Patterico's Pontifications

12/15/2009

Jeff Goldstein: Arguing “On Point” — With Threats of Violence

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:32 pm

Scott Jacobs writes to highlight this comment by Jeff Goldstein where he says:

I have only, and will continue only, to argue on point.

We have already seen one of his “on point” arguments:

I READILY ADMIT TO THREATENING TO BEAT CERTAIN PEOPLE’S ASSES. And you know what? I’d still do it to most of them if we ever met up. So?

And this “on point” argument:

Scott Jacobs is one of those guys I mentioned that if I ever met him in person, I’d leave him in a heap, mewling like a baby pussy.

But had you seen this “on point” argument?

Hey, listen: Doc Weasel is a cover band. The guy who runs their site, Kenny, is a 140lb unpaid roadie and all around lackey living at home with mom, posting amateur porn and tugging at his own little doc weasel. If I ever run into him, I’ll break him like a toothpick.

Or this one?

Note that I said if I ever ran across some of these people, I’d have no problem — and feel no guilt — about snapping their ACL.

(That’s a ligament in the knee.) Another:

As I said earlier, why the fuck should I be embarrassed about telling people who’ve said some vile things to me that I’d be happy to meet up with them in person, where I’d give them the opportunity to say those same vile things directly to my face. Just before I broke their fucking ankles?

One more “on point” argument:

I’ve probably gotten into it with about a half dozen people over the years, some of whom if I ran into them in the street I would beat their ass without hesitation.

Just trying to stay on point.

With Goldstein, it’s all about the ideas. And the issues. And making idle Internet threats to beat up people who say things he doesn’t like.

Thanks to Scott.

79 Responses to “Jeff Goldstein: Arguing “On Point” — With Threats of Violence”

  1. But can you prove he intended to follow through with these threats? If not, it’s Q. to the E. to the D. (Or something, as I never quite follow what besides the blindingly obvious has been demonstrated).

    SEK (9e7eee)

  2. I hasten to add: just because Goldstein has made psychopathic threats of violence once in his life twice in his life three times at most OK, four times countless times . . . doesn’t mean he is INHERENTLY a violent psychopath.

    Although I’m sure many of his linguistic defenders will disagree, on principle.

    Patterico (64318f)

  3. Snark FAIL with “…as I never quite follow what besides the blindingly obvious has been demonstrated…

    Freud lives.

    Eric Blair (ddbceb)

  4. But, when he said those things, what was his intention?

    Fritz (771258)

  5. Just because Goldstein has made violent threats, I am not saying he is a violent man. I am definitely not calling him a violent man. I am just not sure. He kind of rolls funny and inconsistently I think and forgets things he’s said, but he’s all about principles. He’ll tell you so himself.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  6. Patrick:

    Although I’m sure many of his linguistic defenders will disagree, on principle.

    That’s because they know when he wants to mean it and when he only says it. You’ll need to defer to their judgments on such matters in the future, alright? Now that we have our Semantic God King enthroned…

    Eric:

    Freud lives.

    I know that, but you don’t even need Freud to get there. Aristotle will suffice:

    A responsible reader will take that statement, weigh the history of race relations in America against a rhetorical appeal to a “universal instinct for automatic sympathy for the underdog,” and infer that Faulkner is either an idiot (and therefore lacks ethos in the strong Aristotelian sense of not providing within a single utterance evidence of intellectual and moral competence) or that he is being disingenuous (and therefore lacks ethos in the strong Aristotelian sense of not providing within a single utterance evidence of intellectual and moral competence). Any attempt on Faulkner’s part to “govern the scene of utterance [and] enforce communication” would not merely be, to use Goldstein’s term of art, totaliterian—it would be tyrannical.

    SEK (9e7eee)

  7. But can you prove he intended to follow through with these threats?

    I don’t know the intent of the author or utterer, and feel it is my job as a receiver of the communication to try to decode that intent — which I hasten to add that the intent and the message are irrevocably tied together — and that is why, when I see the marks (phrases threatening to beat people’s asses), I do not want to treat them as mere signifiers — or, worse, to attach to them my own signifieds — in essence, writing our own text . . . meaning that, were I (as in the Bennett and Snow examples) to attribute the text I wrote to that author, I would be, we must agree, not only wrongheaded, but pernicious: because we must privilege the utter’s INTENT to beat others’ asses, rather than privileging our own, which is to excuse his psychotic ramblings while attributing our innocuous intent to the writer/utterer.

