Patterico's Pontifications

5/31/2010

Israeli Commandos Attack Gaza-Bound Ships (Updated: Activists Attacked First)

Filed under: International,Obama — DRJ @ 11:35 am

[Guest post by DRJ]

Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu canceled tomorrow’s White House meeting after Israeli navy commandos attacked ships trying to breach a Gaza blockade:

” Israel’s prime minister has cancelled a planned meeting with President Obama to deal with the escalating international crisis over an attack by the Israeli military on civilian aid ships that left at least 10 dead.

Binyamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, is in Canada and had been due to visit the White House tomorrow after a series of increasingly fractious meetings with the US over the stalled Middle East peace process.

But after Israeli naval commandos stormed the ships of the Gaza Freedom Flotilla overnight, killing up to 19 according to some reports and leaving dozens wounded, Mr Netanyahu has found his country the target of international condemnation and protest.”

The incident has provoked worldwide condemnation of Israel with some labeling it “state terrorism.” The White House issued a moderate response:

“The White House, which had been at odds with the Israeli prime minister over settlements in East Jerusalem, released a statement saying that President Obama had spoken with Mr. Netanyahu and understood his need to return immediately to Israel. In addition to regrets about the loss of life, “the president also expressed the importance of learning all the facts and circumstances around this morning’s tragic events as soon as possible,” the statement said.”

— DRJ

UPDATE — From Hot Air:

“It looks like Ynet’s account, which Ed linked earlier but which you should absolutely read in full, was spot on: The IDF really thought they were facing off with “peace activists” here and didn’t realize their miscalculation until they were on the boat. (See the third clip below for just how badly they misjudged.) The argument from the left is that the raid was illegal because it happened in international waters, but evidently that’s not true either: If a neutral ship is intent on running a blockade after being warned to turn back, the fact that it’s on the high seas isn’t a defense.”

In addition, the Israeli Embassy in LA has posted facts on the Gaza Flotilla and Blockade and one of the activists/organizers of the flotilla, the Turkish IHH.

79 Responses to “Israeli Commandos Attack Gaza-Bound Ships (Updated: Activists Attacked First)”

  1. It looks like the IDF Navy tried a less-than-lethal armament for the boarding parties, and it backfired on them.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  2. Should have just quietly sunk the boats in the middle of the night, and then said “who, us?”

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  3. I’d be interested in hearing how this affects Israeli-Turkish relationship. More so than the relationship with the US.

    pizzathehut (e66d8d)

  4. “Should have just quietly sunk the boats in the middle of the night, and then said “who, us?””

    That’s the north korean option.

    pizzathehut (e66d8d)

  5. i have to object to the terms “attack” and “attacked”, since the vessels in question had previously been advised that their actions were illegal and that they were entering a quarantine zone in violation of posted restrictions, with the announced intent of smuggling in supplies to Hamas.

    thus the boarding of said vessels by Israeli personnel was perfectly legitimate law enforcement activity that was met with illegal resistance.

    an Israeli “attack” would have been the IDF using Apache helicopters to sink the vessels in question with Hellfires and 30 mike mike, which is what i would have done without further warnings once he vessels entered the exclusion zone.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  6. “The incident has provoked worldwide condemnation of Israel with some labeling it “state terrorism.””

    We’ve seen this movie many times before. Violent “peace activists” incite violence for propaganda purposes.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  7. This was bad. First of all, it was in international waters. That’s piracy. Second, the ships were carrying food and medicine. Starvation as a weapon is disgusting.

    nk (db4a41)

  8. Nonsense, nk, that the ships were in international waters does not immunize them from interception given their stated destination. Secondly, Israel is not using starvation as a weapon, the ships were instructed to divert to Ashdod for inspection of their cargo, and the insinuation is cheap slander. Note that Egypt is also enforcing the blockade against Hamas.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  9. This was good. First of all, it was in an announced and publicized war zone. That’s police work. Second, the ships were supposedly carrying food and medicine, but the Gazans and their allies rarely tell the truth. Mild hunger as a weapon is a lot better than shooting missiles at schoolkids and other civilians because the Gazans can always end the blockade by giving up the missiles and renouncing violence.

