Patterico's Pontifications

3/8/2010

Election Fraud Charged in Wisconsin (Updated)

Filed under: ACORN/O'Keefe — DRJ @ 2:02 pm

[Guest post by DRJ]

Via Hot Air, Wisconsin authorities have charged 5 with election fraud including 2 from ACORN:

“Before the 2008 election, Wisconsin’s Attorney General J. B. Van Hollen and Milwaukee County District Attorney John Chisolm formed a special task force to combat attempts to pervert elections, especially in Milwaukee, where most of the problems occurred in 2004.

Today, Van Hollen announced indictments in five cases — including two felony indictments against ACORN for scheming to have registrants vote multiple times in November 2008.”

***[EDIT: See the Updates below and at the original link.] ***

Details of the allegations are at the link.

— DRJ

UPDATE 3/9/2010: Ed Morrissey added this correction:

“Update IV: Brad from Brad’s Blog takes me to task — rightly — for some very sloppy writing in my second paragraph. The indictments were not filed against ACORN, but against two of their employees. That’s not the same thing, and I’ve corrected the paragraph to make it more specific and accurate. I apologize for the confusion that caused anyone.”

UPDATE 2 — And this:

“Update V: The crimes related to registrations, not actual voting; I’ve amended that paragraph to show that.”

96 Responses to “Election Fraud Charged in Wisconsin (Updated)”

  1. But-but-but I thought voter registration fraud doesn’t mean voter fraud.

    Some chump (050674)

  2. Let the moronic troll convergence commence! Five…four…three…two…

    Dmac (ca1d8c)

  3. Nothing to see here. Move along … Racists.

    JD (8b8f03)

  4. this is unprecedented…. but i doubt it is really “voter fraud voter fraud”.

    however, these indictments are unexpected.

    😀

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  5. Gee, I hope this doesn’t distract the leftists from their efforts to rewrite the ACORN-child prostitution story.

    Steve (0f440e)

  6. Great comment over at Hot Air:

    Paging Eric Boehlert…call your office, Eric Boehlert.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  7. The most important thing that every leftist will want to know…were the AG’s were dressed as pimps; if not, then this doesn’t count.

    The second most important thing…have the AG’s been mocked on the Colbert show; if so, then there was no wrong-doing.

    Pons Asinorum (1f16cc)

  8. @7 oops –delete the second “were”

    Pons Asinorum (1f16cc)

  9. I can already tell you that they will claim this is politically motivated, that it is just an indictment and nobody from ACORN has ever been convicted of vote fraud, and that you are racists.

    JD (8b8f03)

  10. and here i had some hope they would change their response JD….. :-X

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  11. “Wisconsin authorities have charged 5 with election fraud including 2 from ACORN:”

    Dog bites man.

    Dave Surls (8e84ea)

  12. “Combat attempts to pervert elections?” You mean, preventing a matchup of Larry Craig vs. Gerry Studds?

    L.N. Smithee (b048eb)

  13. Folks, I can tell by your snarky comments you haven’t read the details at the link. This is serious, sordid, sick stuff.

    Go now. See if you can keep your jaw from dropping open.

    L.N. Smithee (b048eb)

  14. I wonder if this includes the tire slashing event. That involved the son of a local politician in Milwaukee. He and a couple of other local DNC staff slashed the tires on GOP vans that were part of the get out the vote program.

    MIke K (2cf494)

  15. ACORN obviously does not condone this behavior as a matter of course and was victimized once again by the misconduct of part-time, poorly trained and poorly supervised employees just as it has been countless times around the country. Skeptical prosecutors might even take the view that given the frequency with which incidents occur, it is the standard mode of operation for ACORN rather than yet another incident of the organization being victimized by its employees. How can you hold an organization such as ACORN responsible for so many accumulated isolated incidents where it has been victimized by its poorly trained, poorly trained employees through the incentive system it creates to register voters?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  16. LN – thanks for the links. Given the behavior involved in the complaints, it now makes sense why they appeared to have little to no problem with the underage illegal immigrant prostitutes.

    JD (1910a1)

  17. the last poorly trained should be poorly supervised.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  18. Be interesting what lie timb and imd-dumbass try on the readers here.

