Patterico's Pontifications

4/6/2010

Health Care Fallout in New Hampshire

Filed under: Economics,Health Care,Obama — DRJ @ 9:11 am

[Guest post by DRJ]

Several large companies including AT&T, John Deere, and Caterpillar recently announced higher anticipated costs because of ObamaCare, but they aren’t the only businesses expecting costs to increase. Seasonal employers like ski resorts — businesses that typically rely on part-time or short-term workers who aren’t covered by health care policies — will also be affected. Take, for instance, New Hampshire:

The state’s seasonal tourism industry is only now beginning to realize that it could get hammered by the new health care reform law.

The bill signed into law on Tuesday by President Barack Obama fines businesses that do not provide health insurance to full-time employees who work more than 120 days a year. The assessment is $2,000 per employee, which, according to SkiNH lobbyist Bruce Berke and group president Alice Pearce, could mean as much as $1 million in fines to the big ski resorts, some of which hire as many as 500 seasonal workers.

Also affected would be any business that hires on a seasonal basis, and, like most nationally, do not offer health insurance.”

New Hampshire resorts have asked their Senators to try to reinstate the $750/person fines for employees working 150 days as set forth in the original Senate bill, instead of the $2,000/person fines for 120 day workers contained in the reconciliation package:

“SkiNH is asking Sens. Judd Gregg and Jeanne Shaheen to support returning to the original Senate parameters because, Pearce and Berke say, it would have minimal impact on their industry.

Otherwise, Pearce said, it will be up to each ski resort (and presumably, seasonal attractions statewide) to figure out how to handle it. The choices are pretty clear, either increase prices or cut costs, which could mean hiring fewer workers next winter.”

New Hampshire isn’t the only State facing this problem:

“The new provision has ski areas and the hotel and lodging industry nationally concerned.

In Colorado, a Steamboat Springs official said it could cost that resort as much as $2 million a year.”

This sounds bleak for resorts and the leisure industry. Not only is it hard to find people with the money to take vacations, now they also face fines for each worker. I also wonder if ObamaCare applies to cruise lines that sail to and from U.S. ports. With many ships sailing with onboard physicians, do cruise lines provide health insurance for all their workers and, if not, what will this do to their bottom line?

– DRJ

117 Responses to “Health Care Fallout in New Hampshire”

  1. Cruise crews (??) are not covered under US law except for the Pride of America cruising from Honolulu. It is a US flagged ship and must comply with US law. Generally the cruise lines are covered under maritime law.

    However, they do provide health services for their employees while they are working.

    Jim (582155)

  2. I’d actually end up laughing if it tanked the ski industry in Colorado. Those towns are chock-full of limousine liberals who over the last 20-30 years have created nice little oligarchic havens for themselves, catered to by large numbers of poor immigrants both legal and illegal.

    Another Chris (2d8013)

  3. Predictable. Obamacare enters from stage right with a top hat, tails, tap shoes and a cane;

    Rataratatata, ratatatatata…chicka chicka boom!

    Key in the gong from the Gong Show and here comes the hook – exit stage left….

    Pelosi nailed it when she said with a straight face;

    “If you want to know what’s in the bill you will have to vote for it.

    I think we are going to require more than one hook for this clown show!

    vet66 (4e0dda)

  4. New Hampshire voted for hope and change in 2008. Now they got it. C’est la vie.

    Zoltan (aa0da2)

  5. Simple enough. Hire one group for the first 100 days of the ski season, hire another group for the second 100 days. Job security? Pshaw!

    luagha (5cbe06)

  6. Better yet, swap employees with another resort at the 100 day mark!

    luagha (5cbe06)

  7. Glenn Reynolds had a column saying that with the many volumes of laws and regulations we are governed by, there is no way lawmakers can conceive of all the consequences of new legislation. So you get things like burdens on certain industries and those industries hire lobbyists to get those same lawmakers to give them an exemption.

    So Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank will get campaign contributions from those wanting to be relieved of the burdens of this legislation and everyone will be happy.

    MU789 (00e597)

  8. How long before we have a GM/AIG-style “bail-out” of the resort industry?
    Can’t wait until all the lift personnel, and ski-instructors are wearing SEIU turtle-necks.

    Oh-Bah-Mah….Leader of the new Ah-Mer-Ee-Key…President for Life!

    AD - RtR/OS! (cf9e75)

  9. New Hampshirites (?) are not happy campers, to the surprise (uh, duh) of their Representatives (from PowerLine):

    Politico begins its story about the rough reception two New Hampshire Democrats who voted for Obamacare have received from their constituents this way:

    If the experience of this state’s two Democratic House members is any indication, the raw emotion and mistrust emanating from last summer’s congressional town halls never really went away.

    As the kids say nowadays, “Ya think!?”

    I’m not sure why anyone thought it might have. All that has changed since last summer’s town hall is (1) the Democrats enacted legislation disfavored by a clear majority of Americans and (2) they did so with the help of a series of unsavory back room deals.

    Says Catanese, the public events attended by Shea-Porter and Hodes “provided a bracing reminder to Democrats that the political pivot from health care to economic and financial issues is going to be much more arduous than they expected.” Indeed, “voters expressed profound cynicism and suspicion not just about the legislation, but about Washington, government and virtually everything that came out of their legislators’ mouths.”

    Sounds like Tea Parties and summer of 09 town halls again Can anyone say “Arlen Specter live in Philly”?