    The Israelis already let plenty of humanitarian stuff through.

    What about that Egyptian blockade then? Seems like none of Gaza’s neighbors like them. Wonder why?

    Fred Z (c1782b)

  10. Damn, SPQR beat me.

    Fred Z (c1782b)

  11. nk – Complete bullshit. The Israelis have no problem moving legitimate humanitarian supplies into Gaza on the ground. This was a pure propaganda stunt on the part of the Palestinians. Slappy Cindy McKinney participated in one of these in 2008.

    You’re verging on EricPW territory here.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  12. Unlike nk, it seems like Obama is actually waiting (this time) to find out the facts before opening his mouth (and inserting foot)…

    steve sturm (116925)

  13. nk’s clients should be glad that he doesn’t practice either International, or Maritime, Law; for it would certainly verge on malpractice.

    AD - RtR/OS! (40e968)

  14. For nk’s elucidation, the USN & USCG intercept, and board for inspection, foreign flagged vessels all the time along the Pacific Coast of South and Central America looking for illicit cargo bound for North America, not counting their efforts in the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico. Any vessel that resists by not heaving-to will prompt gunfire that will disable the vessel.

    AD - RtR/OS! (40e968)

  15. Maybe nk would support Glenn Greenwald’s proposed solution of an airport in Gaza. That way Hamas can directly fly guns and rockets in under the guise of humanitarian shipments without worrying about tunnels under the Egyptian border or Israeli checkpoints.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  16. I wonder if the IDF are available for a little work in Arizona.

    PatAZ (9d1bb3)

  17. The New York Times does the utterly predictable: It blames Israel for jeopardizing relations with Turkey, for attacking “peace” ships originating from Turkish-controlled Cyprus and from Turkey itself.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  18. I have to admit that it is surprising that Obama has not joined the chorus condemning Israel and has taken a wait and see approach. A rare moment of sanity.

    BT (74cbec)

  19. “First of all, it was in international waters. That’s piracy.”

    No, it isn’t. You need to brush up on your Maritime Law. For one thing pirates can’t be the agents of a state (by definition piracy is carried out by private parties for private ends). An IDF force cannot engage in piracy (unless they’re mutineers).

    From the UNCLOS (United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea)

    “Piracy consists of any of the following acts:”

    “(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft…”

    Dave Surls (931832)

  20. If the Palestinians are starving – where are the Pics – the information I’ve seen is food is plentiful and so are the Rockets

    EricPWJohnson (cedf1d)

  21. Nk – wrong, wrong, wrong – please see the report and try to understand what actually happened before leaping to unwarranted conclusions:

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896796,00.html

    The commandos were only armed with frigging paintball guns at the beginning, for Chrissakes. When those were ineffective at stopping the assault on them, they used stun guns – to little effect. So then they finally resorted to lethal force. So even though they had both hands tied behind their backs, they’re still worthy of your codemnation, correct?

    You want the Israelis to use tinkertoys next time they need to defend themselves? Great, join the rest of the hate – Israel western world who were screeching about this before they even had a clue as to what actually transpired. Sheesh.

    Dmac (3d61d9)

  22. “For nk’s elucidation, the USN & USCG intercept, and board for inspection, foreign flagged vessels all the time along the Pacific Coast of South and Central America looking for illicit cargo bound for North America, not counting their efforts in the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico. Any vessel that resists by not heaving-to will prompt gunfire that will disable the vessel.”

    Yup. Everybody does that who has a navy.

    Example:

    “A British warship has seized a s240million cocaine shipment – the biggest haul in Royal Navy history.”

