Patterico's Pontifications

8/23/2010

L.A. Times Delivers Pro-Muslim Spin on Ground Zero Mosque

Filed under: Dog Trainer — Patterico @ 12:07 pm



The L.A. Times today publishes an article by Borzou Daragahi about how Muslims across the world disapprove of opposition to the Ground Zero mosque:

The heated debate across America over construction of the so-called ground zero mosque is reverberating across the globe, with the potential of creating a worldwide black eye for the United States.

Many Muslims abroad are miffed by the stateside debate, largely conducted by non-Muslims, that has grown so loud as to become a topic of discussion on talk shows and newspapers from Bali to Bahrain, from Baghdad to Berlin. The proposed Cordoba House has become a symbol of America’s fraught relations with the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims.

I don’t understand why anyone would discern hostile intentions from the builders.  After all, t’s not like the project’s “moderate” imam Feisal Rauf is happy about the controversy, right?

“The fact we are getting this kind of attention is a sign of success,” Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf reportedly said Sunday with respect to the project, addressing a gathering at the U.S. ambassador’s residence in the Persian Gulf state of Bahrain.

“It is my hope that people will understand more,” Rauf said without elaborating, according to the AP.

Oh.

While the paper does report that quote in a separate article, portraying it as benign, the quote does not make it into this article.

That wouldn’t be good propaganda.

Amid a flurry of Arab complaints about the U.S. — we need to do something about Israel; we need to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan; etc. — the article does include the perspective of some Muslims that the mosque is a bad idea.  See if you can figure out what aspect of that admission they leave out.

“Building a mosque there will increase hatred between Muslims and non-Muslims in the West,” said Gamal Awad, a professor at Cairo’s Al Azhar University. “It will further connect Islam with a horrible event.”

Al Aznar, eh?  They’re the folks who declared the mosque a Zionist conspiracy — a little tidbit that the L.A. Times doesn’t tell you about.

That wouldn’t be good propaganda.

Are we seriously to believe that Borzou Daragahi, or his special correspondents — Amro Hassan in Cairo, Ranya Kadri in Amman, Jordan, Ramin Mostaghim in Tehran, or Meris Lutz in Beirut — elicited no anti-Semitic comments about the mosque being a Zionist conspiracy?

Or should we conclude, rather, that somewhere along the chain, such comments were deemed “unhelpful” to the agenda of the story?

 

144 Responses to “L.A. Times Delivers Pro-Muslim Spin on Ground Zero Mosque”

  1. If the mosque builders really want to build a bridge, might I suggest they donate the land, build a park on it, and in the park, build a symbolic bridge. If, indeed, they paid 5 million dollars for the building, that is not much for real estate in NYC, and the gesture would go a long way to heal wounds.

    jd (52c271)

  2. Pardon me when I say that I frankly don’t give a rat’s ass about what Muslims overseas might think about the existence of a debate “largely conducted among non-Moslems in the USA”.

    What bleeping business of it is theirs?

    Mike Myers (3c9845)

  3. Painted Jaguar: Somehow I never cease to be amazed by what I should no longer be amazed by, except it is amazing to keep seeing it.

    MD says an LAT article written truthfully and honestly would be an interesting plot for an episode of The Twilight Zone. I wouldn’t know much about that, as on the floor of the jungle by the Dark, Turbid Amazon it gets pitch black as soon as the sun goes down.

    P.J. for MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  4. The LA Times is a useful source of what the clueless lefties on the west side think. Other than that, since I don’t have a parakeet anymore, I can find no useful purpose for it.

    Mike K (d6b02c)

  5. Patterico

    Oh, come on, give me some linky love. i have been pointing out that Al Anzar has been calling it a zionist conspiracy for days.

    http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2010/08/islamic-research-academy-there-should.html

    But good catch on the LA Times. You should headline this blog: “Patterico: Reading the LA Times so you don’t have to.”

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (e7d72e)

  6. “If the mosque builders really want to build a bridge, might I suggest they donate the land, build a park on it, and in the park, build a symbolic bridge.”

    As you note, that would be just a symbolic bridge.

    geoff (ae4d0b)

  7. Did any messengers survive this fisking? Or, were they all successfully killed?

    What amazes me about this story is why the LA Times needs to have some foreigner tell us what Muslims are thinking instead of some good ol’ Murican from Orange County? It’s sad they have to ask actual Muslims, because, if there’s one thing we’ve learned, it’s that 1.5 billion Muslims are our enemy and we can’t believe a word any of them say!

    Now, let’s all hum “Onward Christian Soldiers” as we discuss what loathesome people these Muslims are!

    timb (449046)

  8. geoff

    btw, if they are trying to build bridges, metaphorically or otherwise…

    Why call it Cordoba House?

    I mean why name it after where they put a victory mosque?

    I mean I know some people are trying to spin it as something other than a victory mosque in cordoba spain. now in truth that is not very credible, but let’s just agree to disagree by saying, okay at best this is an ambiguous phrase: cordoba house.

    But its not like they didn’t have better options. For instance, they have claimed that this place was designed to honor the muslims who were murdered by terrorists on 9-11. So why not name it for one of them. Or why not for one of the millions of muslims who died fighting terrorism.

    I mean why not name it the Maj. James Ahearn House? http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/jmahearn.htm

    Ten seconds with google found that name. I bet i could find hundreds of others.

    But no, instead they chose a name that was at best ambiguous.

    Nor is the proximity to ground zero a coincidence or inconsequential. Early on, it was a selling point until liberals decided en masse to pretend the Ground Zero Mosque was neither a Mosque or at Ground Zero. they specifically picked that spot because debris from the WTC fell there. they can’t swear off its proximity or its significance now.

    So why Cardoba House? Why not Maj. James Ahearn House?

    Or how about the Touri Bolourchi house? I mean isn’t this a hole to fill, a gap to bridge? Let me quote her daughter on how she felt on 9-11:

    > On the morning of Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2001, I watched as terrorists slammed United Flight 175 into the South Tower of the World Trade Center, 18 minutes after their accomplices on another hijacked plane hit the North Tower. My mother was on the flight. I witnessed her murder on live television. I still cannot fully comprehend those images. In that moment, I died as well. I carry a hole in my heart that will never be filled

    Touri and Neda are/were both Muslims, so why not name it after Touri? Instead, they named it Cordoba House and lookey here, she has been alienated. She has said she doesn’t want to mosque at ground zero, either:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/06/AR2010080603006.html

    So why Cordoba House and not one of those thousands of better options?

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (e7d72e)

  9. I’ll just quote the other frequent poster on this site: Jack Dunphy:
    Forgive Me For Not Caring What They Think

    These murdering bastards do not deserve anymore of my brain synapses, energy. Someone please blow these mofos completely out of existence.

    wavynavy (10aa8c)

  10. off topic, but wow, this imam is a tad more radical than advertised. the revelations teased last week in the comments are starting to drop.