    Imagine that.

    But Catanese hasn’t abandoned Democratic talking altogether. He gives his story about Shea-Porter and Hodes’ travails the fretful title, “Spring forecast: Incivility with a chance of rage.”

    MD in Philly (59a3ad)

  10. One would hope that most KongressKritters would respond positively to theraputic doses of tar & feathers.

    AD - RtR/OS! (cf9e75)

  11. many nortern states schedule road work during summer monthes.these are private contractors and i believe the term of employment is the contract length.governments that want the lowest bid are likely to break the job into less than 120 day parts.employers are likely to avoid keeping the same employee on the payroll on the job for more than 120 days per year even if on different jobs.

    clyde (c6032a)

  12. So they’ll fire them at 119 days and get another. It’s not like they’re in short supply.

    mojo (8096f2)

  13. Problems with ski resorts are bad enough, but consider sun-belt States which experience significant annual snowbird migrations. Large percentages of local workers depend on seasonal jobs providing services to out-of-state visitors. How ObamaCare might adversely impact Florida’s vacation fueled economy is yet to be uncovered.

    ropelight (07ae90)

  14. Related news out today is that teen unemployment right now is 26%, and expected to worse as the summer gets closer, with more teens out looking for work.

    I wonder if anyone on the Dem side of the aisle will acknowledge that a minimum wage rate about $7 a hour, combined with the requirement to provide medical for anyone working more than part time, is a disincentive to employing low-skilled teenage workers.

    I had a job every summer from the time I was 14 years old. That seems almost impossible in today’s “labor/wage” market.

    shipwreckedcrew (c0d6cd)

  15. New Hampshire voted for hope and change in 2008. Now they got it. C’est la vie.

    Exactly my sentiment.

    Blacque Jacques Shellacque (5ef35b)

  16. As Harry REid said, It’s only money, your money we’re speaking about. Let em eat cake!

    Typical White Person (93120c)

  17. Hope and change is impaling us all in costs, corruption, payola, patronage and paybacks. Now you know why you should never have elected someone from Chicago.

    Eliot Ness was not famous for nothing.

    Typical White Person (93120c)

  18. Many of these seasonal tourism industries are marginally profitable, but have a large multiplying effect on states’ tourist revenues.

    Just another example of the economy-destroying policies of the Democratic party.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  19. [...] Tea Party Protester Won’t Let Jesse Jackson Take His Sign Patterico’s Pontifications: Health Care Fallout in New Hampshire and Killing the American Economy and In Vino Veritas and Senate Passes Reconciliation Bill and [...]

    Waxman the Tyrant Attacks CEOs Who Dare Say ObamaCare Will Cause Company Bankruptcy… Michelle Malkin & Sean Hannity Say It’s Time for a ‘Spartacus Revolution” (video) « Frugal Café Blog Zone (a66042)

  20. [...] Hollywood: Stand Ups for America: Fight the Power With Ridicule Patterico’s Pontifications: Health Care Fallout in New Hampshire and Choosing Sides and The Tea Party and Liberal Hysteria Legal Insurrection: Saturday Night Card [...]

    MSNBC’s Chris Matthews & Yes, More Left-Wing Media Lies: The Word “Regime” & the 6,769 Examples of It Used Against Pres. Bush by Leftist MSM « Frugal Café Blog Zone (a66042)

  21. I am being told by recruiters that 2 part-time employees that exceed the 120 day test counts as 1 full-time employee. I am limited to part-time due to, ironically enough, health issues. My search looks bleak.

    sybilll (aac4ca)

  22. Nobody knew what the hell was going into this damn thing, what a surprise! How many industries are going to be taking hits like this in the next few months? If the GOP was smart they’d start compiling a list of these and weave them into a media campaign as part of their effort for November, but they’re smart enough to have the idea but not smart enough to pull it off well.

    skwiself (b69230)

  23. Hmmm, maybe they could provide insurance for their employees? Gosh what an awful thought that would be. BTW you all act like we are in the financial situation we are in because of Obama. Sorry, but 2 wars, the medicare drug benefit, and tax breaks for the wealthiest of us all are to blame for the hole we are in. Not Obama. They did not have anyway of PAYING for those things, but they passed them anyways. Now you all are surprised at the outcome? Where have you all been for the last 9 years?

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  24. Hooten, you are simply wrong. Utterly, factually wrong.

    The one trillion dollar deficit for the current fiscal year exists because of Obama’s spending. The continuous trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see are based on Obama’s spending.

    The costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars is a fraction of the new spending that Obama himself has added.

    Where have I been for the last 9 years? Exercising basic math skills. What’s your excuse?

    As for your “maybe they could provide insurance” line, that’s a good reminder of Bill Clinton’s assertion that he was not responsible for marginally profitable businesses that his healthcare proposal would put out of business. And its the exact kind of stupid, anti-business, economy and job destroying rhetoric that we expect from Democrats.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  25. Sorry, but 2 wars, the medicare drug benefit, and tax breaks for the wealthiest of us all are to blame for the hole we are in

    Let’s see some links to objective sources to back up that ginormous blowhole of yours. Nothing but rants, no substance. You could start with comparisons of CBO numbers over the past 9 years, since you seem so enamored of that figure. Then let’s see the yearly GNP figures and associated tax figures.

    Let’s see it, all of it.