    I have written about these matters since 2002, and have been clear in every instance.

    Patterico (64318f)

  8. Patterico – I’ll bet those statements were all gags or something. That’s gotta be it. I’m gonna start laughing now. brb.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  9. We need an abbreviation for all the folks who are going to ignore that this is a development of a discussion and insist that this be dropped altogether because they hate the discussion. Both of you are rock stars! One is the kind that will kill you and is attempting to “win”. I hope you both can hug (better do that in a public place).

    I know Fritz thinks this is all bluster. Man, I sure as hell hope so. I do not have the ability to put myself into this Jeff G mindset (and as you can all tell, I’m kinda boorish and unfunny). But his violent threats indicate a relishing of causing suffering… an attention to detail that show me that he’s attempting to live that fantasy of really hurting someone for the sin of disagreement.

    As I said before, I think he’s got a serious mental problem and must be terrible to be around. People who are this vicious in thought are, at best, in serious need. I hope this is because he’s on the mend from a drug addiction or something.

    Would the white house let this man on their grounds for a tour, and then mistakenly let him have lunch with our president? I mean, the president might make a comment about saving money that is not understood.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  10. Cut’n Paste Joe ought to be cutting and pasting right about now if he is on watch duty. Fetch, Joe, fetch.

    daleyrocks (718861)

  11. If it takes more than an hour, we’re cutting Joe’s pay.

    Just kidding! Joe would never take money for that valuable service her performs.

    He does it for the personal satisfaction of egging people on to fight.

    How I miss him! And the psychopath too!

    Patterico (64318f)

  12. Let me reiterate: Jeff Goldstein is an internet tough guy. It’s all bluster. I kid you not, he probably cackles with glee every time he writes something like that.

    It’s a classic overcompensation tactic. It’s otherwise meaningless.

    Fritz (771258)

  13. The writings of Aristotle are used by many people, often in ways that would no doubt make the old aristocrat shake his head. But this comes to mind:

    “Some men are just as sure of the truth of their opinions as are others of what they know. “

    It applies to most of politics. And in particular as an antidote to a sense of arrogance and certitude.

    Eric Blair (ddbceb)

  14. Notice in all JeffG’s postings regarding violence the wiggle “if ever”. You could give him a time, you could give him a place, and you could give him bus fare, but it would never meet the conditions of “if ever”.

    Fritz (771258)

  15. I READILY ADMIT TO THREATENING TO BEAT CERTAIN PEOPLE’S ASSES. And you know what? I’d still do it to most of them if we ever met up. So


    Man…you just got to love those keyboard mercenaries.

    Reminds me of the guy that talks himself into a fight than looks around for people to “hold me back!!”.

    Threatening to beat people up over the Internet…
    ………what a joke.

    Baxter Greene (af5030)

  16. JG writes “I have only, and will continue only, to argue on point.” In English, we might write “I have only argued, and will continue only to argue, on point.” Or perhaps best: “I have argued, and will continue to argue, only on point.” The guy has such high regard for his own writing skills, but I’ve never understood why.

    gp (f596a1)

  17. The hilarious thing about Jeff going off on “Kenny” is that it was an elaborate goof we played on him when he was trying to find out who ran the site so he could attack them, either physically, or through their work, family, however he could. He did manage to contact one of our bloggers and we concocted a life-story and description of an non-existent person for him to beat up, along with instructions on how to find the guy, in the heart of darkest Tampa. Dunno if Jeff ever showed up there to “snap him like a toothpick”- it was over some pretty harsh things “kenny” had to say about JG after the whinging he did over PJMedia and Roger Simon, who is a friend of ours.

    Jeff GoldKaratechop fell for it hook, line and sinker and stopped harassing us, although we never stopped ragging on him on the blog (search for him or protein wisdom to find our take-downs).

    I don’t think any of us have been in a physical altercation since junior high and we don’t plan on rolling around in the dirt with Jeff GoldNunchucks anytime soon. Seems pretty juvenile. Who said the line about the first man who raises his fist has run out of ideas?

    The “Kenny” incident was a pretty funny pwnage of Jeffy GoldRoundhousekick

    docweasel (b970ac)

  18. That’s funny. I didn’t know that.

    Patterico (64318f)

  19. Om My God. they killed Kenny.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  20. Who said the line about the first man who raises his fist has run out of ideas?

