The Rachel Corrie
[Guest post by DRJ]
The Free Gaza Movement plans to try again Saturday to break the Israeli blockade. Le-gal In-sur-rec-tion has more on the Free Gaza Movement’s ship, the Rachel Corrie:
“The MV Rachel Corrie is a cargo ship named after an American anti-Israeli activist (photo right burning a mock U.S. flag) killed while trying to prevent Israeli bulldozers from operating in Gaza in 2003.
The Free Gaza movement operating the ship has announced that it will not stop if approached by Israeli ships, even though the Israelis offered to have the supplies transported by land to Gaza, setting up another confrontation at sea.
While it was rumored that Turkey would send a warship to escort the ship, creating the likelihood of a military clash, I have seen no confirmation of that.
Nonetheless, the increasing level of insult being hurled by the Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan at Israel indicates that further confrontations are coming. Having created the crisis, Erdogan is stoking it for political gain at home and abroad.”
The links say the Rachel Corrie will reach Gaza sometime Saturday. As I post this, it is just after Midnight on Saturday morning in Gaza. (Here is a link to the current time in Gaza.)
We may be just hours away from another confrontation.
— DRJ
Turkey has a three-part government. The Parliament/Prime Minister, the President, and the military. The Parliament/Prime Minister are now devout Muslims. The President and the military are dedicated to keeping Turkey a secular state and they are now the stronger partners. If this stupid move by this thirty-pound monkey (Israel) which thinks it’s an eight-hundred pound gorilla upsets the balance of Turkey’s internal politics, Turkey, a NATO ally, could go into the jihad camp.
nk (db4a41) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:18 pmWell, I read earlier (NRO or Contentions, I think) that the problem with Turkey is that while its military is mostly secular and has cooperated with Israel in the past, its government is becoming more and more Islamist and militant. In that sense, they are the anti-Pakistan, though the end result is just as bad. Hopefully this means that the Turkish Navy does not plan to escort this cargo ship.
JVW (36eb17) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:18 pmAh, nk had the same reaction that I did.
JVW (36eb17) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:19 pmWell, its typical of nk’s distortion of events to label the incident a “stupid move” of Israel when it is Turkey that is the origin of the provocations themselves.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:23 pmPerhaps it is time for an “international” “humanitarian” group to send “humanitarian” aid to the Kurds in northern Iraq – aid which matches that cargo found on the Mavi Marmara – after all, how could Turkey complain about a shipment of such “humanitarian” aid ?
Alasdair (e7cb73) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:29 pmThere was a way that Israel, a military partner of Turkey, could have gotten the shipments inspected and sealed at the point of departure, by Turkish/Israeli teams and tracked them to their destination.
And I don’t want to label all of Israel as stupid, but I strongly suspect that Nethanyahu is playing to the ultra-militarist fringes of his coallition for political purposes.
nk (db4a41) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:30 pmComment by SPQR — 6/4/2010 @ 2:23 pm
nk has Israel derangement syndrome. Apparently they’re supposed to not defend themselves in order to not affect another country’s internal politics.
The only thing more idiotic would be to say that Israel is going to make Hamas militant with their actions. Or maybe that Israel’s blockade is worsening global warming. Maybe he’ll say that next.
Gerald A (a66d02) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:30 pmi just think, if i was isreal, i would say “f— restraint. we are going to be the bad guys no matter what. so let’s kick ass.” they haven’t exact incentivised good behavior, given that no matter what they do the world condemns them. i mean i guess if they all went jonestown, the world might finally praise them.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:32 pmThat would just give Obama the cover he needs to cut Israel completely loose.
DRJ (d43dcd) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:35 pmThat would be fine if Israel were a self-sustainable country.
nk (db4a41) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:35 pmNK is delusional when he claims that there was a way Israel “could have gotten the shipments inspected and sealed at the point of departure”; why does he imagine Turkey would cooperate? Turkey has not been Israel’s friend, let alone partner, for several years now, ever since Erdogan took over. On the contrary, it has been openly hostile, and even openly antisemitic. Israel is supposed to sit back and be slapped in the face repeatedly by the Turks, in the name of “friendship”?! If this is friendship, what does enmity look like?
