Patterico's Pontifications

1/22/2010

Maybe Obama Isn’t The One

Filed under: Obama — DRJ @ 7:58 pm



[Guest post by DRJ]

Following Scott Brown’s win in Massachusetts, Kevin Drum convinces himself that smart liberals never thought of Barack Obama as The One or a Miracle Worker, let alone a Messiah. According to Drum, it was conservatives, not liberals, who talked this way:

“Did a lot of people really think Obama would be a miracle worker? I don’t personally know of a single person who felt that way, and the fact that he got huge crowds for his speeches means only that he was a charismatic guy, lots of people liked what he had to say, and liberals were stoked at the prospect of dumping Bush and Cheney. Sure, maybe a few thought he was the salvation of American politics, but there’s really not much evidence that this was a very widespread belief — and no evidence at all that Obama himself ever believed it.

In fact, this is mostly the triumph of a conservative narrative. It was conservatives who spent months during the 2008 campaign taunting Obama for his alleged messiah status and it was conservatives who were constantly misquoting him about being “The One” or griping about how he thought his silver tongue could save the world and induce vicious dictators to swoon.”

It wasn’t The Weekly Standard or the National Review idolizing Obama, was it? It was left-leaning publications like Time, the New York Magazine, and this cover at The New Republic:

There are more Obama-as-Messiah illustrations recorded at the ObamaMessiah blog that originate from the left, not the right, as well as these Obama descriptions:

“A Lightworker — An Attuned Being with Powerful Luminosity and High-Vibration Integrity who will actually help usher in a New Way of Being”

Mark Morford

“What Barack Obama has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history … The event itself is so extraordinary that another chapter could be added to the Bible to chronicle its significance”

Jesse Jackson, Jr.

“This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”

Barack Obama

“Does it not feel as if some special hand is guiding Obama on his journey, I mean, as he has said, the utter improbability of it all?”

Daily Kos

“This is bigger than Kennedy. … This is the New Testament.” … “I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don’t have that too often. No, seriously. It’s a dramatic event.”

Chris Matthews

“In a way Obama is standing above the country, above the world. He’s sort of GOD. He’s going to bring all different sides together.”

– Newsweek editor Evan Thomas

Too many liberals thought Obama was The One. It must be twice as hard for them to accept he’s not only not The One, he’s not a very good leader either.

— DRJ

100 Responses to “Maybe Obama Isn’t The One”

  1. This next little speech he’s going to give is a challenge I doubt the little man is up to. What he really really doesn’t need right now is the harsh glare of a spotlight.

    I’m pretty sure I’ll miss it cause of travel but my feel is it won’t help him. The last thing people want from the wretched little ponce is more words.

    happyfeet (e9e587)

  2. Kevin Drum you must just stop it, now. Laughing too hard. Can. Not. Breathe.

    elissa (c18d48)

  3. So far, he’s a miserable failure. Everything he touches goes sour. You name it, he’s made a bad situation worse.

    ropelight (a6070c)

  4. I like Kevin. Every once in a while I e-mail him and I think he could be an LA Times editor. He has the failings of his type, though. The lefties thought Obama was brilliant and their great black hope. There is going to be a lot of angry gnashing of teeth. They may not get over this for many years. Gorbachev thought that the USSR only needed better management. It’s a bit like thinking your crappy movie just needs better publicity.

    MIke K (2cf494)

  5. This is my favorite image from that time. It really captured the zeitgeist. Plus, I love the cute little birdies in the engines:
    http://www.oregoncommentator.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/hudson_river_miracle_obama-021.jpg

    gp (4c870c)

  6. So, DRJ: He gets one year to fix everything — a recession, two grinding wars and a host of other problems, and based on his inability to do that, he’s “not a very good leader”?

    Sounds like you’re buttressing the original premise that it’s indeed conservatives who believe Obama is The One. I never thought he would fix everything in one year.

    I know you guys had a good week, and I know it’s fun to go around crowing, but if you think he’s done, I think you’re going to be extremely disappointed. Pride goeth before a fall. You should have learned that from the Coakley campaign. The public may be wearying of Democrats, but they’re not thrilled about the Party of No, either. They want someone to do SOMETHING. Republicans have shown they can stop things but not demonstrated the slightest ability to improve things. Even if they get the House back this year, which I still view as unlikely, they’ll be right back out again when they spin their wheels like they did during Bush.

    Myron (a90986)

  7. Absofuckinglutely amazing. How stupid does Drum think people are?! He never struck me as on overt liar before.

    JD (be2df8)

  8. It was conservatives who spent months during the 2008 campaign taunting Obama for his alleged messiah status

    That’s a ridiculous rationalization, and it’s almost as bad as the current occupant of the Oval Office laying the blame for his problems — over and over again — on George Bush.

    However, after poring over dozens of letters in response to a magazine article that criticizes Obama, I don’t believe any of their writers — virtually all of them of the right — point to a simple facet of why anyone should have known from the very beginning that Obama was anything but a savior: Jeremiah Wright.

    As far as I’m concerned, to be so close to and friendly with a person like Minister “Goddamn America” is a window into a person’s mind, a sort of Rorschach test. And it spoke volumes about who Obama really was and is, and how bankrupt he truly is. And now the United States is kind of, well, goddamned.

    Mark (411533)

  9. Myron – Even the Dems are complaining about Barcky not leading. This is not just DRJ, or even conservatives. That you choose to ignore that is no surprise, and your comment has precious little to do with the actual post about Teh One.

    JD (be2df8)

  10. “He gets one year to fix everything — a recession, two grinding wars and a host of other problems, and based on his inability to do that, he’s “not a very good leader”?”

