L.A. Times Columnist: Dare I Send Mom to Arizona?
At the L.A. Times, Hector Tobar recently wrote a column about the dilemma of whether to send his mother, a U.S. citizen living in Guatemala, back to Arizona to see her old friends. The problem: she is scared of the Nazis demanding her papers (h/t Bradley Fikes):
The Grand Canyon State has been on her mind lately. She used to live in Sedona and still has many friends in northern Arizona. In fact, she was planning on visiting them next month.
She’s back in her native Guatemala now — it’s cheaper there for a retiree — but travels frequently to the U.S. After many hours at home watching reports about Arizona on Fox News, CNN and CNN en Español on her satellite TV, she was deeply worried. A kind of madness had overtaken her old home state. It was up in arms over immigration.
“I don’t want to take the risk that they’ll hear my accent, look at me suspiciously and take away my U.S. passport, thinking that it’s false,” she wrote.
Tobar writes that he talked to one family friend who said that the worry is ridiculous. But, you know, his name is “Herb Dyer” — so what does he have to worry about? Unsatisfied with Herb’s answer, Tobar goes to another family friend who gives him the dark side:
Now the climate there has grown very ugly for people of Mexican descent, Rodriguez told me.
He’s grown used to being stopped by police who demand various documents. Often the stops seem arbitrary. Sometimes a patrol car will tailgate his vehicle on the highways around Cottonwood.
His U.S. citizenship is a kind of shield against official harassment. But his friends and relatives who are legal permanent residents live in fear of the authorities. “If you’re driving in a car with someone who doesn’t have papers and they stop you, you could be arrested for smuggling,” Rodriguez said. Such an arrest could lead to loss of legal status.
There’s no magic way to tell legal from illegal immigrants just by looking. Illegal immigrants have even managed to fake their way into jobs as police officers, and a growing number speak English better than Spanish. In today’s Arizona, a lot of people learn the status of a friend or acquaintance only when something goes wrong.
Well, if the illegals are the cops, you’d think they’d go easy on the whole “demanding papers” issue.
Tobar concludes his column with this:
My mother is the most deeply intuitive person I know. So when she gets back I’ll ask her “Did you feel any fear in Arizona?” I know she’ll give me an honest answer.
Well, of course she’ll feel fear. She already does. That tells us nothing.
How about asking her: “Did the police give you any trouble in Arizona?”
And then, when she says no, how about coming back to your readers and giving them that honest answer?
I’ll be over in the corner holding my breath.
P.S. If you found the paranoia of this column enjoyable, Bradley Fikes has another ridiculous L.A. Times piece on Arizona for you: Sandy Banks’s column about black bridge players conflicted about playing in a bridge tournament in Phoenix. If you can make it through the whole thing without rolling your eyes several times, you’re stronger than I am.
Illegal Aliens are the same ilk as Black Friday line jumpers in Northern States. When you stand for hours in line in near zero temperatures, then to see people roar up at the last minute in their warm cars to jump in front of the line engenders thoughts of justifiable homicide.
PCD (1d8b6d) — 5/19/2010 @ 8:11 amHow would Hector Tobar react if I were to say, “I am worried about going into Monterey Park for dinner. I am afraid they will see my blond hair and white skin (impressively tanned as it is), hear my unaccented English, and immediately I will be set upon by Latino gangs who will rob and stab me.” No doubt I would be immediately tagged as a crazy racist, yet having wild fantasies about Gestapo in Arizona is absolutely justifiable to progressives.
JVW (08e86a) — 5/19/2010 @ 8:37 amJohn Kobylt and Ken Chiampou (John & Ken) deserve the credit for pointing these columns out. They have done, by far, the most comprehensive and accurate reporting on the Arizona law.
When I find it, I’ll link to the podcast in which they do a dramatic reading of Tobar’s sob-story column. In the meantime, here’s a brief MP3 clip of a good rant about LA Times’ defective coverage.
