Patterico's Pontifications

5/1/2010

Obama on Government

Filed under: Government,Obama — DRJ @ 9:49 pm



[Guest post by DRJ]

Speaking at the University of Michigan commencement, President Obama cautioned Americans about negative opinions about government:

“In his 31-minute speech, Obama didn’t mention either Palin or the tea party movement that’s captured headlines with its fierce attacks on his policies. But he took direct aim at the anti-government language so prevalent today.

“What troubles me is when I hear people say that all of government is inherently bad,” Obama said after receiving an honorary doctor of laws degree. “When our government is spoken of as some menacing, threatening foreign entity, it ignores the fact that in our democracy, government is us.”

Government, he said, is the roads we drive on and the speed limits that keep us safe. It’s the men and women in the military, the inspectors in our mines, the pioneering researchers in public universities.”

There he goes again.

Obama is adept at framing his political opponents’ arguments in an incorrect and extreme way, all the better to bat them down. Conservatives object to expensive, expansive, and big government — not the military, speed limits and roads. Many conservatives also object to elites who think they can govern better than mainstream Americans or as Obama describes us, bitter, clingy Americans:

“You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

Obama wants us to trust federal government but 8 in 10 of us don’t. That’s a lot of frustration, Mr. President.

— DRJ

130 Responses to “Obama on Government”

  1. “The most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”

    wherestherum (d413fd)

  2. No. 1: A nice line, but Americans in point of fact don’t believe it, based on their actions.

    People don’t trust in government until they need something. Social Security — wildly popular. Medicare — same story. We like our beautiful parks and they way government enforces maintenance of beaches. A crisis like this oil slick hits: “Where is the government (we hate so much)?!”

    Look at all the defense of big, intrusive government of the Arizona law by alleged conservatives on this site and elsewhere. No size government is too big when it comes to handling illegals, apparently. No level of intrusion is too intrusive. If American citizens get shaken down in the process, as they inevitably would were this law ever to take effect — too bad so sad. That’s if you let “conservatives” tell it. I would lay good odds that 55 to 60 percent of the people who comment here would support armed soldiers at every street corner in AZ — tomorrow.

    This law has been a dividing line. A lot of anti-big government “conservatives” need to hand in their credentials over this one, seriously. Look in the mirror: Don’t you love the government?

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  3. and that’s “we like THE way …”

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  4. You are so full of crap.
    Go somewhere to peddle it.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  5. “A lot of anti-big government “conservatives” need to hand in their credentials over this one, seriously.”

    Myron – This comment shows how little you understand about the issues at hand and why people should not take you seriously.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  6. Myron – Sorry, I should have added, GROW UP!

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  7. EW: How long did it take you to craft that brilliant response? Didn’t like what you saw in the mirror?

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  8. Daley: Empty comment, as usual.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  9. Myron – Since you are not here in good faith, other than pointing out flaws in your arguments, it is not worth spending time on tour comments. Creating strawman positions for people such as you did is not good faith and betrays your basic ignorance. Your problem, not mine.

    Grow up.

    Good night all.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  10. “Look at all the defense of big, intrusive government of the Arizona law by alleged conservatives on this site and elsewhere. No size government is too big when it comes to handling illegals, apparently.”

    Um, maybe you ought to read the Constitution sometime. I mean, like read the actual document, not what the left tells you what is says. Protecting the country from all enemies, foreign and domestic, is something that the government is supposed to do. So sorry, I don’t buy into your tripe.

    That’s all the time I’m going to waste on the disingenuous.

    wherestherum (d413fd)

  11. Daley: Nice dodge. I raised specific points. You didn’t. On another thread where I raised the same points, you posted someone else’s ideas.

    It really is past your bed time, so yeah, good night.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  12. Moron, we don’t need armed soldiers on every street corner in az, where I am happy to reside, we just need them on the border. I see you also have received your talking points. That is, as in the new “tea-baggers-must-be against-the-new-AZ-law-cos-they-are-against-big-gubmint-and-if-they-are-not-agin-it-they-are-hypocrites.” Where do I buy the T-shirt?

    gazzer (7588eb)

  13. wherestherum: Most experts are saying the constitution is on my side of the argument and that the law will be overturned. So what’s your point?

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  14. And further, if the law IS overturned, what will you be jawin’ about then?

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  15. gazzer: I saw a childish insult in the first line, so didn’t read the rest of your comment. Re-post as an adult and maybe we can talk.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  16. All: OK, I have to hit the sack myself (east coast).

    But don’t waste my time in the a.m. I’m interested in the answer to two questions.

    1. What does an illegal immigrant look like? I want specifics.

    2. How do you square alleged conservative beliefs with, not only support of this law, but the complete absence of at least a wee bit of concern about the law?