    PCD (955d37)

  19. Actually, PCD, it probably won’t be. timb and imdw do not have any fresh talking points supplied to them so they’ll recycle the same long-debunked and tired spin.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  20. This addresses registering specific people multiple times …

    I wonder if there is any way to see if any individual who was registered multiple times *als* cast their ballot *multiple* times, once for each registration ?

    Alasdair (e7cb73)

  21. Lefties are soooooo booorrrring!

    AD - RtR/OS! (a1afa2)

  22. It’s funny how much time you guys have spent talking about what timb and imdw are going to talk about when they finally get here. I think that means they win – not that I give a shit, but this is a perfect example of what Stashiu3 talks about: trolls controlling the dialogue. Within even being involved in it, in this case. Whatever would you do without them?

    ACORN just can’t catch a break, can it? Good. The stuff alleged in this article may not be quite as bad as facilitating an underage prostitution ring – which is abundantly clear from O’Keefes tapes, I’ll add – but it’s still pretty screwed up.

    Leviticus (30ac20)

  23. Another in an ongoing series of isolated incidents.

    JD (bd7f0f)

  24. Yeah, seriously. I don’t know why Democrats are bothering to defend an organization that’s obviously so far gone. It just makes them look bad. Not that I care, again.

    Leviticus (30ac20)

  25. Maybe they can commission another statement from Harshbarger again.

    Paging Boehlert and Friedman !!!

    JD (bd7f0f)

  26. Leviticus, evidently someone feels awfully invested in ACORN.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  27. Who would that be?

    Leviticus (30ac20)

  28. ever notice how the left never approves of how the right deals with trolls, except to urge that yhou do nothing about them?

    i wonder why *that* is their suggested tactic for us to use? 😀

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  29. …deals with their trolls,…

    need beer and red meat…. BIAB!

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  30. Why am I sure THIS won’t make the nightly news, or if it does, at least not for long?

    IgotBupkis (79d71d)

  31. > for scheming to have registrants vote multiple times in November 2008

    Well, call me a legal novice, but that does sound suspiciously like “Voter Fraud”.

    IgotBupkis (79d71d)

  32. > trolls controlling the dialogue.

    Nah. It’s just poking fun at their guaranteed ludicrous responses ahead of time.

    IgotBupkis (79d71d)

  33. > I don’t know why Democrats are bothering to defend an organization that’s obviously so far gone. It just makes them look bad.

    You’re kidding, right?

    These ARE the same sorts of people who were busy defending Polanski you’re talking about…

    IgotBupkis (79d71d)

  34. Who would that be?

    ACORN is headquartered in Chicago, but I know your question’s rhetorical.

    Dmac (ca1d8c)

  35. Actually, I just misunderstood SPQR’s comment. I thought he was implying that I was awfully invested in ACORN, since his comment appeared right after mine. But he was implying that the Democrats are awfully invested in ACORN, which I think is probably right.

    Phew. Glad I didn’t get too defensive and say something snide. Sorry for misunderstanding.

    Leviticus (30ac20)

  36. My apologies for the ambiguity, Leviticus. Indeed, I meant that Democrats, or at least quite an assortment of them, seem awfully invested in ACORN.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  37. “ACORN is headquartered in Chicago, but I know your question’s rhetorical.”

    I thought it was New Orleans. Who says Chicago?(besides you?)

    imdw (490521)

  38. I don’t know why Democrats are bothering to defend an organization that’s obviously so far gone.

    Why don’t you ask imdw why he does it? Perhaps you can get a coherent answer out of him.

    Subotai (69b89a)

  39. “Who says Chicago?(besides you?)”

    imdw – Did they move to be closer to Obama’s home or was it just ACORN Housing?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  40. imdw…coherent…
    Next thing I know, you’ll tell me that DCSCA worked for NASA.

    AD - RtR/OS! (a1afa2)

  41. I’m convinced there are many many ACORN violations in
    many many states. Indict and prosecute, please.

    Krusher (706665)

  42. What proportion of ACORN workers have been convicted of fraud?

    [I was gone this morning Andrew/Newt/Santana Jones/etc, so this one got by. –Stashiu]

    Petro (415127)

  43. Thanks for the predicted response.

    JD (9bbaca)

  44. OJ can say the same thing about murder, Petro!

    People's Front of Judea (44bf37)

  45. JD @ 26 said: “Paging Boehlert and Friedman !!!”

    I’m right here. Thanks.