If a Turkish naval vessel escorts this blockade-runner it will be an act of war against Israel, and NATO will not back Turkey.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:41 pmIts all Israel’s fault that the Turkish flotilla, intended to force the blockade, wasn’t inspected in Turkey by Israel?
nk, you are becoming more divorced from reality with these incoherent comments.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:41 pmnk,
How could we let the Jews become the world’s target again?
DRJ (d43dcd) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:42 pmI don’t have anything against Israel. Just against their really weird parliamentary system which seems to put nutcases in charge. Nutcases who could not even wipe their own behinds without American supplied toilet paper.
nk (db4a41) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:43 pmnk, your comments belie your claim quite clearly. Your comments show an utter lack of rationality about Israel.
You refer to Israel’s leadership as “nutcases” ignoring evidently the extreme irony of the comparison to Erdogan / Turkey and its history.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:48 pmI don’t have any problem with nk, just that I don’t want anyone who thinks like him to live within 500 miles of anyone in my family. Because nk is a certifiable nutcase who couldn’t wipe his own behind without someone helping him.
John Hitchcock (9e8ad9) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:50 pmWarn by radio. Warn by bullhorn. Put a shot across the bows.
Then fire for effect.
Frank Drebbin (8096f2) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:53 pmStill waiting for that Armageddon, hey John?
Turkey is the strongest military power, in real terms, in that region. In particular, it could go through Syria like a bad taco through a gringo’s colon were Syria to attack Israel. For Netanyahu to be so oblivious to the importance of the Israeli-Turkish alliance and the internal politics of his ally is insane.
nk (db4a41) — 6/4/2010 @ 2:59 pm13.nk,
How could we let the Jews become the world’s target again?
Comment by DRJ — 6/4/2010 @ 2:42 pm
I think what made Israel lose all credibility for me in this incident, DRJ, was an Israeli official using the word “lynching” in describing the passengers’ self-defense against the Israeli commandos.
nk (db4a41) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:10 pmWould you change your mind if you were convinced that it was a set-up by the people on the ship?
DRJ (d43dcd) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:12 pm“…describing the passengers’ self-defense against the Israeli commandos…”
Facts have nothing to do with nk’s comments, DRJ. Zero.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:15 pmThe Rachel Corrie people have rejected an offer from the Irish government (agreed to by the Israelis) to check, unload and ship the contents to Gaza. The Free Gaza Movement also reportedly told the Irish that they would not resist the Israelis if they try to board the Rachel Corrie.
We’ll see.
DRJ (d43dcd) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:16 pmThe Jerusalem Post reports that Turkey’s ambassador to the U.S. said Turkey will break its relations with Israel unless Israel agrees to apologize, accept an international investigation, and end the Gaza blockade. If this is true, Turkey will sever its diplomatic relations with Israel because Israel could never agree to end the blockade. I hope this is more rhetoric than truth.
DRJ (d43dcd) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:21 pm“self-defense”
heh
Lord Nazh (821ae1) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:25 pmDRJ, that’s the whole point of the flotilla, to give Turkey’s Erdogan government an excuse for demonizing Israel.
This is why comments like nk’s are so ridiculous, because they invert reality and interchange cause and effect in such irrational ways.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:26 pmThese are my facts, SPQR.
1. Ship in international waters;
2. Passengers armed with knives and sticks;
3. Superbly trained commandos, armed with the finest of American provided weaponry, dropping in on them from military helicopters to take over their ship and take them prisoners.
Contradict one.
nk (db4a41) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:26 pmnk,
1. declared blockade against a region with which Israel is in armed conflict – which the flotilla’s intended to circumvent.
2. Passengers armed by your admission – that fact cuts against you.
3. Commandos were initially armed with non-lethal weapons.
Your “facts” aren’t.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:28 pm“For Netanyahu to be so oblivious to the importance of the Israeli-Turkish alliance and the internal politics of his ally is insane.”
nk – No evidence is present that Netanyahu is oblivious to the importance of that relationship when your anger is derived from the words of another official using the words lynching. Clearly Turkey set up an incident to provoke Israel and got what they wanted. If Turkey had actually wanted to deliver aid to Gaza, there are established ways to do it. Criticizing Israel for defending itself in this instance is overt stupidity. You are crossing into Andrew Sullivan territory lately.
daleyrocks (1d0d98) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:29 pm“Superbly trained commandos, armed with the finest of American provided weaponry”
nk – Were the paint ball guns American made?
daleyrocks (1d0d98) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:31 pmRalph Peters lays it out in small words for nk.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:33 pm“was an Israeli official using the word “lynching” in describing the passengers’ self-defense against the Israeli commandos.”
nk – I was impressed that a number of the “peaceful” travelers made martyrdom videos in advance of the cruise. Those are usually all about self-defense, plus they brought along some of their own weapons, explaining the shell casings belonging to weapons not used by Israelis.
