due to naivete and surviving wins fans.

    That may be so but only for a limited time, then it becomes a lack of shrewd discernment. The idea being to know where the traps are set ahead of time and plan accordingly. Palin still takes it personally and I think that’s something one in her expected position (per the LAT) cannot afford.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  191. Comment by elissa — 9/1/2010 @ 6:47 pm

    I was teasing, elissa…sorry about that.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  192. Palin still takes it personally

    Yeah, I nod at this.

    I think she’s at least trying not to ‘let them see her bleed’. That’s pretty important.

    For some reason Ryan and Christie (in very different ways) handle flack without seeming to take it personally.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  193. How many times is EPWJ going to drop by and moon everyone?

    JD (8ded14)

  194. I dunno, JD, but it was predictable.

    Anyway, Fiorina vs. Boxer debate is on in a few minutes. Ace has a link to the video.

    Gonna be good.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  195. 2012 is too early. The MFM still has sufficient clout and credibility to damage Palin. By 2016, they’ll be dead.

    Richard Aubrey (66c65d)

  196. The Debate is on CSPAN, btw.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  197. There are people apparently in Palin’s inner circle who are saying she loves her life just as it currently is–king-maker, policy influencer, speech giver, motivator. But without any of the responsibilities of governing. She and her family will never forget how they were treated between the terrible, invasive, biased “journalism” they were subjected to, and the costly nuisance lawsuits and investigations in Alaska. I will be shocked if she runs for office again and I don’t want her to, but I love that she is making the liberals go absolutely bonkers and keeping them so off balance. And I think she has helped rally, focus, and embolden the troops on “our” side in a way I had not believed possible.

    elissa (6ff80d)

  198. I liked that clip of Boxer making up an imaginary conversation with Condolezza Rice.

    JD (8ded14)

  199. Fiorina wins the style category. Gray, dull Barbara wears dull gray.

    I think she’s at least trying not to ‘let them see her bleed’. That’s pretty important.

    Maybe. But she seems brittle and she’s not even in a campaign where the knives really come out in full fury. The thoughts of her running and all the ugliness it entails makes me sad for her family. How much should they have to endure and is it worth it?

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  200. Fiorina just ripped Boxer a new one.

    JD (8ded14)

  201. Boxer has never had an actual competitor, has she? Boxer is fundamentally dishonest woman.

    JD (8ded14)

  202. Fiorina was sounding so good on energy until she goofed a bit at the end, but I think Boxer really really looked confused with her terror watch list / gun rights conflation.

    I think Fiorina really got her well by calling her confused. That had to resonate with a lot of viewers.

    And Fiorina’s simple promise to ‘take our government back’ will stick in people’s heads. That’s hard to achieve. Boxer’s terminal speech is flailing.

    I’m heavily biased against Boxer, of course, but this isn’t my bias… Boxer came across as too negative, and I think this really helps bolster Fiorina’s simple promise. Fiorina did not perform as well as I expected, but she ended strong.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  203. From a purely tactic standpoint, I’d prefer that Palin step back and allow others a chance to get into the Oval Office. I say that because there are too many people in America (and the modern industrialized world in general) who are quite squishy about their politics. I’m referring to all those folks who aren’t necessarily of the left yet who voted for Obama and now regret it. Generally, such voters will be less hesitant about taking a chance on a politician — even an idiotic, foolish or sleazy one (Hi, Obama! Hi, Hillary!) — if he or she is of the left.

    Mark (411533)

  204. hey, when did this assault weapons ban Boxer was talking about come into place?

    Boxer seemed to indicate it was the 1980s. Was she high? She came across as dopey and confused.

    These races are much better off these days thanks to Palin. It’s so awesome seeing things unfold across the country. Palin is just one part of the team, though. I hope she thinks about that in 2012, but I also hope the rest of us remember that she’s paid some dues. Doesn’t entitle her to anything, and maybe this really is the best role for her (and would she have any relevance these days if people didn’t think she was going to be a presidential contender?)

    It is amazing that Boxer has been one of California’s Senators for almost 20 years.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  205. That’s the truly frightening realization,Dusrin, for eighteen years this hack has been in the Senate.

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  206. It is amazing that Boxer has been one of California’s Senators for almost 20 years.

    A good percentage of California’s electorate has increasingly gravitated towards a Euro-socialist, Greece/Spain/Venezuela/Mexico type of mentality since the late 1980s, early 1990s.