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C. O.R. (a18ddc) — 5/19/2010 @ 9:04 amOf course his mother is scared, the MSM has been putting 110% into the effort to panic the American public on this issue and to create unreasonable fear of non-existent threats. Just like they did for the “assault weapon” ban, which convinced my mother with absolute certainty that it was all about banning machine guns.
Socratease (27ecdd) — 5/19/2010 @ 9:14 amI didn’t think the law had even taken effect yet.
spongeworthy (c2e8fe) — 5/19/2010 @ 9:20 amTo my complete and utter surprise, Sandy Banks Dowdified her description of Arizona’s illegal immigration law.
Under Arizona’s new law, police officers must require proof of immigration status from anyone they stop or arrest when “reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien.”
The law states:
For any stop, detention or arrest made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state in the enforcement of any other law or ordinance of a county, city or town or this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien and is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation.
Banks also omits the “when practicable” and “except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation.”
But I’m probably expecting too much from an LA Times columnist to understand all those big words.
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C. O.R. (a18ddc) — 5/19/2010 @ 9:23 amBack in grade school we were taught the word “propaganda” as related to the widespread– and obvious–misinformation efforts of the soviets’ news organ. The fear *stories* being propagated about Arizona this spring are much too similar and too ridiculous to be wholly accidental. I think I recognize state helped-along propaganda when I see it.
elissa (bff247) — 5/19/2010 @ 9:24 am‘“If you’re driving in a car with someone who doesn’t have papers and they stop you, you could be arrested for smuggling,” Rodriguez said.’
Well, that kind of comes with the territory. If you’re riding in a car with a bunch of car thieves, and you get stopped by the police, they’re probably going to arrest you too.
Dave Surls (f684b7) — 5/19/2010 @ 9:49 amAs a fellow bridge player – I can honestly state that the LA times story is totally crap. Black bridge players have been accepted and respected as fellow bridge players in the bridge community for decades. I have never witnessed at any bridge club or tournament any form of prejudice, bigotry and any other form of negativity toward any person because of the color of their skin.
Joe (367573) — 5/19/2010 @ 9:56 amGreetings:
And of course, there’s nothing (nada, ahora y siempre) to be afraid of in Guatemala (mi corazon, mi paradiso). And thanks, mi vieja fellow citizen for your help with our balance of payments problem. Earn it here, take it there. Bueno.
11B40 (a45e73) — 5/19/2010 @ 9:56 amHector should warn his mom not to come to California. We have had a law similar to Arizona’s on our books for years. See Section 834b C.P.C.
Stu707 (0981d5) — 5/19/2010 @ 10:19 amHe should send his mother to Chicago–they don’t ask for papers (although she’ll have to dodge the bullets from all of the gunfire between gangs).
Rochf (ae9c58) — 5/19/2010 @ 10:30 amDid Hector mention what kind of immigration laws Guatemala has?
Michael Ejercito (249c90) — 5/19/2010 @ 10:45 amThe document, written in 2002 by the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel, concluded that state police officers have “inherent power” to arrest undocumented immigrants for violating federal law.
Neo (7830e6) — 5/19/2010 @ 11:06 amSorry, I mistakenly put this in another post. The 8 MB John & Ken podcast with the weepy Hector Tobar column, read by J&K to sad piano music, is here.
Go to 18:55 in the podcast for the segment’s beginning.
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C. O.R. (a18ddc) — 5/19/2010 @ 11:19 amHow would Hector Tobar react if I were to say, “I am worried about going into Monterey Park for dinner. I am afraid they will see my blond hair and white skin (impressively tanned as it is), hear my unaccented English, and immediately I will be set upon by Latino gangs who will rob and stab me.” No doubt I would be immediately tagged as a crazy racist, yet having wild fantasies about Gestapo in Arizona is absolutely justifiable to progressives
The driving impulse behind the modern left has nothing to do with economics or tax rates and everything to do with hatred of white people. The modern right has yet to wrap its head around that vital truth.
[note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]
Subotai (a2a9d9) — 5/19/2010 @ 11:28 amThis may not be politically correct to say, but there are already thousands of law abiding citizens who have begun to think of moving to Arizona since this story broke. If the Times and its allies can just “keep up the skeer”, as Nathan Bedford Forrest used to say (during the war), the Arizona housing crisis may be solved.