Plus the international waters bit does not mean squat for a widely announced and widely known blockade, but you already know that.
Are you getting an RSS feed straight from Hamas?
daleyrocks (1d0d98) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:39 pmSigh. Peters says many of the same things I did, SPQR. If Erdogan gains dominance over the President and military because of this incident ….
nk (db4a41) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:41 pm“Many” of the same things, nk?
You really are delusional. Peters points out that this stunt was planned in Turkey, by Turkey’s government. You blame Israel for it. Peters points out that Erdogan has been successfully supplanting the secular military for years. You act like it will only happen because of Israel.
That’s “many of the same things” in your mind? Bizarre. Truly irrational.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:46 pmOn a planet where the closest game analog to international politics is Go (wei ch’i), our president plays Go Fish.
htom (412a17) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:46 pmnk – Sigh. Do you think Hamas is a terrorist organization? Does Erdogan? What are the real conditions inside Gaza and who is most responsible?
daleyrocks (1d0d98) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:50 pmSPQR,
The Muslim leaders may prevail over the secularists in Turkey but I’m still hopeful this is mostly posturing.
DRJ (d43dcd) — 6/4/2010 @ 3:52 pmnk – If you’re talking about Ralph Peters, he contradicts you rather soundly. He blames Turkey and its moves toward a muslim society for provoking a deliberate confrontation and the West for buying into the propaganda.
“Yesterday’s “aid convoy” incident off the coast of Gaza wasn’t about bringing humanitarian supplies to the terrorist-ruled territory. It wasn’t even about Israel.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/turkish_blood_bath_Jean7yjj5Salz75brRSsMJ
It was about Turkey’s determination to position itself as the leading Muslim state in the Middle East.
Three ships of that six-ship pro-terror convoy flew Turkish flags and were crowded with Turkish citizens. The Ankara government — led by Islamists these days — sponsored the “aid” operation in a move to position itself as the new champion of the Palestinians.
And Turkish decision-makers knew Israel would have to react — and were waiting to exploit the inevitable clash. The provocation was as cynical as it was carefully orchestrated.
The lead vessel, the Mavi Marmara, just happened to have an al-Jazeera TV crew on board to film Israel’s response. Ironically, the early videos would’ve been counterproductive, had world leaders and journalists not been programmed to blame everything on Israel.
Those videos showed Israeli commandos rappelling onto the ship with both hands on the rope (making it rather hard to use a weapon), yet activists claimed the Israelis opened fire as they descended.
Purely by coincidence, dozens of “peace activists” waited with sharpened iron bars, clubs, slingshots — and rifles. Of course, the nine dead in the melee were all Israel’s victims.
The first wave of Israeli commandos reportedly were armed only with paintball rounds for crowd control. Inspect those videos of maddened peaceniks assaulting the soldiers as they landed on deck. You don’t see any Israelis pointing rifles — they’re fending off blows.”
daleyrocks (1d0d98) — 6/4/2010 @ 4:00 pmLast I looked, the “MV Rachel Corrie” was back in dock having security cameras installed with rumours that the Israelis had sabotaged the ship.
Neo (7830e6) — 6/4/2010 @ 4:14 pmnk keeps ignoring the fact that Erdogan is already in control. The military was restrained from playing its traditional role for fear of EU sanctions, so Erdogan, the democratically elected prime minister, was allowed to take over; he has now planted his loyalists in the military, so no help can be expected from that quarter. And the president has no say in the matter.
Turkey showed its true colours by screwing the USA on the eve of the invasion of Iraq, and it’s been showing open hostility to Israel for at least a year now. Turkish TV shows blatantly antisemitic programs. Jews in Turkey are afraid to go outside: http://www.col.org.il/show_news.rtx?artID=55143 (The chief rabbi issued a statement that sounds exactly like one made by a hostage with a gun to his head.)
Milhouse (1448a4) — 6/4/2010 @ 4:16 pmHey folks,
Got some news for ya!
your boy Glenn Beck is promoting the work of an infamous nazi advocate.