    Dmac (21311c)

  26. What a shocker – Obamacare raises costs? You’d think there’s gambling at Rick’s.

    These idiots who wrote this weren’t so stupid after all – they exempted themselves from it. They didn’t think to exempt their favorite pass times.

    Regarding the minimum wage and the non-skilled worker – I have had multiple conversations with my Dad about that very subject – at heart he’s a knee jerk bleeding heart liberal, though he votes consistently conservative. He hears that someone opposes the minimum wage and gets all mad about it. Then we argue about the worth of unskilled labor, like the kids that ask you if you want fries with that. We argue about the fact that there are jobs that are meant to be “welcome to the work force now get to work!” jobs. He always comes around in the end, but I ALWAYS end up in the same conversation because he just viscerally responds the same way every dang time.

    I think that’s what happens with most people, they’ve never thought out the policy/employment/wage ramifications of a minimum wage.

    Vivian Louise (643333)

  27. Chrissy, you still there? Did you run away like the last time you posted here and were called on your fatuousness? Come on, Chrissy – let’s see what you got.

    Dmac (21311c)

  28. vanity fair article from a few years ago

    center on budget and policy priorities

    [note: fished from spam filter. --Stashiu]

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  29. Well that is two links. On the preview they were separated by a line feed, and displayed differently. one link is “vanity fair article from a few years ago” and the other link is “center on budget and policy priorities”.

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  30. Where is my two links? I just posted them? wtf?

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  31. vanity fair

    center on budget and policy priorities

    [note: fished from spam filter. --Stashiu]

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  32. Why does it stick all of the links together? I had them separated, once again, this time by multiple line feeds.

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  33. If you have seen enough and had enough these past 15 months, let your voice be heard this November. Don’t let the Dems have two or four more years to further ensnare America. They have that, you won’t recognize this country.

    GeneralMalaise (139767)

  34. Vanity Fair article

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  35. Why do you keep deleting the links? Here is the vanity fair link:
    vanity fair article

    Chris Hooten (e66d8d)

  36. Don’t let these Republicans prevent the congress from doing anything useful for the people. Vote out more of the Republicans in November. Or, alternatively, if you are a republican, DO NOT send your census information in. They are going to do some nasty ACORN-like thing with the info.

    [note: fished from spam filter. --Stashiu]

    Chris Hooten (2d82e7)

  37. Wow! Just like magic Chris!

    daleyrocks (718861)

  38. Why do you keep deleting the links?
    Comment by Chris Hooten — 4/6/2010 @ 4:38 pm

    Nobody is deleting your links. Many of your comments go directly to spam, just like imdw, and must be fished out manually.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  39. “Where is my two links?”

    That’s right up there with “I work here is done.”

    And, I suspect, a bit similar.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  40. To the commenters with silly ideas like “Simple enough. Hire one group for the first 100 days…” and “Better yet, swap employees with another resort at the 100 day mark!”

    I know you were being sarcastic, but…

    Too many dolts will believe just that. My business cannot afford the risk that some civil servant, from investigator to Supreme Court judge will say that doing those things is criminal and break me. Even if it works it adds yet another 2% administrative burden, which I can’t/won’t undertake.

    As for you lefties who prattle and imply that I’m a rat for not already providing insurance, drop dead. I’m tired of taking big risks so you can tell me what to do and what a shit I am. I’m dumping the business, laying off the employees. Since your so damn holy and smart, you pick it up using your life savings and hire them. It’s your humanitarian duty, right? Oh wait, you’ve never saved a dime.

    [note: released from moderation. --Stashiu]

    Fred Z (c1782b)

  41. Nobody is deleting your links. Many of your comments go directly to spam, just like imdw, and must be fished out manually. – Comment by Stashiu3

    Can I suggest you start fishing for different fish???

    MD in Philly (59a3ad)

  42. Who is John Galt?

    AD - RtR/OS! (cf9e75)

  43. Vanity Fair is about as objective as Michael Moore – Graydon Carter has fired writers on his staff over the past year for even hinting that his Messiah may not be all that and a bag of chips. EPIC FAIL. Please try again.

    Dmac (21311c)

  44. “Don’t let these Republicans prevent the congress from doing anything useful for the people.”

    This country can’t afford any more of these “useful things”. Smarten up.

    GeneralMalaise (139767)

  45. http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/12/bush200712

    Lemme see now, Vanity Fair is an entertainment industry rag, isn’t it?

    So what, exactly, would I expect to find of value in a political feature in such a magazine? Something of substance? And from 2007, no less…when the current White House occupant and Congress critters have completely rearranged the deck chairs while driving straight into the icebergs?

    What kind of stupid is it that makes one a Democrat?

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  46. There is a big day of reckoning coming. Ever since 2001, I wondered how the Democrats got anyone to believe they were capable of governing. I’m afraid that George Bush did a lot to keep the reckoning away but it is coming and we are going to have nothing between us and disaster very soon. I hope it does not involve an Israeli-Iran war because that will expose the feckless energy policy of the past 10 years. It’s as if the Luddites were elected to Parliament in 1816. I’m buying a generator.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  47. tax breaks for the wealthiest of us all are to blame for the hole we are in

    With the Bush tax breaks, the government took in more.

    Under Reagan this was commonly referred to as “Voodoo economics” in the media, and I believed them. First, I was too busy in med school and residency to follow the news with any sophistication, and second, off hand it seemed to be obvious that if you reduced the tax rate you would have to take in… less taxes.

