Patterico's Pontifications

4/22/2010

Comedy Central: The Only Thing We Have to Fear Is a Speech About Courage Itself

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:45 pm



Comedy Central is too scared to talk about not being scared:

Producers of “South Park” said Thursday that Comedy Central removed a speech about intimidation and fear from their show after a radical Muslim group warned that they could be killed for insulting the Prophet Muhammad.

It came during about 35 seconds of dialogue between the cartoon characters of Kyle, Jesus Christ and Santa Claus that was bleeped out.

“It wasn’t some meta-joke on our part,” producers Trey Parker and Matt Stone said. Comedy Central declined to comment.

And yet it is a meta-joke — it’s just that the joke is on those who stand for free expression.

Bleeping out a speech about intimidation and fear, because you are intimidated and fearful? Yeah, I’d say that’s pretty meta.

115 Responses to “Comedy Central: The Only Thing We Have to Fear Is a Speech About Courage Itself”

  1. Breaking News – Violent Muslims violently protest against being characterized as violent.

    Meanwhile, peaceful Teaparty rallies continue to be characterized as extremist, scary and racist by elements of the liberal media.

    Go figure.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  2. meanwhile, record sales of guns and ammunition continue unabated throughout red state America…

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  3. You know, it was a really funny meta joke. I think the episode was much funnier with the incomprehensible censorship.

    My wife and I were really cracking up when the bleeps at the end went on for over a minute each (pissed my dog off, though).

    I’m pretty surprised that this wasn’t part of the show. Comedy Central’s cowardice was incredibly clever to incorporate the censorship humorously. However, to bleep out the ‘lesson’ just because it makes the network look cowardly is extremely lame.

    I’ve always been impressed with the quality of their network, Carlos Mencia excepted.

    I harbor a little suspicion that this really was the meta joke denied. It’s just too good.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  4. See, that’s what a decayed and decadent culture looks like. When Rome was strong and young, to shirk your duty to serve would make you an outcast. In the decline, it was only outcasts who would serve.

    Right now, instead of a society dedicated to liberty, who would call the network out on their cowardice, we have a society of cowardice, in the guise of “sensitivity”. In fact, it is those who defend freedom, the Fallacis and Wilders of the world who are considered to be odd, out of the mainstream.

    Britt (a2a04c)

  5. The threat came from revolutionislam.com

    And they just got nicely hacked, or PWNED if you speak idiot.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  6. And their sister site, revolutionmuslim.org, redirects to Jerusalem Pulse Radio.

    Pretty snazzy.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  7. Helllllo, Alanis!! Remember that song you did with lots of incorrect examples of irony? Well THIS is an accurate example of irony, n’kay?

    Irony “boy this sucks”. Just for next time you get an urge to write a song…

    IgotBupkis (79d71d)

  8. > And they just got nicely hacked, or PWNED if you speak idiot.

    No, this one deserves respect — definite PWNAGE going on here. Give ’em credit.

    IgotBupkis (79d71d)

  9. The hacker certainly has my personal respect.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  10. I must not fear.
    Fear is the mind-killer.
    Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
    I will face my fear.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
    Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
    Only I will remain.

    Icy Texan (2d6ef1)

  11. Frank Herbert or David Lynch?

    I’m more a Frank, obviously.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  12. That’s directly from the original “Dune” novel.

    Would that Comedy Central possessed that strength of determination & mental discipline.

    Icy Texan (2d6ef1)

  13. Intentialism of the South Park Episode?

    We just had a long interesting discussion concerning hypotheticals of creating reactions with deliberate intentionally inflammatory speech.

    Just wondered why South Park – fully knowing what the reaction would be – would actually spend time manufacturing another situation – I mean do they set an intellectual standard of discourse that serves the betterment of society?

    And now companies, law enforcement, Consulates, and Expat Americans world wide are forced to a heightened state of security because South Park allegedly ran out of enough material to keep their product in the spotlight they had to grab the brass ring of guarenteed controversy?

    Oh well….

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  14. Just wondered why South Park – fully knowing what the reaction would be – would actually spend time manufacturing another situation – I mean do they set an intellectual standard of discourse that serves the betterment of society?

    I am pretty darn sure that they are setting as low a standard as possible for discourse, but I also think their goal is the betterment of society. They are pretty deep thinkers, and have some other ventures about philosophy that are pretty interesting.

    I wonder if the police are in a heightened sense of security because of this show. I bet in a few instances, they are, in places so closely related to these men or Viacom that it’s more like a business expense than a burden on society.

    The brass ring of controversy… they do go out of their way to shock people, I admit, but they are amazing artists. I can’t say I enjoyed watching Jesus throw feces at the US Flag (the conclusion of the other Muhammad episode, which had the meaning that you can bash other powerful figures, but those rules don’t apply to Islam. But they proved a point.

    And they are showing a lot of people in this country that radical Islam values human life less than some petty image ban.

    You could say that people should already understand just how evil radical Islam is, or how critical truly free speech is.

    But since a lot of people clearly don’t, and this is helping society along, I am happy about the price.

    Now, since their message explicitly and obviously was made in expectation of the reaction and interpretation it’s received (on both sides), I think they are favoring the kind of language theory that would keep a swastika off a buddhist in a holocaust memorial. Unless he too were deliberately going after an angry reaction to bring awareness to the ‘good’ swastika.

    Cool point, epwj. I think they are the same kind of intentionalists you and I and everyone honestly is: the kind that has the listener’s interpretation in mind when shaping a message.