Yup! Glenn Beck is encouraging his audience to consume the work of Elizabeth Dilling, a fav of neo-nazi groups all across America and Europe.
What do you think Breitbart would say about the fact that his principle media-backer is encouraging people to buy, study and celebrate the work of a bona-fide nazi who remains beloved by aryan militants world-wide?
Its hard to say which is more explicit about dilling… her hatred of Jewish people, or her love for Hitler.
Anyhow, this is where all of that anger has brought your leader; to the open and frank admission that he is, indeed, an honest-to-god neo-nazi.
Well, Mr. coked-up nazi-tourettes has given you guys a fresh, new and extra nasty spill to clean up…. better get to it, an git er dun!!!!
LuvyBuns (59694d) — 6/4/2010 @ 4:16 pmTroll.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/4/2010 @ 4:23 pmAlthough I completely disagree with NK’s analysis with regard to Israel, he is correct about the strength of the Turkish military. Its Army is one of the toughest in the world.
The thought of them changing from secular to Muslim Radical would be… a bad thing. In the Mid East, Muslims armies are inept (they are good at killing unarmed people, but not at waging war against an armed foe with adequate resources).
The Turks are a whole different ballgame.
Pons Asinorum (96abf4) — 6/4/2010 @ 4:24 pmWho is LuvyBuns?
DRJ (d43dcd) — 6/4/2010 @ 4:24 pmI’m gonna go out on a limb but…
…another liberal who makes assertions without proof or sourcing in an effort to change the focus of the President’s inadequate leadership and instead point to a TV host?
Pons Asinorum (96abf4) — 6/4/2010 @ 4:33 pmYeah, but I think DRJ and I taste a familiar troll.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/4/2010 @ 4:37 pmSpeaking of tourette’s, thanks for giving us a demonstration. And FYI Glenn Beck isn’t anybody’s leader. Though I’m not about to take your word about this Dilling woman; I’ve never heard of her, but your telling me that she’s a Nazi creates at least a rebuttable presumption that she’s nothing of the kind, and is probably worth reading.
Milhouse (1448a4) — 6/4/2010 @ 4:37 pmPS: OK, Dilling was definitely a Coughlinite, and a Nazi sympathiser. But Beck didn’t “encouraging his audience” to “consume” her work, he mentioned one book that he had read, listing the communist agents active in America in the 1930s. Did Beck know who the author was, and her history? I have no idea. Supposing he knew, should he have refrained from quoting it? Surely that depends on whether the book is inaccurate. Just because Dilling was an antisemite doesn’t mean she was wrong about the Communists, does it?
Milhouse (1448a4) — 6/4/2010 @ 4:47 pmI’m not sure that Glenn Beck has ever been the topic of conversation by anyone but trolls in any post I’ve read at this site. Strange to bring him up, but that’s the nature of trolls, I guess.
What would be the result if Israel were to board the Rachel Corrie, remove the crew and passengers to waiting vessels, and then sink the ship? Some economic hardship for the backers of this adventurism wouldn’t be amiss.
Pious Agnostic (b2c3ab) — 6/4/2010 @ 4:58 pmMilhouse – It looks like Luvy lifted that info from a post at Media Matters. SURPRISE. The clip posted there just has Beck saying he started reading a book a listener sent in and him remarking that McCarthy was right. He talks about the book, written in the 1930s pointing to communists fronts in America, among the biggest being unions and teachers, including the newly formed NEA. Beck remarked on how everything mentioned had gone mainstream.
I agree, he didn’t recommend the book. The premise of the post is that Beck didn’t research the author. BFD. He mentioned it along with other books listeners sent in. Another unfounded Media Matters hatchet job. No surprise.
daleyrocks (1d0d98) — 6/4/2010 @ 5:09 pmPious Agnostic — heh, but it would end-up costing us. I can already see the President in a bowed posture apologizing and paying whatever liberal/terrorist group that owns the boat.
Pons Asinorum (96abf4) — 6/4/2010 @ 5:12 pmnk has Israel derangement syndrome.
That condition is a variation of Bleeding Heart Syndrome. That’s where a person (often a liberal) sheds tears for a thief or murderer under the ass-backwards assumption that the bad guy is somehow a victim of circumstances—eg, a lack of after-school programs, mean parents, a heartless welfare system, imperialistic/capitalistic-driven poverty, underfunded public schools, etc.