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/08/explosive-in-faisals-own-words.html

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (e7d72e)

  11. Sorry I might not have edited that well. Jack Dunphy did not say “These murdering bastards do not…” I did. And since I am in Africa for the forseeable future I’m hoping (and changing, yeah!) that somebody can accomplish the destruction of the newest Obama Hoax and Chains

    wavynavy (10aa8c)

  12. “Why call it Cordoba House?”

    This is probably why:

    http://gotmedieval.blogspot.com/2010/08/professor-newts-distorted-history.html

    Who told you that the cordoba mosque was a “victory mosque” ?

    geoff (604a8a)

  13. Timb is a big fan of moderate Muslims.

    • NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams, Dec. 9, 2004: “It’s the TV industry’s newest experiment, ‘Bridges TV,’ billing itself the ‘American-Muslim lifestyle network,’ featuring movies, documentaries, cartoons. . . . It’s the brainchild of Aasiya Hassan, an architect, and her husband, Muzzamil Hassan, a banker, who are disturbed that negative images of Muslims seem to dominate TV, especially since 9/11.”

    Then, a slight problem.

    As for Bridges TV, the saccharine story told by Brian Williams and reporter Ron Allen (complete with scenes of the family’s domestic bliss in their modest home in Buffalo, N.Y.), came to an abrupt end in February 2009, when Mr. Hassan beheaded his wife after she had filed for divorce, evicted him from their home, and won an order of protection. Last week, Mr. Hassan’s attorney defended her client on the grounds that he was, of all things, a “battered spouse.”

    Maybe “Bridges” isn’t the best option for the site.

    MIke K (d6b02c)

  14. geoff, you ought to know that among Osama Bin Laden’s grievances against the West was the reconquist of “Al Andalusia” aka Spain.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  15. I’m sure this has already been pointed out, but it’s interesting how the media addresses mosque critics and Shirley Sherrod quite differently. SS’s ‘hate whitey’ thinking/behavior was entirely excused by the media. Why? Her father had been killed by a white guy and the perp never answered for the crime.

    Now take the 9/11 families in the mosque controversy. The media now seems to feel that there is no factual basis for being against the mosque (wrong, but that’s their position) and that it’s just irrationality/trauma from 9/11. With Sherrod, the media treated her bigotry as righteous. With the mosque critics, this same irrationality is presented as something to be fixed. For Sherrod: whitey killed your Dad and all of white America is responsible so feel free to blame whitey. For 9/11 families: okay, radical Muslims killed your loved one but that’s no reason to take it out on all Muslims – you need to work through this and get over it already – it’s been 9 years for crying out loud!

    East Bay Jay (2fd7f7)

  16. geoff, just how much of this old spin are you going to regurgitate here? It is not “green” to recycle obsolete talking points.

    Try to focus on the real issue – why does an islamic center / mosque have to be built at that spot? Its proximity to Ground Zero is not an accident. Its intentional, the Cordoba Initiative people have heralded that.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  17. Geoff

    Steven Emmerson, for one. you know the guy who said terrorism was a serious danger to america before 9-11 and everyone scoffed. that guy.

    I trust him over your crappy blog any day of the week.

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (e7d72e)

  18. Goeff

    I also love how your article just breezes past the mentions of christian persecutions and even martyrdom. that takes two sentences. descriptions of how learned everyone was there gets block quote treatment.

    Even your bullshit blog doesn’t really make its case very well.

    Again, in a world of options, why not something UNAMBIGUOUS?

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (e7d72e)

  19. “geoff, you ought to know that among Osama Bin Laden’s grievances against the West was the reconquist of “Al Andalusia” aka Spain.”

    So? Does that erase the positive things that happened in Cordoba? The expulsion of moors and jews from spain did try to erase some of those things.

    Did you read the entire piece I linked to in 3 minutes?

    “Try to focus on the real issue – why does an islamic center / mosque have to be built at that spot?”

    Speaking in terms of “have to” is spin.

    geoff (14df54)

  20. “I trust him over your crappy blog any day of the week.”

    It’s not my blog. Do you trust the catholic encyclopedia’s description of Cordoba? It’s linked from that blog. More info in the comments too.

    geoff (14df54)

  21. geoff

    Are you really going to stand there and pretend this was the BEST name for it?

    A mosque built on lands conquered, where christians were persecuted EVEN ACCORDING TO YOUR BLOG, where a saint was martyred?

    As opposed to an American soldier who converted to islam and died for the freedom of others?

    Or an innocent muslim woman who was murdered on 9-11?

    Or literally thousands of other options.

    Hell, at least if they called it Medina House, you could say it is basically neutral. but instead they named it after a mosque that stood on conquered land, the very land that bin Laden demands to be returned.

    Are you prepared to say that this was the best message to send? The best way to build the bridges they supposedly want to build.

    And don’t even get me started on the new audio coming out.

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (e7d72e)

  22. Speaking in terms of “have to” is spin.

    Comment by geoff

    What?

    They went out of their way to seek a location as close to Ground Zero as possible.

    And by they I mean terrorist sympathizers at best, now proven beyond any shadow of a doubt. ‘Have to’ is not spin. I want to know why this specific location was picked. Even though I already know. this is a victory mosque, and just because some nutcases can identify something good from the original Cordoba mosque doesn’t change the truth.

    This guy doesn’t think the victims of 9/11 were innocent. He’s no moderate. This Mosque is a provocation. Granted, a provocation that is legal. He’s no better than a Nazi or a Klansman building a center near his victim’s grave. The hard left defends him out of spite for this country.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  23. dustin

    have you seen the new stuff over at atlas shrugged?

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (e7d72e)

  24. “Are you really going to stand there and pretend this was the BEST name for it?”

    Nope. Just that I think the freakout over the name is wrong.

    “A mosque built on lands conquered, where christians were persecuted EVEN ACCORDING TO YOUR BLOG, where a saint was martyred?”

    It’s not my blog. Did you read the whole thing?

    “Even though I already know. this is a victory mosque, and just because some nutcases can identify something good from the original Cordoba mosque doesn’t change the truth.”

    What makes you say that the good things written about the Cordoba mosque are from a “some nutcases” ?

    geoff (14df54)

  25. In the true spirit of reconciliation and “bridge building”, at the next Haj we should give Islam a gift of a 5mt air burst over Mecca, so that they can always remember who they pissed off on 9/11!

    Think of it as a nice hot cup of STFU!

    AD - RtR/OS! (1f83e6)

  26. Geoff

    > Nope. Just that I think the freakout over the name is wrong.