    I dunno, but I’ve always been a fan of “Never be afraid to be the first to resort to violence” and “If violence isn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it”.

    But that’s just me. :)

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  21. Comment by docweasel — 12/15/2009 @ 9:34 pm

    I can’t seem to find these posts… Could you link them for us, pretty please? I wish to have teh lolz. :)

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  22. Threatening to beat people up over the Internet…

    — “That’s my Internet.”
    “No, it’s mine. I saw it first! Mom!!!”

    Icy Texan (fa42ba)

  23. #

    Om My God. they killed Kenny.

    Comment by Dustin — 12/15/2009 @ 9:36 pm


    Heh!!!

    Baxter Greene (af5030)

  24. Could it be true?

    Comment by Jeff G. on 1/31 @ 4:52 pm #

    Hey, listen: Doc Weasel is a cover band. The guy who runs their site, Kenny, is a 140lb unpaid roadie and all around lackey living at home with mom, posting amateur porn and tugging at his own little doc weasel. If I ever run into him, I’ll break him like a toothpick. Beyond that, I have no desire to hear what he has to say.

    Dan is still in touch with him. They’re friends.

    Don’t quite know what to make of that.

    Fritz (771258)

  25. Note the construction, “If I ever”. Ever becomes never because it’s all bluster.

    Fritz (771258)

  26. Scott,
    last fight I was in (which I more or less lost) was over 10 years ago when a guy who was bugging me all night for reading a book at his girlfriends bar flicked a cigarette at me and called me “bitch” when I walked outside to go home.
    His friends thought that was funny.
    Me, not so much.
    So when this happened… http://site2.mjeol.com/pdf/santa-barbara-county/news-briefs-from-california-s-central-coast-civil-trial-against-sbsd.pdf

    Now that is funny. Pepper spray, broken ribs and 147 batons strikes over 8 minutes followed by turning a 6 months County sentence into 4 years up in San Luis Opisbo?
    Beautiful.

    Only downside is the City settled his lawsuit for attorneys fees

    SteveG (ece883)

  27. I have a cousin named Jeff. He was a wimp. Before my daughter started eating for two, she prolly could’ve beaten me up. And that Jeff G has the musculo-facial structure and scraggly machismo facial hair of someone this old has-been could handle while eating a cup-o-soup. I have no doubt Scott Jacobs could put his hand on Jeff G’s head and let Jeff G swing away and the fight would be pretty much over at that point.

    Keyboard Kombat is always much easier to do than the real deal. And the first person to enter Keyboard Kombat is usually the first person to run away, screaming like a girl, when the real deal comes down. That, and the whole e-penor thing that mindless fools trot out when intellectually whomped.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  28. […] death threats” every time anyone cracked a joke about him meeting some SouthParkian demise but Patterico is giving him a good run for his money. [There used to be a time when men would like, get in fights […]

    Bill Ryan’s Other Blog » Strange Days Indeed (8598c9)

  29. Me I like Jeff fine. So, that’s counterpoint. Here’s a 90s dance song you heard a kajillion times and never knew who it was.

    happyfeet (2c63dd)

  30. John, it is darn pathetic to say “oh yeah! well, I’m going to hurt you!” (or something more graphic like suck out your bones or whatever passes for Jeffspeak).

    Of course someone wouldn’t think this is a scary proposition over the internet unless it’s something that scares the hell out of them. In other words, someone who has been bullied and wants to feel that power from the other end. Of course, we all know Jeff’s been bullied over the internet, but I think he’s also been physically hurt and feels emasculated.

    however silly it is to psychoanalyze psychos, it’s hard not to feel sorry for someone so hopelessly unable to make his point, that Scott Jacobs or Patterico were wrong about some opinion, justified by the fact that Jeff knows karate.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  31. or

    Obispo

    SteveG (ece883)

  32. Look, I’m conflicted because I have great respect for Patterico and because in the past, I’ve considered Jeff G. a friend. But I’ve got two points.

    The first is that the Deb Frisch situation was a real one and I don’t think anyone should make fun of Jeff G. regarding it. I don’t think its an appropriate topic for ridicule of Jeff G.

    The second is that I’ve spent time in person with Jeff and believe me, Jeff G is not going to be kicking anyone’s ass. That’s an appropriate topic to ridicule Jeff G. about.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  33. “The first is that the Deb Frisch situation was a real one and I don’t think anyone should make fun of Jeff G. regarding it. I don’t think its an appropriate topic for ridicule of Jeff G.”