    “HMS Iron Duke’s crew sank the 138ft drug boat with bursts of cannon fire after confiscating its deadly cargo and arresting the gang of smugglers.”

    “The high-seas drama happened off the coast of South America last week after US Coastguard agents tipped off the Portsmouthbased vessel while it was on patrol. The Iron Duke – currently on North Atlantic disaster relief duties for the hurricane season – eventually tracked down the drug runners after a dramatic chase lasting several days.”

    “A Lynx helicopter carrying elite Royal Marine snipers was dispatched to open fire as the warship closed in on the illegal fishing vessel MV Cristal – which was carrying 212 bails of cocaine.”

    “The smugglers surrendered and a heavily-armed US Coastguard boarding team attached to the Iron Duke – a Type 23 Frigate – stormed the vessel and arrested the South American crew.”–Daily Mirror 9/28/09

    Sorry, but smugglers don’t get a free pass just because they’re in international waters. And, if you try and run or fight, the RN or the USN (or the IDF) will chase you down, grab you and maybe sink your boat in the bargain.

    Sorry, lefties, but thems the rules.

    Dave Surls (931832)

  23. BTW, another post like that one and I’m going to start calling you Wheeler’s Cat’s afterbirth.

    Dmac (3d61d9)

  24. Perhaps Obama’s response was tempered because he doesn’t want to encourage claims that he is taking sides by supporting the activists behind the flotilla.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  25. Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu canceled tomorrow’s White House meeting after Israeli navy commandos attacked ships trying to breach a Gaza blockade

    Israeli commandos DID NOT ATTACK ships.

    Israeli commandos BOARDED ships to enforce a blockade that the ships were flouting and were themselves attacked. They then defended themselves after being attacked by “Palestinian peace activists”. Some of the Israeli commandos were grievously injured before deadly force was used.

    Incidentally, apparently only one of the half-dozen, or so, ships resisted boarding and not surprisingly, all of the injuries to the “Palestinian peace activists” were confined to that ship.

    The LA Times did a better job on this story than you did, DRJ

    Calfed (c9fe79)

  26. Within 24 hours of this incident, the UN passed a resolution aimed at making the Middle East a “nuclear free” zone, and the U.S. backed it. The world seems to be painting Israel into a corner. http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.5eaf6bbb255b23063c3b3635bd5f7c52.161&show_article=1

    [note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]

    TimesDisliker (0c6e06)

  27. You want the Israelis to use tinkertoys next time they need to defend themselves?

    No, tinkertoys are hard and have pointy ends; he’d probably be OK with nerf balls or small stuffed animals.

    Old Coot (f722a6)

  28. Calfed

    According to TV 10 in Israel 19 are dead and 36 wounded with no injuries to the Israeli Commandos

    Thats from the Hebrew Reporters

    So I think DRJ’s title is correct with alomst 60 dead or injured you cant really described as a boarding and routine search.

    However, knowing Israel, they have their own footage and the fact its not been released yet is troubling.

    EricPWJohnson (cedf1d)

  29. I am sorry for the IDF commandos who were injured and killed boarding these vessels in such a way as to expose them to such danger.

    Ordering the ships to heave to or being sunk would have been a much better solution.

    iconoclast (7bd231)

  30. Calfed – there is a certain unwritten rule that was in force during what is termed the Crusades by us Christians… during a siege, the besieged were permitted to put up a defense unless and until it was clear that the defense would not be able to hold. If the defenders forced armed conflict beyond the tipping point where the besieging force was clearly going to win, then it was expected that the force would exact revenge – raping, pillaging, etc. On the other hand, should the besieged relent when it became clear they would not be able to hold, they were granted clemency. This gentleman’s agreement was not always upheld. I am not sure this was such a bad policy. I kind of have no problem with cops pummeling someone who forces a high-speed car chase. On the other hand, I am not a big fan of Israel. But I guess if I had to choose to stand by one over the other, I’d pick the lesser of two awful evils. I can’t remember which of these I dislike more, actually.

