Patterico's Pontifications

1/11/2010

Clarence Thomas in 2008 on Harry Reid’s Insults: “Who Were the Real Bigots? It’s Obvious”

Filed under: Judiciary,Race — Patterico @ 7:33 pm



Remember when Jan Crawford interviewed Clarence Thomas in 2008? She asked him about Harry Reid’s comment — which, as I reminded readers over the weekend, was based on falsehoods — that Thomas

has been an embarrassment to the Supreme Court. I think that his opinions are poorly written. I don’t — I just don’t think that he’s done a good job as a Supreme Court justice.

Crawford today recalled Thomas’s response:

In an interview in 2008, I asked Thomas why people continue to embrace this grossly false storyline — why they sell him short, understate his intellect — and why they persistently believe he merely has “followed” Scalia, when in fact there’s absolutely no basis for that.

“Give me a break. I mean this is part of the — you know, the black guy is supposed to follow somebody white. We know that,” Thomas told me. “Come on, we know the story behind that. I mean there’s no need to sort of tip-toe around that … The story line was that, well I couldn’t be doing this myself, he must be doing it for me because I’m black. That’s obvious. Again, I go back to my point. Who were the real bigots? It’s obvious.

But why no uproar, I asked. Why no outcry?

“People feel free to say about me what they think about lots of blacks,” Thomas told me. “Because of the heterodox views I’ve taken, they have license to say it about me with impunity.”

Or put another way: In Harry Reid’s worldview, Clarence Thomas isn’t the “right” kind of black guy.

Well, he did speak that Geechee dialect as a child.

And he does have that dark, dark skin.

No, he’s really not Harry’s Reid’s type at all, is he?

P.S. ‘Course, he did use that fancy white word “heterodox.” I bet Harry Reid doesn’t even know what that means.

P.P.S. Read Jan’s entire post here.

109 Responses to “Clarence Thomas in 2008 on Harry Reid’s Insults: “Who Were the Real Bigots? It’s Obvious””

  1. In short, Reid is what used to be billed “a friend to the Negro.” Which basically meant a white politician who wasn’t actively segregationist.

    Kevin Murphy (3c3db0)

  2. “It’s like back on ER when Clooney’s character was banging Sherry Stringfield’s character…they were hetero docs. Ya think I’m an ultra or something?”-Dingy Harry Reid.

    Gazzer (e940fc)

  3. Thomas is as much a lightning rod as Palin, and for much the same reasons. He doesn’t fit the approved pattern. The hatred for Thomas is amazing. I did a book review on Amazon on his book. Some jerk of a commenter (Nothing new) objected that I said his mother lived in Charleston. Actually, his mother lived there and his grandfather took him and his brother to Savannah to raise.

    Now, why is that important ?

    It’s also worth reading some of the one-star reviews to see what leftist racism looks like.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  4. Liberals like to point out when conservatives betray their family values by engaging in affairs and similar incidents. It’s a valid and effective point. As conservatives, we should live the values we preach.

    Similarly, liberals insist on racial (etc.) tolerance and the importance of political correctness. Thus, stories like this are the liberal equivalent of conservatives who fail to live up to family values. It’s a valid and effective point, and liberals should have to live the values they preach.

    DRJ (84a0c3)

  5. Seriously… Ms Crawford should gimme a call now that she’s all single and stuff. :)

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  6. Mr. SEK doesn’t have a post about none of this. I looked on his blog. He has a hoochie what Ferguson gave a thing but about Reid, nothing.

    happyfeet (e9e587)

  7. Of all the justices, Thomas is easily the most predictable. His philosophy makes sense and is easy to apply to various cases, and you can usually tell what he’s going to do with most cases. Even Scalia isn’t as easy to predict.

    Thomas reads the foundational law and applies it. If you changed the constitution, he would apply your changes. He wouldn’t play games with it. No lengthy analysis of why we should do things differently. No discussion of European policy or 20 years for Affirmative Action to work itself out or lengthy complicated tests.

    In my world, that makes Thomas look pretty smart. I asked someone to explain their anger with him, and they said that because he obviously benefited from Affirmative Action, he owed something back (something, I guess, other than his best possible performance in applying the law, but really, support for Affirmative Action for others of “his kind”). Surely that can’t be it.

    He’s just a particularly dark skinned and non-liberal man. He’s a gifted writer who doesn’t despair that he needs to prove it in his decisions. The kind of Republican the democrats have been angry with for over a century.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  8. All right, Scott, enough of that. She’s been known to read this blog. Behave.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  9. Of all the justices, Thomas is easily the most predictable.

    Dustin, do you think that if Thomas were less predictable, he might be considered with a higher regard by his critics? (IOW, unpredictable = profound thinker, deeper, broader base of knowledge, nuanced, etc; while predictable = simple, not as learned, superficial… conservative, etc?)

    Dana (f64b7d)

  10. Absolutely, Dana!

    In Con Law, Thomas’s decisions were usually not discussed at all. We simply passed over them because they weren’t novel, even for Thomas. He applied his principle again. Hum drum.