    I agree completely. If someone is interpreting my comment that way, I apologize for not being more clear.

    I wasn’t ridiculing this person for that, but he needs some kind of help.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  34. Also, and since he knows the situation is as serious as SPQR says, and he’s strong enough to shoot a rifle or whatever, I think he should know damn well not to threaten people like that.

    I mean, he deserves sympathy for the threats he dealt with… because it’s really shitty to get threats like that.

    I’m glad a few people have noted that he’s weak and small. That’s good news, because it shows Fritz is probably right. Still, not everyone knows that. Threats aren’t just bad when they are successfully carried out.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  35. Me I like Jeff fine. So, that’s counterpoint.

    Counterpoint?

    Counterpoint??

    Seriously? You consider your “liking him just fine” to be a counter point to the fact that he threatened me? That he makes a habit of it?

    It’s official. You’re a feckless moron.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  36. Dustin, cool. Everything else is fair game.

    And how.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  37. Underestimating opponents is how 110lbs kids find a way to sink a Phillips screwdriver into your lung

    SteveG (ece883)

  38. Although I’m sure many of his linguistic defenders will disagree, on principle.

    Comment by Patterico — 12/15/2009 @ 8:38 pm

    I don’t know about this linguistic battle, but the word “racism” is definitely “magic word” weasel word linguistics. It is the basis for all criminal/liberal gains through white guiltification self-hatred conditioning.

    j curtis (5126e4)

  39. Mr Jacobs, Jeff G is a tool for making seemingly-endless threats of violence against people over the intartubes. Footsie has been a fool on a couple occasions, this one included. But 6 times out of 10, footsie’s perspective is an addition rather than a detraction.

    I won’t support Jeff G at all. I’ve almost totally quit viewing PW (once every 6 weeks now, maybe). But I’m not gonna throw footsie to the dogs just because he’s an idiot this time (and that other, very recent time).

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  40. I just thought I would offer a different point of view cause of the perspective of Mr. Goldstein presented here is somewhat one-dimensional. Like he’s an ogre. That’s not my experience with him.

    happyfeet (2c63dd)

  41. It certainly is a problem, J Curtis. I think the solution to that is in-depth and frank discussion of how it works. In particular, identifying what’s racism really helps show that racism today is often directed against whites.

    Tiger Woods can’t be with white women? Well, that’s sick. Did anyone see that story about how the vast majority of US born hispanics think of themselves as Mexicans (or whatever origin country) or their race first and Americans second? What makes America great is largely that we’re a people of a constitution, not a people of a race. I hope I shouldn’t say ‘used to mak America great’.

    When people bash America as inferior to Europe, that’s part of the reason I get so irritated. Germans, Swedes, Anglos all have a racial definition. Race is the opposite of what America is all about, individuality.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  42. “I just thought I would offer a different point of view cause of the perspective of Mr. Goldstein presented here is somewhat one-dimensional. Like he’s an ogre. That’s not my experience with him.

    Comment by happyfeet ”

    Well, I get where you’re coming from with that.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  43. That’s not my experience with him.

    Oh. So as long as he doesn’t do it too often, that’s just fine. Can’t have him upsetting you now, can we.

    He threatened me, and you said jack shit about it, save to defend his pansy-ass. You point me to a comment you made that shows otherwise, where you tell him what he did was – at the least – inappropriate, and I’ll freely admit I was mistaken.

    I’m sorry if I’m not inclined to give the man much benefit of the doubt or, God forbid, suggest that he some sort of ogre.

    I guess my tolerance for certain levels of “fuckwit” just ain’t what it used to be.

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  44. […] he wants to simply carry on with his little pattern of Internet threats to break the bones of people who mock him, I guess he can do that too. It’s a question of what he considers to be “on […]

    Patterico's Pontifications » Jeff Goldstein Was Wrong to Defend David Letterman for Joking About the Statutory Rape of Willow Palin (e4ab32)

  45. Let’s see if Jeff is willing to get the linguistic discussion back on track. I have offered to start with what I think is a fairly effective criticism of his language theories, as applied to his defense of David Letterman when Letterman mocked 14-year-old Willow Palin.

    Let’s get this discussion back on a higher plane. My argument is here.