    But I’m pretty sure no one thinks they are setting discourse standards other than Mill’s “The importance of free speech as a basic and valuable characteristic of western society cannot be underestimated.”

    I think the blame isn’t on them if something terrible happens, just as it wasn’t on the WTC victims even though they had been bombed there already. Etc etc.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  15. Dustin,

    Their products are in the stores over here, Carrefour, the Hyat Shopping Plaza, Falcon Trading (which owns many different named video stores such as SOAR) – plus they are one of the VERY few American products to have their apparrel and plushy sold en-mass in Qatar, Dubai, Bahrain et al –

    I wonder why South Park would choose to permanently lose a 1.2 billion person market – many of these in rapidly evolving countries – now muslims who still want South Park – would have to under penalty of death.

    I mean – south park could have done an episode on the murderous tendencies of the Kennedys

    They could have done an episode on all the drunk drugged Kennedys that have passed away over the years

    They could have tackled the gay priest raping catholic boys thing

    Heck even the Hollywood tendency to let above average producers rape little girls, plead guilty to a minor offense and refuse to do a minimum amount of jail time while being chronicled as relevant and a victim while confinded to a picturesque village in Switzerland (the Horror!)..

    Lots of places South Park could “Show” their courage

    Just they would lose market share and not get any press for it

    To me – it smacks of a simple grab for the ring for cash not for free speech

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  16. ManBearPig. They stood up against Gore when climate change was still unquestionable “settled science”.

    You seem to have a selective memory, EricPW. Or maybe you just don’t watch the show, eh?

    John Henry Eden (9284aa)

  17. Are you claiming that South Park doesn’t have courage to annoy everyone? Because I think you should head on over to southparkstudios.com and see for yourself that they happily lampoon democrats, republicans, and every faith and culture.

    I didn’t realize you were over there.

    Did you see the episode? It’s really not an insult to Islam, and I would bet serious nickle that thse products are still sold over there in 1 year. In fact, it’s been at least a year since the last time they broke this rule.

    One aspect of being a shock jock is that you are specifically aware that you cannot appeal to the majority of the market. So some of your reasoning does not apply. Further, do they really see a lot or any profit from the stuff you see for sale? Does it really matter to these people? They live a good life already and obviously care a great deal about their free speech value.

    “To me – it smacks of a simple grab for the ring for cash not for free speech”

    You’re wrong. Hell, you provide a lot of reasons why this isn’t true if they are really about to lose so much money, but you’re wrong even if that didn’t apply. These folks have willingly starred down a pretty credible death threat, so if that doesn’t meet your standard, you probably never will grant them credit.

    Of course it’s shocking. Every single episode them shown for 14 years has been shocking. They have a very consistent record, and this is not the first time it’s caused them problems. This was much milder than their treatment of any other subject I’m aware of. I think it’s wrong to assert they are being greedy or insincere after such a record. How much South Park have you watched, anyway? What’s your favorite episode?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  18. Actually, they make fun of JFK’s assasination when they mock killing Kathy Lee from the Texas Schoolbook Depository. JFK’s even shown.

    That’s how thorough they are. A random assertion that they should have been brave enough to make fun of Ted Kennedy is beaten by the fact that they made fun of the much more sympathetic murder victim, JFK.

    I bet there is no group equivalent to Islam that South Park hasn’t already insulted.

    But whether they are offensive or not is a different matter. And whether they are greedy is another matter (surely they are interested in lots of money, being so successful after years of hard work).

    What I found interesting was EPWJ’s discussion of this on intentionalism grounds, where I think it’s clear they were thinking the way a Buddhist in a swastika shirt would probably be thinking inside a holocaust Museum.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  19. Wow, Eric. I usually stay out of the fray when you go off the rails, and others here start bashing you. But this is really something.

    Just wondered why South Park – fully knowing what the reaction would be – would actually spend time manufacturing another situation.
    — 1) Who says that they ‘fully knew’ what the reaction would be? 2) We DO have freedom of speech in this country. 3) In conjunction with 1 & 2, the idea of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY — no matter how strenuously liberals (and nk re: post-partum abortions) try to kill it — survives within our system of jurisprudence. The “reaction” is the responsibility of those that are reacting, and not of those to whom they are reacting. 4) The assertion that the South Park creators made this episode with the intent of enraging Muslim extremists has no basis in fact that I can see.

    do they set an intellectual standard of discourse that serves the betterment of society?
    — In their “everyone is a target” style of comedy, maybe — maybe not. So what? They definitely provoke open-minded people to consider the relevance, importance, and potential damage to society of certain sacred cows (so to speak). But, of course, in this particular case one cannot even make such a judgement — for the pertinent information has been censored. No surprise that the extremists pre-judged it anyway.

    And now companies, law enforcement, Consulates, and Expat Americans world wide are forced to a heightened state of security because South Park allegedly ran out of enough material to keep their product in the spotlight they had to grab the brass ring of guarenteed[sic] controversy?
    — 1) You seem to be assuming a lot, there. The only threats made were against the South Park studio. 2) Again, you are displaying a view of their intent that is A) unsupported by any facts; and, B) seems to indicate a certain amount of ignorance as to what this show has always been about. As with any good satirists, they look for the inanity within the commonplace; they turn a mirror towards the human race and say, “Look at how silly we all are!”

    Icy Texan (2d6ef1)

  20. Icy

    Well, living in Arabia with Kids in Cairo right now for a track meet and about to go out shopping and dinner – wish me luck!