    He’s not out to prove himself some brilliant thinker. His writings outside the Court are pretty great, btw, and inside, they can be pithy and succint (which means a lot to me), but he’s not scrambling to prove something that is very hard to prove.

    How do you get Roe v. Wade out of the Us Constitution? Well… it’s not something you can do without a tremendous amount of straining. Some people really appreciate the complicated diagram you need to get there. What constitutes something implicit to the concept of ordered liberty? Clarence Thomas honestly doesn’t give a shit… if the Constitution doesn’t mention it, it’s none of the Fed’s business.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  11. What’s the over/under line on how long it will take imdw, Myron, and/or jarjar to come in here and continue to defend Harry Reid?

    Some chump (d97978)

  12. Scott seems like a nice fellow. He should just use one of those “Conservadate” websites, or Hannity’s website.

    As for Clarence Thomas, indeed. Look at all the bile and nastiness rained down on him. But it is amusing for Harry Reid to saying anything at all about anyone “not being smart” or writing things poorly.

    Yet the lamestream media continues to paper over his nonsense.

    I like what DRJ wrote. The party of “tolerance” should be, well, tolerant.

    Back in the day, I used to say that the motto of the Left was “Do your own thing, man…so long as it is my kind of thing you do.”

    Nothing has changed. And the projection is palpable. Republicans are intolerant? Why, I have a good friend who considers himself a great progressive feminist. And he thought it was funny beyond words to post a Photoshop of Sarah Palin’s head on a hooker’s body to his FaceBook page. Now, this person is extraordinarily sensitive to insult and belittlement of women and minorities…but apparently he is not so concerned where there is an “R” associated with their names.

    The word for that is very near “hypotenuse” in the dictionary. I don’t mind policy or political differences. It is the personal level of the antipathy that is outrageous.

    Eric Blair (ddbceb)

  13. She’s been known to read this blog.

    That’s what I’m hoping. :)

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  14. or Hannity’s website.

    Jesus, why not just have me attend Single’s Night at the local Insane Asylum?

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  15. ‘Course, he did use that fancy white word “heterodox.” I bet Harry Reid doesn’t even know what that means.

    Heck, I didn’t even know what “octoroon” meant when Mark Steyn trotted it out yesterday on NRO.

    Socratease (08fac4)

  16. Jesus, why not just have me attend Single’s Night at the local Insane Asylum?

    Comment by Scott Jacobs — 1/11/2010 @ 9:45 pm

    you are: your choice between myron and imdw……

    /don;t ask, don’t tell.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  17. Red, you owe me a new monitor. I just hosed mine down with soda…

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  18. “you are: your choice between myron and imdw……”

    Scott – BOHICA. Drink heavily early. It works, trust me on this.

    It’s my digital world or Myron?

    Death is not an option?

    Triple bags minimum.

    I don’t envy you!

    daleyrocks (718861)

  19. Is crazy a bad thing, Scott? Angelina Jolie has “INSANE IN THE MEMBRANE” tattooed across her forehead in virtual ink, right?

    Eric Blair (ddbceb)

  20. oh. Mr. Patterico. Did you know our friend Dan Collins has a book what he wrote? It’s true!

    I bought it with some of the monies I was saving to escape this godforsaken and doomed dirty socialist trainwreck of a state.

    happyfeet (e9e587)

  21. happyfeet – Studio City needs you.

    As they say in Raising Arizona – you never leave a man behind.

    Or in the Greek army.

    Besides, once the train wrecks, sometimes orders can emerge from chaos.

    Apogee (e2dc9b)

  22. Eric – I could live with Angelina’s tattoos, I think.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  23. Scott – I think Helen Thomas is available.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  24. Daley, I understand your point of view. But isn’t she contaminated by proximity to Billy Bob Thorton.

    Eeeewwww.

    Eric Blair (ddbceb)

  25. Beauty’s only a lightswitch away, Scott.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  26. Studio City would be a better b=place if someone would tell the “beautification committee” to quit taking out center strips in the street and building planters full of ugly plants in them.

    the moron’s can’t drive, and they are taking lanes away????? idiots!!

    /don’t believe me, ask happyfeet.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  27. I think we’ll see sooner than we think, Apogee. What happens after April 15 should be interesting anyway. In an oh we’re doomed kind of way.

    it’s all very very real this time

    happyfeet (e9e587)

  28. rush hour Ventura blvd is miserable but I’m two blocks from work… I wish the people in charge of the plants understood color… they just don’t seem to get that idea.

    We got a lot of dead ones this summer though cause they turned the water off so much.

    happyfeet (e9e587)

  29. When ‘Bama as a candidate was asked about which Supreme Court justices he would not have nominated, he immediately named Clarence Thomas. And whereas he doesn’t hesitate to stress ideological qualifications when discussing what he wants in a SC justice, when criticizing Thomas he said, essentially, that the justice didn’t write opinions of high intellectual quality–i.e. that he wasn’t smart enough.
    I doubt ‘Bama has spent much time reading anything Justice Thomas has written.

    radegunda (319352)

  30. radegunda, I usually don’t mention race, but the person I mentioned earlier who insisted Clarence Thomas owed it to the world to support Affirmative Action, because there’s no other way (in her head) he would be successful… that person was black.

