In Which I Extend the Benefit of the Doubt to Marcy Wheeler, Eric Boehlert, and Brad Friedman
Why are Marcy Wheeler, Eric Boehlert, and Brad Friedman defending people who tried to aid a child prostitution ring?
It’s a serious question. All three have been furiously writing thousands of words today about the following critical issue: when James O’Keefe told ACORN employees that he was a pimp for child prostitutes, was he also dressed as a pimp? And while I am working on a response that directly addresses their screeds regarding this trumped-up “issue,” [UPDATE: here you go!] the far more important issue is this: who fucking cares? The real issue is that James O’Keefe told ACORN employees that he was a pimp for child prostitutes — and ACORN employees, one after another, then helped him out.
And none of these three fine liberals seem to give a shit about that. Instead, they are far more concerned with deflecting the issue by going on ad nauseam about the complete red herring of how he was dressed.
Anyone who still respects this trio of trivializers of child sex-trafficking should really ask themselves:
- WHY do they keep talking about “heavily edited videos” when the full and unedited audio completely supports the accusations make by O’Keefe and Giles?
- WHY do they term as “independent” a whitewash of a “report” funded by a paid ACORN consultant — indeed, a paid ACORN consultant who obviously never listened to the unedited audio?
- WHY do they refer to Giles’s and O’Keefe’s undercover journalism as “apparently illegal” while declaring that the ACORN employees who tried to aid a child prostitution ring committed no crimes??
You already know the answer: these three are HACKS. They don’t care about truth, and they don’t care about the law. They care about advancing their liberal agenda, and they are willing to distort any fact and destroy any reputation they think they need to in order to achieve their goals.
Because I can’t imagine that they’re really pro-child prostitution on principle.
See? I told you I was going to give them the benefit of the doubt!
Geez, Patrick. Did you have to white-wash it so?
AD - RtR/OS! (011035) — 2/11/2010 @ 9:34 pm“Because I can’t imagine that they’re really pro-child prostitution on principle.”
LOL. Well, you never really know these days. Maybe it’s not rape-rape if you pay for room and board via a pimp.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/11/2010 @ 9:37 pmi doubt than any of them possess anything an ethical person would recognize as a “principle”.
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 2/11/2010 @ 9:50 pmOne thing you have to remember, Pat, these people have gotten results by lying and drumbeat lying in order to get editors to address them.
Remember the comment jihad they waged on Washington Post because the WAPO correctly noted Abramoff had indeed given and directed his clients to give substantial money to Democrats too?
Topsecretk9 (ab69ad) — 2/11/2010 @ 9:57 pmPatty said: “they are willing to distort any fact and destroy any reputation they think they need to in order to achieve their goals.”
Wow. Irony much, Patty?
If you were a serious person, with a serious critique, and a legitimate argument, versus someone clearly willing to distort any fact and destroy any reputation you think you need to in order to achieve your goals, I’d actually bother to reply to what little substance you’ve put forward. I don’t really have anything to hide from, and I stand by my reporting. All of it.
Such as it is, however, you have still failed — even after two different posts hurling silly epithets at the three of us by name (from behind your brave pseudonym, I should add) — to display the decency, or integrity, to either update your original item with corrections, retractions and apologies, or even bother to link your readers to the 3 rebuttals which completely eviscerate it and you make you look, um, somewhat like the “oafish”, “pathetic hack” of a “stooge” you continue to call us, in lieu of actually making a case.
Very impressive, sir.
So, since u have time to Twitter me for hours on end, but not add a lousy update to either of your two articles, in hopes that your readers won’t find out how wrong you are/were I guess, I’ll have to do so again for you. You’re welcome.
Marcy Wheeler’s fact-based rebuttal to this blog item:
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2010/02/11/patterico-confirms-nyt-owes-reader-a-correction/
Boehlert’s fact-based rebuttal to this blog item:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201002110029
And my own:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7695
“Liberally” (cuz u say so) Yours,
Brad Friedman (ea4d05) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:06 pmBrad
Just a small sample of Emptywheel’s very serious, very professional descriptions.
Topsecretk9 (ab69ad) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:15 pmAs I said, I am working on a reply to the above three falsehood-packed attempts at distraction.
Like Marcy Wheeler claiming that calling O’Keefe and his companions “TeaBuggers” has nothing to do with the (false) allegation that they were trying to “bug” Landrieu.
What a ridiculous lie that is.
Like Friedman repeating lies from ACORN personnel, such as the claim that the woman in Philadelphia was not told Giles was a prostitute.
Even if your little point about O’Keefe’s dress is true, Friedman, that ONLY CONFIRMS THAT THE ACORN PEOPLE WERE TAKING HIM SERIOUSLY. Which means that they were aiding and abetting what they believed to be a child prostitution ring. Which you don’t give a shit about.
Your priorities are seriously out of whack, dude. But I appreciate the chance to harp on the ACORN employees’ behavior once again. Thanks!
Patterico (c218bd) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:17 pmBrad, I read your rebuttals, and it’s really hard to do since you make a lot of really juvenile attacks, such as Patterico wearing crusty panties, but anyway, it seems you missed the point of this blogpost you are attempting to rebut.
O’Keefe posed as a pimp, whether you admit it or not. That’s proven. It is not debatable.
And the larger point Patterico mentions is that this is a red herring. The issue is that ACORN is extremely immoral in its behavior. that’s also proven.
You are making personal attacks to avoid the argument because you are a partisan hack.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:20 pm“fact-based” … boy, my dictionary is broken since its definition does not match Brad’s.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:24 pmPatterico – You keep forgetting about the ACORN folks kindly aiding and abetting potential tax and mortgage fraud to help Hannah qualify for and get a place to house her under age illegal immigrant sex slaves.
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:27 pmYou people keep relying on this Harshbarger report, and calling it “independent.” It is as independent as the studies funded by tobacco companies that found no link between tobacco and lung cancer.
You have no reply to the points I have made regarding the lies you repeated, Friedman, such as:
1) Philly woman not told Giles a prostitute: lie
2) O’Keefe did not represent himself to be a pimp: lie
You were already criticizing me for not having responded to your childish screed while I was still at fucking work.
So no, my response is never going to be quick enough for you. But guess what? I don’t fucking care.
I don’t dance to your tune. But unlike you, I will directly take on every complaint and answer every question.
That’s far more than you and Boehlert do. When a blow is landed on you, you just pretend it never happened.
So don’t give me your sanctimony. You are a hack. You have richly earned the appellation. Revel in it.
Patterico (c218bd) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:29 pm“Patterico – You keep forgetting about the ACORN folks kindly aiding and abetting potential tax and mortgage fraud to help Hannah qualify for and get a place to house her under age illegal immigrant sex slaves.”
I’m not the one who keeps forgetting that.
In fact, I have asked Shipwreckedcrew to do a post about the possible laws that may have been broken.
The people who have been ignoring that stuff are Friedman, Boehlert, and Wheeler.
Patterico (c218bd) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:30 pmCan you imagine listening to that ACORN sting and thinking “boy, we’ve got to do something about those damn journalists!”?
I guess if you get a paycheck from Soros telling you to attack any and every conservative like a junkyard dog that is one thing, but it’s still a choice.
ACORN is destroying our communities and should be abolished, or at least publicly shamed. I don’t want pimp friendly tax cheaters in our towns. Of course they help hide drug dealer profits too; in other words, they probably help murder our children.
and some people look at this stark reality and decide to defend ACORN by making really nasty nonsense attacks. Thanks a lot.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:40 pmIt seems to me that Occam’s Razor would indicate that Wheeler, Boehlert and Friedman think child prostitution is just ducky.
Fresh Air (cae38a) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:42 pm“I’m not the one who keeps forgetting that.”
I didn’t mean that critically, just want to make sure somebody’s keeping track since there were more potential crimes than just prostitution and the three stooges would certainly ignore them.
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:43 pmDustin–
I think ACORN should be shut down and its employees and leaders jailed. They were a very substantial player in the mortgage meltdown in 2008. They “verified” (i.e. did nothing) people who wanted to buy houses and forwarded the paperwork on to CRA-blackmailed banks with a bow around it. The banks wrote it up, made the loans to the idiots with no money, no downpayment, etc. The banks then bundled the loans up and sold them off to the only entities dumb enough to buy this crap. Any guesses as to their names? (Hint: They rhyme with Phoney and Fraudie.)
ACORN and similar entities were right at the head of the chain. Right after Al and Jesse finished shaking down bankers and regulators, there were the ACORN nuts, pushing subprime loans onto unqualified fools. And Barney Frank thought it was nifty. And so do the three morons upthread, who still do not understand the Law of Unintended Consequences.
Fresh Air (cae38a) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:51 pm(apologies for repeating) IMO, a man has only one real duty in this life; to defend the children in his charge. Everything else is gravy.
Any adult male that defends an organization attempting to help a child-prostitution ring has lost all claim as an honorable man. Indeed, IMO he has lost all claim as a man.
There is not anything more despicable in life. Even in prison, convicted rapists and murderers do not tolerate the child molester (and for the religious or those interested in the great philosophers; this was the one thing even Jesus did not forgive).
Well done Patterico, you have exposed a nest of cockroaches (again), and they don’t like it.
Pons Asinorum (f6829b) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:53 pmPatterico said:
“Like Friedman repeating lies from ACORN personnel, such as the claim that the woman in Philadelphia was not told Giles was a prostitute.”
1) That’s not what you accused me of on Twitter. (http://twitter.com/Patterico/status/8993732502) 2) If you’re actually a Deputy D.A. and that’s your definition of “proof” (along with other “proof” you’ve foolishly offered for various incorrect assertions you’ve made along this path), then God help the people of your district.
“Even if your little point about O’Keefe’s dress is true, Friedman”
Well, of course it is. And, as a Deputy D.A. you likely know that a criminal who misrepresents himself over and over and over again is probably a bit less than credible. Yet you’re putting all your eggs in his basket anyway. Okay. But I digress. “If” my little point is true, I’m sure you’ll issue a retraction and apology for asserting otherwise very soon, right? The way a responsible journalist or media person would?
“that ONLY CONFIRMS THAT THE ACORN PEOPLE WERE TAKING HIM SERIOUSLY. Which means that they were aiding and abetting what they believed to be a child prostitution ring.”
Perhaps. If the heavily-edited tapes (wonder why he won’t release the unedited ones? Hmmm.) are any indication of what went on there. But who knows? As a Deputy D.A., surely you appreciate that point and wouldn’t rely on a someone without credible to prove their case with a heavily-edited video, would you?
“Which you don’t give a shit about.”
Evidence for that is what, exactly? Or u just making stuff up yet again? As you’ve been all night in your latest Twitter tantrum?
“Your priorities are seriously out of whack, dude.”
Really? Your sure about that? You’re ready to hang your crusader hat on your fight against “child prostitution”?
Careful how ya answer that, amigo. You’d hate for things to come back and bite you the way they already have today after your ill-considered, thrice-discredited previous post.
And, btw, I thought you were in favor of exposing the “liberal media” like the New York Times when they get stories flagrantly wrong? And then outrageously stand by them with apparently made up excuses for doing so. So it’s only when they get a story wrong that *doesn’t* help your partisan agenda that you give a damn?