Worse of all, the sufferer of BHS has a tough time feeling as much, or any, pity for the criminal’s victim(s).
It’s a twisted, distorted sense of who’s the underdog (or good guy, or person or thing deserving of sympathy) and who’s the top dog (or person or thing not deserving of sympathy). So in the eyes of the bleeding heart, Israel is the crime victim (or the cruel system that’s been foisted upon the sad, dejected felon), and its opponents are the sad, dejected souls — particularly helpful if they’re associated with the sad, dejected Third World — forced into a life of crime.
I wouldn’t be as bothered by such people (hello, Helen Thomas!) if they were honest enough to admit their philosophy actually is not driven by goodness or kindness, but by an inhumane, non-compassionate mentality.
Mark (411533) — 6/4/2010 @ 5:20 pmThey should’ve christened it the SS Pancake.
GeneralMalaise (8de279) — 6/4/2010 @ 5:27 pmNk – the picture you’ve been painting of yourself recently is quite illuminating. Intolerant, jumping to conclusions when all the facts aren’t in, and now the Jew – baiting. Do us all a favor and take a long vacation from the blog for awhile, you’re already firmly in Troll territory. One more step and your new nickname’s going to be Himmler.
Dmac (3d61d9) — 6/4/2010 @ 5:57 pmnk-
Have you watched the videos? The first IDF to land on the boat gets beaten and thrown over the top deck. Had they intended a show of force they would have come down with assault rifles at the ready. I have read that the shooting didn’t start until the last of 15 commandos hit the deck, at which point he saw several Israelis already down and one of the peace activists pointing a handgun, taken from one of the down IDF, at the head of another soldier; that’s when he took out his handgun and started shooting and organizing the commandos in a semi-circle to protect those already down.
This boat was one of 5 or 6, correct? And the others were borded without incident, correct?
This embargo of Gaza is also enforced by Egypt, correct?
I stand by what I wrote the other day, that I wanted the Israelis to show the film to the world (it ended up being at the European Parliament, not the UN) and see who was still condemning Israel afterwards. Well, they all did, which in my mind means they are all on the side of the barbarians, not the civilized.
If I was Israel I don’t know what country, if any, I would trust to inspect a ship headed to Gaza to confirm no weapons, including the US under present command.
So, if Israel doesn’t defend itself it gets treated to an unending barage of rocket attacks. If it does, it gets blamed for causing trouble. The message is pretty clear, as long as there is an Israel there will be a problem. All who are in favor of solving the problem by eliminating Israel stand on one side of the room, all for protecting the existence of the sovereign nation of Israel stand on the other. The barbarians far outnumber the civilized.
As someone said on another thread, if one takes away all weaponry from the Arabs and other anti-Israel groups in the Middle East, we would have no more fighting. Take away all weaponry from Israel, and there would be no more Jews.
I am waiting for the political cartoon showing the Holocaust Museum with the sign showing “Once
MD in Philly (cb8efe) — 6/4/2010 @ 5:58 pmNeverAgain”Nk – the picture you’ve been painting of yourself recently is quite illuminating. Intolerant, jumping to conclusions when all the facts aren’t in, and now the Jew – baiting. Do us all a favor and take a long vacation from the blog for awhile, you’re already firmly in Troll territory. One more step and your new nickname’s going to be Himmler.
Comment by Dmac — 6/4/2010 @ 5:57 pm
What Jew-baiting, asshole?
nk (db4a41) — 6/4/2010 @ 6:06 pmIf I’m not Netanyahu’s handmaiden, I’m an anti-Semite? Go fuck yourself.
nk (db4a41) — 6/4/2010 @ 6:09 pmnk, you don’t like it? I’m looking forward to a better explanation for your holding of opinions in defiance of facts, and reality.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/4/2010 @ 6:21 pmDon’t like what? Being labeled an anti-Semite for criticizing Israel’s government? Well, yes. But I can take it. And you can all go and worship Bibi’s picture as far as I’m concerned.
It’s a fact that there is much more tolerance of criticism of Israel’s government in Israel than there is in America.
nk (db4a41) — 6/4/2010 @ 6:27 pmnk – If you presented facts instead of fantasy your criticism might be better received.
daleyrocks (1d0d98) — 6/4/2010 @ 6:33 pmA good guess might be Excitable Andy, the ghoul who dreams about being in Palin’s “garden”.