    I don’t know why, but a lot of the hostility to minority conservatives comes from the bullshit community the democrats insist they must belong to. Same for gay conservatives. There’s honestly nothing more pathetic than this racism.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  31. Comment by radegunda — 1/12/2010 @ 12:10 am

    from all i’ve seen and heard, Ear Leader hasn’t spent much time reading or comprehending much of anything, no matter who it was written by. his apparent knowledge of any subject i’ve seen him wade splash in on is, at best, Power Point deep.

    Barney Fife is the *last* person in a party of intellectual non-weights to be talking about how smart anyone is.

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  32. happy: i wish the people in charge of the boxes understood native plants……

    if the plants die, it’s more likely too much water in the small planter than not enough, but not to worry: when y’all get Universal/MTA over on the East Side, all your troubles will be over.

    the traffic and fumes will kill everything. %-)

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  33. Back on topic 😛 I think Dr Sanity hit the nail on the head with her statement:

    At least Republicans who fail to live up to their moral standards are ashamed when exposed and do the right thing (e.g., typically resign or end their public service) and their fellow Republicans encourage them to do so. Not Democrats!

    They are far too psychologically blind and refuse to accept that they have any racist, sexist, or homophobic thoughts. Their belief in their own superior and virtuous moral righteousness borders on the delusional. I maintain that Democrat souls are just as “foul” as Republican ones; but when exposed, Republicans tend not to deny the reality that abruptly and inconveniently broke into their conscious awareness. The Democrats have been drowning in their self-delusion and denial for many years now.

    Of course, that’s exactly the reason they do (and have done) so much damage to the individuals and groups they claim to champion.

    She’s a real, live head-shrinker, too.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  34. Comment by radegunda — 1/12/2010 @ 12:10 am

    — That’s right. Harry Reid’s favorite fair-skinned black candidate doesn’t think (using the coded language that he chose to utter) that Thomas is black enough, because he doesn’t come down on the side of baseless discrimination allegations & other liberal talking point issues. He actually — God forbid! — views each case based on the Constitution!!! Similar to Scalia. Heavens! I wonder if Ginsberg and Stevens ever put down their international law books long enough to re-read the COTUS?

    Icy Texan (5ea44b)

  35. “from all i’ve seen and heard, Ear Leader hasn’t spent much time reading or comprehending much of anything, no matter who it was written by.”

    Conservative legal scholar Michael McConnel was so impressed with Obama’s editing suggestions of his articles that he helped him get his gig at Chicago Law school. So here you have heard a tale of obama reading and comprehending and helping conservative legal scholarship.

    imdw (017d51)

  36. So here you have heard a tale

    Indeed I have.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  37. As Bradley knows well, there are many editors who can’t write.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  38. This is why trying to satisfy the liberal criteria for fitness, is a mugs game. They knew the quality of his work, so they tried to destroy him, or at least stigmatize him, he has bee dinged as a Scalia clone, but he has taken opinions far afield from him at times. He alone was able to see through the gambit in Hamdan, where the opposition used circular reasoning to argue that ‘unlawful enemy combatants’ deserve rights, not found in precedent.Had this been upheld, AQAP would not now have an important lieutenant in Al Shehri, released the following year

    ian cormac (cbea0c)

  39. I can’t believe the personal attacks I’m suffering on this site. Of course I know what “heterodox” means! It refers to a heterosexual Orthodox Jew. Probably a darker skinned one.

    Harry Reid (334463)

  40. @DRJ

    I like to point out to my many lefty friends that they and their fellow travelers largely do not live by their so-called “progressive” values. For instance, they all preach the value of integration, but isn’t it interesting that it is always up to the black person to move into a white neighborhood in order to achieve this goal and not the other way around? To use a local example, I ask them why they don’t live at 119th & Princeton on Chicago’s south side instead of in Glencoe or 100 E. Ontario where they typically reside?

    Also why is it that they can back every gun control measure and declare guns the evil incarnate and live in a high rise condo building with 24-hour-armed-security in a safe neighborhood? They don’t like it when I do this but it does shut them up.

    BT (74cbec)

  41. Well, let’s bring a little balance here. The fact is that Thomas and Scalia agree to a freakishly large percentage of the time. But I take it as a case of two men who are very much of like minds. And if you follow the cases closely you see that sometimes when Thomas disagrees, after a while Scalia comes around to his position. For instance, you sense on the issue of cross burning, reading different decisions, that first in RAV v. St. Paul Scalia joins the justices in saying that cross burning is speech, to a religion clause case involving the klan putting put a cross in the city square, where thomas says, more or less, “sure, the challenge here is about religion, but bluntly that not what is really going on here. This is about domination”–suggesting that the klan using crosses as symbols of intimidation might be treated differently, to the recent virginia cross burning case where the court endorsed the view that cross burning could be banned as a form of unique threat. now, you could argue that scalia felt this way all along, and the question just hadn’t been presented that way, but if you in fact suspect that scalia changed positions, its pretty easy to argue that thomas led the way.