    Then tell me why they didn’t pick any one of literally THOUSANDS of better names for it? They were buiding it at ground zero for the express purpose of building bridges. i mean that is their stated purpose. So how did that go?

    Couldn’t they have picked a name that REALLY built bridges instead of something that invoke the conquest, persecution and martyrdom of christians?

    Hey i have a great idea for a chrisitian church in jerusalem. i will call it Holocaust House!

    Or hey, how about a buddhist temple right near Auschwitz? We’ll call it Swastika House!

    Oh, wait, you have a negative association with Swastikas? Well, that isn’t fair. don’t you know to Buddhists, Swastikas are a sign of harmony and other happy go lucky things? So why is everyone so upset?

    maybe you can claim that the founders of this mosque are just stupid, but to borrow a phrase i think Dustin used with Kagan, they strike me as “stupid like a fox.”

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (e7d72e)

  27. Just that I think the freakout over the name is wrong.

    What freakout? People are recognizing that this mosque is a huge troll. They are noting the simple fact that the name and the location and the people behind it are obviously rubbing our noses in mass murder from 9/11. Where’s the freakout? I saw the protests this weekend… you call that freaking out?

    I guess you don’t know what a real freakout is. A real freakout is when people threaten to kill you for drawing Muhammad, or blow up the twin towers, or build a mosque practically over a mass grave. That’s a freakout. You are being ansti establishment because your daddy didn’t hug you enough, geoff. You’re the freakout.

    Aaron, I haven’t had the chance to read Gellar’s, but I heard about the recent tapes from Ace’s blog. Insane, but I’m sure there’s plenty where that came from. Geoff has no leg to stand on here. This mosque is wrong. If it were a moderate group of muslims celebrating the opposite of Mecca style Islam, celebrating that America is better, I’d help them build the stupid thing. Instead, it’s the secretive nutcase thing again.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  28. “Try to focus on the real issue – why does an islamic center / mosque have to be built at that spot?”

    Speaking in terms of “have to” is spin.

    Another misrepresentation on your part, geoff. The Cordoba Initiative have themselves emphasized the location adjacent to ground zero.

    You really need to get talking points that have not already been rebutted … you know, more truthful ones.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  29. dustin

    the scary thing about those things is it was given in america. its the usual bad liberal cliches. every american trope is his belief.

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (e7d72e)

  30. er, i meant to write “anti-american trope” [facepalm]

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (e7d72e)

  31. Aaron, another scary thing about it is that our federal government has been funding this nutcase for years. They have built up yet another monster.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  32. “Couldn’t they have picked a name that REALLY built bridges instead of something that invoke the conquest, persecution and martyrdom of christians?”

    What you’re not seeing is that it doesn’t invoke that. Rather it invokes “the peace which the Christians of Cordova then enjoyed […] the citizens of Cordova, Arabs, Christians, and Jews, enjoyed so high a degree of literary culture that the city was known as the New Athens. From all quarters came students eager to drink at its founts of knowledge. Among the men afterwards famous who studied at Cordova were the scholarly monk Gerbert, destined to sit on the Chair of Peter as Sylvester II (999-1003), the Jewish rabbis Moses and Maimonides, and the famous Spanish-Arabian commentator on Aristotle, Averroes.”

    Is it the best? I can’t say so. I also don’t think it’s the nightmare you describe.

    “I guess you don’t know what a real freakout is.”

    Is this a freakout:

    “In the true spirit of reconciliation and “bridge building”, at the next Haj we should give Islam a gift of a 5mt air burst over Mecca, so that they can always remember who they pissed off on 9/11!”

    Or a troll?

    geoff (4ef30d)

  33. Geoff

    > What you’re not seeing is that it doesn’t invoke that.

    Even your own stupid citation says that. Let me quote it:

    > The article then discusses the persecution of the Christians under Abd-ar-Ramman II, which included the martyrdom of St. Eulogius.

    Conquered, persecuted, martyered.

    What a great name for a new mosque! Let’s put it at ground zero!

    Seriously, why are you being intentionally this thick? Why are you defending this a—hole even after the tapes are coming out?

    I am continually stunned at how this debate is immune to all facts.

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (e7d72e)

  34. Comment by geoff — 8/23/2010 @ 2:17 pm

    You are always welcome to enjoy a “Major ‘King’ Kong” moment.

    AD - RtR/OS! (1f83e6)

  35. “Conquered, persecuted, martyered.”

    Cordoba was also a place where muslims were defeated and their grand mosque (made so hundreds of years after the conquest) was crudely turned into a cathedral. And also a place conquered by the Visigoths. But just because something happened in Cordoba does not mean this is what is invoked by that word. You read the whole piece. You get what they said.

    geoff (bcafcf)

  36. Oh, are you talking about the mosque that was built on the ruins of a destroyed cathedral to symbolize the conquering of Andalusia?
    That mosque?
    And why do you suppose the Spaniards tore it down and rebuilt the cathedral that had previously been there?
    I guess they just didn’t want to build any bridges to Islam.

    AD - RtR/OS! (1f83e6)

  37. “Oh, are you talking about the mosque that was built on the ruins of a destroyed cathedral to symbolize the conquering of Andalusia?”

    Nope.

    “And why do you suppose the Spaniards tore it down and rebuilt the cathedral that had previously been there?”

    They didn’t tear it down. They also didn’t rebuild the pagan visigoth temple that was previously on the site either.

    geoff (bcafcf)

  38. my bad. The pagan temple was not visigoth.

    geoff (b36a11)

  39. Cordoba was also a place where muslims were defeated and their grand mosque (made so hundreds of years after the conquest) was crudely turned into a cathedral.

    Comment by geoff — 8/23/2010 @ 2:38 pm

    You got that exactly backwards, jack@ss.

    http://bigpeace.com/abostom/2010/08/21/journalistic-malpractice-time-magazines-bobby-ghosh-and-cnns-ali-velshi-on-cordovan-ecumenism-in-muslim-spain/

    RickZ (7c3f16)

  40. He’s not concerned with reality. He’s concerned with pushing the anti-american agenda of the Cordoba Initiative. It’s a particularly disgusting and extreme agenda, and it’s exposed for all to see. Nearly 80% of Americans do see it, so I’m not losing sleep over this.

    Muslims around the world, or the stunted subhuman slime who support this Mosque, such as Rauf, that guy who thinks some 9/11 victims deserved it and blames America and wants to delete Israel, do not always have a perfect memory of history. That’s where Geoff is really off the rails. What matters is what they actually mean by picking this name for their victory mosque. That meaning is obvious. I know a lot of Muslims in the middle east, and it can be surprising how little history they know if you ask them about WWII or American history. A disturbing number of these people have never been informed of the holocaust. The idea that we should analyze carefully whether Cordoba of centuries past was a mixed bag of hate and tolerance is pointless.