Old Coot (f722a6) — 6/4/2010 @ 6:42 pmnk – Do you think Hamas is a terrorist organization?
daleyrocks (1d0d98) — 6/4/2010 @ 7:00 pmnk – Do you think Hamas is a terrorist organization?
Comment by daleyrocks — 6/4/2010 @ 7:00 pm
Yes.
And here’s a question for you: If Cuba were to impose a blockade on the United States, should the passengers on the ships coming to our shores “lynch” their commandos?
nk (db4a41) — 6/4/2010 @ 7:07 pmThose Troublesome Jews … yep, its all their fault.
Meanwhile, nk seems to excuse Turkey, currently run by an islamist party, for its attempt to undermine Israel’s security by breaking a blockade of a terrorist organization dedicated to Israel’s destruction. And prefers Turkey’s view of “humanitarian” conduct, something that Turkey is obviously so expert at, given its treatment of the Kurdish people’s within it.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/4/2010 @ 7:08 pmnk, that’s a stupid question. If Cuba and the United States were engaged in an armed conflict, then attempts to run a blockade either direction can expect to be subject to force.
Your belief in the opposite is simple irrationality.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/4/2010 @ 7:10 pmIf I was Israel, I’d sic the Somali Pirates on the Good Ship Saint Pancake. Or make sure that it runs into other trouble at sea and has to call on Israel for rescue. Hints: Rudders are weak points, easily knocked away by running into a semi-submerged container *cough sub cough*, or propellers can get snarled up in drifting lines or nets, engine intakes can become plugged by floating debris . . . No need to sink them.
starboardhelm (94c0da) — 6/4/2010 @ 7:13 pmA little more decorum, NK, please?
GeneralMalaise (8de279) — 6/4/2010 @ 7:36 pmYour belief in the opposite is simple irrationality.
But his heart is in the right place [snicker and rolls eyes].
Mark (411533) — 6/4/2010 @ 7:37 pmIt simply is irrationality for nk to assert that the activists on the flotilla could both claim to be non-combatants and engage in force to resist boarding of the ship.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/4/2010 @ 7:43 pmKnives and sticks? Are you joking? Did you see the inventory of “knives and sticks” they were sporting?
SPC Jack Klompus (ab3f97) — 6/4/2010 @ 7:50 pmStarboardhelm — not a bad idea, probably save lives and Israel has done stuff like this before.
IIRC, way before Desert Storm (maybe the 70’s ??), several Mid East nations were attempting to develop or obtain nuclear warheads (with more than a little help from France — ironically the French also helped Israel develop their nukes). One-by-one the engineers and technicians involved with the projects sorta had various “Come To Jesus” moments (via strange letters, dead pets, the occasional letter bomb).In addition, the supply stream from France was plagued with problems.
Eventually, each nation gave up except for Iraq. They actually built reactors and which were subsequently destroyed by the Israeli Air Force (in the 80’s ?).
Problem solved for at least two decades, makes one wonder how many lives were saved by those events which prevented those Muslim nations from achieving the Bomb.
(PS: the preview feature is not working for me — is it just my machine?.)
Pons Asinorum (0ae484) — 6/4/2010 @ 7:50 pmDRJ, I think it’s The Emperor, aka love2008. Just a guess on my part.
Some chump (967a70) — 6/4/2010 @ 7:58 pm“If Cuba were to impose a blockade on the United States, should the passengers on the ships coming to our shores “lynch” their commandos?”
nk – In your hypothetical, if people were trying to arrange a shipment of humanitarian aid to the U.S. through a Cuban blockade, they should make arrangements in advance with Cuba or abide by its instructions peacefully upon reaching the blockade area. That is what normal rules are under international law. One of the most influential muslim clerics in Turkey said his country blew it with their deliberate approach to invite a conflict since it was apparent their purpose was not to get aid to Gaza. His organization has gotten numerous shipments through by utilizing normal channels.
daleyrocks (1d0d98) — 6/4/2010 @ 8:01 pmI heard the Isrealis have created a giant floating tank, and they are going to run over their ship with it.
sorry to joke, but sometimes its how i express my anger. the name of the ship is appropriate. Corrie died making herself a human shield for terrorism. she died defending evil, and now in death she will be used as propoganda for evil, much as her actual death was.