    Likewise the apprendi mini-saga also shows where Thomas broke with Scalia only for Scalia to come around to Thomas’ position. So the two agree a lot, but Thomas at least some of the time seems to be leading Scalia, not the other way around.

    More troubling, meanwhile, is the assertion that Thomas is a terrible writer. Its crap. I have read enough of his opinions to say that is crap. Thomas is an above average supreme court justice. Certainly he was better than Douglas for he never said anything as transparently lame as “prenumbra.” And while scalia’s sharp opinions can be fun, at times it seems inappropriate to be so openly mocking of the other side.

    So where does that come from when Reid says it is poorly written? It is fair to wonder if it is racial, although ideology might be to blame, or it might explain it entirely. I will note that a lot of liberals say Thurgood Marshall wasn’t a terribly good writer either, and actually that is crap too. He is one of my favorites in terms of style, his politics aside.

    A.W. (b1db52)

  42. “For instance, they all preach the value of integration, but isn’t it interesting that it is always up to the black person to move into a white neighborhood in order to achieve this goal and not the other way around?”

    It’s almost as if progressives never engage in gentrification.

    imdw (f7b257)

  43. Reid never read any opinions. His statement is pure racism. The recent comment about Obama is indicative of Reid’s thought processes but isn’t racist per se. The Thomas remark is racist.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  44. That really is minutia, what had Obama done that given Reid the impression that Obama was articulate, the ’04 speech, that was pretty good, but that couldn’t be the standard. Jackson, for all his tripe, is much more linguistically talented. So, it is Reid’s tin ear, and superficial manner that is really on display here, like when he said
    ‘paying taxes are a duty’ yet absolves the likes of Geithner, because he didn’t do his duty.

    ian cormac (cbea0c)

  45. The fact is that Thomas and Scalia agree to a freakishly large percentage of the time.

    Someone did an analysis on which justices agree with each other. Thomas/Scalia wasn’t #1. (Going purely on memory here) I think that spot belonged to Ginsburg/Souter.

    Some chump (d97978)

  46. It seems that imdw is familiar with the collegiate practice of “wake and bake.”

    Eric Blair (8ce84a)

  47. It’s almost as if progressives never engage in gentrification.

    They don’t.

    Developers do.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  48. some chump

    well, that is not my memory but i conceed i could be faulty in that department.

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  49. You’re supposed to put the Cheerios into your mouth, imdw – not up your arse.

    Dmac (539341)

  50. @imdw:

    Gentrification is an economic process where, in effect, you buy low and sell high. And yes I know a gentleman whose politics are progressive and far to the left of mine who has made millions from this very idea. But he chooses to live in the suburbs. What I am talking about is living your ideals, regardles or maybe inspite of, the economic consquences of your choices. That you do not see from progessives in regards to where they choose to live.

    indw, the next time you are in Chicago I will be happy to take you down to 71st and Racine to show you what I mean.

    BT (74cbec)

  51. #50 BT:

    Gentrification is an economic process where

    low income residents are displaced, a fact that doesn’t seem to register with libruls.

    The process of “gentrification” doesn’t in itself change the socioeconomic status of the existing residents, it merely shunts them elsewhere.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  52. “Gentrification is an economic process where, in effect, you buy low and sell high.”

    It can also involve white people moving into minority neighborhoods.

    “indw, the next time you are in Chicago I will be happy to take you down to 71st and Racine to show you what I mean.”

    Why not take me to west philadelphia or the mission or U street area in DC or other minority communities that have become more integrated by white people moving into them, despite the fact that BT tells me that it is “always” up to the black person to move into the white neighborhood?

    imdw (795ee1)

  53. Addendum to my 51: Not that there is anything wrong with that relocation. People move, and for a variety of reasons. Ideally the incentive to move is economic, that the displaced residents profit from moving.

    Far too often, however, the incentive is civil condemnation or an eminent domain taking…with libruls crowing about how great it is to rejuvenate or invigorate a formerly run down area, without counting the human cost.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  54. that have become more integrated by white people moving into them

    No, they haven’t. Wealthier individuals have displaced poorer individuals, and integration has nothing to do with it.

    Not just a jackass, but a blind, braying jackass as well.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  55. Again, EW, there is the stink of the sophomore trustifarian about imdw. I’ll bet he has gone on “field trips” to bad neighborhoods.

    Eric Blair (3fc3d5)

  56. “No, they haven’t. Wealthier individuals have displaced poorer individuals, and integration has nothing to do with it.”

    I don’t think the purpose was integration — I doubt anybody decides where to live in order to purposefully integrate an area. But there is still white people moving into minority neighborhoods. Note that I’m not defining gentrification by this — the process is more complex and includes many other neighborhood changes. I’m only noting one phenomenon that comes with it: whites moving into minority neighborhoods.

    [note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]

    imdw (f85cb5)

  57. #55 Eric Blair:

    I’ll bet he has gone on “field trips” to bad neighborhoods.