    This is like naming the Green Zone the Crusader Land. It’s blatant trolling. Geoff knows what they meant, and that’s why he’s avoiding that aspect. We’re talking about the most vicious and anti american speaker I’ve heard in quite a while. Gee, I wonder why he chose that location and name. Geeeee.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  41. Geoff, are you NUTS? Even little OLD me knows the true story of Cordoba. Here is a tidbit from my blog (well documented Geoff):

    “Toledo, which had first submitted to the Arabs in 711 or 712, revolted in 713. The town was punished by pillage and all the notables had their throats cut. In 730, the Cerdagne (in Septimania, near Barcelona) was ravaged and a bishop burned alive. In the regions under stable Islamic control, Jews and Christians were tolerated as dhimmis – like elsewhere in other Islamic lands – and could not build new churches or synagogues nor restore the old ones. Segregated in special quarters, they had to wear discriminatory clothing. Subjected to heavy taxes, the Christian peasantry formed a servile class attached to the Arab domains; many abandoned their land and fled to the towns. Harsh reprisals with mutilations and crucifixions* would sanction the Mozarab (Christian dhimmis) calls for help from the Christian kings. Moreover, if one dhimmi harmed a Muslim, the whole community would lose its status of protection, leaving it open to pillage, enslavement and arbitrary killing.

    “By the end of the eighth century, the rulers of North Africa and of Andalusia had introduced Malikism, one of the most rigorous schools of Islamic jurisprudence, and subsequently repressed the other Muslim schools of law. Three quarters of a century ago, at a time when political correctness was not dominating historical publication and discourse, Evariste Lévi-Provençal, the pre-eminent scholar of Andalusia, wrote: “The Muslim Andalusian state thus appears from its earliest origins as the defender and champion of a jealous orthodoxy, more and more ossified in a blind respect for a rigid doctrine, suspecting and condemning in advance the least effort of rational speculation.”

    and linked here:

    “The witness of those who lived through the horrors of the Berber conquest, of the Andalusian fitnah in the early eleventh century, of the Almoravid invasion—to mention only a few disruptive episodes—must give it [i.e., the roseate view of Muslim Spain] the lie. The simple and verifiable historical truth is that Moorish Spain was more often a land of turmoil than it was of tranquility…Tolerance? Ask the Jews of Granada who were massacred in 1066, or the Christians who were deported by the Almoravids to Morocco in 1126 (like the Moriscos five centuries later)…In the second half of the twentieth century a new agent of obfuscation makes its appearance: the guilt of the liberal conscience, which sees the evils of colonialism—assumed rather than demonstrated—foreshadowed in the Christian conquest of al-Andalus and the persecution of the Moriscos (but not, oddly, in the Moorish conquest and colonization). Stir the mix well together and issue it free to credulous academics and media persons throughout the western world. Then pour it generously over the truth…in the cultural conditions that prevail in the west today the past has to be marketed, and to be successfully marketed it has to be attractively packaged. Medieval Spain in a state of nature lacks wide appeal. Self-indulgent fantasies of glamour…do wonders for sharpening up its image. But Moorish Spain was not a tolerant and enlightened society even in its most cultivated epoch.”

    Give it up geoff, you lose!

    GM Roper (5f13e9)

  42. “You got that exactly backwards, jack@ss.”

    There’s really not much room to doubt that the moors were defeated in cordoba and the grand mosque became what it now is: a cathedral.

    geoff (150cd7)

  43. “The simple and verifiable historical truth is that Moorish Spain was more often a land of turmoil than it was of tranquility”

    Indeed even Muslim Cordoba itself was attacked by…other Muslims. But in your story that lumps all of Moorish spain together, you missed out what happened in Cordoba.

    geoff (150cd7)

  44. Hey Geoff, with two ‘f’s. You seem to be a weasling lawyer type who likes to debate “is”s. You and Billy Jeff (with 2 ‘f’ s) are probably asshole buddies.

    You are so fucking smart, so please ‘splain it to me why we are in such a shithole now. Could it be be that people like Bloomberg and Obama think that the best way forward is to bend forward and let the goat fuckers stick it up our ass?

    And if not, then Geoff with 2 “f”s why is the general media attention and the country concerned about Race. Did not we just elect a POTUS who was post-racial? Huh?

    And if that’s not your answer to a very simple question, Give it to me straight, Baby, if you are straight enough to handle it—Why is this country in such a shithole? And I’m talking about economically, socially(race issues), religiously(hamasque at GZ), nuclearly(Iran), Energy-wise(where is the Green energy revolution, and why is our best source of energy (OIL) being cut off?)

    Enough of this. “Splain it to me, the simple flyover guy who actually works for a living.

    wavynavy (10aa8c)

  45. geoff,

    you really are dense, almost as dense as Pelosium. Take your ‘peace, love and spare change’ tolerance of mohammedans and move to one their islamic hellholes paradises. After a year or two there, if you’re still alive, get back to me.

    RickZ (7c3f16)

  46. Cordoba House – because it is filled with soft, Corinthian leather?

    R Montalban (e35d11)

  47. Geoffry

    > Cordoba was also

    So now you are no longer denying that YOU OWN CITATION says that for Christians it validly symbolizes conquest, persecution and martyrdom, just that the poor Moors suffered greatly, too.

    Yeah, and both feed into the worst complexes infecting the arab world. The sense of once having been a great civilization to having it taken away. That is the history invoked: lost dominance, and reconquista. What a great name for a Mosque!

    As a rule of thumb, if you want to send the right message in the war on terror, don’t name your mosque after one that stood in land that bin Laden is claiming truly belongs to Islam and has demanded it to be returned.

    Again if the idea was to build bridges, isn’t this a really retarded name for it?

    *puts a dunce cap on geoff*

    GM Roper

    I would love to have a cite to that blog post you mentioned.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  48. Ban me while you’re at it, but get rid of this complete asshole Geoff with two “f”s. He’s poison, as are every one of the islamists defenders and supporters.

    These people are only here to contradict a rational argument about the hamasque and islam. islam is not a religion. It is a mind controlling regime that respects not government or other faith.

    I am not a person of faith. I do not believe in an Allah, or a God. I think therefore I am. I do not know how I was created or why I was created.

    Islam is a deadly and suffocating practice for anyone who wants liberty and freedom

    wavynavy (10aa8c)

  49. wavy

    Who is talking about banning?

    Now sometimes people get caught in spam filters, but there are people who will usually look for you. is that what is happening?

    But Patterico will put up with alot of outrageous sh-t and not ban people. i’m not saying no one is banned, but its rare.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  50. When a Sunni Muslim kills a Shia Muslim every so called moderate Muslim is to blame. When so called moderate Muslims stop Muslim on Muslim violence we can believe there is a group of moderate Muslims.