    But, that assumes the economic activity that is taxed is a constant, which it is not. The only thing that increasing tax rates on the wealthy does is take more of their money so they buy less things so more people can be unemployed. Hence total economic activity goes down and tax revenue goes down. Increasing taxes on “the rich” does nothing except make some people happy because they think they are correcting an “unfairness”, when in reality they are only hurting the most vulnerable. Joe millionaire doesn’t buy his yacht, and 4 workers at the yacht factory get laid off. What good does that do??

    Well, as it happens, not only is this true in economics but it is also true in medicine. There is a type of medicine called an “ACE Inhibitor” (or “ACEI”) that is usually used to lower high blood pressure. Well, guess what? In people who have advanced heart failure the same medicine can actually raise a low blood pressure to normal. How does it do that? Well, the medicine lowers the resistnce that the heart has to pump against, hence the heart gets some rest. A rested heart can pump harder, and the blood pressure goes up so the person can now stand up and walk and do all of those other nice things.

    It’s all because lowering the resistance increases circulation, just as lower taxes increases the circulation of money through the economy.

    If all of the rich lefties such as the hollywood types want to pay increased taxes instead of buying expensive homes in Malibu (or Chicago), let them lead the way, instead of telling others what to do. Mr. and Mrs. Obama made a bit of money for a few years prior to the presidency. If he thinks a 70% tax on earnings over $250,000 is a good thing, he can donate to the government, no one (other than maybe Michelle) is stopping him.

    MD in Philly (59a3ad)

  48. Crissy Hootenany was all full of piss and vinegar and asspulls today. I love it when the leftists complain about Medicare Part D, since their objection at the time was that it did not go far enough. That, and it is about .00001% of what BarckyCare is going to cost.

    JD (76f87c)

  49. #48 MD in Philly:

    Well, guess what?

    LMAO!

    It’s a good example, just probably not the first one that I would have thought of!

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  50. EW1(SG)-

    Glad you enjoyed it. I new the cardiac physiology for some time before I ever listened to enough discussion on taxes to make the connection and came to understand “voodoo” economics wasn’t so voodoo after all.

    MD in Philly (59a3ad)

  51. new knew

    MD in Philly (59a3ad)

  52. I like that analogy, MD. Thanks.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  53. Obviously, when these jobs are lost it will be the Republicans fault for failing to get the provision removed from Obamacare.

    Brian G. (505c8d)

  54. You’re welcome, DRJ.

    MD in Philly (59a3ad)

  55. Sorry, but 2 wars, the medicare drug benefit, and tax breaks for the wealthiest of us all are to blame for the hole we are in.

    Bullsh*t. In case you haven’t noticed, we’ve been digging this hole since 1957–the last time the government actually lowered the national debt. We’ve been living like rock stars for 60 years, and now it’s time to pay the piper.

    This started LONG before your pathetic little post-Cold War left-wing shibboleths were even contemplated. Raising taxes on “the rich” isn’t going to cover the cost of $100 trillion in unfunded entitlements. Obama could pull out of Afghanistan AND Iraq TOMORROW, and we’d STILL have $6.5 trillion in toxic crap from Fannie and Freddie being held off the public ledger, even though taxpayers will still be responsible for it.

    Last month alone, the government took out $333 billion–nearly 1/3 of the nation’s GDP–in bonded debt. And you’re scolding conservatives about the “medicare drug benefit”? That’s a pittance compared to what’s coming down the pike, and guess what–there is NO WAY to pay for it, short of outright theft by the government, at the point of a gun.

    Face it, Hooten–there is NOTHING you or anyone else can do to slow this train down. You could take every penny from every person in the US, and it STILL won’t cover our public debt obligations. The world got lucky when the Internet came into play in the 1990s, but guess what, there is nothing left in the global market that’s going to bring back fiscal solvency. Even Canada and Europe are in trouble, in case you’ve bothered to read any of the financial blogs lately.

    Do you honestly think this boils down to “free market” economics destroying the world? If so, you’re nothing more than a partisan hack who got brainwashed by his cloistered professorate in college (don’t worry, they’re about to find out what happens when the state runs out of money and has to pay their salary in IOUs). Wake up and smell what you’re shoveling for once.

    Another Chris (35bdd0)

  56. “tax breaks for the wealthy” is Chris’ way of showing his utter ignorance of how our tax rates were actually altered during the Bush administration. The Bush tax rate cuts cut taxes for all tax payers, and over the Bush admin they actually increased the proportion of federal income taxes paid by the top tiers of tax payers by AGI. That’s what the actual tax data from the IRS shows.

    Chris’ fatuous ignorance of those facts is typical. Why is it, Chris, that you have such strong opinions based on complete falsehoods?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  57. MD in Philly,

    Nice. Another one, if you are in orbit behind the space station and you want to catch up, you must slow down.

    Machinist (9780ec)

  58. I’m working on my taxes right now and am really pissed at how much of a chunk the damn IRS requires that I take out of my wallet. And it’s not like I’m a member of upper-income America, certainly one of those limousine liberals (hello, FDR, posthumously) who plays games with tax shelters and other BS.

    I definitely fall into the category of middle income, if even that. And yet what I have to dole out — to the feds, much less state government — is ridiculous. And for what? So a bunch of government employees can sit in their protected fiefdoms, retire early and then enjoy the benefits of their cushy, union-extorted pensions?