    Enoch_Root (174a66)

  31. EricPWJohnson, the IDF released video. So I guess you are not troubled after all? Or is that your usual faux outrage.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  32. It’s hard to pick the right words when a story is evolving. I watched available video and read several reports, and decided to say the commandos attacked boarding the ships. However, to make it clear that it wasn’t an unprovoked or improper attack, I also pointed out that the ships were in breach of a blockade.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  33. Also, how was this worse than the LA Times article entitled “Israel criticized over Gaza flotilla attack”?

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  34. Israel has every right to board and search ships headed for Gaza to look for weapons that could be used to attack them.

    And if there is a big humanitarian crisis in Gaza, are they smart enough to look at a map and see that border they share with Egypt. You know, that country that is not ruled by anyone from Israel.

    Why does Egypt hate the people of Gaza so much? Maybe it is because Hamas hates Egypt as much as it hates Israel.

    MU789 (bf47e4)

  35. At least actually, the big O didn’t say….

    “I think it’s fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry,” Obama said. “Number two, that the Cambridge police, I mean IDF, acted stupidly “

    Breitbartfan77 (6bd10f)

  36. Given the choice between yet another round of noisy but ultimately toothless international vitriol, and another gross or so of Hamas rockets raining down on their schools and residences, I’d say the IDF made the right choice.

    As for the losses incurred by the “peace activists”, that’s more commonly known as “what happens when you f*** with the IDF”.

    PCachu (e072b7)

  37. This was a deliberate provocation of Israel. If humanitarian aid was the primary goal, there would have been every effort made to comply with the blockade and go through the required route. That choice would have assured the arrival of necessary aide, or at the least a far greater possibility that it would reach the people it was intended for. Their choice to deliberately attempt to breach the blockade makes it’s clear what their priority was.

    Another thing that’s so aggravating is that it’s so convenient to ignore who the IHH really are and spin them as victims:

    Prominent among the coalition organizations participating in the aid flotilla scheduled to arrive in the Gaza Strip is the Turkish IHH (Insani Yardim Vakfi, IHH, “humanitarian relief fund”). It is a radical Islamic organization, established in 1992 by a member of the Turkish Refah Party and formally registered in Istanbul in 1995.

    2. As far back as 1996, it was identified by the CIA as a radical Islamic humanitarian organization named International Humanitaire Hilfsorganization (IHH) a.k.a International Humanitarian Relief Organization, with its main offices in Zagreb and Sarajevo and headquarters in Germany. The CIA report noted that the organization had connections with extremist groups in Iran and Algeria.

    3. The January 1996 CIA report entitled International Islamic NGOs and Links to Terrorism was declassified by the American administration after the September 2001 attacks for use in the government trials of captured Al Qaeda members. The report mentions a large number of Islamic organizations affiliated with radical Islamic groups.

    More.

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  38. Those so-called “peace activists” sure know how to beat the living sh*t out of people. This was meant to provoke and that, it did.

    That said, what was the IDF thinking to go in with paint-ball guns?

    GeneralMalaise (67df13)

  39. If anybody thinks Israel is at fault here… Please go educate yourself.

    subzer0 (2237a3)

  40. Well, it was Israel’s “fault” that the boarding teams were unprepared for the amount of violent resistance they encountered. If they had showed up with overwhelming force, the reality is that the casualties among the “activists” would have been fewer if they’d done that.

    That said, go IDF, I do not care what happens to Hamas sympathizers.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  41. I’m Sorry SPQR – but I’m firmly on the side of the Israelis – but as I can see – they have not released the videos of the actual shooting – maybe I’m wrong – but not of the actual shots fired

    EricPWJohnson (cedf1d)

  42. I updated the post with more details and video from Hot Air.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  43. Greenwald hyberbolically checks in:

    “It hardly seemed possible for Israel — after its brutal devastation of Gaza and its ongoing blockade — to engage in more heinous and repugnant crimes. But by attacking a flotilla in international waters carrying humanitarian aid, and slaughtering at least 10 people, Israel has managed to do exactly that. If Israel’s goal were to provoke as much disgust and contempt for it as possible, it’s hard to imagine how it could be doing a better job.”