    When I notice that immigration primarily from points south of the border is the only reason the state’s population has grown so significantly for quite awhile, and then pair that with all the voters who fall for the notion that liberalism is a sign of big-heartedness and sophistication, it’s easy to be cynical about the west coast’s future.

    Mark (411533)

  207. You guys want I should open a debate thread? Or pointless since it’s over?

    I knew about it beforehand but the family was watching a Star Trek re-run. One guy was black on one side of his face and white on the other, while the other guy was white on one side of his face and black on the other.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  208. I continue to be astonished at the way that Palin continues to drive the left, as well as others, crazy.

    I think I know why, but the complete abandonment of all logic regarding her is interesting, amazing, educational and sometimes a bit frightening.

    Ag80 (2f74a7)

  209. I’m cool with such a thread. I was hoping California folks would want to talk about it.

    I think it was a very watchable debate, btw. People should try to watch it, if they can.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  210. AW Ban (in CA)…
    The Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Ban was passed in 1989!

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)

  211. That was the most racist comment you have ever made, Patterico.

    JD (8ded14)

  212. “…She and her family will never forget how they were treated between the terrible, invasive, biased “journalism” they were subjected to…”

    Unlike Palin, Christie and the others haven’t had to deal with scurrilous rumors/questions about their genitalia.
    It does tend to give you a different take on what you’re dealing with.

    AD - RtR/OS! (30a4ff)

  213. Here you go.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  214. If Palin continues to walk into ambushes and loses her cool of course she can’t be a serious candidate. I’m not aware that she has continued to do this, however.

    As far as personally bristling compared to others, she’s had to deal with the MSM picking on her children and making an issue of her sister’s domestic abuse as well as having her email account hacked and contents made public. We can’t even see Obama’s college grades for crying out loud. I know it’s whiney to complain of unfair treatment, especially if she does it, but really, let’s see what Christie does when people attack his family and start rumors about his health issues.

    Heck, I’d love to see the sparkling knight who can beat the pigs wrestling in the mud and coming up smelling like a rose, too. Someone as genial as Jimmy Stewart, makes Dirty Harry look like a wimp, scares Jack Palance, intellectually intimidates Kissinger, and more popular than Newman and Redford in their heyday combined, but my wife won’t let me run, so you’ll have to take what you can get.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  215. MD in Philly – Have you taught your racoons how to sing yet?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  216. The thing about Christie and Ryan is that they both give off major, regular dude vibes. They both look directly at the camera and just talk… very naturally.

    I have no doubt that Christie would mercy rule Teh One in debate. Christie is the best communicator I have heard/seen since Reagan.

    Ryan has a geeky side to him without looking it. He handles numbers and complicated issues very well and gets his points across. Against Slow Joe? Early, knock-out round, much like Cheney taking Edwards out to the wood shed in 2004.

    Thick&Thin for Prez.

    PC14 (4a4ed3)

  217. Palin/Bachmann 2012. That’s not a prediction, that’s my pragmatic hope. Personally, I prefer Fred Thompson/John Kasich, but that won’t happen.

    And the India Delta Ten Tango sorority who continue to refuse to examine the facts surrounding her choice to step down as Governor are stuck with their logic fallacies and vitriol. Sarah Palin has more class in the tip of her little finger than the entirety of the membership of the India Delta Ten Tango sorority.

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  218. Thick&Thin for Prez.

    Comment by PC14

    You couldn’t ask for a more stark contrast in personalities and competence between those two and Obama/Biden.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  219. daley-

    Haven’t heard from them since the moth balls and ammonia went into their living space. Of course, with the blast of 95 degree heat we’re not hearing much over the air conditioner and fans.
    One of these nights I’ll need to sit out on the porch with long sharp and blunt instruments (not musical) to listen out for them. I’ll keep you posted.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  220. I’m starting to come around to Dustin’s “Thick & Thin” concept.

    The GOP needs someone who can out-talk Obama, and Christie is the only guy they’ve got who’s in Obama’s weight class, as it were. I think Christie is Obama’s equal in intelligence, speaking ability, and charisma. Plus Christie projects a kind of regular-guy conviction which Obama lacks; and Christie says things that are actually substantive, whereas Obama mostly mouths platitudes dressed up as substance. That silly Greek temple should be brought back to haunt him in ads: sure, it looks grandiose, but c’mon, it’s made of styrofoam.