    Nite.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  17. Most experts are saying the constitution is on my side of the argument and that the law will be overturned.

    Please cite these so called experts. I can wait.

    wherestherum (d413fd)

  18. Moron never cites anything, nor does it produce any support for its claims……

    (could you produce a few more cookies? %-)

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  19. Yeah, I don’t expect him to, Red. I still have some cookies left actually…

    wherestherum (d413fd)

  20. Fixed it for you you poor sensitive little thing…
    we don’t need armed soldiers on every street corner in az, where I am happy to reside, we just need them on the border. I see you also have received your talking points. That is, as in the new “tea-baggers-must-be against-the-new-AZ-law-cos-they-are-against-big-gubmint-and-if-they-are-not-agin-it-they-are-hypocrites.” Where do I buy the T-shirt

    gazzer (7588eb)

  21. wherestherum: For you? I won’t even keep you waiting until the morning:

    “The new Arizona immigration law, which allows police to stop people they suspect of being illegal immigrants, might never go into effect because of the many serious legal challenges it faces. A Tucson police officer already has filed a suit against the law and the Justice Department is reportedly considering a lawsuit .

    “Federal immigration law may trump the Arizona law because the federal government has broad constitutional authority over immigration, legal experts say. In addition, the Arizona law may violate the 4th Amendment’s search and seizure requirements by allowing police to stop a person if the officer has “reasonable suspicion” that the person is an illegal immigrant. The state says it won’t use racial profiling in enforcing the law, but critics say there is no way to avoid it.”

    Full article is here.

    Now, the Web site interviewed several professors as well as looked at the constitutional law professor blog. Check out this tidbit:

    In a legal analysis of the Arizona law this week, the Constitutional Law Prof Blog concluded, “The new law is almost certainly invalid under the Supremacy Clause.”

    Now, rum, besides for people who wrote the law, where is your bevy of legal experts who say it will stand?

    I’ll read your response in the morning.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  22. Government is good. It does a whole lot of good things.

    It builds roads and schools and educates a whole lot of children. It picks up trash.

    It makes laws. It arrests people when people violate the law.

    It provides protection from foreign enemies. It assures civil rights.

    It feeds hungry people.

    It also allows you to disagree with it.

    Here’s a quote:

    You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.

    Ag80 (f67beb)

  23. 19: What’d you say, rum? What didn’t you expect?

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  24. Thanks, gazzer. Showing respect will not kill us. I swear.

    As for this point: “we just need them on the border.”

    I agree. That has nothing to do with this law, however.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  25. And on THAT note, truly, nite!

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  26. “What troubles me is when I hear people say that all of government is inherently bad,” Obama said after receiving an honorary doctor of laws degree. “When our government is spoken of as some menacing, threatening foreign entity, it ignores the fact that in our democracy, government is us.”

    Mr. Obama must take issue with the words of George Washington:

    Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force.
    Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.

    Or maybe even the folks at Democratic Underground:

    Like fire, government must be constantly and closely watched to make sure it isn’t getting out of control and you must stand ever ready to douse the fire.

    But a larger issue: why is Obama erecting this strawman? No serious person says that all government is bad.

    Some chump (9eaefb)

  27. You know, Myron is a funny one.

    First, he actually accused other people of wasting his time. That is a whole new level of phony, considering the source.

    Then there is the amazing statement about childishness from “Mr. Teabagger.”

    I also like the straw man army and holier than thou bit.

    Why, you might think the fellow is nervous about midterm elections and is acting out!

    Eric Blair (a2ecff)

  28. Well, I think Kris Kobach, the author of the law, has credentials that speak for themselves. And, btw, the AZ law mirrors Federal law.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/opinion/29kobach.html

    wherestherum (d413fd)

  29. Showing respect will not kill us. I swear.

    So showing respect = letting a certain segment of people ignore all the laws? How’s that work?

    Bomber (c10308)

  30. Myron, you’re conflating arguments. It is one of the federal government’s Constitutional duties to protect our borders. Thus, conservatives have no problem with it.

    But the federal government is not protecting our borders. So the states are left to try to do it themselves. The Supremacy Clause might be used to overturn Arizona’s law. Though it’s not as sure a thing as your experts might think. The law mirrors federal law, and is a response to the fact that the feds are not enforcing federal law. The suit is going to be a black eye for the feds no matter how it turns out.

    FUBAR (0e7c1a)

  31. Oh, and that article you quote gets the facts wrong. It does not allow police to stop people merely on suspicion of being here illegally.

    FUBAR (0e7c1a)

  32. During the 2008 election cycle, BP-linked donors gave $71,051 to Barack Obama’s senate campaign, more than they gave to any other senator that cycle.