Would you accept reasons for their Senior Editor for Standards standing by an unproven and likely completely inaccurate story (misreported dozens of times) simply because he told you “MSNBC and Nancy Pelosi said so on live TV and we believe her”??
Really? Okay.
Good night, amigo. Good luck with new post! I’m sure it’ll be at least as good as the previous two swings!! 🙂
Brad Friedman (ea4d05) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:56 pmwell, since dumb, dumber and dumberer are all part of the MFM, the argument can be made that they themselves are whores, which would go a long way in explaining why they don’t seem have a problem with prostitution….
call it professional courtesy.
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:56 pmPatty? Well, that convinced me.
Nonetheless, Braddie said:
If you were a serious person, with a serious critique, and a legitimate argument, versus someone clearly willing to distort any fact and destroy any reputation you think you need to in order to achieve your goals, I’d actually bother to reply to what little substance you’ve put forward. I don’t really have anything to hide from, and I stand by my reporting. All of it.
That’s some non-reply there.
Ag80 (f67beb) — 2/11/2010 @ 10:57 pm“TeaBuggers” has nothing to do with the (false) allegation that they were trying to “bug” Landrieu.
In this case you may not be interpreting that oh-so-clever phrase correctly.
Just as some liberals, ironically (but unsurprisingly) enough — and particularly CNN’s homosexual Anderson Cooper — were trying to slyly cast aspersions on the sexual proclivities of those in the Teabag movement, by labeling them “teabaggers,” the word “bugger” in this case may not be a matter of poking fun at someone trying to electronically bug a person’s communication device. It actually may be a matter of ridiculing someone for being a “bugger,” a so-called sodomite, a guy doing it with another guy.
If so, it’s merely another example of liberals being so damn phony and dishonest about their belief that disquiet about homosexuality (“homophobia!!”) is something they’re never guilty of. Similar to Al Gore being such a big mouth about the horrors of global warming while living large in his big mansion in Tennesee, using his gas-guzzling vehicles to drive around town, and taking cushy jets to fly all over the world.
Mark (411533) — 2/11/2010 @ 11:09 pmFresh Air, if the GOP doesn’t have lots of hearings on ACORN’s lengthy and apparently endless criminal behavior, they deserve to lose power in 2012.
Ag80, it’s really neat how Brad projects. Sometimes projection is psychological, but with Alinksy style bloggers, sometimes it’s a deliberate obnoxious goad. Read his linked blog and remember that he’s complaining that Patterico isn’t a “serious person” making a “serious argument”. He’s covering for himself, because he probably is obliterated in arguments all the time for making lame childish perv jokes.
The sophistry is pretty amazing on Marcy’s end. I guess they realize it’s just damn tedious to argue with someone who will slip and slither to ridiculous positions.
At the end of the day, these bastards and ACORN’s direct bastards did what they did because money is their god.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/11/2010 @ 11:14 pmMark:
Of course that’s what he was trying to do with the “tea-bugger” thing. That’s the whole point. He thought it was clever.
Besides, it makes their legs tingle and stuff.
Ag80 (f67beb) — 2/11/2010 @ 11:24 pmDustin – Brad loves to cite the piece from the Congressional Research Service showing they didn’t find any crimes committed by ACORN. In typical Brad fashion, some might call it deliberate lying by omission, he fails to mention the pages and pages of investigations in progress by federal agencies and states into ACORN listed in an attachment by the CRS, the outcome of which are uncertain. It’s probably just a coincidence or a confluence of random rogue employees or some other BS explanation that ACORN usually throws out that resulted in so many investigations. He also fails to mention the allegations of mismanagement and fraud of the former ACORN board members thrown out after Dale Rathke’s embezzlement was finally disclosed to the Board after being covered up for eight years. There’s great reading to be had about this scumbucket organization, which is why the libs fight so hard whenever it’s in the press.
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/11/2010 @ 11:26 pmNo. Wheeler has exclusively used that phrase to refer to O’Keefe and his three companions — and has carefully distinguished between those four (whom she refers to as TeaBuggers) and other Tea Party activists (whom she refers to as Tea Baggers).
I document this in my response to them.
She is lying, pure and simple.
Patterico (c218bd) — 2/11/2010 @ 11:26 pmMark,
I disagree.
Marcy doesn’t like to use the term bugger. Google her name and “bugger” and see comments only about O’Keefe. That she only started using it when also talking about the bugging accusation from the left is more of the same simplistic quips you see on her blog.
She lists a load of definitions of bugger that she simply never uses, and she screws up the “bugger all” expression. (that’s why her post says she updated the bugger expression, btw… She didn’t know how to use the expression when she was chortling that Patterico “doesn’t” know bugger all). She had already quoted the term “bugger all”‘s definition but uses it precisely backwards! For an expert on the term who laughs at people not knowing which meaning she meant, she sure has a hard time using the term right!
She’s a liar. She was obviously referring to the idea that O’Keefe was bugging the office. It’s not a serious issue, but she’s still a liar. And she knows it, and she knows we know it.
Marcy knows the obvious interpretation of her comments, and the term “teabugger” has been used in several places, ONLY to refer to the supposed wiretapping O’Keefe crew. It’s not just that she is lying about what she meant, but that she could pretend to be outraged that we assumed it had its obvious contextual meaning.
Nasty and childish.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/11/2010 @ 11:30 pmPatteric, I’m sorry I keep repeating your more succintly made arguments like that. I should F5 before posting.
Marcy was making a quip. I don’t know why she would bother with this kind of defense… it destroys her credibility.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/11/2010 @ 11:32 pmPlus, you have to remember that ACORN traces right back to Obama’s roots and remember how they tried to scrub websites of all his connections to them during the campaign. ACORN, the SEIU, the Working Families Party are all connected and represent major foot soldiers for the Democrat party. The corruption runs deep and so does the party’s need to protect them.
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/11/2010 @ 11:32 pm“She is lying, pure and simple.”
Well – pure, simply and fairly incompetently. Its among the stupidest lie I’ve seen since Intelliology was making up stuff.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/11/2010 @ 11:34 pm“She is lying, pure and simple.”
She buggered her response.
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/11/2010 @ 11:35 pmPatterico, if you want a further glimpse into the character of Eric Boehlert, please google “Eric Boehlert+Sami Al-Arian”. Boehlert was shill and a cheerleader for Sami-Al Arian, an admitted fund raiser and organizer for Palestinian Islamic Jihad. That this man Boehlert is taken seriously by anyone makes my skin crawl.
MrPaulRevere (920a69) — 2/11/2010 @ 11:39 pmPaul Revere, Good Lord what a piece of work that Eric and his copy and paste pals Marcy and Brad are. Sami Al Arian. What happened to Charlie Wilson Democrats?
If you’re cool with Islamofascist terror buggers, you’re probably cool with buggering kids.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/11/2010 @ 11:44 pm“That this man Boehlert is taken seriously by anyone makes my skin crawl.”
MrPaulRevere – He isn’t taken seriously by anyone serious, but unfortunately, by definition that category excludes the left.
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/11/2010 @ 11:56 pm“If you’re cool with Islamofascist terror buggers, you’re probably cool with buggering kids.” Indeed Dustin, moral bankruptcy seems to be the stock in trade for people like Boehlert. I realize the Sami Al-Arian story is a tad dated, but Boehlert has never been held to account for his disgusting support of Al-Arian, who plead guilty to conspiracy to help Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Like I posted above, its a further glimpse into his character.
MrPaulRevere (920a69) — 2/11/2010 @ 11:59 pmIt is interesting that the Acorn people are not being prosecuted – I think even one had confessed to a murder
EricPWJohnson (fef99c) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:03 amthat’s because she knows bugger all…. maybe we can get her to changer her name to Sweet Fanny Adams? %-)
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:19 amDude. Did you really delete the comment I took the time to leave you here in response to your reply to my first comment?
Seriously? Without an ed note or anything to explain the deletion??
Hopefully I’m just not seeing it on my iPhone or something and it’s actually still there. Will check again in the morning. But if you just deleted it… Dude, very uncool. And unimpressive. (which, I guess means this one will be gone by morning too most likely. Not cool, Patrick.)
Brad Friedman (ea4d05) — 2/12/2010 @ 1:12 amNever mind. Found the comment. Happy to see it wasn’t deleted. My error. (or my iphone’s, not sure yet)
Brad Friedman (ea4d05) — 2/12/2010 @ 1:17 amMr (and I use the term loosely) Friedman, based on your previous writings, I expect IF you posted something that got deleted (and I’m not so sure about that without corroboration), it was likely filled with personal attacks the likes of which are not permitted on this site.
As for Patterico “hiding” behind a pseudonym, every regular here knows exactly who he is. There is no hiding there of any sort. And for you to use that as an attack on his character just goes to show you have no character to begin with.
Face facts, fried man, your brain is so fried that you can only resort to ad hominem, red herring, straw man, appeal to authority, etc, ad nauseum.
To quote a fictional dancer, “go back to your playpen… Baby.”
John Hitchcock (6b2655) — 2/12/2010 @ 1:25 ami can hear him now “the internet is hard”…..
if i didn’t know better, i would swear it was September. %-)
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 2/12/2010 @ 1:28 amDidn’t touch your comment, Brad. And I see it on my iPhone just fine.
I think you wanted it to have disappeared, so that’s what you saw.
Incidentally, check the post again. There is now a link to my response to your trivial bullshit you have used as an attempted distraction from ACORN’s criminal actions.
Patterico (063e97) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:16 amDiebold.
Topsecretk9 (ab69ad) — 2/12/2010 @ 4:06 amAnd the threadwinner is: Topsecretkg!
JSinAZ (edc58e) — 2/12/2010 @ 5:24 am— Diebold. —
cboldt (60ea4a) — 2/12/2010 @ 5:34 amROTFL
Marcy Wheeler, Eric Boehlert, and Brad Friedman as a voracious reader , let me tell you why you are not on my authors list.
You claim to be writing ‘the news’. Yet, much of your work is fiction.
Just so you know. There is a value to news for those who want it…there is no value in propaganda, except for those who write it. Do honesty, honor and facts mean nothing to you?
I’ve seen the O’Keif Acorn videos. You three are telling me not believe what is in front of my face. No offense, but you guys are just sad.
Jack (e383ed) — 2/12/2010 @ 5:39 amACORN is part of the Regime’s Permanent Government (i.e. a “street” extension of the civil service) so it will hard to get rid of. Harder than getting rid of The Outfit in Cook County.
icr (304f90) — 2/12/2010 @ 5:42 amRemember the good old days when adults, recognizing someone was exploiting and hurting children, defended the child? Stopped the predators and worked, as a unit, to protect the defenseless? I miss those days.
J (2946f2) — 2/12/2010 @ 5:59 amLet me be clear – heh – The Three Child Prostitution Defending Amigos ONLY defend child prostitution IF the offenders are of the correct political orientation. They would certainly be totally against any defense whatsoever if ACORN were an organization of the Right.
This is all of a sameness with the media’s blindness when it came to Clinton’s alleged rape/molestation of women in his employ and the accompanying silence of the NOW sorts of women. The Sharia apologists won’t ever address honor killings either, since they originate in the “religion of peace”.