    Patterico (64318f)

  46. When did it becomes news that Mexican’s think of themselves as Mexican?
    Who knew?
    That’s a damn proud group of people and after maybe three generations they might begin to turn into Americans first… I dunno when the turning point is where they can root for the USA v. Mexico in soccer though.
    I read a story about a kid who is on one of the USA U-17’s (or 18’s 19’s ) whose Mexican grandfather was appalled

    SteveG (ece883)

  47. I’m in the minority, Dustin. (Imagine a red-headed, red-bearded father of a red-headed daughter ever claiming to be in the minority when “race” is in the picture.) While I’m a 7th generation (or beyond) US citizen when following the blood-lines in the right fashion (am I a breed of animal now?), I am also descendant from Latin Americans and from American Indians (don’t call them Native Americans around me). I need no hyphen in my nationality. My daughter needs no hyphen in her nationality. And when her son is born and grows up, if she and I have anything to do with it, the more-mutt-than-the-two-of-us will need no hyphen in his nationality either. And, yes, that means … he’s decendent from Romans and citizens of the US since the 1700s. (Oh, and they’re permanently tanned, too.)

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  48. most of the above is, IMHO, horseshit.

    in real life, you don’t worry about intentions, you worry about capabilities, just as you do in uniform. you always honor the threat, because you have to, or you pay the price. there is a reason this is military doctrine.

    you lock your doors & windows before you leave the house or your car because someone may want to break in. its not like you can look up and down the block and say, “well, i don’t see any burglars, so i can leave the door open for the cats/dogs/kids today…

    same same with this asshat: he may just be well on his way to threatening himself to death, with all the bullshit macho crap he spews to everyone,but i wouldn’t take that chance, no more than i would suddenly decide that a warm summer evening is a good time for me & my wife to walk through VNE to examine all the murals painted there, without expecting a bad outcome.

    those of you who have been threatened by this douche should take appropriate steps. those of you who defend this moron should conduct an intervention, because, sooner or later, he’s gonna let his bull dog mouth and keyboard write a check his puppy dog ass can’t cover, with someone who will demand payment, in one form or another.

    /$0.02 (before taxes)

    redc1c4 (fb8750)

  49. Imagine a red-headed, red-bearded father of a red-headed daughter

    Am I a bad person for initially reading that as

    Imagine a red-headed, red-bearded father of a red-headed, red-bearded daughter

    :)

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  50. SteveG, of course, you are speaking tongue in cheek, but I define American as someone willing to fight to defend our country, if the need arises. If they aren’t willing to do that, I prefer people call themselves anything but american, for honesty’s sake.

    Say that in a high school social studies class and you’ll probably be lucky not to be disciplined.

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  51. Yes, Scott, you’re a bad person. As someone you formerly knew said, my daughter’s not allowed to grow a beard. And you’re a bad person to rub it in like that.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  52. I certainly don’t claim to know the mind of Jeff G. but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he throws out those bombs simply to infuriate folks he is disagreeing with so he can sit back and laugh at the reaction. The guy is a duelist with language afterall, he knows the effects words have and you can bet the effect is calculated.

    Black (e49dbe)

  53. Possessed by Deb Frisch? Somehow the crazy passed from her to him? Like one of those Japanese ghost movies.

    Mitch (e40959)

  54. i don’t know, threats of violence over the internet are about as believable as representations as to size.

    And its a stupid argument anyway. we are not cavemen and might doesn’t make right. reason does.

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  55. When it comes to guys who routinely talk about kicking someone’s butt, they usually fall into one of two categories: guys who actually have been scrappers, at least when they were younger, or guys who wish that they could have been, and are talking in a neighborhood far enough away from where they grew up that they think they can get away with it.

    Into which category Mr Goldstein falls, I do not know.

    The weakling Dana (3e4784)

  56. Dana

    I disagree with you. So i am going to beat you up!

    /sarcasm

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  57. A.W. — I find myself to be in great fear due to your remark. You will be hearing from my attorney, nk, concerning the emotional damages you have inflicted upon me.

    The scaredy-cat Dana (3e4784)

  58. Scott, the call is yours, but red in #48 is right. Most likely Goldilocks’s threats are nothing more than the huff and puff of a little girl pretending to be big and bad.

    A good general rule is to avoid physical conflict when you can, but if you’re in a fight, win it.

    ropelight (51072e)

  59. Well, not necessarilly, cement contractor Dana. For an extra $500.00 I can give A.W.’s name and address to some of my clients and he will not be hearing from me, or you, or anyone else, again.