    BO+BP=Destruction of our environment!

    ned (8c252d)

  33. Wow. We are treated to this exchange:

    Protecting the country from all enemies, foreign and domestic, is something that the government is supposed to do

    wherestherum: Most experts are saying the constitution is on my side of the argument and that the law will be overturned. So what’s your point?

    Myron, what is your point here? If the Arizona law is ruled unconstitutional, does that mean that the government isn’t supposed to protect the borders? How is your response a refutation of wherestherum’s statement?

    Some chump (9eaefb)

  34. 1. What does an illegal immigrant look like? I want specifics.

    Well, maybe when they run across the Arizona Police that question can be answered.

    HH (d46413)

  35. 1. What does an illegal immigrant look like? I want specifics.

    This is dumb. And it comes from ignorance of what the law actually says. The police aren’t going to base their suspicion on what the suspect looks like. Can they speak English? That’s an excellent test. Do they have ID? Are there 40 of them in the back of a U-Haul?

    FUBAR (0e7c1a)

  36. “Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.”

    -George Washington

    wherestherum (d413fd)

  37. Byron York has aggregated all the nonsense that has been said about this law:

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/top-10-dumbest-things-said-about-the-arizona-immigration-law-92577964.html

    Of course, we all know a certain self-impressed left of center journalist who won’t think those things are dumb, at all.

    Eric Blair (a2ecff)

  38. Not to demonize him but he’s demonic I think.

    happyfeet (c8caab)

  39. FUBAR #36 – you beat me to it …

    It’s not what the potential illegal immigrant *looks* like that matters … chances are that the LEO will detect him/her by the lack of command of the english language …

    It does, however, take a certain innate internal bigotry to assume that the only way to tell if someone is an illegal immigrant is by looking at him/her … then again, it *is* Myronic projection, isn’t it ?

    Alasdair (205079)

  40. #22 Ag80:

    Government is good. It does a whole lot of good things.
    It builds roads and schools and educates a whole lot of children. It picks up trash.
    It makes laws. It arrests people when people violate the law.
    It provides protection from foreign enemies. It assures civil rights.
    It feeds hungry people.
    It also allows you to disagree with it.

    I am going to disagree with your wording, because I think there is a subtle but important point to remember.

    It isn’t “government” that does all those things: it’s people. It’s people united in common cause to accomplish mutual goals, using an agreed on framework to accomplish them.

    “Government,” on the other hand, gets its name from its ability to influence a population by diktat, usually enforced by force of arms as a last (or sometimes first) resort. This country is a country where the “government” is made up of the people, presumably united in common cause, with no one person having the ability to dictate to all, backed up by force of arms.

    That doesn’t sit well with Moron up there, who would much rather that he, or at least people he approves of, are in charge so that all those dirty, smelly, unintelligent capitalist people are told exactly what to do because they would otherwise never figure it out for themselves.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  41. Distrust of government is what prompted the founding of this country.

    If the current government were truly a government “of the people,” then it would be ferociously self-limiting, instead of ferociously power-grabbing. With Obama at the helm, no one can doubt that government is grabbing power.

    This is just another in the continuous line of crap from Obama that’s all premised on the idea of him and his ilk being smarter than the rest of us, so we should just shut up.

    I won’t.

    Beldar (78290b)

  42. #42 Beldar:

    I won’t.

    I’m with you.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  43. And I may not always be particularly polite about it.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  44. Alasdair – The slave-ocrat party is based on bigotry with its reliance on identity politics, so the comment from Myron is not unexpected. Just more childishness.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  45. “Are there 40 of them in the back of a U-Haul?
    Comment by FUBAR”

    Or 20 in an old Ford Econoline van, with a 19 year old driver driving erratically, no driver’s license or insurance, expired tag and broken tail lights. Which is probably why the vehicle was stopped in the first place.

    PatAz (9d1bb3)

  46. This comment shows how little you understand about the issues at hand and why people should not take you seriously.

    I disagree – Muron has repeatedly claimed that he’s a professional journalist, despite no evidence offered, other than his inane commentary and lack of substantiation. Come to think of it, maybe that’s definitive proof all of itself.

    Dmac (21311c)

  47. You’re doing a heck of a job, Myroonie!

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  48. Dmac – He’s claimed he is in journalism – he has not specified the role.

    Part of his schtick has been to fabricate positions he believes conservative should hold and them demand that they defend them. The problem is that he typically fabricates strawman positions or false choices, just like Obama. Very childish technique and demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the issues.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  49. Pres. Obama would be bereft and helpless without telemprompters and strawmen…

    …the former to make him appear articulate, the latter reasonable…furious

    furious (71af32)

  50. How many can fit in a van?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zPo2etaCmI

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  51. @ EW1(SG) — 5/2/2010 @ 4:58 am,

    You make an important distinction in your comment @ 41. Subtle but very important. The distinction is what separates (or has separated) America from so many other nations. I don’t want us to lose that.