Mike K (82f374) — 5/19/2010 @ 11:56 amUnder Arizona’s new law, police officers must require proof of immigration status from anyone they stop or arrest when “reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien.”
I believe this same sentance was used, word for word, by Robert Morgenthau in a WSJ OpEd today (subscription req.) – must be a LeftProg talking point.
AD - RtR/OS! (4ab397) — 5/19/2010 @ 12:05 pmSo what is this guy Hector Tobar , 12?
f1guyus (0af9f1) — 5/19/2010 @ 12:17 pmMaybe he could be worried about his mom going to the high school graduation in Michigan Obama is fishing for new voters at… the kids there are being asked their citizenship status.
Isn’t CA one of the states that has a law on the books that says you are required to carry a lawful ID?
I actually hope Eric Holder puts together a law that puts an end to this AZ nonsense.
Steve G (7d4c78) — 5/19/2010 @ 1:09 pmThat should be a hoot.
By the time his ACLU buddies get done crafting it, the cops won’t be able to leave the station without a federal agent/watchdog oboard.
Staffing for these new jobs will be provided by ACORN and the SEIU.
AD – RtR/OS!
The words varied a bit, but the lie was the same:
Arizona’s new immigration law has been roundly criticized for encroaching on the federal government’s authority to enforce immigration laws. It requires police to demand documentation from an individual when they have a “reasonable suspicion” that a person is here illegally.
Yes, this is in the opinion section, but the WSJ shouldn’t have printed such a blatant falsehood, easily disproved by the law’s own text.
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (a18ddc) — 5/19/2010 @ 1:23 pmJust fyi, commenting is still really flaky. It takes ages for comments to appear, then they sometimes disappear an hour later.
Subotai (a2a9d9) — 5/19/2010 @ 1:29 pmMy only remark to these continued attacks and fear mongering is to ask if anyone has every vacationed in Arizona, and if so, what are good places I can go for an anniversary type vacation?
I have a driver’s license, which is all I need if I am pulled over and my immigration status is questioned. If a city is genuinely worried about this harming their employees, they should be raided by INS because they shouldn’t be employing illegal aliens.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 5/19/2010 @ 1:54 pmTobar’s ‘Achtung! Papers please!’ thing is a Nazi strawman. As stated on a previous thread, this writer, while a resident alien in Britain years ago, has experienced having local police authorities ask to ‘see papers’ on demand, along with friends. No doubt other Americans who frequent this blog who have lived and worked in foreign lands have had similar experiences. Not the DL thing for traffic matters but those genuine, ‘may we see your papers, please’ kind of inquiries on the street — the kind or papers governments issue to you to verify you have a legitimate right to be there. The circumstances were, from the perspective of the Metropolitan Police, routine and cheerfully complied with. We were proud to verify we were Americans, not Canadians. And as resident aliens, we were required to carry these ‘papers’ with us ‘at all times’ so as to be able to present them to said authorities upon demand. It was simply no big deal. None of us felt it was a ‘racist’ policy or harassment of us as American nationals. But it did provide a perspective from another point of view as in the U.S., we felt the freedom of movement was granted. It was the law of their land and as guests in Great Britain, we complied with those laws. As this writer understands it, the Arizona law simply permits authorities to ask for legal verification of status after detaining an individual under suspiciion for another matter. They ain’t grabbing people off the street.
DCSCA (e34d6a) — 5/19/2010 @ 2:04 pmMy only remark to these continued attacks and fear mongering is to ask if anyone has every vacationed in Arizona, and if so, what are good places I can go for an anniversary type vacation?
Comment by Dustin — 5/19/2010 @ 1:54 pm
Sedona’s magnificent. Rent a Harley. But I prefer Aspen in August.
nk (db4a41) — 5/19/2010 @ 2:38 pmIMP is still an imbecile.
JD (cc9633) — 5/19/2010 @ 3:05 pmSo let me rephrase myself… if I am… I dunno… loitering… and some cop rolls up and says the neighbors complained and can he please see my ID?