    Once this imaginary group of moderates appear we can start believing they have influence on the rest of the hate filled, racist, women beating, cowardly, homicidal Muslims that are everywhere else in the world.

    highpockets (adaced)

  51. Allah is a pimp.

    highpockets (adaced)

  52. High

    That’s not fair. Muslims have fought and died in the fight against terrorism, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan. I won’t speculate about the true meaning of Islam. But I know there are good people who fight and die to stop true evil, shouting allah akbar as they do.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  53. That’s true AW, the problem is the extremists like Aulaqi, Quradawi, CAIR, et al, like to hide behind
    the moderate label

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  54. I’m curious what folks think about this that just surfaced:

    “We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al-Qaeda has on its hands of innocent non Muslims,” Feisal Abdul Rauf said at a 2005 lecture sponsored by the University of South Australia. After discussing the U.S.-led sanctions against Iraq under Saddam Hussein, Rauf went on to argue that America is to blame for its testy relationship with Islamic countries.

    “What complicates the discussion, intra-Islamically, is the fact that the West has not been cognizant and has not addressed the issues of its own contribution to much injustice in the Arab and Muslim world.” – Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf

    After reading that and listening to his additional comments, he appears to be saying that it’s beyond mere moral equivalence between AQ and America, he believes America is worse than AQ.

    ColonelHaiku (60a24c)

  55. “The fact we are getting this kind of attention is a sign of success,” Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf reportedly said Sunday with respect to the project, addressing a gathering at the U.S. ambassador’s residence in the Persian Gulf state of Bahrain.

    Oh good grief, this man is as tone-deaf as our president. Believe anything but the in-your-face fact that 70% of the attention is from Americans OBJECTING to the project as it stands. What a ninny.

    With that, while on his taxpayer funded tour in the mideast, he could build some serious bridges here with protesters if we heard him encouraging and stressing the need for those countries to allow synagogues to be built there. I might actually reconsider my view of Park 51 then.

    It would also go miles to convince me that he is really about that “religious freedom” he keeps talking about.

    Until then, no deal.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  56. For Geoff, and others, Maimonides,Cordoba, the Almoheds,the original Spanish inquisition,as seen in writings of the timenull

    alene (9ee724)

  57. Colonel

    Agreed. and notice the uneven comparision. America is held accountable for muslim blood. But al Qaeda is held accountable for only NON-muslim blood. Which of course is cutting out the majority of victims of al Qaeda. indeed, would cut out the very same victims on 9-11 of the islamic faith. why don’t they count to him?

    Because they aren’t targets they are just martyrs to the cause–albeit unwilling ones?

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  58. But I know there are good people who fight and die to stop true evil, shouting allah akbar as they do.

    Comment by Aaron Worthing

    Good point. And while it’s hard to believe if your only exposure to Islam is the news and the insane aspects of their religious texts, there really are great people who are Muslim. And a lot of them really do take a stand against the evil of Islamofascism.

    It’s a shame our media do not elevate these voices, but they exist.

    All that aside, the people behind the victory mosque are absolute scum.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  59. Dustin

    Its like someone said after 9-11. The muslim world is full of good people. unfortunately none of them are in charge.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  60. btw, working on a thorough fisking of that idiot’s speech. The more you interrogate what he says, the more it sounds like he is one of those guys who barely keeps his mask on when speaking in english. i would love to hear what he says in arabic, when he doesn’t think we are listening…

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  61. Basically zippo coverage of Pam Geller’s Imam Rauf’s scoop from the fiercely independent thinking professional left according to memeorandum. Curious that. Seems it must be tougher to coordinate their talking points without Journolist or something.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  62. “For Geoff, and others, Maimonides,Cordoba, the Almoheds,the original Spanish inquisition,as seen in writings of the timenull”

    Indeed, that was Muslim Cordoba that was attacked by Berbers.

    geoff (14df54)

  63. Painted Jaguar: My Mummy, who is ever so patient and wise, told me something very important when I was only a little cub. She told me, “Listen to me, my child, and harken to my instruction, and it will go well for you. When you are out in the world on your own you will meet many different creatures, the sloths high in the trees, the llamas on the mountain slopes, the Anaconda in the wetlands; but know this, though the creatures seem of many types, there are only two types you must learn to recognize. There are those creatures that are your friends, and then there are those that are not, and this is how you will know for sure which type a creature is, the friend will act like a friend. A creature may claim to be your friend, it may seem to be your friend for a time, but when a difficulty arises, you will see the truth, for a friend will care about you, will listen to you, will be concerned for you, and even if they disagree with you, you will know you have been heard, that they have cared, and that they respect you enough to tell the truth, not what you want to hear.
    This is very different from the one who claims to be your friend, who promises to be your friend, who shouts loudly and gives oaths to others about how they will be your friend for ever, but is not. For all of their posturing, they are not your friend, and you are not to trust them. For they are like the crocodile in the river, that appears to be a log. But it is only posturing as a log, for it will reveal itself to be a crocodile to its prey when it is too late.
    Often wise creatures will spend much time discussing things with unwise creatures, trying to do them some good. This is honorable (and something a llama, who spits, will never do), but if you have not the time, nor inclination to discuss, know this, whether a mosque is to be called Cordoba, Cordelia, or “A House for All People of the Book”, if they care not what you think about it but do their own plans anyway, they are not your friend.”

    P.J. for MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  64. Apply Special Forces motto:

    Kill them all, let God sort it out!

    AD - RtR/OS! (1f83e6)

  65. “Basically zippo coverage of Pam Geller’s Imam Rauf’s scoop”

    What’s the scoop? That he puts the sanction’s cost on the US? This guy is no more extreme than your standard leftist.

    geoff (604a8a)

  66. well, as promised/threatened, i fisk the ground zero imam and discover some creepy things he says along the way.

    http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2010/08/fisking-gzm-imam.html

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  67. This guy is no more extreme than your standard leftist.

    Colonel think geoff just
    kidding but must still insist
    that he drop crack pipe

    ColonelHaiku (60a24c)

  68. geoff

    > This guy is no more extreme than your standard leftist.

    Actually i agree. He is not much crazier than most of you.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  69. thanks Aaron for your
    focus on showing Feezul
    Ralph’s true black heart

    ColonelHaiku (60a24c)

  70. This guy is no more extreme than your standard leftist.

    If you think Bill Ayers and Rev Wright are your average leftist, then perhaps you’re right. If you think your average leftist thinks some Al Qaida victims are less bad because they aren’t ‘innocent’ in the little Eichmann way (in particular against WTC deaths, which were unspeakably horrible), then perhaps you’re right. If you think the standard leftist wants the elimination of Israel, then sure, just as extreme.