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  44. I dont trust the arabs to even give the other side of the story but I sincerely hope they detain everyone in that convoy for questioning – nobel prize winners included

    EricPWJohnson (cedf1d)

  45. Test – comments still not reloading for me.

    Dmac (3d61d9)

  46. Dmac,

    I’ve had troubles on and off today, too. I don’t know if they are working on it today, since it’s a holiday. But I think they did expand the number of posts that appear on the front page.

    DRJ (d43dcd)

  47. I’m sick to death of everyone and their mother knee – jerking their way to asshattery every time Israel has the utter gall to keep their country from being blown to smithereens. When one of my friends starts in on this bent, I remind him of what our reaction would be if Canada or Mexico tried the same kind of crap that Israel must put up with every day of their tenuous existence. Imagine if Mexico decided to lob a few hundred rockets across the border, as Hamas does on a regular basis. Result? Mexico’s bombed back to the Mayan age.

    Dmac (3d61d9)

  48. Peace activists? Oh as in Religion of Peace.

    Arizona Bob (e8af2b)

  49. Is anyone else having problems looking at the full number of comments?

    Calfed (c9fe79)

  50. Is anyone else having problems looking at the full number of comments?
    omment by Calfed — 5/31/2010 @ 6:25 pm

    It’s an issue with cookies that the hosting company is working on. Not sure how much was done today because of the holiday, but I expect they’ll have it fixed very quickly once it’s over.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  51. EricPWJohnson, your claim that “19 are dead and 36 wounded with no injuries to the Israeli Commandos” is completely contradicted by every major news source. Can you provide ANY documentation that:

    1. 19 people were killed by the Israelis
    2. 36 people were wounded by the Israelis
    3. That none of the Israeli commandos were injured?

    As for Israel not releasing video of the operation, that too is contradicted by the widely available video that Israel has released.

    Calfed (c9fe79)

  52. Enoch_Root, other than providing a segue for you to tell us all how much you detest Israel, I have no idea what application a supposed “gentleman’s agreement” that existed during the Crusades has to Israeli commando’s defending themselves against “Palestinian peace activists” who were engaged in a concerted attempted to beat them to death.

    Calfed (c9fe79)

  53. The only reason Obama hasn’t condemned Israel is because there’s an election coming up and he doesn’t want to lose the Jewish vote. His support among Jews has been eroding since his election in 2008 and he knows that since the tide is running strongly against his agenda among Independent voters, he’s going to need the Democrat’s traditional base to turn out for the midterms. If he looses the Jewish vote, his party gets crucified in November.

    ropelight (b88d0f)

  54. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us%3AIE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7SMSN_en___QA373&q=19+killed+36+wounded+gaza&aq=o&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

    call israel TV 10 news and correct them

    that ws the information a few hours ago

    Now many are running with 19 dead and 36 wounded and claiming that they opened fire before they hit the deck

    Look – I’m just relaying what Israeli TV and other sources said at that time

    Personally they should have sunk the boat if it didnt stop

    EricPWJohnson (cedf1d)

  55. Oh sure, but as usual, all of the benefit of the doubt are with the Hamas terrorists. In case you’ve missed it, there are over six riots going on right now in many of major world capitols, they all started about 2 minutes after the Hamas press release, and about 10 minutes after the time of the incident. Purely coincidental, no doubt.