Vivian Louise (643333) — 2/12/2010 @ 6:32 amThe two ACORN employees in questions were fired.
What does Patterico mean that the liberal bloggers are defending their behavior? They didn’t say the firings were unjustified.
And Patterico asks “who cares” how O’keefe was dressed. But Patterico dedicated a long post to the issue of how O’keefe was dressed. So there. Patterico cares.
Santana Jones (ea4f36) — 2/12/2010 @ 6:32 am#48:
Just as I have said “you can’t fix stupid“, I also believe “you can’t teach stupid“.
These three assclowns are attacking the person who uncovered the willingness of ACORN to do things that are beyond the pale.
I mean, any rational person when told “I’m trying to set up a child prostitution ring; help me get a place where I can do this”, would run to the cops once the perps left the premises. There is no indication they were willing to turn the fake pimp and ho over to the cops by “playing along” and setting up a second meeting.
So, as you say “Big deal” they were fired. Once is an anomoly, twice is suspicious, three times is a pattern. The fourth time is damning in that the organization as a whole is shown to be corrupt.
But I guess that escapes you.
Dr. K (adb7ba) — 2/12/2010 @ 6:49 amI’d never heard of these people before, and I’ll be glad to not hear anything else about them in the future, hopefully.
Dmac (799abd) — 2/12/2010 @ 7:01 amDamn, that’s one hell of a smackdown, Pat.
Techie (43d092) — 2/12/2010 @ 7:04 am#37:
Given the level of critical thinking that you have so far failed to display here, I’m quite sure who made the error.
Now, let’s get back to the willingness shown in a number of different offices across the country of ACORN employees to engage in felonious behavior.
Or, perhaps you can explain to me the significance of what anyone was wearing, and its bearing on the corruption and depravity displayed by ACORN?
To repeat my point from the earlier thread, I really don’t care whether a criminal, or someone pretending to be one, is wearing Louis Vuitton footwear or Goodwill castoffs~let’s talk about the daily corruption at ACORN.
EW1(SG) (edc268) — 2/12/2010 @ 7:11 amThese 3 and others like imd-dumbass and timb are proving my postulation that Liberalism is a Cult!
PCD (1d8b6d) — 2/12/2010 @ 7:15 amMany of us find ACORN to be a pox on American society and values. We believe on principle that not a penny of taxpayer dollars should fund it. However, I can also accept the possibility that some people, somewhere, at some time were genuinely assisted by a local ACORN office in a legal manner. I can understand that ACORN may have some legitimate defenders. I try to be open minded that way.
Still, ACORN leadership and management for years have somewhat regularly been found to misuse funds and overlook corruption in its ranks. Therefore, it is the blind, uncritical, unquestioning devotion to ACORN after this O’Keefe expose that is so troubling to me and others. Why do ostensibly rational people refuse to see what is in front of their very eyes? Why do they shrug their shoulders? Why do people who seem to value ACORN and want ACORN to exist and succeed so willfully and dishonestly overlook obvious patterns and weaknesses that ACORN must fix? Why do they so visciously malign the whistleblowers instead of being quietly grateful for the information and publicly call for ACORN to improve itself?
Brad, Marcy and Eric seem to be like parents who love their own kids so much that they are blinded to reality even when the kid breaks laws and rules. This type of parent is willing to overlook all sorts bad behavior–because they’re “basically good kids” who “hang around with some bad apples”. Yet by defending their troubled and misunderstood kids so vociferously they never fix the problem, never establish standards or reset the kids on the right path. By excusing the bad behavior they encourage it. Brad, if you’re still reading this post this is something you might want to ponder.
OTOH, if the overly understanding parent analogy is not appropriate, and you really LIKE that ACORN is corrupt and dirty, then that is a horse of an entirely different hue.
elissa (c7cd60) — 2/12/2010 @ 7:21 amelissa,
They are members of the Cult of Liberal Partisanship. This is a religious matter that their psyches justify any retaliation they can muster.
PCD (1d8b6d) — 2/12/2010 @ 7:33 amI have to admit that Brad has a sense of humor. Take for instance this from his website……
I’m still waiting on him to reveal the scandal from last July…
There are hit jobs, then there are hit jobs. Brad doesn’t see irony, for what it’s worth.
Sue (2442a4) — 2/12/2010 @ 7:41 amGood catch, Sue. Apparently Brad cares about the truth about as much as truthout. Still waiting on that Rove perp-walk.
JD (9f8068) — 2/12/2010 @ 7:49 amNice one, Sue. That’s friggin’ hilarious.
spongeworthy (c2e8fe) — 2/12/2010 @ 7:57 am“These 3 and others like imd-dumbass and timb are proving my postulation that Liberalism is a Cult!”
The Cult of Magical Thinking™
GeneralMalaise (4d34a1) — 2/12/2010 @ 8:02 amWhere did timb go, anyway? He seemed to disappear after I issued my last challenge to him.
Patterico (c218bd) — 2/12/2010 @ 8:09 amI’m still trying to figure out why anyone cares what Brad Friedman has to say, who Eric Boehlert is and why Marcy Wheeler is taken seriously. As Patterico said above, they don’t care about the truth and arguing with them is like arguing with a fence post. Just pick a fence post, any fence post, and you will have as meaningful a conversation with it as you would with any of the three, assuming Boehlert is as clueless as the two I have knowledge of.
Sue (2442a4) — 2/12/2010 @ 8:15 amThey do care about the truth – the truth they make up for their readers.
Amphipolis (b120ce) — 2/12/2010 @ 8:25 amWhen I grow up, I hope I have three far left bloggers lying about me. Hey, Brad, why exactly do you not have a problem with ACORN facilitating child prostitution. That’s what I don’t get. Does it cut into your dating pool or something?
Gregory of Yardale (a84c5d) — 2/12/2010 @ 8:26 amHaving just stumbled across this site, I must say that it’s very entertaining.
I’ll add it to my daily readings.
Thanks for the laughs!
Ira (2b3b9e) — 2/12/2010 @ 8:31 amKeep up the good work, Patterico.
Lincolntf (7e09b9) — 2/12/2010 @ 8:33 amJust as the American body politic is beginning to recognize the deception and venality of Leftist politicians (largely thanks to the new media), it’s important to find the hate-fueled smear artists in that new media and root them out.
These chumps don’t stand a chance if they’re forced into the sunlight.
“These chumps don’t stand a chance if they’re forced into the sunlight.”
They will certainly test the old “sunlight is a great disinfectant” adage.
GeneralMalaise (4d34a1) — 2/12/2010 @ 8:39 amTry thinking like a penis and you’ll get close to what Progressives believe about this:
“I, Mr. Penis, have a right to go anywhere I want. Your efforts to restrict my freedom of movement are bigotted, prejudiced, a violation of my civil rights, and, in this case, racist. ACORN fights for my rights with taxpayer dollars, so it is un-Constitutional to take away their government grants. O’Keefe’s felonious fraud against me, and against the true purveyors of fine ‘poon, must be punished as a hate crime to the maximum allowed by law. I’m really pumped up about this! I demand relief!”
twolaneflash (931ca0) — 2/12/2010 @ 9:02 amRe #34 EricPWJohnson: One ACORN worker did say she had killed her husband, but it later turned out that her ex-husbands were still alive.
Hot Air item
Joshua (9ede0e) — 2/12/2010 @ 9:21 amPatterico, timb is always doing drive-by’s. He has no staying power at all and runs fast each time his fabrications are pointed out.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/12/2010 @ 9:28 amThe one who raised the issue of child prostitution is O’Keefe. It is not like anyone other than O’Keefe ever went into an ACORN office seeking help with a child prostitution ring. If O’Keefe can find a real child prostitution ring that ACORN ever assisted, then this might be more than a juvenile stunt.
Skeptic (cadea1) — 2/12/2010 @ 9:43 amAnd their response when he raised this topic, “skeptic” ? How many people told him immediately how repugnant of an idea that was? How many people immediately called the cops? How many people immediately asked them to leave?
JD (24fe7d) — 2/12/2010 @ 9:47 amSkeptic also believes that there are no child molestors other than the one’s made to do so by Dateline’s “To Catch a Predator” show.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/12/2010 @ 9:51 amIf O’Keefe has used “To Catch a Predator’s” methods — go on to the internet and set a trap for people who are trolling for children — then he might have something. When you do that, you don’t know who you are going to catch — it could be a conservative — which is why O’Keefe had to invent the criminal situation that did not otherwise exist.
Skeptic (cadea1) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:07 am“Re #34 EricPWJohnson: One ACORN worker did say she had killed her husband, but it later turned out that her ex-husbands were still alive.”
Yeah it was nice to see how O’keefe and Co reacted when they had been punked. On their own sting.
imdw (842182) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:07 amElissa—
Leftists must constantly engage in fantastical notions, or what Roger Simon calls “reifying” fantasies: They think something ought to be true, therefore it is true. This is the dangerous (lack of) thinking that has our nation’s liabilities at 5X our GDP, has led to the demonization of useful chemicals like DDT, useful technologies like nuclear power, useful policies like preemptive military strikes, worthwhile traditions like marriage, etc., etc. Facts, logic and reason are simply ignored or aligned in nonsensical ways to allow the lefty/progressive’s reified beliefs to persist without causing complete mental stenosis and total incapacitation.
What you’re dealing with is a mental illness. I contend that most leftists have something in their makeup that makes them susceptible to rubbish. In my experience, that something is an excessive deference to “authority” figures, oftentimes teachers and college professors.
Fresh Air (cae38a) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:08 amI wonder who skeptic is a sock puppet of.
PCD (1d8b6d) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:08 amThey weren’t “punked”. She was seeking credibility and had no clue they weren’t what they seemed to be.
Stashiu3 (44da70) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:10 am74, iam-dcultist, it is amazing how often you get punked and come back just as stupidly and wrong as before.
PCD (1d8b6d) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:10 amI remember that vid being released. O’keefe certainly had no clue he was getting played.
imdw (54050a) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:13 amSkeptic – Certainly you can show us where all of the ACORN employees involved kicked them out immediately, did not offer to help, or immediately called the cops.
JD (bdd997) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:17 am79, iam-dcultist, you are the one playing yourself. Don’t you realize that turds (like you) get flushed down the toilet?
PCD (1d8b6d) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:17 amGoogling, it looks like she succeeded in duping not just O’keefe, but most of the conserva-sphere. Nobody bothered to call her uh?
imdw (54050a) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:19 am“Yeah it was nice to see how O’keefe and Co reacted when they had been punked. On their own sting.
Comment by imdw”
she was helping pimps hustle kids, and if you watch the video and listen to the audio that’s incontrovertible.
She exaggerated her criminal record in order to build credibility with people she thought were criminals.
And she threatened to kill more people. But I’m sure the ‘she was joking’ excuse works with people who don’t watch all the material, because it’s so hard to understand why someone would want to destroy our communities as much as ACORN does.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:20 amI should know better. “Here fishy, fishy, fishy!”
One decent response does not constitute a trend. Even if it baited an unintended victim and got them banned, for which I give you full credit. Back to largely ignoring you.