    “You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.
    And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

    I hadn’t read this in full since the President made the comment and it stunning how manipulative and self-serving it is. In one fell swoop he denigrates a select group of people he sees as having depended solely on the government to take care of them (like, he believes people should) and when the government didn’t come through for them, they – of course – did what people naturally do when big daddy doesn’t take care of them: they transform into a collective group of negative hatefulness because how else can they deal with their abandonment? They couldn’t possibly still know a quality of life, ethic, morals, principles or guiding light to see them through, or even faith to direct their paths. No, because if the government let’s them down, all else is lost. Heck, they might as well have just killed themselves to get the pain over with.

    This is one of the most divisive, arrogant, and self-serving statements I’ve ever heard. It’s that outrageous. I’m almost sorry to have been reminded of it.

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  52. __to fabricate positions he believes conservatives should hold and then demand that they defend them__

    Daley, I’ve thought exactly the same thing about Myron (and others, too). He must get his info on “what conservatives think” from Salon and the lefty blogs because he is way off the mark most of the time as he clucks away. If he had any conservative friends at all, or took the time to actually get to know and understand any conservatives on a personal level, he possibly might not say such idiotic things and put up such strange, unrecognizable strawmen.

    elissa (46a712)

  53. Front page headline this am:

    “Obama condemns political rhetoric”

    He needs a lesson from JD.

    A side thought for everyone who wants to condemn BP- I’m sure everyone from the lowest worker on that rig to the CEO and chair of the board really doesn’t care about exploding rigs and oil spills, they really, really don’t.

    MD in Philly (0f793a)

  54. #52 Dana:

    I don’t want us to lose that.

    Me either, which is why I thought the distinction important.

    Then Beldar came along and said it much better than I did which is why people pay him the big bucks to elucidate ideas. 😉

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  55. EW1(SG),

    I just read Beldar’s comment. I believe you both made the point equally well, just differently. I personally like seeing the different approaches to the same idea because it adds more of a fullness and completion. Regardless, it appears there is a strident move afoot by this administration to convince us that it’s time to move on and shake off the old, antiquated form of governing because he knows a much *better* way to do it. Now if we would just step out of the way, he could get to it.

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  56. “This is one of the most divisive, arrogant, and self-serving statements I’ve ever heard.”

    Dana – It’s his bigotry that’s bothers me, but then again he’s part of the “Educated Class.”

    “And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

    Obama’s an urban elitist who thinks he’s smarter than you. It comes out in his speeches and his bigotry is in his books. He doesn’t know anything about small town America or if he learned anything it was only from the cocoon of his presidential campaign. He thinks Americans are dumb and the country need to be “TRANSFORMED.”

    The country survived 230 years without Obama. Why does it have to be transformed because some people who didn’t know any better voted in a bigoted dirty socialist as president?

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  57. #56 Dana:

    Regardless, it appears there is a strident move afoot by this administration to convince us that it’s time to move on and shake off the old, antiquated form of governing because he knows a much *better* way to do it. Now if we would just step out of the way, he could get to it.

    There you go, illustrating the pickle we’re in in yet a different but equally cogent fashion.

    And if one were to listen to daleyrocks, you might get the impression that he thinks the country is okay, and it’s the administration that’s, uhm, in need of transformation.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  58. daley, yes, the bigotry. His willingness to denigrate a select group of people publicly just to promote himself for a vote was stunning. What’s more stunning, is that I believe he *really* believes that he is the one to make their lives better. Because surely, they *want* to become more like him. As time has passed, he obviously has difficulty believing people don’t want to be transformed by him and don’t want what he is peddling. Therefore it leads me to believe that at the heart of him, he believed (and still believes) wholeheartedly in his bitter-clinger judgment. It’s beyond his scope of understanding to not.

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  59. #59 Dana:

    Therefore it leads me to believe that at the heart of him, he believed (and still believes) wholeheartedly in his bitter-clinger judgment. It’s beyond his scope of understanding to not.

    In the May Day protest thread, I linked to an article by Trotsky in Izvestia back in 1918, explaining the “relevance” of the May Day “holiday” in the Socialist pantheon, the pantheon that the O!ne believes in wholeheartedly and believes that he himself is here on Earth to deliver to the yearning masses! who obviously don’t know enough to recognize that it is Socialism that we yearn for.

    It is, at its root, a religious thing for him.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  60. For Democrats, merely repeating the sentiments of our founding fathers is treasonous.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  61. SPQR. False. Or are you referring to the concept of putting words into the founding fathers’ mouths and claiming that to be their true sentiments? Because rethuglicans do that as a rite of passage into moron-hood.