    That describes exactly its understanding of the world.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  58. Oh, and safely home again at night to sleep in its own bed!

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  59. It can also involve white people moving into minority neighborhoods.

    True, but overwhelmingly for economic reasons not “progressive” reasons.

    And indw, just where do you live?

    BT (74cbec)

  60. “True, but overwhelmingly for economic reasons not “progressive” reasons.”

    Gentrifiers may have cultural preferences associated with progressiveness, but I guess the answer to this retort is “so what.” Does anyone move for reasons of integration, black or white?

    “That describes exactly its understanding of the world.”

    Are you so intent of denying that white people do move into minority neighborhoods that you have to take it to this? Even BT acknowledges that his “always” was wrong.

    imdw (14c14e)

  61. imdw:

    Please don’t put words in my mouth. And again what sort of neighborhood do you live in?

    BT (74cbec)

  62. “And indw, just where do you live?”

    In a minority majority urban neighborhood.

    imdw (5f60be)

  63. imdw:

    I’m sorry that is too cute. Somehow I don’t believe you. Anyway as they said on the CB radios years ago before you were born, “It’s been great modulatin’ with ya.” Peace out.

    BT (74cbec)

  64. “I’m sorry that is too cute. Somehow I don’t believe you”

    That’s a surprise. Me, I don’t even see why it matters where I live.

    imdw (017d51)

  65. indw, the next time you are in Chicago I will be happy to take you down to 71st and Racine to show you what I mean.

    I’d rather take it to 95th and Stoney Island, the former home of the Blackstone Rangers (or maybe it’s 105th and Stoney). Perhaps we could have it meet with Jeff Forte’s best homies – most of my friends from college grew up in that area, and have many tales to tell of “gentrification” efforts in their former neighborhoods.

    Dmac (539341)

  66. Once again, imdw deflects from the main post. Instead of talking about Reid’s bigotry, he’s pointing everyone to a completely different subject.

    Some chump (d97978)

  67. “That’s a surprise. Me, I don’t even see why it matters where I live.”

    As to EW’s point, I’ll add that i don’t really take many “field trips,” or consider where I live to be a “bad neighborhood,” but I do consider myself safe at home in my own bed.

    imdw (8f8ead)

  68. Once again, imdw deflects from the main post. Instead of talking about Reid’s bigotry, he’s pointing everyone to a completely different subject.

    Comment by Some chump

    Indeed. It’s really cute seeing how it’s impossible for him to look at people without putting them in their race-box. Truly a Reid Sharpton protege.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  69. “Indeed. It’s really cute seeing how it’s impossible for him to look at people without putting them in their race-box”

    Right because here I am advancing the simple idea that white people move into minority neighborhoods and this gets BT to disbelieve where I live and EW to also decide where I live and how I travel. Because of the race box.

    imdw (e66d8d)

  70. “Why not take me to west philadelphia”

    Oh please “West Philadelphia” is not integrated. There is a small ring around the Ivy enclave of the University of Pennsylvania where you find white students and white faculty and they do not live on integrated blocks but on blocks that pushed out mostly black families. Beyond the “safe zone” for the Ivy leaguers you will not find a white face.

    SPC Jack Klompus (c1922b)

  71. “..I don’t even see why it matters where I live…”

    It matters the same way your concern with Sarah Palin’s salary matters.

    See, you hate it when people do to you what you try to do to others.

    Which is one definition of a troll, of course.

    Fact, is Sarah Palin’s salary is of no concern to you. But when you sniff and try to claim high authority about living in “minority areas,” why, yes, where you live is relevant.

    Because you are a dishonest hypocrite, as has been clear for some time.

    Eric Blair (ddbceb)

  72. Mr. Klompus:

    Thank you for revealing our little troll’s student origins:

    “There is a small ring around the Ivy enclave of the University of Pennsylvania where you find white students and white faculty and they do not live on integrated blocks but on blocks that pushed out mostly black families”

    As I and others thought. No worries. Classes will start soon, and Mr. Wake and Bake will need to put down the bong and, well, get to work.

    Eric Blair (ddbceb)

  73. you have to take it to this?

    I don’t have to take shit anywhere.

    Being a “white people” that’s lived in minority neighborhoods, it wasn’t because of some overarching goal to integrate them.

    the simple idea that white people move into minority neighborhoods

    Oops, got my flags pulled so time to change the game!! I never said that white people don’t move to minority neighborhoods, I said they don’t move their because of misguided liberal do-gooder notions.

    And I really don’t care where you live or travel, but it’s apparent that your experiences so far haven’t made it through your preconceptions and into a rational worldview. Because of the race box that you are using.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  74. Hmph. That possessive is supposed to be a locational above.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  75. And of course, I am shocked… shocked!!!! that imdw can’t take even the slightest scrutiny without freaking out, while he loves to dish out ridiculously hostile lies about others. Not to be boorish, but he did admit knowing his accusation of child rape and murder was completely untrue, though justified for partisan purposes.