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  21. Comment by EricPWJohnson — 4/23/2010 @ 4:42 am
    I wonder why South Park would choose to permanently lose a 1.2 billion person market – many of these in rapidly evolving countries – now muslims who still want South Park – would have to under penalty of death.
    — You sure don’t hesitate to put the cart before the horse, do you? Americans the world over have to go on high alert; Muslim leaders are banning anything related to the show. Hyperbole much, Mr. Johnson? BTW, I’m confused; is their rapid evolution being completely reversed by this shameless blasphemy that was perpetrated by these two thoughtless Americans with their scissors and construction paper? How “rapidly” are they really evolving if THIS “INCIDENT” results in the issuance of a death penalty for possession of a Cartman plushie? “Respect mah authoritay!” indeed.

    [Sorry. In order to get that last reference you would have to actually watch the show .]

    I mean – south park could have done an episode on the murderous tendencies of the Kennedys. They could have done an episode on all the drunk drugged Kennedys that have passed away over the years.
    — 1) They HAVE made reference to the Kennedys. 2) The other thing they could do is WHATEVER THEY CHOOSE TO DO WHILE EXERCISING THEIR CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH!

    They could have tackled the gay priest raping catholic boys thing.
    — They did, many years ago.

    Heck even the Hollywood tendency to let above average producers rape little girls, plead guilty to a minor offense and refuse to do a minimum amount of jail time, etc . . .
    — They’ve done sleazy Hollywood, too.

    Lots of places South Park could “Show” their courage. Just they would lose market share and not get any press for it. To me – it smacks of a simple grab for the ring for cash not for free speech.
    — That’s a pretty neat trick: they’re making a cash grab AND losing market share at the same time? Oh wait, you’re saying that they would lose market share by picking a less controversial topic. But, before you said that they were alienating the potentially huge Muslim market with THIS controvery. Guess they can’t win for losing, eh?

    Icy Texan (2d6ef1)

  22. living in Arabia with Kids in Cairo right now for a track meet and about to go out shopping and dinner – wish me luck!
    Comment by EricPWJohnson — 4/23/2010 @ 5:38 am

    — I wish you health & happiness & safety & long life . . . something that is increasingly possible in a world that respects the freedom of the individual.

    Icy Texan (2d6ef1)

  23. . . . and EPWJ has implicitly admitted that he lives in a corner of the world that doesn’t respect the freedom of the individual.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  24. He habitually trots out his current residence, Bradley – and always at the most convenient times. Who cares where he lives?

    I’m wondering what Comedy Central’s Chief Puppet (Stewart) and his writers will have to say about this egregious display of corporate censorship.

    (crickets chirping)

    Dmac (21311c)

  25. Meanwhile, liberal artists put Christian symbols in urine jars at taxpayers’ expense.

    Alta Bob (e8af2b)

  26. Well, I guess I can see Eric’s point a little bit. I mean, we wouldn’t want a Muslim extremist to start killing Americans now, would we?

    The way Nidal Hasan did . . .

    here in Texas.

    Icy Texan (2d6ef1)

  27. Comedy Central is MSNBC and violent muslims are Keith Olberman.

    Except Olberman has never killed anyone.

    MU789 (25b69d)

  28. Here is one thing I do not understand.

    People are perfectly willing to use terrorist threats to compel censorship of a cartoon.

    And yet, no one uses terrorists threats to stop eminent domain abuse ? Or the imprisonment of innocent people ?

    Why not?

    And since terrorist threats are effective in compelling censorship, why not use them to stop eminent domain abuse, the imprisonment of innocent people , or other causes that are actually good?

    Michael Ejercito (6a1582)

  29. Remember that the original cartoon uproar was orchestrated by radical clerics months, and maybe a year (I forget), after the cartoons were actually shown.

    You don’t even have to show the insult to Islam since Newsweek is always around to make up a story like the Korans in the toilets (that don’t flush in Gitmo).

    If anybody in the Arab countries watches South Park, they will still be watching in a year unless some Arab “leader” chooses to make a fuss for political reasons.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  30. I must not fear.
    Fear is the mind-killer.
    Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
    I will face my fear.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
    Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
    Only I will remain.

    Frank Herbert or David Lynch?

    ———

    Wrong… it’s Jimmy Piersall.

    GeneralMalaise (24d3e0)

  31. “Except Olberman has never killed anyone.”

    Let’s not make a rush to judgment about that until all the facts are in.

    GeneralMalaise (24d3e0)

  32. I’m just waiting for the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to issue their version of a fatwa against Parker and Stone for their upcoming Broadway musical about the Book of Mormon.

    GeneralMalaise (24d3e0)

  33. Is that true? I have to admit that their episode on the Mormon religion was truly hilarious. And the ending point of the episode was quite reasonable.

    Dmac (21311c)

  34. I thought the Emergency Broadcast System had been engaged.

    Comedy Central should be ashamed of itself. Matt and Trey should end their relationship and take South Park elsewhere. Call Kelsey Grammer ….

    East Coast Chris (ded5f2)

  35. Islam is evil. Islam is a gutter religion. Death to all Muslims. The prophet Mohammed was a pedophile.

    9/11 survivor (ded5f2)

  36. The prophet Mohammed was a pedophile.

    I don’t know if you’re attempting to sound super non-politically correct, like a liberal (but, of course, in the safety of the Western world) trying to parrot the words of what he or she perceives as Christian extremists (and capitalists and imperialists too!). Westerners who are mean and heartless to little ol’ sad, dejected, Third-World-ized Islamism. Regardless, if Mohammed were merely into molesting children, that wouldn’t have been quite as sickening as what he was in reality.