    Intelliology (00d844)

  62. “Or are you referring to the concept of putting words into the founding fathers’ mouths and claiming that to be their true sentiments? Because rethuglicans do that as a rite of passage…”

    Substantiation required. Any evidence that backs that ridiculous assertion?

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  63. No, Intelliology is once again making up stuff – that’s the kind of dishonesty we’ve come to expect from him.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  64. I would ask SPQR to provide evidence of his ridiculous assertion, but that would just be hypocritical of me to expect from a sh*t-show like this blog.

    Intelliology (00d844)

  65. “I would ask SPQR to provide evidence of his ridiculous assertion, but that would just be hypocritical of me to expect from a sh*t-show like this blog.”

    So… in the end, you DO admit to a taste for coprophilia.

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  66. EW1(SG) 10:06 am,

    I didn’t see your May Day link. I’ll go look at it now.

    Chicago Boyz Shannon Love wrote a very, very good essay on the subject yesterday. In part,

    The killing arrogance of those who believe they have the knowledge to order entire societies, even the entire world, is ultimately what empowered Stalin to do what he did.

    That arrogance has not abated. One need only glance at the news to see it. The intellectual descendants of the people who lectured us all about the virtues of Stalin’s regime back then, today lecture us about their own grandiose visions. They are every bit as certain in their intellectual and moral rectitude as were those who defended Stalin. If we risk letting them into power, we risk a Stalin reborn.

    We must remain ever vigilant all of our days to fight against this evil that forever lurks in the core of our beings. We must all resist the urge to believe ourselves superior, to believe ourselves possessed of the one true knowledge, to believe ourselves entitled to sacrifice the living here and now for the sake of a utopia generations hence.

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  67. General mayonaise… I guess you don’t stop at putting words into the founding fathers’ mouths… you have to put them in my mouth as well. How disingenuous of you.

    Intelliology (00d844)

  68. very, very good, indeed.

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  69. “And if one were to listen to daleyrocks, you might get the impression that he thinks the country is okay, and it’s the administration that’s, uhm, in need of transformation.”

    EW1(SG) – Heh. SHUT. UP. He said. Racists!

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  70. Pretty bold of Intelliology to demand others prove assertions. But then all the boldest liars do that.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  71. Bold isn’t the word, SPQR. Pointless perhaps, but not bold.

    Intelliology (00d844)

  72. IMHO, this country is pretty, freakin’ far from “okay”. Too many people who are more than willing to take more than they give… too many politicians who use that compulsion to further their own agenda, solidify their power, and guide the United States of America toward inevitable decline and ruin.

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  73. “I would ask SPQR to provide evidence of his ridiculous assertion, but that would just be hypocritical of me to expect from a sh*t-show like this blog.” – Intelliology

    So… in the end, you DO admit to a taste for coprophilia, Intelliology. Or – at the least – a fecal fascination.

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  74. Otherwise… why would you hang around.

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  75. Well, look what the cat dragged in.

    Wheeler’s Cat, maybe. They should write a newsletter together. The “Griefer Gazette.”

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  76. Again, putting words into my mouth. I used an expression and you bring up fecal matter. Who are you claiming has the fascination again? Gross. Why don’t you get some therapy.

    Intelliology (00d844)

  77. Cat Sh*t Fever.

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  78. And the funny part, with the poorly named Intelliology, is why he or she posts here. I mean, since we are so awful and everything.

    Why, it must be all that hope and change falling around his ears.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  79. There’d be some aroma therapy around these parts if you would go hang with your moonbat kin, Intelliology.

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  80. If the current government were truly a government “of the people,” then it would be ferociously self-limiting

    “Self-limiting”!? Not when a large portion of the electorate — by believing that voting for liberals/Democrats is a sign of compassion, generosity and sophistication — has been attempting to turn the US into a larger version of Greece…

    americanthinker.com, Jane Jamison, April 9, 2010:
    California is the nation’s shameful example of what happens when Democrats influenced by big-government labor rule the statehouse for forty years.

    With 12.5% unemployment (up from 4.5% a mere three years ago) and a “recognized” budget deficit of $21 billion, California has just found that out it is in much, much more financial trouble than anyone, especially a Democrat, really wants to admit.

    California’s governor Schwarzenegger commissioned a study by Stanford University, which has found that California’s three public employee pension funds (The California Public Employees’ Retirement System [CalPERS], California State Teachers’ Retirement System [CalSTRS], and University of California Retirement System [UCRS]) lost $109.7 billion in portfolio value in one year (June ’08 to June ’09) and are currently in shortfall of “more than half a trillion dollars.”