    I was speaking to a person about this today and griped about the tax bite that falls on even moderate-income people. He immediately said he hates how the wealthy don’t pay enough in taxes or take advantage of too many breaks BTW, I don’t necessarily disagree with that POV, but I told him that an increase in taxes on the upper strata often doesn’t translate into a lowering of the taxes on working-class schlubs.

    I didn’t mention that I notice some of the people most indignant about the wealthy paying too little in taxes often are the same people who don’t gripe about the moderate-level wage earner paying too much.

    And the politics of the guy I was speaking with? Liberal, of course.

    Mark (411533)

  59. Allcaps, nonsense words, and cuss words, tend to wind up in the filter. I always slap myself when I use a cuss word and wind up filtrated. Oops.

    I think one problem is that this prototype website makes it appear that your comment was posted when it was actually in filter. Some people will take that the wrong way (not me, I’m amazed these folks put up with my crap).

    dustin (b54cdc)

  60. And Chris Hooten, you were asked to provide proof of your accusations in the last thread you appeared in. It was a simple matter of finding a transcript and backing up what you said.

    You repeatedly refused because you aren’t here for a legitimate back and forth. Also, Vanity Fair is simply less credible than even Bradblog’s “Daily Kos is part of the CIA 9/11 Reichstag Junta” commenters that I found when googling your name.

    Fact is, health care is not priority one. Employing more people is priority one. And taxing employers, or mocking their struggle to afford benefits for them, shows you aren’t thinking a few steps into the effects of your demand for high taxes and mandated coverage.

    Because more people will have no job at all, and certainly no health insurance, thanks to Barack Obama’s policies. I realize from experience that you’re not going to bother responding directly, but I want folks to consider just how much venom you have for employers.

    Hmmm, maybe they could provide insurance for their employees? Gosh what an awful thought that would be. BTW you all act like we are in the financial situation we are in because of Obama.

    You mention the “two” wars. As though that’s Bush’s fault. As though not going to war with Afghanistan was a great idea, or avoiding the inevitable conflict with Saddam would somehow save us money. 9/11 was brought upon us by that attitude that we could kick the can down the road, and it cost our economy dearly. Saddam was violating the cease fire, attempting to assassinate our president, and yeah, he probably had WMDs. Not to mention was a constant pest in a world that can’t tolerate that kind of regime’s potential for terrorism.

    I know, I know, you don’t even care about any of that. But these wars are less expensive than any of the three major entitlement programs, by quite a bit. Obama’s on board with Afghanistan and taking credit for Iraq, so you’re just beyond radical.

    dustin (b54cdc)

  61. #57: The taxes of all were decreased, however wealthiest made out the best of all by far, compared to under Clinton.

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  62. #60 I didn’t use any cuss words. I believe I may have used all caps on one word. One word? Seriously? I got in the spam filter for that?

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  63. Yeah, those Nobel laureates can’t be trusted now that Obama has won one. Did you happen to notice that the Vanity Fair article was written by one?

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  64. “wealthiest made out the best of all by far”

    Chris – By percentage of income, the cuts were the biggest at the bottom of the scale, sorry.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  65. He had to go to war in Afghanastan, but he certainly should have put the expenses in the main budget, not made a separate budget. It was just a way of hiding the true costs.

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  66. istan not astan

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  67. “60 I didn’t use any cuss words. I believe I may have used all caps on one word. One word? Seriously? I got in the spam filter for that?”

    Yep. It’s a conspiracy. And we are looking at you through your computer screen right now, you know. But first, the Karl Rove mind control rays will make you go get a Cheez-Doodles snack.

    Eric Blair (5cf38e)

  68. “…istan not astan…”

    Nor do you understan.

    Or so it would appear.

    Eric Blair (5cf38e)

  69. Crissy likes to claim shit that is simply not true. It is what religious Leftists like to do.

    [note: released from moderation. --Stashiu]

    JD (76f87c)

  70. “It was just a way of hiding the true costs.”

    Pure discredited lefty BS. Costs were approved in supplemental appropriations bills. How is that hiding anything? The ultimate costs wound up in deficit for the year, which after his tax cuts took hold, started decreasing.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  71. daley – They just like to make shit up. They are servicing Teh Narrative.

    [note: released from moderation. --Stashiu]

    JD (76f87c)

  72. Chris Hooten,

    Most comments that went to the filter went there because of the links, and it had nothing to do with ALL CAPS. However, you need to refresh your browser after you post a comment to see it in the proper formatting and under your name. It’s a temporary bug while the tech people are sorting out some website issues.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  73. I got in the spam filter for that?
    Comment by Chris Hooten — 4/6/2010 @ 10:14 pm

    There is a spam filter (automatic), and a moderation filter (uses keywords). You get caught up in spam, just like imdw… and for the same reason.

    Most comments that went to the filter went there because of the links, and it had nothing to do with ALL CAPS.
    Comment by DRJ — 4/6/2010 @ 10:35 pm

    DRJ, his are less because of links and more because of the type of server he uses. He will continue to be labeled spam frequently and I will fish out his comments in as timely a manner as I am able. Suggesting that I deleted his links or comments was rather annoying since it was not that long before I fished out the comments. I get to the “partisan-hack” comments just as quickly as the substantive ones… as even imdw should admit.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  74. #60 I didn’t use any cuss words. I believe I may have used all caps on one word. One word? Seriously? I got in the spam filter for that?

    Comment by Chris Hooten

    I was just relating my experience, though I guess I’m wrong about allcaps.

    Are you using a proxy server?