    Another thing: in all the years the Western World (and elsewhere) has been debating the pros and cons of the religion of Mohammed — certainly post-9-11 — I’ve rarely if ever heard the true nature of the background of the founder of Islam. Worse of all, I recall George Bush implying it was a religion of peace. I vaguely recall even Patterico giving some leeway to that particular religion.

    In this case, ignorance isn’t and shouldn’t be seen as bliss.

    faithfreedom.org:

    Today the world is shocked to learn that some Muslims feel that the only way to deal with the critics of Islam is to assassinate them. In 1989, Khomeini issued a fatwa (religious decree) to assassinate Salman Rushdie, because Rushdie had written a book, The Satanic Verses, that some believed insulted Islam.

    What most people don’t know is that assassination was Muhammad’s way of dealing with his opponents. Today’s Muslim assassins are merely following their prophet’s example.

    Ka’b bin Ashraf was one of Muhammad’s victims. As Muslim historians have reported, he was young and handsome, a talented poet and a chief of the Banu Nadir, one of the Jewish tribes of Medina. After Muhammad banished the Banu Qainuqa’, another Jewish tribe of Medina, Ka’b became concerned about his own people’s security vis-à-vis the Muslims, so he visited Mecca to seek protection. He composed poems and praised the Meccans for their bravery and honor. When Muhammad heard about this, he went to the mosque, and after the prayer, said:

    “Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allâh and His Apostle?”

    Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, “O Allâh’s Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?”

    The Prophet said, “Yes.” Muhammad bin Maslama said, “Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Ka’b).” The Prophet said, “You may say it.”

    The Prophet of Allâh not only encouraged assassination, he advocated deception and treachery, as well.

    Another victim of Muhammad’s assassination operations was an old man called Abu Afak, who was said to be 120 years old. He composed poetry, some of which lamented that people had become followers of Muhammad. He wrote that Muhammad was a crazed man who arbitrarily told people what was prohibited and what was allowed, and who had caused them to surrender their intelligence and become hostile to one another. Ibn Sa’d reports this story as follows:

    Then occurred the “sariyyah” [raid] of Salim Ibn Umayr al-Amri against Abu Afak, the Jew, in [the month of] Shawwal in the beginning of the twentieth month from the hijrah [immigration from Mecca to Medina in AD 622], of the Apostle of Allâh. Abu Afak, was from Banu Amr Ibn Awf, and was an old man who had attained the age of one hundred and twenty years. He was a Jew, and used to instigate the people against the Apostle of Allâh, and composed (satirical) verses [about Muhammad].

    Salim Ibn Umayr who was one of the great weepers and who had participated in Badr, said, “I take a vow that I shall either kill Abu Afak or die before him. He waited for an opportunity until a hot night came, and Abu Afak slept in an open place. Salim Ibn Umayr knew it, so he placed the sword on his liver and pressed it till it reached his bed. The enemy of Allâh screamed and the people who were his followers, rushed to him, took him to his house and interred him.

    The only “crime” this aged man had committed was in composing satirical verses critical of Muhammad.

    When Asma bint Marwan, a Jewish mother of five small children heard about this, she was so outraged that she composed a poem cursing the men of Medina for letting a stranger divide them and for allowing him to assassinate a venerable old man.

    Again Muhammad went to the pulpit and cried out:

    “Who will rid me of Marwan’s daughter?” `Umayr bin. `Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her.

    In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he [Muhammad] said, “You have helped Allâh and His apostle, O `Umayr!”

    After receiving praise from Muhammad for the assassination of Asma, the killer went to her children, bragged about committing the murder, and taunted those little kids and the clan of the victim.

    After these assassinations, Muslims in Medina became more boastful, arrogant and imperious, as they had cast terror in the hearts of their opponents. [Muhammad] wanted to send the message that any opposition or criticism of him could mean death.

    Mark (411533)

  37. Dmac

    I also live in Texas and Tennessee and next week I’m flying home and will be at west Point Visiting my oldest.

    Having to leave my two younger children and my wife in the Gulf when two people stoke the fires to provoke something – I know – I’m supposed to go along with it and all – but I guess those that dont live here or work with them for decades have greater insight that people I live and work with.

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  38. Than the people I work with Sorry – dont type while on the phone

    And BTW at the Villiagio mall on the TV monitors in the Food Court – guess what was on all 60 TV Screens

    Anyone want to take a wild guess?

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  39. “And BTW at the Villiagio mall on the TV monitors in the Food Court – guess what was on all 60 TV Screens

    Anyone want to take a wild guess?”

    umm… that long running soap opera “The Days of our Intifada”?

    GeneralMalaise (24d3e0)

  40. Somewhere this has nothing to do with terrorism, intifada, Nidal Hassan – it has to do with a fading TV Show which makes money – ginning u ratings by trying to stoke a worldwide controversy at my and many others expense.

    People were upset – here on this blog and many others concerning the over the top antics of the press DELIBERATELY stoking the islamic radicals by misreporting and exagerating the Abu Gharab and the flushing of the Koran.

    But – if two guys plan an episode focused on really enraging the islamic fundamentalists – naturally its okay

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  41. They shouldn’t make cartoons about Poor Old Mohammed either, should they, Eric?

    JD (5375e6)

  42. JD

    And what woud that point be?

    Whats the purpose?