    By law, California taxpayers are required to pay the public employees’ pensions shortfalls that may occur. Local governments cannot “print money” as the federal government does to cover budget deficits.

    PensionTsunami.com, which has been tracking the pension fund liability issue for five years, has found that 9,233 retired members of CalPERS or CalSTRS receive more than $100,000 per year in retirement benefits, amounting to more than a billion dollars a year.

    The retired city administrator of Vernon, California, Bruce Malkenhorst, receives an annual pension of $449,675 from CalPERS. Vernon, a Los Angeles suburb, has 92 residents.

    California’s state employee pension fund liabilities have ballooned for years with increased numbers of state employees, many of whom can retire at age 50, can “spike” their last years’ income with overtime to increase their retirement, and can then move on to other government or private jobs without losing their pensions.

    Who is to blame for this ticking-time bomb of unfunded public pension liability?

    “Thank” Jerry Brown. As Governor “Moonbeam” of California in 1978, he signed the “Dill Act,” which gave California public employees the right to collective bargaining.

    Brown, who has been governor, Oakland mayor, and attorney general, now wants to be California governor…again. Four big, grateful government labor unions are backing him…again.

    Speaking to [a] union group in Sacramento, Brown was caught on videotape asking the labor leaders to “do the dirty work” and “attack” Republican candidates who oppose him in the governor’s race.

    Who else is to blame?

    Since Brown gave them a green light in the 1970s, public employee unions have become a muscular, dominating force in California politics. State employee unions spent a whopping $31.7 million on state races just from 2001-2006, according to the California Fair Political Practices commission — higher than any other group, including corporations. The majority-Democrat California legislature has voted accordingly.

    Mark (411533)

  81. Hope and change is better than b*tch and moan, “doctor”.

    Intelliology (00d844)

  82. hopey changling… awwww

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  83. “Hope and change is better than b*tch and moan, “doctor”.”

    Intelliology – I suggest cleaning the sand out of your mangina.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  84. They asked me how I knew
    He was not a “he” oh…oohooooohhhh
    must be the moonbat lies
    and what’s between his thighs
    sand gets in his eyes

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  85. So I offer a few posts and you all comment back with creepy fecal matter and ‘mangina’ remarks. I guess its not just a few republicans that boast about their ethics and morals in public, yet just don’t live up to those standards in their real lives.

    Intelliology (00d844)

  86. “Or are you referring to the concept of putting words into the founding fathers’ mouths and claiming that to be their true sentiments? Because rethuglicans do that as a rite of passage…”

    Substantiation required. Any evidence that backs that ridiculous assertion?

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  87. “SPQR. False. Or are you referring to the concept of putting words into the founding fathers’ mouths and claiming that to be their true sentiments? Because rethuglicans do that as a rite of passage into moron-hood.”

    “I would ask SPQR to provide evidence of his ridiculous assertion, but that would just be hypocritical of me to expect from a sh*t-show like this blog.”

    Intelliology – You claim you just offered a few posts and then bitch and moan about the treatment you received here. The above are the first several posts you offered. I see ABSOLUTELY nothing from the blinkered moonbat perspective which would generate feelings of ill will from commenters here. From a real world perspective, however, try again. You are not a victim.

    “General mayonaise… I guess you don’t stop at putting words into the founding fathers’ mouths… you have to put them in my mouth as well. How disingenuous of you.”

    “Bold isn’t the word, SPQR. Pointless perhaps, but not bold.”

    “Again, putting words into my mouth. I used an expression and you bring up fecal matter. Who are you claiming has the fascination again? Gross. Why don’t you get some therapy.”

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  88. I don’t see your point, daleyrocks. Oh, I get it; you don’t have a point. Clever.

    Intelliology (00d844)

  89. Oops, Intelliology’s posts are above and below my words. He was predictably too dumb to figure that out. His loss.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  90. Yeah… ‘my loss’. :-)

    Do you wear a helmet on the jungle gym?

    Intelliology (00d844)

  91. What a waste of space. Can’t say we didn’t try, daley.

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  92. It makes you wonder where Intelliology has been, doesn’t it? Since he is so smart, he must be super successful. What was he doing while he was gone? Buffing Al Gore? Helping out with Goldman Sachs?

    Or did he lose computer privileges at home?

    But no worries. Soon this complete troll will take off again. But for now, he is his usual toxic and trollish self.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  93. Hey, I just saw the “doctor” comment from Intelliology. He might be referring to me, or perhaps to the MDs who post here.

    Hmm. Why make the big deal, complete with quotations? Must be more resentment. Or academic probation.