    I’m kidding, I’m kidding! Honest! I have no idea how to contact thugs.

    nk (df76d4)

  60. nk

    I am not afraid of you. you will never guess that my real name is Andrew Wiggin!

    Ah, crap.

    (kidding, and now it is not, i just had orson scott card on the brain)

    A.W. (e7d72e)

  61. nk, I don’t want him silenced; I want to sue the bastard, and live in comfort for the rest of my life. I do not fear my fear, but embrace it, hoping that it will manifest itself in greatly increased cash flow.

    I can even whimper like a little girl, if you think it’ll help the case.

    The very fearful Dana, who still hopes to get rich off of it (3e4784)

  62. I have no idea how to contact thugs.

    Do you not talk to your neighbors?

    That’s kinda sad, dude…

    Scott Jacobs (d027b8)

  63. Click on my signature, Scott, if you want to see my neighbors.

    nk (df76d4)

  64. Dustin

    When you read the news or see pictures of our guys on the ground in combat in Afghanistan and Iraq, look for the hispanic surnames.
    Mexican-American people here in So Cal seem to love the Marine Corps and they kick ass… if you ask them though they’ll say they are Mexican.
    They tend to be real proud of their heritage and for the vast part, it is harmless.

    SteveG (909b57)

  65. #64, SteveG, I’ve long heard stories about exceptionally brave Hispanic soldiers from both WW-2 and Korean War vets. The men who fought beside them in Vietnam said the same thing. They’re good fighting men.

    ropelight (51072e)

  66. What’s clear is that in the comments sections of these posts we’re running into the same problems that have plagued the internet since Al Gore invented it: the ease and comfort of making nasty personal attacks from the safety of anonymity.

    I don’t know anyone worthy of the respect of other men who makes it his business to engage in that kind of exchange. Give yourself a good look in the mirror: would you really have the sack to get into somebody’s face and say in meatspace what you said online? Most people would say yes, but it doesn’t mean they’re full of it. Make jokes about Keyboard Kommandos and who’d beat whose ass, but Keyboard Konfrontation by proxy doesn’t burnish your own reputation really bright, either.

    Despite the true ugliness of real world violence, and how every fight could be your last (literally), I think it’d be nice if the consequences for online communication, in most cases, were similar to real-world communication.

    Dave D (2fb9ef)

  67. “It doesn’t mean they’re NOT full of it,” rather.

    Dave D (2fb9ef)

  68. SteveG,

    All due respect, but I don’t care what people think of the hispanic people in general. If an individual is willing to fight for this country, he deserves full respect as a citizen.

    Those individuals who see themselves as race first, American second, probably won’t defend the USA against all enemies. Their loyalty is divided. A lot of patriots really care about their heritage and honor it… while being Americans first. as you note, obviously there are many heroic Hispanic soldiers. Great example!

    But our culture no longer hold America up as special, and apparently that’s had an impact reflected in that statistic. Our schools make it seem like being American is practically shameful. Some hispanics, whites, Irish, blacks, whatever ridiculous group we put ourselves into, don’t honor this country or value being part of it as a shared people. And if we, as Americans, are not a people together, but see ourselves as a bunch of competing peoples in a country we like for selfish reasons, I think the American experiment fails. Individual liberty, rights, and respect are what we lose when we start crediting (or discrediting) people because they are Hispanic (or whatever). If I ask a man if he’s American, and he says “No, I’m a white.”, then he’s douchebag. Replace the word white with any other race.

    I also don’t ask for everyone to enlist right now. I was speaking of the willingness to defend. If my heritage-homelands invaded the USA, I would defend the USA. I am American, not American-hyphen-race-country. If Mexico and the USA got into a war (I realize how silly this is), some Hispanics (and some whites and some Jews and some Irish) would proudly defend the USA and some would not. That willingness in in our hearts, absent the actual war. Most Americans live their lives in peace without ever fighting a way, but willing to do what must be done if the unlikely came to pass. That’s patriotism. I wasn’t referring to our professional soldiers (who are clearly patriots).

    Dustin (44f8cb)

  69. Those are on-point arguments, aren’t they? He’s going to kick someone’s ass if they spend the $450 on the plane ticket for the privilege of having Jeff Goldstein try to kick their ass. That is a very tight argument, simple, clear, I wish everyone argued as clearly as that!