    You’re looking at one of the most thin skinned and hostile trolls the internet has ever seen.

    He’ll do whatever he can to avoid the fact that Reid called Clarence Thomas a terrible Supreme Court Justice, but Reid had never actually read Thomas’s work. All Reid has ever thought about blacks comes out when he stereotypes conservative blacks as stupid and undeserving.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  76. Most of the Penn students go “four and out” in “West Philly” better known as University City in that particular area. You’ve got the usual bo-ho crowd you find in any college neighborhood, some slacker types living off the trust funds, and very few permanent residents that are not well-to-do, white, and associated with the university. The pampered little wannabe urbanites wouldn’t last a minute in an area like 60th and Vine where they’d be eaten for lunch.

    SPC Jack Klompus (c1922b)

  77. “But when you sniff and try to claim high authority about living in “minority areas,” why, yes, where you live is relevant.”

    But one can have knowledge about the racial make up of communities without actually living in them. Specially if this knowledge is of incredibly uncontroversial and simple facts such as “white people move into minority neighborhoods.” That’s my point.

    “Oh please “West Philadelphia” is not integrated”

    Yeah it just has black and white people living in it, though not as uniformly as some would like. But like other places, are there not boundaries, and do they not move as people of different races move in and out? That’s my point in pointing to gentrification — whites do move into majority minority neighborhoods, and at different scales and edges, whether these please your definition of “integrated” or not. Pick other edge or changing neighborhoods and you’ll find the same.

    imdw (1d5895)

  78. Yeah the white people in University City, one small well-to-do pocket of “West Philadelphia”, a teeming geographic swath of that encompasses many neighborhoods, are almost 100% transient white people affiliated with an affluent Ivy League university. Outside of this small enclave, the rest of West Philly is almost 100% black, and the lines between the two are drawn rather starkly.

    SPC Jack Klompus (c1922b)

  79. That’s my point.

    You don’t have a point. You had a nub, but even that’s been whittled off.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  80. So many hipster types in Philly name drop “West Philly” for where they live, but everyone who knows the city knows immediately the radius of streets within which this posturing white kid safely resides. It really doesn’t count as white people moving into a black neighborhood when it’s typically a little princess getting an off campus apartment in an area where they can make a phone call and have the “Penn Shuttle” take them door to door.

    SPC Jack Klompus (c1922b)

  81. “Outside of this small enclave, the rest of West Philly is almost 100% black, and the lines between the two are drawn rather starkly.”

    Have the lines ever moved? Because if they have… that’s because white people moved into a black area.

    imdw (05d41e)

  82. Sure if you count absentee property owners who take houses, divide them up into eight apartments and rent them out at bloated prices to well-to-do college students instead of having them remain the property of working class families. Or you could have the university itself bulldoze neighborhoods like it did in the 70’s to make room for a westward expansion. And then when the semester ends daddy’s little trust fund baby moves back to Long Island and the next wave of Penn kids takes over and rents the apartment. It’s been a long running cycle.

    SPC Jack Klompus (c1922b)

  83. But one can have knowledge about the racial make up of communities without actually living in them.

    So imdw admits to not living in a minority neighborhood. Just as I suspected!!!!

    See, two can play at this game imdw.

    BT (74cbec)

  84. “So imdw admits to not living in a minority neighborhood. Just as I suspected!!!!”

    Not in all of them, no.

    “Sure”

    See, Jack knows west philly, and we don’t need to ask when the last time he was in west philly was. He’s familiar with recent white homeowners in the area, establishments catering to multiethnic customers, and how the block-by-block racial makeup has changed over the last few decades. And if he’s not, he can still find out about without living there.

    imdw (be85b6)

  85. Been all across Philly from N-S-E-W including a number in U City as a Penn student. And yes the white, Penn affiliated homeowners have been and always will be there, in their little enclave surrounded by the transient white students. So recently some white property owners who catered mainly to renting students decide to sell to some other white people who work for Penn is granted some small form of gentrification. When established black neighborhoods in West Philadelphia start to see prospective homeowners shopping around then I might be impressed, but the occasional demographic fluctuations in a now centuries old university neighborhood hardly stands as an prime example of gentrification.

    SPC Jack Klompus (c1922b)

  86. Sounds like that area around the U in West Philly is a classic case of “gentrification”, where the well-to-do from academia have pushed the lower economic classes further away from the center, creating their own little pocket of “diversity”.

    BTW, my take is that imdw lives in either Jersey, or Long Island; for him, a minority neighborhood is probably one with a lot of Italians.

    AD - RtR/OS! (049607)

  87. Yeah the diversity in that neighborhood means some are undergrads, some are med students, and some are faculty. There’s actually a fairly large Ethiopian and Eritrean community in that area with the tasty restaurants to go along. And you do get a few run down places that wannabe anarcho-poseur types have squatted in, renamed The ______ Space (fill in with lame pseudo-dissident term), and put on shows featuring really really bad hardcore/punk bands.

    SPC Jack Klompus (c1922b)

  88. “BTW, my take is that imdw lives in either Jersey, or Long Island; for him, a minority neighborhood is probably one with a lot of Italians.”