    Seriously, dude, you are just acting like a troll. Either grow up or go away. No one really cares which.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  94. I’m sure those mine inspectors have the full support of the families that lost loved ones in the Massey Energy coal mine.
    And, let’s not forget, the inspectors from MMS that were overseeing the drilling by BP in the Gulf.
    Yes, Gov’t is being soooo helpful.

    AD - RtR/OS! (45c403)

  95. Myron must be a Texan, at least the stereotypical one we learned about in Boot Camp.
    He’s tall and lean (the Marlboro Man) and silently opinionated; but, when making arrangements for when he departs the earth, he goes to an undertaker and selects the finest casket of mahogany and bronze, not knowing that the undertaker plans to make a great deal of money on the service since he will not need that very large size casket, but will be able to bury him in a shoe-box – which is the result when instead of using embalming fluid, you use an enema.

    AD - RtR/OS! (45c403)

  96. What moron knows about conservatives could be written, double spaced and with wide margins, on the back of a “forever” stamp.

    AD - RtR/OS! (45c403)

  97. Myron, people love Social Security and Medicare because they get out a lot more then they put in.

    If you don’t see something inherently wrong with that statement, then I have fantastic business opportunity for you…

    JHE (9284aa)

  98. Not sure which is more played out, the race card or the “don’t you want roads and firefighters?” argument. As if to advocate smaller government is to somehow advocate complete anarchy. Standard straw-man argument used by intellectually lazy amateurs with nothing else to offer. I have never heard one person say “all of government is bad”. Come to think of it though, a little anarchy would weed out these nanny-statists pretty quickly. I gaurantee conservatives could last longer without firefighters and roads a lot longer than your standard Obama supporter.

    stout77 (c2d8fe)

  99. If the Arizona law is ruled unconstitutional, does that mean that the government isn’t supposed to protect the borders?

    Some chump: The AZ law has nothing to do with protecting the borders. If someone is coming into your open gate and into your house, how you treat them in your house has nothing to do with whether the gate is still open or not.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  100. Well, I think Kris Kobach, the author of the law,

    rum: As I already implied, the author of the law is not going to be the most unbiased source. Of course HE’S going to say it passes constitutional muster.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  101. This is dumb.

    Re: 36.

    No FUBAR: The question is a trap. It’s a trap that every cop in AZ is being asked to walk right into. They have to make judgments in a snap that people here on this blog — with time to think about it — aren’t willing to address. The LAW is dumb.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  102. And FUBAR, that’s to say nothing of the law’s role in ratcheting up anger and distrust in the Latino community, which is 30 percent of AZ. The school system is 50 percent Latino. The law will make it harder and more expensive and I would even wager more dangerous for law officers to do their job in AZ. Were the law ever to pass.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  103. Distrust of government is what prompted the founding of this country. If the current government were truly a government “of the people,” then it would be ferociously self-limiting …

    Beldar: Distrust of government is good, and necessary, for people to remain free. But you mean to tell me you find this jack-booted law in AZ “ferociously self-limiting”? You can’t possibly believe that, can you?

    This is my whole point: I find that many conservatives are just talk when it comes to wanting “ferociously self-limiting” government. They want government to be big when they want it to be (as in the case of intrusive laws like AZ’s), and small when they want it be.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  104. fabricate positions he believes conservative should hold

    Daley: So I am wrong to believe conservatives believe in small government? Please.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  105. Or I should say “claim” to believe in small government.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  106. He must get his info on “what conservatives think” from Salon and the lefty blogs because

    No, Elissa. I get it from here. If you don’t believe in small government, then I question whether you’re a conservative, or rather I would question how you’re a conservative.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  107. Not when a large portion of the electorate — by believing that voting for liberals/Democrats is a sign of compassion,

    Mark: Yeah, it was Democrats who pushed No Child Left Behind, a massive unfunded mandate. Yeah, Dems are the only ones who believe in big government.
    Get.
    A.
    Grip.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  108. I don’t see your point, daleyrocks. Oh, I get it; you don’t have a point.

    Good luck Intelliology finding any point in anything Daleyrocks writes. I suspect he’s a good kid though, beneath the facade.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  109. “rum: As I already implied, the author of the law is not going to be the most unbiased source. Of course HE’S going to say it passes constitutional muster.”

    Myron – Sort of like the Democrats who rammed through the unconstitutional, flawed health care reform?

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  110. It’s The Attack of the Myroons!

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  111. Some chump: The AZ law has nothing to do with protecting the borders. If someone is coming into your open gate and into your house, how you treat them in your house has nothing to do with whether the gate is still open or not.

    So, your response to wherestherum really had nothing to do with his comment. Thanks for playing.

    Some chump (be85ea)

  112. Myron – How does my ass taste?

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  113. Daley: We’ll see what the courts say about both issues.