    Myron – Wrong premise. I don’t think anybody said he had to fix anything in one year, but go with that straw man if you need to. It’s more his lack of leadership, his fecklessness, his blatant lies, serial demonization of segments of the U.S., lack of understanding of economics, cronyism to beat the band, dismantling of freedoms, etc., etc. I could go on, but I’ll let a few other commenters have a piece of you.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  11. Myron,

    Perhaps you can help me. I don’t know if people are lieing through their teeth when they make claims like Kevin Drum did, or if they are so distorted and deluded in their thinking that they actually believe the things that they say that do not correspond to reality. Which is it?

    “This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”
    – Barack Obama

    “In a way Obama is standing above the country, above the world. He’s sort of GOD. He’s going to bring all different sides together.”
    – Newsweek editor Evan Thomas

    I don’t believe it was a conservative who said of Obama and his followers, “We are the ones we have been waiting for.”

    MD in Philly (d4668b)

  12. Comment by daleyrocks

    But besides all that, what do you have against him? 😉

    MD in Philly (d4668b)

  13. Myron,

    I’ve ended almost every Obama post since Brown’s election with a reminder that Republicans shouldn’t get overconfident … but it never hurts to say it again, so thanks for the reminder.

    As for whether Obama is a leader, you’ve set up a strawman by suggesting I think Obama has to “fix everything” in his first year to be a leader. No President will ever fix everything, let alone in one year, but real leaders find ways to motivate people in good times and in bad. Obama has a talent for mobilizing people in good times but he hasn’t shown any ability to motivate Americans in tough times.

    DRJ (84a0c3)

  14. So, DRJ: He gets one year to fix everything — a recession, two grinding wars and a host of other problems, and based on his inability to do that, he’s “not a very good leader”?

    No,The One isn’t a very good leader based on his inability to prioritize. When the economy is in a deep recession, that should be domestic priority Numero Uno. Obama should have put aside any thought of changing health care until the economy recovered. And speaking of the economy, Obama’s embrace of global warming activism is positively harmful.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  15. “…He gets one year to fix everything — a recession, two grinding wars and a host of other problems…”

    His main problem is that he hasn’t done anything to bring any level of improvement to any of the problems confronting the country;
    but instead, has made most of them noticeably worse. And, if there have been any improvements, it is because of a continuation of the policies of his predecessor that he continually decries.
    He has no original thoughts, and is a whiner.

    AD - RtR/OS! (f0e19b)

  16. Pride goeth before a fall.

    That saying deserves to be plastered all over the foreheads of the Massachusetts state legislators who cynically and contemptuously — and with the very essence of gall and chutzpah — did a contortionist routine to either forbid the state’s governor from being able to choose a US Senator who had died or become indefinitely incapacitated or, then later, to permit the state’s governor that very same right.

    And speaking of a person with too much pride and a possible fall from grace that goes with the territory, nothing defines bloated pride and certainly inflated ego — and a mentality of “it’s all about me, Me, ME!!” — better than the guy now occupying the Oval Office.

    Mark (411533)

  17. We have to give him credit for being a great leader for his ideological allies. He managed to take a recession, and make it much much worse, while simultaneously passing one of the biggest deficit-busting pork-laden “stimulus” bills in the history of the US. That, my friends, takes leadership.

    JD (be2df8)

  18. “He gets one year to fix everything …”

    #9, ditto. #6, Myron, you’ve missed the point entirely. It’s not that he hasn’t “fixed everything”, it’s that his “fixes” have arguably made everything worse. At the very least his economic “fixes” haven’t come close to the result promised. Remember: if we don’t pass the $787 billion “porkulous” bill we won’t be able to stop unemployment at 8%. Well we passed it, larded up with earmarks that Obamao promised he’d eliminate, and unemployment is at 10%. Unemployment and underemployment is running at about 17%.

    Of course the “porkulous” bill was going to fix our infrastructure, and the actual result is: about 22% unemployment in the building trades, but that’s OK because unemployment in the government is under 4%.

    Remember: “never let a good crisis go to waste”, right Rahm?

    We’ve dismantled effective enhanced interrogations and issued enemy combatants the rights of American citizens. We’ll spend hundreds of millions to give KSM a “trial” in NYC that will be nothing less than propaganda for AQ. We may not even convict him. Remember, Obamao himself agreed that his confession was coerced and that we’ll find him guilty and execute him – fair trial?

    We will add as much to the deficit in 20 months as Bush did in 8 years. Not that I liked Bush’s total failure to reign in deficit spending any more. However, Obamao and his supporters’ main argument about everything seems to be: well Bush did it too. What’s that got to do with change you can believe in?

    An on and on and on.

    Let’s be honest. This guy had little to no executive experience when he applied for this job and it shows. He’s clearly not a manager, let alone a leader. In all honesty I didn’t expect much more. He governs the way one would expect a senator to do – talk, talk, talk. Perhaps we’ll just talk our enemies and our problems to death.

    I won’t even get into the AGW hoax, the banks, GM, the student loan program, etc. But at least it’s all “transparent”, right?

    Harry Arthur (250a94)

  19. if you think he’s done, I think you’re going to be extremely disappointed.

    Oh, my disappointment is not premised on his being “done.” I think there is a possibility that he, in a fit of pique at his failures, will trash the financial markets (which he does not understand) and the stock market (which he understands less). In 1945, Hitler told Speer that the Germans did not deserve his brilliance and they should destroy the country as it was apparent that they could not win the war.

    Now, I am not comparing Obama to Hitler, but I think he could develop a similar delusion that the USA does not deserve his brilliant progressive image of life under Obamaism. Therefore, to punish us for our presumption in rejecting his image of our future, he will demolish this hated free market that we are always blathering on about. He really does not understand a modern economy. Fortunately for us, that lack of understanding will probably prevent him from a successful demolition

    Mike K (2cf494)

  20. What has become of America?
    http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/pdx/1442403975.html

    Willy WOnka (682e3b)

  21. So, DRJ: He gets one year to fix everything — a recession, two grinding wars and a host of other problems, and based on his inability to do that, he’s “not a very good leader”?