    To me – publishing political cartoon in DENMARK – for something that pertains to ARABIA – was for what purpose?

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  43. “Meanwhile, liberal artists put Christian symbols in urine jars at taxpayers’ expense.”

    have you ever seen the piece?

    imdw (1635c7)

  44. What is the point of any political cartoon then? You really are hysterical sometimes, and not in the funny sense.

    Did you ever pay up on the Breitbart bet?

    JD (5375e6)

  45. “But – if two guys plan an episode focused on really enraging the islamic fundamentalists – naturally its okay.”

    Once this story hit the airwaves, the free-world media should have plastered cartoons, images, everything-but-the-kitchensink on Muhammad everywhere. But that would’ve taken courage and beaucoup balls.

    GeneralMalaise (24d3e0)

  46. JD

    So what was the intentionalism of the Danish cartoons?

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  47. #46 makes no sense.

    What was the intent? Ask the author.

    JD (5375e6)

  48. GeneralMalaise

    So you are in favor of trying to endanger the lives – INTENTIONALLY – of Americans everywhere – by – INTENTIONALLY – wishing for an all out assault on Islam.

    Imagine if we made laws that all Catholic Priests must be naked while in church (That was the analogy given to me by an Arab American)

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  49. Poking fun at Mohammed is intentionally endangering the lives of Americans all over the globe? I do not recall anyone calling for an all out assault on Islam, and do not recall anything about laws being made about Islam, so that “analogy” is silly. Look, the list of things South Park has not made fun of is significantly shorter than the list of things that they have poked fun at. if a freaking comedy show or a cartoon generates death threats, then maybe the moderate Muslims should retake their religion from those that would kill people over a cartoon.

    JD (5375e6)

  50. Here is what Trey and Matt had to say …

    In the 14 years we’ve been doing South Park we have never done a show that we couldn’t stand behind. We delivered our version of the show to Comedy Central and they made a determination to alter the episode. It wasn’t some meta-joke on our part. Comedy Central added the bleeps. In fact, Kyle’s customary final speech was about intimidation and fear. It didn’t mention Muhammad at all but it got bleeped too. We’ll be back next week with a whole new show about something completely different and we’ll see what happens to it.

    Just so we are clear here, Eric. They were the ones threatened. Not all Americans. They were threatened with a likely result like Van Gogh, according to the nice misunderstood young man that would kill someone over a cartoon.

    JD (5375e6)

  51. I think i have figured out what we can do about this:

    FREE SPEECH JIHAD.

    See, it works like this. we act all batsh– crazy and say that if anyone dares to censor south park, we will suicide bomb them. Now mind you, we would probably have to actually kill a few people, but oh well.

    there, problem solved. You’re welcome.

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  52. JD

    Danes were assaulted some killed because of the cartoons

    Including some others mistaken for Danes – and also the outrage is still burning

    The difference is the Danes felt it was for freedom of speech – th creators of South Park did it for freedom of continued revenue streams

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  53. And that is the fault of the Danes?!?!?!?!

    This is surreal.

    JD (5375e6)

  54. Well, living in Arabia with Kids in Cairo right now for a track meet and about to go out shopping and dinner – wish me luck! Comment by EricPWJohnson

    Sounds like you’re suffering from a bit of Stockholm Syndrome mixed in with a dash of “when in Rome do as the Romans do.” In this case, if “Rome” is a society enthralled with Islamism, I’d rather not do what they do (or believe in) and would try to get out ASAP.

    The secularized, socialized people of the Western World (“The Third World, and its religions, requires our special care, consideration and rationalizations!”) and the Islamicized, fascist-ized folks of the Middle East (“Death to America!”) deserve one another. They’re a match made in heaven.

    Mark (411533)

  55. Freedom of speech should be curtailed and no mention should ever be made of the Prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him, for fear of getting murdered?!

    JD (5375e6)

  56. “So you are in favor of trying to endanger the lives – INTENTIONALLY – of Americans everywhere – by – INTENTIONALLY – wishing for an all out assault on Islam.”

    Help me understand something here, PW… so you conflate cartoons and images of Muhammed with “an all out assault on Islam”???

    Sheesh.

    GeneralMalaise (24d3e0)

  57. Sorry, PW… I don’t think I could stomach working in an area of the world where women are routinely stoned to death for taste in clothing… or being victims of rape… or unchaperoned dating… or etc., ad nauseum… where homosexuals are routinely executed… where followers of other religions are routinely murdered as infidels.

    I tolerate the beliefs of others, but draw the line when their own lack of tolerance infringes on the ability of others to continue drawing breath.

    GeneralMalaise (24d3e0)

  58. If I said that the Prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him, was a pedophilic goat-buggerer, would it be reasonable for me to fear for my life? Would that make Patterico’s Pontifications a likely target of the same murdering thugs that killed Van Gogh, or threatened Parker & Stone?

    JD (5375e6)

  59. Excellent points made in post #54, Mark.

    GeneralMalaise (24d3e0)

  60. The Danes are heroic.

    You have to stand up to these monsters or we become controlled by them. I don’t want to be rude, but not standing up to them is very similar to *being* one of them.

    The best thing we could do is carpet the planet in an image of their prophet. Let believers ‘submit’ to their views, but free speech is simply important enough to risk lives over. Blaming the victim is actually creating more victims, in my opinion.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  61. Eric

    > So you are in favor of trying to endanger the lives – INTENTIONALLY – of Americans everywhere – by – INTENTIONALLY – wishing for an all out assault on Islam.