    Dmac (3d61d9)

  56. Calfed – point is this – in defense of the Israelis – as much as I have no particular love for them – the “peace activists” were faced with overwhelming force and yet compelled the besiegers (the israelis) to utilize that force… faced with overwhelming odds, the “peace activists” decided instead to “put up a fight” – in so doing, they took what would have been a bloodless event and converted it into a blood-letting. My point: in so doing, they get what they got. And, i am ok with it.

    enoch_root (174a66)

  57. …and, Dmac, not surprisingly, the Muslim Brotherhood is spearheading the protests throughout Europe and the Mediterranean. It’s as if this incident was all the world needed to become emboldened and bluntly manifest their fierce hatred of Israel.

    Ironically, not only will the election have serious consequences if Obama condemns Israel (the Jewish vote will go), but if he doesn’t condemn Israel, his standing with the Euros and Muslim countries (which he led them to believe during his Cairo speech, a new day was dawning), will be seriously harmed.

    An interesting catch 22 for a President, especially a president who continually checks to see which way the wind blows before committing…

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  58. #47 – Comment by Dmac – Imagine if Mexico decided to lob a few hundred rockets across the border, as Hamas does on a regular basis. Result? Mexico’s bombed back to the Mayan age.

    Request for clarification, why do you use the term “back”?
    /sarc off

    TimesDisliker (0c6e06)

  59. This editorial in the Arab News that was written before the incident shows that it was all choreographed in advance. It was the intention of the people who organized the flotilla to cause bloodshed.

    “The question now is will the “Freedom Flotilla” challenge the Israeli occupiers of the West Bank and the besiegers of the Gaza Ghetto to anything like the same extent? The smart move might be to let the ships get through. But that would be to open the door to further aid convoys and the effective destruction of a major part of the Gaza blockade. The Netanyahu government would hate the triumph this would give to the people of Gaza and their supporters around the world. Therefore it seems that a showdown and perhaps bloodshed is unavoidable, to be recorded by the international press teams aboard the “Freedom Flotilla.” Will this therefore become the Palestinians’ “Exodus” incident?”

    Arab News editorial

    Richard (4c2ef6)

  60. Dana – Maybe pizzathehut/imdw will remind us again about those neat White House seders Obama holds. Those should be big vote getters.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  61. This was all pretty peaceful until the passengers on that boat started attacking the IDF.

    Did EricPWJohnson ever pay up on his bet, or even acknowledge that he lost? FWIW, he is on BradBlog and Hootenany levels of dishonesty and asshattery now.

    JD (bd3d05)

  62. And in other news Muslims kill 12 of their own indiscriminately

    http://gulfnews.com/news/world/pakistan/gunmen-attack-pakistan-hospital-in-lahore-kill-12-1.635235

    EricPWJohnson (cedf1d)

  63. EricPWJohnson apparently thinks that simply ignoring his prior dishonesty will make it go away.

    JD (bd3d05)

  64. Mainsleaze Media predictably ignore terrorist organization sponsoring the “peace flotilla.” SHOCKA!!!!

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  65. There is a lot over at PowerLine, which agrees with something I had heard earlier, that 5 ships were boarded without incident, relief supplies were documented and were in process of getting where they needed to go, and ship #6 was an ambush set up.

    MD in Philly (cb8efe)

  66. Maybe pizzathehut/imdw will remind us again about those neat White House seders Obama holds. Those should be big vote getters.

    daley, a troll impersonating a troll is nothing I can respect, therefore I won’t read any further comments by him her that person.

    I suspect the only cure is to grow up and right now that looks to be a long shot.

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  67. If anyone has the time, go look at a globe or an atlas. Pinpoint exactly where Israel appears.

    If you look at the atlas, take a look at the population of Israel. If you have the time look at all the countries around Israel and for thousands of miles beyond.

    After you’ve done that, or not, please take the time to explain to me why this one tiny nation — surrounded by enemies — is, exactly, the cause of all the world’s woes.

    Explain to me exactly, why any endeavor it takes to protect its borders and its people is tantamount to the destruction of more than a billion sworn enemies.