    Yes, based on his inability to make any progress whatsoever on any of those fronts, he is not a very good leader.

    Every single issue that fools like Myron wail Obama hasn’t had enough time to fix and we’re unjustly blaming him – he’s had more than enough time to fix them even just a little bit. He hasn’t. He’s failed miserably. There isn’t a single one that he hasn’t made worse.

    Sounds like you’re buttressing the original premise that it’s indeed conservatives who believe Obama is The One. I never thought he would fix everything in one year.

    Don’t hurt him, he’s made of straw!

    I know you guys had a good week, and I know it’s fun to go around crowing, but if you think he’s done, I think you’re going to be extremely disappointed.

    What else are you supposed to say? “Oh you guys I’ve seen the light, Obama’s done.” And hey man stop beating on that straw!

    Pride goeth before a fall. You should have learned that from the Coakley campaign.

    Oh please, spare us your pathetic attempts at lowering morale. They’re very obvious and very inept.

    The public may be wearying of Democrats, but they’re not thrilled about the Party of No, either. They want someone to do SOMETHING. Republicans have shown they can stop things but not demonstrated the slightest ability to improve things.

    Haven’t figured it out yet, Myron? The Democrats are so bad that the GOP doesn’t have to do anything but stand athwart Washington yelling “Stop!” and they’re winning elections. Of course the Republicans haven’t demonstrated any ability to improve things, they control neither the White House nor the Congress. How could they, especially when they have been completely shut out of legislative negotiations and bill writing?

    You display the same delusion that has gripped liberals nationwide – that since the American people want something done, that means they want your “something” to be done. Sorry, no, let’s lay that to rest, at last. They don’t want your “something.” They want “something” other than what you’re offering. And, so, they will kick you out of power and give the GOP a chance to do “something.” You, as usual, take one little pebble of truth and then try to make a mountain of ridiculous propaganda out of it.

    Oh and hey, that’s a great line and I’ll gladly steal it: Obama and the Democratic Party have demonstrated beyond any shadow of a doubt that they don’t have even the slightest ability to do anything. You’re an ironic kind of troll, I like that. Almost everything you say is more or less applicable to those you’re trying to defend. Hey, the GOP hasn’t done anything? Neither have the Dems, and they’re the ones in charge! Hilarious.

    Even if they get the House back this year, which I still view as unlikely, they’ll be right back out again when they spin their wheels like they did during Bush.

    I’m sure that the GOP leadership is eager to “spin their wheels” according to your command, Myron.

    What an amusing display of internet-caliber thinking we got from Myron here tonight.

    Chaos (9c54c6)

  22. What has become of America?
    http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/pdx/1442403975.html

    LUAP NOR! NUMBER ONE! WHOOO!

    Chaos (9c54c6)

  23. Myron is up to his usual trollery, I see.

    Obama is indeed a very poor leader. But amusingly, the best evidence is that he can’t even lead himself. Of all of the things he claimed that he would do, with his own authority, in his first year, what has been done? To quote SNL, “jack” and “squat”.

    He is a poor leader judged by his own words. But more importantly, his fecklessness is making our economic situation worse. Right now, his renomination of Bernanke for Fed Chairman is in trouble. Obama’s leadership in getting his own Fed Chairman confirmed? Nonexistant. And the stock market sells off this week in response to his screwing even that up.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  24. HA nice try Moron aka Myron. Your straw man is big enough to burn fifty unsuspecting Edward Woodwards to bring on harvests for the next century.

    SPC Jack Klompus (237c0e)

  25. Gee Zuz! There’s a lot of buyer’s remorse over there amongst the folks who elected this new God.

    I agree he’s not much of a leader. A leader occasionally has to put his hand in the fire and say “yes” or “no”–instead of always sitting on the sidelines and voting “present”. El “Present”idente stayed out of the way of the House and the Senate, and has thereby visited this trainwreck of a healthcare bill upon us all.

    Mike Myers (3c9845)

  26. Jay Leno says it well:

    “It’s hard to believe President Obama’s now been in office for a year. And you know, it’s incredible. He took something that was in terrible, terrible shape and he brought it back from the brink of disaster: The Republican Party.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  27. @6 Myron–
    Sounds like you’re buttressing the original premise that it’s indeed conservatives who believe Obama is The One. I never thought he would fix everything in one year.

    Myron, anecdotally, most of the conservatives I know did not expect him to fix anything in four years, much less one.

    President Obama’s Messiah complex was a construction of the Left, which was typically ridiculed by the Right — and now the Center as well. Please review all the quotes and citations DRJ supplied in her post and then compare them to yours (perhaps you will notice an inescapable conclusion).

    President Obama made promises he could not keep, broke promises he could keep, then took minor issues and made them into major issues. He then took major issues and made them worse.

    Now with these glaring failures, does he take responsibility, learn from his mistakes? Naw, because it is not his fault, so instead he gives us the classic: “What we have here is a failure to communicate”. Obviously he is lost.

    The Left has a fallen god, and no idea what to do about it.

    Pons Asinorum (1f16cc)

  28. @17 JD —
    We have to give him credit for being a great leader for his ideological allies. He managed to take a recession, and make it much much worse, while simultaneously passing one of the biggest deficit-busting pork-laden “stimulus” bills in the history of the US. That, my friends, takes leadership.

    ILMAO!

    That’s what I like about you JD, always looking for that silver lining!

    Pons Asinorum (1f16cc)

  29. I forsee much more backpedaling to come.

    Icy Texan (5ad1ee)

  30. Michelle Malkin kept calling him messiah and one. It was amusing. Like most of her writing.

    imdw (8f8ead)

  31. ^Myron’s ever loyal butt – boy never fails to heed that dog whistle.