    Morrissey and Hot Air has corrected the inaccurate text that is quoted above in the original story. He did the right thing.

    Will you?

    Details for ya: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7734

    And again, you’re welcome. I look forward to your transparent correction (or, as Patrick Frey likes to do, you can hide it on a page that does not appear on the main index).

    [Comment released from the filter.

    I’ve corrected the post and I appreciate that you brought this to my attention. Like Ed Morrissey and Patterico, I want my posts to be as clear and correct as possible.

    I’ve never read your blog or your comments before. Are you always this rude or is it just here? — DRJ]

    Brad Friedman (25f727)

  46. So, Brad, just another isolated incident in a long series of isolated incidents that just happen to involve employees of ACORN. I well understand the difference between the employees and the organization. But I understand how you would rather focus on that as opposed to the actions in question. I hope they weren’t dressed like a pimp.

    DRJ – Rude and mendoucheous is its standard operating procedure, its default setting.

    JD (dd585e)

  47. “The indictments were not filed against ACORN, but against two of their employees. That’s not the same thing, and I’ve corrected the paragraph to make it more specific and accurate. I apologize for the confusion that caused anyone.”

    I pointed this out, but to be fair to you, it was in another thread. This is another case of people cheating ACORN. If they’re desperate for work, I feel sorry for them. But ultimately, I can’t feel much sympathy for people who cheat an organization that is trying to achieve an important progressive function like universal voter registration.

    imdw (8f8ead)

  48. That just made Mt Dew spew all over my Blackberry.

    JD (dd585e)

  49. imdw,

    I didn’t see your comment but I’ve haven’t been around much as usual in the past couple of days — hence the fewer number of posts and comments. I appreciate that you tried to raise that, but I want to note my introduction correctly said charges were brought against “2 from ACORN.” It was clear to me the charges weren’t against ACORN but against 2 ACORN members and while it’s good to make that more clear, I think most people understood that from the totality of the Hot Air post and the article it linked.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  50. imdw,

    As for your basic point, when does a system that motivates people to cheat become the problem instead of the victim? Isn’t that what liberals complained about in cases like ENRON, and why is that different?

    DRJ (daa62a)

  51. “This is another case of people cheating ACORN.”

    DRJ and imdw – This is the standard ACORN drivel which spokesweasel Scott Levenson used to go on TV peddling tirelessly and which I mocked in comment 16 above. It is unsurprising that imdw picked up the standard ACORN defense. The question becomes how many times does the same thing have to happen before people decide that it is in fact the organization’s standard operating procedure and not just a series of isolated incidents, e.g. a feature and not a bug. Harshbarger’s report regarding the videos made clear what an out of control and unsupervised organization he thought it was. I think most sentient people have long ago realized these incidents are a deliberate result of the organization’s operating philosophies and not accidents. When that happens, it’s an institutional failure and it is fair to blame the organization and not just the individuals, as Harshbarger did in his report.

    imdw and Friedman’s acolytes can continue arguing unpersuasively otherwise without any credibility.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  52. DRJ – ENRON wasn’t the problem, it was just a few people working there, depending on which issue you are talking about.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  53. “As for your basic point, when does a system that motivates people to cheat become the problem instead of the victim? Isn’t that what liberals complained about in cases like ENRON, and why is that different?”

    Yes there’s this point of view:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKIaS0lh-uo

    Though I’m not seeing much of the connection with ENRON. I don’t see the desperation that ACORN workers have at issue with ENRON. I do see ACORN chapters having segregated suspicious registrations — I don’t see analogous behavior at ENRON. Some states have made it illegal to pay someone to collect registrations. I think the incentives are right for ACORN to be able to set its own policies in ways that ENRON couldn’t — I don’t see the fiduciary and agency problems there.

    imdw (688568)

  54. “Though I’m not seeing much of the connection with ENRON.”

    imdw – Then you’re not thinking. Your argument is that it is the individuals who are at fault, not the organization. Is the same true of ENRON?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  55. Brad “Scarlet Pimpernel” Friedman and Eric “Catfish” Boehlert… what “The Left” has come to.

    Very, very sad. Truly sad.

    GeneralMalaise (01c700)

  56. imdw flees the thread!

    daleyrocks (718861)

  57. I added Update 2 to note Morrissey’s correction in his Update V. Sheesh.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  58. “imdw – Then you’re not thinking. Your argument is that it is the individuals who are at fault, not the organization. Is the same true of ENRON?”