    Dude, you do understand the difference between an assault and a word, right? Like if I say you are a fascist apologizing idiot, I haven’t assaulted you, I have bad mouthed you.

    What is the point of a first amendment if you think we should censor ourselves rather than be murdered?

    Is that how we should get our way in this society? Agree with me or I will suicide bomb you? Apparently tea partiers like me had it all wrong. When accused of being violent, what we should have said was, “yes we are. and if you pass this socialistic health care reform, we will suicide bomb you.” Apparently you think terrorism should work.

    > Imagine if we made laws that all Catholic Priests must be naked while in church (That was the analogy given to me by an Arab American)

    Then your friend is an idiot. No one is forcing any muslim to do anything, except to tolerate whatever we say about our faith and to refrain from killing people over it

    I mean seriously, am I not remembering correct. Weren’t liberals the ones who said that it was okay not only for someone to make The Piss Christ, but they felt the taxpayers had to pay for it, too? but a private individual wants to make The Piss Mohammed, and suddenly those same liberals call out for self-censorship.

    Hense my swiftian modest proposal for a free speech jihad.

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  62. wishing for an all out assault on Islam.

    I wonder if many out there in the worst corners of the world actually think this way. That SP was just so interested in being edgy that it WANTS people to get killed. Let’s not forget that it’s not random people who get killed in these cases, it’s the artists themselves.

    I’m sure Matt and Trey will be looking over their shoulder a bit for the rest of their weird lives, and were not actually hoping people die so as to boost the ratings of an already very successful program.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  63. And some evidence for that is just how mild their treatment of Islam has been.

    If they wanted to create problems, they wouldn’t act like they are carefully pointing out even mild depiction is screamed at.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  64. Mark

    Dont accuse me of sympathizing with terrorists – thanks

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  65. 58

    In Any Arab country you would be arrested, tried and probably executed and then deported in two shipments – MOST OF THE TIME – the courts to avoid international incidents – would have you deported as mentally unstable (got to agree – it would be crazy to do such a stunt)

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  66. Eric, I don’t think you like killers, but it’s sad to see someone accept this obviously unfair slant you seem to believe.

    I hope you watch South Park (safely) and learn to appreciate it. While it’s crude, it’s amazing social commentary.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  67. I did not say in an Arab country. I am sitting here right in the Midwest. Trey and Matt were in NY and LA, I assume, and had their lives threatened.

    JD (5375e6)

  68. Eric

    No, you don’t sympathize with terrorists. you just want to give in to them.

    So i expect you to convert to islam, soon. force your woman to war a burqa. if you are gay, fake straightness. and then force the woman to wear a burqa. abolish the constitution and replace it with a theocracy, and so on.

    i mean if you are going to surrender, why do it halfway?

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  69. We should have a committee formed – consisting of people who threaten murder, commit murder, and random splodeydopes – to judge, in advance (prior restraint if you will) what is acceptable to say about Mohammed, the pedophilic goat-buggerer.

    JD (5375e6)

  70. Comedy Central was just following the lead of other media outlets in the U.S.

    Remember all those newspapers that showed the cartoons that caused all the trouble? You would think if you were doing a story about riots and killings because of the cartoons it would be a good idea to let readers know what those cartoons look like.

    Or if you are a news channel it would make sense to flash the cartoons on the screen during a story about the riots so people can understand what the big deal is.

    And when Yale Press publishes a book about the cartoons and the aftereffects from their original publication, of course it would make total sense to include the cartoons in the book.

    But of course I know of no domestic newspaper that published the cartoons except one at the University of Illinois. And I do not recall CNN or MSNBC or FNC showing all the cartoons on a news show. And the topper is Yale Press decided it was too dangerous to reprint the cartoons in the book about the cartoons.

    A crucifix in a bottle of urine is safe to broadcast and print but cartoons, no way.

    The media in this country is not worthy of the first amendment.

    MU789 (25b69d)

  71. JD

    > the pedophilic goat-buggerer

    Now, just to clarify, are you saying that he was into underage goats?

    and just what is the age of consent for a goat?

    (sorry, couldn’t resist the urge to goof on it.)

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  72. JD

    No, they did not “get” their lives threatened – we are forgetting the “intentionalism”

    I think someone who knowing full well what the response would be then doing it for money….

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  73. How about a picture of a statue of Mohammad in a bottle of urine?

    Heh. Mo ham mad

    htom (412a17)

  74. Dustin

    This is EXACTLY what the creators of SP want – publicity for their fading series

    Nothing more – nothing less

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  75. If I call eric johnson a coward I think that would be an apt description and much less offrnsive than calling him a pussy who wanted to bow his head for murderers in hopes of getting killed last.

    Mr. Pink (feb412)

  76. their fading series

    Back that one up.

    And explain why they have ALWAYS been doing this throughout their entire syndication, if this is a recent attempt to bolster something.

    “Nothing more” how can you seriously claim that? You haven’t watched much of their work if you believe that. It’s just not the truth.

    Now, I admit, they had to know this would get some nutjobs to threaten them. Their intent was to stand tall against such evil, despite the risks. You could blame them, because the nutjobs are basically braindead animals, but I applaud them and blame those who don’t stand with them.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  77. Dont accuse me of sympathizing with terrorists – thanks

    Well, I hope you at least feel revulsion towards Islam, a religion whose founder was an out-and-out assassin and supporter of assasinations.