    Dmac (539341)

  32. And instead of sending the Congress completed bills and drumming up public support for them, as legislatively successful past presidents like FDR, LBJ, and Reagan did, he just rolls a Christmas tree into the Capitol Rotunda and invites Reid and Pelosi and their vacuum-cleaner committee chairmen to festoon it with their favorite pork baubles. Stealing the Alaska Senate election with the fraudulent prosecution of Senator Stevens, (since retracted), the Minnesota Senate election with the fraudulent recounts against Senator Coleman, and the unchallenging seduction of Senator Specter as he was circling the Republican primary drain in Pennsylvania, to get 60 Democratic senators, enabled the public purchase of party loyalty, the dismissal of sincere moderates like Senator Olympia Snow, (whose furrowed brow is a mortal challenge to Botox), for a bad health care bill that is not a reform. This was not what was thought to be meant by the slogan ‘Yes we can!,’ is not leadership, and the people, even in Massachusetts, don’t like it.

    File this under the header of “Restoring America’s ‘good name'”

    Neo (7830e6)

  33. Patterico, you left out the most hilarious example of Obama worship, from the Huffington Post:

    > My musician friends and I are writing songs to inspire people and couples all over America are making love again and shouting “yes we can” as they climax!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lili-haydn/why-obama-is-like-a-deser_b_89285.html

    Comedy gold.

    A.W. (f97997)

  34. “..It was amusing. Like most of her writing…”

    And unlike your own. I just love trolls like this one claiming that the MSM wasn’t all starry eyed about BHO. The only problem? All the links provided in the post.

    Eric Blair (20b3a8)

  35. Dmac, i almost spewed a mouthful of peanuts on my laptop screen! Damn you!!!

    Icy Texan (88349b)

  36. “A Lightworker — An Attuned Being with Powerful Luminosity and High-Vibration Integrity who will actually help usher in a New Way of Being.

    Turns out he’s just an Ellie Lightworker.

    David Jack Smith (3d67e5)

  37. “Turns out he’s just an Ellie Lightworker,” with his pants on the ground.

    ropelight (5baf47)

  38. “Turns out he’s just an Ellie Lightworker,”…

    “with his pants on the ground…”

    And his head up his ass…

    David Jack Smith (9cb8c2)

  39. All: Comfort yourself with your jibes. I am not worried about Obama, long-term, or the Democrats. The reason is very simple: The GOP has no ability to govern, as we’ve seen when they had all the levers of power. Even if the elephants capture the house, they will lose it again shortly. This is to say nothing of their demographic shortcomings, soon to be aggravated by what I believe will be a more-or-less permanent shift with Latino voters. Minority groups can tell when there is hatred in the rhetoric toward them. This will trump any policy dispute when the immigration debates get going, and some in the Republican camp will not be able to resist acting like perfect asses, as we saw with Sotomayor.

    The GOP is good at the short game (“Southern strategy” etc.)– I’ll give them that. Beyond that, it’s a Democratic world. Look at the country today: Civil Rights, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, all important and fundamental shifts, went through — so who is really winning, long-term? We will get health care reform, too, and eventually climate change legislation. Either this year or later. Progressive reform sometimes take time, as we push over the forces of “interposition and nullification.” But we. Will. Win. We will never give up. Change cannot be stopped, only delayed.

    Myron (998393)

  40. Keep telling yourself that, Myron.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  41. it’s that his “fixes” have arguably made everything worse.

    This is a nice talking point, but the only major “fix” Obama has passed has been a stimulus,so what are you talking about? In revisionist history, and in order to take shots at the president, many people on your side are pretending that the U.S. could have simply gone without a stimulus. NO reputable economist at the time was saying that, however. Most G-8 nations and China passed their versions of stimulus packages to rescue the world economy. The debates here were over the size, scope and specifics of stimulus spending.

    In my opinion, the Dems made too many concessions to tax-cuts on the stimulus and did not spend enough — all to get Snowe’s vote.

    This is what I mean, incidentally, when I say Republicans have no ability to govern. They propose simplistic, ineffective solutions to complex, broad problems.

    “Wall Street and the economy is crashing and a Depression looms? Cut taxes!”

    Myron (998393)

  42. Bradley: Uh, you are aware those legislative measures were passed? It’s not that I’m “telling myself” that. The history books are telling me (and you, too, if you’ll read them.) 😉

    On that note, I’d be remiss to omit Roe v. Wade, which finally gave women, as opposed to the government, complete control over their own bodies.

    Myron (998393)

  43. Myron,
    You need to read your history again. Civil rights legislation was passed only because of Republican support, against Southern Democratic opposition.

    And since you mentioned Roe. v. Wade, which I support, the majority was dominated by justices appointed by Republicans. Namely, Chief Justice Burger, along with Blackmun, Powell, Stewart and Brennan. Only Douglas and Marshall were appointed by Democrats.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  44. “Progressive reform sometimes take time, as we push over the forces of “interposition and nullification.”

    Look at civil rights for example. It took a civil war, then reconstruction, then the forces of reaction were winning for a while. It took 100 years, but finally progressive vision of civil rights won out and is now uncontroversial. And still there is work to do.

    imdw (1ffec3)

  45. Myron,
    And since you mentioned climate change legislation, you must be blissfully unaware of how much fraud is being exposed. Public support is dropping as AGW scams are being revealed. I’m not just referring to Climategate, but to carbon trading fraud and the scam perpetrated by the head of the IPCC.

    But do go on telling people that Democrats support global warming legislation, which will cripple our economy.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  46. Look at civil rights for example. It took a civil war, then reconstruction, then the forces of reaction were winning for a while.

    Yes, those racists in the Democratic party didn’t give up easily.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  47. And also on the global warming front, the discredited claim about Himalayan glaciers melting by 2035 is going down the memory hole.

    Note not only did they cite the now famous false glacier melting alarm from IPCC AR4, they moved it up five years to 2030!

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  48. “Yes, those racists in the Democratic party didn’t give up easily.”