    And I do love MTV’s the Jersey Shore!

    imdw (de7003)

  89. […] as an incompetent liar while the surge was starting up in Iraq, and (d) aspersions cast upon the intelligence of Clarence Thomas. And that’s the tip of the iceberg. He’s a cheap, nasty demagogue […]

    Hot Air » Blog Archive » Inevitable: Nevada Senate race now rated “lean takeover” (e2f069)

  90. Isn’t the purpose of gentrification to drive out the undesirables and replace them with rich yuppies? Are we calling that progressive now?

    EBJ (2fd7f7)

  91. I guess we are. If the “progresives” of the Bay Area can continue to keep new residences from being built in their areas – keeping their real estate values high and keeping the riff raff out – then it’s all progresive, all good.

    EBJ (2fd7f7)

  92. imdw moved from UCLA to Philly?

    daleyrocks (718861)

  93. For instance, they all preach the value of integration, but isn’t it interesting that it is always up to the black person to move into a white neighborhood in order to achieve this goal and not the other way around?

    I live in an apartment building in a predominantly hispanic neighborhood; the other dwellers of the building are racially mixed (including asians, hispanics, blacks, and whites). It does not have armed security.

    Nor do most of the apartment buildings i’m familiar with in San Francisco proper. Sure, some of the really high end expensive yuppie buildings do … but most people don’t live in those.

    If the “progresives” of the Bay Area can continue to keep new residences from being built in their areas – keeping their real estate values high and keeping the riff raff out – then it’s all progresive, all good.

    I find this comment odd, mostly because my experience of the ‘progressive’ community in the bay area is generally of renters, most of whom are probably considered riff-raff by your definition. :)

    That said: I tend to vote in favor of new housing developments; higher density is better than sprawl. But I acknowledge being a minority voice on this issue.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  94. #93 aphrael:

    But I acknowledge being a minority voice on this issue.

    aphrael, I think that there is a psychological component that’s often overlooked: some people are comfortable in a highly dense living arrangement, some cannot tolerate it at all; but most people fall someplace in between.

    To me, this is a classic example of what a market is most capable of deciding, versus what a planning or zoning committee might decide. The result of allowing a market free to reign may not be as aesthetically pleasing as a defined or rigorously planned community~but the residents are happy with the result, or they move. (There is also an argument to be made that a planning/zoning committee approach is also a market result: that the committee arises in the first place because of the demands in a market, but most often the committee arises in order to place constraints on a market to protect entrenched interests.)

    I drove by a new construction house today: one in a small community. Reasonably nice house, fairly nice community…but the chosen lot has absolutely no redeeming features or value that I can discern. Its a hillside lot at the bottom of the steep hill, bounded on the bottom by an extremely busy roadway that the house just barely fits on. IOW, it seems nonsensical to build a house just there, when lots in the area are damn near free for the taking.

    But not everyone’s needs or desires are the same, nor are they quantifiable in such a way that a committee could use them to reach an optimum result in every case.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  95. “…But one can have knowledge about the racial make up of communities without actually living in them. Specially if this knowledge is of incredibly uncontroversial and simple facts such as “white people move into minority neighborhoods.” That’s my point…”

    Touchy, aren’t you? After all your concerns about the details of the lives of others?

    Fact is, you are just a troll. Best guess: college student living off Daddy’s money, and that fact irritates you. As I have said before, you have the vulgarity, the callow overconfidence, and the hypocrisy down pat.

    Oh…and “…one can have knowledge…” Percy Dovetonsils. But you don’t. All you have is bile and sneers and partisan dishonesty.

    And did I mention that you routinely misrepresent what other say or write? Oh, you call it paraphrasing. That’s right.

    Just. Another. Troll.

    Eric Blair (ddbceb)

  96. “Fact is, you are just a troll. Best guess: college student living off Daddy’s money, and that fact irritates you.”

    Ok so now I’m not in high school and I don’t work a minimum wage food service job. Got it. But do I still live in a majority minority urban neighborhood?

    imdw (8f8ead)

  97. But do I still live in a majority minority urban neighborhood?

    I dunno, and I don’t care.

    But only a buffoonish boor would describe their surroundings in such a way.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  98. Let me paraphrase you, imdw, based on what you just wrote:

    You are a high school dropout and are unemployed.

    See? I can do precisely the same kind of irritating and dishonest stuff you do.

    Like I said originally, you have a long, long history of vulgar dishonesty. If you want people to take you seriously, you have much ground to regain. Of course, that will take work and courtesy, both of which you have amply proved do not interest you.

    Eric Blair (ddbceb)

  99. I wasn’t all that impressed with Palin’s recent interview on O’Reilly, but one part struck a chord with me and most good folks. It’s not American to think of people by race, or as minorities, or look at skin color as relevant to qualifications for jobs or neighborhoods.

    EW1(SG) calls it boorish to think of a place as majority minority. That’s exactly right. You’d have to be a shitty human being to earnestly think like that.