Stashiu3 (44da70) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:21 amShe was obviously not joking. That she lied is no surprised. ACORN lied lied lied lied all throughout this thing. They lied to the IRS, the press, and apparently criminals lie to eachother.
the ‘punked’ myth is just incompatible with her behavior. She lives in a city with a lot of prostitution and quite a bit underage prostitution. O’Keefe was convincing enough that the only rational reaction to him was to call the police. Joking that you’ll help him and you’ll kill people who get in your way, while exaggerating your record to appear like an experienced killer is not ‘punking’, it’s loser style bragging.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:24 amAlthough, she did say she decided to punk them becuase they were in ridiculous get-ups, which might help patterico’s argument over whether o’keefe was dressed like a pimp or not.
imdw (00bfab) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:28 amPatterico’s argument? How?
She was lying. No ridiculous get-ups.
Oh, I see, you realize your argument is absurd and know it will get a lot of attention.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:39 amJD # 80 — Surely you can show where O’Keefe tried the same stunt on low level employees of companies or entities favored by Republicans, to see if they reacted differently.
Oh, wait, he only tried it on ACORN?
Skeptic (cadea1) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:39 am“I expect IF you posted something that got deleted (and I’m not so sure about that without corroboration), it was likely filled with personal attacks the likes of which are not permitted on this site.”
– John Hitchcock
Not by liberals, anyway*. Or are you going to claim that I couldn’t go through the posts from the past few days and find a plethora of personal attacks?
See #3, 14, 63, 81 for a sampling, plus pretty much anything PCD, writes, ever.
*(To be fair, a few liberals, like Intelliology, level personal attacks like nobody’s business. But they are quickly chastised for it. Can’t say the same for their conservative counterparts).
Leviticus (f0f166) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:47 amGuys, these trolls are so stupid that it hurts my brain to read these comments.
O’Keefe tried the same stunt on low level employees of companies or entities favored by Republicans
Now, that is funny even if it hurts but I can only take so much. How old are these kids ?
Mike K (2cf494) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:51 amAnd, in Landrieu’s public office, he needed to wear a helmet as part of his costume, in order to bring a second camera in! Yes, it’s on tapes. Government took them. And, won’t show them to you.
How is that working out for all of us?
Carol Herman (fcab39) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:52 amLevi, why don’t you play over at Washington Monthly where they ban and delete comments from anyone who disagrees? Sort of their own “fairness doctrine.” Iran does the same thing. China, too. Maybe that’s why Tom Freidman likes China so much.
Mike K (2cf494) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:53 amSkeptic, sarcasm is not an argument.
You seem to think you’re rebutting #80. JD pointed out that ACORN usually (7/8) gave tax assistance and other help to child prostitution instead of refusing to help them.
your rebuttal is that ACORN is democrat and O’Keefe didn’t also bust GOP companies that do this kind of thing?
A), you go out and prove such GOP efforts exist before you assert they do.
B), Your argument is a non-sequitur. It’s irrelevant to whether ACORN should be stopped from destroying our communities by helping drug dealers and gang bangers hide their profits.
—
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that the left would attempt false equivalence, even when there isn’t actually an equivalent. There’s never been a multi-billion dollar subsidized organization in this country that acts like ACORN. Republicans would have called the cops.
But go ahead and prove me wrong. Go undercover and try to find some right leaning organization that would help pimps cheat on taxes. If you did, you would not see us defending it.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:56 amThe bigger point to my post, John, is that personal attacks are indeed permitted on this site, provided that there is a legitimate justification for leveling them (the guidelines for “legitimate justification” remain fuzzy, to my mind).
A great many conservative commenters on this blog refrain from leveling such attacks as a matter of principle (which is admirable), but there’s no rule against making them, and some do.
Leviticus (f0f166) — 2/12/2010 @ 10:56 amLeviticus,
AFAIK, nothing was deleted from Brad or Dolly. As far as ad-hom, that’s a fair point and the reason I try not to jump in unless it’s directly at me. I would venture that most is troll-bashing, but some is gratuitous and it would be foolish to deny it. I won’t go into the “they do it much worse at liberal sites” defense because I don’t buy into that so much. They don’t control my behavior, I do. And I should be responsible for it.
I know people are usually pretty quick to jump on anyone using ad-hom towards you though. Maybe that’s why Intelliology claimed you were a sockpuppet of Patterico*. 😉
*Disclaimer: He isn’t.
Stashiu3 (44da70) — 2/12/2010 @ 11:08 amStashiu3,
I didn’t mean to insinuate that anything was deleted from Brad or Dolly, and hope that I didn’t do so inadvertently; I know Patterico wouldn’t do anything like that, and if Brad was more familiar with Patterico and his principles he’d know that too.
Like I said, the vast majority of commenters at this site exercise admirable restraint when it comes to ad hominem stuff; and it makes for edifying discourse. But we have problems with it here just like blogs have trouble with it everywhere. That was my bigger point; I probably should have used a less accusatory delivery, insofar as I have indeed seen conservatives criticized for the use of ad hominem attacks on this site – that is, I shouldn’t have neglected to mention that. Sorry.
And I guess most of it, when it does happen, is “troll-bashing”; but I think we’re drifting toward an over-broad definition of “troll”, and that worries me. If “troll” becomes equated with “dissenter”, then discourse will suffer in a big way.
Leviticus (2949df) — 2/12/2010 @ 11:35 am89, Leviticus, I go after Liberal Cultists where it hurts them most, their pompous, over blown ego. Facts and logic mean nothing to them, and never has. Truth is a concept to them that must be bent to their Liberal screeds.
You tell me Levi, just how ethical are the people on your side of the fence??? How many lies do they get to tell before you even notice they aren’t telling the truth?
PCD (1d8b6d) — 2/12/2010 @ 11:40 amPCD, lets stick to discussing Leviticus’ behavior with Leviticus. Leviticus has almost always commented here in good faith. If he wants to chastise us for not being objective in our responses to trolls, in his view, then we can think on it and accept it or not.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/12/2010 @ 11:44 amAnd I guess most of it, when it does happen, is “troll-bashing”; but I think we’re drifting toward an over-broad definition of “troll”
Can you give examples?
Subotai (1d2abf) — 2/12/2010 @ 11:45 amLeviticus,
I didn’t take it as insinuation, so no worries. Just wanted to clarify that particular point. I agree with the rest of your point and didn’t see it as an omission. I try to make a point of complimenting honest dissent to help point out that it is not trollish behavior and should be encouraged. We’ve been getting a lot of drive-by trolls recently though, and honest dissent is sometimes muffled or mistaken as more than it really is. I’ve found that it usually works itself out though. “Real boats rock” and all that. 🙂
Subotai, I can give several that in my opinion would fit the description. As Leviticus said, it’s part of commenting on the internet and will happen everywhere. His concern seems to be that the definition is becoming too loose and I think he has a point. Troll-bashing can be entertaining, but not every dissenting comment (even the sloppy-thinking ones) is in bad faith or trollish. I’ll stop here with the thought that sometimes it’s better to hold fire than assume everyone is an enemy. No offense or criticism of you intended by any means. Just my own thoughts about the topic in general.
Stashiu3 (44da70) — 2/12/2010 @ 11:59 amSubotai, I can give several that in my opinion would fit the description.
Well, can you give examples?
Subotai (1d2abf) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:01 pmIf that’s supposed to make sense, take another shot.
L.N. Smithee (ecc5a5) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:06 pmYes. 😉
Seriously though, these things work themselves out more often than not. They weren’t brought up at the time with that in mind, so pointing out specific comments will just make people defensive because it will seem they’re being singled-out or attacked. Are you saying you don’t think they exist and that every ad-hom made by a conservative here is justified? How about I point out a couple that I made myself and later apologized for? Towards Leviticus and aphrael for example. Almost everyone does it at some point and it’s not that big a deal unless it becomes the primary characteristic of the site. That’s what Leviticus doesn’t want to see and I agree with him on this. I hope that answers you satisfactorily.
Stashiu3 (44da70) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:20 pmyou rethuglicans are all a bunch of assclown doodyheads!
so there!
/taking the discussion back to where its supposed to be.
i'mwd-40 (fb8750) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:26 pmits fryday of a three day weekend, and they evidently started early on the shots…. which could be the problem. %-)
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:28 pmWhy is it important to O’Keefe that the public believe he walked into ACORN offices wearing a pimp outfit when he did not?
And if he did not “pose” wearing a pimp outfit in ACORN offices, why did he put the outfit on to shoot more video later and use it to edit the original videos so it looked like he wore it into ACORN offices? Why did he wear it during his press junket on Fox?
Since when is releasing “full audio” the same as releasing full, uncut video? What is O’Keefe hiding on the uncut video?
Why does Patterico pretend O’Keefe was investigating ACORN in the interest of exposing ACORN’s complicity with child prostitution when they were not? They were trolling for any conduct that could be used against ACORN politically.
Not one bit of video shows ACORN people advising O’Keefe how to safely run a child prostitution ring – that was O’Keefe’s alleged expertise, one of his own making fabricated out of thin air.
O’Keefe’s credibility is already damaged. Until he releases uncut video of his ACORN covert hijinks, and has a reasonable and truthful explanation of the objective of his criminal covert operation in Sen. Landrieu’s office, the public will continue to believe O’Keefe can’t be trusted to be taken at his word. Beyond that, the courts will take care of O’Keefe and yet one wonder, why does O’Keefe have a Washington DC lawyer from the Watergate era?
Neil Sagan (a25f81) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:36 pmNot one bit of video shows ACORN people advising O’Keefe how to safely run a child prostitution ring
You obviously have not watched the videos.
Patterico (c218bd) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:41 pmNow that is a drive-by troll.
JD (84bdb9) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:42 pmneil,
“Why are you still beating your wife?”
Because you aren’t. You can listen to the unedited audio. Even if you can psychically tell what O’Keefe meant to do, what he actually did do was prove ACORN is a massive criminal enterprise.
If you have listened to the material on ACORN and still think the right approach is to question O’Keefe’s motives, you’re not a very wonderful person.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:42 pmAre you saying you don’t think they exist and that every ad-hom made by a conservative here is justified?
I don’t know about “every ad-hom” . But Levictius was objecting to an “over-broad definition of “troll””. That’s a fairly specific charge and I wondered what it’s about.
I suppose there is no rigid standard for determining what a troll is, other than “I know it when I see it”. It’s a style of argument rather than a set of positions. It’s a style of argument which the liberal mind seems to be very prone to, judging by the comments you see around the net.
The great majority of the time I see a commenter consensus that X is a troll, it’s because X is quite flagrantly and exuberantly a troll. Personally, I’d like to see the good liberal commenters here take a more active role in calling out the liberal trolls.
Subotai (1d2abf) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:44 pmwell, Neil already has them convicted…. hope he’s not in the jury pool. %-)
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:45 pmAll of the released was cut.
The released video represents a very small percentage of the total video shot.
The total video shot demonstrates that few ACORN offices, rather than most ACORN offices, gave advice to abet O’Keefe’s alleged criminal enterprise.
O’Keefe walked into the office and said I wan’t your tax advice on my criminal enterprise. Most ACORN office deferred, a few offered advice.
If O’Keefe wants to let the video speak for itself. He can.
Neil Sagan (a25f81) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:48 pmO’Keefe walked into the office and said I wan’t your tax advice on my criminal enterprise. Most ACORN office deferred, a few offered advice.