    This is definitely something worth hanging on to. Unless that southern racist democrat is being praised by a contemporary republican. Then it is time to move on.

    imdw (795ee1)

  49. The progressive trolls are sure out this morning.

    I am not worried about Obama, long-term, or the Democrats.

    I don’t think you have to worry about Obama very long term as he will be an ex-president in 2013. Any day now, I expect a lecture from him on national “malaise” as he sits in his cardigan sweater.

    Moron is convinced that Republicans can’t govern. We could have a look at US history.

    Lincoln.

    After the Civil War we had a period of 50 years of peace and prosperity as the country grew rapidly, the frontier closed and the period is called “The Gilded Age.” I wonder why it would be called that ?

    How many Democrat presidents were there during that time ?

    In 1912, due to a split between the Progressive Republican and the rest of the party, we elected a Democrat.

    War followed.

    In 1920, at the end of the First World War, we had a sharp recession. It was worse than 1929 by far. What happened?

    Harding and Coolidge were elected and they cut taxes.

    A year later, the recession was over.

    In 1929, a sharp recession occurred. The progressive president Hoover signed the Smoot-Hawley tariff and raised taxes to balance the budget. He ran a deficit and lost the 1932 election to Roosevelt who promised to balance the budget.

    We know what happened then.

    In 1952, we elected the first Republican president since Hoover.

    Peace and prosperity until 1961.

    We elected a young inexperienced Democrat in 1960.

    What happened ?

    War and the end of the post-war bull market in 1966.

    Nixon was elected but governed like a Democrat (“We are all Keynsians now.”)

    In 1980, in the depths of a financial disaster, we elected Reagan.

    What happened ? Peace and prosperity.

    Are you detecting a trend, Moron ?

    Mike K (2cf494)

  50. In revisionist history, and in order to take shots at the president, many people on your side are pretending that the U.S. could have simply gone without a stimulus.

    That’s a poor argument. There’s a difference between arguing against the “stimulus” package that Obama pushed and arguing against any stimulus at all.

    The package that got passed was not stimulus, it was a long-term spending bill. That really hasn’t done much to jump-start the economy.

    Some chump (d97978)

  51. See, Dr. K, you are making an assumption: that any of these prools (progressive trolls) knows any of the history you just outlined.

    Eric Blair (5920de)

  52. “In 1912, due to a split between the Progressive Republican and the rest of the party, we elected a Democrat.

    War followed.”

    Setting up this sequence of events is really top notch. We elected a democrat in 1912 and….”war followed.”

    “The package that got passed was not stimulus, it was a long-term spending bill. ”

    About a 1/3 of it was tax cuts. There was short term spending — specially to bost state budgets — but that displeased president snowe.

    imdw (603c39)

  53. Well, troll, I could have said “Fascism followed” but I don’t think you know enough history to follow that thread. Do some reading about Wilson’s administration some time.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  54. “Well, troll, I could have said “Fascism followed” but I don’t think you know enough history to follow that thread. ”

    It’s a great use of the passive voice. To link a 1912 election in the US to the killing of an archduke, a european war, and the finally the entry of the US into that was 5 years later.

    I think your first usage is best.

    “Do some reading about Wilson’s administration some time.”

    Poor old eugene debs huh?

    imdw (f7b257)

  55. It’s interesting that, on the Sunday shows, the administration puts political people, Gibbs and Axelrod, forth as spokesmen. Not policy people but the political people again. What the F**K does Axelrod know about economics ????

    Mike K (2cf494)

  56. “Does it not feel as if some special hand is guiding Obama on his journey, I mean, as he has said, the utter improbability of it all?”

    Substitute “sheer stupidity” for “utter improbability” and it rings a little more honest.

    GeneralMalaise (c840dd)

  57. Eric Blair,
    See, Dr. K, you are making an assumption: that any of these prools (progressive trolls) knows any of the history you just outlined.

    That goes across the board for the liberal progressive side. They know what they’re supposed to believe, but don’t know why. They just repeat what they’ve been told. And when you get into the fundamentals of an issue, this becomes very clear.

    This old college friend who I recently friended on Facebook debated global warming with me by cutting and pasting an entire article from Climate Progress, a project of the Center for American Progress Action Fund.

    Yet he said his pro-AGW views were developed from studying the science. Then why go to a political site? I think because he didn’t know how to respond and it was easier to cut-and-paste a pre-digested answer for progressives.

    The Climate Progress piece’s whole premise was flawed, because it tried to use melting of Himalayan glaciers as evidence for global warming. But most of the melting is linked to deposits of black carbon (soot), a localized phenomenon which has nothing to do with greenhouse gases on a global scale. I didn’t go to a Libertarian or conservative site to get that answer; I knew the answer already from having read about that issue.

    I pointed this out to my friend, and he still hasn’t replied. Guess Climate Progress hasn’t found an answer to that one.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  58. “It’s interesting that, on the Sunday shows, the administration puts political people, Gibbs and Axelrod, forth as spokesmen. Not policy people but the political people again. What the F**K does Axelrod know about economics ????”

    You’re on to something here. When did you first notice this phenomenon that political people go on the political sunday talk shows?

    imdw (de7003)

  59. Folks, go re-read post #39. Myron did a masterful job of projection. My favorite? His seemingly non-ironic statement that Republicans cannot govern, even when they have control of government.

    Um. Who holds the Oval Office and Congress now? But then, Myron probably feels this government is earning a B+ right now.

    What is the Latin name for an ostrich? It seems like a good fit for these suddenly bitter clingers.

    Oh, and Dr. K? Don’t you love being lectured on history by imdw? He seems so well informed and humble.

    Eric Blair (5920de)

  60. After imdw is done teaching history, perhaps he’ll put his profound intellect and vast store of knowledge to work informing us about the settled science behind AGW theory.