    Again, how many people throughout the media, if not throughout the public in general, are aware of the history of Mohammed? In scrutinizing his background, I’ve become far more aware that the mealy-mouthed statement of, for example, George W Bush that Islam was a “religion of peace” truly indicates ignorance or even dishonesty.

    Come to think of it, if one wants to pin lies or disengenuity upon the Bush White House, the statement about Mohammed’s “religion of peace” should be cited, NOT any claims about Hussein, Iraq and weapons of mass destruction.

    Mark (411533)

  78. Isn’t it your intent to reward Islamofacists by pinning the blame on those who speak very mildly and are threatened? You have to realize that’s the true reason these threats exist and artists are being murdered.

    Your intent has to be something like ‘let’s not upset the nutjobs too much, they are scary’. I think that’s obviously aware of the impact it has on the nutjobs (to inspire more evil).

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  79. by the way, I’m glad you’re talking about the intentionalism aspect. I think it’s very illuminating, actually, about how responsible we are for predictable reactions of bad people.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  80. No, they did not “get” their lives threatened – we are forgetting the “intentionalism”

    That is a lie. They most certainly did have their lives threatened.

    The idea that they are lampooning someone just for profit is laughable. They have made fun of everyone on God’s green earth in South Park. You have to be completely unaware of the show to think that Mohammed the pedophilic goat-buggerer is being singled out.

    Pay your bets. That is all.

    JD (9f2abc)

  81. derkha derkha…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wmw8UB4HCU

    GeneralMalaise (24d3e0)

  82. Abu Talhah al Amrikee, the author of the post [on the Muslim website threatening the creators of the show], told Foxnews.com he wrote the entry to “raise awareness.” He said the grisly photograph of van Gogh was meant to “explain the severity” of what Parker and Stone did by mocking Muhammad.

    “It’s not a threat, but it really is a likely outcome,” al Amrikee said, referring to the possibility that Parker and Stone could be murdered for mocking Muhammad. “They’re going to be basically on a list in the back of the minds of a large number of Muslims. It’s just the reality.”

    Why, it would be ridiculous to think that was a threat.

    JD (9f2abc)

  83. Has that little racist turd James O’Keefe been thrown in prison yet?

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  84. th creators of South Park did it for freedom of continued revenue streams

    Two facts – their series is in no measurable way “fading,” and they’re already millionnaires many times over, they only do the series for their own pleasure at this point. Stop erecting that strawman, he’s been blown down enough at this point.

    Your continued contortions regarding your weasely view of Islam is duly noted – and you’re pathetic.

    Dmac (21311c)

  85. Still waiting on Breitbart to be indicted too, daleyrocks.

    JD (9f2abc)

  86. A prediction… a fatwa will soon be declared on the stone in PW Johnson’s shoe.

    GeneralMalaise (24d3e0)

  87. Pay your bets. That is all.

    Comment by JD

    JD, there’s no way someone would so viciously attack the honor of the SP staff, people who are actually being threatened for continuing to speak, while also being a welcher.

    That’s just too much to believe.

    EPWJ, is there a chance you can at least admit there’s a possible way the SP people are actually doing this for freedom of speech? Can you see why that’s also a valid possibility, even if the consequences are hard for some to stomach?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  88. Oh, and Eric? Just to complete your complete ignorance of the show’s history, here’s a quick list just off the top of my head of the many groups that they’ve offended repeatedly over the past decade:

    – Blacks
    – Jews
    – Christians
    – Rednecks
    – Gay Men
    – Lesbians
    – Dogs
    – Cats
    – Aliens
    – Cows
    – Horses
    – Sally Struthers
    – Global Warminists
    – Kathy Lee Gifford
    – That douchey psychic that used to be on some cable network
    – Natural and/or organic “Healers” and products
    – Residents of San Francisco
    – The local Police
    – Our Military
    – Canadians
    – Residents of Ethiopia
    – Disabled children
    – Children with stuttering problems
    – Poor Children
    – Tom Cruise
    – David Blaine (the magician)

    You have no knowledge of the show, it’s content and subjects. You’re proved beyond a shadow of the doubt to be a complete ignoramus of this entire thread.

    Dmac (21311c)

  89. Eric

    I take it back.

    You DO sympathize with terrorism. why else would you carry so much water for them? To quote your toadying response:

    > I think someone who knowing full well what the response would be then doing it for money….

    That is a thought unfit for a free man. I don’t care what their intentions are. They should be free to say whatever they want.

    Seriously, “knowing full well what the response would be?”

    When Martin Luther King marched for freedom, he did it “knowing full well what the response would be.” He knew every day of his life he was likely to die. He did anyway and we are better for it.

    When Britian allied with Poland and warned the Nazis that if they invaded their new allies, that it would be war, they did it “knowing full well what the response would be.” They knew that war was a very likely outcome. They did it anyway and we are better for it.

    When our founding fathers signed the Declaration of Independance, they did it “knowing full well what the response would be.” They did it anyway, and again we are better for it.

    We are free men and women today because people stood up to the tyranny under the threat of violence. And you dishoner every man, woman and child who fought or died to give you freedom, when you are so ready to squander it away.

    The makers of South Park are patriots. And you are such a coward you apparently have convinced yourself cowardice is a virtue to be emulated.

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  90. See, these terrorists are “a” and Eric’s a “p” and Trey and Matt are “d”s.

    Sometimes the p doesn’t like the d, because ps get f’d by ds. But ds ALSO f a. And if we don’t let these ds f these a’s we will have s all over everything.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  91. It’s easy when you put it that way. Bravo, A.W.