What’s the evidence for the assertion that most ACORN offices “deferred”?
I assume you mean “declined”.
Subotai (1d2abf) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:51 pmSo already Neil Sagan is changing his tune? Or just confused about his talking points? The videos show Neil Sagan’s claims to simply be false.
And what kind of ad hominem attack is attacking someone for the attorney they hired to defend them?
We really do need a better quality of troll. Probably all my fault. 😉
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:53 pmSee? He’s not saying it much differently than you are. And I agree with you both.
Stashiu3 (44da70) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:56 pmTroll Behavior: Exhibit A.
The troll makes unsupported allegations and never attempts to substantiate them. The troll demands that the troll’s adversaries prove that the allegations are false.
Subotai (1d2abf) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:56 pmhey Neil! does this mean you are going to start advocating that the MFM start broadcasting unedited news clips, rather than the artfully, position supporting ones they use now?
you know, like the ones that would show unattended rallies, or massive demonstrations that are really only a handful of people, or better yet, demonstrations that really are huge, like the Tea Parties, but are portrayed as minor or fringe….
that knife cuts both ways, so you might wanna rethink before you start cutting.
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:56 pmtroll tactic B: change the subject of the convo, hijacking the thread….
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:58 pm7/8 is a few?
JD (70462c) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:58 pm“…Marcy Wheeler, Eric Boehlert, and Brad Friedman defending people who tried to aid a child prostitution ring?”
Looks that way from my point of view
SteveG (909b57) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:59 pmconsidering how many Acorn offices there are overall? yes.
considering what percentage cooperated out of the total they visited, nope.
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:59 pmHe’s not saying it much differently than you are. And I agree with you both
He’s saying that the definition is overly broad. I’m saying it’s not. But maybe we should let him speak for himself.
Subotai (1d2abf) — 2/12/2010 @ 12:59 pm“89, Leviticus, I go after Liberal Cultists where it hurts them most, their pompous, over blown ego. Facts and logic mean nothing to them, and never has. Truth is a concept to them that must be bent to their Liberal screeds.”
Indeed levi. Watch out. PCD got “facts and logic.”
“O’Keefe walked into the office and said I wan’t your tax advice on my criminal enterprise. Most ACORN office deferred, a few offered advice. ”
Was it correct advice? ie, do criminal enterprises have to file taxes?
imdw (de7003) — 2/12/2010 @ 1:03 pmLeviticus #94,
Well said, Sir.
Machinist (9780ec) — 2/12/2010 @ 1:14 pmimdw-style response: “Let’s ask Al Capone.”
Stashiu3 (44da70) — 2/12/2010 @ 1:19 pmI’m sure he said “drifting toward” up-thread, not “is”. Feel free to continue this with him though if that’s more to your liking. Didn’t realize it was a private conversation. Enjoy your weekend.
Stashiu3 (44da70) — 2/12/2010 @ 1:24 pm[…] his first attempt, rather than admit his errors, he's essentially chose to suggest that Wheeler, Boehlert and I […]
The BRAD BLOG : Rightwing Blogger 'Patterico' Whiffs, Hugely, In Attacking Our NYTimes O'Keefe Pimp Reporting (d011b8) — 2/12/2010 @ 1:27 pm“The total video shot demonstrates that few ACORN offices, rather than most ACORN offices, gave advice to abet O’Keefe’s alleged criminal enterprise”
That is just false and you have no basis for saying it. Ta-ta to your credibility.
Patterico (063e97) — 2/12/2010 @ 1:32 pm“Was it correct advice? ie, do criminal enterprises have to file taxes?”
No. As it happens, they get a special exemption. I believe it was first successfully invoked by Al Capone.
Patterico (063e97) — 2/12/2010 @ 1:35 pmWant me to add the “I am just kidding” link to that comment, P?
DRJ (6a8003) — 2/12/2010 @ 1:37 pmROFL
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/12/2010 @ 1:41 pmI actually recently had the proprietor of a “medical marijuana” dispensary locally tell me that since marijuana was illegal under Federal law he did not have to declare income from the dispensary on his taxes.
I wished him good luck with that.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/12/2010 @ 1:44 pmSo should someone refrain from giving a criminal enterprise the advice that it should follow the law?
imdw (8c854e) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:05 pmWow, ACORN didn’t tell them to break the tax laws?
I need to get my hearing checked. I thought ACORN was trying to help criminals CHEAT on their taxes, but imdw implies vaguely and passively that this is about telling criminals to obey the law.
Like some kind of amnesty program.
“should someone refrain from giving a criminal enterprise the advice that it should follow the law?” No. ACORN should have done the opposite of what it did and told O’Keefe to follow the law. It mostly just tried to help them break it a lot, instead.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:12 pmVintage mendacity from imdw. Vintage.
JD (d05534) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:14 pm“Was it correct advice? ie, do criminal enterprises have to file taxes?”
Comment by imdw — 2/12/2010 @ 1:03 pm
Enough of this bullshit! Did ACORN provide advice in support of a criminal conspiracy or not?
Yes, they did. And they did this several times at different ACORN offices around the USA.
[note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]
GeneralMalaise (4d34a1) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:26 pmThis act where imdw pretends not to know what the discussion is about got old a long time ago.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:27 pmI love this style of trolling. Distracting us from a stupid topic and ‘tricking’ folks into looking directly at ACORN’s criminality.
If brains were a soap dispenser, I’d pump imdw in the bathroom. Secret genius.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:27 pm“I need to get my hearing checked. I thought ACORN was trying to help criminals CHEAT on their taxes, but imdw implies vaguely and passively that this is about telling criminals to obey the law.”
And here I thought they told them to declare their income and pay taxes on it.
imdw (017d51) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:28 pm“So should someone refrain from giving a criminal enterprise the advice that it should follow the law?”
An organization that aids and abets a proposed criminal conspiracy should not be funded with tax dollars. There IS no defense.
GeneralMalaise (4d34a1) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:29 pm“An organization that aids and abets a proposed criminal conspiracy should not be funded with tax dollars. There IS no defense.”
I was all excited that congress passed that law which might defund a lot of contractors. But I don’t think it got anywhere.
[note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]
imdw (735938) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:32 pmFeel free to continue this with him though if that’s more to your liking. Didn’t realize it was a private conversation.
I just meant that we could ask him what he meant instead of speculating about it. I wasn’t telling you to butt out or anything like that.
Subotai (ef1da2) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:38 pm“And here I thought they told them to declare their income and pay taxes on it.
Comment by imdw”
Did you really?
that’s not what they were advised to do. They were told to conceal their income to avoid paying taxes on it. And I’m pretty sure you know that and, like stash says, are fishing. Anyone who heard the audio could not forget the advice to bury profits in a tin can in the yard to avoid taxation. Profits from RAPING IMPORTED KIDS.
but by all means, keep the focus on something substantial rather than 3 illiterates freaking out about a pimp costume.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:40 pmWheeler blogs for Hamsher, who used to date Andy Stern. SEIU has supported DailyKos and FDL via sponsorships and advertising- and that’s the stuff we know about.
MayBee (aa6115) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:45 pmSo….
“that’s not what they were advised to do.”
Oh my it seems you are right. And the issues here are quite complex:
http://www.slate.com/id/2229094/
Never mind. Don’t give tax advice.
imdw (d80111) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:48 pmimdw, you are an idiot.
telling someone to hide their income or lie about how much they make (to reduce it) repeatedly is not akin to fudging the facts and paying your due.
And you know it. You know your link doesn’t actually speak to the argument you’re making. I bet you’re not strong enough to actually listen to the full unedited audio or watch all the videos.
You’re helping ACORN, in your pathetic and dumb way, get away with helping villains hide their crimes. Which they do, every single day, all over the country for drug dealers and probably more than a few pimps.
There’s a reason communities with community organizers tend to suck, and that reason is democrats.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:53 pmLink for source about Hamsher dating Stern. (Politico)
MayBee (aa6115) — 2/12/2010 @ 2:55 pm“Levictius was objecting to an “over-broad definition of “troll””. That’s a fairly specific charge and I wondered what it’s about.”
– Subotai
I’ve seen Myron (for instance) ask what seemed to be good questions in what seemed to be good faith before, and be dismissed as a troll for past “trollish” behavior – making inflammatory remarks, then evading pertinent rebuttals, or dissembling, or whatever. My point is that even if he has made such remarks in the past (which he has – I can attest to that), he shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand when he attempts to engage in honest discussion. I couldn’t point you to any specific thread or set of comments, if that’s what you want.
I’ve also seen aphrael dismissed as a troll (as Stash pointed out), when anyone who’s been hear for any period of time knows he’s anything but.
And then we have this, Subotai: “The troll makes unsupported allegations and never attempts to substantiate them. The troll demands that the troll’s adversaries prove that the allegations are false.”
Followed closely by PCD remarking that :”I go after Liberal Cultists where it hurts them most, their pompous, over blown ego. Facts and logic mean nothing to them, and never has. Truth is a concept to them that must be bent to their Liberal screeds. You tell me Levi, just how ethical are the people on your side of the fence??? How many lies do they get to tell before you even notice they aren’t telling the truth?”
Which seems to fit your definition perfectly, and yet… the silence is deafening. So when you say that “Personally, [you’d] like to see the good liberal commenters here take a more active role in calling out the liberal trolls”, then I’m forced to reply with something along the lines of “see to thine own house first.”
Leviticus (30ac20) — 2/12/2010 @ 3:03 pm“You’re helping ACORN, in your pathetic and dumb way, get away with helping villains hide their crimes. ”
Let me be clear then: I think villains should pay their taxes.
imdw (79b436) — 2/12/2010 @ 3:04 pmO’Keefe played a few games with the video, but your right. The Acorn people did what he claimed they did… and that’s a real problem.
Mike Moore played with video and staged scenes (and his overall points were often wrong… if not lies…)… but some how I think these same people would defend him on the video errors… and the factual errors… ahem…
Thomass (250e33) — 2/12/2010 @ 3:07 pmWell, Leviticus, I did not accuse PCD of trolling but I was not silent about his remark.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/12/2010 @ 3:08 pm“Wheeler blogs for Hamsher, who used to date Andy Stern.”
LOL… now that fact certainly broadens the scope of the adage “politics makes strange bedfellows”.
I can just hear it now… both of them crying “death to heartless, war-mongering, scum-sucking, parasitic Republican running dogs!”, upon gettin’ their cookies.
GeneralMalaise (4d34a1) — 2/12/2010 @ 3:15 pm“Let me be clear then: I think villains should pay their taxes.
Comment by imdw ”
Agreed, agreed.
And ACORN thinks they shouldn’t.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/12/2010 @ 3:15 pmDoes imdw really not know about the “tin in the back yard” advice? And the “let me get my tax book; here, you can say you’re performance artists (or whatever it was – some legal thing) and BTW don’t forget to CLAIM THE ILLEGAL ALIEN MINOR EL SALVADORAN SEX SLAVES AS DEPENDENTS on your taxes.”