    Clarence Thomas says it’s obvious who the real bigots are. It’s only obvious to the people who aren’t bigots. To the classic democrats like Reid, Al Gore Sr., IMDW, Jar Jar, etc, it’s not possible to look at someone as an individual. They are in some interest group that has to vie against other groups. Hate hate hate all the way to the ballot box. Fear of other groups drives people to place their trust in a ruling class of democrats. We’ve seen how that works out for the sorts of places imdw must be referring to.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  100. “You are a high school dropout and are unemployed.”

    Ok so not in college, not on minimum wage. Am I collecting unemployment? Or do I have a union pension or something?

    imdw (2d0308)

  101. 80.So many hipster types in Philly name drop “West Philly” for where they live, but everyone who knows the city knows immediately the radius of streets within which this posturing white kid safely resides. Jack

    I had friends once who confided that they would say they lived in “University City” vs “West Philly” depending on who they were talking to. Though, in their situation they actually were more in West Philly (~47th and Market) than in Univ. City. They would say “Univ. City” to folks they were afraid would look at them funny if they said “West Philly”.

    This is an interesting topic. First, whites get accused of “white flight” and leaving the city to rot, especially “white Christians because 10 am on Sun is the most segregated time of the week”. Then, if anyone moves into the neighborhood from outside who is white, they get accused of ruining things by contributing to gentrification.

    Of course that is a generaliztaion from one point of view, individual cases subject to being different.

    We moved into the “Badlands” in N. Philly in the mid-80’s. At the turn of the century (1900) the area was a bustle of industry, the hub of the textile industry on the East Coast. Houses bordering a square block of park were largish and homes of professionals in the area, the side streets had small “trinities” for the factory workers.

    Time moves on, the industry leaves. The housing stock is already a little old. Jobs are not nearby, in general. Those who have an opportunity to move elsewhere to get a job and better housing do so, white, black, purple, and all shades in between. What is left is yet older housing stock largely owned or rented by people who don’t have resources to keep things up, let alone “spruce things up”.

    More time moves on. Those with resources, including the resources of working, getting an education, and staying out of trouble, look to better their situation and move out, if not for themselves, then for their children. Eventually the housing stock is poor enough and the prices drop low enough that only the poorest live there, either because they can’t make life work any better, or because they are the newcomers starting on the bottom rung, be they from the south of the US, further south. or across oceans.

    Eventually things are so bad they get abandoned. Nobody wants to live in them the way they are, and no one there has the resources to rebuild/restore. Then you get new people filtering in at the edges, near more affluent areas that are too pricey for some who are young, not yet established, and willing to live on the edge, being in their 20’s and no kids. At some point the tipping point is reached and the area becomes desirable, so much so that current homeowners would no longer be able to buy their house at the current market value.

    This happens independent of the color of the skin. Are there at times “big developers” (including city officials) who are more actively hostile in profiting from the changes? By all means. Is all “gentrification” of a neighborhood the result of pre-planned devious schemes? By no means.

    MD in Philly (d4668b)

  102. imdw is immune to irony. They are saying your standards are ridiculous and your reasoning is ridiculous. Of course it isn’t an effective way to characterize you… your absurd worldview isn’t useful beyond demagoguery.

    Which is no skin off my nose. This kind of polarization is going to get so much worse before it gets better, and we need to climatize.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  103. > P.S. ‘Course, he did use that fancy white word “heterodox.”

    If a gay man has a trophy wife as a cover, is she a heterodoxie?

    O Bloody Hell (79d71d)

  104. Dustin, that is what I have been trying to prove: this character isn’t as smart as he or she thinks.

    But then, all the troll does is try to play troll games.

    I wouldn’t say that imdw is immune to irony. I would say that there isn’t a picogram of ferritin anywhere near the person.

    Eric Blair (ddbceb)

  105. #101 MD in Philly:

    Is all “gentrification” of a neighborhood the result of pre-planned devious schemes? By no means.

    Cities, and more generally communities, have lifecycles all their own. Circumstances change, and people move according to their own particular circumstance.

    There need be nothing sinister about it; although there can be foul play, particularly when powerful interests in a community break social mores in order to profit at the expense of the weak.

    Which is one of the reasons why the wealthy, powerful, and influential dead white guys that wrote the Constitution put in clauses to protect individual liberties and rights…to grant equal protections to the weak and the powerful.

    EW1(SG) (edc268)

  106. But do I still live in a majority minority urban neighborhood?

    Actually, you’re just a ginormous pustule on the body politic – that’s been made abundantly clear, so wear that tinfoil hat proudly from now on.

    Dmac (539341)

  107. I bet Harry Reid doesn’t even know what that means.

    I refuse to take that bet.

    Hoystory (a394a8)

  108. So Judge Clarence Thomas is heterodoxist. Call out the EEOC. /koolaid

    eaglewingz08 (1e4d33)

  109. […] other story is that Reid has made these statements before, and no one batted an eyelid. The target however, was […]

    Patterico on Harry Reid « Something should go here, maybe later. (b4da60)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.5537 secs.