    But really it’s much easier to rage at someone and get hits in than try to convince them to spend money to come and fight you. Unless you’re Mike Tyson then you used to be able to do both.

    But really now I go for three days and Jeff Goldstein is still around? What is it about those Jews that makes ’em so damn interesting! Don’t take that the wrong way mein herrs. Or that. Really. Don’t!

    chaos (9c54c6)

  70. So the numchukin ass kickin voltaire of the net expounded that objecting to an oversexed douche bag pandering for laughs over the though of raping a 14 year old is somewhat overblown?

    sounds like one too many balsa wood sheets have been broken by someone’s head

    EricPWJohnson (9b7688)

  71. sounds like one too many balsa wood sheets have been broken by someone’s head

    you better watch out or next time it might be your head that is being imagined as really there instead of that big ole hunk a balsa wood

    and then how would you feel huh

    chaos (9c54c6)

  72. Awww now I’m being threatened by proxy?

    EricPWJohnson (9b7688)

  73. shorter happyfeet: Jeff Goldstein hasn’t threatened me, so I’m OK with him threatening others.

    Unfair? Explain why.

    Patterico (64318f)

  74. Awww now I’m being threatened by proxy?

    apparently youre much denser than balsa wood

    a shame

    Unfair? Explain why.

    you’re making the unfair assumption that it’s a bad idea to tell people over the internet you’re going to beat them up

    this is an unproven and quite possibly untrue assumption as anyone can tell by… looking at the internet

    chaos (9c54c6)

  75. I’ve made a decision. I’m going to start a blogsite with the explicit topic matter of over-age men having their way with under-age girls. It won’t be under-age pornography, which is illegal, because it will only be words. And it will only be fictional accounts of sexual activities of non-fictional characters. There won’t be any actual photographs involved, because the blogsite won’t be trafficking in kiddie-porn. I’ll just be telling fictionalized accounts of famous adult men and famous under-age girls getting it on. And my first fictional story will be of two nappy-haired girls teaching the football teams of Army and Navy a thing or two about “horizontal PT.” Cue Olivia Newton-John.

    Or we could agree that David Letterman is testing the kiddie-porn limits. And the likes of Letterman apologists like Jeffy G and, by extension, Jeffy G apologists, are also testing the kiddie-porn limits.

    John Hitchcock (3fd153)

  76. I’ve made a decision. I’m going to start a blogsite with the explicit topic matter of over-age men having their way with under-age girls. It won’t be under-age pornography, which is illegal, because it will only be words. And it will only be fictional accounts of sexual activities of non-fictional characters. There won’t be any actual photographs involved, because the blogsite won’t be trafficking in kiddie-porn. I’ll just be telling fictionalized accounts of famous adult men and famous under-age girls getting it on. And my first fictional story will be of two nappy-haired girls teaching the football teams of Army and Navy a thing or two about “horizontal PT.” Cue Olivia Newton-John.

    Or we could agree that David Letterman is testing the kiddie-porn limits. And the likes of Letterman apologists like Jeffy G and, by extension, Jeffy G apologists, are also testing the kiddie-porn limits.

    Yeah I get the idea you don’t know where “the limits” as far as that stuff goes are when it comes to the internet, “the limits” are way beyond what you described there.

    WHOSE RESPONSIBLE THIS go look up that meme and the story behind it.

    chaos (9c54c6)

  77. […] on Google — which doesn’t particularly worry because the source is now identified as a violence-threatening crank — Jeff Goldstein continues to defend David Letterman’s sex joke about Sarah […]

    Patterico's Pontifications » Goldstein’s Losing Argument Supporting Sex Jokes About Sarah Palin’s Child (e4ab32)

  78. When it comes down to it, Goldstein is so Johnny Tyler (Billy Bob Thorton) from Tombstone.

    “You gonna do somethin’? Or are you just gonna stand there and bleed? “

    Fritz (b04970)

  79. Goldstein’s at it again:

    Only problem is, I’m cool with it. I’ve dealt with four or five guys over the years who I wouldn’t mind giving the chance to repeat to my face what they’ve said about me or my family from behind their keyboards. Simple as that.

    Notice, the construction: “chance to repeat to my face”. Meaning, nothing ever happened, but Goldstein imagined that if it did, he’d come out of it the hero. He’s a clown with dreams of MMA glory.

    Goldstein’s a joke. It’s all bluster.

    Fritz (b04970)


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