It’s really not surprising thousands of words are being spilled by Wheeler, Boehlert and Friedman to try to obscure blatant fraud being advised and encouraged by ACORN. There is no defense whatever for what they did. None. And this is what ACORN does all the time.
no one you know (1ebbb1) — 2/12/2010 @ 3:17 pm“Well, Leviticus, I did not accuse PCD of trolling but I was not silent about his remark.”
– SPQR
Whoops. Good point. Sorry I missed that.
Leviticus (30ac20) — 2/12/2010 @ 3:20 pmnoyk, that’s the most obvious and memorable example of ACORN wanting criminals to cheat taxes, but this was a consistent theme. The IRS must investigate with more sting operations.
they would take numbers and change them, they told pimps they could call their whores “dependents”. It was an exhaustive list of tax fraud and mortgage fraud.
Not only does this help drug dealers kill more kids, but the mortgage fraud had a role to play in our economic problems.
And why isn’t this exhaustively investigated? Democrats. I can only hope the GOP is more effective in 2011 when it’s back in power.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/12/2010 @ 3:24 pmThanks for your response, L.
I’ve also seen aphrael dismissed as a troll (as Stash pointed out), when anyone who’s been hear for any period of time knows he’s anything but.
I agree he’s not, and I’d say so if I saw him called one.
Followed closely by PCD remarking that etc
The thing is, I did challenge Neil Sagan to substantiate his charge. His charge was a specific one which can be shown to be either true or false. And he never came back to try to defend his position. This, I argue, is an example of classic troll behavior.
You never challenged PCD on his remarks, remarks which in any case are impossible to prove or disprove. His remarks are not an allegation in the same sense Niels are.
I go after Liberal Cultists where it hurts them most, their pompous, over blown ego.
I’d classify this in the same category as – “Coldplay are a sorry excuse for a band who make corporate bubblegum music!”. It’s an opinion. If PCD made a claim such as “Obama is a Nazi and was born in Kenya!” and it was ignored I think you’d be on better ground.
Anyhow, thanks again for your response.
Subotai (ef1da2) — 2/12/2010 @ 3:26 pmNo problem. Sorry if my response seemed a little… tetchy – I’ve been kind of defensive in my commenting today, for some reason.
Leviticus (30ac20) — 2/12/2010 @ 3:41 pmTo the contrary, Leviticus, your comments are fine.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/12/2010 @ 3:51 pmLet me be clear then: I think villains should pay their taxes.
Comment by imdw — 2/12/2010 @ 3:04 pm
So the way I understand your statement troll is this;
Assrapists of children are all right as long as they pay their taxes.
And you wonder why people here treat you with contempt. You are a sick person and need to seek psychiatric counseling as soon as possible.
peedoffamerican (5acf59) — 2/12/2010 @ 4:08 pm“So should someone refrain from giving a criminal enterprise the advice that it should follow the law?”
LOL. What they need to focus on is to refrain from offering to help smuggle female Central-American children across our border for purposes of prostitution and abet ancillary tax fraud.
Hope that helps!
GeneralMalaise (4d34a1) — 2/12/2010 @ 4:45 pmIn the context you’re using, it’s akin to approaching someone who wants to use his car to run over a playground of kids and telling him that he should be sure to use his turn signals.
Some chump (d97978) — 2/12/2010 @ 5:34 pmWell, Patty boy, I see you’ve done your homework, like reading Mein Kampf where it says that the good propagandist must never admit an ounce of truth in the claims of the other side and keep repeating the same simplistic distortions.
I’m sure you never bothered to read the Harshbarger report, let alone the articles posted by Brad Friedman and Marcy Wheeler, that expose you, not-so-bright Breitbart and your phony felon, video doctoring pimp James O’Keefe out of the water — articles that show that you were flat out wrong in the initial piece you posted where you denied the very content of the The New York Times articles that erroneously state that O’Keefe entered the ACORN offices dressed as a pimp, but hey, what difference do a few inconvenient truths make when they get in the way of what you are trying to say?
ruleolaw (f582e3) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:38 amruleolaw – Did you read Patterico’s pieces or just the posts of the Three Stooges?
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:44 amAfter reading Friedman’s mind numbingly inane and stupid posts here, I am not going to bother seeking out more inanity elsewhere.
And sorry, you’re confused about which team is playing for what with the silly ass Mein Kampf comment…not to mention that it is way early in the discussion for Godwin’s Law to have come into play.
EW1(SG) (edc268) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:49 amruleolaw knows things. Don’t try to confuse him with silly things like facts.
John Hitchcock (565942) — 2/13/2010 @ 12:12 pmWhat is with the fascination of ACORN, a non-profit that receives $3.5 million a year in Federal money? Halliburton, Bechtel, Blackwater all took in billions of $ and have defrauded the government in hundreds of millions, yet not a mention of these corporations. AIG, Goldman Sachs, BOA all destroyed the economy to the tune of trillions of $ and defrauded us in hundreds of billions, yet ACORN remains the whipping boy for …. what? Perhaps there’s a code here I am at a loss to decipher, something about ACORN that would cause such consternation, resentment and anger towards such an organization? Otherwise, it’s just plain silly.
oldsouth (d69f4c) — 2/13/2010 @ 2:28 pmRACISTS !!!! Code words, beeyotches. Ruleoflaw reminds me of trolls like twoofinjustice.
JD (7a6b3b) — 2/13/2010 @ 2:41 pm“Perhaps there’s a code here I am at a loss to decipher”
oldsouth – The liberals will not tell you why they continue to defend an organization which engages in voter registration fraud, embezzlement, tax fraud, mortgage fraud, and looking at the videos, who’s employees appear willing to support tax and mortgage fraud in the furtherance of prostitution and child sex slavery, until you learn the SECRET HANDSHAKE.
[note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/13/2010 @ 2:56 pmBoehlert claims in his pieces that it was not clear in the visits to six out of the eight ACORN offices that O’Keefe and Giles intended to run a child prostitution business. To me this indicates Boehlert is either a) willfully lying as he is known to do, b) watching an entirely different set of videos than the rest of America and/or c) does not understand the English language. The fact that the sham Harshberger report clears the ACORN employees from having engaged in any illegal acts means nothing, ultimately, which for some reason is why Boehlert, Friedman and Wheeler are hanging their hats on it.
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/13/2010 @ 3:06 pm“until you learn the SECRET HANDSHAKE”
But I’m not on a liberal website. I’m asking conservatives why they insist on making ACORN the top of “the to-do list” when Halliburton acknowledged electrocuting 13 soldiers while they were taking showers, several instances of rape, not to mention the outright fraud and embezzlement of tax dollars. Blackwater accused of the murder of innocent civilians, payment of our tax dollars for prostitutes and fraud and embezzlement, etc…
It’s ok when it’s done in another country by a US corporation? I just don’t understand why you hold up a two-bit non-profit as evil incarnate when there are much bigger fish to fry. The ‘secret code’ I was referring to was a bit sarcastic, to be honest, as I’m from the South and fully conversant with all such codes spoken down here.
[note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]
oldsouth (d69f4c) — 2/13/2010 @ 3:40 pmoldsouth,
Just call everyone here racist, be done with it, and on your way. I’ll be sure to look for your posts on those in the future since they’re so important to you that you want to ignore enablers of child slavery and rape. Of course, several have been debunked or already covered here. Thanks.
Stashiu3 (44da70) — 2/13/2010 @ 3:51 pmoldsouth, victory over the strawmen! I’m sure you’ll get a medal for that.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/13/2010 @ 3:55 pmHalliburton! Warforoil! Warmongering bloodlust! That read like any front page DailyKos diary.
JD (26414e) — 2/13/2010 @ 3:59 pmYeah, daleylocks, read Patty boys pieces; compared them to that which he is thoroughly unfamiliar–facts, evidence–and found them sorely wanting, as is your description of the report prepared by Scott Harshbarger, former Attorney General of MA, on his independent assessment. You describe Harshbarger’s conclusions as a “sham”–and your evidence is?
Meanwhile, Brad Friedman posted the latest on the series of pieces referencing the mysterious death of Mike Connell, Karl Rove’s IT man that arranged the “middle-man” cut out that permitted the Bush regime to engage in massive electronic voter fraud during the 2004 Presidential election. His site contains one of the nation’s finest repositories on e-voting including not only multiple scientific studies reflecting the ease by which elections can be flipped by those with exclusive access to the source codes of e-voting machines; the Clint Curtis story documenting the request made by Jeb Bush’s former running mate and former Republican Congressman Tom Feeney of infamous Abramoff repute, who asked for and received a e-vote stealing prototype from Curtis in October 2000; links to Dan Rather Reports episodes that document how Sequoia voting systems purposely sabotaged their punch card systems bound for the FL 2000 race with an eye towards replacing their inexpensive punch card systems with worthless (but at $3,000 a pop, covered by taxpayer monies) enormously expensive paperless touch screens.
The list could go on and on, but hey, those ACORN folks register poor people to vote–that makes ACORN the class enemy, so let’s pile on ACORN, doctor videos, do anything to stop the evil ACORN from assisting poor people in voting, staying in their homes and resisting predatory lenders.
But hey, what am I doing posting “facts” at Patty-boy’s right-wing propaganda site.
Patterico reminds me of Congressman Langrebbe, one of only two members of Congress to vote against articles of Impeachment against Richard Nixon. When asked how he could vote against the articles in the face of the “smoking gun” tapes, Langrebbe responded, “Don’t bother me with with the facts. My mind’s made up!”
And so it is with Patty Boy, daleylocks and the rest of the blinded-by-the-right trolls who inhabit sites like this.
ruleolaw (f582e3) — 2/13/2010 @ 4:37 pmThe conspiracy nutjobs are trying to fix our poor troll problem, I guess. Alas, they are failing.
Hey, ruleoflaw, in all your list, why did you omit the ACORN people convicted of fraudulent voter registrations?
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/13/2010 @ 4:40 pmslightly off topic but related to O’Keefe and Landrieu.
voiceofreason2 (d68de9) — 2/13/2010 @ 5:00 pmVitter has been sending emails about every other month to constituents who had contacted his office
for about 3 years.
Just started getting email updates from Landrieu early this year. Contacted her office about the same time as I did Vitter but never got a reply.
I’m ignoring “enablers of child slavery and rape” by not castigating ACORN who has a $3.5 million dollar payday from tax dollars while you are enabling numerous global corporations guilty of the exact same things and worse who swallow billions upon billions of tax dollars without end. It’s like swatting at a fly while your house is burning down, it makes no logical sense to fasten such rage and anger against such a bit player in the grand system of how screwed up government is. Evidently Stashiu3 is incorrect about “several have been debunked or already covered here” as a cursory search of this site would show no negative editorials or blog posts other than quotes from other blogs and media about Halliburton or Blackwater. In fact, most of the postings here are quite supportive and defensive of both corporations.
I would rather not call you racists. I don’t know you personally, but I do know that there is a much deeper meaning to the constant negative exposure of ACORN than what an “activist” may or may not have edited on camera, I’m just curious as to what this scorn and derision could possibly mean in a logical framework if it’s not just “code” for the Southern strategy used by Nixon, Reagan, etc.
I could care less about ACORN since I would rather worry about the house burning down instead.
oldsouth (d69f4c) — 2/13/2010 @ 5:04 pmSpor writes: “why did you omit the ACORN people convicted of fraudulent voter registrations?”