    The reason I ask is because I know a few people who happen to be Moslem. They’re good people who I like. And to the person, whenever Israeli relations come up, they tell me the same thing over and over, and I’m quoting to be as accurate to their sentiment as possible:

    “If the United States did not support Israel, we would be its friend.”

    These are people who live in the United States. These are people who came here to enjoy our freedoms and many, but not all, want to be citizens.

    But they simply can’t get past the existence of a democratic state that is largely Jewish.

    And then, you have entire world’s intelligentsia concentrating on the injustices of a democratic government controlling a small slip of land that, quite frankly, no one would want for any reason except to raise goats.

    And then, try as you might, to explain to me why this whole contretemps, as many before it, is nothing more than religious bigotry.

    Just once, I would like a liberal to explain to me why the existence of Israel is an affront to the peace of the world in practical terms.

    Please tell me why the people of Israel have to apologize for trying to protect their borders. Please tell me why the state of Israel should not exist.

    And if you’re going to tell me because the partition after World War II was unjust, please tell me why that is so in regards to the other partitions that exist to this day.

    What, precisely, makes Israel an affront to the world?

    Ag80 (7aec3e)

  68. “If the United States did not support Israel, we would be its friend.”

    Ag80 – With all due respect to your friends, the above is complete BS as you are aware. If the U.S. did not support Israel, it would not exist. Muslims would have wiped it off the map decades ago.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  69. Of course I know that and I respect your understanding.

    I’m just looking for someone to answer my questions with the real reason. But, they can’t and they won’t.

    Ag80 (7aec3e)

  70. No indeed, JD, EricPWJohnson’s previous asshattery will not be forgotten.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  71. #67 Ag80:

    What, precisely, makes Israel an affront to the world?

    Why, they’re Jews!

    What other reason need there be?

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  72. I’m trying to think what would have happened if a USCG vessel had, in international waters, attempted to board a ship after an appropriate warning to heave to, and all, and in response to being attacked with various and sundry weapons, the Guardsmen had first resorted to paintballs, and then handguns.

    I’m thinking that the criticism would be, appropriatedly, something like, What moron in command sent these guys out expecting them to defend themselves with paintballs?

    Granted, by and large, the USCG stops and boards to prevent the distribution of unlicensed pharmaceuticals by an informal network of unlicensed pharmacists, and the IDF stops and boards to prevent, say, missiles intended to be shot into civilian neighborhoods and blowing up Israeli children from reaching the Gazans. Obviously, that’s a less serious matter.

    As to the starving Gazans meme, do check the link DRJ supplied: humanitarian aid alone has topped more than a ton of aid per capita since January of last year; 15,000 tons goes in during a typical week. (This is just the humanitarian aid that comes in; some additional food apparently comes in through the smuggling tunnels from Egypt, although, apparently, the locals find themselves more in need of weapons than food.)

    Meanwhile, the Arab News is fulminating over another horrible act by Israel: apparently, the Israeli government has been circulating menus from some of the tonier Gaza restaurants. The Steak au Poivre sounds delightful, as do the more mundane sandwiches at the Big Bite, served under a sign that proudly proclaims, “Bite me.”

    That last is certainly a message that the IDF would be likely to endorse.

    Joel Rosenberg (ab94ff)

  73. Well said, Joel. ( Good to see you here again )

    SPQR (26be8b)

  74. Test.

    Dmac (3d61d9)

  75. The only good Islamist…

    Frank Drebbin (8096f2)

  76. At a time when Egypt was conducting an even tighter embargo/blockade, Israel attempted an inspection that was withing their rights. Since the international terrorist muslim brotherhood doesn’t want to play by the rules, I wouldn’t blame Israel for sinking any and all ships bound for Gaza that do not submit for inspection.

    For you libs, that means when Israel says, “Heave to!”, you do it or start swimming.

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  77. Still having problems with the comment section of this thread?

    Calfed (c9fe79)


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