    That would really be a treat.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  61. I don’t think imdw knows that there are people we call Secretary of the Treasury or Chief Economic Advisor or Chairman of the Federal Reserve. Those people actually have things like PhDs in economics or experience as, for example, Secretary of the Treasury under Clinton.

    Instead, he/she/it thinks that the world is run by people with a BA in gender studies, or political science.

    Axelrod the University of Chicago. He majored in political science. As an undergraduate, Axelrod wrote for the Hyde Park Herald, covering politics, and picked up an internship at the Chicago Tribune. They hired him when he graduated in 1977.

    I didn’t notice any degrees in economics there.

    David Plouffe, who has an op-ed today on what Obama’s agenda should be.

    He was a political science major at the University of Delaware, attending from fall 1985 through fall 1988. He did not complete his education before he set out on a career in politics

    These are the people running the country !

    Mike K (2cf494)

  62. Oh, and it was just f*cking precious and cute how Myron threw that canard/meme/BS in there how we are all hating hatey haters what hate brown people. That is a f*cking lie and you are a f*cking liar, Myron. That is all.

    GO COLTS !!!!!!!!!

    JD (867246)

  63. ” He was a political science major at the University of Delaware, attending from fall 1985 through fall 1988. He did not complete his education before he set out on a career in politics

    These are the people running the country !”

    Again. This is a fascinating phenomenon. When did you first notice that people who did not finish their college degrees had positions of high political importance, and showed up on sunday shows?

    Though unless things have changed, Plouffe is not “running the country.” He is not in the administration. He is at the OFA and, I believe, the DNC.

    imdw (688568)

  64. Notice that they are not planning to lead, much less govern. Their decision was to campaign.

    JD (867246)

  65. Once again, the “political people” are running this administration whereas the “policy people” were running the Clinton administration. The political people, like Plouffe and Axelrod, are ignorant on everything except selling stuff with astroturf and message development. They know NOTHING about economics, and the same is true of their candidate.

    There was a lot of concern when Rove moved into the Bush white house in Bush’s second term. In this administration, there is nothing but politics in the white house.

    When did you first notice that people who did not finish their college degrees had positions of high political importance, and showed up on sunday shows?

    A year ago at Obama’s inauguration. Before that, it was unknown.

    Are you really this ignorant or is this a parody ?

    Mike K (2cf494)

  66. “A year ago at Obama’s inauguration. Before that, it was unknown.”

    So you say this just after you say…

    “There was a lot of concern when Rove moved into the Bush white house in Bush’s second term.”

    Which makes me think maybe you know what Rove’s college degree was in.

    But again, Plouffe is not in the administration.

    imdw (72206b)

  67. A couple days ago Mickey Kaus hopefully predicted that the flailing administration was “about 36 hours away from a beltway call for wise men”.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/kausfiles/archive/2010/01/22/it-s-not-rahm-s-fault.aspx

    Instead they brought in Plouffe. That pretty much says it all.

    elissa (2faf0a)

  68. imdw — you need to stay up to date a little better.

    As of today, Plouffe has been put in charge of coordinating all WH and DNC political operations with respect to the 2010 elections, including coordinating efforts between Senate, House, and Gov. races.

    While this is technically not a “policy” position, its basically the same job Rove had in the Bush WH — to navigate the intersection of political and policy concerns.

    WLS Shipwrecked (3d3fb8)

  69. Bradley at 43 – I agree with you here in principal but don’t limit the ctiicism to southern Democrats. John Kennedy voted against Republican civil rights legislation when he was a Senator and FDR (and other Democratic politicians) repeatedly blocked Republican efforts to make lynching a federal law enforcment issue.
    Neither of those gentlemen could be called Southern.

    Have Blue (854a6e)

  70. Have Blue,
    Thank you for the correction. I didn’t know that about JFK and FDR.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  71. “As of today, Plouffe has been put in charge of coordinating all WH and DNC political operations with respect to the 2010 elections, including coordinating efforts between Senate, House, and Gov. races.”

    Yes I read today’s paper that said he was going to be at the DNC.

    imdw (017d51)

  72. imdw — where he’s sitting is irreleavant. The NYT article says Jim Messina will be in charge of the WH operation, but Plouffe will be “coordinating” everything – Messina will be reporting to Plouffe.

    WLS Shipwrecked (3d3fb8)

  73. I am giving up the attempt at education of ignoramuses. I will provide a link to another take on the issue.

    There actually are well qualified people in this administration. Larry Summers should be Sec Treas but he ran afoul of the feminazis with his experience as Harvard president and was not allowed to take the office he was well qualified for. Instead a tax cheater who was part of the real estate bubble problem at the NY Fed was chosen.

    When Clinton was president, Rubin was basically running economic policy and I was unhappy with his decisions in the Mexican bond bailout but at least he was an experienced financial manager. I cannot recall a previous president turning his administration over to political managers. Jimmy Carter probably gave too much authority to Bert Lance but at least Lance was a banker.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  74. WLS: just remember. The Untergraduate (!) knows things. He is so smart and doesn’t make mistakes! He is all about accuracy, not Defending the D.

    Eric Blair (158a7b)

  75. In 1929, a sharp recession occurred. The progressive president Hoover signed the Smoot-Hawley tariff and raised taxes to balance the budget. He ran a deficit and lost the 1932 election to Roosevelt who promised to balance the budget. Comment by Mike K — 1/24/2010 @ 7:38 am

    It’s only because of this forum that I made an effort a few months ago to fill in the gap of ignorance I previously had about Hoover and Roosevelt. I originally was under the false notion (certainly not discouraged by the left) that the Great Depression was made far worse because Republican Hoover was a laissez-faire, survival-of-the-fittest conservative. That he was sort of libertarian and standoffish in his approach to economic misery. Damn, was I wrong about that one!

    Taxhistory.org:

    Some of the most important elements of the New Deal tax regime were engineered by Herbert Hoover. Congress passed the Revenue Act of 1932 five months before Franklin Roosevelt won his bid for the White House. But key elements of the law — including an array of regressive consumption taxes — remained a cornerstone of federal finance throughout the 1930s.