Please provide the identity of the “ACORN people convicted of fraudulent voter registrations,” providing a link and I’ll be happy to respond.
Meanwhile, Spore, take a look at the two pieces Brad Friedman wrote here and here where Brad discusses “the passel of election officials in Clay County, KY, arrested for buying and selling votes, manipulating ES&S electronic voting machines without the knowledge of voters, and otherwise fixing elections from 2002 to 2006.”
ruleolaw (f582e3) — 2/13/2010 @ 5:04 pmruleoflaw, you pretend ignorance? Well, that’s no surprise. So often the trolls pretend that. However ACORN workers have actually been convicted for fraudulent voter registrations unlike all your fantasies.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/13/2010 @ 5:08 pmoldsouth, your “cursory” search didn’t find anything. I’m shocked. Now, my “cursory” search still hasn’t seen a post from you anywhere on the topics you want to discuss. Why not go do that instead of trying to hijack threads here on behalf of three hacks? Thanks. Enjoy your weekend.
Stashiu3 (44da70) — 2/13/2010 @ 5:11 pmOh good Allah. An entire army of strawmen just got torched.
JD (c45fdb) — 2/13/2010 @ 5:15 pmNicegoing, Spor. You just demonstrated an instance in which someone “registering voters” defrauded ACORN by submitted lists of people who did not exist in order to get paid. ACORN would be the victim in the scam, not the perpetrator–but hey, I know the distinction between “victim” and “perpetrator” is a little to complex for your tiny right-wing mind.
Did you note that your linked article did not establish that there was a single fraudulently cast vote as a result of this nefarious activity?
Ooohhh! Another troll bites the dust!
ruleolaw (f582e3) — 2/13/2010 @ 5:38 pmoldsouth – Do all people from the south favor child prostitution or is it only in cases in which the prostitutes are illegal immigrants as described in the tapes made by O’Keefe in the various ACORN offices. Why would you support an organization which aids and abets illegal immigration, child prostitution, tax and mortgage fraud? How can you look at yourself in the mirror?
When a thread goes up about Halliburton or Blackwater, perhaps we can discuss those topics.
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/13/2010 @ 5:40 pm“Did you note that your linked article did not establish that there was a single fraudulently cast vote as a result of this nefarious activity?”
Did you notice he did not claim such votes were cast?
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/13/2010 @ 5:42 pm“ACORN would be the victim in the scam”
Gee, I thought other voters would have been the victims had the names remained on the rolls.
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/13/2010 @ 5:46 pmWith all due respect, daleyrocks, you’ve got to be as dumb as a rock.
The issue is “voter fraud” and the “Right” has never established a single case in which ACORN was behind the casting of a single, fraudulent vote. (If you contend otherwise, provide a link that supports your contention).
There have been people who defrauded ACORN by listing individuals–often people who do not even exist–as having been registered by them, which is what occurred in the referenced article.
In cases where such fraud has taken place, it is ACORN who turned these people into authorities.
The head of ACORN, Bertha Lewis, made this point when she was interviewed on Democracy Now, wherein she pointed to the Breitbart/O’Keefe phony “sting” as but “a continuation of the concentrated, relentless attacks on this organization by Republicans, by the right wing, when they couldn’t come up with anything that was true. And their voter registration allegations proved that they got caught in the trap, because all of those people in Florida were turned in by us.”
Even before the former MA Attorney General exposed O’Keefe videos as an elaborate hoax, and concluded that ACORN had not violated any law, Lewis observed:
“We have 700 employees across the country. Five of them actually got duped by this. But dozens of offices that were visited, these people were thrown out, and in several offices, the police were called. So, we don’t see unedited tapes. We don’t see the whole story.”
Compare that to the case where Anthony Mangone, a Westchester-based lawyer and lobbyist hired to help Election Systems & Software, testified that he tampered with ballots in a voting-fraud criminal case against a political operative working for then-state Sen. Nicholas Spano (R-Westchester) in 2002.
What you are either too dishonest or too stupid to see is that when someone gets paid by ACORN for registering a voter who does not even exist–say Mickey Mouse–the only victim of the fraud is ACORN, which is out the money it paid for the fraudulent registration. “Voter fraud” occurs only when a fraudulent registration leads to the casting of a fraudulent vote.
ruleolaw (f582e3) — 2/13/2010 @ 7:52 pm“The issue is “voter fraud” and the “Right” has never established a single case in which ACORN was behind the casting of a single, fraudulent vote. (If you contend otherwise, provide a link that supports your contention).”
A) This isn’t true, there are actual cases of real votes cast by ACORN thugs. It’s so rarely prosecuted, and the lack of prosecutions is what we are upset about, and yet the lack of prosecutions is also somehow the left’s argument for why we shouldn’t be concerned. After all, so few are convicted so there must not be a problem.
B) Everyone knows that they have thousands upon thousands of false registrations which make it impossible to really investigate election fraud in a timely manner. ACORN doesn’t care about our free elections.
It’s unfortunate anyone would pick up the cause of defending ACORN at this point.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:05 pm“So, we don’t see unedited tapes. We don’t see the whole story.””
ruleolaw – What do you imagine is on the unedited tapes? You libtards keep bring up that red herring as if the edited tapes were not damning enough and the unedited audio was not available. Please enlighten me.
The BS claim about nor committing crimes is just that. So what. Were you happy to see the ACORN employees willingly aiding O’Keefe and Giles in potential tax and mortgage fraud and opendly discussing helping them with a child prostitution business involving illegal immigrants? Please, please tell me that you are kidding and that you are happy that nobody took it the next step of completing and submitting a tax return or mortgage application. The willingness of the ACORN employees to cooperate and offer assistance to further illegal business was plenty embarrassing and damning to the organization. There is no actual need for criminal acts to have been committed for condemnation to rain down on ACORN’s head from sentient people.
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:05 pmHow many democrat leaning districts have more votes than actual voters?
It happens every election, and it’s always ACORN infested locations, but because it’s so hard to prove and rarely prosecuted (because that’s voter intimidation of course) the ACORN jokes pretend they are innocent of crimes they are hell bent on committing.
Claiming voter fraud isn’t a problem, when there are more votes than voters in some places, is an egregious dishonesty and a basic betrayal of mankind.
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:07 pmTo add to my last post, daleyrocks.
If I were to do my banking at, say, Bank of America. I go in, hand cash to a teller with a deposit slip. The teller pretends to place the money in the account; then pockets my money.
The bank discovers the embezzlement; turns the teller over to the authorities and restores the money to my account.
Is the Bank of America guilty of embezzlement simply because one of the people the bank hired was dishonest? Obviously not, and neither is ACORN when someone they retain to collect valid voter registrations, turns in bogus ones and defrauds ACORN in the process!
This whole Right wing scam of trying to pin “registration fraud” upon ACORN in these circumstances is a big time canard! And you, daleyrocks, either fell for it hook, line and sinker or you are a willing perpetrator of the Big Lie!
ruleolaw (f582e3) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:15 pmdaleyrocks asks, “what do you suppose happened to the unedited tapes?”
That’s a question you ought to be asking the phony pimp and accused felon O’Keefe, and perhaps his employer, Breitbart, the guy who put out the doctored version and who Patty boy seeks to protect in his two distorted posts.
ruleolaw (f582e3) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:21 pm“The issue is “voter fraud” and the “Right” has never established a single case in which ACORN was behind the casting of a single, fraudulent vote.”
ruleolaw – Without voter ID laws, which ACORN and the left fight tooth and claw, it is tough to nail voter fraud, don’t you agree? Why don’t you support fair elections? Also, the guy ACORN registered nine times in Ohio was convicted last year, so the string is broken.
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:26 pmruleoflaw demonstrates a constant of liberal trolls. They come here, pretend to be experts in a topic, and make a claim that is easily demolished.
Then they spend the rest of their time here trying to spin around the fact that they got pwned.
The bottom line remains that ruleoflaw has posted fantasy as fact, and pretended that fact was fantasy.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:29 pm“Is the Bank of America guilty of embezzlement simply because one of the people the bank hired was dishonest?”
ruleolaw – Nice try. Boif A would be written up by regulators or auditors for shitty controls. The other depositors would be victims to the extent of any shortfall. It’s too bad you fail to see the actual parallel.
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:29 pm“That’s a question you ought to be asking the phony pimp and accused felon O’Keefe”
ruleolaw – Bulldookey. You keep raising it as if it’s your most important talking point. Why are you afraid to actually address it since the actual videos are damaging enough and unedited audio is available?
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:33 pmDustin suggests that more votes than voters are repeatedly cast in Democratic districts where ACORN works the streets. Really, show me, and provide a link to, a single instance in which that occurred.
Here are some stats from Mark Crispin Miller’s Fooled Again relating to Ohio 2004.
“Election Day in Ohio saw lots of weird things happening to voters, and to the vote, in county after county—a broad range of electoral anomalies, not one of which resulted in a loss for Bush.” These included locking the press out of the first count and then the recount in Warren County, falsely claiming that the first lock-out was occasioned by a non-existent, FBI terrorist alert; a single voting machine that produced an extra 4,000 Bush votes in Franklyn County; ten Cleveland precincts that produced an unusually high number of votes for third party candidates; the sudden appearance of 19,000 extra Bush votes in Miami County “after all precincts reported;” a transfer of an unknown number of Kerry votes to Bush in Mahoning County by 25 E-voting machines; Youngstown, a Democratic stronghold, producing a negative 25 million votes; which is more than three times the total of Ohio’s registered voters, and the sudden disappearance of 4,000 votes for President, “representing nearly 7 percent of the electorate.”
And then there is the book produced by Stephen Freeman, Ph.D. and Joel Bleifuss, Was the 2004 Election Stolen?:
During the 2004 election, in “ten of the eleven battleground states there was a shift—that is, the official count differed from the exit-poll results—and in all ten the shift favored Bush.” The statistical odds of this occurring are one in 1,024. The discrepancies were especially acute in the key battleground states of Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida where the shifts in favor of Bush were 4.9%, 6.7% and 6.5%. According to Freeman/Bleifuss the odds of these “occurring together and all favoring the incumbent, Bush, is about one in 660,000.”
While Freeman/Bleifuss concede these stark disparities were not present in thousands of accurate exit-polls conducted over the preceding four decades, they acknowledge that, counting 2004, there were six occasions where significant discrepancies arose in U.S. Presidential elections, the previous five being the general elections of 1988 and 1992, along with the Florida 2000 vote, and in three Republican primaries. “In each of these six incidents…, the official count benefited the mainstream Republican candidate…And, remarkably, in five out of the six elections; the candidate whose official numbers far exceeded exit-poll results was named George Bush.”
ruleolaw (f582e3) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:33 pmruleolaw – Milwaukee, 2004 or 2006?
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:36 pm“the candidate whose official numbers far exceeded exit-poll results was named George Bush.”
Well, we all know exit polls are like quasi ifficial results, right?
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:39 pmBirthers, 9/11 Truthers and the rigged e-voting machine … all nutball conspiracies.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:40 pm“Here are some stats from Mark Crispin Miller’s Fooled Again relating to Ohio 2004.”
ruleolaw – Robert Kennedy did great work on the Ohio election in 2004, he’s also fantastic on vaccine-autism links, both in his own mind. Heh!