    If, however, you just don’t think those things are all that extreme, and just normal anti-establishment thought, akin to universal health care with abortions or gay marriage, then you’re insane.

    In my opinion, the standard leftist is far less extreme.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  71. geoff “argues” in the same manner that imdw used to. Obfuscation, sophistry, running around with the goalposts, and ignoring all of the commentary that refutes his assertions.

    JD (3dc31c)

  72. eichmann what?

    geoff (017d51)

  73. Hush, idiot. You are tiresome.

    JD (3dc31c)

  74. Amynda is an imbecile. That is all. She is prolly a midget too.

    JD (3dc31c)

  75. Dustin

    there was an asshole at my lawschool who made almost the same argument, if you want to call it an argument, about 9-11 as that little eichmans crap. what a complete asshole. I think if he said it in my face i would have slugged him. and enjoyed it, too.

    Mmm, a commerative haiku.

    Churchill say terror
    victims deserved their death.
    No honest injun.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  76. geoff lies lies lies lies
    And when he is not lying
    he is lying lying

    JD (3dc31c)

  77. We’re in the best of all possible hands, sheesh,

    http://www.solomonia.com/blog/archive/2010/08/video-john-brennan-takes-a-powder/

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  78. btw, another reason you might enjoy checking out fiskng of this idiot is this. i find a reason for Charles Johnson to hate him. it turns out he is a creationist who wants creationism to be on parity with evolution! OMG what is Charles Johnson to do?!

    http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2010/08/fisking-gzm-imam.html

    i mean you have to have fun with this stuff.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  79. ian, that link kicks ass. highly, highly recommended.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  80. “This guy is no more extreme than your standard leftist.”

    geoff – He fits in well with the blame America first crowd, doesn’t he. He even refers to Farenheit 9/11 in his Australian speech.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  81. It’s interesting how various liberals throughout the Western World were so touchy-feely and “I feel your pain” about the ultra-leftists of the former Soviet Union and, of course, are that way towards Cuba and Venezuela of today.

    And how they’re so touchy-feely and “I feel your pain” about the ultra-rightists of the world of Islam.

    Proves that the idiocy and foolishness of the left knows no boundaries, upwards and downwards, backwards and forwards, coming and going.

    Mark (411533)

  82. That you for the Islamic extremist perspective today, geoff.

    JD (3dc31c)

  83. Geoff’s types are why I see a silver lining. I doubt anyone really digs hearing me repeat it, but we’re in a long term conflict with a very large and very intolerant and actually quite evil group of people. What they are doing with this mosque is plainly evil, albeit legalish (they have to rezone, etc, and for some reason, the Greek Orthodox church didn’t get the same treatment). Only a few of us don’t realize the evil of 9/11, but many of us were not quite aware of the evil of people like Rauf. These are not the moderates we need to work with. In fact, they are stealing the oxygen away from real moderates, and using our own tolerance as a clever weapon against us.

    It’s all very ‘make them live up to their own set of rules’. I’m glad more Americans are waking up to this, but I also am sore that the WTC is not rebuilt, taller than before, with no step back from its original purpose or bold, awesome design idea.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  84. Dustin

    So its “Alinsky by proxy?”

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  85. interesting…. the headline says the moose slimes are worried, but the header at the top of the web page says they are amused….

    screen grab forwarded to Patterico World HQ for analysis.

    Imam Fievel Abdul Riff Rauf (fb8750)

  86. the Imam is right…. allah curse his eyes.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  87. It’s a true ,false debate! but exist a bad idea for a discord into society ;Muslims and all other religion. All of first ,it must ,really, obtain in the societal scene, the separation between State and Religion. For this,all politic, must never enter in this gender or, dance bogus. all free citizen must depleted the debate about Mosque in gound zero.RE08HGMT49

    rachidelaidi (4cbd13)

  88. “geoff – He fits in well with the blame America first crowd, doesn’t he. He even refers to Farenheit 9/11 in his Australian speech.”

    What an extremist. He references a popular leftist movie.

    geoff (c4ad6c)

  89. I will repeat my analysis that he sounds a lot like a lot of liberals I have met, but upon waking, I am not sure most liberals want to own that kind of bile, at least not publicly.

    My guess is they will do their best to pretend it doesn’t exist. Failing that, they might actually pretend to be offended.

    geoff

    That would be a FACT CHALLENGED movie.

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (e7d72e)

  90. That does not say much for American leftist, geoff.

    JD (305567)

  91. Douchebag says what?

    eichmann what?

    Exactly. The fact that you have no idea what that reference pertained to is indicative of your widespread ignorance. Please come back after a few more years of preschool.

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  92. That [sic] you for the Islamic extremist perspective today

    I was unaware this site recognized a difference between “Islamic extremist” and “Islamic,” thus the commenter here is being redundant. Please correct this in the future and remember the talking points of the day: “Islam is the enemy” “Victory mosque,” etc

    timb (449046)

  93. i need better drugs: #89 makes less sense than the usual transient posters here…

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  94. Comment by redc1c4

    nah, your hold on reality is not the one that is slipping.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  95. Islam is not the enemy, you silly little boy. If you could see through your hatred, maybe you could begin to understand.

    JD (305567)

  96. but we’re in a long term conflict with a very large and very intolerant and actually quite evil group of people

    Do you have anything to backup that statement?

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  97. btw, can’t watch the video now, but alleged anti-semitic incident in the pro-ground zero rally.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/anti-semitic-incident-ground-zero-mosque-counter-protest

    Aaron Worthing (A.W.) (e7d72e)

  98. That’s a demonstrable lie, since that vid does not conclusively prove anything. And I know things.

    Comment by El (“depends on what your definition of ‘is’ is”) Jeffy

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  99. timmah! timmah! timmah!

    Icy Texan (1bfb92)

  100. Do you have anything to backup that statement?

    Comment by EricPWJohnson

    As many know, I proved conclusively that EPWJ lies quite nastily and personally, and has a vendetta against me because I proved he was a moby. There’s no doubt about it. He’s a joke and I’m not going to dignify his demand that I prove my statement that there is a group of islamofascism that I find large and evil. That is an opinion, which is why he demands proof, hoping to run around and around with ‘but prove it’. If you don’t think the number of people committed to murder and intolerance and hatred in the Islamic community is evil or large, that’s your deal, idiot. I can no more prove these obvious points than I can prove any other basic opinion. That’s what makes it an opinion.

    Most folks here understand that what you’re doing is stirring the pot, yet again, after hiding for a week after being humiliated, yet again.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  101. Dustin, given how many people here have demonstrated EPWJ’s dishonesty, I think you may consider yourself preaching to the choir.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  102. Preach to me Dustin!