    Obama will have two big weaknesses in 2012: a) people are already starting to get tired of his rhetorical schtick, two more years like this and he’ll be running on empty, people will be tuning him out. And b) he’s really the only charmer the Dems have got; the rest of their major players are shrill or in disrepute. So he’s going to look sort of alone out there. The GOP only has two real rock stars – Christie and Palin – but the GOP has a deeper bench of backing players — if they can be talked into working strictly rhythm.

    In other words, this time around the GOP should try to plan and structure their primaries strategy; instead of the usual free-for-all, it should be more of a tag team, with individuals providing support from different angles in order to advance their “real” team (let’s say it’s Christie/Ryan) and undermine the Dems from multiple positions. Let Christie lead with his brains and charisma, backed up by Ryan with his command of facts, and Palin with her charisma and Mama Grizzly act. Convince Romney to stay out of the main game, and just back them all up as a smart elder statesman who can attack on a few conservative points and retreat where he’s liberally vulnerable. Have Fred Thompson wryly chuckling from the sidelines. Let Huck lend his evangelical cred, but then back away where he’s vulnerable. Send Gingrich off on a five-year fact-finding tour of Ulaan Bator. He’s old news, he needs to sit this out.

    If they let Christie be the Main Battle Tank while the others cut the Dems’ rhetorical supply lines and leave Obama stranded alone out there, they might have a chance. If it’s just a stale parade of all the hacks who lost in ’08 come back to try again, I don’t think they’ll get very far.

    d. in c. (3c03c3)

  221. From what I’ve seen, Christie stabbing Schundler in the back, who has been at the education reform effort for the better part of two decades since
    he was mayor of Jersey City, is an indication of his character.

    It’s odd how this tiny article almost three years back, got Palin right, http://www.vogue.com/feature/090108VFEA/ (although Fey is a poor copy) instead of the soccer scrum she went through six months later

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  222. Thanks for that nice story, ian. I wonder what a Vogue article on Palin would be like today.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  223. d in c,

    You have overlooked one major flaw in your plan. It makes too much sense.

    Bring on the same old hacks!

    Which is what we will assuredly do.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  224. ian cormac, not sure how I see firing Schundler for his misstatements about the application interview is “stabbing him in the back”.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  225. Ask yourself, wh put the application together, who would leave out a piece of data, that would show
    how poorly Corzine had handled the schools in the last year, this is really Christie’s first loss, against an interest group he has been on the warpath
    against. I’ve followed Schundler for much longer than I know of Christie, mostly through the Journal

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  226. He had no choice, ian – he is always stressing the need for accountability, yet he made it clear that he wasn’t going to sacrifice some poor slob’s job, instead he went all the way to the top. Unfortunately the guy in question was one of the decent people, but the buck’s gotta stop somewhere on that fiasco.

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  227. BTW, Chrisite set this tone early on, when he asked the head of the teacher’s union to fire the arsehole teacher who posted that he wanted to see him dead on the union’s web site. The union head refused – so how can he possibly avoid the hypocricy charge if he doesn’t hold himself out as an example?

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  228. Re: primary strategy, first thing is to have Republicans pick the Republican candidate in NH.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  229. Good luck with that, Steele and co, have done nothing to prevent them from the Dems steeling the primaries

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  230. Yes ian. It makes about as much sense as Bush being soft on the border. Sometimes conspiracy theories seem to make the most sense because nothing else does.

    You seem to be aware of Christie and NJ details. Being in Pbilly I hear things aimed at South Jersey, but don’t pay much attention. I know Christie had a primary opponent (Lonagan or some such) who continues to have adds criticizing Christie’s efforts on taxes, “cap and tax” energy fees, and budget. Does this fellow have legitimate points, or is he carping because he wants perfection or what?

    When will Christie be up for reelection? Because if he hasn’t been “Palinized” (similar to being “Borked”) yet, he will be, and if he can survive it that would be a very strong point as a presidential candidate.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  231. I grew up there, so I still keep a watchful eye. He’s probably as good a candidate as they are likely
    to get, Whitman and Kean, being typical squishes

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  232. REAL CHANGE FOR AMERICA

    BOLTON PALIN 2012

    John Bolton for President 2012
    Sarah Palin for Vice-President 2012

    TRUE CONSERVATIVE LEADERS

    FACEBOOK: Bolton Palin

    http://www.boltonpalin2012.com

    Paul Revere (f5f568)


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