A.W. (f97997) — 6/4/2010 @ 8:06 pmAt the first link in DRJ’s post is an embedded You-tube video of Helen Thomas —
Scare-eeeee!
Pons Asinorum (0ae484) — 6/4/2010 @ 8:15 pmSymbolically, all Israel has to do to deflect this latest attempt to run the blockade, is to put to sea with a barge carrying a CAT-D9!
AD - RtR/OS! (776222) — 6/4/2010 @ 8:50 pmWell, not sure if you saw my post nk, and whether your example re the US and Cuba was a response.
I must say, knowing that Israel has had to fight multiple wars for its existence against incredible odds, that the “Palestinian refugee crisis” began as a result of the Arab attack on Israel, that those who should have been helping the Palestinians have chosen instead to foment hatred and poverty, that even when Israel gives back land the Palestinians destroy valuable assets out of spite rather than make use of them, and have never pledged agreement that Israel has the right to exist, I end up being a bit prejudiced as to who I think is worthy of blame.
Gaza is under a blockade to prevent weapons shipments, correct? Egypt is a partner in the embargo, correct? Has Israel ever prevented the delivery of humanitarian aid? If so I’m eager to learn of it.
So we have a group of people who are not so much interested in seeing that humanitarian supplies get to Gaza, but that the blockade is broken; and Turkey, who is supposed to be an ally tacitly if not actively gives support to the effort.
Unless there are facts that I’m missing, Israel is being asked to commit slow suicide by allowing unregulated weapons shipments onto its back doorstep, or getting involved in confrontations that give the liars of the world opportunity to spread more propaganda.
When Israel becomes convinced that no other country on earth will stand up for their defense, what do we expect them to do? Disband the IDF and give up national sovereignty? Get out the grape Kool-aide and do a massive Jonestown? Prepare themselves to “go down swinging and take as many with them” as they can? Hopefully we can go 2 years without all hell breaking loose and get Obama replaced first, but if the world, including our own administration, can look at the videos of this episode and condemn Israel, I’m not real confident that will happen (in which case college plans for our 9 year old will probably not be necessary).
It’s sad and frightening to think that the most logical move Israel could make might be to declare how many nuclear warheads they have, where they are aimed, and ask if any one doesn’t believe them and wants a demonstration. Maybe not “Mutually Assured Destruction” (MAD), but “Assured Destruction” at least.
Is there any country that strongly supports Israel, even if no substantive support can be given? The Czech Republic?, The Ukraine?, Georgia?
MD in Philly (cb8efe) — 6/4/2010 @ 9:00 pmComment by Pons Asinorum — 6/4/2010 @ 8:15 pm
Pons, she is a hateful, horrible woman who later apologized for the comment but I’m not buying. Out of her mouth came exactly what dwells in her heart. If she were truly remorseful, she would have publicly addressed the Jews themselves and apologized specifically to them, not some generic “regarding Israelis and Palestinians “(whom she said nothing hateful about). No sell.
In a written statement issued Friday, Thomas apologized, saying, “I deeply regret my comments I made last week regarding the Israelis and the Palestinians.”
She said the comments “do not reflect” her “heart-felt belief that peace will come to the Middle East only when all parties recognize the need for mutual respect and tolerance.”
“May that day come soon,” she added.
Dana (1e5ad4) — 6/4/2010 @ 9:01 pmAs we all know, there are times when words matter more than after-the-fact protestations of intent. What Helen Thomas said was one of those times.
DRJ (d43dcd) — 6/4/2010 @ 9:22 pmI just looked at the initial link. It is amazing that someone can be so ignorant as to tell people in Israel to “go back home to Germany and to Poland”, claiming Israelis are “occupiers”, as if the area was prosperous and desirable prior to 194_ and the Jewish people forced non-Jews off of the land, and even worse, such a person is viewed with respect.
Also at the link was the audio of the “humanitarian aid workers” telling the Israeli Navy to “go back to Auschwitz” and they are “fighting against the US and to remember 9/11”. Yes, very cordial humanitarian aid workers.
MD in Philly (cb8efe) — 6/4/2010 @ 9:38 pmDana, DRJ, and MD — Totally agree. Helen Thomas is a true believer in hatred (whether she realizes it or not).
Not one call for her resignation by the White House Press Corp. Nothing.