    The Choir (e7d72e)

  103. SPQR is right. A lot of people have exposed EPWJ obviously lying. And frankly, most of them have exposed him lying in much worse ways than my link, and about much worse things.

    but it’s easy to just note that he has negative credibility. Just takes me a few seconds.

    I don’t really care that he’s a moby. He is, obviously, but it’s not a big deal since he’s terrible at it. He freaked about me pointing this out, which is funny enough I guess.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  104. “That does not say much for American leftist, geoff.”

    Michael Moore. Muslim fanatic.

    geoff (4ef30d)

  105. No, geoff. Michael Moore: dishonest hater of America.

    He’s made millions lying to people.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  106. “dishonest hater of America.”

    He calls it “the big one.” But if your problem with rauf is he’s like the left you don’t like, then sorry, your problem won’t elicit much sympathy.

    geoff (ae4d0b)

  107. Won’t elicit much sympathy from the hard left, perhaps, geoff.

    But whatever you pretend this is about, it’s eliciting support, not really sympathy, but strong support, from 4 out of 5 Americans. You’re in the extreme minority, which is why you’re flailing to pretend this is just conservatives vs ‘the other’ instead of America vs a terrorist sympathizer and his victory mosque.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  108. geoff, actually hating the left gets a lot of sympathy in this nation.

    Moore has been lying since he got an interview with Roger Smith and hid it.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  109. “:Moore has been lying since he got an interview with Roger Smith and hid it.”

    My damn history professor actually showed Roger and Me and tested on it. I asked her directly about your point when she asked the class why Roger refused an interview. Moore’s always been an overt liar and troll. He’s like a common troll, noting that he gets more attention if he’s unfair as he can manage to be.

    The professor didn’t care, but the class did. It’s eye opening when someone is railing on and on and on about dishonesty of some CEO, and then snickers and snorts away the fact that her entire argument was a lie. That’s the postmodern nihilist leftist. Geoff is a great example of this complete dismissal of morality.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  110. Dustin

    that reminds me of a comment on IMAO:

    “Grayson really is what would happen if you grabbed a random internet troll and made him a Congressman”

    heh

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  111. People like geoff think Michael Moore is a twoof-teller.

    JD (25347b)

  112. geoff and his ilk keeps running the line that only right wingers care / oppose GZM … but I saw a poll that had Democrats opposing by two-thirds, independants by three-quarters.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  113. then sorry, your problem won’t elicit much sympathy.

    From a lying twat like yourself? Gee, count me among those not interested in your sympathy.

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  114. “No, geoff. Michael Moore: dishonest hater of America.”

    Maybe try this one: you think any of the 9/11 victims were fans of Roger and me?

    “He’s made millions lying to people.”

    Next you’ll be shocked to know that imam rauf is indirectly funded by foxnews viewers.

    geoff (017d51)

  115. I don’t comment often here, but I DO HAVE ONE THING TO SAY TO JEFFAFFAFFA, as we say in TEXAS, “Fuck you and the horse you rode in on” Geoffaffaffa. You and all of your Islamic loving idiot asshole buddies too. Anyone that thinks there is such a thing as a “moderate muslim” is living in fantasyland. Just read http://www.faithfreedom.org/index.htm by an ex-muslim who states that there is no such thing as a moderate muslim. These so-called “moderate muslims” either are using taquiya, or are ignorant what Islam actually is, and are considered to be apostates.

    He also points out, when criticized as to why he isn’t anti-christian, he is more of an agnostic or atheist now, that the closer that Muslims follow the Quoran, the more violent they become, and the closer that a Christian follows the Bible, the more peaceful they become.

    So argue with an ex-muslim about how he is being racist and intolerant. By the way just when was the last time a Christian commandeered a plane and flew it into a building of innocents?

    FYATHURIO (fuck you and the horse you rode in on) dhimmi.

    peedoffamerican (9e4a2d)

  116. geoff, non sequitur is the last tool in your tool box evidently.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  117. Of course the iman is being indirectly funded by fox news viewers. We’re taxpayers, and the Obama State Dept is giving him money.

    Douglas Dubh (99247e)

  118. “We’re taxpayers, and the Obama State Dept is giving him money.”

    The more viewers, the more money fox makes. And Fox’s second largest shareholder funds the imam.

    geoff (48082b)

  119. geoff

    its a publicly traded company. and he owns, allegedly, at most 7%. Really think before you bark out liberal talking points.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  120. Hey I’m just following the money.

    geoff (48082b)

  121. geoff – Are you in favor of Imam Rauf locating his mosque at Ground Zero or against it? It’s a little tough to tell when you don’t actually take a position on anything.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  122. The funding of a Fox News shareholder … wow, that’s soooooo important to the issue that I’ll have to instantly change my mind.

    Not.

    What a stupid non sequitur, geoff. Going for the goalposts of irrelevance.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  123. I don’t care so much about the location. I don’t think its at ground zero though. As I read about this guy, he doesn’t sound so bad, might even be trying to do something good. For a religious guy, of course. I’m a bit more secular than most. So it would be a shame if all this freakout drove him away. I could think of more fun things to do with a building than turn it into a religously based community center, but its not up to me. And I’ll probably never even walk by it.

    geoff (8bb588)

  124. #122 daleyrocks:

    It’s a little tough to tell when you don’t actually take a position on anything.

    Oh, I dunno. Looks like he got one there in the middle of the fence.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  125. I don’t care so much about the location. I don’t think its at ground zero though. As I read about this guy, he doesn’t sound so bad, might even be trying to do something good. For a religious guy, of course. I’m a bit more secular than most. So it would be a shame if all this freakout drove him away. I could think of more fun things to do with a building than turn it into a religously based community center, but its not up to me. And I’ll probably never even walk by it.

    “What a stupid non sequitur, geoff. Going for the goalposts of irrelevance.”

    This is straight from foxnews my friend. If you don’t care that a foundation that funds madrasses funds this dude, then more power to you.

    geoff (8bb588)

  126. The location doesn’t freak me out. I don’t think its at ground zero though. As I read about this guy, he doesn’t sound so bad, might even be trying to do something good. For a religious guy, of course. I’m a bit more secular than just about anyone with a congregation. So it would be a shame if all this freakout drove him away and put a stop to this. I could think of more fun things to do with a building than turn it into a religously based community center, but its not up to me. And I’ll probably never even walk by it. Though I will get to live in a country where people engage in group blame against muslims. And that sucks, of course.

    “What a stupid non sequitur, geoff. Going for the goalposts of irrelevance.”

    This is straight from foxnews my friend. If you don’t care that a foundation that funds madrasses funds this dude, then more power to you.

    geoff (ae4d0b)

  127. Geoff

    > Hey I’m just following the money

    You retard. none of his money went to fox unless he purchased the shares in an IPO.