    The 1932 act imposed the largest peacetime tax increase in American history….Lawmakers raised income tax rates across the board, with the top marginal rate jumping from 25 percent to 63 percent; overall effective rates on the richest 1 percent doubled, according to economic historian Elliot Brownlee. Meanwhile, estate tax rates also climbed sharply, while the exemption was cut by half.

    For all its progressive features, Hoover’s revenue swan song — which passed with strong support from the Democratic majority in Congress — also included an array of regressive excise taxes. The law created new levies (including taxes on gasoline and electricity), while raising rates for old ones. As a group, most of these consumption taxes fell squarely on the shoulders of Roosevelt’s famous Forgotten Man. Yet once in office, the new president did nothing to reduce them.

    Some of the biggest blunders of Republican administrations — of presidents of the right (or certainly not of the left) — have originated from decisionmaking of a liberal bent—eg, Reagan going against his own publicly stated policy of never dealing with hostage-taking nations and the ensuing goof of his secret negotiations with Iran, or Bush Sr’s “read my lips, no new taxes!”, or Bush Jr’s touchy-feely approach to Supreme Court nominees, illegal immigration, feel-good bloated budgets.

    And so with back-to-back White Houses of Hoover and Roosevelt all under the idiocy of liberal (or “progressive”) economic policymaking, no wonder the Great Depression went from bad to worse. No wonder the effects of the great stock market crash of 1929 lingered well past the start of WWII.

    As for the reason I favor the phrase “limousine liberal”? Because it’s applicable in so many instances, time and time again:

    Consider, for instance, the tax returns of Franklin D. Roosevelt. The returns were not released during FDR’s presidency, but had they been, they would have proved an embarrassment. Tax Analysts has recently acquired from the National Archives copies of the tax returns that Roosevelt filed between 1913 and 1937. And as a group, they reveal something striking: Roosevelt — a vicious and moralistic scourge of tax avoiders everywhere — had a penchant for minimizing his own taxes.

    An even more striking example of Roosevelt’s tax avoidance involved a technique that only a president could love. During his first term in office, FDR repeatedly claimed that he was exempt from the high tax rates on personal income that Congress had enacted — and Roosevelt had approved — in the revenue acts of 1934 and 1935. blockquote>

    Mark (411533)

  76. “I am giving up the attempt at education of ignoramuses. ”

    Once you figure where Karl Rove got his degree, then you can turn to educating me on another topic:

    “I cannot recall a previous president turning his administration over to political managers.”

    Please teach me about the “mayberry machiavellis.”

    imdw (00bfab)

  77. Today, on the sunday morning news / talk shows, we saw that the white house line is to deny demogoging wall street and banks … and in the same sentence demogogue wall street and bank.

    The Obama administration is showing with its desperate attempt to deflect attention from its disasterous economic policies by attacking the financial sector. The best analogy is to address a shortage of egg production by threatening to shoot chickens. This is the kind of thinking I’d expect from Bolsheviks, not from adults.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  78. FDR was an extraordinarily dishonest politician, even of his era. That he is viewed as a Democratic deity ( along with the even worse Woodrow Wilson ) has always told me a lot about Democrats lack of principles and ignorance of historical fact.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  79. Karl Rove, who was a political consultant for Bush and who did not have a policy position, never graduated from college. Was that your big triumph ?

    I’m not going to try to educate you anymore but for others who may be confused by your non sequiturs, Rove did not hold a policy position. When it looked like he was gaining some role in policy, I was not happy about it.

    In Obama’s administration, ALL the policy is determined by political consultants who know nothing about economics.

    Now, we have Carol Browner, another Poli Sci major, running EPA and taking over the global warming policy shop.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  80. Barcky is nothing other than a successful ad campaign for a craptacular product. He is a Slap Chop, or a ShamWow!

    JD (0e2efa)

  81. Comment by Mark — 1/24/2010 @ 10:05 am

    I once read a letter FDR wrote to a couple of IRS bureaucrats, trying to weasel out of paying his full tax share. The bureaucrats told him that no, in fact he still needed to pay what was legislated.

    That took a lot of balls to tell the President of the United States to pay up. I can’t imagine anyone doing that today.

    FDR isn’t quite the most overrated President in American history (that would be JFK), but he was certainly the most oily, two-faced, and unprincipled.

    Another Chris (35bdd0)

  82. “Karl Rove, who was a political consultant for Bush and who did not have a policy position, never graduated from college. Was that your big triumph ?”

    To get educated by you is an honor. Specially when you point out the non-sequitor nature of the lack of college degree of a previous political adviser when now discussing the lack of college degree of a contemporary political advisor.

    “Now, we have Carol Browner, another Poli Sci major, running EPA and taking over the global warming policy shop.”

    So lets look at how unprecedented this is. Of the past 4 EPA heads, one was a chemical engineer with years of EPA experience, one was a pathologist who worked in biotech, another has a BA in economics, and the 4th has a degree in government.

    Please educate me on this.

    imdw (1ffec3)

  83. “Karl Rove, who was a political consultant for Bush and who did not have a policy position, never graduated from college.”

    So imdw and Rove have something in common. Why is Rove so much smarter?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  84. Iamadickwad has proven JD’s 1st Rule of Trolls, repeatedly, this week.

    JD (0e2efa)

  85. Wait.

    Did imdw actually write:

    “.. Specially when you point out the non-sequitor …”

    THAT is funny. Debate Club Boy is ALL about the non-sequitor.

    Eric Blair (20b3a8)

  86. In my opinion, the Dems made too many concessions to tax-cuts on the stimulus and did not spend enough — all to get Snowe’s vote.

    This is the great fallacy of progressive thinking laid out in one neat sentence–that a failure of anything can be traced to a lack of funds above any other factor.