    Anyway, a lot of the facts you are spouting might not be accurate. You say the Bush cuts favored the very rich and decreased revenue.

    That’s why I repeatedly asked you to prove your assertion last time. When we don’t do that, it’s so easy for people to live in totally different universes of truths. You might completely change your political persuasion if you realized that the facts you are spouting are simply backwards.

    Or you’re just spitting out talking points. But take some of your enthusiasm and look into these ‘facts’.

    dustin (b54cdc)

  75. Let me get this straight: I can’t post any links or it goes into the spam filter? Are you crazy? How do you prove anything, just quote everything verbatim? What a Mickey Mouse operation.

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  76. #65 by daleyrocks:

    Chris – By percentage of income, the cuts were the biggest at the bottom of the scale, sorry.
    ____________________________________________________

    Isn’t that ignoring the reduction of capital gains taxes, more important to the super wealthy?

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  77. Man, your blog screws up posts and reformats them. Fix that!

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  78. Chris, like most ProgLibs, doesn’t know shit for shinola about math or economics.
    FYI Chris, old boy, $333Billion is not 1/3rd of GDP, but about 1/30th of GDP (decimal points are hard!) – or less, since current GDP is in excess of FOURTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS (it was $14.2T in ’08).

    AD - RtR/OS! (cf9e75)

  79. Man, your blog screws up posts and reformats them. Fix that!

    If you don’t like the neighborhood, and have nothing positive to add, find someplace else to hang your bile.

    AD - RtR/OS! (cf9e75)

  80. Chris,

    You’re not reading all the comments, are you?

    DRJ (daa62a)

  81. Chris Hooten,

    Posting just links is likely to get you pegged as spam by most automatic filters at any site. This one uses Akismet, which is pretty good usually. Your posts were most likely getting caught up for another reason which I already alluded to. The format issues are very recent and temporary, your comments show up properly to everyone else and will appear proper to you after you refresh the page.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  82. #79: Chris, like most ProgLibs, doesn’t know shit for shinola about math or economics.
    FYI Chris, old boy, $333Billion is not 1/3rd of GDP, but about 1/30th of GDP (decimal points are hard!) – or less, since current GDP is in excess of FOURTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS (it was $14.2T in ‘08).

    What are you talking about? BTW there is really no reason for all of my comments to go into spam. That is ridiculous and makes it difficult to have a conversation.

    [note: released from moderation. The word "shit" you quoted is what put it there. --Stashiu]

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  83. Isn’t that ignoring the reduction of capital gains taxes, more important to the super wealthy?

    Comment by Chris Hooten — 4/6/2010 @ 11:43 pm

    ‘Super Wealthy’ people can relatively profit from very high taxation from lobbying Pelosi et al for special rules for them, or hiring accountants, or using tax havens/shelters. Super rich folks often give tons of money to democrats for this reason.

    However, the investor class is far from super wealthy… it’s extremely broad. I benefited from the cap gains tax reduction, and so did Uncle Sam. I am not super wealthy in the context of US Citizens.

    dustin (b54cdc)

  84. No, CH…

    Shouting in all caps and insulting people make it difficult to have a conversation.

    You clearly are a bit unhinged. That’s fine. We get those people from time to time.

    If you act nutty, people will bat you around. If you are polite, they will engage you politely.

    But you are sure coming across like one of Limbaugh’s “seminar callers.” I particularly like your telling paranoia about moderation.

    Eric Blair (5cf38e)

  85. “…Are you crazy? How do you prove anything, just quote everything verbatim? What a Mickey Mouse operation….”

    Man, your blog screws up posts and reformats them. Fix that!”

    Now, that is one polite, calm, and reasoned poster! I also liked the command that someone “fix” something that is probably fixed by refreshing the page.

    Hey, CH. Can I subscribe to your newsletter?

    Eric Blair (5cf38e)

  86. You know, nobody is making you hang around here. You’re like a tourist in a hotel complaining about renovations that began before you made your reservation and checked-in. The spam filter doesn’t know you from Adam, the keywords for the moderation filter have been in place for a long time and are not going to change just to suit you, and most people have their comments publish without any fanfare or problems. We’re supposed to jump because you come in yelling “Frog”?

    Get over yourself. Please. Or just leave if things are too difficult for you just now. We’ll try to struggle on without you.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  87. Hi Stashiu3:

    I think a lot of these odd types are just acting out about the loss of their Hope and Change.

    Or need to change their medication.

    Either way, I am grateful for this place. I learn a lot reading posts, and even have made a few electronic friends.

    And that is nothing that needs fixing!

    Eric Blair (5cf38e)

  88. I never used the word sh@t! What are you talking about? When did I use that word? I was quoting someone else that didn’t seem to get dumped into the spam filter Mr moderator…

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  89. #83 I was quoting the shouting in caps. I wasn’t doing it myself. I even pointed you to the original. Sigh.

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  90. Chris, your post #83 has that word in it.

    It just does, plain as day.

    You were quoting someone else, but obviously a computer program that is directed to filter those for approval by Stashiu is not going to care that you’re quoting someone else.

    I know you realize this. Your dialogue makes clear you understand this is software applying rules evenly. You’re just trying to hassle everyone here. There’s no way you’re having this much trouble understanding how comment filtering works. I noticed you’re on other blogs remarking on how you’re being censored. That’s extremely dishonest. Extremely liberal and (IMO) trollish behavior is tolerated on this blog. And everything you type eventually makes it to the page. It’s not even taking long for it to appear.