    As for the location not bothering you, yes, we know. you don’t care about 9-11. you have no problem with a president busy surrendering to our enemies, in the hopes we will appease them. We get that.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  128. Here’s the sort of incompetent nitwit Mr. Hopey Changey has riddled his administration with… John Brennan, Counter-Terrorism Advisor:

    TWT: You mentioned jihad, for example, and would you agree with the lesser and greater and lesser jihad framework? I mean, that’s pretty standard.

    BRENNAN: Sure, it is…absolutely.

    TWT: Can you give me an example of a jihad in history? Like, has there ever been a jihad…an armed jihad anywhere in history? Has it ever existed for real, or is it just a concept?

    BRENNAN: Absolutely it has.

    TWT: Example?

    BRENNAN: I’m not going to go into this sort of history discussion here.

    TWT: But it’s important to frame the concept, because we want to say that what al-Qaeda is doing is not jihad. They say it is, and Abdul Azzam has said, in fact, ‘there’s not even a greater jihad.’ That that’s just a myth–that hadith didn’t even really happen. That there’s only armed jihad. Ayatollah Khomeini said ‘there is only armed jihad, and it would be useful to be able to characterize or to contrast what they’re doing and what they claim against a legitimate armed jihad in the past.

    BRENNAN: I think we’ve finished. I have to get going.

    ColonelHaiku (60a24c)

  129. When you read the many comments made by Imam Feisel Abdul Rauf, it’s fascinating how well his sentiments align with the canon of left-wing elitist thought in the West. His 2005 address in Australia is a textbook example of playing on the heroic guilt perpetually assumed by the Western left and their masochistic, apologetic kowtowing.

    Of Islam, Rauf says the following:

    ” From the point of view of Islamic theology, Islamic jurisprudence and Islamic history, the vast majority of Islamic history, it has been shaped or defined by a notion of multiculturalism and multireligiosity, if you might use that term.”

    The point is not whether this is true or false; the point is that Rauf chooses to make his case in these button-pushing terms. He is also perfectly aligned with the Western left in his take on Israel and the Palestinian Arabs. In his view:

    “A resolution of the Arab-Israeli conflict is number one on the list of things that need to be done because you address this problem and a whole host of problems will be addressed automatically.”

    But Rauf goes on to frame the Israeli role with prejudice. “Israelis,” Rauf says, “have moved beyond Zionism.”

    The U.S. media – including Newsweek – have nonchalantly framed the debate over the Ground Zero mosque as a case of Middle America versus Islam, but in a very real sense, as others have noted, it’s a case of Middle America’s opposition to our leftist cultural elite. In that sense, it almost doesn’t matter what Imam Rauf “really” believes or intends. What matters is that he tailors his appeals to a Western cultural elite from which Middle America is decisively alienated.

    There are many reasons why 70% of Americans – including the majority of New Yorkers – oppose the construction of the mosque AT THIS SITE. But it’s very telling that the average American’s perception is that our cultural elite is – once again – ridiculing and abusing the American people for not buying into its narrative of culpability and the resulting self-abnegation that has no constructive purpose.

    ColonelHaiku (60a24c)

  130. Though I will get to live in a country where people engage in group blame against muslims. And that sucks, of course.

    You may leave anytime you wish.

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  131. That sucks too.

    geoff (4ef30d)

  132. Shorter geoff – I am the great tolerant one and you are racist xenophobic wingers. And Fox. That is all.

    JD (3dc31c)

  133. #128 Dmac: So much drivel, so little time…I had missed that nugget of … unfaithfulness. Rather than observe that he has a right to leave, I don’t mind cordially extending an invitation for him to.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  134. “For a religious guy, of course.”

    geoff – That’s sort of the point isn’t it. Islam is a religion. Too it’s fervent believers it’s a way of life – no separation between church and state. Maybe you overlooked those parts.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  135. Imam Abdur-Rauf is right when he says US has more blood on their hands than Al-Qaeda. Dozens of Thousands have been killed in Afghanistan and Pakistan in this so called ‘collateral damage’. Now, what is the damage at the US side? nothing!!! But Pakistan is an ally of US these days right? But this collateral damage took lives of thousand innocent civilians of Pakistan. Now, ok, US citizens’ blood might be twice more important than Pakistani’s blood, even then the sep 11 casualties in america were 5000 at max, but in Pakistan only the casualties are more than 10,000. Let aside the collateral damage done in Iraq and Afghanistan…

    Aurangzeb
    http://takht-e-Sulaiman.eseaf.com

    Aurangzeb (64228e)

  136. Go feck yourself.

    JD (3dc31c)

  137. “Maybe you overlooked those parts.”

    Nope.

    geoff (de7003)

  138. Instapundit should bring action against anyone on the internet that uses Insta- or -pundit. And geoff is a mendoucheous twatwaffle. That is all.

    JD (3dc31c)

  139. “Nope.”

    geoff – I think the above is actually the answer to the question of whether you have a point.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  140. #133, When I read what you wrote a part of me thinks it would be just deserts to have a KKK Skin Head moron detonate a bomb in mecca during Friday prayers.

    That way, we can finally have a discussion of what is the difference between “War” and “Terrorism.”

    In so far as terrorists with blood on their hand — we have a long way to go to catch up to what Islamists have done to the West, as well as, in their own countries.

    In so far as “collateral damage” the USA causes, go talk to the Vets of the Iran Iraq war and tally up some numbers. Add in those wacky Packyies and their constant provocation of India plus their wars.

    I am sure we fight much nicer.

    HeavenSent (e230a5)

  141. two more posts at my blog.

    One, more questionable comments by the ground zero imam. and this time its not something a lefty would say! (I think they wouldn’t i mean.)

    http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2010/08/about-that-moderate-ground-zero-imam.html

    And another anti-muslim bigot speaks.

    http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2010/08/another-intolerant-anti-muslim-bigot.html

    Oh, and i previously mentioned here, anti-semitism in the pro-mosque reality. Wow, who could have seen that coming?

    http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2010/08/it-would-be-cheap-and-unfair.html

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  142. Rather than observe that he has a right to leave, I don’t mind cordially extending an invitation for him to.

    Like the swallows returning to Capristrano, the village idiot never fails to grasp the irony inherent within it’s own screechings. I don’t mind the occasional Troll, as long as it’s witty and has something worthwhile to say, even though I may not agree. But it’s always the same MO – constructing strawmen, arguing points that only it imagined, then finally whining about how unfair it is that the country of it’s birth doesn’t agree with it’s morally – superior contentions. They can leave anytime they wish, but what other country on earth would welcome these bed – wetters?

    Dmac (d61c0d)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.8256 secs.