    Myron never acknowledges the fact that the US is broke. We don’t have the money to spend–just more and more debt bought either by foreign nations or by the Fed on the back end from primary dealers.

    The idea that the stimulus would have worked if we had “just spent more money” is sheer ignorance. The “stimulus” was destined to fail from the very beginning because the states have seen their tax revenues fall through the floor, and it was inevitable that they have used that money to cover their budget shortfalls, which still exist and are getting worse in some cases. Obama himself even said at the time that it was the private sector that creates jobs, but there was very little money earmarked for private sector ventures at all. It’s all gone to the public sector, which is like taking out debt on a credit card to pay off another credit card.

    And Myron’s little sop about “revisionist history” brings to mind the quote I cited from Dennis the Peasant the other day:

    Times are tough right now, and the last thing anyone wants to hear is a president making excuses about how everything is either (a) really hard, or (b) somebody else’s fault. Nobody gives a fuck about that.

    Voters are not interested in excuses. Period. They are interested in results.

    I honestly hope that the Dems keep going with this line of argumentation that the Republicans are “obstructing” their agenda, as if the opposing party never tries to thwart the implementation of the the policies of the other. It’s this kind of excuse-mongering that’s going to result in greater Dem losses in the coming mid-terms. If the Dems don’t want to put on the Big Boy Pants, then maybe we can at least hope for gridlock for the next 2-6 years.

    Another Chris (35bdd0)

  87. I know, JD. There is a willful ignorance at work. There is active ignorance and passive ignorance. The passive just don’t know anything. The active are determined to prove it.

    I was not the first one to point out that Obama’s administration has political consultants at the center of it rather than policy people, whether or not you disagree with them.

    Next the troll will point out that Harry Truman did not have a college degree.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  88. Willful, active, or passive. Regardless of the descriptor, iamadickwad is still ignorant. And disingenuous.

    JD (2a6cfd)

  89. imdw,
    Please educate me on this.

    Actually, we’re awaiting your lesson on the settled science behind AGW. Please enlighten us with your vast intellect and renowned scientific learning.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  90. And very, very worried JD. Can’t you smell the flop sweat in his and Myron’s posts? They lost Kennedy’s seat. Gitmo is still open. Obamacare is opposed by a majority. Their Golden Progressive isn’t leading, but campaigning. And with 60 Senate seats (whoops, 59 and counting) and the Presidency, all that they have accomplished is throwing money to lobbyists. While decrying lobbyists.

    Get the popcorn. Nemesis is punishing hubris.

    Eric Blair (20b3a8)

  91. Eric, I’m actually more worried about what Obama may do to the country to punish us for not loving him and his plans (whatever they are) for us. The Plouffe op-ed suggests they do not get it. Even Megan McArdle is concerned they make a big mistake. After the Dow dropped 500 points, there isn’t much more room for error.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  92. Btw, here is something creepy. There is an obscure name for the anti-christ: the light bringer.

    Not that i buy its implications, i just find it creepy.

    A.W. (f97997)

  93. Elections have consequences, Dr. K.

    Remember: “We are the ones we have been waiting for”?

    Narcissism. Ignorance. Arrogance. Certitude.

    Just like some of our trolls.

    Hope and Change!

    Besides, this is all Bush’s fault. No blood for oil! Peer review! The science is settled. The most ethical and honest Congress in history.

    There will be a cost, Dr. K. But voters are waking up. Finally. I mean, Massachusetts?

    Eric Blair (20b3a8)

  94. Not that i buy its implications, i just find it creepy.

    This is quite normal for political spin, which often works for one purpose by disguising itself with language suggesting the opposite. For example, “reproductive rights” actually means the right not to reproduce.

    In this case, the Astroturf is to hide the evidence of Obama’s declining popularity in a cloud of misleading propaganda. So choosing the name “light,” which is the opposite of the real purpose, is quite apropos.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  95. That David Poofter drivel linked above is likely the outline for the SOTU coming up. There were so many lies it was hard to keep track of them all.

    JD (437ae2)

  96. Dr. Jerome Groopman (H/t to Mickey Kaus) has an interesting piece on the questionable assumptions underlying ObamaCare, such as its reliance on “best practices.”

    Over the past decade, federal “choice architects”—i.e., doctors and other experts acting for the government and making use of research on comparative effectiveness—have repeatedly identified “best practices,” only to have them shown to be ineffective or even deleterious.

    For example, Medicare specified that it was a “best practice” to tightly control blood sugar levels in critically ill patients in intensive care. That measure of quality was not only shown to be wrong but resulted in a higher likelihood of death when compared to measures allowing a more flexible treatment and higher blood sugar. Similarly, government officials directed that normal blood sugar levels should be maintained in ambulatory diabetics with cardiovascular disease. Studies in Canada and the United States showed that this “best practice” was misconceived. There were more deaths when doctors obeyed this rule than when patients received what the government had designated as subpar treatment (in which sugar levels were allowed to vary).

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (9eb641)

  97. The science is settled, Bradley! You must be a denier! 11ty!

    Eric Blair (c5b815)

  98. Bradley and Eric, there is a good book out about Diabetes called Diabetes Rising that has a lot of information. My son has now read it and liked it a lot. Some of those issues are covered, such as tight control.

    The big problem with guidelines is that so many are “consensus guidelines” which mean very little. Most doctors don’t trust them because they, rightly, suspect that many are based on cost.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  99. .

    Maybe Obama Isn’t The One

    Oh, I’m sure — absolutely certain — that Obama is The One.

    .

    I’m just not sure “The One what?”

    .

    IgotBupkis (79d71d)

  100. Let’s not forget hard-core right wing ultraconservative Oprah Winfrey’s flat-out declaration that Obama “is The One”.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVcTdbemaVY (includes some silly Judas Priest backward-masking analysis at the end, feel free to ignore that).

    Doug (49078c)


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