    I don’t think ENRON, the organization, was at fault.

    imdw (688568)

  59. What about management?

    DRJ (daa62a)

  60. See, what we have at ENRON is the bosses cheating the people below them. This case that is charged is one of some of the people at the bottom cheating their bosses.

    imdw (223a39)

  61. Wasn’t a boss involved in the alleged scheme to trade sexual favors?

    DRJ (daa62a)

  62. Also, do you blame the employee or the business model when employees get paid only if they sign up more voters than experience shows can reasonably be signed up?

    DRJ (daa62a)

  63. “Wasn’t a boss involved in the alleged scheme to trade sexual favors?”

    Yeah a supervisor. I count him among the people cheating his bosses. But good point, he was cheating the people below him too, who should have been let go. At least I’m assuming they felt cheated.

    So another difference, and this has to do not just with their relative positions but also of just the size of the enterprise, is one of scale. How much damage did the ENRON scammers do? These guys here cheated ACORN out of some paychecks.

    imdw (6eb217)

  64. So if a principle only affects a few people or a limited dollar amount, it’s not important?

    DRJ (daa62a)

  65. “I don’t think ENRON, the organization, was at fault.”

    imdw – OK. Now if you look at the CRS report which lefties such as Brad Friedman say cleared ACORN of criminality but actually contained no such language, it lists a plethora of state and county investigations into ACORN’s voter registration activities similar to what Wisconsin found and similar to what has been found in the past. That makes it much tougher to argue that it is not a systemic problem with ACORN’s operating model than just a series of random incidents with bad employees. At some point the number of incidents stop becoming random and are statistically significant. I submit ACORN passed that point a long time ago.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  66. “So if a principle only affects a few people or a limited dollar amount, it’s not important?”

    It means there is a difference of scale — besides the difference in kind that I already described. Now, you think scale is important? It’s not like I said these people shouldn’t be convicted or indicted or something. Convictions and indicmtments are very important matters.

    imdw (8222e7)

  67. “It means there is a difference of scale”

    Which means what, that the ACORN employees only scammed a few paychecks, but the ENRON folks did a lot of damage as you implied? What does that mean in the context the analogy? Does it make any difference?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  68. “What does that mean in the context the analogy?”

    I also said it was a difference in kind, so both of them have a meaning ‘in the context of the analogy.’

    “Does it make any difference?”

    Of course scale makes a difference.

    imdw (5f60be)

  69. Welcome to the Argument Room, daley. But then, that is what trolls like this character do. It’s always different for their pet issues. Intellectually dishonesty nonsense. Is that a surprise, given the past posts by this individual?

    Eric Blair (e9dd87)

  70. Of course scale makes a difference.

    why? isn’t wrong, wrong?

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  71. These guys here cheated ACORN out of some paychecks.

    If the allegations are true, they also cheated the government and, thus, the people by perpetuating a fraud on the elections division. At what point does a “little” fraud become a big one? I submit it’s when it’s part of a pattern and not an isolated incident. ACORN has a pattern of paying employees based not on their time but on their volume of voter registrations. It is a voter registration Ponzi scheme, which doesn’t let the employees off the hook but does call into question the business model that encourages the fraud.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  72. “Of course scale makes a difference.”

    imdw – What kind of a difference does it make? How and why? Also, do you agree that ACORN is a systemic offender and the problems lie not just with random rogue employees, but the organization itself? If not, why not?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  73. “why? isn’t wrong, wrong?”

    I got no problem with that.

    imdw (652e77)

  74. “imdw – What kind of a difference does it make?”

    One of size. What kind of difference would it make if you lost 10 bucks vs 100 or 1000? Quite a bit.

    imdw (652e77)

  75. Gluttons for punishment, you are.

    JD (842c05)

  76. DRJ – imdw’s all your’s for now. Have fun.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  77. I keep thinking about razor thin elections. Like some recent ones in various states. So, sure, a little voter fraud is no big deal.

    Provided the fraud supports people with “D”s after their names.

    But that is independent of Troll Boy’s mouth breathing debate club act.