    That’s censorship? I think you’re extremely rude to trash a blog you’re spamming with angry talking points you refuse to back up. I can only imagine how much you’d freak if we treated you the way you’re treating us.

    dustin (b54cdc)

  91. Questions reflecting confusion have flooded insurance companies, doctors’ offices, human resources departments and business groups.

    “They’re saying, ‘Where do we get the free Obama care, and how do I sign up for that?

    Bear in mind these are what’s left of the peeps who support the entitlement. It’s a shame we have people who outright expect society to take care of their personal needs. It’s some kind of fundamental indignity. Stupid hippies.

    dustin (b54cdc)

  92. Of the 92 posts on this thread, 20 were by Chris Hooten, 10 of them nothing but moaning and groaning about technical issues that have either already been explained or the rest of us figured out ourselves.

    35 posts were in response to him.

    He contributes little except watering down significant content and giving occasion to straighten the record on some points for anyone else reading the blog who is actually thinking rationally.

    He is not playing nicely with others, even though he is the one who barged into our virtual living room.

    Stashiu3, thank you for your hard work. You are either developing the “patience of Job” or one whopper of a headache.

    I’m currently a little more than an hour from Lake Erie. If you want to fish, I’ll get a friend to take us out for some walleye fishing (while the walleye, and not Asian carp, are still there). MUCH more enjoyable.

    MD in Philly (59a3ad)

  93. FYI Chris, old boy, $333Billion is not 1/3rd of GDP, but about 1/30th of GDP (decimal points are hard!) – or less, since current GDP is in excess of FOURTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS (it was $14.2T in ‘08).

    I guess you forgot that there are 12 months in a year, you little poof.

    14.2T/12 = 1.18T per month

    333B/1.18T = 28%

    Notice I said nearly 1/3; it’s definitely over 1/4. I think it’s rather amusing that you tried to parse the math rather than address the substance–and given your complaint about Bush hiding the costs of Afghanistan off the official budget, your special pleading in regards to the $6.5 trillion of Fannie and Freddie debt that Obama is hiding off the ledger is hardly surprising.

    I realize you don’t want to admit that the party’s over and we can’t afford to pay for any of these sweets and treats anymore, but the math doesn’t care how compassionate you think you are, as the chart in this post shows:

    http://market-ticker.org/archives/2152-Come-To-Jesus-Part-Deux.html

    I have a feeling that when the system finally does come down, you’re going to be one of the people sitting around wondering, “How the heck did that happen?!” It isn’t hard to see when one actually pays attention to what is going on, but from the look of things, you and your comrades honestly think that this glorified little ponzi economy can be kept going in perpetuity.

    Another Chris (2d8013)

  94. I think we have a bit of a “friendly fire” incident occurring where TRILLIONS are involved.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  95. Chris, after the Bush admin tax rate cuts, the wealthiest pay a larger share of income taxes, both absolutely and relative to their actual share of AGI income, than they did during the Clinton administration.

    This can be found in IRS data anytime you bother to look.

    You really don’t have a clue what you are talking about. But it is typical of Democrats to misrepresent what occurred in those rate changes.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  96. #83 I was quoting the shouting in caps. I wasn’t doing it myself. I even pointed you to the original. Sigh.
    Comment by Chris Hooten — 4/7/2010 @ 2:33 am

    Are you brain-damaged? The part of the comment you quoted had the word “shit”, which is a moderation keyword. Nearly anyone who uses that word, or any moderation keyword for any reason, must have that comment released from moderation.

    The spam filter is different. The point is, you are not being singled out and your claims of victimhood became tiresome long ago. If you don’t like how the site works right now, you can stick around and make polite suggestions for improvements… just know it’s being worked on right now to correct some longstanding issues and you happened to come during the renovation. Making demands and calling things “Mickey Mouse” just because they don’t work the way you like is childish. It definitely won’t produce the results you claim to want.

    Or you can leave. That suggestion has less to do with your opinions and more to do with your near-constant whining and lack of manners. Your opinions are no threat to anyone here, especially if you’re going to quote Vanity Fair. Stay or go, up to you. Nothing specific to you has been tagged for moderation or as spam.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  97. Stashiu3, thank you for your hard work. You are either developing the “patience of Job” or one whopper of a headache.
    Comment by MD in Philly — 4/7/2010 @ 6:16 am

    I haven’t had a headache in years, since they took out the brain tumor in fact… but thank you and you’re welcome. ;)

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  98. Some of us do give him a pain, but it’s farther South.

    Machinist (9780ec)

  99. Mac, I don’t know what you mean. ;)

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  100. Let’s start this over. First of all, how would I know that when you make comments, it mangles them, and you have to refresh the page? On top of that, my posts were quickly disappearing right after I posted them. Not being familiar with posting here, I naturally became disconcerted with both of these events happening, as they both seemed to be working against being able to converse. Now that I know the technical issues of the blog software, and the overactive spam filter, I am much less inclined to cry “foul.” However, you must look at it from my perspective (being a brand new commenter here), and give me the benefit of the doubt. I am not sure why I got stuck in the spam filter for quoting someone who did not also get stuck in the spam filter. I guess they automatically get fished out. As far as that person’s questions for me #79, #94, I don’t know what you are talking about, I didn’t parse any math anywhere. I think you may have me confused with someone else. Everyone have a good day :-)

    Chris Hooten (bc3301)

  101. “…give me the benefit of the doubt…”

    Wow. Like CH has done that with his comments about people who post here.