    Myron (3d5c6b)

  114. Re: posts #113 and #114… will this be shown on The Iron Chef?

    GeneralMalaise (53ce9e)

  115. Mark: Yeah, it was Democrats who pushed No Child Left Behind, a massive unfunded mandate.

    I’ve noted previously — and I’ll continue to note — that some of the biggest blunders of conservatives/Republicans, be they Herbert Hoover, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan or George Bush I and Bush II, have occurred when they’ve allowed left-leaning sentiment to get the better of them.

    So Hoover in the 1930s actually was a preview of what his successor, FDR, would do in making a bad situation worse (ie, the Great Depression), Nixon in general was full of liberal nonsense (eg, wage and price controls, affirmative-action goals and timetables), Reagan went against his own publicly stated policy of never dealing with hostage-taking nations (consequently, the scandal of Iran-Contra), and the 2 Bushes were into either “read my lips” or, as you note, feel-good nothingness like “No Child.”

    The lesson in all this is that everyone should realize the liberal sentiments they may harbor at any given moment will probably lead them astray. But the most important thing to keep in mind about such sentiment is….

    New York Times, Nicholas Kristof, December 2008:

    Liberals show tremendous compassion in pushing for generous government spending to help the neediest people at home and abroad. Yet when it comes to individual contributions to charitable causes, liberals are cheapskates.

    Arthur Brooks, the author of a book on donors to charity, “Who Really Cares,” cites data that households headed by conservatives give 30 percent more to charity than households headed by liberals. A study by Google found an even greater disproportion: average annual contributions reported by conservatives were almost double those of liberals.

    Mark (411533)

  116. The LAW is dumb.

    These are the words and grammar of a person who works in journalism?

    Were the law ever to pass.

    Good Lord, this is getting to be really embarrassing – where do you work again, and what is your position?

    Dmac (21311c)

  117. –then I question whether you’re a conservative, or rather I would question how you’re a conservative–

    Please do not take this personally, Myron, but frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn. (With all due apology to Clark Gable.

    elissa (46a712)

  118. Muron posted ten straight screeches before putting a bag over his head to breathe in deeply – the editing is not strong with this one (but he really, really works in journalism- honest).

    Dmac (21311c)

  119. Good luck Intelliology finding any point in anything Daleyrocks writes.

    Now Muron references a jacka– who’s just been banned for repeated offenses. Brilliant.

    Dmac (21311c)

  120. Note to Moron: NCLB was written in Ted Kennedy’s little shop of horrors.

    AD - RtR/OS! (45c403)

  121. And, though Conservatives believe in small government, it is a small government that is dedicated to performing the few, and enumerated powers proscribed to it by the Constitution.
    Defense of the Nation against all enemies foreign and domestic, is one of those enumerated powers.

    AD - RtR/OS! (45c403)

  122. Notice that Myron did not mention the amended version of the law which alleviated all of the faux-concerns that he claims, since the Federal government has nearly the exact same requirement, just unenforced.

    As many noted, Myron argues against a caricature of conservatism in nearly every comment. He must have studied at the same place that Teh One’s teleprompter writer did.

    Also note how it ignores the fact that Myron’s Dems are including mandatory biometrics in their “comprehensive immigration reform”.

    Also note how it wails, gnashes its teeth, and rends its garments over NCLB, yet had absolutely no problem with the multi-generational budget busting and dishonest accounting of BarckyCare.

    JD (c1a2b8)

  123. JD – Tough competition for troll of the day today between Intelliology, nishi and Myron.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  124. They were all being just who they are, daley. Nishit had been on a bender for a couple of weeks. Idiotology just crawled out from under its rock. But Myron’s mendoucheous behavior in this thread put him head and shoulders above the rest.

    [note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]

    JD (c1a2b8)

  125. JD – Myron just can’t face being completely humiliated and shown up as a fraud. It makes him act even more childish and immature. Reality is a big problem for him. He needs some humility.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  126. I love how he insists on insulting everyone, and imputing positions and motives to people that they do not hold, and as he did with elissa, trying to claim the ability to define the political perspective of opponents, but then has the temerity to whine like a schoolgirl and get the vapors when people respond in kind.

    JD (c1a2b8)

  127. Knocking down straw man arguments, BO’s MO.

    jeff (d629fd)

  128. Hey Barack, let me be clear – why don’t you answer specific objections to your policies for once, without scowling, blame shifting, prevarication, and distraction? How about a little demonstration that you can in fact understand and respect a point of view that is not your own?

    People may still disagree, but you might earn back some consideration and tamp down the rage that is building against your arrogant style of governance.

    Amphipolis (b120ce)

  129. Don’t hold your breath, Amphipolis.

    JD (d55760)


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