    Birdbath (8501d4)

  92. Dustin, A.W.

    SP decided to write this – DECIDED – to

    Knowing full well what the cosequences would be – as more people are watchig the program as it generates publicity – then it makes even more money

    This is different than a college student writing an essay over the supression of women in Arabia

    Trying to paint the Muslim world as well with a brush in this thread that they are all Fatwa followers is also ot helpful (not that you are doing it but others are and this is wrong)

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  93. Sounds like a good name for a rock band… FatwaFollowers.

    GeneralMalaise (24d3e0)

  94. You didn’t clear up the misunderstanding that resulted from your conflation of cartoons and images of Muhammed with “an all out assault on Islam”, EricPWJohnson. Or did you mean to equate them?

    GeneralMalaise (24d3e0)

  95. Eric – You are the one that started in with the outright hysterical statements about Trey and Matt putting all Americans across the globe at risk. Nobody here is putting all Muslims in any category of Fatwa Followers, though the people that threatened Trey and Matt most certainly did when they said ““They’re going to be basically on a list in the back of the minds of a large number of Muslims. It’s just the reality.”

    What other powers would you like to cede to the splodeydopes?

    JD (9f2abc)

  96. Plus also cartoons are funny.

    happyfeet (c8caab)

  97. JD

    “intentionlism” = profit and I’m not referring to Mohammed

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  98. Remember, PW… “A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones.” Quran 2:24

    GeneralMalaise (24d3e0)

  99. I have one… the Fatwa Dhimmis…

    GeneralMalaise (24d3e0)

  100. Dustin

    Well, let’s not forget that sometimes a P gets so full of S it becomes an A. I think Eric is close to that level.

    wait, we are talking Team America code, right?

    Eric

    A useful idiot like you would have called Martin Luther King a publicity whore and blamed him for his own murder. I get it. You are a toady to terrorists. So why don’t you just committ and go live in Iran? You are unfit to live in a free nation.

    You are a moral idiot.

    A.W. (f97997)

  101. “intentionlism” = profit and I’m not referring to Mohammed

    What in the world does this mean?! Is this even English?

    How about answering 2 simple questions, Eric. What other rights are you willing to cede to people that would kill you because of a cartoon, and when are you going to pay that bet you lost?

    JD (9f2abc)

  102. JD

    I cede that people will try to kill me for just being a christian….

    EricPWJohnson (1d0270)

  103. Strike as being non-responsive, or responsive to a question not really asked, unless you are claiming a right to be killed for being a Christian.

    Not going to pay the bet you lost, huh?

    This should make your head assplode.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/23/its-on-everybody-draw-mohammed-day-set-for-may-20th/

    JD (9f2abc)

  104. LAT has a very good commentary on this.

    Free speech, in all its messy, profane, heretical, offensive, irritating and soul-stirring glory, built this country. And whether it’s “South Park” or the State of the Union, we, as a nation, must rise to defend it.

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  105. “I think someone who knowing full well what the response would be then doing it for money….”

    EricPW – Are we required to follow the dictates of the Islamic religion or Islamic law in this country?

    Assuming we have not surrendered to religious censorship of our media and culture, why the f*c* shouldn’t South Park say whatever they want on their show. Are we supposed to be a nation of cowards because of an intolerant religion? Is that what you are suggesting?

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  106. Yes, daleyrocks, that is exactly what he is suggesting.

    He would hand over the 1st Amendment to the splodeydopes.

    JD (9f2abc)

  107. It immensely rich that it’s Comedy Central – the original home of smart ass offenders Jon Stewart and Bill Maher – that chickens out. They have no problem insulting Christ or Buddha or women or Republicans or any other targeted group without a second thought but to see them then cower in fear now – instead of standing defiantly for the greatest freedom we have here in America just serves to remind me that they are essentially like the trolls who online act like bad ass toughies, mouthy and brazen but you know would never, ever behave in the same manner when face to face. Comedy Central is a part of the problem, as are those who believe that rolling over and showing our belly to this enemy in submission is the way to go.

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  108. Dana – That’s different. Heh!

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  109. Hopefully RightNetwork will have something that competes with Comedy Central’s Stewart and Colbert.

    DRJ (09fa6c)

  110. The trailers are pretty good but I’m old so what do I know.

    DRJ (09fa6c)

  111. “The trailers are pretty good but I’m old so what do I know.”

    DRJ – Respectfully, can you stop saying you’re old. I think we’re around the same age and I don’t want to go there yet. My kids tell me enough.

    daleyrocks (1d0d98)

  112. DRJ, I want to be hopeful about the RightNetwork, and The Corner link reveals a surprisingly possible level of snark and fun but I always cringe a bit when the right tries to be edgy, hip or have some bite. We just do it badly. I think it’s a fear of offending or being lamblasted by – gasp! – the MSM. Because that never happens.

    Hopefully we’ll all be pleasantly surprised by this venture.

    Dana (1e5ad4)

  113. They may not be terrorist sympathizers, but they are definitely terrorist collaborators.

    htom (412a17)

  114. Free speech, in all its messy, profane, heretical, offensive, irritating and soul-stirring glory, built this country. And whether it’s “South Park” or the State of the Union, we, as a nation, must rise to defend it.

    The L.A. Times knows that how we react to this will determine whether or not we can speak freely as a society, or if violence becomes an acceptable political tactic.

    Michael Ejercito (6a1582)

  115. Hirsi Ali speaks out on Anderson Cooper. Sound and fearless.

    Dana (1e5ad4)


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