    Eric Blair (e9dd87)

  78. I just found and released imdw’s comments 74 & 75 from the filter. And don’t you know it’s always fun here, daley?

    DRJ (daa62a)

  79. DRJ – Circular logic at its best. It just doesn’t get any better than that!

    daleyrocks (718861)

  80. you would think that being that stupid has to hurt, and yet WD-40 just chugs along like s/he/it knew what it was doing……

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  81. DRJ –

    Thanks for correcting the record in your original article, but you have completely misquoted Morrissey’s correction to the article.

    His correction says:

    “Today, Van Hollen announced indictments in five cases — including two felony indictments against two ACORN employees [see update IV below] for scheming to have people register multiple times in November 2008. ”

    Not what you corrected to above, which is currently:

    “Today, Van Hollen announced indictments in five cases — including two felony indictments against ACORN for scheming to have registrants vote multiple times in November 2008.”

    That is inaccurate, ACORN was not indicted for anything, and that’s why Morrissey transparently corrected his original inaccurate report.

    It’s a day or so late now, but I hope you’ll correct your report accurately and transparently anyway.

    Brad Friedman (25f727)

  82. Brad Friedman,

    The post contains the original text as written by Ed Morrissey. I’m not going to change the words in his or my post after-the-fact — I’m not comfortable operating that way — although I’m glad to add updates showing subsequent corrections and providing bracketed information alerting readers to updates and corrections … and I already did that in response to your earlier comment.

    At this point, I’ve decided to also strike-through the paragraph Morrissey changed and encourage people to follow the link instead.

    DRJ (daa62a)

  83. Does anyone else do a double take at the sidesplitting humor of BF demanding retractions of supposedly inaccurate reporting of legal situations?

    Sort of like the O’Keefe business?

    Ah, but that is different, of course!

    Eric Blair (e9dd87)

  84. Has Brad Friedman transparently corrected his inaccurate references to the CRS report and the Harshbarger report?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  85. DRJ – Brad only does the demanding. When his own asspulls are pointed out, a flurry of lies and obfuscations follow. He does not even have a passing acquaintance with the truth, honesty, or non-mendoucheous behavior.

    JD (e702fe)

  86. “If the allegations are true, they also cheated the government and, thus, the people by perpetuating a fraud on the elections division.”

    Yes I’m assuming the ENRON people also violated laws. So I’m not seeing that as a difference between them.

    “At what point does a “little” fraud become a big one”

    I suppose there’s a continuum here. Depending on who you are, somewhere along the lines of losing 10 to 100 to 1000 dollars you’ve gone from losing a little to a lot of money.

    “ACORN has a pattern of paying employees based not on their time but on their volume of voter registrations.”

    Getting paid for performance is going to be a problem now? That’s going to be a feature in a lot of securities fraud.

    Here’s one question I couldn’t find the quick answer to: have there been more convictions for voter registration problems from ACORN or for fraud problems related to ENRON?

    imdw (11b8ad)

  87. BUNNIES !!!

    JD (e702fe)

  88. “Depending on who you are, somewhere along the lines of losing 10 to 100 to 1000 dollars you’ve gone from losing a little to a lot of money.”

    imdw – You say this makes a difference, but that indictments and convictions are important. Merely noting that one number is bigger than another is not equivalent to saying it makes a difference. Why does it make a difference, how and why? Yes, there have been more convictions of ACORN employees than ENRON employees.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  89. “Yes, there have been more convictions of ACORN employees than ENRON employees.”

    The ACORN activities were more widespread.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  90. Is there anyone who doesn’t believe that imdw is a thoroughly dishonest, morally bankrupt person who doesn’t belong in civil society?

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  91. “imdw – You say this makes a difference, but that indictments and convictions are important.”

    Convictions are certainly important to the people they happen to. I don’t want to be convicted of a crime. On the other hand, defrauding a paycheck is of a different scale than ruining multi-million dollar company.

    imdw (b40b74)

  92. Yes, and defrauding a paycheck is a different matter from voting fraud.

    Remember guys, ACORN is the victim here. It’s been defrauded of a few paychecks.

    Some chump (050674)

  93. imdw – How about running a corrupt racket in multiple states for the purpose of perverting the election proccess?

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  94. The difference between ACORN and Enron is that one scandal attacks the foundations of our democratic society and the other is just about money.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  95. This ACORN is a victim thing is a pretty common smoke-screen thrown up by the likes of dimwit, unfortunately for them, it is quite transparent.

    JD (5e5cad)


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