So I say I don’t have any ID with me… so he asks my name and DOB..and for whatever reason it doesn’t match up with anything that makes sense in the database.
My understanding is that CA law says that if the cop wants to, he can detain me until they can figure out with certainty who I am. I am required to be able to verify my identity, not carry it in the form of a card or whatever…
Prudence would dictate that the cops should do so once contact has been made…
So technically CA law doesn’t say I have to carry a lawful ID, but practically speaking, doing so can keep me from having to sit on the ground in cuffs or spending the evening in the tank until they get around to verifying me.
Back in that time when everyone over 16 had a drivers lic. but before computers, I think being detained with no ID was good for a run up for vagrancy
Steve G (7d4c78) — 5/19/2010 @ 3:31 pmThe spam filter must have eaten my earlier message. Maybe it was the link I included. CA has long had a law similar to Arizona’s statute. It is Section 834b of the California Penal Code.
Stu707 (0981d5) — 5/19/2010 @ 4:05 pmStu707,
I’ve seen that law cited several times in various newspapers in letters to the editor and opinion columns. But I haven’t seen any newspaper reporter tackle the subject.
A comment on an LA Times blog post pointed out 834b’s provisions.
Will the LA Times editors order a story comparing our 834b with Arizona’s law?
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C. O.R. (a18ddc) — 5/19/2010 @ 5:30 pmHector Tobar should not be entrusted with the care and security of a plate of nachos.
JD (cc9633) — 5/19/2010 @ 6:00 pmWho cares what idiot ideologues like this bozo think or say. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to determine their motives or intent. If the real war comes, they will face extermination from the same comrades that they so enthusiastically embrace. What pathetic, scared lives they must lead . . .
jkw (2cf417) — 5/19/2010 @ 6:02 pmDustin,
There are so many luxury resorts in Arizona but here are some in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area: The Phoenician, the Marriott Desert Ridge, or the Fairmont Scottsdale. In Tucson: The Ritz-Carlton Dove Mountain or the Marriott Starr Pass. Flagstaff is pretty but I don’t know any places to suggest.
DRJ (d43dcd) — 5/19/2010 @ 6:06 pmany reason we can’t boycott bof?
happyfeet (c8caab) — 5/19/2010 @ 6:09 pmI love The Phoenician. That is all.
JD (cc9633) — 5/19/2010 @ 6:09 pmI are eschewing the luxury hotels in Los Angeles and also Arizona.
Si soy puedo I think.
happyfeet (c8caab) — 5/19/2010 @ 6:10 pmPohonix (sic) is horriffically hot even in May. Go to the mountains. If you are not an experienced rider, get a trike. But Sedona is truly beautiful.
nk (db4a41) — 5/19/2010 @ 6:25 pmActually, NK this May has been extremely mild. Around 80 degrees for the most part. Dustin, we have the Grand Canyon, Sedona, Prescott (former state capitol)great golf (if that is your thing although I concur with Mark Twain). You can stand on a corner in Winslow, Az before heading to the breathtaking Meteor Crater or stay in a concrete wigwam in Holbrook. You can take a small plane over the Canyon for a little over $100 for the full effect. There is a 4 hour round trip on a diesel train in Verde Canyon where you will be regaled with stories by the guides in each car as you watch majestic pines and all kinds of wild life. There is also the Painted Desert. If you find yourself down in Bisbee you can stay at Shady Dells where you can stay in an old Chris Craft boat or a classic Airstream trailer for a reasonable price. This is all from memory and I am sure a Google search will reveal so much more. If you come to Cave Creek I will even buy you a drink.
gazzer (7c0559) — 5/19/2010 @ 7:13 pmA kind of madness had overtaken her old home state. It was up in arms over immigration.
Hector Tobas should recommend his mother instead visit Mexico. She’ll have nothing to fear there, except the possibility of her head being shot or chopped off, or her certainly witnessing such acts of barbarity.
Mark (411533) — 5/19/2010 @ 7:51 pm