I guess bigotry and hatred now go hand-in-hand with liberal philosophy, as long as such hatred is directed against Jewish People.
Pons Asinorum (0ae484) — 6/4/2010 @ 10:45 pmnk (aka “not knowing”) approves of Helen Thomas and her remarks. See above.
Dmac (3d61d9) — 6/5/2010 @ 9:10 amHelen Thomas is a true believer in hatred (whether she realizes it or not).
Pons, she realizes it but doesn’t care because she knows the majority of the world feels the same way she does. Therefore the mass approval makes it acceptable because hating evil is morally right.
I cut her no slack because she’s been involved in media for almost 60 years and is well informed and tuned in to how things appear on camera and in print, and what spewed out of her mouth was indeed the hatred within. It’s stunning she chuckled after her first “The Jews should get the hell out of Palestine” comment, and then when further questioned, showing absolutely no shock at what just came out of her mouth, no hand flew up to her mouth to stifle herself, but rather she freely and fully then explained upon further questioning where she thought they should go. But the most stunning bit of all was that she knew this was the White House’s Jewish Heritage Celebration!
She’s a hater who should be immediately fired and excluded from the WH press corps. If Rand Paul faced a firestorm for his dumb and clumsy attempt to reason out his political philosophy of civil rights, Thomas should be fired and shunned for her publicly admitting of bigotry and antisemitism.
Dana (1e5ad4) — 6/5/2010 @ 9:51 amtesting
Dmac (3d61d9) — 6/5/2010 @ 11:37 amI read a comment somewhere, not sure where, which wondered just what would have happened had the lovely Miss Thomas said that blacks should all just go home to Africa.
The Dana who notices these things (474dfc) — 6/6/2010 @ 2:40 amOur windy city barrister correctly, if somewhat profanely and angrily, points out that disagreeing with Israel’s leadership does not make one an anti-Semite. I happen to agree with the Israeli blockade, but that doesn’t mean that Israel played this one smartly or well.
It should have been announced, clearly, that these ships could continue to proceed in international waters, but that unless they agreed to be inspected, they would be sunk once they passed the twelve-mile limit. And if the ships proceeded, then the Israelis should have sunk them, period.
That would have put the entire onus on the “peace activists.” They could allow their cargoes to be inspected, and proceeded safely, they could have turned around, or they could have tried to run the blockade, and sealed their own fate.
It needs to be remembered that Israel does not completely surround Gaza; Gaza has a south-western border with Egypt, and the Egyptians have kept that border closed as well. If all the “peace activists” wanted to do was get food and medicine to the poor, poor people of Gaza, they could have arranged everything through the Egyptian government. They didn’t do that because that was never their intention; their intention was to provoke an incident. In that, they succeeded.
The very realistic Dana (474dfc) — 6/6/2010 @ 6:25 amDana, blacks are at least from Africa, if you go back a few generations. Jews are from Israel (which the Romans renamed Palestina in an attempt to erase our presence there).
And there’s nothing magical about international waters. The blockade zone extends beyond 12 miles, and the boats were approaching it. The normal and expected thing to do is to board the boats and search them for contraband, and all boats but this one have peacefully accepted boarders as the law of the sea requires them to do. The Israelis didn’t anticipate that this boat was going to resist; they should have, and therefore should have done as you suggested, but where they were, not at the 12-mile line.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 6/6/2010 @ 8:17 amDana, the ships were boarded well outside the 12 mile limit because there was an attempt to organize a small boat flotilla to swarm the ships as they approached Gaza, which would only have increased the chaos, confusion, and likelihood of violence.
The Israelis can be blamed for not handling the boarding well, but their decisions of where and when are quite reasonable.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/6/2010 @ 8:29 am“It should have been announced, clearly, that these ships could continue to proceed in international waters, but that unless they agreed to be inspected, they would be sunk once they passed the twelve-mile limit.”
The very realistic Dana – I believe the conditions of the blockade and Israeli intentions were made very clear repeatedly to the organizers of the flotilla. The international waters issue is a red herring for widely announced blockades. People who understand international law agree the stop was legal. Even Reauter, which normally sides with terrorists, published an article supporting that position.
daleyrocks (1d0d98) — 6/6/2010 @ 8:52 amReuters
daleyrocks (1d0d98) — 6/6/2010 @ 8:52 am