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:43 pmDuring the 2004 election, in “ten of the eleven battleground states there was a shift—that is, the official count differed from the exit-poll results—and in all ten the shift favored Bush.” The statistical odds of this occurring are one in 1,024. The discrepancies were especially acute in the key battleground states of Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida where the shifts in favor of Bush were 4.9%, 6.7% and 6.5%. According to Freeman/Bleifuss the odds of these “occurring together and all favoring the incumbent, Bush, is about one in 660,000.”
That’s right the exit polls were manipulated.
Manipulated Exit-Poll Data to De-legitimize the Republican Presidency
Gerald A (a66d02) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:45 pmDuring the 2004 election, in “ten of the eleven battleground states there was a shift—that is, the official count differed from the exit-poll results—and in all ten the shift favored Bush.” The statistical odds of this occurring are one in 1,024. The discrepancies were especially acute in the key battleground states of Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida where the shifts in favor of Bush were 4.9%, 6.7% and 6.5%. According to Freeman/Bleifuss the odds of these “occurring together and all favoring the incumbent, Bush, is about one in 660,000.”
You’re right the 2004 exit polls were manipulated.
Manipulated Exit-Poll Data
Gerald A (a66d02) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:51 pmdaleyrocks wrote: “Why are you afraid to actually address it since the actual videos are damaging enough and unedited audio is available?”
Thank you, daleyrocks, for proving that you never bothered to actually read the original Brad Friedman piece that gave rise to Patty boy’s erroneous posts.
Friedman quotes ACORN Communications Director Whelan:
“We have only seen the videos posted online by O’Keefe who has refused to release the unedited tapes. He also refused to release the unedited tapes or be interviewed during Scott Harshbarger’s investigation,” Whelan explained in his Wednesday email.
“In fact,” he continued, “the transcripts posted on biggovernment.com themselves reveal that O’Keefe presented himself as Giles boyfriend not her pimp – his scam involved a story about rescuing her from a violent pimp. So it would not have made sense for him to wear the costume, even within the fictional scenario he presented.
Are you really so incredibly stupid, daleyrocks, that you don’t know the difference between an “actual” video, which has never been released, and a hoax made to look like an authentic video?
You say that the unedited audio is available? Really? Then why does Harshbarger reveal that the transcripts do not match what your phony pimp “claims” is on that audio?
Oh, on exit-polls, Republican pollster Dick Morris observed that exit-polls are almost never wrong. They are so reliable that our own government uses them to measure the relative authenticity of foreign elections. Indeed, the Bush administration used our taxpayer funds for the purpose of testing whether the official results in a 2004 election in the Ukraine was accurate–cited the gap between the official count and the exit-polls as proof that electoral fraud had occurred.
As Freeman and Bleifuss observe, the “difference between conducting a pre-election telephone poll and conducting an Election Day exit-poll is like the difference between predicting snowfall…in advance of a snowstorm and estimating the region’s overall snowfall based on observed measurements taken at representative sites.” The Election Defense Alliance refers to exit-polls as “a valid means for independently assessing the veracity of intrinsically unverifiable electronic results.”
Kinda tough for you to keep slogging away when you come up against someone far more knowledgeable than you, isn’t it daleyrocks?
ruleolaw (f582e3) — 2/13/2010 @ 8:56 pmNow Dick Morris is a Republican pollster? ruleoflaw, your lack of contact with reality is beyond belief. You are not far more knowledgeable than even my cat.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/13/2010 @ 9:02 pmGerald A. — I’d strongly recommend that you take the time to read Professor Friedman’s work. You will find that he demolished the “manipulated exit-poll” theory and every other theory that was advanced to support the official count. Indeed, the only manipulation that occurred was when the pollsters “corrected” their exit-polls after the polls closed in order to reconcile them with the “official count” — something these same pollsters would never do for a foreign election.
Those who performed the polls included Warren Mitofsky who performed the very first exit poll ever taken in the 1964 CA Republican primary and had literally performed thousands of exit-polls on multiple continents without any suggestion that he was manipulating the polls. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support the conspiracy speculation that the Democrats manipulated the exit polls in order to slam the results. There is a great deal of information available at The Brad Blog and elsewhere which documents precisely how the Republicans carried out wholesale electronic vote flipping through a man-in-the-middle cut out in which the e-voting from Ohio was fed into a central computer terminal at the Republican HQ in KY.
ruleolaw (f582e3) — 2/13/2010 @ 9:04 pmHey, Spor, at last we can agree on something. Birthers are truly whack!
ruleolaw (f582e3) — 2/13/2010 @ 9:07 pmOh, and Spor, I’d add those who buy into the Sarah Palin “death panel” canard to the truly whack list.
ruleolaw (f582e3) — 2/13/2010 @ 9:10 pmruleoflaw, stick to trying to turn Dick Morris into a Republican pollster. It has been your high point.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/13/2010 @ 9:11 pmIndeed, the only manipulation that occurred was when the pollsters “corrected” their exit-polls after the polls closed in order to reconcile them with the “official count” — something these same pollsters would never do for a foreign election.
The leaked exit polls in 2004 before the polls closed were wildly out of whack not only with the final results in 2004 but with how those states had historically voted, genius. It showed Mississippi as too close to call, IIRC, a state that regularly goes easily Republican in Presidential races. So if they were corrected after they closed it was to cover up the fact that they were manipulated to depress Republican turnout. So if you want to go by those exit polls than you’d have to also claim all the past races were rigged and the final pre-election polls were somehow all way off. The leaked exit polls were also way out whack with those.
Try reading the link:
The Freeman guy you want to believe is just a liar who preys on idiots.
I get it, Warren Mitofsky proves there was no manipulation.
Gerald A (a66d02) — 2/13/2010 @ 9:27 pmruleolaw – Wading through all your nonsense on exit polls and voter registrations, the REAL issue is why Democrats are not in favor of fair elections.
On the ACORN tapes all you do is just raise distractions and refuse to answer questions. The ACORN folks in the videos are not raising holy hell about the edits distorting the content. If you claim they are, I would love to see some links. The only ones doing that are ininvolved third parties such as yourselves who don’t even know what they’re objecting to. Bertha Lewis tried blowing smoke about the tapes and got caught lying when she was exposed each time a new one was released.
Dude, your talking points just don’t hold together and it is truly sad you can’t see that. It’s also sad you can’t admit you are defending an organization’s willingness to aid and abet tax and mortgage fraud as well as child prostitution and try to wriggle out of it by hanging your hat on some BS excuse that no crimes were committed when it doesn’t matter if any were at all anyway.
Nice job there, sparky.
daleyrocks (718861) — 2/13/2010 @ 9:56 pmI say, just make sure people show their ID to vote or draw an absentee ballot (yeah, seriously, someone should check your ID before you get an absentee ballot, even if they have to come to you).
For some odd reason, democrats treat such an idea as a dire threat. I think it’s just plain good sense. But we live in a world where you can threaten to billy club republicans at the polls with a night stick and that’s no problem. Not that I expected any different when we put Chicago in charge.
We should put people in prison for any ballot or registration they tamper with, we should hold election judges up to criminal sanctions if they don’t check rolls (And send in fakes just in case). We should have an independent agency devoted to rooting out any fraud and sending anyone to prison who is behind it.
ACORN’s greatest sin is screwing with our elections, and it’s amazing so many are duped into thinking what they’ve done is no big deal. I can’t imagine the hysteria if the NRA or TEA party did the things ACORN has done.
If the GOP gets power and does not leverage it to ensure no shenanigans, they will come to sorely regret it.
And let’s go back to paper ballots and delay any reporting of election results until all results are in. No last county reporting in, always with just the number of votes needed (yeah, this happens).
Dustin (b54cdc) — 2/13/2010 @ 10:00 pmDustin: The GOP had power and did “leverage it” in order to engage in “shenanigans” aka massive, electronic electoral fraud.
But, that said, there is a part of your post with which I fully concur: “Let’s go back to paper ballots and delay any reporting on election results until all results are in.”
Election integrity is not a partisan issue. That is why Brad Friedman posted a lengthy article at the right-leaning Gueverneur Times concerning the questionable Democratic “victory” in last year’s NY-23 special Congressional election.
The one issue in which all “honest” conservatives and progressives should agree is that our vote is sacred; that every lawfully cast ballot should be counted in an open and transparent fashion before bi-partisan (or tri-partisan if you count third parties) observers.
We may not agree whom the better candidate would be to lead the nation, but all who favor democracy must support the idea that the candidate who receives the most votes (Left, Right or Center) should be the one who “wins” the election. And there is no way to know which candidate actually wins an election if we entrust the computation to machines that can be easily hacked.
ruleolaw (f582e3) — 2/14/2010 @ 9:13 amruleoflaw, these are all conspiracy fantasies of yours with no direct evidence at all.
SPQR (26be8b) — 2/14/2010 @ 9:16 amDon’t cry crocodile tears for Da Pimp. His connections kept him from the much more dangerous Orleans Parish Prison lockup where the incarcerated would have given the insane clown posse a night to remember. Determining WHICH lawyer should represent the elite crooks was more delicate than WHEN. Nonetheless, they were released to their parents like kids caught shoplifting candy bars…
Facts are these:
Breitbart and friends are determined, well-funded rat-fuckers that use extra-legal tactics as a matter of course and therefore, are not the ones to ask the law (or media) to protect them.
They may have visited that Comm Room many times before they were discovered, and, may have actually caused the telephone service interruptions, just as rat-fuckers have done and been successfully prosecuted for doing, in other locales.
Da Pimp bragged at the Pelican speech, online, and elsewhere that they were working on something really big, and not just a funny video exposé.
Were this a prank, why would it possess all the attributes of a covert operation?
Cover Story – Checking busy signal (Not manipulating the phone system to seize up/divert calls/intercept info. Not recording inbound/outbound calls. Not removing equipment. Not replacing batteries. Not eliminating radio frequency interference. Not swapping storage media. Not gathering “B Roll” audio & video.)
Deniability – “Prank”, “Stunt”, boys will be boys, etc ad nauseum, victims of Liberal Media
Dummy Fronts – BigJounalism.com fronting for Right Wing News ideologues
Funding – Morton Blackwell, Peter Thiell, et al, Leadership Institute/ Campus Reform, Speakers bureau, conservatives/teabaggers/libertarians, under the table?, 501(c)(3)
Communications – 2-way links to highest levels of law, government, politics – public discussions despite gag order
Radio Control – Stan Dai was verifying what and watching for whom and in radio contact with whom using equipment supplied by whom and monitored by whom/what?
Aliases – revel in disguise and mistaken identity
Job Changes – rat-fuckers assigned to campus activists and spook trainees – & vice versa
Housing – reunion at Birch St of classmates and past co-conspirators
Treasury Justice FBI – involvement widely regarded as indicating suspicion of conspiracy
I can’t guess how this story will evolve. However, for those concerned about truth and principle, this episode offers a unique opportunity for an inside look at an extremely well-financed Right Wing attempt to influence the Congress, the Federal Government, and the MSM.
[note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]
alfredo mendozo (8c89f3) — 2/14/2010 @ 9:49 am