    But I liked the continuing paranoia.

    Medication time?

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  102. Chris Hooten, evidently you need Stashiu3′s comments translated. Google Translation program supplies the following: “Grow up”.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  103. Whining poofters are tiresome. I will give you the benefit of the doubt – I think you are dummerer than a sack of Andrews, and do not think you to be willfully obtuse.

    JD (a756c8)

  104. Stashiu3,

    Oh yes you do!

    Machinist (9780ec)

  105. #99 Machinist:

    Some of us do give him a pain, but it’s farther South.

    When I grow up, I want to be like Stash.

    Meantime, and as childish as it is, I like poking lefties inna eye with a stick to see what happens.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  106. You didn’t get caught up in spam for quoting someone, it was the moderation filter. They were caught up as well. It’s your very unfamiliarity with posting here that reveals your personality. You immediately assumed it was directed at you and didn’t give anyone “the benefit of the doubt” that you expect for yourself.

    Again, telling me what I “must” do doesn’t make it so. You haven’t earned a “start over” or “benefit of the doubt” with me. Your comments will be treated as fairly as everyone elses here. If your comments go into spam or moderation, I’ll get to them as quickly as I get to them… no faster or slower than for anyone else. If I’m not around, it will have to wait until Patterico or DRJ sees them, just like for anyone else.

    I hope that is clear enough for you because I’ve spent far too much time on it already.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  107. (@101 Chris Hooten — 4/7/2010 @ 11:16 am) First of all, how would I know that when you make comments, it mangles them, and you have to refresh the page?

    Maybe ask — politely. After all, you are a guest in someone else’s blog, using his resources and his volunteers. Your caustic and judgmental comments regarding Patterico’s hospitality are uncalled for.

    Quite frankly, a certain degree of intelligence is necessary to navigate on blogs in general. If you really could not figure out that maybe the “refresh” button might solve the problem, and instead believed insults and caustic behavior would serve as a better solution, no amount of hand-holding is going to help you.

    On top of that, my posts were quickly disappearing right after I posted them. Not being familiar with posting here, I naturally became disconcerted with both of these events happening, as they both seemed to be working against being able to converse.

    No; you naturally became caustic and nasty as that was your first impulse (as opposed to being not smart enough to figure it out or ask a polite question).

    Now that I know the technical issues of the blog software, and the overactive spam filter, I am much less inclined to cry “foul.”

    Doubtful, because after several explanations were given to you, you continued your insults and childish anger (probably a true reflection of your nature) and have yet to apologize.

    However, you must look at it from my perspective (being a brand new commenter here), and give me the benefit of the doubt.

    You were completely comfortable about insulting people (such as those you disagree with) and thinking the worst about others (such as the administrators of this site). You had no problems referring to this site in derogatory terms — even after several explanations were made. You were given the benefit of the doubt several times; you are just too caustic and miserable to recognize it.

    You have no patience, manners, gratitude, or even a sense of honor that would compel a decent person to apologize for the kind of behavior you displayed last night (let me guess…you’re an Obama supporter). These values appear meaningless too you and as such, you are lost.

    Your true nature was revealed; no one here can help you with that.

    Pons Asinorum (5259f3)

  108. Chriss Hooten, you said you knew of footage proving O’Keefe distorted his ACORN expose. I asked you many times to back that up in the obvious transcript way.

    You stubbornly kept increasing you claim while refusing to back it up.

    That’s why you got off on a bad foot with me. I think you’re a liar and a jerk from an insane Brad Freidman blog. You have been aggressively hostile to people who are being nice to you, too.

    You don’t treat others the way you want to be treated, at root, and that’s always the problem, no matter what the problem is.

    dustin (b54cdc)

  109. EW1(SG),

    He’s better looking than me, too. Dang him!

    Machinist (9780ec)

  110. I naturally became disconcerted

    Me,me, me, me, me, me, ME, ME, ME, me, ME!

    Not to be confuzzled with fa so la ti do!

    from my perspective (being a brand new commenter here), and give me the benefit of the doubt.

    Whatever the bloody hell for? You show up, act as stupid as a rock (no offense meant to rocks), whine, moan, piss in somebody’s corn flakes; all the while not in the least giving your hosts the benefit of any doubt.

    JD’s correct, you are dummerer than a sack of Andrews.

    And that is going some.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  111. Stashiu3, as always, thank you for the work you do — I enjoy this house and know you play a big part in what makes it so successful.

    I may not participate as much as some, but I do browse it quite often and always find something new, along with interesting insights and plenty of humor.

    Stashiu, you rock!

    Pons Asinorum (5259f3)

  112. Thanks Pons, I share JD’s opinion that we need you around more.

    It’s Patterico, DRJ, Karl, Jack Dunphy, and the other guest writers who really make things work here. I’m glad I can help a bit.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  113. I rock too, just so we are clear on that.

    JD (d55760)

  114. I don’t, just so we are clear ’bout that.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  115. More Pons/Machininst/EW/SPQR less Hootenany/imdw/assahts. That is all.

    JD (d55760)

  116. Stashiu3- glad to hear you’ve been headache free and cause of headache free

    that said, the walleye are still more enjoyable fishing, and I warned my friend of my offer a few hours ago and he’s prepared.

    MD in Philly (59a3ad)


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